Explore every episode of the podcast Telco in 20

Everyone has an opinion about how telcos are doing with AI. Almost nobody has evidence—until now. Guy Daniels, chief strategy officer and content director at TelecomTV, spent the year compiling the AI-Native Telco Index—the first 100% evidence-based report on telco AI adoption. It’s one piece of TelecomTV’s new AI-Native Telco Accelerator (ANTA), a community built to bring operators, vendors, and standards bodies together to share what’s actually working in our industry. 

I sat down with Guy to talk about what his research reveals, how ANTA works, and what’s coming at the AI-Native Telco Forum in Düsseldorf this September.

Listen now to hear:

• What ANTA is, and the three pieces that make it run [04:21];
• Which operators are doing impressive AI work [08:01];
• Why so many telcos keep their best AI work hidden [09:08]; and
• The “AI in telco” myth that Guy’s research debunks [13:44].

Links and Resources: 

• Read TelecomTV’s AI-Native Telco Accelerator (ANTA) announcement, the community launched to help operators move from AI pilots to deployments that actually scale.
• Learn more about ANTA and the AI-Native Telco Index—the first evidence-based read on how 56 operators are scaling AI. The members-only report drops this September at the Forum in Düsseldorf.
• Join the conversation! Book your spot at the AI-Native Telco Forum, September 8 and 9 in Düsseldorf.
• Learn how the Totogi Ontology keeps every AI decision in one governed model, so you can show which rule fired and why. It’s exactly the kind of real-world deployment ANTA is tracking. Watch it run at our demo pod in Düsseldorf or set up a meeting with Team Totogi.
• Catch up on the AI breakthroughs I rattle off at the top of the show:
  • Anthropic’s “When AI builds itself” report lays out how AI now writes most of its own code and runs unsupervised for hours, even days.
  • Fortune’s write-up covers how Claude Fable 5 helped disprove the 87-year-old Jacobian conjecture.
• Explore the two operators that Guy singles out as pace-setters:
  • Read about Deutsche Telekom’s march toward AI-native and the customer-facing bot that’s posting published results.
  • Check out Orange, which is putting AI at the center of its strategy and briefing investors on it, something almost no other telco does.
• Watch my keynote and panel from last year’s AI-Native Telco Forum, where a room of operators told me you can’t vibe code a carrier-grade BSS—so we built one live that day.
• See what Totogi shipped in Düsseldorf last year: 617,000 lines of production code, generated live, all captured in this LinkedIn recap.
• Go deeper in my blog, “Düsseldorf changed everything for BSS,” on why the use case is never the moat.
• Want an invite to the Totogi party while you’re at the AI-Native Telco Forum? Stop by our demo pod, or DM me on LinkedIn or X at @TelcoDR for more information.
• Speaking of parties, cue up some of the greatest ever put on film to help you prepare for a good time: the house party in Eddie Murphy’s Trading Places, the night that spirals in Bachelor Party, the rager that leaves the house a mess in Sixteen Candles, and the granddaddy party movie of them all, The Hangover. (Warning: explicit scenes, but they’re epic so I’m putting them in the show notes anyway!)
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know.
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve won 2026, 2025, and 2024 Hermes Creative Awards, and 2025 and 2024 MarCom Awards. We are also recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes seconds to do in your app and really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Guy Daniels is chief strategy officer and content director at TelecomTV, where he leads editorial strategy across the company’s events, including the DSP Leaders World Forum, the Great Telco Debate, and the AI-Native Telco Forum. He recently launched ANTA, the AI-Native Telco Accelerator—TelecomTV’s industry-backed initiative uniting operators, vendors, and industry bodies to help telcos move from AI experimentation to real-world deployment. A pioneer of online video in telecoms, Guy co-founded Decisive Media and TelecomTV in 2001 after a decade in telecoms publishing.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

It’s hard to manage a network in space. That constraint shapes everything Dr. Mariam Kaynia thinks about as chief data and information officer at Eutelsat, Europe’s only LEO alternative to Starlink in orbit today. The company runs more than 600 satellites at 1,200 kilometers alongside a geostationary fleet parked even higher. When Eutelsat launches a satellite, the intelligence running it has to be right before it leaves the ground: self-calibrating, self-healing, and autonomous by design, not by choice.

I sat down with Mariam to unpack why satellite is becoming core connectivity instead of the backup layer, how Eutelsat federated its data platforms instead of ripping them out, and where AI decisions should—and should NOT—live inside an operator.

Listen now to hear:

• Where satellite fits in telco connectivity strategy [04:03];
• Why Eutelsat connected its data platforms [06:47];
• The customization trap—and knowing when to say no [08:49]; and
• Four guardrails for AI—including one everyone overlooks [13:25].

Links and Resources:

• See how Eutelsat delivers a “mobile network from the sky” with higher speeds and lower latency.
• Read about the next-generation sovereign constellation Eutelsat has filed for, its sovereignty and critical-infrastructure play.
• Explore the TM Forum Catalyst Team Awards, where Eutelsat’s multi-orbit AI prototype won the “Tech for Good” award. Then learn about the SATCOM with an Edge – Phase III project behind that win, championed by Airbus, Bell Canada, Eutelsat, and MTN Nigeria.
• Track Eutelsat’s OneWeb LEO constellation in real time, the fleet that has to keep itself alive once it’s in orbit.
• Learn how Eutelsat is connecting remote communities across Greenland, where population density can’t cover the cost of terrestrial networks.
• Read my blog “Where do decisions live?,” which argues that decisions belong in an ontology, not at inference time, where they hallucinate at scale.
• Want AI that can explain itself? Check out the Totogi Ontology, which keeps decisions in one governed model so you can show which rule fired and why.
• Mariam and I got into the challenge of being working parents with big jobs. Read two of my recommendations on the topic, Anne-Marie Slaughter’s 2012 Atlantic essay “Why Women Still Can’t Have It All” on fixing broken workplaces and Sheryl Sandberg’s “Lean In” on the importance of personal ambition.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know.
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve won 2026, 2025, and 2024 Hermes Creative Awards, and 2025 and 2024 MarCom Awards. We are also recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes seconds to do in your app and really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Mariam Kaynia is Eutelsat’s chief data and information officer and a member of the group’s Executive Committee. She oversees IT, data, and AI for the group. She brings extensive telecommunications expertise from VP roles at Telefónica Germany, where she led digital transformation, strategy, and data analytics, and from her time as an associate partner at McKinsey & Company. Named among the Top 50 Women in Technology in Germany, she holds a Ph.D. in Wireless Communications and Electrical Engineering from the Norwegian University of Science and Technology.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

What does it actually take to become an AI-first telco? Swisscom is finding out. It has launched the biggest transformation program in its history: a ground-up rebuild of the software core behind its consumer and enterprise business units.

In this episode, I sit down with Mark Düsener, chief technology and information officer at Swisscom, to unpack how the operator is doing it. We get into why standardization is the new differentiation, why you can’t be agentic without a brain, and how Swisscom is converting the know-how of its hero engineers—critical talent at telcos—into skills everyone can use.

Listen now to hear:

• Why data is the “brain” AI needs [05:17];
• How Swisscom is collapsing its systems into one platform [07:51];
• Mark’s rule for killing technical debt [12:14]; and
• How to bring your experts along when AI codifies what they know [12:49].

Links and Resources:

• Read Swisscom CEO Christoph Aeschlimann’s LinkedIn post about why telcos have to reinvent themselves at the core, not just the edge.
• Listen to Mark’s interview on the TM Forum podcast. He talks about how Swisscom is using AI to move to an open, composable architecture, even across applications still tied to legacy systems.
• Tired of knowledge staying locked inside your experts’ heads? Read Anthropic’s explainer on Agent Skills, the codified, reusable expertise Mark wants his "heroes" to package so any agent or colleague can call it.
• Learn how the Totogi Ontology sits over your mainframe, BSS, and network systems so they all speak one language, letting you retire one legacy system at a time instead of betting on a multi-year rip and replace.
• Interested in the underlying architecture for becoming AI-first? I’ve written three blogs on this topic:
  • “You built a data lake. You needed a river” about why AI needs an ontology close to your live systems so it can act, not just report.
  • “Nail your AI architecture” about why business logic doesn’t belong inside your agents.
  • “Where do decisions live?” about the board-level question of where decisions should be made in an AI-native telco.
• Mark’s go-to dish is filet with asparagus and béarnaise. Béarnaise is the sauce home cooks fear most, a temperamental combination of egg yolks and butter that breaks the second you stop whisking. I attempted it and produced something I’d rather not describe. If you want to try it, watch culinary icons Julia Child, Jacques Pépin, and Martha Stewart make béarnaise together in this TV clip from 1999.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know.
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve won 2026, 2025, and 2024 Hermes Creative Awards, and 2025 and 2024 MarCom Awards. We are also recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes seconds to do in your app and really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Mark Düsener is chief technology & information officer (CTIO) at Swisscom and a member of the Executive Committee, Swisscom Switzerland. He leads the IT, Network & Infrastructure division and drives the modernization of Switzerland’s network landscape as part of Swisscom’s TelCo to TechCo journey. His focus includes advancing Switzerland’s best and smartest network across fixed and mobile, expanding 5G and preparing for 6G, while driving the transformation towards automated, software-driven networks and an AI-driven Swisscom. He joined Swisscom in November 2020 and most recently led the Mobile Network, Mobile Services & B2B Telco unit. Prior to Swisscom, he was managing director of Deutsche Telekom Healthcare Solutions GmbH and held various leadership roles at Vodafone Germany.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Every telco has a system it can’t get rid of—a mainframe, a billing platform, a vendor with hooks in everything. The transformation math is brutal: years of work, massive investment, and a failure rate that makes every next attempt harder to sell internally.

Carlos Moreno Alonso is CTIO at TDC Brands, Denmark’s largest telecom provider. Nine months into the job, he’s leading the next phase of one of Europe’s biggest IT transformations—including wrestling with a decades-old mainframe that the former CEO called "a dragon in the basement." He talks about inheriting a transformation mid-flight and what strategies actually work when your legacy system is too entangled to rip out. 

Listen now to hear:

• How TDC got its consumer business onto a modern stack [03:58];
• Carlos’s two-part plan for the harder B2B side [06:45];
• Where AI actually speeds migration [07:56]; and
• The phase of transformation that is the heaviest lift [09:32].

Links and Resources:

• Read the announcement that Nuuday is now TDC Brands, which unites six brands—YouSee, TDC Erhverv, Telmore, Hiper, eesy, and Relatel—under one 145-year-old name.
• Learn how TDC Brands brought Carlos on board as CTIO to lead the next phase of its digital transformation project.
• Read the story behind “the dragon in the basement,” a phrase coined by former Nuuday CEO Jon James at DTW 2022. It describes the decades-old Columbus mainframe as a beast that needs to be “fed and watered and constantly checked to make sure it’s still breathing.”
• Ready to slay your own dragon? Learn how the Totogi Ontology sits over your mainframe, BSS, and network systems so they speak one language, letting you retire one legacy system at a time.
• Check out the live World Cup standings as the tournament plays out across North America. When we recorded, I was pulling for Mexico, and Carlos was backing Spain. As of this episode's release, England knocked Mexico out, but Spain squeaked past Portugal to move into the quarterfinals. Looks like Carlos gets the bragging rights—for now.
• Think World Cup stakes are high? Try kids’ soccer. In the 2005 movie Kicking and Screaming, Will Ferrell’s Coach Phil gets so threatened when his assistant (NFL legend Mike Ditka) offers coaching advice that he orders him to fetch a juice box instead. Even the fiercest competitors need to hydrate.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know.
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve won 2026, 2025, and 2024 Hermes Creative Awards, and 2025 and 2024 MarCom Awards. We are also recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes seconds to do in your app and really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Carlos Moreno Alonso is CTIO of TDC Brands in Denmark, where he oversees a 700-person IT organization (employees and subcontractors) and leads the company’s cloud BSS migration and AI-driven automation programs. Over a 25-year career spanning ONO, Vodafone Spain, Vodafone Italy, and Vodafone Group, Carlos has run complex BSS transformation programs, including a four-year platform overhaul at Vodafone Italy and the post-acquisition integration of ONO into Vodafone Spain. He most recently served as CTIO at Adamo.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Telcos love mergers. In 2025 alone, the industry spent nearly $70 billion on M&A, and every single deal brought its own baggage. New systems, new cultures, new tech debt—all bolted onto everything that came before. Everyone celebrates the deal. No one celebrates the hard work of bringing two organizations together.

For this episode, I sit down with Daniel Askeroth, senior vice president of telco at Norlys, the Danish energy and broadband co-op that acquired Telia Denmark in 2024. Daniel spent 17 years at Telia Denmark. Now, he's the one tasked with stitching his old company into Norlys, which is itself the product of 40+ prior mergers. We dig into how he runs the integration without breaking the customer experience, how to unite workforces without losing the people you need most, and what Daniel would do differently if he had to do it all over again.

Listen now to hear:

• Why the people side of mergers takes longer than anyone expects [03:20];
• How Norlys keeps integration invisible to customers [05:08];
• How AI is changing the way Daniel’s teams build [06:48]; and
• What Daniel learned from temporarily stepping into an HR role [11:58].

Links and Resources:

• Read Bain's Telecom M&A: Here Are the Latest Deal Trends Worldwide for the latest on where the industry is placing its bets.
• Learn more about Norlys's $926M acquisition of Telia Denmark and why adding mobile was the missing piece in its full-service play for Danish consumers.
• Check out Daniel’s LinkedIn post about the Norlys leadership role-swap. He traded his telco seat for one in People & Culture for a few days and came back with a different perspective on the business.
• Every merger means bringing together new billing stacks, CRMs, and decades of past decisions. Learn how the Totogi Ontology sits over all those acquired systems so they speak the same language.
• Want to see the Totogi Ontology in action? Catch Team Totogi at DTW Ignite, running June 23-25 in Copenhagen.
• Daniel's kids discovered historical architecture through Pokémon GO, a location-based mobile game that uses your phone's GPS and camera to catch virtual Pokémon at real-world landmarks. Launched in 2016, it peaked at 232 million players and still draws 55 million monthly players and $545M in annual revenue—accidentally tricking a generation into exploring historic landmarks. Who knew Pokémon GO was still going so strong?
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know.
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve won 2026, 2025, and 2024 Hermes Creative Awards, and 2025 and 2024 MarCom Awards. We are also recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes seconds to do in your app and really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Daniel Askeroth is senior vice president of telco at Norlys, a Danish energy and telecoms cooperative. He leads Norlys’ telecom business following the acquisition of Telia Denmark, including the integration and transformation focusing on simplifying systems, aligning cultures, and driving large-scale technology and organizational change.

With over 17 years of experience at Telia Denmark prior to joining Norlys, Daniel brings deep expertise in telecom operations, transformation, and leadership. He is passionate about building strong teams and delivering customer-focused, future-ready connectivity solutions.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Every major telco is racing to claim a piece of the AI infrastructure stack. Operators like Telefónica, Orange, Deutsche Telekom, SoftBank, and TELUS are betting on sovereign clouds, AI factories, and GPU-as-a-service to deliver local data, national compute, and a seat at the AI table. 

Then there's AT&T. In March, it announced AWS Interconnect - last mile: fiber and fixed wireless plugged directly into AWS and engineered for AI workloads. AT&T’s view is that enterprises using AI don't just need more compute—they need flatter networks and faster connections. So it’s betting on the layer it owns outright—the last mile.

In this episode, I'm joined by Shawn Hakl, SVP of product at AT&T Business. We dig into why the operator is partnering with hyperscalers instead of competing with them, the use case where AT&T deployed AI at the edge to cut latency from 110ms to 40ms, and what an "agent-consumable" network actually looks like.

Listen now to hear:

• Why AT&T sees hyperscalers as partners, not rivals [05:18];
• What it takes to put AI into production at telco scale—and lessons learned from AT&T's internal deployment [07:14];
• The edge AI deployment that cut latency from 110ms to 40ms for a live customer [08:45]; and
• What it really means to make a network "agent-consumable" [10:55].

Links and Resources:

• Read the AT&T and AWS announcement on AWS Interconnect - last mile, which brings AT&T's fiber and fixed wireless connectivity directly into AWS environments.
• Learn more about AT&T's edge AI collaboration with Cisco and NVIDIA, which pushes real-time AI inference directly to the network edge.
• AT&T doesn't just sell AI solutions; it runs on them. Learn how Ask AT&T has evolved into a full agentic platform, with more than 100,000 users consuming 27 billion tokens a day and teams building custom AI agents with a drag-and-drop tool.
• Want to scale AI agents without the semantic chaos? Learn how the Totogi Ontology gives AI the business context it needs to discover, act, and execute—so agents stop flying blind.
• Shawn was on the Canadian national luge team, which means he knows a thing or two about commitment once you're flying down the track. Elana Meyers Taylor knows that feeling too! At age 41, in her 5th Olympic appearance, she finally won the Olympic gold medal in women's monobob at Milano Cortina. So, Shawn might be right—stick to the plan!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know.
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve won 2026, 2025, and 2024 Hermes Creative Awards, and 2025 and 2024 MarCom Awards. We are also recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes seconds to do in your app and really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

As the senior vice president of product at AT&T Business, Shawn Hakl is responsible for the portfolio servicing enterprise, public sector, partner, and small business segments, which generates over $30 billion in annual revenue. A seasoned leader in cloud, AI, and communications, Shawn’s unique knowledge of software, security, and infrastructure is helping enterprises, government, and small businesses harness the power of technology to successfully execute on their digital transformation. In his current role, Shawn is responsible for wireline, 5G/wireless, voice/UC, security/SASE, data center, AIOps, and Network-as-a-Service product lines.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Every operator made the same bet—go digital, close stores, turn over distribution to the resellers. Somewhere along the way, they gave away the customer relationship. In the first half of 2025, data usage grew in 92% of markets while ARPU grew in only 50%. Operators are delivering more yet earning less. 

Tele2 is fighting back. It’s opening physical stores while everyone else is closing them, consolidating six IT stacks down to two, and using AI to rebuild subscriber relationships at scale. For this episode, I talk with Ove Wik, EVP and CTIO at Tele2, about what it takes to reclaim customer relationships, why most BSS transformations never get finished, and what real change actually takes.

Listen now to hear:

• The question that got Tele2 from six IT stacks to two [03:58];
• The 80/20 trade-off most operators refuse to make [05:45];
• Why Tele2 is opening physical stores while most operators are closing them [09:41]; and
• What real BSS transformation actually requires [12:13].

Links and Resources:

• Check out Tele2's latest annual report. CEO Jean-Marc Harion declares that the company is going "back to the future."
• Learn more about Tele2 and Telenor's Net4Mobility joint venture, which just hit 99.9% 5G population coverage in Sweden.
• Since we recorded this episode, Tele2 has named a new CEO. Nicholas Högberg will take over for Jean-Marc Harion as president and CEO on July 1, 2026.
• Are you planning a transformation and don’t know what trade offs to make? Use the Totogi Ontology. It maps your business processes and customer interactions so you can see exactly what matters and make trade-offs with confidence.
• Tele2 is using AI and hyperpersonalization to rebuild subscriber relationships. Watch my MWC23 talk, SUPERCHARGE your MVNO with personalization to see how operators of any size can use subscriber data to deliver tailored, individual offers that grow ARPU and stop churn—exactly the kind of direct customer engagement Tele2 is now chasing.
• Ove renovates homes in his spare time and knows how to finish projects. If only all telco transformations made it over the finish line! This clip from the movie The Money Pit shows how quickly things can go wrong.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2026, 2025, and 2024 Hermes Creative Awards, and 2025 and 2024 MarCom Awards. We are also recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes seconds to do in your app and really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Ove is CTIO at Tele2. He has spent his entire life in telecom operators, starting in Sweden at a time when one incumbent provided fixed telephony. He has navigated more than 40 years of telco evolution that has included intense competition, extensive product portfolios, and international operations.

With a background in engineering, Ove has worked in technology, product management, sales, operations, and strategy. Some of his international assignments have included COO at Yoigo Spain, Head of Transformation at Salt Switzerland, and Head of Digital Enablement at Veon Group. For more than 25 years, he has worked to drive change through a combination of technology, organization, and culture.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Anthropic's latest model, Mythos, recently scored 94% on a benchmark for solving real software engineering problems—up from single digits just two and a half years ago. It also found a 27-year-old security flaw in OpenBSD that decades of human testing missed. AI's capabilities are exploding, and many operators are struggling to keep up.

For this episode, I'm talking with Roy Chua, founder and principal of AvidThink, an independent analyst firm that advises everyone from Silicon Valley startups to the world's largest telcos. We dive into the growing gap between how startups and telcos are adopting AI, what happens to the $50 billion professional services industry when AI can write telco software, and why agents need an ontology layer to actually deliver.

Listen now to hear:

• How AI is collapsing the timeline on software engineering [02:21];
• What telcos can learn from the evolution of Silicon Valley’s hiring practices [05:49];
• The bombshell headed for the GSI revenue model [08:14]; and
• What AI agents need to work in a live telco environment [11:15].

Links and Resources:

• Learn more about Roy Chua and AvidThink, the independent analyst firm advising Silicon Valley startups and the world's largest telcos on technology strategy.
• Learn about the Totogi Ontology and how it gives AI agents the business context they need to act on live telco systems, the missing layer Roy describes as essential for agents to work in production.
• Read about Anthropic's Mythos model and the SWE-verified benchmark, the new standard for measuring AI coding capability.
• Check out Project Glasswing, Anthropic's initiative to find security vulnerabilities across global software infrastructure using AI.
• Look at Nifty IT’s stock performance, the market signal Roy points to when explaining why the GSI revenue model is under pressure even as earnings stay strong.
• Check out Gauntlet AI, the intensive agentic AI training program for engineers who want to stand out in today’s market.
• Read Stanford Digital Economy Lab's findings on software engineering employment, which shows jobs for 22- to 25-year-olds are down 20%. But there’s good news too—Austen Allred, Gauntlet AI’s founder, says hiring partners are actively seeking junior engineers who know AI, with starting salaries of $200K! The jobs are there, but you gotta learn AI.
• Roy uses the term "Move 37" (made famous by the legendary 2016 AlphaGo–Lee Sedol Go match) to talk about an unexpected play nobody sees coming in telco. Allbirds pivoting to AI data centers is a favorite real-world example. We didn't see that coming!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2026, 2025, and 2024 Hermes Creative Awards, 2025 and 2024 MarCom Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Roy Chua, an entrepreneurial executive with 20+ years of IT experience, is the founder of AvidThink, an independent analyst firm covering infrastructure technologies at both carriers and enterprises. AvidThink's clients include Fortune 500 technology firms, early-stage startups, and upstart unicorns. Roy has been quoted by, and featured in, major publications including the Wall Street Journal, FierceTelecom/Wireless, The New Stack and Light Reading. He is a graduate of MIT Sloan (MBA) and UC Berkeley (BS, MS EECS).

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

AI is reshaping telco. At NVIDIA’s GTC conference, AT&T, T-Mobile, Comcast, and Spectrum announced they’re building AI grids, turning millions of existing cell sites and central offices into distributed AI compute infrastructure. NVIDIA's survey of 1,000 telco professionals found more than 90% reporting that AI is already delivering cost savings or revenue growth, with the biggest ROI coming from agentic AI for autonomous networks.

For this episode, I’m joined by Kanika Atri, Senior Director of Telecoms at NVIDIA. We dig into where real AI ROI lives in telco, why the network may be the world’s most underutilized compute asset, and the big unanswered question: who’s going to build the software that makes all of this work?

Listen now to hear:

• How NVIDIA’s survey reveals where AI is already paying off [03:06];
• Why telcos’ existing infrastructure could become the backbone of distributed AI [05:06];
• The critical software gap nobody in the industry owns [11:19]; and
• Why countries are turning to operators, not hyperscalers, to build their national AI [12:27].

Links and Resources:

• Read NVIDIA’s State of AI in Telecommunications report, a survey of 1,000+ telecom professionals that covers where AI is delivering value, what’s driving investment, and how operators are planning for distributed AI computing and 6G.
• Check out these blogs by Kanika Atri:
  • NVIDIA, Telecom Leaders Build AI Grids to Optimize Inference on Distributed Networks
  • Telcos Across Five Continents Are Building NVIDIA-Powered Sovereign AI Infrastructure
• Read more about SoftBank’s AI-RAN breakthrough in Japan and Indosat’s full sovereign AI stack in Indonesia, including locally developed LLMs and 20+ AI applications.
• NVIDIA made a $1 billion equity investment in Nokia to build CUDA-accelerated 5G software that runs on any platform. Watch NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang and Nokia CEO Justin Hotard explain the partnership in this interview.
• Learn more about the Totogi Ontology and how it’s helping Tier-1 operators turn AI into actual profit.
• Read the Appledore Research report on Totogi, Telecom-specific Ontology, the key to AI-native telco. It explains why context, not data, is the foundation AI agents need to work at scale (paywalled).
• Kanika climbed cell towers early in her career. Maybe her amygdala doesn’t fire like most people’s—just like legendary free-solo climber Alex Honnold’s brain scans show little fear response to heights. He’s famous for scaling Yosemite’s El Capitan without a rope (documented in the Oscar-winning film Free Solo), and most recently the 101-story Taipei 101 in Taiwan. Watch the news coverage here.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:
Kanika Atri is senior director of telecom products and marketing at NVIDIA, driving AI adoption across the telecom ecosystem. She works closely with hundreds of customers, developers, and partners to embed AI into networks, operations, and services—accelerating the shift to AI‑native wireless networks, autonomous agentic-AI-powered operations, sovereign AI factories, and 6G‑ready infrastructure. Through these engagements, she shapes product roadmaps, go‑to‑market strategies, and commercial partnerships that translate advanced AI capabilities into measurable business impact for the telecom industry. 

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Telcos have spent years automating their networks, but most of that automation is rigid. It makes the same decision every time—whether the device is offline, whether it's a maintenance window, whether there's a weather event. Adding AI agents sounds like progress, but if those agents aren't built on a deterministic foundation, you're not removing risk, you're accelerating it. The real challenge isn't getting AI to answer questions about your network. It's getting it to act safely.

For this episode, I'm joined by Chris Wade, Co-Founder and CTO of Itential, a network automation platform that's been making infrastructure programmable since 2014. We dig into how Itential is using agentic AI on live production networks, why it layers AI reasoning on top of deterministic guardrails, and how Lumen scaled from 16 to 350 automated workflows by putting field engineers in the driver's seat.

Listen now to hear:

• Why deterministic guardrails are essential when AI agents touch live networks [04:14];
• The "secret sauce" for giving AI agents real business context [06:24];
• How Lumen grew from 16 to 350+ automated workflows [11:24]; and
• What telcos need to demand from vendors [13:05].

Links and Resources:

• Learn more about Itential and its agentic network automation platform, FlowAI.
• Check out Itential's MCP server, launched in May 2024—one of the earliest in the telco space.
• Watch Greg Freeman from Lumen present at AutoCon on how his team scaled from 16 to 350+ automated workflows on Itential's platform.
• Take a look at Aaron Levie's blog, Building for Trillions of Agents. The Box CEO argues that agents will become the primary users of all software, and if your systems can't be accessed through an open API or CLI, they're invisible to AI. It's the exact problem we unpack in this episode.
• Learn how the Totogi Ontology gives AI agents the business context they need to act on live systems and lets operators see exactly why every decision was made and make changes on the spot.
• Read my blog, The Promise of AI is No UI, written back in 2024. It predicted exactly where this conversation was headed: a world where AI agents are the primary users of software.
• Watch this scene from Silicon Valley—one of the best shows ever made about startups—where Dinesh interacts with an AI version of Gilfoyle. It aired back in 2019, before any of us knew this would be real. If you think agentic AI is a new idea, think again!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Chris Wade co-founded Itential in 2014 to simplify and accelerate the adoption of network automation and to transform network operations practices. Using a model-based approach, Chris led the innovation and development of the company’s flagship portfolio of dynamic, multi-tiered network automation applications. Prior to establishing Itential, Chris gained a wealth of experience in the SDN, NFV and OSS/BSS markets having led initiatives in this space for global organizations including Alcatel-Lucent, ReachView Technologies and Micromuse.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hyperscaler CAPEX investments are staggering: Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and Meta spent more than $400 billion on infrastructure in 2025 and are expected to reach over $600 billion in 2026. They’re on pace to surpass $2 trillion in cumulative CAPEX spend before the year is over. Meanwhile, U.S. telco CAPEX sits at $50 billion for 2025—and it's shrinking.

For this episode, Charles Fitzgerald, Managing Director at Platformonomics, returns for his fourth (!) appearance on Telco in 20 to break down his tenth annual Follow the CAPEX report. We dive into the hyperscaler spending surge, the two big telco AI plays coming out of MWC 2026—sovereign cloud and AI-RAN, and why the gap between infrastructure spenders and operators is impossible to close.

Listen now to hear:

• How AI supercharged hyperscaler CAPEX—and changed the math for telcos [02:59];
• Why sovereign cloud may already belong to the hyperscalers [05:57];
• How AI-RAN looks more like an NVIDIA play than a telco strategy [09:54]; and
• Why Oracle's catch-up bid is a cautionary tale [13:25].

Links and Resources:

• Read Charles Fitzgerald's annual 2025 Follow the CAPEX report.
• Check out Charles Fitzgerald’s 2024 retrospective on public cloud CAPEX spending and check out his Cloud Reactor Tracker.
• This was Charles's fourth appearance on our podcast.  Check out his previous episodes:
  • Ep 110 – Hyperscaler CAPEX is going nuclear
  • Ep 88 - Cloud CAPEX: Not for the faint of wallet 
  • Ep 63 – Ante up to be a public cloud contender
• Is Oracle's CAPEX bet genius or madness? Fortune breaks down the numbers.
• Learn more about the Totogi Ontology and how it's helping Tier-1 operators turn AI into actual profit.
• Read the Appledore Research report on Totogi: Telecom-specific Ontology, the key to AI-native telco (paywalled).
• Charles has been on the podcast four times—one more and we may have to get him a Five-Timers Club jacket, SNL-style.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Charles Fitzgerald is a Seattle-based angel investor, with a focus on developer platforms and infrastructure. Previously, he spent 20+ years working on platform businesses at Microsoft and VMware. He can see the cloud from his house.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

MWC 26 is a wrap, and one thing is clear: the telco industry has moved past asking whether AI will transform the business. The new question is who's moving fast enough to capture value, and who's still playing catch up.

Before I left Barcelona, I stopped by the Mobile World Live Podcast to debrief with host Justin Springham, Managing News Editor Kavit Majithia, and analyst Carolina Milanesi from Creative Strategies. We broke down the real story behind the agentic AI buzz at MWC, what the direct-to-device satellite announcements mean for operators, and why the way teams work in 12 months will look nothing like it does today. 

Listen now to hear:

• The word of the week at MWC26—and why most of the industry is still missing it [04:43]
• The satellite land grab every telco exec should be paying attention to [10:10];
• How agentic AI is already changing the way people work and live [14:15]; and
• Why the best engineers aren't writing code anymore—they're commanding fleets of agents [17:26]

Links and Resources:

• Watch my MWC26 talk for the Agentic AI Summit, Show me the money.
• Check out Mobile World Live’s version of this episode!
• I also appeared in Mobile World Live’s MWC26 Preview episode last month.  GIve it a listen to see if my predictions were right.
• The panel covered the biggest news coming out of MWC26. Read more about these stories:
  • SpaceX announced the mid-2027 launch of Starlink Mobile, its direct-to-device satellite network.
  • The founder of OpenClaw joined OpenAI so the project could continue as an open-source initiative under OpenAI's support.
  • Vodafone and AST SpaceMobile announced a joint venture, later joined by Orange and Telefónica, to expand satellite-to-mobile connectivity.
  • Vodafone CEO Margherita Della Valle warned of a "wild west in the skies" in her MWC26 keynote, and urged the industry to establish ground rules for satellites.
  • Qualcomm announced its Snapdragon Wear Elite Platform, which aims to transform everyday wearables into personal AI devices.
  • FCC Chair Brendan Carr was at MWC26—catch Kavit's interview with him on the Mobile World Live website.
• Learn more about the Totogi Ontology and how it's helping Tier-1 operators turn AI into actual profit.
• Read Appledore Research’s report on Totogi: Telecom-specific Ontology, the key to AI-native telco (paywalled).
• Did you miss my padel tournament that kicked off MWC26? Watch the highlights here—and mark your calendar for next year!
• I handed out Totogi scarves to the Mobile World Live team—arguably the best swag at MWC26. Check out this photo.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Telco execs, wanna talk AI and public cloud? Set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

This episode is a special double-drop with the Mobile World Live podcast, featuring: 

• Justin Springham, Publisher, Mobile World Live
• Kavit Majithia, Managing News Editor, Mobile World Live
• Carolina Milanesi, President and Principal Analyst, Creative Strategies
• And yours truly, Danielle Rios, Founder and CEO of TelcoDR and Totogi

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Every telco exec is talking about AI agents. Almost nobody is talking about what those agents actually need to work: context.

Not just data — the logic, rules, and decision-making processes that define how your business actually operates. That knowledge currently lives in two places: buried in vendor code nobody fully understands, and inside people's heads. No agentic system, no matter how shiny, can make decisions without it.

In this episode, I sit down with John Abraham, Partner and Principal Analyst at Appledore Research, to dig into why a lack of context is the real blocker for AI at scale, why most approaches only solve half the problem, and how an ontology gives AI the business logic it needs to not just analyze, but decide and act.

Listen now to hear:

• The three Cs holding telcos back from using AI at scale [04:42];
• Why AI agents risk creating a new generation of silos [08:59];
• How a small use case can unlock compounding AI value [14:13]; and
• Why a data lake is a costly side quest [15:09].

Links and Resources:

• Read the Appledore Research report: Telecom-specific Ontology, the key to AI-native telco (paywalled).
• Watch my MWC26 talk for the Agentic AI Summit, Show me the money.
• Learn more about the Totogi Ontology and how it's helping Tier-1 operators turn AI into actual profit.
• Want to see the Totogi Ontology in action and hear more customer success stories? Find Team Totogi in Hall 2 at MWC26 in Barcelona through March 5. We’ll be showing off our telco ontology that manages enterprise context at scale. Set up a meeting.
• Check out these additional Appledore Research reports: GenAI in BSS and Predictive Analytics and GenAI: Choosing the right tool for the job (paywalled).
• Listen to my conversation with Rick Lievano from Microsoft, who talked about AT&T's AI agent deployment and why they pumped the brakes before going to production.
• Curious how a Tier-1 operator turned a $1–2M dormant cell problem into tens of millions in CXO-level impact—all on the same ontology foundation? Listen to What's up with Totogi: The biggest AI use case for telco.
• I once gave John a Yeti that he still raves about. Since then, he’s grown a beard and likes using Vikings Revolution products to take care of it. I guess our next gift to him will be a Mustache Guard mug.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

With over 16 years of experience in the telecom industry, John leads Appledore’s Digital Enablement & Monetization program. Previously, he was at Analysys Mason for 11 years, where he led the digital experience research segment as principal analyst. He has experience working with a varied client base on topics ranging from digitization benchmarking and procurement for CSPs; strategy and go-to market for vendors; and commercial and technical due diligence for financial institutions. Earlier, as a consultant at a BSS vendor, he led requirements gathering, solution definition, and implementation at multiple Tier-1 telcos in Asia and Europe. John holds a bachelor’s degree in computer science from Anna University (India) and an MBA from Bradford University School of Management (UK).

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

At MWC, vendors will flood the floor with AI demos that look impressive but can’t prove their actual value. Telcos have spent billions connecting systems, but connection isn’t comprehension. Most AI initiatives are blind—unable to see across the fragmented landscape of BSS, OSS, and network systems that speak different languages and live in isolated realities.

The Totogi Ontology is a semantic layer that gives AI the ability to understand your business. Once it does, the army of consultants you’ve been paying to manually stitch together data across systems becomes redundant—and the economics of everything changes. So when the same vendor selling you AI is also billing you for the consultants that AI should replace, ask them to show you the money. 

Listen now to hear:

• Why AI demos fail when they touch your architecture [03:11];
• How the Totogi Ontology solved Zain’s dormant cell problem and turned 48-hours of troubleshooting into 30-minute fixes [04:34]; 
• Why the ability to comprehend across systems and domains is so impactful [6:06] and
• The one question that separates real AI value from empty promises [08:00].

Links and Resources:

• Watch the video version of this talk, Show me the money, on YouTube. 
• Learn more about the Totogi Ontology and how it's helping Tier-1 operators turn AI into actual profit.
• Want to see the Totogi Ontology in action and hear more customer success stories? Find Team Totogi in Hall 2 at MWC26 in Barcelona, running March 2-5. We’ll be showing off our telco ontology that manages enterprise context at scale. Set up a meeting. 
• Catch me taking part in MWC’s Agentic AI Summit, Monday, March 2, 9:00am - 1:00 pm, in Hall 6.
• What telco execs need from every AI vendor is the same thing Cuba Gooding Jr. demanded from Tom Cruise in Jerry Maguire: Show me the money!
• Connect with me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Danielle Rios (DR) is the founder and CEO of TelcoDR and Totogi, and host of the Telco in 20 podcast.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The telecom industry is full of AI projects that fail. Most operators think it’s a data problem—connect the systems, feed AI the information. But data doesn't tell AI how to decide. Your processes do. Your rules do.

In this special “What's Up with Totogi” episode, I flip the script and have my friend David Haselwood interview me about BSS Magic. We dig into what a breakthrough biology project from the 1990s can teach telcos about making AI work, why BSS Magic isn’t actually a BSS, and why vendor consolidation won’t fix your real problem. I also share stories from Tier-1 operators who tried horizontal AI vendors, failed—and then came to Totogi for AI that works.

Listen now to hear:

• What BSS Magic is … and isn’t [03:23];
• How we proved it’s the real deal at TelecomTV’s AI-Native Telco Summit  [06:39];
• Why AI projects keep failing [08:59]; and
• How Tier-1 operators are using BSS Magic to get real results [10:55].

Links and Resources:

• Want to see BSS Magic in action and hear more customer success stories? Find Team Totogi in Hall 2 at MWC26 in Barcelona, running March 2-5. We’ll be showing off our telco ontology that manages context at scale. Connect with DR on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Check out Lulu Cheng Meservey's post on why bragging about AI in 2026 is like bragging about cloud storage—customers want to see real value, not buzzwords.
• Read how a Southeast Asian operator cut CPQ order creation time by over 80%—from 5 minutes and 50+ clicks to under 50 seconds with a single prompt using BSS Magic.
• Learn how Totogi generated over 500,000 lines of BSS Code in one day—LIVE!—at TelecomTV’s AI-Native Telco Forum, proving that BSS Magic is the real deal. Check out our results.
• Listen to another Telco in 20 “What’s Up With Totogi” episode to learn more about how BSS Magic functions as a telco-specific ontological layer and transforms BSS migrations from multi-year projects to just a few months.
• Learn more about the Gene Ontology project and how biologists solved their semantic inconsistency problem in the 1990s.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:
Danielle Rios (DR) is the founder and CEO of TelcoDR and Totogi, and host of the Telco in 20 podcast.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The telecommunications industry is heading to MWC Barcelona with a strong desire to skip AI hype in favor of AI proof. Telco executives aren’t looking for more possibilities—they’re demanding real deployments, measurable outcomes, and P&L impact. 

For this episode, I’m joined by Rick Lievano, Microsoft’s CTO for the Worldwide Telecommunications Industry. We dive into Microsoft’s vision for network autonomy, real-world deployments delivering breakthrough results, and the barriers holding telcos back from deploying AI agents at scale.

Listen now to hear:

• How Microsoft’s NOA framework automates telco network operations [03:29];
• How T-Mobile built a self-healing network that even responds automatically to hurricanes [09:23];
• What sovereign cloud really means [11:30]; and
• What's holding back telcos from deploying AI at scale [14:18].

Links and Resources:

• Learn more about Microsoft’s Network Operations Agent (NOA) Framework for network autonomy and read Microsoft’s white paper on NetAI, the autonomous networking framework powering Azure’s global network operations.
• Watch this video about Microsoft Agent 365, the control plane that helps teams deploy, manage, and secure AI agents to support agentic AI at scale.
• Check out how AT&T deployed 71 generative AI solutions to over 100,000 employees with Azure, reducing customer care resolution time by 33% and processing approximately 9 billion tokens daily.
• Read how SK Telecom used Microsoft Foundry to create AI-native digital experiences that feel more like a lifestyle concierge than a traditional telco app.
• Learn how T-Mobile unified its network data on Azure and built a self-healing network.
• Learn about Bleu in France, where Orange and Capgemini operate a sovereign Azure environment with zero Microsoft access, enabling telcos to run sensitive workloads under strict data residency guarantees.
• Did you know Microsoft’s co-founder Bill Gates’ has played pickleball for over 50 years, even playing on the original court built by the game’s inventors?
• Did you know DR won the The Minor League Pickleball (MiLP) DUPR16 50+ Nationals? Watch her team, The Austin Ballers, take the top prize!
• Who else is a birder? We talked about my love of birdfeeders. Here is recent video from my Bird Buddy, which I love! 
• Want to learn how to scale AI agents with confidence? Come find Team Totogi at MWC26 in Barcelona, running March 2-5. We will be showing off BSS Magic and our telco ontology that manages context at scale. Connect with DR on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Rick Lievano is Microsoft’s CTO for the Worldwide Telecommunications Industry. He works with customers and partners in developing telecommunications industry solutions and reference architectures to address the rapidly changing needs of service providers across the globe. He is an enthusiastic participant and speaker in many industry communities, an advocate of industry frameworks and open standards, and holds TM Forum Open Digital Architecture and Business Development Manager Career Certifications. At TM Forum, he is a member of the Composable IT & Ecosystems Mission, overseeing the effective creation and adoption of pragmatic best practices and standards to deliver value to the membership. As a board member at both Mplify Alliance (former MEF Forum) and Linux CAMARA, his contributions drive the industry toward a more connected and efficient digital future. Rick currently leads initiatives to help operators achieve more by infusing agentic artificial intelligence across their business in a secure and responsible manner.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

MWC26 in Barcelona is right around the corner, and the telco industry is already buzzing about what will unfold at the Fira. Four big themes will dominate this year’s event: AI-driven networks, network APIs, AI data centers, and regulation. But which of these present real opportunities for telecom, and which are expensive distractions or even potential minefields? 

For this episode, I’m joined by Dean Bubley, founder and director of Disruptive Analysis. He and I give our takes on what telcos should prioritize in the coming year, where the real obstacles lie, and what it will take to win in 2026. 

Listen now to hear:

• Where operators should start with AI implementation [04:00];
• The network API strategy that everyone is missing [06:24];
• Why telcos will struggle to compete on AI infrastructure [10:02]; and
• How a regulation-first mindset could lead to more missed opportunities [13:35].

Links and Resources:

• Read Benedict Evans’ “AI Eats the World” report, which discusses hyperscaler investment strategies and the risks of under-investing in AI.
• Check out McKinsey & Company’s report predicting that network APIs have a $300 billion dollar revenue potential, and its follow up piece, The future of telcos: Mapping the routes to renewed success.
• Learn more about Twilio’s developer ecosystem with 10 million developers generating almost $5 billion in revenue.
• Check out some of telco’s biggest AI infrastructure investments in 2025: SK Telecom’s AI data center expansion, Deutsche Telekom’s AI factory partnership with NVIDIA, and Verizon’s GPU cloud and enterprise workload initiatives.
• Listen to Telco in 20 episode 105, NVIDIA’s vision for AI and the RAN, to learn about NVIDIA's approach to AI-RAN and monetizing network infrastructure.
• Want to see what moving fast with AI actually looks like? Come find me at MWC26 in Barcelona, running March 2-5. Totogi will be showing off BSS Magic, a way to transform your telco without having to actually transform your systems. Connect with me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Dean shared his favorite passport stamp—Palau’s jellyfish and Palau Pledge, an environmental commitment visitors sign upon arrival. But passport stamps may soon be a thing of the past as the EU and other countries shift to digital border systems.
• Want to hear more from Dean? He’ll be joined by Andrew Collinson at TelecomTV’s Unthinkable Lab: Agentic AI + Telecoms APIs = ? event on January 15 in London.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Dean Bubley is the founder of Disruptive Analysis, an independent technology industry analyst and consulting firm based in London. He also jointly runs the Disruptive 6G initiative and is a convener of the 6G Reset forum and the Unthinkable Lab project. An outspoken analyst and futurist with over 25 years of experience, he specializes in mobile/telecoms fields, with an eye on broader technological, governmental, and societal contexts. He is one of the leading market observers and forecasters covering 5G, 6G, Wi-Fi, voice & network AI, spectrum & broadband policy, edge/cloud compute, enterprise private networks, IoT, new telecom business models, and voice/video communications.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

What an incredible year for telco, AI, and the public cloud. Hyperscalers shattered CapEx records, the first brownfield 5G cores migrated to the public cloud, and we had phenomenal conversations with telco heavyweights worldwide. One of our episodes really stood out this year: my conversation with Gabriela Styf Sjöman, Managing Director of Research and Network Strategy at BT Group. We’re bringing it back as our 2025 Telco in 20 Episode of the Year.

Gabriela cut through tech jargon with a brilliant, two-question framework to guide technology decisions: does it help us make money or does it help us save money? We dive into BT's dual AI strategy, why "best network" marketing is dead, and the cultural shift needed for telcos to become subscriber-centric.

Listen now to hear: 

• Why telcos must prioritize commercial transformation to move up the value chain [05:26];
• BT's dual AI strategy for internal operations and customer service [07:31];
• The cultural shift needed to embrace process redesign and customer-centric thinking [10:49]; and
• Why "best network" marketing is dead and what telcos should focus on instead [13:31].

Links and Resources:

• Watch Gabriela’s talk and our panel from TelecomTV’s 2025 DSP Leaders World Forum on BT's AI strategy and why telcos must focus on products over technology.
• Check out Gabriela’s TelecomTV interview on how AI-powered network APIs will help telcos become insights-driven providers and why telecom standardization needs a revamp.
• Read my blogs, The modern telco and To get AI value, shift left (and eliminate jobs), to learn how AI-driven transformation can improve telco profitability and operational efficiency.
• Learn more about BT Group's network strategy and AI initiatives at bt.com.
• Totogi’s BSS Magic uses AI to help operators solve their vendor interoperability problem. Learn how we generated over 600,000 lines of BSS Code in one day—LIVE!—at TelecomTV’s AI-Native Telco Forum, proving that BSS Magic is the real deal. Check out our results.
• Looking for new ways to generate revenue? Learn how hyper-personalization can unlock revenue streams through advanced ML platforms like Totogi’s PlanAI.
• Want to try albondigas Mexicanas, also known as Mexican meatballs?  Here’s a recipe to get you started.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and the public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Gabriela Styf Sjöman is a global executive with extensive international business experience in the telecom and IT industries. She has held executive positions in numerous multinational organizations across functions such as strategy, technology, business, and sales. She is currently Managing Director of Research and Network Strategy at BT Group, where she oversees network strategy, industry standards, technology research, and research commercialization. Prior to joining BT Group Gabriela held various executive positions such as Chief Strategy Officer at Nokia, Deputy Chief Operating Officer and VP Head of Network Services at Telia Company, VP Head of Networks and TI Labs at Telecom Italia, and numerous positions at Ericsson spanning Technology and Business.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Most consumers can't tell the difference between Wi-Fi and cellular networks, yet our industry expects them to navigate over 200 confusing plan options. This complexity leaves no easy way for customers to compare networks, compare coverage at specific locations, or recognize if they’re on the right plan for their usage patterns.

For this episode, I'm talking with Thad Hwang, CEO and founder of Goji Mobile, a consumer super app that's bringing transparency to mobile. Goji is like Expedia for mobile—one platform where consumers can compare plans, evaluate coverage, and purchase refurbished devices.

Listen now to hear:

• How hyper-local coverage maps help consumers choose the right carrier [05:31]
• Why they stay with carriers even when they aren't meeting their needs [06:52]
• Why so many customers overpay for data [07:35]
• How simple plan adjustments can save people hundreds of dollars per year [11:07]

Links and Resources:

• Check out the Goji Mobile website to compare carriers and plans, check coverage maps, and shop for phones.
• Download the Goji Mobile app to get real-time measurement of your network performance. 
• Looking to upgrade your phone? Go to the Goji Store to buy quality refurbished phones at great prices. It’s currently offering a special 10% discount for our listeners! Use the code: TELCOIN20 
• Read the Goji blog, and follow Goji on Facebook and Instagram.
• Thad compared choosing from 200+ mobile plans to ordering from the Cheesecake Factory menu—and he's not wrong. That thing is absolutely insane and takes at least 15 minutes to read! Take a look at the menu to see why. 
• Want to see the pickleball maneuvers Thad and I geeked out about? Take a look at these videos to see how to hit an Erne and ATP. 
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Thad Hwang is the Founder and CEO of Goji Mobile, where he’s building a next-generation mobile marketplace that connects consumers with the best deals on phones and plans. He has deep dual-sided marketplace experience from his time at eBay and Lyft, as well as enterprise B2B expertise in sectors like automotive, data/tooling, and government, and executive leadership experience as Chief Product Officer at Replica and The Black Tux. Thad has a track record of scaling consumer products from zero to millions of users, building and leading cross-functional teams, and driving innovation across mobile, e-commerce, and SaaS. 

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The telco industry has been buzzing about AI transformation, but few operators have seen tangible results beyond pilot projects. The challenge isn't just adopting new technology—it's fundamentally changing how telcos build and maintain their business support systems (BSS).

For this special episode, I join Scott Bicheno and Iain Morris on the Telecoms.com podcast to discuss Totogi's recent AI demonstration at TelecomTV's AI-Native Telco Forum in Düsseldorf, Germany. This is one of our rare "double drops," where both podcasts share the same conversation. We talk about Totogi’s live coding demonstration in Germany, which used AI and BSS Magic to generate over 600,000 lines of BSS code, explore the concept of ontology in AI systems, and dive into why telcos struggle with AI implementation. Fair warning: this episode is longer than usual, but we cover a lot of important topics. 

Listen now to hear:

• Why telcos can't get past "zero to one" with AI—and where to start [19:01];
• The inside story behind Totogi’s live coding feat [39:33];
• How telco-specific ontology helps AI understand our industry’s business logic [41:28]; and
• Why many veteran developers resist AI-generated code [53:05].

Links and Resources:

• I have a big idea that needs bold execution: my BSS vision for telcos. I want to use AI to help operators solve their vendor interoperability mess by creating a product that helps them build their own BSS. Learn how Totogi generated over 500,000 lines of BSS Code in one day—LIVE!—at TelecomTV’s AI-Native Telco Forum, proving that BSS Magic is the real deal. Check out our results.
• Watch my recent interview with Ray Le Maistre from TelecomTV where I discuss how coding with LLMs is approaching human-level capability.
• Read my blog, Düsseldorf changed everything for BSS, where I break down three objections people have about BSS Magic and explain how we're systematically proving each one wrong.
• Check out Scott Bicheno's article Totogi's automated BSS code-writing demonstration, The Fast Mode’s Totogi Demos AI-Built BSS From Scratch in a 'Single Day', Edward Finegold said Totogi “stuck their necks out” to show what’s possible with a new approach to BSS, and TelecomTV’s coverage Totogi creates new BSS system on AI-Native Telco Forum show floor.
• Learn more about Totogi's BSS Magic and how AI is transforming BSS development.
• Read my blogs to learn why telco is the perfect use case for AI-assisted development, how context engineering enables production-ready AI applications, and why your legacy BSS vendors won't rebuild as AI-native.
• Read my blog on how the public cloud is YOUR problem.
• Learn about my other companies, Skyvera and TelcoDR.
• Check out my full 2-hour conversation with Scott Bicheno and Iain Morris on the Telecoms.com podcast.
• Explore Gauntlet AI, the 10-week program my son went through that is training developers in AI-powered coding.
• Scott, Iain and I also discussed how Wimbledon's switch to AI technology for line calls mirrors concerns about AI replacing human expertise. Read more about the controversy.
• Want to know more about the beer we were drinking? Scott and Iain’s favorite is BrewDog’s Hazy Jane.
• We talked about my love of both pickleball and tennis in this episode. If you're curious about the differences between the two sports, this video explains the seven biggest ones.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
The Telecoms.com Podcast is a weekly show produced by Telecoms.com and hosted by industry experts Scott Bicheno and Iain Morris. The format centers on irreverent and engaging discussions about current trends, controversies, and major news in the global telecommunications sector, often featuring special guests from telecom operators, vendors, and analysts.

As the Editorial Director of Telecoms.com, Scott Bicheno has been covering the mobile phone and broader technology industries for over 20 years. Prior to Telecoms.com, Scott was the primary smartphone specialist at industry analyst Strategy Analytics. 

Iain Morris is the International Editor at Light Reading. Prior to boosting Light Reading's UK-based editorial team numbers, he was a successful freelance writer and editor covering the telecom sector. He was previously the lead telecom analyst for the Economist Intelligence Unit.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

If AI is so awesome, why isn't it having a bigger impact on your bottom line? I hate to break it to you, but the problem isn't with AI—it's with your leadership. Look no further than the quality of your ideas and capability of your execution to figure out why your team is not getting better results with AI.

In this episode, I sit down with strategic HR and transformation leader Jim Abolt. He has decades of experience helping organizations navigate major transformations successfully, and isn’t surprised that AI initiatives are failing to deliver. Listen to our conversation as we discuss the hard truths about “Big C” Change leadership, why you need big ideas and bold execution to be successful with AI, and why you should listen to me, DR, the “Disruptor Who’s Right.” We dive into how I'm delivering real results when it comes to implementing AI in my own organization.

Listen now to hear:

• Why AI ROI failure is a leadership problem, not a technology problem [02:56];
• How Totogi redesigned work to achieve 20x developer productivity [06:28];
• Why telling employees the truth about AI's impact isn't reckless—it's responsible [13:05]; and
• How thinking like a business person rather than a functional expert enables bold AI execution [15:27].

Links and Resources:

• I have a big idea that needs bold execution: my BSS vision for telcos. I want to use AI to help operators solve their vendor interoperability mess by creating a product that helps them build their own BSS. Learn how Totogi generated over 500,000 lines of production BSS Code in one day—live—at the TelecomTV Forum event to show that BSS Magic is the real deal. Check out our results.
• Watch my latest interview with Ray Le Maistre from TelecomTV where I discuss how coding with LLMs is approaching human-level capability.
• Check out my conversation with Scott Bicheno and Iain Morris on the Telecoms.com podcast. We talk about Totogi’s amazing feat at the recent AI-Native Telco Forum and answer all the questions people have about it.
• Read my blogs to learn why telco is the perfect use case for AI-assisted development, how context engineering enables production-ready AI applications, and why your legacy BSS vendors won't rebuild as AI-native.
• Read the blog that Jim raved about, To get AI value, shift left (and eliminate jobs), to learn how to maximize the impact of AI in your organization.
• Listen to Jim’s previous episode, “How to build an AI-first organization” where he shares a practical framework for AI transformation and AI's impact on jobs.
• Listen to the “Invest Like the Best” podcast in which Joe Liemandt calls Jim "one of the most influential people in my career."
• Jim mentioned that I am always right—with the public cloud and now with AI! Watch this clip from the movie, Groundhog Day, where life insurance agent Ned Ryerson tries to convince Phil that he’s right. “Am I right or am I right or am I right? I’m right.”
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Jim Abolt is a retired HR executive who is widely regarded as an expert in leadership development, culture shaping, and large-scale organizational change. His career spanned multiple industries, disciplines, and continents. Starting as a labor relations specialist in a Midwest steel mill, he ultimately held global senior management positions with leading companies in the consumer packaged goods, pharmaceutical, and software development industries. Jim holds an A.B. from Dartmouth College, and a J.D. and M.A. from the University of Illinois.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The telco industry loves to differentiate on technical specs—five nines of reliability, fastest 5G, most coverage. But Gabriela Styf Sjöman, Managing Director of Research and Network Strategy at BT Group, has a radically simple framework that cuts through the noise: every technology decision comes down to two questions—does it help us make money or does it help us save money?

In this episode, Gabriela breaks down BT’s dual AI strategy: “AI for networks” (using AI to optimize internal operations) and “networks for AI” (building networks that support customers’ AI workloads). We discuss why “best network” marketing is dead, how telcos need better customer segmentation beyond just “consumer vs. enterprise,” and why the biggest barrier to AI adoption isn’t technical capability—it’s cultural change. If you’re a telco exec struggling to get value from AI investments, this conversation will reframe how you think about technology strategy.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

Listen now to hear:

• Why telcos must prioritize commercial transformation to move up the value chain [04:00];
• BT's dual AI strategy for internal operations and customer service [05:49];
• The cultural shifts needed to embrace process redesign and customer-centric thinking [09:45]; and
• Why "best network" marketing is dead and what telcos should focus on instead [11:49].

Links and Resources:

• Watch Gabriela’s talk and our panel from TelecomTV’s 2025 DSP Leaders World Forum on BT's AI strategy and why telcos must focus on products over technology.
• Check out Gabriela’s TelecomTV interview on how AI-powered network APIs will help telcos become insights-driven providers and why telecom standardization needs a revamp.
• Read my blogs, The modern telco and To get AI value, shift left (and eliminate jobs), to learn how AI-driven transformation can improve telco profitability and operational efficiency.
• Learn more about BT Group's network strategy and AI initiatives at bt.com.
• Looking for new ways to generate revenue? Learn how hyper-personalization can unlock revenue streams through advanced ML platforms like Totogi’s PlanAI product.
• Find out more about Totogi by meeting with us at TelecomTV’s AI-Native Telco Forum in Düsseldorf, Germany on October 23-24. DM me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Want to try albondigas Mexicanas, also known as Mexican meatballs?  Here’s a recipe to get you started.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Gabriela Styf Sjöman is a global executive with extensive international business experience in the telecom and IT industries. She has held executive positions in numerous multinational organizations across functions such as strategy, technology, business, and sales. She is currently Managing Director of Research and Network Strategy at BT Group, where she oversees network strategy, industry standards, technology research, and research commercialization. Prior to joining BT Group Gabriela held various executive positions such as Chief Strategy Officer at Nokia, Deputy Chief Operating Officer and VP Head of Network Services at Telia Company, VP Head of Networks and TI Labs at Telecom Italia, and numerous positions at Ericsson spanning Technology and Business.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

MIT research shows that 95% of enterprise AI projects fail, and the culprit is likely the daunting task of managing business context. When AI doesn't understand the full picture of your business, it makes poor decisions and delivers disappointing results that leave operators questioning whether AI can deliver real value.

In this "What's Up with Totogi?" episode, I'm talking with Michael Walker, who leads Enterprise AI Deployment Strategy at Totogi. He's focused on what we believe is the right approach for telcos: vertical AI, built specifically for telcos, that understands the industry and your business from day one. We dive into why most telcos are experiencing "context chaos" with their AI deployments, how Totogi's ontology approach eliminates the guesswork, and how our BSS Magic can turbocharge ancient legacy systems without expensive migrations, data aggregation, or swap offs.

Listen now to hear:

• How context engineering makes AI work at scale [05:00];
• How Totogi's ontology framework manages context across thousands of AI agents without operational chaos [07:49];
• Why you don't need data lake migrations to make BSS Magic work [10:24]; and
• A customer example of building a complex sales agent in just four weeks [13:09].

Links and Resources:

• Check out my blog, Context is EVERYTHING, to learn how context engineering can turn expensive demos into successful enterprise AI.
• Read MIT’s report, The GenAI Divide: State of AI in Business 2025, on why 95% of enterprise AI projects fail.
• Learn about Totogi's BSS Magic and its telco-specific ontology approach.
• Watch our conversation from MWC25, where Michael and I discuss how BSS Magic uses AWS Bedrock to bring AI intelligence to legacy telecom systems, solving vendor interoperability challenges that have held telcos back for decades.
• Check out how Totogi's AI-powered BSS Magic reduced CloudSense's TM Forum API certification from 26 months to four weeks.
• Watch my interview with TelecomTV, where I discuss how Tier-one operators are using BSS Magic to achieve dramatic results with BSS Magic AI, including 15% faster sales quoting and reducing support tickets from five hours to 15 minutes.
• Learn how multiple Tier 1 telecom operators are using Totogi's BSS Magic to achieve 80% faster order processing and 75% cost reductions by deploying AI agents across existing legacy systems without costly replacements.
• Find out more about Totogi by meeting with us at TelecomTV's AI-Native Telco Forum in Düsseldorf, Germany on October 23-24. DM me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Watch this Scandinavian mother explain why it’s “normal” to see babies nap outside in Sweden and the health benefits they believe it provides – leaving them outside in temperatures as low as −13 °F / −25 °C!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Michael Walker leads enterprise ai deployment strategy at Totogi. He has extensive experience deploying enterprise AI solutions across industries including telecommunications, enterprise technology, automotive, and oil and gas. At Totogi, Michael leads the company’s BSS Magic initiative, helping telecom operators adopt AI at scale by leveraging BSS Magic’s universal ontology layer to accelerate transformation and unlock new business value.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

MVNOs are having their moment. From Ryan Reynolds with Mint Mobile to the Trumps launching Trump Mobile, everyone wants in.

But the truth is it’s tough to be an MVNO. MVNOs who pay millions in licensing fees struggle to actually go live because incumbent MNOs work overtime to squash them. Take Nigeria - regulators handed out 46 MVNx licenses and collected serious cash from hopeful startups. The result? Zero MVNOs have successfully launched to date.

In this episode, I’m talking with Allan Rasmussen, CEO of MVNO Services and one of the world's leading MVNO strategists. He has witnessed hundreds of MVNO dreams crash and burn while also guiding success stories that cracked the code. We dive deep into the regulatory challenges facing MVNOs worldwide and Allan's strategies for navigating the chaos.

Listen now to hear:

• How the Nigerian MVNO market has been stalled by regulator-MNO power struggles [03:31];
• How MTN's pivot to "network as a service" might be a strategic game-changer [10:31];
• Why MVNOs should form alliances when battling regulatory roadblocks [12:55]; and
• How countries like Canada, India, Pakistan, and Thailand are creating barriers to MVNO competition [13:54].

Links and Resources:

• Allan does a great job keeping the MVNO community up to date on all the happenings in the MVNx space. Follow him on LinkedIn.
• Read TM Forum’s article, “What’s fuelling the rise of new MVNOs?,” to learn how new MVNOs are surging due to eSIMs, MVNE platforms, and cloud-native technology like Totogi's multi-tenant charging system that enables faster MVNO deployments.
• Check out my blog, “MVNOs don't need MVNEs (and MVNEs’ loss will be MNOs’ gain),” to find out how African MVNOs can bypass MVNE middlemen by leveraging cloud-native SaaS solutions and direct MNO wholesale platforms.
• Read about the Nigerian Communications Commission’s MVNO framework and licensing in “Is Nigeria Ripe for MVNOs —Or Are We Just Licensing Hope?” from TechAfrica News.
• Wanna get the scoop around the world on how challenging it is to launch an MVNO? Learn about Canada’s redefinition of MVNO requirements, listen to the MVNO Knowledge Hub podcast episode, “Thailand’s MVNO Collapse – The Regulatory Inaction that Killed an Industry,” to learn about Thailand, and catch up on Pakistan by reading “New PTA Policy Will Let New Telcos Launch Services in Pakistan Without a Physical Network”.
• Learn about Totogi's Wholesale Solution for MNOs looking to monetize MVNO partnerships. Want to try it out? Book a demo!
• OF COURSE the telcos don’t collude to box out the MVNOs. But it did remind me of that time the Dukes tried to corner the frozen concentrate orange juice market in the movie Trading Places. Watch how they lose their fortune over a $1 bet between Louis Winthorpe III (Aykroyd) and Billy Ray (Murphy).
• Find out more about Totogi by meeting with us at the NOVACOM Summit in Cape Town, South Africa, on September 23-25. DM me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Allan Rasmussen is an MVNA/MVNE/MVNO specialist with hands-on experience from more than 60 projects in both competitive and greenfield markets. His expertise includes business case development, execution, launch, and growth strategies. He is an advisor and consultant to MNOs, MVNAs, MVNEs, MVNOs, national regulatory authorities, government agencies, TMT industry associations, and innovation and investment banks. Allan is a well-known voice in the global MVNO space as a walking MVNO wiki, and is recognized for his expertise in spotting emerging trends and curating crucial industry news. He brings a unique blend of strategic foresight and practical experience to his work, all while championing his core values of fostering MVNO growth and sharing knowledge.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Telco transformation projects are legendary for their complexity. Operators must maintain 99.999% uptime while ripping out decades-old legacy systems that are deeply intertwined with every aspect of their business. They involve massive technical debt, vendor lock-in, regulatory compliance requirements, and the challenge of modernizing infrastructure—all of which need to be managed while serving millions of customers who expect flawless service. Add in organizational resistance to change, budget constraints, and the fact that many telcos still run critical systems on 1980s mainframes, and you have a perfect storm. Getting it wrong can mean network outages, customer churn, regulatory fines, and revenue loss that can run into the hundreds of millions.

In this episode, I'm talking with Amol Phadke, Chief Transformation Officer at Tech Mahindra. With over 25 years of experience spanning Google Cloud, Telenor, and now leading AI transformation at a major service provider, Amol has seen transformation from every angle. We explore why traditional projects fail, how successful telcos are building new revenue streams, and Tech Mahindra's framework for AI-driven transformation. 

Listen now to hear:

• Why telcos face a "perfect storm" of declining revenue and legacy challenges [05:27]
• How successful telcos leverage trust to build sovereignty [07:51];
• Tech Mahindra's six-pillar AI transformation framework [10:23]; and
• Why one CEO said AI is everywhere except his P&L [11:03]. 

Links and Resources:

• Learn about Tech Mahindra's six-pillar AI transformation framework.
• Read about Tech Mahindra's Orion platform for agentic AI deployment.
• Find out about Tech Mahindra Maker's Lab, an innovation center that transforms ideas into solutions.
• Listen to my conversation with Dr. Lester Thomas, head of new technologies and innovation at Vodafone Digital and IT.  He breaks down the transformation that moved 17 petabytes from 600 Hadoop servers hosted in 11 countries to Google Cloud.
• BSS Magic is a game-changer when it comes to telco transformation—especially when migrating data to a new system. Forget iterative attempts until you get it right; you work right inside the BSS Magic platform and get the job done in 20% of the time. Want to try it out? Book a demo!
• Find out how Totogi can accelerate your transformation project by meeting with us at the NOVACOM Summit in Cape Town, South Africa, on September 23-25. DM me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Besides telco transformation projects, do you know who else has a bad reputation? Joan Jett! I once saw her in Las Vegas. She’s a bad-ass rocker chick!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Amol Phadke is a senior business executive providing leadership in AI, cloud, software networks and IT, Big Tech, and telecommunications. He specializes in strategy definition, execution of large-scale engineering and innovation development/delivery units, and leading global multi-discipline teams. He is Chief Transformation Officer at Tech Mahindra, where he supports the CEO on strategic initiatives across the company, including elevating the communications industry vertical globally. Prior to Tech Mahindra, Amol served as EVP and Group CTO at Telenor Group, and as a member of Telenor’s group executive management team. Prior to Telenor, Amol was served as Global GM for the communications service provider industry vertical at Google Cloud.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The telco industry has long been plagued by sluggish software development cycles that stretch across months and years. But operators are now building and deploying AI-powered solutions in weeks using what Microsoft calls "hypervelocity engineering."

In this episode, I'm talking with Robin Cole, vice president of engineering at Microsoft, who works with telcos on their biggest technical challenges. She explains how operators like AT&T, KT Corporation, and Telefónica are using Microsoft tools and methodology to speed development timelines and modernize operations.

Listen now to hear:

• The three components of hypervelocity engineering that accelerate development [04:13];
• The spectrum between AI augmentation and full automation [07:00];
• How AT&T is benefiting from Microsoft's AI advancements [12:33];
• How KT Corporation is transforming its entire development strategy with Microsoft [13:34].

Links and Resources:

• Watch Robin discuss Microsoft’s hypervelocity engineering at TM Forum’s DTW Ignite.
• Learn more about Microsoft’s Azure AI Foundry.
• Read about Microsoft Copilot Studio, a low-code/no-code AI development environment. 
• Discover GitHub Copilot, an AI-powered coding assistant.
• Read Microsoft’s blog, Microsoft AI ignites telecom innovation and growth.
• See how AT&T improved operations and employee experiences with Azure.
• Read about KT Corporation’s partnership with Microsoft to accelerate AI innovation in Korea.
• Check out Telefónica and Microsoft’s collaboration to co-develop digital solutions using Open Gateway.
• Watch Microsoft Copilot interview Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, and Satya Nadella as part of celebrating the 50th anniversary of Microsoft.
• Find out how Totogi's BSS Magic can turn your AI development tools into telecom powerhouses at the NOVACOM Summit in Cape Town, September 23-25. DM me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Did you catch Robin’s Bugs Bunny reference when she says “took a hard right turn at Albuquerque”? Check out this compilation of all the times Bugs Bunny says his iconic line.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Robin Cole is an accomplished business development, marketing, and engineering program management executive with 25 years of experience in Fortune 100 companies and startups. Her professional experience includes Sony, where she managed worldwide strategy and business development for Sony Electronics and Sony Corporation; Apple, where she led program management efforts across the MacBook portfolio of products; and Microsoft, where she has held a number of marketing, business development, sales and program management leadership roles across a variety of products. 

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Google Cloud runs the largest private network on the planet, managing billions of users with a fraction of the staff that regional telcos need. Now it’s opening up its playbook to share this AI-driven approach with telecommunications operators.

In this episode, I'm talking with Angelo Libertucci, global head of industry for telecom at Google Cloud, about its partnership with Ericsson to build a cloud-native, 5G core and autonomous operations framework entirely on Google Cloud that can self-heal and self-optimize without human intervention.

Listen now to hear:

• How Google's partnership with Ericsson delivers instant service deployment for 5G networks [03:40]
• Why the timing is finally right for telcos to move core network functions to the public cloud [04:56]
• The math behind network utilization that makes public cloud for network workloads financially compelling [09:12]
• How Bell Canada transformed its network performance using autonomous operations without moving workloads to cloud [13:55]

Links and Resources:

• Read about Google Cloud and Ericsson's carrier-grade 5G Core-as-a-Service platform.
• Learn about Google Cloud's Autonomous Network Operations framework.
• Check out O2 Telefónica Germany and Google Cloud’s partnership to move 5G functions to the cloud with Nokia.
• Watch my 2018 Interview with Google Cloud about Spanner (yes, I’ve been talking about telco and the public cloud for FOREVER)!
• Angelo was a professional hockey player.  Check out his jersey when he played with the Canadian All Stars.
• I’m not a hockey player, but I do play tennis.  Check out this sport that combines both, ice tennis — watch out for those slapstick backhands!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Angelo Libertucci heads the telecom industry for Google Cloud globally. He is responsible for business development and strategy, partnerships, and field enablement that will drive CSP service differentiation and value, leveraging Google Cloud's technology and platform. He also identifies and capitalizes on new opportunities across Google’s ecosystem.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Network APIs are the telecom industry's next big bet for unlocking new revenue, with McKinsey & Company projecting they could generate up to $300 billion in connectivity and edge computing revenue over the next four to six years. But the real challenge isn't technical—it's convincing millions of developers to adopt telco’s network APIs instead of sticking with what they already use.

In this episode, I sit down with Shkumbin Hamiti, Nokia's vice president of network monetization, who leads the Network as Code platform that has grown to over 50 partners since launch. We explore why winning over developers is the holy grail for network API success.

Listen now to hear:

• How Nokia's strategy differs from Ericsson's Aduna approach [04:56]
• Examples of commercial deployments that have moved beyond proof of concept [07:05]
• Why telcos need to meet developers where they are [10:46]

Links and Resources:

• Check out McKinsey’s report predicting network API’s $300 billion dollar revenue potential and its follow up piece, The future of telcos: Mapping the routes to renewed success.
• Learn about Nokia's Network as Code platform and its Acquisition of Rapid.
• Read about Nokia’s partnership with Deutsche Telekom for fraud prevention APIs.
• Learn about Globe Telecom’s partnership with Nokia for enhanced banking security.
• Check out Nokia’s partnership with robotaxi service Elmo, whose vehicles combine AI, sensors and Nokia’s network APIs to operate safely in busy urban environments.
• Watch a demo of Elmo’s remote teledriving system at MWC25 in Barcelona, where you could control a real car that was over 2,000 miles away from Nokia’s booth.
• Read about Nokia's partnership with Google Cloud marketplace for API distribution.
• Shkumbin quoted my mentor, strategic HR veteran Jim Abolt, in this interview. Check out Telco in 20 episode 103 to hear more of Jim’s perspective on change management.
• Shkumbin and I both love tennis.  Did you catch the 2025 French Open men's final between Spain’s Carlos Alcaraz and Italy’s Jannik Sinner? Their grueling match is considered one of the top 5 all time best matches. Watch highlights here.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Shkumbin Hamiti is vice-president and head of Nokia's network monetization platform business unit. He is an accomplished technology executive with 28+ years of experience spearheading transformative initiatives within the mobile and cloud industries at Nokia. He is based at Nokia’s headquarters in Espoo, Finland.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The telecommunications industry is at a crossroads, with strategic opportunities ready to reshape how operators generate revenue and compete. From network APIs, to GPU-as-a-Service (GPUaaS), to moving networks to the public cloud, telcos are weighing big bets that require capital and focus. The real challenge isn't identifying opportunities—it's knowing which ones to pursue and which to walk away from.

In this episode, I’m talking with Harrison Lung, group chief strategy officer at e& (formerly Etisalat). We're going to dive into e&'s four strategic pillars, Harrison's take on the big strategy ideas in our industry, and how the operator is applying AI behind the scenes.

Listen now to hear:

• e&’s plans for the next five years, including its 4D strategic framework [04:15];
• Harrison's take on network APIs, GPUaaS, and cloud-native networks [08:37];
• Keys to driving strategic success [11:25]; and
• The exciting new AI use cases e& is putting to the test [13:44].

Links and Resources:

• Read more about Etisalat’s rebranding to e&.
• Check out Harrison’s 2024 year-end wrap up of e&’s transformative progress.
• Read Aduna’s announcement about e& becoming an equity partner in its global network API venture.
• Learn about how e& is using AI in the Careem Super App to ensure quicker food delivery times.
• Is your telco ready to drive strategic success? Check out my blogs for tips: So, you want to be a tech-co? and Telco’s shift to the public cloud gets real.
• If you've ever visited the UAE, you can't have missed the iconic twinkling golf balls above the e& buildings—those magical spheres that shimmer like stars against the night sky, each one housing 940 tiny lenses and optical fibers that create their mesmerizing starry effect. I forgot to ask Harrison if e& will keep these beloved tributes to Etisilat!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Harrison Lung is the group chief strategy officer at e&. He was appointed in May 2023 and oversees corporate strategy and planning, mergers and acquisitions (M&A), venture capital, Group transformation, ESG and sustainability. With over two decades of experience in the telecom and technology sectors, Harrison is directly collaborating with e&'s management team and board of directors to develop the overall business strategy, set the direction of the Group and develop plans to achieve e&'s business objectives. 

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Telecom operators worldwide need to modernize their infrastructure and reduce costs. While many have been hesitant to move critical network functions to the public cloud, a growing number of visionary operators are proving that cloud-native networks aren't just possible—they're the future.

Today, I'm speaking with Mallik Rao, chief technology and enterprise business officer at Telefónica Germany, who is leading the world's first brownfield migration of a 5G core network to AWS. We dive into the technical challenges his team faced, the organizational transformation required, and why combining cloud-native architecture with Open RAN is poised to revolutionize how telcos operate.

Listen now to hear:

• Why Mallik Rao killed his first cloud migration project after 18 months; [05:08]
• How AWS redesigned its hardware infrastructure for telco workloads, creating Outpost 2.0; [06:36]
• The strategy behind disaggregating hardware and software lifecycles in RAN for maximum flexibility; and [11:19]
• Why time-to-market improvements matter more than cost savings [13:37].

Links and Resources:

• Read Telefónica Germany’s project announcement, 5G Cloud Core milestone with over one million users on the O2 Telefónica network.
• Take a look at this article on how the operator shifted customers from an Ericsson 5G cloud core to one provided by AWS and Nokia.
• Learn more about AWS’s second-generation Outposts racks.
• Check out Telefónica Germany’s Open RAN strategy and collaboration with Samsung to modernize RAN.
• Learn more about Totogi’s Charging-as-a-Service, a multi-tenant SaaS solution that delivers automatic scaling, usage-based pricing, CI/CD-driven upgrades, open APIs, and real-time event-based charging on the public cloud.
• Can your charger scale to the equivalent of 1 billion subscribers? Totogi’s Charging-as-a-Service can, and we’ve got the proof. Check out this performance benchmark whitepaper.
• Relocating for a new job can be hard! In the 1988 comedy Moving, Richard Pryor plays Arlo Pear, a man uprooting his life and family for his dream job. But when they reach their new home, they find the previous owners weren’t joking about ‘taking everything.’ 
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, a 2024 and 2025 Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Mallik Rao has been a member of the Management Board of Telefónica Deutschland Holding AG since the end of October 2019. He was initially responsible for the mobile and fixed network as well as the IT of Telefónica Deutschland in his role as chief technology & information officer. Mallik Rao has also been assigned responsibility for the business customer division and the company’s data platforms and artificial intelligence activities in his role as chief technology & enterprise officer. Mallik has more than 25 years of experience in the international telecommunications industry. He lived and worked in seven countries, bringing experience from technology providers like Ericsson and Nortel, and service providers like Vodafone and Aircel. He is passionate about working with various cultures and building technology solutions for customers. 

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The telecommunications industry has reached a critical inflection point where legacy IT systems can no longer support the demands of an AI-first world. Traditional telco technology approaches are too complex, slow, and fundamentally incompatible with the speed and agility required for modern digital services.

Today I'm speaking with Dr. Lester Thomas, head of new technologies and innovation at Vodafone Digital and IT, and a TM Forum Distinguished Fellow. Lester has driven some of the most ambitious cloud transformation projects in telecom, including Vodafone's groundbreaking data migration that consolidated servers across multiple countries into a unified cloud platform. We explore Vodafone's "Composable IT" vision and how the company is transforming its technology stack to be modular, open, and AI-ready.

Listen now to hear:

• Vodafone's data transformation that moved 17 petabytes from 600 Hadoop servers hosted in 11 countries into Google Cloud, creating the foundation for AI adoption [04:20]
• The company's strict "cloud native" definition requiring complete re-engineering rather than lift-and-shift, with 80-90% of digital workloads now truly cloud native [09:37]
• Three principles driving Vodafone's Open Digital Architecture: machine-readable standards, open-source collaboration, and proof-of-concept testing over RFPs [14:18]
• How AI is forcing complete software redesign, with Vodafone's AI Booster democratizing AI access across all business functions while maintaining governance [17:51]

Links and Resources:

• Watch Vodafone’s announcement at Google Cloud Next 2019 to rebuild their Data Ocean on Google Cloud to eliminate 600+ on-prem Hadoop servers across 11 countries.
• Check out my blogs, Vodafone is putting on a public cloud clinic and Be like Vodafone and move your analytics to the public cloud.
• Take a look at this TelcoDR Vodafone Case Study, How Vodafone Saved Nearly 70% by moving analytics platform to the public cloud.
• Read about Vodafone’s partnership with Google Cloud to process massive data volumes, enhance digital services, and drive innovation across Vodafone’s global operations.
• Check out this Google Cloud blog on how Vodafone's AI Booster project is supercharging AI & ML at scale.
• Listen to this episode of the TM Forum Inside Out podcast to learn how Open APIs spurn innovation.
• Take a look at this article from TM Forum, ODA explained: Tools for implementation and deployment.
• Watch my Gen AI Summit talk at MWC25 on Building an AI-first Telco.
• Learn more about how Totogi’s BSS Magic, powered by AI and the public cloud, enables seamless interoperability, drives innovation, and unlocks new growth.
• Lester Thomas has taken up wing foiling, an adventure sport combining sailing and flying.  Here’s what it looks like if you are inspired and want to give it a try.
• Check out a video version of this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, a 2024 and 2025 Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Dr. Lester Thomas is Head of New Technologies and Innovation and a Distinguished Engineer at Vodafone Digital. A 20-year Vodafone veteran, he leads Vodafone’s Open Digital Architecture strategy, driving innovation in Generative AI and cloud-native technologies. Lester is passionate about telecoms’ role in society and is a strong advocate for open standards and open-source. He has been recognized as a TM Forum Distinguished Fellow for his contribution to the Open Digital Architecture and Open-API initiatives. When not shaping telecom’s future, he enjoys adventurous sports, has a private pilot’s license and also enjoys sailing and other watersports.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The debate over whether telco network workloads can run on the public cloud has raged for years. While greenfield operators like DISH Wireless have demonstrated that a cloud-native 5G network is possible, critics dismiss these examples as outliers that don’t apply to established networks. But recent developments with brownfield operators and new infrastructure options are changing the conversation about what's possible.

In this episode, I'm talking with Dr. Ishwar Parulkar, Chief Technologist for Telecom at AWS. With extensive experience creating cloud solutions for telecom networks, Ishwar is at the forefront of helping operators transition their networks to cloud infrastructure.

Listen now to hear:

• How AWS has created an "edge continuum" of infrastructure options to support network workloads [05:25];
• What AWS learned from working with Telefónica Germany to run network workloads in a brownfield environment [07:31];
• How telcos are leveraging generative AI to transform customer experience, reduce operational costs, and create new revenue streams [11:41];
• Whether AI RAN workloads will be a new revenue source [15:03].

Links and Resources:

• Take a look at how Telefónica Germany successfully completed a trial to load 1 million subscribers into the public cloud. 
• Read the AWS announcement on the New AWS Outposts Rack and Server Offerings for Telcos.
• Watch my interview with Chris Penrose at NVIDIA about AI-RAN and using the extra capacity in the RAN to run AI workloads at the edge.
• Take a look at how SK Telecom built a specialized telco AI model trained with Anthropic's Claude on AWS.
• Learn more about how British Telecom is using Amazon Q to enhance developer productivity.
• Come see me June 3-4 in Windsor, England at Telecom TV's DSP Leaders World Forum. I'll be on Tuesday's panel, Leveraging AI throughout the network, and hosting a garden party that night!
• Ready for a movie night? Try this homemade popcorn recipe. 
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, a 2024 and 2025 Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Dr. Ishwar Parulkar is the Chief Technologist for Telecom and Edge Cloud at Amazon Web Services. In this role he is responsible for setting AWS technology strategy, defining new cloud services and leading initiatives to enable AWS’ edge cloud offerings and next generation telecom networks and services. Prior to AWS, Dr. Parulkar was a Distinguished Engineer at Cisco and Chief Architect for business units responsible for telecom routing, mobile packet core, small cell and network orchestration products. He was a founding member of industry-wide initiatives around mobile edge computing and 5G and the conviction that cloud technology can transform the telecom field brought him to AWS in 2016. Before Cisco, Dr. Parulkar was a Distinguished Engineer at Sun Microsystems where he led the design data center computing infrastructure, including the first multi-core processor systems and first compute virtualization platforms in the industry. He started his career at Apple, where he worked on the Mac desktop/laptop product lines and on the Newton PDA technology, which had the seeds of the iPhone revolution.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

In today's rapidly evolving tech landscape, operators struggle with change because they are held back by their legacy systems and rigid processes. Bold transformation isn't just about upgrading networks or cutting costs—it requires fundamentally redesigning how the entire organization works. The future belongs to those with the courage to drive radical change — which is absolutely necessary in the age of AI and cloud.

For this episode, I'm talking with Mark Sanders, Chief Architect and Head of Autonomous Networks and AI Enablement at Telstra, about their composable architecture. Telstra is building on TM Forum's ODA to create a revolutionary framework that arranges telco knowledge into an ontology. We dive into how Telstra is leveraging a composable architecture to build an autonomous network, and using  AI to create a future-ready organization. 

Listen now to hear:

• How Telstra's "Lego block" approach to technology architecture accelerates innovation [07:11];
• The critical shift from automated processes to truly autonomous, outcome-driven systems [08:46];
• Why developing a telco knowledge ontology is fundamental for effective AI reasoning [10:12];
• The importance of bold leadership in driving transformative organizational change [14:39].

Links and Resources:

• Read this interview with Mark Sanders on how Telstra is using composable network, cloud, IT, and data building blocks to underpin innovation and growth.
• Check out this case study about Telstra's Reference Architecture powered by TM Forum’s Open Digital Architecture (ODA)
• Watch my talk, Avoid vendor lock-in with TM Forum Open APIs, that the telco industry dinosaurs demanded to be pulled down from TM Forum DTWS event in 2021.  I guess Amdocs didn’t like being called out for not really supporting the Open APIs? Whatever I said worked: they’ve gone from 1 API supported to 35! Told you it wasn’t a technical reason they didn’t do it…
• Learn more about Totogi’s BSS Magic and use our ontology to create your digital twin. Start modeling your processes and apply AI to reduce cost, reduce friction, and increase revenue. Tier 1 telcos are already trying it out.
• Meet with Totogi at TM Forums DTW Ignite, June 17-19, in Copenhagen. Stop by our Catalyst project (C25.0.836) in the Autonomous Networks Innovation Zone, Kiosk #14, and see how we’re working with Infosys and CloudBlue. The Catalyst demonstrates AI-led simplification of telco service ordering using CAMARA, TMF, and MEF APIs.
• Mark is headed to Antarctica, a place most people will never go! Take a look at some of the amazing sites he might see.
• Mark compares his composable architecture to Lego bricks. Check out this ASMR Lego stop motion cooking video that’s insanely satisfying to watch. If only BSS was this easy! Sound on for maximum enjoyment.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, a 2024 and 2025 Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Mark is a transformational leader working in the intersection IT, Networks, Data and AI in telecommunications. Mark stands at the forefront of emerging technology for Telcos: Decoupled and composable architectures, Orchestration, APIs, AI, and Autonomous network services. Leading the innovation that will transform how Telco builds, activates, and lifecycle Services. As the Chief Architect, Mark assumes responsibility for developing comprehensive architecture strategies, and technology patterns across the enterprise and cross-domains at Telstra. In collaboration with Telco and Standards Development Organizations, he plays a pivotal role in shaping the industry and influencing Telco Architecture. Mark leads a team dedicated to providing enterprise-wide technology leadership. Their primary objectives include ensuring compliance with the Telstra Reference Architecture Model, minimizing technical debt, facilitating cross-domain decision-making, and contributing to optimal technology choices.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

In today's telco landscape, operators are struggling with legacy BSS systems that are highly customized, expensive, and impossible to change. Rather than continuing the traditional approach of swapping out systems (ouch) or simply adding AI to siloed applications, a more revolutionary solution is emerging—one that creates a digital twin of your entire telco business and applies AI across all systems simultaneously.

For this episode, I talk with Marc Breslow, Field CTO at Totogi. We're exploring how Totogi’s BSS Magic is helping telcos leverage AI without replacing their existing systems while delivering dramatic results in weeks, instead of months. Listen now to hear:

• How BSS Magic functions as a telco-specific ontological layer, not a replacement BSS system [04:12];
• Why siloed AI approaches fail when trying to solve problems that span multiple systems [05:00];
• How an Asian telco dramatically reduced their enterprise sales process time with BSS Magic [09:07];
• How the BSS Magic transforms notoriously difficult BSS migrations from a multi-year project to just a few months [12:40].

Links and Resources:

• Watch my Gen AI Summit talk at MWC25 on Building an AI-first Telco
• Read my blogs, The AI-first telco won't wait 5 years for Amdocs and How to suss out the fake agents at MWC25
• Learn more about BSS Magic on the Totogi website to say goodbye to rigid, vendor-locked BSS applications
• Check out these BSS Magic Demos on Totogi’s YouTube channel:
  • Inventory AI Agent
  • Enterprise Sales Agent Flow
  • Competitive Product Design
  • … and many more! Find more on the BSS Magic Demos playlist 
• Build your first AI Agent for free! Kick-start your transformation by working with our Forward Deployed Engineering team to customize AI agent, at no upfront cost
• If BSS Magic is breaking down the boundaries between systems, imagine what’s happening with the boundaries between functional organizations. This article talks about how companies (and the humans in them) will change in the age of agentic AI.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award and Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Marc Breslow is Field CTO of Totogi, where he is leveraging AI to revolutionize the telecommunications industry. A veteran of Accenture, Lehman Brothers, and Citibank, Marc has a proven track record of building scalable, high-performance systems. At Totogi, he leads the development of AI-powered solutions that drive tangible results for telcos: reducing churn, increasing ARPU, and streamlining business processes. Marc is responsible for customer proof points demonstrating these capabilities. When not engaging with customers, Marc leads teams building Totogi’s BSS Magic technology, generating applications and improving efficiency using AI agents and workflows.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The energy demands of artificial intelligence are skyrocketing. AI workloads are doubling every few months, pushing data centers' energy consumption beyond the capabilities of our aging grid infrastructure. As these facilities approach gigawatt-level power needs—equivalent to powering entire cities—the energy question has become the critical bottleneck for AI's future growth.

In this episode, I'm talking with Roy Illsley, Chief Analyst at Omdia who specializes in cloud and data center technologies. We explore how the world’s biggest data center owners—Amazon, Google, and Microsoft—are responding to these challenges, from renewable energy investments to nuclear power, and what it means for the industry. Listen now to hear:

• Why hyperscalers are looking to nuclear energy solutions to meet their massive power requirements [03:23];
• How Europe's data sovereignty requirements are complicating AI development in power-constrained countries [05:40];
• What opportunity telcos have with AI inferencing at the edge, and why they risk repeating past mistakes [09:20];
• The crucial software capability gap that could determine who wins in the edge AI market [12:14].

Links and Resources:

• Read Omdia’s latest reports on cloud and data centers technologies.
• Watch NVIDIA's CEO Jensen Huang’s keynote at GTC on their future rack power requirements.
• Check out this press release on Oracle’s $5 billion UK investment in cloud infrastructure.
• Learn more about Verizon’s AI edge computing initiatives. 
• Read about Microsoft's exploration of nuclear energy options, including the re-opening of Three Mile Island.
• Take a look at Google and Amazon’s investment in small nuclear reactors. 
• Listen to the previous episodes I mentioned in my Takeaway:
  • Ep 1 (Jim Abolt) It starts with…transformational leadership
  • Ep 110 (Charles Fitzgerald) Hyperscaler CapEx is going nuclear
• Homer Simpson's nuclear career takes an unexpected turn in "C.E.D'oh" when he accidentally becomes Springfield Nuclear Power Plant's CEO after impressing Mr. Burns with business jargon. His executive dreams melt down faster than uranium-235 when he discovers the job requires making tough decisions, sacrificing family time, and actually understanding nuclear physics. Guess the CEO job isn't for everyone!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award and Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Roy Illsley has over thirty-eight years of IT experience, working for a variety of consultancy and end-user companies with experience in the defence, utilities, automotive, retail, and Fast-Moving Consumer Goods (FMCG) industries. He works in the Cloud and Data Centre practice and is recognized as Omdia’s expert on Cloud, Virtualisation, and Management. He also has experience of Data Centre technologies, Quantum Computing, IT Service Management, and covers IT Strategy and Policy. His most recent reports include a series of five on the topic of edge computing, and two on the topic of sovereign cloud. In addition to the reports, he has produced white papers and carried out primary research for leading global organizations. He has delivered keynotes speeches and webinars. He has also presented at external trade events all over the world on a wide range of topics. 

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The telecom industry is adopting AI at break speed. Unlike past innovations that demanded risky network transformations and long timelines, AI-based innovation is accelerating experimentation without disrupting core networks. 

For this episode, I sat down with Kevin Shatzkamer, corporate vice president of customer experience strategy and operations at Microsoft, to explore the power of agentic AI and why it represents such a transformative opportunity for telcos. Listen now to hear:

• Why AI could be the fastest technology adoption in telecom history [03:37];
• How AI agents reimagine processes instead of retrofitting existing workflows [08:16];
• Ways Microsoft's telecom customers are putting agentic AI to work in their business [12:00]; and
• How telcos are unifying their data for deeper insights [13:17].

Links and Resources

• Take a look at Kevin’s LinkedIn post about how AI has the potential to be the fastest adopted technology in telecom history.
• Read Anthropic’s guide on building effective agents.
• Watch my talk from MWC25 on how to build an AI-first telco, and how operators need to tackle the legacy tech debt in their BSS estate to do it.
• Check out my conversations with TelecomTV and Mobile World Live about how Totogi’s AI-first solutions are delivering real revenue growth to telcos TODAY.
• Learn more about the North American operator that switched billing systems and saved big bucks with Totogi.
• Read more about Microsoft’s tools for telcos:
  • AutoGen
  • Semantic Kernel
  • Copilot Studio
  • Fabric
  • Azure AI Foundry
• How to write a book with AI tweet thread
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel. 
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award and Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
With more than two decades of software and operational experience, Kevin Shatzkamer has a record of driving transformation and innovation at scale to improve customer experiences. In his role as CVP of Customer Experience Strategy and Operations, he holds operational, technical, and customer responsibilities. His portfolio of work includes strategy and planning, market insights, business performance, learning and development technical enablement, compliance, and AI adoption within Customer Experience. He serves as an executive sponsor for new Azure commitments and other mission-critical engagements, as well as oversees onboarding and AI innovation across key customers.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

A few weeks ago I gave my FIFTH Mobile World Congress talk at the GSMA’s Gen AI Summit. More than 2,000 people RSVP’d for the event, and the room was packed with telco industry leaders eager to learn more about building an AI-first telco. 

But the big problem they have to overcome is their mountain of tech debt from their legacy BSS systems. In my talk, I explained how AI can help operators leverage their existing BSS estate and use it to drive toward an AI-first future. I’ve turned my talk into this podcast. Listen now to learn:

• The transformation that happens when intelligence moves above all your systems [04:19];
• How BSS Magic launches new products and offerings in minutes instead of months [04.55];
• Why having enterprise-wide intelligence, purpose-built for telecom, accelerates transformation [07:34]; and
• How AI can breathe new life into legacy systems and turn technical debt into a strategic advantage [08:33].

Links and Resources

• If you missed my live talk, check out the video version on our YouTube channel.
• Learn more about BSS Magic and book a demo! 
• Read GenAI for BSS systems: Telcos on the cusp of a new era, a free-to-download white paper from Appledore Research, sponsored by Totogi. 
• Check out Totogi’s announcement about how we’re ending the era of billion-dollar BSS failures.
• Watch all my MWC talks! Start with the talk that began it all, my 2021 MWC keynote, The Paradox of the Public Cloud, and then check out my: 
  • 2024 MWC MVNO Summit talk, Unveiling the AI-First Future of BSS
  • 2023 MWC talk, SUPERCHARGE your MVNO with personalization
  • 2022 MWC talk, The Public Cloud is NOW!
• Watch my interview with Ray Le Maistre from TelecomTV about all the things Totogi did at MWC25.
• The great thing about BSS Magic is you don’t have to swap off your current BSS systems to use it—it adds an AI layer above all of your existing systems to make them more powerful. It reminds me of this scene in “The Jerk” where Steve Martin doesn’t need anything… except this.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award and Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The Big Three hyperscalers each hit an all-time high in CapEx spending in 2024, collectively investing almost $200 billion. For this episode, I speak with Charles Fitzgerald, managing director at Platformonomics, whose annual "Follow the CAPEX" report tracks the cloud providers’ spending. He pulls back the curtain on what’s driving investments, how AI and nuclear power are coming into play, and whether telcos have what it takes to sell AI workload capacity at the edge. Listen now to hear:

• What happened with hyperscaler CapEx spending in 2024 [02:49];
• Insights into the Stargate project, which aims to boost AI infrastructure and know-how in the United States [7:17];
• How the cloud providers are addressing AI’s energy needs, and the role nuclear power is poised to play [11:06]; and
• Why telcos may want to think twice before betting on selling AI workload capacity at the edge [14:25].

Links and Resources

• Read Charles Fitzgerald's 2024 retrospective on public cloud CAPEX spending and check out his Cloud Reactor Tracker.
• Take a look at Charles' 2022 paper calling on big tech companies to champion nuclear energy.
• Learn more about the hyperscalers’ nuclear energy plans.
• REad about telcos’ aspirations to make money by selling AI infrastructure at the edge:
  • Verizon execs hint at making money from AI infrastructure
  • AT&T and Verizon are pivoting into the landlord biz for AI
• This is Charles’ third time as a guest on Telco in 20. He’s working his way to our 5-Timers Club! Check out the first Saturday Night Live 5-Timers club inductee, Tom Hanks, who was ushered in by Paul Simon, Steve Martin, and other special guests.
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring.

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award and Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Charles Fitzgerald is a Seattle-based angel investor, with a focus on developer platforms and infrastructure. Previously, he spent 20+ years working on platform businesses at Microsoft and VMware. He can see the cloud from his house.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The telco industry is in the midst of a GenAI revolution, with vendors and operators racing to integrate this technology into their products and services. But with all the buzz around AI capabilities, how can telcos tell which solutions can deliver real business value, and which are just marketing hype?

For this episode, I sit down with John Abraham, principal analyst and leader of the digital enablement practice at Appledore Research. We dive into how operators can identify true AI innovation, trends in BSS, and how telcos can start to address vendor interoperability challenges. Listen now to hear:

• The definition of agentic AI [04:50];
• Questions to ask to determine which vendors have great AI product visions [07:52];
• The huge problem vendor interoperability presents to telcos [11:06]; and
• How Totogi solves the interoperability problem—and DR shares Totogi's AI vision for BSS [13:52].

Links and Resources

• Read more about BSS Magic and set up a time to meet with Team Totogi at MWC25 to see it in action. 
• While you’re in Barcelona, be sure to catch my epic talk, “Building an AI-first telco,” at the Gen AI Summit in Hall 6 on Monday, March 3 … and don’t miss Totogi’s exclusive VIP party on March 5. DM me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR for an invite.
• Learn more about the North American operator that switched billing systems and saved big bucks with Totogi. 
• I’ve written a couple of awesome blogs that explain the massive problem around vendor interoperability and how AI is poised to help telcos break free. Check them out!:
  • Amdocs is ruining your business to keep their empire. AI to the rescue!
  • The AI-first telco won’t wait 5 years for Amdocs
• Read the article from Sequoia Capital about the shift from Software-as-a-Service to Service-as-a-Software, which incorporates outcome-based pricing and marks an evolution in how software companies monetize their products. 
• Headed to Barcelona for MWC25? Be sure to reserve a table at John’s and my favorite restaurants, Michelin-starred Disfrutar and Atempo. 
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award and Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

With over 16 years’ experience in the telecom industry, John Abraham is a principal analyst at Appledore Research and leads the digital enablement practice. Previously, he was at Analysys Mason for 11 years, where he led the Digital Experience research segment as Principal Analyst. He has experience working with a varied client base on topics including digitization benchmarking and procurement for CSPs; strategy and go-to market for vendors; and commercial and technical due diligence for financial institutions. Earlier, as a consultant at a BSS vendor, he led requirements gathering, solution definition, and implementation at multiple tier-1 telcos in Asia and Europe. John holds a bachelor’s degree in computer science from Anna University (India) and an MBA from Bradford University School of Management (UK).

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

TelecomTV’s DSP Leaders Council is a hand-picked group of ~100 industry experts (including moi) that weighs in regularly on the state of the telco industry. A recent survey of Council members on the topic of Digital Support Systems (DSS) revealed that operators are grappling with mixed feelings about AI, with some dragging their feet on AI adoption, and others racing toward an AI-driven future. Today, I’m talking about the survey findings with TelecomTV Editorial Director Ray LeMaitre. We dig into where telcos are making progress, what’s holding them back, and what needs to happen to spark industry-wide AI transformation. And you know with Ray—it’s not a conversation unless we talk about COFFEE! Listen now to hear:

• The good news about operators and startup BSS solutions [4:40];
• Why the habit of waiting to be "ready" for change might leave slow-moving telcos on the sidelines [8:20];
• The shocking percentage of telcos that don’t see AI as essential to their future [10:24]; and
• Plans for the DSP Leaders Council and survey topics going forward [13:49].

Links and Resources

• Learn more about TelecomTV’s DSP Leaders Council and its DSP Leaders Reports.
• Read my blog about the DSS report findings, 3 key takeaways from TelecomTV’s DSS report—one will surprise you.
• When Ray and I first met, I compared myself to Daenerys Targaryen from the blockbuster TV series Game of Thrones, because let’s face it, sometimes you need to walk through fire to get stuff done in telco. Check out this scene when Daenerys becomes the mother of dragons (warning: explicit scenes, but it’s epic so I’m putting in the show notes anyway!).
• If you’re like Ray and love dark-roasted, Latin American coffee, check out this video about the best way to brew it.
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award and Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Ray Le Maistre was appointed Editorial Director at TelecomTV in April 2020. He has been an editor and journalist covering the telecoms sector for 29 years, previously as Editor-in-Chief at Light Reading, where he worked for 18 years. He is based in the UK, owns too many flowery shirts, and will bore you to tears on the topics of films, football, and coffee if you give him half a chance.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

As artificial intelligence (AI) adoption accelerates across the telco industry, operators are grappling with a big challenge: how to empower employees with transformative AI tools while ensuring responsible use. For this episode, I’m talking with McKinsey & Company Partner Ferry Grijpink who leads the global consulting firm’s Center for Advanced Connectivity within the Technology, Media & Telecommunications Practice. As one of the authors of a recent report, Responsible AI: A Business Imperative for Telcos, he has ideas on how telcos can find the right balance between innovation and managing risk. Listen now to hear:

• The definition of Responsible AI and how it comes into play for telcos [02:27];
• How to balance responsible behavior with innovation [04:28];
• Guidance on guardrails and policies that can encourage responsible use across your teams [08:58]; and
• How organizations can track AI usage and cost [12:56].

Links and Resources

• Read McKinsey & Company’s recent report, Responsible AI: A Business Imperative for Telcos
• Find out more about McKinsey’s Center for Advanced Connectivity
• Ferry has been a guest on Telco in 20 two other times. Check out these great episodes for more of his valuable insights:
  • Episode 83: Monetizing Network APIs
  • Episode 45: Drumming up ways to increase ARPU with McKinsey
• Ferry is famous for his scarves, but they can be hard to style. Check out this video on all the ways to tie a scarf. 
• My trademark: my Golden Goose sneakers! Don’t judge me on the cost; I save money by not buying heels! 👠 I’m partial to the Mid-Star; with their wingtip styling in the front, they qualify as business wear. Check them outI
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award and Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Ferry Grijpink leads the McKinsey Center for Advanced Connectivity within McKinsey & Company’s Technology, Media & Telecommunications Practice, and advises telecommunications companies on strategy, marketing, and operations, including mobile operators that are launching adjacent businesses in areas such as mobile health and money services. He also co-leads McKinsey’s research on deploying and commercializing next-generation infrastructures, such as fiber, mobile broadband, and 5G networks.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

The telecom industry got a jolt of excitement in December 2024 when Alianza, a nimble cloud communications company, swooped in to buy Metaswitch from Microsoft. The deal promises to breathe new life into Metaswitch's legacy soft-switch technology while giving telcos a clear path to cloud modernization. For this episode, I’m talking with Brian Beutler, founder and CEO of Alianza, about why Alianza made this bold move and what’s next for Metaswitch customers. Listen now to hear:

• Three reasons why Alianza pursued the MetaSwitch acquisition [03:00];
• How it plans to create stability for customers and let them define their own cloud journey [05:13];
• How the company plans to manage 5x growth [09:05]; and
• The role AI will play in Alianza’s expanding portfolio [12:24].

Links and Resources

• Check out Alianza’s announcement about its deal to buy Metaswitch from Microsoft.
• Read more about the acquisition:
  • Fierce Network Exclusive: Alianza buys Metaswitch from Microsoft in deal years in the making
  • Fierce Network Op-Ed: Alianza resurrects Metaswitch from Microsoft grave
  • Telecoms.com: Microsoft sells Metaswitch to Alianza
  • Light Reading: Alianza buys Metaswitch from Microsoft
  • UC Today: Telco 4.0 – Alianza’s Ambitious Deal Could Reshape the Market
• Visit the Alianza website to learn more about the company.
• Listen to my Telco in 20 conversation with Brian from March 2024, Ep 87 - scaling telcos’ cloud mountain with Alianza.
• As with any acquisition being merged into a startup, there are going to be a lot of decisions Brian will have to make with the newly acquired company. A handy (and classic!) book I’d recommend reading is The Innovator’s Dilemma by Clayton M. Christensen. Brian will have a large Metaswitch customer base to support that’s still on legacy, old-school tech while he’s simultaneously investing in new tech with the Alianza product. It won’t be easy!
• Ready to see how AI and the public cloud can transform your telco? Give Totogi a call!
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award and Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Brian Beutler is the founder and CEO of Alianza, the leading cloud communications platform for telco service providers. He is passionate about transforming the telecommunications industry by empowering service providers to deliver modernized, cloud-native core communications solutions to supercharge growth, simplify operations and reduce costs. Under Beutler’s leadership, Utah-based Alianza has forged a strategic collaboration agreement with AWS and counts Lumen Technologies, Brightspeed, Viasat and Xplore among its tier-one and nationwide customers. 

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Most telcos use only a small portion of their available network capacity on an average day, but what if telcos could turn this underutilized asset into a new revenue stream? For this episode, I talk with Chris Penrose, NVIDIA’s global vice president of business development for telco, about how the company’s AI-RAN concept is poised to help telcos build efficiency and boost the bottom line. Listen now to hear:

• The goals of NVIDIA’s collaboration on the AI-RAN Alliance [04:25];
• The astonishing results of a NVIDIA-SoftBank AI-RAN field trial—including estimated profit margins of 220% for every AI-RAN server added [06:26];
• The company’s efforts to build a sovereign, foundational LLM for Indonesia [12:12]; and
• How other telcos can start to cash in on their unused network capacity and AI’s potential [14:42].

Links and Resources

• Read about how NVIDIA and SoftBank designed the world's first combined AI and 5G network that runs telecom and AI workloads simultaneously.
• NVIDIA also launched a major initiative in Indonesia to develop sovereign AI capabilities tailored for the nation’s 277 million Indonesian speakers.
• Learn more about the AI-RAN Alliance, a collaboration by NVIDIA and other tech, industry, and academic institutions that aims to use AI to advance RAN technology and mobile networks.
• Ready to see how AI and the public cloud can transform your telco? Give Totogi a call!
• Chris and I both love the Texas food scene, so we were thrilled when the MICHELIN Guide started ranking restaurants in our home state recently. But right out of the gate, it made a HUGE miss by leaving Uchi in Austin off the list. No other place comes close! Chris also has two top dining picks in Dallas: Town Hearth and Gemma, which was a MICHELIN Guide Bib Gourmand pick for 2024.
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel. 
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award and Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Chris Penrose works across the telco ecosystem to drive the growth of NVIDIA’s hardware and software solutions around the world. He helps to create telco-specific offerings that leverage AI/ML, Gen AI, 5G/6G, edge/cloud computing, and advanced networking. He also works with telcos to create sovereign GenAI factories for their nations. Prior to joining NVIDIA, as the COO of FogHorn, Chris led the go-to-market efforts across business development, technical sales, strategic partnerships, third-party distribution, marketing, advertising and public relations globally. 

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

I recently sat down with Jillian Forde on “The Official AWS Podcast”  to talk about how Totogi’s AWS-first charging-as-a-service solution helped restore mobile connectivity to 23 million subscribers in Sudan during a crisis. For this episode, I’m bringing a condensed version of our conversation to listeners to spread the word on how having a cloud-native solution can mean the difference between complete service disruption and business continuity. Listen now to hear:

• How Totogi's AWS-first architecture helped us restore mobile connectivity in 18 days [03:32];
• Why choosing AWS services like DynamoDB and Lambda over cloud-agnostic solutions was crucial for our success [07:56];
• How the public cloud transforms disaster recovery from an expensive, rarely-tested backup into an efficient, cost-effective solution [13:39]; and
• Why regulated industries need to embrace public cloud now to take advantage of generative AI and stay competitive [16:19].

Links and Resources

• Check out the original, uncut version of my conversation with Jillian Forde on The Official AWS Podcast.
• Learn more about how Totogi Charging-as-a-Service can help you to eliminate your charger’s unused disaster recovery set up to quickly failover when you need it, only paying for what you use.
• Check out our case study on our work with Zain Sudan.
• I also talked about our remarkable work in Sudan with Ali Hussein Kassim, host of Ali Talks Tech in episode 95. Give it a listen!
• Buy Totogi’s Charging-as-a-Service on the AWS Marketplace. Start at $0.01 per month!
• One of my favorite movies about attending a business conference is “Cedar Rapids,” about naive insurance agent Tim Lippe (Ed Helms) who has never stayed in a hotel, never flown in a plane, and has never left his tiny Wisconsin hometown. Tim meets three veteran attendees (John C. Reilly, Anne Heche, Isiah Whitlock Jr.), who coerce him into a life-altering weekend of wild times and sweet temptation. It’s hilariously awesome!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the transcript for the episode here.

Wanna talk public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios Royston, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Artificial intelligence (AI) is poised to transform telco, but many operators are struggling to fully embrace its potential. This episode’s guest, strategic HR veteran Jim Abolt, believes they need a critical shift in thinking to reach their goal to become AI-first organizations. He shares insight into what most companies are getting wrong about AI transformation, and offers a practical framework for using AI to achieve breakthrough business results. Listen now to hear:

• Why starting with "let's go do AI" is the wrong approach [04:34];
• A framework for successfully rolling out AI across your organization [06:59]
• Jim's refreshingly honest take on AI's impact on jobs [10:07]
• Why AI tools have to become integrated with employees' daily work rather than separate initiatives [14:07]

Links and Resources

• Need help with telco AI use cases that drive business value? Give Totogi a call. We can show you how to Change the Work and get your employees using and loving AI.
• Check out these resources to help you put AI to use the right way in your org:
  • Ep 101 – Anthropic’s BIG PLANS for telco
  • Ep 96 – How TELUS turned its data swamp into an AI oasis
  • If you focus on business value, AI pays for itself
  • Getting AI right is hard 🚀
  • 10 examples of how telcos are using AI (BESIDES customer support!)
• Jim has appeared on Telco in 20 more than any other guest, including on our very first episode back in October of 2020. Maybe I should start a Five Timer’s Club, like on Saturday Night Live! Listen to his other episodes next: 
  • Ep 7 – The HR Series: Telcos, get ready for workforce transformation
  • Ep 1 – It starts with…transformational leadership
• I love this brilliant ad from Fiverr that shows exactly what’s wrong with using AI only for AI’s sake. 
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Jim Abolt is a retired HR executive who is widely regarded as an expert in leadership development, culture shaping, and large-scale organizational change. His career spanned multiple industries, disciplines, and continents. Starting as a labor relations specialist in a Midwest steel mill, he ultimately held global senior management positions with leading companies in the consumer packaged goods, pharmaceutical, and software development industries. Jim holds an A.B. from Dartmouth College, and a J.D. and M.A. from the University of Illinois.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

A recent Infosys report found that telcos use only 48% of the cloud services they commit to. Fortunately, the Big 3 hyperscalers offer significant discounts to enterprises that commit to spending targets, helping operators reel in cloud costs. A great example is Amazon Web Service’s (AWS) Enterprise Discount Program (EDP). But many telcos leave millions on the table by not using the right strategies and tools to capture these savings.

For this episode, I talk with Brandon Pizzacalla, CEO of CloudFix, to talk about how operators can maximize the benefits they get from AWS’s Enterprise Discount Program (EDP). Listen now to hear:

• The biggest mistakes enterprises make when negotiating EDP with AWS [02:55];
• Why ignoring "long-tail" expenses leaves millions on the table [06:25];
• How CloudFix uses AI to uncover hidden optimization opportunities [08:40]; and
• Innovative ways to get your team to invest in cost optimization strategies [11:07].

Links and Resources

• Learn more about CloudFix.
• Read this case study about how a company that spends $50 million per year with AWS saved ~$28 million over three years with CloudFix.
• Don’t forget to check out the exclusive TelcoDR/CloudFix partnership that can save you even MORE money.
• Read more about AWS’s Enterprise Discount Program, and similar offerings from Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud.
• Brandon’s favorite pizza crust is stuffed crust. If you don’t know, this type of crust is usually stuffed with cheese. Confession: I’ve never actually tried a stuffed crust; now there are all sorts of different varieties ranging from “grilled cheese” to “pepperoni stuffed” to “hot dog stuffed” (EW!). It was first introduced to the world in March 1995 by none other than Donald Trump.
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast won 2024 and 2022 Hermes Awards, 2023 and 2022 MarComm Awards, and was recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast. We’re also ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Now! 🎉

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Brandon Pizzacalla, CEO of CloudFix, has a robust history of building and scaling SaaS companies, driving innovation, and delivering impactful results.Before taking the helm at CloudFix, he co-founded and led an AI-driven sales engagement platform, guiding the company to $3.5 million ARR, listing notable firms like Xero and HelloFresh as clients. He exited the business in 2023 shortly after it was acquired by a private equity firm. Brandon brings valuable mergers and acquisitions (M&A) and corporate strategy experience to CloudFix from his tenure at Bell Canada. During his time there, he was involved in transactions totaling over $9 billion.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Artificial intelligence (AI) is transforming industries at breakneck speed, with new capabilities emerging almost daily. As telcos race to harness its potential, questions around ethical use, safety, and practical implementation loom large. 

In this episode, I dive deep into the world of AI with Neerav Kingsland, head of business development at Anthropic, makers of the AI model Claude. The company is known for its use of "constitutional AI”—an approach that builds ethical guardrails into its AI systems. Listen now to hear:

• Why Anthropic's approach is centered on ethical AI behavior [04:04];
• The company’s work with SK Telecom to create an “AI-first” telco [09:45];
• The potential for AI to dramatically improve personalized marketing [12:03]; and
• Just how powerful AI models will become in the next few years [14:11].

Links and Resources

• Learn more about Anthropic and its use of constitutional AI.
• Read more about the company’s $100 million deal with SK Telecom.
• Watch how SK Telecom plans to become an “AI-first telco”.
• Check out the GSMA’s Responsible AI Maturity Roadmap, which is designed to help operators evaluate and enhance their AI practices. 
• Learn more about Amazon Bedrock. 
• Find out how Totogi’s BSS Magic and PlanAI can help you turbocharge personalized marketing.
• I write a lot about AI and telco. Check out these blogs to help you put AI to use in your org:
  • Getting AI right is hard 🚀
  • If you focus on business value, AI pays for itself
  • 10 examples of how telcos are using AI (BESIDES customer support!)
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast won 2024 and 2022 Hermes Awards, 2023 and 2022 MarComm Awards, and was recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast. If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Neerav Kingsland is the head of business development at Anthropic. Prior to Anthropic, he was an executive coach to founders working on AI safety. Before working in AI, Neerav was the Managing Partner of City Fund, a national philanthropic organization backed by Reed Hasting, Steve Ballmer, and John Arnold. City Fund was created to scale the strategies that helped transform New Orleans public schools after Hurricane Katrina, where Neerav was a key leader. He is a graduate of Tulane University and Yale Law School.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

This podcast has hit a major milestone—the 100th episode! Can you believe it? Did you know that only 7% of all podcasts make it to this number?

We've talked cloud, crushed myths, and pushed boundaries for 100 straight. But we're just getting started. I’ve dropped an episode every two weeks over the last four years, and during that time I've witnessed a dramatic shift in telcos’ attitude towards public cloud adoption. This special episode revisits key moments on the journey that highlight just how far we've come. Let’s celebrate the progress we've made together! Listen now to hear:

• How sentiment about the public cloud has moved from deeply skeptical to optimistic [02:59];
• The groundbreaking moves made by major telcos like DISH, AT&T and Telefónica Germany [08:48];
• Why moving network workloads may be the key to true public cloud transformation [13:29]
• How Totogi deployed a cloud-based charging system for a tier-one telco in crisis—in just 18 days! [14:16]

Be sure to listen to the end for the super funny DR BLOOPER REEL! 

Links and Resources

• Here’s the talk that started it all—my MWC21 keynote, The paradox of the public cloud, and check out the highlight reel from our time in Barcelona, including a tour of our mind-blowing CLOUD CITY.
• Check out all the Telco in 20 podcasts featured in this episode with these amazing guests:
  • Ep 1 – It starts with…transformational leadership with strategic HR leader Jim Abolt
  • Ep 92 – The state of cloud in telco with Iain Morris from Light Reading with International Editor Iain Morris
  • Ep 45 – Drumming up ways to increase ARPU with McKinsey with McKinsey & Company Partner Ferry Grijpink
  • Ep 44 – DISH: The Telco Pioneer with DISH Wireless Chief Network Officer Marc Rouanne
  • Ep 76 – Into the Nexus of GenAI with Microsoft with Microsoft Chief Technology Officer for Worldwide Telecommunications Industry Rick Lievano
  • Ep 87 – Scaling telcos’ cloud mountain with Alianza with Alianza Founder and CEO Brian Beutler
  • Ep 93 – The NETWORK will be the reason telcos move to the public cloud with senior telecom executive and transformation leader Juha Korhonen
  • Ep 95 – African telcos: forge a new path! with entrepreneur, commentator, and host of the Ali Talks Tech podcast Ali Hussein Kassim
• Ericsson bailing on #MWC21 was a big mistake (HUGE!) that I pounced on—just like in Pretty Woman. Amazing how a little bit of money can really change your look.
• While a lot of telcos are still ramping up their efforts to get to the public cloud, my buddy Elon Musk has his sights set on Mars and plans to get there in just two years! Check out this Starship launch, the fourth flight test attempting to go farther than any previous one.
• Are you still here??? In the famous words of Ferris Bueller, GO HOME! IT’S OVER!
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast won 2024 and 2022 Hermes Awards, 2023 and 2022 MarComm Awards, and was recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast. If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

TM Forum's Open Digital Architecture (ODA) and open APIs are aimed at revolutionizing telco BSS/OSS systems, and with successful adoption, they promise to enhance vendor interoperability. But implementing them comes with significant challenges for operators and vendors alike.

In this episode, I sit down with Caroline Chappell, founder and director of ccsquared and a former partner at Analysys Mason. We dive into the history and goals of ODA and open APIs, explore the real-world challenges operators face in putting them to work, and discuss why the data layer is crucial for true vendor interoperability. Listen now to hear:

• How ODA aims to help operators build systems from best-of-breed components, and what challenges stand in the way [04:17];
• Why the data layer is even more critical than standardized APIs for telecom operations [09:03];
• Why procurement practices need to change to truly support innovation in the industry [13:32]; and
• The disruptive power that combining LLMs and ODA can bring to telco BSS [14:50].

Links and Resources

• Learn more about TM Forum’s ODA and open API initiatives.
• Check out my interview with Ray LeMaistre from TelecomTV about harmonizing data structures and Totogi’s deployment at Zain Sudan, where our cloud-based charger replaced an incumbent system in just 18 days.
• Watch my epic MWC24 MVNO Summit talk about BSS Magic and the AI-first future of telco business support systems.
• Download this case study about how Vodafone saved nearly 70% by moving its analytics to the public cloud.
• We're counting down to the 100th episode of Telco in 20 and celebrating with a special episode dropping October 1. Don’t miss it—like and follow today!
• I love watching Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response (ASMR) videos of power washing courtyards, trimming overgrown lawns, and cleaning hoarders’ homes. What’s wrong with me?
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast won 2024 and 2022 Hermes Awards, 2023 and 2022 MarComm Awards, and was recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast. If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Caroline Chappell is a leading expert in the application of new software technologies – cloud, open APIs and AI – to telecoms networks and their operations. She has over 35 years of industry experience as a software engineer, research analyst and consultant. She is an influential advocate for the cloudification of the network and its evolution as a platform, the capabilities of which can be consumed as a service. Caroline was most recently a partner at Analysys Mason but has founded ccsquared to investigate the new and disruptive network architecture needed for tomorrow’s AI and extended reality-driven world.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

In 2007, Safaricom PLC (Safaricom) and Vodafone invented M-PESA, a mobile payment system that has transformed financial services in Kenya and beyond by bringing banking capabilities to unbanked populations. M-PESA has become a cornerstone of the Kenyan economy and helped Safaricom build a reputation for innovation. 

In this episode, I'm talking with Fawzia Ali, chief consumer business officer at Safaricom. We discuss the success of M-PESA, the company’s efforts to use AI and machine learning for continued innovation, and how it’s preparing its workforce for an AI-driven future. Listen now to hear:

• How M-PESA simplicity and wide distribution changed the game for unbanked populations [02:12];
• How Safaricom is using AI and ML to create hyper-personalized plans [06:52];
• The power of starting with small cohorts of customers and iterating quickly [09:45]; and
• How Safaricom is boosting employees’ AI know-how and fostering a culture of AI innovation [13:00].

Links and Resources

• In 2015, American television news show 60 Minutes told the story of M-PESA’s success, and in June of this year, Forbes continued the story with the article, M-PESA: Why the world’s first large mobile payment platform keeps on winning.
• Earlier this year, Fawzia wrote an article for Marketing Africa Magazine called Learn, Unlearn, Relearn about the importance of setting personal and professional goals and learning new skills. Look for it on page 8.
• Ready to unlock the power of your data and supercharge your customer experience? Listen to my MWC23 MVNO Summit Talk, SUPERCHARGE your MVNO with personalization where I talk about how you can use ML and hyperpersonalization to drive new revenue.
• Fawzia and I both have a special relationship with shoes, and she’s even talked about her passion for them in this video from Engage+.
• My go-to shoes are Golden Goose mid-stars: They have wingtip styling like a man’s business shoe. They’re my “business sneaker.”
• Watch this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast won 2024 and 2022 Hermes Awards, 2023 and 2022 MarComm Awards, and was recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast. If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Fawzia Ali is a transformational commercial leader in the FMCG and telecommunications sectors, currently serving as the chief consumer business officer at Safaricom PLC, a leading technology company in Africa. With an impressive track record of success and a deep understanding of the ever-evolving consumer landscape, Fawzia plays a pivotal role in shaping Safaricom's customer-centric strategy and driving the company's growth in the competitive technology sector. She leads a diverse and talented team focused on creating value for Safaricom's customers.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson