When Orcas “Attack” – Alexandra Johnston on the world’s most infamous whales
Season 4 · Episode 94
Saturday, January 10, 2026 • Duration 54:28
Iberian orca guardian, Alexandra Johnston, Mark Leiren-Young about hanging out with the world’s most infamous orcas. On orcas as click-bait – the orcas who are “attacking” boats and how social media is creating orca hysteria. “Blue fin tuna is their main prey source. They are fish eaters, not boat eaters.” Alexandra Johnston. “I really feel these orcas have been used as click-bait for the last five years.” On the infamous White Gladys: “She’s a part of this family that’s fighting to survive. She’s very authoritative, she’s very dominant, she’s very curious, but she’s not this bloodthirsty tyrant leading this orca rebellion!”
2:22 Meet Alexandra Johnston – an “orca attack” survivor.
3:35 “These guys blew my mind… I was just fascinated from my first encounter.” – Alexandra Johnson
4:35 The first time she met an Iberian orcas and the magic of encountering their superpod.
6:34 Meeting the “infamous” White Gladys and her newborn baby, Atlas.
8:14 On the first time she saw a wild orca.
10:45 “It’s something very spiritual with the southern residents, isn’t it?”
14:35 “There is a big difference between their culture and their behaviour. When I talk about the Iberians -they’re spicy, that’s how I like to describe them. They are very curious.”
17:05 “Blue fin tuna is their main prey source. They are fish eaters, not boat eaters.”
17:50 On Iberian orca dialect. “They’re screechy.”
22:23 On the Iberian orcas LONG history or interacting with boars and social media creating orca hysteria.
24:35 On the Jaws effect and “I really feel these orcas have been used as click-bait for the last five years.”
28:00 On the experience of being on a boat when an orca starts “interacting” with it. “I very seldom see these news articles mention that this population is critically endangered… People are taking weapons out into the water.”
32:10 On working with Ric O’Barry and the importance of focusing on the animals.
34:30 The legends and myths of the infamous White Gladys – the Luigi Mangione of orcas. Why Gladys? It comes from gladiator! “She’s a part of this family that’s fighting to survive. She’s very authoritative, she’s very dominant, she’s very curious, but she’s not this bloodthirsty tyrant leading this orca rebellion!”
37:28 The scoop on The Dolphin Project – if you’re interested, please check out our recent interview with Dolphin Project founder, Ric O’Barry.
46:11 “I hope people are able to fall in love with them like everybody along the Peninsula here has to.”
47:10 Killer Whales – the song! Written and performed by Skaana host, Mark Leiren-Young.
Skaana podcasts connect you with experts and their thoughts on oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.
Polar Bear Jail, Chilling in Churchill & Hanging Out With the Apex Predator on Ice
Season 4 · Episode 93
Thursday, December 11, 2025 • Duration 44:26
Have you ever met a polar bear? They’re the fiercest animal on earth, one of the most iconic and one of the most chill – in every possible way. Cate Collins – the lead scientist/science translator – for polar bear tours to Churchill, Manitoba talks with Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young about hanging out with polar bears, polar bear mating and the impact of the climate crisis on their habits and habitat. “They are the top of the food chain… and they don’t have too much to be scared of.” – Cate Collins
6:15 The bears… they’ve grown accustomed to our face(s). “They are the top of the food chain… and they don’t have too much to be scared of.”
8:38 Buggy love…
9:22 Polar bear jail and how to deal with the prisoners.
15:37 The ins and outs of Polar bear mating.
18:27 On why polar bears are marine mammals and the bears who never leave the ice.
Skaana podcasts connect you with experts and their thoughts on oceans, eco-ethics and the environment.
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Flipper Trainer Ric O’Barry on his journey from SeaWorld to Sanctuaries
Season 4 · Episode 92
Monday, October 13, 2025 • Duration 56:58
Legendary dolphin trainer turned anti-captivity icon Ric O’Barry on his journey from catching and training Flipper to going to jail to save dolphins. Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young dives into The Dolphin Project, the making of the Academy Award-winning documentary The Cove and his upcoming fundraiser in Victoria, BC. “I started sympathizing with the dolphins and I could see things from their point of view. And I still do, I still do that. Every decision I make regarding whatever I get into a situation, I don’t know exactly what to do, I try and see it from their perspective and make decisions based on that. I’ve always done that. We still do that.” – Ric O’Barry
3:12 “I’m always either underwater, in a boat or in an airplane.” Working on a dolphin sanctuary in Italy.
4:34 The first dolphin sanctuary and the evolution of sanctuaries… with the help of Stephen Stills (from Crosby, Stills & Nash)
7:00 On not loving Marineland (in Canada) “Protesting works… This is a multi-billion dollar industry. They have the money to clean up their own mess, but they never do that.”
Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.
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Misty MacDuffee on the Southern Resident Orcas and the Threat of Bright Extinction
Season 4 · Episode 91
Monday, September 29, 2025 • Duration 58:16
Salmon expert Misty MacDuffee on shrinking salmon, damn dams and what needs to be done NOW to save the iconic southern resident orcas. Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young dives into the Raincoast Conservation Foundation’s report on what needs to be done to save these whales with one of the report’s authors.
2:34 Salmon expert Misty MacDuffee on the report from 31 experts on how to save the southern resident orcas from “bright extinction.” This population will be fully extinct within the next 100 years if we don’t turn this situation around.
6:50 The importance of saving BC’s iconic population so we can still be celebrating them a century from now. This population will be fully extinct within the next 100 years if we don’t turn this situation around.
8:04 What can be done to save the southern resident orcas? “These whales are not getting enough to eat.” Hatchery fish are NOT the answer.
11:00 “The solutions that government has focused on have not helped the whales and in some cases have perpetuated the problem that’s facing the whales.”
14:12 How much are governments really spending to save the orcas?
Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.
Misty MacDuffee
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The Killer Whale That Changed the World
Season 4 · Episode 90
Wednesday, July 16, 2025 • Duration 59:16
The Killer Whale That Changed the World – the story of Moby Doll and the accidental orca capture that changed everything between humans and orcas – was created for CBC Radio’s Ideas by Skaana host, Mark Leiren-Young and produced by Yvonne Gall. It originally aired on CBC in 2013, won the Jack Webster Award for Best Radio Documentary and sparked the award-winning book, The Killer Whale Who Changed the World, which is currently being adapted as a feature documentary. This episode is being shared with the permission of CBC Radio.
One of the goals of this audio documentary was to capture the stories of the men who remembered Moby Doll while they were still able to share them. Four of the people interviewed here – Dr. Murray Newman, Dr. Patrick McGeer, Christopher “Gus” Angus and Kenneth “Gilbey” Hewlett are no longer with us. We are sharing this in their memory.
Other featured interviews:
Dr. John Ford joined Fisheries and Oceans Canada in 2001 as the head of the Cetacean Research Program at the Pacific Biological Station in Nanaimo, BC. He is also an Adjunct Professor in the Department of Zoology and the Fisheries Centre, University of British Columbia. Dr. Ford has been involved in field studies on cetaceans in western Canadian waters since 1977. In recent years, his research has focused on the conservation status of cetaceans listed under Canada’s Species-at-Risk Act and has involved population abundance estimation and development of acoustic tools for determining seasonal abundance of cetaceans in remote offshore waters.
Dr. Charlotte Epstein is Assistant Professor in the Department of Government and International Relations at the University of Sydney. She is the author of The Power of Words in International Relations: Birth of An Anti-Whaling Discourse.
Richard Blagborne was the convener of the 2013 Moby Doll Orca Symposium: Reflections for Change on Saturna Island. Blagborne initiated and led the restoration of the Fog Alarm Building which was scheduled for demolition as part of federal lighthouse de-staffing programs. The building has been completely renovated and now houses storyboards, a media centre, historical photos and written archives charting the island’s history.
Shownotes:
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The Killer Whale Who Changed the World
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Mark Leiren-Young – Sharks Forever and Jaws Forever?
Season 4 · Episode 89
Wednesday, July 2, 2025 • Duration 16:02
Mark Leiren-Young reads the chapter about Jaws vs. shark from his award-winning book, Sharks Forever. Years after the movie based on his book was one of the biggest hits in the world, Peter Benchley said that in a new version of Jaws, the shark wouldn’t be the monster. “The shark in an updated Jaws could not be the villain; it would have to be written as the victim, for, worldwide, sharks are much more the oppressed than the oppressors.”
Excerpt From
Sharks Forever
Mark Leiren-Young
This material may be protected by copyright.
3:31 The start of the chapter on Jaws from Mark’s book Sharks Forever. Chapter 9 – Great White Lies.
4:45 A bounty for anyone who could prove they had been bitten by a shark.
Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.
Sharks Forever
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David Shiffman – On 50 Years of Jaws vs. Sharks
Season 4 · Episode 88
Wednesday, June 18, 2025 • Duration 44:15
David Shiffman (author of Why Sharks Matter) on how Jaws changed the world for sharks, humans and movies… how the fear of sharks led to so many species being threatened and endangered and why you should be suspicious of “shark experts.” “More people in a typical year are bitten by other people in the New York City subway system than are bitten by sharks in the whole world… More people die falling off cliffs trying to take a scenery selfie than are killed by sharks in a typical year.”
Yesterday I was interviewed for Mark Leiren-Young‘s podcast- I’ll share the whole episode when it’s out- and he asked me an interesting question. If there’s so much nonsense out there about sharks, how do I choose when to engage in mythbusting vs. when to let it go?
Shownotes:
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Shane Gero
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Shane Gero – Speaking to Sperm Whales, the Power of Storytelling and Why All Science is Political
Season 4 · Episode 87
Thursday, June 5, 2025 • Duration 01:05:10
Sperm whale expert Shane Gero on his whale family in Dominica, the power of storytelling and the culture, codas and language of sperm whales. Also… why all science is political. “Science is inherently political… until the sperm whales are able to speak for themselves, someone has to be their advocate… conservation is inherently a human behavioural change.”
Made in Canada, eh 🍁
Shownotes:
2:40 On his whale family and two decades of working with sperm whales.
4:30 On falling for whales.
6:30 What we know… Like… “They have the biggest brain to ever exist.” And studying sperm whales as individuals.
9:48 The power of storytelling. “No matter how much science we could do, no matter how innovative the research we were doing, the story-telling around what’s going on with the lives of these families was so powerful.”
11:54 Watching the birth of a sperm whale. “It was a very humbling day.”
14:43 “I think we do a great disservice when we centre humans.”
18:20 Redefining the meaning of “culture” and “language” to avoid including non-human animals.
20:33 Codas, clicks and communication.
26:47 What makes sperm whale brains unique and the theory of mind.
29:19 The sperm whale, Canopener, figuring out how Shane’s research works.
31:04 The story of spermaceti.
33:15 “Sperm whales powered human culture, long before we realized that sperm whales had culture themselves.”
34:00 The first time he saw a whale.
35:34 And the first time he saw a sperm whale. “Every human should have to go out and experience a 360-degree horizon… it’s very humbling.”
39:20 On the whales’ awareness of us. “We want to study what sperm whales do when sperm whales are being sperm whales… this is their realm.”
Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.
Shane Gero
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Beatrice Frank – On the Power of Positivity and the Georgia Strait Alliance’s Past, Present and Future Fights for the Salish Sea
Season 4 · Episode 86
Friday, May 23, 2025 • Duration 38:17
Beatrice Frank, new(ish) executive director of The Georgia Strait Alliance on the past, present and future of one of the most effective environmental organizations in British Columbia for their 35th anniversary. We talk about fighting threats with awareness – and lawyers – keeping the ocean clean, working with American eco-organizations in the age of Trump and the power of positivity. “We sue the government often… we just want them to be accountable for what they say they will do.”
Made in Canada, eh 🍁
Shownotes:
2:30 Meet Beatrice Frank – the new executive director of the Georgia Strait Alliance.
5:24 On arriving in BC. “Wow. This place with orcas and salmon stewarded by the Coast Salish First Nation is amazing.”
8:48 The GSA turns 35 and the GSA’s journey. “It really has become a powerhouse for the protection of the Salish Sea.” Advocating for southern resident orcas and more. Past and future fights.
10:15 On working with First Nations on stewardship of the land and the water.
12:05 The current major programs… biodiversity, marine planning, education and empowerment.
14:40 Orcas and emotions.
16:36 Legal fights for the Salish Sea – trying to save the orcas and stop Roberts Bank Terminal 2. “We sue the government often… we just want them to be accountable for what they say they will do.”
19:00 Adjusting to the age of Trump. “Our orcas don’t have a passport… we share those species.”
20:12 The importance of American partners in fighting for a thriving Salish Sea.
23:22 “We are rooted in the community… We are the Salish Sea.”
25:52 The biggest challenges in 2025.
27:42 On Clean Marine BC and training boaters on how to use the ocean and deal with whales and the water.
Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.
Beatrice Frank: executive director Georgia Strait Alliance
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Lummi Elder Squil-le-he-le on the Documentary Resident Orca and Her Relatives Beneath the Waves
Season 4 · Episode 85
Thursday, May 8, 2025 • Duration 54:17
Squil-le-he-le – Lummi Elder and matriarch – on her relationship, and her nation’s relationship, with the orca known as Lolita, Tokitae and Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut, the attempt to bring her home and sharing that story in the powerful new documentary Resident Orca. Resident Orca is now available on Crave in Canada and is still in festivals in the USA and around the world. “You can’t separate Canada and the US… “Clean up our beaches. Stop using plastic. Talk to your electeds. And say it’s enough. Breach the dams. It’s enough, stop the pollution. It’s enough, talk to Canada and let’s join forces in saving that body of water that we all treasure and hold sacred. ”
Made in Canada, eh 🍁
Shownotes:
4:43 Meet Skay-la-hay-la – Lummi (Lhaq’temish) elder and martiarch.
5:24 On the naming and renaming of Lolita/Tokitae to Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut
7:00 On being related to the orcas. “Our relatives that live under the waves… We’re related through cosmology.”
9:10 On the “round-up” that almost ended the southern resident orcas.
11:40 “They separated these babies from their mothers and there were several that were killed in the process and the captors didn’t want to count them in their take. So they slit their bellies, filled them with gravel and sunk them.”
14:24 The orcas’ memories of Penn Cove and the orca matriarch, Ocean Sun steering clear. “She never led her people back there to hunt. Ever… Ocean Sun led her people into the cove… and the one day they did ceremony.”
14:30 “They have traditions that mirror the Lhaq’temish people. *
16:32 Orca potlatches. “We mirror each others culture and traditions… they sing, they polatch, they surround in times of sorrow and loss to support the family.”
17:16 The Lhaq’temish take on salmon hats. “What we believe they are doing is they had feasted. That’s their way to share. I’ve had enough. Have some.”
19:20 On getting involved with the documentary: “If you don’t tell the story of her and her sacrifices. How will people know what they’ve done to her and her family.”
Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.
Squil-le-he-le – Lummi Elder and matriarch and executive producer of Resident Orca.
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23:00 On the impact of the vanishing ice and the challenges for bears and their babies.
27:15 Polar bear diets – LIPOVORES! Yep, they are fat-eaters.
31:18 “Their paws are like the size of dinner plates… seeing how massive they are is just incredible.”
33:51 Dancer and polar bear celebrities.
44:26 The discovery of a new polar bear population in Greenland – bears adapting to the changing climate.
12:55 “Sanctuaries are the beginning of the end of this multi-billion dollar industry and they know that. So they’re fighting it.”
20:26 On the impact of The Cove and his new upcoming documentary – Freeing Flipper. “Awareness is the first step. And that’s what these films do. They make people aware.”
24:19 Christmas Day, 1955 – the visit to the aquarium that changed his world. Moving from diving for the navy to diving with dolphins. And capturing dolphins. “When Flipped came along it was like getting on a rocket ship” Living with Flipper. And becoming the first person to train dolphins underwater.
30:00 On thinking like a dolphin: “I started sympathizing with the dolphins and I could see things from their point of view. And I still do, I still do that. Every decision I make regarding whatever I get into a situation, I don’t know exactly what to do, I try and see it from their perspective and make decisions based on that. I’ve always done that. We still do that.”
31:00 On catching and selling dolphins. For $300!
34:20 When one of the Flipper’s died in his arms… “that’s when I went ballistic.” The origins of his activism and civil disobedience. Earth Day, 1970. And going to jail for dolphins.
41:40 On Joni Mitchell , David Crosby and other stars singing for dolphins.
49:40 “At 7:30 I would take the television set, it had about a 300 foot extension cord, and I would take it down to the end of the dock so Flipper could watch Flipper on TV… If they’re really my friend, why am I keeping them in captivity?.”
50:10 The real names of dolphins – the ones they give each other.
52:01 “I’ve had a lifetime of once in a lifetime experiences.”
52:30 On his upcoming fundraising visit to Victoria.
The orca speaking off the top of this episode – and every episode of Skaana – is Moby Doll.
“When you go to Africa, you wanna see the lions and the Serengeti, and when you come to British Columbia, you wanna see the killer whale.” – Murray Newman
Made in Canada, eh 🍁
The Killer Whale Who Changed the World audiobook on Audible and Spotify
5:29 Jersey Shore sharks. Or sea turtles? The original killer great white.
6:04 Shark myths created by Jaws. “The way that the shark behaves in the movie is not the way sharks behave.”
6:30 The terrible and inaccurate “rogue shark” theory.
6:51 The myths of Shark Week.
9:32 Humans against nature – trophy hunters.
11:45 “Years after the movie based on his book was one of the biggest hits in the world, Peter Benchley said that in a new version of Jaws, the shark wouldn’t be the monster. “The shark in an updated Jaws could not be the villain; it would have to be written as the victim, for, worldwide, sharks are much more the oppressed than the oppressors.””
12:57 Sharknados and other fictional shark stories.
If one rando online is the first person I’ve ever heard say something wrong, it’s not common and maybe worth just letting go. If it’s widespread misunderstanding, it’s probably worth trying to address.
2) Is the misunderstanding harmful?
Lots of people believe incorrect things about sharks that don’t make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things, and those are probably not worth the effort to engage.
But some misunderstandings are harmful to conservation.
3) Is the person who is sharing the incorrect information persuadable?
Some people are well-intentioned but uninformed, they really want to help but don’t know how. Some of those people can be reached and taught to share accurate helpful information. That’s worth trying.
4) Is the person who is sharing the incorrect information influential?
If so, it’s worth trying to stop it from getting shared before it becomes a widespread piece of misunderstanding.
And 5) (Which I forgot to say to Mark): Sometimes the world is on fire and I just feel like picking a small fight where I know I’m right and I know I can win.
I do not love this about myself.
2:56 On the 50th anniversary of Jaws. “This summer is making a lot of people feel really old.”
4:25 “Part of the reason Jaws still holds up the way that it does is some mistakes they made during the filming…” The importance of showing the world from the shark’s point of view.
5:40 Sharknado and other shark movies that are unlikely to win Oscars.
6:04 Shark myths created by Jaws. “The way that the shark behaves in the movie is not the way sharks behave.”
7:05 The terrible and inaccurate “rogue shark” theory.
9:00 “It is astronomically unlikely that an individual person will be hurt by a shark… we are better off with healthy shark populations than we are without them.”
9:46 “More people in a typical year are bitten by other people in the New York City subway system than are bitten by sharks in the whole world… More people die falling off cliffs trying to take a scenery selfie than are killed by sharks in a typical year.”
11:05 Sharks vs. “influencers” and “influencers” vs. sharks.
12:48 “Shark expert” is the title Shark Week gives to somebody without any actual credentials.
15:13 Taking on the trolls and why it matters.
17:17 Bull%$@! about bull sharks.
18:07 How Shark Week launched Megalodon-mania and convinced conspiracy theories about an exintinct species. Also… getting naked with sharks… and Jackasses vs. sharks.
22:45 There are no Sharknadoes but a shark did fall from the sky.
23:28 Jaws author Peter Benchley tried to save the sharks. It’s only a friggin’ movie!
24:32 The generation of scientists inspired by Richard Dreyfuss in Jaws.
26:05 “If you have been in the water, in the ocean, there has been a shark not that far from you and it knew you were there. And you probably didn’t see it.”
28:05 “In more than a third of reported “shark attacks” in Australia the shark didn’t physically touch the human at all. It swam near them in a way the person thought was threatening.”
29:14 “We have lost half of all sharks – individual sharks – since the 1970s. These are animals that have survived five mass extinction events. These are animals that were swimming in the ocean before we had trees on land, before Saturn had rings. And we’ve lost half of them since my parents graduated from college. It’s really staggering. And Jaws did not cause it, but Jaws made it harder to stop.”
30:30 The Jaws Effect and how fiction influences fact.
37:40 “It’s not very many species of sharks that have ever killed a person.”
40:45 “So the most important thing you need to know about sharks is that they’re awesome and we’re learning new stuff about them all the time.”
41:42 “These animals are living their lives in rich, complex lives that we don’t even understand yet.”
42:07 Why all science is political and fighting science denialism. “Being a scientist means taking sides.”
44:42 “Science is inherently political… until the sperm whales are able to speak for themselves, someone has to be their advocate… conservation is inherently a human behavioural change.”
48:08 On getting biodiversity to recognize cultural diversity.
51:32 On the importance of names. “When we give them a name we don’t do that lightly… we treat them as individual because they are.” And some names that they never imagined would stick… like Fruit Salad.
58:35 What whaling was like. “We killed something like three-quarters of the sperm whales that were out there.”
100:31 “We think the biblical Leviathan was probably describing a sperm whale.”
1:02:55 On what he has learned from sperm whales. “They, as individuals and families, have fundamentally changed the path of my life… Trying to understand what it meant to be a whale has helped me be a better person… They remind us about what is fundamentally important.”
22:53 Squil-le-he-le on her journey to bring Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut home and becoming involved with the documentary, Resident Orca.
24:09 On the Lummi Nation stepping in to bring Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut home. “It was all led by culture, spirit and tradition.”
26:26 “The first time I saw qwe ‘lhol mechen ”
26:58 “The first time I saw her (Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut) was heart-breaking. She had no spirit left.”
29:20 On drumming to Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut. “She felt the healing. She accepted and welcomed the healing.”
31:31 On singing with Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut. “Trainers were crying… “Every week I would call. How’s my relative? How’s she doing?”
33:07 On her connection to Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut. “We were one.”
34:20 On moments that aren’t in the documentary – like talking with Sk’aliCh’elh-tenaut’s long-time companion – a whitesided dolphin.
38:03 On the Lummi talking with orcas/qw’e lh’ol mechen.
43:15 On how to help the orca in the Salish Sea. Breach the dams!
46:50 Why people need to see Resident Orca.
50:35 “You can’t separate Canada and the US… “Clean up our beaches. Stop using plastic. Talk to your electeds. And say it’s enough. Breach the dramas. It’s enough, stop the pollution. It’s enough, talk to Canada and let’s join forces in saving that body of water that we all treasure and hold sacred. ”
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