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Explore every episode of the podcast The Biblical Mind

Dive into the complete episode list for The Biblical Mind. Each episode is cataloged with detailed descriptions, making it easy to find and explore specific topics. Keep track of all episodes from your favorite podcast and never miss a moment of insightful content.

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TitlePub. DateDuration
Why Does Church Matter? Learning from Jazz (Mark Glanville)24 Apr 202400:38:51

Quotes from this episode: "With the Bible in our hands, it's time to improvise church again and to see what the spirit is calling us to and how the spirit is opening wide our imagination for what the church can be today."

"We're doing a bit like what jazz musicians do. We immerse in the biblical story and we improvise on that biblical story, the Bible in our hand."

"Church is a conversation. Communities that are able to have conversations is really important. We can talk about anything. We can talk about the sermon together. We can talk about pressing issues facing our community, facing our neighborhood that we can get involved with."

In this episode:

— Introduction and Setting the Stage

— Conceptual Hurdles and the Need for Fresh Imagination

— Improvising on the Tradition: Learning from the Biblical Story

— Being Rooted in the Neighborhood: Leadership and the Role of Every Member

— The Challenges of Size: Can Large Churches Safely Improvise?

— Local Aesthetics and the Physical Space of Worship

When No One Reads Books Anymore02 Mar 202400:54:11

Byron Borger, owner of Hearts and Minds Bookstore speaks with Dru Johnson about literacy, theology, and the need for bookstores to cultivate the Christian imagination. 

AI Generated Takeaways

—The decline in reading and literacy rates among Americans is a concern, particularly among younger generations. —Books play a crucial role in personal growth and Christian discipleship, expanding one's understanding of the world and deepening their faith. —The power of books to inspire imagination and critical thinking is essential for engaging with complex texts, including the Bible. —Wise book recommendations that consider individual interests and readiness are important for fostering a love of reading. —Christian publishing has seen trends towards ecumenical reading, contemplative spirituality, and a commitment to social justice. Christian books should go beyond self-help and focus on worldview formation and the lordship of Christ over the life of the mind. —Christian bookstores should offer diverse book categories to cater to different interests and needs. —The rise of online marketing and the influence of Amazon have changed the publishing industry, with authors now expected to promote their own books. —Supporting local bookstores is important to maintain a human connection and receive personalized recommendations. —Physical spaces like bookstores and libraries provide opportunities for serendipitous discoveries and foster lifelong learning. —Lifelong learning is a distinctively Christian act that can be seen as an act of worship and a way to practice the presence of God.

Is ’Systemic Injustice’ Biblical? (Michael Rhodes)09 Jun 202300:46:55

Terms like "systemic sin" or "structural injustice" immediately make many people think of contemporary ideologies that they either strongly embrace or strongly oppose, such as socialism or the much-discussed (but poorly understood) critical race theory. These charged terms are often employed in vague or unhelpful ways.

The Bible has many examples of sin and injustice that are not purely individual—of evil that is bigger than the sum of the evildoers, and iniquity that reverberates through generations. How can we think more clearly and biblically about the nature of evil and injustice? Sin is many things in Scripture: an action, an identity, an agent or power, and the brokenness of structures and systems. People err when they don't grasp the Bible's full, complex picture of sin.

Michael Rhodes (PhD, Trinity College Bristol/University of Aberdeen) is a Lecturer in Old Testament at Carey Baptist College. He is an ordained minister in the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, author of Formative Feasting: Practices and Virtue Ethics in the Deuteronomic Tithe Meal and Corinthian Lord’s Supper (2022), and co-author of Practicing the King’s Economy: Honoring Jesus in How We Work, Earn, Spend, Save, and Give.

Show notes:

  • 00:26 Unjust kings don't act alone; the state is more than the sum of its parts
  • 06:46 The positive side: people were created to be mediators of God's blessing
  • 12:34 English hides the second-person plural
  • 14:32 The structures of society create incentives and disincentives for behaviors
  • 15:38 Intergenerational sin in Scripture
  • 18:14 People's inconsistent resistance to the idea of systemic injustice and sin
  • 22:49 What is sin? It's both individual and communal, personal and systemic
  • 31:10 Is this leaning toward socialism or critical race theory?
  • 41:06 Cornel West for president?
  • 41:56 Exercising power faithfully in different kinds political, economic, and cultural contexts
  • 43:48 Paradigmatic depictions of God's kingdom should be announced and emulated in the church

Show notes by Celina Durgin

Technology Isn’t a Neutral Tool (Jason Thacker)05 Jun 202300:39:11

From social media, to the printing press, to artificial intelligence, to the pencil, technologies have often been regarded as things that can't be good or bad apart from how people choose to use them. Jason Thacker doesn't think any technology is merely a neutral tool, because as people use technology to shape the world, it also shapes them and their culture.

Jason Thacker serves as an assistant professor of philosophy and ethics at Boyce College in Louisville, KY. He also is a research fellow in Christian ethics and director of the research institute at The Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention. He is the author of several books including Following Jesus in the Digital Age and The Age of AI: Artificial Intelligence and the Future of Humanity

He is a graduate of The University of Tennessee in Knoxville, where he earned a Bachelor of Arts in Communication Studies. He also holds a Master of Divinity from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, where he is currently a PhD candidate in ethics, public theology, and philosophy. 

Show notes: 

  • 00:26 What is technology?
  • 04:25 Jacques Ellul on "technique" and how technology forms us
  • 08:19 Two views of technology: instrumentalist and deterministic
  • 16:05 Optimism, pessimism, and realism about technology
  • 22:27 Some tools don't have good uses
  • 28:23 A biblical theology of technology?
  • 31:54 Technology and the vulnerable

Show notes by Celina Durgin

ICYMI: How ’Christianese’ Is Like Corporate Jargon (Valerie Hobbs)05 May 202300:33:15

This episode was originally published in May of 2021. We thought it was worth a reissue for our newer listeners. A new episode is coming next week.

Why do we say "come to Jesus"? This Christianese phrase doesn't just show up in church—it shows up in offices, homes, and schools around America, where we speak of "come-to-Jesus moments." What about words like "community" or "intentional"? Do we even know what those words mean? Unless we attend to our words and try to express our thoughts more carefully, our religious language can end up thin, impotent, and laden with clichés.

In this episode, Dru Johnson talks to Dr. Valerie Hobbs, a Senior Lecturer and linguist at the University of Sheffield. Dr. Hobbs specializes in the construction, use, and progression of religious language in contemporary discourse. They discuss the definitions and origins of religious language and Christianese, and how they can be distinguished from simple "in-group" or technical language. Then, they consider how our most powerful (or just persistent) ideas about death, God, and spirituality find their way out of the church and into corporate discourse, or vice-versa. They conclude with remarks on how to think about prayer, apologizing, and even the idea of racial reconciliation, to help us choose better words and think more deeply.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Defining “religious language” and "Christianese"
  • 2:18 How religious language is constructed
  • 4:26 The difference with in-group language
  • 6:37 Religious language in the secular world
  • 9:27 Corporate discourse and our values
  • 13:25 Where we get our Christianese clichés 
  • 19:09 Learning how to express our experiences
  • 23:43 Becoming sensitive to the way we speak
  • 26:47 Apologizing
  • 29:30 The problem with terms like "racial reconciliation"

Learn more about Valerie Hobbs and her work.

Her most recent book, An Introduction to Religious Language

Show notes by Micah Long.

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

ICYMI: Jesus Shows That God and Humans Are a Good Match (Lucy Peppiatt)28 Apr 202300:32:52

This episode was originally published on May 5, 2021. We thought it was worth a reissue for our newer listeners.

"It was most fitting for God to come save the people he made in the first place," says Dr. Lucy Peppiatt, Principal at Westminster Theological Centre.

The early church loved to discuss the "fittingness of the Son to become human," because it implies that God has a passion for man. He purposed from the beginning of time that He would come to save us, as one of us, and that means that there is something about humans that is fitting to be united with God. And that is the gospel.

In this episode, Dr. Dru Johnson and Dr. Peppiatt talk all about Jesus of Nazareth: Who was he? Who did people think he was? Why did he teach and present himself indirectly rather than just revealing himself to man? Dru and Dr. Peppiatt address challenging questions about the hiddenness of God in Christ, the incarnation, the union of the divine and the human in the Son, and more. 

Show notes:

  • 1:55 Why didn’t Jesus reveal himself to man while he was on Earth?
  • 5:24 Athanasius of Alexandria on Jesus
  • 7:13 Wrestling in the church: Jesus intellectually reasoned with us
  • 15:40 Is there value to the struggle?
  • 19:50 Is there something human about God?
  • 24:37 Impoverished theology

Show notes by Serena Tuomi.

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

What the Image of God Is and Is Not (Carmen Imes)21 Apr 202300:43:22

You might have heard that being made in the image of God refers to human rationality, relationality, moral agency, or some combination of these qualities. Dr. Carmen Imes disagrees. 

She and Dru discuss what they think the author of Genesis was actually referring to with the phrase "image of God," in light of Carmen's latest book Being God's Image: Why Creation Still Matters (forthcoming in June, 2023). Along the way, they discuss artificial intelligence, the resurrection and renewal of creation, and why Eve should have been more assertive.

Carmen (PhD in Biblical Theology, Wheaton College) is Associate Professor of Old Testament at Biola University. She is also the author of Bearing God’s Name: Why Sinai Still Matters. Carmen is an active member of the Evangelical Theological Society, the Institute for Biblical Research, the Society of Biblical Literature, and the Canadian Society of Biblical Studies. Carmen keeps a blog called Chastened Institutions and releases weekly Torah Tuesday videos on her YouTube channel.

  • 00:25 Rediscovering the biblical doctrine of the Imago Dei
  • 08:47 "Male and female he created them"
  • 12:17 The importance of the body
  • 17:38 Eve wasn't too bossy—she wasn't assertive enough
  • 20:18 Artificial intelligence and ChatGPT
  • 28:08 Abdication of creation care and the renewal of the earth
  • 38:02 Implications for how we should treat people
 

Show notes by Celina Durgin

This episode's music was generated by artificial intelligence.

Understanding the Slaughter of the Canaanites in the Book of Joshua (Paul Hinlicky)07 Apr 202300:32:29

Herem warfare is the commandment to exterminate all survivors. The law of herem warfare appears in the Book of Joshua and contravenes the usual motivations for going to war in the ancient Near East. Armies in that context typically killed only males and took women, children, and possessions before turning the conquered nation into a subjugated satellite nation. The law of herem warfare, on the other hand, forbade enslavement and required that all be killed.

Dru and Paul R. Hinlicky discuss this topic and more within the Book of Joshua. Dr. Hinlicky wrote Joshua for the Brazos Theological Commentary on the Bible series.

Dr. Hinlicky (PhD, Union Theological Seminary, 1983) is an internationally known theologian who has published more than seventy articles and many books. He teaches theology at Roanoke College in Salem, Virginia. He is an authority on the theology of Martin Luther and how Luther's theology played out in history since the time of the Reformation. 

Show notes:

  • 00:26 Why don't we hear many sermons on the Book of Joshua?
  • 02:55 The context of "be strong and courageous"
  • 10:39 Herem warfare—does God command genocide?
  • 15:17 The plan of herem warfare fails
  • 25:32 The theological emphasis of the Book of Joshua

Show notes by Celina Durgin

Is It Time to Quit ’Quiet Time’? Discussing Our View (Dru Johnson & Celina Durgin)28 Mar 202300:28:05

Instead of interviewing a guest, TBM host Dru Johnson and editor Celina Durgin discussed an article they co-wrote for Christianity Today: "Is It Time to Quit 'Quiet Time'?"

Many people read their Bibles on their own, and some do so daily. When combined with communal study, some form of this practice is important for anyone wanting to become fluent in Scripture. However, private Bible-reading can go wrong. It can be fragmented, individualistic, uninformed, and essentially passive. It can be impotent or even deleterious for readers whose misunderstandings go uncorrected and who don't apply true biblical principles to life.

At its most distinctive, the "quiet time" ritual of private prayer, listening, and devotional Bible-reading is an artifact of Western culture from the last 150 years. Dru and Celina explored the history of this practice in an article in Christianity Today, published online and slated to appear in the April print edition.

They concluded that the form quiet time often takes is not conducive to Bible literacy and can actually compound misunderstanding over time. It can even be an empty ritual that Christians perform to feel pious while failing to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with their God.

If you're a regular listener, you can probably guess that Dru and Celina favor community-based solutions to this problem.

Dru hosts The Biblical Mind podcast, directs the Center for Hebraic Thought, and is an Associate Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at The King’s College in New York City.

Celina is the Editor of The Biblical Mind magazine and podcast. She was previously an editorial fellow at a political magazine in New York, and then, after graduate school, worked in the editorial department of a marketing company in downtown Boston. Some of her written work can be found in Christianity Today.

Show notes by Celina Durgin

Women in the Early Church (Nijay Gupta)24 Mar 202301:03:37

This episode was originally published by OnScript podcast. Thanks to the OnScript team for letting us share this episode with our listeners. Here are the OnScript show notes for this episode:

Episode: The book we’re talking about today is Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church with IVP Academic. In this episode, we explore the data about women in Scripture and antiquity including ideas such as women’s leadership is an exception that relies upon the norm of male leadership, persistent myths about women in the Roman empire, and the hotly contested passages in Paul. 

Guest: Dr. Nijay Gupta is Professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary. He has written over 21 books, including commentaries on Colossians, Thessalonians, and Philippians. He’s written 15 New Testament Words of Life: A New Testament Theology for Real Life (Zondervan), A Beginner’s Guide to New Testament Studies: Understanding Key Debates (Baker Academic), and Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church (IVP Academic), discussed in this episode. He has also written several books helping scholars research, write, and get a sense of the field of NT studies. These include The Writer: A Guide to Researching, Writing, and Publishing in Biblical Studies (Cascade) and Prepare, Succeed, Advance: A Guidebook for Getting a PhD in Biblical Studies and Beyond (2nd ed.; Cascade).

Trying to Master the Bible? Try Savoring It Instead (Andrew Abernethy)17 Mar 202300:37:13

Literature students who can analyze a passage from East of Eden with ease often flounder when trying to analyze a Bible passage. Why? 

Dr. Andrew Abernethy explains how people can overcome barriers to understanding Scripture by using skills they already have, and by seeking not just to understand, but also to savor.

Dru asks Dr. Abernethy, Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College in Illinois, about his new book Savoring Scripture: A Six-Step Guide to Studying the Bible.

Prior to joining the faculty at Wheaton, Dr. Abernethy was a Lecturer in Old Testament at Ridley College (Melbourne), where he benefited greatly from teaching and living with fellow Christians in a cross-cultural and post-Christian context. He has written numerous articles and is also the author of several other books: Eating in Isaiah (Brill, 2014); The Book of Isaiah and God’s Kingdom (IVP, 2016); God’s Messiah in the Old Testament (Baker, 2020); Discovering Isaiah (Eerdmans/SPCK, 2021).

Show notes:

  • 00:26 Savoring Scripture
  • 07:48 Do we need special knowledge to understand the Bible?
  • 14:54 The humility to overcome the fear of getting Scripture wrong
  • 21:15 Taking time to savor God 
  • 28:45 Applying existing skills to biblical interpretation

Show notes by Celina Durgin

Jazz, Justice, and the Gospel (William Edgar)10 Mar 202300:36:02

The rich and sad story of jazz has shaped both its sorrowful sounds and its joyful hope. William Edgar, the author of A Supreme Love: The Music of Jazz and the Hope of the Gospel, discusses the subtle and not-so-subtle ways the Bible has informed the movement and music of jazz throughout its history.

William (BA, Harvard University, MDiv, Westminster Theological Seminary, DTh, Université de Genève) is professor of apologetics at Westminster Theological Seminary, Philadelphia. He directs the gospel-jazz band Renewal, which features the legendary singer Ruth Naomi Floyd. He is also currently professeur associé at the Faculté Jean Calvin, Aix-en-Provence (France). He has published more than 20 books and numerous articles in French and in English. His most recent book is A Supreme Love: The Music of Jazz and the Hope of the Gospel (IVP Academic, 2022). He and his wife, Barbara, have two children and three grandchildren.

Show notes:

  • 00:25 What is jazz? Is it sinful?
  • 05:08 Joyful with an edge of suffering
  • 10:49 Punk rock, protest music, and intimidating jazz musicians
  • 15:08 Entertaining jazz, delighting audiences, and fighting racism
  • 21:20 Jazz in the trenches—gritty and ineffable
  • 27:12 Parallel between Hebrew poetry and some jazz forms

Show notes by Celina Durgin

 

Will AI Take Over the World (Adam Graber)23 Feb 202400:44:45

Appropriately: An AI generated summary of our conversation:

The conversation explores the influence of technology on humanity and the reciprocal relationship between the two. It discusses the impact of smartphones and identifies key technologies that have shaped the world. The balance between screen time and creativity is examined, along with the concerns and benefits of AI. The importance of foundational knowledge and skills is emphasized, as well as the need for critical evaluation of sources. The conversation also addresses the biases present in AI systems and the challenges of tracing causal links within them. The conversation explores the use of AI in data analysis and interpretation, particularly in the context of Bible study. It raises questions about the validity and limitations of using AI for interpretation and emphasizes the need for critical evaluation.

Takeaways

  • AI can analyze vast amounts of data and identify correlations that humans may not be able to perceive.
  • The use of AI for interpretation in Bible study raises questions about the validity of a statistical method of interpretation.
  • AI interpretation should be seen as one mode of interpretation among others, rather than a replacement for traditional methods.
  • The scholarly community needs to critically evaluate the use of AI for interpretation and develop educational programs to address its implications.

Chapters

01:31 The Influence of Technology on Humanity

03:26 Technology Shaping Our Experience

04:21 Examples of Technology

06:23 The Relationship Between Technology and Humanity

09:27 The Impact of Smartphones

10:48 Technologies that Have Changed the World

13:24 Balancing Screen Time and Creativity

16:09 The Concerns and Benefits of AI

19:52 The Role of AI in Creativity

25:09 The Importance of Foundational Knowledge and Skills

27:48 The Biases of AI Systems

31:34 The Human Element in AI Systems

36:26 The Need for Critical Evaluation of Sources

39:43 The Human Bias in AI Systems

40:26 The Concerns about Tracing Causal Links in AI

41:29 AI and Data Analysis

42:27 Statistical Method of Interpretation

43:57 Critically Evaluating AI Interpretation

Trusting Reality: ’Longing to Know’ Turns 20 (Esther Meek)03 Mar 202300:40:55

"Knowing is an activity that all of us are involved in, all of the time," writes Dr. Esther Meek in her book Longing to Know, which turns 20 this year. "Usually knowing happens without our taking great thought to the process. But sometimes we stop and think about what we're doing. When we stop and think, what we were doing without much thought becomes murky indeed."

Think of learning to ride a bike. After a period of assisted practice, something clicks. A person who initially couldn't balance on a bike can suddenly ride off on their own. The external process of learning to ride a bike—guidance from a parent or a friend, training wheels, brief intervals of unassisted pedaling—are all easily identifiable. But the personal transformation—from not knowing how to ride a bike to knowing how—is more mysterious.

Building on the thought of Michael Polanyi, Dr. Meek challenges conceptions of knowing that have reigned since the Enlightenment, which don't reflect the way the biblical authors appear to portray how we acquire knowledge. It turns out that, for instance, doing what YHWH commands "so that you may know" looks a lot like learning to ride a bike.

Esther Lightcap Meek (BA Cedarville College; MA Western Kentucky University; PhD Temple University) is Professor of Philosophy emeritus at Geneva College, in Western Pennsylvania. She is also Senior Scholar with The Seattle School for Theology and Psychology, a Fujimura Institute Scholar, an Associate Fellow with the Kirby Laing Center for Public Theology, and a member of the Polanyi Society.

Show notes:

  • 00:26 The bike-riding paradigm of knowing
  • 04:30 Modernism, postmodernism, and Longing to Know
  • 10:40 The nature of science, and "risky confidence"
  • 15:03 How Dr. Meek got into philosophy—"very odd questions"
  • 18:44 Making contact with reality
  • 27:54 Reality is person-like
  • 29:49 Christians allied with modernism
  • 31:20 The need for a stronger doctrine of creation—a metaphysics

Show notes by Celina Durgin

Old—and New—Testament Violence and the Shalom of God (Matthew J. Lynch)24 Feb 202300:40:55

Readers of the Book of Joshua (and many other parts of the Bible) are inevitably confronted with the poblem of violence in Scripture. Texts referring to the destruction of whole cities or the killing of men, women, and children can cause us to question whether God is truly loving and just.

In this episode, Dr. Matt Lynch discusses violence in Scripture from his new book Flood and Fury: Old Testament Violence and the Shalom of God. He considers the difficulties with approaching violence from a modern perspective, the ways of reading the different violent accounts presented in Scripture, and how literally we should take biblical rhetoric. Plus, hear why being so-called "New Testament Christians" doesn't really distance us from violence in the Bible.

Dr. Lynch is an Associate Professor of Old Testament at Regent College in Vancouver. His research looks at issue of violence and the idea of monotheism in the biblical texts. Prior to his work at Regent, Matt taught at Westminster Theological Centre, Nashotah House, and Grand Rapids Theological Seminary. In addition, he founded and co-hosts the OnScript podcast.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Approaching violence in the Bible
  • 3:50 Different cultural perspectives on violence
  • 5:46 Violence for modern and ancient readers
  • 10:25 Majority versus minority report
  • 15:58 Idolatry in ancient Israel
  • 18:53 Interpreting the Bible's rhetoric
  • 23:40 The archaeology of Jericho
  • 27:20 Christianity and violence
  • 30:07 Joshua's challenges
  • 34:14 Intermarriage
  • 38:55 The primacy of some parts of Scripture

Show notes by Micah Long

ICYMI: Don’t Skip the Poems (Michelle Knight)17 Feb 202300:30:29

This episode was originally published on October, 2020. We thought it was worth a reissue for our newer listeners.

The poetry in Scripture can be hard to understand. And, especially when it is embedded within a story, such as the Song of Deborah, we might be tempted to skip over it. It uses a lot of allusion and metaphor and is pregnant with imagery and historical detail. We would rather the author just "get to the point" and give us a bullet-point summary. However, to ignore the stylistic force of biblical poetry (or any biblical genre) is to miss out on some of the deep theological underpinnings of the text.

In this episode, Dr. Michelle Knight, Assistant Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, discusses biblical poetry and literary sensitivity to the genres of Scripture. She and Dr. Dru Johnson zoom in on the Song of Deborah in Judges and the violence it seems to celebrate, then expand to discuss Joshua and Judges more broadly. They cover biblical characterization, how the New Testament authors draw on motifs in Judges, and even compare Joshua to a Marvel movie. In the end, they aim to encourage us toward both theological understanding and literary prowess when we read the Bible.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Reading biblical poetry
  • 2:24 Dru squeezes his rubber ducky
  • 3:55 Violence in the Song of Deborah
  • 8:51 The purpose of poetic devices in conveying meaning
  • 12:42 Understanding the "rules" of poetry
  • 15:18 The style of Joshua versus that of Judges
  • 18:53 Joshua and Judges in the New Testament
  • 21:45 Are Samson and Gideon heroes?
  • 25:24 Understanding the character of Joshua

Read more about Michelle Knight.

Show notes by Micah Long.

The State of Jewish–Christian Relations (Pesach Wolicki)10 Feb 202300:34:49

Despite their shared foundations and concern for the Word of God, Christians and Jews rarely interact on the basis of faith in the modern world. Many Jewish communities, in response to centuries of antisemitism and persecution, have shielded themselves from Christians, while modern Christians often know very little about the Jewish faith.

Dru interviews Rabbi Pesach Wolicki about the state of relations between Christians and Jews. For Pesach, the Jewish faith centers on a universal mission to bless the whole world; as a result, his work focuses on sharing Judaism and Jewish readings of Scripture with Christians. They discuss thinkers from Maimonides to Luther, the way reading the Talmud can help Christians, and why tension still exists between Christians and Jews today. Plus, hear Pesach's critique of the popular worship song "Reckless Love."

Rabbi Pesach Wolicki is an Orthodox Rabbi whose work focuses on relations between Christians and Jews. Currently, he works as the Executive Director of the Center for Jewish–Christian Understanding and Cooperation. He has taught at churches, Christian colleges, and seminaries across North America, and writes regularly for various news outlets. He currently lives in Israel with his wife and eight children.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Jewish identity and its relation to Christianity
  • 3:12 A kingdom of priests
  • 5:45 Maimonides and the Messiah
  • 9:55 Reading Scripture with Christians
  • 14:48 Talmudic readings
  • 19:44 Wolicki's method for reading the Bible
  • 21:38 Historical perspective and current tension
  • 29:52 Reckless love?!?
  • 31:50 How Christians can start to understand Jews

Show notes by Micah Long

The Unwritten Word: Learning from High Orality-Reliant Cultures (Charles Madinger)03 Feb 202300:43:37

Western culture relies extensively on written text to communicate. But the majority of people across the world rely far less on reading than they do on speech, body language, story, images, and their other senses. Charles Madinger joins the podcast this week to explore the concept of orality—the multifaceted way in which people were created to communicate.

Though well-meaning pastors and missionaries may rely on three-point sermons and Bible translation projects, these efforts often miss the variety of ways that the active, living Word of God engages people's bodies and minds, in communities. Charles also examines Jesus' parables and the many ways God interacts with his people throughout Scripture, how McDonald's might do a better job communicating than most pastors, and whether Gen Z is escaping the low orality-reliance of Western culture.

Dr. Charles Madinger is the Founder and Director of the Institutes for Orality Strategies, a collective of organizations committed to evangelizing to oral communicators. In addition to his scholarly publications in the field of orality, he has worked in global ministry for thirty years. He also serves the 4.2.20 Foundation as the Vice President of the Center for Oral Scriptures.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Inner and outer speech
  • 5:00 How do we best communicate?
  • 7:39 Memory and multi-sensory communication
  • 13:55 High versus low orality-reliance
  • 16:40 Abstract versus concrete
  • 23:00 Communication in the Bible
  • 27:52 Carrying the Word of God in our bodies
  • 30:29 The Western mind
  • 36:03 The Gutenberg parenthesis
  • 39:00 Teaching like Jesus taught

Show notes by Micah Long

The First Christian Nation? Keeping Up with the Armenians (Heather Ohaneson)27 Jan 202300:28:08

Despite the rich history of Armenia as an ancient Christian community, many Christians know very little about the Armenian ethnicity, culture, nation, and faith. In this episode, Dru interviews Dr. Heather Ohaneson, pastor of Armenian Martyrs' Congregational Church, about Armenian history from the early days of the church until now, along with her experience as an evangelical Protestant Armenian pastor. They discuss the culture, language, and global migration of the Armenian people, and the aftermath of the Armenian genocide and recent conflicts on their nation. And yes, the Kardashians get a mention.

Dr. Heather Ohaneson is the pastor of Armenian Martyrs' Congregational Church in Havertown, Pennsylvania. She received her PhD in philosophy of religion from Columbia University, and taught at George Fox University and Azusa Pacific University. Currently, she is pursuing an MDiv at Princeton Theological Seminary and ordination in the United Church of Christ to continue to serve the Armenian Evangelical community.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 The first Christian nation in history
  • 4:44 The current conflict in Armenia
  • 5:55 The Armenian language and dialects
  • 6:49 The Armenian genocide
  • 9:20 Modern Armenians
  • 14:04 Protestant and evangelical churches
  • 16:11 The gifts of Armenian Christianity
  • 20:00 Heather Ohaneson's background
  • 23:00 The spread of Armenian evangelical churches

Show notes by Micah Long

Jewish Identity, Deconstruction, and Misusing the Bible (Marty Solomon)20 Jan 202300:34:44

How do we approach the Bible? Do we see it merely as a "perfect rulebook"? A piece of literature to be picked apart? Or do we see it as something that threatens to transform us and upend our preconceptions, helping us live in accordance with God and His activity? In this episode, Dru interviews Marty Solomon, cohost, creator, and Executive Producer of The BEMA Podcast and President of Impact Campus Ministries, about his approach to reading and teaching the Bible. They consider different approaches to Scripture, from fundamentalism to textual criticism to deconstruction, and explore the ways each might shed more light on the text. They also explore how understanding Jewish identity (both ancient and modern) can present both opportunities and pitfalls for understanding Scripture.

Marty Solomon is an author, teacher, and resource creator who aims to help people read the Bible in its historical and Jewish context. Along with his work at The BEMA Podcast and Impact Campus Ministries, he has written a book called Asking Better Questions of the Bible: A Guide for the Wounded, Wary, and Longing for More (releasing February 7, 2023). He aims to bring the best of Christian history, modern scholarship, and discipleship to the church, especially college students, to help them love God and serve his kingdom.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Inerrancy versus inspiration
  • 2:13 Asking the Bible hard questions
  • 5:09 Torah obedience and Jewish identity
  • 10:02 Modern Jewish Messianism
  • 12:09 Eastern versus Western thought
  • 14:30 Deconstruction and college ministry
  • 17:49 Passion for investigating Scripture
  • 21:33 Accountability and academia
  • 28:00 How should we approach the Bible?
  • 31:45 What gives Marty hope

Show notes by Micah Long.

Reading the Bible Like an Adult (Avital Hazony Levi)13 Jan 202300:46:53

How do we read the Bible like adults? For many people who grew up in communities of faith, the Bible stories have been a part of their lives for as long as they can remember. But it's often not until later in life that the richer meanings of the stories come alive, misconceptions are corrected, and the voices of the biblical authors become clearer—even as we relinquish naive certainties and the expectation of a black and white world.

In this episode, Dru interviews Dr. Avital Hazony Levi, instructor in Jewish philosophy and Bible at Midreshet Nishmat. They discuss everything from the nitty-gritty vocabulary of the story of Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar to the ways in which Western philosophical concepts threaten to drown out the voices of the biblical authors to the psychology of female characters in the Hebrew Bible. Along the way, they examine core biblical concepts such as loyalty, trust, responsibility, and generational sin.

Currently a postdoctoral fellow at Tel Aviv University, Avital has a rich background in both the Hebrew Bible and philosophy, and her work spans from moral epistemology to the nature of loyalty and worship. She has taught philosophy, Jewish thought, and Tanakh at Nishmat, TVA, and the Orthodox Union college summer program.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Reading the Bible like an adult
  • 2:38 Abraham's loyalty
  • 5:10 Why does Sarah give Hagar to Abraham?
  • 11:33 Bitterness and faithlessness
  • 17:00 Teaching the Bible in Hebrew
  • 21:55 Free will and generational punishment
  • 27:24 God's omniscience
  • 30:19 Philosophical questions in the Bible
  • 35:39 Responsibility and choice
  • 40:49 The best thing about teaching

Show notes by Micah Long

Raising Chickens, Reading Scripture, and Running Governments, Reformed-Style (Jessica Joustra)06 Jan 202300:50:31

What does it mean for Christ to reign over every sphere of life? Many Christians relegate faith to "spiritual" activities, such as reading the Bible, going to church, and praying. However, the Christian tradition—and especially the Reformed tradition—can guide Christians in everything from personal ethics to politics to raising chickens.

In this episode, Dru talks with Jessica Joustra, Assistant Professor of Religion and Theology at Redeemer University, about the ideas of Reformed thinkers Abraham Kuyper and Herman Bavinck (as well as the ways that they draw on John Calvin). As Protestants, these men wanted to capture a faithful, traditional, and thorough way of reading the Bible; as 19th-century men, they strove to live as Christians in the modern world, both through public theology and through active participation in politics. The Reformed tradition offers rich ways of thinking about law, vocation, systemic sin, economics, and even America's contemporary political structures, all while remaining rooted in Scripture's conceptual world.

Jessica Joustra is an Assistant Professor of Religion and Theology at Redeemer University and Associate Researcher at the Neo-Calvinist Research Institute of the Theologische Universiteit Kampen. She teaches in the areas of Reformed theology and ethics, and has contributed to several works centered around Bavinck and Kuyper. Most recently, she and her husband (Robert Joustra) released Calvinism for a Secular Age: A Twenty-First Century Reading of Abraham Kuyper’s Stone Lectures.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Abraham Kuyper and Herman Bavinck
  • 3:20 Radical shaping of vocation
  • 7:46 God's sovereignty in ethics and politics
  • 11:45 The Reformed tradition and biblical interpretation
  • 14:09 Reformed and "small-c catholic"
  • 17:26 Individual, social, and systemic ethics and sin
  • 26:10 Modernism and politics
  • 31:56 Principled pluralism
  • 37:22 Christian nationalism and the Reformed tradition
  • 43:00 Antithesis and common grace

Show notes by Micah Long

Most Popular Episode of 2022: ’Going to Heaven’ vs. Resurrection, the New Heavens, and the New Earth (J. Richard Middleton)23 Dec 202200:32:19

In case you missed it, this was our most popular episode of 2022. We hope this conversation encourages Christians with the biblical hope of the resurrection and the age to come.

What happens to you when you die? Many Christians picture eternal life as spending time in an ethereal heaven with God, either immediately after death as a disembodied spirit or after a "rapture" of Christians. Books and films, made by and for Christians, have promoted this idea of the afterlife.

Dr. J. Richard Middleton wants to challenge this particular view of the Christian afterlife. What happens immediately after we die does not much matter to the biblical authors; they concern themselves with proclaiming the hope of the eventual resurrection and preaching the Kingdom of God. In this episode, he discusses common words in our theological vernacular—spirit, soul, resurrection, hell, heaven, etc.—and challenges us to rethink them through a biblical lens. The story of the Bible is not the story of what happens between death and resurrection, but the story of the "redemption of the world."

Dr. Middleton is Professor of Biblical Worldview and Exegesis at Roberts Wesleyan College. He specializes in the Christian worldview, Christianity and postmodernism, Old Testament Theology, and eschatology. His most recent book is A New Heaven and a New Earth: Reclaiming Biblical Eschatology.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Introductions, N.T. Wright, and the redemption of the world
  • 3:48 Reactions to debunking the rapture
  • 4:57 "What happens to you when you die?"
  • 7:59 God's glory entering the world
  • 10:45 Spiritual versus physical
  • 13:24 The hope of the resurrection
  • 16:42 Believing you go to heaven when you die
  • 18:32 Purgatory, limbo, and the grave
  • 21:03 Resuscitation versus resurrection
  • 25:20 The resurrection, final judgment, and hell

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Scripture, Sexuality, and Podcasting (Preston Sprinkle)29 Nov 202300:59:35

In the first half of this episode, Dru Johnson talks with Preston Sprinkle about his journeys into the LGBTQ+ communities, theologies, and conversations and the psychological research in that field. He also discusses his convictions about biblical views on sexuality that emerged from this quest.

In the second half of this episode, Preston and Dru talk about the theology (and ecclesiology) of podcasting itself. Who should and should not be doing it, and what cautions should they be employing.

Audio editing by Nate Spanos.

Paying Attention to the People, Places, and Things in the Bible (Kat Armstrong)16 Dec 202200:37:33

Christians know that we should read the Bible. But often, the "should" eclipses the "why"—the fact that Scripture presents a unified, powerful, mysterious story written by God for the benefit of his people.

In this episode, Dru interviews Kat Armstrong, a Bible teacher, speaker, and author who aims to cultivate joyful, imaginative reading of Scripture. The Bible contains rich networks of imagery, but we must read carefully to notice them. Kat's new Bible study series, Storyline Bible Series, takes a deep dive into some of the recurring motifs in Scripture, from mountains and valleys to sticks and stones. Additionally, Kat discusses how her son helps her pay closer attention to the Bible, why the Bible isn't an instruction manual, and how Scripture eschews dividing its characters into "good guys" and "bad guys."

Kat Armstrong is a Bible teacher from Dallas who is passionate about helping people develop holy curiosity and delve more deeply into the story of the Bible. Her work includes speaking at events and conferences and writing books and Bible studies. You can find out more about her at her website.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 A message from Dru Johnson
  • 2:05 Scripture as one unified story
  • 3:34 How to read the details of Scripture
  • 7:14 Getting "fresh eyes"
  • 8:31 Enthusiasm for the Bible
  • 12:05 Kat's experience at Dallas Seminary
  • 15:18 Appreciating the artistic brilliance of Scripture
  • 21:00 Tracking the connections in Scripture
  • 24:12 Is biblical imagery just coincidental?
  • 28:28 Mountains in the biblical narrative
  • 31:48 Kat Armstrong's upcoming Storyline Bible Studies

Show notes by Micah Long

There Is No West without the Near East (Robert Nicholson)09 Dec 202200:39:00

The Near East carries a strange set of connotations in the modern West. On the one hand, it is the origin of our most significant ethical traditions. On the other, it is an area full of political tensions and years of violent conflict. In this episode, Robert Nicholson (Founder and President of Philos Project and CHT Senior Fellow) helps Christians evaluate their attitudes toward the Near East and its importance for Christian history and the faith today. From the perception of Israel, to the various groups of Muslims in the region, to the frequently-persecuted Christian communities, the Near East presents a complicated combination of religious, ethnic, and political identities. Christians have opportunities to pursue peace by advocating pluralistic respect, recognizing the positive developments in the region, and praying.

Robert Nicholson is the Founder and President of Philos Project, an organization that seeks to promote positive Christian engagement in the Near East. He holds an MA in Middle Eastern history and a JD from Syracuse history, and he also co-founded Passages Israel, serves on the board of In Defense of Christians, and teaches at The King's College. His writings have appeared in major publications including The Wall Street Journal and First Things, and he also hosts the podcast The Deep Map.

Show notes:

  • 2:00 Difficulties engaging with the Near East
  • 4:20 Avoiding negative associations
  • 7:21 The Hebraic origins of the modern world
  • 11:33 Power in the biblical tradition
  • 15:32 "Christian engagement in the Near East"
  • 19:12 Peace and pluralism
  • 24:35 Ethnic and religious tensions
  • 29:13 Jewish as an ethnic, religious, and political identity
  • 32:48 Positive historical trends

For more about one practical way to get involved with the work of Philos Project, check out their 21 Martyrs Pilgrimage Campaign, a fundraising effort to bring the families of the 21 Christian Copts killed in 2015 on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem.

Show notes by Micah Long

What If We Took God’s Instruction Seriously? (Ryan O’Dowd)02 Dec 202200:35:50

Is it biblical to "follow your passion"? How do you know if the law is written on your heart? In this week's episode, Dru interviews CHT Fellow Ryan O'Dowd on engaging deeply with the Bible, living in accordance with the Torah's instruction, and ministering as the church. Scripture provides a host of instructions about how to live: everything from the proper view of our passions to helping the marginalized to saving money. But too often, we don't even know what it says—or we just don't take it seriously. As we mirror the practices described in Deuteronomy, like constant public engagement with Scripture, communal feasting, and building flourishing economic communities, we will find that the Bible will open up itself to our understanding.

 

Rev. Ryan P. O'Dowd is a Senior Fellow at Chesterton House at Cornell University, the pastor at Bread of Life Anglican Church, and an Academic Fellow at CHT. His research interests include wisdom literature and the epistemology of the Torah. He has written for The Biblical Mind about virtual worship and the Lord's Supper and the book of Proverbs as instruction in virtue.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Confronted by Scripture
  • 2:35 Following your passion
  • 6:07 Jeremiah, Job, and suffering
  • 8:28 Becoming immersed in Scripture
  • 11:02 Engaging the Bible as a community
  • 14:04 Constantly memorizing and discussing Scripture
  • 17:17 Practices that bring us to knowledge of God
  • 22:08 Deuteronomic churches
  • 25:30 Serving and helping the lonely
  • 30:01 Torah economics—saving and feasting
  • 31:33 Right practice and right thinking about Scripture

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

The Knowledge Crisis and Misinformation in Biblical Perspective (Bonnie Kristian)18 Nov 202200:40:32

Constant cries of "fake news" and misinformation point to a central issue in our culture: we have far too much information from far too many sources, and we do not know whom to trust. Whether captivated by online communities and YouTube personalities or glued to Twitter and news sites, we consume a lot of content but remain ignorant, apathetic, and anxious.

In this episode, Dru interviews Bonnie Kristian about her new book Untrustworthy: The Knowledge Crisis Breaking Our Brains, Polluting Our Politics, and Corrupting Christian Community. They discuss the dangers of our culture's approach to knowledge, the importance of emotion and tradition in developing our beliefs, and how our daily practices shape our knowledge-acquisition. As we critically evaluate our habits, we can learn to better cultivate our attention and equip ourselves to receive and consider information.

Bonnie Kristian is a journalist and author. Currently, she writes the column "The Lesser Kingdom" at Christianity Today. Her work has been featured in The New York Times, USA Today, Politico, and The Daily Beast. Additionally, she holds a Master's degree in Christian Thought from Bethel Seminary.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 The dangers of the knowledge crisis
  • 4:30 Habituation from media
  • 6:50 Emotion and reason in the evangelical world
  • 8:57 The role of tradition
  • 10:52 Good epistemic practices and information overload
  • 14:28 Trustworthy guides and sources of information
  • 20:18 Blind-spots in reporting
  • 24:03 Bonnie's interest in epistemology
  • 28:00 The influence of YouTube and TikTok
  • 32:48 Can we escape our bad knowledge systems?
  • 35:35 Practices to develop right thinking

Show notes by Micah Long

Wisdom of Primal Peoples in the Era of World Christianity (Jangkholam Haokip)11 Nov 202200:34:04

Christianity is a truly global religion, and every strand of Christianity has its own theological emphases. Western Christians tend to focus on individual salvation and the question of what happens when we die. But as we amplify other Christian voices, we find that the riches of the gospel might stretch far beyond our original conceptions.

In this episode, Dru interviews Dr. Jangkholam Haokip, an Indian theologian, author, and former professor. Growing up in Churachandpur, Manipur, in Northeast India, Jangkholam converted to Christianity as a child. Drawing on his experiences with indigenous Indian culture and religion, he had the opportunity to develop a unique perspective on Christian theology, including Scripture's portrayal of sin's effects on nature, the value of yet-unheard perspectives, and the way that the gospels can affect the lives of whole communities.

After his long career as a professor at Union Biblical Seminary in India, Jangkholam has founded the Bethesda-Khankho Foundation, which aims to transform indigenous Indian communities through education and poverty outreach. He also contributed to the recent book Voices from the Margins: Wisdom of Primal Peoples in the Era of World Christianity.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Announcement about our upcoming event
  • 1:22 Converting to Christianity
  • 5:03 Further education and understanding the gospel
  • 8:51 Individualism in Western Christianity
  • 15:09 Sin and the health of nature
  • 20:10 Tribal Indian thought in the biblical texts and Western theology
  • 25:48 The value of indigenous theology
  • 29:47 Christianity as a help for Indian history, identity, and culture
  • 31:05 On Jangkholam's new book Voices from the Margins: Wisdom of Primal Peoples in the Era of World Christianity

Show notes by Micah Long

Our Complicated History with Evil (Discover Your Roots Season 2 Premiere)04 Nov 202200:36:24

Hitler is evil. Helping an old lady cross the street is good. Simple, right? But there’s an underlying question here: Why? What are good and evil?

In this crossover with our partner organization Passages Israel, Dru Johnson (CHT Director) and Mattanah DeWitt kick off Season 2 of Discover Your Roots, which aims to unpack weighty questions about the nature of good and evil. In this episode, Dru gives an overview of the season, walking us through a few common conceptions (and misconceptions!) about good and evil through the lens of psychology, philosophy, culture, and—ultimately—Scripture. The whole season is available here!

Discover Your Roots is produced by Passages Israel. Passages sponsors and coordinates journeys to the Holy Land to strengthen the faith of Christian students, connect them to Israel, and prepare them for a life of Christ-centered leadership.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Announcing the upcoming CHT event in NYC
  • 1:23 Introducing Season 2
  • 2:20 How modern culture thinks about evil
  • 7:40 Definitions of evil
  • 9:57 The theological history of evil
  • 13:42 The Hebrew word ra
  • 15:20 Why our words lose their weight
  • 17:07 An overview of the Bible's view
  • 21:59 God using evil for good
  • 23:29 Analyzing the golden calf story
  • 27:29 Turning toward good
  • 29:41 The redemption of the world
  • 32:23 Preview of the rest of the season

Show notes by Micah Long

Moving from Egypt to the U.S. as a Coptic Christian (Mariam Wahba)21 Oct 202200:38:47

Dru interviews Mariam Wahba, a Coptic Christian born in Egypt who immigrated to the U.S. as a child. They discuss the multiple facets of her identity and experience, including how being a Coptic Christian shaped everything from her interactions with Muslim Egyptians to how she now celebrates holidays in the U.S. She also describes some of the distinctives of Coptic Christianity, in contrast with Western Christianity, and explores the tension between cultural assimilation and retaining one's native identity as an immigrant.

Mariam Wahba is the Associate Directory of Advocacy at the Philos Project. A graduate from Fordham University, she works in the areas of Middle Eastern foreign policy, religious freedom, and Israeli-Arab relations. She co-hosts the podcast Americanish.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Moving to the United States
  • 3:11 Egyptian and Coptic identity
  • 7:50 Growing up in Islamic Egypt
  • 11:00 Ethnic and religious identity
  • 12:20 Moving to the west
  • 16:30 Cultural assimilation and retaining identity
  • 18:56 Coptic Christianity
  • 23:47 Confession, intercession, and priesthood
  • 25:51 The Coptic church calendar
  • 30:04 Persecuted Christianity versus cultural Christianity
  • 34:19 The most important part of being Egyptian

Show notes by Micah Long

The Pitfalls of Children’s Bibles (Rachel Wilkowski)14 Oct 202200:35:00

"Why wasn't I trained to read this way as a child?" —Rachel Wilkowski

Over the last several decades, the Christian world has eagerly produced a host of children's Bibles—retellings of biblical stories in "kid-friendly" language, complete with cute, colorful illustrations. Many of these children's Bibles, however, come laden with assumptions about the nature of childhood, which parts of Scripture are considered appropriate, and what "lesson" the stories teach. Rachel Wilkowski, a researcher in the area of children's Bibles, joins Dru Johnson to discuss history and pitfalls of these books. They discuss the impacts of "pre-interpreting" the biblical texts for children, including the propensity toward moralism and sanitizing some of the difficult parts of Scripture. They also consider how religious beliefs and the publishing industry combine to shape what is presented in these retellings of Scripture.

Rachel Wilkowski is a PhD student at Trinity College Dublin and Family Ministries Director at St. Peter's Fireside in Vancouver. She has particular research interest in how Genesis 1-3 (and other parts of the Hebrew Bible) are interpreted and retold in children's Bibles from different Jewish and Christian traditions. She has 14 non-biological nieces and nephews and one biological nephew.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Rachel's interest in children's Bibles
  • 4:18 The history of children's Bibles
  • 8:38 Religious beliefs and retelling Scripture
  • 12:05 What is considered appropriate for kids?
  • 15:33 Examples of poor retellings
  • 19:57 Sales, illustrations, and entertainment
  • 24:14 A children's Bible that gets it?
  • 26:42 Helping kids read Scripture
  • 29:41 Avoiding pre-interpreting Scripture and moralism

Show notes by Micah Long

Israelites vs. Hebrews vs. Jews . . . ? (Jason Staples)07 Oct 202200:30:56

What do we mean when we say that "Jesus was a Jew?" Scripture uses a lot of labels to refer to God's chosen people, including "Israelite," "Judahite," "Hebrew," and, of course, "Jew." In this episode, Jason Staples helps us sort through the etymologies, histories, ethnicities, and nationalities behind these labels, examining the earliest usage of "Jew" in the Hebrew Bible, its role in the Second Temple Period, and its interpretations in the modern era. He also considers key Bible passages that use these labels and helps debunk a common assumption about "Jew" as a pejorative term.

Jason Staples teaches at North Carolina State University in the areas of biblical literature, early Judaism and Christianity, and modern issues in ethics and religion. He is the author of The Idea of Israel in Second Temple Judaism: A New Theory of People, Exile, and Israelite Identity. In addition to his scholarly work, Jason has worked in sports media and voiceover narration.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 The history of the word "Jew"
  • 3:54 "Jew" versus "Israelite" in Scripture and beyond
  • 9:12 Jewish nationality and ethnicity after the exile
  • 14:33 What happened to the other tribes?
  • 15:50 Jesus was a Jew
  • 20:23 "King of the Jews" and King of the universe
  • 21:58 "The Israel of God"
  • 26:09 Paul as an Israelite and a Hebrew

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Growing Up Christian in the Gaza Strip (Khalil Sayegh)30 Sep 202200:30:17

In this week's episode, Khalil Sayegh shares his experience as a Palestinian Christian. The territory of Palestine contains two regions: the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Though they share a people and a history, the two areas are separated by the country of Israel and are ruled by two different governments (the West Bank by the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Gaza Strip by Hamas). Khalil discusses the modern political and religious dynamics at play in the Gaza Strip, including the relationships between Israel and Hamas and between Islam and Christianity. He also surveys Christianity in Palestine, from its use of Scripture to its approach to evangelism.

Khalil Sayegh is a Fellow at the Philos Project. He grew up in the Gaza Strip and currently lives in the West Bank. His public work focuses on challenging the negative perceptions of Jewish people in Palestinian society and promoting peace among the various religious groups in the region. He has studied at Bethlehem Bible College and American University.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Growing up in Gaza
  • 1:54 War, mobility, and Christianity in Gaza
  • 5:35 Sunni Islam and political parties
  • 7:24 Gaza's Christian churches
  • 9:15 Interactions between Christianity and Islam
  • 11:03 Political power in Gaza
  • 14:36 Christmas, Hamas, and public Christianity
  • 16:27 Conditions for visiting the West Bank
  • 19:30 Views of Christian Scripture in Palestine
  • 26:11 Evangelism and responses to conversion
  • 28:22 Cultural distinctives of the Palestinian church

Show notes by Micah Long

Why We Need the Global Church (Stephen T. Pardue)14 Nov 202300:41:36

In this episode, we discuss Stephen T. Pardue's newest book Why Evangelical Theology Needs the Global Church.

Revelation 101: Leaving Behind Left Behind (Jason Staples)23 Sep 202200:38:44

"This is a revelation of how things are, not so much how things have been." -Jason Staples

Modern Christians reading the Book of Revelation tend to filter it through the lens of popular fiction (such as the Left Behind series) and a very modern concept of its strange language and imagery. From the four horsemen, to the secret thunder in chapter 10, to the mixing of metaphors throughout the text, Revelation presents a challenge for modern readers.

In this episode, Dr. Jason Staples (Assistant Teaching Professor at North Carolina State University) helps sort through the symbols in the Book of Revelation. By examining the historical context of late Second Temple Judaism, the genre of apocalypse, and key passages from the Hebrew Bible, the meanings of the symbols begin to emerge. Though many passages remain mysterious, even to trained scholars, the Book of Revelation communicates a message of central importance about the present Kingdom of God and the role of the church in the world.

Jason Staples teaches in the areas of biblical literature, early Judaism and Christianity, and modern issues in ethics and religion. He is the author of The Idea of Israel in Second Temple Judaism: A New Theory of People, Exile, and Israelite Identity. In addition to his scholarly work, Jason has worked in sports media and voiceover narration.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Signs and symbols
  • 2:40 Understanding ancient reading norms
  • 6:42 Finding context for Revelation in other literature
  • 8:02 The Jewish experience in the 1st and 2nd centuries
  • 14:16 Defining the apocalypse genre
  • 19:40 Revelation and the Kingdom of God
  • 23:31 Mystery and God's control
  • 26:20 Reading the Hebrew Bible to understand Revelation
  • 32:42 New Heavens and the New Earth

Show notes by Micah Long

Would Moses Forgive Student Debt? (Michael Rhodes)16 Sep 202200:40:43

The Biden Administration's recent student debt forgiveness act in the U.S. has sparked conversations—many of them heated—about the nature of fairness, justice, poverty, and economic well-being.

In this episode, Michael Rhodes joins Dru to discuss debt forgiveness in Scripture and the modern world. Rhodes surveys the radical Torah policies of cyclical debt forgiveness and the Year of Jubilee, and how they contrast with the debt forgiveness policies in the rest of the ancient Near East. A world of subsistence farming where predatory loans can create cycles of debt slavery and intergenerational poverty may not immediately seem similar to modern America—but on a closer look, similarities appear.

Michael Rhodes is a Lecturer in Old Testament at Carey Baptist College in New Zealand. He has worked on community development programs in Kenya and South Memphis, and has also served as a pastor. His academic research focuses on the nature of justice and mercy in Torah economics and ritual meals in Scripture. He is also co-author of Practicing the King's Economy: Honoring Jesus in How We Work, Earn, Spend, Save, and Give.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Debt entrapment and debt slavery
  • 2:53 Predatory lending in the ancient Near East
  • 4:19 Modern American versus ancient Israelite debt forgiveness
  • 7:44 One-off debt forgiveness in the Bible
  • 9:33 Subsistence farming and for-profit colleges
  • 15:15 Intergenerational poverty
  • 22:06 The issue of fairness
  • 26:24 Righteousness, justice, and equity in Deuteronomy and Proverbs
  • 31:04 The ends and means of debt forgiveness
  • 32:26 Jesus and Jubilee

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

A Jewish View of the Afterlife in the Hebrew Bible (Jeremiah Unterman)09 Sep 202200:39:27

For Christians accustomed to certain ideas of heaven and hell, other views of the afterlife in Scripture may seem strange. But Jewish views of the afterlife have a storied and fascinating tradition of their own. In this episode, Dru is joined by Dr. Jeremiah Unterman, Senior Fellow at the Center for Hebraic thought. They discuss Jewish views of the afterlife from the ancient to modern times, encountering the concepts of sheol, ruach, gehenna, immortality, and judgment. Dr. Unterman offers perspectives on the story of Saul and the Necromancer, the phrase "gathered to their fathers," burial practices of the ancient Near East, and the role that theodicy plays in developing Jewish views of the afterlife.

Jerry Unterman is a Resident Scholar at the Herzl Institute, former professor (Yeshiva University, Northwestern University, and others), an author, and Senior Fellow at the Center for Hebraic Thought. In 2017, he released Justice for All: How the Jewish Bible Revolutionized Ethics, a look at the influence of the Hebrew Scriptures on the values and practices of the modern world.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Sheol and polytheism
  • 1:37 Egyptian versus Hebraic views of the afterlife
  • 4:09 Death in the Torah and Psalms
  • 6:07 The Necromancer of Endor
  • 9:18 Burial and "raising up"
  • 13:20 Hellenistic Judaism
  • 17:13 The idea of the soul and the world to come
  • 21:46 Greek versus Hebrew thought in the Apocrypha
  • 24:30 Medieval and Modern Jewish perspectives on the afterlife
  • 29:08 Looking at the New Testament
  • 33:40 The Talmud on Gehenna

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Thinking Biblically about Institutions (Ari Lamm)02 Sep 202200:48:43

The Bible tells stories about individuals, families, and nations. But it also tells stories about institutions—the chosen and unchosen social structures that range from marriage, to news media, to the Supreme Court. Today, many people see major institutions as weak, corrupt, or untrustworthy (sometimes correctly). In this episode, Dru welcomes Rabbi Dr. Ari Lamm back to the podcast for the fourth time to discuss the idea of institutions in the Hebrew Bible. Ari surveys the role of institutions the biblical narratives, looking at the earliest chapters of Genesis, the story of Abraham, the golden calf narrative, and the nations of Egypt and Babylon. They also discuss the right response to broken and corrupt institutions, the dangers of "spiritual highs," and the corrective role of prophetic voices.

Rabbi Dr. Ari Lamm is the CEO of Bnai Zion, an organization that aims to strengthen Israel and Jewish people, as well as the host of Good Faith Effort, a podcast that examines the Bible and its interactions with society. He studied Judaism and Christianity at University College London and Princeton University, and received his rabbinical ordination at the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary. He frequently writes and speaks about Jewish values and their positive impact on the world.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 The biblical view of institutions
  • 2:30 Biblical "false starts"
  • 7:15 Abraham and the Bronze Age
  • 10:07 How institutions come to exist
  • 14:27 Unchosen obligations
  • 19:40 Egypt and Babylon
  • 23:38 Being born into corrupt systems
  • 27:22 Spiritual awakenings and religious practices
  • 34:08 The most important verse in the Bible
  • 36:36 The political structure of biblical Israel
  • 44:48 Dealing with broken institutions

Show notes by Micah Long

The Bonhoeffer of Ethiopia (Abeneazer Urga)26 Aug 202200:35:37

Amid persecution from the Marxist state and a fragmented Ethiopian church, Gudina Tumsa became a figure who advocated a holistic theology of justice, church unity in Ethiopia, and the health and strength of the church more broadly. In this episode, Dru asks Abeneazer Urga about his book The Bonhoeffer of Africa, a biography of Ethiopian theologian Gudina Tumsa. Tumsa's life has brought him comparisons to Martin Luther King, Jr. and Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Along the way, Dru and Abeneazer discuss the state of the church in Ethiopia, from its fourth-century roots to its Christological theology to the way the Western church differs from the modern Ethiopian church.

Abeneazer Urga teaches at the Evangelical Theological College in Ethiopia and is a member of Equip International. He specializes in New Testament and Missiology and has done work exploring holistic theology and theology from an African perspective.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 The history of Christianity in Ethiopia
  • 3:35 Modern Ethiopian Christianity
  • 6:11 Christology in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church
  • 9:32 The persecution and influences of Gudina Tumsa
  • 15:57 Tumsa in the United States
  • 20:41 Practicing holistic theology
  • 22:50 Unity of the Ethiopian church
  • 25:53 The evangelical movement in Ethiopia
  • 28:20 Tumsa and the youth of Ethiopia
  • 29:55 Abeneazer's experience in modern Ethiopia and the United States

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

ICYMI: What Is the Point of Prayer? Does It Change God’s Mind? (John C. Peckham)19 Aug 202200:33:35

This episode was originally published in July, 2021. We thought it was worth a reissue for our newer listeners.

If God is sovereign, what is the point of prayer? Is it merely a meditative exercise, or do our petitions shape the outcome of history?

Prayer is a ritual and relational device Christians use to communicate with God. God is open to the requests of all people everywhere and actually wants to bring mercy and blessings instead of judgment—but that doesn’t mean that the function of prayer is simple to understand. Prayer is a nuanced activity. In this conversation, Dru Johnson and John C. Peckham answer a variety of questions surrounding prayer. Does God hear the prayers of people outside of the lineage of Israel? Can God act in contradiction to His promises and His Word if we pray for it? Does a person's character affect how God answers their prayers?

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Why pray to God?
  • 3:33 What did the biblical authors think of prayer?
  • 9:03 Effective prayers
  • 14:25 Do we get all we pray for?
  • 23:44 What is the role of hope?

Show notes by Serena Tuomi.

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

The Dangers of Celebrity in the Church (Katelyn Beaty)12 Aug 202200:38:32

We live in a fame-saturated culture. Celebrity figures run our largest corporations, media entities, and megachurches. But the characteristics of celebrity—unquestioned authority, dynamic public personas, and tendency toward abuse—make it a dangerous feature in Christian churches. Recent stories about abusive, exploitative celebrity pastors have spotlighted this fact.

In this episode, Katelyn Beaty discusses her new book Celebrities for Jesus: How Personas, Platforms, and Profits Are Hurting the Church. She identifies the key features of fame and celebrity that infect every element of our culture and diagnoses their central issues, including secrecy, self-promotion, anger, and pride. She asks whether the business world has become the model for the church and whether the American church is unique in its elevation of celebrity pastors. The church needs to know the dangers of celebrity and find ways to remain accountable in its pursuit of the gospel.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Seeking versus receiving fame
  • 2:14 Celebrity and self-promotion
  • 4:48 When the platform becomes the point
  • 9:00 Public personality and false intimacy
  • 12:21 Billy Graham and the Modesto Manifesto
  • 18:06 Anger, narcissism, leadership, and celebrity
  • 21:35 Privacy versus secrecy
  • 24:40 Church boards
  • 28:23 American megachurches
  • 34:21 Avoiding celebrity pastors

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Forming Trauma-Safe Churches (Scott Harrower and Joshua Cockayne)05 Aug 202200:35:44

We hear the word "trauma" a lot today—but what does it really mean? For Christians who have experienced horrific, overwhelming, life-threatening events events, the church can be a place either of fear or of healing. In this episode, Scott Harrower and Joshua Cockayne discuss their new book Dawn of Sunday: The Trinity and Trauma-Safe Churches (written with Preston Hill). They examine attitudes and practices that help us recognize, accept, and respond to traumatized individuals within the church. As the church becomes a community of help and safety, and as its members grow in Christlikeness, it can become a haven for the traumatized and vulnerable.

Scott Harrower is a Lecturer in Christian Thought at Ridley College and an ordained Anglican minister. He writes on the history of early Christianity and philosophical issues such as the problem of evil. Joshua Cockayne is a Divinity Honorary Lecturer at the University of St. Andrews. His research focuses on spirituality and ecclesiology, and he works in the area of analytic theology.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Distinguishing trauma from other kinds of pain or distress
  • 3:20 Commonplace horrors and their effects
  • 5:35 Writing Dawn of Sunday
  • 8:26 Seeing and responding to grief
  • 11:38 Responsible practices for dealing with trauma
  • 14:49 Making church a safe place
  • 20:21 Symptoms of trauma
  • 26:00 The church as a community of help
  • 31:03 Aiding those who are experiencing ongoing trauma

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Repentance in Deed and Word (Shalom Carmy)29 Jul 202200:39:05

We all desire repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation. But these concepts are complicated, and seeing them from a Jewish perspective on biblical law can provide a fresh perspective to non-Jews. In this episode, the discussion of repentance and forgiveness continues with Rabbi Shalom Carmy and Dru Johnson. They distinguish between the action of repentance and the intention of repentance and question whether you can really reconcile without both. They also consider group forgiveness, and whether any one member of a group can facilitate reconciliation on behalf of the group. Growing in these practices, and doing them biblically, requires sustained and frequent reflection on their significance.

Shalom Carmy is Assistant Professor of Jewish Philosophy and Bible at Yeshiva University. He specializes in biblical interpretation and modern Jewish thought, and writes for several religious and Jewish publications. He previously wrote “And God Saw Their Deeds”: Biblical Repentance in Action (and Less So in Feeling) for The Biblical Mind.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Actions versus words
  • 3:32 Repentance and forgiveness for groups
  • 7:00 Forgiveness in the Holocaust
  • 13:03 Commanding repentance
  • 17:28 Yom Kippur
  • 20:39 Regret, confession, and resolve
  • 26:17 Progressing in repentance
  • 28:08 The inner experience of reconciliation
  • 32:27 What is real forgiveness?

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Q&A Series: Is There Marriage in Heaven? (Dru Johnson)22 Jul 202200:28:11

From Genesis, marriage looks like it is one of the most important parts of creation. So, does Jesus really say in Luke 20 that there will be no "marrying and giving in marriage" in the new heavens and earth? In the first episode of The Biblical Mind Q&A series, Dru Johnson examines the phrase "marrying and giving in marriage" across Scripture—and what Jesus really meant by it.

In Luke 20, the Sadducees approach Jesus and ask about a woman who had multiple husbands. Jesus' response might seem to suggest that no one is married in the age of resurrection. Dru argues that Luke has in mind a broader, more subtle point about the resurrection and the end of the world.

Dru Johnson is the Director for the Center of Hebraic Thought, the host of The Biblical Mind Podcast, and an Associate Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at The King's College. He is also the author of the recent book Biblical Philosophy: A Hebraic Approach to the Old and New Testaments.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Introduction—is there marriage in heaven?
  • 2:43 Marriage as part of the structure of creation
  • 4:10 Examining Luke 20
  • 10:14 The purpose of Luke's gospel
  • 14:35 Luke 17: "Marrying and giving in marriage"
  • 21:21 Why Jesus isn't actually talking about marriage

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Are Psychedelics Good for Depression, or Anything at All? (Ben ”Doc” Askins) [Full Episode]21 Oct 202301:07:18

Audio editing (and strategic bleeping) by John Viinalass.

In the first half of this extra long episode: We discuss the strange biography of Ben "Doc" Askins, from combat medic to seminary student to Army physician's assistant (PA) to Psychiatric PA researching psychedelic medicine and trauma. 

 

In the second half of this extra long episode:

We discuss if there is an appropriate roll for various drugs, including psychedelics and MDMA, in assisting the dying, integrating traumas, and more. We also figure out what a "bad trip" on LSD might be. 

Discussing the New CHT Book on Gender in the Bible (Feat. 3 of the Contributors)15 Jul 202200:28:51

This episode previews the CHT's new book The Biblical World of Gender: The Daily Lives of Ancient Women and Men. Three of the authors from the book (Carmen Imes, Nijay Gupta, and Cynthia Shafer-Elliott) discuss their contributions. They touch on the gender assumptions in the ancient Near East and Roman Empire, along with some of the Bible's challenging passages about slavery and authority.

Carmen Imes is Associate Professor of Old Testament at Biola University and the author of Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters. She has been a missionary to the Philippines and releases "Torah Tuesday" videos on her YouTube channel. Nijay Gupta is Professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary, Editor-in-Chief of the Bulletin for Biblical Research, and the author of Paul and the Language of Faith. Cynthia Shafer-Elliott is Associate Dean and Associate Professor in the School of Theology and Leadership at William Jessup University. She does archaeological research on ancient Israel, including households, food preparation, and gender dynamics in the family, and is an editor of the recent T&T Clark Handbook of Food in Ancient Israel and the Hebrew Bible.

Show notes:

Carmen Imes

  • 0:00 Why we need to examine the biblical authors' view of gender
  • 3:42 The "sanctified imagination" and entering into the biblical story
  • 5:20 A selection from Carmen Imes's essay "Freedom Fighters of the Exodus"

Nijay Gupta

  • 9:07 Understanding Paul's "harshness"
  • 11:58 The biblical authors on the rape of slaves
  • 14:15 Examples of radical early Christian ethics
  • 16:26 Gender differences in the first-century Roman Empire

Cynthia Shafer-Elliott

  • 18:48 The importance of household archaeology
  • 21:19 Understanding the cultural assumptions of the biblical texts
  • 25:44 Hierarchy versus heterarchy

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

ICYMI: How the Translation of ’Faith’ in the Bible Falls Short (Matt Bates)01 Jul 202200:25:14

This episode was originally published in March, 2021. We thought it was worth a reissue for our newer listeners.

Many of us have learned definitions of faith, belief, and trust that merely concern internal mental states. We say we believe something when we mentally affirm its truth, and we say we trust God when we believe what the Bible says. But these introspective forms of faith aren't really what the biblical authors have in mind when they talk about faith in the Bible. For them, faith is more of a full-bodied allegiance to Jesus, a commitment to serve and work alongside Him as our King.

In this episode, Dr. Matthew Bates talks to Dru Johnson about allegiance and faith in the Bible. They consider how, in the context of the Roman empire, the idea of loyalty in patron–client relationships shaped the way the biblical authors understood trust, authority, and honor. Along the way, they also discuss some of the biblical metaphors for salvation that are drawn from the social dynamics of the ancient world, and how the Hebrew Bible influenced the New Testament's view of power and authority. They conclude by outlining about how modern people can understand the language of kingdom and lordship in Scripture, and how the church can inculcate rituals of allegiance in the body of Christ.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Trusting with our bodies, not just with our minds
  • 3:55 The word pistis in the Roman world
  • 6:50 Metaphorical language to describe our salvation
  • 9:48 What allegiance looks like
  • 14:15 How to think about Jesus' lordship
  • 17:46 Continuity between the New Testament and the Hebrew Bible
  • 20:00 Allegiance rituals in the church

Learn more about Matt Bates.

Matthew Bates's most recent book: Gospel Allegiance: What Faith in Jesus Misses for Salvation in Christ

Show notes by Micah Long.

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

How the Early Church Engaged with Scripture (Brian J. Wright)24 Jun 202200:37:31

When we think of the early church, some of us might imagine groups of illiterate believers guided by one or two trained readers or teachers. In fact, the historical reality was very different. Brian J. Wright describes an ancient world obsessed with reading—especially public, communal reading of significant texts, including lots of questioning and dialogue.

In this episode, Dru Johnson and Brian Wright examine literacy levels in the Roman Empire, the early church's engagement with Paul's letters, and historical evidence about reading in the first and second centuries. They also discuss the modern church's Bible engagement, and how we can take a more dialogical and active approach to reading Scripture.

Brian J. Wright is an associate pastor at Denia Community Church, an adjunct professor, and author of Communal Reading in the Time of Jesus: A Window into Early Christian Reading Practices. He studies communal reading in the scholarly context, challenging long-held views about literary culture, and also encourages contemporary communal reading practices.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 The "public reading mania" of the early Christian era
  • 3:20 Transformative, communal texts
  • 5:53 Literacy levels in the Roman Empire
  • 9:40 Defining "communal"
  • 12:23 Jewish practices for reading and debating Scripture
  • 14:18 A culture of collective correction
  • 17:27 Early Christian dialogue
  • 21:11 Dialogue in the modern church
  • 26:47 Reading entire epistles
  • 32:40 Reading "as long as time permits"
  • 35:28 Augustine about Ambrose reading

Tweetable Quote

"There's wisdom in us doing it [reading and teaching] together. Everything about the community is really at the heart of the conversation."

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Entering the Hell and Heartbreak of the Grotesque Book of Judges (Daniel Stulac)17 Jun 202200:35:16

Is the Book of Judges a morality play? A celebration of violence? An injunction against moral relativism? Could it be . . . good news?

In this week's episode, Dru Johnson interviews Dr. Daniel J. Stulac, who challenges us to enter the hell and heartbreak of this grotesque, violent, and provocative part of Scripture. Rather than adopting moralistic readings of Judges (common in Sunday school classes and children's Bibles), Daniel wants us to read Judges prophetically—as a book that mirrors the violence in our own hearts and turns us to greater dependence on an a King who will set things right.

Dr. Stulac is a visiting assistant professor of Old Testament at Duke Divinity School, and the author of the recent monograph, Gift of the Grotesque: A Christological Companion to the Book of Judges. His other areas of interest include the agriculture of ancient Israel and the intersection of agrarianism and biblical hermeneutics.

Show notes:

  • 0:00 Misconceptions about the Book of Judges
  • 2:59 The "theological nightmare"
  • 6:45 Violence in the Bible
  • 9:12 Time shifting in Judges
  • 12:46 Judges as literature of exile and testing
  • 17:35 Entering hell
  • 20:25 Idolatry and controlling the divine
  • 25:46 Judges and the Torah
  • 31:03 Why does Israel need a king?

Tweetable quote:

"At the heart of idolatry is the desire to be in control of the divine." (22:10)

Show notes by Micah Long

Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

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