Explore every episode of the podcast The Adoption Files

Please join me and my guest Dani Joy as we continue our conversation on spiritual trauma and adoption, from the perspectives of an adopted person and a mother of loss to adoption. We are using the book Holy Hurt by Hillary L McBride PhD as a guide for our discussion.

https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://www.hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt

https://youtu.be/3e0-SsmOUJI?si=LfXUJu2f59sjqdTh

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, our opinions

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

Please join Dani Joy and me, Ande, as we continue to discuss spiritual trauma and adoption, with the book Holy Hurt by Hilary McBride PhD as a scaffold. The foundation has been established, and now we are beginning the section of the book that discusses actively processing our trauma. We are working through this in real time, unscripted. Let us know if any of this feels familiar!

Dani is a mother of loss to adoption, a homesteader and a writer. She loves to hear from people. She can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://substack.com/@danijoy

https://www.facebook.com/joyfuldj

https://www.hillarylmcbride.com/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

Yes, I am terrible at titles, and hate to mislead. Just laying that out there.

Dani Joy, mother of loss to adoption and me, late discovery adopted person (as well as an intercountry adoptee from foster care in the UK to the US) continue to talk about deconstructing from the adoption narrative and from religious and spiritual trauma. What do they have to do with each other? Family loss is a profound spiritual trauma, and the belief systems we grew up in promote and glorify family loss via adoption.

Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

Dani enjoys hearing from people.

We are using the book Holy Hurt as a scaffold for our conversation. The book and information about the author can be found at: https://www.hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt

Mentioned in the episode:

https://drlauraeanderson.com/

Moms and adopted people are overrepresented in statistics for mental health issues, including suicidal ideation. Isolation and grief are two issues that profoundly impact our community. If you are in need of support, please reach out to someone. I am including some links to mental health helplines, as well as the link to Concerned United Birthparents and to Saving our Sisters. If anyone is aware of any adoptee -centric helplines that are not in some way controlled by the adoption industry, please let me know. Thank you!

https://rainn.org/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

https://concernedunitedbirthparents.org/

https://www.savingoursistersadoption.org/

Saving our Sisters and CUB are not mental healthcare providers, but are or are aware of support groups and resources for moms.

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

Hi! Please join me and my guest host Dani Joy as we continue with the next section of our conversation on spiritual trauma from our perspectives as a mother of loss to adoption and as a late discovery adopted person, raised in white, Christian contexts.

Dani Joy is a mom and a homesteader. She can be found at:https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://www.hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt

Mentioned in the episode:

https://editionsdujournal.groupelivre.com/products/ne-mappelez-pas-roxana?variant=48067092021505

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=core+emotions+chart&form=HDRSC3&first=1

https://buddhistlearning.org/how-to-meditate-a-beginners-guide-to-buddhist-meditation/ This is a beginners quide to Buddhist meditation principles. Including this here is not an endorsement of a religion or a religious practice. This is provided because it includes what I was taught when attending meditation sessions at a local Buddhist monastery.

Exploring our emotions, learning to recognize and to name them, can be overwhelming if we are not used to doing so. If you are feeling dysregulated or distressed, please seek support. I am including here links to some resources that might align with your needs.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

https://rainn.org/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening!

Please join us as we continue our conversation around spiritual trauma and adoption as we work our way through the book Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L McBride PhD . Todays' episode explores the concept of spiritual bypassing as a coping mechanism to avoid feeling our core emotions. Joining me again today is Dani Joy, mom, homesteader, exvangelical.

Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening!

Please join Dani Joy and I as we delve into the core emotions and how we are born with these crucial forms of communication. We continue to explore how adoption and spiritual trauma intersect, using the book Holly Hurt as a framework for our discussion.

Dani Joy can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

Mentioned in the episode:

https://www.relinquishedbook.com/

https://savingoursistersadoption.org/saving-our-sisters-about-us/

https://thefamilypreservationproject.com/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

Please join Dani Joy and I as we continue our conversation about spiritual trauma and adoption. We are using the book Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L McBride, PhD as a scaffold for our conversation. We just started Chapter 5!

How do the roles of victim, villain and rescuer play out in your life? What do they have to do with spiritual trauma? With adoption? Let us know what you think after you join us for the episode.

Dani Joy can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

She loves to hear from people!

https://hillarylmcbride.com/books/

https://mental-health-matters.org/2021/01/20/what-is-the-karpman-drama-triangle/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions,

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

Please join Dani Joy and me as we continue to discuss spiritual trauma and adoption. I am a Late Discovery, Intercountry adopted person. Dani is a mother of loss to adoption.

Dani can be found at https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/generational-trauma

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12220155/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6378493/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions

the host is not a lawyer, therapist, or an adoption professional

thank you for listening

Please join Dani Joy and I as we continue to explore spiritual trauma using the book Holy Hurt by Hillary L McBride Phd as a scaffold for our discussion. How might these spiritual wounds relate to Dani's experience as a mother of loss to adoption? How has my being an adopted person been shaped by spiritual trauma? In this installment we talk about the return to the familiar, even when the familiar hurts.

Dani Joy is a mother of loss to adoption, a homesteader and blogger. She can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20355967

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24881-cptsd-complex-ptsd

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening.

Please join Dani Joy and I as we discuss the section What we need from the beginning, from the book Holy Hurt by Hilary L McBride, PhD.

Dani is a mother of loss to adoption, as well as a homesteader, advocate and writer. Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

California Alliance For Adoptee Rights and Senator Wahab have a bill being heard in the Health Committee this Tuesday, 23 June 2026. They need you to call the members of the Health Committee to ask that they vote yes on the bill as it is written, without amendments.

Please follow the link to find a script and the phone numbers of the members of the Health Committee.

https://www.facebook.com/CAadopteerights/posts/pfbid034DfNoKF8Kd3KM7c5jHPbu7XEAKBGkhFMbmLAH2GTVTzBQLcbjkZsFadKhyvMaBgSl

If for some reason the link does not work, please go to California Alliance for Adoptee Rights and click on the featured post at the top of the page.

Thank you so much for your support.

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

Thank you for listening.

Please join me and Dani Joy as we continue our conversation about the intersection of spiritual trauma and adoption. We are talking trauma, just nonstop, processing! It's so fun. Come have fun with us! We are using the book Holy Hurt; Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing as a scaffold for our conversations.

Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

I can be found here, pretty much.

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Please consider rating and sharing the episode. Thank you!

Please join me and Dani Joy as we continue to address spiritual trauma from our lived experience as a mother of loss to adoption and as a late discovery adopted person.

Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that- their opinions

The host is not a lawyer, therapist, or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening!

Please join me for my conversation with Jean Kelly Widner, a domestically adopted person who is the author of The Adoption Paradox: Putting Adoption in Perspective. Jean is a Baby Scoop Era adopted person from Washington who has found herself as an Accidental Tourist in the paradox that is living adopted.

https://adoptionparadox.com/

Mentioned in the episode:

https://boothcampus.salvationarmy.org/booth_campus/booth-records/

https://doh.wa.gov/licenses-permits-and-certificates/vital-records/adoptions/original-birth-certificate-adopted-person

https://adopteerightslaw.com/truth/

https://savingoursistersadoption.org/

https://thefamilypreservationproject.com/

https://www.relinquishedbook.com/

https://www.thegirlswhowentaway.com/

https://onadoption.net/

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, our opinions.

The host is not a therapist, a lawyer, or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening!

Please join Dani Joy and I as we continue our conversation about spiritual trauma using the book Holy Hurt by Hilary L McBride PhD as a guide as we explore how this has impacted us as a mother of loss to adoption and as an adopted person.

Both Dani and I come from a Christian religious tradition, and we speak to our own lived experience as people deconstructing from religion and from the adoption narrative.

Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

Mentioned on the podcast:

https://candacecahill.com/book/

https://www.youtube.com/@maklelan

https://www.youtube.com/@dataoverdogma

If you are experiencing distress and need to talk, please reach out to one of the trained responders or to someone you feel safe with: https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening! Please rate and review the show. We appreciate you.

Please join me and mom Dani Joy as we wrap up chapter 3 in our discussion of spiritual trauma using the book Holy Hurt by Hilary L McBride PhD as a guide. In this episode we talk about how leaving can end up being more of the same, and why that happens. We also talk about characteristics of marginalized groups that intersect with our experiences with adoption.

Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://thebloggess.com/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions

The host is not a therapist, a lawyer or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

Please join Dani Joy and me as we continue our conversation on spiritual trauma using the book Holy Hurt: understandin spiritual trauma and the process of healing by Hillary McBride, PhD

Dani can be found at https://medium.com/@danijoy

Holy Hurt: https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://scienceinsights.org/what-is-ecological-systems-theory-and-why-it-matters/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

If you or anyone you know is contemplating suicide, please contact one of the help lines for support. Ask for help finding a support group or other resource to help you through this time. You are not alone.

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening. You are appreciated.

Hi! This is me, stream-of-thought-ing my way through a monologue on one of my least favorite days of the year. Enjoy!

The host is not a therapist, a lawyer or an adoption professional. The opinions of the host are just that, their opinions.

Thank you for listening.

Please join me as Dani and I talk about the journey so far, in our conversation about spiritual trauma and how we got here.

Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

If you are in crisis and need to talk, please reach out to one (or more) of the helplines listed in the link. You matter. https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

The host is not a therapist, a lawyer or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening! Please consider rating the podcast. We are glad you are here.

Please join Dani and I as we continue our conversation using the book Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L McBride as a guide to exploring how spiritual trauma and adoption intersect in our lives as a mother of loss and as an adopted person.

Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://mhanational.org/resources/co-dependency/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions

The host is not a therapist, a lawyer or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

Please join me for a conversation with Toronto Canada stepparent adopted person Craig Wallace.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/search-adoption-records

People who are adopted, even by stepparents, are legally barred from accessing a certified copy of their original birth certificate. Some places allow an adopted person to access a noncertified copy at a specified age.

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening

Please join me and Dani Joy as we explore the next two Cs of spiritual trauma: Consequences and Compliance. We continue to explore how spiritual trauma plays out in our lives as a mother of loss to adoption and as an adopted person. We are reading the book Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L McBride, PhD

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

The host is not a therapist, a lawyer or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

Please join me as I talk with New York adoptee, Elizabeth Barbour

Elizabeth Barbour (she/her) is an adoptee and adoptive mom with 27 years of reunion experience. In 1999, she found her birthmom, birthdad and eleven (!) brothers and sisters. An adoption reunion coach, speaker and author of two books, she’s currently writing her third about building healthy relationships in adoption reunions. Elizabeth helps people find grace and grounding amidst the grief and complexity of the reunion process through self-care, storytelling, and ritual. She lives in Asheville, North Carolina and you can learn more about her at www.elizabethbarbour.com

Elizabeth Barbour Links

Websites: www.elizabethbarbour.com and www.sacredcelebrations.com

Order Sacred Celebrations book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CLTXRL56

New Coaching Program: www.elizabethbarbour.com/solid-ground

FB: https://www.facebook.com/elizabethbarbour

IG: https://www.instagram.com/elizabthbarbour/

Elizabeth Barbour, M.Ed.

Intuitive Life & Business Coach, Healer, Author & Speaker

Asheville, NC

www.elizabethbarbour.com

www.sacredcelebrations.com

828-279-5218

Check out my award-winning new book Sacred Celebrations: Designing Rituals to Navigate Life’s Milestone Transitions

Mentioned in the episode:

https://www.wearekaan.org/

https://concernedunitedbirthparents.org/

https://savingoursistersadoption.org/

https://thefamilypreservationproject.com/

https://www.alsoknownas.org/

https://adoptionmosaic.com/

https://naapunited.org/

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, our opinions

The host is not a therapist, a lawyer, or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

Please join me for part 2 of my conversation with Ohio adoptee and author Paige L Adams Strickland

Paige can be found places online, including:

@paigestricklanddom

https://paigestrickland.substack.com/

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/7263308.Paige_L_Adams_Strickland

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-talk-about-the-different-types-of-adoption/id1598023322?i=1000585139950

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/interview-with-paige-l-adams-strickland/id1598023322?i=1000543557873

Mentioned in this series:

https://adopteerightslaw.com/truth/

https://bastards.org/

Adoptee Rights Coalition can be found on facebook

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions

The host is not a therapist, a lawyer or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

Please join me as I talk with Paige L Adams Strickland, Ohio adoptee and author

Paige has been a guest on the podcast in the past. This two episode talks a bit more about just what is included when an Ohio adopted person requests their adoption file.

Paige can be found at numerous places online, including:

@paigestricklanddom

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/134608472-akin-to-the-truth

https://medium.com/@paigeas

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/interview-with-paige-l-adams-strickland/id1598023322?i=1000543557873

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-talk-about-the-different-types-of-adoption/id1598023322?i=1000585139950

https://paigestrickland.substack.com/

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

The host is not a therapist, a lawyer or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

Please join me as I continue my conversation with mother of loss to adoption Cindy Shultz. We talk about how the loss of a child can lead to substance use, and how the love of a child can lead to sobriety.

Cindy Shultz is a mother of church-coerced child loss who transforms lived experience into advocacy. Raised in the shadow of poverty and stigma, Cindy was a mother in crisis when Catholic Charities pressured her into relinquishing her son in a process she felt powerless to stop. This experience of unnecessary child loss is the foundation of her mission to support the systematically oppressed.

As the founder of Cindy's Family Preservation Alliance and a volunteer for Saving Our Sisters, she provides pregnant women the education and resource navigation she was once denied. Professionally, Cindy serves as a Wellness and Services coordinator at two local shelters, providing holistic case management for unhoused women. She is a certified Holistic Life Coach, Recovery Coach and Laughter Yoga Leader creating healing centered environments that honor the intersections of trauma, substance use, and family separation. Her work is a living testament that healing is possible and that family preservation is a fundamental human right that must be protected. If you are interested in Coaching or the healing power of Laughter Yoga, join her free Skool community Love Our Laughter.

https://www.facebook.com/familypreservationalliance/

https://www.skool.com/love-our-laughter-wellness-5520/about

https://savingoursistersadoption.org/

Mentioned in the episode

https://www.aa.org/

https://sherecovers.org/

https://recoverydharma.org/

https://celiacenter.org/

https://mentalhealthhotline.org/

The opinions of the host and the guest are just that, our opinions.

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional

Thank you for listening!

Please join Dani and I as we continue to grapple with how spiritual and religious trauma have impacted our lives both through the lens of adoption and in our lives in general. Our conversation is being guided by the book Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://www.apa.org/topics/crisis-hotlines

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, our opinons.

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening.

Join Dani Joy and I as we talk about what we have learned so far as we finish Chaper 2 of Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L McBride PhD

Dani Joy can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions

The host is not a therapist, a lawyer or an adoption professional

Please join Dani Joy and I as we continue to talk about spiritual trauma and adoption, using the book Holy Hurt: Understadning Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L McBride, PhD

Dani Joy can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening!

Please join Dani Joy and I as we continue our conversation about spiritual trauma and adoption, using the book Holy Hurt: Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing, by Hillary L McBride, PhD. We have reached page 28, and are talking about McBrides' lists of the physical, social, relational and spiritual symptoms of spiritual trauma.

Dani Joy can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy

Holy Hurt: https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://concernedunitedbirthparents.org/

https://www.facebook.com Adoption Trauma Network

https://rainn.org/

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions.

The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening!

Please join Dani and I as we continue to explore the intersection of adoption and spiritual trauma. We continue to use the book Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L McBride, PhD as a framework for our conversation. Today we cover material from pages 37-48

Dani Joy is a first mom. She can be found at https://medium.com/@danijoy

I am a Late Discovery, Intercountry, Former Foster Child adopted and brought to the USA when I was a toddler.

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/6392-stress-coping-with-lifes-stressors

https://www.apa.org/topics/crisis-hotlines

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

https://rainn.org/

https://savingoursistersadoption.org

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions

The host is not a lawyer, therapist or an adoption professional

Please join me and Adriana Rockefeller as we talk about what has happened in her fight to be recognized as a person since we spoke early last year in a two part interview here on the podcast.

Adriana is still fighting to be recognized by Romania and Canada as a legal person. You can be a part of making that happen, as her court case continues.

Adriana was raised as Roxana Pamela. Two years ago, she discovered that she had been adopted to Canada from Romania using another infants birth certificate. She subsequently discovered that this invalidates her own legal identity, leaving her in limbo, and without a state.

You can help Adriana achieve personhood by purchasing her book and by donating to her fundraiser for legal funds. In a time where we often feel powerless, this is an opportunity to do something concrete for a victim of human trafficking.

Her book Ne M'appelez pas Roxana:

https://www.indigo.ca/en-ca/ne-mappelez-pasroxana/9782897612764.html

Instagram: @adriana.citizenofnowhere

gofundme.com/f/Help-Adriana-Reclaim-Her-Identity

tiktok: @adriana.citizenofnowhere

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2024/12/07/adoption-et-trafic-denfants-en-roumanie-une-quebecoise-part-a-la-recherche-de-sa-veritable-identite

TVA JE Episode: Adoption ou Trafique Humain? Available in Canada or if you have a VPN

Just a short episode sharing some of what came up for me after talking with mom Cindy Shultz. Reconciling the reality of how the adoption industry uses coercion to separate families with the stereotypes and the myth of Rescue that is presented to adopted people is an ongoing struggle for me.

As my (now retired) therapist used to ask: How is that story serving you?

The opinion of the host is just that, their opinion. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening! Please rate and review, as this helps to make the podcast more visible.

Please join me as I talk with mom Cindy Shultz about her experience with open adoption.

Cindy Shultz is a mother of church-coerced child loss who transforms lived experience into advocacy. Raised in the shadow of poverty and stigma, Cindy was a mother in crisis when Catholic Charities pressured her into relinquishing her son in a process she felt powerless to stop. This experience of unnecessary child loss is the foundation of her mission to support the systematically oppressed.

As the founder of Cindy's Family Preservation Alliance and a volunteer for Saving Our Sisters, she provides pregnant women the education and resource navigation she was once denied. Professionally, Cindy serves as a Wellness and Services coordinator at two local shelters, providing holistic case management for unhoused women. She is a certified Holistic Life Coach, Recovery Coach and Laughter Yoga Leader creating healing centered environments that honor the intersections of trauma, substance use, and family separation. Her work is a living testament that healing is possible and that family preservation is a fundamental human right that must be protected. If you are interested in Coaching or the healing power of Laughter Yoga, join her free Skool community Love Our Laughter.

https://www.facebook.com/familypreservationalliance/

https://www.skool.com/love-our-laughter-wellness-5520/about

https://savingoursistersadoption.org/

The opinions of the host and their guest(s) are just that, our opinions. The host is not a lawyer, therapist or adoption professional.

All resources shared are shared as a courtesy to the podcasts guests. The host encourages everyone to vet resources for themselves.

Thank you for listening!

Please join mom, adoptee advocate, writer and homesteader Dani Joy and me as we continue to explore the intersection of spiritual trauma and adoption through our conversation with the book Holy Hurt, Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L McBride PhD.

https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, our opinions. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

Please join me as I speak with the board of Adoptees for Family Preservation. AdopteesFFP.org was formed with the goal of supporting advocacy and education about the way that the adoption industry functions today and to promote family preservation rather than family dissolution. The board members all bring their own lived experience as adopted people to the conversation, along with their skills as professionals in a range of career fields.

Please check out their bios at the non-profits website for more information about Sullivan Summer, Lora Alegria and Lilly Anspach.

Please share the links to adopteesffp.org with everyone you know! Be a part of something powerful.

https://www.adopteesffp.org/

Find them on Instagram @adopteesffp

Check out Haley Radke at: https://onadoption.net/

https://www.adopteeson.com/about

Donate and be a part of creating healthier communities at: https://www.adopteesffp.org/donations

The opinions of the host and their guests are just that, our opinions. The host is not a therapist, lawyer or adoption professional

First mom Dani Joy joins me as we discuss spiritual trauma through the lens of adoption. We are reading and discussing the book Holy Hurt, by Hillary L McBride PhD. We hope the listeners will join us in this journey to understand and to navigate adoption related spiritual and religious trauma.

https://medium.com/@danijoy

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20355967?cjdata=MXxOfDB8WXww&cjevent=acd48c2d0b8111f1804e00550a1eba24&cm_mmc=CJ-_-100357191-_-5250933-_-Evergreen+Link+for+Mayo+Clinic+Diet&utm_source=cj&utm_content=100357191&utm_capaign=3-months

https://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/treat/txessentials/complex_ptsd_assessment.asp

https://www.nicabm.com/program/a1-brain-trauma-fb2/?del=bing.1718.ptsd&network=o&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=530620131&ad_group_id=1351302280065123&utm_term=traumatic%20stress&utm_content=&del=bing530620131&msclkid=bee2c579db9c177b015bacea48f39198

https://www.mhanational.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/MHM-2025-Resource-List.pdf

https://rainn.org/

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/vagus-nerve-reset

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/box-breathing-benefits

The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, our opinions. The host is not a therapist, a lawyer or an adoption professional.

Dani Joy, first mom, birthmothers rights advocate, adoptee ally. amazing friend joins me in reviewing the book Holy Hurt Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L Mc Bride PhD.

https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/

We are reviewing the book from the perspectives of a mother of loss to adoption and a person lost to adoption. Religion contributed a great deal to the trauma we have both experienced and informs the family severance narrative to this day.

We hope you will join us in this journey.

Please be aware that the episodes will discuss things that may be triggering to many of our listeners. Please take care of yourself.

The host and their guest are not adoption professionals, lawyers or mental health professionals. Our opinions are just that, our opinions. They are informed by our respective educations and lived experiences.

This episode is the conclusion to my trip to Georgia, hoping to meet maternal family, and walk in circles for a lot of hours just in case no one showed up.

Day two here. My day to stretch out after traveling. One of my free time days that I hoped to meet family. I deliberately included a week day and a weekend day, because, timing?

Have you ever thought about the way you move? How some, any of your gestures may mirror those of a family member? How seeing them in yourself may make for a sense of belonging?

I would love to experience that. Have you?

This is a messy episode. I recorded this at the end of a very long day where i woke up at 2 am, drove an hour to an airport and then wore an itchy mask for ten hours to get to a place I am not sure I want to be in order to do one thing I want to do and feel conflicted about another thing I am not sure is going to happen or if I want it to happen if it does.

I am in Georgia for an Ultra. I am in Georgia to maybe, finally, meet my mom. And maybe my maternal siblings.

And also, the Ultra, which is put on by a group called Yeti Trail Runners and is called The Dark Anchor. If you have never done an endurance event-think about participating. Training to complete a marathon or an ultra or a century or, well, there are lots of options, teaches you a lot about yourself and about other people.

Listen to learn about Californias new bill designed to restore unrestricted access to original birth certificates for people adopted in California. You can be a part of making history and restoring equality!

The bill: CA SB 381 2026 (this number was assigned to a housing bill for last legislative session. This will change when session for this year opens)

Sponsor: Author Senator Aisha Wahab

The bill restores unrestricted access to original birth certificates for adult people who were adopted as minors in the state of California



https://caallianceforadopteerights.org/legislative-updates/

https://concernedunitedbirthparents.org/how-we-can-help

https://bastards.org/

https://savingoursistersadoption.org/

https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/

https://registertovote.ca.gov/

https://www.adopteerightscoalition.com/

The opinions of the host are just that, their opinion. The host is not a lawyer or an adoption professional.

The road to hell is paved in good intentions. What might this have to do with adoption? Listen to this conversation with embodiment instructor and adoptee rights advocate Lorah Gerald, also known as The Adopted Chameleon on social media. Information about Lorah and links to her social media can be found at https://lorahgerald.com/

Mentioned in the episode

http://kathrynjoyce.com/books/the-child-catchers/

https://www.relinquishedbook.com/

https://thefamilypreservationproject.com/

https://adopteerightslaw.com/

https://adopteesunited.org/

https://www.adopteesforjustice.org/

https://savingoursistersadoption.org/

The host is not a lawyer or a therapist. The opinions of the host and their guests are just that, our opinions.

Mary Kae Kelsch was adopted in 1970 in North Dakota, but was she born there? Where is her birth certificate located? Please join as we talk about the laws in North Dakota and Minnesota, about reunion, and about the importance of every voice.

Mentioned in the episode:

https://www.health.state.mn.us/people/vitalrecords/adoption.html

https://adopteerightslaw.com/north-dakota/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057773/

The opinions of the host and their guest(s) are just that, their opinions. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening!

Please join us for the conclusion of my conversation with Adriana, a Romanian person fraudulently adopted to Canada as an infant in 1991.

Adriana can be found on social media @adriana.citizenornowhere on ig and TikTok.

More of Adrianas story can be found using the links below. Adriana was the subject of a documentary in French, as well as several news aritcles. A link to an English translation is included below.

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2024/12/07/adoption-et-trafic-denfants-en-roumanie-une-quebecoise-part-a-la-recherche-de-sa-veritable-identite

http://database.againstchildtrafficking.org/node/203240

http://database.againstchildtrafficking.org/node/203241

You can support the work of Echoes From Home by donating to their efforts to provide DNA testing for Romanian and Roma adopted people and their families. Please use the link below to visit their page on FB

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61562822742468&mibextid=wwXIfr&rdid=Y1Sywgo8oI2TBW2Z&share_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fshare%2F1F9LtvsUd9%2F%3Fmibextid%3DwwXIfr#

You can also help Adriana with her mounting expenses by donating to her gofundme. The podcast always encourages listeners to research and confirm information whenever making donations to any fundraiser or organization.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/adriana-sapproprie-sa-vrai-identite?attribution_id=sl:52b49f82-71bd-4128-a568-069984fe5967&utm_campaign=fp_sharesheet&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link

The Never Forgotten Children group was instrumental in helping Adriana. They may be found at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/373713406098147

I

The opinions of the host and their guest(s) are just that, their opinions. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoy the podcast, please take a moment to rate the show. This will help make the podcast easier for others to find and enjoy. Thank you.

Please join us for Part 3 of my conversation with Adriana, a Romanian person trafficked to Canada for the purpose of adoption, who only recently discovered she was adopted under another persons name.

This was meant to be the conclusion to the three part series, but we experienced a technical difficulty. The conclusion to the series will be up soon.

Adriana can be found on social media on Ig and Tiktok @adriana.citizenofnowhere

For people interested in helping support Adriana in her efforts to establish an identity secure her citizenship rights, and begin her life as her own person (at 35!), here is a link to the gofundme set up to help her. https://www.gofundme.com/f/adriana-sapproprie-sa-vrai-identite?attribution_id=sl:52b49f82-71bd-4128-a568-069984fe5967&utm_campaign=fp_sharesheet&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link

Adriana has also set up a foundation to help others in similar situations to herself. DNA has become a vital resource help reunite families. By supporting Echoes From Home, you support the purchase of DNA test kits to make reunion possible. https://www.facebook.com/people/Echoes-From-Home/61562822742468/

The opinions of the host and their guest(s) are just that, their opinions. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening!

Please join us for part two of my conversation with Adriana, a Romanian person fraudulently transported to Canada for adoption under another persons name. She only recently discovered her true identity and status, while also learning that Canada has known since 2015.

Adriana can be found at: @adriana.citizenofnowhere on both TikTok and Instagram

Mentioned in the episode and related information:

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2024/12/07/adoption-et-trafic-denfants-en-roumanie-jamais-je-nai-remis-en-question-la-legalite-de-ladoption-confie-la-maman-adoptive-dune-enfant-roumaine

https://www.tvaplus.ca/tva/j-e/saison-32/episode-936-adoption-ou-trafic-humain-1590008641

http://database.againstchildtrafficking.org/node/203240

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61562822742468&mibextid=wwXIfr&rdid=q1XnOGVu7FEm83PW&share_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fshare%2F1F9LtvsUd9%2F%3Fmibextid%3DwwXIfr#http://database.againstchildtrafficking.org/node/203241

If you would like to help Adriana continue in her efforts , please donate to her GoFundMe. The podcast always encourages everyone to verify for themselves information prior to making donations.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/adriana-sapproprie-sa-vrai-identite?attribution_id=sl:52b49f82-71bd-4128-a568-069984fe5967&utm_campaign=fp_sharesheet&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link

The host and their guest(s) opinions are just that, their opinions. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional.

In 1991, Adriana was trafficked to Canada from Romania . Hers was the last private adoption allowed before the changing of laws governing children internationally adopted from Romania. Please join us as we talk about how she discovered the reality of her adoption as a person raised with a fraudulent origin story.

Mentioned in the episode:

https://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2024/12/07/adoption-et-trafic-denfants-en-roumanie-une-quebecoise-part-a-la-recherche-de-sa-veritable-identite-1

https://gettotext.com/quebec-government-aware-of-adoption-irregularities-in-romanian-child-case-for-nine-years/

https://adoptedfromromania.ro/

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadians/adopt-child-abroad/processes.html

https://www.quebec.ca/en/family-and-support-for-individuals/pregnancy-parenthood/adoption/international-adoption

https://www.rferl.org/a/32213639.html

The opinions of the host and their guest(s) are just that, their opinions. The host is not a lawyer, therapist or an adoption professional.

Thank you for listening!

Please join me as I talk with Lorah Gerald about her experience taking course modules presented by the NTI as well as working as a presenter and collaborator as they increase their knowledge base.

Lorah can be found as The Adopted Chameleon on Facebook, Tiktok, and Instagram.

Mentioned in the episode:

NTI Training: Expert Adoption Support for Professionals | C.A.S.E.Prioritizing trauma-informed careAccess to Adoption Records - Oklahoma | Child Welfare Information GatewayMaternal-infant bonding by Marshall H. Klaus | Open LibraryEmbodiment: A Conceptual Deep Dive | Meridian University(PDF) The psychobiology of early attachmentMother-infant cosleeping, breastfeeding and sudden infant death syndrome: What biological anthropology has discovered about normal infant sleep and pediatric sleep medicineThe opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions. The host is not a therapist, a lawer or an adoption professional.

List of Hotlines for Mental Health HelpThank you for listening!

Please join me as I speak with non-adoptee Andrea Coates and adoptee Greg Gentry as we discuss Greg's pursuit of his non-identifying information from the state of California. Andreas experience as a Search Angel informs how she goes about helping. Greg and Andrea are romantic partners, which brings a layer of complexity to the search. How might non-adopted people be present for adopted people as they pursue their documents?

Mentioned in the episode:

California adoption law: Adoption RecordsCalifornia Department of Social Services: Home | California Dept. of Social ServicesSome resources for people interested in learning more about how adoption affects the adopted person:

Adoptees OnAdoptee Reading: An Adoption Book Catalog - Books Written & Recommended By Adoptees(2) InterCountry Adoption News | Facebook(2) Adoption: Facing Realities | FacebookAdoptees United | Identity, Citizenship, EqualityAdoptee Rights Law Center PLLCAdoptees on Tiktok, IG, Bluesky.

There are so many.

mhcc_Trauma-IRL-Tips_A4-2.pdf

The host and their guests' opinions are just that, our opinions. The host is not a lawyer, therapist or adoption professional.