The BNI UK Podcast takes you inside the real stories behind BNI success, told by the members who are doing it best, day in and day out across the UK. Hosted by Mike Holman, National Director of BNI UK, each episode gets back to what makes BNI different: relationships built on trust, generosity, and genuine connection.
Every conversation explores how the core values of Givers Gain®, Lifelong Learning, and Recognition translate into measurable business results. You’ll hear honest, inspiring insights from top-performing members who’ve mastered the craft of networking and referral marketing, not through gimmicks, but through consistency, credibility, and community.
You'll get practical strategies you can actually use: how to generate and pass high-value referrals, invite the right visitors, and make the most of everything BNI membership offers. Whether you’re already in BNI or considering joining, this series is designed to leave you motivated, clearer on what works, and ready to take your next step.
About BNI
BNI is the world’s largest referral networking organisation. Local chapters meet weekly with a proven agenda based on Givers Gain®, helping members build credibility, share qualified referrals and grow revenue. With training, 1-2-1s and clear metrics, BNI turns business networking into predictable results for SMEs and professionals. Visit as a guest to experience the format.
Episode 1 - Pure BNI: Structure, Values, and Getting ROI from Your Membership
Episode 1
Thursday, January 8, 2026 • Duration 25:51
In this episode of The BNI UK Podcast, Ed Nell turns the mic on national director Mike Holman to unpack what makes “pure BNI” work: a clear agenda, core values, and doing the basics beautifully so members see a real return on investment. Mike traces his 25-year journey from golf-club manager and BNI member to franchise owner and now national director, sharing how the system, structure and community fuel confidence, learning and growth for business.
Key Takeaways
Pure BNI = nothing added, nothing taken away. Chapters that run the standard agenda simply and well see the best results: focus, structure, and consistency are the differentiators in professional networking.
Set goals and measure ROI. Treat BNI as part of your marketing strategy: decide what “good” looks like for the first 12 months, then align your activity to hit those targets in lead generation, business development, and qualified leads.
VCP: visibility → credibility → profitability. Get to meetings early, network, and present well to build trust and open the door to warm introductions and strategic partnerships.
Do quality 1-2-1s using the GAINS profile. Structure your conversations around Goals, Accomplishments, Interests, Networks and Skills to find referral opportunities faster in b2b networking and local networking.
Dress for the referrals you want. Treat every chapter meeting like a client meeting; show up prepared and professional to inspire confidence when members introduce you.
Inviting visitors: think giving first. Start with people you can pass work to; generosity increases engagement and reciprocity in a referral-led community.
BNI is like a gym. Results come from consistent participation, meetings, 1-2-1s, and training, not from just joining.
Core values matter. “Givers Gain®,” traditions and innovation, and lifelong learning run from chapters to global leadership. This culture underpins effective community building.
Key Moments
“VCP: to be profitable, you need to be credible; to be credible, you must be visible.” (Show up early, present clearly, ask for specific introductions, create warm introductions.)
“Use the GAINS profile for better 1-2-1s.” (A practical framework for referral networking in b2b networking.)
“Invite by giving: think who you can pass business to first, people turn up when there’s potential work.”
About BNI
BNI is the world’s largest referral networking organisation. Local chapters meet weekly with a proven agenda based on Givers Gain®, helping members build credibility, share qualified referrals and grow revenue. With training, 1-2-1s and clear metrics, BNI turns business networking into predictable results for SMEs and professionals. Visit as a guest to experience the format.
Welcome to the BNI UK Podcast, the show for business networking, referral marketing and small business growth. If you’re an entrepreneur, SME owner, consultant or local business leader who wants more leads, better clients and stronger business relationships, you’re in the right place.
BNI (Business Network International) is the world’s largest business networking organisation, built on one simple idea: relationships create opportunities. In BNI chapters across the UK, members meet regularly, build trust, and help one another grow through structured introductions and qualified business referrals. The philosophy is Givers Gain®: when you actively give, support and connect others, you earn credibility, and that credibility turns into measurable success.
Hosted by Mike Holman, National Director of BNI UK, this series goes behind the scenes of what makes networking actually work. Each episode features conversations with top-performing BNI UK members sharing real success stories, practical networking tips, and the habits that drive consistent referral generation. You’ll learn how to ask for referrals without feeling pushy, how to pass high-value referrals that build your reputation, and how to create memorable weekly presentations and 1-2-1 meetings that lead to genuine opportunities.
We’ll explore the core values that power BNI: Givers Gain®, Lifelong Learning and Recognition. Expect clear, actionable advice on lead generation through networking, building strategic partnerships, improving your business development skills, and turning a contact into a long-term customer. You’ll also hear how members invite visitors, grow their chapters, use training and accountability, and maximise the full range of BNI membership benefits.
Whether you’re new to networking, returning to in-person meetings, or searching “” or “”, this podcast will help you build a network you can rely on. If you’re considering joining BNI, you’ll get a straight-talking overview of how BNI works, what happens in a chapter meeting, and why trust, consistency and giving first are the fastest route to sustainable .
Episode 2 - From “No” to Opportunity: Mastering Visitor Inviting with Confidence and Consistency
Episode 2
Thursday, January 22, 2026 • Duration 33:49
In this episode of The BNI UK Podcast, Ed Nell and National Director Mike Holman are joined by Birmingham Area Director Dawn Adlam, who supports over 200 members across the region. Dawn shares how she went from being crushed by her first “no” to confidently inviting visitors for 17+ years, using a simple, repeatable system that brings a steady flow of guests and tens of thousands of pounds in business into BNI chapters.
Key Takeaways
Inviting is a mindset, not a mystery. If you tell yourself that inviting visitors is hard, it will be. If you decide it’s easy and treat every “no” as one step closer to a “yes”, it becomes just another positive habit in your business rather than something to fear.
Visitors spend money and raise everyone’s game. Chapters with visitors in the room see more energy, better 60-second presentations, stronger leadership performance, and more business. Even visitors who never join can still spend thousands with members and receive referrals themselves.
Treat inviting as prospecting, with a simple system. Dawn works in small, consistent blocks: five invites a day (around 100 a month), mainly via LinkedIn and Google Maps. She searches by profession and location, sends a personalised invite, and always follows up because clicking “connect” without follow-up is wasted effort.
Make the visitor experience personal from first contact to follow-up. Give clear times, dates and costs, offer two possible meeting dates, and arrange a personal call the day before. Let them know who will meet them at the reception and what to expect, as many visitors feel nervous walking into a room where they don’t know anyone.
Handle objections and keep good contacts warm. “Too busy” often means “not a priority yet”. Offer later starts, online or hybrid options, ask permission to follow up in six months, and, where appropriate, ask if they know someone else who might benefit. A polite “no” today can still become a great visitor tomorrow.
Key Moments
Episode 3 - Member Traffic Lights Made Simple: Global Standards, Smart Data, and Better Results
Episode 3
Thursday, February 5, 2026 • Duration 27:23
In this episode of The BNI UK Podcast, Ed Nell and UK National Director Mike Holman welcome Tim Cook, Senior Director of Product Management at BNI Global and former UK National Director. Tim explains the origins of BNI’s member traffic lights, why they’re now being standardised across more than 70 countries, what’s changed in the new global model, and how members can use their scores as a practical coaching tool to get better results with less wasted effort.
Key Takeaways
Traffic lights are a coaching tool, not a stick. Tim is clear that member traffic lights were never designed to “beat people up”. They exist to highlight the activities that drive results, create friendly competition, and shine a light on members who are actively contributing, not to label people as “bad members”.
Global standardisation unlocks better tools for members. Over time, different countries created their own versions of traffic lights. The new global model brings the best of those together, backed by data analysis, so BNI can build better systems, including app features that will eventually give members tailored prompts on where to focus.
The new system splits points into two broad areas:
Participation & engagement (c.40%) – attendance, 1-2-1s and CEUs: the basics you must do to build relationships and skills.
Value-add (c.60%) – referrals, Thank You for Closed Business, visitors and sponsorship: the activities that actually generate business and grow the chapter.
Thank You for Closed Business and sponsoring new members each carry a relatively small weighting, because you can’t fully control whether business converts or an application is accepted. The emphasis is on consistent, controllable behaviours: showing up, meeting people, learning, inviting and passing referrals.
Visitors now count across chapters and sponsorship is recognised. Members can now earn visitor points when guests attend other chapters, encouraging cross-chapter support, especially where someone’s own category is locked out locally.
Episode 4 - From First-Time Networker to Top Performer: Confidence, Clarity, and Givers Gain®
Episode 4
Thursday, February 19, 2026 • Duration 20:08
In this episode of The BNI UK Podcast, Ed Nell and national director Mike Holman welcome Jon Zink (Godiva BNI, Coventry), who shares how he went from never having done business networking to generating over £2.1m in revenue and passing nearly £3m in four years, placing him consistently in the UK’s top four BNI members. He credits BNI’s structure, Givers Gain®, and a disciplined approach to referral networking for transforming his confidence and results.
Key Takeaways
Lead with giving. Jon flipped a direct-sales mindset into Givers Gain: learn about others first, help them, and the reciprocity follows, fuel for warm introductions, qualified leads, and long-term strategic partnerships in professional networking.
Treat your chapter like a sales team. Be specific in your weekly ask, who, why, and how to introduce so members can spot opportunities; clarity beats “anyone” every time for lead generation and business development.
It’s not just a 90-minute meeting. Results come from consistent activity beyond the room: 1-2-1s, tagging on Facebook and linkedin networking, and inviting ideal visitors, especially strategic trades like agents and brokers.
Use training to grow confidence. BNI education (from 60-second skills to presentation training) helped Jon go from public-speaking anxiety to confidently presenting and launching groups.
Broaden your pipeline beyond the room. Jon scouts Facebook recommendation groups, recommends chapter specialists (e.g., mortgage brokers), and receives steady cross-referrals from lettings/estate agents, classic b2b networking and local networking in action.
Key Moments
“Pre-Covid I’d never even considered networking… I had a preconceived idea… early mornings only… It was probably the best thing I ever did for my business.” (On discovering BNI and the mindset shift into professional networking.)
“You can’t just turn up once a week and expect results… it’s not a 90-minute BNI.” (Consistency beyond networking events drives lead generation.)
Episode 5 - Nailing Your Weekly Presentation
Episode 5
Thursday, March 5, 2026 • Duration 20:07
In this episode of the BNI UK Podcast, Ed Nell and Mike Holman, National Director of BNI UK, break down one of the most important - and often underused - opportunities in BNI: the weekly presentation.
Mike shares practical, no-nonsense advice on how members can use their 30, 45 or 60 seconds more effectively by treating the room as a sales team, not an audience to pitch to. The conversation explores how clarity, repetition and specificity can dramatically improve the quality of referrals members receive.
Key Takeaways
Your chapter is your sales team.
Weekly presentations aren’t about describing what you do - they’re about giving your members the right information to sell for you.
Sell through the room, not to the room.
Pitching directly to visitors or members rarely works. The goal is to equip others to spot opportunities on your behalf.
Be specific about who you want to meet.
Saying “anyone” or “everyone” doesn’t help. Clear target clients or customer avatars trigger recognition and recall.
Create a clear client avatar.
Whether B2B or domestic, describing a real-world scenario helps members identify referrals more easily.
Repetition matters.
State your key targets slowly - and ideally twice - to give members time to register and write them down.
Focus on one core service.
Trying to promote everything you offer can dilute your message. Clarity builds confidence and credibility.
Benefits beat features.
Episode 6 - Building a National Network Through BNI: Trust, Scale, and Saying Yes
Episode 6
Thursday, March 19, 2026 • Duration 23:13
In this episode of The BNI UK Podcast, Ed Nell and National Director Mike Holman welcome Andrew Payne of UK Property Service SW Ltd and BNI Spirit in Devon. Andrew shares how, in less than a year, he has used BNI not just to generate direct business, but to build a trusted national contractor network that helps him service commercial properties and student accommodation across the UK. He explains how BNI Connect, leadership, visibility and relationship-building have enabled him to say “yes” to clients more often and grow with confidence.
Key Takeaways
Andrew joined BNI with a clear goal: to create a reliable network of trusted contractors across the country. For his business, the value is not only in direct referrals but in being able to quickly source dependable people to help fulfil client needs nationwide.
Trust makes speed possible.
Before BNI, finding contractors meant lengthy checks, references and onboarding. Through BNI, Andrew has been able to fast-track that process because the network already carries a level of trust and credibility, helping him respond to urgent client requests far more quickly.
BNI Connect can become a national business tool.
Andrew has used BNI Connect strategically to find members across the UK, including as far afield as Northern Ireland. Rather than limiting his focus to his local chapter, he has treated the wider BNI network as an extension of his business infrastructure.
Leadership in BNI strengthens leadership in business.
Serving as Vice President has helped Andrew identify weaknesses in his own organisation, improve preparation, and sharpen his leadership skills. He highlights how much of what is learned in BNI is transferable into day-to-day business.
Be present if you want people to trust you.
Andrew credits trust-building to regular visibility: weekly meetings, leadership involvement, member days, socials and ongoing conversations. His view is simple – if you are not building relationships, you are missing the real value of BNI.
Episode 7 - From Start-Up to Success: How BNI Helped Build a Thriving Gifting Business
Episode 7
Thursday, April 2, 2026 • Duration 25:19
In this episode of the BNI UK Podcast, host Ed Nell is joined by National Director Mike Holman and guest Emma Robson, Director of Stort Valley Gifting and member of BNI Success for Business in Harlow.
Emma shares her journey of launching a business during COVID after redundancy and how BNI played a pivotal role from day one - even securing her first customer before officially launching.
This episode is packed with practical insights on making BNI work effectively, from mastering one-to-ones and refining your weekly presentation to building long-term client relationships and maximising return on investment.
Key Takeaways
Start networking early.
You don’t need to wait until your business is established - BNI can generate opportunities and clients from the very beginning.
You get out what you put in.
Success in BNI comes from consistent effort: one-to-ones, subbing, optimising your profile and actively engaging with members.
Use real examples in your 60 seconds.
Talking about recent work and real clients helps others understand how to refer you more effectively.
One-to-ones drive real business.
Building relationships and truly understanding other members leads to stronger referrals - even when you’re not in the room.
Leverage your network for ideas.
BNI isn’t just for referrals - it’s a powerful sounding board for developing new products, services and business ideas.
Key Moments
“80–85% of our business comes from networking - much of that through BNI.”
Episode 8 - Accountability, Consistency & Personal Brand: Building a Network That Performs
Episode 8
Thursday, April 16, 2026 • Duration 24:27
In this episode of the BNI UK Podcast, host Ed Nell and National Director Mike Holman are joined by guest Rich Hayden, Managing Director of Made By Seven and a founding BNI member with over 22 years’ experience.
Rich shares his journey from ineffective, transactional networking to building a powerful, accountable network that has generated millions in business - not just locally, but globally. Packed with real-life storeys, practical advice and honest reflections, this episode highlights how small actions - done consistently - can lead to significant long-term success.
Key Takeaways
Networking without accountability doesn’t work.
Without structure, follow-up and consistency, networking becomes little more than a social activity rather than a driver of real business.
Consistency drives results.
Long-term success in BNI comes from sustained effort over time, not short bursts of activity.
Step into leadership roles.
Taking on responsibility within your chapter increases visibility, builds confidence and accelerates business growth.
Protect the experience for guests.
Creating a positive, high-energy environment helps convert visitors into members and strengthens the overall network.
Small actions create big outcomes.
Something as simple as offering a coffee, following up or making someone feel welcome can lead to significant long-term opportunities.
Key Moments
“Networking without accountability is merely a coffee club.”
“Your personal brand is what people say about you when you’re not there.”
Episode 9 - How to Deal with a Bad Referral
Episode 9
Thursday, April 30, 2026 • Duration 23:31
In this episode of the BNI UK Podcast, Ed Nell speaks with UK National Director Mike Holman about a challenge every BNI member will face at some point - receiving a bad referral. They explore what actually defines a “bad” referral and, more importantly, how to respond in a way that strengthens relationships rather than damages them.
Mike shares a refreshing perspective that shifts the focus away from blame and towards accountability, communication, and education. The episode is packed with practical advice on improving referral quality, refining your messaging, and turning frustrating situations into long-term opportunities for growth.
Key Takeaways
Take responsibility, don’t assign blame:
If you receive a bad referral, start by looking at how you may have miscommunicated what you’re looking for rather than assuming poor intent.
Education is the key to better referrals:
Your network can only refer effectively if they clearly understand your ideal client - vague messaging leads to vague referrals.
Refine your 60-second and one-to-ones:
If multiple people are giving poor referrals, it’s likely a messaging issue. Be specific, clear, and consistent in how you communicate your needs.
Always respond with professionalism:
Thank the person, apologise, and have a constructive conversation - ideally face-to-face or over the phone, not via email.
Every referral is an opportunity to improve:
Even poor referrals can highlight gaps in your process, whether that’s communication, follow-up, or your sales approach.
Best Moments
“A bad referral is anything that you don’t want.”
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You don’t need to be the loudest person in the room. BNI is networking for introverts and extroverts alike because it’s a proven system: learn how to network, build visibility, and develop a referral mindset over time. Members track results, celebrate wins, and recognise the people who help others succeed. From trades and property to professional services, health, finance and tech, the focus is the same: show up, add value, and grow together.
Hit play on this trailer to hear what to expect from the BNI UK Podcast.
About BNI
BNI is the world’s largest referral networking organisation. Local chapters meet weekly with a proven agenda based on Givers Gain®, helping members build credibility, share qualified referrals and grow revenue. With training, 1-2-1s and clear metrics, BNI turns business networking into predictable results for SMEs and professionals. Visit as a guest to experience the format.
“A ‘no’ is good because it gets you closer to a ‘yes’.” (On reframing rejection so you don’t stop inviting after the first knock-back.)
“I’m not inviting them to join, I want them to come along for the opportunity.” (Why shifting the focus to what’s in it for the visitor makes inviting feel natural.)
“You can’t say the wrong thing to the right person.” (Encouragement for members who worry about using the ‘perfect’ script.)
“If you have five power teams of eight, you’ve got a chapter of 35 members.” (How focusing on power teams and their gaps makes inviting more strategic and effective.)
About BNI
BNI is the world’s largest referral networking organisation. Local chapters meet weekly with a proven agenda based on Givers Gain®, helping members build credibility, share qualified referrals and grow revenue. With training, 1-2-1s and clear metrics, BNI turns business networking into predictable results for SMEs and professionals. Visit as a guest to experience the format.
Testimonials no longer score points but they still matter. Written testimonials have been removed from the global scoring because they weren’t tracked consistently worldwide.
Use the colours as a guide, not a judgement. Think in colour bands, not point totals:
Grey – you’re not yet engaging with the basics (or you’re brand new).
Red – you’re doing some foundations but struggling to turn effort into value; this is where support and mentoring help.
Amber – you’re contributing and should be seeing returns, with scope to refine.
Green – you’re highly engaged across the board and a role model for others.
Tim’s ideal is for members to get the best possible return on investment for the least amount of time, by concentrating on the activities the data shows actually move the needle, rather than doing “everything” for the sake of points.
Key Moments
“If you can’t do the basics, it’s very unlikely you’ll achieve the bigger contributions.” (Why attendance, 1-2-1s and education are the non-negotiable foundations of success in BNI.)
“My goal is for members to get the best return on investment for doing the least possible work.” (On focusing members on high-value activities rather than chasing points.)
“You don’t get into the green unless you’re doing a bit of everything, honestly.” (Tim’s view of green-band members as all-round contributors to their chapters.)
“It’d be great to have a 100-point club… it will only be the top one or two per cent who make it.” (On future global recognition for the very highest performers in the new system.)
About BNI
BNI is the world’s largest referral networking organisation. Local chapters meet weekly with a proven agenda based on Givers Gain®, helping members build credibility, share qualified referrals and grow revenue. With training, 1-2-1s and clear metrics, BNI turns business networking into predictable results for SMEs and professionals. Visit as a guest to experience the format.
“Imagine a one-minute brief to a 20-person sales team… ‘any sales will do’ won’t work.” (Be precise in your ask, who to meet and what to listen for.)
“Get there early, leave late… the business is created in the open networking at the start.” (Why the pre-meeting window matters at breakfast networking.)
About the Guest
Jon Zink is a BNI Director Consultant and Utility Warehouse partner, helping households and businesses simplify and reduce their utility costs. Based in Cofton Hackett, Birmingham, he supports clients with practical, straightforward advice across essential services, acting as a single point of contact for switching and ongoing support. Through his BNI role, Jon focuses on helping members grow profitability by expanding referral networks and building stronger relationships.
About BNI
BNI is the world’s largest referral networking organisation. Local chapters meet weekly with a proven agenda based on Givers Gain®, helping members build credibility, share qualified referrals and grow revenue. With training, 1-2-1s and clear metrics, BNI turns business networking into predictable results for SMEs and professionals. Visit as a guest to experience the format.
Members need to know why someone would want to speak to you - what they’ll be left with after you’ve helped them.
Key Moments
“You’re presenting to your sales team - not explaining your product.”
“If you don’t know who you want to speak to, how are your members supposed to?”
“Anybody, everybody, somebody creates nothing.”
“People remember what’s important to them - specificity triggers that.”
“You’re not competing with businesses in BNI, you’re competing to be remembered.”
About BNI
BNI is the world’s largest referral networking organisation. Local chapters meet weekly with a proven agenda based on Givers Gain®, helping members build credibility, share qualified referrals and grow revenue. With training, 1-2-1s and clear metrics, BNI turns business networking into predictable results for SMEs and professionals. Visit as a guest to experience the format.
Andrew’s approach is to be a “yes person”. When clients ask for something, he focuses on finding a solution rather than saying no. Because he knows the network is there to support him, he can confidently help clients solve problems beyond his in-house team’s direct capabilities.
A strong chapter vision drives momentum.
Andrew is ambitious not only for his own business but for his chapter. He wants BNI Spirit to become the biggest chapter in Devon and top the regional traffic lights, while also helping launch another chapter in the west of Devon as part of the legacy he wants to create in BNI.
Key Moments
“I knew that I could go straight onto the BNI Connect app… and I could fulfil those services within an hour.”
(On using the wider BNI network to respond quickly to client needs.)
“With BNI being BNI, it already has that trust value in it.”
(On why the network helped remove friction from sourcing reliable contractors.)
“I’m a yes person… no doesn’t enter my mind.”
(On his problem-solving mindset and how BNI supports it.)
“If you’re not building those relationships, I must admit, you may as well look at the Yellow Pages.”
(On the importance of conversations, trust and real relationship-building in referral networking.)
“I’d like to be the biggest chapter in Devon and I’d like to be top of the regional traffic lights.”
(On his vision for growing BNI Spirit and creating chapter-wide success.)
About BNI
BNI is the world’s largest referral networking organisation. Local chapters meet weekly with a proven agenda based on Givers Gain®, helping members build credibility, share qualified referrals and grow revenue. With training, 1-2-1s and clear metrics, BNI turns business networking into predictable results for SMEs and professionals. Visit as a guest to experience the format.
“That one-to-one led to 190 hampers - and I wasn’t even in the room.”
“Use your 60 seconds to talk about what you’ve actually done this week.”
“BNI didn’t just support our business - it helped shape it.”
About the guest
Emma Robson is the Director of Stort Valley Gifting, a business specialising in bespoke corporate gifting and hampers using locally sourced products. A member of BNI Success for Business in Harlow, Emma has built her business largely through networking, with a strong focus on relationships, creativity and customer experience.
BNI is the world’s largest referral networking organisation. Local chapters meet weekly with a proven agenda based on Givers Gain®, helping members build credibility, share qualified referrals and grow revenue. With training, 1-2-1s and clear metrics, BNI turns business networking into predictable results for SMEs and professionals. Visit as a guest to experience the format.
“If you’re going to be in the room, be the most positive person there.”
About the guest
Rich Hayden is the Managing Director of Made By Seven and a founding member of BNI Enterprise in Ilkley. With over two decades in BNI, Rich has generated millions in business for fellow members and built global connections through the organisation.
Known for his energy, consistency and commitment to personal development, Rich is a strong advocate for accountability-led networking and building a powerful personal brand.
About BNI
BNI is the world’s largest referral networking organisation. Local chapters meet weekly with a proven agenda based on Givers Gain®, helping members build credibility, share qualified referrals and grow revenue. With training, 1-2-1s and clear metrics, BNI turns business networking into predictable results for SMEs and professionals. Visit as a guest to experience the format.
“If you don’t deal with a bad referral, you deserve the next one.”
“You’re asking people to shop blind if you’re not specific.”
“Don’t be the person talking about others behind their back.”
About BNI
BNI is the world’s largest referral networking organisation. Local chapters meet weekly with a proven agenda based on Givers Gain®, helping members build credibility, share qualified referrals and grow revenue. With training, 1-2-1s and clear metrics, BNI turns business networking into predictable results for SMEs and professionals. Visit as a guest to experience the format.
