Stillbirth Happens - Let's Talk – Details, episodes & analysis

In this episode, we speak with Helen, whose daughter, AnaRose, was stillborn 17 years ago. We learn about how this experience shaped the way Helen navigates the world, how it transformed who she is, and how she sees herself now. We will also hear from Anya, a registered clinical counselor, to learn how grief impacts us overtime. Together, Helen and Anya share how stillbirth changes us forever.



Your feedback is important to us. Please share your thoughts on this episode of Stillbirth Happens - let's talk by participating in this survey. Thank you for your participation.

Episode Notes:

Butterfly Run Vancouver

Butterfly Run Vancouver perinatal loss support group

Anya Mostrenko – registered clinical counselor

(mailto:anyamostrenkocounselling@gmail.com)

Become a Butterfly Run race day volunteer

Bereavement box: a box used for storing mementos that may be personalized with the baby’s name, picture or some other design element. Bereavement boxes can provide a special place to keep memory aids. Contact your local hospital to speak with a social worker if you are interested in donating items for a bereavement box.

“Grief is like the ocean”, quote by Vicky Harrison

Compound grief: also known as cumulative grief; occurs when several losses pile up over one another.

Ambiguous loss: when a baby is stillborn, parents and family members may struggle for years to find out why the baby died, if answers even exist. Surviving siblings may grieve a baby who died before they were born. Society may dismiss stillbirth as an invisible death, yet the grief parents and families experience after a stillbirth can be lifelong.

Mourning rituals: ways of honouring your child such as taking pictures, making molds of their hand and foot prints, and/or saving a lock of their hair.

Continued bonds: connection that extends beyond the life of a loved one. Examples of continuing bonds include using your baby’s name in stories, keeping a journal about them, wearing jewellery, or visiting places that remind you of them.

Self activism: the sense of empowerment that follows a loss as one seeks to change the world around them for the better. Some examples include raising awareness of, and reducing the stigma around stillbirth, advocating for improved care for the bereaved, and offering support to

other bereaved parents.

Complicated grief: ongoing, heightened state of mourning that keeps you from healing. Symptoms may include: intense sorrow, emotional pain, and rumination over the loss of your loved one.

“You don’t know how strong you are until being strong is your only choice”, quote by Bob Marley

Stillbirth Happens – let’s talk

(http://www.bcwomens.ca/health-info/pregnancy-parenting/stillbirth-newborn-loss/podcast-stillbirth-happens)

After the loss of your baby

(http://www.bcwomens.ca/health-info/pregnancy-parenting/stillbirth-newborn-loss)

Glossary

Placental abruption: The placenta is a round organ that forms in the early part of pregnancy in the uterus. It supports the growth and well-being of the pregnancy in a number of ways through its connection to the developing baby through the umbilical cord. Placental abruption occurs in 1 in 100 people when the placenta separates from the wall of the uterus too early,

before the baby is born.

Hemorrhaging: The loss of a lot of blood in a short period of time. This can occur for various reasons during pregnancy and childbirth. Bleeding may happen internally (inside the body) or externally (outside the body). 

Hemorrhaging from placental abruption: Placental abruption may cause hemorrhaging. 

D&C: Dilation and curettage (D&C) is a procedure to remove tissue from inside the uterus through the cervix.

Low iron levels from hemorrhaging: It is common to have low iron levels after a placental abruption with hemorrhaging. When this happens you may feel weak, short of breath or lightheaded.

The grief journey has no timeline and so, for bereaved parents, the first year can be especially tough, because it's full of missed milestones: first tooth, first steps, first birthday. In this episode, we chat with Emma Hansen about how she coped after her son, Reid, was stillborn. She reflects on how she managed the first year missing Reid, and how she and her family found meaningful ways to honour him. We discuss why it’s important to let yourself ‘sit in the shit of it’ and why even when you are grieving, you are still living.

Your feedback is important to us. Please share your thoughts on this episode of Stillbirth Happens - let's talk by participating in this survey. Thank you for your participation.

Notes:

Blog: Born Still but Still Born by Emma Hansen

Still: A Memoir of Love, Loss and Motherhood by Emma Hansen

Second Firsts by Christina Rasmussen

On Death and Dying (1969) by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross; includes her framework of 5 stages of grief which include anger, denial, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. 

The 5 stages of grief and other lies that don’t help anyone by Megan Devine

Reid’s Reads by Emma Hansen, family and friends

Donating milk after stillbirth

(http://www.bcwomens.ca/our-services/labour-birth-post-birth-care/milk-bank/donating-milk)

Reid’s Corner

Grief is love with no place to go, quote by Jamie Anderson 

On Being with Krista Tippett: Guest Rachel Naomi Remen “How we live with loss”. Original aired August 11th, 2005

Stillbirth Happens – let’s talk

(http://www.bcwomens.ca/health-info/pregnancy-parenting/stillbirth-newborn-loss/podcast-stillbirth-happens)

After the loss of your baby 

(http://www.bcwomens.ca/health-info/pregnancy-parenting/stillbirth-newborn-loss)

Lactation after loss 

(http://www.cw.bc.ca/library/pdf/pamphlets/BCW1465_LactationAfterLoss.pdf)

Glossary:

Cervidil® (dinoprostone) – a medication delivered through a vaginal insert that assists with labour by softening the cervix and preparing it for birth.

When it comes to stillbirth, bereaved parents often have questions. Sometimes, there are no good answers. This lack of clarity can give rise to powerful emotions, including confusion, anger, and guilt. Today we'll hear from Courtney Hiller. Courtney and her husband Jasyn made the difficult decision to terminate their pregnancy after their son Luca was diagnosed with multiple health conditions that were incompatible with life. Courtney shares how her questions evolved over the weeks and months after Luca's stillbirth. We’ll also hear from OB/GYN Megan O’Neill, whose own son, George, was stillborn at 33 weeks. Megan provides insight into how she helps families deal with questions that arise after stillbirth, and how she supports patients through the process of stillbirth and during pregnancies that follow loss. Courtney and Megan demonstrate how to use our voices to ask questions, find answers, and seek support from community and others with lived experience of stillbirth. 

Your feedback is important to us. Please share your thoughts on this episode of Stillbirth Happens - let's talk by participating in this survey. Thank you for your participation.

Notes: 

Spina bifida myelomeningocele - https://www.canchild.ca/en/diagnoses/spina-bifida

Chiari II malformation - https://neurosurgery.med.ubc.ca/programs/pediatric-neurosurgical-service/chiari-malformation-syringomyelia-program/

Severe hydrocephalus - https://braininjurycanada.ca/en/caregiver/about-brain-injury/hydrocephalus/

Folic acid and neural tube defects (like spina bifida) - https://www.spinabifidaassociation.org/resource/folic-acid/#:~:text=Folic%20acid%20is%20a%20B,can%20significantly%20reduce%20the%20risk

Mamas for Mamas - https://www.mamasformamas.org/

T.F.M.R. Mamas - https://www.tfmrmamas.com/

After the Loss of Your Baby - http://www.bcwomens.ca/health-info/pregnancy-parenting/stillbirth-newborn-loss

Stillbirth Happens: Podcast - http://www.bcwomens.ca/health-info/pregnancy-parenting/stillbirth-newborn-loss/podcast-stillbirth-happens

In this episode, we’ll hear from Erin Sowerby Greene, who learned, at 37 weeks pregnant, that her daughter Briar no longer had a heartbeat. We’ll also hear from Anne-Marie Cayer, a registered midwife supporting families living in urban and rural, remote, and Indigenous communities, about practices bereaved families should be able to access after a stillbirth. Erin and Anne-Marie teach us that although hospital procedures can vary from region to region, babies who are stillborn are still born and it’s possible – even necessary – to bring dignity and meaning to the experience.

Your feedback is important to us. Please share your thoughts on this episode of Stillbirth Happens - let's talk by participating in this survey. Thank you for your participation.

Episode notes:

Book referred to: Alan D. Wolfelt.(2001). Healing Your Grieving Heart: 100 Practical Ideas. Compassionate advice and simple activities to help you through your loss. Companion Press, CO. www.centerforloss.com

After the Loss of Your Baby:

http://www.bcwomens.ca/health-info/pregnancy-parenting/stillbirth-newborn-loss

Lactation After Loss:

http://www.bcwomens.ca/health-info/pregnancy-parenting/stillbirth-newborn-loss

Informal Milk Sharing:

http://www.perinatalservicesbc.ca/about/news-stories/stories/informal-human-milk-sharing

Stillbirth Happens: Podcast:

http://www.bcwomens.ca/health-info/pregnancy-parenting/stillbirth-newborn-loss/podcast-stillbirth-happens

Nonstress test (NST) is a screening test used in pregnancy to assess the baby’s heartbeat patterns. It can show heart rate changes when the baby moves and may show changes when the uterus contracts, such as happens during labour.

CuddleCots are small, portable, lightweight units that enable families experiencing the loss of their baby at any age or gestation to spend more time together. The unit is connected to a hose and mat. The baby is placed on top of the mat which ensures that the baby remains cool. A CuddleCot was not available to Erin and Cameron after Briar was born which limited the amount of time they could spend with her. As a result of their experience, Erin and Cameron started a fundraising campaign to purchase Cuddlecots for local communities in Briar’s memory and to give other families the gift of more time with their babies. Read more about their CuddleCot fundraiser here.

This episode is all about breaking the silence to recognize that stillbirth is part of the maternity journey. We speak with Jennifer Kuznetsov whose first baby, Andrey, died unexpectedly at 29 weeks gestation. Jennifer talks about the shock and disbelief she felt after learning Andrey had no heartbeat, and how she wishes she had been better prepared for such a traumatic event. We'll also hear from Kirsten Duckitt, a retired OB/GYN, about why there's still so much silence surrounding stillbirth. Stillbirth happens more frequently than people think.

Your feedback is important to us. Please share your thoughts on this episode of Stillbirth Happens - let's talk by participating in this survey. Thank you for your participation.

After the loss of your baby

CW Library - Lactation after Loss

Dry Creek Mountain View Cemetery Infant Graves Area

Transcript

Quote by Earl A. Grollman – “Grief is love’s unwillingness to let go”

Many people struggle to talk about stillbirth. Friends and family members may feel awkward discussing it. Some clinicians shy away from it. Bereaved parents may be left feeling isolated and alone. Co-hosts Jaime and Erin – mothers whose babies were stillborn – talk truth about stillbirth. Together with guests, they explore topics such as the nature of grief and loss, the hospital experience of stillbirth, and navigating life after stillbirth – all in a welcoming and safe audio space. Through stories of lived experiences, Stillbirth Happens – let’s talk hopes to normalize the conversation about stillbirth and give those touched by it a place to learn, grieve and feel connected.

In this episode, we learn from Leah Riske, the non-gestational parent to Maddux, who was born still in 2023, about her unique experiences of family planning with her wife, Sara, and teaching their older son, Nolan, about his younger brother. We also hear from Cora Beitel, midwife and owner of the Strathcona Midwifery Collective, about how important it is for providers to not make assumptions about the needs of families. Meeting the needs of each unique family means listening to and learning from clients and patients and taking time to self-reflect.

Key Insights

[3:42] “Nolan was a two-round IVF baby...” 

• In vitro fertilization (IVF) is a complex series of procedures that can lead to a pregnancy. During IVF, mature eggs are collected from ovaries and fertilized by sperm in a lab. Then a procedure  is done to place one or more of the fertilized eggs, called embryos, in a uterus, which is where a pregnancy develops. 
• One cycle of IVF usually involves one month to assess the uterus, another month to suppress  ovarian function, and then 2 weeks of ovarian stimulation that may lead to egg retrieval. The eggs retrieved may undergo a procedure to be frozen, may be fertilized in the lab, or transferred to a uterus. For many, a single cycle of IVF, involving the preparatory month, is a 2–3-month process.
• One full cycle of IVF takes about 2 to 3 weeks. A 2 or 3 round IVF cycle means that eggs are collected from 2 or 3 consecutive cycles and fertilized; the best quality embryos are then transferred in a final procedure and any additional embryos can be frozen and stored for later use.  

[5:25] “...my wife decided at that point to be induced and then just have a natural birth with medics.” 

• “Natural birth with medics” refers to delivering Maddux vaginally with the support of medication.  

[31:20] “...it was a cord accident for Maddux.” 

• The term “cord accident” is often used when a baby dies before birth and the umbilical cord  appears to be involved, but it’s important to understand that this is a non-specific and informal  term, not a clear medical diagnosis. The phrase “cord accident” refers broadly to situations in  which the cord’s function may have been compromised enough to affect the baby’s oxygen  supply, possibly leading to stillbirth. 
• Umbilical cord abnormalities, such as a tight cord around the neck (nuchal cord), true knots, or  cord prolapse, can sometimes interfere with oxygen flow. However, many of these findings—especially nuchal cords—are common and usually harmless. A nuchal cord is found in about  one-third of births and, in most cases, does not cause any harm to the baby. When the cord is  unusually compressed, twisted, or positioned in a way that repeatedly cuts off oxygen, it may  contribute to a rare but tragic outcome. It’s important to recognize that while the cord can sometimes play a role in stillbirth, most cord findings are not dangerous, and using the term “cord accident” can sometimes oversimplify complex causes of fetal loss that are not yet well understood in the medical community.

Resources 

• Return to Zero HOPE: Partners’ Grief: A Unique Experience Blog 
• Return to Zero HOPE: Resources for LGBTQ+ Families 
• Companion Website: LGBTQ+ Reproductive Loss 
• Words of Advice: LGBTQ+ Reproductive Loss 

Magazines/stories 

• USA Based: Resources on pregnancy loss, stillbirth and infant loss for LGBTQ+ parents
• USA Based: Empty Arms Bereavement/LGBTQ Resources 
• Sue Ryder: Supporting the LGBTQ+ community through grief and bereavement

Books 

• Reproductive Losses: Challenges to LGBTQ Family-Making 

Podcasts 

• River’s Story, Lesbian Parenting and Travelling with Grief with Jaimie-Lee Roy

Academic articles 

• Stories of Grief and Hope: Queer Experiences of Reproductive Loss
• Pregnancy Loss In Lesbian And Bisexual Women: An Online Survey Of Experiences
• Breaking the Silence: Infertility, Motherhood, and Queer Culture 

Videos 

• Loss in the LGPTQ+ Community 
• Trans and Gender Diverse Family Building for Providers

In this episode we hear from Andrew Lockhart, a father of six whose third child–his son Wilder– was stillborn in 2017. Andrew talks about how he supported his family while juggling work as he  grieved. We also hear from Brandon Drouillard, a pregnancy and infant loss educator who talks about how a father’s grief can be overlooked during stillbirth. Together, Andrew and Brandon give voice to the experiences dads have grieving their stillborn babies and supporting their families. 

Key Insights

[10:33] “We were really lucky. We got, we had access to a CuddleCot TM. We were able to  spend some time with Wilder and really process the loss of him.” 

• CuddleCotsTM provide continuous regulated cooling enabling families extended time to take  photos, create memories, welcome extended family, receive support and make arrangements  without feeling rushed. 

[20:38] “My name is Brandon Drouillard and I work for the Pregnancy and Infant Loss  Network as Education Coordinator and a pregnancy and infant loss educator”. 

• The Pregnancy and Infant Loss Network (PAIL) is an Ontario, Canada-based provincial program  that provides free, peer-led support to families who have experienced pregnancy loss at any  stage or the death of a baby up to 12 months of age. Operating under Sunnybrook Health  Sciences Centre DAN Women and Babies Program, PAIL Network offers various support  services, including community-based and online peer support groups, to help grieving families  connect and heal.  
• Read more about Brandon Drouillard, PAIL Network Education Coordinator.

[27:49] “There's not a lot of support out there, you know, for people who experience the loss of a child like this, like I can't even remember if Kim was able to get her maternity  benefits through EI at that point”.  

• Employment Insurance (EI) Maternity Benefits in Canada provide financial support for up to 15 weeks to eligible birth parents, including surrogates, who cannot work due to pregnancy and  childbirth.

Resources

• Pregnancy and Infant Loss Network Resource Library 
• Article: A grief ignored: narratives of pregnancy loss from a male perspective 
• Article: Men’s grief following pregnancy loss and neonatal loss: a systematic review and  emerging theoretical model 
• Book: The Way Men Heal 
• Book: Grieving Beyond Gender: Understanding Diverse Grieving Styles 
• Book: Grieving Dads: To the Brink and Back 
• Book: Loving Your Baby 
• Magazine: Still standing: A father’s grief 
• Website: Fatherly.com (search: “pregnancy loss”)

In this unique episode we hear from Jaime and Erin’s children and learn about their experiences of stillbirth as siblings. Marissa (19 years old), Gracie (17 years old) and Quinn (13 years old) speak their own truth about what it is like to grow up as living children in a household touched by stillbirth. We also hear from Andrea Warnick, registered psychotherapist, about how to support children as they process death and how to keep a stillborn baby present in family life.

Show notes and resources

[5:33] “And I was like, that was like, that doesn't look like a Playland wristband, that looks like a hospital wristband”

• Playland is Vancouver's oldest and most famous amusement park, located at the Pacific National Exhibition (PNE) fairgrounds. It offers a wide variety of rides, attractions, midway games, and food options.

[7:17] “Yeah. When you guys all got home, your mom has also shared that there was some play therapy that she had you in. Do you remember going to play therapy?”

• Play therapy is an approach to therapy, primarily used with children, that uses the power of play to help process emotions, address social, emotional or behavioural difficulties and achieve optimal growth and development. It is particularly effective for younger children who may lack the verbal skills to express themselves directly, as play serves as their means of communication.

[8:07] “The play therapy did teach me a thing called heartstrings, and when I felt like sad or just, I missed my mom, or I felt like I didn't have any control over my life, I would pull my heart strings, and my mom would pull her heart strings, and then we would be connected.”

• “Heartstrings” is a form of play therapy based on the popular book, The Invisible String. In the story, a mother tells her two children that everyone is connected by an invisible string made of love. "Even though you can't see it with your eyes, you can feel it deep in your heart". It is used as a tool for coping with all kinds of separation anxiety, as well as loss and grief, to help children understand they are always connected to the ones they love.

[33:28] “There's this great quote that for kids, it's sort of like puddle jumping, you know, and they're in it, and it's huge, and then they jump out and they play and have fun.”

• Puddle jumping is a term created by Carla Mitchel to describe how children grieve. Children hop in and out of grieving just like they hop in and out of puddles. It can look like they do not grieve. They grieve a bit and then go on playing. Children do not have the capacity to hold that much pain all at once. Their nervous systems cannot handle the intensity of grief, so they go in and out of it.

[33:37] “And then for adults, it's like they're in this leg just wading through this ocean of grief. I believe it's Julie Stokes from Winston's Wish, who said it that way, and I think she's right on.”

• Julie Stokes Winston's Wish Adults grieving can be described like canoeing in a river. They tend to stay in their emotions for longer periods. Their nervous systems can handle it. While adults can sit in grief for longer, they always come out of it too.

[34:03] “I sometimes refer to our 2-3-4-year-olds as our most disenfranchised grievers that get quite quickly pushed to the sidelines, because sometimes people feel like, well, they're too young, so we don't even have the conversations with them.”

• Disenfranchised grief refers to grief which arises, but the loss is not socially recognized or supported. This can lead to feelings of isolation and unrecognized pain. Examples include grief following the death of a former spouse or grief for victims of a mass tragedy in which you did not know anyone personally but are deeply affected.

In this episode, Erin shares the story of her daughter, Ryann, who was stillborn in 2010 reflecting on the choices her family faced and the journey of bringing Ryann home from BC to Manitoba. Funeral director Nathan White joins the conversation to explain how funeral homes can support grieving families after stillbirth. Together, Erin, Jaime, and Nathan highlight the importance of memorializing babies who are stillborn and ensuring families receive the care and compassion they deserve.

Episode Notes:

[8:59] “We got a phone call to come in shortly after supper time to be induced”.

Inducing labour means a healthcare provider uses medical methods (medications) to start contractions and begin labour before it starts naturally.

[12:47] “So I did actually have a Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep photographer…”

Since 2005, Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep has gifted families experiencing the loss of a baby volunteer photographers who conduct intimate portrait sessions to capture moments between the baby and family. The professional-level photographers are present in over 40 countries worldwide.

[16:15] “So after Ryann was born, we had found out that she had died because of the cord wrapped around her neck four times. We pretty much had to be in the perfect situation of being in the hospital, the proper doctors around everything, and maybe nobody knows what would have happened. So, complete cord accident”.

The term “cord accident” is often used when a baby dies before birth and the umbilical cord appears to be involved, but it’s important to understand that this is a non-specific and informal term, not a clear medical diagnosis. The phrase “cord accident” refers broadly to situations in which the cord’s function may have been compromised enough to affect the baby’s oxygen supply, possibly leading to stillbirth.

Umbilical cord abnormalities, such as a tight cord around the neck (nuchal cord), true knots, or cord prolapse, can sometimes interfere with oxygen flow. However, many of these findings—especially nuchal cords—are common and usually harmless. A nuchal cord is found in about one-third of births and, in most cases, does not cause any harm to the baby. When the cord is unusually compressed, twisted, or positioned in a way that repeatedly cuts off oxygen, it may contribute to a rare but tragic outcome. It’s important to recognize that while the cord can sometimes play a role in stillbirth, most cord findings are not dangerous, and using the term “cord accident” can sometimes oversimplify complex causes of fetal loss that are not yet well

understood in the medical community.

[16:32] “There were no CuddleCotsTM in the hospital at that time”.

CuddleCotsTM provide continuous regulated cooling enabling families extended time to take photos, create memories, welcome extended family, receive support and make arrangements without feeling rushed. 

[18:44] “So I learned that Nathan had to get paperwork done up to transport a dead body between province to province to province to province…”

Air transportation of human remains

Transporting human remains in Canada

Ground transport of embalmed human remains in Canada

After a death: first steps after someone dies (British Columbia)

[31:51] “Actually the year that we moved home, her next birthday was actually her champagne birthday”.

A champagne birthday is the birthday when your age matches the day of the month you were born on, for example, Ryann’s champagne birthday was her 12th birthday on June 12.