Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power is an investigative podcast exploring the rise of the Vineyard movement - from a humble network of churches to a sprawling global empire. Through in-depth research and firsthand accounts, this series examines how power, influence, and ambition shaped the movement's evolution, often at the expense of those who trusted it most. From its early days under John Wimber to its modern-day scandals, Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power uncovers the hidden costs of empire-building within evangelical Christianity and the well-meaning individuals caught in the crossfire.
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Chapter 1 : Planting a Vineyard: The House that Wimber built
Season 1 · Episode 1
Tuesday, May 6, 2025 • Duration 31:58
Episode Description:
In the premiere episode of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, host John Williamson shares the deeply personal story that became the catalyst for this investigative series—an account of sexual assault, institutional betrayal, and buried pain that would remain unacknowledged for decades.
As John began asking questions, a pattern emerged: a movement that began as a radical, Spirit-led network of churches evolved into something more recognizable—something hierarchical, brand-driven, and ultimately, deeply flawed.
We go back to the beginning: the roots of the Vineyard Movement, the vision and influence of John Wimber, the explosive success of Vineyard Worship, and how the pursuit of growth slowly began to eclipse the movement’s original values.
This episode sets the foundation for the rest of the series, as we begin to explore how empire building, lack of accountability, and systemic failures created conditions that harmed real people—and continue to do so.
🔊 Audio Credits:
This episode includes a brief excerpt from a sermon by John Wimber, used under fair use for educational and journalistic purposes.
→ Education, survivor stories, and recovery resources.
⭐️ If you found this episode impactful:
Please consider subscribing, rating, and reviewing the show. It helps others find the podcast and supports this work. And if you know someone who needs to hear this—share it.
Next Episode Tease:
In Episode 2, we begin our deep dive into Michael and Brenda Gatlin—their rise to power in the Vineyard Movement, the red flags along the way, and how they created the conditions for something devastating to unfold.
Hosted & Produced by:
John Williamson
Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power is an independent investigative podcast.
Disclaimer:
Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power is a work of investigative journalism. It includes allegations and opinions based on interviews, public documents, media reports, and other sources. All individuals mentioned are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
This podcast is not affiliated with Vineyard USA or any religious organization. Names, events, and quotes are used for reporting and documentary purposes under fair use and public interest protections. The creators of this series have taken care to verify information where possible and present commentary in a good-faith effort to inform the public.
Some episodes contain references to sexual abuse, spiritual trauma, and other sensitive topics. Listener discretion is advised.
Welcome to Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power - a limited investigative podcast that explores the rise and reckoning of one of the most influential church movements of the last 50 years: the Vineyard.
This teaser sets the tone for what's to come - a deeper dive into the dangerous intersections of church, power, and empire building. Through firsthand accounts, leaked recordings, and careful investigation, we'll ask the hard questions many have been afraid to voice.
What happens when the Spirit-led becomes brand-driven? And what kind of fruit grows when empire becomes the goal?
Subscribe now and be ready when the first episode drops!
Credits: Archival audo exerpted from a sermon by John Wimber, used under fair use for educational and commentary purposes. Original source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUG8r66OjVo
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@SpoiledFruitPod
Website: www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com
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If this work matters to you, consider sharing the show, leaving a review, or supporting us through a donation.
In this episode, we investigate how the Vineyard Movement’s obsession with growth metrics, married co-leadership structures, and lack of accountability mechanisms created the perfect conditions for abuse and systemic failure.
We dive into how these dynamics directly set the stage for the rise of Michael and Brenda Gatlin at Duluth Vineyard—highlighting the early warning signs of toxic leadership, ignored reports, and the cultural factors that prioritized expansion over the safety of congregations.
This is where the cracks beneath the surface began to split wide open.
Topics Covered:
• Recap of Vineyard’s explosive growth under John Wimber and the rise of Vineyard Music.
• How Vineyard USA tracks growth metrics—similar to corporate performance systems.
• How married couples dominate leadership roles within the movement—and why that creates built-in conflicts of interest.
• The lack of consistent church governance, board accountability, or standardized bylaws across Vineyard churches.
• The illusion of local church “autonomy”—and how it’s applied inconsistently.
• The rise of Michael and Brenda Gatlin at Duluth Vineyard through measurable growth and national influence.
• Early signs of spiritual abuse and toxic leadership behaviors by the Gatlins.
• The ignored warning letter sent by Pastor Ryan Bauers to Vineyard USA in 2014.
• How systemic weaknesses within Vineyard leadership structures enabled long-term damage.
Key References and Resources:
• Duluth Vineyard’s public timeline and updates regarding leadership issues:
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Chapter 3: The Protected Son
Season 1 · Episode 3
Monday, May 12, 2025 • Duration 26:50
Episode Summary:
In this episode, we examine the devastating consequences of unchecked power within the Vineyard Movement, focusing on the story of Jackson Gatlin—son of Duluth Vineyard’s senior pastors Michael and Brenda Gatlin.
We explore the early warning signs ignored by leadership, the conflicts of interest that allowed Jackson to rise unchecked, and the culture of silence that protected him for years. We also unpack how Duluth Vineyard eventually broke from the pattern of institutional cover-up by reporting allegations to law enforcement, despite resistance from Vineyard USA leadership.
This is a story not just about one family’s failure—but about a system designed to protect itself at the expense of the vulnerable.
Topics Covered:
• Who Jackson Gatlin was, and the early red flags during his teenage years.
• Brenda Gatlin’s push to place Jackson in ministry despite concerns.
• Jackson’s involvement in youth ministry and later HLI (Heroic Leadership Institute).
• A buried misconduct report involving allegations of spiritual abuse (Brenda) and sexual harassment (Jackson) sent to Vineyard USA.
• The pivotal moment when a former youth group member came forward—and how John Kliewer reported it to police.
• Vineyard USA’s internal pushback against Duluth’s independent investigation efforts.
• Jackson Gatlin’s arrest, conviction, and the subsequent civil lawsuits.
• The systemic failures in Vineyard USA’s leadership and accountability structures.
Key References and Resources:
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Full Interview: Ryan Bauers
Season 1
Wednesday, May 14, 2025 • Duration 31:39
🎙️ Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power – Full Interview: Ryan Bauers
In this full-length interview episode of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, we sit down with Ryan Bauers, former Vineyard pastor in Duluth, Minnesota, who in 2014 formally raised concerns to Vineyard USA about Michael and Brenda Gatlin—years before their son Jackson was placed into leadership or arrested for sexual misconduct.
In this powerful and personal conversation, Ryan reflects on what led him to speak up, how his concerns were received, and the emotional and spiritual toll that came with being a voice of warning inside a system not prepared to listen.
This interview is part of our extended series of full, unedited conversations with key individuals whose testimonies are essential to understanding the culture, breakdowns, and missed opportunities for accountability inside the Vineyard movement.
⚠️ Content Warning:
This episode includes discussions of spiritual and emotional abuse, leadership misconduct, and the mishandling of abuse reports. It may include strong language and emotionally difficult content. Please listen with care.
🔗 Stay Connected:
Subscribe to Spoiled Fruit for more full interviews and extended conversations with key voices from across the Vineyard movement.
Follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok: @spoiledfruitpod
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Full Interview: Kris Sauter
Season 1 · Episode 4
Friday, May 16, 2025 • Duration 01:36:21
🎙️ Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power – Full Interview: Kris Sauter
In this special bonus episode of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, we share the full, unedited interview with Kris Sauter, former youth pastor at Duluth Vineyard.
Kris worked closely with the Gatlin family for years. In this conversation, he speaks candidly about what he witnessed from the inside—the early red flags, the power dynamics, and how the church’s leadership culture allowed misconduct and manipulation to go unchecked.
His perspective is crucial to understanding how abuse within Duluth Vineyard unfolded and how national leaders failed to respond—despite years of warning signs.
This is one of several full-length interviews being released throughout the series to offer deeper context and allow key voices to be heard without interruption.
⚠️ Content Warning:
This episode contains conversations about spiritual, emotional, and sexual abuse, as well as references to institutional mishandling of misconduct. It may also contain occasional strong language. Listener discretion is advised.
🔗 Stay Connected:
Subscribe to Spoiled Fruit for future full interviews and bonus content, including upcoming conversations with Ryan Bauers, Brian Metzger, and others who’ve helped shape this investigation.
For more, visit
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Chapter 4: God Told Me To
Season 1 · Episode 4
Monday, May 19, 2025 • Duration 28:15
Episode 4: “God Told Me So”
When personal revelation becomes a shield for power, who pays the price?
In this episode of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, we examine the rise of Alan and Kathryn Scott—from their beginnings at Causeway Coast Vineyard in Northern Ireland to their controversial takeover of Anaheim Vineyard, the flagship church of the Vineyard movement. What began as a ministry rooted in spiritual fervor became a vehicle for unchecked authority, manipulation, and silencing of dissent.
Through firsthand accounts and extensive reporting, we uncover how Alan Scott’s insistence that he was hearing directly from God allowed him to bypass accountability, override governance structures, and consolidate power in ways that left congregants and staff confused, hurt, and in some cases, spiritually traumatized.
We explore:
• The red flags from Northern Ireland that went unheeded
• The leadership dynamics in Anaheim following the Scotts’ arrival
• Parallels between the Scott and Gatlin stories
• The role of worship platform culture and figures like Jeremy Riddle
• Why Vineyard USA didn’t intervene—and what that says about their systems
💬 Special Thanks
This episode wouldn’t be possible without the honesty and courage of those who agreed to share their experiences. We want to extend our deepest gratitude to everyone who trusted us with their stories—many of whom are speaking publicly for the first time.
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Full Interview: Attorney Spencer T. Kuvin Esq.
Season 1
Wednesday, May 21, 2025 • Duration 38:02
🎙️ Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power – Full Interview: Spencer Kuvín
In this special bonus episode, we share the full, unedited interview with Spencer Kuvín, the Florida-based attorney representing multiple victims in the ongoing civil litigation connected to Duluth Vineyard, Vineyard USA, Michael and Brenda Gatlin, and Jackson Gatlin.
Spencer brings not only deep legal insight to the conversation, but also years of experience advocating for survivors in nationally significant abuse cases—including clients connected to Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Cosby.
In this wide-ranging conversation, Spencer discusses:
• How early warning signs were ignored
• What the legal case reveals about institutional patterns of protection
• Why survivors so often face retaliation when they speak up
• And what true accountability in a faith-based system might actually require
This interview offers essential context for understanding the legal and structural failures at the heart of this story—and what it means for the Vineyard movement and beyond.
⚠️ Content Warning:
This episode includes discussion of sexual abuse, spiritual abuse, emotional trauma, and ongoing legal proceedings involving high-profile defendants. It may also contain strong language. Listener discretion is advised.
🛑 Legal Disclaimer:
The views and experiences shared in this episode reflect those of the individuals interviewed and do not necessarily represent the official position of any organization, past or present. This podcast is intended for informational and storytelling purposes only and should not be interpreted as legal, clinical, or professional advice. If you or someone you know has experienced abuse in a religious or institutional context, please seek support from licensed professionals and survivor-centered organizations.
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Full Interview: Rebecca Hopkins
Season 1
Friday, May 23, 2025 • Duration 40:08
📍 Episode Summary:
In this episode of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, host John interviews Rebecca Hopkins, an investigative journalist renowned for her in-depth reporting on abuse and misconduct within evangelical churches. Rebecca discusses the challenges of investigating religious institutions, the patterns of abuse she has uncovered, and the importance of accountability in faith communities.
🔗 Resources & Further Reading:
• Rebecca Hopkins’ Articles on Religion Unplugged: Explore her investigative pieces on various religious institutions and figures.
• The role of investigative journalism in uncovering abuse within religious institutions.
• Challenges faced when reporting on powerful religious figures and organizations.
• The importance of independent media in holding faith communities accountable.
• Insights into the patterns of misconduct within evangelical movements.
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Chapter 5: The Fine Print of Obedience
Season 1 · Episode 5
Monday, May 26, 2025 • Duration 38:27
🎙️ Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power – Chapter 5: “The Appearance of Change”
After years of warning signs, three independent investigations were launched—GRACE, Trusted HR, and Guidepost Solutions—each tasked with uncovering what went wrong in churches like Duluth Vineyard and Causeway Coast Vineyard, and within Vineyard USA itself.
In Chapter 5, we take a closer look at what these investigations found, what they recommended, and how the churches and national leadership responded… or didn’t. We compare the actions taken by Duluth, Coleraine, Vineyard USA, and Vineyard UK & Ireland—and ask whether the reforms put in place are truly meaningful or simply cosmetic.
We also examine the new bylaws, employee handbook, conflict of interest policy, dating policy, and child protection policy that Vineyard pastors have been asked to sign. What protections are missing? Who holds the power now? And what happens when churches—like Ann Arbor, Duluth, and Raleigh—begin to push back?
⚠️ Content Warning:
This episode includes detailed discussion of spiritual, emotional, and sexual abuse, and the mishandling of misconduct in church settings. It may also include strong language. Listener discretion is advised.
🛑 Legal Disclaimer:
The views and experiences shared in this podcast are those of the individuals interviewed and do not necessarily reflect the official position of any organization, past or present. This podcast is for storytelling and informational purposes only and should not be interpreted as legal, clinical, or professional advice. If you or someone you know has experienced abuse in a faith-based setting, we encourage you to seek support from qualified professionals and survivor-advocacy resources.
Support this podcast at — Advertising Inquiries: Privacy & Opt-Out:
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• Rate and review the show to help amplify survivor stories.
• Share this episode with friends, church leaders, or anyone grappling with issues of faith, power, and institutional accountability.
• Follow John Williamson for updates, bonus content, and behind-the-scenes insights.
Disclaimer:
Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power is a work of investigative journalism. It includes allegations and opinions based on interviews, public documents, media reports, and other sources. All individuals mentioned are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
This podcast is not affiliated with Vineyard USA or any religious organization. Names, events, and quotes are used for reporting and documentary purposes under fair use and public interest protections. The creators of this series have taken care to verify information where possible and present commentary in a good-faith effort to inform the public.
Some episodes contain references to sexual abuse, spiritual trauma, and other sensitive topics. Listener discretion is advised.
• Rate and review the show to help others find it.
• Share this episode with friends, family, or anyone exploring issues of faith, power, and accountability.
• Follow John Williamson for updates on future projects.
Disclaimer:
Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power is a work of investigative journalism. It includes allegations and opinions based on interviews, public documents, media reports, and other sources. All individuals mentioned are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
This podcast is not affiliated with Vineyard USA or any religious organization. Names, events, and quotes are used for reporting and documentary purposes under fair use and public interest protections. The creators of this series have taken care to verify information where possible and present commentary in a good-faith effort to inform the public.
Some episodes contain references to sexual abuse, spiritual trauma, and other sensitive topics. Listener discretion is advised.
The views and experiences shared in this episode are those of the individuals interviewed and do not necessarily reflect the official position of any organization, past or present. This podcast is intended for informational and storytelling purposes only and should not be interpreted as legal, therapeutic, or professional advice. If you or someone you know has experienced abuse in a faith-based or institutional setting, please seek help from qualified professionals and survivor-advocacy organizations.
🎙️ Credits:
Guest: Ryan Bauers, former Vineyard pastor, Duluth, MN
Follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok: @spoiledfruitpod
🛑 Legal Disclaimer:
The views and experiences shared in this episode are those of the individuals interviewed and do not necessarily reflect the official position of any organization, past or present. This podcast is intended for informational and storytelling purposes only and should not be interpreted as legal, therapeutic, or professional advice. If you or someone you know has experienced abuse in a faith-based or institutional setting, please seek support from qualified professionals and survivor-advocacy resources.
🎙️ Credits:
Guest: Kris Sauter, former youth pastor at Duluth Vineyard
This episode wouldn’t be possible without the honesty and courage of those who agreed to share their experiences. We are incredibly grateful to everyone who trusted us with their stories—many of whom are speaking publicly for the first time.
Thank you to:
🗣️ Brian Metzger, lead pastor at Raleigh Vineyard
🗣️ Rebecca Hopkins of The Roys Report, whose consistent and careful reporting helped illuminate key details of the Anaheim Vineyard story and provided a foundation for further investigation.
Your voices help shine a light where silence has prevailed for far too long.
🎧 Listen & Subscribe
Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you listen to shows.
📣 Spread the Word
If this episode resonated with you, please consider rating and reviewing the show, sharing it with a friend, or posting about it using the hashtag #SpoiledFruitPodcast.
It’s time to ask why we excuse the bad fruit.
Disclaimer:
Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power is a work of investigative journalism. It includes allegations and opinions based on interviews, public documents, media reports, and other sources. All individuals mentioned are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
This podcast is not affiliated with Vineyard USA or any religious organization. Names, events, and quotes are used for reporting and documentary purposes under fair use and public interest protections. The creators of this series have taken care to verify information where possible and present commentary in a good-faith effort to inform the public.
Some episodes contain references to sexual abuse, spiritual trauma, and other sensitive topics. Listener discretion is advised.
• Subscribe to Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power: Stay updated with the latest episodes and discussions.
• Follow us on Social Media: Engage with our community and share your thoughts.
⚖️ Legal Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of the guest and host and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any affiliated organization or institution.
All individuals mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. While every effort has been made to verify the information shared in this episode, listeners are encouraged to do their own research and draw their own conclusions.
This episode may discuss allegations of abuse, misconduct, or other sensitive topics. Listener discretion is advised.
Nothing in this episode should be construed as legal advice. If you or someone you know has experienced abuse or misconduct, we encourage you to seek support from qualified professionals or legal counsel.
