No guest. No agenda. No plan. Just Emily and Courtney showing up, catching each other up on their weeks, and somehow covering: shoplifting ethics, a stolen Power Ranger backpack, a suspicious kid at Target, toad venom, recovery, sitting with your feelings, and a stroller left alone in a parking lot that may or may not have had a baby in it.

This is one of those episodes that was never supposed to be anything — and ends up being kind of everything. Grab a coffee, put your earbuds in, and hang out with us for a bit.

"Life is not glossy and beautiful. It's fucking nasty. But it's also... real." — Emily White, 2025, exhausted as usual

📎 Reach out: Have a story, a question, or something you've been carrying? We read anonymous submissions. Email us: thatwasnttheplanpod@gmail.com or visit thatwasnttheplan.com.

💌 Reach us at thatwasnttheplanpod@gmail.com or visit us at thatwasnttheplan.com

📲 Find us on Instagram | TikTok | YouTube — search @thatwasnttheplanpodcast

🎧 If you like what we're doing, subscribe, leave a review, and share us with a friend. It genuinely helps more than you know.

That wasn't the plan, and we will talk to you next week. K bye. 🥂

Support the show

(Courtney's back, everyone. Let the drinks flow. Also — Courtney's tooth made a brief unscheduled disappearance. We kept it in. You're welcome.)

This week, Emily and Courtney sit down with someone doing some of the most quietly essential work in grief support: Lindsay Brockman, licensed veterinary nurse, certified pet loss grief specialist, and founder of EverKin Pet Loss Support out of Richmond, Virginia. Lindsay has fifteen years across ER, end-of-life, and community animal medicine — and she's seen firsthand what happens when the humans in those exam rooms are left to navigate loss with nothing but a sympathy card and a parking validation.

Her framework is built around disenfranchised grief — the grief the world doesn't quite know how to honor. The grief that gets "it was just a pet." Or "you'll get another one." Or the silence where a casserole should be. Lindsay's entire practice exists to say: no. All grief deserves support.

But Lindsay brings more than professional expertise to this conversation. Earlier this year, her son Jack was stillborn at 38 weeks. And in one of the most honest, tender moments we've had on this show, she talks about how both losses — the ones she holds for clients, and the one she carries herself — share the same language. The same weight. The same need to be witnessed.

What you'll hear in this one:

• What disenfranchised grief actually means — and why pet loss is one of its biggest, most overlooked forms
• What fifteen years in vet ER looks like from the inside — and why grief literacy training for veterinary teams matters so much
• Compassion fatigue: what it actually is (and why it's not the same as burnout), and the org Not One More Vet fighting to support vet professionals
• Courtney's story of losing Rooster during the pandemic — and arriving at a locked ER door at 2am, sobbing, saying "I'm coming"
• "We don't move on. We move with." — what honoring grief actually looks like
• What NOT to say to a grieving person — and what to say instead when you genuinely don't know what to say
• Curly Sue — Lindsay's new rescue from Richmond Animal League, who weighs almost exactly what Jack weighed, and only wants to be held
• Weighted Angels, a volunteer organization making weighted stuffed animals for parents who leave the hospital without their baby
• Lady Chunk's live cameo (the cat had opinions and made them known)
• Human names for animals: Alan, Susan, Patricia, Gary, Frank — we stand by all of it
• And the grocery store pasta sauce incident, which is one of the best grief stories we've ever heard on this show

Lindsay's tagline is a Ram Dass quote: "We are all just walking each other home." By the end of this episode, you'll understand exactly why.

📎 Find Lindsay & Resources Mentioned:

• 🌿 EverKin Pet Loss Support: EverkinPetLoss.com
• 📲 Instagram: @EverkinPetLoss
• 💙 Not One More Vet: nomv.org
• 🤍 Weighted Angels: https://www.weightedangels.com/

Lindsay's books reopen June 1st — if you or someone you love needs support, now's the time to reach out.

💌 Have a story about a plan that went sideways? We want to hear it. Reach out at thatwasnttheplanpod@gmail.com

📲 Find us on Instagram | TikTok | YouTube — search @thatwasnttheplan_podcast

🐾 If this episode moved you, please subscribe, leave a review, and pass it along to anyone who's ever loved an animal — or a person — and been told to just get over it.

And as always — whatever plan you had? We're glad you're here anyway. 🥂

Support the show

Los Angeles, as it turns out, is less a city and more a series of increasingly poor decisions strung together by sunshine.

This week, Courtney shares a perfectly normal collection of experiences: flagging down her own mugger, accepting a ride from a man who openly admits to past home invasions, being called a “loser” by a spiritual-looking stranger, and—naturally—being offered a glimpse of someone’s testicles before breakfast. 

There is crime. There is confusion. There is alarming optimism.

And against all odds, she survives all of it.

A masterclass in what not to do—and why it somehow makes for excellent storytelling.

Support the show

What happens when you grow up in a deeply religious household where sex is forbidden, masturbation is sinful, and heaven is apparently keeping score?

You wait.

This week we’re joined by our brilliant friend Sarah Beth Schooley Wood—champion swimmer, Antarctica bride, and (for a surprisingly long time) a very committed virgin.

We talk purity culture, religious guilt, awkward first times, late blooming, and the strange realization that maybe… sex isn’t actually a moral emergency.

There are penguins.
 There is back hair discourse.
 There are some truly questionable decisions involving condoms.

And somewhere in the middle of it all: honesty, laughter, and a reminder that everyone arrives at their own timeline.

Support the show

What begins as a chic business-class flight to Italy (because we’re grown now) quickly devolves into a transatlantic U-turn, a missing suitcase, an Amtrak sprint through Washington, D.C., a possibly intoxicated Uber driver declaring “Ma’am, I’m gonna get you there,” and approximately fourteen emotional breakdowns.

There are trains. There are planes. There is public weeping. There is emergency lingerie purchased at JFK.

And somehow—miraculously—there is also Italy.

This week, Emily recounts the 48-hour odyssey that proves three things:

1. You don’t need that much luggage.
2. Always keep the Xanax.
3. Lean into the chaos. It makes for better stories.

Buckle up. Or don’t. It won’t matter.

Support the show

At 22, Matt Holland dove into shallow water, broke his neck, and immediately knew something was very wrong. 

This episode has it all: lake house chaos, a midnight helicopter ride, ICU absurdity, fingers-in-the-butt medical exams, and erections. 

It’s funny. It’s uncomfortable. It’s very honest. And it’s about what happens when your body stops—but your will doesn’t.

Support the show

This week, Colleen Heiber joins us to discuss being left before the wedding… and almost leaving someone herself. Six weeks out. Invitations printed. Rose petals purchased. Dumpster involved.

We talk red flags, baby fever (and losing it), jam bands, online dating in your late 30s, youth-pastor energy, and the radical act of asking, “Are you sure?”

It’s funny. It’s brutal. It’s hopeful. It’s proof that sometimes the altar isn’t the ending — it’s the escape hatch.

Very much not the plan.

Support the show

What begins as a casual conversation about hair drifts, quite naturally, into fake fangs, missing teeth, addiction, dentures, dental debt, sobriety, and one impressively pragmatic trip to Mexico shortly after losing all top teeth. It’s painful, absurd, and unexpectedly funny—a story about shame, survival, and rebuilding a smile without the benefit of enamel. Dental insurance, as ever, is the real villain. Teeth optional.

Support the show

Bed bugs: not a moral failing, not a cleanliness issue, and definitely not part of the plan. This week, we’re joined by Dr. Dini Miller—Virginia Tech professor, urban entomology legend, and all-around badass—to talk what bed bugs actually are, how people really get them, why panic makes everything worse, and what actually works. Equal parts horrifying, hilarious, and strangely comforting. Lint rollers encouraged.

Support the show

Just because children never blessed our loins doesn't mean we don't kinda like them. Well, we do, and we don't. 

Babies, motherhood, and the quiet panic of doing life “wrong.” In Not My Circus, Emily and Courtney talk being child-free by choice, by chance, and by biology—with honesty, dark humor, rockin’ nipples, and zero judgment. A conversation about listening to your own small voice, loving the life you actually have, and accepting that not everyone is meant to run the same circus.

Show Notes:
In this episode of 'That Wasn't the Plan,' hosts Emily White and Courtney Holland explore the complexities of motherhood, personal choices, and the unexpected turns life takes. They reflect on their childhood experiences, discuss the societal pressures surrounding motherhood, and share their thoughts on love and relationships. The conversation delves into the joys and challenges of blending families and the importance of personal growth in navigating these dynamics. With humor and honesty, they address the realities of parenting and the diverse paths women take in their lives. In this conversation, Courtney and Emily explore the complexities of love, heartbreak, and the dynamics of family relationships. They discuss the joys and challenges of being involved with children, societal expectations surrounding parenthood, and the unique struggles faced by single parents. The conversation also delves into the importance of self-acceptance and personal growth, as well as the impact of teachers on children's lives. Ultimately, they emphasize the significance of listening to one's heart and making choices that align with personal values.

Takeaways

Courtney never felt a strong desire for children, filling her life with wild experiences instead.

Emily has no maternal instinct and never felt the urge to have children.

Both hosts acknowledge the societal pressure to become mothers and the guilt that can accompany it.

They discuss the concept of true love and how it can exist outside of traditional motherhood.

Courtney reflects on her nurturing nature towards animals and people, despite not having children.

Emily emphasizes the importance of personal choice in motherhood and the acceptance of different paths.

They share humorous anecdotes about their childhood play and how it shaped their views on parenting.

The conversation highlights the challenges of blending families and the adjustments required.

Both hosts express gratitude for their current lives without children, valuing their freedom and independence.

They conclude with reflections on the importance of being true to oneself in the face of societal expectations.  Courtney experienced heartbreak when she fell in love with a partner's children.

Emily shares her joy in seeing a partner's relationship with his kids.

Societal expectations often pressure women regarding motherhood.

Single parents face immense challenges and deserve recognition.

Teachers play a crucial role in shaping young minds despite the challenges they face.

Self-acceptance is a journey that enhances personal growth.

Listening to one's heart is essential in making life choices.

The conversation highlights the importance of being true to oneself.

Parenting is a significant responsibility that should be carefully considered.

Both speakers emphasize the joy and challenges of family dynamics. 

Support the show

Courtney’s original life plan was simple: keep drinking, keep using, quietly disappear. Sobriety was not the plan — but it turned out to be the thing that gave her a bigger, funnier, fuller life than she ever imagined. In this episode, we talk addiction, shame, strawberries, bad decisions, dark humor, and why getting sober didn’t end her life — it finally gave her a life worth living. 

Show Notes:
Summary

The conversation delves into the personal struggles of addiction, highlighting the impact of choices made during this time. Courtney shares her experiences with theft and dishonesty, particularly in relation to her family, and reflects on the consequences of her actions.

Takeaways

Courtney openly admits to stealing money during her addiction.

She reflects on a specific incident of stealing from her niece's piggy bank.

The act of claiming to be a designated driver while being drunk illustrates her struggles.

Addiction often leads to low points in personal integrity.

Family relationships can be deeply affected by addiction and dishonesty.

Courtney's story emphasizes the importance of honesty in recovery.

The conversation sheds light on the emotional turmoil associated with addiction.

Consequences of addiction can manifest in various forms, including theft.

Courtney's experiences serve as a cautionary tale for others.

The discussion highlights the need for support and understanding in recovery journeys.

Chapters

00:00 The Struggles of Addiction

00:20 Consequences of Choices

Support the show

Both Emily and Courtney have had their run-ins with homelessness—sometimes more than once. This week, we delve into what it’s like to live without a roof over your head—and the bizarre blend of humor, humility, and resilience that comes with it. The little moments, the quiet dignity, and the unexpected things you discover about yourself when stability takes a hike. Honest, imperfect, and somehow more human—and maybe a little funnier—than we thought.

Show Notes:

Takeaways
Courtney dressed as The Jesus from The Big Lebowski for Halloween.
She was surprised that no one recognized her costume.
The conversation highlights the cultural impact of movies on Halloween choices.

Summary

In this light-hearted segment, Courtney shares her Halloween experience dressing as The Jesus from The Big Lebowski, expressing her surprise at the lack of recognition from others regarding her costume.

Titles

The Big Lebowski Halloween Costume Surprise
Cultural References in Halloween Costumes

Sound bites

"Nobody knew who I was."
"It went."
"Get out."

Chapters

00:00 The Emotional Farewell to Kiki

Support the show

(Fair warning: Emily's mouth was fully uncensored this episode — blame the tech gremlins. Also, our earrings nearly derailed the whole thing. You'll hear it. We kept it in.)

This week, Emily's co-host Courtney Holland is out due to an emergency — but honestly, today's guest doesn't need a wingman. Hilary Morris Pawlik has been Emily's ride-or-die since the eighth grade, and she shows up today to talk about something that affects 1 in 10 women and yet somehow remains one of the most underdiagnosed, underfunded, and dismissed conditions in medicine: endometriosis.

Hilary is a professional dancer, award-winning choreographer, and co-director of Artist Entrance Dance Company in Los Angeles. She's performed with The Hollywood Pinup Girls and the Mental Head Circus vaudeville show, and she's basically done everything short of the Iditarod. But today, she's here to tell a different kind of story — the one about years of painful periods, fertility struggles, a missed diagnosis, a baseball-sized cyst, sepsis, and an emergency surgery that revealed her organs had started fusing together.

What they cover:

• What endometriosis actually is (and why so many women — and their doctors — have no idea)
• The surprisingly wide range of symptoms, from painful periods to shortness of breath, leg pain, and GI issues
• Medical gaslighting: being told you're not in "enough" pain to have endo
• IVF, a uterine septum, and the winding road to becoming a mom
• Going from "watch and wait" to hospitalized with sepsis — while her husband was in Thailand
• The surgeon who quite literally saved her life (Dr. Richard Freeman at the Disney Cancer Center in Burbank)
• Why your regular OB/GYN may not be equipped to handle this — and where to find a specialist
• The Huberman Lab episode with Dr. Thaïs Aliabadi that every woman should listen to
• A Long Island research study actively enrolling women who haven't been diagnosed yet — and why that matters
• The hormonal birth control decision Hilary resisted and then reversed — and why she's so glad she did
• Community, support groups, and why both Emily and Hilary swear by themIf you have a uterus, know someone who does, or you're just a decent human who believes women deserve better healthcare — this episode is for you.

📎 Resources mentioned:

• 🎙️ Huberman Lab — "Female Hormone Health, PCOS, Endometriosis, Fertility & Breast Cancer" ft. Dr. Thaïs Aliabadi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMzfGZnaPN8
• 🔬 ROSE Research Study (Northwell Health / Feinstein Institutes) — endometriosis research enrolling participants: https://feinstein.northwell.edu/institutes-researchers/institute-molecular-medicine/robert-s-boas-center-for-genomics-and-human-genetics/rose-research-outsmarts-endometriosis
• 📲 Find Hilary on Instagram: @hilarypawlik

💌 Have a story about a plan that went sideways? We want to hear it. Reach out to us at thatwasnttheplanpod@gmail.com or www.thatwasnttheplan.com

📲 Find us on Instagram | TikTok | YouTube — search @thatwasnttheplan_podcast

🎧 If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend who needs to hear it. It genuinely helps us grow the show and reach more people.

And as always — whatever plan you had? We're glad you're here anyway. 🥂

Support the show

Friendship breakups: somehow more devastating than romantic ones, and with none of the sympathy cards. In Episode 2, we unpack platonic divorces, alcoholism, bad judgment, recovery, and how two former best friends managed to survive each other long enough to start a podcast. Poor choices were made. 

Show Notes:

Summary

In this episode, Emily and Courtney explore the complexities of platonic friendships, particularly focusing on the challenges and emotional turmoil that can arise when these relationships end. They share personal stories of friendship breakups, the impact of substance abuse on their connections, and the journey of recovery. The conversation delves into the importance of vulnerability, making amends, and the evolving nature of friendships as life circumstances change. They also discuss the healing power of friendship and the significance of reaching out for support during difficult times.

Takeaways

Everybody acts like they know exactly what's going on.

Friendship breakups can be as painful as romantic ones.

Substance abuse can severely impact friendships.

Recovery can change the dynamics of relationships.

Making amends is crucial for personal growth.

Friendships can evolve and change over time.

It's important to communicate openly in friendships.

Vulnerability can strengthen connections with others.

Letting go of past relationships is a part of healing.

New friendships can bring joy and fulfillment.

Sound bites

"I would date me?"

"I would love to date me."

"It'd be nice to hear from people."

Chapters

00:00 Navigating Post-Production Challenges

03:06 The Evolution of Platonic Friendships

06:00 Friendship Breakups: Personal Stories

08:44 Consequences of Substance Abuse on Friendships

11:50 The Impact of Recovery on Relationships

14:48 Friendship Dynamics in Recovery

17:47 The Complexity of Friendship Endings

20:52 Reconnecting After Years Apart

23:39 The Role of Apologies in Friendships

26:47 The Healing Power of Friendship

29:40 Making Amends and Moving Forward

32:44 The Shift in Friendships with Life Changes

35:43 Finding Joy in New Connections

38:11 The Importance of Vulnerability in Friendships

41:01 Letting Go of Past Relationships

43:59 The Journey of Friendship and Support

47:02 Listener Engagement and Sharing Stories

Support the show

Courtney asks Emily shallow questions about her breast cancer. We laugh and get real. It's not a joke until you wake up with a soul patch downstairs. 

Show Notes:

Summary

In this episode, Emily White shares her personal journey of being diagnosed with breast cancer, detailing the emotional and physical challenges she faced. From the initial discovery of a lump to navigating the medical system, the support from family and friends, and the impact of chemotherapy, Emily's story is one of resilience and strength. She reflects on the importance of having a support system and the emotional toll of her diagnosis and treatment. In this conversation, Emily White shares her journey through cancer treatment, detailing the emotional and physical challenges she faced during chemotherapy and radiation. She discusses the dark period of recovery, the importance of support from friends, and the unexpected connections she made along the way. The conversation also touches on the difficulties of dating after cancer and the lessons learned about friendships and personal growth. Ultimately, Emily emphasizes the significance of actionable support for those going through similar experiences and the importance of finding humor and light in dark times.

Takeaways

Emily was diagnosed with two types of breast cancer.

She initially dismissed a dent in her breast as normal.

Support from family and friends was crucial during her journey.

Navigating the medical system was challenging and frustrating.

The emotional impact of the diagnosis was profound.

She experienced a range of emotions from fear to determination.

Chemotherapy brought significant physical and emotional challenges.

Having a support system made a difference in her recovery.

Emily's story highlights the importance of early detection.

She learned to embrace the support of loved ones during tough times. The emotional toll of cancer treatment can linger long after the physical treatments end.

Support from friends can make a significant difference during recovery.

It's common for friends to drift away during long-term illness, leaving patients feeling isolated.

Recovery from cancer can be more challenging than the treatment itself.

Finding unexpected connections can provide hope and encouragement during tough times.

Dating after cancer can be a daunting experience, requiring self-discovery and healing.

Letting go of toxic relationships can be a positive outcome of a life-altering experience.

Actionable support is more effective than asking what someone needs during their recovery.

Humor can be a powerful coping mechanism during difficult times.

Personal growth often comes from facing and overcoming life's challenges

Sound bites

"It does a number on your brain."

"I had to go fund me, thank God."

"Just do, just do it."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Journey

01:00 Emily's Cancer Diagnosis

05:47 The Emotional Rollercoaster

10:57 Navigating Medical Appointments

15:42 Family Dynamics and Support

20:39 Surgery and Treatment Decisions

25:36 The Impact of Chemotherapy

26:13 The Journey Begins: Chemo and Its Effects

30:34 The Hair Loss Experience: A Personal Story

33:34 Support Systems: Friends and Family During Treatment

38:22 Radiation and Recovery: The Next Steps

44:19 Life After Cancer: The Struggles of Recovery

48:10 Self-Discovery and Personal Growth

51:03 Navigating Relationships and Friendships

53:08 Reflections on Life in Los Angeles

56:49 Support Systems During Tough Times

59:53 The Importance of Actionable Help

01:03:58 Lighthearted Moments and Humor in Recovery

Support the show

Are you ready to laugh, cry, and cringe at life's hilarious messes? Well then, you're in the perfect spot. Join Emily and Courtney as they discuss the chaotic moments that threw us off course, screwed up our day, made us leap with joy, and helped us grow. 

Rein in your kids, pop some popcorn, and diaper your dog. We're about to jump in. 

Support the show

Most of us learned to look at our bodies and immediately catalog what's wrong with them. Too big. Too small. Too much. Not enough. Wasting away. Filling out. The wrong shape for the wrong season for the wrong man's opinion.

This week, we're trying something else.

Two world-class athletes — ice mermaid and U.S. record holder Melissa Kegler and former NCAA swimmer Sarah Beth Wood — sit down with us to talk about what it's actually like to live in a body that's been measured, weighed, commented on, and critiqued for as long as they can remember. Not by strangers on the internet. By coaches. Teammates. Parents. Other women. The lady on the beach who told Melissa she'd need to "slim down to keep a man like that."

Melissa tells the story of being told she was too heavy in September and too thin in March of the same year — nothing changed except there wasn't a Wendy's in her college town. Sarah Beth talks about the eating disorder she didn't know she had until her body literally stopped working mid-race. Courtney shares getting boobs in fifth grade and spending decades convinced they meant she was fat. And we all reckon with the moment a friend (or a stranger, or a coach, or a parent) said something about our bodies that we still hear in our heads twenty-plus years later.

But here's the reframe  — courtesy of Melissa's friend Randy, who said:

Stop looking at a body and asking what it can't do. Look at it and ask what it's capable of.

That one sentence rewires everything. Your body isn't a problem to solve. It's not a before picture. It's the thing that's carried you through every hard thing you've survived — and it's still here.

Plus: 25 cat condos, the Wendy's spicy chicken sandwich that ended a swim career, why "you look like you're having fun" might be the best compliment you can give a stranger.

Two things can be true. Usually they are.

This one is for anyone who's ever stood in front of a mirror and listed everything wrong. Spoiler: there's nothing wrong. There's just a body. And it can do a lot more than you've been giving it credit for.

Just because it wasn't the plan doesn't mean it wasn't supposed to happen.

📬 thatwasnttheplanpod@gmail.com 🌐 thatwasnttheplan.com

Support the show

Carrie Edwards bought a lottery ticket online (against her Army buddy's advice), let ChatGPT pick her numbers (also against his advice), forgot she'd opted into a second draw, and won $150,000.

Then she gave every cent of it away. And $42,000 more out of her own pocket to cover the taxes.

The story went viral worldwide — Tamron Hall, Inside Edition, Fox News, Korean headlines at her nail salon. An estimated 6 billion media impressions. And she got there by calling the Virginia Lottery's PR team herself and pitching them on a press conference.

Sitting alone at her kitchen island, she heard a voice — clear as if someone were standing next to her — say it's not your money. And she listened.

The money went to three places: AFTD (in honor of her late husband Steve, her best friend of 47 years, who was at the Pentagon on 9/11 and later died of frontotemporal degeneration), Shalom Farms (the food justice nonprofit in Richmond that healed her hands-in-the-dirt back to life), and the Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society (in honor of her dad, Captain Peter Swanson, a Navy fighter pilot — whose wife, by the way, took the kids to peacefully protest the Vietnam War while he was flying missions over it).

This one moved us. We talk about the still small voice and how to actually hear it. The Army friend who's now taking full credit for her windfall (of course, he is). What it's like to lose your favorite person slowly, and then all at once. And how Steve walked their daughter Kelly down the hallway to get married two weeks before he died.

Plus: why your tax dollars aren't feeding active-duty military families, why Mark Nepo's The Book of Awakening should be on everyone's nightstand, and Carrie's quiet rule for life — reach behind you and bring the next one in line.

You may have caught the headlines. This is the part they didn't tell you.

Donate where Carrie did: 🧠 AFTD — theaftd.org 🌱 Shalom Farms — shalomfarms.org ⚓ Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society — nmcrs.org

Just because it wasn't the plan doesn't mean it wasn't supposed to happen.

📬 thatwasnttheplanpod@gmail.com 🌐 thatwasnttheplan.com

Support the show

Last week, Melissa Kegler said she was going to get her record back.

This week, the universe said, we’ll see about that.

What follows is five months of waiting for water that is somehow both too warm and too frozen, a logistical nightmare involving flights, storms, dams, and one very specific 24-hour window where everything finally (and briefly) aligns. 

It is, by all accounts, the worst swim of her life.

Naturally, she does it anyway.

There’s something quietly unhinged about preparing your body for hypothermia on a biweekly basis, dragging friends and coworkers into the chaos, and then—when it finally happens—thinking, “This feels terrible. I might die. Let’s keep going.”

And yet.

Somewhere between the near-bail, the dead-man float (briefly considered, quickly abandoned), and a very well-earned post-swim pizza, Melissa figures out exactly what she’s capable of—and, more importantly, how she wants to do it next time.

Also: hypothermia. Surprisingly...fun??? 

Support the show

There are people who set goals.
 And then there’s Melissa Kegler—who hears a mildly unhinged suggestion and thinks, yes, that seems reasonable.

In Part 1, we trace the origin story: from pool swimmer to open water wanderer, to casually knocking out the Triple Crown (Catalina, the English Channel, Manhattan… as one does). Along the way: crocodile-adjacent panic, questionable water conditions, dolphins, bioluminescence, and just enough vomiting to keep things grounded.

It’s a story about curiosity, momentum, and the dangerous power of someone asking, “Have you ever thought about…?”

Unfortunately, someone did.

And next week, it gets cold.

Support the show

Courtney's tooth fell out again. Emily's hair is orange. Sarah Beth's pit bull has a pink belly. We're off.

Somewhere in the middle of all that, we talk about Rosemary — Courtney's dear friend, gone two years this week. She spent her life helping traumatized kids and reminded us that hurt people don't just hurt people. Hurt people heal people.

Then it gets weird (weirder?). We cover:

• Why every woman should embrace being called a bitch (hint: it just means you have a backbone)
• Sarah Beth's theory that not wanting to pet her dog makes you a bad person (retracted, sort of)
• Emily's hair falling out in clumps 
• How to actually like yourself (Courtney Googled it — we'll share the results)
• Clay Play™ — which is, allegedly, pottery

Plus: why your fallopians go feral around baby animals

No agenda. No plan. Three women, like eight dogs, one squirrel, and a HOT TAKE!

Warning: Contains one unsolicited dog vasectomy offer

📬 thatwasnttheplanpod@gmail.com 🌐 thatwasnttheplan.com

Just because it wasn't the plan doesn't mean it wasn't supposed to happen.

Support the show

This week, we dispense wisdom. Some of it useful. Some of it… less so.

From brain candy books and existential dread to air fryer eggs, dry skin trauma, and the radical notion of simply not giving up, Emily and Courtney share the life advice they’ve collected, ignored, rediscovered, and occasionally weaponised.

There are thoughts on fear, presence, kindness, and why you should probably talk to your knees. Also: why teenagers don’t know how keys work, and why calm might be a superpower (unconfirmed).

Take what you need. Leave what you don’t.
 We’re all just doing our best.

Support the show

This week, we sit down with my friend Jen Quam Howell (JQ), who—on an otherwise unremarkable night—was woken up by her husband with the words no one prepares for: “The house is on fire. We have to go.”

What follows is exactly what you’d expect and nothing like you’d expect.

Three young kids. One terrifying exit down a burning staircase. A total loss. A hotel room that becomes “hometel.” And a community that quietly, relentlessly shows up—with spreadsheets, sweatpants, and the occasional replacement bra.

We talk about what happens in the immediate aftermath of losing everything, the strange logistics of starting over, and the long tail of trauma that doesn’t politely disappear once the house is rebuilt.

It’s about resilience, yes. But more than that, it’s about people—neighbors, friends, family—who step in when life goes completely off-script.

Equal parts devastating, darkly funny, and unexpectedly hopeful.

Because sometimes the plan burns down.
 And you build something anyway.

Support the show

(We open with Courtney's puppy accidentally getting marijuana poisoning. This is relevant because it sets the tone perfectly for an episode about a man whose life has taken approximately seventeen unexpected turns.)

This week's guest is Richard Ault — and his coworkers call him the most interesting person in the world. After about ten minutes, Emily and Courtney stopped arguing with that assessment.

Richard is a biologist by training, a technologist by accident, and a high school teacher by something that can only be described as the universe intervening at exactly the right moment. His story runs from a latchkey childhood in Bethesda, Maryland to the Arctic tundra, from a rooftop party in San Francisco that accidentally launched his tech career to the inside of Napster during one of the most chaotic moments in music industry history — and then back down: addiction, bankruptcy, almost moving into his car, and finally, improbably, joyfully, back into a classroom.

He's been sober for 13 years. He hiked to nearly 12,000 feet with his students two weeks ago. His favorite band is Tool. He is exactly who he appears to be.

Richard's closing answer to "what's the kindest thing anyone's ever done for you?" might be the best we've ever gotten on this show.

"It's stupid and corny, but — that wasn't the plan." — Richard Ault, nailing it.

💌 Have a story, a question, or something you want to share? Email us at thatwasnttheplanpod@gmail.com or visit us at thatwasnttheplan.com

📲 Find us on Instagram | TikTok | YouTube — search @thatwasnttheplan_podcast

🎧 If this episode moved you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs to hear that the bottom isn't the end of the story.

That wasn't the plan, and we will talk to you next week. K bye. 🥂

Support the show

This week's guest, Jonathan Fitzgerald, showed up with a life story that none of us were fully prepared for.

Jonathan grew up the middle child of ten in Sarasota, Florida, in a family that could only be described as a force of nature. His parents — both only children, for the record — moved to Virginia to help found a Bible college and wound up with 48 grandchildren. His father delivered seven of the ten kids at home after reading nine books on childbirth, built a prototype birthing chair in his garage, and tried to patent it. Nobody roasted him at his 50th birthday party because everyone was too busy crying about how much they love him.

Jonathan's life goal since his teenage years was simple: be an amazing husband, be an amazing father, have as many children as possible. He did all of that. And then the 2008 housing crash wiped out his painting business, his marriage unraveled under the weight of financial stress and lost communication, and he found himself — sober, broke, and completely on his own — raising five kids between the ages of two and sixteen while working 7 to 5 for someone else and coaching two of them in football.

He never missed a practice.

"I've got way more content." — Jonathan Fitzgerald. He's coming back.

💌 Got a story you want to share? We'd love to hear it. Reach us at thatwasnttheplanpod@gmail.com or visit thatwasnttheplan.com

📲 Find us on Instagram | TikTok | YouTube — search @thatwasnttheplan podcast

🎧 If this one made you laugh, cry, or call your dad — subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs it.

That wasn't the plan, and we will talk to you next week. K bye. 🥂

Support the show