Join Shari and Joe as they discuss this weeks episode of the HOF podcast and share their visions for first-time hosts.

Transcript:

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[0:19] Hi, welcome to the Saturday Night Live Hall of Fame Water Cooler Podcast. You know, kind of a short, simple title. Or to put it another way, the SNL HOFH2L Podcast. Just to, you know, hashtag it. I'm Joe.

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[0:43] And I'm Shari.

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[0:44] And we're sitting here next to the water cooler, ready for this week's discussion.

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[0:51] Yep. Are you filling up your cup, Joe? I'm filling mine up.

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[0:55] And I'm good. All right. Let's do this.

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[0:59] Okay. We're going to start it off by talking about this week's episode of the SNL Hall of Fame with the fabulous Thomas Senna and his special guest, Jamie Burwood. Wood jamie is a og snl hall of fame guest she's been on a couple of times and i believe all of her nominees have gotten in christopher walken and will ferrell will ferrell thank you joe because i blanked out and our latest nominee she finally got in in season five molly shannon so yes he's on a roll let's see if she can keep it up with sherry o terry did you want to continue on and uh so yeah.

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[1:48] Uh yeah those two they had a great discussion uh they covered a lot uh so uh but i there's plenty left to discuss uh you know they brought up uh, that Sherry's often paired up with Will Ferrell, who, you know, they performed in the Groundlings together. They started at Saturday Night Live at the same time. Will Ferrell, Sherry Oteri, Chris Kattan. Basically, Saturday Night Live cleaned house around season 20. They got rid of those bums, Chris Farley, Mike Myers, and Kevin Nealon. No, they were great. It was just, they did their term. It was time for a change. It was time for a change. And then they brought in, yeah, Will Ferrell, Chris Kattan, David Kegner, Daryl Hammond, and our focus for today, Sherry O'Terry.

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[2:43] Thank you, Joe. That was a really good lead-in, recap. Thank you. You're coming up with all the good words, and I'm somehow blanking.

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[2:52] It's cool.

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[2:53] I think we're ready with that great recap. I think we're ready to talk about...

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[3:00] Point counterpoint. Uh, so, uh, okay, let's go into pros and cons. All right. Now this week, uh, I'm going to take the pros with Sherry and you'll take the cons.

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[3:12] Yep. We're switching places.

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[3:14] All right. Uh, so, uh, as far as the pros go, the first thing, and I, they mentioned this on the other episode, she is very energetic. Energetic and the word i want to add on to that is she's energetic to the point where all of her characters are twitching i mean like she's just literally like shocking just you know um yeah like with our characters uh laura or whom i think who's the first one um yeah adele and uh.

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[3:53] Where's the other one? The one that, oh, Colette Rairdon. I wanted to bring her up because she probably has a reason to twitch a little bit because she has a big box of prescriptions that she's on. But yeah, Sherry's very energetic to the point where she's twitching, gives 110%, and also she's just Just a hair below chewing the scenery. She's, you know, not hamming it up. She's not. Everything that she's doing with her energy seems appropriate and called for. And it makes sense within the character. So I just want to point out that she never, ever sleepwalks through a part. So, yeah, that's the first pro I got in your con.

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[4:45] Okay, Joe, that is excellent. And she is very high energy. And Jamie Burwood said that same thing. In fact, her exact, well, maybe not her exact words, but her words were she brings a zaniness and a wackiness that is... Unparalleled. That was Jamie's words, and you pretty much reiterated them, Joe. Unfortunately, I'm here to bring the con, and that wackiness and that zaniness and that shout, she likes to shout. She shouts a lot. So her characters, Rita Del Vecchio, and you mentioned Colette Reardon and of course Simma Down Lady very over the top very shouty all of them and sometimes this repetitive habit with the shouting with the so over the top you and Jamie say that's you know that's a positive a lot of viewers and I've heard it from a lot of viewers over the years because I was watching her back in the day, felt like that was too much, like she was trying too hard. So, yes, she's not sleepwalking. She's almost the opposite of sleepwalking, and that gives viewers a lot of fatigue, and I think people got a little tired of that shtick. So that's my con. Back to you, Joe.

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[6:11] I got it. No, and I get to the point where, yeah, because that happens with Saturday Night Live, where even the best characters get old, hence why she got there in the first place. Like Chris Farley was doing Van Down by the River, which to me is one of my favorite sketches ever. That first one with Christina Applegate, I mean, that to me is one of the top five sketches. However, it got old, and that's why they had to get rid of Farley, bring in new people, and that's how Sherry got there. So yes, that happens at Saturday Night Live. I agree. And with her in particular, yes, the shouting and the energy and the –.

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[6:54] Does wear thin so i agree with that so okay my next pro is something i personally picked up on uh when i was doing all this research is her she does characters of all ages and it's almost to the point where it's like the same character just at different spots in her and the character's life like she did alfina which is this hyper character that visits the pilot um ariana the spartan cheerleader we have to mention her but we'll get back to that and then laura zimmerman the character she did with uh chris katan the hyper sexual hyper sexed couple uh and then rita the porch uh dweller and then finally colette reardon the uh prescription taker and it's like this it's almost like the same person at different stages of the character's life and it's it's cool to see the same actor being able to do that um i just thought that was kind of unique, and i enjoyed seeing that okay.

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[8:00] Joe that is an excellent point she she really she really does put her whole self into her characters and she does do a variety of ages and the observation you made about it being almost like the same character at different points in their life was very interesting, but I'm going to go con now, and this is a biggie, and Jamie and Thomas discussed this quite extensively, and that's the fact that, A, she didn't do a lot after Saturday Night Live, a little bit here and there, some voice work, a couple of TV episodes, nothing major, I guess she was on Broadway, nothing.

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[8:42] I don't even remember hearing about that, but apparently she was on Broadway, but it was very short lived. I think she's had some personal stuff. She keeps it pretty quiet. But the other part of this that's bigger to me is she's never really come back to the show. And I'll be curious to see if she even comes back for the 50th anniversary because I do not believe she was at the 40th. So she really, she didn't really make a connection. Like so many of them stay in touch. Like, look at Dana and David have their podcast fly in the wall. Sherry seems like she kind of disconnected from SNL altogether. And I'm sure she had her reasons. But that is a big reason that voters are going to be like, well, she doesn't care enough to come back to the show. Why would I waste a vote on her and get her into the very hallowed halls of SNL Hall of Fame? So I think that's going to be a biggie. I think that might even hinder her from getting that 10% that she needs to just stay on the ballot. So I guess only time will tell, right?

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[9:49] That is a great point. Because here's something else. Because that whole trio of Farrell, Oteri, Kattan, they all started at the same time. It's kind of like all three of them went in separate directions. And when Will Ferrell hosted Saturday Night Live like three times or the first three times, he always seemed to bring back an old sketch, you know, like he did Jeopardy. He also did that one couple, the middle school singers with Anna Gassmeyer.

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[10:24] Right, right, right, right.

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[10:25] And you would think at least once that they would, you know, when Will Ferrell's hosting, that they would do the cheerleaders. You know like that to me is iconic as, You know, Farley and Spade, Wayne and Garth. Right. You know, like, Will Ferrell, because like we mentioned over and over again, Ferrell and Oteri, they physically look good together. Like, almost in this, not exactly like this, but almost in a Laurel and Hardy type way, where Will Ferrell's tall, Sherry's short, you know, and then she brings the energy to make up for it. So she's, you know, in a scene with Will Ferrell, you know, and she's able to catch your eye with her energy, which is both a pro and a con, you know. So, yeah, I agree.

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[11:21] I guess only time will tell. I guess what we really need to do here is encourage people to vote.

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[11:26] Yes. Vote.

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[11:27] If you think Sherry is deserving, vote. Because if you don't, she's not going to stick around so you can vote for her next time. So if you're going to vote, vote because people left last season. Justin Timberlake is gone. Several others are gone because they didn't.

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[11:53] Yeah, they didn't.

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[11:54] The five seasons came and went. And there are some who didn't get the 10% and didn't get to come back this season. So think about that. That's why Joe and I do this pro and con thing. And now I think we're ready to, are we ready to move on now, Joe? Are you good?

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[12:11] Yeah.

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[12:12] All right. We are going to move on to hopes for season 50. And it's only like four weeks away. Yay! I can't believe it either. I can't believe it.

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[12:26] I need a distraction from this election, and what better way to digest the election better than with Saturday Night Live? I need Saturday Night Live to take all of this craziness of the world, not just the election, but just everything that's going on, and I need to see it through the prism of Saturday Night Live.

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[12:44] I couldn't agree more, and I'm so excited. Our hopes for Season 50, themed today, is first-time hosts. Hosts. We're going to talk about first-time hosts. And Joe inspired this idea. Joe, do you want to talk just a little bit about how this all came about? Because I know it has throwback roots for you, nostalgic roots for you. So why don't you let the listeners know all about it?

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[13:15] Oh, I couldn't. And by the way, that's a joke to everyone who knows me because I talk about this to people that don't even want to hear it. So the fact that I'm on a podcast right now and it's the perfect opportunity to talk about it, I just wanted to make that one joke of going.

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[13:32] Nah.

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[13:34] Nah, I'm good. Let's move on. No. So, OK, here's how this list came about. It was about 2006 and Peter Sarsgaard was a they announced or whatever, like on the bumper that Peter Sarsgaard was going to be that the next week's host. And he's a fine actor to everything. Nothing against him. But just at the time, I had no idea who he was. And I'm like, man, it's really random who they get to host Saturday Night Live for the first time, aside from John Goodman, Tom Hanks, Alec Baldwin, Steve Martin, and such. But as far as who gets to host for the first time, it's random because they're usually rising up in fame. Their TV show is becoming popular. They're about to be in a bunch of movies. They just signed a three-movie contract or something. Like they're about to be popular and another person of note is the fact that Bradley Cooper hosted like the February before the hangover came out so it is like you have to really pay attention to who's popular right now and like who's been on the rise and then match that to did they host yet and then if they didn't then they're most likely gonna you know and that's where I try and came up with this list and I just want to give out one more shout out.

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[15:02] To my mom because I used to play this game with my mom until she just lost interest and it became hard but anyway one year I was like hey I made my list and I went on internet movie database tried to see who was you know on the rise and when their movie was coming out and like oh this person has three movies coming out this year and you know it's around in the fall so they probably will be on Saturday Night Live to promote it and stuff like that and I'm trying to carefully analyze and dates and stuff like this and then i kept telling my mom hey mom they're gonna you know the show's gonna come back you better you know because it's kind of cheating if you see who's hosting the first episode and then and then you pick so i kept hounding her hounding her and then i go mom come on let's just do this and she goes all right fine and she takes an issue of entertainment weekly and just sends through it and goes her him him her her and then made her list just off the cuff and then sure enough beat me that year you know like i think she picked out two more than me and i'm like how how you know and and then so and that's another point i want to make is it's it's kind of random and then uh the last thing i'll make to segue back to the podcast uh so originally the what the way i used to play it is uh i made out 25 a list of 25 names.

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[16:25] Because you figure maybe half the people hosting Saturday Night Live would be first time hosts. There'll probably be 12 new hosts, so you figure 25 would give us odds.

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[16:38] But for the podcast, just to keep it simple, do a whole 25, yeah, I guess we'll go back and forth talking about who we think is going to host for the first time in the 50th year.

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[16:52] And also, I think we should also just mention very briefly, if we think they're on the road to possibly returning, if they do get asked, and possibly becoming a Hall of Famer. And then as they show up throughout the season, Joe, we'll come back and look at that and talk about their performance and whether it lived up to expectations and whether we see them being asked back and get continuing on the road to see if we're on target. Game so that'll be fun to watch and also one more thing you listeners out there if you have guesses that you want to send our emails at the end because i don't know by heart yet because this is only our second episode so listen to jd he'll tell you our email and let us know who you think the first time timers are going to be i know that the saturday night network already has this up on their Instagram page, and I tried not to look at it too much. I already had my guesses, so I didn't get spoiled or anything. But we'd like to know from our listeners what you think as well, because maybe it's different from what was in the S&N statistics. We could be wrong. They could be wrong.

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[18:08] We could be wrong.

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[18:10] Absolutely. All right. Did you want to start us off, Joe, with your first? First possible post?

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[18:19] Because... This is a perfect example of, you know, who I think should host. I'm going to go in no particular order except for this first person. She has been on my list for years, and it makes me mad every single week that I see she's not hosting. So the fact that, like, who's the first person I want to put on this pod is Zendaya from Spider-Man and Euphoria, and she's just a great actress. Actress she you know is out there she's it she's the new young actress and you know she's been in the spider-man movies for years and i'm like oh well she's on in the spider-man movies the hbo show yeah she's a the new young talent so and then week after week and year after year um just been eluding me and i know she's gonna and i'm not gonna take her off my list until she hosts so that's my first pick.

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[19:24] Oh joe you we're we're simpatico we're simpatico she's so obvious she had two huge hits last year doom 2 and challengers which they which they talked about out on an episode on the Dakota Johnson episode but they didn't have Zendaya last year so Zendaya I always butcher her name I don't know I'm sorry if you're listening to this but I'm sure she is and and and everybody butchers my name so I I hate doing that I I think it might be Zendaya I, she wasn't my number one I do have mine in the order that I think they're they're likely to be asked because i did go more with people that i think they're really going to ask and i think she's okay that they they have to do but i want to yeah i want to do my number one, I think she's obvious. She's been all over the internet.

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[20:26] Okay, yeah.

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[20:27] She is the it girl of summer. You know they always have to do an Olympian in an Olympic year. So you know who I'm talking about.

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[20:36] Okay.

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[20:36] The fabulous gymnastic rubber band that is Simone Biles. Will she come back? Unlikely. We know what the Michael Phelps debacle was like. But he was on everybody's mind. He was all over the internet. She is everywhere. There are memes featuring Simone everywhere. She has a documentary on Netflix and she's got a bunch of medals. So yeah, this is definitely, I think she's a definite, I think she's going to be a September or October host. But I guess only time will tell. You're next.

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[21:15] So, okay. My next pick is the one who is also, Again, kind of similar to Zendaya. He just seems obvious. He's another guy on the rise. I'm not even going to build him up that much. Glenn Powell, he was in the movie Twisters. He was in Top Gun, Maverick. He just looks like a movie star, like a generic. He just looks like with the perfect teeth and everything. Again, this is another example of when you're making out the list and you're seeing who's on the rise, this guy. And so it just, it's almost inevitable that he will. So when I was making up my list, I was like, him. It was like, easy. Like, moving on. Move along.

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[21:58] Yeah. Well, you know, Joe, another point in your favor for Glenn Powell is he cameoed on the Sidney Sweeney episode last season.

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[22:07] That's right.

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[22:09] Now, do we think he's going to be a returning? I feel like echoes of Jacob Lordy. Like, there's going to be a lot of, he's so handsome sketches. Do you think he's?

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[22:19] You know what? I mean, he could be like Chris Hemsworth, where he's like.

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[22:24] Oh, that's true.

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[22:25] A talented actor. And then he could turn around and do the comedian thing. You know? That's true. So, I mean.

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[22:32] Only time will tell.

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[22:33] Here's the, yeah, this is, you know, the weird thing about going off the first timers list is, it's, because how about this? He did Twisters, Top Gun, and a Netflix show, and they all seemed serious. Maybe after he hosts Saturday Night Live, he'll start doing comedies. And then it'll cycle through. Because he's funny in the movies, he's going to be the guy that comes back to host Saturday Night Live. And then lightning in a bottle will strike. And he'll be in that one skit that everyone's talking about that's viral on YouTube. And then it just dominoes from there. All right.

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[23:08] Well, speaking of serious actors who are on the rise, I think he should have been asked a couple of years ago, this actor that I'm going to mention now. But I don't know how they can't ask him because he is playing Warren freaking Michael in Saturday Night, the Jason Reitman movie that if you're listening to this podcast, you know all about. You've watched the trailer the trailers nerdily like joe and i and jd and thomas and jamie i'm sure looks amazing he is terrific he was terrific as a steven spielberg in the fableman's not steven spielberg but we all know wink wink and he just nailed it and i'm.

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[23:57] Super excited because my friend, I have a friend and her husband is a big autograph hunter in Los Angeles. And he actually took pictures with Gabriel and said he's the nicest, nicest, one of the nicest he's ever met. So that makes me even more excited that Gabriel LaBelle is going to be a big star and hopefully be an SNL host. I think he's a gimme. I mean, wouldn't it be great to see him and Lorne in a sketch with a young Lorne and an old Lorne? How hilarious would that be? So I and I think it's I think it's a gimme. I I can't imagine they won't do it, but maybe it'll be another actor from that movie. But it will be somebody in that cast.

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[24:40] He's on my top 25 list. And everything that you said about it being a gimme, because, yeah, it would be great to do a Lorne off where, you know, where it's funny. But it didn't get the right laugh you know yeah very good paul liked it but then again did it really deserve to be in the top in the first half hour you know like just you know because and on top of it they need to promote that movie you know and they need to have an actor from that movie on the show it'd be weird not to you know like you know so yeah and like you said it has to be someone from the movie. Especially someone playing someone else from the movie. It can't just be... I also want to mention that I think it's kind of weird that William Dafoe... He hosted last year, which is around the time when they were filming that movie. So it's like, was he doing research or like, it just seemed anyway, but it would just be weird if they had J.K. Simmons or William Dafoe or someone else, you know, that's in the cast of that movie that doesn't, that's not playing, or I guess they're all playing someone, but I'm just saying it isn't playing.

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[25:56] Not one of the main.

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[25:57] Yeah, but it needs to be someone that's playing a cast member or if not, Lorne. And then, yes, they need to do a Lorne-off or something, and I agree with everything. So – and then I'll move on to my pick, which is – okay. So this one is someone who I think could be in the Hall of Fame, yes, as a host, obviously. And that person is Nick Kroll. I hope I'm saying his name right. You are.

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[26:28] That one I know.

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[26:29] And, yeah, he had his own sketch show. He's friends with John Mulaney. He auditioned for Saturday Night Live. He's talented at doing characters. He's really genuinely funny. And I believe that, yeah, he would be a great host. And then it would just be like, I'm sure he'll be such a great host that he'll be asked to return.

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[26:53] So i agree and he's friends with a lot of the cast already and a lot of them have been on his uh his animated show big mouth yes he's had a lot of snl i think current and past on that show so he he's a he'd be a great yeah i feel like why why hasn't he been asked that's excellent excellent he's.

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[27:17] Very snl adjacent you know yeah.

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[27:20] Right that's an excellent excellent Excellent guess.

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[27:23] You know? So, and then you're next.

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[27:26] All right. Yes, I am. And speaking of funny. Mm-hmm. Uh, this gentleman is a huge fan favorite and it's funny cause I think a lot of us took him very for granted and didn't realize how funny he was until he left. And he kind of, he's been doing things. He had a show. It didn't make it. I think it only made it one season, but now he's coming back and he's coming back to a CSI franchise, CSI origins. And I know it's on CBS and not NBC, but CSI is a big deal. And I think not only that, but he just did some voice work in Inside Out 2, the Pixar movie. That was terrific, if you haven't seen it. And, of course, I'm talking about the absolutely gut-bustingly funny, drunk uncle, Mr. Bobby Moynihan.

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[28:23] Come on!

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[28:24] He's done cameos. he's done cameos he's done cameos let the guy host he'd be so great i think he'd work fantastically with heidi with mikey of obviously with keenan oh yeah give us bobby moynihan in season 50 come on he deserves to host an hour yes.

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[28:44] And then he could be a returner you know hall of famer and all that.

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[28:48] Oh 100 he is.

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[28:50] Universal he's more than drunk uncle uh yeah he does.

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[28:56] All right, Joe, let's do our wishes now. This means people that we think probably not, not likely, but we would love to see it happen. And I'm going to go first if that's okay.

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[29:13] Please, because just on a side note, before the show started, she let it slip, who it might be. And I've been drooling at the mouth waiting for this moment. So let me take another sip of water from the water cooler.

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[29:25] As well i'm going to take a sip too okay.

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[29:30] Go for it.

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[29:31] Because this is a juicy one yes so i i don't know that this is going to happen political political uh nominees, don't get a whole episode they usually just get cameos it happens rarely and when it does it's It's usually a disaster. I will not name any names. But I'm hoping, I'm really hoping, that Kamala and Tim will joint host an episode in maybe late October, just before the election. How great would that be? And how much would we love? We know Maya's coming back. How much would we love to see maya and kamala and tim and whoever is going to play him face off i don't think steve's gonna do it but whoever does it how funny would that be how great would that be how much would the internet break if that happened so that's my wish what do you think joe because.

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[30:42] The other guy hosted you know on his own equal time that's all i'm saying, Okay, so my honorable mention, dream host, who I think, like, you wouldn't think that this guy, like, you wouldn't think this guy would be a Saturday Night Live host, but if he did, I think he would be insanely incredible, and that is Gary Oldman.

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[31:13] Oh, yes!

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[31:15] Ass he plays every different type of character like there's internet memes that show all the different characters he's played in movies over the years like dracula and he was uh commissioner gordon and batman he was in the fifth element and i'm just like imagine putting him on saturday night live with all these wigs and costumes and in in a sketch show where he has free reign to do Not necessarily Free Reign, but where he is able to do different characters in 90 minutes. Let's see him break free. Instead of playing one character per movie, let's see him do multiple characters in 90 minutes.

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[31:59] I agree, Joe. And he's an actor that's known for being so serious. So how much fun would it be to get to see him play with the cast? So a great one to end on.

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[32:11] Yes.

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[32:11] A great one to end on. All right. Well, it looks like it's almost time to put away our water bottles. But before we do, we have to tell you, we got a great one coming up. The SNL Hall of Fame episode number three is a terrific cast member. You want to take it from there, Joe?

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[32:37] Yes, I do. He is someone who deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. I'll just go right into it. I'm not going to preamble it. It's Garrett Morris. He was very underappreciated when he was a part of the first five years. But then when you saw him, it's like, duh. He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame because of the first five years. I feel like all of them do. and they all need to be, go through the process, you know, of.

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[33:11] Yes, I agree. And we're, we're going to talk a lot more about this in our episode next week. So please tune in to the SNL Hall of Fame with the fabulous J.D. And Matt and Thomas Senna, who are going to be joined by the awesome Darren Patterson from SNL Nerds. If you haven't listened to SNL Nerds, it's hilarious. Him and John Trumbull are terrific. They break down episodes. They talk about SNL movies. And Darren is a wealth of knowledge, and he's going to share his knowledge of Garrett Morris. He hasn't been on since season three, but the two that he's talked about, Tom Hanks and the other one is Dana Carvey. Oh, how could I forget him? One of my favorites. So I know Darren's going to be a great guest. I know we're going to have a lot to talk about next week because Garrett's an amazing cast member. So until then.

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[34:12] Go ahead.

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[34:14] Until then, we're leaving the water cooler, right, Joe?

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[34:16] Yes, putting my paper cup into the little bin that we have here, that little two-foot-high garbage can that you always see at Office Max.

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[34:26] Yep, and my cup is joining you. All right. So until next week, this is Shari and… Joe.

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[34:32] We'll see you next time.

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[34:34] Next time.

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[34:35] All right.

Matt, Thomas, and jD are joined by friend of the podcast, TV graphs own, Jamie Burwood. Before her conversation with Thomas, Matt and jD go through some Cheri Oteri trivia. Enjoy.

Transcript:

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[0:43] Thank you so much, Doug DeNance. It is a great pleasure to be joining you all here outside the SNL Hall of Fame. If you wouldn't mind, as you cross the threshold, please take advantage of the mat out front and wipe those feet. The SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair where each episode we take a deep dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest, or writer, and add them to the ballot for your consideration. Consideration once the nominees have been announced we turn to you the listener to vote for the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined for perpetuity in the hall and that's how we play the game it's just that simple this week we are joined by our friend jamie burwood to discuss the bona fides of sherry o terry but before we do that we are going to talk to our friend matt ardill and matt i've got a question for you my friend.

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[1:44] Are you ready because i've got two words for you sherry o terry matt what have you got well sherry o terry is five foot five foot two born september 19th 1962 in what i what appears to be a snl hotbed upper derby pennsylvania the hometown of tina fey yeah so water there yeah yeah it's just i i guess there's something about that suburban experience that uh makes you crave uh making people laugh um or at least distracting yourself from being there uh she grew up around music her father was a nashville record producer and worked at amn records before joining the groundlings she earned 92 acting credits six writing credits five producer credits and four soundtrack credits um yeah she has played everything from uh the sidekick of inspector gadget to an animated tooth fairy uh she she is one of the uh folks from snl to go on to broadway having starred in the production of Musical the Musical.

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[3:06] And is a friend of Paul Reuben's, playing husband and wife on an episode of Ally McBeal. Went on to be nominated for the Best Dance Sequence at MTV's Movie Awards and the Teen Choice Award for Best Comedian. Well, that's some cool stuff so far. Anything else on Terry O'Terry? No she's kept it pretty private she's one of those uh snl folks who's gone on to uh just just uh step back and and enjoy the show well we ask you to do the same step back and enjoy the show as we head to our friend thomas senna thomas take it away, All right.

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[4:17] Guys. Thank you so much. You're so excited for this episode. Hello, and welcome to the SNL Hall of Fame conversation portion of the episode. Today, I am joined by an amazing guest, a mainstay at the SNL Hall of Fame, for sure. He's been advocated for a lot of great SNL, current SNL Hall of Famers, actually. So, like, what, Will Ferrell? Jamie, how many people have you gotten into the SNL Hall of Fame? I think you're on a pretty good run. I'm trying to think. We've definitely done quite a few episodes. I'd have to look to see what the actual track record is to know the percentage. Yeah, Will Ferrell got in. Yeah, and you were on for Molly? I was on for Molly. I don't think she got in, though. Did she? Well, Molly's a new inductee. Oh, okay. In the latest. Yes. All right. So Molly got in. Christopher Walken.

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[5:09] Yes, that was my episode. So you're on a pretty good hot streak. Okay, okay. I think. Nice. So I think you're the perfect person to come on and chat about Sherry O'Terry. But I'm going to formally welcome you, Jamie Burwood. Welcome back to the SNL Hall of Fame. How are you doing? How have you been? I'm doing good. It's great to be back here this summer. Yeah, just having a good start to the summer, doing some beach time coming up. But yeah, it's been great. Happy to be here. Yeah, beach time for all of us. That's what this summer is about. It's beach time 2024. So I'm glad you're partaking as well. Is there anything you'd like to plug up top before we get started here? Talking about Sherry? Yeah, I feel like TV show graphs is still my go-to account on TV.

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[6:03] Twitter, Instagram, all of the places, tvshowgraphs.com. Yeah, it has the whole library of a lot of the TV-related data deep dives I've done in the past, exploring a few new topics coming up soon. So hopefully as some of the summer travel slows down, there'll be some new stuff up there soon. But yeah, otherwise I kind of have just been chilling the last few months. So enjoying the start of the summer.

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[6:27] Well, I think you've earned it. Your graphs and the website, side that's like quite the rabbit hole like a true tv fan could spend a lot of time going down that rabbit hole it's pretty cool so you you deserve it any sort of break you get you definitely deserve it jamie so today our nominee like i mentioned sherry o'terry right in your will house jamie like i said you've covered the air a few times here on the snl hall of fame and of course today talking about um somebody who's beloved to us sherry o'terry uh jamie for What was it about Sherry O'Terry that may have first got your attention when you saw her? Yeah, I feel like the zaniness and how memorable her characters are. I feel like she's somebody that, in my opinion, doesn't get talked about enough. And in some ways, she is well-recognized. She has her best of collection. I feel like people do acknowledge her role in that era of SNL and just how important it is. But there's just something really captivating about her wackiness and the way that she commits to all of these characters that she does. And I think for me, that was really what drew me in. Like, there's just something about watching a sketch with her where you can't quite look away in a good way, I think.

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[7:47] Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And I think sometimes, maybe sometimes I feel like I might throw around the term underrated or underappreciated a lot. But I honestly think in Sherry's case, it fits. And I have, I guess there are theories floating out there as to why she might be underappreciated. But if you actually look at her work, look at the type of performer that she was, I do think she probably should be talked about more and be held in higher regard than she is. So I really do think there's something to that, Jamie. It's not just like throwing out there like, oh, she's a little underappreciated. Like with Sherry O'Terry, I truly, truly think she is. So neither of us say that lightly. Absolutely. Yeah, I feel like she's somebody who...

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[8:32] Just her role in that era, I hope that people recognize. And just, we've talked a little bit in the past in some of the earlier episodes, but just the role that she had in showing how funny female comedians on SNL can be. And just this willingness to go all out and commit fully. And I don't think she's the only one in her cast who does that. I feel like Molly, Will, many others embody that. But there's something to me special about Sherry in just the way that she went all in on things. And she's somebody who you could put her alongside Will Ferrell. And I would argue she doesn't get overshadowed. They match each other. And the chemistry just builds upon each other.

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[9:19] And I feel like she had this knack for kind of elevating some of these sketches where she was working alongside other greats, other Hall of Famers. And she not only holds her own but just makes things so much better yeah i mean when you're trying to revive snl and we've talked about this before prior to season 21 they did almost a full house cleaning like molly was a carryover norm was a carryover there may be a few care but it was pretty much cleaning house from season 20 to season 21 and sherry i always thought crucial like almost a performer like that's necessary for the revival remind people just like how just how much that season 21 cast just revived this show yeah absolutely i feel like it was just a shift in a different kind of comedy at a time where the show really needed it right like it was away from that kind of like meaner vibe which had its time and place on the show but i feel like there were just aspects that were starting to feel a little bit tired, starting to feel not really keeping up with what people wanted to see. And I feel like the tone of the show really shifted into this very, like.

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[10:40] Character centric we got lots of the great greatest of all time in my opinion recurring sketches recurring characters in this era and i feel like sherry in particular really embodied that kind of character actress character comedian and just not being afraid to be be silly and people responded to that really well i think and i think that was a big part of why why that era is remembered so fondly yeah i think it toward the end there it got exhausting just like there's a lot of that mean comedy a lot of the bad boy quote-unquote stuff and then we entered a stage you're right of like character driven a lot of goofy like a lot of goofball kind of comedy was very refreshing and sherry was such such a vital part of that as far as her path to snl cliff's notes not a ton honestly sherry seems a little private uh not a ton of known about her personal life she's from philadelphia the philadelphia area moved to la in her 20s she's a groundling so she did a lot of quality sketch training before starting at snl her audition was really great i don't know if you had a chance to see it it's on youtube uh so i encourage everyone to check that out but the her audition was like eight minutes and and what she showed in her audition she did three characters that ended up on the show but right away you can see like why Lorne and everybody else who saw that edition were like, we got to have Sherry. So I don't know, Jamie, if you've ever seen the audition. I haven't.

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[12:08] Yeah, I do like them. I haven't watched hers. If I haven't, it's definitely been a while, so I'll have to go back and do that. Yeah, it's really fun. So she had a great audition. You could see why she got chosen for the cast. So she starts off 1995, season 21, Sherry O'Terry, Will Ferrell, the rest of the crew. So I want to get into it. like.

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[12:30] What characters or sketches, Jamie, do you go to when you think about Sherry O'Terry? Yeah, so let me talk about a few characters because I feel like, honestly, most of my favorite Sherry sketches are around some of her well-known characters. And there are a few that are not, which we can talk about, too. But I feel like for me, a few of the ones that stand out, Rita Delvecchio, that like grouchy Philadelphia is the vibe woman who just is, I don't know if mean is the right word, but just that typical like kind of street smart lady.

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[13:11] She's kind of like a little grumpy, but she's pretty likable at the same time. She's kind of that old lady who does who's like no nonsense she doesn't take any crap from the name especially the neighborhood kids i'm going on the porch for five minutes a piece the first one who calls me gets my slipper okay you kids got the whole street to play ball on but you're gonna play in front of my house that's okay because i keep it now okay i keep it it's mine now all right have your mother come get it i hear you smart ass but there's something very likable about her jamie like it's almost do you get the sense when you watch her do rita del vacchio that it's like a one-woman play it is i just for some for some reason that character in particular and like she does all sorts of different brands of like out there characters but for some reason like that what i just feel like is a connection and just work she does it so well and And the writing in most of the ones that she's done for her, I feel like, have been really solid. I feel like they tend to incorporate the host in a really fun way. Just kind of showing her amidst the neighborhood, I feel like.

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[14:23] You then see kind of the host pop up and either like the neighbor or a kid or like all of these different like characters amidst her life. And it always just like feels really natural. Like I'm always happy when one of those sketches pops up in an episode. I'm like, Oh, we get to spend some time with Rhea. This is great. Yeah, no, it's amazing world building. And sometimes you're right. They'll, they'll work in the host and everything. And every now and then a character will come by a lot of times. It's just her standing there a lot of times by her front door, just like yelling at a neighbor. And she's and sherry's doing this such a good job of filling in the other person's dialogue there so it's just her on the screen but she's doing such a good job of making it a conversation.

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[15:04] That only on screen only she's taking part in like she's so skilled at that and the whole role building this is something that she auditioned with she had this character sherry started building this whole world uh at the groundlings that that's just such a testament to her her talents is like a creative mind i think absolutely yeah i love the one with the the screen door and like the kids who are coming up to the screen door repeatedly that one always sticks sticks with me for some reason and you're right that is another example where it's like yes you have kids coming up to the door but she is like owning the comedy in each of those scenes and is having her like wild reactions to each one of those people coming up so completely yeah yeah and And she even made, in that particular installment, she even made kind of a boring host, Steve Forbes, like a very boring host. She actually made him, incorporated him really well into the sketch. She ended up stealing one of the kids' money that was coming up to take donations. She ended up taking the money and all of that. Yeah, that was a really great one with Steve Forbes. She puts a lot of love into that character. I think that's a great first choice.

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[16:08] Yeah, she definitely does. And then I feel like for my second choice, and there's so many. But I just love Nadine and in terms of like when I was in high school and this era was I was in high school in the early 2000s ish so right around this era um there the whole like Simadown now, catchphrase was huge like I just remember friends I don't even know like when people first started saying it. I don't even think I really realized where it was coming from. And just like people embodying this character that she did on SNL only to like later recognize that connection. Excuse me, excuse me. My husband's been in a motorcycle accident. I think he broke his wrist. Yeah, I can't move it. It's swelling up really badly. Okay, everybody simmer down now.

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[17:06] Listen, I would love to simmer down now, but you see my wrist is shattered. So I would encourage I encourage you to admit me now. Sir, your sass is unappreciated here. So before your obelisk becomes shattered, I suggest you fill out these forms and have a seat and then simmer down. That's correct. I love all of the Nadine sketches. I feel like the one with Garth Brooks is probably my favorite, like returning things at the desk there for the name of the store. But to me, that's a classic one and just, it's so fun. It's so fun. Yeah, yeah, I love it. You're right. That whole, the Simudan now, like just totally spread like wildfire. Always like people used to always do the impression where she's trying to start the car. Yes.

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[17:59] Yeah, like, and then it goes Simudan. Yeah, there's all kinds of like different ways you could say Simudan now if you want to get creative. That definitely stuck. She only did it three times. Yep. And it caught on so well. Yeah, I also love the line, like Donna Summer and how does her name appear in the phone book, like Summer, Donna, like that, that to me is just great, great writing, great delivery, so much. Yeah, all those strained ways to make the connection to Simma down now. I love it.

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[18:30] There's two, Jamie, that kind of when I think of Sherry O'Terry, I really connect with. And I'm going to talk about the one that she did the most, Barbara Walters. Yeah. She did that one 21 times, I think, last summer when the SNN, our friends at the SNN, did their character countdown. I believe Barbara Walters ended up on the list for good reason. I think that this is her best character. And something that Sherry said that she worked really hard at, she studied Barbara Walters quite a bit when she found out she was doing this. And there's been Barbara Walters impressions done on the show before. I think this is the quintessential one. What do you what do you say about her Barbara Walters? It's so good and like I Have heard that Sherry somebody who's nervous about like the impression aspect of the show coming in right and it's Not necessarily what you like maybe think of right away with her But this is I agree one of the all-time best things that she did over her time in the show I feel like it's a perfect example to me of an impression that like I.

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[19:36] Is very, like, draws from the real person very well, but then also, like, plays things up in a way that gives it a life of its own so that it's not just, like, purely a copycat, but, like, becomes funny in its own right. Fidel Castro and I were roommates my freshman year in college. And girlfriends, let me tell you, he may be brilliant, he may be stubborn, but what I remember most is that he had some funky B.O. Whenever I see Fidel Castro, I just think he looks like an extra from MASH. I mean, you know what I mean? With that hat. Don't look at me.

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[20:17] I just love any of the like VIEW segments where she popped up. I feel like those were always just a good time and just like meant for comedy, meant for parody. It was great. Yeah, I loved the VIEW one specifically when she would get mad at Debbie Martinopoulos. And she would do things like she one time she told her to go get in the cage that was a classic moment for me when she's like enough she's like go get get in the cage go now and then debbie monotonopoulos would just go do it and and this is just how she would kind of erupt at her you that was so funny and then she would uh reference like casually spending time with famous people and historical figures like i was in the hot tub with fidel castro when i found out that or just like the name dropping is wonderful.

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[21:05] This Barbara Walters was one that could be used in so many different settings, Jamie. I give points for that. If you develop a character or do an impression, and it could be used on a talk show or weekend update, or this is such a versatile character.

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[21:20] I agree. And again, it speaks to the theme of when she pops up and you're excited to see that character. And i think it's one that i don't think anyone could really get sick of or maybe somebody could but i certainly did not get sick of this one ever like i could see this every episode in her era and be happy with that yeah so this might be like if i was going to show one person an example of why i love sherry it might actually be her barbara walters like like this one makes me so happy for sure like amongst many that make me so happy and i'm sure that make you so happy you know like what what's what what's another character that people just can't miss for sherry yeah i feel like colette reardon is one that we should talk about the prescription pill addict lipstick smeared on the face and this is true for a lot of sherry's characters but i feel like there's just like an aesthetic to like the character she commits to and like a lot of times in similar outfits, makeup, just like you, you see that person and you're like, okay, I get what this is trying to be. And then Sherry just.

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[22:36] It to to another level it's a good thing that the phone's on the fritz because sometimes i gots to shoot methadrine so i can fire up my toro leaf blower to clean my front lawn falls a bitch dick i don't care how you slice it methadrine you ever try a rake.

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[22:57] Oh really any poop after five hours of methadrine fueled leaf blowing i get kind of confused and start making long distance phone calls i don't know how many of the um of the clut sketches there were i know she appeared a few times maybe on weekend update and then a few standalone sketches maybe like five okay yeah yeah yeah it felt like more honestly such a lived-in character yeah i feel like super memorable one um there was one where i.

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[23:28] Feel like a phone is involved like you have pills coming out of the phone and she's trying to eat the pills which amazing physical comedy just this type of character i feel like she does really well and not in a hateful way like it's a character that you kind of have to like walk that fine line with right because it's like a little bit of a extreme scenario but you come away just being like oh my gosh this character is fabulous and and laughing all over well that's one thing that you know when i had john schneider on for the kristen wigg episode and we talked about when she would do characters uh and impressions that she didn't come at it in a mean way so we used as an example like target lady for kristen and wig that could have been done mean but you can tell there was love put into that and i think somebody like colette you know she she's whacked out on all these pills and and her hair's messed up messy lipstick she's always trying to hit on whoever and uh but like there's still an element of just like she sounds it seems like sherry has love for that character she's not trying to.

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[24:36] To totally be mean to those kind of people or whatever. It's just like they almost... All of our characters almost seem likable, even as wacky as they are. That's such a gift, I think. It is. It really is. I feel like it's...

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[24:51] You kind of see the other level of some of these characters and you watch them and you laugh, but you also just are like, oh, I want to spend time in this world and with this person and just see what antics they're up to. And she did that so well. Yeah, absolutely. This is one of the prime examples to me of a comparison that I've made with Sherry. Kind of think she always reminded me of Mike Myers on screen.

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[25:16] Like just her energy. energy uh if she was in a sketch she was best as the the focus the focal point of the sketch she and mike both like every now and then they would kind of play the straight character the background but that's not what they did if it was a mike myers sketcher it was a sherry o'terry sketch i think or maybe she had a co-pilot and will ferrell sometimes or molly or something but she has this she had this mike myers energy about her that i see pop up in characters like Colette I don't know if I'm off base if we love to make comparisons as SNL fans but Mike Myers and Sherry Oteri was always one that that struck me yeah I can definitely see that like the the leadership in the like just like you said sure you could put her in a background role but it's it's almost a waste like you you want to see her in that that spotlight and I I feel like she has that kind of like magnetic quality yeah for sure um well what's uh what's another what's next on your list yeah i feel like we gotta talk spartan cheerleaders we talked okay during the episode but i again i feel like if you ask people on the street about sherry especially like more a casual fan or someone who.

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[26:35] Maybe not like dedicated to this era as much but that, recurring sketch I feel like is just cemented into pop culture history in a really cool way and I feel like whenever I go back and watch some of these it, am impressed at just how her and Will feed off of each other. It almost feels like improv in some ways. Like, oh, yeah, as much as they're like, the writing is great, not to discount that, like, it just feels like they are in the moment just having fun as two performers, just like.

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[27:11] Each going off of each other. And it, there's just an energy to these ones to me that I feel like is hard to top yeah you're right and i think no that's actually a credit to the writing that doesn't discount in any way i think paula pell who helped them write these was probably the third spartan cheerleader in these in these sketches like she did an amazing job but you're right like like uh showcasing sherry's talents unreal physical performer.

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[27:36] She the way sometimes that she would just leap into will ferrell's arms and they would she would do this weird pose and or will ferrell would just like carry her around in a weird way like sherry Sherry was just fearless, such an amazing, fearless performer. I hope that when people see the cheerleader sketches, they're just not focused on Will, because Sherry's arguably topping his performance in this, honestly. I always thought Sherry was the better performer in these sketches specifically. I agree, actually. And I'm not sure how that dynamic played out in terms of, like, Like, was Will tempering in, like, letting her really be the super zany? And, I mean, he was pretty zany, too, so it's all relative. But I feel like that's the thing that surprises me the most re-watching these is, like, everyone knows, like, Will Ferrell. He's huge. He's, like, had such a big career. People think, okay, Spartan Triller is him. But you watch these and you're like, oh, my gosh, Sherry was killing it. And, again, not only, like, matching him but in some cases, like, going beyond. And that's really cool because I think, again, not everybody...

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[28:46] Thinks of that but when you watch it it's there it really is oh my god ariana can you believe summer's over already i know craig i already missed my summer job at kenny rogers roasters i'm still getting the newsletter though.

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[29:03] Well i'm glad my lifeguarding job is over i did not enjoy taking off my shirt no no craig tomorrow morning we are going to be real spartan cheerleaders this has got to be our year, It was an awesome idea to practice all night. Yeah, and my parents will never know I'm gone. I put my brother's blow-up doll underneath my sheets. Oh. Yeah, she would do these little things as Ariana, like, to give the character neurosis. Like, if it was a little sigh or nervous laughter or something like that, she was very expressive in her face and just the little, like, breaths that she would take. Like, something as a sketch performer, I always admire when I notice those little things, those little small beats that you know sherry thought about does naturally whatever but they're out there and uh yeah this is um if if not barbara walters maybe the cheer maybe ariana the cheerleader uh could be up there as far as like the quintessential sherry especially physically like as a physical performer i'll put ariana right up there and then one other recurring her in character that I want to make sure we talk about. And I think we only got this one a handful of times, but Althea, the little child who in one sketch is on a plane and another is on a bus, Sherry just going full-on annoying.

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[30:27] Child in her layers of pink jackets and clothing and just embodying that... Hyper, chaotic, says-anything kid. I especially love the one with Chevy Chase as the pilot. I feel like to me that's the one that stands out. Dr. Burke, we're going to visit my Aunt Jane in Colorado, where it's called. My Aunt Jane has a life partner. Her name is Judy. They're not married. They're life partners. Life partners! Life partners! Althea, Althea, come on out. Watch the controls now. With my nose will any flight attendant please report to the cockpit any flight attendant please report to the cockpit run to the cockpit.

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[31:21] That's the one actually uh the althea on a plane she actually auditioned with that too so that's like part of her audition really yeah she had the cap and everything like the whole the glasses like it was fully formed in the audition like it didn't seem like they changed much at all from the audition to to the air it does feel like one that like i feel like there's certain characters where they feel like okay this person like cared to develop this and it has that kind of like personal touch and i can absolutely see that with this one right it just seems like a character that she knows that she can embody very naturally um yeah this is just a really fun And I feel like, especially in the plane one with Chevy, the deadpan-ness of his character and the annoying.

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[32:11] Just chattering away child of her character is just, it's such a fun, fun match and made for an awesome sketch. Yeah, for sure. and she would say things like not just weird things as a child but she would say like really precocious like things that like an adult would say or maybe she's repeating what an adult told her but but she would kind of like surprise the audience a little bit or the person she was interacting with by saying something really mature and adult like something beyond like you shouldn't know that or you shouldn't be saying that that's kind of interesting that you're saying that so i like that layer to this character it's a really fun one agreed yeah no i i feel like this is one that just feels very like true to sherry and like everything that she embodies yeah there was a uh along the lines i think of like the colette or alfea there was a one-off i don't know if you had a chance to see this one um her name's roberta it was sherry did this like in the the sixth episode of her first season. So she played somebody named Roberta and it was this dad work colleague who invited herself over to Thanksgiving dinner.

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[33:22] So it was just very weird energy. She was very inappropriate. I'm surprised this actually wasn't a recurring character because this happened really early on in Sherry's career. But she just said these weird things that she thought were just normal, but everybody at the table was like, Oh my gosh, I think, I want to say Jennifer Aniston was in the sketch. But y'all should go look up Roberta because it's like a spiritual cousin to somebody like Colette or Althea or even Rita, like one of these just crazy characters. So I wanted to throw out that a one-off. Oh, that's so exciting. Are Sarah jetting off to Paris? Have you ever been to Scranton?

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[34:06] Nope. Don't count it out. The beauty of the skyline alone made me do a double take. I stayed at the airport Ramada. Ooh, Ramada. It was funny because they hadn't washed the sheets. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. How is that funny? You didn't let me complete the tale. Oh, wow. The other one-off one that I love is with John Goodman playing Adele as the, like, flirty office character. Character just like basically coming in kind of dressed in her like scantily clad outfit um, saying things that are very obvious innuendo and then like going the next mile of explaining every little thing like this this one to me is just like really funny and again great great writing and like all of the different like innuendos that they throw out there, but she super committed, just like very physically on every person in the sketch. It was a fun one. Yeah. Well, this boy's got one thing in his pants that I'd like to wrap my sweaty little mitts around. I'm talking about putting my hands on your penis.

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[35:33] Yes, and again, there's no confusion there. Adele, we got it. Thanks. Well, speaking of getting it, I'm gonna head over to the old icebox and get my oyster platter.

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[35:48] What you looking at, fellas? this is a broke yeah she's totally owning the room in that too like like the office like she's just kind of making her way going to uh everybody i think i remember at one point she um says something suggestive to rachel dratch yes and rachel dratch is like i'm just an intern, i'm just a temp yeah why are you doing this and so yeah yeah that was a really funny one yeah that probably could have been a recurring character yeah as well i could have seen like obvious innuendo lady or yeah like in different settings like we had the office setting and put her in other like various professional worlds i feel like would have been yeah for sure uh there's what if so i i think i said something like she puts a lot of love like it doesn't seem like she, dislikes her any of her characters if there was one where she it was more so making fun of a type and maybe you could sense like there's some sort of meanness underneath the surface it was with the morning latte one yeah oh yeah we gotta talk about that yeah yeah morning latte she and will the dynamic duo again they first did this and i think in season 23 and then they just did a run of them uh famous ones with like chris farley was in a was in a really famous one just a lot of like hyper dumb energy jamie i love these ones yeah these these are great i feel like just that.

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[37:14] Perfect morning talk show shtick and I know we've seen that from like a few cast members over the years but something about this one and this pairing we talked a little bit about like the improv vibe a little but I get that from this as well I'm just like two great people sitting down having fun I know Sherry has mentioned this as like one of her favorite recurring sketches at at some point and it it does just feel like fun fun riffing and just a little bit different from some of her other characters um in a way that's that's kind of fun like yeah crazy but like in a in a different way and more of that like contain talk show still weird but different kind of weird, yeah they're just so funny like they were uninformed about what was going on in the world So we're recording this the day after Joe Biden announced he was stepping down as the Democratic nominee. This is something that the morning latte people would be surprised by the following morning. Or they'd be like, did you hear that Joe Biden? They would just say it with such surprise because they don't follow the news, but they're supposed to be talking about a part of this morning show. They have terrible taste in movies. Cass, how was your weekend? Did you and Eli finally see Good Will Hunting? No, I did something even better. We saw Spice World. Ooh.

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[38:41] That's supposed to be good. Frank, have you seen Spice World yet? I don't know what that is. Oh, well, I'll tell you. You know what I found myself saying after I saw this film? Move over, hard day's night. No kidding. Yes. No, I'm saying these gals are fabulous. That's what I've heard. Yeah, they have got more talent than anything out of Britain or England. Wow. Wow. Wow. Do you like when sketches have like, familiar beats within the sketch how is that for you as a viewer i i do really like that actually i feel like they're i don't know if it's like the comfort or just the style of i don't mind that at all as long as the the jokes are there to kind of hold it up still i i like that and i feel like for this one in particular there was something about that just like kind of.

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[39:31] Sim like i don't know if that's the right word but just like not quite there a little bit like like you said, in their own worlds, combining that with the talk show format was enough to me. Sometimes you don't have to try to reinvent the wheel or do something crazy. It worked because the performers were great. And I think that's a testament to Sherry and to the cast. For sure. They would always involve their producer. So a lot of times the host would play. So John Goodman, Chris Farley, they would involve the producer. I love the bit where Will would say a word and sherry would interrupt him and confidently give a definition that was wrong and she would just say it so confidently like and of course that means this and then will would say no like i just i yeah i love those beats they did a perfect caricature of those cheesy morning show i was part of a morning zoo radio show so i can kind of relate a little bit to that this is something you don't think it's talked about enough and maybe within like snl fan community sure but like i I feel like there needs to be just, like, a giant reel of all of these, like, just great quotes and great moments from this. I feel like it holds up. And sure, some of the pop culture stuff is very much a relic of the time, but the jokes and the...

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[40:48] Dim-wittedness of these characters and how funny that can be i think does really hold up yeah yeah absolutely go back and like deep dive like binge on these morning lattes i found some on tiktok so i googled search and then they came up on tiktok a lot i've been seeing that more and more for snl clips like and i'm i'm not a big tiktoker but i am like okay this is this is kind of refreshing to me that like that's out there in another way for people to kind of discover moments from the show's years past. Yeah, I don't know the TikToks very well, but if they have a lot of SNL sketches, I'll probably visit a lot more. Yeah.

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[41:26] She did another, we talked about the Barbara Walters impression. She did another impression that really stood out to me, but I want to give the floor to you. I want to see if our brains align with maybe the next one that's on your mind. I'm just kind of curious. A little experiment here, Jamie. So what do you got for us next? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, my, this one's probably going to be, I think the only other one I had for a recurring that I definitely wanted to talk about was Zimmerman's. Okay. I don't think that's what yours is, because you were saying yours is an impression, right? Yeah, exactly. But I want to hear your thoughts on the Zimmerman's, though. Oh, I mean, the Zimmerman's, gosh, so, so fun. So we have her and Chris Kattan as this like super always breaking out into very inappropriate over-the-top sexual moments and just like can't keep their hands off of each other and, these are just so funny to me like going from the like sexually charged madness to nothingness and to often like blaming the other person in the room like the other couple or whoever else is around in the sketch for like, oh, you guys are inappropriate, or oh, how dare you, like, I feel like that, that in some cases was like the, the conclusion, but the...

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[42:46] Just these moments of like kind of like one upmanship of the just how over the top like sexual energy how much they can bring to the table was just so genius so fun to watch and to re-watch like i feel like if folks haven't revisited these in a while they to me really hold up in terms of the the physical comedy and like just some of the moments and just how some stuff that i'm actually like okay you got that on on tv i know obviously it's late at night and that's the business of snl but um yeah some pretty like vulgar stuff i feel like they got in there which which was fun they did i know it was pretty risque and chris katan's a cast member who i've had a mixed kind of relationship as a viewer with i wasn't always the biggest chris katan fan but i think sherry brought some good parts of chris katan out in these sketches they have a a similar energy so i can see how their kind of energies play off each other well even though i think i really think sherry's a much better sketch performer than chris katan had better snl career but i think she brought out the good parts of chris katan yeah in these that's why i do like watching these agreed yeah i feel like that was a pairing that i enjoyed.

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[43:58] Seeing and i have a similar kind of thing with chris katan of like different doses or different moments is like the right amount for me but i do feel like there's a little bit of a a parallel to me i do hear them sometimes get talked about in like similar conversations and just as some parallels i think with with the roles they played um and just their like relationship with the show itself but this one to me is just like taking those parallels and.

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[44:29] Like putting it to good use because there could be a world where and sometimes this did happen like both of them was too much for one sketch but this is like you're pairing them romantically and like telling them to just go all at it and have fun with it and it it works yeah no i completely agree this is worth a deep dive for a lot of snl fans this is fun a fun revisit and it captures the era a lot because we were talking about like goofball sketches coming off the heels of of not so goofball maybe more mean stuff like yeah so this is like a good example of kind of that goofball energy she did an impression that.

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[45:05] Judge judy oh yeah yeah i really really love she played judge judy like perfectly no nonsense tough lady um fun interplay between her and tracy morgan as the bailiff uh so i really enjoyed her judge duty judy i thought it did great justice to the real judge judy hey hey hey hey look at me look at me i'll take a pig to the butcher when i want to eat baloney. Got it? Hey, got me? Hot judge, cold cuts. All right, Miss Diamond, what sort of training do you have? What's your background as a clown? I never took no courses, but my mother really encouraged me. Whenever the circus came to town, she would drop me off and leave me there for a few days.

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[45:49] Did your mother teach you how to make those disgusting animal balloons? No, they are my own design, tight ass. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey i'm the only tight ass in this courtroom it's right here right here okay yeah i gotta go back in and watch because that's what i i didn't watch for my my rewatch here but i remember yeah from from years past so um yeah if that one is available easily i'll i'll revisit that one again i think that a lot of them are on tiktok so like just the little beats like she came up with little sayings that were funny she would say things like i'll take a pig to the butcher or when I want to eat bologna or I'll grind the organ when I want the monkey to dance and just like these little Judge Judy-isms. Judge Judy actually came on as herself one time and I thought that was pretty fun. Like sometimes I'm hit or miss on like when the actual person comes on. But I think Sherry...

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[46:43] Sherry reacted pretty funny to the real Judge Judy. And she kind of interjected sometimes. And Judge Judy would tell her to go away. And so I thought that was fun. So I think Judge Judy, she did about five of them. I think so. So I think it's worth a revisit for Sherry O'Terry. Another really good impression, I think, Judge Judy. So Jamie, post-SNL, Sherry O'Terry. So not a ton. So she did guest appearances here and there. She was in Shrek the Third, Grown Ups 2. who I'm a big Curb Your Enthusiasm fan, so she was in a memorable episode of Curb for me. A lot of voice acting for animated shows. She was in Scary Movie, the first one, but she never found a project to lead. So do you think it was like a missed opportunity by studios or did something about her style not translate post-SNL? Yeah, it's an interesting one. I feel like her comedy on the show was very much going all in on these zany wacky characters and I could see that leading to a situation of how do we actually take this and put this in more of a film or TV, outside of sketch comedy role I think that, is part of it I know she's talked a little bit about how she.

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[48:02] On SNL it was about comedy first as opposed to like acting outside of sketch comedy and how people have a tendency to kind of like then put you in that lane and i i think that that may be part of it she's someone who like when she does pop up though i always really enjoy seeing her and like curb is a perfect example she's great on that um she had a guest star yeah exactly yeah she popped in on crazy ex-girlfriend which is one of my my favorite shows like was was happy to see her there um so I I'm okay with that and I don't know what like her goals are like what she wants or wanted from her career but I am okay that some cast members aren't like.

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[48:51] Blockbuster every month kind of vibe that that's not the direction their career took like i.

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[48:58] Like seeing her when she has pop up i hope we continue to see those little bits and pieces and i do love her in the comedy roles and and i don't know if that's again what she wants or if she's wanting to was wanting to expand beyond that but i'm happy having her pop up in some of these great shows from time to time no i completely agree like they're not all going to be will ferrell and just take the like be a blockbuster movie star it's not gonna happen with every uh cast member so i'm completely with you i think the thing that maybe is more unfortunate that's impacted her legacy on snl amongst fans is i don't think she's come back to snl yeah like really at all since she left the show in 2000 and i think that kind of sucks jamie i think that's unfortunate i don't know particular reasons why i've kind of heard maybe some stuff But I don't know about you, but I think we're missing out on like Sherry O'Terry not coming back to the show. Agreed. I feel like she's less integrated to like the click of SNL where you see, okay, this person has a show. They're going to bring in all their SNL friends. And you just see this kind of world.

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[50:05] And there can be many reasons for that. Again, I know there are like different theories of like, oh, she was tough to work with or this and that. And, like, I personally have kind of tried to give her the benefit of the doubt among that kind of discourse just because I don't know what happens. I haven't – nothing that's been horrible where I'm like, oh, my gosh, we cannot talk about this person in the history of SNL. I feel like she is somebody who –.

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[50:34] Again, is not super connected with, like, some of the other folks in the show, and I don't know why, and I don't even know that, like, I could. There may be valid reasons for that. There may be invalid reasons. I don't know. I guess what I will say is, like, it's a bummer in the sense of, like, I would love to see her come and host, and she would be a phenomenal host.

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[50:54] So if those circumstances change and she does become more integrated and we get to see more of her in that context that would be an amazing bonus but also if it's a situation where she did her time and that was a period in her life and now she's doing other things i'm okay with that too but yeah yeah the more sherry the better yeah right i know and i don't want to it's hard to speak to like the dynamics between her and her cast members because we weren't there we don't know one thing that she has said though she said she was nervous a lot around the office and she said she would get really nervous before sketches she was nervous during the week so she said she was like this ball of nerves yeah when she was at snl she craved the approval from lorn she really did she she told a story about how norm had to kind of talk her down before a sketch or something like like she just was always just this ball of nerves and maybe she was so nervous that like it kind of prevented her from forging those tight bonds and because i would love like we see dratch come back we see molly shannon we you know sherry o'terry was such a significant arguably bigger than like a dratch or somebody like that but i mean do you think like her not coming back has hurt her legacy a little bit i think it it makes her maybe less known or less talked about in like the fabric of the history of the show to me it doesn't change the like legacy of of what she did for the years and the seasons that she was on the show and doesn't diminish the work.

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[52:23] It maybe contributes to this kind of underrated vibe that comes across because I feel like.

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[52:31] As a result of not being in some of those places, she does get talked about less. And so then when she is talked about, it's like, oh, wait, don't forget about Sherry. She was amazing, too, and also part of redefining this era. So I think that's where I see the connection. Yeah, I'm with that. I think our discussion here hopefully has caused people to go back and remember and just kind of say, like, oh, yeah, Sherry Oteri, she actually was that great. So hopefully this can go towards serving that. So now's the time, part of the show, where you kind of speak to the voters, you speak to the audience, you're speaking to the water cooler.

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[53:08] And, I don't know, Jamie, tell them, why should SNL fans still hold Sherry in high regard as a great cast member? Absolutely, yeah. So Sherry was part of this crucial era of redefining SNL, saving SNL, really showing folks a new way that SNL can be funny. I feel like she was a trailblazer for female comedians on the show. I feel like she paved the way for a lot of the greats that we saw in years to come alongside her cast. I feel like the timing that she had, her ability to excel and really own these character-based sketches was phenomenal. She had this incredible ability to do over-the-top, crazy, fun characters so well, which were so important to that era of the show and what it was all about. Out and I think she really deserves her credit and and props for for that role that she played so I absolutely think that Sherry should be remembered as one of the greats and for playing a critical role in in SNL's history.

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[54:37] So there's that thank you so much thomas and welcome back jamie burwood really great to hear your voice extolling the virtues of sherry o terry i gotta tell you when thomas started to talk about impressions that Sherry O'Terry was part of. And he mentioned Barbara Walters. I was immediately taken back. And I just think that character really exemplifies a lot of what she was capable of and able to do. It's silly, but it's on the mark. And it's a lot of fun. Let's take a listen.

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[55:40] Good morning, I'm Meredith Vieira, and welcome to The View. We've got a fabulous show today, right ladies? Oh, we certainly do, Meredith. We certainly do. Okay, let's take a look at the news. Paula Jones went face-to-face with President Clinton today. He gave his deposition regarding her sexual harassment suit. Now, Star, you're a lawyer. Yes, I am. Now, President Clinton allegedly exposed himself to Ms. Jones and allegedly asked for sex and allegedly Ms. Jones said no, which disappointed the president, allegedly. You know, I was paired with Paula Jones in a three-legged race at Larry King's Fourth of July barbecue bash. And she assured me that President Clinton's member had more twists and turns than the curly fries at Arby's. It's true. Well, I just don't understand what the big deal is. I mean, if a guy whips it out, you just have to be assertive and say, like, hey, don't whip it out, you know?

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[56:41] You're very young, Debbie. Very, very young. All right, this next story is amazing. Chicago physicist Richard Seed wants to open a clinic that would clone human babies. Amazing, right? Now, allegedly, he's going to clone a baby by the year 2000, and what this means is that he's going to take a baby and using signs, he'll make an identical baby to that baby really, really soon. Mm-hmm. You know, there are three people that I would clone. Albert Einstein, Diana, Princess of Where's, and Hugh Downs, my co-host this week on 2020. Well, if I had a clone, I'd make out with myself.

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[57:31] I'm just kidding. Do not speak again. Our guest today is a big star. She is one of the big actresses in the world, allegedly. Please welcome my girl, Glenn Close. Hey!

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[57:58] You are strong and inspirational, and you are one of the whitest women I've ever seen.

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[58:06] I'm delighted to be here. Glenn, you have done so much. Acted in award-winning films. Performed on Broadway. Only one question remains. What do you think of me? Well, Barbara, I admire you tremendously. I've always thought that you would... Oh, you know what I have to ask you about? I want to ask you about that scene in the big chair where you let your husband get that other lady pregnant. Mm, I could not do that. Because I am a do-right woman, and I have to have me a do-right man. Yes. We know that about you, Star. That's done in a nutshell. That's done in a nutshell. Oh, Glenn, I have a question about John Malkovich. What's that? He is so sexy. Ugh. Oh. What's the question? Oh, speaking of questions, it's time for the question of the day. Okay. Today's question comes from Marlene Kimball of Tulsa, Oklahoma. And, Glenn, this question should be really good for you. If you could change one thing about your face, what would it be? Well, nothing. This face has served me very well. Well, I think women need to embrace the uniqueness of their flaws. Wouldn't you all agree?

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[59:31] I don't go in for plastic surgery. If I could change one thing about my face, which is allegedly very big, I would tell those doctors to suck some of this fat out of my neck.

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[59:42] Well, thank you, Glenn, for coming by. That's it? Oh, my God. You know what I just realized? You're the mean lady from 101 Dalmatians. Cruella de Vil. Yeah, now I know who you are. You're evil. Stand over there! Go! Stand over there! Quicker! Stick around. In our next segment, we'll be talking about female circumcision with Naomi Judge.

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[1:00:11] Oh, man. Yeah, that brings back some memories. That's like the original View cast that they were parodying there. And allegedly, I will say, Sherry O'Terry has a path to the SNL Hall of Fame. I believe it. Not a first ballot Hall of Famer, I don't think. We'll get more on the water cooler this week and see what Joe and Shari have to say.

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[1:00:41] Next week, we are discussing Garrett Morris with our friend Darren Patterson, and it should be another great, great episode for you all. Now, that's what I've got for you this week. So, if you would do me a favor, and as you're leaving and walk past the Weekend Update exhibit, turn out the lights, because the SNL Hall of Fame is now closed.

This week we're back with the popular Roundtable episode of the program. In this version we invited Ashley Bower and Deremy Dove to share their ballots with host Thomas Sena. Enjoy and don't forget to vote!

https://forms.gle/ECAVQbPBE6r3krpS6

Transcript:

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[0:42] Yes, hello, welcome to the SNL Hall of Fame podcast.

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[0:45] I'm your master of ceremonies, your co-host for today's proceedings, Thomas Senna. Everybody, welcome. I think I would be remiss, and I think I need to do, Jamie, do a solid here, because it's very important to Jamie for me to tell you to wipe your feet before you enter the SNL Hall of Fame. I think Jamie would fire me from this post if I didn't tell you guys that. So welcome to the SNL Hall of Fame. Today is our customary end of season extravaganza. It's the SNL Hall of Fame Roundtable. This is the show in which we invite SNL Hall of Fame voters to share their ballots and their thought processes behind their choices. So this is always an interesting exercise to get into the psyche of some of the voters.

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[1:40] Previous roundtables, I think minds have been changed. I think people have stood on islands and been steadfast on who they're voting for. It was interesting to see. I think we all just gained a great insight as to what voters may be thinking. Friendships were formed. I think rivalries were formed. So we've had some interesting roundtables in the past. It's always nice to get a peek into the mindset of SNL Hall of Fame voters. So with me today is two of my guests for this past season on the SNL Hall of Fame podcast.

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[2:16] One first-time roundtable panelist, which is going to be fun. I'm excited to hear her thoughts today.

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[2:24] So we have two panelists, and for full disclosure, for transparency here on the SNL Hall of Fame podcast, I will be sharing my ballot as well. So it's going to be the three of us sharing ballots today. So I'm not just like the co-host here on the SNL Hall of Fame. I am a panelist today, and I will give some transparency and let you all know my ballot and how I'm feeling about the voting cycle, about the votes this year. So without further ado, let me introduce our panel for today. And I have an icebreaker question, too. So I'm going to introduce them. My icebreaker question, I asked this last panel, last roundtable, and got some interesting responses. I haven't asked these to this question. I don't think. So...

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[3:15] I want to ask which current cast member, not including Kenan Thompson, because that's the obvious one. Kenan's an SNL Hall of Famer. So not including Kenan Thompson, who on the current cast could you see in the SNL Hall of Fame someday? So that's going to be the little icebreaker question. Get a little peek into the mindset of our panel today. So my first guest, Ashley Bauer, SNL super fan. My guest for Kate McKinnon this year. Ashley did such a great job. And Ashley, thank you so much for joining us today here on the roundtable. How are you? Good. Good to see and talk to you again. Excited to be back. Yeah, this is great. So which current cast member, not including Kenan, that's the obvious one, could you see in the SNL Hall of Fame someday?

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[4:03] So I thought about this and I went back and forth between two, but I think my vote's going to ultimately go to Bowen Yang. I'm going to have to give it to Bowen. And I think he kind of came out of the gate, you know, really with a bang. And he's really been in some pretty epic and memorable sketches already. And I kind of think he's a jack of all trades. And it's rare that he's in something I'm not dying of laughter in. So, yeah, I'm going to go with Bowen. Bowen's like Mr. Charisma. He really is. I love the iceberg weekend update sketch that he did. That was a really great performance. It's like one of the most memorable things that I can think of that Bowen's done. He's just a very likable person, a lot of charisma. Bowen Yang, Ashley could see in the SNL Hall of Fame someday. That's awesome. All right, so also with us is my partner in crime on the Pop Culture 5 podcast. He also is co-host of the Bigger Than the Game podcast. He's just podcasting all over the place.

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[5:07] He's everywhere. And he was my guest for Tracy Morgan. this season on the SNL Hall of Fame. So I'm welcoming Mr. Deremy Dove to the proceedings. Deremy, how are you? I'm good, man. Always a pleasure to talk SNL and SNL Hall of Fame with you guys. So I'm honored to be on. Yeah, you're one of our go-to guests for the SNL Hall of Fame. Your insights are always so great. So welcome. You've been on for Dick Ebersole. You were on for Adam McKay and this year for Tracy Morgan, which was an interesting one. I think we did Tracy Justice with kind of a more loose sort of format I think Tracy would have wanted it that way I agree I agree absolutely yeah that was fun so who on the current cast not including Keenan could you see in the SNL Hall of Fame uh like like Ashley said it was there's a few who I was going back and forth with but I I went with James Austin Johnson um as my pick I think he um.

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[6:02] He really brings, I love the impressions he does, and he kind of fits that mold of like what I think of. I think of just like what you need to make a great SNL cast member. He has that design. I feel I get like some Daryl Hammond kind of feels from him. I just really love what James Austin Johnson can bring to the table. And I see him. I don't know if he's going to be like the big star, but he's that person when we have rankings in a few years. It's going to be like, we'll be surprised. We'll be like, oh, James Austin Johnson, he's a Hall of Famer. He's a top whatever cast member of all time. So he's who I pick as like that future Hall of Famer for the current cast. I could see that.

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[6:44] He's not just, so he started obviously with his Trump and Biden impressions. And I think he got hired on the strength of that. But he's not just an impressionist. I think he's filling out a lot of important kind of glue guy types of roles. He's kind of branching out and not just being an impressionist. Right, right. Yeah, he plays the dad role really well, kind of the everyday. Because I could see maybe a little bit of Phil Hartman in him, too. Yeah, it's big. In that ways. I mean, Phil's personally one of my top three cast members of all time. So I don't think James is on that tier. But I think there's elements of Phil Hartman that I can see in James. Yeah, I think he's a glue, like you said, a glue guy. And I and I feel like especially those if you're listening to the show or you vote for the SNL Hall of Fame, you're probably a big fan. We all know how important the glue people are to an SNL cast. And I think he fits that role very well. Yeah. What do you think, Ashley? James Austin Johnson's trajectory?

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[7:42] I had to laugh because that was actually who I went between. I was going between whether or not I wanted to vote for Bowen Yang or James Austin Johnson. So I am right there with you, Deremy. I agree. I think he's so versatile. You're right. He definitely evokes some of the greats in the past. He has that, Tom, you said charisma for Bowen. I think James Austin Johnson does too. He just has this swagger every time he's in a sketch. And yeah, he can play just a side character or the main character. Or he can do an impression yeah i was really close to voting for him but um ultimately went with bowen obviously but 1000 agree yeah good solid choices i think i could see in a few years we could be looking up and seeing heidi gardner having the hall of fame kind of resume she has talent she's a hall of fame talent i think she needs to get maybe a couple more seasons have some more good sketches she's very good on weekend update i think that's a lot of times where she's shines is coming on weekend update and doing kind of off the wall but sometimes relatable.

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[8:46] Characters heidi so i can definitely see heidi forming a case uh dark horse it's for me and he's been awesome i think he's my mvp of season 49 is andrew just mugs honestly yeah he has and he has his own lane on the show too it's almost like a will forte ish kind of lane like andrew he has a more offbeat kind of sense of humor than a lot of the cast and i think he's all of my My favorite pieces from this current season 49 have been Andrew Dismuke's pieces, quite frankly. So I see maybe Andrew a little bit of a dark horse, but I wouldn't be surprised if he if he continues what he's doing this season. We could be possibly making a case for Andrew Dismuke. So those are a couple of people that I wanted to shout out.

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[9:29] So how this SNL Hall of Fame voting is going to work every season. The voters have up to 15 votes that they can use. Voters can use one vote if they'd like. I don't know why they would, but maybe that's, you know, they're very hardcore and stringent and they only think one person deserves to be in the SNL Hall of Fame each season. Though from looking at the ballot, that would just mean like, I think you're an SNL Grinch or something and you might be shamed if you just come on here and say you're just using one vote. I don't know. So I'm curious, how many votes, Jeremy, are you leaning toward using today? I'm using all 15. All 15. All 15. I think there's some easy slam dunk people to put in, and there's a lot of people who I don't want to knock the SNL family, the SNL fan base, but I'm just like, why are these people still on the ballot? And this is a shame, and I'm going to stick up for it. I'm going to continue to do it. So I got all 15. Jeremy's going to be an advocate. Awesome. All 15, the opposite of a Grinch. Good job, my man. Yes, yes, yes. Ashley, how many votes are you using?

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[10:39] I'm going to copy Deremy again. I'm using all 15. I found it difficult to keep it at 15, to be honest. And there was one that I realized wasn't on the list. And so I had to unfortunately kind of kick somebody off to make sure this person got on my ballot. But yeah, again, a lot of great, so much talent over the years. And I'm going to fight for them too. All right. So both Jeremy and Ashley are using 15. Coming in, I have 13 locks. So what I'm doing right now is I have 13 on my list that I feel are locks for me. But I have two that are open. So I think my goal here, one of my goals here on this roundtable is to be persuaded maybe as to how I'm going to use those final two votes. Votes so 13 i have locked in but you dare me you ashley you could persuade me you can make the case for maybe somebody that i don't have on my list and as to why they should be in the eston hall of fame so if there's anybody that's a grinch it seems like it's uh it might be me more so than ashley and dare me but it's strategic grinch it's it's i'm utilizing strategery on the round.

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[11:52] Well done yes uh so then i'm gonna name the nominees and then we'll get to it just to refresh everybody's memory uh on who the nominees are uh this season on the snl hall of fame uh in the cast member category we have 13 cast members first time nominees rachel dratch will forte taryn killam kate mckinnon tracy morgan lorraine newman and adam sandler returning to the ballot We have Fred Armisen, Vanessa Baer, Ana Gasteyer, and Chris Parnell. And their final time on the ballot.

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[12:32] Maya rudolph and molly shannon so that means if maya and molly don't get voted in in this cycle they're off the ballot so i know jeremy's shaking his head what a shame i can't believe it i know i know it's the will of the people i don't know what to say that's true that's true so for the host category there's 12 on the ballot first time nominees john ham and hathaway and martin short returning to the ballot but not for their final time candace bergen jim carrey buck henry scarlett johansson and paul rudd final time on the ballot for these folks melissa mccarthy john mulaney emma stone and justin timberlake we'll see if emma stone she's been on the ballot since snl hall of fame season one she just became a five-timer here in season 49 we'll see if that That helps bumper up as far as making the SNL Hall of Fame. So I'm curious about that. Musical guests. There's one first-time nominee. That's Pearl Jam. Great episode with Ryan McNeil. I love doing that Pearl Jam episode. Returning to the ballot, we have David Bowie, Dave Grohl, and Lady Gaga.

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[13:43] On the ballot for the final time, Paul McCartney, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, and Prince. So those are the musical guests, which is always a fascinating category to me, musical guests. And we'll probably get into that and your philosophies behind musical guests and the SNL Hall of Fame as well. Writers, there's eight writers on the ballot. First-time writers, John Mulaney. So yes, you heard him as a host. John Mulaney is also on the ballot as a writer. So when we did the draft, I believe it was Matt Ardill who said, let's, you know, John Mulaney is a great host. But he's also known for a writer. Let's put him on the ballot as a writer, too, and just kind of see what happens. So Mulaney's on the ballot for the first time as a writer, as is Julio Torres.

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[14:28] Returning is Jack Handy, Adam McKay, Paul Lappel, Herb Sargent, and Rosie Schuster. Final time on the ballot for Frankenden Davis and Michael O'Donohue. So the writer's always interesting, again, to me. And one producer on the ballot, Dick Ebersole, which Jeremy and I did an episode on. I believe back in season three. Yes. Yeah. So Dick Ebersole on the ballot still here on the SNL Hall of Fame. So with that said, let's reveal those ballots, those votes. So I'm going to start with Deremy to kick things off. Who's the first person, Deremy, you want to talk about who you're voting for? Well, I just think you guys did a great episode on this person. And if there's the biggest lock or just slam dunk for the Hall of Fame, SNL Hall of Fame, it's this person. And let's just get her out the way because it's just so obvious. But Kate McKinnon, I think it's just, we're looking at somebody who.

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[15:32] Is a top 10, maybe top five cast member of all time. And we're almost at 50 year history of the show. And someone, I heard you guys talk about just, just a prodigy and just from day one, you're just like, you know, and for me, I get nervous with that because I'm always like, oh, this person shows so much promise and you start thinking, can they be a great, but there's so many great names in SNL history. You don't want to put that pressure, but Kate McKinnon lived up to deliver and exceeded all these expectations. And when I think of SNL in the decade of the 2010s, she's the first name that comes to my mind. So I figured let's just the number one slam dunk on this list to me, Kate McKinnon. Yeah, the most recent cast member on the ballot. Season 47 was her final season, and she went through the waiting period for the SNL Hall of Fame on the ballot this year. I wonder if there's going to be some sort of recency bias maybe against Kate, because she's so recent, and maybe some people feel like they need to put others ahead of Kate in the Hall of Fame. I mean, that's the only reason that I could think of as to why somebody would not vote for her. Because I agree with you, Jeremy. I think she's a slam dunk. Definitely on my ballot. I assume, Ashley, you were my guest for Kate McKinnon. I assume Kate's on your ballot.

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[16:56] I feel like I could call myself a Kate fan. And my entire podcast should have been thrown away if I didn't put Kate on my ballot. So, yeah, she was actually my number one. I think, Jeremy, you and I are on the same wavelength. We're twins. We're SNL twins.

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[17:09] Yes. So, I was going to come out of the gate strong with Kate, too. And, yeah, like, I was worried about that, too, was, yeah, is she too, quote, unquote, young? Is she still too junior? We were kind of talking about, you know, are we putting people up with, you know, people like Phil Hartman and all these kind of big greats. But I think she is up there already. I think she has proved herself to be a name that will forever echo the halls of Saturday Night Live with the impact that she's had. Yeah, and I can't imagine, you know, don't sleep on her just because we think she's going to sit on this ballot for a little bit. Like, I think she's she deserved it for sure. Yeah, I definitely agree. And I know some people have a philosophy of deciding whether somebody's a first ballot or not. I've always been of the mind, even in sports halls of fame, that if somebody's a Hall of Famer, they're a Hall of Famer. And I don't think there should be tiers as far as first ballot Hall of Fame. And to me, if they're a Hall of Famer, they're a Hall of Famer. And I don't look at them as like, I don't separate the Hall of Fame into tiers like that. Some people do. I think Kate's, even if somebody does separate into tiers, I think Kate's a quote-unquote first ballot Hall of Famer, even if somebody is strict like that. To me, she's almost comfortably in the top 10 all-time cast members.

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[18:28] For me and i hope i hope as the years go along that people really have an appreciation for what she did on the show i know there were a lot of maybe hardcore snl fans toward the end of her tenure who were like oh we need some new blood i'm kind of sick of kate and that's unfortunate because we didn't know how good we had it with kate honestly apparently some people didn't know because she's an all-timers all-timer so that's just kind of where i stand so jeremy i'm curious i don't know if we've talked about this do you separate halls of fame in general into like Like, if somebody's a first ballot, if somebody's not? No, I don't have, like, the tier list. Like, I don't do, like, oh, you're on tier one. But there are in SNL Hall of Fame or in Sports Hall of Fame, there are names that are, like, you can just say their name and there's, like, enough said. And, like, you know, you stand up and you sit down. And there's some Hall of Famers where you have to have a discussion more and, you know, talk about it and you might have some debate. And I understand there's, like, both. But once they're in, there's no separation. You're a Hall of Famer. But there's some where it's like, you know, in the NFL, if I say Tom Brady, and if someone goes, really, I'm not sure about him, I'd be like, what's wrong with you? And, you know, Kate McKinnon's like on that level.

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[19:40] It's like if someone's like, I don't know. I'd be like, really? You don't know about Kate McKinnon? Like, it's going to be a long day. So it's like Kate McKinnon's just, you just got to say her name, and then you sit back down. Exactly. No, I'm with you. I'm going to suck up to Ashley here and say Kate McKinnon's like Tim Duncan. In the nba like tim duncan ashley's his first fans oh okay nice tim tim duncan is like you say tim duncan it's like oh he's like a top 10 all-time great nba player like for sure hall of fame like he's on that first tier of hall of famer so to me kate mckinnon's like a tim duncan yeah like it's just a no-brainer like that absolutely and ashley like did a raise the roof there so i'm on her good side i i think my love for saturday night live may be tied with my love for the san antonio spurs it's really close i'm quite a fan girl when it comes to both so yeah tom could not have picked a better reference for me exactly and i'm jealous you get to follow victor wimpy llama same year how many years she's so lucky with the spurs, I was really happy that draft day, for sure. Oh, I bet. So, Deremy, Kate McKinnon, all three of us have Kate McKinnon on our ballots. Ashley, I want to go to you. Who do you want to start with?

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[20:56] The next person I had right after Kate McKinnon on my list that I want to put on my ballot is Maya Rudolph.

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[21:03] Again, I think she's another name. You say her name and it's no question. Profession the the breadth and the depth of talent that she had while on that show i i think was unmatched and i don't think there's been anyone like maya since on the show that's been able to kind of hold the candle to what she was able to do um i mean vocally she could do any of the you know finger impressions and and give us either you know song parodies um but she could also just really own and commit to being silly and ridiculous um but comes to mind is the sketch that she did with kristin wig where they're the prize girls on the on the game show and kate's you know driving around in the golf cart and they're just acting ridiculous and there's a lot of breaking and again i'm sure lauren wasn't too pleased with it but you could get these really serious impressions like beyonce out of maya but then also these just ridiculous ditzy dumb you you know, physical comedy, throw yourself type of sketches from her. And I think she's definitely, you know, she belongs in this hall of fame. Yeah. Well said. I think we've talked a little bit about Maya. Jeremy, is this the, one of the ones you've been upset about over the last few seasons? Yes, Ashley. I don't know what it is. We're on the same page. I'm going to say this. I think Maya Rudolph is the most.

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[22:26] Under appreciated underrated cast member in the history of snl and i think it's crazy i to me i think she's top 10 but at most i'll give someone top 15 like cast member of all time um i think and maybe that's like a people have that sexist view could we say glue guy so we think of just like phil hartman dan akroyd no to me it's a glue person because my rudolph I think maybe the only glue person I think of more than her is a Phil Hartman, in my opinion. I just think, like what Ashley said, the versatility, what she was able to do, how unique she was, where before or since there's not a talent that Saturday Night Live has seen like her. And I think it's a travesty that she's been on this ballot for so long. So absolutely Maya Rudolph. off.

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[23:17] Jeremy, you could partly blame me for some of that because I have been one of those people that's a little on the fence about Maya. And I know that's one of the things that you and I probably disagree about the most. Absolutely. As far as us in the Hall of Fame. And Ashley wants to throw a tomato at me right now, I think. And I love Maya. I love Maya.

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[23:37] I'll watch anything that she pops up. If she's on a podcast, she was just on Dax Shepard's podcast. And I made sure that moved up in the queue. you like i wanted to listen to maya on dax's podcast like i absolutely love maya and i landed on why i was on the fence about it in the beginning and i talked this over we did actually a relitigation episode with rebecca north she came on and advocated for maya and i think for me i think maya was in the wrong era i think the the type of humor that was around when maya was on the cast probably in the early 2000s. I don't think it really fit the skill set that she had. I think she was honestly better than a lot of the material that was on the show around that time. I think if she was on the show early 90s, or even if she got to be more part of the cast in the other Golden Era from about 2007, I know she overlapped a little bit, but I would have liked to see her move on into like 2012 and you know i think she left the cast a little too soon before it really gelled and blossomed so i just think a lot of the material a lot of this the humor in the early 2000s.

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[24:49] I always felt like it was a little edgelordy it was just weird all around like we were in a weird time in the country and just in comedy in general and i think the humor was just kind of off in the early 2000s and i didn't and i think that that didn't cater to to what made maya truly great I always love watching her on screen, but there was always something missing, but I think I landed on that it wasn't her fault. Really?

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[25:15] You know, what gets me is like a lot and not this isn't at you, Thomas, but a lot of people look at the ladies of that era with Maya as like really breaking through the boys club of Saturday Night Live. And Maya was a big part of that.

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[25:28] And the other women to me get talked about so much more than her when I think she was the best of those ladies who broke through, which is always kind of weird and conflicting for me where it's like there was great women on SNL before. But you know they had to fight that boys club and then it's like that's the era where it's like oh like the ladies broke through but then they leave maybe like one of the biggest pieces or the biggest piece off that list when we're talking about we give amy polar love and everybody like we don't give maya rudolph so it always kind of confuses me yeah i can agree with that what do you think about that ashley oh gosh yeah i can't imagine anybody being on the fence about maya rudolph um i think you saw my jaw hit the floor um because yeah it was oh yeah we talked you know jeremy.

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[26:13] You talked about the glue person i think she could have been in every sketch and she held it together she always brought something to it even if she wasn't the star of that sketch or wasn't bringing her main like impressions um to it and again i know on my kate podcast i talked about you know to me when i think of somebody in the hall of fame for saturday night live is you know does their talent take them beyond the show and again look at her i mean she's still making amazing stuff and i i do i see where you're coming from tom a little bit when you're talking about um you know it not being her fault i can see that i think had she stayed and gotten to do a little bit more with like tina fey and annie puller she was like kind of in this weird she She wasn't on too long before they left.

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[26:59] But then kind of also left herself not long after like Kristen wig and stuff was there, you know, only overlapped a little bit with those. I think she was kind of a little bit in between where it really would have catapulted her to a little bit more star power. Had she had a little bit, you know, better chemistry to meld with, but I loved her every second she was on the show. I loved every sketch that she was in. Um, huge fan of her impressions, of course, who I thought she was really good at it.

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[27:32] Yeah, I'm trying to like, I'm a lawyer in my day job and I'm totally failing right now because I'm like, how do I advocate and convince Tom to put Maya on this ballot? Well, I will say that she's one of my locks. So Maya's on my ballot as a lock. So and I think I think she's going to get in this time around. But I had to have a sort of epiphany as to why I didn't 100 percent connect with Maya like everybody else. And it was like a goodwill hunting thing. I had to look at Maya and say, it's not your fault. And then she's in the SNL Hall of Fame as far as I'm concerned. So I'm writing my previous wrong and putting her as a lock on my ballot. And I think it's going to happen for her. I think she's going to get in this time around. That's just my gut feeling. I hope so. Yeah, I think you'll be fine. I will withdraw my objection. I apologize, Tyler. I've apologized. I've done all of, I think, the right thing here and admitted my error. And arrived at a proper conclusion, I think. So Maya Rudolph is on all three of our ballots here on the SNL Hall of Fame. I'm curious. I'll stick with you, Ashley. I'm curious as to who you want to talk about next. So this is a name that I am shocked is still on the ballot.

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[28:51] That she hasn't been voted into the Hall of Fame yet. I got to go with Molly Shannon. Yeah, I think I talked a little bit on on my episode about, you know, what really made me fall in love with Saturday Night Live. And again, I think, you know, there's a few other names from her era that are on my ballot, too, that I won't bring up yet. But again.

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[29:12] I mean, Mary Catherine Gallagher, just how can you not put Mary Catherine Gallagher in the Hall of Fame? She's a superstar. It's literally on her name. Well said. Yeah, she's on my ballot. So Molly Shannon is one of those. And similar to Maya Rudolph, this is her last year on the ballot. So if she doesn't get in, she's just off the ballot.

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[29:33] So I have her as a lock. So that's one of my other locks. Um daramie uh molly shannon uh what are you what's your feeling on molly oh absolutely a lock um and and i agree with you guys i agree with ashley like she should have she should have been in i'm always going to give love for those cast members and writers who bridge a gap at a really tough time in snl history when i know like we all know the stuff like every year saturday night dead and blah blah blah and it's like okay but there's certain points in the show's history where it was really at a shaky point and on the rocks and she came midway through that awful 94 95 season and stayed on one of the few people who stayed on and really helped bring in a new transition with that fall of 95 96 cast and just the different characters the way she just jumped into the bazaar and didn't hold back and could you know have mary katherine gallagher but just really brought such a weird uncomfortable character to the mainstream and she was able to do that time and time again on this show uh definitely a hall of famer for.

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[30:44] Yeah that's both of you said everything i think especially like she i think mary catherine gallagher on the snn they did a character count and i think mary catherine gallagher finished top five i want to say and that that's that's molly shannon's work her physicality is something.

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[31:01] That i think everybody will always mention probably to her detriment like you watch some of those sketches back and she probably will admit like yeah she could have heard like she probably shouldn't have done that necessarily like i bet the producers on the show and writers and stuff like what are you doing like you don't have to like totally throw yourself through this table or wall or so i think she did a little damage to her body but she sacrificed herself for the good of the show and for our entertainment and she's just so wonderful and she has a really great memoir called hello molly uh i don't know if you have ever if you have a chance to read it i don't you need to pick that up Ashley if you haven't it's so good it's in my it's in my to read list right now for sure I admit I got a little bit sidetracked by some other kind of book talk recommendations that I very cliche got into but it is downloaded it is in my queue I've been dying to read it and yeah yeah you were talking about her physicality and I think what I loved about her too is we haven't seen a female comedian do physical comedy to the extreme like chris farley did you know when i think of extreme physical physical comedy to their actual physical real detriment you know obviously um you know chris farley would chug you know i don't even know how much like caffeine or espressos to get into that you know really hyper mindset in addition to you.

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[32:31] Know, throwing himself through walls and tables.

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[32:34] I loved that a female comedian would do that. And it was, I can be just as funny as the men who do this. And it's not improper. It's not inappropriate.

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[32:43] She nailed it. I think it worked for her. And you're right. She did have so many quirky characters that I feel like other comedians who came after her tried to do, you know, they tried to bring that kind of weird and unique humor, but it didn't really land, or at least I didn't really get it. First person that comes to mind is Kyle Mooney. I apologize to Kyle Mooney fans, but he was just somebody that I couldn't really understand.

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[33:11] I applauded his attempt and because, you know, comedy is so subjective and there's something out there for everybody. But I think Molly was that weird kind of quirky as a weird, quirky girl, awkward, you know, growing up, I was like, Oh, I feel seen like people can laugh with her and not at her. And that was really, really awesome to see. Do we have a Kristen Wiig or Kate McKinnon without Molly Shannon? Yeah, she's a trailblazer. Yeah, exactly.

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[33:42] And I'm looking at Molly's trajectory as far as voting, and she started off at 34% after season one, and she's climbed to 47, 54, and then 57 last time around. So she just needs that last kind of push to get into the Hall of Fame. And with Maya, she started off at 47, and then she's been at 57, 58, and 58 the last few times. So I think both Molly and Maya both hovering around like the 57 to 58 percent of the vote mark. This is their last time. I think Molly's going to get into that's my gut feeling as well. I think the fact that I think voters will look at it and say that Molly and both Molly and Maya deserve it. And they've been on the cusp. They've been so close. And again, I blame myself for Maya. I've voted for Molly in the past. So I'm off the hook as far as Molly goes. But I would love to see both of them get into the SNL Hall of Fame. So we've had agreements on Kate McKinnon, Maya Rudolph, and Molly Shannon, three great cast members. Jeremy, I'm wondering who you have as far as non-cast members.

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[34:53] Yeah, that's actually where I was going to go next because I'm like, you know what, let's just get weird on this roundtable. Let's get weird. Let's get weird. and I'm gonna go with this person and I'll be honest Thomas and, you know have listened to snl hall of fame since season one and usually when i'm listening the the conversation's great and you kind of lean me either way i'm thinking either where i'm like yeah they're hall of famer they're already just you're proving that or i don't think so and you're kind of going that way never have i been more conflicted listening than to the michael o'donohue episode where you had brad and gary on and i'm driving around and i'm going yeah and then right away. Then the next, someone makes a point and I go, no, he's not a hall of famer. Then I'm like, but yeah, he is. And I was just back and forth, like, and I'm like, I really don't know.

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[35:40] And so I thought about it a lot, but I I'm going to vote them in. Okay. And I can understand if people don't, but I'm going to go there because of when the show started and, you know, because we've been making sports references, I'm going to keep that train going. You know, the dynasty docu-series just happened with the Patriots. And of course when you look at the Patriots dynasty there's a lot of players coaches, administrators who are a part of it but the big three like headed leadership Robert Kraft Bill Belichick, Tom Brady. When you look at the first year SNL the three headed leadership it was Lorne Chevy Chase and Michael O'Donohue and Michael really did if you listen to a lot of people that original those first five years You know, Saturday Night Live brought an edge. It was cool. It was hip. It was something that TV in the 70s hadn't seen yet. And who really helped to bring that sensibility was Michael O'Donoghue. And he's also done things, especially in the early 80s, that really could hurt the show. So I understand the negative, but I feel like his positives do outweigh the negatives, which is why I kind of went with he should be voted on. And he was a part of that original crew and I feel like everyone who was a part of the first season in my opinion should Be in the Hall of Fame just because you were a part of the foundation and you started this.

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[37:05] Huge franchise that will stay in pop culture forever, no matter how long the show is on or when it goes off. So I vote for Michael O'Donohue. It's interesting that you bring up O'Donohue because I've, I put him on and then took him off. Like I alternated just so many over the last few days. I was like, nah, I don't know Don Hugh. And then I thought, and then I would think about what Brad and Gary said. I'm like, well, those are good points. I'll put them on. And then I took him off again. As of right now, Now he's not one of my 13 locks and he was one of the ones where I could be persuaded for him to end up on my final ballot. He went actually, I think Brad and Gary did a really great job of advocating for Michael O'Donohue because he went from 11% of the vote after season three to barely, like barely staying on the ballot. He got 35% last year. So that was quite the jump for Michael O'Donohue. I have, I don't know. It's just some, I don't know if it's just his, his persona or something like the, the, the edgy bordering on mean material that he possibly wrote that sometimes rubs me the wrong way. But, but I, I, I definitely grant like how important he was, uh, to the show. Uh, Ashley, it was Michael O'Donoghue, somebody that you've been maybe considering, uh.

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[38:20] He is not on my ballot actually. And yeah, it was one of those things where I totally agree with you, Jeremy. He, I mean, he was part of that first season and I, I do agree with your statement that anyone from that first season because of what they created and what we have now is because of them. Um, but again, I wasn't a huge fan of, of his, some of his sketches were, I don't know, maybe it's just cause they didn't age well looking back at them. Um, but I do have a few writers on my ballot for sure. Um, and he just didn't land in one of my top favorites. Um, so. Yeah. He, uh, looking at his sketches, like, so this will be have like the, the good and the bad of it. Like he wrote Godfather therapy with, uh, Belushi Belushi, which was awesome. He wrote the last voyage of the starship enterprise, which I think is one of the better sketches of those early five seasons. Absolutely. Both of those. Yeah. Yeah, those are great. Norman Bates' School of Motel Management was awesome.

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[39:18] I even liked the, he had a weird concept of the attack of the atomic lobsters that was like, I think O'Donohue's sense of humor kind of reigned in a little bit. Then like you have things like the Needle, the Needles Impressionist, where he just said like, here's my impression of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir with needles stuck in their eyes. And he would just like yell he would like mind putting needles in his eyes and just yell so it's just kind of interesting uh but again Jeremy he's not like totally off my ballot it's just something that I have to like keep thinking about well don't get me wrong like I so personally I agree with you guys like there's a lot of things that I'm like uh it doesn't I mean there's some sketches he wrote that hits me it's a lot that don't but I have to take myself out of it and look back on what, for our parents' generation, what TV was like in 1975.

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[40:14] And we look at it like, we look at the late 60s into the 70s, music and movies were ahead of the game, where they reflected what society was doing. TV was dead last. And I think about what really changed TV. I think of, number one, like Norman Lear and his sitcoms, and then, number two, like when Saturday Night Live premiered. So like him doing like the needles in the eye, like it's not, I don't laugh at it, but like at that point, TV was so far behind. That was just bizarre to see on television where you're used to seeing, you know.

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[40:47] Green Acres and Mr. Ed, you know, not that long before. And that was like, that's what you got. And then even like in late night, it was Johnny Carson.

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[40:55] So then it's like, you're getting this and just this sensibility. That's just, whoa, like the counterculture is taking over NBC for an hour and a half on Saturday nights. Like it was very different for that generation, which is why I had to take myself and my personal taste out of it and look like that was different for that time. Totally no i agree i mean that's that's why he's still kind of like i might be persuaded honestly he might end up on my list of 15 i'm trying i'm trying i know yeah you're very persuasive you do that on our other pod too on pop culture five you always kind of like get me on your side yeah so and michael donahue was the first person to appear on camera on snl like just a little like historical fun fact the first person that we see on snl it was michael o'donohue and that wolverine sketch so but Jeremy has Michael O'Donohue Ashley's probably a no I'm a maybe at this point Ashley you said that you had a writer or a couple writers I'm curious if you want to reveal one of those yeah so I have four writers actually um and I I gotta go with my girl Paula Pell brilliant just absolute brilliance like she is my comedy um I if I saw her on the street I might might die just like i would next to kate and tina fey but i think because we got paula pell like in the era of tina fey to such strong writers at the same time we got such great stuff out of them.

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[42:25] Um and again i keep repeating myself but what they've been able to do beyond the show as well, you know like conan o'brien when he was on and what he's been able to do afterwards because he had such talent i think paul is the same way and she kind of stays in the you know she doesn't really take that limelight that I feel like she deserves she's kind of I think happy to be a writer and not necessarily take those starring roles but when she does you know come in and do even just like a supporting actress I sign me up I'm gonna see it every single day any chance I get to see Paula Pell and again I think what she was able to do with around that time with Tina was pushing again we talked about Jeremy you said um breaking the boys club not just for the the comedians we saw on TV, but I think that's what Paula and Tina were doing in the writers room was they were trying to break up that boys club, and again say women are funny too and we can be silly and ridiculous and I think even bringing in the.

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[43:21] You know, the topical humor of calling stuff out and making it funny, though, like bringing up issues in a way that made everybody laugh instead of making them uncomfortable. So we could talk about it and kind of understand it and see it. And I think she was such a trailblazer for it. Yeah, she was one of the minds behind some of the great recurring sketches of that era. She was she was behind the cheerleaders and other just really big recurring sketches like that. She was like you could you definitely felt her voice in that era. And it meshed well with, like you said, Will Ferrell, Sherry O'Terry, and all of those. And she has Girls 5, Ebba. That's kind of like the thing that she's involved with right now. Paula Pell. Deremy, I'm curious before I kind of – because I have a little situation here with Paula Pell and another writer that I might want to hash out. But, Deremy, I want to get your thoughts on Paula Pell. Oh, she's on my list. That's a slam dunk.

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[44:17] Should have been in for a writer. She's the first ballot. Hall of Famer in my opinion um I talked about you know with Molly Shannon those who helped really re like revigorate and save the show in like the fall of 95 we talk about the people on screen you always give credit to those behind the camera and like the writers Paula Pell's one of those people and you mentioned I mean from like the cheerleaders to Debbie Downer to Justin Timberlake in the omelette ville like so that's like over different years she's doing these memorable characters and like writing these great sketches um and just someone you know that lauren trusted you know like i think ashley great point like how huge was it for when tina fey became the first female head writer that having a paula pell there like i'm sure that was like a big help and i just think she's getting this just due now because like in the public eyes because of girls five ever but like.

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[45:16] Maybe it's by design. I know she was behind the scenes, but to me, she's one of those writers who should have always been talked about up there with a Smigel, a Jack Handy, all those people. She's that great. She's a slam dunk for me. me yeah it seems like if you ask somebody who worked at snl around that time they would tell you that paula pell was probably the funniest person yeah in the building so that's kind of the that's the reputation that she had uh and by the way if you listen to wtf with mark maron paula pell was a recent guest yes on and she was great she's hilarious she's so likable love paula pell that was a really great interview she did with mark maron um paul is not a lock on my list and she's honestly one like that I'm not discounting and I wanted to hash it out because I don't know I have another writer that might be a little I'm gonna take controversial but a lot of people might tell me might urge me to put Paula Pell in ahead of him for many reasons I want to hash out as to whether I should swap out Paula Pell for this person or if I should add Paula Pell to my list and keep this person so i want to kind of dive into i have julio torres.

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[46:25] On on my list and i and i didn't think that i didn't think that was i was gonna feel that way heading into the season but then i started looking at the sketches that he wrote and his unique voice and i know the one limiting factor is he was only on the show for he was only a writer on the show for like three seasons but some of the stuff that julio did i mean he he was behind uh papyrus which we saw a second installment papyrus 2 now the actress with emma stone he uh he also wrote wells for boys which was another wonderful emma stone pre-tape he wrote a lot of really great political things he had the melania moments his so you julio had just like such a clever unique voice at that time of the show i think he really stood out he had a really great one with With Lin-Manuel Miranda.

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[47:18] Where Lin-Manuel Miranda played a character. That was like. He was in Montana or North Dakota or something. And he called his mom. Because he was an immigrant that called his mom. And was describing like how his life was. So like. Julio Torres' voice was just so unique. And to me he was almost like a comet. That came through SNL. And he made the show so great. But he just wasn't there. For a long time. Where somebody like Paula Pell was. Was and so i want i was wondering about like the merits of of julio torres in that should i i don't know ashley like should i move another rider a more of a legacy rider in front of him or like what do you what do you think about julio's contributions and then even like compared to somebody like paul appell.

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[48:06] Yeah, I mean, and not to discount Julio Torres. Yeah, I loved his sketches. I thought they were hilarious. And I don't want to say that somebody doesn't deserve to be on a ballot just because they weren't on Saturday Night Live for I don't think there's a requisite amount of time. I think we could, you know, vote somebody in who was in for one season. Obviously, we've got some hosts on the ballot that aren't necessarily in the five timers club and things like that. But I think to me, the difference between if we're going to put Julio and Paula together is not just not that Paula was legacy because she was on for so long, but because of what her sketches did to, you know, move the show. Like Jeremy said, you know, taking it out of an era like she came in, I think, right at the right time to kind of rescue a drowning show and then continue to evolve it and stay relevant and kind of help us, you know, continue to keep SNL moving with the times.

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[49:01] Whereas you know i mean i get papyrus and they just did you know part two a couple weeks ago is just genius um i think it should be nominated for like an emmy for a short or something but um yeah given the two i really think paula um i mean is julio again i hate i hate to do this but this isn't his last year on the ballot correct no and you're right no this is his first year actually so i mean that that plays a role yeah that plays a role too in the thought process i think yeah yeah so i i think you got to go with paula i really do i think and again julio he's also someone who continues to write um and doing great things for other shows you know that we still watch today and so definitely not to discount his humor what what he did um his sketches.

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[49:50] But i'm biased i'm like i said i would fangirl over paula pell in the street so So yeah, you know where I stand. Yeah, I think Jeremy, the thing about Julio to me was like his batting average, putting in sports terms, like his batting average was just so high that it was hard for me to discount. He did so much in such a little time, like almost everything that he did was a hit for me. And to me, that plays a big role. Like, is it quantity or even if he was only on the show for three seasons, but his batting average is super high? Like, how do you weigh stuff like that? No, it's hard. I feel like you could have both on there, and I think that would solve it, but if you have to choose.

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[50:31] Between one or the other, I would put Paula just because.

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[50:35] A little bit of the longevity and what she did over different eras. So her batting average was, you know, it, you know, if you have someone who hit three 50 for three seasons and someone who hit three 25 for, you know, 15 seasons, like it's like, you know, I'm gonna go with that three 25 for 15 over three 50 for the three. So it's like, I have to weigh it like that. I'm probably gonna, you gotta, it's hard because like my, The guy who I look at is either, I go back and forth between first or second greatest cast members, Eddie Murphy. And he wasn't on very long, but what he did was amazing. So I hear you. It's tough. And I think with Julio bringing that different sensibility to a show and really bringing that diversity in a different mind, that's a great factor for him. But Paula did that too. Yeah. So it's like, it's, it's just hard. Like if you have to pick one or the other, I would go with Paula, but it's a tough choice. Yeah. So I think all of that weighs into my thought process. I think, I think.

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[51:40] I think it either come down for me to Julio or Paula, or you're right. I could, I could just put both of them on. I might have room to do that. It's all, I mean, nothing's set in stone right now. I just wanted to hash that out. Cause I think it's interesting. And Julio actually has a better case than I thought even like on the surface, you're like, okay, Julio Torres, like, you know, memorable, talented rider. But then you start looking at his work and it was like, oh my gosh, he might actually have a real case here. Like more so than I thought. So, uh, so I just wanted to hash that out. And I thought that was the perfect time to do it. But Paula Pell is one of the other ones where I was like, man, I love Paula Pell. And I was just considering that. So, yeah, thanks for – see, here, we're all learning something. And we're all kind of like – or at least I'm like kind of getting my thought process in order and maybe swayed a certain way. So, yeah, Deremy, I wonder what is next on your list.

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[52:29] Another crime I'm trying to justify or undo on the SNL Hall of Fame. You came with anger, everybody. Deremy's just like – I'm just like, jeez. here we go i brought this per i think i was on the season three round table before and i nominated this person then and they're still on here but we're talking about you know because ashley you just brought up like host and we're talking about the og five-timer guy he was on 10 times in the first five years he was the person who suggested doing recurring sketches like to that to the original like cast like hey you should do that samurai thing again john like come on i mean it's classic when they did the samurai and belushi like by accident cuts him on the forehead and they're all wearing like the bandage you got to have buck henry on here the og the five timers club is such a known thing in the snl like pantheon and how do we not have the og of the five timers club in the snl hall of fame he should be a first ballot guy because he's one of those people.

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[53:37] I think of him and Steve Martin, where people to this day get confused and say they were part of the original cast. Because that's how much they are a staple of that show. And so I'm just like, outside of maybe Steve Martin, to me there's no more important host than Buck Henry. So it's like, how is he not in the Hall of Fame yet? I don't know. I don't get it. But I'm going to do it again.

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[54:04] Nominate and bring up buck henry for the snl hall of fame let's hopefully we get it right this time people yeah he's on he's a lock on my list too and and i voted for him in the past i think he's just so important to the show he's a 10 timer yeah but it's not just the quantity of like he he was solid like you watch every single one of his hosting gigs there's a reason why they asked him twice a year to come back and he always hosted the finale and it was just like i think the cast and the crew and the producers it was just like they knew they were in good hands with buck henry and they could throw stuff at him and he would he would be great in it he could he could lead a sketch he can just find like a role to kind of hang back and just be a supporting player i think buck just in synonymous with the show i mean he wrote the graduate uh and he was a great writer but people know him for snl like i think that's just as far as on screen especially like he they know him as like the guy who used to host SNL a bunch. And I think, yeah, I think Buck Henry needs to get in. So he's for sure on my list. I don't know how you feel about Buck Henry, Ashley, if we have to like persuade you or where do you stand on this?

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[55:15] I don't, it wasn't a matter of not being persuaded that he deserved to be on it. I think just because I, like I said, at the beginning of this, I had such a hard time whittling my list down to my 15 votes. And that I, you know, have a little bit, you know, my bias is going to show through with my votes of, you know, kind of the more...

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[55:37] Relatively recent um you know people i only have three hosts on my list actually, because again i had such a really hard time with it so i i had to give that spot to somebody else and i think it was kind of me selfishly hoping that somebody else like like you guys would push him through because i agree he believes or excuse me i agree that he deserves to be in the hall of fame um i'm not against it i don't think you have to convince me that he deserves it but you may have to convince me to take somebody else off my list if i'm going to put him on mine so a lot of it's like an era maybe kind of thing like uh buck henry's a more old timer maybe and so so so we're looking at like an era that more so like resonated with you possibly i will say this buck henry was on the ballot for the first time after season three so this is not his final year he's been.

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[56:32] On twice before he went from 23 after season three to 48 so he made quite the jump so i think uh this being his third time on the ballot i wouldn't be surprised uh i would be a little surprised if he got in but i but i think he's gonna be one of those where it's like he's inching toward there so you have another couple seasons after this ashley to to write this wrong that might be made so yeah so this isn't totally the last chance for buck henry and i think that was the thing is you know there's so many greats from that original era that are in the hall of fame already that it was kind of a shock that he isn't on that list um because i mean like how do we get anywhere with it we are today without jane curtain gilda radner you know these ogs um that again like derry said started the show um they made us know what it is and yeah you're right.

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[57:26] Literally you know wrote one of the greatest films of all time you know and then we're like oh no but his his work on snl don't worry about um you know the graduate um thing about snl so you're right i think next year i'll have an updated ballot okay okay so so we'll check back in next year i think if buck henry was more famous just in general in pop culture he would probably get in but he's He's just like a writer, a movie writer. So he just kind of like is under the radar. But I think if he was a little more famous, like Steve Martin or something like that, then I think Buck Henry would be in. So we'll see. I'm curious to see where Buck Henry lands this year. What host do you have, Ashley? So I actually, yeah, kind of going like a little bit more to an older era, I put Martin Short instead of Buck Henry as my vote for one of my hosts. Because, again, he's somebody else that I find synonymous with SNL.

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[58:26] And, again, just that silly, quirky... You know, doesn't apologize for how he is or who he is or his comedy or anything. And even to this day, I mean, we saw him, you know, a couple of weeks ago with, with Kristen Wiggs episode and just still making, he made Lauren break. I mean, come on, like how, how epic is that when you make Lauren Michaels laugh at a sketch? I think that shows how great and how funny he actually is. Every time he's on, I get so happy.

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[58:56] I think because of what he's been able to do, the fact that, yeah, he keeps coming back. As well we keep inviting him back no matter what um i mean they brought him back for kristen wig they brought him back for uh steve martin he's just somebody again it wasn't just a glue person but could you know steal the scene and steal the sketch no matter what he was in yeah just always a wildly entertaining person to watch martin short and he he hosted two all-time classic christmas episodes he has two of the better monologues i've ever seen i'm still teetering though i'm kind of on the fence he's not a lock for me but he's one of those where i just like kind of wanted to wait and see what other people said and i'll do some more thinking on so i didn't totally discount martin short he's in that michael o'donoghue paul appell range where i'm just like i don't know not not a lock for me but i want to see somebody make the case uh jeremy where do you stand on martin short he's a new on my list i don't i don't have him on mine um i think there There is no, in my lifetime, there's no more guaranteed lock to make a person laugh. If I have to pick someone in the world to save my life, like, I dare me, you can only survive if you pick someone to make me laugh.

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[1:00:10] I'm Martin Shorts, like, he's on my Mount Rushmore, probably like number one. Like, he's just that naturally funny. Like, he's like the ultimate talk show person. and it makes sense he's the ultimate person to kind of fill in on SNL and to be there and to come on but I just don't I know he was on for the cast for that season that transition that Steinbrenner year I just still don't.

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[1:00:34] When I think of Martin Short, I don't think of SNL with him. I know that's a part of his history, but I'm going to go to movies. I'm going to go to his talk show appearances. I'm going to go to other things. I'm not his, you know, not his relationship with Steve Martin. I'm not going to go to SNL. And I think that's why. But I still do believe like he's hilarious and he's funny. And I'm always glad when I see him there. But I don't think of him like, oh, as a host or as even a cast member. Like yeah he's one of those you know for our podcast essential people so that's why i don't have him on my list but i could be persuaded to like for sure but he's off mine he had more of a case after i after i re-watched some of his at least a couple of his episodes he had he had the episode there was one in the late 90s that was classic though his episode in 2012 when paul mccartney was the musical guest that's like a stone cold classic episode to me as well and his His monologues there were great. So when I watched specifically even those two episodes, I'm like, all right, yeah.

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[1:01:35] I mean, he put in two amazing performances here. One thing that's interesting about him, too, is he has another, you know, in the 80s, he hosted with Chevy Chase and Steve Martin. And then he also co-hosted with Steve Martin. So some of his hosting gigs have been with other people as well where Martin wasn't totally featured. So I could see both sides. That's why I am kind of like he's still up in the air for me. But anything to add on that, Ashley?

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[1:02:05] I think I'm going to steal your Maya Rudolph explanation. And I think Martin Short was, I think, the victim of being a cast member on a time where maybe his type of comedy or whatever the reason didn't mesh with everything else going on. And you're right, he wasn't on very long and he ended up doing much bigger things, after Saturday Night Live. But I think...

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[1:02:29] The reason Lorne kept bringing him back was because he understood that maybe, the time that he was a cast member, maybe not have been the best time to have him shine, but recognizing his talent, his comedy, what he's able to do.

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[1:02:45] And I think that's why I would vote for him as a host, as opposed to a cast member is you're right. Every time he came back to host, whether it was by himself or, or with, you know, the three amigos, I just, Just, it makes me wish that he would have been on. And sometimes it makes me forget that he wasn't on longer than he was.

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[1:03:05] Because my brain has clicked and associated him so much with Saturday Night Live. And I think, too, just his association with all the other greats on SNL, I think, helped bring him along a little bit to that star power. But I think even without them, he can stand on his own. So and i should say too like uh for snl hall of fame purposes and how how it was set up a few years ago um we there are the categories technically so martin short isn't eligible as a cast member because he was only on for the one season that's why he's on host but it's up to each individual uh voter and it's just to what their criteria is so if they want to count his cat time as a cast member that's up to the voter uh technically it's just kind of his host hosting gigs that we're looking at, but that's interesting as far as... This is why we do these things, is kind of peek into the criteria of a certain individual. Like Jeremy brought up, Martin Short made his mark elsewhere other than SNL. And so there's all sorts of different factors, but I can definitely see Martin Short. I'm curious. This is his first year on the ballot, so I'm curious to see how voters feel about him. So this will definitely be interesting. Jeremy, I want to go back to you for your next pick. I'm gonna go back to another wrong.

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[1:04:20] I've been trying to write it here, and it's the first episode I ever did on SNL Hall of Fame with you, Thomas. And I know I'm still going to use this vote here. I got to go with Dick Ebersole, the man who created Saturday Night Live and who brought Lorne Michaels in as the executive producer and was really like he got hired to create a show for the film on Saturday nights. He picked Lorne Michaels, and they really together co-created Saturday Night Live. That right there is huge. But then after the first five years when Lorne and the rest of the cast, all those original people left, and they hired Gene Domanian in season six as a nightmare. They're looking at canceling the show. They fired Gene Domanian. What do they do? They bring in Dick Ebersole to run it, and he has one of the most important conversations in SNL history. He talks to Lorne because he knew no one would help him from the past if Lorne didn't give it its blessing. Lorne gives it the blessing.

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[1:05:24] Dick Ebersole sees the – he fires everybody, but he keeps Eddie Murphy, Joe Piscopo, Barry Blaustein, David Sheffield. And Blaustein and Sheffield as writers with Eddie Murphy save the show. So that show keeps going you know for the early early into the mid 80s because of what dick ebershaw did and you know he saw the talent in eddie murphy he saw that bright shining star gene domanian had eddie murphy on the side not really doing anything he's like we have this rising comedic the megastar we're going to pump him out and i mean we got some epic sketches some all-time great performances because of that. And where would we be? We wouldn't be doing this roundtable, technically, without Dick Ebersole.

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[1:06:13] So the fact that he's still on there, I'm going to go advocate for him because I think it's shame on the SNL voters that we wouldn't be having this talk if it wasn't for Dick Ebersole, and you're not going to put him in the Hall of Fame. So I've got to give it to Dick Ebersole. Yeah, Dick Ebersole, I mean, he's somebody who helped create the show along with Lauren. He helped save the show so i think he's on my list so he's one of the ones where i just he's he's a lock on my list i think ebersole should be he gets lost in the shuffle because everybody thinks of lauren as like the the guy which he is i mean this is lauren you know ultimately his show but dick ebersole like right right there alongside him at the beginning and and i mean he picked lauren like he could have picked somebody else yeah you're right well it was dick ebersole who yeah yeah so yeah great points i'm with it uh ashley dick ebersole what say you oh ditto yes gavel struck 100 percent um we don't exist all the people we've been talking about don't exist without dick ebersole another one of those i mean.

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[1:07:18] Left bug henry off while i believe he deserves to be in it dick ebersole i would not leave off um because yeah he's gotta go gotta go on the list sorry yes yes so we're all bonding here all three of us have dick ebersole for sure i think just his name like that again the name factor i think hurts dick ebersole and uh i i just gobble up snl uh books and memoirs and stuff and dick Dick Ebersole had a really great one that both Jeremy and I referenced quite a bit when we did the episode as well. So you want to learn a lot about Dick Ebersole's career. Fascinating career. Dick Ebersole is honestly like the Forrest Gump of TV. Yes. Great point. Yeah, very much so. He really is. Yeah, he really is. So Dick Ebersole, hopefully we can welcome you into the SNL Hall of Fame after this season. Ashley, I want to go back to you. You've shared six of your choices, so maybe a little one behind. So I want to, I want to catch you up a little bit and take another one off your board here. I'm going to have to go with John Mulaney. As a host or a writer? So I put him, I put him as a writer. Okay.

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[1:08:24] Um, and I went back and forth on this because again, he's somebody, I mean, we talked about earlier, you know, can bring him back. He hosted, you know, the season finale, like I think two years in a row, um, and has absolutely killed it. but we have so many great sketches because of him before we ever saw his face and knew what he looked like. We got graced with the presence of Stefan in the world. And I know my, my life is better because of it.

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[1:08:55] Stefan is one of my all time top 10 favorite characters of Saturday night live history. And so I love not just what he did with Stefan, but anything he did with hater turned to gold um i i think despite you know putting him you know on the stage and getting to see him as a host was really good and i think kind of helped, propel him when he started to do his own stuff but to me i think his genius and what solidified him to me as being great was was his ability to write um lobster diner even i guess as a writer and a host i know he hosted when lobster diner aired but he wrote lobster diner and so i gotta give that i think that's ultimately what pushed me to put him in the writing category for this vote, um was at the end of the day i think he's a writer at heart and we talk about daramie like, voices like a distinct voice on snl to me john mulaney you know it's john mulaney's voice and i think i don't know if that counts for something to me it does absolutely i i agree actually i have him on my list and as a writer, because that is what I know him for, for SNL, that's what I think of. You know, you mentioned Stefan.

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[1:10:11] Definitely top 10, but maybe top five character in the history of the show. How just how popular it seemed like to me every Sunday morning. People I knew we were talking about what Stefan like that sketch like and what he did with Seth Meyers. So and just him being a voice behind that and all the different sketches. And he felt like in his short time, he was one of the go to writers for Lorne, for the cast.

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[1:10:36] And I think this like you said, Thomas, he you know, it's him. He has that you know it's his voice you know what that sensibility he brings to it so i i think and he wasn't a writer and i think that's due to just his crazy talent same with a julio like wasn't a writer for that long because he was just that great and that talented that you know hollywood came and swooped him up but um john mulaney's a slam dunk for me as a writer yeah he's one of the ones on the short list for me of like i'm still contemplating and i wouldn't be surprised if i ultimately put him in and to me there's just like it's it's it's a stacked class so to me it's just like no shame on john mulaney he's he's had some of my favorite sketches.

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[1:11:20] You mentioned stefan actually stefan might be my favorite character of all time and that's a big uh john will obviously bill hater played stefan but john mulaney's a big reason why he was behind what's that name that's a John Mulaney thing and you totally see Mulaney's voice in a sketch like what's that name there was a one-off called what's wrong with Tanya that I always go back to Anna Faris is in that that's just such like a brilliant satire and parody on Lifetime movies recently two seasons ago one of my favorite recent sketches when he was a host and he helped uh write was the monkey judge sketch which I just that that just floored me with how creative and clever it was so he's behind a lot of stuff that I love it's no shame on him that I don't have him as a lock already there's just some other people that that I have as locks that.

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[1:12:11] Be ahead of him but no no offense to Mulaney but I think you both bring a very good point so I'm curious to see John Mulaney's on on the ballot as a host and a writer so I'm curious to see how that impacts things this is last time on the ballot as a host so maybe if he splits the vote this time around maybe if he's just on as a writer then that'll push him through but I'm curious to see how that might impact um the voting uh there for John Mulaney uh so I wanted to share somebody off off my list and i want to talk musical guests and i and i'm curious to see what you you'll to think about musical guests and to me if there's one musical guest that should be in the hall of fame if we're going to put one throughout the show's history to me it should be dave grohl and uh and i just think the fact that he's not already in the hall of fame to me speaks more of how people view musical guests and their relation to snl rather than dave grohl himself He's been on the show 15 times as a musical guest with Nirvana, with Foo Fighters, with them Crooked Vultures. He's come on and played with McCartney, with Neil Young, Tom Petty. I don't know if he played with Neil Young, but he played with Tom Petty for sure. Tom Petty recruited him, and he was going to be in Tom Petty's band. And Dave Grohl's been in sketches as a musical guest. He's had memorable appearances in sketches.

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[1:13:33] So I think if there's one musical guest that should be in the Hall of Fame, it's Dave Grohl. And he's not paul simon's the only one but i have dave grohl as a stone cold lock for me i'm curious i don't know ashley like what kind of thought did you give to musical guests how do you feel about dave grohl and his place in snl history no i i have dave grohl he's the only musical vote that i have on my ballot actually and i felt kind of bad because you're i i think I think that musical guests are a very underrated part of the show.

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[1:14:09] And when you think of what makes Saturday Night Live so iconic over the years is who they've been able to bring on over these years. And I think that speaks to how important this show is to people and culture. I mean, everybody that comes on is, I've been watching this show since I was a little kid. I've been dreaming of this since I was a little kid. Everybody says that you know when they come on the show and I think.

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[1:14:33] Who they get as a musical guest speaks volumes to that as well. And the fact that somebody like Dave has come back so many times, time and again, and in so many different capacities shows the versatility. And I love when you get a musical guest and you get that cameo in a sketch. And I think that makes the crowd go wild. It gets people so excited because you have this, this rock star come on and they're, it kind of brings them down to earth a little bit. You see them as a real person, And as somebody who's not afraid to be silly, put themselves out there on live TV, sometimes in a sketch that makes fun of themselves. And so now you have that, you know, self self deprecation and makes them even more likable. And I think there's an art and a science to who they pick. Obviously, you know, their scheduling and agents and contracts and all the stuff that goes into it. But I think when they can marry up a host and a musical guest, I think that can really set the tone and the theme for that entire episode that whole night. I think when you bring on somebody like Dave Grohl, regardless of who the host is, you know you're going to get something good all the way through from start to finish.

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[1:15:43] Yeah, Jeremy, he's been appearing on SNL for going on 32 years now. His first appearance was with Nirvana in 92. The most recent one was season 49 in the Nate Bargatze episode this year. He was in a sketch this season. So what do you think, Jeremy? Do me, do me proud. Yeah, he's, he's on my list. He's a lock. I think it's interesting because I do feel like of all the categories we have, the one that is hard to line up as musical guests, because to, to your point, Ashley, it is such a huge and important part of the show and the show's history.

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[1:16:20] And it's also, if you look at, like, what MTV is now and all these other, it's, like, the one platform I feel like, you know, oh, you're the musical guest on SNL, where, like, all of America can, like, really see you. Like, no matter, like, if you're Bieber or Taylor Swift, we're all watching you, which is, like, I think in today's culture very hard to have that, where it's, like, oh, we all saw blank on SNL. Like, we don't really have any place to see musical people, like, all at the same time anymore. More so it's important but i think it's weird because it's like oh that shows the establishment that's the window in time of who was popular you can look at snl's musical guest but i think we think about like you got to have this amazing performance on there to be memorable and all that being said dave grohl he has that because if you look at dave grohl's career on just with With the Foo Fighters being on SNL, he should be a Hall of Famer, just how many times he's been on. But to your point, Thomas, Nirvana, that was a memorable moment in music history and in SNL history. When Nirvana came on SNL, that's when we're like, wow, alternative music has really broken through. It was seeing them overtake Michael Jackson and them being the musical guest on Saturday Night Live. And they gave a memorable performance. So all that combined is like, if there's a slam dunk musical guest throughout the show's 49 year history, it's Dave Grohl.

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[1:17:48] Yeah, and he's inching toward that line. So he was first on the ballot in season two, did an episode with Ryan McNeil on Dave Grohl. He had 32% of the vote, went up to 54% in season three, 55% after last season. So he's inching there. And I think the more we advocate for Dave Grohl as the musical guest, to me, he's the musical guest in SNL history. People say Paul McCartney, Paul Simon. To me, Dave Grohl is the musical guest in SNL history. For sure. So, and one of my favorite all-time performances was in 2020 after Biden got elected. They performed, Foo Fighters performed times like these. And I like got a lump in my throat when they performed that. Absolutely. That was amazing. So, he has an iconic performance. I actually cried. Like, I was crying watching that. Yeah, for sure. No, it was just like stunning. We know that was strategic. There's a reason for so many reasons that Lorne, that they went and picked the Foo Fighters for that. And also, you've heard Dave Grohl talk about it with the Foo Fighters and the Letterman appearances and SNL. He has an appreciation for comedy and appreciation for what those comedy institutions mean. And I like that he appreciates that. So that also is another, for me anyway, another feather in his cap. He appreciates what this means.

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[1:19:10] Yeah, this is awesome. I hope Dave Grohl gets his just due. All three of us have him on our ballots. it's the way we're whittling this down Ashley it makes sense to go back to you so I want to get your next choice um so I picked uh listen I'm trying to because you know I know we have a few left I'm trying to think of who I want to put on here oh I one of my hosts that I voted for was Justin Timberlake again I think he could have his own best of DVD at this point he's been on so often what he's done not only as him as himself you know when he's hosted and musical guest at the same time but also what he did with the lonely island and his bromance with andy sandberg i think just it gave us genius they those two worked so well together not just in the digital shorts but i think just with anything that they did on screen we talked about paula pelsketch omelette bill again and then how many times he came back and we got all the different iterations of you know the wrapping paper or but just iconic absolutely iconic to me he's somebody too that i think we saw the first time that he was on it was like oh.

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[1:20:24] Should he be a cast member? I remember thinking that to myself. He could totally come do this every single week, and I think he would fit in seamlessly as a cast member. And I think he had great comedic timing, also wasn't afraid to make fun of himself, and just really go all in with whatever they gave him. Yeah. Well, Ashley, what I thought to myself when Timberlake first appeared on SNL was, I hate this guy. I hate him because he can sing, he can dance, he's good looking, and he's funny, and he's good on SNL. Like that's just no unfair like i hate you man and for those reasons i have him on my ballot i hate him so much that he was so good on snl that i put justin timberlake uh on my ballot he's one of like the picks that were it was a lock to me so it's i'm surprised that timberlake's not even just for name recognition alone i'm surprised that timberlake's not on jeremy do you have timberlake i'm gonna be honest with the people here yes okay um last time i was on here i left Lonely Island off and people made points which was egregious it was bad and I was like people were making points and I'm like I'm like I'm.

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[1:21:34] I'm like, should I double down? But, like, man, they're kind of convincing me, like, I made a mistake. And then I was like, I think I told you afterwards that. And then I'm like, I'm not going to do that again. So I'm going to be real with you, Thomas, Ashley. I had Candace Virgin on it for my, like, other host. But hearing the points you made, Ashley, I just crossed her off. Sorry, Candace. I love you. I love Murphy Brown. You're important. Five-timer. but i'm uh i'm putting justin on um for everything that you said and i think it's impressive like just to add on yeah the duo i think of with justin on snl is andy sandberg but he's so great in the snl pantheon that like the duo people talk about is like him and jimmy fallon another great cast member yeah i know that's from the tonight show and stuff too but still it's like he's got like like, two, like, partnerships with SNL, like, greats here. That's how awesome. I mean, some of his sketches are some of the all-time great moments that in the 21st century that really put SNL on, like, a new generation's, like, radar.

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[1:22:39] And it's not the show. It's, like, a different category. I think it means something. I know he's a big name, but for the SNL 40th, him and Jimmy were the first one. They opened it. And that has to mean something for all those amazing, talented people who were in that room that night that Lauren ultimately went with, I mean, and Jimmy, but Justin and Jimmy to open the 40th anniversary special. So I righted my wrong. Sorry, Candice, love you, but I'm going with Justin Timberlake. I agree, Ashley. Well done. Yeah, Candice too. Candy Bergen was somebody who I considered as well. Almost put her on the list. She was one of those, like Michael Donahue, I put her on, then took her off, and then put her on, then took her off. Candy, to her credit, she hosted... We did the same thing. Yeah. Candy, to her credit, she hosted maybe the best episode in SNL history. It was a Christmas episode. I think it was the season two or three Christmas episode. Frank Zappa was the musical guest. Yeah. But it was just...

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[1:23:39] Five-star sketch after five-star sketch. So she has a great, great all-timer episode under her belt. She also hosted, I think it was the fifth episode. And it's what many people, like critics, but of the cast and crew who say that was the first episode that established the template for what SNL would be. It's like that first episode she hosted. So that's why it was tough. I considered her for all that. that but ashley i you know i see your law skills because i'm i'm like you you got me you got so i will say this between candy and justin timberlake if it makes a difference with voters so candace bergen has one more year after this on the ballot so she she was first got on the ballot in season two justin timberlake was a season one so if he doesn't get voted in now he's gone so and that would really surprise me so if that's like that could possibly be a tiebreaker for some people like us who are kind of like candy or justin timberlake and candice bergen has another year if she doesn't make it so that could be like a tiebreaker too so much love for you candice bergen for sure yeah love girl yeah uh jeremy uh what's your next one so i'm gonna go with someone who, I go back and forth with, but I could be convinced to go the other way. I don't know how you guys feel, but I'm just going to keep on keeping it spicy.

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[1:25:06] I'm going to go with the Sandman. I put Adam Sandler on the list.

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[1:25:11] I wasn't sure because I do feel like he definitely gets a lot of love for his name and post-SNL career.

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[1:25:21] I think about him, and when you think about the early 90s, you're thinking, one of the first names you're thinking about is Sandler. He's a part of that group, the bad boys of SNL with Farley, Sandler, Spade, Rock. You're always going to think about it. And in some of his moments, some of his musical performances on there, the songs are just classics, and they're still played over and over. And that's his time on SNL, from the Thanksgiving song, and, you know, opera man and just memorable moments who I feel like he kind of was like, I guess, another sports term, like a home run hitter. To me, his batting average wasn't the highest, but he can knock it out the park and get you like a big home run, but he might strike out too. And when he strikes out, you're like, golly. But when he knocked it out the park, you jumped up and you were cheering the loudest. So it was tough for me, but I'm like, you know, He did make his mark on the show, and he is memorable. And there's moments with him. There's sketches with him from Schmitz Gay and all those different things. You've got to think about.

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[1:26:29] He's probably the hardest one for me, but Adam Sandler. I'm completely with you. Yeah, Jeremy. I'm completely with you. He's like Reggie Jackson. Yeah. Reggie Jackson struck out a lot, but at the same time, are you going to leave Reggie Jackson out of a Hall of Fame? I don't know. Yeah, Sandler to me, that's a similar case, because his time at SNL probably wasn't as good as people remember, but he left such an impact. It's like...

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[1:26:54] I got to vote for him just because of the impact alone that he left on the show. So that's one of those weird things. He's like on a personal Thomas favorite.

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[1:27:04] Sandler's not that high, honestly. Same, same. But he's undeniable as far as like the highs were super high for me personally too. And just the mark that he left on the show and the impact that he had. Like i i have him in there but for the same kind of with the same similar hesitancy as you dare me yeah yeah so what do you think ashley again i'm just gonna sound like an echo um because i completely agree with you guys i went back and forth and not because i don't think adam sandler is absolutely epic um one of my favorite comedians of all time but you're right i oscillated between.

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[1:27:42] Because when i think of adam sandler i think of what he did off of us and now i think of Happy Gilmore, Billy Madison, Big Daddy, you know, I think of all the amazing movies that he made, but his diving board into that was Saturday Night Live. It was SNL. And I think too, he was so unique. I think he was so different than anybody that they had had up to that point, but they weren't really quite sure what to do with him. And so there were some just not great, great, you know, sketches or things that he did. But, you know, if we wanted him to do a song on Weekend Update, you know, he was our guy. And I think that other than Opera Man are probably, to me, his songs on Weekend Update were more memorable than anything else. Is that an Opera Man? I can't really remember anything else other than Shitsuke that he really did. And I think that made him a good glue person for some of the sketches as well. But I think what he was able to do after SNL was so much bigger. And so that's why I ended up leaving him off, actually. I know this is probably going to get some people very angry. I could be absolutely convinced to put him back on, though. I mean, that's how it was really, really hard.

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[1:28:56] Only because, again, personally, actually, my brain associates Adam Sandler with, you know, his movies and not SNL. Yeah. Could I ask a quick question, I guess, to both of you? How do you guys feel? Because I've seen it go different ways with big SNL fans. When a former cast member comes back to host a show, and let's say they have a really good hosting gig, does that bump them up as a cast member? Or is that just like, oh, that's nice, but it doesn't really make a difference as a cast member for you?

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[1:29:32] Oh, that's a really good question. Cause now that you say that, I remember when he hosted and he did the tribute to Chris Farley and I was a puddle of tears. I'm going to cry thinking about that. Oh my God. Yeah. I just, to me, that was just, Adam Taylor, what a great guy too. I mean, just an amazing. By all accounts, maybe the nicest guy in Hollywood. Absolutely. Right. I've never heard anybody say a bad thing about Sandler. Me neither. Seriously. Maybe I'll put him on. I think Jeremy, I mean, just that one hypothetical question, I don't even think you asked it to change my mind, but I think that question alone changed my mind. Yeah, because I go back and forth because I'm like, should that be like, oh, that's a nice little feather in your cap, but should that bump you? And I've seen some, I know like with John Schneider, and that does bump for a lot of the people on his shows. Like, oh, they had a great memorable hosting gig. and I'm like, should that matter? Like, affect your cast member career? And I'm not saying there's a right or wrong. I'm not sure, to be quite honest. Like, does that matter? Like, does that affect it or not? Like, I don't know. I used to, yeah, I used to think that it, I used to completely separate it. So, like, I used to just only be the type that would just look at Sandler's cast member career and that was it. I've been persuaded more so by, like, John, people like John Schneider, who, he does, take more of a.

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[1:31:01] Wide lens look at the person's contributions to snl and so he does take a look at their hosting gig so i think i'm inching more towards john's side but i'll say this i think i might add a few points if it's a good hosting gig but i won't subtract from a bad one because i like that yeah i have somebody who's on my ballot as a lock who who quite frankly had a terrible hosting gig in my opinion uh so i but i don't dock points for that i only add points for like a really memorable hosting like kristen wig not like she needed to be her points added for her in my mind but her hosting gig here in season 49 to me that's like one of the best episodes in years i absolutely love that episode and so that adds maybe some points in my mind for for kristen wig not like she needs it that's my hall of famer all-time great but like to me that adds a little something To your point, I look at, like, when Eddie Murphy came back, like, I think that was Christmas 2019, like, right before COVID, and he hadn't done it in a year, and he was phenomenal.

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[1:32:07] And, like, that was, like, amazing. But then the other side of it, you know, God rest his soul, when Chris Farley hosted, like, it wasn't good, but I don't hold that against him at all. Like, it doesn't dock him, but, like, he's an all-time great who had not a good hosting performance. And we know why but it's like i don't ever think about that and be like well is chris farley that all-time great now because of that bat like that doesn't matter so it's like to your point yeah yeah and because i thought i thought sandler's hosting gig was really good it was i thought it was a strong episode aside from the farley song too like i thought there were a lot of really strong sketches that night eddie murphy called him to get like because since sandler hadn't done it so long eddie called him for like advice because then murphy did it afterwards well and i think what your question kind of triggered in my memory, Jeremy, was, oh, yeah, like.

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[1:32:58] He did have such a huge impact on the show because he had that relationship with Farley and he had that relationship with Spade and kind of, he really did become part of that group. And even though his humor may have been a little bit different and maybe his sketches didn't always succeed like, like some of those other guys did, but he really was embedded. And I know I talked about in my episode too, about, you know, he was part of what helped me fall in love with SNL, you know, at that age when I was a kid, but when I was looking at my ballot, and I was trying to be clinical. I wasn't trying to totally vote just based off Ashley's heart. You know, I was trying to, you know, think of certain factors and everything. And like I said, I kept going back and forth. But I have been convinced, Jeremy, I will give you an honorary law degree. I appreciate that. You have lawyered the lawyer. All right. All right. That made my day. All right. That's awesome.

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[1:33:48] That's awesome. All right. So Adam Sandler, a lot of really good discussion on the Sandman. Ashley, who's the next one that you would like to talk about so uh the next one that i want to talk about is rachel dratch and again noticing a theme you know kind of these like quirky female comedian characters.

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[1:34:10] Um i think of i was obsessed with sully and zazu um the characters that she did with jimmy fallon the boston teenagers um that was probably one of my favorites during that era and uh of course we you know when we talked about debbie downer earlier that just goes without saying um such a genius genius concept and executed so perfectly by rachel dratch and she could do i think she was a little bit to me like kate mckinnon and they gave rachel a lot of like male impressions to do because she did have that kind of unique look about her. But I think also because she was so versatile in her comedy that she was able to do so many different things, anything they asked her to do, she did it and she nailed it. In addition to having her own characters that go down in history as some of the all time greats. Great and i i actually saw tina fey and amy puller do their stand-up this last year and they brought rachel on as a guest and they recreated um some of the weekend update stuff that they did together and again it sounds like i cry 24 7 i promise i don't but there were tears.

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[1:35:26] During this show as well just because i was like i feel like a kid this is evoking so much happiness and I think that reminded me of just what the impact she had on Saturday Night Live when she was there.

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[1:35:40] Alright, yeah, Rachel Dratch. Jeremy, how do you feel about Dratch? I mean, I do love Rachel, and I love all Ashley's points. I don't have her on, and it's not that I don't think she's a Hall of Famer. It's more like there was just so many... Like you said, Thomas, earlier, it's such a tough class that I couldn't put her on this year, but it's not that I don't think she is a Hall of Famer. I do think she is that. I just couldn't get her on over some other people this year but she every point ashley made is dead on and and like is if she gets in i'm like happy i'm not like how does she like but i just on my list couldn't bump her over some other people on here no i'm the same way like it's no offense to rachel that why i don't have her on i could see myself voting for her in future seasons uh definitely depending on how the ballot shakes out a hall of fame talent for sure uh very memorable i think You said that she was given a lot of male roles and she really excelled in them. One of the ones that comes to mind is that movie, that old movie producer, Abe, what was his name?

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[1:36:49] But yeah, Rachel played that so well. Of course, Debbie Downer and Sully and Zazu. So they were just, yeah, she was just a really important part of that cast, like a part of the rebirth of the rejuvenation of SNL around that time. Um don't have her on my list but i think that's a solid choice it's an understandable pick and i can see myself voting for her uh down the line this is her first year on the ballot so yeah and i can see you know i think it's maybe she was my kyle mooney you know maybe not a lot of people got some of her her comedy too and um so shout out to the mooney fans who probably hate me now um but yeah i can definitely appreciate like i said you know comedy is so subjective i think I think that's what's so wonderful is there's something out there for everybody. And yeah, she's one that I wouldn't be mad about. Cause I.

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[1:37:40] Yeah, all those Mooney bros are going to attack us now, Ashley. I know, I apologize. Thanks for that. You sicked them on us. So it looks like we each have four left. So I'm curious to see what kind of overlap there is by my count. So I'm curious to see what the overlap is and whatnot. Jeremy, what's the next one you want to talk about? Yeah, I'm going to go. Let's keep it going. Let's get weird again. I'm going to go with somebody who I feel like probably won't get in. But I have this platform to talk about this person. I will.

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[1:38:14] I nominate Herb Sargent. Oh, yeah. Interesting. I put Herb Sargent out there because one of the OG writers, and you guys already know how I feel about everyone associated with being there from the beginning, came up with the name Not Ready for Primetime Players, which is important in the SNL history. Also, Weekend Update. How much do we associate Weekend Update? A lot of people I know who aren't even SNL fans would like Weekend Update. And that's been throughout my entire lifetime. They don't like the show, but they'll watch that part. Weekend Update is such a key factor of it. And he was big in creating it and really executing that. You know, Chevy Chase worked hand in hand with Herb Sargent. And Herb made sure all the news stories, the real ones were in there. Plus also like the goofy ones. And then once Chevy left, he kept that with Jane Curtin and Aykroyd and Murray. And then even it got revitalized with Dennis Miller. He was a part of it. A lot of those writers, which I thought was cool to Lawrence... Him picking out those writers in the early days, they weren't typical sketch writers. They had some lampoon background. They were just different. He liked their sensibility. It was Herb Sargent as that veteran writer who really had to break down step by step of how you write a sketch to them and teach them.

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[1:39:36] They all got there in July of 75 and then they went on the air in October. In that time, he's really being like the... He was much older than those guys, including Lorne, to really show them how to write sketch and how to be a comedy writer. So I just think his importance to the show, his importance to being a mentor to the writers, his importance to creating one of the most, if not maybe the most iconic sketch in SNL history with Weekend Update, I nominate Herb Sargent. Yeah, the adult in the room. He was that voice, the steady hand, the veteran, the adult in the room that the original cast and writers needed.

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[1:40:15] Maybe in a lot of ways, they might have been a little aimless with that. But I think he helped focus, like harness their creative, youthful energy to something productive. I think that was very patient is whatever. Very patient, man. Yeah. And he took a pay cut like he he he didn't get paid what he was worth because he had so much experience. But he did that as a favor to Lorne. Mm hmm.

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[1:40:37] Taking a pay cut like that to be on the show so uh i don't have him as a lock he's honestly one of the like handful of folks who i'm still mulling over um ashley have what kind of consideration did you give to herps argent you know he didn't end up on my ballot either um darryl you made an awesome point again with you know we wouldn't have we can update it without him so that's kind of making me rethink it a little bit, but, you know, I had a couple other writers on my list that I think ultimately took the cake. And I think had the earlier years of SNL had the media presence or the media accessibility that we have today, I think that would make a lot of these producers and writers and, you know, the staff and the crew behind the scenes way more, more it more accessible to us to know who they are we're now you know we can name writers by name we can name their sketches we can follow them on on social media um it's they're so much more accessible and i think that kind of keeps them in the forefront of at least my mind a little bit more than some of these older guys but yeah yeah definitely gave him good consideration ultimately lets him off my list um i 100 agree that he deserves to be in the hall of fame though though, because you're right. I mean, weekend update is SNL. SNL is, I mean, those are just anonymous things.

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[1:42:02] I can't imagine SNL would ever get rid of Weekend Update. I think people would riot and revolt as they should. Yeah. Yeah. And if anybody has any, if they want to go listen to our episode on Herb Sargent, John Schneider and I go back into the archives. John Schneider was my guest for Herb Sargent. He laid out a really good case for Herb Sargent. I developed even more of an appreciation for Herb Sargent after doing that episode.

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[1:42:27] So Herb Sargent, let me see here. as far as herb sergeants uh where he's kind of landed on the ballot so this is his third time on the ballot he went from 11 in season three to 21 so probably a bit of an uphill climb but we need people like dare me to kind of like yeah to kind of count his fist on the table to make a drum for him so uh we'll see we'll see what happens with herb sergeant uh this season uh i want to go to one of my choices. I have three cast members and one writer left on my ballot. And I want to talk about one of the cast members and one that I might be, good chance I'm on an island with this person, but I think it's one of the more, underrated cast members in SNL history. If you look at their body of work, it's pretty striking. It's a Hall of Fame resume, in my opinion, but this person might not have a Hall of Fame name. And I'm going to advocate for Vanessa Bayer. To be in the SNL Hall of Fame. If you look at her list of sketches, if you go chronologically, she did Miley Cyrus, she did Jacob the Bar Mitzvah Boy on Weekend Update, she and Cecily with the ex-porn stars.

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[1:43:40] She did Rachel with Friends. I know you don't love Kyle Mooney, but she had a classic Kyle Mooney sketch. It was called Awkward Flirts. The Totino's trilogy, trilogy. Vanessa Bear totally made those Totino's trilogy. She did Santa Baby with Ryan Gosling, which is still like a Stone Cold, I think like Christmas classic. She ended her tenure with the Weather Girl, Don Lazarus on Weekend Update. And she filled in the gaps in between. She was like that steady hand. She could be the lead of a sketch. She can be the glue person in the sketch. Sketch she i think she put in her tenure she put in enough years at snl uh but i just think like she wasn't i think she got a little lost because she worked with kristin toward the end of her tenure then she worked with kate and cecily in 80 and so i think vanessa bear probably got lost a little bit in the shuffle but i think if you look at her resume to me it's pretty striking and if you think back to what she did i think vanessa bear honestly is an snl hall of famer i have her in the top my top 25 to 30 cast members of all time and i think that's hall of fame territory so am i on an island on this like ashley what do you think of vanessa bear.

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[1:44:54] Oh, she's on my list. Yeah. Oh, okay. I cannot see a Swarovski crystal store out in real life and just not start cracking up. Like my poor husband, every time we're walking and I see one of those, I, we're not porn stars anymore. Um, it's just, yeah. One of my favorite things that she did, um, of all time. Yeah, you're right. I think she, she's, I think she's an underrated. I think she was a dark horse.

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[1:45:24] And she could go from the, again, kind of the same thing with these really silly characters to the Santa baby where she turns into this kind of serious, creepy, could start a fight in the middle of the sketch type of person. And yeah, sorry, I'm just really in awe of the amazing. Yeah, to me, she could do it. She could do it all. And to me, it's just name recognition that probably holds her back because other people on the cast got more shine. But I just love Vanessa Bear. I'm biased. Vanessa Bear, quite frankly, is one of my two favorite cast members ever. So I'm pretty biased here. Jeremy, I don't know. Should we slow our roll with Vanessa Bear? On my list. Really? Yeah. I'm pleasantly surprised by this. And honestly, you said my point that I was going to make this. Is she's, you know, I'm going to keep that sports comparison going. She's Scottie Pippen. She played with MJ and Kate McKinnon. And I'm glad Kate was there, but I think if Kate wasn't there, Vanessa Bayer would get that recognition that, you know, we're talking about. She'd be more known. But she was just, you can't blame anybody. She was next to an all-timer with Kate. And so I feel like that kind of overlooks it. So it's like that MJ and Pippen relationship.

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[1:46:43] And MJ did a lot of great things, but the all-around person was Scottie Pippen. And I think Kate was the slam dunk with the all-around person in that time. To me, it was Vanessa Bayer. She could, like you said, could do everything. So I feel she's a slam dunk Hall of Famer. I think if it wasn't for Maya Rudolph, you can make the case that she's been the most overlooked or underrated cast member. I still have Maya over her as in that top seed for that. That but hopefully that changes but i think vanessa um just had the misfortune of being next to a top five cast member in kate mckinnon i think we all just became best friends i'm so i'm so pleasantly surprised by this i thought i was going to be on my own lonely island as it were like with with this but yeah so so this is awesome so vanessa bear surprisingly enough to me on all three of our ballots she got 33 of the vote last year in her first time which to me.

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[1:47:43] Wasn't bad honestly for her first time out like i wasn't disappointed uh with that i thought people would see gloss over her name and she would get like 10 of the vote or something but 33 like one in three people voted for her for the arsenal hall of fame so let's up those numbers but i think um i'm pretty encouraged and i'm encouraged by what you two said she has a cult following i feel And especially what she's done, she's still, like, with different podcasts, she's still out in people's minds. So I feel like she's not as overlooked as you would think, but she doesn't get the recognition, like, to your point that she should. But I'm not surprised. Like, I think that's a good number, like, where I'm like, I think enough people don't know her, but it's more than what you would think with her. And she has a good podcast, yeah, with her brother Jonah, How Did We Get Weird. So go listen to that. Vanessa's really good Ashley I want to go to you it seems like do how many do you have left three did I lose count.

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[1:48:43] I lost count too, I admit, because I kind of, I didn't write like numbers. I just kind of wrote a list. So I'm trying to make sure I don't repeat. So yeah, I had Vanessa Mayer. I also had Fred Armisen. He is on my ballot. Fred is somebody to me, I think too, at first was kind of this silent assassin. Assassin like he wasn't you know kind of in your face like some of these other comedians are and I think it kind of took a little a few seasons for him to kind of be like oh like who's this Fred guy, um and even I admit that some of his sketches weren't necessarily gelling with my type of humor um some things that I didn't really get but I could appreciate it for what they were and what his talent is, one, his impressions, his voices, his musicality, the glue that he always is holding sketches together, but also, you know, he would kind of team up with some other people as well. I feel like he and Maya Rudolph played off each other really well for a while, especially the Beyonce Prince, you know, impressions that they would do.

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[1:49:48] And yeah, I would call him the silent assassin to me. I feel like, you know, he isn't someone that you would readily think of necessarily but he was on for a really long time and I think not just because he he kind of was like hiding in the shadows and not trying to ruffle feathers I think it was because, he just kind of had that subtle humor um that was still very powerful at the end of the day and I think I I would be remiss if I were to talk about you know who I think belongs in a hall of fame for snl and not say fred armisen's name okay yeah uh jeremy fred armisen he is on my list as well, um and and i think ashley made a great point in the fact that he's someone who not that i'm ever going to make it or try out for snl but a lot of times i'm like well that doesn't fit me because, yeah when i see these people perform they're very like loud and they have these over-the-top characters and i love what she said where he was subtle he was quiet and that kind of i like the people who like you have to kind of like watch like they're not just in your face and i think.

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[1:50:56] Pre fred armisen i kind of thought well yeah you gotta have to be like as a performer in your face and loud but he was very subtle very quiet his versatility was unique and different and i also also say this and I could be off but just from he brought you know people talk about like alternative comedy and like waves of it I feel like he brought a new wave of alternative comedy to SNL like with what he was doing and his sensibility and it was like that hipster kind of I mean I know he did Portlandia but I feel like he really did bring that hipster into the 2000 late 2000 2010s comedy into Saturday Night Live and so So.

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[1:51:39] For everything that Ashley said and for all that, I had to put Fred Armisen on there. Okay, Fred. I've struggled with Fred a little bit over the years.

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[1:51:48] To put it in the batting average terms, for me, his batting average wasn't as high as a lot of other great cast members. I know he was important to the show, but maybe not as important as someone like Adam Sandler. So i couldn't give as many legacy and impact points to fred as i did someone like adam sandler so i don't have fred on my list he's one like rachel dratch where i could see voting for him like ultimately like this is his second time on the ballot so he does have a little bit of time he's one where depending on how the ballot shakes out i'll look and be like yeah dude i think fred i think fred is a hall of famer and i think he does like have all ultimately i think he has a hall of fame impact i think he does have like his his the highs were there like he has high highs as far as sketch goes on the show uh he couldn't jump a lot of the people here on my ballot now um but quite frankly there's probably more than 15 deserving hall of famers so that's why this exercise might be a little tricky and fred's an example of that for me which if you put a water gun to my head and was like, is Fred Armisen a Hall of Famer? I'd be like, yeah, Fred Armisen's a Hall of Famer. Just maybe not right now because of how the circumstances, but you both bring up really good points. And I expect Fred to get in at some point. Again, he got 51% of the vote his first time out. That leads me to believe that his trajectory is Hall of Fame at some point.

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[1:53:15] So Fred Armisen, both of you, it's a no right now for me. I want to go on my list to another cast member somebody they called the ice man because he never broke he was always a steady hand and i think he's an again like a very underrated glue guy type of person but he could also play very like wacky he had no shame put himself out there chris parnell to me i have on my list i definitely think chris is a hall of famer one of the few hall of famers well i guess no because farley and sandler got fired but chris parnell got fired too but then they brought him back at the urging of like Will Ferrell. You have like, in my opinion, the greatest of all time is telling Lorne, hey, we got to bring this guy back because Chris worked so well with everybody on the cast and he was part of so many...

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[1:54:05] Great moments in the show he was part of lazy sunday he was part of all these like iconic things and chris parnell was like he had a thankless role in a lot of ways on snl where he was so good at sketch that they just sort of like handed him things that they didn't feel comfortable with other cast members maybe doing because he was such a steady hand uh i did i just think just looking at chris parnell's work and his his role on the cast i i had to put chris parnell in dave Dave Buckman, who does sketch in Austin, he was my guest for Chris Parnell, and he really made a great case for Chris Parnell. So a little to my surprise, I looked at the list and I said, I'm putting Chris Parnell in over Fred Armisen, surprisingly enough. But I do feel like Chris Parnell's sketch work is just really underappreciated and really great. So, Deremy, Chris Parnell, you have some thoughts? Yeah, he's not on my list.

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[1:55:03] Um you know the always hear debate for hall of fames the hall of fame or the hall of very good i want to put chris parnell in the hall of very good i i like chris parnell i do think he was a glue person um he was a part of lazy sunday which is iconic in a memorable sketch in snl history, um i just think talk about great glue people like he he's not he's not my rudolph like he and i i don't think he's he's not fred where fred brought a totally different sensibility i feel where like for me fred's not personally like haha but fred brought something that like oh this is a new type of comedy that's out there that people are gravitating toward and maybe it's not always for me but like he's bringing that to the mainstream in a way with like what he's doing on here and so that's where like i and i hear you i probably maybe laughed more times at parnell than fred but i i will give fred that uh parnell is uh i like him very but i just i couldn't put him on the list um but he's someone because that episode you did was very good like to ask about him i could be persuaded i maybe need to like re-evaluate but like like we've been saying The list is tough. It's a great class.

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[1:56:25] I have him off, but I definitely could be persuaded. I'm not locked in stone. It's definitely not. I'm just right now, I'm not quite there with him. It's not like a laughable thing. Not at all. Not at all. Ashley, Chris Parnell was part of an era that I know that you really love that's near and dear to your heart. Chris Parnell was smack dab in the middle of a lot of that. What do you think about Chris Parnell?

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[1:56:52] He made my list. Yeah, you're right. That was, you know, one of my favorite eras for sure.

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[1:56:57] And, you know, even, you know, we talked about Lazy Sunday. And of course, I'm a huge, huge, huge Lonely Island fan.

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[1:57:04] And I mean, even they say that, like, they were afraid to kind of do what they did. And they invited because, you know, shout out to their podcast as well with Seth Meyers, that they asked Chris Parnell to be in Lazy Sunday because they didn't want to step on his toes of the fake rap. Of the comedy rap that ultimately they knew that that was his kingdom and they were just happy to you know to be there and be involved and i think that speaks volumes to you know the genius to me that is lonely island looked at chris parnell like that and recognized that you know he was the one to do it first and to do it well and i think you got so many great things from him the versatility his voice i think we were talking about milaney's voice is so recognizable and to me chris parnell's is the same way i mean i'll just be watching tv and randomly hear a commercial and say that's chris parnell's voice um 100 and i just really appreciate everything he brought to that era and you're right i mean will ferrell like the world ferrell saying uh-uh no this guy is that he needs to come back and i cannot imagine snl in that era without chris parnell yeah definitely there There were a couple of things like he did some some kind of alt comedy on SNL around that time. Like some weird Chris Parnell could dabble in like the oddball weird stuff like he did the doctor. He was in the Dr. Beeman sketch with Will Ferrell.

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[1:58:28] Well, Will Ferrell played that just ridiculous doctor. It was such like nonsense and Chris Parnell played the perfect role. He kept it together. He was kind of that steady hand amidst nonsense. And then there was one that he did with Christopher Walken where Chris Parnell played a, like, what do you call a half man, half horse? Why am I blanking on this? Like a centaur? A centaur, yeah. A minotaur, I don't know what that's called.

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[1:58:56] Yeah, so it was a centaur. So Chris Parnell played a centaur that was interviewing for a job with Christopher Walken. And Chris Parnell just played that role so well. It was so odd even for the time on SNL in the early 2000s. So those are just some of the one-offs. And if you want to see like alt comedy and stuff, like I think Parnell, those were two examples of it. I mean, how huge was he? I mean, this may make me sound like a hypocrite, but in maybe the most famous sketch of all, with more cowbell, like he was huge in playing off of Will Ferrell in that and being that like adversary role. Like he played that part very good. Like, which I mean, obviously Will Ferrell and Christopher Walken stripe it and just kill it. But like.

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[1:59:41] Having chris parnell to be that guy and that like you said didn't break what everyone else was breaking like you needed the ice man there especially with jimmy fallon right next to him you need the ice man to like and her ratio and ratio yeah geez yeah both of them break it so like it was just him you know i mean i think my favorite part of that sketch is you know when he complains to chris walkie like you know just tone it down a bit and will ferrell just coming right up to him and playing it so slow like in his face and then they had that like come on gene like it's just classic so i mean he is a part of like you could say maybe the most iconic sketch in snl history yeah a couple of them that and lazy sunday yeah so good point jeremy thanks for making my point yeah i'm a team player yes so so we're almost to the finish line i my account you both have one left and i have two so i'm gonna take one of mine off the board and it's gonna be a writer uh and i'm gonna advocate for jack candy he's um one of my last off my list he's one of my locks just we talked about paula pell in her time people saying that she was the funniest person in the building that's what people said about jack handy in the late 80s and early 90s you have people like conan o'brien and robert smigel and jim downey saying that it was jack handy who cracked us up and made us laugh and and he was a writer's writer and just and we talk.

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[2:01:04] About voice too like jack handy you knew it was jack handy and not just because his name was on the segment but because he had that oddball sensibility that you're like oh that was a jack handy unfrozen caveman lawyer that couldn't have been anybody else but jack handy doing something like that toonsis the driving cat that was jet that was a jack handy deep thoughts i think deep Deep Thoughts alone might get Jack Handy into the Hall of Fame for me. When I was a kid, I didn't think that that was a real person. I thought Jack Handy was a fake name because it sounds vaguely dirty to a kid's mind, especially.

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[2:01:43] So I thought that was like Al Franken or somebody writing under a pen name. And then I found out that Jack Handy was a real person. I started delving more into his comic sensibility and other work. And I'm like, this guy's a genius. and I think just for deep thoughts alone Jack Handy might be a Hall of Famer but then when you look at some of the other sketches that he was behind and a part of and the distinct voice that he brought to SNL to me Jack Handy's a Hall of Famer, so dare me, I know you you're very into advocating for writers and what not, where do you stand on Jack Handy here?

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[2:02:20] I'm glad you – I figured somebody would say, so I couldn't get him on, but he's definitely a Hall of Famer. So I'm glad you kind of did me a solid and advocated – because there were just some other writers who I felt got more disrespected or not represented, so I put them on. But Jack Handy, everything you said, absolutely. Just his sensibility, what he brought, especially to that era that he was on. So he didn't make my list only because I was hoping, and I'm glad that somebody else would nominate him, and I could be like, thank you. So um i he didn't make my list only because of i only have 15 to pick from but jack handy is is a hall of famer for sure and he could go 50 50 and that's reflective in the voting because he's been hovering around 50 for three cycles now so that's not a surprise to me uh ashley where do you stand on jack handy so i mean pretty much everything you said tom for jack handy is what i was going through my head when I was looking at Jack Handy. I mean, I get toons is one of my favorite, favorite sketches of all time. Like I get the giggles, like uncontrollably cannot control and stop laughing every time I watch a toons sketch.

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[2:03:30] But again, you know, it was getting hard. Cause you know, I'm torn because I, you know, I had Jack Handy and Adam McKay as two writers that I kept going back and forth on as far as to me, you know, iconic writers for Saturday night live. And then, you know, gosh, gosh, I love Ana Gasteyer so much. Do I save a spot for her?

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[2:03:53] Yeah, I wanted so bad to put Jack Handy on, but I'm torn between those three. And I think kind of listening to you talk about it and lay it out, I may, I don't know, Jeremy, do you want to play the counter argument to me putting Jack Handy in my last spot? What do you think? I think Jack Handy, it's good for them to put him in that last spot. I really do. do i think he's he's that writer who like thomas thomas made the points but just brought that sensibility and brought that funny and brought that uniqueness to that show i i think he's a writer that you know when you think about like a golden era of writers in that time like his name is always one of the first ones that you mention and i think that says something to how important So I think it's cool to have him on there. And Ashley, Jack Handy's basically a New Mexican. So if that does anything, because he lives in Santa, he's lived in Santa Fe for a long time. So he's basically a New Mexican at this point. Okay, done. That's it. I guess, although, do we need to ask him red or green? His answer to that may also, you know. Yeah, we'll ask him red or green. And that might be, I'll see if I could get a hold of him. And then I'll let you know by the time voting ends. Although, to be fair, I don't know that there's a wrong answer to red or green. Yeah, that's a trick question sometimes. I don't know. It is.

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[2:05:20] So uh so jack candy maybe ashley yeah i mean again it was one of those i looked forward to deep thoughts being on that week's snl like i ended up looking forward to digital shorts being on by the moment like if i saw that black screen that said a digital short an snl digital short pop-up i was like oh my god yes my week is made and it was the same thing when i saw the little cursive start going across the screen and the little stock video of the couple like walking down the beach holding hands my week was set like i knew that it was going to be good because i was getting a deep thoughts by jack candy so i mean i think the nostalgia may be pushing me into it, oh god absolutely no talking about how like they would visit uncle caveman and every now and then uncle caveman would eat one of them and it wasn't until later that they found out that uncle caveman man was a bear kind of things like that like jack just jack candy sensibility like i love those deep thoughts like i like buy a book of deep thoughts like yeah.

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[2:06:20] Oh, man. So yeah, Jack Handy's definitely on my list. Is there anybody, Ashley, left for you that you want to kind of hash out here with us? Yeah, I guess I had a few that I was really torn between, like I said, Adam McKay and Ana Gastar. I was really torn about putting them on.

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[2:06:39] Ana Gastar, to me, is part of the Sherry O'Terry and Molly Shannon and just that epic group of women at that time who had such hilarious and iconic roles. I mean, obviously we got Martha Stewart because of Anagostia and all the amazing things that she would do to parody, you know, like her cooking naked, you know, while doing her show and being completely serious and unbothered by it to the, to the cults, you know, being one half of the cults with Will Ferrell, I think is such an iconic sketch as well. That would make me laugh every single time. And to this day, if I'm near a microphone, I will say, we got a hot mic here. We got a hot mic going on. I mean, who doesn't, who, who watched that and doesn't do that when they're near a microphone now. Um, and so it was so hard and I kept going back and forth. Yeah. Like you said, this is such a challenging exercise because I would say almost all of the names that you presented deserve to be in the hall of fame at one point, but there's definitely a case to be made for, for, for almost all of them. Yeah, for sure. Well, we got the Adam McKay guy right here. Jeremy did the Adam McKay episode with me yes I did so if you want like Jeremy if you have any like thing to advocate as far as Adam McKay I want to hear it well I think we've all even throughout talked about Will Ferrell's impact and I think.

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[2:07:59] Most people have him as the goat and we talk about that writer you know we talk about how Mulaney and Bill Hader have that well even like we've seen like what they did with the movie career but before that a lot of like what Will Ferrell did on SNL.

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[2:08:15] That partnership with Adam McKay was showing. A lot of those iconic sketches that we think about with Will Ferrell, he was doing that with Adam McKay. And also just the fast track that he got to being bumped to being head writer. It was like, I think, Tom, it was like a year. That's like a year on the show. He was like the head writer. And also, once again, just like I said about Paula Pell and Molly Shannon and being a part of that crew in 95, 96 to help really bring the show back when I think Lorne has said that was his toughest time as producer and he was getting hit from the critics, getting hit from network execs at NBC and he really had to change the show up and I credit a lot of people but also people behind the screen like Adam McKay. So that's the strong case I have for him.

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[2:09:08] And to show how highly Lorne thought of Adam McKay, Adam McKay pulled a really great power play, a power move when he was going to leave SNL. He was going to leave, but he told Lorne, I'll only stay if I could have carte blanche to make these little short movies and have my own segment. And Lorne said, go for it. So we saw these little weird movies that Adam McKay made, the digital shorts, honestly. These were the first digital shorts. that's where the Lonely Island guys got the digital short term and even like the font and stuff was from like the Adam McKay shorts and Adam McKay had such sway and pull at SNL that Lauren said okay yeah we'll give you our own segment you can make these movies and Jeremy and I went through the Adam McKay shorts on our episode and they were just wild some of them were so out there and just, wild and funny there was that one with the.

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[2:10:00] Pond the food pond shop and then the shimmy is that one with the shimmy one that's such a great one the one with ben stiller the h is o with glenn fry hilarious just yeah so he had adam mckay's just had his own sensibility and so i think there's a strong case for adam mckay on a gas tire too one of my favorites as well around that era so so yeah so this is tough i'm glad we're hashing this out.

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[2:10:25] Ashley, you made a case because I do appreciate those era, those ladies who broke that crappy boys club thing. And I do think of that time. I think of Sherry O'Terry so highly and Molly Shannon.

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[2:10:40] And what you just said about Anna Gosteyer, I'm like, wow, I maybe haven't given her. I liked her, but I'm like, did I give her enough credit for what she did on SNL? So you're really making me rethink about her legacy. Seeing like man i'm like she she's i think yeah she's a hall of famer now jeremy who's who's on who's the last one on your list last one on my list is um i think so many people's favorite just i think a lot and he's one of those people where you look at it in sports where you're like wow this person yeah like he's a great player i know that and then you start having like discussion you're like oh he's like a top 20 player and then you go is this guy like one of of the all-time greats yeah and like that's Will Forte for me where it's just like you'd like oh yeah Will Forte's great and then you start talking about it you're like oh wow he's even greater then it's like is this dude like a top 10 guy like he's just and like am I sleeping on Will Forte like I like him but like just what his versatility the sketches what he was able to do um just from being the guy to be the king of that you know 10 to 1 sketch that like he just personified that but then to do like Mick Gruber and that to take that sketch and then to just build upon that and to making that like An SNL character that has its own movie and just the versatility that he showed.

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[2:12:03] He's the glue guy He's the quirky like strange guy He's the established character person will Forte is someone I feel like people already put him in like the top 20 top 15 and I think like.

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[2:12:17] It's weird to say. He still could be underrated, and I think as time goes on, we could be bumping him up higher and higher on the all-time list. Yeah, you're speaking my language. My two favorite cast members, probably just personal favorites, are Vanessa Baer and Will Forte. Yeah. And Will Forte, because he had such a distinct voice. It was the oddball. It was the 10-to-1. He had his own lane on the show. Even to me, when the show was kind of slumping, I want to say around 2003 2004 it was a little on a downswing Will Forte was like the.

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[2:12:56] Shining light like he was like that saving grace saving grace in some otherwise maybe down episodes I knew that if a Will Forte, sketch that was led by him that was his sensibility popped up it was like the saving grace for me of an otherwise maybe kind of like era that i didn't totally love and you're right jeremy like people know and love will forte and they say oh no you know he has his own lane he has weird sense of humor but then you go look like the falconer he uh did a lot of great one-off sketches um like the spelling bee one there's one duluth live or um jeff montgomery with the trick-or-treater uh you mentioned mcgruber he has the clan ct baclarat which he brought back um when he hosted locker room motivation with peyton manning yeah potato chip thief like greg stink like all these this is a laundry list i did the show with john schneider and we just like geeked out because there was so much to talk like there's so much meat on that bone to talk about and so i think the combination of just quantity and quality and having a distinct voice, Will Forte is one of the all-time greats to me. To me, he's a slam-dunk Hall of Famer. And it's also an example of somebody who.

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[2:14:21] I'm going to be quite frank with you. I thought his hosting gig was terrible. And I was looking forward to it. And I love Will Forte. And then at the end of the show, I was like, man, that was really bad. But it doesn't take points away from me, though. Right. So we'll just ignore that part of it. Ashley, I hope you're a Will Forte fan. Maybe not as much as me and Deremy. But I'm curious to see where you stand on Will Forte. Oh, no. We used to talk about The Falconer after they came on, like back in the day. Like that was our jam you know we we bonded over the falconer with will forte and uh yeah no 100 agree and like this is so random but his ability to like loud whisper is oddly really impressive to me like the voices and the impressions that he does and some of them where he just does that.

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[2:15:09] It's the quietest and loudest whisper all at the same time and it's just so impressive to me somehow it's it's um probably kind of random but i always appreciated his ability to not just do impressions but to kind of make his own characters and make his own voice associated with them, um he also i think unfortunately played you know kind of a pedophilia looking man a little bit too easily and i think that may be off-putting to some voters but don't let that don't let that deter you just focus on you know mcgruber um and falconer and all too convincing maybe yeah yeah right yeah so um no just i i'm a huge huge huge will forte fan um mcgruber was definitely my favorite at the time i'm pretty sure mcgruber and the lonely island got me through law school and kept me sane.

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[2:16:02] Yeah and the movie's wild too we think the sketches are wild but the movie mcgruber is so wild oh yeah probably an extension of and they filmed it in new mexico he did another new mexico connection and uh he filmed they film a gruber in albuquerque mostly but yeah a side note for me like and another sports reference i love charles barkley i think he's funny on inside the nba not my favorite host but uh will forte did one of impossible task. He made Charles Barkley seem funny in those MacGruber sketches where it's Daryl. It's Daryl. But I still cracked up all the time. And I'm like, Barkley to me was not a good host. But Will Forte did something that was hard. He made Barkley funny to me. So another tip to Will Forte.

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[2:16:52] Yeah, Will Forte is just an all-timer. I think that was a good place to end. I don't think, by my count, Ashley and Jeremy, me you're you're all out of votes i'm out yeah that he was yeah so that's perfect to me i think that's a very fitting one will forte honestly like had such a blast with john schneider go re-listen to that if you haven't because john schneider just like laid out the case perfectly and there was so many sketches that will for today we didn't even talk about he worked with who i consider the goat will ferrell in a sketch called pepper grinder yes ferrell was hosting and they just like yeah will forte and will ferrell that was like a dream come true for me oh yeah a completely weird oddball sketch with the two of them that was like perfect that pepper grinder sketch so yeah so we did it everybody we shared our ballots uh i think um a lot to consider uh voting is open now until may 17th at 9 p.m eastern time so we do have some time to kind of like some of the things that were up in the air that weren't locked but we were considering we have some time to mull those over and potentially put them on the ballots or not. So, Ashley, thank you so much for coming back. You're my guest for Kate McKinnon. You did a great job today.

Track 2:

[2:18:09] Great conversation. Thank you. Took me back to over 20 years ago, like you said, when we would geek out about the Falconer and the Culp's and all this SNL stuff. So that's so much fun. I don't know if there's anything you want to promote or say hi to anybody or oh my goodness um hi mom stereotypically and uh just yeah thanks so much for having me on I have such a blast doing this like I said it's always great when um I'm with people who like to enjoy listening to me talk about SNL as much as I enjoy talking about it so I had a lot I had a blast.

Track 2:

[2:18:43] You are awesome. Thank you so much again for coming back. We'll probably see you again, season six of the SNL Hall of Fame. We're doing another season, definitely going to get the lineup here in a few weeks. And I'll definitely get a hold of you for that. So, Deremy Dove, thank you so much again for joining me. Always great to have you here on the SNL Hall of Fame. What would you like to promote? mode uh thomas it's you know always a pleasure when uh when you and jamie have me you know i make sure to keep my feet clean wipe them off when i get to come into the the hallowed halls of the snl hall of fame and ashley it was just awesome chatting with you today and not just because i got out of yard work but it truly was a pleasure talking with both of you so thank you so much and uh just yeah to plug our show thomas pop culture five where we'd look at anything in pop culture and we give our five essential you know lists of that topic for the week and uh a lot of people are liking it and i know you feel the same way we're just humbled and glad that people are liking it and i love doing it with you so thank you for that and uh for those you've heard us doing these sports references i also do a sports history podcast bigger than the game with daramie and jose so uh me and my my co-host jose talk about a coach a player a game.

Track 2:

[2:20:07] In sports history and we connect the past to the present. That's on all platforms too as well. Same with Pop Culture 5. I know there's a lot of stuff out there, but if you have time and you like what we're doing here, please give those a listen as well. Just thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely, man. Thank you for being a great co-host on Pop Culture 5. A little tease, SNL-related tease here. I think we're cooking up a little something to coincide with around the premiere of season 50 of SNL. So we're kind of already looking ahead, kind of cooking something up a little bit at Pop Culture 5 to kind of coincide with the premiere of the 50th season of SNL. Excited. Yeah, I'm excited about that. Thank you both so much for joining me. For the listeners out there, for the voters, you can register to vote if you haven't already at SNLHOF.com. If you're a past voter, Jamie will email a ballot to you. Voting is now open and will close on May 17th at 9 p.m. Eastern Time. So thank you so much for listening. For Ashley Bauer and Jeremy Dove, I'm Thomas Senna.

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[2:21:19] See you next time on the SNL Hall of Fame podcast. So long, everybody.

This week on the podcast we reveal the Don Pardo Award winner for Season 5. This high prestigious honor is bestowed onto a person or group of people who contribute to the show's success despite not being eligible for traditional election into the Hall.

Transcript:

Track 2:

[0:42] Thank you so much, Doug Donatz. It is great to be here in the SNL Hall of Fame.

The SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair where each episode we take a deep dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest, or writer and add them to the ballot for your consideration.

Once the nominees have been announced, we turn to you, the listener, to vote for the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined for perpetuity in the hall.

Except for this week. Because this is our very special Don Pardo Award show where the three of us, Thomas, Matt, and myself put our heads together and award the Don Pardo Award to a deserving individual, or in the case of this year's award, deserving individuals.

I won't bury the lead any longer, but before I go anywhere, please. please wipe your feet.

Track 2:

[1:43] This week, we are going to be talking about a major component of Saturday Night Live, and that is the SNL band.

So the way we're going to tackle this is we're going to go in chronological order to the best of our ability.

We might miss a couple of years, but we can fill Fill in the blanks as necessary for you to get your little history lesson.

But this has been enough of me talking right now.

How are you doing, Thomas? Hey, JD.

Doing really well. It's nice to be on a little like an actual episode with you and Matt, like the three of us kind of uniting here. Yeah. One united front.

This is really fun. We were talking as we're recording this, we're coming off a really fantastic Kristen Wiig episode. So I think all of us are kind of energized by SNL right now.

So we're taking that energy from the recent Kristen Wiig episode and putting it forth here for this. Oh, that's fantastic.

Matt, you're not in your usual corner this week. No, no. Yeah, I've moved things, moved my desk around.

I need to make room to watch that, you know, 1970s French disco funk and dance around.

Track 2:

[3:00] I wonder if they were even i know when they counted the numbers they were speaking french but i wonder how much of the rest of it was was actual french my wife was asleep on the couch i would have asked her she's a french teacher i wanted to wake her up and say you got to watch this sketch but she was gone i'll ask i'll show it to her today and ask it sounded right from my grade nine general French.

So it may be like Google Translate. Who knows?

But it had the right shapes. Yeah. And I think Bowen's a French speaker.

So I think at least Bowen was probably speaking good real. Oh, OK. I think he is. Yeah. Didn't realize that.

Well, Matt and I have failed our Canadian tests here.

For those listening from other places in the world, Canadians are not truly bilingual, even though our country is.

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[3:52] But I digress. Let's start at the start.

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[3:57] And speaking of Canadians, we're going to talk about the original SNL band.

And it's not band leader, but it's musical director. And that is Howard Shore, who is immensely talented.

He played the alto sax in the band, and he, like I said, was the band leader.

But he was, before he came to SNL, he worked with Lorne Michaels and Hart Pomerantz on the Lorne and Hart Terrific Hour. hour.

And when Lauren got SNL, it seemed like a slam dunk for him to come South and work with Saturday Night Live.

To me, his most defining moment in the role is that he wrote the closing.

He wrote Waltz in D, is it D minor?

Waltz in A, written by a founding member, Howard Shore.

And And that is something, maybe the only thing other than update that is like lasted the duration of the show.

I'm not as versed in the 80s. I don't know if they ended in Waltz and A, but definitely all the Lorne Michaels era, it ends with that.

And it's always very exciting when you get to hear the bulk of it and you get to see the credits roll and you get to see them mingling on the stage.

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[5:24] Oftentimes here in Canada, when it aired on global TV, they would cut it off and you wouldn't see much of anything.

But now for some reason, you get to see it all.

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[5:35] Uh, do you guys have any feelings about that original music director in that original band?

I'm going to get into more detail in a moment, but I'm just curious if you guys have any sort of thoughts or feelings.

We talked a little bit about this concept in the Don Pardo episode from last season, Matt and I, but it's just branding.

And you touched on it, JD, like the Waltz and A and all of that, like the SNL band, And even with them playing in between sketches and bumpers and stuff, it all goes toward the branding of the show, the show's identity.

And when talking about Howard Shore, the fact that he created such an iconic piece of music that's obviously stood the test of time.

Like how much aside unless you're one of the more famous cast members or lauren michaels himself it's hard to find somebody who's had such an imprint as far as the identity and branding of the show so right away like he's he's an icon just because of that along with the other like founding members of the snl band but howard shore will highlight at this moment as like the leader So that's what sticks out to me about Howard Shore, specifically his contribution to SNL.

How about you, Matt? Yeah, for me, I feel like he's one of those instrumental components creating the feeling Thomas was saying.

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[7:03] Because that early band was much more involved in the day-to-day operations.

They were. The later bands, because they would play as part of the show.

So you don't get that anymore.

In those early first few seasons, they would do extended musical numbers.

Or like there's this one sketch with Lily Tomlin where the entire band are dressed up as nurses.

That's right. And they do St. James Infirmary Blues.

And it's it's just like they're they're they're a component of those early days, setting the tone, part of the vibe of the entire thing.

Uh and i think it's no small part due to the camaraderie that shore had with the rest of them, that's right the rest of the cast yeah you're gonna mention this jd but also like the ama king b yes i was just gonna go there that's so funny.

Track 2:

[8:16] To Matt's point, they were much more a part of the show.

You have the nurse band, you have the beekeeper outfit.

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[8:28] Not to mention the fact that the band is responsible for creating interstitial music for sketches and even main music for sketches in some cases.

So, I think that that is woven into the fabric of the blueprint or the DNA of SNL at this point.

Even though, you know, more contemporary SNL bands aren't as involved.

Now, I say that having just come off the Kristen Wiig episode where we got a really funny joke from Lenny Pickett.

And that was just, you know, just fantastic.

To steal a page from matt's book and just offer you a little trivia i thought it was very interesting that howard shore gave the name blues brothers to akroyd and belushi he was the one who came up with that term and obviously we know how successful the blues brothers were both on the show and in their feature debut uh you know really good stuff shore moved on from snl and And had a phenomenal career post-SNL, scoring films.

And he scored films all through the 80s. There are some pseudo-notable ones that I don't have written down right now.

But in the early 2000s and late 90s, I think it's late. Is Lord of the Rings late 90s?

Track 2:

[9:57] Or is it early 2000s? I think the first one was early 2000s.

Early 2000s. So it entered production late 90s.

Sure. So he did the score for all three of those movies and the three Hobbit films.

And to me, that is just phenomenal.

He's won three Academy Awards. He's been nominated for Golden Globe Awards.

He has won some Emmy Awards as well.

And he's just all over the place in terms of success. sass.

He's been pursuing music since he was basically eight or nine years old.

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[10:36] At 13 and 14, he became good friends with the young Lorne Michaels in summer camp.

And obviously, we know what happened from there.

Gosh, if I could have been in summer camp with Lorne Michaels, if only, maybe I'd have a different career right now. But I digress.

Any other thoughts on Howard Shore and his influence and importance in the legacy of SNL?

Yeah, I think Howard Shore, and not just him. So I'm looking at like the members of the founding band.

A lot of them were in the Blues Brothers.

So a lot of them played in the Blues Brothers and like role class musicians. You had Paul Schaefer.

That's right. Yeah, involved. And of course, we know Paul Schaefer went on to do he was accredited cast member.

Paul Schaefer at one point. Tom Bones Malone is a really well respected trombone and trumpet player in the music world.

So you have all these world-class musicians, Cheryl Hardwick on keyboards, all these people, super well-respected.

And Howard Shore is like the leader of this group.

But these musicians, and this is going to be a theme throughout our conversation, are just world-class musicians.

Track 2:

[11:52] Do you two know if Shore was responsible for putting, I'm guessing he was, but for putting the band actually together?

Other yeah i would imagine so because i mean that's how it works now uh as reading an interview, uh maddie rice uh the guitarist and she was talking about how lenny the audition it was sort of like the their version of the lauren michaels the musician's version of the lauren michaels audition where he just sort of sits there dead faced kind of thing but yeah like so i i would assume like he's just going around and getting the best of the best of these musicians that.

Track 2:

[12:31] At that point, it's a regular gig, good money.

So for the 70s, that's a nice enticement to a lot of musicians, I'm sure.

You're in New York. You're in New York, yeah. So you have ample opportunity to go to a live venue and play during the week if you're not rehearsing.

Almost like the stand-ups and the sketch artists on SNL. Very similar through-line there. That's interesting, Matt. Yeah.

Well, shall we move forward? Shore was there, I guess, from the inception through 1979.

Track 2:

[13:05] So he left when everybody else left, including Lorne Michaels.

There were two band leaders in the early 80s, one that only lasted a year, I want to say.

Yeah. And one that was three or four years on top of that.

And then Lorne came back. so kenny vance succeeded howard shore as the musical director but kenny vance right he was only there basically probably just when gene dumanian was there as the producer so i think maybe when dick ebersole came uh some of the retooling that they did uh i imagine uh affected kenny vance as well as musical director but then they replaced him with the aforementioned tom Tom Bones Malone, who was in the original SNL band that Howard Shore was musical director of.

So Tom Bones Malone from 81 to 85 was the musical director.

Not that much on Tom Bones Malone. I just know you always hear that name as far as when you talk about great respected musicians.

Track 2:

[14:10] The name Tom Bones Malone is one that I remember people always talking about.

Out but so it was kenny vance from 80 to 81 and tom malone from 81 to 85 i don't know much about that period i just know tom bones if he got bones as a nickname yeah no it's tom bones malone he's like and speaks to the quality of the music those original musicians uh he played multiple instruments aside from trombone he played saxophone trumpet tuba flute bass guitar.

Track 2:

[14:42] Oh like he could be half the band if and i mean that that was all these musicians were these multi-instrumentalist talent powerhouses um so so yeah it's just it's amazing again like i think that period is sort of like a weird dark period in a lot of ways where a lot of that doesn't make it out kind of like a black hole of saturday night live but it's a little bit yeah yeah tougher to to find information on that era.

So that brings us to a member, I want to say he was a member of Tom Bones Malone, his troupe.

You guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but he became bandleader, and that is G.E.

Smith, and we're going to pass the torch to Thomas on this one.

Track 2:

[15:27] Yeah, so they were doing retooling, so Dick Ebersole left, and so Lorne Michaels came back to the show in 1985, so they're doing a lot of retooling.

That was the year, you know, Robert Downey Jr., Anthony Michael Hall, we saw Lovitz and Nora Dunn and Dennis Miller come into this season, but just a lot of reshuffling and new energy into the show.

So that's the season that G.E. Smith started as the musical director of the Saturday Night Live band.

I don't know, Jamie, that he was in previous iterations. I think he's a Lorne guy.

Okay. And he knows Lorne because G.E. Smith, he was married to Gilda Radner for a couple years in the early 80s. So he got to know Lorne that way.

And we've seen, obviously, now that Lorne hires people who he knows and trusts.

That's a really big factor. So you're right. Right. If I had married Gilda Radner in the early 80s, I might have a different career path as well.

Track 2:

[16:31] But as it stands, G.E. Smith's the one who married Gilda Radner.

So he became SNL bandleader in 1985.

But G.E. Smith, if you've ever heard him speak, he has the blues in his blood.

He's like a true blues man, the way he speaks and just his cadence.

And you could tell he plays the blues when you listen to G.E. Smith talk.

He did a really great episode, I'm going to say probably around when COVID first came up with Marc Maron. He was on WTF with Marc Maron. Oh.

Yeah. So he and Marc Maron just geeked out about music because Marc's a guitar player.

And so he and G.E. Smith just geeked out about the blues and, oh, what about this musician? What about this guy and that guy?

And so it was like two music blues geeks. Oh, that's great. So you can tell, you can feel it in G.E.

Smith's blood that he's a blues man. He started playing guitar when he was four years old.

Track 2:

[17:26] He started kind of learning cursory notes when he was four.

Yeah. And by seven, he actually got like a friend of the family gifted him a really good, like the nice starter acoustic guitar.

So G.E. Smith's been playing since he was a really tiny kid.

You could tell he's just a he's just such a prodigy. That's what he was. He was a prodigy.

Yeah. When he was a kid, man, he's he's he's just he's gotten his blood.

And he said something to Marion that I thought was interesting. and it says a lot about G Smith's musical style so he said in in talking about the Beatles and the Stones and stuff he said he respected the Beatles he liked the Beatles but it was the Rolling Stones and the Kinks he said that really like motivated him as far as music goes so that's just where he's coming from like he likes the Beatles but he's like a Stones guy so I think that could say a lot about a musician when they state that like which way they lean you know what what I'm saying he has more stones in him he ended up working with Mick Jagger which is probably was probably cool for him but does that make sense like like you get to kind of tell when a musician says I like the Beatles but like I had like the stones more in me absolutely and that he mentions the kinks too yeah I can add that vibes with me or I'm like yeah yeah I get a kinks energy.

Track 2:

[18:46] Yeah, so this guy is just a true blue musician. He played with Hall & Oates.

He was on some of Hall & Oates' biggest records from 79 through the mid-80s.

G.E. Smith was... So that's what he was doing in the early 80s.

He was mainly playing and touring with Hall & Oates.

He's done albums with Tom Waits, Mick Jagger, Carly Simon, Buddy Guy, Bob Dylan.

Track 2:

[19:09] Worked closely with David Bowie and Roger Waters. I mean, this guy has been around.

That's what he loves. He loves playing. He's made a lot of connections, very well respected.

Track 2:

[19:19] And we talk about branding, you guys. And I know, JD, I'm pretty sure this is when you started watching, was around the mid-80s. Maybe when Phil Hartman and Carvey and Lovitz and those guys.

G.E. Smith, to me, was part of the fabric of the show. They would even build G.E. Smith and the Saturday Night Live band.

And watching him, the dude with the blonde ponytail, just shredding on the guitar.

Guitar like he was to me as a viewer part of like that branding he was part of like the essence of the show i don't know if either of you felt that way watching that era of snl absolutely every time they cut to commercial you just see him wailing away on that guitar uh with these incredible licks and it's just yeah that was just the moment and it's like i that early ge smith you know saturday night live band is like i couldn't at that time i couldn't have imagined it i can almost hear don pardo saying it ge smith on the 70 my wife the way he said ge smith it was like it felt like it meant something i don't know here's something nitpicky do we know what ge stands for oh george edward george edward smith oh it's cooler george edward dad actually oh let's say that again george edward haddad.

Track 2:

[20:43] Yeah, his dad's side of the family is Lebanese. Oh, wow.

So, yeah, so he grew up kind of like culturally Lebanese in a lot of ways, G.E. Smith did. That's fascinating.

Yeah, so like a real cultured guy, a lot of influences, has worked, like I said, with so many people.

People uh he says and he gives he gives credit to a lot of people that were in the his band at snl because he tells he tells marin that he just wanted to keep up with these amazing musicians, so he's like that that's just what you know that that's he said that was my role in the band i was kind of like the leader but like these were world class he's like snl had the budget he said this is a big show they had the budget to get these amazing musicians so he's like i felt every week like i just had to keep up man well he gives a lot of credit he gives a lot of credit to uh to the other people uh that were in the snl band at the same time and i'm looking and um yeah it was guys like george young i know he's a he's a pretty respected player earl gardner who was there forever he started with ge smith all these really great uh great musicians matt chamberlain that That blew my mind when I read that.

Yeah, he was probably best known for Pearl Jam, but he's been drummer for a lot of bands. Soundgarden?

Track 2:

[22:05] Soundgarden, yeah. He was, from 91 to 92, he was part of G.E.

Smith's band a little bit.

We'd see David Johansson as Buster Poindexter make appearances every now and then in that era.

Track 2:

[22:18] So, yeah, G.E. Smith really gives a lot of credit to other musicians, the people in his band.

Even though he was the one that was billed and people just think of G.E.

Smith from that era, he really is very complimentary of all the musicians that he got to work with on SNL.

There seems to be a through line here so far that these band leaders put together these world-class bands to play one night a week for 90 minutes. Yeah, right.

Probably the best gig going. Yeah, what a great gig. Yeah.

Well, from GE Smith, we go to...

The longest running, the Kenan of band leaders.

I don't know that anyone will surpass his record at this point because I don't know when he's leaving even.

But this brings us to Lenny Pickett and his cohort at times that I'm sure Matt is going to get into here.

Based on a Facebook post I read earlier today. Yes. Well, Lenny was one of those 1985 hires. So he came in at the same time as G.E. Smith.

Track 2:

[23:34] He was co-musical director with Cheryl Hardwick, who founding band member.

She was co-musical director with G.E. Smith.

She was in the band until 1995 when she retired at the end of season 25.

So, I mean, she was the last member of the founding band.

But so you get this i think that's why there's such a through line in the psychology of the band leaders because you had members of that original band all through the years up until you know 95 like just a little over you know a little under a decade ago so you you've got like just the psychology and it is a very music forward psychology uh you've got going on like He's a former member of Tower of Power, R&B funk band, amazing.

He led their horn section before joining the SNL band.

Track 2:

[24:30] He's entirely self-taught. This is a guy who picked up his instruments as a kid and just taught himself, except for a brief period where he went to work with a particular musician for less than a year.

So I don't even really count that. So he's learned everything on his own.

He went to study with Burt Wilson, a jazz musician, for a short time.

But he can also play clarinet, flute, as well as the alto saxophone.

He's considered a virtuoso of the altissimo register.

This is a technique where you can just change your position of your tongue and the shape of your throat and make your saxophone play way outside of its register so he'll you'll key like a b flat and you'll get a high f that kind of thing like totally outside of the range so that's why he gets this incredible performance out of his uh out of his saxophone because he's like pushing it beyond the limits but you know.

Track 2:

[25:37] He's performed with the greats. He's also performed with Paul and Oates.

He performed with David Bowie as well.

Aaron Neville, Katy Perry, Talking Heads. He was recently a part of Love This Giant, an album by David Byrne and St. Vincent.

So he played saxophone. Wild.

So, I mean, he's still a vibrant, powerful musician.

He surrounded himself with, if we look at this, his current band, they're all veterans at this point there's only a couple of people who are relatively new uh you know leon uh pendarvis keyboard since 1980 he predate he's like predates the you know the band leader uh alex foster 85 uh steve turay trombone 85 christine olman vocals since 91 sean pelton drums since 92.

Valerie Naranjo, you see like rocking out back there every every episode.

95 James Keenis 2000.

Ron Blake, he's on baritone sax 2005.

Track 2:

[26:50] Toughest Zimbabwe keyboard since 2010.

And then you have Maddie Rice, a guitarist that I mentioned earlier, and Summer DeMarco, who's on trumpet both 20 and 20 and 2022 respectively so for the most part these are band members who are seasoned respected and talented musicians um and it's like an incredible like i was doing a little bit of digging into their process and i have to say in a in some ways they have it harder than the sketch comedians because they don't generally come in during the week they come in on saturday day.

Track 2:

[27:29] Sometimes they'll do a bit of a rehearsal on Friday if it's a complex piece, like a big piece.

But they work with Elijah Bruggeman. He's the sketch musical director.

And he will collaborate like Rice was talking about, the Tampon Farm sketch, where Kate actually laid down a guitar track.

But it was you know it's not professional quality because she's just a home guitar player so she came over and played over that and sort of expanded the composition but they did that on thursday so it's like she just came in listened to the track and just sort of noodled something over top of it and uh but yeah like they will come in they'll they'll start rehearsal on friday a Saturday and then be ready for dress.

Track 2:

[28:26] So it's just like, there's no time there. And like those sketches are so tight.

Like you look at the sketches just past weekend, you had multiple sketches where you've got this intense musical number or, or some of the classic sketches where, where you've got music feature very prominently.

No, they've had a day to figure that out is like, this is why you have the best of the best on that band.

Track 2:

[28:52] Yeah they i noticed snl especially this season in season 49 they like to do one sketches where a character gives a dramatic monologue and then you hear like the dramatic music playing in the background so yeah so a lot of i don't think a lot of people realize that in in most of these sketches that require music that's the band that's like the house band playing in a lot of these sketches so it's not just like oh we're gonna play uh in between commercials or we're gonna play the good nights or or whatever like they're like involved in sketches i think that's a really good thing to bring up pros pros they are absolutely pros pros and very well deserving of this prestigious award the don pardo award that we will be presenting every season uh so far the list is short it's don pardo and the snl band any final thoughts on the snl band gentlemen i'm curious who you think might be good for the like when lenny retires to take over the reins hmm.

Track 2:

[30:01] This is almost, I mean, this is almost harder than Who Replaces Lorne, because with Lorne, it's a short list.

But like we could, if I knew anything about, you know, jazz music in New York and, you know, R&B music in New York, I would have a couple names for you.

But I don't. So I don't even have any names.

Thomas? Yeah, I wonder if SNL would do something like want to pry like John Batiste or something from his Stephen Colbert gig.

Oh, wow. So here's the thing. Maddie was in that band. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, Maddie came from that band. I kind of feel like she's being lined up because she's featured more and more prominently in the transitions and stuff.

She's also a multi-instrumentalist. she's young so she can she's sort of got the vibe for the modern sound but also, jazz musician and guitarist so she has that respect for the old ways as well as the new ways I think she'd be a good fit to sort of transition a new era because I don't Lenny would leave before season 50 but you know like if there was a new new guard let's say were to take over I think that would be a good fit because it's it's a legacy.

Track 2:

[31:25] How old is Pickett? When he turned 31, 31, he was born at 31.

She. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Lenny Pickett.

Lenny is he was born in 1956.

OK. No. Yeah. Lenny's turning 70 in three days, actually, on April 10th.

So as we're recording this, Lenny's going to be he's 70 when this when this. Yeah. April 10th, 1954.

Sorry. Yeah. So he might be. Yeah. No, I think Matt brings up a good point about Matty Rice, though. Matty. Yeah. Yeah, Maddie's 30, 31.

Track 2:

[31:57] She could be next in line to follow, to succeed Lenny Pickett, for sure.

She did a good interview with Vulture earlier this year.

That was the interview that I think Matt was referencing, was her Vulture interview.

So yeah, she used to play in John Batiste's Stay Human house band for Stephen Colbert.

My wife and I, a few years ago, went and saw a taping of Stephen Colbert.

Dana Carvey was on that. So that was like, as an SNL fan, that was pretty special.

So I got to see Maddie and John Batiste and do their thing.

It's interesting about Maddie Rice is, and it's kind of unfortunate too, but she was almost at the center of a really, really unfortunate nonsensical discussion online.

Imagine that, a nonsensical discussion online.

Line but people were focusing in on if she laughed or not during the monologue and her reactions during the monologue and i think she even came out and said i've seen a lot of these jokes in this monologue like this is probably the third or fourth time that i've seen it so she said she doesn't want to like do fake laughter so she's like these are just kind of my it's not no offense against the host or whoever's doing the monologue but it's just so it was just very weird like yeah Yeah. Focusing on Maddie Rice's reaction.

Track 2:

[33:15] And to be fair to her, most of the other band are pretty deadpan during that, too, because they don't want to they don't want to telegraph stuff.

Yeah. They want to, you know. Right. And J.D.

Track 2:

[33:34] Right. So so what you want to refresh people's memories about that?

Yeah, well, it was interesting. Kristen came up for her monologue.

And before she monologued, she said, you know what?

I haven't talked to the band in a while. Toughest on keys. How you doing?

Sean on drums. How about you?

Great. Lenny on sax. How you doing? I'm OK.

And it was something that we just have not seen before on the show in that manner.

So it was really, for a show that is 49 years old to do something it hasn't done before is pretty incredible.

And I think that's why we pointed it out to each other earlier today, because it does seem sort of shocking in a sense.

But it just goes to show you how important this group of people truly are, that they can, you know, take us to a commercial break.

Oftentimes, when there's not enough time for another sketch, we get a commercial break, and then we come back to an interstitial, and then another commercial break before we go to Walt's and A.

Track 2:

[34:45] So that is this year's Don Pardo Award winner.

We have some exciting news as well.

As you're listening to this, we are opening voting today, and voting will run through the 17th of May, at which time we will do some tabulation, and then we will present with you the Monday episode that will reveal Season 5's SNL Hall of Fame.

Gentlemen, it has been an absolute pleasure for Matt Ardill and Thomas Senna. I'm JD.

Track 2:

[35:23] Do me a favor on your way out as you pass the weekend update exhibit.

Turn out the lights because the SNL Hall of Fame is now closed.

We're back and this week we're discussing former SNL writer and multi-hyphenate Conan O'Brien!

Sometimes there are sketches that are mysterious and other times you just recognize the voice and tone and Conan is one of those writers.

Does that make him a Hall of Famer? We'll have to see...

If you've got questions about the show or would like to be a guest on an episode in the future please reach out - jamie@snlhof.com

You can follow and support the show through discussion and sharing in all the usual places. Twitter - @SNLHOF Web - snlhof.com

The SNL Hall of Fame is back and this week I'm joined by Dave Voigt of In the Seats to discuss Paul McCartney.

Let's start off by saying, the man was freaking Beatle!

It's so lovely to see him taking part in SNL and becoming such a big part of its lore, but does that mean he's a Hall of Famer? We'll have to wait and see...

If you've got questions about the show or would like to be a guest on an episode in the future please reach out - jamie@snlhof.com

You can follow and support the show through discussion and sharing in all the usual places. Twitter - @SNLHOF Web - snlhof.com

This week on the SNL Hall of Fame podcast, Jamie is joined by Senior TV writer at Collider.com Liz Shannon Miller.

They discuss the career and highlights of Lily Tomlin and her appearances on SNL.

Does she beloing in the SNL Hall of Fame? Stay tuned!

If you've got questions about the show or would like to be a guest on an episode in the future please reach out - jamie@snlhof.com

You can follow and support the show through discussion and sharing in all the usual places. Twitter - @SNLHOF Web - snlhof.com

We're back again and this week we are celebrating the career of the late Norm Macdonald.

I'm joined by writer Andy Hoglund of @SNLinReview to discuss Norm and the impact that he had on the show despite only sticking around a couple of years.

From Update to Burt Reynolds to Bob Dole, Norm brought his A-game week in and week out, but is it enough to land a spot in the SNL Hall of Fame? Time will tell.

If you've got questions about the show or would like to be a guest on an episode in the future please reach out - jamie@snlhof.com

You can follow and support the show through discussion and sharing in all the usual places. Twitter - @SNLHOF Web - snlhof.com

This week on the SNL Hall of Fame podcast, I'm joined by John Murray of the SNL Afterparty podcast!

John outlines the bona fides of Tina Fey the writer, performer, and guest.

Do you agree with John or will she be in tough to get in the Hall on her first try?

Stick around to find out.

You can find SNL Afterparty @SNLPodcast

If you've got questions about the show or would like to be a guest on an episode in the future please reach out - jamie@snlhof.com

You can follow and support the show through discussion and sharing in all the usual places. Twitter - @SNLHOF Web - snlhof.com

This week on the SNL Hall of Fame podcast I am joined by Ryan McNeil from the matinee.ca to discuss his nominee, Prince!

Despite missing a large chunk of time between appearances in 8H Ryan makes the case that Prince absolutely belongs in the Hall.

In the end, however, it's all up to you when the time comes to vote. So sit back and enjoy the discussion Ryan and I have and make up your own mind.

If you've got questions about the show or would like to be a guest on an episode in the future please reach out - jamie@snlhof.com

You can follow and support the show through discussion and sharing in all the usual places. Twitter - @SNLHOF Web - snlhof.com

Join Thomas, Matt, and jD as they welcome Ashley Bower to the show to discuss the shoo-in candidacy of Kate McKinnon. Do you agree she'll end up in the Hall. Time will tell.

Transcript:

Track 2:

[0:42] Hey, it's J.D. here, and thank you so much, Doug DeNance, for that warm welcome.

We are thrilled to be back here in the SNL Hall of Fame.

Before we go anywhere, take a look at that mat outside that says, Wipe your feet, sucka.

And wipe your feet, sucka. So there's that.

Listen, I'm going to get right to it. The SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair where each episode we take a deep dive Dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest, or writer and add them to the ballot for your consideration.

Once the nominees have been announced, we turn to you, the listener, to vote for the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined for perpetuity in the hall.

And that's how we play the game. It's just that simple.

Track 2:

[1:30] So, you're chomping at the bit to get voting. You've only got one more week to wait.

If you are listening to this in real time, May the 6th is the date that we will be starting the voting and it will run through to May 17th, at which point we will tabulate the ballots and we'll check in with you on May 20th for our finale extravaganza and let you know who made the Season 5 SNL Hall of Fame. name.

It's going to be interesting. And today's nominee is about to throw a monkey wrench in all your plans because, well, let's go to Matt Ardill because I've got a question to ask Mr. Ardill.

Matt, my friend, I hope you're doing well. I have a question for you.

Track 3:

[2:22] Where do you start with a girl named Kate?

I don't know. There's so much, there's so much Such an incredible talent.

I'm just going to have to start at the beginning. I guess that's all I can do.

Go for it. All right. Kate McKinnon, height 5'3", born January 6, 1984.

78 acting credits, 4 writing credits, 5 soundtrack credits, and 1 producer credit.

She was born in Seacliff, New York, and attended Columbia University.

University uh growing up she had a pet iguana and she attended ucb in ucb manhattan school and uh yeah she grew up in a funny house full of funny people she and her sister were encouraged to watch mel brooks the producers on a weekly basis always watched snl growing up uh she thought Madeline Kahn was the tops and that that's a fact.

You can't argue with that.

That is, that is a.

Track 3:

[3:24] Great choice. Yeah, yeah. Now, her parents, they encouraged her to approach the world through the lens of comedy.

Now, Funny runs in the family. Her younger sister, Emily Lynn, is also a comedian and does stand-up and is part of a comedy double act with Jackie Abbott. Check her out on YouTube.

Super funny. Unfortunately, their father passed away when Kate was quite young, at the age of 18.

Track 3:

[3:51] But that didn't slow her down. She's a multi-instrumentalist, able to play piano, cello, and guitar.

She can also speak three languages, English, French, and German. She makes me sick.

Yeah. Well, that explains why her prime minister is such a good impression, because she can actually speak German.

Right, yeah. It's not just making the noises.

She knows the language. Her first job was as a little league umpire, but she left because she didn't actually know the rules for little league baseball, which is, you know, that's fair. No, it's foul.

Yeah, it's foul. It's foul. She was PETA's sexiest vegan in 2017, but she actually gave that up that title because she just like a true New Yorker missed cheese pizza.

Pizza um now she is an extreme introvert which she deals with by adopting funny voices uh which honestly sounds like 72.4 of the comedians i know her comedy heroes were molly shannon anna gasteyer.

Track 3:

[5:03] She says Kellyanne Conway, but that's obviously a joke because you can't ever give a straight answer like that.

Her dream role, and this is another one I would pay good money to see, is Willy Wonka. Oh.

I would have rather seen that than Timothee Chalamet.

Really? Okay. Yeah, I would have loved to have seen her playing Willy Wonka.

Um now before snl she starred in logo's big gay sketch show and uh she took over from the original miss frizzle uh lily tomlin uh who became a professor and a phd and as she started playing miss fiona felicity frizzle uh the original miss frizzle valerie felicity frizzle's younger sister.

Track 3:

[5:52] Oh i watched a lot of magic school bus with my kids yeah it's a great show uh yeah yeah and the thing is you think with this great education and all this like higher learning she would be you know a muckety muck when it comes to the comedy she finds enjoyable but honestly she said thing says one of the funniest things is a fart wow it's the ultimate bad thing a person can do and you know farts are funny they just they just are this is two weeks in a row you brought farts to the table well i mean it is comedy there you can't really get away from from a good fart um oh so whoopee cushion is a very funny thing if executed properly whoopee cushion and a rubber chicken comedy staples that's right yeah so that's that is uh that is Kate McKinnon.

Track 3:

[6:46] Well, I think that, um, we should head downstairs and listen in on the conversation this week. Excellent.

All right. Take it away, Thomas and Ashley Bauer.

Track 4:

[7:27] All right. Thank you so much, JD and Matt. Yes, we are talking about a very recent SNL cast member, the most recent cast member that we've ever talked about on this show.

This is her first season of eligibility, and I'm so excited to honor the great Kate McKinnon and see if she can make it past the voters, see if she can get into the SNL Hall of Fame.

So to chat about Kate McKinnon is somebody who I go back with for over 20 years.

We've known each other almost 20, probably 21, 22 years now.

We've known each other quite a long time. And SNL was actually one of the things that we really bonded over, my guest and I.

And if she slips and calls me Tom, that's how you know that somebody really knows me.

Because, you know, I kind of go by Thomas and here and there, you know. But if somebody calls me Tom on this podcast, that's how you know that we go back.

So my guest today, Ashley Bauer, if Ashley calls me Tom, then we've known each other for over 20 years.

But Ashley, thank you so much for joining me here on the SNL Hall of Fame. How are you doing?

Thank you, Tom. You're right. I can't even imagine calling you Thomas. That's so funny.

Track 4:

[8:45] But no, I'm great. I'm so excited. Yeah, like you said, this is how we bonded.

And oh my gosh, talking about Kate McKinnon.

I can't be happier. year yeah we really bonded I remember talking about because it was like probably about 2002 2003 that we became friends and we remember we really talked about like the Will Ferrell Sherry Oteri kind of years that was like the cast that that we always laughed about and shared sketches and stuff so I remember having a lot of conversations about those people but I never really knew or maybe forgot because it's been such a long time like your SNL fan origin story so why Why don't you let us know how you became a fan and what cast might have got you into it? What's your SNL origin story?

Oh my gosh, yeah. So I grew up, my parents always had some sort of comedy type show on.

And I remember being pretty young and my dad had on like...

It must have been like a repeat episode or something of like a really old original SNL.

Like I'm talking like Gilda Radner, like Jane Curtin.

And I kind of just sat down to watch it with him. And I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah.

This is kind of funny. Even though I was like kind of young and the humor probably went way over my head.

Track 4:

[10:01] So those are kind of my earliest memories, but I think when I really fell in love and like the light bulb went off that this isn't my parents show anymore.

Like this is my show was, they started to let me watch them when it was Adam Sandler and Chris Farley and David Spade.

And of course, I may have been like, eight, nine, 10 years old.

So the slapstick comedy humor of, you know, Chris Farley, especially his physical comedy just had me in stitches.

And I think that was the lightbulb moment. And when I really became obsessed.

And I remember being, I can still picture this today, however many years later, standing in line at a grocery store and looking over and seeing the tabloids when Chris Farley passed away. And I just started to cry.

And my mom was like, what's wrong? And I was so devastated when I learned that he had OD'd.

And again, I was maybe 10, 11 years old.

And that always kind of struck, hits me in my memory of, I think that's when I realized it was more than just a show I liked, that I was you know kind of borderline obsessed I felt like these comedians were like you know my friends so.

Track 4:

[11:12] But yeah, I guess that's probably one of my favorite casts, again, for sure, because I think that's when SNL really, you know, kind of transitioned into my show.

But like you said, too, you know, gosh, it's hard to compare that that cast to like Will Ferrell, Sherry O'Terry, Molly Shannon.

And, you know, when they started to kind of overlap with Tina Fey and Jimmy Fallon and it kind of started to mesh into that newer generation.

Track 4:

[11:37] Gosh, it's kind of hard to top that that cast, if you ask me.

Yeah i always remember us talking about like will ferrell and anna gasteyer the culps so that i think i think that was one of the ones that we would always laugh about was like all the all the mashups and sharing videos that we found in youtube was even was even around when we when you and i were chatting about snl so we probably had downloaded sketches from like uh limewire or whatever i was just gonna say that i think we shared omia on limewire or like Napster or whatever, you know, that's definitely aging us a bit.

Yeah, totally. So, yeah, so I know that, but that's interesting to me because I always associated you, yeah, with like Will Ferrell and Sherry O'Terry and those people.

But yeah, you do go back to like Chris Farley and Sandler.

And so that's awesome. Most of us SNL geeks remember watching when we were eight or nine years old, sometimes seeing sketches that maybe we shouldn't have been seeing at eight or nine years old.

Track 4:

[12:33] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it helped form form our comedy palettes and our love for SNL. So, so that's awesome. Thanks.

Thanks for sharing. So our friends over at the Saturday Night Network, they did like a cast member countdown.

So they went like, one through 50 talked about and John Schneider, the Lorne Michaels, essentially of the SNN, he kept asking this question, or he asked the question, like, you know, if you were to build a cast member in a lab, what would it look like?

Or was this person and built for SNL.

So that got me wondering, I'm interested in your perspective on this.

Like if you had to create an SNL cast member in a lab, actually, like what traits would you give that cast member?

Oh my gosh. You know, I'm such an SNL nerd.

So I've actually thought about this before. I know what you're talking about.

I saw that, that post in that episode.

I mean, I think it goes without saying, obviously the improv skills, even, you know, I don't think you necessarily have to come from, you know, the Groundlings or Second City or anything like that.

But I think just the ability to...

Track 4:

[13:39] Be able to go with the flow and take something and not be stuck to a script.

I think having that trait, I think being a good writer too, I think understanding how a sketch is created, even if you don't necessarily write that one for yourself, but understanding, I think, the science behind it and what your writer wants you to contribute to that sketch, I think is a really good trait.

I remember seeing an interview too, too.

I think it was with Ana Gasteyer, actually, like you were mentioning and talking about, like musical abilities and how, you know, being on a show like Saturday Night Live, you don't necessarily have to be like a Mariah Carey or a Beyonce type singer who's really good, but just enough to kind of make it through a sketch.

And I think Ana Gasteyer again, like with you know, the cults and anything else where she would have to sing, it was just good enough to get by and make it funny.

So I've always thought I agreed with that assessment that having some sort of musical ability, you know, to make it through a good sketch and execute it. Timing.

I mentioned, you know, I really liked the physical comedy and physicality of Chris Farley.

But even if you don't throw yourself into a wall or a table like he did.

Track 4:

[14:58] I think Molly Shannon did a really good job of that.

You know, Mary Catherine Gallagher would throw herself into something but um sally o'malley would even just stretch and pull her waistband up and i think just knowing whatever little physical ticks your character would have i think really kind of makes that more well-rounded you're not just reciting you know a line or like i said a script for a sketch but you're really creating a person and i always thought that was kind of fun.

Track 4:

[15:25] Um something that i think kate our girl kate was really good at was having zero modesty i think I think you have to be able to not take yourself too seriously and be okay looking like a fool on live TV.

That's such a good point. I never thought of it that way as far as having zero modesty. But you're actually super right.

That type of commitment to the character and the bit.

And I know over the years, oftentimes there's cast members that come along and something doesn't feel right about the fit of the cast member.

And I think a lot of times it's that they seem self-conscious up there and it makes me feel bad for them.

And I don't want to feel bad for somebody who I'm watching on SNL.

I want them to be completely confident and I want to feel like as a viewer, I'm in good hands with the person on screen.

And sometimes I don't get that with certain cast members over the years.

And those seem to be the ones that kind of like peter out as far as cast members.

But you're right like it's just like that lack of.

Track 4:

[16:31] Being self-conscious, like, you know, the lack of modesty, the, the commitment.

And I think our subject today, Kate McKinnon exemplifies that to a T along with like a lot of the other traits that you mentioned, like, Hey, she could sing a little bit, right? Ashley.

Track 4:

[16:47] Yeah. Again, I think just, just well enough where you're like, I mean, I'm not, maybe not like a Cecily strong, you know, type where Cecily could actually sing, but, um, I think enough.

And she definitely sunk herself into a character like yeah you're right kate was like maybe one of the least self-conscious cast members that i could ever think of on the show and her physicality was great i mean we'll probably get to all of that but i think if you built a snl cast member in a lab it would look a lot like kate mckinnon honestly yeah no i agree i kind of thought that when i was you know going through my head and thinking about them like wow it sounds like i'm just describing kate you know like this is a shameless plug just for this topic but no like Like I genuinely believe that those are really good traits and that, yeah, she embodied all of them. And I think that's what made her so great.

Yeah. And do you have a recollection of like what your reaction was to Kate when she joined SNL? She joined in 2012.

So it's like April. We're coming up on 12 years almost of when she started on SNL. It was April of 2012.

Do you have any recollection of like what you may have, what some of your first impressions might have been of Kate?

I do actually. And I do this every season. And I always have this, like, cause you really do kind of grow to, to be fond of some of these.

You're right. Maybe not so much the ones that kind of peter out and Lauren gave him a chance and it's like, okay, maybe not.

Track 4:

[18:04] Um, but especially like you said that year, that was when Kristen wig left and she was hired to replace Kristen.

And so I think I was really like, hold on, who do you think you are?

Nobody can come in here and replace Kristen wig. Are you serious?

Is like there's no way anyone's going to be able to top what Kristen did and so I remember being like okay let's let's see what what this girl can do um but her first sketch ever on SNL that Sofia Vergara um Penelope Cruz impression that she did oh my gosh I just remember thinking, holy cow I wouldn't believe that she's a brand new featured player I thought that she embodied such confidence and comfortability in that sketch.

Like she'd been doing it her whole life.

And to be sitting next to such a big star at the time, Sofia Vergara and I'm sorry, I'm laughing because I'm thinking about the sketch, but I thought, wow, okay, she can hang. Maybe this is going to be okay.

And that was kind of my first impression, even though I was kind of, you know, like a mean girl attitude about it at first, like my loyalties to Kristen, not to you. And it's funny to look back because now I say that about.

Track 4:

[19:16] Yeah, exactly. You know, I think a lot of people felt that way.

There were obviously a lot of really hardcore Kristen Wiig fans, even someone like me who she wasn't my total favorite, but I loved her a lot of her characters.

I think Kristen Wiig's an all time all timer.

So having so you do look at somebody like Kate a little bit with like a skeptical eye and it's like, okay, well, you know, it seems like you're the person that they hired to replace Kristen.

I don't know if the show Out and Out said that. I don't know that they would because they don't want to put that in there.

Kind of pressure on her but the optics were such that Kate McKinnon seemed like she got hired to replace Kristen Wiig and so you're gonna look at her skeptically and be like okay well I don't know show us what you got and that Penelope Cruz sketch the Pantene one with uh yeah that with Sophia was just it showed me like the confidence with which Kate sunk herself into this character i must have given the show and snl fans like assurance like she was going to be a keeper on snl i can't imagine that was her first episode too that sofia vergara episode that was kate's first episode the sketch happened later on in the show and it was almost like i couldn't think of a more perfect introduction to somebody that was potentially going to replace a legend than this It's like, what kind of pressure is that for Kate? Gosh.

Track 4:

[20:40] Right. Oh my gosh. Like she could, like you said, we as audience members could have felt so bad for her.

Like, you know, she could have been so nervous and unsure, you know, even with her, you know, prior experience in improv.

I mean, it's so different when you do it, you know, for such a big institution like SNL.

And I think that demonstrated too, because not all SNL cast members have been good impressionists necessarily.

Necessarily um and i think that showed too what her range was going to be that she could come on and do such a big impression again first sketch first show ever and just nail it glossy nice.

Track 4:

[21:22] No no no no no no no penelope it's phytomorphogenesis, refrigerator no no sweetie listen to me it's it's not refrigerator okay say it with me fido fido good morpho morpho genesis jeff bridges no.

Track 4:

[21:44] What i love about kate's impressions too is a lot of times they are like pretty accurate she can do the accurate thing but a lot of them are always maybe 20 20 20 to 25 off kilter like she has that perfect she sprinkles in the perfect amount of caricature for a lot of these impressions and we saw that right away with this penelope cruz the way she was pronouncing things and then she kind of like turned penelope cruz into this sympathetic human kind of person where she kind of says is it it just me am i the only one who thinks that like i'm getting the big words here or you know what's going on like so she kind of turned penelope into this more human like you kind of relate to her like yeah she's right she is getting the hard words isn't she so kate did that little trick right away with with this one yeah it was so genius even then in her first sketch like you know she could have turned penelope into a diva or something but it was just kind of this like nice little timid like um excuse me but are you not seeing this am i the only one who thinks this and i just thought it was so so genius to bring to the sketch yeah that was great season 37 episode 18 kate's first episode on the cast and she already turned in something memorable and that just completely fits what what kate would become on snl so she started her first full season, season 38, that's the post-Kristen Wiig era.

Track 4:

[23:10] What kind of stands out to you, Ashley? Like what should we start with in terms of, of Kate McKinnon's work on SNL?

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Where do you start with somebody like Kate? Um.

Track 4:

[23:22] You know, I think Ellen DeGeneres was one of her big impressions, for sure.

Like you said, doing just enough to nail it, but kind of taking her a little bit over the top and making it a caricature.

Now, as many of you know, this Sunday I am hosting the Oscars.

And I can only hope that somewhere a guy named Oscars hosting the Ellens. I'm kidding.

Track 4:

[23:44] But you know what movie I love this year? Twelve Years a Slave.

Slave that's about how i've been forced to dance on this show every day for the last 12 years, i'm just kidding it's about slavery i'm alan the justin bieber again the mannerisms you know the shrugging of the shoulders and the you know thumb in his nose and um but gosh i think my favorite i lump those two together though and it's kind of it's cool that you started like with those two specifically mentioned those two because i do lump them together the ellen degenerates and the Justin Bieber and you'd mentioned physicality with the performer like you're going to build somebody in the lab you want them to have some sort of physicality and Kate she's not necessarily like like Chris Farley like or Molly Shannon like jumping through sets and tables and and stuff like that with like Ellen and Justin Bieber but she's just doing those little moves like with Ellen it's like how she just kind of contorts her body when she's dancing, Too bad this isn't a video podcast because I'm sitting here like kind of like swaying in my chair.

So only Ashley gets treated to my little chair dance moves here.

But yeah, the way Kate...

Track 4:

[24:57] Moves her body as Ellen, and then I love even her exasperation.

Like, you know, I shouldn't have danced my first episode because now everybody just expects me to dance and I have to do this.

And so she takes that, like, kernel of something about Ellen or something about Justin Bieber and kind of dials it up, puts that absurdity, that caricature on it so perfectly.

It's interesting that I, in my mind, associate Justin Bieber and Ellen DeGeneres.

Those two are kind of almost one of the, they're very different, but I just lumped them together in my mind.

Yeah, no, so epic. You're right. And I think she kind of debuted him around the same time as well.

And I like when she takes, you know, celebrities like that in the impressions.

And regardless of how much kind of they grow and change throughout their careers, I like that she kind of picks an era and kind of keeps the characters that, like, Justin Bieber, no matter how much he grew up, she kind of still played him as this, like, you know, baby heart.

Heartthrob, you know, kind of still a little bit nervous and playing flirty, like throwing the hood up.

It's okay. People can't see me doing my little shoulder shrug either, but, um, throwing the hood up and trying to act all coy.

And I just thought, oh my God, it was so spot on.

Track 4:

[26:06] Yeah. Her Bieber, he, she played him like, uh, she captured the spirit of this young oblivious pop star who's so in love with himself.

And I think that maybe that's the angle that Kate saw. And she just captured that aloof kind of thing about bieber that he just like really loved himself he did those they did those parodies of those calvin klein ads and i think that's where we first saw that seeing kate and tidy whiteys that was hilarious i think that's what you're saying like lack of modesty like she didn't care she she would parade around in tidy whiteys and for a sketch.

Track 4:

[26:42] And go all in. Like, I just, yeah, I love that about her.

And I loved, too, if we're going to keep talking about favorite impressions, her, of course, Ruth Bader Ginsburg impression.

And it makes me think of RBG like that and kind of wish that she was like that in real life.

And I'm, like, convinced myself that that's how she was.

But, you know, I mean, the Ginsburg.

That's just so brilliant. It seems so simple, but I can't tell you how hard I laughed every time she came out on Weekend Update and did Ruth Bader Ginsburg and then would just burn all these people and, again, get up and dance and have the Ginsburg and just be all into it and being this little frail old 80-year-old woman just getting down.

Let's focus. Now, were you swayed by any of the arguments you heard on Tuesday?

Oh, man. They were useless.

Useless. next time I'm just gonna put a crumpled up black cocktail napkin in my place no one will know I'm good the arguments I heard they were so weak I just hope they're not holding up Justice Scalia's chair oh that's a gills burn.

Track 4:

[27:57] Total commitment to to the character and to the bit that's what I always know Kate from her time at SNL as just somebody who just immersed herself into something.

This Ruth Bader Ginsburg was perfect. And this wasn't even...

Her voice was pretty spot on, the squeaky voice, but that was about it.

This was kind of Kate putting on a robe and dancing on Weekend Update, and it was endlessly entertaining. So that's a really good call out.

Track 4:

[28:29] Gosh, I could go on and on. But even not just her impressions, but I think her ability to create an original character, too.

I don't know that you can talk about you know Kate McKinnon potentially being in the hall of fame without talking about Colleen Rafferty in the close encounter sketches like oh my gosh I think I shed tears I laughed so hard during each and every one of those and again yeah the physicality and not just her own lack of modesty but I think forcing those in the sketch with her you know to kind of get up all up close to them and touch them and you know and get up all into their face and usually make them break um but gosh i just thought that was brilliant too to portray you know the third of a trio who clearly did not have the same experience these other people did, these fancy cats are seeing god meanwhile i'm starting phase two which is me sitting on a stool while 40 gray aliens take turns gently batting my knockers in.

Track 4:

[29:32] Did y'all get the knocker stuff? Uh, no. No knocker stuff. Sorry.

And did you feel threatened, Ms. Rafferty? No. No, no, no, no, no.

They were, uh, they were real respectful about it. They were... they were in a line.

And then, uh, one by one, they'd step up, slap a knocker, and then go to end the line, wait for another turn.

Kate, as a performer, you could tell she was like, well, it's not just going to be me that goes to 11, basically.

I'm going to take all of you with me. I'm going to climb on Ryan Gosling.

I'm going to do all this stuff to Liev Schreiber and...

I'm going to bring you all along with me into this absurdity, whether you like it or not.

I'm going to take you with me. That's like a powerful performer right there in Kate.

I never thought about it totally that way, but she just was just such a powerful presence in kind of like a small stature.

But she was so powerful up there on screen.

Track 4:

[30:38] Seriously. And I love this. I know Lauren hates it when they break, but I know the audiences love it.

And especially in those, I mean, yeah, she wouldn't just make Ryan Gosling, you know, completely break down and laugh.

But even like Aidy Bryant and those, you know, conducting the interview just could barely hold it together and ask their simple lines.

So it's just, I think watching her was so great. They couldn't help but get immersed and forget where they were too. And you're at kind of go along with her.

Yeah. Lauren, Lauren's like, oh, we're, uh, we're not the Carol Burnett show.

We don't, uh, we don't do that kind of thing. but I guess it's okay for this one Kate keep doing your thing so that's probably that's probably in my mind what Lauren what Lauren told Kate right there it was a real good Lauren by the way I've been working on I've had like years to kind of like start fine-tuning my Lauren and at some point I'm gonna make all my guests do do their Lauren impression too so oh gosh please don't start with me and I would probably be terrible.

I basically just do Dr. Evil when I try to do Morn.

That's kind of my cheat code for it. I know it's like the worst kept secret that Mike Myers Yeah.

Track 4:

[31:50] This was Colleen Rafferty. Yeah, these close encounters.

Perfectly weird like Kate character. It made me cry with laughter but also honestly made me tear up.

I don't know some sadness some joy some sentimentality because she chose this as her unofficial send-off in her last show for a reason it was yeah it was the cold open, uh in her last show and she did calling rafferty and she did this like send-off where she was gonna go into the spaceship for good well earth, i love you thanks for letting me stay a while.

Track 4:

[32:39] Live from new york it's saturday night, it made me tear up i'm not even afraid to to say it like i was sitting there watching her last episode like what is this salty discharge like i'm i was like kind of crying like did it have that effect on you Ashley oh 100% yeah like you could ask my husband I was in tears because when I was devastated that she was leaving of course because I think Kate became SNL and it was so hard to imagine SNL without her so yeah obviously it was tears of you know just sadness that she was leaving and just that kind of oh trying to have to process that reality but just so brilliant that she chose that and what a way to kind of I love that she had the say in it and And kind of how she laughed on her terms and, and.

Track 4:

[33:29] To give that character that closure too and of course i you know you could tell that kate was tearing up so how could you not i mean yeah what a career like you said um she was on it for so long and um yeah don't don't worry i was absolutely bawling like a baby not even just tears like i was probably sorry yeah i think i think most snl fans like through the hardcore fans were sitting there on their couches crying a little bit another oddball character that i think we need to to bring up with kate she just excelled at playing these really odd i mean there's like probably a laundry list but she did this one nine times uh including her first full season in season 38 she broke broke out uh sheila savage the last call at the bar so so this this is hilarious she says like kate has this gift of saying like the grossest things with such sincerity and confidence, What's your name, sweetie?

It's, uh, it's Sheila Sauvage. You can remember that because if you mix up the letters, it almost spells Vagisil.

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[34:42] What's your handle, brother? They call me Ace Chuggins. Ace, get out!

I'm wearing one of your bandages right now because I ran out of underwear.

Mom, wow. Oh, my gosh. yeah like just the complete lack of inhibition like she did it with what like um dave chapelle louis ck adam sandler um larry david would just go yes oh and keenan's you know like pouring gasoline in his eyes on the side because you're right just these absolutely gross grotesque things coming out of her mouth and what she's doing you know at that bar and for keenan to be that kind of sane person that like, this is not okay.

Like anyone else watching this would be completely tortured by it, but you couldn't help it. Just be me.

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[35:29] At least for me, I get almost in tears laughing just so hard.

I think the one with Dave Chappelle, especially, was one of the best ones.

I just loved, again, like we keep saying about her, she goes all in and she takes it from a 10 to at least an 11, if not higher.

There's certain performers. So there's different classes of performers.

And some were if they're asked to do something like say say these insane gross things be so oddball and out there you could tell that that's against type and as they're performing it there they know that they're playing against type and so they're not all the way committed like that happens a lot of times with hosts so they bring a host on and then they have the host do this weird character maybe like scarlett johansson she's great love scarlett johansson but you could tell maybe sometimes it's scarlet's playing somebody weird that there's maybe an element of her that's almost calls attention to it while she's doing it but kate doesn't you think that this is really kate when when she's playing these characters like it's almost like a dana carvey kind of gift of sinking into a character and not calling attention to it so much Yeah, no, 100%. I think you're right.

Oh my gosh, yeah, Dane is a perfect example of this, where they become so immersed in it.

Track 4:

[36:55] And I love that they don't take themselves too seriously. You're right.

You see it a lot with hosts who just, they're so afraid of being embarrassed or how it's going to look and what the reviews are going to be that you can tell that they're holding back.

And it completely changes the dynamic of that sketch. whereas yeah what Kate goes all in because she doesn't take herself too seriously I think she takes what she does very seriously clearly because she's so brilliant at it but I think that's the key of a good SNL performer is take what you do seriously but not yourself and I think that's why we got such amazing characters that other otherwise you could have walked away from a sketch being like okay wow that was odd why'd they do that and instead you got this oh my gosh what an epic, epic result we got from her yet again.

I love that. What'd you say? Take the work seriously, but not yourself so seriously. Yeah. I love that.

That's almost a perfect way to describe Kate and why maybe a lot of what she did worked on the show because she did find that formula of taking the work seriously, but letting herself go in the process. That's such a great way to put that.

Ashley, I love it. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I just, to me, that just seemed like the best way to describe it, because there's no way she could have done what she did if she took anything about herself seriously.

Track 4:

[38:15] Yeah, yeah. One last oddball character that I think about, too, is her, DeBette Goldry, the old, the actor, the actress from old Hollywood.

Who's always on these panels sharing matter-of-fact anecdotes about how women were treated back then.

What do you think is still holding women back?

I think there are all these tiny little things. Like, you've got to change your hair to fit your type.

Yeah, and you have to act a certain way so you don't get labeled as difficult.

Yeah, you gotta eat arsenic to make your skin pale.

What? Well, yeah, I mean, Samuel Goldwyn had a rule that all of his starlets had to eat arsenic tablets to make their skin glow.

And then they discovered it made us, um, I'm sorry, what is the word? Psychotic.

So to calm us down, they'd send in the monkey with a tray of opium, you know how it goes.

Track 4:

[39:09] That works because Kate is so matter-of-fact. as a performer about how she's sharing this awful stuff about what would happen to actresses in the whole of Hollywood.

Right. Yeah. And it would have been so easy for that to have too closely mirrored Colleen Rafferty of, you know, trying to deliver this deadpan of all these horrible, ridiculous things.

But that was such a different character. And it made you think it was a totally different concept again, because she was just so great at, again, the accent and her delving into that character made you believe you were talking to this old timey Hollywood actress.

And, you know, when the interview is over and she's like, OK, I know what that means. And she starts undressing to lay on the table.

Track 4:

[39:49] It's kind of it could go right up to a point where you almost feel uncomfortable because there's probably way too much truth to that.

But to that reality, but in a way that still lets you laugh at an otherwise very unfortunate reality.

Reality yeah she's talking about things like forced marriages and tranquilizers being like just all sorts of very vivid descriptions of what what it must have been like and she just totally this like said and then she looks at the other people i think jen remember jennifer aniston being being on one or amma stone i think they were on actually the same one and she's just kind of looking at them like what that just what that's that's how it was like like am i right ladies like yeah am i right like you can relate that way probably yeah yeah yeah that's such a perfect kate like oddball character and she i think she did that four times it was toward more toward like her later the later half of her snl career but we love those and i speaking of like the almost later half of her snl career i think she had kate had a lot of things working against her as far as the era that she worked in because she was saddled with a lot of thankless roles because around 2016 Trump era hit unfortunately and it had a weird effect on comedy and SNL as well so I think Kate.

Track 4:

[41:19] Was almost i don't know doing sketch comedy with like weights attached to her in some ways with having to do political figures but ashley i don't know if you agree with this i think she did the best she could i think she did a really good job with a lot of potentially thank thankless political roles no i 100 agree you're right it's such a you know there's been unfortunately times in our country where it's is hey is it okay to laugh and i think snl has always been brilliant about reminding us as a country that it's okay to do that.

Um, even when you otherwise don't feel like you should.

And I think for, you know, a lot of people that Trump era was really jarring.

And I know sometimes I've commented, gosh, is this too real to be funny?

It's almost, it's not even satire anymore. This is real. But I think Kate was such a breath of fresh air through that.

Track 4:

[42:12] And I think by giving, I mean, they, she didn't just do, you know, female impressions. I know we talked about Justin Bieber, But she did Jeff Sessions and Rudy Giuliani.

And again, just turned to these people that were certainly not very likable or well liked by most of the country and just made you laugh at the ridiculousness of it.

And I think reminded people that it was okay to do that.

And kind of like, okay, good. Yeah, this is ridiculous, right?

Like, she's kind of highlighting, you know, the ridiculousness to what was going on in a way that I think made us not so scared anymore. more.

And you're right, that could have really gone either way, I think, depending on the temperature of our country and were people ready to laugh at it.

And I think Kate just had that knack of making it successful and getting us through that era.

Track 4:

[43:03] Yeah, I think she did the correct thing as far as you take like Jeff Sessions, Rudy Giuliani. Those are great examples.

She didn't try to do spot on impressions, like maybe a little bit, certainly with the accents and things like that.

But then she she inserted she tried to find the right angle to make it a unique impression, but also kind of roast those people. So like with Jeff Sessions, she played him like a possum.

And she even, I mean, she made that obvious.

I think there was even one time where Sessions was on maybe Weekend Update or a sketch and she had him eating like something like a possum would, like a rodent.

So that's how she decided to play Jeff Sessions as this like rodent type of squirrely kind of character.

And I think that was the perfect way to go about it. Do you really not remember meeting with George Papadopoulos about Russia?

Well, you know, Colin, I've had some memory problems stemming from a childhood trauma.

A childhood trauma? What was that?

The passing of the Civil Rights Act.

Track 4:

[44:13] Yeah, and I think, too, I think we would be remiss if we didn't talk about her Kellyanne Conway impression through all of that, And especially the Pennywise pre-recorded sketch that they did, or was it Kelly wise?

I'm not really sure. I can't remember now that I'm talking. Yeah. They turned it into, but again, just taking it just far enough to be a little bit roast of the character, but also, you know, enough past it for us, you know, the logical parts of our brains to remember that this is a parody of, And, you know, not taking it too far to like, I think, actually, you know, forget that those are still human beings.

Track 4:

[44:51] She's just so brilliant at towing that line and taking it over the top.

Just again, like like Kelly Wise.

Yeah, it was almost. Yeah, it was almost perfect that she played Kellyanne Conway.

Like that was the Kelly Wise one was a logical extension of how she played Kellyanne.

She almost played Kellyanne like a horror, like a movie villain, like a horror movie villain anyway.

Yeah, there was this emptiness. behind her Kellyanne behind those eyes just like really creepiness and slightly unhinged that's how she played Kellyanne so like dressing her up as a clown and doing the whole Kelly wise thing was like almost a perfect extension of just how she played that character in general and she had to do this like 16 times so so it could have just been become another boring political impression Russian, but she made it her own.

It's me, Kellyanne Conway.

Track 4:

[45:43] But you can call me Kellywise. Kellywise, the dancing clown.

Track 4:

[45:49] It's Kellyanne. What'd you do to your makeup? I toned it down.

Put me on TV. I have to go. Wait, don't go.

Don't you want a coat? No. I'll give you a coat. I'll give you a crazy, crazy coat.

How about this? Okay, so Puerto Rico actually was worse before Hurricane Maria and the hurricane actually did blow some buildings back together.

And I don't know why Elizabeth Warren won't tweet about that. That's insane.

I know. I think, too, just, yeah, playing off the fact that there was always something in it for Kelly.

She wasn't doing it for anybody else. And I think that Kelly Wise sketch really sold that message home, too.

I keep thinking, too, of her physicality. With Rudy Giuliani, she decided to play him almost like the Crypt Keeper or like a serpent in some ways.

Her Giuliani would sit there and he would manipulate his hands like they were spiders.

Track 4:

[46:45] These little mannerisms. It was just so perfect the way she played Giuliani because she could have just said, I'll just do an impression and let the crazy things that he says in real life speak for themselves.

I think that was a crutch that SNL maybe still hasn't shaken, is sometimes they'll just do verbatim what the person said.

But I appreciate Kate, because she tried to find a different angle, even if it was with her physical performance.

So a lot of people don't necessarily appreciate that, about that era of political SNL was how Kate approached it.

It yeah 100 because i think too they get so stuck on okay we need an impressionist who's gonna nail it and be so much like this person and i think you know will ferrell's george w bush i think kind of lulled snl into that because he was so spot on with it and then trying to find i think they go through like three or four different cast members trying to find someone to replace will ferrell's george w bush after that because they wanted so badly for it to be the way will ferrell did it and they just couldn't they couldn't replicate it and i think that's what was so genius about kate was once a cast member would leave who had otherwise done that impression and she stepped in to do it she made it her own she made it totally different so that way it wasn't like it was an exact comparison to either the real person or the cast member who had done it before.

Track 4:

[48:07] Yeah yeah that's a really great point kate almost played a president that she played hillary clinton and I think she really found...

She did it over 20 times and I think she really...

Track 4:

[48:23] To me kind of subtly found this great angle on hillary like this element of desperation, but also competence at the same time like part of the joke was that she was so competent that it was boring so she would try to like spice things up and maybe the real hillary tried to do that a little bit too in 2016.

Besides who can remember how many states i've lost in a row is it a two or is it three i don't hey miss clinton i'm here to fix seven holes in your wall.

Track 4:

[48:55] Come to think of it it might have been seven and and that's fantastic it humanizes me i'm the underdog now i'm this election's rudy and i like that after all i don't want to be a big old b and win every single state that's no fun she captured like like i said like the desperation but also So there was competence in how she played Hillary.

Yeah. And again, she had to follow Amy Poehler's impression of Hillary Clinton, which was super popular.

And again, made it her own.

And they were both such perfect, you know, Hillarys, for sure.

And same with Elizabeth Warren.

Her impression of Elizabeth Warren was just so...

I think that one was probably a little bit more like spot on to how she was.

Um or at least how i i saw her in in media i put down enthusiastic nerd for uh elizabeth warren, yes yes oh my god yes oh and then she did that tiktok with her i don't know if you saw that where it was like the the drake um was the the drake song was the trend i think oh okay gosh again i'm an elder millennial i'm not cool enough to remember the names of these songs anymore but But, yeah, and just taking it outside of, like, a live SNL sketch and, you know, portraying, you know, some of these people in things like TikTok, I thought was genius.

Track 4:

[50:18] Yeah, so. You should look it up if you haven't seen it. Yeah, I will, because I actually haven't seen that one pass me by.

Again, elder millennial, Drake, TikTok, these are all, like, words I barely know. So.

Track 4:

[50:33] I'll go take a look. Recently, like Robert Mueller, Anthony Fauci, like those could have been really thankless.

Track 4:

[50:40] But I think she found like a funny angle on Fauci, too.

Track 4:

[50:45] Just like especially that was a little more spot on and the way she looked and like her Fauci was just fun to listen to and look at.

So even in like the later Kate years, she still tried to I think she still tried to work hard to find angles on on different societal and political figures.

Figures and i think too we saw that with um doctor we notice kind of late on i think she only did that maybe two or three times but um i love how that kind of blended and it always turned into kate are you okay you know joe's asking her you know being that fourth wall even more so um and kind of reminding us hey kate um are you are you gonna be okay and her trying to get through the rest of that sketch i thought was really great and really again kind of captured how everyone was processing you know 2020 and 2021 um yeah like her doing those fourth wall breaks like i remember a cold open that she she hosted a talk show where it was just essentially her i think even the title of the talk show is like like what the hell is happening it was like in something along those lines where kate was just like marveling at just like the the craziness of of what was happening in the world.

Track 4:

[51:57] And I like seeing Kate start to almost share her exasperation about what was happening in the world through characters and sketches like that.

So we started seeing Kate more, kind of come out of her shell a little bit in that way, as far as just like, the doctor we noticed was perfect.

Track 4:

[52:16] Fourth wall break and asking her like are you are you okay what's going on kate like i yeah i just i thought that was perfect and now he's holding rallies yeah who does this he did this we notice we hate us he do this we notice.

Track 4:

[52:31] I'm sorry doctor we notice um yes are are you saying we know this or are you just saying your last name oh okay we know this is greek in english it translates to we know this like we're aware of this okay okay yeah i think i think i got it are there any like almost hidden gems or one-off, sketches or anything like that that might maybe maybe she did once or twice that just always like tickled you oh my god yes did you did you see or do you remember the birds sketch it had john mulaney in it and it was keenan it was like the turner classic movies and he is playing you know reese to what and it's this you know supposed cut scene from alfred hitchcock's the birds, that oh my god gets me every time because it's just so ridiculous you've got to do something Please, these birds, they're the jerk of the year.

Has anyone said, like, shoo, get out of here, bird, like with a hand wave?

No, no, there's too many and they're too mean. Okay, so these are birds of prey, like a hawk or an eagle?

No, no, they're seagulls, you know, the little guys that eat french fries at the beach. Oh, no, look!

Track 4:

[53:57] They set fire to the gas station. How? Wow.

Sir, I cannot explain. She plays the main actress in the movie who's running from the birds and Kate runs into this phone booth, locks herself in and she calls the sheriff and the sheriff is played by john mulaney and kate's just hysterical and beside herself and the birds the birds are killing everyone and john mulaney is basically playing himself in this sketch and it's like i'm sorry like they're just like pecking a lot of people or like what's happening just like no they're murdering us all she's so hysterical he's trying to be like she's like there's no time to explain you have have to come quick and he's like no no no i need you to explain like you just said the birds murdered a man i need you to explain how that's possible and to me that is just one of the funniest one-offs that i think she ever did and um beck bennett kind of runs off and on screen every now and then getting attacked by the birds and then it just keeps getting more ridiculous and now now the birds have picked up turtles and they're throwing turtles at people and now the turtles can fly like the bird it just look at this could have been the most random dud tank of a sketch and to me it's one of the funniest things that she did the entire time.

Track 4:

[55:20] She's so good about playing that dramatic old hollywood kind of delivery that affectation that's so good i remember that sketch i found it hilarious and it was it was just like the premise was super silly the premise was almost like yeah that makes sense like you watch the movie and you're kind of you are thinking I remember I saw it when I was like a teenager or something and I remember thinking wait these birds are like murdering people like what what this doesn't make sense why I like Hitchcock but what so I think yeah that's where they were coming from and Kate delivered that so well I love her affectation it's kind of funny that you bring up like how when she played like a 1950s actress because the one off that really like spoke to me with kate was from season 44 i don't know if you remember teacher fell down yes oh my god i almost forgot about that one yeah the sketch started with uh it just shows a shot of the outside of a school then you hear like this commotion in class and the students are like oh like gasp and then the sketch starts with kate just like on the ground just laying with her legs out almost like I'm a seated but with her legs out and she does this monologue this dramatic monologue almost like a scene from a.

Track 4:

[56:38] 1950s movie about how she fell down and we got in this predicament and we're in this together and and, I've been doing some thinking about this. And then just the reactions of the students like Jonah Hill, A.D.

Bryan, and Pete Davidson have these like perfect reactions to this teacher who's just like she fell down and she's monologuing. And it's because she was wearing willies. Her shoes had wheels on them, so she fell.

Track 4:

[57:05] But just Kate's just like commitment in her delivery, her affectation is this 1950s dramatic delivery.

Like Teacher Fell Down is kind of like, over the last five or ten years, one that I always go to is like, this was such like a possible, unappreciated, one-off, weird kind of thing that I totally connected with. Teacher fell down.

Are you okay? Yeah, because you really fell down there. No, you need like help?

No, no. It's too late for that.

Track 4:

[57:42] Teachers on the ground like a silly little girl well i'm not a little girl and i didn't fall.

Track 4:

[57:50] Yes you did do you want to like get up.

Track 4:

[57:53] Though no no we're staying in this i loved it i think because i am also kind of weird and random that i connected so much with kate and the characters that she did because it's like she made it okay to be weird and random and people celebrated it and enjoyed it and yeah like again just this she's having this existential crisis in front of a bunch of high schoolers like on the floor but it it made it funny like i just yeah um even even the one-offs like you said are so memorable when 80s says he said she's sharing her existential crisis with the students and when 80s says don't tell us stuff like that i love like i could just imagine like some 16 year old like i don't want to hear about my teacher's life like don't tell us stuff like why are you saying why are you telling us this yeah did you have any any more were you about to say oh gosh i don't know if it was a one-off but i loved when she did the russian like olia um and she was like again same thing like this deadpan delivery of like all these horrible things happening to her in russia um but oh don't worry america like you know you're going through this but you know we don't have you know like food um but no i don't think that was a one-off because i think she did olia a few times but yeah that was a great weekend character yeah yes it's around the same time she was doing the the angela merkel.

Track 4:

[59:23] One-two-one weekend update yes yes oh god see she did so much i can't imagine kate not being a candidate for the hall of fame like i think that would just be criminal i know i know it's amazing my wife's a french teacher so one sketch that this is like maybe the last one that i'll bring up but one sketch that i had to show my wife because she's a french teacher was the america's funniest pets okay well then i'm gonna let you guys handle this next clip of a cat who has this It's his first taste of ice cream.

Track 4:

[59:55] This cat has seconds to live. She purposefully cut off her oxygen.

This life is too much to bear. She is quietly backing out of this world.

And she will not be missed.

That's a funny cat. Yeah, very funny cat.

Kate and Cecily were playing these French women commenting on pet videos.

And they were these cute pet videos, but they were playing these nihilistic French women who were inserting these like these like kind of messed up scenarios with these pets and it was such wonderful caricatures and i showed my french teacher wife and she's like that's really funny like it's kind of a funny uh take on like a stereotypical take on like french culture aspects about french culture but that was one where she she and cecily were great in that and She was a really good teammate and especially had great chemistry with Aidy Bryant.

Is that one of the better duos, do you think, that we've seen on SNL, Kate and Aidy?

Oh, I think that would definitely be up there with Molly Shannon and Sherry O'Terry and those kind of duos. Like Tina Fey and Amy Poehler, I think.

Track 4:

[1:01:06] Maybe not quite as iconic as that um again tina's my queen um but i think kate and ade like fats and, is it dyke and fats um the top duo sketches that they did together and then the um the spiced meats that they were selling on weekend update um the like um whatever farms they're both vegetarians and they're trying to talk about this like rancid meat that's sitting in front of them um yeah Yeah, their duo together was perfection.

I loved it so much. Yeah, they were so good together.

And you could tell that they just fed off of each other's energy so well.

There was a fairly recent one.

John Krasinski hosted the episode. I thought it was a great episode all around.

But they did one where it was like a game show from the early 90s. And they were partners.

But they went on like there were these couples. And then it was Kate and 80.

And it was obviously they wouldn't say because it was the early 90s.

But they were a lesbian couple. couple and the way they talk to each other like you're my soulmate you're my life I like this.

Track 4:

[1:02:09] Just like they're you can do it yeah you can exactly there's chemistry was so so great that was like a wonderful encapsulation to me of just how Kate and 80 work together so well now let's learn a little bit about our front runners what do you guys do for work I have a doctorate in grocery riddles that's right I'm a I'm a Unitarian minister neat what will you do with the money if, Well, our blind horse needs a full-time nurse.

My snowshoes are looking a little ratty. And I do need titanium ankles, because mine are just sort of bone on bone. Ouchie!

Track 4:

[1:02:43] Well, good luck catching up, couples, because these two are really in sync.

Yeah. We got a really good thing. Yeah, this woman taught me how to trust.

Sometimes I lie awake, praying that we die in the same moment.

Kate is one of the... She was in one of the biggest movies of, like, last year, Barbie.

I thought she did really great. She played weird Barbie, of course, but other Barbie would, would Kate play and do well.

I mean, she could probably play any Barbie, but she was just so perfect as weird Barbie, really memorable performance.

That said, how could you see her post SNL career kind of playing out like types of roles?

And what would you like to see her do with her post SNL career?

Track 4:

[1:03:25] Oh, gosh, yeah, I mean, she was brilliant in it. And I think obviously, you know, uh, Greta Gerwig was, you know, her friend since forever.

And so I think knew that too about that Kate would be perfect for that role. Um, I mean, it's hard to say as much as I love her. I don't know that I see Kate in this, like, you know, she's the main kind of starring character.

I think she's always going to kind of be this like supporting actress role, but you're right.

Like you said earlier, she's such a good teammate that I think she understands that that kind of followership role in comedy or in a movie is just as important as like the lead.

And she really makes it such a well-rounded project to be in.

And so I would just love to see more of that.

I know she's had, you know, a few of those things here and there where it's been that side character.

I think Barbie, again, was the biggest and most brilliant and kind of the most mainstream that we've seen her do.

I would love that. I know we've seen like Maya Rudolph and Kristen Wiig get a lot of like recurring kind of shows now.

Track 4:

[1:04:26] I do think kind of in that smaller kind of show realm, Kate would be perfect for like a main role like that.

Just anything that Kate wants to be in, I will watch. watch um is essentially all that i ask is that she keeps making comedy and kind of showing us that it's okay to be weird and random and people will enjoy it yeah 100 i can see you're settling in so you said maya because maya appears for guest spots and so many different things and it's always appreciated will forte is another one where he he appears in so many things he did get a chance at a leading role in the last man on earth and maybe kate will get a chance to do something like that but I can see her settling into like how will Forte settled in as we bring in this person to do a few minutes on this episode and they totally steal the show and they're so great and I think that's the kind the type of energy that she has I can totally see her settling into something like that and you're right whatever whatever she wants to do especially if it's in comedy.

Track 4:

[1:05:27] I'm all aboard. I'm just so interested to see what she's going to do in the next few years.

Yeah and i hope that barbie was that kind of catalyst for more projects to come her way because she certainly deserves it yeah we always we talked a lot about her sketches as that kind of old hollywood actress and her making fun of the drama but really if you isolate those i mean i think she could pull it off too like she has that seriousness and the commitment to it to really do anything and have such a range of work available to her hopefully yeah i think so so So, not like it should even be a question.

To me, this is one of the more obvious ones that we have, just in general, especially this season.

Track 4:

[1:06:13] But, why do you think SNL Hall of Fame voters should put Kate in the Hall of Fame in her first season of eligibility?

Track 4:

[1:06:21] I think she's just iconic. I think she really became one of those big names that you think of when you go through all those different casts over the years.

I think her name holds up.

And again, elder millennial, as we keep saying, so I still have the actual D of the best of, you know, when they would actually publish the DVDs of, you know, there's like three or four volumes of Will Ferrell and best of Chris Farley and everything.

And I think that is kind of when you think of what goes on those types of, I don't even think we call them DVDs anymore, but those, those movies that you're going to put together is, can you fill 90 minutes of just this this one player and you could i think fill two or three volumes for kate mckinnon because she became so iconic and had so many roles that we identified with and love and quote and reference today in pop culture um and i think too one snl is such a big part of pop culture but i think the mark of a hall of famer is you know when that comedian comedian and their characters become part of pop culture outside of SNL.

And I think Kate's really done that for comedy and continued to really kind of evolve it and evolve it for women.

And I think be such a great role model for, you know, comedians to look up to and try to emulate.

Track 4:

[1:07:46] Like we said, the kind of the traits of an SNL character in a lab, I mean, she has them all.

I think if you you could literally build somebody to be on SNL, I think they would look exactly like Kate McKinnon.

And I can't imagine anybody else not being eligible, even though it's just her first year.

Track 2:

[1:08:17] So there's that. Kate McKinnon nominated for the SNL Hall of Fame in the cast member category.

Track 2:

[1:08:26] It's going to be interesting to see what kind of votes she receives.

She's a first ballot Hall of Famer to me. It's a slam dunk.

And it's just a matter of what percentage she gets in with. Does she top Dana Carvey and Will Ferrell?

Does she you know just squeak through ultimately the percentages don't matter once you're in but they are curious to note and we will be noting them to satisfy your curiosity speaking of curiosity why don't we go to a sketch now with ms mckinnon this is a good sketch and i I want to just set it up for you.

That's right. It is from season 44 and this one's a bit of a hidden gem that Kate pretty much carries, except for some interjections from Aidy Bryant and Pete Davidson and the host Jonah Hill.

There's also not much to the visual. It's just Kate sitting on the ground after falling in class. So let's go to that now.

This is Kate McKinnon in Teacher Fell.

Track 5:

[1:09:54] Are you okay? Yeah, because you really fell down there. No, you need, like, help?

No, no. It's too late for that.

Teacher's on the ground. Like a silly little girl.

Well, I'm not a little girl, and I didn't fall. Yes, you did.

Do you want to, like, get up, though? No, no.

We're staying in this. Because I've got a hunch. I'm no psychologist. Yo, this is driver's ed.

But maybe you're laughing because you're afraid.

Teachers on the ground. Everything's different. Are we okay?

Yeah, we're good, but are you okay?

Oh, because I tripped. Because I was teaching too fast. You remember how fast it was?

No, I think you just didn't realize that your shoes were Heelys.

Say, honey, we're at a what now? Uh, uh, Heelys are, uh, sneakers with wheels in them. Impossible!

Track 5:

[1:11:04] This is all funny now, but... it's not gonna be funny if it turns out I've got two broken legs...

And I'm in a full-bottom mermaid cast... wheeled around in a trash bin, Yeah, covered head to toe in stinky trash.

That's not funny. Spaghetti in my hair.

Track 5:

[1:11:33] This is some episode of Friend. Do you mean friends?

I don't know movies. I can't take this. I got to help her. Halt!

I can teach from the ground, can't I? Yes.

Let's place our hands on the wheel, okay? Remember, how old are my kids? 10 and 2. Oh.

Oh, my dear God.

Track 5:

[1:12:03] Teacher fell more. It's honestly not that different. You're, like, three inches lower.

God, I'm on the ground. Oh.

I'm where I belong. Yeah, we said I was too frail.

Said I wouldn't live past three, and I wish I hadn't. Oh, no, don't tell us stuff.

You know, I've fallen down before. Once, at my own wedding. And a thousand other times.

Stop sharing. My ex-husband used to tell me, "'Gayle, you're too weak.

Gayle, you're too clumsy.

Gayle, those shoes have wheels. Put that phone away!" -"Yo, I'm calling the nurse." -"You know what?

This is good. Film this. Film this." Hello.

How does it feel to see teacher, teacher who used to lord over you with such power, fallen down?

Knowing you could get up and kick her. Could step on her.

Come on now. Take a whiz on teaching. Oh, my God! Get up, you. Spit in my hair.

Okay. No! What she said to you. Oh.

Look at us.

The world's gone topsy-turvy, and so have we. We're all here.

We're all laughing like cats.

Track 5:

[1:13:29] You ought to try it. Falling down. See the world differently down here.

You realize how small we all are, how big the floor is.

All right, I learned my lesson. Someone help me up.

Well, they've left. I guess school is over. And wha-? Would you look at that?

There's a wheel in my shoe. What?

Track 2:

[1:13:56] That is stellar work from Kate McKinnon.

Virtuoso, if you will, in the cast member category.

I remember seeing her the first time, and you won't believe me when I say this, but I remember her popping off the screen and just thinking, she's going to be a star.

She's going to be a star. She just looked different on my television and sounded different on my television and was funnier on my television than anybody I had seen since the third golden age.

So there's that.

Track 2:

[1:14:32] Voting again opens next Monday, May the 6th.

We'll be back with the Don Pardo Award winner, which you don't vote for.

So it won't get confusing for you but the ballot will be ready for you it will be emailed to you if you've signed up for the uh to be registered as a voter and if you haven't you can go to snl hof.com and you can vote through the link there we'll also have it on our all our social and.

Track 2:

[1:15:01] You'll be able to get access to it quite easily i really want to thank matt and thomas and And especially our guest, Ashley Bauer. It's been great to have you.

And that's what I've got for you this week. So if you would please do me a favor.

And on your way out, as you pass the Weekend Update Exhibit, turn out the lights because the SNL Hall of Fame is now closed.

This week on the podcast, Jamie welcomes friend of the show Matthew Price into the Hall to wax nostalgic on original castmember and SNL's original sweetheart, Gilda Radner. What is her legacy? Although a fantastic castmember with All-Star bona fides, does she belong in the Hall? You'll help decide that at the end of the season when voting opens!

If you've got questions about the show or would like to be a guest on an episode in the future please reach out - jamie@snlhof.com

You can follow and support the show through discussion and sharing in all the usual places. Twitter - @SNLHOF Web - snlhof.com

This week on the podcast, Jamie welcomes multi-hyphonate, Andrew Clarke into the Hall to discuss the pioneering power of Lorne Michaels and what he means to the show. It says here that he is a first-ballot Hall of Famer or the whole system I've created is wrong. Time will tell.

If you've got questions about the show, or would like to be a guest please reach out.

You can follow us in all the usual places. Twitter - @SNLHOF Web - snlhof.com and Email - jamie@snlhof.com

Join us this week in the SNL Hall of Fame as we welcome Jon Schneider onto the podcast to discuss the one of kind, Will Forte. Will he be enshrined in the hall? Only you can decide.

Transcript:

Track 2:

[0:42] Hey, it's J.D. here, and I want to thank Doug DeNance for another lovely introduction.

Welcome to the SNL Hall of Fame podcast. As I mentioned off the top, I am your host, J.D.

I am joined by Matthew Ardill in the trivia corner, and of course, our chief librarian, Thomas Senna, will handle the conversation with John Schneider today. So that's really exciting.

But who are we going to cover? Well, before that, the SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair where each episode we take a deep dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest, or writer and add them to the ballot for your consideration.

Once the nominees have been announced, we turn to you, the listener, to vote for the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined for perpetuity in the hall.

And that's how we play the game. It's just that simple.

May the 6th is the date you're going to want to circle on your calendar.

That is when voting opens in the SNL Hall of Fame, and we have one hell of a ballot.

There are some stakes here, as there are people that are on their fifth ballot that if they don't make it in, they will be removed from the ballot.

And that is as high stakes as it really gets here on the SNL Hall of Fame, except for that time that we had lava on the floor.

You bet your ass people wiped their feet then.

Track 2:

[2:10] Let's go to our friend, Matt Ardill. Matthew, my friend.

Track 3:

[2:13] How are you doing, JD? I'm great. I'm great. Thanks for asking. How about you?

I'm good. I'm great as well. Yeah. Yeah. I've got, I'm really excited.

I love Will Forte on so many levels.

I can't wait to share. Well, learn me up.

Okay. Well, Will Forte, 5'9", born June 17th, 1970. He has 132 acting credits, 26 writing credits, 20 soundtrack credits, and five producer credits.

He was born in Alameda County, California, and attended the University of California.

He was a member, and this shocked me.

He was a member of the varsity football team, varsity swim team. So he was a jock.

Track 3:

[2:57] That's not what I would have expected. Me neither. I want a picture of Theater Nerd. Yeah.

Exactly i would have imagined that as well but i mean it's that's just you know that's i guess us not seeing past the stereotype but uh yeah he went on to earn a history degree valuable lesson you just taught us matthew yeah let's do just because somebody plays sports doesn't mean they don't have the the love of theater in them that's right but yeah so thank you for that yeah not from but yeah got a degree in history from ucla and um then he realized his true love was comedy so he joined the groundlings he also tutored faye dunaway's 12 year old son in mathematics while he was in high school which is like that's just a weird i mean this is the weird connections you get living in california yeah i suppose so yeah yeah you know so it's just it i i don't know No, I feel like living in Canada, we don't get those wacky connections, but, um.

Track 3:

[3:59] At a young age, he went to see Tony Orlando, and Tony brought him and his friend up on the stage, and he encouraged them to follow their passions.

So much so, he wrote him and Tony a nice letter many years later.

What a class act. Yeah, yeah. And he, in fact, is a class act in multiple ways.

He is also a class act video game player. He is the 36th highest scorer in the world in Donkey Kong.

Long whoa yeah he watched the that fistful of quarters documentary and he's like i can do that and is now registered on twin galaxies as number 36 in the world that's brilliant that movie also very very good yes and it's not to go on a tangent you watch that fistful of quarters that the villain in that show is a total nut bar you can go down a rabbit hole all on its own as As well as an amazing video gamer, he is also a super sweet dude.

Rachel Dratch describes him and Seth Meyers as her comedy non-boyfriends, basically her comedy brothers.

She's remained incredibly close to them.

Track 3:

[5:12] But he's also remained close to other cast members.

He attended Andy Samberg and Seth Meyers' weddings, both in character as Hamilton.

Hamilton oh my gosh i would have paid good money just to see that i mean just a full character problem is a lot of their families don't know the character so all they know is there's a super racist weirdo walking around at the way which is the most will thing like that just is like yeah i that that that makes sense that makes sense um he collects life preservers and construction helmets he actually got his start uh as a published author he wrote 101 things definitely Definitely not to do if you want to get a check.

Track 3:

[6:12] It was a comic that he wrote at 24, which he parlayed into his first gig writing for the Jenny McCarthy show and then moving on to Letterman.

One of the weirder things that I read is at one point, Val Kilmer was trying to find a house in Malibu.

So he was just couch serving and will let him stay on his couch for a couple of months. And one night they were watching the amazing race and they thought that'd be awesome and wanted to go on the amazing race there.

Their agents ultimately stopped them.

Track 3:

[6:46] Uh, boo, those agents did not really do the right thing.

Uh, and then unfortunately time got away from them and it didn't happen.

Um, but yeah, just, and just to illustrate how amazing a dude he is.

Uh, he gave his entire per diem to the crew, uh, for MacGruber, which when he was filming the film MacGruber, he, uh, his mom visited the set on this, the naked celery scene, uh, shooting day.

So that must've been a little weird.

Um, you think, yeah, it's like, uh, but yeah.

So as a part of a fundraising event for boys and girls club of Venice, he auctioned off an opportunity to see, um, a early cut of MacGruber with him and Ryan Philippe, uh, before its premiere.

Um but he said if somebody paid a hundred thousand dollars he'd take them out for yogurt twice a year for the rest of his life thought it was a joke and someone called us bluff so now wow ever since the release of mcgruber he's been taking this person out twice a year for yogurt.

Track 3:

[8:00] Um oh that's they're gonna develop a friendship yeah yeah that i mean you don't you don't do that not actually start to like one another you would think you would explore it at least yeah yeah and and i mean in the ultimate expression of how good a duty is like a true gentleman when filming the last scene for the last man on earth he and kristen shaw had a sex scene after her character ate a can of beans and she let one rip like crazy and he took the bullet for it he claimed it was his so, Just a true gentleman all around. Wow. A gentleman of thoughts.

Track 3:

[8:47] Yes. Yes, indeed. Well, I think that I'm pretty excited that our guest today is the Grand Poobah over at the Saturday Night Network.

It's John Schneider, and he is joined right now downstairs with Thomas, so let's join them in conversation.

Track 4:

[9:40] All right, J.D. and Matt, thank you so much. Yes, welcome to another episode, another wonderful conversation with a great guest.

Welcome to the SNL Hall of Fame podcast.

And today we are talking about, this is a personal favorite of mine. This is a chance for me.

And my guests to just be total geeks. It's almost for me like when Sammy K and I did the Vanessa Bear episode last season.

That's like 14 for you and one for me kind of thing.

So this is what this is like with Will Forte, our nominee today.

So to join me, another fellow Will Forte nerd, possibly he's, Will Forte is one of my favorite, probably in the top two or three favorite cast members of mine personally.

And I think for my guest, Will Forte falls under that category, too.

So I am joined by a friend, somebody who I greatly admire in the podcast.

He's kind of like a podcasting influence for me personally.

Track 4:

[10:42] It is from the Saturday Night Network, John Schneider. Hey, man, what's up? Thanks for joining me. Hey, Thomas.

Track 4:

[10:49] Well, I'm very first of all, I'm very humbled that you would say that mutual respect here and love what you've done with the show and and JD and Matt and everybody here so thank you so much for having me back and I have to say Thomas I maybe have podcasted about I'm gonna just I'm gonna throw out a guess here I'm gonna say like 300 podcasts about SNL I maybe have done like over the last few years I don't think I've ever been as excited to do a podcast as I am right now like this is this is one of the best things I could have ever done as an SNL podcaster is get to talk about will forte he is definitely my favorite cast member of all time i wouldn't be talking about snl or podcasting about snl or doing all the things that we're doing at the snn if i didn't fall in love with will forte on the show and everything that he did and i i know i'm not alone with that i know that there's so many people out there that will forte is such a big influence on so thank you for having me today i can't wait to have this conversation yeah absolutely i'm so giddy too and then redoing some refresh because with will forte i don't necessarily need to do research quote unquote but i like to refresh myself watch sketches go in with uh you know having watched these sketches as close to recording time as possible so they could be fresh and this is like the most fun quote unquote research i think that i've done for this entire show because.

Track 4:

[12:07] I love will forte so much so so yeah this is gonna be great thanks for so much for joining i meant what i said as far as you being like a podcasting influence what you've built at saturday night Network is just amazing.

Track 4:

[12:19] So tell us, tell the listeners what's been going on over at the S&N a lot. I know.

Thank you so much. Yeah. I mean, it's been pretty crazy. It's been great to get the show back after that writer's strike and glad that everything turned out well over there. And.

Track 4:

[12:37] You know, nonstop coverage of the season. As we go through all the live weeks, we have coverage right after the show is done airing.

So we have this great group of people who stay up late with us and talk about the show.

If you're watching on YouTube, you can always find our hot take shows and join us in the conversation.

So let's say, you know, you're tired, you're lying in bed, you just enjoy the show, but you just have to talk to somebody about it.

It's a great place to go and hang out. And we also have our Monday night round tables where we're just, you know, breaking down the show even further, talking about the legacy of a specific host in a specific episode.

And then our By the Number shows that we do on Wednesday that Mike Murray hosts for all the stats on, you know, turning SNL into a live sport.

So that's our regular coverage. We also get to do some really cool interviews that we do on our show called SNL Stories.

We just had Christine Ebersole, season seven cast member. We just spoke to Bobby Moynihan. There's a lot of great ones out there as well.

Track 4:

[13:25] Yeah, now we're sort of turning our heads towards the end of season 49, finishing up all the coverage on that, doing some summer stuff.

And then it's season 50. It's the big one. So we have lots of stuff planned for season 50, and I can't wait to get to all of that.

And yeah, you got to come hang out with us at the Saturday Night Network.

Yeah, so this guy's built like a true network, like you and everybody else.

Bill Kenney, Sammy K, the Andrews, everybody who's really closely involved.

You've got quite the community going at S&N. It's a true network, like you have a Saturday Night thing, a Monday thing, a Patreon thing, by the numbers.

So it's really definitely a true network there. Maybe you can get Will Forte on, like, SNL Stories one day.

That is the dream. I'm hoping for, like, yeah, that's the big one or one of the big ones for sure.

I'm hoping maybe for a special numbered show, maybe a 500th, maybe a 1,000th, something like that.

I can convince him to do it. I have met Will Forte before.

Track 4:

[14:21] I actually went to go meet him on my birthday when he was at Just for Laughs.

This was before I was doing SNL media coverage. But I went to go talk to him, and he could not have been nicer. and I know that some of our podcasters have bumped into him over the last few years and he said that he would do it.

So I'm hoping one day we'll get him to, you know, come on board.

And I think we're gonna have a blast whenever that does happen.

Yeah, that that would be a biggie. So Will Forte, our nominee today on the SNL Hall of Fame on the cast from 2002 to 2010.

And from what I understand, John, that was basically the era that made you love the show like that whole that all those was cast between 2002 and 2010, that whole era.

So what were your impressions of Will Forte when you first saw him on SNL, this oddball?

Track 4:

[15:08] Yeah so very fun fact that he almost got hired the year prior but i think he wanted to keep writing on that 70s show which was also a show i enjoyed very much at the time but uh yeah so when so i'll go back to like my original my origin story for watching the show the first time, and um i really fell in love with the show you know from like 2005 to 2010 i was in high school then and that for me was just like will was such a big part of that cast but prior to that i tuned into SNL.

I knew what it was. We had like friends who had older siblings who were watching it all the time.

And at times I would just like turn on the show and just catch glimpses.

And I remember seeing like Tina and Jimmy on the show and being like really intrigued. Some of, you know, Smigel's TV Funhouse stuff.

But one time I remember my parents going out on a Saturday night and I turned on SNL and I was very curious what I was gonna see.

And I saw Will Forte as Tim Calhoun, this politician who's just like is so anxious and can't get anything out and just like nervous flop sweating I think I would make a real good president because I'm a hockey dad soccer uncle football cousin ping-pong brother and And Donkey Kong best friend.

Track 4:

[16:35] My opponents have been using my full name to scare people.

Is it my fault that my middle name is Boo?

Track 4:

[16:47] I just fell in love. For me, there's just something about it that clicked.

And getting to watch him throughout his time at the show, So I've like psychoanalyzed this over the years, Thomas, where I'm like trying to figure out what it is for him that just, you know, makes me laugh harder than anybody else.

And I think it's because like...

I think I'm like a pretty like I have quirks, but I think I'm like a pretty normal person Yeah, but like will brings out the weird in me Like he brings out something in my personality that isn't brought out by most people And it's something that I watch on the screen and I just get purely happy So in some of like the you know saddest times of my life i've turned on will forte sketches and he's just Brightened my day.

That's such the mark of a good performer, too He does that for me As well, like i'm a pretty normal i'm probably a little more weird than you i would say like if we're doing a scale or we have to ask listeners i'm guessing we'll ask we'll take a we'll take a poll or something but uh i'll ask them on i'm doing the hot take show so maybe that'll i'll chat to see to see about that uh but so but you're right so he brings out like the the weird aspect of me to like all those little those little things that i'm like why do i relate to this like because i've kind of i kind of had that like weird side of me but that that's That's like the mark of a good performer is like he's relatable in that weirdness that maybe you didn't know you had until you watched him perform in some ways. Does that make sense?

Track 4:

[18:09] Yeah, I mean, I think he's he's reminds me a lot of like the friends that I chose like for my life.

Like I'm I have a very unique situation in my personal life where some of my friends have been my friends for over 20 years. Like these are friends from when I was really little.

And I won. I always like wonder like why I gravitated to a specific type of person.

And it's like the people who will go the furthest with a joke like that and like they have a lot of will forte qualities in them and i just think i like to surround myself with people who are um sort of like you know don't give a shit and you know and it will like take something really far not not offensively but like um i remember seth meyer is telling this amazing joke uh this amazing story about will forte once on late night where he said that um i believe it was one of the writers, I'm blanking on the name of the specific writer, but one of the writers had been so hungry on a Tuesday night writing night and was writing all night and ordered Chinese food.

And it took so long to get upstairs to the 17th floor.

Hours and hours. Finally, the delivery guy drops out the food, gets there. The writer is like so excited.

Will Forte goes to pick up the bag and drops it out the window.

Track 4:

[19:17] It's one of the greatest things I've ever heard. And I'm just like, you got to look that up on YouTube and like watch Seth tell that story.

It is so funny to me and it is perfectly like encapsulates Will Forte and why everybody loves hanging out with him.

That's so oddball. That's so Will Forte. You honed in on something that relates to something that I wrote down, like a key word.

I was thinking about Will Forte, and the word that keeps coming up for me is commitment.

I think Will Forte, more than most cast members that have come through the show, is he's 100% committed to this sketch.

No matter what, this character, this sketch, Will Forte is in it.

And to me, John, when I see cast members, won't name names obviously, but when I see cast members who maybe are less so, who I gravitate less toward, or maybe cast members who I feel slightly uncomfortable watching on screen, I think it's a lot of times because they lack commitment on screen.

Because I see there's something that's not letting them just break out of their shell completely.

With Will Forte, that was never the problem. Can you think of a performer on SNL that can rival? I mean, there's probably people who can rival, but is there any performer who could exceed Will Forte's commitment?

Track 4:

[20:34] I think Will Ferrell probably is a good example. I mean, the like the two Wills, I think like, you know, Phil Hartman and Dana Carvey.

You got to put that in that category a little bit. Those are all time greats, though. Yeah, like I really I really do feel.

But Will, like it has his own kind of commitment where he goes to like he goes to one side that is so unique to the show. And, you know, a lot of times on on our podcast, when we're evaluating an episode, we'll talk about the 10 to 1 sketch.

And he basically, you know, that did exist prior to it. But, you know, it's really the Will Forte slot in the show.

Like, I think everyone that's come after him has always been like looking for a Will Forte to be the weird sketch.

Sketch um and i think like the committed weird is really what people are looking for in that 10 to 1 it's not just like oh here's like a random weird one-off character that's quirky it's like somebody who is so weird that it just makes everybody in the sketch and out of the sketch just like amazed at that person i think sarah sherman does that sometimes as well and i wish we got that more on the show but yeah i mean i think you nailed it i think that's that is a quality that we look for and will but i will also say one other quality thomas, that i always stuck out to me about will was that he's like a very normal good-looking guy.

Track 4:

[21:49] And like you know maybe like barring the time like for last man on earth that he like shaved like half his beard and half his head like he is like so normal looking and he's a secret sicko, that's what i love is that like you would never know that this guy in his head is an evil genius and i love that about him yeah and i think that's one of the things when i first saw will forte on screen i'm like okay he's just kind of a your standard issue male cast member that they hired and he's just gonna be like cookie cutter but you put this real quick he he totally dispelled all the notions that i had just by looking at him you're right there's like this sicko i love that word that's that's a perfect word to describe a lot of what's underneath the surface of will Will Forte is just, yeah, like that sicko, right?

They're like a nondescript, normal-looking guy, but then something comes bursting out of him that's just very weird.

And when I think about all-time greats, Hall of Famers, whatever, I think it scores bonus points, especially, you know, with Will Forte, that he had his own unique lane in the show.

Like, you can see a sketch and say, that's a Will Forte sketch.

Track 4:

[23:07] And that's rare. And that's something that I, you know, when it comes to SNL, when I see a cast member like that, I really gravitate toward it because that's a rare quality to have where it's just like, that's Will Forte's lane.

You mentioned 10 to 1, any sort of oddball thing.

Andrew Dismukes kind of has that right now. That's why I kind of gravitate toward him because Dismukes has a stamp.

But to me, that scores Will Forte bonus points for having his own unique lane, John.

Track 4:

[23:37] I agree. I mean, look, I think we had this very interesting discussion when we did the SNN's cast member countdown.

So Will Forte was voted 18th overall by the viewers.

I was doing my rankings at the same time. I had him at 21.

So really around the same range, but slightly lower than that.

And you may be saying like, John, how can this person be your favorite cast member? And you have them at 21st.

And the truth is, is that I think that, you know, when you're looking at the 50 year legacy of the show, um, there are a lot of performers that are extremely well-rounded that have contributed and just, you know, built in every aspect of the show.

And I just, I don't, I think that will have the ability to make the show all about him like an Eddie Murphy at times, like a Kristen and wig at times.

You know, like a Will Ferrell. But the show was never built around Will.

Will was always one or two parts or three parts of an episode.

And you would watch his sketches and you may walk away feeling like they were your favorites.

But it was very rare when you you watch an episode of Saturday Night Live during Will Forte's tenure, that you're like, that is a Will Forte episode, or this season was Will Forte season.

Track 4:

[24:42] So I also needed to be objective and fair about that. Now, I don't think that disqualifies him from the Hall of Fame whatsoever, because I think that like The Hall of Fame is a whole other thing where you're talking about people who built the legacy of the show, and I think he's very, very much a part of that. Yeah, absolutely.

And still, I mean, you said 21st. He ended up on the, or 18th on the countdown.

18th on the cast, 21 on my list. Where do you have him?

I think I had him probably about 16th, ultimately, even though he's one of my two or three.

Yeah, he's one of my two or three favorite cast members, but favorite, and then, and I'm trying to put together the greatest.

So it's different, but to me.

Track 4:

[25:18] Shoot like top 20 top 25 that's right smack in the middle of hall of fame territory right there if we're talking 160 or something now cast members so to me will forte is a slam dunk hall of famer so this is gonna be like the listener will know where i'm coming from and where you're coming from obviously with this episode but i was surprised i think that i had him higher than you but really you're right like it's the same ballpark so we both view him about equally i think yeah i mean the other thing you have to you know like the other thing that i factored into my cast rankings was also you know his contribution after his time in the cast he does leave in 2010 um and i think that he you know we'll get to this full conversation of his career but i i do think he could have stayed an extra couple years and that really would have helped him in terms of legacy like had he left at the same time as andy sandberg and kristen wigg he He has only come back to host once.

That episode that he hosted was one of the weirdest episodes in SNL history.

I think we could say that now.

Track 4:

[26:18] So, you know, that to me is a factor that I think about in terms of overall contribution to the series.

So, you know, these are things to think about. But overall, I mean, what a career that he put up at the show. I can't wait to get into it. Just amazing.

And we can get into it. What is maybe the first sketch or character that you think about when you think of Will Forte?

All right. So I got two that are my quintessential Will Forte sketches.

These are two of my favorite sketches of all time.

I've always I've had the trouble of deciding which one is my truly my favorite all time.

But if I had somebody who came to me said I've never watched a Saturday Night Live sketch before, which one should I start with?

Track 4:

[27:01] I'm going to start with Jeff Montgomery, the sex offender.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly is your Halloween costume? I'm a sex offender.

Track 4:

[27:17] Excuse me? I'm a sex offender. For Halloween.

A sex offender. Yes, pretty convincing, huh? Here, watch this.

I'm Jeff Montgomery. summary by law i'm required to inform you that i'm a repeat sex offender and i'll be living in your neighborhood it's a great costume right yes yes to me this to me like encapsulates everything i look for in the show it is so fantastic this is a this is a sketch by the way that was cut once previously from the brian williams episode in 2007 it was then brought back for the john Jon Hamm episode in October 2008.

Track 4:

[27:57] And this is a guy who rings the doorbell, trick or treat, and says that he's dressed as a sex offender and needs some papers to be signed.

And the confusion between Jon Hamm and Will Forte, as they discuss, are you dressed as a sex offender or are you actually a sex offender, is one of the funniest things I have ever seen.

And Will Forte plays this beautifully.

It's beautiful wordsmithing by Will Forte to dance around the fact that he's a sex offender needing to go around the neighborhood.

And this is a great example of understated Will Forte, in my opinion.

I think the other one that you're going to mention that I have a feeling you're going to mention is more so on the bigger side a little bit.

But this, yeah, this Jeff Montgomery one is more understated Will in a lot of ways.

Yes. And I want to credit Colin Jost, who wrote that sketch with him.

So that, you know, the two of them, I mean, what a team that is.

Collins wrote some fantastic sketches over the years.

But yes, I would say this is the sketch that I would show people the most of, of Will Forte.

I have, I struggle whether it's truly my favorite sketch because there's one that like sentimentally means more to people, but I don't know if you get it if you're not an SNL fan. So do you want me to jump to that one?

Yeah, I think you're going to, well, go ahead.

Track 4:

[29:19] So so i also want to say jeff montgomery did come back a second time with tim mcgrath which is uh but but yes um the the one i'm the one that means the most to me in my heart is the dancing coach sketch with peyton manning yeah and that to me is like i i think i can say it's my favorite sketch of all time this is where peyton manning uh is on a is not a football player he's a basketball player in the sketch and it's halftime in a basketball game uh like sort of like a college basketball situation and him and keenan and fred and andy and bill and jason they all come in uh to the locker room, and Will Forte is the coach and starts talking to them about, you know, being more motivated.

All right, listen up.

Track 4:

[30:00] I see a lot of mopey faces around here. Granted, we're down by 34 points.

McMillan broke his ankle, and our cheerleaders have started cheering for the other team. That doesn't mean we can't come back and win this thing.

And Wally, you got something you want to say? Yeah, coach.

Guys. And gives them the speech that leads to Will Forte playing the theme or one of the songs from Casino Royale and he starts dancing.

You definitely got to look this up if you can find it online because Will Forte dancing and making everybody laugh, including, you know, watching Bill Hader's face in the back of the sketch is.

Honestly like when this came out and i saw this live we watched this sketch maybe a hundred times thomas that's how much you watched it was so funny to me and i cannot watch it without laughing, great one of my greatest sketches of all time this is amazing physical comedy by will forte i'm glad you paired this one with the jeff montgomery one at the top because it's almost like the comedic yin and the yang for will forte like i said jeff montgomery's more like it's about how Will Forte's delivering the lines and it's more understated.

And this one, it's just like physical comedy, these dance moves, how he times it out with the song.

Track 4:

[31:17] You're right, like Keenan. Keenan's almost the first one to break.

He and Peyton have to cover themselves, their faces with towels just to not break.

And Fred, Fred's usually like pretty, you know, keeps it together.

Famously in the Debbie Downer sketch, Fred was the one kind of like watching everybody going, going okay guys we still have a scene to do in this one fred was this is one of the few times that i saw fred almost break and bill of course bill hater uh always does but how could you not this was such great will forte physical comedy like i i absolutely love this one john honestly i think a lot of cast members feel like this is one of their favorite sketches of all time bobby moynihan when he joined us uh he he mentioned this sketch at one point about how this is one of his favorite sketches and then he got to be in the second one in his first episode and it was just like so exciting for him to see the dancing uh you know the dancing coach and i just you know like i said it's one of those visual things that you got to go watch this it is so amazing the commitment from will forte absolutely fantastic so to me those are the two quintessential will forte sketches there's a lot more though i can't wait to get into yeah i have a quintessential central one as well it comes toward the end of his SNL tenure and it's the one that he and Jason Sudeikis did with Blake Lively the potato chip, Janelda, how many potato chips did you put in here today? Thirty-five.

I thought so. I thought so!

Track 4:

[32:43] You didn't happen to take any out for yourself? Oh, God, no.

Why, that would be stealing. It certainly would.

Track 4:

[32:53] Janelda, what would you say if I'd have told you that that man right there is nothing but a common potato chip thief? Ah!

Potato chip thief! to me if i wanted to show somebody like this is will forte's humor this is will forte's playground i might show them potato chip thief too that'd be one of the first ones that i show them, like just just displaying will forte's like humor what he brought to snl he and this one he plays it big like it's maybe a little more understated at the beginning but he ends up like yelling screaming but underneath that screaming he says some really funny things so potato chip thief john would be to me like another quintessential will forte yeah so i love this sketch a lot it has a lot of elements of other sketches which is maybe why i don't put this at the top of my will forte list like i would say that this is and i get what you're saying i think for a lot of people this is the top will forte stuff um for me i'd say this is maybe like my B tier Will Forte, just because it has elements of other things that I think ultimately led to this occasion.

Track 4:

[34:01] It's a brilliant sketch. Love Jason Sudeikis in this as well.

Love Blake Lively. Like this is a really, really great sketch.

I believe this is John Solomon and Will Forte in this one.

John Solomon wrote a lot with Will when he was on the show. But the, you know, chewing the potato chip and spitting it into, you know, the mouth, which is just like, again, something you got to see I know that that happened a little bit in the 2000s the baby bird stuff with Will Ferrell and all that stuff so the grossness of the sketch I think really does work here but it does lose its luster a little bit if you've seen it before whereas I think the dancing coach like is just like non-stop money but yeah ultimately I do I do really really love this sketch and I think that the commitment here from Will is fantastic and the reason that I felt like it has you know stuff from Will's earlier career is because him yelling is a another staple of Will Forte with the Zell Miller impression which you ever go see that you know one of his like talk show guys that he did and like he would just yell that's like an early Will Forte career thing where he would just yell so much that his face would turn red.

Senator Miller knowing what we know now how could we possibly avoid such destruction from future tsunamis? Tsunamis!

I'm sick of hearing about tsunamis!

Thank you.

Track 4:

[35:30] And that is also incorporated into the sketch a little bit. But I love this one too, Thomas.

Yeah, definite Zell Miller vibes, one of his recurring characters.

Zell Miller, Georgia politician.

I think Zell Miller said some crazy things, especially about Barack Obama.

And then Will Forte just sort of turned him into a caricature completely.

Track 4:

[35:53] I do want to talk about Will Forte as a breath of fresh air for the show.

Show to uh because i think and i know it's subjective but he started at a time where i think snl was trying to find an identity will ferrell had just left and they didn't quite have an identity they were playing around with like do we push seth meyers as the star of the show who's the star of the show what's our humor what's our viewpoint and i think will forte was a breath of fresh air amidst them trying to figure themselves out i mean the show and things like the falconer that premiered in season 28 and that was so to me that was so unlike a lot of what was on snl at the time that it was um it was a relief sometimes to see the falconer something like that pop up on screen and this the falconer is one of the things that will forte is best known for but it was just like a relief for me as a viewer when it popped up in this era of SNL.

Donald, we're starving to death.

This land that once filled us with life is now barren.

One of us must search elsewhere, and only one of us can fly.

Track 4:

[37:06] No, Donald, you! Oh, Donald, even in these desperate times, you still retain that dry sense of humor.

Now you must fly away from these woods and bring back something, a possum, a squirrel, anything to keep us alive. So be gone, my friend.

Bring us life. Bring us life.

Yeah, I do like the Falconer a lot. I think those sketches are pretty forgotten because of all the great things that Will Forte did after.

But I truly believe those are great sketches.

That's Will with Eric Slovin and Leo Allen. And I think Eric Slovin was the guy who, by the way, who will dump.

Track 4:

[37:47] Before but yeah those falconer sketches are really great and just so weird and bizarre for a time where snl's writing was a little choppy and they were trying to figure it out like you said in that you know post will ferrell world and pre kristin wigg bill hater jason sudeikis and andy samberg world and i think that those sketches are really great i think they did nine of them um and they are very enjoyable i love will getting to talk to objects like that and i think you know or Or animals like that.

And I do think you get to see more of this in Last Man on Earth.

If you ever go watch that show.

Track 4:

[38:23] Yeah. That he brings out some of his Falconer character.

Yeah. Especially like at the beginning of the series. The Last Man on Earth.

When he's talking to the balls.

The various balls that become his friends.

That are like placed inside the bar.

I can definitely see that. I'm going to go ahead and call Donald an object too. Because you could see.

One of the funny things is you could see the strings on that puppet.

I'm sure that was a choice.

Like let's make the strings show and make it look as ridiculous as possible and john when i sometimes when i as a viewer when i complain about like little writing things and stuff one of my chief things is escalation like how do you do escalation what's proper escalation the sketch needs more escalation that's if i always say that like it could have been bumped up just another notch with the falconer to me a lot of these sketches were just perfect examples of how you escalate, especially a recurring sketch.

How do you find escalation in something recurring?

I think Will Forte and the people behind this Falconer sketch just did that escalation beautifully.

Track 4:

[39:32] I totally agree. I think that's a great point for these.

You know, there are some other sketches from early in his career that I think are really important to bring up that are often lost upon people.

So I think now is a good time to maybe pivot to some of those um one of those is from the season 28 episode 14 episode with queen latifah i don't know if you know what i'm gonna say but this one is give up the ham give up the ham, such a good sketch that is like because of the i don't know if it's like the song like it doesn't get put up a lot and like you gotta look you gotta google it and look up this but um basically people fighting over ham at a grocery store and then the sketch breaks down with bull forte singing singing, give up the ham.

Track 4:

[40:44] And it is so so good and like i think maybe the first moment of really seeing like how great this guy is i know that him and fred sort of did some stuff on update but like this was to me the first like major major moment for well for a day on the show it's commitment to something ridiculous or like a commitment to an everyday thing like uh shopping at a grocery store say so how can we take that scene that scenario and and play it up into something ridiculous and and uh it was that amy poehler and queen latifah i think rachel dratch comes in as amy poehler's friend so all these people start walking in but then will just totally owns it with this song like yeah that's just total commitment again like you'll never have trouble with will forte and commitment give up the Ham's one of the ones that I go back to semi-regularly, honestly, if I need a good laugh, I do that.

That's a really good shout out. That's from season 28, episode 14.

One that I thought of, season 28, the next episode, episode 15, it was a sketch that he did with Jimmy Fallon, Salma Hayek.

It was called Cardboard Box. You remember this one, John? I do.

Yeah, go ahead. So Will Forte, so he played a husband who was suspecting his wife of cheating.

Track 4:

[42:06] So Will Forte's character mailed himself to their house in this big cardboard box so he could catch them in the act.

And this is just, to me, like we're talking early examples, like such a wonderful early example of a truly absurd premise that Will Forte completely sells.

And he has to do this inside a box that he's not even on on camera most of the sketch and what he has to do and what he has to convey from inside a cardboard box is like chef's kiss like beautiful work yeah he does this thing sometimes where he can like we talked about zell miller with yelling till he's red but sometimes he does this like angry yell in a calm way that it's very hard to describe unless you hear it but um he did this recently on like i think you should leave in one of the episodes uh tim robinson's show where he's like almost like he like fell on the sidewalk and he was like under a car but he wasn't like really stuck um but yeah he does this thing sometimes where he's like stuck in a place and he's just like someone will say something to him and he'll like respond with this sarcasticness in his voice that's like oh of course you would think that you know like that type of thing and it's just so brilliant to me and this is this is This is a real deep cut Thomas, but this is a great sketch.

You don't think he has any idea what's going on with us, do you? Oh, please.

That ignoramus doesn't suspect a thing. He does now.

Track 4:

[43:32] Ray, where are you? Right here.

All right here i'm in the box what the hell are you doing in the box i thought you went to cleveland i was but i mailed myself home to lay this little trap for you and now after laying in wait for 28 hours the trap is sprung ha 28 hours it's awesome i think what jimmy fallon was hosting this or was it salma no salma hike was hosting it jimmy fallon was still on the cast obviously season uh 28 uh but yeah this is like kind of a deep cut i think will forte has a lot of these it's like these one-offs yeah where you you get reminded of it and it was like oh yeah will forte.

Track 4:

[44:14] Did this well let me take you to one of the greatest episodes in snl history i think which is the jack black episode from 2005 that december episode that had you know lazy sunday and all that stuff in it um that really like changed uh you know changed the era of the show and brought on this new golden age and one of the sketches there that uh really cemented you know will's place in the show throughout this golden age is that spelling bee sketch that's very famous well forte moment where they ask him to smell business and he keeps asking questions back and he goes on and on and on and on and it is the ultimate commitment to the bit as he continues to go on Q, M, T, S, D, T, Q, M, P, R, F, T, D, P, D, P, N, H, R, K, T, E, T, F, business.

Track 4:

[45:20] And I think that so many people growing up writing sketch comedy have tried to find a take on this specific sketch.

And I don't know that anyone's ever matched the level at which Will Forte can pull something like the spelling bee sketch off.

It's a very specific type of humor where you're testing how far you can push the joke.

And sometimes so like you're testing the cycle of a joke almost.

So you make the joke. It's funny, funny, funny.

And it hits the peak and then almost becomes less funny.

But then he's still doing it. And it's less funny, less funny.

But then he does it enough to where it circles back around and it's really funny again.

That's a very specific type of thing. A very, I think, maybe possibly brave thing to do on a show like SNL.

I can see people doing that on like, you know, let's make a YouTube video and try this out.

But to do something like that on a show like SNL where you're almost messing with the viewer in some ways and testing their patience.

But there's a really great reward ultimately. I think the spelling bee sketch is a perfect example, especially like the run he goes on of saying Q, I don't know how many times in a row.

Track 4:

[46:32] But you know what's great about something like this is that I don't think there is a person that came before Will Forte that can pull off this sketch as well.

Like you think about uh great like orators in snl history like people like dan akroyd or phil hartman who can just say things really quickly but still make the listener understand them and it's so brilliant at the speed at which they communicate whether it's as a pitchman or even just as a game show host or something like that but will forte can say things slower than the average person and it doesn't sound like too slow where it's not entertaining and that is like a whole other level of brilliance that i don't know that i've seen before prior to well forte yeah his voice it's almost like asmr in a lot of ways like yeah like with this spelling bee one you mentioned tim calhoun and that's one of the things that stood out was almost like a low-key asmr kind delivery with Tim Calhoun.

He was a little bit nervous, but it gets that he's just like whispering, but not.

And just, yeah, it's just that like a very unique delivery.

Track 4:

[47:42] And I had written a note. So Spelling Bee, as far as like testing, see how far you can push the joke.

It also reminded me of something else that he did on Weekend Update when he was, he appeared He appeared with Amy, I think Amy and Seth, in season 34, and he appeared as himself, and he was recapping a Senate vote.

When Friday's tally was finally counted, and that was all she wrote, people asked, how did that pass?

Track 4:

[48:37] So this was an example of him kind of taking a joke so far that maybe it becomes unfunny but then it circles back around so he was he made up this song and recapping how certain how certain senators voted and then amy interrupted him and he's scolding amy about how rude it is to interrupt your friends when they're singing and this reminded me of spelling bee in like how far can Can we push something?

It is really great. I mean, he basically started on SNL when he kept coming on and doing songs with Fred Armisen a couple times and, you know, in different variations of that.

But yeah, he will come on update and do songs on a regular basis throughout his SNL tenure and he will push things to the absolute limit.

And, you know, I think a great sketch to jump to off of this conversation is Fly High Duluth, which to me is like an underrated classic john yes this is uh this good snl podcaster, that's from the scarlett johansson episode and it's basically like a tv talk show where they're like oh we have a band that's finally gonna come out and do the theme song for the show and they just like keep going and going and going with the song where they keep thinking it's over but it's not and will forte is like drinking and going like full rock star with it and it is so brilliant.

I cannot wait to hear what you think of the sketch because I don't get to talk about it enough. Mama.

Track 4:

[50:04] Don't you point that gun at me.

I said, please, Mama.

Track 4:

[50:15] Don't you point that gun at me.

Because my love is consecrated in the blood of the.

Track 4:

[50:36] It's an example to me. Well, by the way, first of all, as an example of the, just the breadth of will for taste sketches, we had mentioned spelling bee.

That was season 31 episode 9 fly high Duluth was season 31 episode 10 so this came like one episode after that like you can look through all his great sketches and like dang that happened those happen like back to back and that happens a lot uh like I'm on my list I'm seeing like back to back to back episodes but yeah fly high Duluth is again one of those where I frequently go back and watch it and it's just again that commitment to the sketch the commitment to the bit it's so So ridiculous.

He's like this Jim Morrison type of guy singing this theme song for a show in Duluth, Minnesota. And he's like...

Track 4:

[51:25] With his with scarlett johansson so his his his lover his his uh what's she line or she tiger i think he called her something like that i think her name is yeah it's like they're wally and char char yeah yeah yeah so it's just like this is a wonderful example to me of like will will forte's commitment to the sketch just doing these ridiculous things chugging which i assume was iced was tea or something like that in a jack daniels bottle uh but no this is one of my favorites and i never get the sense that will forte is is self-conscious even for one split second up there and so to me as a viewer it makes me feel like i'm in good hands with will forte in this sketch yeah absolutely and this is uh this is one that he put together with eric kenward who's is now a producer on the show um but yeah i mean this is a this is another brilliant sketch that you just got to break down it's a very long sketch and sometimes you know my personal preference is not to go too long with sketches unless we're talking about like one of the great debate sketches in snl history that really has like something to say i think then you can push things a little bit which is my opinion but you know i think you know i prefer shorter sketches but the the joke here is that you know will is going to push this and push this as far as it And they've done this a couple times in the talk show format in SNL history where things just like break down to an extreme and you need somebody who can.

Track 4:

[52:53] You know, you can drive the ship when that's happening and not let the sketch go off course to the point where people are like, oh, they're doing the same joke over and over again. And why was it so long? Why did it drag?

Track 4:

[53:05] Will forte never lets that happen he always lets it escalate he always has to get to another point that's interesting like i find that there's never a will for to sketch i'm watching and i'm like ah i wish i saw less of that no you're completely right like by the end of this duluth live sketch like they're doing a full-on breakdown like he's starting and he's kind of seeing the lyrics are kind of weird but you're like okay this is kind of like a weird kind of hippie or 70s rock band doing this but okay like it's kind of weird but then you're right like it escalates and escalates to the point where like Fred's doing this full drum solo and he's shredding on the guitar he's breaking the guitar Will's screaming on the mic like yeah so yeah the escalation this was beautiful beautiful escalation and something that I always look for as an SNL fan uh yeah go check that out that was season 31 episode 10 and we haven't with Will Forte we haven't talked about.

Track 4:

[54:00] Impressions so much or anything i have kind of a maybe a hot somewhat of a hot take for you i actually think i actually think he was a decent george w bush oh okay i i really do and i think it suffered because he had to follow will ferrell's george w bush that was its own thing but i think just in a vacuum i think he could have really made that work because i think he has the type of personality to where he can play understated but he could also say weird things and be squirrely and have that bizarre nature underneath the surface which was george w bush and kind of how will ferrell depicted it but i think it suffered because he had to follow will ferrell but i think in a vacuum and going back to re-watch some of these i was thinking to myself like, a pretty good George W. Bush, honestly. You know, we're roughly $7 billion in debt. But don't worry, I got a plan.

I've decided to consolidate all of our debt with one of those debt consolidation companies.

Track 4:

[55:09] That's right. We're going to go with Dytek.

Like me, you've probably seen their commercials late at night on ESPN2.

You know, the ones with the guy who says, lost another loan did I take?

It's a funny commercial.

I think he's a decent impressionist, and that's a very interesting take.

Now, I think that the decline in the show post-Will Ferrell, I think, gets unfairly associated with the Bush impression a little bit.

And that sort of falls on to people like Will Forte and Sudeikis and Daryl Hammond, who tried to do it for a bit.

Like you know you know i think people were were upset that will ferrell wasn't around anymore, and that was like nobody really gave it a chance um and the show has like a history of not being able to transition over these iconic impressions in a way maybe besides daryl is bill clinton who took that from phil harman i think that maybe is the only exception but yeah i see what you're saying i just don't know that i ever really gave it a chance as much as i loved will forte i wasn't Like, you know, we're talking about like a post 9-11 world where people are pretty down on Bush in general.

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[56:24] And, you know, the, you know, you know, Will Ferrell made Bush lovable because he was like a frat guy.

And that's what he turned him into, like a bro and a frat guy.

And I think that Forte never got the characterization or the writing to be able to turn the sketch and make it something of its own in the way that Will Ferrell had that leash to do. Yeah, you couldn't make the George W.

Bush around when Will Forte was playing him lovable like Will Farrell did.

I'm going to confuse that the whole darn show. Will Farrell, Will Forte.

But so so will forte's uh george w bush i think it it was at a disadvantage because of just where george w bush was as a political figure around that time you know the kind of the whatever paul shine was on him if you could say that was was worn off quite a bit around that time so so you couldn't do the same type of depiction as will ferrell did and i i was like you i didn't really give it a chance but this is just sort of in hindsight kind of re-watching it sort of dawned on me I'm like this could you know it's not like.

Track 4:

[57:33] He was the best impressionist or like mimic but you don't have to be if snl history has taught us anything about impressions is you don't have to sound exactly like the person or even look exactly like the person i think he could have found an angle that i think he had the right personality to do and i saw i saw something in these george w bush impressions impressions that i hadn't really given a chance prior i mean he did it for a while i think he did it for over were he did 20 of them yeah like maybe two years he was doing it so sort of like finished up a little bit of um you know uh george w which is tenure of the show i guess they handed to sudeikis for like that the baton for like a little bit but yeah i don't know i i just i always felt like will forte um like i said he brings such a like a bright light to the show and and stuff like that and i don't think that the country was like very happy in general with bush and you know was looking for a change and like i don't know that um will it wasn't the right place in the right time for him to play him i think ultimately but i love the hot take i think it's a great hot take it's like there's a lot of what-if scenarios like do i think um if well forte was around a couple years earlier could he have played the original like incarnation of bush that's a possibility i think so um but.

Track 4:

[58:49] Well, I think you're right that you mentioned that maybe his George W.

Bush impression unfairly gets lumped in with why the show was struggling around that time.

I agree with that. I think there are a lot of factors. I just think where the country was, where humor was at the time.

And I brought this up a few times on the show around 2000, let's say 2002 to 2005.

Track 4:

[59:11] That was a very weird time for humor in general. It was a lot of edgelord stuff.

It was just a lot of really broad humor, I would say.

And so i think maybe the the show suffered from just where humor was over in our society just in in general look i think i think um our community of like snl diehards looks back at that time, very like unfondly because you know you watch these things off time you go back and you watch these things on a binge and you'll see like all these episodes and you'll see the decline of the the show um and i'm not disqualifying you know people's feelings about those seasons because i would definitely rank them pretty low but i think tina fey often mentions how it was a very hard time to write comedy just like post 9-11 everybody you know nobody wanted to talk about politics you know they i mean the u.s was like invading countries around the world and then potentially invading the wrong countries and like you know there was like all this crazy politics stuff going on that nobody really wants to talk about.

And people want it to, as far as, you know, Tina was concerned is that people wanted to turn on SNL on a Saturday night and not think about these things.

So they focused more of their writing around pop culture.

And the problem when you do that is that the references and the sketches become very dated.

So to go back and watch like season 29 and season 30, um.

Track 4:

[1:00:34] I don't know almost 20 years later you're like this doesn't hold up as well as the things that came before it or the things that came after it so i think there's a lot of things working against it though i will say will forte was a bright spot in a little bit of a dark time of the show yeah breath of fresh air for me definitely and since i'm confusing will ferrell and will forte as probably a lot of people did around that time i want to talk about a sketch that i love that has both of them and when Will Ferrell came back to host in season 30 toward the end of that season it was a sketch called Pepper Grinder oh wow and yeah this is one that I think slips through the cracks for a lot of people too so basically Will Forte's character he and his wife are celebrating their anniversary at dinner and Will Ferrell oddly plays a college student you have to suspend your disbelief there for that real quick and basically will forte's character makes will ferrell's waiter character grind the pepper for a long time to teach him about grit and perseverance and and everything and this is just like to me will is so good at taking an everyday situation to like a dramatic absurdity sir my arm is starting to burn louis that's enough stay out of this jamie this is between me and the boy i can't lose this job sir then keep grinding.

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[1:02:02] Oh god the pain grind son grind oh god oh god it burns please sir please.

Track 4:

[1:02:19] He's working with another master at that, Will Ferrell.

So as a comedy nerd, as an SNL nerd, John, this type of sketch is like a dream for me.

I love this sketch. It's a great one. And it's great seeing like two legends, you know, play off of each other.

This is the type of sketch that you watch as a you know, what we're making when we're putting together a reel of Will Forte sketches, which is essentially what we're doing here.

And then giving this off to the Academy of voters to go vote for Will Forte.

I want the listeners to consider something here, which is watch this sketch and then think about if Will Forte could have fit in any era of the show.

And this is a sketch that shows you why he could have like he could have done this sketch in the original cast by far like that could have fit in really well with a couple people here and showed them you know like i could just picture like a gilda radner sitting across from the table and like a dan akroyd with a pepper grinder like you could picture these things when you see these sketches because he just fits in so well with any cast um because he is such a unique archetype that i think really molds to the people around him so i do feel like that is why hosts it was It was probably their dream to be in a Will Forte sketch because he is such a great scene partner.

Yeah, it was amazing to watch them work. And Rachel Dratch does a really good job with her role and her comments throughout this sketch.

And now that I'm thinking about it and thinking about one of the traits of Will Forte that we've been talking about all episode, I think the pepper grinder sketch really has a bunch of them all wrapped in one. So you have that commitment.

Track 4:

[1:03:44] Completely 100% commitment. You have the escalation. It's what this sketch is built on, is that escalation that you're not quite expecting.

You have the more kind of subtle Will Forte and good line deliveries at the beginning, especially.

You have Will Forte just going nuts and yelling in this sketch.

So I think this Pepper Grinder sketch encompasses encompasses all the like the a lot of the positive traits that we've talked about with will forte john am i wrong to say this is the perfect will forte sketch oh there's so many though that's the problem yeah it's not like you know there's every sketch is the perfect will for i'm just getting excited i'm just using hyperbole at this point too i like it i like it but um yeah i know i agree i think this is a like i said it represents a lot about you know what i like about will forte which which is, this is one of the sketch.

I think there's another sketch that he does that is a comparable sketch to this one.

And this is like later in his career, but I'm just trying to remember.

It's one where he's like, maybe you can place this for me in my mind, but it's one where like, they're trying to decide like, who's going to pick up the check.

And then like, he insists that he's going to pick it up.

Track 4:

[1:04:55] And that one is so, so great.

I need to find where that was. It was called, I got this. I think if you look it up on on YouTube that's from season 35 and it's uh, it was like a game show basically Yeah, that was yes. Okay. You mentioned it's a game show.

Yes It's a game show bill hater was trying to figure out who's gonna settle the bill And I think I honestly think that like that could be the same character from the pepper grinder sketch Like him just playing this like older gentleman about like who's gonna pay the bill and stuff like this and this is um One of it's in one of will's last episodes of a cast member as a cast member, but it's it's a really good sketch, Check still out there gentlemen. I got your money's no good here.

I got this dad Come on, you're getting on in years, and I want to show you my love before you pass.

I got this I'm only 58 I got this you introduced me to jazz.

I got this you helped me to learn eBay. I got this I got my MasterCard right here.

I could just not I got this I got this this is the woman I will be buried next to she comforts me when my hernia acts up the least I can do for this blessed angel is Is buyer spaghetti on her birthday? I got this!

Track 4:

[1:06:04] Impressive! Good rat! When people complain, like, they see, oh, another game show sketch.

I think the game show format is perfect for a sketch comedy show.

Especially, you could talk about technical reasons, blocking, the way the studio's set up, all of that.

But I don't scoff at game show sketches just because they're game show sketches.

We've had a lot of really clever ones recently this is an example and you just have to have the right premise and the right performers and we certainly had that especially with the premise of this and with will forte my problem the game show sketches is just that people don't really they're like aren't that many new game shows that's the problem right but i guess that's the you know evolution yeah that's why you invent a game show called like i got this yeah yes but But yeah, this is a great sketch.

I think, you know, Thomas, we talked about how great of a great of a performer is Will is with performing with basically anybody.

But I do think that he's also built chemistry with cast members that he has seen as like his ultimate scene partners.

Track 4:

[1:07:10] And that may have developed like later in his career, so much so that I wish he could have stayed on the show more.

But I think that him and Jason Sudeikis on the show together is an all time duo that people talk about and still reference to this day of like oh that could be a forte in sudeikis.

Track 4:

[1:07:27] And we haven't even talked about any of their sketches together where they are so brilliant um i'll start with the espn guys the pete twinkle and greg stink you know this is a sketch that sort of premiered like very late in will forte's uh career at the show where i think it was in his last season this is season 35 and then we get it a bunch of times in that season but it's all like, espn classic so if that like does that channel still exist by the way it's been classic or did they retire that yeah i think it does okay yeah so basically in classic it's where i watched the like 85 bears on espn classic nice yeah i didn't know if it still exists with like youtube being around but basically so espn classic um you go on and you see like all of these like random sports like you know pool and bowling darts curling um shadow curling i i did that once um a couple times um but the uh and basically like pete twinkle and greg stink jason and will are the commentators and you know sudeikis is like your brilliant classic like espn play-by-play guy and will forte as greg stink is the color commentator and he always like heads over to him to say something and he has like nothing to say and their back and forths are incredible Wow, look at this, look at that. Oh, and quite a shot!

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[1:08:48] Unbelievable, look at that! Oh, a big kick. Oh, she loves God.

She loves God. Greg, how many points do you think she gets for a shot like that? Oh, I don't know, five?

Nope. Okay. You just kind of pulled that number out of thin air, didn't you, buddy?

Well, you put me on the spot I did not know what to say, so I looked down at my hand, I saw five fingers, and I went for it. I love it, I gotcha.

Why is it so cold in here? Well, we're in an ice ring, buddy.

Track 4:

[1:09:14] And I know this is a Will thing, like a Will podcast, but also like Jason's ad reads to me are like some of the funniest things I've ever seen on the show.

But just their brilliance together.

All time great sketch. What do you think of that one?

Yeah, Will Forte is so brilliant at playing dim-witted but likable.

He says dumb things, but you root for him as much as you could root for that character in a four-minute sketch.

Track 4:

[1:09:40] But you really root for Greg Stink. And he just plays off just being oblivious, being dim-witted.

This is another one of those where the delivery and the line read needs to be perfect.

You can't stumble or else it loses that pop in the sketch.

And there I brought this up I forgot maybe it was in the Jason Sudeikis episode but these Greg Stink and Pete Twinkle sketches I think set a template for for some at least one other duo that we saw on SNL it reminded me of the Don Jr.

And Eric Trump dynamic okay so to where one of them was very dim-witted being Eric Trump and Greg Stink and then Pete Twinkle was almost like the Don Jr.

To where he wasn't judging the other person he was almost just sort of like playing off of him and just correcting him but like in a nice way in like a friendly way like in an I love you sort of way so I think that this dynamic between like Jason and Will Forte is just like ripe for for comedy it's such a cool dynamic that I think we saw in Eric and Don Jr.

Track 4:

[1:10:47] I agree with that because I don't think that again, I don't know that this has been done really well before it.

Like I think of like, you know, Dan Aykroyd and Steve Martin, I think they're more even even seen partners.

I think Eddie and Joe, they're more even seen partners.

And I'd even say like Mike Myers and Dana Carvey, like Wayne's World sketches, even though Dana plays plays it more dumb a little bit.

Track 4:

[1:11:09] I still think that like they're closer to even than what we get here between Jason and Will in this particular sketch.

Sketch and i i do think it's set a template that is a good really good point of what came after it and i know it's something that like james austin johnson and dismukes would like love to find and maybe that's like the missing element is just being able to like be like one person in the duo has to like put the ego aside and play the dumb one right in the duo to be able to pull this off yeah it doesn't it's fine if there's like a power imbalance because that can be ripe for comedy, So I think we saw that perfectly.

It was that dynamic between Sue Dacus and Will Forte with Pete Twinkle and Greg Stink.

These are one, they did these, I think, six times and all of them just hit.

They're like home runs each time.

Your girl, Kristen Wiig, we all love her. She's great.

This is where she's like a great silent actor.

I know I brought up that point in our Kristen Wiig episode, but this sketch right here is where Kristen Wiig's like a perfect silent actor.

Just wonderful sketches all around. Everybody compliments each other so well.

Track 4:

[1:12:15] Yeah. And that leads me to the other great Jason and Will sketch, which I don't know if you want to bring it up or you want me to do it.

But we got to talk about John Bovey, of course. Oh, yes. Yes.

Are you a John Bovey guy? Yeah, I am. Speaking of setting a template.

But yeah, no, these were these were great.

So stupid that I was on board immediately.

All right, here we go. Two, three, four. Because I'm an Indian.

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[1:12:40] Indian. On a cotton horse I do not ride And I'm unwanted.

Track 4:

[1:12:47] Alive and dead Alive and dead Alive and dead.

Track 4:

[1:13:01] Boom!

Honestly, just like looking at a still picture picture of will forte's face as like the member of john bovie is so hilarious with the mustache and the long hair this is like pure joy as this is as good as it gets with like you know just you know the party of snl and feeling like you're invited to like the greatest party in the world is like watching these two of your friends just like hang out and be so stupid and silly and just like sing these bon jovi songs as john bovie that they're all like the opposite band and um Um, I, to me, every time it was popped up, I just like ate it right up.

Track 4:

[1:13:43] Yeah, it's got to the point where I associate the band and the artist Bon Jovi with this, where I have to remind myself that the actual real person's name isn't John Bovey.

Yes, that's how closely I associate. I see John Bovey and I'm like, well, that's how it is. Right.

Oh, no, no, no. It's Bon Jovi. But you're right. Also, it's because like John Bon Jovi.

Yeah. And then there's a whole like, yeah, yeah.

Layers to that. You're right. There's like like two of our friends just being dumb. Like I could see just at a party and they're just like entertaining people and like, oh, these guys are so stupid.

But and, you know, the beat like you see them up there and you know what they're going to do. But it's still like a fun surprise as to how they do it.

That that that takes a real performer to to make you laugh, even though you you know the beats, you see it coming from a mile away and you still laugh.

Track 4:

[1:14:32] Yeah. And I see like people on like SNL Twitter, like being like, you know, bringing up Remember Lizards.

This is like the jason and uh the uh james austin johnson and andrew dismukes version of this sketch and i'm like you guys you don't know how like good it is to have something like this like i i love that they did that by the way like i'm one of the ones who didn't mind that they did that but uh but like uh to me like this is the the pinnacle of you know just stupid and it's it's so great to have that on saturday live and i wish we got more of that honestly yeah yeah that was so good and i realized so we're about an hour in and i don't know if jd's yelling at us right now but i don't care jd this is a special episode for us we're about an hour in and we haven't talked about mcgruber at all and this is maybe the thing he's most known for this spawned what i think is a hilarious movie and we have not talked about yeah yeah and and he did it nine times and of And of course, he did it 27 times, probably, essentially, because they were all three-part runners, basically. And yeah, that's...

Track 4:

[1:15:38] What do you think of mcgruber john yeah first of all jd this is our playground like let us let us do our thing here we're cooking uh but uh i love mcgruber mcgruber was the thing that like when mcgruber would come on and we were watching the show live in high school there would be audible cheers in the room like sometimes like i gotta talk sometimes about like my snl history and like um we would be like like my friends and i loved saturday night live so much that we would be this is like before we were old enough to like go out to clubs and like drink we would like have house parties with our friends and we'd have like a lot of people in our high school grade over and snl would be on the tv in the living room and like i'd always be like somewhere nearby so i could like see what was happening and not feel like the fomo of not having watched it and as it's happening so like two things would happen during this era that would just like make the bit like make the house shake one snl digital short pops up number two was mcgruber theme song comes on and people would be like everyone would sing like mcgruber like as that would come on and it was just like nobody like we were young like we didn't like get the whole like macgyver like the whole thing like we didn't we didn't get it but like knowing what i know now it's it's just like a brilliant portrayal of like this characterization and obviously we're gonna get like at one point the real macgyver i mean there's so many good variations of this including like betty white and everybody but But yeah, this is like his most well-known character.

Track 4:

[1:17:05] And it like, it only took us an hour to get here because there's so many other brilliant things on his resume.

But it doesn't take away from the fact that these sketches or like blackout jokes really, because this is like the pinnacle of a blackout, you know, joke on SNL, are amazing.

They're amazing. And it's like really the last real runner we've ever had at the show.

Track 4:

[1:17:26] Damn, this door is locked from the outside. As soon as that liquid hydrogens release this baby's going to blow sky high! What's the plan, MacGruber?

I want to kiss you on the mouth. What? Ten seconds!

Okay, okay, quickly. April, hand me the guitar. Give me the guitar, give me the guitar. Come on. Okay, check this out.

Groober, I got ten inches of lovin' And I wanna give it to ya Are you drunk?

Groober, okay, maybe it's not ten But it's certainly seven Come on, man, do something!

Groober, okay, it's more like five.

Track 4:

[1:18:10] You alluded to something when you mentioned, oh, he did one with Betty White or Richard Dean Anderson, the real MacGyver, Charles Barkley, something really important about recurring characters and this, that this one didn't fall into that trap is diminishing returns.

And that, that's a really huge topic amongst SNL fans. And Lisa from Temecula recently has been, you know, we've talked about the concept of diminishing returns possibly as far as that goes.

Track 4:

[1:18:38] MacGruber didn't suffer from that. I don't think there was diminishing returns in these that I could remember. It seemed like all of them basically hit.

I mean, yeah, you're talking to the wrong person if you want to argue with me that they didn't. Because I think that like these to me were so hilarious.

And I think that it was a great level of escalation.

And I really feel like the formatting of these is like one of the last great things about traditional television, which was like we talk a lot now on the SNN about, you know, what what are the producers at SNL like really thinking about when they produce a new season of Saturday Night Live, like all the way now in the 2020s?

And like, is the show being produced for somebody to watch it every Saturday night at 1130 to 1am?

Or is it being produced in smaller doses for people to watch on TikTok and YouTube?

Track 4:

[1:19:31] And I think that you can't produce these sketches in the new format of the show, potentially, because then you have to put them back to back in like a YouTube video, which is often what they did.

And I think that takes away a little bit from the MacGruber sketches, which was the the having to wait to see what's going to happen later on in the episode made these sketches even better.

Like you would have to go like 25 minutes before you saw the next MacGruber or if it like is there going to be another one? Like what's the next escalation here?

And I just love like the playing with the format in modern times that they were able to do with these sketches.

That's a great point that I never thought of. But you're absolutely right.

Like kids these days. Am I right? instant gratification and whatnot like yeah yeah they don't they don't get it yeah they just don't get it no you know that's such a good point though and i will i want to see yeah as snl fans we have like these these lists that we want to see this and that and i'm with you on runners like i love.

Track 4:

[1:20:31] Runners like there's an there's another example like the closet organizer oh man yeah with with john ham like in john ham's episode like that that was a really that's an unexpected runner and that was a different kind of runner that with the closet organizer but i yeah yeah i mean that that is something that like i feel like they would never do now but and they wouldn't even like really do that in 2010 like that was so unique that they allowed will forte to do something like that where like he appears as the closet organizer in the john ham episode and then like in a different sketch later in the night like he meets the guy from the closet organizer at a bar and like that's something that they would do in like the late 80s maybe not in 2010 but i.

Track 4:

[1:21:19] Think that lauren at the time probably was like we're gonna give this to will because like it's so brilliant yeah from john john ham that was a great episode uh we covered john ham in in the snl hall of fame but yeah that was like a brilliant another little brilliant piece of physical acting writing especially that will forte did before we kind of start heading to the home stretch and closing this out we can do like a little lightning round unless you have something else before the lightning round no we'll do the lightning round but i was gonna say uh jd i'm keeping thomas here forever because we're just gonna keep going and going i'm pumped yes yeah uh so i want to do like a little lightning round if you have like one or two sketches that people should just go check out i have a couple if you have a couple uh we'll start with you and just kind of briefly like Like just maybe one or two more sketches that people should check out if they want to know Will Forte.

Track 4:

[1:22:13] Sure. Yeah. I mean, one of my favorite sketches from his era at the show was a sketch that involved like most of the cast.

And it was a series of sketches where there would be a toast at like a wedding or a funeral or something like that.

And you get all these characters from different cast members who would show up there and they would recur.

Occur um we did see this a little bit in a recent era but it wasn't as to the brilliance of like what these cast members would do and involved will forte playing a character named hamilton who's this like super far right guy who like comes up the microphone and whispers about how like.

Track 4:

[1:22:47] Like obama shouldn't be president and like he's like the devil and like all these things and it's like it's so weird in retrospect because like we've seen in real life over the last like 10 years like a lot of hamiltons like pop up but like at the time i think like things weren't so serious and like will forte could play this guy on the show and he plays it like with this blonde wig looking so crazy with the glasses and everything that and it to me i laugh so much at this especially one of the sketches where he admits that he's like in a relationship with gabourey sedebe yeah it's so great and i think seth myers that'd be like a jan krang like ad bryant's character like that type of that archetype of just somebody yeah i mean in a like a public setting i know jan krang was played bigger than yeah than hamilton but but that's kind of where my mind went yeah see those are more like catchphrase jokes to me like the whole like jan and krang like that's like that whereas like this is all like in the world building that is brilliant about this character which is like you only need like 30 seconds with the character to know everything about them and like that is something that will force it does really well and one of the it's one of the characterizations of like i think some of the greats in snl history i know this is the lightning round but i just i have to say like i love this sketch, so so much so much so that i think uh i think seth meyers had will forte do hamilton at his wedding.

Track 4:

[1:24:15] Really yes and you could look up that clip online i think he talked about that and they showed a clip on late night of him doing it there and talking about why his wife should not be marrying him and it is as good as it gets like you got to check that out i'm gonna check that out and you had another one um well yeah i was gonna say uh clancy t baccarat like i know we didn't bring it up i don't know if i know these sketches aren't for everybody but like him and kristen wigg just, Yeah, screaming and yelling, singing Easter songs or whatever it is about spaceships, tall doors, model T cars and jars of beer.

Those always crack me up. And again, he's in his like full like crazy hairdo, all that stuff.

To me, you know, the two of them, we talked about him and Jason Sudeikis, but.

Track 4:

[1:25:00] Him and kristen wig i think are another brilliant team that i just wish we got a couple more years from so another great sketch yeah well we had a whole episode of snl where that was will forte and kristen wig uh recently so that's true i was the one i was one of the ones who didn't mind that as much yeah it was a weird episode i won't dwell on his hosting gig too much but it was very bizarre but i did enjoy the when they brought back the clancy t baccarat character yes uh yeah so so can i just say about that episode because i i do think like it's it's interesting for some of the listeners who maybe weren't like following our coverage at the time of that um why that episode was so weird and unique was that like i was doing the stats on that episode like the day after and i was like that episode felt so weird and i just like couldn't figure out why and i love will forte and then i realized that that was the first episode since the second episode of the series where paul simon hosted the show where no cast member was in more than two segments I went through every episode, all 900 and something.

Track 4:

[1:26:00] And no regular cast member was in more than a couple of things.

And that was such a unique situation that it almost felt like a clip show, in a way.

It wasn't like a new episode of season 47 of SNL, and nobody will catch me complaining about more Will Forte, but it was just a very unique episode that people were excited to see how Will Forte was gonna fit with this cast and what he was gonna do.

Track 4:

[1:26:24] But it ended up being like a lot of MacGruber and like, you know, small sketches with a couple of cast members. And I think like a lot of people had a night off.

Yeah. Yeah. So whether you thought it was a good episode or a bad episode, it was definitely a memorable episode. Very unique episode.

So I'll give it that for sure. Two that I wanted to shout out were he did these he did that these three times.

It was called First Night Out. So I think he was him and Kristen. in he played this guy named neil and they would basically try to rope somebody in to do a three way with them and it just his delivery about calmly explaining how a sexual encounter will unfold between the three of them like and then you show like the they're they're meeting at the beginning of the night and then they have more drinks and they even show like the hand on the clock like move like it's later in the night and then they're going from talking about regular things to will forte's exploit calmly explaining to them just in a matter of fact way about you're you're going to do this and then I'll come in and do that.

And just, I found that just, just so like subtly bizarre.

Track 4:

[1:27:23] So, so I wanted to shout those out. Do you remember though? I'm sure you remember those, John. Oh man, those are, those are really great.

There's so many good Will Forte things. I mean, it's hard to bring up everything, but yeah, those are really great sketches.

And I, in particular, I think they did a very good one. I'm going to say it was with either Lindsay Lohan.

I think they did one with Rainn Wilson. Lindsay Lohan was in one.

Yeah. Rainn Wilson also. I think they did a good one there.

Steve Martin. And I remember that one was a little bit weird.

But yeah, those are some good ones.

Yeah. And then there's a one-off. So I talked about how I love his one-offs.

And there was one he did with Drew Barrymore and Kristen Wiig called Poison Therapy. Okay. Season 32.

Track 4:

[1:27:59] And Will's character, he and his wife are in marriage counseling.

And Kristen Wiig plays the marriage counselor. And he's married to Drew Barrymore.

And they're talking just in this matter-of-fact way about how Drew Barrymore likes to poison him. and he's and Will Forte almost plays he plays it so small and subtle and so funny he's almost like.

Track 4:

[1:28:22] Like excusing his wife for poisoning him and and kristen's really playing it well too and she's saying as a matter of fact like so why do you think that is and then drew barrymore is like well i do poison him so i understand why he feels that way and then will forte is like oh you do you understand so he's all happy so it's just this very great scene in a marriage counselor's office called poison therapy kristen wigg will forte drew barrymore i want to encourage people to go watch that one as well yes oh i got one more by the way sorry jd but i gotta you know we can't end this episode without bringing up gully i mean just you know will forte making those sketches as great as they are with his you know mr dylan uh you know i think those sketches like lost their luster a little bit after he left the show so uh for me that is uh one of the better you know characters within the world of another sketch yeah will forte's delivery lives on like when When everybody thinks about those sketches, I think they're thinking they're imagining Kristen dancing, but they're also thinking about Will's delivery with the ghillie.

So that's a good that's a good pull, John.

Track 4:

[1:29:27] So post SNL, because I know and especially when you look at cast members, you kind of like to look at post SNL and we already covered his hosting stint.

But after SNL, he started MacGruber, which came out around the same time as he finished the final season of SNL, like literally the same month.

I think he starred in The Last Man on Earth from 2015 to 2018, which is a show that I stand by.

He's got some good laughs out of that show.

He tends to pop up everywhere in TV and movies as well. He's one of those.

He's almost like a Maya Rudolph in a way where he's just like pops up in a lot of things.

So have you enjoyed Will Forte's post SNL career? Like, what do you make of it?

Yeah, I also enjoyed him on 30 Rock. He had to run there as well.

I think it's like Jenna's boyfriend that.

Track 4:

[1:30:10] Yeah, I mean, look, anytime he pops up in anything, I love to watch it.

Last Man on Earth to me was a great show that didn't get enough press.

Track 4:

[1:30:17] And when it got canceled, I was really upset about it because it had like a really good story about the end of the world.

And then I ended up going to see Will Forte at Just for Laughs.

And then he told us like how the show was intended to be finished. finished um and i was like if you if you know me like i i hate that stuff like i hate not knowing so for like close the book so if anybody wants to know like reach out i'll let you know like how that how that was going to finish i'll definitely ask you when we when we hit stop here yeah i don't want to like read it for anybody in case i don't want to but i did i do know that how the show was going to end if they had a last season um yeah so i mean like i've really enjoyed everything i've seen him in anytime before today does like a an interview or something like that i check it out i i sort of like knew that like coming off this career on the show like i think that this was his playground and there would not necessarily be outlets for his type of comedy out there unless he was going to produce his own show or have his own special or something like that i think like the tim robinson format is maybe something we could have gotten from will forte at some point um if he had wanted to go that route like if there wasn't netflix that was paying for those types of things i think that maybe that's something that he could have envisioned post his career but i don't know i mean look he's at an okay post career uh from snl but i like i said i think that snl was his you know was his playground and he was a master when he was on the field yeah i agree with that i think uh he was destined to be like a character actor kind of he plays that really well he's always memorable and whatever.

Track 4:

[1:31:44] He appears in snl you're right that was his playground and he did it really well so i agree with you i think i think i've enjoyed his his post SNL career and I think he's doing what he was kind of destined to do uh so now's the time I don't know why you wouldn't vote Will Forte into the SNL Hall of Fame I'm gonna I want to talk to somebody who yeah maybe maybe on our upcoming roundtable there might be uh one or two stragglers there but uh so John you want to give us a little uh pitch to end the show why you think SNL Hall of Fame voters should consider casting a vote for Will Forte.

Track 4:

[1:32:21] Yeah, I think he left his mark on the show that, you know, everyone who's come since has always been compared to, you know, people are always like looking for the next Will Forte.

Track 4:

[1:32:32] I don't think there's an easy comparison for anyone before him.

So he lives in his own world in terms of the history of the show.

I think he built things on the show in terms of, you know, time within the show.

That is the Will Forte, you know, area for people to go and play and be weird.

And I think he changed the show. Like one of these things I like to think about or talk about when I'm voting for the Hall of Fame is if you pull this person out of the timeline, out of SNL history, is SNL the same? Is it better? Is it worse?

And I think SNL is a much worse series without Will Forte in it for those eight seasons, you know, just being absolutely crazy to the nth degree.

Agree so you know if you listen to this whole show for an hour plus of thomas and i just going on and on about how great he is you'll know that there were just character after character moment after moment in every one of the seasons that he just crushed and i i think that you know going back and re-watching his career at the show you are going to find yourself looking for a will forte moment in an episode that's going to brighten your day and he's going to give it to you so he is is absolutely made for the SNL Hall of Fame and deserves to be in there.

Track 2:

[1:33:59] Made for the SNL Hall of Fame, Will Forte, an impassioned argument from our friend John Schneider, facilitated expertly by Thomas Senna.

I got to tell you that I think he's a Hall of Famer.

I don't think he's a first ballot Hall of Famer.

He just doesn't have that gravitas. While I agree with John that the show would be very different and it would be different in a negative way without him, I do think that he wasn't ever the fulcrum on which the show pivoted.

And that may hurt his case just a little bit.

But you just heard 90 minutes from Thomas and John. John, and if that doesn't convince you, then I don't know what will. Maybe a sketch.

Maybe we should go to a sketch right now. How do you like them apples?

So let's go to a sketch called Trick or Treat. This appeared on an episode hosted by John Hamm. Let's go to it now.

Track 5:

[1:35:11] Here is a Snickers for each of you. And for old time's sake, how about a Charleston Chew?

Thank you, Mr. Peterson. Happy Halloween.

Track 5:

[1:35:34] Trick or treat. Can I help you?

Well, that depends. Do you have any Kit Kat bars? Heck, I'll take anything without toffee. It's a real bitch on the fillings.

Hey, don't call me a bitch. You're the bitch, bitch. What?

Seriously though, trick or treat. Aren't you a little old to be trick or treating?

Wait, is 43 too old to be in the Halloween spirit? And by spirit, I don't mean ghost. Heck, I'm not that old. What?

I realize this is a little unusual, but, you know, I just moved into the neighborhood, and, you know, I figured I'd use trick-or-treating as an excuse to get out and make some new friends.

I apologize for being so awkward.

No, you know, that's quite all right. That wasn't very neighborly of me, and I apologize.

Bob Peterson. Jeff Montgomery. Pleasure to meet you.

You know, this doesn't excuse my behavior, but I hope you'll accept a Reese's peanut butter cup.

Bob, I couldn't think of a better welcoming gift. Thank you.

And just out of curiosity, what exactly is your Halloween costume? I'm a sex offender.

Track 5:

[1:36:53] Excuse me? I'm a sex offender. For Halloween.

A sex offender. Yes, pretty convincing, huh? Here, watch this. I'm Jeff Montgomery.

By law, I'm required to inform you that I'm a repeat sex offender.

And I'll be living in your neighborhood.

It's a great costume, right?

Could you sign and date these, please?

Track 5:

[1:37:19] What am I signing? You will get a big kick out of this.

You see, as part of my costume, I'm having everyone sign this form acknowledging that there's a sex offender living in the neighborhood, et cetera, et cetera.

Let's just be clear on something here. Is sex offender your Halloween costume, or are you fulfilling a legal obligation to declare yourself a sex offender?

Bob, lighten up! It's Halloween!

Huh? Besides, this is a tradition. You know, I do this every time I move to a new town.

Are you, Jeff Montgomery, a sex offender?

Am I, Jeff Montgomery, a registered sex offender on Halloween?

Yes. What about not on Halloween?

Yes, even when it's not Halloween, I'm still Jeff Montgomery.

A sex offender. Look, you're missing the point here, Bob.

The point is Halloween spirit. The point is trick-or-treat. The point is, could you sign those papers?

All right, okay. You know, last chance, and I will check with the police on this.

Do you have a criminal record?

Absolutely not. Look, if I am guilty of any crime, it's the crime of sexually assaulting five teenagers.

Track 5:

[1:38:41] Okay, now this is going to sound like a terrible segue, but are you looking for a babysitter? Happy Halloween!

What? What?

Track 2:

[1:38:55] Oh, Jeff Montgomery in a sketch called Trick or Treat, street registered sex offender um you know it's uh it's sort of a third rail and the way forte and company executed they did it in a way that had a lot of comedic value and i think that uh that just shows it really showcases Forte's knack for taking the absurd and the awkward and milking the comedy out of them where a lot of people might not see that comedy so there's that.

Track 2:

[1:39:39] Hope you enjoyed yourself this week I can't believe it but we've only got two episodes left Next week we're going to be talking about Kate McKinnon fresh on the ballot and we will be talking to Ashley Bauer about Kate McKinnon and building the case for her inclusion in the SNL Hall of Fame.

We'll follow that on May the 6th with the Don Pardo Award winner and we're really excited to present that to you this year.

That will be the same day that the ballots are distributed and voting is open voting will run until may 17th and we will wrap up the whole season five on may 20th with an extravaganza the likes of which you've never seen before now if you would do me a favor and on your way out as you pass the Weekend Update exhibit, turn out the lights.

Track 2:

[1:40:38] Because the SNL Hall of Fame is now closed.

We're back in the Hall after a hectic week with the whole foot-wiping thing. At any rate we're thrilled to welcome Rebecca North to the show to relitigate the case for Maya Rudolph who is appearing on her last ballot. Check it out and get ready to start voting May, 6th.

Transcript:

Track 2

[0:41] Thank you so much, Doug Donets. It is great to be here inside the SNL Hall of Fame with you all.

Now, careful listeners of the show pointed out to me that I didn't remind you

to wipe your feet last week. It's not lost to me.

I truly thought I had solidified my stance on this matter to the extent that

it would become the norm.

But alas, if you are paying for the pay-per-view feed right right now,

you can see that I'm holding a mop.

Jeepers, creepers, peoples, wipe your damn feet.

The SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair where each episode we take a

deep dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest,

or writer and add them to the ballot for your consideration.

Once the nominees have been announced, we turn to you, the listener,

to vote vote for the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined

for perpetuity in the hall.

And that's how we play the game.

Let's go to our friend Matthew Ardill right now, because the game that we like

to play is learning a little bit about our nominee.

And that's exactly what we're going to do.

Let me just put this mop down and okay.

Oh gosh, I'm parched. There's something going on with my voice.

Track 3

[1:59] Matthew, old man. How are you doing this week? I am good, thanks. And you?

I'm a little shaky in the voice, it seems.

Well, maybe you need some water. Let me take a sip of this water.

That's better. It is delicious. We talked about water last week.

We'll put a pin in it until next week.

We don't want to give away the farm, as it were.

Maya Rudolph, huh? Yeah. I mean, I'm really looking forward to sharing about

Maya's life. She is an incredible character.

This is interesting because this is her last kick at the can.

If she doesn't get in this time, and I believe she was hovering around 58% or

59%, so she needs almost 10% to get in, 10% more to get in.

And if she doesn't get in, she's off the ballot.

That would be a shame because she is an incredible performer and a hilarious person.

So take this as a war egg, not telling people how to vote, but just be mindful

of that folks. This is your last chance. Yeah.

Track 3

[3:16] Well, let's hear some, uh, trivia to maybe sway some people.

Yeah. Yeah, Maya Rudolph is 5'7", birthday July 27th, 1972.

She has 118 acting credits, 12 producer credits, 2 writing credits,

and 30 soundtrack credits.

She was born in Gainesville, Florida, but was raised in L.A.,

the daughter of singer Minnie Ripperton and composer Richard Rudolph.

Off her mother is the singer of the song loving you

uh which i've now three times brought up

to my wife and every every time we hear it and she goes if you're gonna tell

me maya rudolph's mom saying this one more time i'm gonna throw a saw throw

a pillow at you but yeah she did and uh in fact if you listen to the single

you can hear her singing maya maya maya maya because this is a lullaby Bye.

Track 3

[4:13] That she wrote for Maya and was used to sing her to sleep. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. Now, and her grandfather on her father's side, Sidney J.

Rudolph, owned all of the Wendy's and Rudy's restaurants in Dade County, Florida.

Track 3

[4:29] So he was a- I know Rudy's, but Wendy's, that would be amazing.

I love Wendy's. Fast food entrepreneur. entrepreneur.

She was childhood friends with Gwyneth Paltrow, and their families were actually

very close to the point that her dad was hired by Bruce Paltrow to supervise music on his film Duets.

Music runs in her blood. Her brother is also in the music industry as an engineer.

When she was seven or eight, this is actually when she fell in love with comedy.

She saw a friend hurt themselves and start crying, so she started doing a funny

voice that made them laugh. And she thought to herself, this is much better than feeling bad.

I want to make her feel good. And that's sort of been her philosophy going forward.

She studied photography at University of Santa Cruz and formed a band called

Super Sauce with classmates before joining the band The Rentals,

which was fronted by Matt Sharp.

Matt Sharp, yeah. Yeah, they released several singles, including Seven More

Minutes, Barcelona, and My Head is in the Sun.

She toured singing. Oh, you got to say Friends of P.

Track 3

[5:40] Friends of P. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, she toured singing backup and playing Moog synthesizer.

Friends with P. Sorry. I apologize. There you go. Sorry.

Yeah. But when the band broke up, she actually decided to start pursuing comedy

and joined the Groundlings. Yeah.

Track 3

[5:59] She has been in two Oscar-nominated films and has indicated her dream reboot

would be to either remake Tootsie or play Violet or Dora Lee in a 9-to-5 reboot.

I want that 9-to-5 reboot.

Oh, that feels like low-hanging fruit. Like, in a good way.

Track 3

[6:20] How has that not been done? Exactly. This is a fall guy, for heaven's sake.

Yeah, like I said, low-hanging fruit in that it's so obviously awesome. Yeah.

Track 3

[6:29] So it's like, why would you not do that? And I can just imagine her singing

the song too, like the, we're gonna do fun. Like, it'd just be beautiful.

Yeah. So she later formed a Prince cover band called Princess with her friend

Gretchen Lieberum in 2011.

And Prince himself was a big fan. Oh my gosh.

So this shows there's no bad blood over the Prince show sketch.

Sketch um now she she first

the first time she actually met prince was on a five-hour plane

ride uh he asked if they had met before

and she thought he must have confused her with someone else but he later came

back and asked if her baby sang to her and she said yeah she makes noise all

the time prince responded maybe that's your mom the first time i saw your mom

was on the mike douglas show So I shed a tear.

So Prince was just such a beautiful human being.

There's like a connection there between the two of them. I'm speechless.

I'm speechless right now. Well, I mean, that's how Prince leaves everyone at

one point or another, you know, just does something so miraculous and wild and

awesome that you're just like, I've got no words.

No words at all. Well, we have a lot more words, though, coming your way in

a conversation between Thomas and Rebecca North.

Track 3

[7:55] This should be a good one, Matt. Yeah, looking forward to it.

So let's head down to Thomas now.

Track 4

[8:30] All right, Matt and JD, thank you so much. Yes, we are talking about somebody

who has been a very beloved cast member who has been on the ballot since season one.

So this is like one of those very special episodes of the SNL Hall of Fame where

we get to almost re-litigate or re-examine somebody's candidacy.

Somebody who I'm surprised isn't already in the SNL Hall of Fame because this

person's so beloved. So I'm excited today to chat about Maya Rudolph and joining

me a first timer here on the SNL Hall of Fame podcast.

Track 4

[9:06] Rebecca North is joining me to chat about Maya Rudolph. Rebecca, how are you doing today?

I'm good, Thomas. I'm happy to be here. This is my first time,

so I'm excited to voice my opinions about someone who I'm shocked.

It's been five seasons now and still has not made it to the Hall of Fame,

and that was groundbreaking to me.

So I'm here to vouch for Maya and kind of talk through her career and history on SNL.

So I can't wait. Yeah, we'll dig in to see why she might not be.

We'll definitely try to make another case for her Hall of Fame candidacy for

sure. And you're a great person to come on and talk with me about this.

You and I were teammates a long time ago, two years ago on the Saturday Night Network's trivia.

We did a little trivia together. So I don't know that we won.

We were going up against Bill Kenney and stuff and he dominated us.

But that's how we first came in contact.

And you've been doing stuff over at the Saturday Night Network off and on.

What have you been up to over at the S&N recently?

Track 4

[10:14] Yeah, I was actually thinking about that. That was my first episode on SNN as

a guest for trivia. And we did get annihilated.

But it was fun. I feel like very insightful. Like I learned a lot through that.

When I was signed up, I was like, Oh, it's gonna be a piece of cake.

And then no, we were up against people who have been watching for live for a

million years and rewatch it and do all that.

So that was fun. But yeah, I'm over at the SNN Saturday Night Network.

And I'm going on a lot of those roundtables recapping the episode.

And just really enjoying this season leading up to season 50 of SNL,

which is going to be a huge one.

So loving kind of the gap bridging between, like, millennials and Gen Z.

Track 4

[10:57] Specifically on the show and the writing staff.

So this has been, like, an exciting kind of transitional season for that at

least I'm viewing, where some of the guests are people that most of the viewers

have never heard of, but they're really exciting to me.

So I'm excited to get really just into SNL this season.

Yeah, it's been a really interesting season. I like hearing you on the hot take

shows and the roundtables because I think you and I often share similar sensibilities

and similar opinions with the show.

And I think your opinions are, they're mostly positive, they're fair,

but you're not like, you're not just going to say everything's great.

That's what I like. You have a discerning eye for this. So I think your voice

on the S&N and the roundtables and such, I think is a really nice perspective,

Rebecca. So I'm glad you're sharing that perspective with us today.

Yeah, thank you, Thomas. I

also know we both have a shared love for pop culture and all things there.

So it's going to be exciting to talk about someone who was on the show and is

really just pivotal in pop culture, I think.

Like, as far as some of those, not earlier, but, like, middle of SNL cast members

go, I think Maya is definitely someone we've seen, is very well known just in the world.

And people that have never even watched SNL know Maya Rudolph.

It's just a name, which is why I'm so shocked that season five,

she's still not in the Hall of Fame. I know. She pops up everywhere, too.

Like, so many shows that I watch, like, is it the –.

Track 4

[12:25] The Good Place. Yes. I didn't even expect her to pop up in The Good Place,

and she played the judge.

And my wife and I were like, oh my gosh, Maya Rudolph. We were so excited.

She just does that. She's just omnipresent in pop culture.

I was actually going to reference that when I was thinking about her before

this. It was such a small character, but had such an impact on The Good Place.

I really loved that. I'm glad you brought that one up. No, absolutely.

That's what she does. Maya just pops up, and then everybody,

we all get excited to see Maya on her screen.

She's like an electric performer. Rebecca, I'm curious about,

since you're a first-timer here on the show, you've never, you know,

haven't shared, obviously, your SNL fandom with us. So tell us about, like, your SNL fandom.

When did you start watching the show? Any particular cast members or casts in general? role?

Track 4

[13:11] So I watched the show a lot. It was very big in my household.

My parents aren't super fans, but they don't miss an episode.

They watch every Saturday night.

No matter what they would do, they would have it on TiVo. I remember growing

up and then DVR to watch it just every Saturday night.

They go to sleep after the news and watch the rest the next day.

And I think around high schools when I started to appreciate SNL, I actually,

the other said, man, big on pop culture, but I became very just interested in

politics and just learning a lot more about this world because I feel like I

would have conversations with people and actually have no clue what I was talking about.

And that was something that I was always, like, missing.

And then I actually really got into SNL because of the politics and the stances

there and seeing Tina Fey as Sarah Palin.

I suddenly knew who Sarah Palin was and knew how to give an opinion and a stance

and know that. So that's actually what really like hooked me.

I've always been a big comedy fan. Like any set come that I even do some standup

now and sketch around New York. Yeah.

I dabble. I'm not super well versed, but I started when I lived in Seattle.

It takes a lot to even dabble. I've done it once.

I did a five minute set once and I'm like, this is tough.

Track 4

[14:28] Five for your furset is a lot. So I lived in Seattle during the pandemic.

And I'm not from there, so I'm from New York. And the way that I actually got

to meet people was I took an improv class.

And through that, I don't – not an improv girl, but I met someone that was like,

I feel like you do good stand-up. You want to come with me one night?

And that's actually how I made a lot of my social life and friends there is

just going to open mics, doing open mics, working on things with people,

So that's how I got into that.

And then when I moved back to New York, the way that I met some other people

here was taking a sketch class at People's Improv Theater.

Track 4

[15:06] And through that, going to a lot of shows and open mics and just making connections with people.

So comedy has always just been at the root of things in my life.

But then really when I started like understanding it and really appreciating

the show that it was like a universal experience, but I just never sat and watched.

I think around high school time is that when my parents would record it,

even if I was doing my thing, running around like at night, every Sunday,

like even today, like I don't usually watch it live.

I watch it every single Sunday. It's part of my routine now.

I watch it like Sunday, 11 o'clock.

I wake up, I'm making breakfast and I'm watching SNL and it's basically just

been a constant in my life. And a lot of it really stemmed, weirdly enough,

from getting to know and learn and understand politics in a fun way.

Yeah. As fun as they can be these past few years anyway.

That's really interesting. Yeah, I don't often hear people say it was politics.

Even though SNL is synonymous with politics, that's a really neat way to get into the show.

I love it. And so when did you first take notice of Maya Rudolph as a performer? Was it SNL?

Track 4

[16:12] It was SNL. So Maya Rudolph and Kristen Wiig are like my two favorite cast members of all time.

And a lot of it was their interactions with each other.

And I was able to see a lot of like myself and my friends in them and the way

that they interact and the way that they bring each other onto their projects

in real life or even watching them on a talk show or red carpet or they're presenting

an award at the Emmys together.

Like the way that they interacted I also felt

the same similar with Tina Fey and Amy Poehler where I was just like

me and my girlfriend just sit and do this and

we just kind of shoot the shit and talk and

are funny and friends and I think that's what really

felt relatable to me and I think in actually some of the the sketches that I

like think so highly of Maya and a lot of them are her and Kristen are just

her being her but in like a funny way and adopting and I really I really feel

like that's what drew me in to her is I could see myself being friends with her.

I can't say that about everyone that's been on this show, but I'm like,

you're someone that I'd get coffee with and I feel like I'd have a great time.

Yeah, I can see that, definitely. It seems like she'd be easy to be friends with. For sure.

Yeah, if she was my friend, she would probably say, you know what,

Thomas, I'm disappointed. I've been on the ballot.

This is my fifth time on the ballot now, and I'm not in the Hall of Fame yet. What's the deal?

Track 4

[17:34] Yeah, you have to make it up to her to get a friendship. I know. Jeez.

I know. Sorry, Maya. So in season one, she had 47% of the vote.

Seasons two, three, and four, actually, it's been hovering around 58%.

It's been very, very steady.

Track 4

[17:50] So almost like knocking at the door, Rebecca, the candidates need 66.7% of the

vote to get in. So to about two thirds of the vote.

So she's like knocking on that door, but not quite over the hump.

So why do you think, like, do you have any theories as to why Maya hasn't got

over that hump and been voted into the hall?

Yeah. So something that stuck out to me as a reason why I love her,

but I actually could see people not is obviously we've seen her do countless

impressions on the show.

So from Beyonce to Kamala Harris to just all of these different people,

but she's still kind of maintains maya and

that and i think maybe from an impressionist point

of view you look at someone like top of mind right now is

chloe feinman and you look at chloe and she's an

impressionist whenever she puts a wig on she embodies

that person and maya the similar to if sarah

sherman does an impression i'm just relating it to this season is it's sarah

sherman still and you still have all of her quirks and all of that maya is very

that and that's actually why I like her because I'm like yeah you're not blending

completely into this person I think

there are two types of people that do impressions on SNL people J.A.J.

That just completely embodies that and you actually might not be able to tell

who is who if they're talking next to each other and people that sometimes are funnier to me is.

Track 4

[19:11] Someone that, like, their quirks and their characteristics come through.

And it's, like, Maya Rudolph as Kamala Harris.

And sometimes that's even funnier to me than an actual spot on impression.

Because if you're not going to do a perfect impression, at least let your comedy come through.

Track 4

[19:27] But that's something that I specifically like. I have dabbled in the space and

I'm not an impressionist.

I made a joke that the only impression I could do is, like, either a 60-year-old

chain smoker or, like, an old man just based on my voice.

And my stature and i'm just like

i you would see me through any impression i've done so

that is something that like shines out to me is that like

i love that and respect them when someone could do that and make it funny and

really let themselves come through that like ad bryant as well as someone that

sticks out like you're laughing at them you're not laughing at the spot on impression

so i see the flip side of maybe people being like maya is always maya no matter

what she is what what character she's playing,

what impression she's doing, it's still Maya Rudolph as that person.

It's not her embodying someone, which I respect, but I think that actually could

be one of the reasons that she hasn't gotten her way onto the ballot yet.

Track 4

[20:20] Yeah, I think that's a pretty good theory. You do bring up a good point about

impressions that I wanted to circle back to, too, because we've talked about,

on the SNL Hall of Fame, we've talked about impressions quite a bit and what

your taste in impressions is and what you look for.

And I think the way Maya's done it is preferable to me over somebody who's technically sound.

We've had a lot of impressionists on SNL who are technically great impressionists.

Some recent ones, actually, who didn't quite hit on the show.

Because I think with an impression, Rebecca, you have to have a take.

And it has to be funny. To me, you only get so much mileage out of just sounding

like the person and looking like the person. You actually have to have some comedic.

Track 4

[21:05] Value to the impression so i don't

want to bring up names because i don't you know but there's been impressionists on

the show uh in in the past who

have been who've done very sound technically great impressions but there's no

comedic take behind yeah so with maya i think we have seen we see a lot of uh

funny comedic takes does she sound 100 like beyonce it's okay like i don't know

You can kind of tell she's trying to play Beyonce,

but there's some sort of take there. Same with Donatella Versace.

She does a weird one of Scott Joplin, who's like a real person.

She did a couple of some of my favorite Maya's work.

It wasn't quite an impression. It was kind of her take on a historical figure, like a funny take.

But there's the comedic value in it. So that was a really good point,

Rebecca, about impressions and Maya and how she does impressions.

But I have a confession for you. Yeah.

I'm one of those people who has been on the fence about voting her in.

Why? Yeah. So here's my – and I'm glad you asked me in that tone because I've

asked myself in that tone. In my judgy tone?

Yeah. No, I've asked myself in that judgy tone too.

Track 4

[22:22] But I finally pinpointed it, I think.

Think so maya was on from 2000 to

2007 and i think i think

she spent much of her time on snl in the wrong era

for her skill set i think like the

early to mid 2000s i think that

catered to a lot of and there's a lot of

like lowbrow kind of humor there was a lot

and i think she was capable of so much more i think

she was very clever and but she always she didn't

always get a lot of clever sketches on i

think she was way more like her skill set was a

lot more diverse than maybe the era catered to

so i and that that's just kind of

my taste but i think that's kind of

what the era was there was a lot of like and it's

hard to describe from like about 2001 to like

2005 it was a lot of edgelord humor

it was a lot of like let's put people let's

let's dress up an athlete in a a wig and a dress let's

put our female host and get just

give her a wig and some jewelry and make her talk like a

hip-hop affectation kind of characters i don't know it's just like a it was

a weird vibe and comedy just in general around that time so i don't i think

i don't know if you could see where i'm coming from with maybe her skill set

she would have been better off in a different time of snl where she could have really shined i think.

Track 4

[23:47] I actually really agree with that. It was also a really saturated cast.

So for everyone to stand out and saturated not only by volume,

but talent and big, big personalities.

Like you see nowadays, even this season, it's a very saturated cast,

but there are a lot of people that are really strong background characters that like they shine in that.

That but I would say from her six seven years on

the show it really was a lot

of huge huge personalities comedically like kind of

fighting for that spotlight there so the edgier or the probably more lowbrow

you could get at the time I feel like the more that you shined on the show and

that's what it needed to be then and that was kind of what we were seeing comedy

at that time So I do agree with you there.

And yeah, I feel like even now, just like learning about Maya and her,

just, I feel like she's very cultured and like intelligent outside of comedy.

And that inspires a lot of it, like her Prince tribute band.

And going through that, she has a lot of niche interests and quirks that I feel

like if she was on a different season, even like on current season,

the writing cast was different and they would really let it shine.

And kind of write things around someone that would understand.

I think about Bo and Yang doing the Troye Sivan sketch.

Track 4

[25:08] Did it relate to everyone? No. But was it funny because it was someone doing

something they were passionate about and understood and got?

I feel like if Maya was on a more recent season, I would say probably from like

2015 till now, the writers would tailor things to her and she wouldn't just

have to fit in and be the funny character in what she was doing.

And you have her and Kristen Wiig as, like, a dynamic duo throughout the seasons

together, and they are so different, and their humor is so different.

And I feel like although their partnership was something that we've seen from

the show on and through that, I feel like it was more for Kristen to shine than

it allowed for Maya to shine.

And I think that is probably the reason she isn't in this Hall of Fame.

But as you look back like taking a deeper eye to this and the reason why I'm

so excited to talk about her is like she was just stunning.

Track 4

[26:02] Standard and reliable like you knew she was

going to say something or sing something and we were going to

laugh whether she was the star of it and whether

it was even her like area to

shine comedically she always did trigger a lot from the audience so although

i you don't want to like pit women against each other but i kind of feel like

the writers then had to pick the star and kristin definitely got that spotlight

and maya was more of a supporting role when i actually feel I feel like they

could have balanced that a little different.

Track 4

[26:32] Yeah, that's something that you just articulated that I think I've always felt,

but I never really articulated it to myself, is that dynamic with her and Kristen

and maybe a little bit Amy. I think she and Amy were actually really good.

Of course, they did Bronx Beat together and stuff, but I think they actually

had a really good partnership.

I really I wish that Maya she

ended in on SNL in 2007

I wish she could have had a few more years because I

think that that cast was just finding its groove

around 2007 so I would wish Maya

could have been a part of them really hitting the

peak like she could I wish she could have done more stuff with Sudeikis

and Hader and even develop more of

a partnership with Kristen so I think she was in a weird era

and she was part of when the show kind of

flipped and got another golden era but

i wish she could have been part more of a

more of that golden era than she was

if that makes sense yeah that that actually is a

really good point like as they transitioned over she was one of the cast members

that transitioned with them but didn't get to see it through fruition the way

that like she probably should have after the year she put into it like yeah

and if she was able to stick around and actually like help with the transition

and do that and move that over.

So that's an awesome point because I feel like the show really flips.

Track 4

[27:56] Each big era from like, is who dominates it?

Especially I think like gender is a big thing. Like, is it being carried by

like Andy Samberg, Jason Sudeikis, Bill Hader, that?

That was a very male heavy, like leading a lot of the sketches.

And then you go to Kate McKinnon, Cecily and 80. And that was very,

very female dominating.

And I kind of wished even just as a general statement throughout the years,

there was better balance and you would see more

dynamic duos from like the

women and the men on the cast and i think that's actually something

that snl has really never quite nailed down since the early early seasons um

like really from the not ready for primetime players that i think had the best

balance between everyone had a role but since the cast are so saturated now

it's easier to make a a more bro-y sketch or a more, like,

female-oriented sketch.

And that's just natural and due to the nature. But I kind of feel like that's

what we're missing now is that sweet spot.

You look at all the duos or trios or groups of people from 2000 on.

Track 4

[29:01] And there's never really, like, a male-female dynamic duo leading that.

And I actually think, like, Maya and Fred could have done that.

And we see in real life that they kind of are that dynamic duo.

And we've seen that really come to terms after

the show and all of that but I think that's like an area

that we've been missing for a while is like having someone

just really dominant that way and I think that would just make maybe every sketch

more reliable to this so I talked to John about sketches that he all-time favorite

thinks is the funniest things with like Andrew Dismukes and I'm like yeah I

laughed it wasn't like necessarily my thing or like little things things like that.

And that's, I guess, reaching all the different people in the audience.

Track 4

[29:46] But kind of looking for that sweet spot.

And I feel like she could have been a really good bridge between that.

She really could have. That's such a good point. And I was thinking of Fred

too, with Amaya and Fred, they could have had such a, they could have built

on like a dynamic because Fred stayed until what, 2012, something like that.

So, so they could have had a few more years together. Yeah. See great points, Rebecca.

See, Maya is overdue in the Arsenal Hall of Fame and

you were overdue to appear on this podcast i'm already

meant to be yeah it was meant to be then but i'm

here i'm here to vouch for her and then hopefully vouch for a return

on this podcast i think you've already sealed a return 20 minutes

in wow so as far as

maya's work on snl what what kind of immediately stands out to you like you

we can we can kind of just talk about it like a specific character or sketch

right now well you did mention bronx beat and that is the number one When I

look back at my 10 favorite sketches of all time,

I think Bronx Beat is really just up there in that list.

Initially, I'm like, okay, Maya's on this show. Who are we talking about? Bronx Beat is that.

So, your book, you like to ride bikes. Yes, I traveled all over the country

and found the best trails and rated them according to difficulty and size and, uh... Uh-huh.

You know how many times I had sex last year, Frankie?

Track 4

[31:11] 0.002. And it was my choice. This area down here, this area,

it's got the Ghostbusters thing over it.

No one's allowed in there. No trespassing. No trespassing. Clothes for business.

You know that red circle thing with the line, the Ghostbusters thing?

Yeah. It's my choice. You know what? When my husband wants to get sex... It's always funny.

No matter when I watch it, no matter what mood I'm in, it is just always one that gets me laughing.

And I think that was a good point you made about Amy and Maya's chemistry.

Like, they have such a funny, like, chemistry in this. And their dialects, it's just a dumb sketch.

But it really just always hits. Sometimes you just get those where you're like, this is amazing.

And that was pure gold. So that definitely stands out to me.

It's a dumb sketch, but it's not.

It's not a dumb sketch because they have these mannerisms. So now you're from

New York, you said, right? Yes.

Have you met these ladies before? Yes.

So I'm from Long Island. So it's a little different, but there's like,

there's a similarity between Bronx and certain parts of Long Island.

And I think especially like older generations, like the accents are real.

Like people actually sound like that.

And I think that was around, like, an era with Jersey Shore was also,

like, how are these people real?

But they are. And the people of Bronx Beat, those people exist.

Track 4

[32:34] And it's awesome to see. And it was, like, a really great depiction.

And they really just took those characters to 110%. And they were relatable.

Like, I was able to be like, oh, that's who that is.

That's someone from New York. And it was awesome. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that sketch was so musical, too.

Like, when Amy talking and then Maya talking, like, the way they bantered back

and forth, it was very musical.

It was, like, just something about it. Like, you had to be an amazing performer

to get those beats down. Like, it was...

Track 4

[33:07] I remember the Jake Gyllenhaal one, the one that they were kind of flirting

with, with like, they kind of flirted with their guests and stuff,

but just like their, the way they would bounce back and forth.

She and Amy, there was just, just real like music to it.

That's whenever I watch those sketches, that's all my mind goes to is just as

a performer, she was just so good about hitting those exact beats is very conversational,

uh, and very relatable. I'm from New Mexico.

I've been to New York, but you know, I'm not like a guy, uh,

But it was still like I felt like I knew those ladies.

Yeah, for sure. Like they definitely exist. And I feel like some people got

it and they were like, I could relate this.

But other people that have never met anyone like that still were able to relate

and be like, I saw this person on TV.

And it was an awesome depiction.

So that's like the number one sketch that really stands out to me.

Yeah, and I don't think it's a coincidence, too, that they started doing these

later in Maya's tenure there on SNL.

When the cast and the show as a whole was starting to flip into another golden

era, and we saw something like Bronx Beat, which she and Amy came up with.

So I don't think that's necessarily a coincidence that these started happening a little later.

Track 4

[34:23] One that I revisited today that was just like pure Maya just owning it was that National Anthem.

Yeah was that was that like one of the next ones that that was in my i that

i was deciding which one i was going to bring up next it was either that or

the one i'll get to then after but i love that i mean one of my like happy videos

is watching fergie sing the national anthem.

Track 4

[34:45] And I could do every single quip.

And that's, I think, kind of what it was Lucy based off of was Fergie for the

Basketball Hall of Fame sang the national anthem and took a lot of creative

liberty in a way that did not pay off.

But I'm sure it's probably one of the most watched national anthems of any sports event ever.

Track 4

[35:09] And Maya so perfectly encapsulated that.

But also, she's a super talented singer. So I think that was part of it.

But Fergie at this national anthem just like, went off and did all these ad

libs and runs that were so funny.

And to see SNL do that in a way that wasn't an exact copy and had Maya like

fully just shine and go off on that.

And like, that is quintessential Maya. Like when I'm imagining her in my head,

she is just singing and doing something funny vocally and through singing.

And I think that this sketch still holds up now because there's always it's always relatable.

Like there was a super viral video this month of this little girl that sang

the National Anthem again so horribly, like at one of these games.

And I was like watching this one again yesterday.

And I was like, oh, it's like this little girl now. But you could have watched

it two years ago and related it to another just bad national anthem performance.

Yeah, as long as people are singing the national anthem, they're going to be

singing it poorly because it's a hard song to sing.

Track 4

[36:15] Exactly. And I don't know why people keep doing that. Like, just sing the song as it was written.

Like, it's very rarely paid off for people to just make it their own.

And we're seeing that. I think this is just a relatable sketch,

whether it was 20 years ago or today. because you can always relate it to something going on.

Through the night,

for it's warm to me.

Track 4

[37:08] I feel like they told Maya, maybe on that Monday, whoever, maybe it was her

that came up with the idea, but I feel like they just kind of told Maya,

like, we need you to do a national anthem and kind of butcher it.

Sing well, but just, like, butcher it.

And Maya's like, I got you. And she came up with that.

It was just so, like, her facial expressions were perfect.

I think she added in, she started singing Take Me Out to the Ball Game or something at some point.

Yeah yeah that was so perfect that's like

quintessential mom glad i revisited it again today because that

you're right that is quintessential uh maya in in

that performance yeah uh what else is quintessential maya she's so fun she's

so fun the other one that i think like she shines out of a bigger cast is super

showcase spokesmodels this in my mind is just Kristen and Maya doing their thing.

It's a spoof of The Price is Right and it's showing contestants what they would have won.

So it's Kristen and Maya as the Vanillites walking around. I know that's.

Track 4

[38:15] Um walking around and being like the

spokesperson and you just watch like Kristen and

Bill Hader just lose it and it just shows like

Maya was probably someone that was so fun to have on set

and someone that you look at and you're like yes I'm in this sketch with them

and she made them break just by being her and standing out so much out of like

the crowd of this sketch that it cracks me up like I'm a sucker for people that

break in a sketch especially when it's like actually funny Yeah,

when it's not like forced.

Not like an inside joke type of thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

You're going to kick yourself when you see what Sean and Vonda have in their cart.

Look at this, Debra. A lifetime supply of frozen chicken by Chicken Man.

Imagine years after years after years of chicken. Right at your fingertips. Tickle, tickle.

Each chicken looks as good as this one. That's a Chicken Man guarantee.

If your mom likes trickle, you might like chicken.

Track 4

[39:20] Was her voice kind of similar to like, remember that art dealers one that she and Fred did?

This almost looks like the similar, like it's almost like a similar voice, right? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, Maya was... Yeah, just, we don't know what the rules of the game are still.

Right. Like, what would a right answer be?

And she just did such a good job here.

Yeah, she, of course, Bill is known to break. But for good reason when you're

working with somebody like Maya, honestly.

I don't know how Vanessa Bear kept it together in that sketch.

She's probably new and maybe afraid of getting fired.

So she didn't want a break in that sketch.

Yeah, that was so good.

There was one, and I don't know if you remember these or when it got a chance to go rewatch.

They're hard to find. You got to know where to look. But she did one that I alluded to earlier.

And it's an example to me of something very clever that Maya was able to do

early on. Like these appeared in 2002 and 2003.

It was Tennis Talk with time traveling Scott Joplin.

Let's start with you, 92 Andre Agassi. What's new with you? Oh,

well, things are pretty great.

I just won Wimbledon. I'm dating Brooke Shields.

And I'm doing these pretty awesome commercials for Canon cameras.

That's great. By the way, Patrick Swayze called. He wants his hair back.

Track 4

[40:46] How about you, present-day Andre Agassi? What's going on with you?

I'm really excited. I just had a second baby with my wife.

So if you haven't seen and if you don't do you remember these rebecca vaguely

okay so i'll yes i'll recap so scott

joplin is a real person he was a composer he

basically is called like the godfather of ragtime

kind of music and so the premise

was that maya played scott joplin

who traveled who who was

a time traveler who became a time traveler and

through his time traveling experiences

he figured out that he really enjoyed tennis so he created

a talk show time travel and tennis talk with time

travel and Scott Joplin so he would like have these

have these tennis players on and pretty much like be passive-aggressive and

make these quips but then like after after like burns would go back and play

like ragtime diddy and then come back and like like talk to him and be condescending

and be funny at this and it was Maya like dressed up in a suit.

Track 4

[41:51] And short hair and and it was just

such a bizarre to me very clever

very like where did this come from and especially

for that time in 2002 and 2003 it

really like stood out yeah amongst people

but that's an example to me like i thought of of her being able

to play in like more just kind of

subtle weird kind of things rather

than over the top things so that that's when if you

if if you hadn't seen that in a while if listeners you hadn't seen

that in a while it's around season 28 and 29 tennis talk with time travel and

scott joblin and then rebecca like i think that one yeah yeah go check that

but i think rebecca like she she's versatile that's the versatility that i was

talking about with maya yeah the other thing that i've noticed i know we spoke about.

Track 4

[42:41] Impressions and we kind of touched on that earlier on but maya

comes from a unique background ground obviously we love that

she is a very successful nepo baby uh mini

ripperton's her mom and she's black and jewish

and i think she was on the cast at a time to be kind

of she was a black woman representative so for

a lot of the impressions we saw they weren't spot on but

within being that character and playing characters that most of the rest of

the cast couldn't play uh like at the time she took these roles and didn't just

say okay i'll just do an impression She like completely dramatized their characterization to a T and to 100%.

And I think she took her background of being both black and Jewish,

like in Bronx Beat, the people that related to me, I'm like,

oh, those are Jewish people from Long Island that I know.

Although it's not technically that from the Bronx, she always let herself shine.

So a few of her impressions are just like when I looked back and really,

really standing out to me is not like, wow, you are Oprah, but you are making me hysterically laugh.

So that specific one is just Oprah's favorite things I have down.

And then also the Maya Angelou, I Know Why the Caged Birds Laugh as a show.

Track 4

[43:57] Hello, child. I am the rock.

I am the river. I am the one who put a pie under the butt of Morgan Freeman. Whoa!

Watch as Maya Angelou pranks her esteemed colleagues.

Track 4

[44:15] Look out! It appears I have sat in a pie. I suppose you have.

I feel no shame sitting in that pastry. Just human nature, I suppose.

Yes. It has been an honor.

Track 4

[44:32] So she really took these and made them her own and was like,

OK, if you want me to do this, I'm still going to be Maya in this because I

can't do a spot on Maya Angelou impression.

So I'm going to make it a show instead of just like an interview with Maya Angelou.

So I think that's where she really got to shine in a lot of those times.

At the time, I know we were saying before she was never specifically written

for like as much as I think she deserved to be. But in a lot of her impressions,

I think, is where the writers really had fun with her.

And she created characters even out of real people who I wanted to imitate as

well. You said you don't do impressions.

I sure as hell don't do impressions. But with something like her Whitney Houston,

I find myself almost mimicking.

He and my sister-in-law, sometimes we'll get to talking about SNL,

and she'll always be like, I'll always go back to Maya Rudolph's Whitney Houston.

Bobby Brown, Bobby Brown.

We'll just kind of sit there and say Bobby Brown to each other.

Eric is a real Geico customer, not a paid celebrity. So to help him tell his

story, we paired him with Whitney Houston.

Track 4

[45:46] I thought I was going to have to postpone my exams. That's when I got in my

SUV, threw that sucker in reverse, and drove backwards all the way to Dionne Warwick's house.

Track 4

[45:59] Geico took care of everything immediately, and I passed sociology.

I passed Bobby Brown the other day, and I threw an old bag of chicken McNuggets

at his head. Ain't it shocking what love can do?

Ain't it shocking what love can do?

Geico. Real wrecks. Cars. She has that kind of energy and creates these characters that even...

Track 4

[46:22] Fans like we want to like imitate and we want to like act like that because

she radiates like that energy on screen maya does exactly and that's why i think

bringing her back as kamala harris was.

Track 4

[46:36] Such a specific choice that i

think snl took they could have had someone come

back or at they were that was actually at a time where they

were just bringing people in left and right um to

play people that weren't specifically in the cast and they

chose Maya and she did such a unique

take on Kamala that I think was more successful

than someone that was like uncanny like I mean

you look at Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton with Amy

and Tina and although they were really funny they were really spot-on impressions

where they've had the characters in the room together but But Maya took Kamala

and made it why people like to laugh with her and at her and go through all

of those phases where I thought it was like a genius pick,

but it was actually interesting because they were bringing back a lot of people while Alec Baldwin,

I don't think, was the funniest Donald Trump. He was super, super spot on.

But they made such a specific choice by having Maya come back and be Kamala

with not a spot on impression, but added a lot of light.

Maybe she wasn't as like serious as having like Biden or Trump and someone that

like we actually want to convey like This is our political take and the stance in this sketch,

but just having Kamala's like, oh, you know You're gonna say one or two lines

in this that'll make me laugh,

Harris you see this is what they do.

Track 4

[47:58] Susan they avoid taking any,

Responsibility not mr. Vice President. I'm speaking.

Track 4

[48:11] Well, I'm just trying to. But I'm speaking. Yes, but I. Yeah, but I'm speaking.

See, I'm speaking right now. Estoya, Blondo, Nevada, Arizona,

some parts of Texas. I'm speaking. I understand that.

I understand. Yeah, I don't think you do. I do. Because you're talking and I'm speaking.

Track 4

[48:29] I love that choice to bring her back. And I think having a previous cast member

come back for a recurring, like, hold open bit And then pop up in a lot of the

sketches that we've seen throughout those seasons where she was back.

That's that's enough to put her in the Hall of Fame for me. Yeah.

Yeah. That's so. So you do look at times that they appeared outside of their

time, like as an official cast member.

Like you do take that into account when you're looking at cast members.

For sure. And also impact after the show, I think is it that's what I do,

because it's not like the SNL Hall of Fame in my mind is, oh,

you were on SNL and you came from this and it was all encompassing.

Like, what did you do on the show? What did you do with your platform after the show?

And a lot of people don't utilize that platform after the show, as well as others.

And I think Maya is someone that really took that by storm and completely is

just now kind of killing it and consistently killing it since her time on SNL,

back on the show as host, as recurring characters and that.

And I take that all into consideration. But just besides her specific years

on the show, it's like you have one of the biggest comedy platforms in the whole world.

Track 4

[49:44] Are you going to actually make use of what you had on here?

And I say without doubt she definitely did

and I mean just to bring up the I mean

the number one thing everyone's probably thinking of of her time outside the

show is bridesmaids like she made a

legendary movie like that is

one that goes down in the books when you look back

at history you're like oh that is just an all-time

funny movie it's the same way great yeah yeah

Will Ferrell had all of these movies as well

after obviously maya doesn't have as much

i'd say on her repertoire there but you look

back and that's one of the all-time great comedic movies

of all time that i'm like you were on this you brought your friends into this

cast you brought kristin into this and like it all worked so well together that

it i related to snl because it's a maya and kristin movie that was so funny

and so amazing that i'm like how could she not be in the hall Hall of Fame.

The amount of times I watch Bridesmaids a year, just when I'm sitting with people

and we're like, what movie should we put on? Bridesmaids. It's a classic.

Track 4

[50:49] Yeah. No, that's a perfect one to put on when you have nothing else to go to.

No, it's an all-time great comedy.

And I'm starting to warm up to the idea more of thinking about cast members

and their impact even outside of their technical, when they were a cast member on the show.

I think you bring up good points. And I think that's perfectly valid to

look at cast members that way and kamala harris is a

great example and with maya you almost have to like take into

cameos into account because she's been back

on the show so much and she played kamala

like there was and we were talking about impressions like she found a an angle

for her kamala harris they even told us what that angle was like the cool aunt

right like she played kamala harris said i'm the cool aunt or whatever and i'm

gonna play it like that so she was like like the fun aunt who might've like rapped a little bit,

but then they still made fun of her for saying like, that little girl was me,

like this kind of poking fun at, at Kamala at the same time.

So she did find an angle. She has had an impact on the show.

Track 4

[51:55] 2024 now and i and and none

of us would be shocked if we saw maya rudolph

uh come on the show in some capacity i know punky johnson they had her play

kamala she didn't she didn't get any speaking roles um when she played kamala

but i don't know if they're what their plans are with that but we won't be surprised

if maya's like comes back to the show at any point and has yeah,

you're right uh yeah as we're recording this yeah yeah as we're recording this

Kristen scheduled to host, I think, on April 6th.

Yes. Something like that. Interesting.

And I would not be shocked at all if she made an appearance there.

I actually have a question for you, Thomas. Okay. So I know how to angle to all the listeners here.

Has anyone had 100% poll numbers in the Hall of Fame? Or who was around the highest?

So I kind of understand their impact versus maybe why Maya wasn't in there.

I kind of think somebody like Will Ferrell or like Eddie Murphy,

I seem to remember, or Bill Hader.

I think people like that have been in the 90s. Nobody's gotten 100%.

And it doesn't matter in any sort of Hall of Fame, any sort of vote.

You could be the best basketball, best football player, best baseball player

of all time, and those guys don't get 100%. Nobody's got 100% of the vote in

the SNL Hall of Fame, yeah.

Track 4

[53:21] Okay, yeah, that's interesting, man. And I guess those, I think those people

probably have had more impact on the actual show.

But then I look at Will and yes, he had amazing sketches.

When you look back at, let's list everyone's favorite sketches of all time,

you're going to have more cowbells and you're going to have a lot of Will appearances.

But I actually feel like his impact was made more after the show and a lot of the work he's done.

So I'm seeing him a little more similar to Maya than like Bill Hader,

who absolutely like obviously has impact off

of the show but like snl was his playground he

just completely ran that to the ground the

same way that like kate mckinnon has and all of

that like when you're watching them off the show you're always going to relate

them back to being on the show but now you're actually going to look at will

ferrell and you're going to be like oh that's buddy the elf like that's probably

where your mind goes actually more than oh you're on snl it's someone that's

just so engraved in the culture that you're like, oh, I forget you were like,

you don't forget, but oh, you were on SNL instead of Bill Hader.

It's like, oh, SNL's Bill Hader is going to be in this or SNL's Kate McKinnon.

And I think Maya's impacted.

Track 4

[54:32] Probably more off the show which is why she's been

teetering around that 50 percent range for a

little bit now but i think people should take that into

consideration because you're not supposed to be

a keenan and be honest enough for a million years not everyone could be that

considering there's only been one person there's only been one keenan on the

show and you want to take this life-changing opportunity and make an impact

in comedy and in pop culture and in the world And I feel like Maya has had such success in that so far.

So take that into consideration when you vote, listeners.

Yeah, no, that's such a good point. I want to use my wife as a case study for what you just said.

She likes SNL. She's not as much of a fan as me. She probably only watches and

started watching because of me.

Track 4

[55:21] But she likes it and she'll watch. But she knows Will Ferrell more for like

Elf and things outside of SNL.

She knows Maya Rudolph more, honestly, for popping up in shows that we watch

and seeing her all over the place, probably Bridesmaids.

So my wife is somebody who that

person that you said maybe knows those people more for outside of SNL.

My wife wouldn't know Bill Hader unless she went back and watched earlier seasons.

If she saw Bill Hader popping up on something, she wouldn't be like, oh, it's Bill Hader.

But she sees Maya Rudolph and my wife's like, oh, that's Maya Rudolph. I love Maya Rudolph.

Yeah, exactly. Again, good play. My wife is like, I love that they got Maya

Rudolph to play the judge.

Or in Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, Maya Rudolph played, what, Dionne Warwick?

Who did she play? Yes. Yeah, wait. It wasn't –.

Track 4

[56:11] Yeah, and she's just like a standard. Also, I think about Big Mouth.

The second you hear the Hormone Monster, she is hysterical.

And I think Nick Kroll did an awesome job choosing Maya to be such a pivotal

character in that show, obviously.

It's a cartoon, so it's on her face, but she doesn't need to be her face.

So, yeah, she was Dionne Warwick. Dionne Warwick.

Track 4

[56:36] Yes. I thought it was that or Diana Ross or somebody like that.

Track 4

[56:41] Well, yeah, somebody like that. Yeah, but you could tell like in Big Mouth,

she put her stamp or complete stamp on it.

She, I'm drawing a blank right now.

She popped up recently in something and I was like, oh, Maya was just so perfect

in that. But that's what she does.

Track 4

[57:00] Maya just leaves an impression on the screen no matter what.

If it's two minutes, if it's 30 minutes, Maya is going to leave such a great mark.

Oh it was documentary now it's like my my favorite episode

of documentary now is test pattern which

is a take off of their lampooning and

paying uh homage to the talking head stop making

sense and maya's in that on

documentary now and she she was wonderful in

it she was perfect she just makes such an impact rebecca

just no matter how long she's on the screen literally i'm

looking at at like her imdb right now

and she's in literally everything just as

a voice as a name like

whether she just makes a short appearance i'm like

looking at this and i'm like oh wait yeah she was in that she was in specifically

the movie book smart one of my all-time favorite movies she's a voiceover and

i could tell you the scene that she's in in my head because even though it's

just her voice in a non-cartoon movie where there's a lot of big names and a lot of cameos.

I remember the exact part she was in in that movie just by thinking about it

and she's done a lot of cartoons and cartoons.

Track 4

[58:16] Comic movies there and yeah she

just makes a lot of appearances in things

and if you look at who is starring in those or producing them it's a lot of

just big name comedians that love her and respect her and i think she's a super

respected name in the comedy scene in the community that people want to hang

out with her and i feel like if she could come back to host for season 50 and And if not,

I feel like she would just be a big presence in whatever sort of celebration

and special that they do for the 50th anniversary.

Yeah, she's going to absolutely be a huge presence. So we can wrap this up by

one last sort of plea, I guess.

And you can look at me, Rebecca, as a stand-in for all those voters who haven't

voted, because I've been on the fence a little bit, maybe more so than I should.

So you can look at me and scold me if you need to and tell me and SNL Hall of

Fame voters out there why they should finally vote Maya Rudolph into the hall.

Track 4

[59:17] So I'm going to think about this from a legacy point of view.

And if you were to, if Maya never passed her audition onto SNL,

would your life be changed?

And would pop culture and the world be changed? For sure.

SNL would have been different without her on it. I think she was a pivotal cast

member at the time where maybe she wasn't the star in every sketch,

but her impressions and her quips and one-liners are things that you forever remember.

And then her mark in pop culture and history throughout the years after her being on the show.

She is someone that if she was not at the 50th special, you'd be like, where's Maya?

And I think that alone just would make you want to vote her into the Hall of

Fame because I think she really has made her mark on not only SNL.

And the way that kind of impressions are done from then on into just the real

world. Like, what if Bridesmaids didn't exist?

Track 4

[1:00:11] What would we do? We'd be very missing out. That would be a hole in my heart.

So she's someone that I think really made her mark and took her 15 minutes of

fame and really impacted culture and the comedy scene from then on.

So I would vote for her to be in the Hall of Fame. And she's been on the cusp

for five seasons now. And I think that's telling that people really do love her.

Just probably haven't fully mentally appreciated her until this episode.

So vote for Maya for this.

Track 2

[1:00:58] Thank you so much, Thomas and Rebecca. That was spectacular.

Re-litigating the case, as Thomas says, of Maya Rudolph.

I, too, am surprised she's not in the Hall of Fame. She wouldn't necessarily be in my Hall of Fame.

But I'm shocked that she's not in. She's got so many votes at this point.

So this is her last chance. This is her last kick at the can.

And you've got to get out and vote for her. May 6th, voting will open,

and it's very important for you to exercise your franchise and make that vote.

So that's what I got to say about that.

Let's listen to a sketch. This is Maya Rudolph on Weekend Update, and it's a dandy.

So let's give that a listen right now.

Track 5

[1:01:51] This week, Whitney Houston auctioned off over $175,000 worth of items from her

storage unit in Irvington, New Jersey.

Here to talk about it is Whitney Houston.

Track 5

[1:02:06] It's all in the storage unit. Ooh, come on down and buy my junk, baby.

Hello. Hello, Mrs. Houston. Always nice to have you. Oh, feels good, M.E.P.

Unloading, unloading my baggage. Yes. Mama is lighter.

Light as a feather, stiff as a board, M.E.P. Okay, that's wonderful.

That's wonderful, Mrs. Houston. Yes, Polar Coaster. That storage unit has completely slipped my mind.

Open it up. You look like the U-Story from Silence of the Lambs.

Straight up Sanford and Sons. Burn up.

Burn up, burn up, burn up. All right. Okay, so, Whitney, you sold everything. That's great. Oh, no.

Uh-uh. Hail to the, hail to the, hail to the no.

There are still some items that have got to go. And I ain't going to lie,

this legendary recording artist needs the cash. Mama needs Monet.

And for that, you can blame Bobby B.

Total waste of my time, Bobby B. Woo! Okay, Whitney, well. Well.

All right. You all right? You all right? Okay, well tell us what items are left.

Some of our viewers might be interested in helping you out. Oh baby,

you are a genius. Let me put on my cheetahs. Let's see.

Four solid gold turlets. Three complete seasons of 227 on video cassette.

Wind machine, very important.

Track 5

[1:03:35] Eight monogrammed fur capes.

For your lady if her initials are W-H or B-B for Bobby Brown.

600 Kangol visors, a Lexus SUV whose horn honks tenderoni,

a warped platinum record that mama used to heat a DiGiorno pizza,

and a Marvel statuary of Bobby B and I with our business hanging out.

And it's all going once, going twice. Nobody?

No? How many golden toilets? Four!

You know what? I'll give you $15 for everything. So, Jamie Peeping!

All right. Whitney Houston, everybody. Thank you, Whitney. Take it.

Track 2

[1:04:18] Oh, man. Yeah, that's a good one. And I don't know if it's going to sway you or not.

There are some better sketches, there's no doubt.

But it's tough finding sketches for this program

program because so many are visual and

if you think of her Beyonce character for example it's

it's a very visual thing but uh

I I don't know I thought that was great Whitney Houston damn she was so big

at one point wasn't she gosh well next week on the SNL Hall of Fame we are joined

Joined by the grand poobah of the Saturday Night Network, one John Schneider.

He will be in discussion with Thomas about the stellar work of the great Will Forte.

Track 2

[1:05:13] Please check this out wherever you get your podcasts.

And while you're doing that, do me another favor. On your way out,

as you pass the weekend update exhibit, turn out the lights.

Because the SNL Hall of Fame is now closed.

This week on the SNL Hall of Fame podcast we're joined by the delightful Victoria Franco to discuss the bona fidas of writer John Mulaney.

Transcrlpt:

[0:41] Oh my goodness gracious me, oh my, it is my privilege to be joining you once

again this week in the SNL Hall of Fame.

The SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair where each episode we take a

deep dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest,

or writer, and add them to the ballot for your consideration.

Once the nominees have been announced, we turn to you, the listener,

to vote for the the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined

for perpetuity in the hall.

And that's how we play the game.

It's just that easy. But before we get to voting, we need to discuss our nominee.

And before we discuss our nominee, we need to speak with our friend Matt Ardill

in his minutiae minute corner.

What do you say we wander over there and see what old Matty is up to?

Track 3

[1:39] Hey, JD, how are you doing? I am parched, and I just had an enjoyable sip of

water, which has cleaned up the old pipes.

Yeah, nature soda, I've heard it called. Nature soda, I like it.

Yeah. I heard somebody say they won't drink water because fish have sex in it.

I i think that's a fair you know i i can

understand that but um you know run it through enough

purifiers it should be fine i mean i'm a

i'm a water fiend i drink like four liters a day oh it's yeah it's good for

the body that's right that's why i'm so uh uh easy on the eyes yeah you are

you are ripped are ripped right speaking of ripped this week we've got john,

Yeah, back again.

Um, so I did make the effort of finding new trivia, so it should be a long time

listener listeners. It should be interesting.

Track 3

[2:45] Um, uh, height six foot, uh, one of the taller, uh, uh, contestants for, or nominees actually.

Yeah. Yeah. Born August 26th, 1982. Yeah.

He has 28 writing credits, 42 actor credits, 13 producer credits.

I have to say, when I saw him in The Bear, it blew me away. It was really intense.

Did not expect that. So he's got a lot of good acting chops.

He's released five stand-up specials and his Sack Lunch Bunch Kids special.

Grew up in Chicago, child of a law professor, mother Ellen, and attorney father

Charles Charles Chip W. Mulaney.

Never mess with a chip. Anybody who's got Chip as a nickname, that's trouble.

Track 3

[3:35] But he's descended from a lot of political go-getters.

He's descended from the mayor of Salem and has congressmen on both sides of his family.

Track 3

[3:49] So, yeah, he's got a good pedigree.

His maternal grandmother, Carolyn Stanton, and Seth Meyers' mother,

Hillary Meyers, performed together at a hospital benefit show called Pills a

Poppin'. That's some foreshadowing.

And it was directed by Tommy Toon when they were 19 years old.

So there is some deep family connections going on there.

Yeah. So he attended Georgetown University, and as most people know,

with Nick. role where he studied English literature.

He decided he wanted to go to show into show business at the age of five after

watching a lifestyle program, uh, about Ricky Ricardo, uh, which is the most

John Mulaney thing I have ever read.

Um, like if anybody's going to set their life goals by watching Ricky Ricardo,

that would be John Mulaney.

Yeah. From that point, he started doing sketches for friends and family whenever given a chance and,

And he was pushed, actually, by his high school teacher to pursue his love of comedy.

He actually almost had the role, well, he almost auditioned for the role of

Kevin McAllister in Home Alone, but his parents wouldn't let him.

Track 3

[5:07] That is wild. Yeah, that would have been a very interesting and different Home Alone movie.

Track 3

[5:14] I can only imagine what 10-year-old John Mulaney would have brought to the game.

Um so instead he just

started hanging around the museum of broadcasting communications until he

got to go to university uh that when he

joined an improv group uh which is where

he met kroll and mike berbiglia uh who

took him on tour uh during his uh days

and that's how he lost his stage fright he's had his own show

with mulaney uh his own show mulaney he

also appeared as himself on jim gaffigan's sitcom where

he portrayed his jim gaffigan's

nemesis as himself and he's

taken roles in chip and dale spider-man cartoons of

spider-ham which you know perfect casting no notes.

Track 3

[5:59] His first late night gig was writing for conan

uh but he's also taken

on writing roles for seth myers uh

as and has also written for the academy awards and the

emmys he has had a couple couple of brushes with

broadway first uh bringing a special kid gorgeous

to radio city music hall and then bringing

oh hello the sketch from the cruel show to

being a broadway show where they just had

random famous people showing up he's also released an album the top part which

is just him telling anecdotes which i need to listen to now yeah i don't know

about that but it's just like him telling anecdotes and stories sign me up yeah

but uh his esoteric sense of humor has has led him to many projects.

Track 3

[6:44] Including contributing to Seth Meyers parody show documentary now.

Track 3

[6:48] And he is in fact a super fan of law and order.

Welcome to my.

Track 4

[7:16] Of flour All right, JD and Matt, thank you so much. Yes, we are here.

Another episode of the SNL Hall of Fame. I'm so excited about this one.

This is an interesting one. We're talking about somebody who's already been

on the ballot since season one, but in a different capacity.

We're kind of reorganizing our thoughts when it comes to this person.

We're reframing his Hall of Fame candidacy and his role on SNL.

So I'm talking about John Mulaney, who's been on the ballot as a host in previous times.

We decided, let's talk about him as a writer, because that was his starting point on SNL.

So we're talking John Mulaney as a writer today on the SNL Hall of Fame,

and joining me to do that, a previous guest.

You may have heard her on the Amy Poehler episode that we did.

You may have heard her on one of the end of season roundtables where she did

such a great job expressing her opinions that we always love to hear about.

And you've probably heard her on the SNN, our buddies over at the Saturday Night Network.

I'm talking about Victoria Fronzo is joining me today to chat about John Mulaney.

Track 4

[8:39] Victoria, how's it going? Doing well. I'm very excited to talk about the one

and only John Mulaney. I feel like we have similarities in, you know, being.

Track 4

[8:50] From chicago and the comedy scene i can

see that and you're one of my few guests there's a

handful of guests but you're one of my few guests who i've actually kind of

been able to hang out with in person so a

lot of us in the snl community know each other just by doing podcasts and online

but we've actually got to hang out in chicago so that was that was wonderful

and you're a very funny person so i can kind of see those similarities as well

yes i i took i took thomas to the best It's the best empanada place in Chicago. It's so good.

Yeah. It's delicious. We had empanadas. I got an horchata. I walked around Chicago.

It was a good time. Yes.

I'm going to plug Cafe Tola. Always support a Latina-owned business in Chicago.

So Cafe Tola is one of the best empanada places in the city of Chicago.

Yeah. Yeah. It was awesome. Great recommendation.

Track 4

[9:41] So you're living in Chicago right now. You're living the sketch comedy dream.

Dream? Like, what have you been up to over the last few months or so?

Oh, man. So I am, I, you know, moved back to Chicago last year from Detroit.

I'm back at the Second City.

I finished the conservatory slash grad review program, which was really awesome.

And now I'm getting ready for my own SNL showcase because I am an SNL scholar

at the Second City, which just

means that Saturday Night Live pays for my classes and training there.

And at the end of it, we get to put together whether a showcase that is SNL-like

and that it's sketches and solo pieces.

And yeah, that's open to the public. So if you're around, feel free to come.

I'm also just doing some writing and performing on the side too.

Track 4

[10:28] Yeah, if you're in Chicago, that sounds like an awesome deal.

Go support Victoria and go support these SNL scholars and what they're doing

over there at Second City in Chicago.

It's such a cool thing. If I live closer, I would have already attended.

I think I missed it by a week as well when I was up there last.

Yeah, you should just, I don't know.

Track 4

[10:48] Rearrange your whole life and come back to Chicago. No excuse is she saying? Yes.

We have, I mean, the SNL scholars are four of us.

One of them quite literally flew across the world to be here from Austria.

So it's a nice blend of folks that we've got in the cast.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm excited to hear how it goes.

And, again, if anybody's in the area, please go check it out.

Go check out Victoria there at Second City.

Somebody who probably is an influence to a lot of Second City folks,

I'm sure you included, is our topic today, John Mulaney.

He's a stand-up by trade. He auditioned to be a cast member for SNL.

He auditioned at the same time as Nick Kroll, Donald Glover,

Ellie Kemper, Bobby Moynihan, who obviously ended up getting it.

Mulaney did not get the cast member job, but he ended up being offered a writing

job, which he immediately accepted.

So he was a writer from 2009 to 2012.

So going from auditioning to be a cast member to getting a writing job,

that's not a bad deal, Victoria.

I would certainly take that. I don't know about you. I would.

I would take a janitor job at SNL, to be honest with you.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, if they offered me the janitor job, if they offered me whatever

page, I always wanted to be, I should have started young and tried to be a page.

I know. Even then, though, it's so hard.

Track 4

[12:16] It's easier if you're in New York City and had connections to NBC to be a page.

Yeah, and I think NBC and SNL made the right choice.

Mulaney probably would have been a pretty decent cast member.

Remember, he would have added his own flair, but we got the chance to really

enjoy his writing stuff and his work as a writer.

So I want to talk about his stand-up, Victoria. Are you a fan of Mulaney's stand-up?

I am. So to be completely honest.

It's going to shock some people here. I didn't really know about John Mulaney up until 2019.

I had no idea who he was, and I've always been an SNL fan.

I never went deep, though, into learning who the writers were or whatnot.

But a friend of mine told me, you know, there's this guy.

He just released a special on Netflix. He's so up your alley.

And I go, what's his name? She goes, you don't know who that is?

It's an SNL writer, John Mulaney. And I go, I have no idea who that is.

Track 4

[13:22] And watched his stand-up. And I don't want to say fell in love because that's inappropriate.

But I did come to love his comedy very much.

I'm a little bit in love with Mulaney and his comedy. So you could say fell

in love. I think that's somewhat appropriate.

I just don't, you know, he's got a partner. He does. I don't want to be disrespectful.

He's a dad now. It's a little murky.

Yeah, he's a full papa now.

Yeah, so you fell in love with the stand-up material. What was it about the

material that really grabbed you?

I loved that he was weird.

Or not weird, but he could find the weird in everyday things and make it funny.

And not only that, you know, not to say he's a clean comedian by chance, but he...

He's smart about his comedy, if that makes sense.

He's smart and strategic versus, you know, going blue, as we say in comedy,

to lean in as a crutch, which was really refreshing.

Track 4

[14:27] I think his stand-ups changed a little bit, and that's totally fair.

And as it should, like as you grow and change, so should your content.

I didn't expect it to stay the same, but even now with baby Jay,

after everything that's happened the last couple of years, it's still really funny to me.

And I love that he's kind of poked fun at his likability. And I think that's what it is.

He's likable even in this new chapter of his life.

Track 4

[14:53] I think he has this specific relatability, if that makes sense.

That's what I point about. He focuses on hyper-specific things,

I think, his specific observations, but he makes them relatable,

whether it's, I know that concept

that he's talking about, or I've also observed that specific thing.

I think Mulaney's always been so good at that. I think it does show up in his sketch work as well.

You brought up a really good point, too, with Working Blue and his choice.

I mean, he's not a clean comic. I mean, he does curse, but it's for effect.

If he curses it's for a reason he's not

just using the f word as some sort of verbal pause

like a lot of comedians do it's uh

mulaney's very strategic about it and he's he's

very strategic about his comedy in general victoria that's what i love about

a lot of his stand-up is i feel like one of my really funny friends is talking

to me and telling me a story so he makes it conversational but you can tell

and appreciate the craft that went into it at the same time It's a really neat,

delicate balance that Mulaney strikes, I think.

Track 4

[16:03] You know, male comics, not all, of course, I'm not going to generalize them,

but some of them, and quite a few of them, tend to play the D-bag role in their stand-up, right?

And that can be funny at times, and I'm not opposed to it. I'll watch any type of comedy.

I'll never say no, unless they're incredibly problematic or outwardly horrible.

But that's what differentiated him. him he wasn't playing a bro he wasn't you

know womanizing he wasn't you know he didn't he never really punches down in

his comedy which is something i think is admirable too in a takeaway,

yeah he punches a lot of times he punches at himself he like punches inward and especially.

Track 4

[16:51] Laterally yeah he punches laterally like a t-rex like you i think you should

have seen victoria on on camera she was punching and it looked like she was

like a t-rex arms punching laterally that's what and that's how i punch in real

life so don't mess oh no don't ever fight please,

begging you um yeah no

you're right and he's very he's self-deprecating but not in an annoying kind

of way it's like a lot of comedians are self-deprecating like all right it kind

of comes off as fake like you're making fun of yourself but do you really believe

it i think mulaney i believe it especially with baby j you mentioned baby j

his most recent special when he was talking Talking about his intervention,

I think that was so great.

It was self-deprecating, but it was like honest.

And he was almost making fun of other people, but it would go back to him.

And it was, I think Baby J was a, we've seen it throughout his comedy.

Kid Gorgeous is one of my favorite stand-up specials of all time. Yes.

That's from like 2018, around the time maybe that you get. That was the first one I watched.

Yeah, okay. Maybe, yeah, Kid Gorgeous was the special. and I think that's one

of my favorite all-time stand-up specials by anybody and you could just see

his voice in that just it shines through and I think you could see.

Track 4

[18:10] On SNL, that comedic voice of Mulaney's show up on his work on SNL.

I mean, would you say that that's correct? He has a stamp on his sketches. That's Mulaney. Yeah.

Yeah, I was going to say in preparation for this, I've come to realize a lot

of my favorite stuff on SNL written by Mulaney.

Yeah. Or stuff that I'm laughing out loud. I'm like, oh, that's really funny.

That's tied to Mulaney. but I do want to go back to his stand-up.

I just want to shout out a joke he did.

It's the McDonald's joke. I think it's from The Comeback Kid.

He and his family are on a road trip, and they see the golden arches,

and they start chanting, McDonald's, McDonald's, McDonald's.

And my dad pulled into the drive-thru, and we started cheering.

And then he ordered one black coffee for himself.

Track 4

[19:08] And kept driving.

And you know, as mad as that made me as a little kid, in retrospect,

that is the funniest thing I have ever seen in my entire life.

How perfect is that?

He had a vanload of little kids, and he got black coffee, the one thing from

McDonald's no child could enjoy.

Yeah, and now in my family, my parents watch that

with me every time we see a mcdonald's even though we

don't necessarily go to eat from mcdonald's anymore we chant mcdonald's so yeah

it's something like that no that's perfect but something like that that's so

specific that that you know happened to him or whatever but it's so relatable

at the same time like you just you understand that family dynamic,

that he's talking about uh there was something from kid gorgeous uh one of my

favorite bits is when he was comparing Trump to a horse loose in a hospital.

This guy being the president, it's like there's a horse loose in a hospital.

Track 4

[20:16] It's like there's a horse loose in a hospital.

I think eventually everything's going to be okay, but I have no idea what's going to happen next.

And neither do any of you, and

neither do your parents, because there's a horse loose in the hospital.

It's never happened before.

No one knows what the horse is going to do next. Least of all the horse,

he's never been in a hospital before.

He's as confused as you are. That's a fantastic imagery, perfect metaphor, perfect beats.

Like, I think that's one of the better bits of any comedian I've seen,

like, in the last 10 years.

And that's the perfect way to describe him.

Because last week, I watched Kid Gorgeous again. And I was just like,

yeah, no, that holds true. Yeah.

Track 4

[21:07] Yeah, no, it's a perfect, yeah, it's a perfect way to describe that president.

Yeah, pretty much, yeah. And it's so Mulaney, too.

It's such a Mulaney way to describe his presidency as well. That's what I love.

Like, some of my favorite comedians, he's just, like, hyper-specific voice.

We did another writer, Julio Torres, recently on the SNL Hall of Fame,

and he's another one where it's just like I would watch a sketch,

and that's Julio Torres' voice. I watched something from Mulaney,

and that's Mulaney's perspective and his voice.

So I think that's just a mark of a really great writer is nothing generic.

It's your stamp on it. And I'm glad I have you on here today.

I want to take advantage of like your training and your knowledge and everything

just for sketch writing in general.

Victoria, like as a viewer of sketch comedy and somebody who takes part in sketch

comedy, who works in it. What are some things you look for in good sketch writing?

Oh, man.

Track 4

[22:09] Obviously, it's subjective and everyone's everyone's different.

I love what I love callbacks to something.

So if you're watching a full show, this only mostly pertains to stage or theater

comedy versus, you know, an SNL type show.

But when they do something in the like in an earlier sketch and then they call

it back, it's called a runner.

You know there are all these ties i really love that because that's it's

a smart way to put the show together and create somewhat of

a theme in terms of sketch i

just love when there's a character with a purpose right and

there's a character who's who the other characters in the sketch compliment

them and this is something we were talking talking about before we went live

here everyone in that sketch serves a purpose and it's not just they're just

there to fill space and and let this main character be weird.

We talked about Herb Welch.

Track 4

[23:06] We know this is about Herb Welch, but every character from the anchor at the

studio to the people he's interviewing, they all compliment him,

and they serve a purpose to show something,

a characteristic about that person, if that makes sense. I don't know if I'm

describing that accurately.

Yeah, no, it's almost where, Where even if a character on screen is nonsensical,

it has to be grounded in something.

Correct. That's what I want to say, grounded. Yeah, it has to be grounded in something.

And the people that you mentioned, like the supporting characters,

serve as the characters who maybe ground whatever's happening.

Yes. Either to highlight the absurdity or whatever. But you're right.

Good sketch writing, I think, nothing should be throwaway.

Track 4

[23:55] And I think that's, was that something like that you, what we're getting at

too is just, you know, like you said, like the grounding aspect,

but also like no, like an economy of words in a way.

Like you have to use the three minutes that you have like wisely and efficiently.

Yes. And I like when things are succinct and to the point versus drawn out and we don't get it.

Or I like what you said about throw away. way.

Sometimes, a lot of times, I should say, sketches don't need those extra lines

that you think they need, right, to justify.

You know, a character doesn't have to say, hi, mom and dad.

We should be able to know that just based on, we need to start in the middle of that.

Or of like, well, thanks for coming to my wine and cheese night.

We're going to do X, Y, Z. It's just start in the middle of the scene.

We get, like, we see the wine, we see the cheese, you know what I mean?

I mean, it doesn't have to be about the wine and cheese.

That's, you know, just a random situation, just an example.

I don't know. And I just – my favorite thing about Mulaney is that he's kind of bold, too.

I don't think a lot of people would be making the same jokes that he was making. I don't know.

That's also to say I don't think he would make the same jokes as he did 10,

12, 13, 14 years ago either.

Track 4

[25:21] Times have changed. But, you know, I think he did a good job of,

I don't know, I like sometimes fearless comedy.

And I'm not saying that as an excuse to be a jerk, right? Right, there's a difference.

Yeah, there's a difference. You should never be a jerk and, you know,

make cheap shots and, you know, make marginalized people the butt of the joke.

That's not what I'm saying at all. But, you know, don't be so afraid to talk

about the things that are just real life and are real to those groups or, you know what I mean?

Track 4

[25:55] Yeah. Yeah, and I think we saw a lot of that show up, of course,

and the thing that sticks out to me and you and probably every SNL fan with

Mulaney is a lot of those things that you just mentioned showed up in Stefan,

which Mulaney wrote with Bill Hader.

And that was the best thing, I think, that almost pretty much anybody has ever done on SNL.

This is one of my personal favorite things ever on SNL. yeah and

i think with stefan melanie's very

good at what you just mentioned victoria's showing

on her notebook she has a stefan sticker so

obviously a fan of stefan but

i think melanie's good at referencing things that seem very specific but

are oddly relatable in stefan he's very good about not punching

down at marginalized people but still making jokes involving marginalized

people in a lot of ways so talk about victoria like

talk about stefan just in general like what do you want want to say about this

awesome piece of art and something i

failed to mention again i did not do

a good job of explaining why i find in a sketch but

specificity specificity is that a word that's very much a word and you did a

good job there you go thank you english is my second language as i like to joke

um no but he has specifics that make it incredibly weird and and stefan right um.

Track 4

[27:17] Um, you know, I don't, I can, I don't know that I can describe some of the things,

you know, Stefan would say, again, I don't think we'd be making the same jokes today,

which is fair and fine and understandable, but you know, I don't want to say

the word, but he was talking about real life suitcases where they wear,

where they wear people, but he used the M word.

Yes. And like, I think it was like

layering clothes on and putting on rollerblades. And you know what I mean?

Just like how stupid, you know, that's just like a stupid, funny joke.

Um, yeah, that imagery.

Yeah. The, the imagery of it is fun. And I love the game between Stefan and Seth of.

Track 4

[28:02] No, we're looking for suggestions for, you know, a Midwestern family or anybody who's not you.

I got it already. Okay. New York's hottest club is Bush.

This club has everything. Ghosts. Good. Banjos. Carl Palladino.

A stuck-up kitten who won't sign autographs.

Furcles. Oh, do I want to know? Yes, you do. So furcles are? Fat urcles. Right.

Of course they are. Sure. Sure they are.

And after you've been with one of those guys, you'll ask yourself, did I do that?

Track 4

[28:47] Stefan. Just these like weird, random, yet very specific things that don't necessarily

fit together that are under the same roof at whatever club is.

It was just, yeah, it was a nice blend of weird but specific.

And, you know, I think it worked for Stefan.

Yeah, I absolutely agree. One of my favorite jokes that he did is Stefan.

The cast is a special guest. Have you heard of Blackula, the black Dracula? Yes.

Well, they have a Jewish Dracula. Oh, what's his name? Sidney Applebaum.

Track 4

[29:33] Sidney Applebaum. Jewish. Jewish Dracula.

Sidney. It's that misdirection, that funny misdirection. I could totally tell

Mulaney was sitting there like, I gotta do some sort of misdirection jokes.

You think he's obviously going to do a play, like blackula is

a play on black dracula he says jewish dracula there's

gonna be a play on that but it's just a jewish name and

that's totally mulaney's sense of humor and i

appreciate that and also the game of i i uh i

don't know if you and i've ever talked about breaking before in in

sketches first of all okay so how do you feel just

in general like about breaking i think there's a time and place you know if

you're just breaking right off the bat it's not not funny if you're doing it

excessively it's not funny it just depends and maybe like for example debbie

downer what worked for that sketch was that everyone was breaking constantly,

but that was like a joint yeah this is funny and ridiculous and we're you know

the fact they couldn't get through it was funny to us but if it's a single person

who's just breaking and it doesn't seem genuine.

Track 4

[30:51] They kind of ruined it. Yeah. Yeah. I think with Stefan, to me,

it did seem genuine. As the audience, we started kind of knowing the game that

Mulaney was playing with Bill Hader in there.

So Mulaney would change the cue cards.

He would change the punchlines to some of the jokes.

And so when Bill, as Stefan, was reading the joke, that could have been the

first time that he was reading that specific punchline.

Even though they did it in dress i think between dress and air milani would

he would have punch lines like multiple versions of a

punch line of a joke so he would just switch out punch lines

between dress and air so that'd be the first time that we saw bill reading that

joke so i think in breaking in that case yes it's funny there's like a funny

game it's part of this bit or whatever and it's something that with debbie downer

i think the first time they did it was natural and that's That's why it was a classic.

And then they tried to recreate it and it wasn't the same.

And they found the magic with Stefan being able to recreate the game of breaking.

And I don't know how they did it. They weren't able to recreate it.

And Debbie Downer, Lisa from Temecula recently, I don't think they've been able to recreate that.

But with Stefan, millennium hater managed to recreate breaking and make it seem authentic every time.

Like, I wonder why that is, Victoria, what's the difference?

Track 4

[32:17] Well, it's probably because every single thing Stefan says is he's a firecracker.

You don't know what he's going to say, and he doesn't know what he's going to say.

And I think why that's getting a laugh is that those folks in studio are also seeing that.

They're seeing the switch or whatever. But I think it works for them because.

Track 4

[32:39] The nature of Stefan is so out there and wild and weird that he's not a relatable character.

He's not saying the run-of-the-mill things of, oh, my favorite breakfast is pancakes with bacon.

He's saying some very weird things.

And to say them in person, out loud, in front of an audience is kind of,

you know, like, what am I saying? I do that too sometimes.

His favorite breakfast would be like uppers and regret. Or something like that. I don't know.

Yeah. And I mean, I've gotten my breaking under control. But I've broken on stage.

Yeah. And it's just funny because I'm, and to me, what's making it funny is

we've been rehearsing this.

And we've got the joke. And, you know, we've, whatever.

But now we're sharing this with other people who are not comedians.

Track 4

[33:37] And we don't know how they're going to react to what we know is ridiculous and

I'm going to say it and hope for the best.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Part of the breaking is that we're now saying this

in front of people who we don't know.

We don't know what they're going to say, how they're going to react to it essentially.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a really neat perspective on breaking, I guess from a performer's side of it.

I think, yeah, just as long as it doesn't feel forced or – Yes,

I think that's what I – you're better at words today than I am,

but that's what I meant of when you're solo or you start breaking off the bat or whatever it is.

If it just doesn't seem genuine, if you're not actually laughing,

you're just doing it to deflect or try to make this funnier or trying to be funny by breaking –.

Track 4

[34:27] I don't think it works. I think people will notice that. And if you're genuinely

breaking, people will laugh with you and not at you.

Yeah, essentially, Mulaney's a magician when it comes to this because he was

able to make it seem authentic and part of the game and everything like that with Stefan.

So Stefan, by the way, on the Saturday Night Network's character countdown,

I believe he was number one. I was on that episode.

Yeah, he was number one. Do you agree with Stefan? Like, could you see him being

number one in a character countdown?

It's 49 years of history, I know. But what do you think of that?

I'm trying to think of, well, okay, hold on. I was going to say,

who else would be number one?

But I really love some of Kristen Wiig's characters, too. But Stefan being number

one is a fair assessment.

That kind of makes sense, right? Yeah. Because there are no diminishing returns, too.

So I think that's another thing about good sketch writing. writing

is if you keep writing the same

for the same character and how are the returns

on it with Stefan I don't think Victoria there was diminishing returns

on Stefan it might have gotten better honestly so that as a sketch writer and

somebody who appreciates sketch like how that that's such a sometimes a rare

thing not to see diminishing returns for a recurring character no that's completely

accurate it's a fair assessment I was like unless you're doing.

Track 4

[35:52] A specific show about those same characters but

yeah no it's i think

that's one thing that stefan got the same

amount of laughs if not even more laughs every time he he

showed up yeah and that's just great writing and

great performance by bill of course bill hater yep amazing performer

but that's just like the team like millennia bill just such a wonderful team

uh so stefan on yeah we love victoria has a step on sticker on her notebook

so we we all love step on uh something that that i've always loved very relatable

thing of forgetting people's names,

uh so it's presented in a fun way by millennia so millennia's behind the what's

that name sketches so victoria these are these get me every time i think he

did three of them But all three were just fantastic.

You know, like a relatable premise. I love these. What did you think of what's that name?

Track 4

[36:50] It's interesting. So I have a very millennial slash Gen Z take on this.

So there are people that will follow me and I follow them back on Instagram.

And we have our names on Instagram.

But I won't know their real name, but I know their Instagram name. Oh, no.

And, for example, this literally happened last night where there's this person

who's – I've met them in person, and we follow each other on Instagram,

but I forgot their real name. Is it me?

Did you forget my name? Tim.

Track 4

[37:31] No his name is thomas everybody his name is thomas it

says it in the top top left corner

here um no but there's a person that i

ran into and i forgot his real name

and i was about to call him his

instagram handle but i think it's

just again it's a very funny premise i think

that's a great take on how to present this versus doing

a real life like relationship sketch

if that makes sense yeah you know i love that they put

it in game format and not just hey we're at a hot dog stand and i don't know

your name and what kind of game can we play within the sketch i love that the

format of it is a game show yeah i think game show sketches get a bad rap like

people say oh oh, another game show sketch.

But I think that it's format. Like the format of a game show is ripe to present

jokes, to present situations.

Track 4

[38:28] I think it just gets a bad rap. But to me, it being a game show sketch in and

of itself, I don't think it's a bad thing. It's just about execution.

Just like with any of this stuff, it's about the execution. I agree with you

that it was a good idea to make this a game show.

And, of course, Bill Hader, like arguably one of the best game show hosts in SNL history.

You can make him a game show host with anything. Yeah. Knock it out of the park.

I know your whole family. Your son Avi loves Outer Space. What's my name?

Track 4

[39:01] Carl? Audience, what's that name? Norman.

Norman the doorman. Oh, I'm so sorry.

Say hi to the wife for me. I'm sorry, what's that? that, say hi to my wife.

Yeah, OK, I'll take the bus out to Forest Hills Cemetery and tell her that you say hello.

Track 4

[39:24] God, what the hell kind of show is this? It's What's That Name?

The interactions between Hader and the contestants, he was like,

Bill Hader was antagonistic.

He's like the sadistic game show host. He was like, I know you forget names,

and I'm doing this on purpose to put you in this position.

So uh yeah the the first one

they did was uh season 36 episode 9

uh it was mulaney he he co-wrote these

with uh simon rich who he collaborated collaborated with a lot and merica sawyer

so there's like his writing partners a lot of the time on the show and he collaborated

with them on what's that name it was like paul rudd vanessa bear keenan comes

out as uh the doorman and paul rudd's trying to remember the name it's norman the doorman like Like,

how easy is it to remember that name?

So these are just, like, lovely, lovely sketches.

He did it, too, when he came back to host as well.

Track 4

[40:23] Yeah, I thought that was very funny. Keena was like, I know your son,

and he loves outer space. What's my name?

And, yeah, it was very, very funny. I love that one and the one with Mulaney

and Cecily, that the women were, you know, executives in part.

Like, you know, they were high-ranking in their workplaces, so shout-out to

that, and not just making them stay-at-home moms or whatever it is.

Mulaney and Simon Rich and Marika Sawyer lifting up women.

Yes. In the What's That Name sketch. Bonus points.

Yeah. For the SNL Hall of Fame if you lift up women.

Yeah. You have to.

In this economy, you have to. In this economy, that's just, yeah.

Bonus points for the SNL Hall of Fame candidacy. So What's That Name?

I know just a fan favorite that Mulaney was behind along with Marika Sawyer and Simon Rich.

Track 4

[41:22] Something that's very Mulaney specific to me it's a funny observation about

Lifetime movies and Mulaney's done this in his stand up not specifically about

Lifetime movies but he's talked about what like Law and Order,

and made funny observations about that recently at the Academy Awards he had

a whole thing about Field of Dreams that was great.

Shout out Field of Dreams what a good movie what a good movie.

It's a little absurd though in a lot of ways that Mulaney I mean,

yeah, he did that for, um, what's funny is that Field of Dreams and the Fugitive,

which he, which he described.

Oh, I forgot what standup special it was. Like.

Two movies my family loved watching together growing up, and he described them so ridiculous.

It was funny. Ridiculous but accurate, but it was very funny.

Yeah, in a loving way. He's so good about taking just the grinding at the heart

of what makes something its essence, the essence of what makes something silly

and ridiculous, and really highlighting that stuff.

So he did a sketch in season 37. He wrote a sketch called What's Wrong with Tanya.

Okay, let's go over the rules. a lifetime movie Tanya will walk out and you'll

have 15 seconds to guess what's wrong with her. There's nothing wrong with her!

Yes, yes there is.

Let's bring out our first Tanya.

Track 4

[42:49] All right, mothers, what is wrong with Tanya?

Tanya! Tanya! Tanya! Oh my God, look at me! Tanya! Tanya! Tanya!

Mary Jo Beth Jojo! Tanya! You've been going to those parties where girls do

oral sex for bracelets! That's right!

Track 4

[43:08] That's right! Of course, Bill Hader again, playing a villainous kind of host.

It was a very specific observation about Lifetime movies, Victoria.

And I don't know if you've watched a lot of Lifetime movies,

but this was painfully accurate i was gonna ask you if you've watched any and

if you go back to this they have the old logo.

Track 4

[43:29] Which is just incredible like that logo

brought up a lot of memories from being a young girl

watching lifetime i feel like i was home growing up like being home sick and

when the price is right was done i'd be flipping channels and maybe something

ridiculous on lifetime would be on and And he would kind of suck me in for like

15 to 20 minutes. But I know the beats.

So I know the beats of those movies.

I know that what was portrayed in the What's Wrong with Tanya sketch is completely

accurate. He got the archetypes just right.

Yes. Yeah, I love the contestants all being the same thing. Yeah.

Just like what, the nosy neighbor kind of?

Yeah, and they all kind of look like Martha Stewart. Stewart.

You're right. I didn't pick up on that. Yeah, they were just,

it was the same person in different font.

Like, each contestant, like, they were all blonde, they were all wearing the

same shades of pink and cream, same personality.

It was, and I'm like, yeah, that's, those are the people watching Lifetime. And maybe even...

Even some of the characters in Lifetime movies. You're right.

Yeah, he also is poking fun at the viewers of these movies as well.

I can definitely see that. My favorite part is when Andy Samberg comes out.

Track 4

[44:49] But it can happen to a boy. So you thought. All right, mothers,

what's wrong with boy Tanya?

Tanya. Oh, no. Boy Tanya. What's wrong with boy Tanya? Boy Tanya.

Boy Tanya. Boy Tanya. Major William. Tanya, you're a secret stripper. No.

Tanya you're pregnant what no come on tanya your english teacher caught you

cheating so he made you take naked pictures and now they're online and it's

giving you an eating disorder and also you can't read.

Track 4

[45:25] I don't know calling him boy tanya is just

such like a mulaney like chef's kiss kind of touch to

me and guessing that he's pregnant like yeah

and then bill hater's like what no and then they just

gotta move on yeah and like said

what was it what was ended up happening with him something

about seeing something that left him with an eating

disorder or something yeah he had an eating disorder and something yeah i'll

yeah i'll go i'll go play back but i'll go play back for sure yeah but that

was just such such great beats in this though the winning contestant does the

the lightning round while the other two contestants watch while pretending to rake leaves.

That's like such a specific observation that, that he threw into this.

It's so perfect. It's so, I'm going to say this a lot.

It's so Mulaney. This whole thing. I love at the end, um, he grabs her.

She's like, you're hurting me. Who's going to believe you?

Yeah. You're not, you're not going anywhere. You'll never leave me.

And those are classic lifetime movie. Yeah.

Track 4

[46:27] Lines yeah mulaney again so good

about mining for the specificity in

something and really highlighting it and

the absurdity that comes with it that's like that's

why i love mulaney truth be told he's my

favorite working comedian right now like stand-up wise

because of these little things because of

the way he structures things and observes things and and

presents thing so he Mulaney is my favorite

stand-up comedian right now he has the championship belt

for me wow I don't

know if that's that's a that's a big claim it's a

big claim I know I stand by it you stand

up by it no oh geez something

else that I stand by this

happened happened actually uh when he was

hosting but it was such a millennia thing one

of the one of my favorite sketches of the past

few years and i don't know i haven't really talked to a ton of people about

this one um and i think you said you watched it it's the monkey judge one yes

from season 47 i think that this is like to me this almost structurally is like

a perfect sketch Your Honor,

it is obvious that you're favoring the defense. That is ridiculous.

Your Honor, I love Judge.

Track 4

[47:53] I love you. I love Judge.

You are baby. Judge, love baby. Bring Judge, baby. Judge, love you. Judge, favor defense.

Oh, come on. Yeah, we move to request a new judge.

Are you suggesting that I'm not competent? confident tango made these pieces

match sure it was a bit of trial and error but i did it i won the juice.

Track 4

[48:23] You don't have to think it's like a perfect sketch but what did you what were

your impressions of it well one i want someone to love me as much as you love

john mulaney my goodness no that was a very very funny sketch.

And I think, again, something we've been saying and will continue to say about

John Mulaney are, it's this attention to detail and picking up on everyday things and those,

little details of the everyday things and bringing them up and presenting them to us, right?

Oh, yeah. A lot of it's like, oh, yeah, I never thought about that.

It's a lot of what I think when I watch and listen to his stuff.

It's like, oh, yeah, that's exactly what they do.

You know, talking about how, you know, in this sketch, oh, he's smiling.

No, he's just like showing his teeth to assert dominance.

Like those specific details or, you know, blue shape, blah, blah, blah.

Track 4

[49:24] Just pointing out those specific things is what works for him.

And it's very smart, right? Yeah.

He's able to describe those things that I wouldn't be able to describe.

Yeah. A lot of people wouldn't. And he has a great way of, again,

pulling the very minute and blowing it up to make it funny.

And I think that's what worked in this sketch. And it was about monkeys, right?

We all have seen monkeys. monkeys but he but he was

able to one personify that that monkey

and also you know put in

front of us how monkeys act and what that would

look like in a in a courtroom essentially yeah it's

almost like i had when i was done watching the sketch i had just

finished watching like a documentary on monkeys because i felt like

i learned so much but it was also very

funny just funny acute observations like when he

was when melissa via senor she played the character that that

got injured by uh by somebody's pet

monkey and she was talking

about they asked her the question like what kind of hat were you

wearing and she's like i usually wear a bucket hat but i was wearing a different

hat and then as the monkey judge he's like so let me get this straight you approach

this person as a completely different shape and you expect or you approach this

monkey as a completely different shape and you expected him to be just be cool

about that like yeah like No, that's so funny.

Track 4

[50:49] So was this a new hat? Well, I usually wear an orange bucket hat,

but I was wearing a green baseball cap.

Track 4

[50:56] Yeah. Which is, you know. You thought the monkey would just be cool with this?

You were completely different. Yeah.

Track 4

[51:02] That's fair. He gets mad at Keenan. He's like, I will now throw sand at you to show dominance.

And he like tossed sand at him. like this yeah it was just so

again very mulaney to have like

the behavioral traits of a monkey but present

them as very human in a

courtroom setting i don't know i was like blown

away by this sketch when i saw it i thought it was so smart

and i thought the structure was great shout out simon rich and please don't

destroy who also were helped with this but this is a recent recent sketch it

was from season 40 it was two seasons ago season 47 yeah i'm just like i was

just like really honestly blown away by like the writing of this sketch,

so what else would you like to bring up victoria i've already i expressed my

love for monkey judge so i think i'd like kind of tap out on that and spare

everybody my complete like maybe we'll do a bonus one an hour and a half episode

of me just breaking down monkey judge but is there anything else from melanie that you want to bring up,

I feel like we're going to have to bring up one of the musicals,

either Diner Lobster or Bodega Bathroom. I think that's kind of essential.

Which one? Okay, which one's your favorite out of the musicals?

And we'll talk about that one.

Bodega Bathroom. Hey man, do you have a bathroom?

Track 4

[52:24] A what? A bathroom, like a bathroom

I could use? Dude, did you just ask to use a bathroom in a bodega?

I mean, what? Who cares? It's an emergency.

Would you like the key to the bathroom? Charlie, yo, if you do this,

I don't think we can be friends anymore, man.

Dude, relax. It's just a bathroom. I'm sure it's fine. It's a cinder block, bro.

And so it shall be. Oh, Bodega Cat! Show this man to the bathroom.

I never watched Les Mis, so... Me neither.

Really? Really? Yeah, I'm not really. We had to kind of read it,

I think, in high school. Was it Les Mis? Yeah.

Yeah. But I never, I don't really remember it. But I felt like I remembered it.

Like, it still felt familiar, them doing Les Mis in this sketch.

I'm going to tell you how uncultured I am right now, Thomas.

I don't even really know what Les Mis is about. Something about French.

French war. A French something happened.

You don't have to sell me on you being uncultured, Victoria.

I already know. So it's fine.

So Thomas, I like your humor because it's nonchalant and you don't need to try hard.

Like you just slip it in and it's part of your everyday like speech.

And I don't know if you've intended it this way, but I'm taking that as a compliment.

It is. It is a compliment.

Track 4

[53:51] Thank you, Victoria. Because you don't shift your tone. You just say it as you would anything else.

That's the Mulaney you think about me. I don't know. Yeah. I just have to think

twice. I'm like, did he? No, this is a joke. Yeah.

Which makes it funnier. No, we can talk about Bodega Bathroom.

Yeah. Yeah. So remind us what the beats, kind of the beats of Bodega Bathroom.

So one, I want to shout out that I don't see Pete Davidson as a musical type guy.

I can't see him, you know, watching Anything Goes, Kinky Boots, Wicked.

I can't see him watching those things. But I don't know him.

I don't know him personally.

I've only met him once for a solid second and a half on his 21st birthday, I should tell you.

And his 21st birthday was nine years ago. So I do not know Pete Davidson.

I just know what the media has told me. And they're not telling me much here.

Nonetheless, I love that he's in, he's the center.

Track 4

[54:58] Both of these pieces, the diner lobster and bodega bathroom, is just a weird fit.

But essentially, Pete Davidson asked the bodega owner to use the bathroom,

which then sets off a musical chain of events, revealing a secret.

As all these musical sketches do, he did five in a row.

From seasons 43 to 47, he hosted five times, and this was like a staple of these episodes.

Episodes so uh so yeah bodega bathroom colin

jost and gary richardson it's

worth a close oh that was a colin jost yeah colin

well wow one of the stories about these musicals is

that mulaney and jost when they were both on

the writing staff they tried to get diner lobster

on in like 2010 or something

like a long time ago and they could just.

Track 4

[55:50] Never get it on for whatever reason i think mulaney maybe said that

it didn't play well uh at the pitch meeting

or whatever so it never got past that level

uh but when mulaney hosted he

and jost were like yeah we got to get this on let's try to

get diner lobster let's do it so that's what that's like

the genesis of these musical sketches was them trying to

get diner lobster on when they were writers and it

didn't happen so yeah so jost is

definitely like huge part of these as well i

was gonna say i did not know that yeah that's a

good surprise you he's not he's not just

a pretty punchable face oh yeah well

he dubbed himself that so he did his words not mine

that's on him yeah um no i

i didn't know that that was i just thought i

thought john mulaney loved musicals i

think he does i think he has the spirit of a

theater kid does that make sense yes like

he was very even in his stand-up he's very he speaks to the back of the audience

he's very dramatic in his presentation and it's very theatrical yes so this

doesn't surprise me that he would want to do theater musical based based sketches.

I also, so I'm not a huge musical girly myself. Like I love some musicals.

I did musicals in high school.

Track 4

[57:16] Or was at least part of them. But I do try to put musicals on stage.

Track 4

[57:24] I try to do musical style stuff. I don't know. We'll talk about that later another day. But yeah.

Yeah. Harnessing your John Mulaney energy with that.

I'm consistently harnessing the John Mulaney energy. That's good energy to be harnessed.

This is like a celebration. This is a loose kind of episode,

I suppose, because it fits john mulaney it's very uh

just a very celebratory i like

i feel when i did that when i went and did research and not

research when i reached rewatch stuff for this it

just always it just put me in a good mood it put me in like a great

headspace because just mulaney has that

ability he has that touch and that's why

you know we we've gone through herb welch coach stefan what's that name some

of the one-off stuff like like monkey judge the great great monkey judge uh

what's wrong with tanya mentioned his musicals like that's a quite the hall of fame.

Track 4

[58:24] Resume wouldn't you say victoria like if you

were a writer on snl would you not be proud to have all of

that on your resume absolutely i think there's

also a component here in that this boy

got range like he has it's a

variety of stuff you know stefan is a

standalone character that they've done some they've put

him in a sketch or two but then he was a stand-up you

know a recurring character you know uh game

shows musicals and

then of course your your average sketches that

you're putting on here on on the on the show

i think it speaks to the variety

that he brings even though it's a

Mulaney style sketch and you can tell when

he's you know had a part in it he still brings some

a few different things to the table and I

think that's really impressive and I qualifies him for the hall

of fame and not only that you know people

love John Mulaney even if they're not watching SNL they're

watching his stand-up or they know about him or

they know that he's had an impact on SNL through his writing and they can tell

you anyone can tell you hey John Mulaney did this they're very aware too he's

a likable person and I know he you know says likability is a jail but I think.

Track 4

[59:47] Just calling it out. He's been through a few things in the last couple years.

And I commend him for getting back up on his feet.

And I don't know his journey well enough to judge and I'm not going to I would

never I would never be able to judge a situation like that.

But I think he's done an excellent job of reclaiming himself and his comedy

and kind of reintroducing himself to the world as, hey, I'm not this perfect,

you know, button up guy, I do have some flaws.

And I think he shows that in Baby J. But even in Baby J., though it was different

from his past work, was still funny and still called out those details and the

specifics and, you know, the mundane things.

And he was able to do it in his own way.

And people, I think, just appreciate that about him.

And there's no, he really is the comeback kid, is what I'll say.

And I think his his work speaks for itself.

Even if you didn't know his name, you know, his sketches, you know,

everyone knows who Stefan is. Stefan is a beloved.

I think Stefan in and of itself qualifies him for, for the hall of fame.

Track 2

[1:01:12] So there's that. Victoria, Thomas, you really brought it. You left it all out there.

And I got to say, I'm going to be shocked if Mulaney doesn't make it into the hall one way or another.

He's going to be on the ballot in two categories this time, which is unprecedented here in the hall.

Now, I want to circle back on something Victoria talked about right toward the

end when she mentioned Stefan. And we are going to listen to a Stefan sketch now.

This is Trademark, Hater, and Mulaney.

They play off each other and feed one another so well.

And Stefan, like Victoria mentioned, is beloved at this point.

He's probably a top 10 maybe even top 5 character I forget what the SNN came

up with when they did characters but he's got to be right up there,

so let me not dilly dally any further and let's get to Stefan on Weekend Update.

Track 5

[1:02:26] It's Christmas time in New York which means millions of tourists will be coming

to see what holiday magic the Big Apple has to offer.

Here with some tips on where you and your children should go is our city correspondent, Stefan.

Hi. Hi. Hi, Stefan. It's an exciting time, isn't it? I know,

right? So many Republican candidates. Who do you pick?

Okay, so, Stefan, a lot of families are making their way to Manhattan to have

some holiday fun. Are there any places you can recommend?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. If you're looking to get festive with your family,

I've got the perfect place for you. New York's hottest club is Hay.

Built from the bucket list of a dying pervert, This Battery Park Bitch Parade

is now managed by overweight game show host Fat Sajak.

And this place has everything. Tweakers, skeevy's, spud web, a child.

And a Russian guy who runs on the treadmill in a Cosby sweater.

So come on down this weekend. The bouncer is a bulldog who looks like Wilford

Brimley. And the password is diabetes.

Track 5

[1:03:53] Stefan, that sounds like a very cool place, and I'm sure that,

yeah, I'm sure that people exist who would enjoy hanging out at a place like

that, but since New York has so many holiday, holiday,

holiday sites to see, maybe you can think of something more traditional for

ordinary salt of the earth people to check out. Yes, loud and clear.

If you're ordinary or love salt, I've got just the spot for you.

New York's hottest holiday club is Baaaaaah!

Could you, uh, could you use that in a sentence for me? In a sentence?

Let's go to Because the line is too long at Okay,

that was a sentence, thank you Open and condemned in 1904 The seasonal psych

award is the creation of Hanukkah cartoon character Menorah the Explorer.

Track 5

[1:04:56] And this place has everything Kiwis, Spud Webb.

The Spud Webb, he's doing double duty. Yeah. Cleo Awards, some guy's mom.

Plus a special showing of the African holiday classic, A Fish Called Kwanzaa.

Track 5

[1:05:24] Look who just walked in. It's a lady who works at CVS, but do not bother her, because she is on break.

I don't know if this place captures, captures the holiday spirit.

But all the proceeds go to charity. Oh, which charity?

Flacid Outreach Group, Doctors Without Boners.

Oh, Stefan, I'm, I would never disparage a charity, and I'm sure that Doctors

Without Boners does amazing work. Not really.

No, not really, okay. Okay, but this is not what I was looking for.

I'm trying my best. All right.

You're right, I shouldn't get

mad at you. I just get emotional around the holidays to find, you know.

My family is all back in New Hampshire and I don't get to spend the holidays with them anymore.

I guess I just miss them this time of year. I'm sorry, I never knew you had a family.

I just thought you were built by gay scientists.

Track 5

[1:06:29] You know what? This year I'm gonna get you a Christmas present.

Oh, Stefan, wow, what are you gonna get me? A human boombox.

What's a human boombox? It's that thing of when you carry a over your shoulder

while he sings gangster rap.

That's just what I've always wanted. Happy holidays, Seth Meyers.

Track 2

[1:06:56] I forgot how much I love Bill Hader working with Mulaney.

Stefan is a masterwork in sketch comedy and the games that they play with one

another. So there's that.

Victoria, Franco, I want to thank you so much for joining us this week.

It's been an absolute pleasure. pleasure on behalf

of uh thomas and matt we

thank you so much for making the case for

melanie as a writer in the snl hall of fame next week on the snl hall of fame

podcast we will be joined by rebecca north to discuss my rudolph as she takes

one last kick at the old nomination can that's That's right,

this is her last year to be considered for the SNL Hall of Fame,

or she will be removed from the ballot,

whether she likes it or not.

Track 2

[1:08:04] So, that's what I've got for you this week. I hope you are doing well.

We really appreciate you stopping by.

But if you do me a favor on the way out, as you pass the weekend update exhibit,

Turn out the lights, because the SNL Hall of Fame is now closed.

This week on the program we welcome our friend Deremy Dove into the hallowed halls to discuss the career of funny man Tracy Morgan. Join us won't you?

Transcript:

[0:41] Thank you so much, Doug and Nance. It is fantastic to be here with you all.

And there are quite a few of you. I can see you queued up outside the SNL Hall of Fame.

My name is J.D., and it is just a thrill to be with you here on this lovely Monday.

We have got a fantastic show for you.

But before we go any further, I feel it necessary to tell you to wipe your feet

before coming into the hall. all.

Now, back when I was a wee lad, my mother scolded me once for making a mess

of the floor, and ever since then I feel compelled to tell people to wipe their feet.

There. I've said it. It's finally out in the public, and I feel great.

Thanks for being my therapist by proxy. The check is in the mail.

The SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair fair where each episode we take

a deep dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest,

or writer and add them to the ballot for your consideration.

Once the nominees have been announced, we turn to you, the listener,

to vote for the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined for perpetuity in the hall.

And that's how we play the game. It's just that That simple. You listen.

You vote. We tabulate. We announce.

Track 2

[2:06] Repeat after me. You listen. You vote.

We tabulate. And we announce. Speaking of announcements, our good friend Matt

Ardill is standing around loafing.

It looks like, hey, if you've got time enough to lean, you've got time enough to clean, young man.

Track 3

[2:25] Hey, JD, I saw the new exhibits on the way in. I really like the Norm Macdonald

hat collection that we've got going on.

Turd Ferguson, that Turd Ferguson hat and that big hat. It's funny.

Yeah, you can't go wrong with a funny hat. That's right.

How are you doing? I'm excellent right now. Yeah, I'm pretty good.

What have you got for us this week? I have got an awesome player of Tracy Morgan.

So I'm really looking forward to sharing some facts about him. Well, let's do it.

Great. Well, Tracy's 5'9", born November 10th, 1968.

He has 67 acting credits, five producer credits, and eight writing credits.

Born in Brooklyn and raised in Marlborough Houses and Tompkins Houses in Bedford.

He was actually named after a platoon mate of his father who shipped off with

his dad to Vietnam, but was killed in an action within days of deployment.

Track 3

[3:31] So his dad was very close to this guy, and so that's why he got that name.

Um yeah he went on to

marry his high school sweetheart and began his

comedy career at the age of 17 by performing stand-up

on street corners in new york he had his date

first debut as hustle man

on the television show martin so

he's been working hard since he was a

kid um and it shows i mean

he lists his influences as carol burnett lucille ball

jackie gleason which i actually see the most

in a lot of what he does uh martin lawrence

eddie murphy and richard prior uh but

he learned about that is a great pedigree huh yeah that's a

that's a really good good lineup but yeah the thing

is he he says he learned his comedy first from

his dad who taught him about jonesing which

is basically roasting people he put put him

on his lap and they would roast people on the the street

and he also drew from his uncles who he said were also very funny so you know

it runs in the family um you can actually see his first stand-up gig which is

an apollo theater amateur night on youtube so if you want to go out and see

his first big break it's there for you to find.

Track 3

[4:52] I'm going to have to watch that. Yeah. Yeah. You don't get that.

See that with a lot of comedians. No. Yeah.

He nicknamed all the talk show hosts that he's appeared with.

So David Letterman is D rock.

Jimmy Fallon is Jimbo and Conan O'Brien is C black.

Track 3

[5:08] The line between Tracy Morgan and Tracy Jordan is remarkably thin. That's right.

Yeah. So he has lobster for dinner every day.

He does in fact own sharks. He has, at this point, 15, and he has a backyard tank.

And now, to be fair, he has a very close relationship with his daughter,

who wants to be a marine biologist.

So at least partially he's doing this for her. Oh, it's a shark pony.

Track 3

[5:40] Yeah, it's a shark pony. Yeah, some people get pony ponies.

She got a shark pony. um yeah to

entertain his daughter uh and her friends he turns

his basement into a haunted house and he goes all

out to the point he every halloween

he actually won't go into the basement because he's afraid of

the haunted house that he sets up in his own house um

that's spectacular now he when

drinking he does have a alter ego uh named

chico divine that he describes as the

the coolest dude who would never hurt anybody but chico

did at least piss piss one person off as prince

kicked chico out of his house uh

following a pre-grammy party he got a little out of control um now the thing

is this actually helped turn tracy's life around because he got a dui which

led to a confrontation between himself and his son and from that point on he's been sober.

Track 3

[6:39] Wow. Good for him.

Track 3

[7:09] So it was a real uh great great thing for him to do to honor his dad that is great,

what a tear-jerking end to trivia this week yeah a little bit more serious and and uh,

intense uh trivia but it was one of those things where it's like you know i

was reading it i'm like should i you know leave this out because it's a little

down but it's like it really helps explain explain a lot of his comedy and the

character behind Tracy.

I mean, I've met people who've done shows with him and they say he's like a really sweet dude.

And this is where a lot of this comes from. Awesome.

Well, our friend, Jeremy Dove is here and he is down with Thomas right now.

So let's turn it over to those two.

Track 4

[8:30] All right. Matt Ardill, JD, thank you so much for that.

And I am excited today because we have, first of all, a great guest.

Second of all, really interesting nominee.

Track 4

[8:45] Very different nominee. And I think my guest today and I talking before we hit

record, that's kind of the word that came up was different.

Tracy Morgan is such a different cast member. He has such a different vibe compared

to a lot of people that have been on the show.

So this is going to be a fun one to get into. So to talk all things Tracy Morgan

and SNL, I have with me my guest for today, my friend, a great guest on the

SNL Hall of Fame in the past.

He's been on for Dick Ebersole, Adam McKay, been on a roundtable.

Track 4

[9:21] Great guy, I think, to chat about Tracy Morgan. Deremy Dove.

Deremy, how's it going, man?

Thomas, I'm honored by your kind words, and I'm honored to be here to talk about

someone who is, as you said, just so different in SNL history.

We're going on near 50 years, and it's always you think like, oh, you've seen it all.

But with Tracy Morgan, he is one of one.

He's definitely one of one. With Tracy Morgan, it's a lot about vibes.

So we're going to vibe out today on some Tracy Morgan.

So you're a podcaster, obviously.

So you have the Bigger Than The Game podcast with Jose Ruiz. I'm a fan.

Tell everyone what's been going on over at Bigger Than The Game, man.

Well, we just did our most recent episode was on the 60th anniversary of Sonny

Liston versus Cassius Clay, who later became Muhammad Ali.

And it was just, like, incredible that, like, man, it's been 60 years since

that legendary and epic match.

And it was kind of fun to look at. I know you'll enjoy this, Thomas.

Track 4

[10:29] In the same month, February of 1964, the Beatles went on Ed Sullivan and young

Cassius Clay Muhammad Ali upset Sonny Liston to become heavyweight champion.

Champion and it's like man in that month two things

that really changed not only the decade but the way we

look at pop culture sports everything two

of the biggest figures of the 20th century the Beatles and Muhammad Ali really

emerged all in that same month so it's just really fun to kind of get into just

what this match set up for the rest of the decade and the rest of the 20th century

as far as sports I love it you guys talk sports history but you break it down

you put Put it into that context.

You talk about all the narratives surrounding the sporting event or whatever

topic you're talking about at the time.

You and Jose do such a great deep dive into all the topics that you cover.

So I love it. Thank you. Go check out Bigger Than The Game with Jeremy and Jose.

And I'm told you have another podcast. Why don't you tell everyone about that?

So it's this show called Pop Culture 5.

It's me and this guy. What's his name? I think it's Thomas Senna oh my gosh

that's right we do have a podcast together we have a show I mean who would have thought it so,

that has been just so fun to do the show with you man my friend and.

Track 4

[11:53] We look at anything in music, movies, TV shows, and we're picking five essential things from that.

So if it's TV, it's episodes, music, it could be songs for an actor, a director, movies.

And we're just kind of talking about our five essentials. And depending on who's

the host, if you're the host that week, you get three.

The co-host gets two, but gets veto power.

So it's really like a fun twist on it. And we've gotten nothing but great responses,

and I've just really enjoyed doing the show with you, man.

Yeah, I look forward to it every week, recording episodes.

I love deep diving into our topics at any given week.

So one week, I'm all about Nirvana.

One week, I'm deep diving into Spike Lee movies and Spielberg.

And so it's just been a lot of fun, man. And I think when this Tracy Morgan

episode gets released, we'll be up to 25 episodes around then, something like that.

Yeah. Yeah. So being released because we have some banked. So this has been

– I think we found a really nice groove.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Big credit to you for that, man.

And you too. So everybody go check out my podcast and Deremy's podcast, Pop Culture 5.

Track 4

[13:14] Today, we're here on the SNL Hall of Fame. See, I got to get into SNL Hall of Fame mode.

Yeah. Yeah, I was going to do this introduction like I was on Pop Culture 5,

but we got to get into SNL Hall of Fame mode here.

I know, it's a brain shift. It is a brain shift.

So, today we're talking about Tracy Morgan here on the SNL Hall of Fame.

Tracy joined the cast when he was 27. He auditioned at the same time as Stephen Colbert.

Track 4

[13:38] Stephen Colbert and Tracy Morgan auditioned, and Tracy auditioned with a little

kid character named Biscuit. Have you seen his audition?

I have. I have seen it. Well, can you describe his audition and who Biscuit is?

Because it was a really memorable audition to me. I'll be honest, right?

Track 4

[13:57] It's really weird. For the whole audition, there's certain people,

like when you watch Phil Hartman's and Will Ferrell, and to me,

it's just like, oh, that's a lock.

Track 4

[14:06] That guy has to be on. or even Jimmy Fallon for

Tracy's it was really like I'm like

man like it's not that it's not funny but it's

just so it's just so different and unique and

I'm just like I wonder what they talked about

in the room once he like got done and said

thank you like you know what I mean because like you mentioned Biscuit

and Biscuit was just this I'm probably gonna

struggle to describe but like just this odd character that

he kind of like had I feel like he did it from his stand-up days yeah

it was like a little kid who was this kind

of shy kid but not almost a socially awkward kid

but he would but then the premise was that he was asked to

recite like a christmas poem or something yeah so

it was like he was this shy kid but like he

was awkward but would kind of say these like weird

like i don't know sassy kind of stuff at times like it

was was just really like it was different

it was just so weird for a character to biscuit little

kid named biscuit that's like definitely a tracy morgan touch

on this and so like i mentioned he he and steven colbert were two of the finalists

and i've heard norm mcdonald even say like norm mcdonald was part of the selection

process and he watched the uh all the uh people audition and And he even said,

he's like, I just assumed that Stephen was going to get it.

Track 4

[15:31] Yeah. We saw both of them. And even Norm said, I just thought,

oh, Stephen Colbert is going to be a cast member. Right.

Track 4

[15:38] But I don't know. His audition, Tracy's audition won the show over, Jeremy.

So one, I mean, what do you think?

Track 4

[15:50] It was about Tracy that might have won SNL over.

And two, that's quite the what if between Stephen Colbert and Tracy. Yeah.

Well, number one, I believe Tracy just has raw charisma.

There's some people who they're just naturally funny.

It's like the guys, like the class clown when you're in school or at the lunch table.

Track 4

[16:16] They just are funny. and they can almost like read

the phone book to you and they'll crack you up

and Tracy has that you know a lot of times comedians they're

they're you know it's an art form and it's trained it's timing and

all those things but then there's just some who break through

who it's just something about them they just make you all their mannerisms just

make you laugh and you can't pinpoint one specific thing you're like I like

this guy he just cracks me up and Thomas I don't know this is a hot take for

you or not but when i'm thinking about tracy morgan and getting ready for this episode.

Track 4

[16:52] I think this is lauren michaels most unique

hire and i also think when

it comes to judging how good of a talent evaluator lauren michaels is i go to

tracy morgan as number one yeah because of it's such a unique hire like this

shows me like lauren he thought outside the box when it comes to who who he's bringing on the cast.

No, I don't think that's a hot take. I think I used a different word,

but I think it encapsulates the same thing.

We were probably both thinking along the same lines. I think it's one of Lorne's most inspired hires.

That's a good word. It's a better word. No, it's a different word,

but I think unique's a great word too for it. A unique hire, an inspired hire.

I have to give Lorne and the other producers, I think Steve Higgins was probably,

Obviously, Steve Higgins has been there forever.

He's been there longer than Keenan. That's how long Steve Higgins has been there. Yes, yes.

So I have to think whoever is in charge, Morrissey. Mm-hmm.

Track 4

[17:52] Choosing Tracy Morgan, they could have gone the easy route and chose Stephen

Colbert and, you know, just plugged him in.

But choosing Tracy was just like such a – it was a conscious,

it was a deliberate choice to choose somebody like Tracy.

Yeah, I'm wondering, like, if you look at the cast, like, do you think at the

time that they needed somebody like Tracy, like, to feel some sort of thing to add?

Well, it's interesting because he came in 96, so he's not part of that 95 cast

who saved the show again with Will Ferrell and Sherry O'Terry and everything.

But he's still remembered as part of that group, even though he came a year later.

He's still kind of grouped in with those guys as part of the group that kind of saved the show.

So it's interesting because that's one season kind of removed from the toughest

time Lorne has really had on the show where like the network executives were

kind of breathing down his neck and being like, you got to get the show funnier.

And, you know, you kind of lost. And we've talked about this before.

We kind of understand where they're coming from. That 94, 95 season was not really that good.

So I think he was looking for people to kind of had an original voice.

I think you hear Lawrence say that a lot when he's doing those interviews.

I think he wanted people who were original and kind of got back to.

Track 4

[19:21] Snl really is and i think he wanted someone to

tracy's credit who people like to

work with and was easy to work with too and i

think that's also a big thing that people don't talk about for tracy

i'm glad you mentioned about the show's original

vibe and hearken back to that because there's an element of tracy that i think

is part of the spirit of the original snl and that's almost that danger aspect

yes yes like that unpredictability and that's that's a good thing and tracy

could be unpredictable but in like a controlled way he's still a professional,

he's still you know it's not like he sabotaged sketches or

did anything like that tracy was a professional but he had this aura vibe about

him that was uh dangerous or unpredictable i think that did harken back to the

original time then that was something to me they probably wanted to shy away

from that in season 21 because they had just come off of sandler and farley and they were.

Track 4

[20:18] Dangerous quote-unquote and unpredictable but it got to be

a disruption on the show i think right i think

they maybe consciously didn't hire somebody like that for the immediate season

following sandler and farley and those guys but maybe they re-evaluated and

like let's get somebody who can add that danger that unpredictability i mean

is there something to Am I just being a weird SNL fan? No, no. I think there is.

It was that tamed. Like you said, it's a controlled danger.

It wasn't someone that, oh, he's off the rails and is not willing to work.

And I think also he brought a confidence, too, where just from Tracy's background,

his upbringing, you know, doing stand-up, I think, as well.

Like there's a difference between being an improv actor and being a stand-up

comic. and I think Tracy just kind of did...

Track 4

[21:11] Not to say he's in this person's ballpark overall as far as SNL,

but one thing about Eddie Murphy,

when he was a part of that cast that replaced the original people from the first

five years, a lot of those guys, and I understand, rightfully so,

they're replacing the epic first five years. They were scared.

They were nervous, all this pressure, the presses on them, and everyone always

said Eddie just had a confidence where he didn't care.

He's like, I know I'm good. I'm doing it. And I'm not saying Tracy's Eddie Murphy,

but Tracy kind of always gives a confidence of, I know who I am.

I don't care what you think. I'm here. I'm ready to go.

And I think that's what Tracy kind of really brought. I feel like Lorne and

the others kind of saw in him.

He wouldn't be scared of the moment. No, I definitely agree.

And Tracy was confident in the material. He's like, I know this is funny.

I know my inflection's funny. I just know what's funny about this.

And so I'm going to get on screen and show you. So that, yeah,

that's such a good point.

And I think another element, especially around this time, 96,

when Tracy got hired, that fascinates me.

It's hard to think about Tracy getting cast around this time,

to me, without thinking about SNL's history, somewhat tenuous history with black cast members.

Track 4

[22:26] So I'm wondering, Jeremy, like, can you talk about the show's history with black

cast members, like up until that point, and even like on?

On yeah yeah it's always it's been

something um i remember when i

first saw tracy do stand-up comedy was after he

had left snl but people in the crowd were

yelling out like you know brian fellows and everything and he

made the joke that honestly my whole life i heard which is like black people

don't watch snl except for when eddie murphy was on there right in my whole

life people my own family a lot of said i felt weird because me and my brother

liked it but they were like oh

we don't watch that except for when Eddie Murphy was on and it was always,

you saw what happened in the original cast with Garrett Morris and how,

you know, he really was neglected and just kind of stereotyped and.

Track 4

[23:15] Made to just either wear drag or just play this token black.

And I think Eddie Murphy, he talked about his struggles and he had those battles

too, but he was such a star and the show had no stars.

So he kind of really emerged and became that guy.

But then you see Damon Wayans came and he had struggles and just frustrations

of being that only black voice.

Track 4

[23:40] And you're seeing a room filled with white people who don't understand you.

Not willing to really understand you because

they're going to go to this performer who they either know

or feel like will get their work over better they're not

sitting down trying to understand your comedic sensibility understand

your background and you know you saw that from damon

it went to you know chris rock had the same battles and he

really struggled there where everyone here knows chris

rock and legendary stand-up comic but if he

wasn't who he became came after SNL no one really

remembers what Chris Rock did in that time and that's

a glorious time those early 90s of SNL so

really you look at from Eddie Murphy by the

time Tracy comes on there you know Tim Meadows was on

but he you know did his roles and

stuff like that but didn't really like stripe it and I feel like

now he gets a little more appreciation for

his time on SNL but I feel like he was kind of like an underrated he

could do a lot of things but minus like

you know the oj when the oj trial happened

i feel like that kind of helped him out and then the ladies man a little bit

but never really got that shining star treatment that i think tim meadows should

have gotten too so i think tracy is really an interesting um i guess like a

marker for blacks being on the show where.

Track 4

[25:05] He still battled it too, and I know we'll talk about that, but he kind of really

set the stage to me for Kenan, for Leslie Jones, Jay Pharoah.

He was that guy to kind of really set the stage for seeing SNL starting to improve

on that relationship with Black cast members.

Oh, that's really great perspective and well put. And even though we're all

SNL fans, love the show, I wouldn't be doing an SNL podcast if I didn't love the show.

But there's also in the show's 49-year history stuff that they need to reckon with.

You know, this is their treatment of women, their treatment of black cast members,

maybe not enough representation.

Yeah. Even like as a Latino myself, I always kind of look like about Latino

representation as well.

I mean, that's just the reality of it and something that I know.

You know, SNL, about when Leslie got hired, that's something that they made

a conscious effort to get a black woman onto the show.

And that was almost spearheaded by Kenan, telling them, you know what,

look, you need to hire a black woman.

Track 4

[26:16] Plenty of qualified black women to do a lot of these roles. You need to get one on the gas.

No. Oh, and I think it was shown in the conversations. Like,

you look at it when In Living Color came out in the early 90s and just like,

okay, then what are we saying here?

Like, there's this show on Fox that's reaching this other demographic.

And then people are kind of, like, I think kind of trying to say,

like, oh, there's not that whole excuse of, well, there's no one to bring on.

And it's like, that was a lie. You saw from the Weyans to all these different people.

You know, it's funny that Damon Wayans, this great comedic talent,

was on Saturday Night Live and was just misused and then becomes an all-time

sketch performer on In Living Color, you know, four years later.

Like, what's that say to you? Exactly. He was so frustrated on SNL that he sabotaged a sketch. Yeah.

The Monopoly Man sketch with John Lovitz. Like, Damon just sort of sabotaged it and he wanted out.

Right. Right, and Chris Rock leaves SNL to go to In Living Color because he's

like, hey, that's where my voice will be heard.

Now, he picked bad timing because it was the way in –.

Track 4

[27:26] They left One Living Color, so his timing was off. But the decision to me was

correct, where it's like, yeah, who's going to get your voice heard and understood?

It's like, not Saturday Night Live. And Chris Rock has said there were so many

great comedic minds from Jim

Downey, Al Franken, Lorne, and great cast members, great friends of his.

But still, he wasn't being represented and wasn't being heard there.

Yeah, I think it's an important discussion. and that's why

I think Tracy's one of the many reasons why Tracy's such an

interesting figure to me as far as Tracy goes Jeremy like

how did you get introduced to him how are you like most familiar with

Tracy was it SNL you see you mentioned his stand-up yeah so he was someone I

being you know I know you are too big fan of stand-up comedy you I would see

him on different things and different tapes and stuff like that but honestly

it was Saturday Night Live where it It was like, I was like, oh, that dude.

I saw him on like the Apollo doing stand-up and everything.

Back when the, you know, Steve Harvey used to host the Apollo and it would air Saturday nights.

And I remember seeing Tracy Morgan. And then when I saw him on Saturday Night

Live, I was like, oh, that guy.

Because like this mid-90s era is when I really started watching SNL live.

Track 4

[28:40] I would watch the reruns before, but like watching it live was kind of like around 93, 94.

So I was really kind of getting into my SNL

like fandom you know the year before and then when

Tracy arrived so it was kind of cool to see and of

course as a black man when you saw like that other oh they brought on a black

cast member male or female you kind of like oh okay let's see what how they

do and Tracy Tracy in his own way shined through yeah yeah that's awesome so

So we mentioned he started in 96 at SNL was on the show until 2003.

What's a we'll dive into it. What's the character sketch that kind of first

sticks out to you during Tracy's time?

Track 4

[29:25] It's one that I kind of, I'll be honest, I didn't really like at first,

and a lot of people, like, disagreed with me, like friends, but Brian Fellows is funny.

Like, I will give Brian Fellows, and I kind of thought it was,

like, overdone and stuff like that, but as I look back on it,

and I'm like, you know what, that is, it's classic Tracy.

And just the way he does that and just him being this Safari,

Brian Fellows, Safari planet and this animal enthusiast, but doesn't have any

idea about any of the animals and always kind of got freaked out by him.

And it is really, he's playing Brian Fellows, but in all honesty,

it's just different forms of Tracy in all these sketches.

That's really funny to me. Our first guest is like a human cactus.

Please welcome our porcupine.

Track 4

[30:16] Ooh, and who are you? I'm Dale Dudley from the Texas Wildlife Sanctuary in Austin. Hello, Austin.

Track 4

[30:26] No, I'm from the Wildlife Sanctuary in Austin. My name is Dale Dudley. I'm Brian Fellow.

Hello, Brian. I want you to meet my porcupine friend. His name is Willie.

That rat needs a haircut.

So that one and then the classic Christmas band member. I thought, yeah, I loved that.

I loved it when it happened. I remember watching it live and loving it.

And I still love it to this day when they kind of all got back together like

a few years ago to do it. I always loved that.

And I love Tracy in it. And just his facial expression always cracked me up.

Those are just a couple of the memorable sketches or in moments with Tracy that

I have. I'm glad you brought up Brian Fellow's safari plan at first,

and not just because I think this was the most times that he did a character.

I think he did it nine times on SNL, so I think that was his most recurring character.

But it just, to me, the story behind this just totally encapsulates Tracy's time at SNL and why...

Track 4

[31:29] He's successful, I think, in a major way.

So Norm MacDonald, again, Norm, said that this came about because he and Robert

Smigel wrote the Brian Fellows sketch as kind of a rib on Tracy because of the

way Tracy would pronounce his S's.

Like they wanted to mess with Tracy at the table read and give him something

hard to read because of how he pronounced stuff.

And as far as i

know they did like tracy like norman smigel i

don't know like as far as i know yeah yeah smigel saying

anything bad about tracy so i guess it

was all in good fun but i love this because

tracy took something that was supposed to be a joke

on him and turned it into something that was his own and

super memorable like he's he he basically was

like yeah screw this like in his own little way like

this is supposed to be a rib on me but the joke's on

you because i'm going to make this like a really successful sketch and a character

so that's a big reason why like to me that almost encapsulates big reason why

tracy's just successful just in general right he just keeps on yeah and and

you hit on a couple things here which is like,

you know rip norm and you know smigel is a great great all-time writer but just

like Like, how messed up that is.

Track 4

[32:53] And, like, that's a small example of that cultural difference where,

like, that wouldn't happen to him on In Living Color.

You know what I mean? Or, like, whatever that day's Key and Peele or Chappelle

show, that wouldn't have happened to him.

Right. He would have had writers in there who understood, who knew him,

like, know his background.

They can relate to him. They kind of, like, did it as a spoof.

And to your point, Tracy took it. And I think that's what makes Tracy great

is there's just a confidence about him and a no fear kind of mentality.

Like because he has that background and I think like, hey, I was out here,

you know, selling different items in front of Yankee Stadium a few years ago,

you know, just trying to make, you know, $30.

So I'm on NBC on Saturday Night Live. What do I have to lose?

So he has that kind of fear that was like, all right, you want to like mock it?

Fine, let's go. Oh, and he takes it and makes it his most memorable character. Yeah, absolutely.

Track 4

[33:53] And the sketch itself, his delivery is so great.

I think the just genius part about it is Tracy does these characters and he

has this delivery to where it seems like it's an accident.

It seems like he's not putting a lot into it, but it's by design.

A lot of his inflection, his timing, him being amped up Tracy Morgan,

it's by design because he knows that that's going to get the laughs.

He knows how to pull laughs from people. Like Brian Fellowes.

Track 4

[34:26] Just how he pauses or how somebody will say their name on the show and then

how he'll pause and say, he'll say, well, I'm Brian Fellow.

Track 4

[34:35] Tracy knows that that pause and then his kind of shoulder shake,

the delivery is going to pull the laugh.

So it seems like he makes it look so easy and natural, but it's just by design

because Tracy has that comedic mind.

I always was entertained by the Brian Fellow Safari planet because of that.

No, and to me, like you said, it was by design. It's just that inflection.

But what he did, which I feel like Chris Rock didn't do, and I think a lot of

the people who were stand-ups on the show before him didn't do,

is when you're not an improv person who knows how to do that,

like working with others and different characters and acting,

a lot of times they say if you're on SNL as a stand-up, it's best to be on a

weekend update or have a solo thing where you're on a show.

You're looking in camera and kind of doing your own thing, almost like you're

doing standup and Chris rock didn't really figure that out. Right.

But I think Tracy, when you have like, you know, he would have a guest on, but from Brian fellows,

astronaut Jones, different things, he kind of found his lane and kind of poked

and reconstructed like improv and sketch by doing this, these individual characters

that really highlighted his sensibility.

Yeah. And with astronaut Jones again, like he made it look like,

Oh, oh, that's just Tracy playing himself.

Track 4

[35:57] But he just knew his delivery. Maybe there's danger.

He knew how to tap into just how to say something.

That one in particular, Ashton Jones, is almost like anti-comedy in a way.

There's a big old theme song.

Track 4

[36:38] The sketch itself is anticlimactic. Oh, yeah.

But that's like a lot of anti-comedy. And then Tracy just has to do like just a few little things.

I'm just, the Britney Spears astronaut Jones is the one that I always went back to.

My name is Craig Ellera. I'm the queen of Orpheoleans. A proud and peace-loving

race. My people have been awaiting your arrival for some time now.

We're in desperate need of your help. The Galaxians have besieged our cities

and plundered our riches. What?

Say what? Right. Dig. Uh-huh. Right.

Well, why don't you drop out of that green jumpsuit and show me that fat ass?

Track 4

[37:25] It's like a one-joke thing, but it's like anti-comedy in a way, but that's just like,

you brought up such a good point, Jeremy, me earlier about

tracy's just a different funny person

he's like that got the your friend at the lunch table your

friend who just makes you you should read the phone book and crack

you up and things like astronaut jones are

like a perfect example to me no for sure actually

and you you nailed it on what makes that you know that because i remember

that britney spears and it was almost what was funny

was just a dichotomy of having britney and tracy together

and it's like the odd couple effect was

like that cracked you up just being like britney spears

and tracy morgan like having even though like it's scripted and

stuff but like having a conversation it just was odd but like it

was that alone made you laugh but i remember um i think it was season 25 and

jamie fox was the host and it was a time where uh it was like you know in between

we're like you know jamie's walking and tracy's like oh what's up jamie what's

up man he goes i'm glad we got some some brothers on the show,

and Jamie's like, oh, yeah, yeah.

Because Tracy's like, yo, these writers don't understand me.

They don't get me or that dude with the white hair.

And Jamie's like, you mean Lorne Michaels?

Track 4

[38:38] He's like, I don't know, whatever. He's like, he's your boss.

He's like, yeah, he's just always saying weird stuff and doing weird things.

And he's like, I'm going to be on the show a lot this week with you here,

and we're going to take over. Revolution will be televised.

And Jamie's like, yeah, you know, he kind of looks all quiet,

like he's sneaking something.

He's like, you're right, man, we're going to take over. I got mad lines,

man, and this week I'm blowing up the spot.

That's what I'm saying. All right, come on, let's go. We're in the middle of

a show. Okay? Yeah, yeah, all right.

Jamie? Give me a soda, bitch!

Track 4

[39:16] Okay all right but it was one of

my favorite tracy morgan moments because he just just that

line get me a soda like he just nailed

it bitch yeah yeah bitch and lauren just goes okay

like i'm like that was great that was like that dangerous

aspect of tracy i always love like

he's he's like one of the only ones that could pull that off

convincingly quite honestly we're in

season 49 and i think the current cast is

missing someone like that for sure if they try

to do a backstage and like i wouldn't andrews music is my

favorite cast member currently i don't think he

could pull that off convincingly james austin johnson i

don't think keenan can it's not in keenan's nature necessarily

to like pull that off convincingly they don't have

someone currently like tracy morgan that

adds that kind of unpredictability danger this

backstage stage stuff with lauren that he did he because he did that a few

times the garth brooks one was another yes funny one

to me when he was talking to garth brooks and he was like man

that chris gaines i don't know like uh you're doing

a great job garth but like what's up with that chris gaines guy and whatever

and then lauren comes to talks to tracy and and he's like hey tracy you know

and then tracy's like no i know i know i know garth is chris gaines i know that

so it's almost like yeah yeah like a turnabout like he's just telling lauren

like i know that you like you got to give Give me some credit.

Track 4

[40:37] And then I don't know if it was this one or another one where all he has to

do is look at Lauren and Lauren goes, orange soda, right? Yeah.

Track 4

[40:47] So credit to Lauren for playing along. But Tracy's the only one or one of the

few, I think, over the last 25 years or so that could pull something off like

that convincingly. And I think you're right.

And it's not a knock on cast members past or present. you said Kenan's great

that's just not who he is and the people who were on with Tracy that's not who they were like.

Track 4

[41:13] You can't find like you can't teach that what tracy

had like just like it just comes from

it's part natural part upbringing in

your experiences but like i i always

think about something um jim brewer

told a story uh i forget what radio

show he was on but he talks about you know

him and tracy kind of were high around the same time and it

was the week that you know tragically like when farley came

and hosted and how he was just not in not in

good good shape and uh marcy

he said marcy went to because he was not doing

well during the week and not showing up and was not all there

so he was trying to hang out with

like different people in the cast and jim brewer's like me and

tracy weren't doing that but then like marcy and

people were looking at those to and kind of put

it on them like oh you two must be getting chris into trouble

and so they said marcy went into

like the office talked to jim and tracy and was

like you two need to stay away from chris so do

all these things and like leave him alone and jim brewer

was like you know i'm new so i got nervous and scared and

he said credit to tracy he said tracy stood up

and said i'm a grown man with children's you can't talk to

me that way i got children's you ain't gonna talk to

me like that and he was like but credit to him he's like

he's i didn't do nothing i'm a grown man with children's and

i'm like yeah and jim brewer said and

i'm like right like he was like no new or not you're not going to come in and.

Track 4

[42:43] Accuse me something i didn't do and disrespect me i'm gonna stick up for myself.

Track 4

[42:46] And jim brewer's like he got courage from seeing tracy to be like yeah we didn't

do anything we didn't take chris out we're not the bad influences here don't

yell at us but that But Tracy was new,

and him doing that to Marcy, who's a high-up person,

that shows the kind of courage he came in with.

Well, yeah, that's that thing where you were right.

You alluded to, I mean, he was selling things outside of Yankee Stadium just

a few years back, and now he's on SNL. He made it.

Track 4

[43:18] He's making that salary. That's why he said during a...

When he was going to his audition, he was confident because he was like,

I shouldn't even be here.

The fact that I'm in this last audition, I got nothing to lose.

I'm going to go in here and just show my stuff and just be confident.

That's just how he carried himself. He's almost like, I shouldn't be here.

I already won. The fact that I'm in this room, I already won,

so I'm not going to compromise myself and stand down to Marcy Klein or something like when she comes in.

Track 4

[43:52] And tries to yell at us for something that we didn't do, especially.

That just speaks a lot to how Tracy even got to the show. Right.

No, for sure. For sure. It just kind of shows, especially by the time you get

to the 90s and on, even before then, but that is the goal of so many improv actors.

Whether you're at Second City or the Groundlings or whatever,

is to make it to Saturday Night Live.

That's the goal. So then, of course, no matter how talented you are,

if you're on that level and trying to get to SNL, if you get there,

you're going to be, especially early on, nervous.

And I'm not knocking anyone, but scared because this was your dream.

This is the big time SNL. I can make it here.

I can maybe be a movie star or a TV star from here.

So then you're trying to kiss up to the writers and the big time producers.

Juicers i think it was an advantage for a guy like tracy

morgan you know same like it was for eddie back in the

early 80s that wasn't his they were stand up like

that wasn't their goal and it was just like all right like we know what it's

like to be in front of this crowd on our own and having to make someone laugh

and when i come here like i'm not intimidated by this stage i made it the fact

that i'm already here i made it here let's go what's the worst that could happen to me Yeah,

that speaks to why we're even talking about him right now and why he...

Track 4

[45:18] Resonates as such a fan favorite because it's

his personality it's kind of the vibe that that

Tracy gives off that that compel people

to watch that draw people to him and it comes through in the sketches and his

and his work on SNL for sure like I have a bunch of example I don't know if

you remember this one it's toward the end if it's like his second to last season

and he and Rachel Dratch had a it was a one-off thing it was a talking to the

stars with Rachel and Tracy and they were talking to Jon Stewart.

All right, well, hosting an awards show of that caliber must be quite stressful.

Y'all like to get high, right?

Track 4

[45:59] Uh, no, no, I don't. What? Get real, Dratch.

I've been backstage at those awards shows, man. The Source Awards was like Weed City, bruh.

Come on, tell me. Y'all like to get lifted, right? Uh, lifted.

Lifted um i find if tracy says a

word that i don't know it usually means hi oh okay and

this showed like that loose loose canon element of

tracy and just like how tracy might

be if you're just hanging out with him and the bit was like that

rachel dratch is taking the interview with john store.

Track 4

[46:32] Very seriously she has her cards and she's

asking him questions and tracy's just being tracy he's

just goofing around he's ribbing dratch he's asking john

store inappropriate questions ends and that's just

like the vibe like that that one uh that

sketch with with rachel dratch like that perfectly encapsulates

just that whole vibe to me darren like

like there's a reason like i heard you kind of break

into a tracy morgan voice like there's a

reason why people want to like imitate tracy so

i'm gonna take you outside and get you pregnant like people

just want to get you you pregnant doodoo pampas

yeah jay moore does a great there's a great oh yeah

but uh there's a reason why people

just want to imitate him and love him and want to

imitate his mannerisms and the way he you know because he

just gives off that like vibe yeah there's

something that he has that is rare that

sometimes it's more valuable than if you're the most polished or

the best the best writer or the best you know setup

guy and you you can see it with certain people

and you know pop culture even like in politics there's

certain people who have they just have a likability that comes through the screen

and people just you like no matter what they might even portray the worst characters

that are you know they're delivering bad news but you know what people just

really like this person and i think tracy even in that sketch with rachel dratch.

Track 4

[48:00] You just like Tracy Morgan. I think a lot of us fans just always liked him and

gravitated toward him, which is why then and now, for those years,

for that era, you hear Will Ferrell, Sherry O'Terry,

Molly Shannon, but you're going to hear Tracy Morgan being mentioned too.

To me, not just because of what he's done post-SNL, just talking about that

era SNL, for as he wasn't someone who was always used, I think it's incredible

that we still talk about that era in the show's history,

and one of the first names we're going to talk about is Tracy Morgan.

Track 4

[48:35] Yeah, yeah, right. That's why this is probably a different feeling episode,

even for the SNL Hall of Fame, which is fitting to me with Tracy Morgan.

He was just a different feeling kind of cast member, just a different dude that we all love.

You had mentioned his stand-up, and I've seen a little bit of it.

How would you describe his stand-up comedy? but

he raw and all over the place i've

seen him twice and i'll be honest the first time was

at i was at temple university um and

he was about an hour and a half late and he

came out and he seemed unprepared he

had some funny lines just because tracy's funny

but he seemed unprepared and it was kind of like underwhelming

i'll be honest okay i went a couple years later and

saw him new york in New York at a comedy club and he

seemed much he was still that like we talked about

that raw like danger feel but like

he was more prepared he was on time and he was a lot better as a stand-up comedy

so he it's almost in a way what he brings to SNL he still brings to stand-up

which is I would never say Tracy's like number one stand-up of all time but

I would tell anyone like would Would you like,

should I buy a ticket to see Tracy Morgan do state? I would say,

yeah, because you're going to laugh.

Track 4

[49:56] You're going to have a good time because of all the things we're talking about.

He's just charisma, that sense of danger. You don't know what he's going to say.

He doesn't care. He's not afraid of being canceled or not afraid of like someone

from the crowd may shout something.

Track 4

[50:10] He's not like worried about that. He's going to fire right back or go along with it.

You're going to be entertained and you're going to end up liking him.

If you don't know him or you're not sure, you're going to like Tracy.

So it's that same kind of vibe.

Same vibe. So there's a sense of danger when he does stand-up.

But maybe it's a little more chaotic because he doesn't have Lauren or Steve

Higgins or Marcy Klein or the censors on him.

But similar vibes. Yeah, that's how I felt with some of the stand-up that I've

seen just on YouTube or going back and watching some of bits and pieces of his

specials or whatever. Yeah.

Uh just some quick hitters too from SNL like probably some stuff that a lot

of people would remember Dominican Lou.

I love to watch the movies the Sling Blade, the Eddie Maguire and the English Pages.

It's a good movie a lot of people they enjoy this movie they love to see it

they love to see the Tom Cruise it's very good for them they like it.

Track 4

[51:18] What was your favorite part of the movie i don't know

i didn't see it i have no

time i'm working all the time you know but i

hear it's a good movie it's a good movie people in the building they're talking

about it a lot they love the movie they like to see the movie all the time they're

talking about it oh hell yeah he did three times i love dominican lou because

it was like Like, Dominican Lou was this, it was a perfect,

like, it's a very specific archetype of a person.

It's the person who wants to be part of the conversation, but they haven't really,

like, lived it themselves.

So, Dominican Lou's always like, yeah, like, this thing was good.

I hear everybody talking about it. So, he's not really giving his opinion.

He's saying that, like, I heard people in the building talk about it.

So, it's like this person who really wants to be part of the conversation.

They want to be clued in. but they don't have like the firsthand experience

themselves so they only have a certain amount of,

like i said firsthand experience to go off of so he's always like living vicariously

through others yeah and he's fine with it yeah you know what you just said something

that and maybe i don't know how people will react to this but.

Track 4

[52:31] When it comes to, like, you look at, like, the legacy of a Dan Aykroyd,

one of the things people talk about is the everyday, everyman characters that

he brought to, you know, sketch comedy and Saturday Night Live.

That, like, blue-collar guy that everyone knows, but you didn't really see on,

you know, sketch and on TV yet, like, being portrayed that way.

And I'm wondering, I feel like Tracy Morgan, even though he has some outrageous

characters, some of his characters kind of—he kind of brought that, too, where—.

Track 4

[53:01] But not like his main one, not like Brian Fellows or anything,

but like Dominican Lou and some other ones like that, where it's like, you know that guy.

Yeah. You know that guy, and it was the kind of representation you weren't really

seeing on Saturday Night Live before.

I think you're absolutely right. I see a little bit of that,

too, in his Woodrow character.

Yes. Obviously, it's like a heightened kind of thing, but I mean,

you've come across someone like that.

Mm-hmm. And I can see that. And the commonality, too, is like there's some heart

underneath there, too, because somebody like Woodrow, even Brian Fellows,

like I root for him. Yeah. He's likable.

And we had brought up Britney Spears with the Astronaut Jones,

but it was like Britney Spears and Woodrow had had she did a Woodrow sketch

with him and they went they were hanging out in the sewer and having a little conversation.

And there's something about how tracy portrayed woodrow

who's this uh he's a homeless gentleman yeah

an eccentric homeless gentleman who told britney spears that uh that he has

the the post office box down there because the because that's where they were

having keeping secrets on him so he stole it and put it down in the sewer so

he says kind of goofy stuff like that but But there's a lot of human quality.

There's a lot of humanity in a character like that. I think it's easy for Tracy

to bring that humanity, I think, too.

Track 4

[54:31] And I kind of wonder, because you mentioned... I know that episode,

and I remember all the sketches.

Those were two different episodes, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

okay, they're two different ones. I'm wondering, do you think...

Track 4

[54:45] Britney Spears kind of requested to be with Tracy in some sketches, you think?

Or something because it's like, Britney Spears, I mean, people still,

I think, know how big she is.

But at that point, she's like, you can make a case like the hottest star out

there is Britney Spears.

It's not Will Ferrell in these weird ones. It's Tracy Morgan doing these things.

So I'm just like, I wonder if Britney was a fan or it could have been the writers

just thinking that's an odd couple pairing.

But it's interesting. now that's a good thought so she did the

woodrow one with him in season 25 at the end of season 25

and she came back in season 27 that's where they did the astronaut jones and

if you watch re-watch the astronaut jones sketch at the end when he says his

like famous when he says his famous line as astronaut jones oh why don't you

drop out of that green jumpsuit and show me that fat ass.

Track 4

[55:38] When he says that you could see britney laugh

and i don't know or she's like smiled and i don't know if

that was supposed to happen like the character because if

she was supposed to be this robotic alien but when tracy

says that you see britney crack a smile at the end and then they go to the theme

to the ending credits for the sketch i kind of do think that britney likes tracy

and enjoyed and enjoyed working working with him that's like that's a good thought

man that's It's something that's a good thing to pick up.

Yeah, I was just like, because it's just not, for all the people who were on

SNL at the time, it's like you could have put a lot of people with Britney Spears,

but it's very memorable. So, yeah, I was just wondering, yeah.

Yeah, no, I love that. One of my other favorite ones, one of my last favorite

ones is Uncle Jemima's Pure Mash Liquor. Yes, yes.

Classic. I love the concept of Aunt Jemima's husband having his own product.

And he even says in the commercial, like, they asked me, like,

why mash liquor? And he's like, well, sell what you know.

And I know, like, so Tracy's whole delivery of this sketch was just so great

to hear me. Oh, it was classic.

Track 4

[56:46] Now she says that selling booze is degrading to our people.

I always say that black folk ain't exactly swelling up with pride on account

of you flipping Framjack.

Ain't I right, Sammy? Listen, don't get me in this mess. Then she say,

but why booze? I said, sell what you know.

And I know about booze.

Uncle Jemima's Pure Man Snicker has a 95% alcohol content, and that's per volume.

Track 4

[57:15] What the hell does that mean? That means you get up for less money.

And that might be my low-key favorite one.

Track 4

[57:26] Great like you said like just who would

have thought about that like to like you know everyone and jemima

and how controversial and jemima can be looked on and for him to kind of go

in there and do like her husband and kind of doing that like you know i get

no respect and i gotta sell something to here and don't forget about me feel

it was just classic tracy morgan i'm like that's it's a genius character honestly

yeah it's great they only did it one time i would have led to see Uncle Jemima pop up,

even more and he has those cartoon birds around him and

he's swatting at them and then at the end Tim Meadows calls it

out he's like what are you swatting at he asked him that's hilarious I forgot

yep that's so good yeah that's so good that's from season 25 Uncle Jemima's

Pure Mash Liquor yeah that was awesome is there anything else like well I think

this was after his tenure but,

you know everyone I know is excited for the,

the big SNL 50th celebration and, you know, how epic the S the 40th was,

but Tracy had had that accident that, you know, his friend tragically passed away.

And a lot of people thought Tracy, you know, weren't sure if he was going to survive that accident.

And Tracy was absent from SNL 40.

And I know Alec Baldwin and Tina Fey gave, he had a special little segment where

they gave shout out to him. And I thought how even in the moment then and even more like now I.

Track 4

[58:53] How big that was that a lot of times, you know, it's sad, but that those kind

of things go to like the cast members or people who have passed away.

And Tracy wasn't hadn't passed. He was, you know, just injured.

Track 4

[59:04] But like he had that kind of lore and Alec Baldwin, you know,

did a great impression of him, too.

And that part, you know, was dead on. Actually, I was really good by Alec Baldwin.

But in that moment, it kind of hit me like, yeah, that was somebody who was

so missing from that celebration.

Inspiration and I'm like yeah I wish Tracy Tracy would

have been so good in that sketch or in that thing

like oh but awesome but just also like the

impact that Tracy made that for at that point 40 years of SNL history and he

had that own his own little segment where people were talking about like hey

Tracy's missed that that was huge to me and that kind of showed me where his

legacy is at Yeah, people loved him.

Of course, Alec and Tina doing that, Tracy being on 30 Rock,

which was his main thing that he was known for after SNL, playing Tracy Jordan on 30 Rock.

So definitely playing himself, like a heightened version.

Again, a lot of this is all heightened versions of this likable Tracy Morgan

that we all love. But yeah, so he was great, great, great in 30 Rock.

Track 4

[1:00:15] You had mentioned the accident. Like he didn't make a public appearance for a year after that crash.

And he actually came back and hosted for a second time in October of 2015.

So after that, that was a really special moment. That was so emotional.

That standing ovation he got when he came out.

Track 4

[1:00:34] Then and now, I got emotional. like because every and I think he was in a weird

spot where he was hurt but he kind of got to see.

Track 4

[1:00:45] In a weird way, he was getting eulogized a lot because no one really knew how

he was and will he come back? Is he going to be okay?

So then I think that was just huge to see the impact he made in SNL and in pop

culture where everyone was talking about him and all the different people coming

to go see him and visit him.

It was just kind of like, wow. And then to see him come back to 30 Rock and

be able to host it and then the way that crowd gave him a standing ovation and

the love that you could feel through the screen that he felt.

It was, to me, one of the great emotional moments in SNL history.

Oh, yeah. Talk about memorable emotional moments like that one.

Track 4

[1:01:25] Sandler singing the Chris Farley song. Absolutely. There's like a handful of moments like that.

And I got chills when Tracy came out and got that ovation. I'm getting chills now.

Yeah. Just thinking about that. So I hope Tracy has a prominent role in SNL 50.

I hope so too. And I think like you almost have to with someone like that.

Like you just kind of, he's going to get at least one sketch or one kind of

moment, but like you got to really highlight trait.

He's just too good, too lovable, too charismatic to, to not use.

Like it's just, you got to have it, especially because he couldn't make it for

the exactly, Exactly. Exactly. Like make up for that for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

So what would you, if you had to kind of like sum it up for everybody and everything,

like what, what is Tracy's legacy on SNL, his place in SNL history?

Yeah. I think to me, he's a surefire hall of famer.

And it's because to me, he's, if you look at unicorns in the near,

you know, going on 50 year history of the show, uh.

Track 4

[1:02:35] I would call him maybe number one, but to me, if you want to go a little bit

expanded, if you're not sure he's number one, he's on the Mount Rushmore of

greatest just unicorns in the history of this show, meaning like he's just one of one.

You can't replicate Tracy you're not going to see someone come after and be

like oh he's a Tracy Morgan type it's like Tracy is that guy he's a part of even though he came in 96,

to me part of an era of SNL that brought it back to its roots that really helped

the show was kind of falling off the rails in the mid 90's he is a part and

I think a big part of helping to bring the show back and the show to have a

great run in the late 90's into the the 2000s,

you know, we think of Will Ferrell and different people like that and Tina Fey

coming on the writing staff and all that.

Tracy Morgan is one of those names. I think anytime for me as a guy who loves

SNL and SNL history, we look at legacy.

If you were a part of helping to save the show, quote unquote.

Track 4

[1:03:36] You always go up a few notches in my boat.

And also just what he did, you know as far

as being a trailblazer and we

know like what eddie murphy and how he striped it and

he's a top five cast member of all time but

there was a huge gap a huge void and they wanted damon to fill that void and

for a lot of reasons he couldn't they wanted chris rock to do it and he couldn't

and i'm not saying that tracy morgan was eddie murphy but he was that first

in my opinion even more than Tim Meadows, and I love Tim Meadows,

but that first, you know, black cast member, that male, to really kind of stripe

and stand out, and I really feel he was a good link and a good influence for

Kenan, for Jay Pharoah, for Leslie Jones,

for this wave of black male and female cast members you see in the 2000s and

the 2010s and the 2020s who are coming on,

and really, And I can honestly say from my time growing up where it was hard

to find any black people who liked SNL besides saying, I watched when Eddie

Murphy was on, to now that's totally different.

And I know a lot of black people who like SNL.

Track 4

[1:04:47] I think maybe not the only reason, but a big part of that is because of what

Tracy Morgan laid down that foundation and set the table for those to come after him.

Track 2

[1:05:13] So there's that really interesting take there toward the end that Jeremy brought

to the table with his unique lived experience.

I wouldn't have even considered that. I wouldn't have even thought about that.

But that makes a tremendous amount of sense to me.

Thank you so much, Jeremy, for bringing that to light.

And Thomas, another fantastic conversation.

Track 2

[1:05:42] You can listen to more of Deremy and Thomas on their podcast called Pop Culture 5.

It's available on Dover Podcasts and such. You can find it anywhere you find fine podcasts.

And I highly recommend it. Their last episode they released was WrestleMania matches.

So it's very timely as WrestleMania is coming up this coming weekend.

Yeah, brother. I know my wrestling. Brother. brother.

Uh, let's get right to the Tracy Morgan sketch.

This is, you know, just one of his, I don't even know how you say it.

It's, it's, it's a bizarre character.

It's very Tracy Morgan and it is Brian fellows, safari planet.

This used to be, uh, when I was going to performance school and going to the

Groundlings, Tracy Morgan was a regular on it.

And I had stopped watching Saturday Night Live after university,

but I started again when I went back to school at 29 years old.

Track 2

[1:06:48] And Tracy Morgan was one of the highlights for me. I just thought he was so

absurd and so off the beaten track in a way that is different than,

say, Will Forte or Kyle Mooney.

Uh, just unique and this sketch shows that I think Thomas and Deremy picked a good one.

So buckle up and let's listen to Brian Fellows, Safari Planet.

Track 5

[1:07:31] Brian fellow is not an accredited zoologist nor

does he hold an advanced degree in any of the environmental sciences he is simply

an enthusiastic young man with a sixth grade education and an abiding love for

all god's creatures share his love tonight on brian fellows brian fellows Brian

Fellow's Safari Planet.

Good evening, and welcome to Brian Fellow's Safari Planet. I'm Brian Fellow.

Track 5

[1:08:02] Tonight we're going to meet some animals that aren't cute or cuddly.

They're weird, and I'm very excited and a little scared. So let's get going.

Our first guest enjoys eating tin cans and whatnot. Please welcome a goat. A goat.

And who are you? I'm Heather Rosenfeld of the Mid-Vermont Animal Allies Educational

Cooperative in Rutland. Of the what?

The Mid-Vermont Animal Allies Educational Cooperative in Rutland. I'm Brian Fellow.

Yes, I know. That goat is weird.

This is Thunder. She's a spotted Nubian milking goat, and she was birthed during

a severe rainstorm, hence the name. He has devil eyes.

Well, it's actually a she, Dr. Fellow, or a doe in goat talk.

-"Goats can't talk? That's crazy.",

What I mean by goat talk is the lingo that goaters like myself use.

Of course, I'm not a goat.

That's what i said yeah they can't talk i bet if this goat could talk he would

say things like curse words and call people doodoo head and sing naughty songs he's weird,

well it's a she i'm brian fellow.

Track 5

[1:09:30] I know i know he just smiled at me your devil goat smiled at me take him away

all right come I know goats can't talk, but they can smile, and I don't like that.

Sorry, our next guest is very special. Please welcome a miniature horse.

Track 5

[1:09:55] And who are you? I'm Morty Kittle from the Animal Rescue Center in Phoenix,

Arizona. I'm Brian Fellows.

This is Apples. She's a miniature horse, and she's one of our rescued animals.

She was saved from a circus fire after a disgruntled clown set fire to some

oily rags and burned down the Hoaxy Brothers Big Top.

Unfortunately, the Monkees weren't so lucky. I'm Brian Fellows. Hello.

That's the biggest dog I've ever seen. What's wrong with that dog?

Um, it's actually not a dog. It's a miniature horse. I want to see that dog catch a Frisbee.

Well, people sometimes mistake him for a Shetland pony, but he's,

you know, never a dog. Did you see that weird goat?

Yeah. He had devil eyes. I hope he gone.

Well, as I was saying, there's an interesting difference between a Shetland

pony and a miniature horse like Apple's here. You think goats can't talk,

don't you, Brian Fellow?

That's why everyone called you a doo-doo head.

Brian Fellow's a doo-doo head. Ah!

Shut up! Did you just tell me to shut up? I was talking to that goat.

Track 5

[1:11:23] What goat? I'm Brian Fellow's. I know that.

I'm Morty, and we're talking about my miniature horse, Apples.

If that goat is still here, I'm going to wait outside his dress room and just kill him.

It's terrible, herding a little goat. Can I bring your dog with me to help me trick that goat?

Well, that's all the time we have today. Join me next time when we're going to meet a tree frog.

That's funny, a tree frog. I'm Brian Fellow.

Track 2

[1:11:58] Oh, man.

Track 5

[1:12:00] Man.

Track 2

[1:12:01] I...

I should probably wait until the sound stops, but that is just good stuff.

It's so wonky. It's so bizarre.

You know, laughing at a tree frog to punch the sketch.

But the baby goat, just his catchphrase. I'm Brian Fellows.

It's all just so out there and so wonderful.

Will Tracy Jordan be wonderful? I just said Tracy Jordan. Oh my gosh.

There is a listener who is going to want me to put a nickel in the Tracy Jordan jar.

You know who you are. And I just did it.

Gosh, darn it. At any rate, Tracy Morgan, is he wonderful enough to be enshrined

in perpetuity inside our Hall of Fame?

Well, that's for you to decide. Did Deremy make a cogent enough argument for you?

Were you reminded of the greatness of Tracy Morgan?

Track 2

[1:13:07] That's all on you. We are going to open voting in mid-May, and you'll have a

chance to cast a vote in favor or against.

Not necessarily against Tracy Morgan.

Track 2

[1:13:21] That's what I've got for you this week. I want to thank Matt Ardill.

I want to thank Thomas Senna. And of course, I want to thank our guest,

Deremy Dove. He was absolutely wonderful.

Next week on the program, we have got a good one for you.

We are going to be talking all about John Mulaney, only this time in the writing category.

That's right. Mr. Mulaney will be on the ballot in two different categories.

This is an SNL Hall of Fame first.

Thomas will be joined in that conversation by Victoria Franco.

Go, so you don't want to miss that one.

Track 2

[1:13:58] Now, if you would do me a favor, and on the way out, as you pass the weekend

update exhibit, turn out the lights, because the SNL Hall of Fame is now closed.

This week on the SNL Hall of Fame podcast we welcome back to the show, the statistical guru of the Saturday Night Network, Mike Murray! He's here on the pod to discuss our third host in a row, this time it's Emma Stone. Get it wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript:

Track 2:

[0:42] Thank you so much, Doug DeNance. It is great to be back inside the SNL Hall of Fame with you all.

Track 2:

[0:51] Big kudos for you showing up this week. It's been a stormy week here in Toronto where the Hall of Fame is and our guest count has went down.

But I'll tell you what, the floors are a mess. I don't know what kind of message I need to send to you, but wipe those feet, people.

The SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair where each episode we take a deep dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest, or writer and add them to the ballot for your consideration.

Once the nominees have been chosen, we turn to you, the listener, to vote for the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined for perpetuity in the hall.

That's how we play the game. It's just that simple.

All you need to do is listen in for the argument that is being made by our special guest for the week and determine whether or not they make a strong enough case.

From there, you'll get a ballot and you'll get to place your vote.

If a candidate reaches 66.7% of the ballot, they are welcome to join us here in the SNL Hall of Fame.

Did you know that if you're in the Hall of Fame, you get a pass that you can come in for free anytime you want, and we'll even provide you a bottle of water. So there's that.

Track 2:

[2:19] Let's track down my friend Matt for some trivia in Matt's minutiae minute.

Let's see if I can find him here. I'll give him a holler.

Track 3:

[2:29] Matt how in the world are you doing this week i am good thank you i am good, busy busy but can't complain well you just did.

Track 3:

[2:42] Well stating a fact isn't necessarily complaining but yeah i was complaining.

Track 3:

[2:50] Well no one will be complaining about our nominee this week uh emma stone is who you're going to be be talking about learning me up real good here.

What have you got for us this week, Matt?

Emma Stone, height 5'6", born November 6th, 1988, making me feel very old again.

She's accomplished much more in her shorter life than I have in my longer life.

So I found out that her low voice stems from actually having colic as a baby that lasted six months.

So I'm shocked that her parents didn't pull out all of their hair um it developed she developed nodules and calluses on her vocal cords which is how why she has such a distinctive voice she actually has a phobia of being lifted up or being high because uh when she was seven she was doing gymnastics on on the parallel bars and fell and broke both of her arms. Oh my gosh.

Horrible. Yeah. Oh yeah. We need to have a warning at the top of this one, a trigger warning.

Yeah. Trigger warning for anybody who's afraid of gymnastics.

Yeah. She grew up blonde. Judd Aptow suggested for she go red for super bad.

And she real, after doing that, she found that she was called back much more for auditions. So she just stayed a redhead.

Track 3:

[4:16] Originally named emily stone she changed to emma as there was already an actor named emily stone registered with sag and it happens amazingly a lot um a lot of actors uh go by three names or or a slightly different name um she actually prefers emily over emma so that's how she would would prefer to be called um but she took the name emma from a member of her favorite band the spice girls oh baby yeah she is she is a baby spice fan me too that was my favorite yeah there's actually pictures of her on the internet meeting them losing her mind like tears fanning out it's uh it's very endearing now she knew at an early age she wanted to be a film star and convinced her parents to move to Hollywood by putting together a PowerPoint presentation named Project Hollywood.

She lists her heroes as Gilda Radner, Diane Keaton, and Marianne.

Track 3:

[5:22] Cotillard. But yeah, she's been dreaming of being on SNL since she was a kid.

So having been a host multiple times now, she got that dream.

Since that PowerPoint presentation, she went on to be an actress in 57 films, produced 11 films, and has four soundtrack credits.

She has been in five Oscar-nominated films and herself has been nominated for four Oscars, five BAFTAs, seven Golden Globes, six SAG Awards, and many more.

She is one of only eight actresses to win an Oscar for a musical, the others being Rita Moreno, Julie Andrews, Barbara Streisand, Liza Minnelli, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Jennifer Hudson, and Anne Hathaway.

Before she initiated Project Hollywood, she was developing websites and learned HTML at the age of 14, launching her own webzine called Neptune, which pulled on her love of journalism.

She dreams of being a Jeopardy contestant to this day, and she deleted her Facebook.

Track 3:

[6:26] Not because of harassment, which is a delightful change given the way the internet is, but because she was addicted to Farmville. Oh my gosh.

She is a true nerd. She even got to turn her theater nerddom into real-life Broadway credentials, taking over for Michelle Williams as Sally Bowles from 2014 to 2015 in a Broadway production of Cabaret.

So yeah, Emma Stone, honestly one of my favorite Hollywood stars.

I'm looking forward to hearing all about her. She is a great host, but is she a Hall of Fame host?

Track 3:

[7:06] Let's take it down to Thomas now with Mike Murray.

Track 4:

[7:40] Alright, JD and Matt, thank you so much for that valuable information.

You guys are, I'm telling you guys, you guys are kicking so much ass on Matt's Minutia Minute this year. It's been really enjoyable to listen to.

Definitely appreciate that. So welcome to another edition of the SNL Hall of Fame. Welcome to our chat.

Today's nominee is the one, the only five-timer, newly minted five-timer, Emma Stone.

We're re-litigating or re-examining Emma Stone's case, her candidacy.

She's been on the ballot since Season 1. So I'm excited to get into Emma Stone, get into her candidacy, why she may not already be in the SNL Hall of Fame.

And to do that with me, to break down Emma Stone today, I have a great guest, a first-timer. I guess technically he's been on a roundtable, but he's first time for being a guest on an actual, like an episode, like a nominee episode.

Track 4:

[8:35] So please welcome from SNL by the numbers on the Saturday Night Network, I have Mike Murray joining me today. Mike, how's it going, man?

Good, Thomas. Good to see you. Two nights in a row. You were on my pod just last night and we're doing this again.

I'm so happy to be here with you. I love these home and homes and I had such a good time.

So we recorded, I did SNL by the numbers after the Shane Gillis episode, which was such a fascinating episode going in.

It ended up being a fascinating episode to talk about. I love being on your pod, man. We get to dissect numbers.

We get to talk different facets of the episodes and the season in general.

So I love when I get asked on your pod.

It's always a good time. Oh, thanks. You're such a great guest.

And if you haven't checked it out, it's just truly the sports talk radio of SNL. And so Thomas is a perfect guest for it.

Perfect. Bill Kenney was also with us.

So that's like quite the trio right there. That was a good time.

Yeah, we could do our own weekly show, the three of us.

Absolutely. No kidding. So yeah. So can you maybe elaborate like what's been going on in SNL by the numbers?

How's just the pod going? Tell everybody about the pod a little bit.

Track 4:

[9:45] Sure. I mean, it's quite the passion project for me.

I've been doing this since 2018, but since the SNN, the Saturday Night Network started up, I've been doing it, the stats weekly.

So what I do is I record the screen time for every individual that appears on the show.

Track 4:

[10:04] I put that into what I call the SNL supercomputer and just have spreadsheets on spreadsheets and try to just dissect and i say demystify the show because it's been going on now 49 strong seasons or 49 seasons strong whatever way you want to put it and i just try to figure out what their process is and who is who is doing better than the other person and who's leading in every single category cold opens monologue sketches update everything like that and what i do is take pick every piece of data and put it into an algorithm. And I call it the power rankings.

Track 4:

[10:42] And so week to week on the show, Wednesdays, 8pm Eastern, following a live show, we've run down that episode and do an update on how everyone's performing that week.

So it's called SNL by the numbers on the SNN.

That's so awesome. You're catering to, I think, how so many fans watch SNL I think I don't know if it's a cliche at this point but I found I basically found my tribe a few years ago because I've always watched SNL like it's a sport like I follow baseball basketball football hockey and SNL like those are my sports so just to find someone who also follows it like a sport find a whole community that follows SNL like a sport then we now we have stats to go with that like that you're catering to not just me but so many people out there Mike And you would think that's such a niche group, but...

Track 4:

[11:35] Truly, it's a live sport. Anything can happen, and that's why I love it so much.

Yeah, we have a wonderful community here of SNL nerds that just love your podcast. SNL by the numbers.

Go check that out. Mike, I want to talk to you from the perspective.

You're the stats guy, but I want to know a little bit about Mike Murray, the SNL fan.

Track 4:

[11:59] Let us know, what's your origin story of being an SNL fan? man.

When did you start watching? Any particular cast that you love?

Sure. I feel like a lot of SNL fans, it was passed down lineage-wise from my parents who were constantly quoting the show.

And I had no idea what they were quoting. Chopping Broccoli, Wayne's World, all that kind of stuff.

Track 4:

[12:23] So I feel like I started watching in the early 2000s.

My earliest memory was actually a vhs tape that my dad had because he was a huge aerosmith fan and he was actually in an aerosmith tribute band and a friend of his who recorded snl like weekly on vhs he took his tape and copied it because aerosmith was in that wayne's world sketch and so i had had that episode so i watched that episode in the vcr and just really got into the the show and was just fascinated by the fact that it changes every season so it wasn't like this kind of serialized thing where you had to catch up on it you could just pop in and watch it and so probably the first cast was like the that i really watched week to week was like the fallon and um maya rachel like that era and i've watched it ever since my high school cast was was the Sudeikis-Sandberg-Wig era, which is, I think, a golden age.

And now it's literally an obsession and a full-time job.

Yeah, that's similar to a lot of our origin stories. You're exactly right.

Then keeping the stats, how did that develop?

Track 4:

[13:40] That just came from a fascination of that ever-changing, ever-growing cast.

So I used to just pen and paper when I saw someone just tally it.

I've heard other people have done that too.

And then I was thinking, I'm so into stats, so into sports.

And like you mentioned, Thomas, that it does feel like that competitive edge to it that even if cast members don't want to admit it, it really is vying for screen time.

So i thought like well what would it look like if i timed it so at first it was very elementary very rudimentary just counting and i would memorize the cast every year and all time, and then i just started going like well how do i how do i parlay this into something interesting that's just not raw data so i went from there and took the appearances and the screen time and try how to just meld them together so that's kind of how it all started to be and then with the podcast and then with a lot of fan interaction from the great community it just really snowballed yeah, you and you've so you've obviously watched a lot of snl you've seen a lot of great hosts the one that you mentioned the aerosmith i believe tom hanks was the host right siblings siblings yeah so tom hanks was in that wayne's world sketch yeah so you've seen a lot of great hosts in your your day.

So what do you look for in a great SNL host, Mike?

Track 4:

[15:04] It's such a great question because I think that there's so many qualities that make a good host and not a lot of them, even the greats, can possibly possess all of them.

But number one, elevate the material.

They're at the mercy of the writer's room. So you're not always going to get the greatest host to have the best material and vice versa you could have a not so great host and great material so that's number one and then i would say bring something to the show that i can't just get from cast number x so some edge that they can bring that oh i'm glad the host wasn't doing that was doing that and not just kate mckinnon or will ferrell or somebody who's like the star of the show and then something that's important and we're talking about emma stone tonight is just at least important to me as a super fan is have a reverence or understanding of the show and like when the host doesn't just play themselves but bring some of their personality with it too yeah I love that and we will see that's a theme with Emma.

Track 4:

[16:10] Right off the bat, we know that she's a big fan of the show.

She does revere the show.

She grew up watching the show. So right away, we as fans, it's endearing for us to see someone like Emma Stone on screen.

So I think those are all great things to look for in a great SNL host.

Track 4:

[16:29] So today we're re-examining Emma Stone's candidacy because she's been on the ballot since season one.

And her voting track record it's kind of interesting to me uh season one 10.3 percent of the vote and season two emma got 11.7 percent up in season three to 15.5 percent then we saw quite the jump last season season four 32 percent of the vote so we've seen her climb a little bit so she's making some progress but i'm curious like why do you think emma has maybe slipped through the cracks a little bit in terms of her place among other great snl hosts well first of all i don't think there is a female host in the hall of fame yet so i'm hoping that that gives her a little bit of an edge candace bergen still waiting yep and i was on the round table talking about candace uh with you recently so i think maybe the recency might play against her at the the moment because thinking about your show and how many titans of snl have to get in so maybe a more recent host is like well they'll get their time so now that she's been on the ballot for four years i think people are starting to realize like we don't want to miss our chance and we got to get emma in there yeah do you think that uh that jump from 15.5 percent in season three to 32 percent in season four.

Track 4:

[17:57] I mean that that vote happened almost right after.

Track 4:

[18:00] She hosted for a fifth time do you think that jump can be credited attributed to maybe like her hosting like like she was maybe.

Track 4:

[18:09] Fresh in people's mind so like that was recency bias like that possibly worked for her in a weird way oh 100 because there's no greater honor for a host than to be in the five-timers club and get to get that jacket, so once you hit that threshold, that 3,000 hits or that many wins, whatever sport you want to call it, touchdown record.

So you have that resume.

I almost feel like it's not a prerequisite.

Track 4:

[18:39] If you're in the five-timers club, there's an argument to be made.

Yeah, I think so. I think you're right. It does solidify a host.

I wouldn't say it's arbitrary, but it is. I think I love that we do watch this like sports.

Track 4:

[18:53] So if you think of 3,000 hits, that's a little arbitrary.

What's the difference between that and 2,999 hits, right?

Track 4:

[19:03] Not too much, but it's that visual. it's that like it's something that's tangible that you can point to and say that's like the line and at snl we've decided a five-timer that that's kind of the.

Track 4:

[19:15] The line where where you start getting a lot of recognition so yeah i could see uh that jump being attributed to that uh for sure and she's definitely a host that deserved it's like her five-timer that was inevitable that was and only 24 members so we're not talking about right you're right a long list that everyone one makes it into eventually yeah you got to stay relevant for a long time and be a friend of the show and perform to even get that opportunity at three four let alone five so she's just just this past december became the 24th member of that club and only the and uh only the sixth woman to join the club yeah that that's a that's a good point so it is like an exclusive club like the 3000 hit club yeah 500 home runs and things like that so emma's first episode was october 23rd 2010 that was in season 36 early on in season 36 emma stone a first timer she had already been in some stuff she was in super bad uh she was out um promoting things her career had had jump started probably two or three years uh of being relevant uh in hollywood uh around that time so her first episode Mike I want to throw it to you like what do you want to start with as far as what stuck out in Emma's first hosting gig.

Track 4:

[20:34] Well, first of all, Superbad, one of my favorite films, and the first R-rated movie I ever saw in theaters.

Really? I have a special place for Superbad and Emma for that reason.

So yeah, October 2010, two weeks before she turned 22.

So she was a young host, 35th youngest host all time, 23rd youngest female host all time.

And that's to this date, not even just back in 2010. and that episode you know if you watch it now you see the makings of a great host but she really played the straight role or a secondary character in a lot of those sketches but it's something about emma stone when she's so facially expressive and is a great team player and like we mentioned reveres the show and just i think understands what any type of role she she could do um we We mentioned Superbad, so that monologue, Taron Killam, Bobby Moynihan playing Michael Cera and Jonah Hill was great.

And then she was in a digital short, the I Broke My Arm, which I forgot all about until I rewatched.

And then, of course, I have to mention, which is like, I feel like a pivotal moment in my, I was 2010, so I'm a senior in high school, and something about the Le Jeune de Paris just really got me because it felt like an old-school SNL sketch.

Track 4:

[21:58] It's not in English, first of all, and there's very little dialogue.

So it's all these sight gags and a lot of movement because they're dancing, and her and Taryn just had this great chemistry.

So that's the one that if I had to mention anything from the first show, it's definitely Lejeune de Perry. Excusez-moi, mademoiselle.

Vous voulez jeter ça à la presse et moi?

Track 4:

[22:23] That was a great one.

That was probably the first thing she did on the show, to me, too, that really stood out.

And you're right, I never thought about it. But now that I'm thinking about how something like that could fit in other eras, I could see Mike Myers and Jan Hooks playing those roles or something like that.

Yeah, this would go well in any era. And I think Emma really brought fun energy to this. And she really matched Taryn Killam the entire way with the dancing, with her French accent.

My French teacher wife, I've shown her this sketch and she's like, those are pretty good accents.

She laughed because Taryn just kept talking about grapefruits at the beginning of the pamplemousse. That's a fun word to say.

Grapefruit. And so my French teacher wife was laughing. She's like, yeah.

She's like, Emma actually has a pretty good accent in this. So like bonus points.

But it seemed like, yeah, Emma's just really having a lot of fun, playing really well at the cast.

I think, Mike, you're right. A sketch like this really showed that this was a host that loves the show and really came to play.

Track 4:

[23:30] Absolutely. And just if you're going to see an episode with Emma, where she is, like I mentioned, just kind of on the team, just on the bench, ready to do anything.

It's that because when she had her moments, she sees them completely.

And I mentioned that digital short.

And, you know, she had some minor parts. She played, did an impression of Lindsay Lohan on The View and was with Nassim Pedrad's My Brother's Bedroom talk show, did a 10 to 1 with Keenan. And so a lot of them were just kind of that second role.

Actually, her first appearance, she post monologue was just completely playing straight for like the dream home makeover.

Hello. Yes, I'm looking for Miss Lita Mill Douglas. I'm her.

Well, we are here to say that you have won Dream House Extremes $2 million homemaker. You won. You're on TV.

Track 4:

[24:31] Wow okay wow okay wow yeah and kristin wig is you know chewing scenery and being kristin and emma just had to be very deadpan and so for her to go with that then to the digital short and then to have this like high energy dance number it's like what you know this for a first time you know debut on snl like really kind of covered a lot of ground yeah it's it's interesting too because I think there's almost a catch-22 or weird thing that happens sometimes when you have a really good host especially like a really good first-time host is that they're so willing to play with the cast and there's they understand sketch comedy so well that they don't always have to be front and center so someone like Emma Stone understands the comedy behind this she loves the the show.

So she's willing to play the straight person or willing to, to be part of the ensemble or side character.

And then it might seem on the surface, like she didn't contribute to the show, but she did in a way that somebody who loves the show and who's a good sketch performer would contribute to the show.

Like they didn't have to tailor the whole episode around Emma Stone.

Is that something you picked up on here?

Track 4:

[25:45] Oh, absolutely. Because it's sometimes, I mean, SNL fans appreciate a utility player, more than maybe the casual who wants to see a celebrity in like a funny wig and costume doing an accent or something like that, because it's more of a easier laugh.

So I like what you said about how that it's more of a contributing to the entire sketch rather than being the spotlight on you.

And of course, we're going to see plenty more of that in our next four shows.

Yeah, that seems to be a theme of her hosting gigs. There was one sketch in this first episode in particular where I thought that maybe I wish Emma had more to do in this in this bizarre sketch in particular.

And it was that sex ed, the sex ed Vincent sex symposium sketch with Paul Britton.

Like that was a great Paul Britton showcase.

And Emma had a little bit to do. Day three is devoted to fantasy roleplay scenarios, including sexy hospital, sexy insurance scam and sexy robbery. So on the floor, lady.

Oh, great. Well, do whatever you want with me. Just don't shoot my brains out.

See, now what's she going to do? She starts thinking to herself, what are you going to do?

We could polish that apple between our butt cheeks.

Without letting it hit the floor? Yeah, I don't know. Is that kinky or is that weird? You tell me, is it? Who's to say? Exactly.

Track 4:

[27:04] Who's to say? But I think that's something where Emma and Paul Britton could have teamed up and really made it this weird thing that Emma could have contributed to it more.

So that's an example of something to where maybe I thought Emma was underutilized.

Even though she does know her role in a lot of these sketches, I really think that she could have even been used a little more effectively.

That sketch in particular sticks out to me.

Yeah, I mean, it's what we remember Paul Britton for, if at all, is sex ed. And that was a pre-tape heavy first episode that she had.

And yeah, just was kind of, if you don't remember that sketch, she just played this role play burglar.

Track 4:

[27:52] That was kind of it so it was really only a few seconds or maybe like 40 seconds of screen time in that yeah so maybe not an all-timer of an episode uh on the surface but to me emma really stood out as someone who clearly loved the show she was excited to take part in whatever goofy thing they threw her away and mike it was easy to see to me why they wanted to have her back like this was the first time host and i know what you see in first time hosts but i think us as SNL fans we know it when we see it as far as like oh yeah this person needs to come back this we're in the middle of season 49 and I think uh Io she was a great host first I was just thinking of Io yeah exactly same energy where it just was again on on the team just game for anything and that's all you can ask because I mean think about SNL it's very established institution very talented talented people.

Track 4:

[28:51] You got Lorne running the ship and you bring in massive egos constantly.

So to have a young, almost 22 Emma Stone or just a few weeks ago, Iowa Debris coming in and they're still young and trying to prove themselves.

So they weren't doing maybe the biggest things, but we're just down to have a funny show and have a quality show.

Yeah i have a feeling if iowa debory comes back and hosts again it's gonna be a better show i think she's gonna have more to do just like uh for sure we saw we saw emma having a little more to do so it didn't take emma long to come back obviously the show was excited to have her back so season 37 a year later emma stone's back in november of 2011 i think a lot more to do a lot more Emma Stone featurey type of things.

They did a Le Jeune de Paris part two. What did you think of that?

First of all, what did you think of the that they brought this sketch back?

Track 4:

[29:53] Well, it's one of the biggest compliments you can get is a sketch was so successful or at least popular enough with the fan base to inspire a second coming of it.

You know, they did do it again with other hosts.

But when I think of that sketch, I think of only Emma. I think they did with Miley as well.

But they did that and a year later did it again.

Track 4:

[30:15] So I think seeing that a second time just kind of solidifies it in my memory.

But I still always imagine that first song that they played in the original one.

Oh, no. Yeah. The first song to me is like the song and canon of these sketches.

I've put that song on playlists before.

It's a good song. You know, it got me to delve more into French pop.

That and was it Moonlight Kingdom, the movie by Wes Anderson?

Yep. Those two things kind of made me delve more into French pop.

Pop so uh so les jeunes de paris did that i like that this wasn't just a rehash of the first one too like they built on the last one created a whole narrative like you mentioned with a different song but like the characters emma and taryn's characters they were getting married a bunch of french things appeared on yeah they really went head first into uh fred armisen being like napoleon napoleon yeah andy sandberg coming in at the button as like quasimodo they just threw the the kitchen sink of all French things that Americans would think of.

The damn Tour de France went through the set. Yeah.

Track 4:

[31:25] Literally, yep. Gosh, yeah, that was great. So I think that was a successful part two, La Jeune de Paris.

She has her own recurring sketch. And even though Taryn did this with other people, I think I associate this sketch with Emma and Taryn more so.

There was a, and this is, you know, as we go along, we'll get into more Emma-focused things.

And I think this, what I'm about to talk about is an example of something Emma-focused.

And it was a very weird character named Wallace.

At the bridal shower. I had almost, sometimes this sketch slips through the cracks, but it's really, to me it shows Emma being willing to play weird.

She's going to throw on an ugly wig, kind of play this very bizarre, weird, socially inept character.

She doesn't need to be, you know, look great in the sketch and be front and center, and she doesn't mind.

She's like the type of host that doesn't mind getting weird.

And this bridal shower gift sketch is like a great example to me.

All right, okay, next one.

Feels like another video.

Twink Summer.

Track 4:

[32:37] Gay boy toys from all around the world. Get it? It's a sex movie.

It's like hers. Okay, I think I did wrong again.

What's the movie? I don't understand. Oh, no, it's nothing, Mom.

Is twinks summer, ma'am? It's 90 minutes, 100 twinks, one unforgettable summer.

Wallace, Wallace, Wallace.

Yeah, that's my big highlight from Emma episode two was Wallace because I think that's where her SNL star was born, was in that sketch.

And just leaning into character work and like you said, not trying to just be...

The you know young attractive actress but like no i'm down for anything like make me as like weird and awkward and creepy as possible because it really was just an all-female ensemble.

Track 4:

[33:29] Bridal shower and you know she's giving the the lubricant and the bringing in fred harmison as this like you know really weird prostitute and just that was definitely the um, the sign of things to come was that sketch.

So I'm glad you mentioned that because I wouldn't have let you go past this episode without mentioning Wallace.

Oh, no, it was great. Wallace is great, and she's not understanding the vibe of the party.

Track 4:

[33:57] And she's maybe feeling embarrassed, but she still wants to contribute in the way that she had planned.

Track 4:

[34:03] But still has some heart to it, some likability.

Track 4:

[34:08] Yeah, right. And even some, like, a little bit of relatability, a little fish out of water, just like somebody who doesn't really get the vibe trying to fit in maybe a little bit like alan in the hangover like just that's true he's like i'm i know i'm happy to be here but i don't know the rules that's a really good comparison to alan in the hangover i like that so yeah so we've seen especially gosh season 49 that's been uh there's been a handful of them it seems like that uh snl can rely on the host is hot types of motifs and sketches uh as we're recording this sydney sweeney's episode is coming up so i'm kind of crossed my fingers and hoping that they're not leaning into that with her too much but i'm glad that emma is not leaning into that especially right here yeah i mean we saw that with the jacob belordi and you know jason momoa taking his shirt off and you know it's fine once in a while but don't base the episode around it but you know we we don't want to see emma stone you know on a a poster being hot you know it's not what we want to see right yeah right yeah she's she could play hot she could play weird that's why she's like such a great versatile host so um is there anything else from um episode number two that um maybe stood out to you well maybe i and i think this is maybe a running thread that we'll get to but all of her monologues are like super strong and And very fun, well-paced.

Track 4:

[35:35] And so this was, she's promoting the amazing Spider-Man.

Track 4:

[35:38] And Andy Samberg comes down from the ceiling as Spider-Man, auditioning for the role, which of course was already cast with Andrew Garfield, who then pops into it.

But it was just kind of a moment where she really vibed with that era of the cast, of the show with that cast. And so we're going to see, you know, go forward till just a few months ago with this era.

But seeing Emma Stone and Andy Samberg felt very like this works.

Track 4:

[36:12] I love when SNL calls back older SNL stuff, but he was basically doing Horatio that did this, I think, with Kirsten Dunst. Yeah, and they referenced that.

Are you trying to remake this monologue? And Andy Samberg says, well, aren't you just remaking that same movie? Yeah, touche. Yes.

Track 4:

[36:35] She comes off as very likable in the monologues. again uh that first monologue we she said right away that like this is a dream come true she was a fan growing up so i think monologue is really important for a host and you're right she showed out well in this monologue uh definitely uh speaking of andy this isn't a highlight for me but just a little tidbit is that emma and it's not her fault but she probably has the privilege of being in maybe the worst lonely island digital digital short of all time i wish wish it would rain oh gosh that's like an infant i think that's an infamous lonely island, it's pretty bad and i love lonely on their snl hall of famers but emma to no fault of her own was in a memorably bad lonely island unless you love this one mike no i i i wasn't gonna mention it yeah it's uh one of the one of the few because lonely island uh for better or worse has no no trouble letting you know exactly what the joke is.

And with that one, we did not know what the joke was. Oh, my God.

Yeah, you're just watching. Where is all this coming from?

And Emma plays a character with just like an abnormally big butt.

It was just, yeah, it was very weird.

Track 4:

[37:50] Again, not Emma's fault, but it is a distinction that she has coming from this episode.

But she's right. She plays well with the cast.

And we will see that going forward with different eras of the cast. Andy in the monologue.

She took part in a Kristen Wiig showcase, the secret word sketch, which truth be told, I didn't always love these sketches.

But Emma in this particular one made it entertaining for me.

Back over to charlene's team i'm gonna give a receipt actually lyle i'm gonna let my friend mr pickles give the clues since he was such good luck to me during my talent portion of miss america right mr pickles right miss charlene he's british.

Track 4:

[38:39] This is good fun 10 seconds on the clock the secret word is cloud okay go ahead mr pickles Because, okay, this is why it floats in the sky. A plane?

Track 4:

[38:54] No, it's Poppy and I. So she took a sketch, a recurring sketch that I was never, I always had mixed feelings and usually negative feelings about.

And Emma made the secret word sketch watchable to me. She played Miss America from Georgia.

And she did some really weird ventriloquist stuff during the secret word.

So she actually made a recurring sketch that I don't love, like entertaining.

And that's a mark of a good host for me.

And I think SNL might use recurring sketches where the host is secondary as kind of a crutch for a weaker host.

So I'm glad you mentioned that. She really made the sketch better because especially that's not a sketch that you are too fond of.

Because they also did Herb Welch with Bill Hader, which I do love.

I do, yeah. And so they put her in that as well.

And she she was great and uh my last thing for that episode was they did a like office sketch with um listening to someone like you by adele yes where i mentioned that emma is so great like facial acting and it was a lot of just react you know cuts to reactions of the women and then like you know the men come in they show bobby outside as the window washer everyone just sobbing to someone like you so it's what just a classic snl sketch of like here's the joke we're gonna do it it again, but we're trying to escalate it every time.

Emma's so good at ugly crying in that sketch, just like everybody else.

Track 4:

[40:21] One more weird one. This was a pretty good episode, and I think Emma had a lot to do with it.

Again, with Andy, we're going to make technology hump.

I've always had a soft spot for this sketch.

He did it with Zooey Deschanel was in another rendition of this sketch at one point, too. But.

Track 4:

[40:42] Emma played this perfectly as just this really enthusiastic, upbeat person presenting this weird material.

But it's not weird to she or Andy. They're just like, hey, we're just going to make technology hump.

And I love when they got listener feedback or viewer feedback.

Hey, we've got some viewer email. Ryan from Sacramento says, we don't want your dumbass soap opera scene.

Just show clean, close-up shots of tech humping. call me a hopeless romantic but this lady needs a little dialogue before the action i hear that line was perfect and that's a sketch that i might not pull up and show a friend who doesn't not familiar with snl and when i re-watched that one that like really brought me back in time because i don't think i had seen it since it aired live it's the last piece of the night exactly and when i watched it i was like wow i remember watching this at you know 12 53 a.m um back in 2011 and that sketch with another host might have been too weird and inappropriate but like you said andy and emma were selling it like no this is fine this is okay so jason sudeikis as an xbox controller you know it worked yeah it definitely worked there was a digital camera involved and then at a certain point like the zoom went out and it was very creative way to make these these pieces of technology. Props to the props. Yeah, absolutely.

Track 4:

[42:10] And yeah, Zooey Deschanel was in one of these. And I think Emma probably sold it a little better than Zooey, to her credit.

So this is always one perfect 10 to 1 type of thing that Emma was just totally up for. A very weird thing that Emma was up for.

So I feel like Emma, you know, we saw in this second episode, somewhat confined to the era with being in some recurring sketches, an unfortunate digital short.

But she's a great host and I think that that shines through again so we're like two for two as far as Emma just showing us like what a what a fun presence she is on SNL absolutely I mean I'm sure at the end of this episode I might have to make a big case but it's again it's somebody who gets the show shows up and performs so two for two in my opinion I agree yeah absolutely and then it took Took her a few years, like about five years before she was back in December of 2016.

Track 4:

[43:08] Season 42, which I think history is going to look at.

Season 42 is a great season of SNL. Just a lot of really, really great episodes.

Some great hosts that season. Emma really stood out. This was a fun thing.

And Emma, so we had mentioned good monologues. And it must have been a thrill for her as a fan. She got to do a backstage monologue.

Track 4:

[43:33] In this episode i love backstage monologues me too they're my favorite that's the monologue to to mention because and that was when you saw especially with some time had passed so like thomas said you know she hosted the first time she's not even 22 yet she comes back a year later and then in the meantime as a dramatic actress is like doing great things so when she comes back it feels definitely like this is a celebrity now this is not just a young up-and-comer and so for her to she mentions that snl was like my high school and it's funny because she went to high school with ad bryant albeit for a short time um in phoenix uh because she um emma's from scottsdale and uh her and ad bryant are on the same age and went to the same high school together ad bryant makes a joke like what uh emma you know you went off and did acting and went to hollywood and emma says well what have you been up there he's like well i just i did high school yeah So I love that.

You see the classic backstage SNL and all the things we love to see.

And I just love that. And we see Leslie and Kyle making out and Keenan smoking backstage.

Track 4:

[44:50] There's a monologue to watch of Emma. It's that one. And that was very much of like, okay, Emma Stone is now in the club of SNL for sure.

There's no doubt anymore so if she never came back there's still an argument that she has made her footprint on the show but of course we saw more later yeah fantastic monologue good bit with rekindling her fling with bobby moynihan good callback they treated it like a dramatic like high school sort of movie that was great uh bobby wearing a snl letterman right yeah bobby's this this like too cool for school, jock with a letterman jacket that that breakfast club don't you forget about me exactly yeah, Yeah, great monologue. I urge people to go check it out. First sketch after the monologue, this theater showcase.

I love these theater showcase sketches.

And Emma, she played such a great, well-meaning, but misguided high school theater student.

That's what these sketches are about. And Emma, along with the entire cast, this is a fun ensemble piece with Emma and I think probably Kate.

But pretty much Emma leading the way.

Man, I love these. And Emma was so good at this.

Track 4:

[46:14] And scene. Excuse me, ma'am. Could you understand that? Uh, no.

Is it because we were speaking Mandarin? Yes. And you only know English? Yes.

Sad.

That the theater showcase and they did a few of them i think this might have been the last one they did is the most emblematic of that era so i don't meet many snl fans who like don't like this era but this is one that if you're into this sketch you're probably into that era and emma stone for sure was like one of the guys because at the end of the day they're all a bunch of like like, theater nerds living out their dream.

So we get to see them playing younger versions of themselves, being, like, social justice warriors and doing...

Track 4:

[47:09] Theater showcase and i loved like the the transitions with the prop movement and that music and just the bewildered crowd yeah just perfect yeah vanette was it vanessa was this one vanessa and keenan and yeah it was vanessa and keenan in the crowd just uh perfect the show was dedicated to um the the native americans at standing rock let's get them the pipeline that they want want i love that i just every beat to this sketch is just fantastic or they all kiss and they say black lives matter and they say i i think they just wanted a reason yes that was their black lives matter scene yeah yeah the this is one of a really great recurring sketch that i think you're right snl fans uh love i think sometimes it gets forgotten but you re-watch and okay these are really great and emma just did a great job um with leading this uh and i'll mention that that they did i think have a lot of musical theater moments in this era that didn't hit and so this one did for me a lot so yeah they could bring the sketch sketch back next week and i'd be like super pumped to see it again absolutely they should snl 50 this would be like a good Good type of scene maybe for SNL 50. I don't know.

Yeah. And just because it's all just vignettes. Exactly. Exactly.

Is there anything else in this episode, like something else that hit for you?

Track 4:

[48:36] Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention what I was calling forward to, which is the poster sketch, which is Emma's most prolific character.

She did Chrissy Knox in her third, fourth, and fifth episode.

So I have to shout it out now because usually the first iteration is the best.

So Emma Stone being on Pete Davidson's wall as a poster, talking about her fat, shiny hot dog was really, I think, a big moment in her SNL career because it did launch that character.

Yeah, but algebra's crazy, though. Solve for X? X is a freaking letter.

It's a variable. X is what you don't know.

Yeah, so if I eat this entire fat, gross hot dog and mustard plops all over my shirt, what does X equal?

What? That's not a math problem. Yeah.

Track 4:

[49:35] A host having a recurring character, a recurring sketch, is like a good feather in the cap.

We saw what Tom Hanks had, a few of them. He had Mr. Short-Term Memory.

He had the comedians, I think, that he did, who talked basically like Jerry Seinfeld.

He had that. Alec Baldwin had Tony Bennett.

He had some stuff like that. so I think you know it's a feather in the cap for a host to have recurring sketch recurring character Chrissy Knox here with the poster one uh the voice that she uses might be a little much for me sometimes like I think maybe she could have toned it down a little bit and I might have enjoyed it better but I do I do think the premise is solid and it just seems like Emma is just committing to it super well and having a lot of fun.

This is something that she's just willing to do.

I could just tell that she loves being on SNL and it shines through in the poster sketches.

Track 4:

[50:38] I think that's what's likable about it, too, is that Emma Stone, especially at this point in her career, was a well-respected actress.

And this was in 2016. So we're right a few months before she wins her first Oscar for La La Land.

And we never saw her play these very one-dimensional roles.

So I think she, like you said, was just having a blast being this character and just leaning into it like super hard yeah when we of course again yeah this is the the first of of three consecutive poster sketches that she would do in her episodes and one of my small complaints i just want a little nitpick i guess of some of emma's episodes is that maybe the writers in the show don't quite utilize her but there's a writer that utilized her in a couple of sketches the The first one being in this episode, Julio Torres utilized Emma Stone perfectly.

Julio, a candidate in SNL Hall of Fame candidate for this season. Absolutely.

Great rider. He utilized Emma so well.

Wells for Boys is in this episode. Classic error from this sketch, Mike. I'm sure that you enjoyed this sketch.

Track 4:

[51:56] So much. It's a sketch I could watch every month and still enjoy.

And again, it was a premise pre-tape. It wasn't a character pre-tape.

But Emma Stone has a moment where she just yells at this child.

That thing's weird. I don't get it. That's because it's not for you.

Because you have everything.

Track 4:

[52:17] Everything is for you. And this one thing is for him.

Wells for Boys by Fisher Price. And just really just completely takes the level down to this little boy, just to really just chew him out as off in the background.

Track 4:

[52:35] There's the young sad boy at the well.

So Wells for Boys should be definitely top 10 maybe of that era.

And Julio Torres is just, that's his style all the way.

Track 4:

[52:48] And so Emma Stone is just a great pre-tape actress for SNL. and that was a good example of it.

I'm sure Julio was excited that he had this idea.

He and his writing partner, Jeremy, had this idea for Wells for Boys and I'm sure they were excited to have a great host like Emma to carry something like this.

They didn't have to rely on a cast member and perhaps maybe the host wasn't even in the sketch or they shoehorned the host in to do something else and had a cast member play the lead.

They had Emma and this was this was perfect she had like such a great understanding of playing like the protective mom the understanding mom all of that so I bet you know Julio I don't know if he saved it for the right host or if it was just his luck that Emma was was hosting that week but it but she couldn't there couldn't have been a better host probably you know a great host could could do something like this she did julio's writing justice i think yeah well said perfect is there anything else from from this episode there was some like here and there i think we hit probably the main things yeah i mean i'll give a slight shout out to the nativity sketch she plays mary and uh that's a sketch that on rewatch wasn't very memorable the first time seeing it you know know eight years ago but i i i enjoyed more the second time of just being the frustrated.

Track 4:

[54:15] Virgin mary with all the people coming into the stable and that was a good uh good ending sketch for that episode yeah not much to say other than that but yeah that closed out the night emma got to play weird she got to put on like a weird eastern european accent uh in the the cleaning crew she and leslie and cecily got to play this cleaning crew in an office that sang like this this inappropriate song about Santa.

Track 4:

[54:56] Um, that was, uh, something.

It was, uh, okay or bad and you hate it. Your face looks confused.

You know who is Santa, right?

That was Emma being able to play weird, kind of like Wallace, probably not as good of a sketch, but she still got to, like, throw herself into, like, a weird character and a weird premise.

That stuck out to me just because I liked Emma's performance.

Yeah, and it was Christmas Candles was in that one, which is very like you know she could have been could have been a maya rudolph kind of role that she did and that was in a pre-tape earlier in the night too yeah a good ensemble priest piece that pre-tape and that's one thing snl did well in that era they did these slice of life relatable kind of pre-tapes like the um do it in my twin bed uh it was kind of something like a similar uh ish vibe so yeah that was her third episode i think uh uh she showed out well for herself uh that was season 42 we see her back um a little over two years later in season 44 this is april of 2019 and i know there's one honestly like one super super classic sketch in this episode pretty endearing monologue i think like where should we start with her fourth episode.

Track 4:

[56:12] Let's just start with the monologue because and you know we did i don't know if we're going to to mention cameos but in the meantime you know she had played rosanna rosanna dana in the snl 40 and now here she is in her monologue talk she mentions you know invokes the great gilda radner she said it became a huge dream to even be near this place so now here she is hosting for the fourth time and so like you said just very endearing again that reverence for the show like somebody that could win more oscars than meryl streep and be asked to host and be like Like, I'm so lucky to be here.

And so she had family there. She mentioned, kind of like I mentioned at the top of the show, just this kind of lineage of my grandparents showing my parents and my parents showing me this show.

And her love of Gilda Radner was, like, very genuine.

You know, it's not like it was written for her. Like, it's a real thing.

And clearly, you know, playing the iconic character on SNL 40 and being a friend of the show for that long.

So, you know, got to start there. there yeah it's a funny funny premise too of like you know she they're hinting at like the the five timers club.

Track 4:

[57:22] She's thinking maybe the cast is going to plan something special for her.

So it has all these fun beats about Kate and Kenan. They sing a song to the tune of No Woman, No Cry.

Oh, Emma, She Hosts. Yeah.

Aidy gives Emma a silver bracelet from her wrist. They trot out Melissa to do a string of impressions.

Track 4:

[57:44] Kyle, and Emma's super excited that Kyle's here. It makes her all night.

Yeah, great Kyle Mooney moment.

Oh, wonderful. Wonderful. Yeah, Kyle Mooney is going to be just like an interesting, I'm wanting to at some point maybe do a Kyle episode because I think he did more on the show than just as a little sidebar.

I think Kyle did more on the show than we even realize. And joking or not, it's fun to see Emma so excited about Kyle being there.

Yeah, this is following Kyle Mooney being brought in as a surrogate for Melissa to do an Oprah impression.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Melissa's like, I don't have an Oprah.

Track 4:

[58:20] Oh let's bring in kyle so fun monologue uh a wink wink to like snl history you're right she talks about her love of gilda there was an easter egg at the end of her first hosting stint there was a bumper card that had emma as rosanna rosanna dana at the end of that show so this was years before she played rosanna rosanna dana on snl 40 which makes me think that was by request almost i think so no i think emma was like i think i could do this and i would love to pay tribute to gilda and they already had like a visual of her dressed as rosanna rosanna dana for this just bumper card or whatever at the end of her first episode that was a little easter egg that i saw like re-watching these episodes yeah and i had mentioned that julio torres was a great writer and emma was able to see the vision of julio's writing and she was just a perfect person to be cast in Julio's sketches.

So in this one, we have the actress, which I think, as much as I love Wells for Boys...

Track 4:

[59:23] The actress, gosh, Mike, this might be the best thing Emma's done on SNL.

It's like a wonderful showcase of her talents.

It's number one. I mean, it has to be. It's something that, like I mentioned, if you had to show somebody something, this would be it.

It's so well done. There's not a second wasted in this sketch.

There's not a joke that falls flat or an extra cut to somebody else.

There's just no wasted space.

Track 4:

[59:50] Everything is perfectly paced. and I can't think of any host in the history of the show that would have been better at this sketch than Emma Stone was.

And it was at the end of the night.

So this is season 44, her fourth time hosting, nothing really to prove other than she's a good host and she's back and just goes full throttle, 10 out of 10 as Deirdre, the woman who gets cheated on in the gay porn. That was her role.

Track 4:

[1:00:18] And to be an Oscar winning actress at this point and being an actress playing a bad actress and just diving deep into the role and the props that you know the one ug boot and the new year's eve glasses it just everything about that sketch is perfect it's it has to be one of my favorite of all time just period yeah emma's really selling like the self-seriousness of her deirdre character it's it's so fun i think she has this great like like flat delivery so she's trying to like be the be an actor and i want to act this and then they ask her to deliver it flat and she's it's just funny she's like all right so she delivers a flat line action jared i'm getting my nails at the mall now teach my godson push-ups right before our wedding jared cut great nice and flat onto the real stuff it's like she has these perfect Like, this perfect delivery, perfectly executed, like, with what Julio Torres and his writing called for.

This, to me, is an example of what she can bring as someone who's a good actor and has a sense of humor.

Track 4:

[1:01:28] And it's why I get a little frustrated kind of re-watching these and remembering these episodes.

Because it's why I think that the show hasn't, for the most part, taken advantage of her skill set.

And this, to me, is a perfect example of what she could do.

Maybe like not in a sketch as great as this but the fact that she has a great sense of humor she gets the show and she's a good actor i mean i think she could have been utilized a lot better like julio showed how she could be utilized and i feel like if you know she of course hosts again after this but if she comes back like can we get julio to be a guest in the writer's room, and i you know i don't want to see a repeat of wells for boys or the actress but can we get a part three of this Julio-Emma trilogy.

Track 4:

[1:02:16] And this is... And Thomas, this is like...

When you bring a serious actor, actress to this show, we don't always know if they're going to be funny.

And so one great thing about Emma Stone is that she does comedy and drama so well.

So we already know that before she comes out for the monologue.

We're not going to be at the edge of our seat wondering if they're going to bomb.

But when you have a pre-tape like this, that they can flex those muscles to the perfect degree.

So we could have opened the show or closed the show with the actress, and we could make a case.

But here we are, end of episode four for her, and it should be on the best of that season, that era, and obviously for Emma.

Yeah, 100%. And to me, this is, to a certain extent, her fifth hosting gig.

So basically her last two hosting gigs just are a perfect example to me of why I find Emma Stone so fascinating as a host, in that she can stand out as a really great host during an episode that's not that good.

Track 4:

[1:03:26] And it's not the host's fault. So we have that.

So we have episodes of SNL that are good episodes with not that great of a host.

I'm not trying to bash him, but Michael Jordan hosted a really good episode of SNL, but I wouldn't say Michael Jordan was a great host. it just happened to be a really good episode Emma Stone especially with her last two.

Track 4:

[1:03:50] Really great host, that's obvious, but not great episodes. That's an interesting thing that can happen on SNL, Mike.

Yeah, I mean, as we know, it's such a hard show to make, and they don't bank sketches.

So they're not waiting for Emma to come along. Maybe she'll host next year.

Let's keep this in the bag.

Track 4:

[1:04:10] So it is of the moment. It's topical, and it's what's on their mind that week.

So we might strike gold with the actress in this episode for four and now for five and this is where i have said on my podcast that i do like kind of love when they announce a host that i've never really heard of or haven't seen because i don't go in with expectations where this one i as a huge emma stone fan huge snl fan couldn't have been more excited for and i left And I said to myself, like, that was kind of a bad SNL I just saw.

Yeah, it left us kind of hollow a little bit.

And we had just recorded or we just done the SNL by the numbers, me, you and Bill Kenny. And we did our rankings.

Track 4:

[1:04:56] So far as we're recording this episode, there's 12 SNL episodes in season 49 that we ranked.

And this Emma episode was like bottom half of season 49 for us.

But to no fault of Emma's in my opinion like she was obviously a good host a really game host there was actually on like even a couple of sketches where I thought that the like really solid writing and I thought Emma especially in the mama cast sketch but Emma really acted the hell out of it like she really went for it in that sketch there were a couple of good moments But this was an interesting episode.

I try not to get my expectations too high going into an episode.

But this was one where it was like, it could have been better.

Like, that was a bit disappointing. And it wasn't Emma's fault.

Track 4:

[1:05:48] And there were two sketches in this episode that I couldn't stop thinking about.

How did this make it into the Emma five-timer show?

Because I think there might have been the two worst sketches of season 49 as of this recording, which is the What's in the Kiln sketch with Heidi and Chloe.

And then we had Emma for the fifth time.

We didn't need Treece Henderson for the fifth time. So the Therese Henderson character I've ranted about on my podcast as like, you know, I talk about Keenan so fondly so often.

He's like a stat god for SNL.

And we saw Therese Henderson for the first time just like only a couple years before this.

And now it's the fifth time and you're going to make Emma Stone be in that sketch.

So just like some big swings and misses and nothing really that Emma could have done in either of those sketches to improve them.

So you could have the worst host or the best host of all time.

It couldn't have saved it. Where other sketches in the night, I will say, Emma did bring them up.

So a bad host would have made this episode really bad.

So thankfully they had like an SNL Hall of Famer, in my opinion, to be there for them.

Yeah, that what's in the kiln sketch is an example of the writing issues that I've had with season 49.

It was just basically, here's some bad pottery.

Track 4:

[1:07:17] That's the joke. There's no escalation. Here's just some bad pottery that we think is good.

Track 4:

[1:07:23] And SNL has had a problem with putting a hat on a hat or bringing in too many wacky things. They didn't bring in anything.

They just let Emma Stone have to just rot on the set with Heidi and Chloe.

And it was a long sketch, too. I mean, I have all the run times, but when I look back, that was one of the longest sketches in a while.

And it should have been four minutes shorter, but it was tough.

Yeah, it was brutal. But the make your own kind of music sketch, the Mama Cass one.

Mitch Lester. Yeah, it was basically Phil Spector, but like with the big like Afro and stuff. But yeah, Emma really went for it in this one.

I don't know, Mitch. The song is about celebrating individuality, not zombies. Dig, dig, dig.

Yeah, forget the zombies. Bad example. Oh, how about this? How about this, Mom?

Movie is I'm a prostitute.

I've serviced some of the most powerful men in the city. and god they're off on me but how could a powerless prostitute get even with these big wigs right well we'll find out at this swanky party they're all at come on hit it.

Track 4:

[1:08:34] And re-watching um her character wallace in the second episode i mentioned this is when she became a snl star and so i'm glad that in a not so great night that she reminded us that like this is an an actress who again gets the show but is very into character work and i thought that was a strong premise and it was fun we got to see chloe trost again sing so well for only like her second time in the you know as a new cast member and emma stone just again going.

Track 4:

[1:09:07] Just full court like all the way and completely leading it and so physical crazy facial expressions all over the set and i mean it was just like a crazy idea and a perfect host to do it so i love when a host is again trying to do like big characters and doesn't fall short yeah the sketch was better because emma took the reins i also really enjoyed enjoyed question quest and i thought it was a great premise emma was really good as the put upon contestant in the sketch uh it was it was the uh host played by michael longfellow of this game show where basically the whole point was for him to trying to foist his pet tortoise onto someone onto one of the contestants so i thought it was a really clever premise yeah not just a tortoise a 37 year old desert sulcata tortoise that yeah that might live for for another 150 years, for all he knows.

So basically it was this tortoise that was a burden on the host that he just wanted to foist upon somebody else. I love the premise.

Emma was really good in her role as this put-upon contestant that was hoping that another contestant would get the tortoise.

Wait, I won a tortoise? Sure did, and I'll miss him. He's been mine since I was six years old, and now he's yours. Congrats!

It's your tortoise? No, it's your tortoise.

Track 4:

[1:10:34] So you got him, like, 25 years ago? How long does a tortoise live?

That's a great question. Quest testants, how long does a tortoise live? Michelle?

A hundred years. No. Angela? Hmm, is it a corn or a flower tortoise?

I think you're thinking of a tortilla.

Track 4:

[1:10:53] Jen? It can't be more than a hundred years.

More than a hundred years is correct. A hundred and fifty to a hundred and ninety, to be exact. It lives for 190 years?

Maybe more. Everyone who studies them dies before they do.

It's one of my favorite sketches of season 49, an example of, like, I want to point at this sketch and look at the writers and say this. Do more of this.

Like, follow this template. It was funny, creative, good host.

Like, this one was a good standout of the night for me.

Yeah, and, you know, nothing out of the ordinary. I've done stats on my show about the first sketch of the night how they tend to be a little bit longer a little bit um.

Track 4:

[1:11:36] Trying to bring everybody in. They don't go too niche for the first half of the night.

They do a lot of game shows, a lot of talk shows, pageants, that type of thing.

So very down the middle, but just the right amount of quirkiness, good acting, good joke telling.

And we got one of only a handful of Michael Longfellow showcases this season.

And it was just, the whole thing was great. I mean, if I'm going to rewatch anything from this episode, it's definitely that and the Mama Cass sketch.

And i have to mention um her monologue for a fifth time because it was her five-timer monologue and she got tina fey third woman in the five-timers club and of course the first member of the snl five-timers club for a female host candace bergen so it was the show started very strong with that and question quest and it really dipped a lot and then we got that mama cat sketch Yeah, so that was her fifth time hosting, most recently, December of 2023.

Track 4:

[1:12:39] And I'm curious, Mike, like, so we talked about the big theme throughout our conversation about Emma being a very clearly talented host, who's a great performer, gives her all in sketches, big fan of the show.

But maybe hasn't been a part of a lot of top-notch episodes or maybe some up-and-down episodes because of perhaps the writing or her getting misused.

So how do we as fans and voters factor in talent versus things out of the host's control like writing when we are evaluating these hosts?

Track 4:

[1:13:16] Well, I think after going through these five episodes with you, Thomas, that she has made or been a part of four good to very good episodes and one probably below average episode.

So overall sample size, of course, if you're in 35 sketches or 30 sketches, there's bound to be some good and bad in there.

And as we mentioned, she did elevate some not so good ones and something like the actress was a good sketch and she brought it to a 10.

Track 4:

[1:13:48] So the sample size is there. The resume is there.

So I don't think I really hold against her this fifth time or any of the other not so great sketches because point to one sketch or pre-tape that Emma Stone like really missed the mark. I can't.

Yeah, we're both baseball fans and I compare it to maybe somebody like Mike Trout.

Like obviously an amazing player player that doesn't have any postseason resume no to speak of it's not his fault though like at all that's definitely not trout's fault so i i kind of equate it to that like when you have a really great host and you're right like if you have a large sample size there's going to be some bad ones too but that's how i kind of look at emma stone is as this like hall of fame caliber host that maybe hasn't played in like the proverbial world series or won a bunch of championships but talent's obviously there yeah it's fair i mean i and again i i've enjoyed all the episodes yeah yeah i think it's because of her though like you know like and that speaks highly of her like that's like a case for emma i think and doesn't emma just have kind of a vintage timeless quality anyway way that we can see her when she's in her 40s or 50s and I think she'll still be great so you know it's impossible to do but you could put her in a time machine with the 70s SNL cast I think she'd still be great so.

Track 4:

[1:15:15] It's really not a product of her environment but making her environment a product of her.

Track 2:

[1:15:39] So there's that. Thank you so much to Mike Murray and, of course, our friend Thomas for delivering the goods, getting a little inside baseball even with their analogy of Mike Trout and the postseason play.

Very interesting stuff indeed.

It's all up to you, though. So, at the end of the day, you are going to be the one to decide whether or not Ms.

Stone belongs in the Hall of Fame with your voting franchise that you have earned.

Let's go to a Hall of Fame-worthy sketch now. This was written by Julio Torres and Bowen Yang.

And, gosh, what season did it show up in? I'm not 100% sure.

I think it's season 44. It stars Emma Stone and Beck Bennett and a couple people from the adult film Persuasion, perhaps.

This is called The Actress and it's a classic.

Track 5:

[1:17:01] Excuse me, hello, I'm Grace. Are you the director of the film?

What? I'm the lead actress. I play the woman who gets cheated on in the gay porn.

Oh, yeah. I wanted to ask you about my line, if you have a moment.

I open the door and I say, Jared, what are you doing? Not with my godson. Like that?

Is that my content? Yeah. Fascinating.

Go put on whatever you want from the woman, Ben. You'll get your meal voucher after we wrap. Thank you.

Track 5:

[1:17:36] Oh! Ha! Lube! The director's method was to offer little guidance regarding the character. All I had were clues.

Pieces of the puzzle of this woman's life.

Two pairs of loose sweatpants. A single Ugg boot. A couple of batteries.

And some happy 2017 glasses.

Who are you, Deirdre?

That's the name I gave her. The first scene was rough. Action!

I was having trouble finding her. I'm going to the mall. Perhaps I'll get some flowers to brighten up the place.

The house could use some color, no? If you need me, you can reach me on my cell phone. Got it.

I'll just say what's in the script. I was just trying to access Deirdre.

There's nothing to her. People are just gonna scroll past you so they can get off. She has no past, no future, nothing.

She exists only to be cheated on. All right? Just save it to the script. Thank you.

Track 5:

[1:18:30] Action. Jared, I'm getting my nails at the mall.

Now teach my godson push-ups right before our wedding, Jared. Cut. Great.

Nice and flat. On to the real stuff. If you don't want to watch, you can sit on a folding chair just outside.

I'll call you when it's time for you to catch him in the act.

When they betray me, I was rattled. Jared, how could you? I didn't know if I would find Deirdre in time. Not with my godson.

Jared, Jared. Wife, we're ready for you. And then, just when I thought she'd never come to me... Action. She did.

Jared, what are you doing? Not with my godson!

I saw the rich and beautiful backstory of this woman.

Her childhood, her first job, the night she met Jared. Two, one, happy New Year!

Track 5:

[1:19:22] The promises she was told i will love you a woman forever her godson's 18th birthday i know how much you like batteries and all the other times she was blindsided by life jared someone broke in and stole my love dog boot jared you have a second cell phone jared why is godson sleeping over I felt the bruises and scars of her past. I saw what led her here.

Cut we'll edit that out just give her the meal voucher, oh deirdre how do i get you out of me i can't take you with me i'm sorry this is it goodbye, oh how did i get lube on me, Oh boy.

Track 2:

[1:20:40] That was one of my favorites when I saw it, and it really holds up.

I mean, it's only a couple years old, it's only five years old at this point, but goodness gracious, what a great piece of writing.

Writing going back to thomas and uh mike it would be just so fascinating if she had got writing of that ilk in her fifth appearance on the show which was a little shaky in my book uh they talked about it um at a level that uh go back and listen to it just go back and listen to it listen to it again that's what I'm trying to tell you and that's what I've got for you this week, it's been a busy one talking Emma Stone and.

Track 2:

[1:21:31] Really getting to know why she belongs in the hall, next week we invite our friends and Thomas' cohort on the Pop Culture 5 podcast, Jeremy Dove he'll be joining us to discuss the enigmatic Tracy Morgan so you're going to want to listen to that, now, if you would On your way out, as you pass the Weekend Update exhibit, turn out the lights, because the SNL Hall of Fame is now closed.

This week on the pod we welcome back, Jamie Burwood! To kick off the show we get Matt's Minutia Minute before we get into a fantastic conversation between Thomas and Jamie. Thanks as always for listening. Rate and review the show!

Transcript:

Track 2:

[0:42] Thank you so much, Doug DeNance. It is great to be here back in the SNL Hall of Fame.

[0:50] Please, mind your feet, give them a wipe, use the map for what it's supposed to be for before you come into our hallowed halls.

The SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair where each episode we take a deep dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest, or writer, and add them to the ballotfor your consideration.

Once the nominees have been announced, we turn to you, the listener, to vote for the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined for perpetuity inside the hall.

That's how we play the game. It's really quite simple.

You follow along, you vote, you celebrate or complain about who got in or who didn't get in.

It's really quite a bit of fun for us.

I am walking down the hallway now to talk to our good friend Matt Ardill, and we're going to get some information on who we're covering today and who will be nominating them.

Wait and see. Well, you don't have to wait and see because you can read the title. And I guess the title sort of gives it away.

That's right. We're talking about Jon Hamm today, and we're joined by Jamie Burwood. But before we do that, let's go to our friend Matt Ardill and get the skinny on Jon Hamm.

Track 3:

[2:13] Hello, Matt. Hello, JD.

What's shaking, my brother? Not much, not much. I am really looking forward to today's trivia.

Okay, who you got for us? John the Hamaconda Ham.

He is six foot one, born March 10th, 1971 in St. Louis, Missouri.

He is the son of a trucker and a secretary. He had a rough childhood growing up, which actually helped inform his backstory when he auditioned for his breakout role of Don Draper.

But his first acting role was as Winnie the Pooh in a first grade production.

[2:58] Oh, OK. OK, yeah, very early start.

But he didn't follow that up until playing Judas on Godspell at the age of 16 at John Burroughs School, where he was the member of the football team, the baseball team and the swimteam, because, of course, he was.

He actually dated actor Sarah Clark in high school.

He went on to attend the University of Texas before transferring to the University of Missouri, where he answered a newspaper ad for someone to play in a production of MidsummerNight's Dream.

[3:32] He's gone on to complete 118 acting credits, 10 producer credits, and he has one director credit.

He almost didn't get the role of Don Draper, which I can't imagine anybody else in that role right now.

But he was told by the showrunner that he was too handsome, which is not something I'm sure many people frequently hear in a like, I'm sorry, you're just too goddamn handsome for thisrole.

Yeah, they reevaluated and decided that he was he was the right fit.

[4:07] He rewarded he received an award nomination for Emmys for the show.

Golden Globe SAG Awards, Annie Hall Awards, Critics Choice, MTV Movie and TV Awards, National Board of Review Awards, Satellite Awards, Teen Choice Awards and TelevisionCritics Association.

Association um i'm guessing his teen choice was for something not mad men related there should be an acronym for all those awards like an egot you know yeah he should get some sortof uh preferential treatment in hollywood as a result of all those awards yeah they need to they need to broaden the awards like the mtv award teen choice award circuit that's right that'sright um the slimies I guess maybe I don't know that's good on television you know now before hitting it big he worked as a daycare worker and a high school teacher while teaching highschool he was actually Ellie Kemper's drama teacher and went on to help her break into the world of acting.

[5:12] Um gee whiz yeah so he followed the uh harrison ford school of of acting he worked as a set dresser uh unfortunately it was in a much more risque type of cinema uh as a set dresseron adult films get out of here no yeah that is one of the many jobs he did in the valley just trying to pay the bills yeah when he moved to la he actually only had 150 in his pocket and didnot book a single gig for three years.

He stretched that $150 then, didn't he? Yeah, well, he worked as a set dresser for adult films, so he was taking any job that came his way.

He actually set a career sort of deadline that if he didn't book something big, a breakout role by 30, he was going to move home.

Now, he did make that breakout role, and he's now gone on to star in all sorts of things.

While filming a young doctor's diary with daniel radcliffe he became an ardent cricket fan he has been a comedy nerd from the go yeah he's often seen on set quoting anchorman and.

[6:25] Amy poehler uh has recounted in her biography how when she was pregnant and he was coming on the show they were in makeup and she heard that her doctor had passed away shehad a freak out was was completely losing her mind because she was panicking he grabbed he took her by the shoulders looked her dead in the eye and said you know this is very sad.

[6:48] This is a really important show for me, so I'm going to need you to get your shit together.

At which point, she started laughing so hard, she almost, well, she says she peed herself.

But this is one of those moments that she says, you know, when somebody is so funny, they make you go from crying to laughing in a heartbeat.

And something that can only happen like five times in your life.

[7:12] He's so good. Have you ever listened to him on Comedy Bang Bang? Yes. Yeah.

He's just got perfect, that perfect sense of timing and the counterpoint to like going dark and going light and how to break that tension. Yeah.

So he's just, I think he's severely underrated as a comedic talent.

Well, I mean, less so now. I mean, he's kind of embraced it.

I mean, his Skip the Dishes ads are actually like super funny, which is like.

Great. you think a big star but like taking a gig doing ads for a food delivery service in canada not even uber eats but specifically a canadian one so it's like like people aren't gonna see itin the states i don't know but uh yeah he's just a super funny dude and i'm really looking forward to hearing um what what we have to have to hear today yeah me too we're fortunate to bebe joined by a friend of the show, Jamie Burwood.

[8:09] And gosh, I don't know how many times she's been on at this point, but she should be wearing a full robe and, I don't know, boots or something like that at this point.

I have to get like scepters for... Oh, that's good.

Scepters. I love it. Well, Thomas, take it away, buddy.

Track 4:

[8:56] All right, Matthew R. Dill and Jamie Du, thank you so much for that introduction.

Informative, as always. You guys do such a great job with Matt's Minutia Minute.

This has been a really great season of the SNL Hall of Fame in general.

Matt's Minutia Minute is going great. I feel like we've had a lot of great discussions this season.

So I think we're off and running. We're humming in this season.

And it's going to continue that way in this episode because we are welcoming a guest who I told her before we hit record, you're part of the fabric of the show at this point.

You're like a really special guest, like one of our VIPs at this point.

So Jamie Burwood, thank you so much for coming back here in Season 5 of the SNL Hall of Fame.

TV show graphs herself, Jamie Burwood, how are you?

I am doing great. It is good to be here again. Season 5, that's wild.

[9:54] Yeah, always love, love talking to you guys. I feel like we have a good one on deck for today.

So yeah, no, it's great to see you. Yeah, we've really done some fun ones in the past. Will Ferrell, Christopher Walken.

We've really just had really fun and very, very, very entertaining nominees.

And I would classify our nominee today just that a really interesting nominee.

Nominee and you're like the one of the perfect people to cover this nominee before we get actually before we get to the nominee who's TV related what have you been up to JamieBurwood just, Just in general, are you doing, I know you had the TV show Graphs.

How's that been going? What have you been up to?

Yeah, I know. Things have been going good here. I've been, I'll be honest, I've been a little slower on the actual graphing side lately.

I still have a few things I've been working on, but I have been catching up on a lot of television.

I feel like I go through like twigs of either like TV watching and then actually like working on projects.

And I have been, yeah, knee deep in lots of TV watching, catching up on some like anthology type stuff, a little True Detective, Fargo, that type of genre at the moment.

[11:14] And just, I mean, it's winter in Boston, so there's really not a lot to do other than watch TV, occasionally sneak away for like some weekend trips here, trying to get to places that areslightly less cold.

Um but yeah otherwise just just live in life here in the very cold city of boston.

[11:35] Yeah catching up on tv that's i think that's a great way to spend time and uh our so our nominee today made his bones essentially in a prestige television show i would call it it's amadman arguably by a lot of tv show experts and viewers one of the handful one of the four or five possibly greatest television shows of all time.

So Jon Hamm is our nominee for today. A really interesting one, again, to me.

[12:06] Jamie, were you a Mad Men watcher? I was.

I wasn't watching it live as it was airing.

It was probably like right as it was wrapping up that I started watching it from the start.

So it's not one where I can say like, oh, I was so ahead of the curve on this one or I was watching before everyone else. Sadly, I was not, but as soon as I watched it, I absolutely loved it.

It is probably a top 10 all-time show for me.

It's one that I think just you can watch it and re-watch it and still catch new things.

I feel like the caliber of performances, the caliber of storytelling, it is an all-time great show, and I know sometimes there can be a little bit of backlash from prestige prestige TV or like, Ifeel like Mad Men is one of those shows that always is on high on some of those lists. But for me, it's, it's deserving.

And I think Jon Hamm in particular made that show what it was.

[13:07] Yeah, amazing show. I know some people and I include myself in this.

It took me Mad Men took me probably four different tries to get going.

So I would watch the pilot, maybe watch the second episode, then I would almost sort of lose interest.

But the fourth time that I tried to get into Mad Men, it worked.

And I finished Mad Men in like two months, I just could not stop watching.

Every time I had some downtime, I would throw on another episode of Mad Men.

I just got completely hooked, and you're right. Jon Hamm's performance as Don Draper was one of the huge reasons.

Can you describe what Jon had to do on screen as Don Draper?

What kind of character was Don Draper?

What did Jon Hamm have to be on screen for that?

[13:56] Absolutely, yeah. I feel like with Don Draper, he definitely fits the mold of those anti-hero. You feel like there's a lot behind the surface with the character.

I mean, at face value, he's this 1960s ad-exact kind of the smooth talker, has the wife and family at home.

And then as the show goes on, you kind of see all that's behind the surface here in terms of, I mean, the very obvious things around the affairs, the drinking, just the whole culture.

But also in terms of his family history, I won't give any spoilers, but you just kind kind of learn that there are so many different layers to who he is and why he does the things that he doesand one of those characters that you really have a kind of complex relationship with in terms of how you feel about you can go from being like oh my gosh I feel so bad for this person Ihave sympathy based on situations in their past to feeling like oh my gosh this person is unjustified in their actions, and I absolutely hate this character.

He does it in a way where you really get some of those subtle nuances coming out in his performance, and I just think it's a top-tier performance.

[15:12] Yeah, and he had to be really subtle, too, like you said. Especially he had to use facial expressions, but really subtle facial expressions.

His tone of voice had to be a certain way.

Especially in the earlier seasons, he had to play it a lot more stoic. Yeah.

And as the series progressed, he was a little more animated.

But especially at the beginning of the series, there was almost like this enigma.

I mean, that was probably part of the point. But this enigma, and Jon Hamm had to play it like that. So there wasn't really a lot of time for slapstick comedy in his performance, right?

And so what makes him a really compelling SNL host is that he came from that dramatic background with Mad Men that really got Jon Hamm on the scene.

And I'm wondering, because as an SNL viewer, Jamie, I mean, how fun is it to feel surprised by a host? because I feel a lot of people were surprised by Jon Hamm.

So as an SNL viewer, how fun is that when you see a host and they surprise you?

Like to me, it's one of the things that makes following the show so rewarding.

[16:22] Agreed. Yeah, I think it's one of the best things, right?

Like it's there are times when you go into a host and you know what to expect.

And that's great. And that's solid.

But I feel like those like really special moments come when you go in, you're not sure what to expect.

Or maybe you see a host known for one genre and you're not sure are they going to be able to deliver on the comedy side and I feel like with with John John Hamm in particular like hewas somebody who was known dramatic actor at that point and maybe a question of how will this go how will he hack it in in a true kind of live sketch comedy atmosphere and.

[17:02] And that is one of the most fun things about this show.

I always have to learn my lesson time and time again, that a lot of times the really good dramatic actors are some of the best SNL hosts.

For sure. Like, yeah, I can totally see an alternate universe where Jon Hamm was a comedic actor.

I mean, maybe his looks might be a little bit of a detriment.

I feel like figuring out the right way to, like, cast him in comedic roles.

Roles but i mean i think it it happened that mad men became a very successful tv show and that's how people were introduced to him but in an alternate universe maybe a comedic rolewould have been his breakout and then we would have been surprised to see him do a show like mad men 10 years into his career and be like oh my gosh this hilarious guy is also anincredible actor so it's just kind of funny how it how it works out yeah i agree with you the tape it could have been been total reverse we found out over the years that John really enjoyscomedy I mean he's been he had a role in Bridesmaids that was really funny like while he was playing Don Draper he was he was uh Kristen Wiig's uh jerk boyfriend yeah in Bridesmaidshe's been on comedy podcasts he's really good at comedy improv that's like something that John's expressed over the years and.

[18:18] About how he really enjoys comedy. He almost just sort of, the Don Draper thing is almost like the thing that took off.

But you're right. He could have very easily taken off as a comedic actor.

For sure. You see a spark in him, I feel like, whenever he does any sort of comedic role.

And I think people have maybe started to see that side of him a little bit more so over the last decade or so.

He's done various guest spots, 30 Rock, Curb Your Enthusiasm.

[18:45] Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt.

Like he's had these roles where not necessarily the star of a comedy show, but able to shine in that type of role.

And you just you see that other side of him right away. Oh, my gosh.

This is a guy who no question can do comedy.

He's great at it. Yeah. People like Tina Fey, SNL Hall of Famer Tina Fey are giving their stamp of approval with Jon Hamm.

You mentioned 30 Rock, Unbreakable, Kimmy Schmidt. uh yeah he's getting like the the approval of people who really know their stuff with comedy so snl was maybe his first the firsttime that people got to see john ham's comedic chops so so that's why the uh john ham and snl that that's an interesting part of his story as an actor so we'll get to it gonna kind of like lookat some of his he hosted three times so we'll kind of look Look at his hosting gigs.

His first one, season 34, episode 6.

That was October 25, 2008.

So it was maybe the second season, I feel like, of Mad Men that was kicking up. So musical guest Coldplay.

And Jamie, this, I really, I'll say up top, when I saw this episode, I really enjoyed it.

So I feel like there's a lot of stuff that we can.

[20:08] Go over and choose from like what stood out to you uh you could make a specific sketch but like what stood out to you uh first and foremost from this episode yeah so what'sinteresting to me about this episode is just kind of the context in which it's taking place first so you have john ham coming in not necessarily the giant name john ham that we know nowright like madman i think took a little bit of time to kind of have the critical acclaimed bill and to have everyone and know it the way that they know it now.

So he's coming in a little bit more of an unknown than he is today.

[20:42] He's talked a little bit about this episode in terms of just like his own nerves and like excitement to host, but also being nervous, like going out, doing that monologue.

He was telling a story at one point about how he almost missed his cue to actually go out and like almost had to be like pushed out.

And I mean, once once the episode kicks off, I feel like he's he's a pro and like the professional Jon Hamm who does everything brilliantly comes out.

But yeah, it's just it's a little bit crazy to me in a good way how he pivoted from apparently being so nervous to doing everything he needs to do to just deliver on the sketches in thisepisode.

Yeah, there was a little bit of nervous energy, which is to be expected when you're hosting SNL. But it's kind of funny to see somebody like Jon Hamm, especially somebody who playedDon Draper, to be a little bit rattled by an experience.

So I love seeing the human side of somebody like Jon Hamm. Not everyone has discovered our show yet.

So tonight, in hopes of boosting our ratings, I'd like to tell you what you'll see if you tune in.

[21:51] Mad Men is a measured period piece set in the early 1960s that explores the social mores of advertising executives who, well, who like to dance with the stars.

It's a cutthroat elimination celebrity dance-off show, and it's on AMC, 10 p.m. on Sundays. days.

The show stars me, everyone from CSI, all of the Phillies and the Rays.

He's almost like this good looking robot actor in some ways.