Explore every episode of the podcast Sounds of SAND
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
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| Rooted Action: Starhawk & Rae Abileah | 24 Sep 2026 | 01:00:07 | |
Earth, Spirit, and Collective Empowerment Recorded live at a SAND Gathering on September 13, 2026 In a time of profound ecological and social upheaval, we are invited to remember something ancient: we are not separate from the living world. The Earth is not a backdrop to our lives, but the ground from which we arise, and a source of wisdom for navigating profound change. Author, activist, permaculture teacher, and elder wisdom keeper Starhawk joins Rae Abileah to explore how earth-based spirituality, ritual, imagination, and the wisdom of living systems can help us meet this moment. Following each film in SAND's The Eternal Song series, we hear a recurring question, particularly from people of European descent: how do we reconnect with land, ancestry, and the sacred? How do we live in meaningful allyship with Indigenous peoples while recovering our own earth-based ways of knowing? Starhawk's life and work offer possibilities. Rooted in Pagan earth-based practice while honoring her Jewish ancestry, her journey has carried her from ritual circles and permaculture communities to accompaniment in Palestine and engagement with Indigenous land protection movements. After more than five decades exploring spirituality, ecology, and social transformation, Starhawk is asking a new question: what would a regenerative movement look like? And how might we move beyond simply resisting what is broken to cultivating belonging, agency, resilience, joy, and new possibilities for life? Together, Rae and Starhawk explore what living systems teach us about transformation, how spirituality and strategy can nourish one another, and how imagination helps us practice futures that do not yet exist. They consider how to keep ancestral and ecological intelligence alive amid the rise of artificial intelligence, and how to remain awake to profound injustice without surrendering our capacity for beauty, relationship, pleasure, and joy. Topics
Author, activist, permaculture designer and teacher, and one of the most influential voices in contemporary earth-based spirituality and ecofeminism. She is the author or co-author of thirteen books and a co-founder of Reclaiming. She directs Earth Activist Training, teaching permaculture design grounded in spirit with a focus on activism.
Books mentioned
Social change strategist, Jewish faith leader, facilitator, and former co-director of CodePINK. She connects relational threads across the SAND team and helps create resources supporting The Eternal Song film series. Also in the conversationStanding Rock, 2016, and what Starhawk found at the gate: here you enter a place of prayer and ceremony. The fire chant from her Sonoma County land: Sacred fire that shapes this land, summer teacher, winter friend, protect us as we learn anew, to work, to heal, to live with you. The five core emotional needs she names as the foundation of movement building: safety, belonging, value, agency, and meaning. The Othering and Belonging Institute at UC Berkeley, referenced in the discussion of moving beyond call-out culture. Penny Livingston, with whom Starhawk co-founded Earth Activist Training. From SAND
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| Nuance of Wonder: Joan Tollifson | 17 Sep 2026 | 01:00:50 | |
Joan Tollifson returns to the podcast three years after her first conversation. We talk about her June essay Two Inseparable Truths, on the relative and the absolute and the trouble with getting stuck in either one. Along the way: the silence of many nondual teachers in a dark time, what cancer and an aging body insist on that philosophy cannot, and why "I don't know" may be the answer closest to truth. She closes by reading her essay 'Radiant Light in Dark Times' in full. Topics
Joan Tollifson Joan Tollifson has been writing and talking about nonduality for decades, with roots in Zen and Advaita and a background that also includes radical nonduality, contemplative inquiry, addiction recovery, martial arts, somatic work, and visual arts. Before all of that came years of political organizing: the feminist movement, gay and lesbian liberation, disability rights, the anti-imperialist left, and Central America solidarity work. Born without her right hand and forearm, she wrote about it in her first book, Bare-Bones Meditation. She is 78 and lives in southern Oregon. She has been a frequent speaker at SAND gatherings over the years. The two essays discussed
Her books
Also in the conversation Douglas Harding, whose approach to headlessness Joan cites as an example of what she calls zooming out. Father Arthur Polen, the Catholic monk whose painting Radiant Light, made after 9/11, hangs on her wall and gives the closing essay its title. Huang Po, quoted in the essay: it is that which you see before you, begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error. SAND's AI series, referenced in the discussion of artificial intelligence, including the conversation with Tristan Harris. Robert Moor's In Trees, the book about trees, family trees, and hierarchical trees that comes up near the end. His episode is here. Previously on Sounds of SAND
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| AI & Colonial Logic: Christian “ZacaTechO” Ortiz & Thema Monroe-White | 10 Sep 2026 | 00:51:03 | |
Part of SAND’s The Great AI Unraveling Series Artificial intelligence is often framed as a leap forward, a technical revolution, or an inevitable stage in human progress. But what if AI is also asking us to confront something older: the colonial logic embedded in how we define intelligence, progress, neutrality, knowledge, and the human itself? This conversation brought together voices working across technology, culture, race, power, and society to examine what AI reveals about the systems that built it. Rather than treating bias as a technical glitch, this conversation asks what must be unlearned at the level of worldview, institution, data, design, and collective imagination. Facilitated by Christian “ZacaTechO” Ortiz, this dialogue explored AI through a decolonial lens asking necessary questions: Whose knowledge is extracted? Whose futures are optimized away? Whose bodies are surveilled? Whose intelligence is dismissed? And what can liberated knowledge make possible beyond colonial technology? This is not a conversation about making machines more ethical within the same old systems. It is an invitation to question the systems themselves, and to imagine intelligence beyond extraction, domination, and control. Topics
Christian ZacaTechO Ortiz is an Afro-Indigenous decolonial social scientist and technologist. He is the founder of Justice AI GPT and author of the Decolonial Intelligence Algorithmic Framework. He studies how colonial systems still shape law, education, entertainment, and our bodies. The name ZacaTechO came from his father, after the family's origins in Zacatecas. Dr. Thema Monroe-White is Associate Professor of Artificial Intelligence and Innovation Policy in the Schar School of Policy and Government and the Department of Computer Science at George Mason University. Her work spans bias mitigation in AI, critical computational methods, and emancipatory data science. She holds a PhD in Science, Technology and Innovation Policy from Georgia Tech, and master's and bachelor's degrees from Howard University. She is an advisory board member and fellow of the Institute in Critical Quantitative and Mixed Methodologies. The research discussed
Francis Galton, who coined the term eugenics and whose statistical methods underpin modern machine learning. R.A. Fisher and William Shockley are named alongside him. The Nama and Herero genocide in Namibia, 1904 to 1908, discussed as a precursor to the Nazi Holocaust, and the site Galton had visited fifty years earlier. Tristan Harris is referenced on AI systems behaving unpredictably. His conversation with SAND is The Great AI Unraveling. Contact SAND
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| The Flow of Coherence: Cynthia Li | 03 Sep 2026 | 01:03:29 | |
Dr. Cynthia Li joins us to talk about her new book, The Medicine of Flow. Trained as an internist, Cynthia developed an autoimmune condition and then chronic fatigue and dysautonomia, illnesses largely dismissed at the time as being in her head. Her own body pushed her out of the paradigm she was trained in and into functional medicine, qigong, and intuitive healing. A decade later, a second crisis took her back to housebound and taught her what all her effort hadn't: coherence, and what she calls embodied flow. We talk about surrender that isn't passivity, why nervous system regulation is only part of the picture, and how coherence moves between bodies. Guest Cynthia Li, MD, is a physician who moved from public health to integrative medicine and intuitive healing, with earlier work at Kaiser Permanente's HIV/AIDS group, San Francisco General Hospital, St. Anthony Clinic, and Doctors Without Borders in rural China. A certified qigong teacher and healer since 2014, she has served as faculty for Rachel Remen's Healer's Art program at UCSF, and her story appeared in Dr. Kelly Turner's Radical Remission documentary. She is the author of Brave New Medicine and The Medicine of Flow (May 2026). Timestamps
Books and practices
Find Cynthia
Going deeper
Contact SAND
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| The Dance of Exile & Settlement: Bayo Akomolafe | 27 Aug 2026 | 01:27:29 | |
Full interview with Dr. Bayo Akomolafe, recorded by SAND founders Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo. Edited portions appear in The Eternal Song; this is the whole conversation. Bayo moves from his childhood in Lagos to the Orisha who wanted only to travel, from the psychologist's couch he calls too small a space for healing, to the nets slave ship captains strung along their hulls to stop people from jumping. Along the way: why decolonization isn't individual work, why wellness might be a net rather than a cure, what a monster does to a world that's stuck, and the story of a dried African lake whose dust still feeds the Amazon. Topics
Bayo Akomolafe Yoruba philosopher, psychologist, poet, and writer. Founder and Executive Director of The Emergence Network, host of the postactivist course series We Will Dance with Mountains, and inaugural Global Senior Fellow of UC Berkeley's Othering and Belonging Institute. He is a board member of Science and Nonduality.
From SAND Liberation Psychology: Roots, Memory & Practice The Eternal Song Contact SAND
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| The Unbroken Thread: Pir Zia Inayat Khan | 20 Aug 2026 | 01:02:47 | |
Pir Zia on the secret history of the world From a nondual perspective, aren't the world's great spiritual traditions expressions of a single living wisdom? In this intimate conversation, Pir Zia Inayat Khan explores the inspiration behind Tears from the Mother of the Sun, a sweeping mythic chronicle of sages, exiles, and revelations spanning continents and planes of existence. Drawing on sacred stories from Persia, India, Egypt and beyond, the book weaves the world's legends into a vision of humanity's shared spiritual inheritance. Together we discover the place of myth in a modern world, the imagination as a path of knowing, and the role of our deepest stories in restoring a sense of belonging to one another, to the Earth, and to the mystery that animates us all. Topics
Pir Zia Inayat Khan, PhD, is a scholar of religion and teacher of Sufism in the universalist Sufi lineage of his grandfather, Hazrat Inayat Khan. He is president of the Inayatiyya and founder of Sulūk Academy, a school of Sufi contemplative study and practice. He divides his time between Richmond, Virginia and Suresnes, France. The book
Also by Pir Zia
Lineage
Persia and the frame of the book
Sufi teaching
History, empire, and emanation
Isis and the birth of music
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| Arborescence: Robert Moor | 13 Aug 2026 | 00:57:51 | |
Robert Moor is a journalist and essayist whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, Harper's, The Atlantic, Emergence, and The New York Times. His first book, On Trails, won the National Outdoor Book Award and the William Saroyan International Prize. He lives in Halfmoon Bay, British Columbia. His new book is 'In Trees'. Topics
Robert Moor
Books mentioned
People mentioned
Places and peoples
From SAND
Contact SAND
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| Superfluity of AI: Lyla June, Kathy Wan Povi Sanchez & Ashley Nicole Leitka | 06 Aug 2026 | 01:15:44 | |
The third conversation in "The Great AI Unraveling", recorded live with our community on July 10, 2026. Throughout time, humanity has experimented with playing God, and each time we have been humbled by forces larger than ourselves. Many Indigenous Nations consciously chose not to pursue certain technologies, recognizing that not every innovation serves life, and that wisdom lies in understanding the boundaries of nature and those of our human condition. As artificial intelligence promises ever greater efficiency, productivity, and control, we are invited to ask a deeper question: Which problem are we really trying to solve? Beneath the relentless pursuit of more—more knowledge, more power, more convenience—lies a profound inquiry into sufficiency, relationship, and meaning. Guests Dr. Lyla June Johnston (aka Lyla June) is an Indigenous musician, scholar, and community organizer of Diné (Navajo), Tsétsêhéstâhese (Cheyenne) and European lineages. She blends her study of Human Ecology at Stanford, graduate work in Indigenous Pedagogy, and the traditional worldview she grew up with to inform her music, perspectives and solutions. Her doctoral research focused on the ways in which pre-colonial Indigenous Nations shaped large regions of Turtle Island (aka the Americas) to produce abundant food systems for humans and non-humans. Ashley Nicole Leitka comes from the Absentee Shawnee Tribe of Oklahoma and the Oglala and Sicangu Lakota nations. She lives on Absentee Shawnee land in so-called Oklahoma and is the Director of the Department of Sovereignty and Self-Determination at Honor the Earth. Kathy Wan Povi Sanchez is a native spirit-rooted social activist, community educator, traditional blackware potter, and fluent Tewa language speaker from the Tewa Pueblo of San Ildefonso in New Mexico. For more than two decades, she has been a guiding force within Tewa Women United, advancing environmental justice, cultural revitalization, healing, and social transformation. A respected elder, teacher, and mentor, Kathy developed the acclaimed Two World Harmony Butterfly Model and Trauma Rocks, innovative frameworks that support cross-cultural understanding and intergenerational healing. Her lifelong work bridges Indigenous wisdom, environmental stewardship, community empowerment, and the protection of cultural and spiritual traditions. Through local, national, and international advocacy, she continues to inspire pathways of healing, resilience, and right relationship with the Earth and one another. Topics
Resources & Links
The Great AI Unraveling series
Contact SAND
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| Healing the Soul Wound: Eduardo Duran | 30 Jul 2026 | 01:04:10 | |
Recorded live at our May 2026 online gathering celebrating Little Singer, the Diné film in The Eternal Song series, this conversation with psychologist Eduardo Duran (Apache/Tewa/Lakota) begins with the prophecy of Crazy Horse and moves through the teachings of the elder who trained him, the soul wound and the origins of the term historical trauma, why Indigenous languages of verbs change how we understand diagnosis, and the Diné teaching of K'é: the universe wired in complete relationship. Trauma, he reminds us, is a movement and not an identity, and the medicine is in the song itself. Eduardo joins the teaching panel of our upcoming live course, Liberation Psychology: Roots, Memory & Practice. Eduardo Duran (Apache/Tewa/Lakota) is a psychologist and Vietnam veteran who has spent most of his career working in Indigenous communities, informed by Buddhist practice, Native teachings, and heart knowing. His work introduced the concepts of the soul wound and historical trauma into clinical practice. He is the author of Buddha in Redface, Healing the Soul Wound, and Native American Postcolonial Psychology. Topics
Resources & Links Eduardo Duran
SAND & The Eternal Song
Referenced in the conversation Contact SAND
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| Grow, Become, Love, Alone: Nicole Wordlaw | 23 Jul 2026 | 00:50:26 | |
Clinical psychologist and longtime Buddhist meditator Dr. Nicole Wordlaw joins us to talk about her new memoir, Waking Up Alone: Navigating the Narrow Passage Through Master-Slave Narratives. Nicole came to practice to end suffering, and found instead that enlightenment as an arrival, all bliss, all peace, was one more construction of the conditioned mind. The conversation moves through the single pattern she came to see beneath white supremacy, patriarchy, and the harm spiritual teachers do to their students; writing as prayer; pain as a door; and the intergenerational line of women whose voices run through the book. A tender and unflinching conversation about telling the whole story, uprooting the internal oppressor, and the quiet, still voice that always sounds like Love. Dr. Nicole Wordlaw is a clinical psychologist and longtime practitioner of Buddhist meditation whose work bridges psychology, spirituality, and identity. The daughter of a white mother and a Black father, Dr. Wordlaw brings a deeply personal understanding of belonging and self-discovery to her writing and teaching. A Stanford University graduate with honors and distinction, she went on to earn her Ph.D. in clinical psychology from UC Berkeley. In her forthcoming book Waking Up Alone, she vulnerably shares her story of trauma and awakening, and offers gentle guidance for her readers to tune into the quiet voice of truth within. Topics
Resources & Links Dr. Nicole Wordlaw
Referenced in the conversation
Contact SAND
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| Songs of Sila: Avianja Rakel Sanimuinaq, Ikimaliq Pikilak & Nuka Alice | 16 Jul 2026 | 01:06:25 | |
Three Kalaallit Inuit women sit with Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo, who met them while filming on their traditional land in Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland). Ikimaliq Pikilak carries the revival of Inuit tattooing, Nuka Alice carries drum dance, and Avianja Rakel Sanimuinaq carries her family's lineage of healing. Together they speak about what colonization severed, what gratitude makes survivable in the Arctic, and Sila, the word that holds weather, breath, and the consciousness connecting all living things. Recorded in June 2025 during the launch week of The Eternal Song, this conversation arrives now to celebrate Sila, the new film from Science and Nonduality featuring all three women, streaming at theeternalsong.org/sila. Guests Ikimaliq Pikilak is a Kalaallit tattoo practitioner. Trained in the Western tattoo industry in Denmark, she returned to Greenland and, through the traditionally tattooed mummies of Qilakitsoq, began an eleven-year journey of reclaiming Inuit women's markings: their meanings, their protocols, and their place in healing. Nuka Alice Lund is a drum dancer and teacher from the west coast of Kalaallit Nunaat. Taught by Paulina, who gathered songs from the elders of East Greenland, she works to normalize the use of Inuit drum dance and its songs, teaching adults and carrying the stories, intentions, and patience the practice asks for. Avianja Rakel Sanimuinaq is a healer working within her family's ancestral lineage. Her practice spans soul retrieval, putting souls to rest, and the older responsibility of rebalancing relations between people, land, and the spirit world. Of mixed Inuk and Danish parentage, she speaks in the conversation about finding her roots through her ancestors and helping others use her roots to find their own. Timestamps
Resources & Links
Contact SAND
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| Reigniting Indigenous Science: Maceo Carrillo Martinet | 09 Jul 2026 | 00:50:10 | |
Restoration ecologist and author Dr. Maceo Carrillo Martinet joins us to talk about his new book Healing the Land Teaches Us Who We Are: How Indigenous Cultural Resistance Can Restore the Earth, Recover Community, and Create Sustainable Futures. Grounded in over two decades of community-based restoration work across New Mexico, Maceo makes the case that the climate solutions we're searching for already exist and are already being practiced by communities around the world. The book is structured around the four elements — water, earth, fire, and air — treating each not as a category but as a relative with something to say. We move through the memory of ancient Pueblo dry-land farming still visible on La Bajada Mesa, the racism embedded in the history of American fire suppression, and the idea that culture and science were never actually separate to begin with. A conversation about returning to first principles, in a time when the polycrisis makes that return feel urgent. Guest Dr. Maceo Carrillo Martinet is an award-winning restoration ecologist who has spent over 20 years co-creating community-based restoration and education projects across New Mexico and beyond. Since 2008, he has worked with the Partners for Fish and Wildlife Program, assisting private landowners, tribes, cities, and counties. He holds a PhD in biology from the University of New Mexico with a focus on ecology, freshwater sciences, and environmental education. He teaches a hands-on course at UNM on watershed and community restoration. Topics
Resources & Links Dr. Maceo Carrillo Martinet
Referenced in the conversation
Contact SAND
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| What Occupation Does to the Soul: Samah Jabr, Gabor Maté, Jennifer Mullan, Facilitated by Jess Ghannam | 02 Jul 2026 | 01:00:42 | |
Global Reverberations of Palestinian Historical Trauma: A SAND Community Gathering with Dr. Samah Jabr, Dr. Gabor Maté & Dr. Jennifer Mullan, facilitated by Dr. Jess Ghannam Join us for a conversation marking the book launch of Radiance and Pain in Resilience, a powerful collection of essays by Palestinian psychiatrist, psychotherapist, and internationally respected mental health advocate Dr. Samah Jabr. We are gathering in the midst of genocide. The massive, deliberate traumatization of an entire people, cheered, funded, and shielded from accountability by Western governments, is unfolding in real time. As Israel’s assault on Gaza continues to annihilate bodies, families, and entire lineages, this conversation refuses to look away. It asks what it is to tend to the psyche under conditions of systematic destruction. Drawing on decades of clinical practice, political analysis, and lived experience under occupation, Dr. Jabr examines the psychological consequences of colonization, displacement, and historical trauma on the Palestinian people. Through personal reflections, case studies, and cultural critique, she challenges dominant Western paradigms of mental health and offers a decolonial, psycho-spiritual framework rooted in dignity, collective care, resistance, and truth. Proceeds from this conversation go directly to Project Hope Palestine, supporting 500 orphaned children living at Al-Baraka orphan camp in Gaza. Guests Dr. Samah Jabr is a psychiatrist practicing in Palestine, serving communities in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. She was formerly Head of the Mental Health Unit within the Palestinian Ministry of Health and is an Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at George Washington University. She is the author of several books including Behind the Frontlines, Sumud, Sumud in Times of Genocide, and most recently Radiance in Pain and Resilience: The Global Reverberations of Palestinian Historical Trauma. Dr. Gabor Maté is a physician, trauma expert, and bestselling author of The Myth of Normal, In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, and When the Body Says No. Dr. Jennifer Mullan is a clinical psychologist and the author of the national bestseller Decolonizing Therapy: Oppression, Historical Trauma, and Politicizing Your Practice. She is the founder of Decolonizing Therapy®. Dr. Jess Ghannam (facilitator) is Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Global Health Sciences at UCSF. Timestamps
Resources & Links Dr. Samah Jabr
Dr. Gabor Maté Dr. Jennifer Mullan
Support
Thinkers referenced in the conversation
Contact SAND
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| Animism, Activism & Ancestry: Daniel Foor | 25 Jun 2026 | 00:52:46 | |
Daniel Foor returns to Sounds of SAND for a wide-ranging conversation that moves from his own winding spiritual path to the urgent question of why so many spiritual teachers stay silent in the face of injustice. A doctor of psychology, initiated priest in the Yoruba Ifá tradition, and practicing Muslim, Daniel makes the case that animism is the antidote to human supremacy, that Islam is fundamentally a relational and earth-honoring tradition, and that genuine spirituality cannot retreat from the political realities of our time. Along the way, he speaks candidly about ancestral healing, decolonization, the genocide in Gaza, and what it means to become "regular-sized" in a culture built on separation. Topics
Resources & Links
SAND Films
Referenced
Contact SAND
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| Tending the Whole: Nkem Ndefo & Staci K. Haines, Facilitated by Rae Abileah | 18 Jun 2026 | 00:55:15 | |
There is a “false wall” often placed between contemplative life and political action—a story implying that inner peace and outer justice are separate vocations. This imaginary divide exhausts us. In a world facing converging crises, how do those dedicated to healing move beyond the limits of individualized work to support systemic transformation? Join somatics experts and social change practitioners Nkem Ndefo and Staci K. Haines for a conversation introducing The Outer Work Project; an initiative dedicated to bridging trauma healing spaces with sustained social and climate justice movements. This episode explores how to move from personal healing as solely an inward practice into a rooted force for collective change. Guests Nkem Ndefo is an alchemist, disabled Black midwife, facilitator, coach, and strategist. She is the founder of Lumos Transforms and creator of The Resilience Toolkit, a model for embodied healing and liberatory change rooted in neuroscience and social justice. Her work spans the US, UK, and Palestine. Staci K. Haines has been working at the intersections of personal and social transformation for over 30 years through politicized somatics, trauma healing, embodied leadership, and transformative justice. She is the co-founder of Generative Somatics and co-leads The Outer Work Project. She is the author of The Politics of Trauma: Somatics, Healing and Social Justice. Rae Abileah (facilitator) is a social change strategist, Jewish faith leader, and member of the SAND team. Her work spans Beautiful Trouble, The Nature Conservancy Agility Lab, and ALAS, weaving cultural connection, the arts, and frontline community leadership as pathways to healing and climate justice. Timestamps
Resources & Links Nkem Ndefo
Staci K. Haines
Rae Abileah Organizations & concepts referenced
SAND Events, Courses and Films
Contact SAND
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| Sacred Remembering in Times of War: Dr. Jaiya John (Mshkiki Odeh Inini, Medicine Heart Man) | 11 Jun 2026 | 01:25:35 | |
Recorded live at a SAND Community Gathering (April 2026) Hard times are here, we hunger for voices that can see beyond the fear, beyond the noise, beyond the technologies consuming our attention. We need poets and visionaries. People who remember freedom. Dr. Jaiya John (Mshkiki Odeh Inini, Medicine Heart Man), medicine poet, freedom worker, is one of those voices. He has spent his life gathering words that heal. In this conversation, we enter the beauty, the grief, and the medicine together. We sit with the devastation tearing our world, the sorrows cracking us open, the ancestors still holding us—and the radical insistence that collective freedom is not something we chase. It is something already alive in and between us, waiting to be birthed. Dr. Jaiya John (Mshkiki Odeh Inini, Medicine Heart Man) was orphan-born on ancient Indigenous Anasazi and Pueblo lands in the high desert of New Mexico. He is an ancestral Baba, freedom worker, medicine poet, and the founder of Soul Water Rising—a global mission to eradicate oppression through re-humanization, book donations, and grants to displaced youth. He is the author of numerous books including Freedom: Medicine Words for your Brave Revolution and Fragrance After Rain, and the creator of the podcast I Will Read for You. A former professor of social psychology at Howard University, he holds a doctorate from UC Santa Cruz and has spoken to over a million people worldwide. His Indigenous soul dreams of frybread, sweetgrass, bamboo in the breeze, and turtle lakes whose poetry is peace.
Watch the full video version of this conversation.
Topics
Dr. Jaiya John — Guest
Dr. Jennifer Mullan — Referenced
The Gaza Monologues — Referenced
Nikki Giovanni — Referenced
Ancestors Referenced
Hopi Nation / Turtle Island
Connect with more talks and films from the SAND film Series The Eternal Song
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| Awakening in Times of Collapse: Stephan Bodian | 04 Jun 2026 | 00:40:06 | |
Stephan offers webinars, retreats, videos, books, and spiritual counseling that make profound spiritual teachings and practices accessible to a global audience. He studied and practiced for many years with great masters in the nondual wisdom traditions of Zen, Dzogchen-Mahamudra, and Advaita Vedanta, and in 2001 he received Dharma transmission (authorization to teach) from Adyashanti. In this conversation, recorded to mark the release of his new book Infinite Awakening: A Guide to Nondual Wisdom and the Pathless Path (Shambhala, May 2026), Stephan and Michael explore awakening not as a destination but as an ongoing, infinite process. They move through trauma and trust, the limits of mindfulness, the role of intimate relationship as spiritual path, and how nondual realization speaks — or fails to speak — to the metacrisis we're all living through. The episode closes with a guided "rest and allow" meditation from Stephan. Topics
Resources & Links Stephan Bodian
Referenced teachers and books
Psychological Modalities
SAND Contact SAND | |||
| Mysticism of Sound & Music: Michael Harrison (Encore) | 21 May 2026 | 00:59:20 | |
We are resharing this episode in memory of Michael Harrison, who passed away on April 17, 2026. He was 67.
Hazrat Inayat Khan ( July 1882 – 5 February 1927) was an Indian professor of musicology, singer, exponent of the saraswati vina, poet, philosopher, and pioneer of the transmission of Sufism to the West. At the urging of his students, and on the basis of his ancestral Sufi tradition and four-fold training and authorization at the hands of Sayyid Abu Hashim Madani (d. 1907) of Hyderabad, he established an order of Sufism (the Sufi Order) in London in 1914. By the time of his death in 1927, centers had been established throughout Europe and North America, and multiple volumes of his teachings had been published. Michael Harrison (October 24, 1958 - April 17, 2026) forged a new approach to composition through just intonation (the system of tuning based on pure harmonic proportions). His works blend classical music traditions of Europe and North India. He is a Guggenheim Fellowship and NYFA Artist Fellowship recipient. Michael created dedicated tuning systems for many of his works. He pioneered a structural approach to composition in which the proportions of harmonic relationships organically determine other musical elements such as pitch, duration, and dynamics. He also invented the “harmonic piano,” a grand piano that plays 24 notes per octave, documented in the Grove Dictionary of Musical Instruments. Harrison seeks expressions of universality via the physics of sound – music that brings one into a state of concentrated listening as a meditative and even mind-altering experience. At the time of his death he was working on “The Raga Cycle”, a series of albums charting the hours of the day through Hindustani raga. The first installment, Evening Light, was released in March 2026 on Cantaloupe Records. More albums in the series were recorded before he became too ill to continue. They will be released in the years ahead. Donations in his memory can be made to the Michael Harrison Foundation for Just Music at JustMusic.org. Topics
Links Michael Harrison — His Own Work
Episode Music
Hazrat Inayat Khan
Teachers & Lineage
Other Composers & Artists Referenced
Programs & Institutions
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| The Great AI Unraveling, Part 2: Tiokasin Ghosthorse & Pooja Prema | 14 May 2026 | 01:23:22 | |
This is the second gathering in SAND's ongoing series on AI and the human spirit — and it takes a deliberately different rhythm. Rather than asking "is AI safe?" or "will it take our jobs?", Tiokasin Ghosthorse and Pooja Prema invite us to slow down and ask the deeper questions: What cosmology is AI extending? What is intelligence, really? And what happens when the earth-based, organic, living intelligence of Indigenous and ancestral ways of knowing gets replaced by a synthetic one? A spacious, felt-sense conversation that asks us to remember what a living mind actually is. Timestamps
Guests Tiokasin Ghosthorse is a member of the Cheyenne River Lakota Nation and lifelong Indigenous activist. He is the founder and host of First Voices Radio, which broadcast for 33 years before its final episode in July 2025. He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2016, is a National Native American Hall of Fame nominee, and a master musician who performs worldwide. He describes himself simply as "a perfectly flawed human being." He is also featured in SAND's film The Eternal Song. Pooja Prema is a first-generation Indian American writer, multidisciplinary artist, and ritualist from Kerala, South India. Her work weaves ecofeminism, decolonial somatic practice, and animistic cosmologies. She is the founder of The Rites of Passage Project and The Ritual Theatre. Her work has been featured at the Kennedy Center, Ebony Magazine, and NPR. Resources & Links Tiokasin Ghosthorse Pooja Prema Film referenced
Concepts discussed
SAND series context Contact SAND Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| The Indigenous Paradigm: Pat McCabe & Lynn Murphy | 07 May 2026 | 01:01:47 | |
Originally recorded at Science and Nonduality, 2021 Pat McCabe, also known as Woman Stands Shining, is a Diné elder, ceremonial prayer leader, and international speaker adopted into the Lakota spiritual way of life. In this conversation hosted by Lynn Murphy, Pat offers a profound invitation to examine the foundational assumptions of the modern world paradigm and consider what it might mean to live from a genuinely different understanding of what it is to be human. Drawing on teachings from her clan grandfather, her experience of intergenerational trauma and survival, and her deep inquiry into masculine and feminine principles, Pat maps the territory between the glittering world we are leaving and the green world we are entering. The conversation opens in ceremony and closes with a practice: a morning sunrise offering that anyone can begin today. Lynn Murphy is a strategic advisor for foundations and NGOs working in the geopolitical South. She was a senior fellow and program officer at the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation where she focused on international education and global development. She resigned as a ”conscientious objector” to neocolonial philanthropy. She holds an MA and PhD in international comparative education from Stanford University. She is also a certified Laban/Bartenieff movement analyst. This episode is released in celebration of SAND’s new film featuring Pat McCabe, Little Singer, premiering online May 26-28, 2026, as part of the Eternal Song series. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Introduction 00:01:45 — Lynn Murphy introduces Pat McCabe: Diné nation, Lakota spiritual way, Defend the Sacred alliance 00:05:00 — Pat introduces herself through her clans — clan names as places on the earth, worlds more than this one 00:07:00 — Traveling through worlds: the flood, men and women, and the movement from the glittering world to the green world 00:15:00 — The two paradigms: indigenous versus modern world — "I am a human being, relative to all my relations" 00:34:00 — Trailer for Little Singer — premiering online May 26-28, 2026 — theeternalsong.org/littlesinger 00:35:00 — Masculine and feminine principles: power over versus power with, the sacred hoop, and right relations 00:52:00 — A practice for beginning: the morning sunrise offering and the teaching on consent, sovereignty, and honorable relationship with all beings Resources and Links Pat McCabe — Woman Stands Shining Website: patmccabe.net Little Singer — Eternal Song Series Online premiere: May 26-28, 2026 Three-day event with Diné voices Mentioned in the episode Robin Wall Kimmerer — Braiding Sweetgrass (plant sovereignty, honorable harvest) Lakota spiritual traditions — Seven Generations teaching Diné (Navajo) Nation — Long Walk history, Bosque Redondo concentration camp, 1860s Residential boarding school history — US government and church collaboration Masculine and feminine principles in economics and right relations — ongoing inquiry in Pat's work Episode artwork “Woman Stands Shining” by Namita Contact SAND Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| What Empire Cannot Erase: Fatemeh Keshavarz-Karamustafa, Omid Safi & Mays Imad | 30 Apr 2026 | 01:17:24 | |
Persian Poetry, Radical Love, and the Soul of Iran – Omid Safi
We are watching, once again, what empire does: not only to bodies, but to the long memory of a people; to the libraries and sacred sites; to art, language, and the ruins that hold the oldest threads of human spiritual inquiry. We are thinking of the civilization that gave us Rumi, Hafez, Omar Khayyam, Forough Farrokhzad — mystics and rebels and lovers of paradox who understood something about the human soul that we are still, centuries later, trying to catch up to. This gathering invited us to come together: to read poetry aloud, to hear from Iranian voices, to sit with grief and beauty together rather than alone. We work with political and moral vocabulary shaped by Iranian thinkers such as Ali Shariati, who wrote against domination, spiritual emptiness, and the violence of imposed power. We make space for what doesn’t fit into headlines or talking points—the complexity of empire, the difference between a government and its people, the authoritarian forces at work not only abroad but here at home. We also gather with the political inheritance of those who taught generations to resist domination and spiritual emptiness, including Ali Shariati. Guests Omid Safi is a scholar of the Islamic mystical tradition and professor of Islamic Studies at Duke University. He is the author of Memories of Muhammad and Radical Love: Teachings from the Islamic Mystical Tradition, and teaches online courses on Muslim mysticism. He leads contemplative journeys to Turkey, Morocco, and Mecca/Medina through Illuminated Courses. Fatemeh Keshavarz is the Roshan Institute Chair in Persian Language and Literature and Director of the Roshan Institute Center for Persian Studies at the University of Maryland. A poet in Persian and English, she is the author of Reading Mystical Lyric, Recite in the Name of the Red Rose, Jasmine and Stars: Reading More Than Lolita in Tehran, and Lyrics of Life: Sa'di on Love, Cosmopolitanism and Care of the Self. She has spoken at the UN General Assembly and received the Peabody Award for her NPR program on Rumi. Mays Imad, PhD (facilitator) is a neuroscientist, educator, and associate professor at Connecticut College whose work bridges neuroscience, philosophy, and education. An Iraqi immigrant who lived through wars and displacement, she brings both personal and scholarly depth to the themes of trauma, remembrance, and repair through the embodied nervous system. Timestamps
Resources & Links Omid Safi
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Next SAND Community Gathering Contact SAND Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| The Great AI Unraveling: Tristan Harris | 23 Apr 2026 | 01:29:37 | |
Recorded live at SAND Community Gathering (April 2026). Watch the full conversion on the SAND Website. SAND has launched a special series on Artificial Intelligence. To premiere this series, we spoke with tech ethicist Tristan Harris—co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology. In this conversation, we explored his warnings about the impending age of AI. According to Harris, the current trajectory isn’t just menacing the economy, but fundamentally rewiring human relationships, altering parenting and mental health, potentially accelerating climate collapse, and even threatening the very fabric of society. We inquired into ways to remain human in an era where machines can simulate empathy, displace our labor, and potentially outmaneuver us.
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| Mongolian Dharma Poetry: Simon Wickhamsmith | 16 Apr 2026 | 00:56:16 | |
Simon Wickhamsmith is a Buddhist monk turned scholar, computer musician, and one of the only translators of Mongolian literature into English. He teaches in the Writing Program at Rutgers University and has been traveling back and forth to Mongolia since 2006. In this conversation he traces his spiritual path from Catholicism through Tibetan Buddhism and back to medieval Christian mysticism, introduces the Mongolian poet Mend-Ooyo, and takes us deep into the life and poetry of the 19th century Buddhist polymath Danzanravjaa — a figure Simon considers his primary teacher — including a live reading of the poem Twos, a stunning meditation on nonduality from the Mongolian steppe. Topics
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Simon Wickhamsmith
Mend-Ooyo Gombojav
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Connect with more talks and films from the SAND film Series The Eternal Song
Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member
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| Ancient Minoan Wisdom: Chiara Baldini | 02 Apr 2026 | 00:53:15 | |
Researcher, author, and PhD candidate Chiara Baldini has spent two decades tracing the roots of ecstatic culture in Europe — from the rituals of Dionysus all the way back to Bronze Age Crete and the ancient Minoans, a civilization that thrived for over a thousand years before classical Greece. In this conversation, Chiara makes a compelling case that the Minoans may have been the only advanced civilization of their era not built on domination — their palaces functioning as community spaces rather than elite residencies, their frescoes showing priestesses, dolphins, and bull-jumping athletes rather than kings and conquest. She explores what their art, architecture, and animist relationship to nature might offer us now — not as a culture to imitate, but as proof that patriarchy is not inevitable, and that a radically different set of values has thrived before. Chiara Baldini is a scholar, author, speaker and freelance curator from Florence (Italy). She investigates the evolution of the ecstatic cult in the West, particularly in Minoan Crete, ancient Greece, and Rome, contributing to anthologies, psychedelic conferences, and festivals. She was a member of the Boom Festival team since 2010 and the curator of Boom’s cultural area Liminal Village from 2014 to 2023. She has co-curated the anthology “Psychedelic Mysteries of the Feminine.” She is currently a PhD candidate at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS). She lives in Portugal and she expresses her deep love for music by playing as DJ Clandestina. Topics
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Connect with more talks and films from the SAND film Series The Eternal Song | |||
| The Architecture of Silence in Spiritual Culture: Gabor Maté, Bayo Akomolafe, Pat McCabe, Tara Brach, V & Matthew Remski | 26 Mar 2026 | 01:43:05 | |
Recorded live at a SAND Community Gathering (March 2026). Something is cracking open in the spiritual and wellness world; and it has been for a while. Have wisdom traditions containing genuine gifts been composted into a product that only serves the very forces those traditions were born to resist? It is no news that some powerful spiritual leaders with devoted followers have, for a long time, abused that power for dominance and, in many cases, for sexual exploitation. The Epstein files are not an interruption to the pattern; they are the pattern, made suddenly impossible to scroll past. We want to reflect on the conditions—not just the men, not just the crimes, but the architecture of silence that held it all in place. What kind of spiritual culture produces that silence? What kind of spiritual culture makes it possible to look at harm and call it a lesson in perception? What has gone awry with our approach to spirituality when the latter can be used as a cover for abuse? How come much of the therapeutic and spiritual communities remain silent in the face of crimes witnessed by the entire world? To explore these and related issues, this discussion brought together mytho-poetic spiritual teacher Bayo Akomolafe Ph.D., writer & podcaster Matthew Remsiki, author & playwright V, spiritual teacher & psychologist Tara Brach and author & physician Gabor Maté in a wide-ranging discussion that will also invite audience participation. The intention is to leave participants encouraged to find the spiritual inner strength needed to pursue truth without losing discrimination in the process, without giving away their power; to discuss compassionately, without judgment but with clarity, what the Epstein revelations can tell us about who we are, about our culture, and about the nature of how we construct reality; to move beyond a so-called equanimity and “non-attachment” that is indistinguishable from numbness and passivity in the face of harm, in the face of evil. Topics:
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| Transforming Colonization, Extractivism & Socio-Ecological Injustice: Casey Camp-Horinek, Osprey Orielle Lake, Abby Reyes & Rae Abileah | 21 Mar 2026 | 01:03:35 | |
Recorded live at SAND's Wisdom of the Ancestors event for the launch of the film series The Eternal Song, four powerful voices converge to address colonization, extractivism, and ecological injustice — and what it takes to move toward healing. Moderated by Rae Abileah, social change strategist, Jewish faith leader, and co-creator of the global Climate Ribbon art ritual. Abby Reyes, author of Truth Demands and Director of Community Resilience at UC Irvine, shares her harrowing personal story of the 1999 murders of her partner and colleagues near U'wa territory in Colombia, and a landmark recent Inter-American Court victory for Indigenous collective rights. Osprey Orielle Lake, founder of WECAN International and author of The Story Is in Our Bones, brings a worldview-shifting lens to the climate crisis as a justice and relational emergency. And Casey Camp-Horinek, elder, actress, and Hereditary Drumkeeper of the Ponca Nation, grounds the conversation in Indigenous sovereignty and the Rights of Nature. Together they call for community-rooted action, mutual aid, and what they name "post-traumatic growth." Topics:
Resources Rae Abileah Abby Reyes Osprey Orielle Lake Casey Camp-Horinek Connect with more talks from The Wisdom of the Ancestors in the SAND film Series The Eternal Song
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| Reading As Resistance: Patty Krawec | 12 Mar 2026 | 00:53:38 | |
Patty Krawec is Ojibwe Anishinaabe, a retired social worker, and author of Becoming Kin and her new book Bad Indians Book Club. In this conversation she explores kinship beyond blood, land as ancestor, and why reading together — slowly, in community — might be one of the most quietly radical things we can do right now. Topics
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| Block by Block, Heart by Heart: Dr. Lyla June, Kaira Jewel Lingo, Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg & Rae Abileah | 05 Mar 2026 | 01:17:20 | |
Recorded from a live SAND Gathering (February 2026). From Los Angeles to Minneapolis, communities are turning toward one another in a time of uncertainty, remembering that care begins close to home. Beyond public action, quieter networks of support are taking root: block-by-block relationships grounded in land, lineage, and love. This gathering explores how spiritual practice, trauma-aware care, and neighborhood organizing are being woven together as living traditions. We ask what it looks like to shift our energy from reactive mobilization toward steady, proactive organizing that can sustain us for the long haul. Drawing from Indigenous memory, Black freedom traditions, diasporic Jewish practices of care, and contemporary grassroots work, we reflect on how mutual care—feeding one another, tending grief, protecting children, honoring the dead—can be reclaimed as daily sacred practice. This is a conversation about blending spiritual practice and movement practice; about thinking smaller, closer, and more relational; and about learning from quiet, resilient forms of organizing that move people from isolation into coordinated courage. This conversation invites attunement: How do we stay grounded in grief without collapsing? How do we strengthen relationships across differences? How do small, steady acts of care help communities move from fear toward shared courage? This is an invitation to listen to the wisdom already alive in our histories, our bodies, and our neighborhoods. Topics
Decolonial Mental Health Practice: Clinical and Ethical Insights from Palestine with Dr. Samah Jabr (March 1, 8, 15 & 22, 2026 • 9:00 – 11:00am PST online with SAND) Please consider donating to Rabbi Jessica’s GoFundMe campaign in support of students at Roosevelt High School in Minneapolis. The students are using creative arts to process the trauma of recent encounters involving ICE and U.S. Border Patrol. In collaboration with local artists, they are developing an art installation intended to uplift and inspire both the school community and their neighbors, while continuing to advocate for justice and safety for all. This project offers a meaningful way to strengthen community bonds and foster collective healing. Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| Medicine in Our Wounds: Liza Rankow | 26 Feb 2026 | 01:06:46 | |
Dr. Liza J. Rankow, author of Soul Medicine for a Fractured World, explores healing justice in a time of social and ecological upheaval. She names oppositional dualism and domination as the root fracture of our world and invites a shift toward lived non-duality as the ground of lasting transformation. The conversation touches the “crucible of the in-between,” apocalypse as death and renewal, grief as medicine, and the movement from commodified self-care to soul care rooted in spirit, community, and nature. The conversation emphasized deep listening, silence, and relationship with the living world. Today’s episode closes with a simple guided breath practice for self, loved ones, and the world. Topics
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Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| "If I Must Die": Samah Jabr & Mays Imad | 19 Feb 2026 | 01:26:58 | |
Recorded live at a SAND Community Gathering (Feb 2026) Dr. Samah Jabr, a Palestinian psychiatrist and author of Radiance in Pain and Resilience, joins Dr. Mays Imad (with questions from the audience chat) for a conversation about what it means to stay human when the structures meant to protect people are the ones doing the harm. Drawing on decades of clinical work inside the occupation, Dr. Jabr moves past the “sanitized” versions of trauma to speak directly to the heart of colonial harm in Palestine. Central to this dialogue is an exploration of the deep ontological differences between Western psychiatric models and Palestinian lived experience. While Western frameworks often pathologize the individual through the lens of PTSD, Dr. Jabr introduces the concept of iptila—viewing tribulations through a framework of agency, faith, and collective endurance. She challenges the frequent romanticization of sumud (steadfastness), reframing it not as a poetic trope, but as a grueling relational practice and an ethical refusal to disappear when everything conspires toward Palestinian erasure. In a reality where the harm never ends, memory becomes a battlefield, grief a form of testimony, bearing witness an active refusal to normalize the unacceptable, and storytelling a vital survival infrastructure against the assassination of memory. Topics
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Where Olive Trees Weep (Film by SAND on Palestine (2024) with more Resources and a course on Palestine) | |||
| Consciousness: Tiokasin Ghosthorse | 12 Feb 2026 | 01:06:50 | |
What if language was not a tool for naming things, but a vibration of relationship? What if intelligence wasn’t a human asset, but an ecological rhythm? What if consciousness is not what happens in our heads—but what happens between us, through us, with the land, with water, with wind?
Come gather for a conversation with Tiokasin Ghosthorse, Cheyenne River Lakota elder, host of First Voices Radio, master musician, and steward of relational ways of knowing. Rooted in the vibrational teachings of the old Lakota language, a language shaped by Earth and used to speak with, not about, Tiokasin invites us to unlearn the dominance of human-centered thought and listen again to Earth as consciousness.
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Connect with more with Tiokasin and dozens of other speakers and elders in the SAND film Series The Eternal Song
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| Listening in Reverie: Ellen Emmet | 05 Feb 2026 | 00:41:23 | |
In this conversation, Ellen Emmet reflects on her path into Jungian analysis and how the teachings of Carl Jung continue to shape her inner life, clinical work, and spiritual inquiry. Together, we explore what it means to hold depth psychology and nondual realization in the same field—without collapsing one into the other. The dialogue moves through questions of decolonizing therapy, the subtle dynamics of spiritual bypass, and the kind of deep listening required when working with the unconscious—both personal and collective. Ellen speaks to the body as a threshold into the psyche’s wilderness, and to the necessity of staying in relationship with what is unresolved, uncomfortable, and unfinished. Threaded throughout is a concern for the wider world: how collective trauma, ancestral memory, and the current socio-political moment ask to be included in spiritual and therapeutic work—not bypassed. This is a conversation about remembrance, embodiment, and the slow work of integration in times of upheaval. Ellen offers meetings and retreats through The Awakening Body, an experiential exploration rooted in nondual inquiry, Authentic Movement, and direct listening to lived experience. She also maintains a private psychotherapy practice and facilitates Authentic Movement groups. Topics
Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| Soul Work for Times of Uncertainty: Francis Weller | 29 Jan 2026 | 01:04:41 | |
From a SAND Community Gathering (December 2025), Francis Weller joins SAND co-founders Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo for a wide-ranging conversation on grief, initiation, and the sacred thresholds of a changing world.
They speak of rough passages and necessary descents—of what must burn away, and what endures. With Francis’s steady guidance, sorrow, longing, beauty, and vulnerability are reclaimed not as weaknesses, but as profound sources of strength, orientation, and soul knowledge.
Rooted in the soulcraft teachings of his book In the Absence of the Ordinary, the dialogue unfolds in a spirit of reverence and remembrance. Together, they explore the unraveling of the familiar as an invitation into deeper belonging—grief as a living portal, and beauty as a practice of staying close to what is sacred, even in times of descent.
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| Indigenous Ways of Knowing: Dr. Leroy Little Bear | 22 Jan 2026 | 00:56:03 | |
Blackfoot scholar Dr. Leroy Little Bear shares foundational Indigenous ways of knowing—revealing a worldview built on energy, motion, and relationship rather than matter, time, and separation.In this conversation, Little Bear illuminates how Blackfoot philosophy understands reality through "interpretive templates"—cultural lenses shaped by language, land, and cosmology. Where Western thought centers singularity and fixed answers, Blackfoot ways embrace flux, transformation, and "all my relations."
Explore more in Indigenous Worldviews in the SAND film Series The Eternal Song | |||
| Healing with Songlines: Joe Williams & Dr. (Uncle) Paul Gordon | 15 Jan 2026 | 01:00:57 | |
This episode was recorded live at The Eternal Song Film Gathering in 2025. Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo welcome Dr. (Uncle) Paul Gordon and Joe Williams, featured in the upcoming SAND Film In the Circle of Life premiering January 20, 2026. In this conversation they discuss the profound importance of connection to the land, cultural heritage, and traditional practices in achieving wellness. The conversation reveals how Indigenous wisdom can address modern societal woes and highlights the importance of respecting and maintaining a deep relationship with the natural world. Topics
Resources Recorded live at The Eternal Song Seven Day Film Premiere summit with Indigenous voices Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| Dispatches Through the Rubble: Haidar Eid & Ashira Darwish | 08 Jan 2026 | 01:01:13 | |
From a recent SAND Community Gathering (December 2025). This urgent conversation, facilitated by Ashira Darwish and rooted in Haidar Eid’s new book Banging on the Walls of the Tank, moves through the fractured present of Gaza, bringing forth a chorus of resistance, mourning, refusal, and clarity.
This is a dispatch from within the rubble, the classroom, the lull between airstrikes. Together. Eid and Darwish hold the line inside the unbearable: the grief of ongoing genocide and the insistence on liberation; the impossibility of hope and the necessity of imagining otherwise.
Their conversation refuses erasure, insists on dignity, and carries the clarity of those living under siege with purpose and memory intact.
This conversation carries the vibration of Gaza’s resistance outward, inviting listeners not just to witness, but to respond. Topics
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Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| Threshold Voices: Sounds of SAND 2025 | 30 Dec 2025 | 02:10:57 | |
This final episode of 2025 reflects on a year of transitions and healing, focusing on themes of intergenerational trauma, collective grief, and social justice, especially in the context of the ongoing genocide in Gaza. Through diverse voices including Dr. Gabor Maté, Naomi Klein, Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, Ashira Darwish, Omid Safi, Kazu Haga, and others, the episode delves into personal and collective fields of healing. It emphasizes the importance of remembering, ritualizing healing, community action, indigenous knowledge, and a para-politics of grief and relationship. The episode also highlights the significance of interconnectedness, resilience, and the continuous effort towards justice and transformation. Topics and Speakers
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| Engaged Contemplation: Father Adam Bucko | 11 Dec 2025 | 00:50:14 | |
In this episode of The Sounds of SAND podcast, host Michael Reiley speaks with Father Adam Bucko about his journey and the integration of Christian contemplative spirituality with social justice activism. Father Adam shares his formative experiences growing up in Poland during the resistance against totalitarian government, his work with marginalized youth in the United States and India, and his philosophy of engaged contemplation. He discusses the importance of heartbreak as a spiritual guide, the responsibility of acknowledging historical injustices perpetrated by the Christian church, and the practice of staying grounded through monastic rhythms of life. The episode highlights the need for a balanced approach to spirituality that embraces both love and grief, and explores reconciliation with the world's suffering through active, mindful presence. Topics
Resources: Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| Therapy Is Not Neutral: Dr. Jennifer Mullan & Iya Affo | 04 Dec 2025 | 01:00:41 | |
A Decolonial Invitation to Remember, Relearn, and Resist
From a live SAND Community Gathering (November 2025) a live conversation with Dr. Jennifer Mullan & Iya Affo. Their discussion emphasizes the importance of ancestral wisdom, collective healing, and the decolonization of therapeutic practices. Dr. Mullan shares her personal journey of reconciling traditional healing methods with modern therapy and explores the impact of historical and intergenerational trauma. The conversation also highlights the significance of land, lineage, and community in the healing process, and addresses the ways in which therapy can be transformed to be more inclusive and effective for diverse populations. Dr. Mullan shares from her journey of calling therapists into a politicized practice—one rooted in responsibility, reverence, and collective liberation. The conversation challenges clinicians to confront their training, interrogate their privilege, and participate in the sacred labor of relearning. Topics
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| Trauma Healing: Gabor Maté, Judy Atkinson, Patricia June Vickers, Diana Kopua, Del Laverdure | 27 Nov 2025 | 01:25:06 | |
This episode, recorded live at The Eternal Song live gathering (June 2025), brings together a distinguished panel featuring Patricia June Vickers, Judy Atkinson, Dr. Diana Kopua, and Donald “Del” Lavedure, moderated by Dr. Gabor Maté. The discussion explores the integration of ancestral wisdom and modern therapeutic methods to address and heal trauma within Indigenous communities. The group share their personal and professional experiences, emphasizing the connection between land, ancestry, and healing. The conversation highlights the importance of storytelling, cultural practices, and the role of spirituality in fostering collective and individual healing, while addressing how individuals outside Indigenous cultures can support this crucial work. Topics:
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Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member
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| Radical Symbiosis: Cara Judea Alhadeff | 20 Nov 2025 | 01:01:42 | |
Dr. Cara Judea Alhadeff discusses her work and the profound ideas in her book Zazu Dreams: Between the Scarab and the Dung Beetle, A Cautionary Fable for the Anthropocene Era. She explores themes of dream consciousness, cultural and ecological extinction, radical symbiosis, and the concept of apocalyptic parenting as a strategy for social justice and ecological ethics, an antidote to petroleum parenting. The discussion digs into the interdisciplinary ties found in her stories, her collaborative projects, and the communal effort in creating sustainable futures. Dr. Alhadeff also shares her real-life experiences of living for almost a decade in a reclaimed school bus, 'The Love Bus', exemplifying the principles of radical mothering, reuse, collective creativity, and joy amidst systemic challenges. Dr. Cara Judea Alhadeff is a professor and author of dozens of books and articles on art, philosophy, sexuality, climate justice, life-passion activism, and "petroleum parenting," including the critically-acclaimed Zazu Dreams: Between the Scarab and the Dung Beetle, A Cautionary Fable for the Anthropocene Era, and Viscous Expectations: Justice, Vulnerability, The Ob-scene. Alhadeff’s forthcoming book, Unlearning What We Think We Know (Vernon Press), will be performed during the World Affairs Conference. Her photographs/ performance videos are in private and public collection,s including San Francisco MoMA, MoMA Salzburg, Austria, the Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender, and Reproduction, and include collaborations with international choreographers, composers, poets, sculptors, architects, and scientists. She has been interviewed by The New York Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Pacifica Radio, NPR, and the New Art Examiner. Alongside Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Vandana Shiva, Alhadeff received the Random Kindness Community Resilience Leadership Award, 2020. In 2022, Alhadeff was nominated for a MacArthur Fellowship. Her theoretical and visual work is the subject of documentaries for international public television/ radio. A former professor of Critical Pedagogy & Performance at UC Santa Cruz and Founder of Radical Art in Action, Alhadeff teaches, performs, and parents a creative-zero-waste life. She and her family live and perform in their eco-art installation, a repurposed school bus. www.carajudeaalhadeff.com Topics
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Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| Trauma in a Time of Collapse: Kazu Haga | 13 Nov 2025 | 00:51:17 | |
What does it mean to stay tender in times of unraveling? In this live SAND Community Gathering (November 2025), SAND co-founders, Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo spend the hour with activist and author Kazu Haga. This conversation invites us into a collective inquiry about healing, justice, and the radical courage of vulnerability. Drawing from his work on restorative justice and Kingian nonviolence, Haga explores how compassion can live alongside grief, anger, and collapse—not as escape or appeasement, but as a disciplined, relational practice of staying with the pain of the world. Topics: 00:00 Introduction and Welcoming Remarks 00:44 Introducing Kazu and His Work 04:08 Understanding Fierce Vulnerability 06:43 The Great Turning and Collective Healing 10:50 Non-Violence and Social Movements 17:13 Spiritual Practice and Activism 24:22 Anger, Rage, and Non-Violence 26:40 Personal Stories and Reflections 28:57 Sowing Seeds of Change 29:56 The Power of Vulnerability 31:33 Healing Through Non-Violence 38:55 The Concept of Negative Peace 47:48 Living in Community 49:45 Final Thoughts and Gratitude Resources: The Eternal Song (film series by SAND) Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| Tending the Threshold: Bayo Akomolafe | 06 Nov 2025 | 00:46:01 | |
Recorded live at The Eternal Song Seven Day Film Premiere Gathering. In this episode, hosts Maurizio and Zaya engage in deep conversation with Yoruba philosopher and post-humanist thinker Bayo Akomolafe. In this episode, Bayo shares a Yoruba creation myth involving the Orishas, highlighting the importance of flow and memory. He reflects on his journey as a psychologist in Nigeria and critiques the political dimensions of healing. The dialogue also touches on the limits of modernity, the significance of wounds in creating new worlds, and the interconnectedness of all living beings. Bayo’s insights invite listeners to reconsider traditional notions of clarity, identity, and safety, promoting a deeper, more fluid understanding of existence as it weaves into narratives of The Eternal Song. Watch this full conversation and 40+ more The Eternal Song film series and All-Access Pass with from our 7-day gathering with Elders and knowledge keepers Topics 00:00 Introduction and Greetings 00:46 Introducing Bayo Akomolafe 02:13 A Yoruba Creation Story 06:50 Reflections on Healing 12:49 Decolonization and Human Ecology 20:32 The Complexity of Solutions 22:25 Chaos and Order: The Eternal Dance 22:41 The Illusion of Solutions 22:50 Climate Chaos and Moralities 23:34 The Exhaustion of Traditional Moralities 24:10 Para Politics: A New Approach 26:30 The Role of the Trickster in History 28:45 The Power of Wounds and Cracks 31:31 The Fluidity of Identity 36:52 The Origins and Evolution of Language 40:15 Christianity and Indigenous Faiths 44:15 Final Reflections and Gratitude Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| The Medicine Story: Jungwon Kim & Linda Thai | 30 Oct 2025 | 01:05:37 | |
Hosted by SAND’s Lisa Breschi Almond, this poignant discussion entitled 'War's Long Shadow Part Two: The Medicine of Story' was recorded live as a recent SAND Gathering. The show features two heartfelt stories of their first-hand accounts of post-war trauma shared by Linda Thai and Jungwon Kim. The conversation explores personal narratives of war trauma and generational grief, focusing on the Vietnam War and Korean War, respectively. Linda recounts her family’s harrowing escape from Vietnam and their struggle to resettle in Australia, while Jungwon explores her parents’ experiences and the enduring impact of the Korean War. Emphasizing the importance of storytelling, the session highlights the collective healing and emotional sobriety brought through sharing and listening to these deeply moving stories Topics 00:00 Welcome and Introduction 00:55 Land and Settler Acknowledgement 02:13 Introducing the Presenters 04:16 Linda's Story: A Journey of Survival 39:31 Jungwon's Story: Generational War Trauma 01:02:30 Reflections and Closing Remarks Resources War’s Long Shadow, Part 1 (the first part of this conversation from early 2025) Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| Decolonial Healing & Liberation: Dr. Thema Bryant | 23 Oct 2025 | 01:15:39 | |
In this episode, SAND co-founders and hosts Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo welcome Dr. Thema Bryant, a tenured professor of psychology and former President of the American Psychological Association, to discuss holistic healing, ancestral wisdom, and collective liberation. Dr. Bryant emphasizes the importance of recognizing both individual and collective trauma, the power of storytelling, and the need for interdisciplinary approaches to wellness. The conversation explores the emotional and spiritual aspects of healing, the role of joy and grief, and the importance of community in fostering resilience and thriving. Dr. Bryant also provides practical advice on deepening relationships, finding like-minded communities, and maintaining emotional balance in the face of ongoing trauma. Topics
00:00 Introduction and Greetings 00:53 Introducing Dr. Thema Bryant 01:20 Dr. Bryant's Background and Philosophy 03:11 Grounding Practice and Body Sovereignty 08:32 The Importance of Compassion and Presence 11:52 Intergenerational Trauma and Healing 17:15 Decolonizing and Indigenizing Healing Practices 27:00 Balancing Activism and Self-Care 34:15 Grief and Collective Healing 36:44 Cultural Differences in Grieving 37:59 The Interplay of Grief and Joy 38:28 Toxic Positivity and Spiritual Bypassing 41:07 Constructive vs. Destructive Anger 44:53 The Importance of Emotional Expression 47:03 Creating and Deepening Community Connections 51:00 Collective Healing and Liberation 01:03:13 Balancing Self-Care and Collective Care 01:11:14 Final Thoughts and Resources Resources Dr. Thema Bryant
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| Rongoā Māori: Donna Kerridge | 16 Oct 2025 | 00:58:23 | |
Recorded live at The Eternal Song Seven Day Film Premiere summit with Indigenous voices. Donna Kerridge, a Rongoā Māori practitioner from Waikato, Aotearoa New Zealand, shares insights into her journey bridging Māori traditional medicine and the Western healthcare system. Kerridge discusses the challenges and beauty of indigenous healing practices, emphasizing the significance of connection to nature, ancestral knowledge, and the balance between the physical and spiritual realms. She reflects on her experience watching the film Eternal Song and the necessity of truth in storytelling. Through her work and this conversation, Kerridge elucidates the importance of understanding one's place in nature and the universe to achieve true wellbeing. Hosted by Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo.
00:58 Reflecting on the Film's Impact 03:45 Understanding Rongoā Māori 06:10 The Concept of Wellbeing in Rongoā Māori 10:55 Healing Practices and Patterns of Disease 20:19 The Importance of Ancestry and Connection 22:37 Ancient Knowledge and Modern Science 29:47 Challenges of Being a Healer in Modern Times 32:18 Exploring the Pillars of Ru Māori 33:42 Connecting with the Spiritual Realm 36:30 Healing Through Nature 43:28 Respect and Indigenous Knowledge 45:41 Bridging Western and Indigenous Medicine 52:28 The Role of Ancestral Knowledge 56:25 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections Find out more about The Eternal Song film series and All-Access Pass and the SAND film Mauri which features all three guests from today’s show. | |||
| Reindigenizing Our Ways of Being: Tina Ngata, Diana and Mark Kopua | 09 Oct 2025 | 00:59:50 | |
In this panel from the The Eternal Song 7-Day Global Gathering Schedule, Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo speak with Dr. Diana Kopua, a Māori psychiatrist, Mark Kopua, a cultural leader and master carver, and Tina Ngata, an advocate for indigenous and environmental rights. The conversation explores the significance of revitalizing indigenous knowledge, ancestral connections, and reindigenization. They explore the effects of colonialism, the doctrine of Christian discovery, and the urgency of collective wellbeing practices. The conversations weaves reconnection with ancestral stories, the environment, and indigenizing oneself as crucial steps towards collective healing and resilience. Find out more about The Eternal Song film series and All-Access Pass and the SAND film Mauri which features all three guests from today’s show. Topics 00:00 Introduction of Extraordinary Voices 01:50 Personal Introductions and Backgrounds 07:09 Current Issues in New Zealand 12:24 Colonial Impact on Māori Wellbeing 18:42 Traditional Māori Wellbeing and Ancestral Connections 33:29 Healing Through Ancestral Stories 34:56 Impact of Colonization on Indigenous Mindset 37:04 Reconnecting with Ancestral Wisdom 40:55 Understanding Racism and Education 44:26 The Role of Christianity and Wealth 52:51 Indigenizing vs. Decolonizing 53:35 Practical Steps to Re-Indigenize 56:38 Final Thoughts and Reflections Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| ALTÆR: Iya Affo | 02 Oct 2025 | 01:05:03 | |
Ancestral Bone Mapping & Healing: Reweaving the Soul Through Bone, Beauty, and Ancestral Nourishment with Iya Affo Iya Affo is a Culturalist and Historical Trauma consultant. She earned Western certification as a Trauma Specialist and is a descendant of a long line of traditional healers from Bénin, West Africa. Iya serves as an Executive Board Member for the Arizona ACEs Consortium, is an Adjunct Faculty member at the Arizona Trauma Institute, and is the founder of Heal Historical Trauma Culture & Indigenous Wellness Academy. She has visited more than 30 countries; living in Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, Native American, and Yoruba communities, embracing aspects from each culture for personal evolution. She strives to transcend tolerance through cultivating love and respect in hopes of facilitating the decolonization and subsequent healing of indigenous people from all over the world. Iya advocates for the harmonization of Traditional Medicine and Western Medicine for true holistic healing. ALTÆR is a sacred invitation into ancestral medicine, where the body is honored as shrine, and the bones are read as living scrolls. Culturalist and Historical Trauma Consultant Iya Affo brings her deep-rooted knowledge and ceremonial practice to this space. As a featured presence in The Eternal Song film and founder of the Heal Historical Trauma Culture & Indigenous Wellness Academy, Iya carries experience across many Indigenous communities and advocates for the harmonization of Traditional and Western medicine as a path to collective wholeness. ALTÆR: The Bones Remember – Eight week course with Iya Affo Topics: 00:00 Introduction and Greetings 00:42 Introducing Iya Affo 01:44 Acknowledging Ancestral Lands and Ancestors 04:25 The Importance of Ancestral Healing 09:38 Understanding Coherence and Healing Practices 18:06 Exploring Bone Mapping 28:11 Personal Story: Ancestral Memory and Birth 32:45 A Difficult Labor and Ancestral Memory 34:33 The Impact of Historical Trauma on Black Women 38:47 Bone Mapping and Spiritual Genetics 43:57 Roles of Men and Women in Ancestral Healing 49:53 Healing Practices and Rituals 57:31 Integrating Indigenous Knowledge with Western Therapy 01:03:20 Closing Reflections and Future Courses Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| We Will Not Look Away: Vigil for Gaza | 26 Sep 2025 | 01:13:48 | |
Please join us along with Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, Ashira Darwish, Rae Abileah, Shahd Abusalama, Omid Safi, Reverend Michael Yoshii, and Iyas Sartawari for a reckoning. A collective refusal. A gathering of those who cannot stay silent while genocide is livestreamed. We do not come together to be informed. We come because we already know. We come because we refuse to normalize atrocity. We come to grieve every stolen Palestinian life—every child starved, every family erased. We come to grieve the collapse of our shared humanity—and to ignite what remains. This grief is not weakness. It is fire. It is clarity. It is a declaration: we will not look away. Topics 00:00 Opening Remarks and Introductions 01:24 Shahd Abusalama's Testimony 07:46 Raif Ziada's Poem Recitation 19:53 Rabbi Lynn's Address 28:30 Omid Safi's Prayer and Reflections 40:03 Introduction and Greetings 40:07 Reverend Joshi's Reflections 42:10 Prayers and Songs for the Martyrs 46:09 Ashira's Call to Action 51:28 Rae Abileah's Contributions 52:12 Small Group Discussions 56:21 Project Hope Overview 01:03:59 Final Reflections and Call to Action 01:08:39 Closing Remarks Support Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member | |||
| The Sacred Work of Grief: Francis Weller & Orland Bishop | 11 Sep 2025 | 00:45:50 | |
In this live recording from The Eternal Song Seven Day Premier broadcast, hosts Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo engage in a deep discussion with guests Francis Weller, a psychotherapist and soul activist, and Orland Bishop, a spiritual teacher and founder of ShadeTree Foundation. Exploring themes such as indigenous wisdom, the impact of colonialism, communal grieving, and the necessity of reconnecting with ancestral roots. The dialogue also covers the significance of embracing grief as a communal and necessary process for healing and transformation, and reflects on what it means to enter a 'long dark' period — a time of significant societal and personal upheaval. We Explored grief as a sacred threshold, not a pathology, remembering the soul’s place in a world of fragmentation and reclaiming reverence, slowness, and deep belonging in troubled times. The Eternal Song film series and All-Access Pass ShadeTree Multicultural Foundation (Orland Bishop) Topics
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