The Australian government announces an inquiry into the AWB, with the lawyers hoping to prove the AWB knew it was breaching sanctions. A whistleblower fronts the inquiry to give evidence... in secret. 

Featured:

• Trevor Flugge
• Darryl Hockey
• Michael Long
• Anwar Al-Rawi
• Rod McLeod (voicing Mark Emons) 
• Dan Mullins (voicing lawyer)

Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Saddam Hussein has been found, weapons of mass destruction have not. The reason for the Iraq invasion crumbles, and the world’s attention is turned to corruption in the United Nations Oil For Food Program. The AWB’s dealings in Iraq are about to come under scrutiny from an international investigation. 

Featured:

• Darryl Hockey
• Alexander Downer
• Caroline Overington 
• Mark Pieth 

Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Joey meets a man who investigated ASIO in the 1970s, to find out what made the spy agency vulnerable to being infiltrated by the KGB. ASIO was directed to search for traitors, but the internal investigations were inconclusive.

If you have any feedback or information about this story you can email  secretswekeep@sca.com.au or you could send Joey a letter GPO Box 22, Sydney NSW 2000.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Joey drives into the middle of the desert to find out why Australia became a target for the KGB. He learns that Australia was a bigger player in the Cold War than he’d ever imagined, and how the mole could’ve had access to secrets from its powerful Western allies.

If you have any feedback or information about this story you can email  secretswekeep@sca.com.au or you could send Joey a letter GPO Box 22, Sydney NSW 2000.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Who were the KGB? What was ASIO up against? To help his mole hunt, a former spy takes Joey inside ASIO during the Cold War. 

He points Joey to a KGB spy called Gerontiy Lazovik who may have recruited a mole in Australia. As Joey dives deeper into this story, he begins to suspect there was more than one mole.

If you have any feedback or information about this story you can email  secretswekeep@sca.com.au or you could send Joey a letter GPO Box 22, Sydney NSW 2000.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Three years ago, journalist Joey Watson learnt about the ultimate spy story. During the Cold War, the Australian spy agency ASIO was infiltrated by the enemy - one of their spies turned and began working for the KGB, the Soviet Union’s feared spy agency. They became a mole. 

For decades, the mole's identity remained a mystery and the damage they caused unknown. To uncover the truth, Joey sets out to find them.  

Joey starts by meeting the main suspect who was arrested in the early 1990s and uncovers a much bigger story about secrets and power.

Nest of Traitors: Declassified is a behind-the-scenes peak at what goes into making the podcast series with Joey Watson and Clair Weaver. 

If you have any feedback or information about this story you can email  secretswekeep@sca.com.au or you could send Joey a letter GPO Box 22, Sydney NSW 2000.

Credits:

• Creator and Host - Joey Watson 
• Supervising Producer - Jake Morcom 
• Executive Producer - Ellen Leabeater
• Fact check - Bonnie Lavelle
• Sound design - Nial Fernandes 
• Theme - Matt Nikolic
• With thanks to Clair Weaver, Simon Beaton, Alastair Kirkby, Emma Lancaster and Mike Williams 
• Melanie Withnall - Head of News and Information 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Three years ago, journalist Joey Watson was pulled into the ultimate spy mystery. During the Cold War, the Australian spy agency ASIO was infiltrated by a Soviet mole. For decades the mole's identity was buried and the damage they caused unknown. To uncover the truth, Joey sets out to find the mole. It’s a story about power, national secrets and how countries behave when they think no-one is watching. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Amelia Oberhardt introduces Season 2 of Secrets We Keep - Nest of Traitors. Hosted by Joey Watson, the season investigates another big Australian secret. Launching January 23.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Closed adoptions have affected many Australian families, and no one experience is the same. 

In this episode, you'll hear how forced adoptions have affected people from a new perspective - two adoptees, and one father. 

Lifeline: 13 11 14

Forced Adoption Support Service: 1800 21 03 13

List of organisations that can help

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you or your family have been affected by forced adoption, it can be daunting to start your journey to find information about your history. 

However support is available, and host Amelia Oberhardt speaks to two post adoption support services about how someone can navigate this journey. 

Forced Adoption Support Service: 1800 21 03 13

List of organisations that can help

Adopt Perspective Podcast 

Featured: 

• Charlotte Smith - CEO of Vanish 
• Jo-Ann Sparrow - President of Jigsaw Queensland 
• Rachel Bell - Social Worker, Forced Adoption Support Service 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In the final episode of the season, Amelia Oberhardt reflects on what she's learnt in the series, and confronts one last stigma - her mother's alcohol dependency. 

Support services:

National Alcohol and Other Drug Hotline: 1800 250 015 

Lifeline: 13 11 14

Forced Adoption Support Service: 1800 21 03 13

Featured:

• Jennifer McRae 
• Danae Witherow 
• Professor Dan Lubman - Turning Point 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In researching the series, Amelia Oberhardt heard a shocking story about a Queensland abortion raid that showed another side of how women were treated in Australia’s not too distant past.  

Amelia finds out more about the options women had when faced with an unplanned pregnancy, the road to legalising abortion, and what happened one Monday morning in May 1985. 

Featured:  

• Caroline de Costa – Professor of Obstetrics and Gynaecology of the College of Medicine at James Cook University
• Lorraine Smit – former counsellor and assistant, Children by Choice 
• Judy Petroeschevsky – former counsellor, educator and co-ordinator, Children by Choice
• David Grunmann – Queensland surgeon 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The US invades Iraq, and good old Australia has joined. The Australian wheat men are on the ground a month later, and the secret mission begins – protect Australia’s lucrative wheat market. 

Featured:

• Robin Raphel 
• Trevor Flugge
• Michael Long
• Lieutenant Colonel Paul Wright
• Alexander Downer
• Alan Tracy

Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Leonie Pope was taken from her mother as a baby in 1972, after her mother was coerced into signing forms that gave away her rights. Leonie and her siblings were all taken from their family, and are part of the Stolen Generations.  

Leonie was fostered and adopted to a Welsh family, and spent her childhood on the other side of the world, growing up in Wales. This is Leonie’s story of coming home.  

You’ll also hear from Dr Mary Graham, about her work to change the approach of child welfare agencies in Queensland.  

Gayaa Dhuwi: https://www.gayaadhuwi.org.au/if-you-need-help/ 

A spokesperson for the Mater Hospital said: 'Forced adoptions occurred in Queensland into the 1970s and were usually procured by social workers or departmental officers acting for the State Government, which issued a formal apology for the policy in 2012. Mater fully endorses the apology given by Catholic Health Australia in 2012 for the role that some Catholic hospitals and health services played in this widespread practice.’ The Mater didn't address questions about the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children during the 1940s-1980s.' 

Responding to questions about a redress scheme in Queensland for Stolen Generations survivors, a spokesperson for the Department of Treaty, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Partnerships, Communities and the Arts said: 'The Queensland Government recognises Aboriginal peoples and Torres Strait Islander peoples continue to experience the ongoing impacts of previous State and Commonwealth laws, policies and programs, including in relation to children. The Queensland Government is committed to improving the health and wellbeing outcomes of Aboriginal peoples and Torres Strait Islander peoples who experience disparity. We are doing this by restoring local decision-making authority and establishing place-based partnerships to ensure communities are leading the way as we work to Close the Gap.'

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We’ve been inundated with responses and questions from you, with your stories from the forced adoption era.  

Dr Susan Green is a psychologist and adopted person and speaks to Amelia Oberhardt to answer questions about the psychological impacts of forced adoption.  

We’ll be back to our normal format next week.  

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s a decade this year since Julia Gillard’s apology to those affected by forced adoption, but there’s still unfinished business. Now, it’s the adoptees picking up the baton and carrying on the fight for recognition, redress, and justice.  

Amelia speaks to two adoptees – Jennifer McRae and Danae Witherow – about how being taken from their mothers has affected their lives, and their push for an inquiry in Western Australia. Shakira Ramsdell explains what's happening in Victoria, the one state in the process of setting up a redress scheme. 

Forced Adoption Support Service: 1800 21 03 13

UPDATE: A spokesperson from the WA Department of Communities responded after deadline, writing 'formal integrated birth certificates [are] currently not available' but are being considered. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

At its peak in the early 1970s, almost 200 babies per week were adopted in Australia. It’s impossible to know how many of these adoptions involved coercion, but we do know that it was a time many believed single women were incapable of looking after their children.

In this episode, Amelia Oberhardt looks at how this system was allowed to operate, and what lead to forced adoption ending. 

If you would like to share your story, email secretswekeep@sca.com.au

Forced Adoption Support Service: 1800 21 03 13

Featured:

• Patricia Farrar - Mother, PhD
• Shurlee Swain - Emeritus Professor, Australian Catholic University 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Young, pregnant, unwed. What happened next is one of the most shameful periods in Australian history. Amelia Oberhardt speaks to two women who experienced a forced adoption – a broad term used to describe the various ways women were coerced into giving up their baby.  

Di Sheehan and Lily Arthur explain how stigma and a flawed system altered the course of their lives. 

If you would like to share your story, email secretswekeep@sca.com.au

Forced Adoption Support Service: 1800 21 03 13

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Amelia Oberhardt flies to Cairns to meet the man in the photo, hoping to finally get the answer to a question that has haunted her for over a decade. Who is the baby in the photo?  

Knowing what happened to her mum, Amelia feels more resolve than ever to tell the stories of other women from her mother’s generation.  

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In the aftermath of seeing the photo at the wake, Amelia Oberhardt is on a search to find the man in the photo. Her pursuit leads her down a rabbit hole, into the world of 1960s and 1970s Australia, and the realities of how women were treated in this era.  

And then, a new avenue provides new clues in the search for Michael.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Standing at her mother’s wake, journalist Amelia Oberhardt is confronted with a photo she’s never seen before - her mum Cecelia as a teenager wearing a wedding ring, accompanied by an unknown husband and cradling an unfamiliar baby.  

Immediately, Amelia begins to ask questions. Who is this man? Who is this baby? And does this photo explain Ceceila’s untimely death?  

Credits:

• Creator and Host - Amelia Oberhardt  
• Producer - Jake Morcom  
• Fact check - Bension Siebert 
• Sound design and mix - Nial Fernandes  
• Executive Producer - Ellen Leabeater  
• With assistance from Clair Weaver, Joey Watson, Jessica Lukjanow, Tara Cassidy and James Royce 
• Natasha Jobson is our Head of News Ops, and Melanie Withnall is Head of News and Information  

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The drums of war are beating, and the Australian Wheat Board’s multimillion-dollar trade with Iraq is at risk. Lucky for them, powerful sources promise to keep the AWB informed of any signs of war, while the public hears something different.  

Featured:

• Trevor Flugge
• Darryl Hockey
• Alexander Downer
• Anwar Al-Rawi
• Michael Long

Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How did the Australian Wheat Board (AWB) fund Saddam Hussein’s regime? Richard Baker speaks with Michael Long and Trevor Flugge from the Australian Wheat Board (AWB) to find out how Australia built a strong trade relationship with Iraq.

Featured:

• Anwar Al-Rawi
• Maitham Al-alyawy
• Michael Long
• Trevor Flugge

Get in contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In the lead up to the Iraq War, the Australian Wheat Board (AWB), gave $300 million in illicit funds to Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. Journalist Richard Baker meets Trevor Flugge, the AWB’s chairman who went on to be the poster boy for the corruption scandal, thanks to a leaked photo.  

Featured:

• Trevor Flugge

Get in contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au

Credits:

• Creator and Host - Richard Baker 
• Producers - Alastair Kirkby and Joey Watson 
• Sound design and mix Kyle Hopkins
• Fact checking - Madeline Larsen, Holly Mitchell, Bonnie Lavelle, and Michaela Savage 
• Production assistance - Kelli Foulstone 
• Executive Producer - Ellen Leabeater
• With thanks to Clair Weaver and Jake Morcom
• Theme music - Lem Zakharia
• Story consultant - Kate Cole-Adams 
• Head of News and Information - Melanie Withnall  

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s Australia’s biggest corruption scandal: $300 million funnelled to a notorious dictator via dodgy wheat contracts in the lead up to the Iraq War.   

Award-winning journalist Richard Baker takes you inside the scandal, with the help of three wheat salesmen caught in the middle of extraordinary world events. Were they cowboys who pocketed millions for their company? Scapegoats for a government stuff up? Or something in between...  

Secrets We Keep: Baghdad Nights launches August 6.  

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Joey travels to Melbourne to try and meet a living mole suspect to finally get some answers.

If you have any feedback or information about this story you can email secretswekeep@sca.com.au or you could send Joey a letter GPO Box 22, Sydney NSW 2000.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A KGB defector directs Joey towards a former British politician. Joey investigates and finds the names of four potential moles who operated inside ASIO during the Cold War. He begins searching for the four suspects. 

If you have any feedback or information about this story you can email  secretswekeep@sca.com.au or you could send Joey a letter GPO Box 22, Sydney NSW 2000.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A rendezvous leads Joey to an apartment where a source tells him that more information about the suspected moles might lie in a top secret government report. When he realises only the Prime Minister’s office can authorise the report to be released, Joey takes his questions all the way to the top.

If you have any feedback or information about this story you can email  secretswekeep@sca.com.au or you could send Joey a letter GPO Box 22, Sydney NSW 2000.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Cole inquiry recommends the AWB be investigated, and the Australian Federal Police set up a taskforce. Richard Baker speaks to former AFP officer Ross Fusca and finds out the taskforce mysteriously disappeared. The corporate regulator, ASIC, also attempts to hold the wheat men to account. 

Featured:

• Darryl Hockey
• Ross Fusca
• Michael Long
• Trevor Flugge
• Rod McLeod (voicing Mark Emons) 
• Dan Mullins (voicing lawyer)

Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s Trevor Flugge and Michael Long’s turn in the witness box, though it couldn’t have come at a worse time. The media is fixated on photos of the pair in Baghdad holding guns, looking like cavalier cowboys. But they won’t be the only powerful men called to give evidence.  

Featured:

• Trevor Flugge
• Michael Long
• Nonee Walsh
• Kelvin Thomson
• Alexander Downer
• Darryl Hockey

Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Richard Baker interviews former Prime Minister John Howard, to find out why Australia went into the Iraq War, and ask how much his government knew about the AWB’s dealings.  

Featured:

• John Howard
• Caroline Overington 
• Alexander Downer
• Trevor Flugge

Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In December 2005, Richard Baker published a story about an obscure oil company called Tigris Petroleum, and its ties to Iraq. A few weeks later, Tigris would be linked to the AWB at the Cole inquiry. In this bonus episode, Richard revisits the story, and finally gets some key documents about Tigris released. 

Featured:

• Michael Long
• Alexander Downer
• Ross Fusca

Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The end of the world is coming for members of a Geelong Church. It’s been looming for over 50 years. And only the chosen few will be saved. 

Follow investigative journalist Richard Baker as he returns to his home town to investigate one of Australia’s most hardline Pentecostal churches and the man who led it. 

This series goes deep inside the secretive group and the disturbing doctrine of Pastor Noel Hollins.  

Richard Baker has received hundreds of hours of audio recordings that reveal the inner teachings of the doomsday group. He speaks to ex-members who have managed to escape, many who are sharing their stories for the first time. 

They speak of a brutal place where men must be obeyed, children must be punished and the solution to every problem is to pray harder. 

This special LiSTNR nine part investigation uncovers how an Australian church, with charity status, has impacted the lives of vulnerable people for generations - without repercussions. 

Until now.   

Listen to the full series now on LiSTNR https://play.listnr.com/podcast/secrets-we-keep

Episode 1 available everywhere December 1.

The interviews in this series were recorded during Pastor Noel Hollins leadership of the Geelong Revival Centre. During production, Pastor Noel died. The experiences and allegations raised do not relate to the current leadership of the GRC

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How did Noel Hollins become the leader of the Geelong Revival Centre? A surprising rebellion is hidden in the history of his long and authoritarian rule.

Richard Baker unearths Noel’s beginnings and explores some of the stranger beliefs the church preaches, including about Pyramids and the British Royal Family’s connection to Geelong.  Even some of the most loyal members of the GRC find themselves questioning the church— with repercussions.

Richard realises that if he really wants to understand Pastor Noel, he needs to find a way to speak to him personally.

The interviews in this series were recorded during Pastor Noel Hollins leadership of the Geelong Revival Centre. During production, Pastor Noel died. The experiences and allegations raised do not relate to the current leadership of the GRC

Do you know more? Get in touch secretswekeep@sca.com.au

Lifeline 13 11 14

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In the beachside town of Geelong, most kids look forward to endless summer days, while children in the Geelong Revival Centre wait for the end of days.

GRC kids are told they’re always being watched. By their parents, their Pastor, and their God. They expect this constant surveillance, and the threat of violence if they step out of line.

Insider recordings of GRC leader Pastor Noel Hollins reveal how he promoted corporal punishment for children, and we learn how church parents were pressured to enforce these rules on their own kids.

Outspoken defectors of the GRC confide in journalist Richard Baker, he hears how from Pastor Noel’s pulpit, children learn to receive the Holy Spirit to keep the devil at bay. And what happens in the church, stays in the church.

The interviews in this series were recorded during Pastor Noel Hollins leadership of the Geelong Revival Centre. During production, Pastor Noel died. The experiences and allegations raised do not relate to the current leadership of the GRC

Do you know more? Get in touch secretswekeep@sca.com.au

Lifeline 13 11 14

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A story too big to ignore is drawing journalist Richard Baker back to his home town of Geelong. 

The chosen people of a strict Pentecostal church claim to have seen miracles happen, and expect to be among the few saved when Armageddon comes. But for some, the Geelong Revival Centre has brought the opposite of salvation. 

Ex-members are speaking out about the pain, control, and heartbreak they’ve endured under the rule of Pastor Noel Hollins, the leader of the church for the past 50 years. Richard meets some of these brave ex-members, many who are speaking out for the first time, as they share what it’s like to grow up in the GRC. 

The interviews in this series were recorded during Pastor Noel Hollins leadership of the Geelong Revival Centre. During production, Pastor Noel died. The experiences and allegations raised do not relate to the current leadership of the GRC 

Do you know more? Get in touch secretswekeep@sca.com.au 

Lifeline 13 11 14 

Credits:

• Producer and reporter - Richard Baker
• Series Producer - Romy Sher
• Assisting producer - Ed Gooden
• Executive Producers - Emma Lancaster and Belinda Lopez
• Sound design - Darcy Thomson
• Fact check - Bension Seibert
• Additional production assistance and theme vocals - Mathew Dwyer.
• Head of Factual and Drama for LiSTNR Original Podcasts - Jennifer Goggin.
• Special thanks to Story consultant Kate Cole Adams

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Journalist Amelia Oberhardt thought she knew her mum, until she was confronted by a photo she’d never seen before at her mother’s wake. Seeing this photo sparks a journey into 1950s-1970s Australia, a time when women were forced to keep secrets. Shotgun marriages, hushed abortions and forced adoptions. It’s the story of a generation of women, who now with their children, are fighting for justice today. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

As a pastor in the church, Steve Mills watched on horrified as church members shunned or delayed medical care because of Pastor Noel Hollins relentless attacks on science and medicine.

When someone is diagnosed with an illness, they are told it is only through prayer—not conventional medicine—that they will be saved. And when people die of treatable illnesses, those left grieving are told they should've “prayed harder”.

From the pulpit Pastor Noel’s teachings empower men in the church to interfere in the private health affairs of others— with sometimes tragic results.

Steve Mills realises he must challenge Pastor Noel directly.

The interviews in this series were recorded during Pastor Noel Hollins leadership of the Geelong Revival Centre. During production, Pastor Noel died. The experiences and allegations raised do not relate to the current leadership of the GRC

Do you know more? Get in touch secretswekeep@sca.com.au

Lifeline 13 11 14

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Geelong Revival Centre wants the women in its church to be straight out of Proverbs 31 in the Bible: virtuous, god-fearing, and dedicating her life to her husband and family— and to expect very little in return.

Unmarried women can’t approach men to date, and they can’t marry without the Pastor’s permission. Those who are seen to fail as virtuous women find themselves interrogated and watched by members of the church. Men are also punished for their transgressions. But women carry the stain.

Meanwhile, former GRC Pastor Steve Mills suggests one way Richard can secure Noel’s attention.

The interviews in this series were recorded during Pastor Noel Hollins leadership of the Geelong Revival Centre. During production, Pastor Noel died. The experiences and allegations raised do not relate to the current leadership of the GRC

Do you know more? Get in touch secretswekeep@sca.com.au

Lifeline 13 11 14

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Inside the Geelong Revival Centre teenagers live a double life. They’re given zero freedoms, like small children, but they’re expected to live an adult life of religious devotion while still growing up.

Pastor Noel Hollins is at war with the internet, pop music, and socialising outside of the church. He labels them as dangerous, but ex-church members say real dangers lie inside the GRC.

Richard Baker uncovers the fallout from growing up inside the GRC, including stories of social ostracism, deep psychological trauma and distressing allegations by abuse victims, who say the church tried to silence them.

The interviews in this series were recorded during Pastor Noel Hollins leadership of the Geelong Revival Centre. During production, Pastor Noel died. The experiences and allegations raised do not relate to the current leadership of the GRC

Do you know more? Get in touch secretswekeep@sca.com.au

Lifeline 13 11 14

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Someone Richard wasn’t sure would ever talk to him is ready to speak.

The church is rocked by the news of Pastor Noel’s death, and questions remain about whether new leadership will create change, or continue with the status quo.

Richard returns to ex-members of the GRC, who have found support in each other and their families after the isolation of leaving the church. They’ve discovered the antidote to the GRC’s abuse of power and violence. It’s love.

The interviews in this series were recorded during Pastor Noel Hollins leadership of the Geelong Revival Centre. During production, Pastor Noel died. The experiences and allegations raised do not relate to the current leadership of the GRC

Do you know more? Get in touch secretswekeep@sca.com.au

Lifeline 13 11 14; 1800 Respect 1800 737 732

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Rumours abound of how Pastor Noel Hollins has used his finances to erase controversies in his church.

Richard Baker’s investigation into how the Geelong Revival Centre maintains a tax-free charity status and where it uses its funds takes him to war-torn Sierra Leone. And former GRC Pastor Steve Mills finally goes head to head with Noel Hollins when he tries to protect members of the church.

The interviews in this series were recorded during Pastor Noel Hollins leadership of the Geelong Revival Centre. During production, Pastor Noel died. The experiences and allegations raised do not relate to the current leadership of the GRC

Do you know more? Get in touch secretswekeep@sca.com.au

Lifeline 13 11 14

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In the Geelong Revival Centre, men are responsible for the entire family’s salvation. If the father does something wrong, his wife and children are at risk of going to hell.

We hear from men who have defied the church’s expectations, despite the threat of physical punishment in this life,and eternal punishment in the next. But those who comply also pay a terrible price for their obedience.

And Richard is one step closer to understanding Pastor Noel Hollins, when he sees a missed call on his phone. Richard calls the Pastor back, and this time he answers.

Please note this episode contains adult themes including descriptions of violence and homophobia, as well as discussions regarding suicide, and harmful drug and alcohol use. Listener discretion is advised.

The interviews in this series were recorded during Pastor Noel Hollins leadership of the Geelong Revival Centre. During production, Pastor Noel died. The experiences and allegations raised do not relate to the current leadership of the GRC

Do you know more? Get in touch secretswekeep@sca.com.au

Lifeline 13 11 14 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Richard gives an update on Todd Hubers plea hearing and shares two more important stories from women who grew up in the Revival Church movement.  

Do you know more? Get in touch secretswekeep@sca.com.au 

Lifeline 13 11 14; 1800 Respect 1800 737 732 

Looking for what to listen to next? Try Crime In Focus: Killer Charm, the story of how a grandmother from suburban Queensland orchestrated the murder of her ex-partner.  

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

DNA is the blueprint for life. While police call it the ‘gold standard’ for forensic identification, transnational corporations see dollar signs. Investigative journalist Claire Aird brings the untold story of how your DNA data can land you in a murder investigation, and how this same data is amassed for power and profit. Should I Spit? is the origin story of the multibillion dollar consumer DNA industry. From police hoping to solve cold murder cases, to one of the most powerful churches in the world, everyone seems to want a piece of what makes you, you. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Although Michael is no longer a murder suspect, his male cousins are scrutinised. The Idaho Falls police are trialing a new technology which predicts someone’s physical appearance based on DNA samples. Michael’s sceptical about the science and fears the police are searching deeper in his family to find Angie’s killer. Episode 6 of Should I Spit? reveals forensic genetic genealogy is enthusiastically embraced by the Australian police with no new privacy legislation and little public scrutiny. 

Lifeline 13 11 14

Beyond Blue 1300 22 4636

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A man called Chris Tapp has been in prison for 20 years for the death of Angie, but his DNA was never found at the crime scene. For Angie’s mother, Carol it doesn’t make sense, and she goes from initially calling for this man’s execution to being his greatest advocate. Carol then pushes the police to use a new technique of forensic genealogy. However, fears this new technique threaten both people’s right to privacy and their presumption of innocence begin to surface.

Meanwhile, Claire discovers that Australia started its own criminal DNA database following a mass DNA screening operation in rural New South Wales.

Lifeline 13 11 14

Beyond Blue 1300 22 4636

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Claire attends RootsTech, the world’s largest family history conference to learn why genealogy is such a popular hobby. There, Claire learns how the LDS Church and Ancestry have amassed billions of records worldwide and turned the mapping of family trees into a multi-billion dollar industry.  Meanwhile, Michael continues to investigate how he’s been caught up in the Angie Dodge investigation, so he travels to Idaho Falls to meet Angie’s mother, Carol. 

Lifeline 13 11 14

Beyond Blue 1300 22 4636

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of Should I spit?, Claire discovers how the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is inextricably linked with the history of genetics and genealogy, through the church’s doctrines and rituals. Michael is shocked to learn that he was identified through a blood sample his father donated at his local church.  Michael’s DNA doesn’t match and is cleared by police, however, he is shaken and wants answers. He can’t understand how the police linked him and his family to Angie’s murder. Michael is approached by a journalist who discovers the Idaho Falls Police had quietly been using a new forensic identification technique called Familial Searching. Using this method, police found Michael based on DNA information stored in a publicly-available genealogy database owned by Ancestry.com.

Lifeline 13 11 14

Beyond Blue 1300 22 4636

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Claire travels to Salt Lake City to meet Michael Usry, a Mississippi man who was implicated in the brutal murder of Idaho Falls teen Angie Dodge years earlier. The police suspect Michael because his name, appearance and age match the confession of a man in jail, believed to be his accomplice. Michael is also a horror filmmaker whose dark film features similarities to Angie’s murder. In episode two of Should I Spit?, The police interrogate Michael and force him to give his DNA under a court order. The police tell Michael they also have DNA evidence which links him to the crime. 

Lifeline 13 11 14

Beyond Blue 1300 22 4636

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