Seen Out Loud – Details, episodes & analysis

Sarah Winograd’s journey as a “professional volunteer” led to the realization that poverty was a driving factor in the child removals in the families she was working with. See how Sarah mobilized her community to address family poverty to help families stay together. Through the Together for Families program, Sarah lives out her vision of supporting families by helping them meet basic needs.
Show Notes
00:00:30  | Matt opens this episode reflecting on the child welfare system’s association between poverty and neglect

00:01:10  | Meet Sarah Winograd: Program Manager for Together for Families, Advocates for Children, and an adoptive mom.

00:05:05  | Back in the U.S. as an adult, Sarah dedicated herself to volunteering where she would begin spending a lot of her time working with youth formerly in foster care in New York and later in Georgia.

00:06:45  | Sarah talks about the first case she worked on as a CASA volunteer in Georgia.

00:10:37  | Who was representing and supporting the mom in Sarah’s case? 

00:11:28  | Sarah explains the “ah-ha” moment she experienced while talking to one of the children in the family. This helped her fill in gaps that were missing from the family’s case file.

00:15:20  | Matt and Sarah discuss a shift in thinking around the reason Sarah became a CASA volunteer—from helping kids to helping the whole family. 

00:17:38  | Sarah explains some of the support she provided to the family while staying within the boundaries of her role as a CASA volunteer.

00:20:37  | Sarah shares how she received the reputation for the "resource queen” by helping families not on her case load meet their basic needs and stay in-tact.

00:22:59  | Sarah shares her findings  on poverty as a driver of child welfare involvements, as well as how her colleagues felt about the realities of the families they served.

00:25:10  | Sarah talks about the conversation with her CASA supervisor.

00:30:54  | Matt reflects on the punitive structure of the child welfare system and Sarah’s approach to seeing families for their strengths and with empathy, rather than defining them by their circumstances.

00:32:14  | What’s next for Sarah after CASA? 

00:41:14  | Sarah’s vision of what’s next for the Together for Families program.

00:44:40  | Advice for people seeing the same issues in their community who want to address the needs of families.

00:45:53  | Final thoughts from Matt Anderson.

Resources
Together for Families | Advocates for Children 

Georgia ranks 38th in the Nation for Child and Family Well-Being | Georgia Family Connection Partnership 

One promise became a lifelong mission for this Atlanta family advocate | CBS46 

Cobb County, GA Child Welfare Stats | Fostering Court Improvement 

A Key Connection: Economic Stability and Family Well-being | Chapin Hall at the University of Chicago 

Child Welfare: Purposes, Federal Programs, and Funding | Congressional Research Service Reports 

Child Welfare Financing SFY 2018: A survey of federal, state, and local expenditures | Child Trends 

Cherie Craft, the founding CEO and Executive Director of Smart from the Start, talks about her organization’s unique approach to engaging communities and addressing conditions to enhance child and family well-being. Cherie references a previous episode of Seen Out Loud with Matthew Jackson to explain how Smart from the Start builds trust with families. Cherie also offers advice for other organizational leaders on relationship building, reducing recidivism rates, and incorporating social justice into community work.

00:00:23  | Matt recaps the last episode S2, E5: The Impact of Community Conditions with Matthew Jackson

00:02:36  | What is Smart from the Start and what are they all about?

00:07:39  | What is Cherie’s “secret sauce” to building trust with families?   

00:08:52  | Why don’t families trust social workers and service-providing organizations that come into communities?

00:10:14  | Cherie shares how Smart from the Start operates

00:13:03  | Cherie talks about how she saw Matthew when he first approached her at Smart from the Start.   

00:18:00  | Cherie talks about baking a strengths-based approach to seeing families into Smart from the Start’s culture.

00:20:10  | Matt and Cherie recall a story Matthew shared in S2, E5: The Impact of Community Conditions with Matthew Jackson

00:25:27  | Matt asks Cherie about what happens when something her team vouches for doesn’t come to fruition. 

00:29:06  | Matt asks Cherie how Smart from the Start responds to skeptics of her organization.

00:33:11  | Cherie shares more about her origin story.

00:36:44  | Cherie shares how her organization’s foundation impacts the recidivism rate for fully engaged families in organizational programs.

00:39:50  | Cherie explains Smart from the Start’s intentional approach to addressing systemic issues impacting families and the new program, Justice 4.

00:47:22  | Matt, an organizational leader at Children’s Home Society of N.C. and the Institute for Family asks advice from Cherie for leaders like him that feel like they don’t have relatable stories to use as building blocks when connecting with families. 

00:49:12  | Final thoughts from host Matt Anderson. 

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Brett and Jessica Crisp have been married for over a decade and have a 9-year-old adopted son. They served as licensed foster parents with Children’s Home Society of North Carolina from 2016 to 2020. Through their experiences as adoptive parents and former foster parents, they have become advocates for reunification, as well as parents and foster parents working together.

SHOW NOTES
00:01:25  | How do children in foster care bond with foster parents?   

00:03:38  | Hear from the Crisps’ about the first visitation with London’s parents as they recall seeing their joy in seeing their daughter, but also fear of letting their guards down. 
 
00:08:28  | At what point did the Crisps’ relationship with London’s parents take a turn?
 
00:19:00  | As London’s parents and the Crisps’ relationship improved over time, both families found themselves having a deep connection.

00:21:31  | The court issues a continuance on London’s case for an additional three months after a 14-month separation.

00:23:27  | How can foster care families advocate for birth parents and families?

00:28:08  | London’s case is suddenly dropped and the Crisps are told that within a day, she needs to go home to her birth parents.

00:34:04  | Shortly after London reunified with her birth family, her parents reach out to the Crisps to stay connected. 

00:39:15  | What do the Crisps want people to learn and take away from their story? 
 
RESOURCES

1. Growing Families through Foster Care to Permanency | Children’s Home Society of North Carolina 
2. Working With the Courts for Permanency | Child Welfare Information Gateway 
3. Birth Parent/Foster Parent Relationships to Support Family Reunification | Child Welfare Information Gateway  

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Hear what life was like for Jaquia Wilson, the youngest of nine children, who went from growing up with a loving mother in the Bronx to aging out of foster care without a support system. Jaquia demonstrates resilience through a series of tragedies, resulting in her entering foster care as a teenager. With a little help from a caring social worker, Jaquia’s fighting spirit leads her to college and, now, advocacy work for youth in care. 

Show Notes:
00:01:05  | Meet Jaquia Wilson as she shares stories from her childhood memories in Bronx, New York.
 
00:09:10  | “I didn’t know what to do,” says Jaquia, “I was 15 [years old] and my mom had just passed. My family had to figure out what to do with a 15-year-old that was expecting.”

00:10:54  | What is it like to be a pregnant teen? Hear from Jaquia as she describes the array of emotions she experienced. 
 
00:13:00  | What happens when a teen like Jaquia enters the foster care system in North Carolina?

00:20:32  | Who were the people in Jaquia’s life during her teenage years in foster care?   “It’s a little bit like a revolving door, I feel like,” says Jaquia. 
   
00:26:13  | Jaquia shares where she drew strength to continue making steps towards independence and success after aging out of foster care.

00:28:01  | Life after foster care: At 17 years old, Jaquia heads to college, but runs into unforeseen roadblocks with housing that she was prepared for.

00:34:17  | Jaquia deep dives into her vision for foster care and shares what she wants youth in care to experience, and answers insight about what she aims to help create.

00:34:54  | Matt shares his final thoughts. 

Resources: 

Judicial Bypass Procedures: Undue Burdens for Young People Seeking Safe Abortion Care | Advocates for Youth 

What happens to kids who age out of foster care | House of Providence 

North Carolina LINKS Program |NC DHHS 

Jaquia Wilson, Webinar Host | The Unlearning of Child Welfare: Webinar Series 

Written by Jaquia Wilson: Redefining "Child Welfare Expert" | Children’s Bureau Express  

How the Child Welfare System Made Me Prioritize Education Over Myself | The Imprint 

Support Services for Youth in Transition: Housing | Child Welfare Information Gateway

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Hear from Alise Morrissey about the impacts of individuals—a volunteer, a judge, an attorney, and a program leader—who offered glimmers of hope by seeing her for who she was instead of her circumstances. Alise tells her story of going from straight-A student to giving birth amidst a prison sentence. She reveals how her faith, the people who showed her kindness, and the determination of being there for her child led to recovery from substance use disorder and reunification with her daughter.

Show Notes
00:00:55  | Meet Alise Morrissey and hear her story from formative years to young adulthood where Alise recalls how her mom was her biggest cheerleader.

00:02:55  | Alise shares how she started to feel angry and rebel in her preteen years.

00:09:00  | What supports are offered to young Alise when she finds out she is expecting while incarcerated in the short term?   

00:12:30  | What happens when pregnant women with substance use disorder aren’t met with empathy and understanding over judgement?

00:15:30  | Hear from Alise on how one inspiring person had a profound impact on her spirituality and life.

00:21:02  | As an indigent inmate and while her daughter is a few months old, Alise describes writing 60-70 kites or messages requesting to learn more about her case and find out what’s happening with her child.

00:23:40  | Alise describes being met where she was, as one attorney fought on her behalf and on behalf of her baby.

00:24:30  | Alise describes meeting a CASA advocate that “saw beyond the yuck,” and decided that in order to support Alise’s child she had to get to know the birth parent. 
 
00:26:40  | Alise describes the effects of having two voices follow her through treatment.
 
00:30:55  | What happens when a birth parent gets to connect with the foster family?
 
00:33:40  | Hear from Alise on why professionals should embrace the messiness of co-parenting.
 
00:35:34  | What is the “Parent to Parent” program?
 
00:41:40  | Advice from Alise on how to communicate with skeptics about families affected by the child welfare system.
 
00:44:00  | Final thoughts from Matt.

Resources

Supporting Young Parents: State and local examples | Child Welfare Information Gateway 

Supporting Children and Families Affected by Parental Incarceration | Child Welfare Information Gateway 

King County’s Parents for Parents program  

Nacy Roberts-Brown, Former Director of Catalyst for Kids, Washington 

Transforming Hearts and Minds Through Valuing Parent Voice | Children's Bureau Express


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Systems change when people change. And people change through stories. Dr. Bruce Perry candidly offers compelling insights on the power and science of storytelling. This episode demonstrates how some of the most important things we can do to improve family well-being and change systems starts with listening.

Show Notes: 
01:45  | Matt shares his origin story as a caseworker and shares what happened when he stepped back from his social worker checklist and listened to someone’s story.

07:00  | What are the origins of the book title “What Happened to You?” as it relates to Dr. Bruce Perry’s work? 

09:10  | How can we alter the trajectory of the current child welfare system?

10:12  | What happens when practitioners ask families “What happened to you,” versus “What’s wrong with you?" Dr. Bruce Perry references how this question shift derived from Dr. Sandra Bloom’s work on The Sanctuary Model.

12:15 | Matt shares, “I think that if we’re worried about kids who are coming into CPS and we’re worried about their safety (which we are), then we have to be worried about their parents, their families, and their communities, too.”

13:00  | Dr. Bruce Perry on his decision to use storytelling in his work.

14:10  | Dr. Bruce Perry shares his insights on the impact of storytelling on a listener. 

17:48  | Matt shares an audio clip from Episode 2 “LOOKING FOR THAT WARM HUG ALL MY LIFE” with Shrounda Selivanoff.

19:50  | Dr. Bruce Perry recalls his book with Oprah where she describes her experience of being seen and preludes stories from a documentary he’s working on.

21:20  | How can people create powerful connections and open brave spaces for deep understanding? 

22:45  | Dr. Bruce Perry asks, “how do we make it easier for our front-line people to be the providers of [full, present] moments.”

25:50  | Assessing and working towards relational wealth versus relational poverty.

26:45  | What is “traumatic wisdom” and where does it come from?

30:12  | Dr. Bruce Perry offers advice to organizations and systems on chasing change.

32:10 | Matt shares final thoughts.

Resources:
Documentary Film “From Place to Place” | Institute for Family 

EP 66: Social Workers in Film | NASW Social Work Talks Podcast 

Dr. Bruce Perry’s website 

Book: What Happened to You? Conversations on Trauma, Resilience, and Healing | Authors: Oprah Winfrey and Bruce D. Perry, M.D., Ph.D. 

Oprah Winfrey and Dr. Bruce Perry on 60 Minutes: Treating childhood trauma | CBS News 

Resources | The National Child Traumatic Stress Network

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Shrounda Selivanoff takes us on a journey from childhood to motherhood, including a head-on collision with the child welfare system. Hear from Shrounda on how being seen and acknowledged for who she was changed her life forever. Shrounda is a passionate mother, kinship caregiver, and parent ally who inspires and helps other parents who experience the system through her work as public policy director at Children’s Home Society of Washington. 

Show Notes: 

0:50  | Meet Shrounda Selivanoff, who talks about the result of growing up in an isolated, overburdened family. 

4:45   | Shrounda shares that school was her haven and that at 13 years old, a newfound friend offered to help in her moment of need. 

6:08  | The beginnings of motherhood and battling substance use disorder. 

20:02   | Hear from Shrounda how being seen and acknowledged for who she was changed her life forever. 

22:14   | Shrounda describes how stepping into being loved for exactly who she is and not feeling the need to be something else helped her change the direction of her life. 

33:30   | A new kind of warm hug with King, grandson, and Alexis, daughter.  

34:32   | As a mom, professional, and advocate for children and families, Shrounda says “My story is your story. We’re in this together.” 

35:40  | Matt and Shrounda share final thoughts. 

Resources: 

Kinship Care Resources | Child Information Gateway

Children's Home Society of Washington

Shrounda’s Work | In Pursuit of Growing and Healing: Changing Child Welfare 

Shrounda’s Work | Choose Compassion When Supporting Parents

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Spoken word poet, Slam Anderson, and her mom, Lillie Lee-Williams, engage in an emotional conversation demonstrating the strength of family bonds despite a 14-year child welfare-initiated separation. This episode questions what would happen if the child welfare system was designed to support root causes of family stress instead of waiting for late-stage intervention. Plus, Slam recites her spoken word poem “My Need for Change,” detailing her experiences with the system, which Matt Anderson refers to as the “anthem” of the family well-being movement. 

Show Notes: 

0:56  | Meet Slam Anderson, spoken word poet
 
1:08  | Slam recites the first segment of her original poem “My Need for Change.”
 
2:50  | Slam shares insight on life growing up and how her mom poured into Slam and her siblings' lives while struggling to make ends meet.
 
5:00  | Meet Lillie Lee-Williams, Slam’s mom.
 
6:55  | What would’ve helped Lillie’s family?
 
8:26  | What does it feel like to go through a system that isn’t designed to truly listen to what families need? Listen to Lillie’s experience when she asked for help.
 
9:40  | What happened to Slam when she and her siblings were separated from their mother, Lillie? Slam reveals her story and shares the second segment of her poem “My Need for Change.” 
 
16:00  | How does Slam find her love for poetry?
 
17:54  | After 14 years, Slam and Lillie share how reconnecting was emotional and exhilarating.
 
20:05  | The third and final segment of Slam’s spoken word poem “My Need for Change.”
 
21:20  | Matt asks Lillie, “What do you want us to know? What do you want us to do?”
 
23:00  | Matt shares final thoughts. 

Transcript:
View transcript here

Resources: 

Slam works with these organizations to promote self-empowerment and love: Kitchen Table and FosterStrong 

Introduction to Family Well-being: Promoting Child & Family Well-Being | Child Welfare Information Gateway 

Program example of in-home services that build supports for families: CHSNC | Family Preservation Program 

Kinship Care Resources | Child Information Gateway 

Housing Services | Child Welfare Information Gateway 

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Seen Out Loud, formerly Seen and Heard, is a show about disrupting the child welfare system by the simple act of seeing families in their full humanity. Listen to their stories with your host Matt Anderson. Tune in weekly to hear new perspectives and compelling insights that can lead to the radical transformation of America’s foster care system. 

In this episode, Matthew Jackson explains how the community conditions he grew up in influenced the trajectory of his life into adulthood, and the difficulties he experienced with leaving “Jungle” in the past and charting a new path for the betterment of his family. Listen as Matthew shares his story as a single father, passionately invested in his daughter’s life, and how he’s helping other dads, with similar beginnings in Boston, MA and Washington, D.C. 

[Warning: This conversation contains explicit language]

Show Notes
00:00:26  | Matt starts the conversation on what he means by child welfare reform.

00:01:18  | Meet Matthew Jackson.

00:04:17  | Matthew talks about parenting his  10-year-old daughter.

00:06:44  | Matthew’s take on how options presented in his community during his youth strongly impacted the trajectory of his early years into adulthood.

00:09:53  | Matthew explains how baseball provided him and his peers a vision of a way out of his neighborhood and the surrounding circumstances.

00:12:06  | How Matthew arrived at the decision to push his baseball dreams aside and pursue the hustle culture that consumed his community and––one by one––each of his teammates and friends.

00:13:50  | Matthew shares how he received his nickname “Jungle” and how the creation of this persona helped him survive in a community where lives were often cut short.

00:17:22  | Matthew recalls the beginnings of his relationship with his then-girlfriend and eventually becoming a first-time dad. 

00:20:08  | Matthew reflects on the conflict he experienced while wrestling with how he would provide for his family.

00:21:49  | On Halloween 2014, Matthew’s life changed forever–– he describes the events that take place which hurled him into the role of a single father.

00:24:49  | Matthew shares how wrestling with the grief of the loss of his girlfriend, as well as his newfound responsibility as the sole provider for his daughter, brought him to the decision to leave hustling in his past and chart a new path. 

00:27:42  | Matthew explains the difficulties of earning low wages at a retail job and providing for his daughter.

00:31:17  | Matthew shares the impact of the district attorneys on his case postponing his trial and later putting Matthew on probation instead of in jail.

00:35:35  | Matt poses a question to listeners as he reflects on Matthew’s story.

00:36:30  | Matthew shares more on his involvement with Smart from the Start.

00:37:34  | What are some things Matthew is hearing from other dads he works with at Smart from the Start about how they’re viewed and treated as fathers in communities?

00:38:55  | What exactly does Matthew do when working with fathers in the Focusing on Fatherhood program? 

00:41:46  | Matt shares final thoughts

Resources
Smart from the Start
Fatherhood Organizations | Child Welfare Information Gateway

Bonus Content
Photo album

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