Today on Sauna Talk, we are joined by the dynamic duo of researcher from Emery University, Deanna Kaplan and Roman Palitsky.

Deanna Kaplan

Deanna Kaplan, PhD is a clinical psychologist with expertise in digital health technologies. She has more than a decade of experience using wearable and smartphone-based technologies to study the dynamics of health processes and clinical change during daily life. Her research is grounded in a whole-person (bio-psycho-social-spiritual) model of health, and much of her work focuses on investigating the dynamics of change of integrative interventions, such as psychedelic-assisted therapies and contemplative practices.

Dr. Kaplan is the Director of the Human Experience and Ambulatory Technologies (HEAT) Lab, a multidisciplinary collaboration between the Department of Family and Preventive Medicine and Emory Spiritual Health. More information about the HEAT Lab is here.

Dr. Kaplan is the co-creator and Scientific Director of Fabla, an unlicensed Emory-hosted app for multimodal daily diary and ecological momentary assessment (EMA) research. Fabla is an EMA app that can securely collect voice-recorded, video-recorded , and photographic responses from research participants. More information about Fabla is here.

Dr. Kaplan holds an adjunct appointment in Emory's Department of Psychology and is appointed faculty for several Emory centers, including the Winship Cancer Institute, Emory Spiritual Health (ESH), the Emory Center for Psychedelics and Spirituality (ECPS), and the Advancement of Diagnostics for a Just Society (ADJUST) Center. She also holds an appointment as an adjunct Assistant Professor at Brown University in affiliation with the Center for Digital Health. Dr. Kaplan received her PhD in Clinical Psychology from the University of Arizona, completed her predoctoral clinical internship at the Alpert Medical School of Brown University, and completed a postdoctoral research fellowship at Brown University, where she received an F32 National Research Service Award (NRSA) from the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Her research is funded by the NIH, the Health Resources Services Administration (HRSA), the Georgia Clinical and Translational Science Alliance, the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation, and the Vail Health Foundation among others. She was named as a 2025 Rising Star by Genomics Press for her work in mental health assessment innovation.

Roman Palitsky

Roman Palitsky, MDiv, Ph.D. is Director of Research Projects for Emory Spiritual Health and a Research Psychologist for Emory University School of Medicine. His research program investigates the pathways through which culture and health interact by examining the biological, psychological, and social processes that constitute these pathways. His areas of interest include biopsychosocial determinants in cardiovascular health, chronic pain, and grief. In collaboration with Emory Spiritual Health, his research addresses cultural and existential topics in healthcare such as religion, spirituality, and the way people find meaning in suffering, as they relate to health and illness. His work has also focused on the role of religious and existential worldviews in mindfulness-based interventions, as well as implementation and cultural responsiveness of these interventions.

Dr. Palitsky's academic training includes a PhD in Clinical Psychology from the University of Arizona with a concentration in Behavioral Medicine/Health Psychology, and a Master of Divinity from Harvard University. He completed clinical internship in the behavioral medicine track at Brown University Warren Alpert Medical School, where he also completed a postdoctoral fellowship.

Deanna and Roman were in town attending and speaking at the 2025 SSSR Conference, Society for the Scienific Study of Religion. And as you will hear, we get deep into the spirit of sauna, a spiritual connection we allow ourselves to have, presented to us through the wonderfulness of time on the bench and chilling out in the garden, all misty wet with rain.

I've had the pleasure of sitting on the sauna bench with well over a hundred guests for Sauna Talk. Whether you're listening in your car, out for a walk, or sweating it out on your own bench, my goal as host is to help keep the conversation flowing. Like good löyly, Sauna Talk rises, rolls, and wraps around us—natural, unforced, and alive.

That same spirit was there last night with Chris Heck.

Chris grew up in Northern Minnesota, made his way into engineering school, and deep into his electrical engineering career. He spent a couple years living in Finland—where sauna isn't a luxury, it's an everyday way of life. He travels to Finland regularly working for Wärtsilä a global company with over 10,000 employees, a leader in innovative technologies for the marine and energy markets. Big equipment for ships and energy plants.

We met on a late fall afternoon under cool rain and heavy clouds. The last time I stood in his backyard was several months previous. His sauna was still just a shell—bare studs and roof. Seeing his completed sauna brought a different kind of warmth. Before round one, I snapped a few photos, smiling at the thought that my Sauna Build book helped Chris bring his own health and wellness backyard retreat to life.

Once we settled onto the bench, the talk found its rhythm—thermally aligned in good spirit. Just like a good sauna round, it built naturally, with heat, laughter, and a shared appreciation for how something so simple can feel so good.

As the rounds went on, so did the conversation—about work and life, Finland and Minnesota, and how sauna has a way of connecting it all. That's what Sauna Talk is about: real people who recognize that good heat knows no borders. So grab your towel, pour a little water on the rocks, and join us for this session with Chris Heck.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome back Jon Sabes.

Jon first joined us on Episode #61, and in this conversation, we reconnect on the same sauna bench in Minneapolis. He's in town from Los Angeles for a winter weekend, and we meet after a cross-country ski on Lake Minnetonka—just as the sauna is coming up to temperature.

There's something about talking with authors on the bench. The conversation tends to flow easily—like good steam in the hot room.

Jon's new book, Healthy Wealthy Longevity, is at the center of our discussion. It's a thoughtful guide to living with intention, built on the idea that small, consistent actions shape the bigger picture of our lives.

On the bench, we explore a few key themes from the book:

• How daily habits compound over time—for better or worse
• The connection between physical health, financial well-being, and emotional balance
• The role of intentional living in creating a fulfilling life

Jon shares practical insights drawn from his own experience, along with perspectives that feel both grounded and applicable.

I've also been using Jon's daily journal, which complements the ideas in his book—helping bring structure, clarity, and a sense of gratitude into the everyday.

In addition to his work as an author, Jon serves on the board of the Sauna Research Institute, where there are some exciting developments underway in the world of sauna and health.

From the sauna bench in Minneapolis, please welcome Jon Sabes.

In this episode of Sauna Talk, we get a behind the scenes view of Wisdom Woods, Spooner Wisconsin from Managing Partner Nate Focht.

"Sitting on the sauna bench, everything that comes out of your mind is pure."

– Nate Focht, Managing Partner, Wisdom Woods.

Ever wondered what a $100,000 sauna looks like?  Well, how about we add another zero to that number and double it.  That's what we experience while taking a sauna at Wisdom Woods.  The hot room is symmetric and generously sized 12'x12.'  Thankfully, we made the ceiling 7′ such that the wood burning stove can do its job heating the sauna to good temperatures.

Transom windows to the South and West plus a full glass door give the hot room a light airy, spacious feel.  The "money seat" is in the middle of the West wall, whereupon the sauna bather can gaze through the full glass door, past the full size exterior window in the hallway straight out to the lake: a wide view .  This treatment is example of how we welcome the outside in at the Wisdom Woods spa.  Nature is everywhere.  Nature wins at Wisdom Woods.

The awesomeness of this sauna experience starts to reveal itself once we leave the hot room and make our way down to the sandy beach for a cool lake plunge.  The small lake rarely has boaters.  It is crystal clear: deep and cool.

Heading into cool waters after sauna round at Wisdom Woods

As we gaze back up to the spa, our endorphins start firing and we feel like kids at a playground.  Should we go inside the spa for a drink?  Should we hang out on the deck and relax?

Where should we sit?  The generous deck spreads all the way around the spa building at Wisdom Woods.   Hanging out at the front area, we settle in and look out over the lake.

We can find ourselves walking to the back side of the spa and gazing out over the extensive wetlands, another vista of beauty to reflect upon.

Nate takes us on a virtual tour of Wisdom Woods.  60 acres of trails, adjacent to hundreds more on County land.  Hiking, mountain biking, canoeing, kayaking, fishing, skeet shooting are just a few of the more popular activities at Wisdom Woods.  With an emphasis on wellness and sustainability, guests to Wisdom Woods stumble upon interesting features scattered about the property.  On this episode, we learn about the organic community garden, the bee hives, the new brewery, and the solar panels that provide energy back to the community.

Nate is a Modarem:  A Modern Day Renaissance Man.  He is a nurse in town, a father, a white water kayaker, a canoe guides man, a Hot Shot fireman.  He's jumped out of planes and he can stitch a cut hand.  Nate is the kind of guy you want with you while hiking a remote trail.

Please welcome Nate Focht to Sauna Talk.

"If you haven't experienced the sauna, you have to do it, because it is a wonderful cleansing, spiritual way of life."

-Paster Dave Pearson

We hadn't yet tossed water on the sauna rocks, when I asked him the question:

"So, doing the math, as a Lutheran paster for over 40 years, that's about 2,000 sermons."

"that's about right."

"Have you ever mentioned sauna in one of your sermons?"

"Well, I'm sure I have mentioned sauna in a few of my sermons.  But I will say this: I have composed many of my sermons in the sauna.  There are a lot of "aha" moments that come from the sauna, just from the conversation that is generated here or just personal meditation."

"I think as a minister, that's where the spirit dimension of it (sauna) comes in.  We have such a significant responsibility, spiritually, to protect and to preserve and to use our bodies to the maximum extent that we possibly can."

This is Sauna Talk

I had the great pleasure recently to be sitting on the sauna bench with Paster Dave Pearson and his wife Judy.

Dave and Judy enjoy their sauna ritual pretty much every afternoon along the shores of Isle of Pines on Lake Vermilion in Northern Minnesota.  The setting is idyllic, and familiar to many.  Their wood burning sauna is nestled amongst birch and old growth red and white pines.

A small window in the hot room faces the lake.  A picture perfect scene out to the glistening water that captures Nature with a capital N.  The late afternoon sun enters through the small window, casting light on the sauna rocks, highlighting the soul and essence of the heat, inviting the sauna bather: "yes, toss water right here!".

Outside the deep red clad sauna building, it's just a few steps down to a landing, then a right turn out onto the dock, where a ladder is set up on the end, welcoming the sauna bather into the cool clean water.

Like an Irish couple sitting in front of their Guinness at their favorite pub, Dave and Judy look right at home on their sauna bench.

Paster Pearson is all Scandinavian. Thick white hair, solid blue eyes, and an in shape lanky physique.  Strong boned and muscled, you can just picture him in his favorite flannel work shirt chopping firewood on a late fall afternoon (as the sauna stove heats up for their afternoon sauna).  Sure enough, when asked: "yes, I cut my own firewood, we enjoy the ritual."

In this episode of Sauna Talk, we try to get down to the essence of the health and wellness benefits to the authentic sauna experience.  What's important is that we get a context of sauna being more than a hot room.  We discuss the wood burning aspect to authentic sauna, the connection with our soul and with nature.  And the affirmation of the physical benefits to sauna, as explained in The Metabolic Approach to Cancer, which Paster Peterson had just read that afternoon, and bookmarked in anticipation of our visit.

As Paster Pearson reads the excerpt from the book, I am taken by his strength of voice and being.

Navigating his own confrontation with cancer, I am thinking about all the people and families he surely has guided through their own health experiences.  And now Paster Peterson and his wife are dealing with their own journey.  No chemotherapy or chemicals, but a healthy diet and lifestyle with plenty more saunas and cool lake plunges down their path.

Please join me in welcoming Dave and Judy Pearson to Sauna Talk.

 

Imaging checking out from your day job to hit the road with a mobile sauna.

Imagine being able to:

• Share the appreciation of sauna with others.
• Take a sauna when you want to.
• See the country.

This is the journey native Finn's Risto Sivula and Jouko Sipala will be undertaking soon to help celebrate the centennial year of Finland's independence.  Risto and Jouko are well suited for this duty, and we get to hear why in this episode of Sauna Talk.

Jouko (left) and Risto chilling out between rounds during our Sauna Talk podcast

Folks will be able to experience Finnish Culture and Finnish Achievements along the tour:

Preliminary schedule for traveling sauna tour.

 

Here is the latest draft schedule:
January 13-14 Minneapolis, MN
January 23-24 Finland, MN *
February 8 Kansas City, MO*
February 10-12 Dallas, TX
Feb 24-26 Houston, TX
Feb 28 Albuquerque, NM*
March 1 Phoenix, AZ*
March [ ] Los Angeles, CA *
March 28-29 San Francisco, CA
April [ ] Portland, OR *
April [ ] Astoria, OR *
April 21-23 Seattle, WA*
May/June/July Minnesota – TBD
May 19-21 Chicago, IL
May 30-31 Eagle, WI *
June 1 Cedarburg, WI*
June 2-3 Milwaukee, WI*
June 23-25 Houghton/Hancock, UP MI
August 11-13 Wixom, MI
August 15 Buffalo, NY *
August 18-20 Leominster, MA
September 30 New York, NY
October [ ] Raleigh, NC
October 14 Atlanta, GA
November 18 Lake Worth, FL
December 2 - 6 Washington D.C.

Email is info@travelingsauna.com

facebook/travelingsauna twitter: @travelingsauna

 

I invite you to listen in with Risto and Jouko

There are about 650,000 Finns living in United States, a good chuck living in Minnesota and UP Michigan.  We all want to celebrate Finnish Independence, and bringing people together.  The route has something to do with where the Finnish ambassador will be traveling.  A big shout out to Keith and Mark Raisanen from Tylo/Helo North America, who are building the traveling sauna.  100 Saunas is the goal: 50 saunas for Risto and 50 sauna for Jouko.  Saunatimes is going to help make these 100 saunas happen.  Sauna Talk is conceptual thinking.  You slow down.

Sauna is your time and the way you want to have it.

We respect the solitude of sauna, but Sauna Talk is the ambassador of conversation.  North East Minnesota, home of the Kuuma Stove and good Loyly.  Bringing sauna rocks from Finland.  But you can't use just any rocks for sauna rocks.  Replace your sauna rocks every 5-10 years?  Take a shower before sauna round one?  Yes, it can be a little uncomfortable if your skin is dry, but there are no rules here.

The garden hose shower, simple is better.

What should we use to christen the sauna?  Champagne may not be appropriate. Does anybody have any ideas?  What should the traveling sauna be named?  We'd love to get your thoughts.  The community of authentic sauna enthusiasts are most welcome to come experience the traveling sauna.  Finnish Sauna Society, International Sauna Society, Finnish Embassy in Washington are all supporting the traveling sauna project.

There are more saunas in Finland than there are cars.  The wood burning sauna stove is sustainable.  It is the real sauna.  The atmosphere, the feel, the connection to nature.  And the heat is softer and warmer.  Not as "hard" heat as what comes out of the electric sauna stove.  There is a dream team for social media connectivity to learn about where the traveling sauna will be, and when.  For those wanting to experience the traveling sauna, it's best to reach out to the local Finnish groups in each town and community, who are coordinating the traveling sauna in their respective areas.

Life in United States vs. Europe.

• Driving - Minneapolis/St. Paul spans 40-50 miles.  Lots of driving.  Cities are more concentrated in Europe.
• Health Care, Education, Retirement - you worry about these things in the United States.  Percolating all the time in the back of your head.  Extra pressure.
• Being naked in sauna is a European thing.  American saunas are usually experienced while wearing a bathing suit.

Who would you like to take a sauna with?  How about Urho Kekkonen or Donald Trump.  An opportunity for sitting down and take it easy for awhile.

Favorite part of the sauna session?  The first Loyly.  The flow or not being rushed.  The feeling of humming and mellow.

What is most misunderstood about sauna?  Sauna is how you want to do it.   It's up to you how you want to experience it.  It's all ok.

If you could take a mobile sauna anywhere, where would you choose?  Antartica!  300 degree f. difference in temp.  How about the bottom of the Grand Canyon?  Why not?  And sauna and a lake belong together. Bring the sauna to state parks.   Sauna makes nature pop.

 

 

Have you ever sat on the sauna bench with someone who has created a product that hundreds of millions of people have experienced?

During this episode of Sauna Talk, you will be able to get into the head and mind of serial entrepreneur Scott Olson. Thanks to extended sauna rounds on the bench, we will get deep into Scott's mindset at the time when inline skating was just an idea. We will learn about what it took to turn a vision into a prototype, then into trial, and finally into a product that you either own or have experienced many times. Polyurethane wheels hold an edge, able to push off, like on ice.

The story of Rollerblade is fascinating. What is equally fascinating is Scott Olson's approach to creative thinking: how to turn ideas into marketable products. These tips can apply to inventors, dreamers, or just anyone looking for a more creative approach to their day.  We will learn more about Scott's fitness based products.

You have to have a lot of confidence to walk into a bar wearing a sarong.

Overlying all of this is Scott's appreciation of his place in the world. On the sauna bench, the true nature of someone's character reveals itself. Scott presents no ego. He is a fun guy who is humble, open to input from others, and exhibits a philosophy and joy of life that I hope you appreciate as much as I do.

Dan Baruch has spent most his life researching and developing methods for health, vitality and performance.  After working with people in-person for over 10 years in nutrition, training, bodywork and other disciplines, he began work on a holistic program for absolute beginners to advanced athletics.  This work now exists through www.baruchealth.com an Online Education platform.   BARUCHealth is a growing organization changing the way people think about health.  BARUCHEALTH provides health based education in Nutrition, Movement, Self-Therapy and Meditation.  The programs create a positive total health experience.  BARUCHealth's mission is to inspire and enable people to practice the most effective and natural ways of achieving greater health, vitality and performance.  BARUCHealth thrives on helping people successfully become superior versions of themselves and transforming students into teachers and one day activists.     Dan was born and raised in Plymouth Minnesota and continues to reside in the twin cities.  When Dan is not working on BARUCHealth programs he is developing websites for others via www.thiion.com, playing his guitars or in the sauna.  Dan is married and he and his wife hope to have their "backyard retreat" up and running this summer at their new home.  All are welcome!

As Saunatimes expands into the realm of public sweat bathing, there is no better place to start the journey than in Chicago at Chicago Sweatlodge.  This is a well thought out facility offering an authentic banya experience via two hot rooms:  the wet sauna and the dry sauna.

The stoves are top notch.  5,000 pounds of rocks in each.  Matter of fact, in summer, Chicago Sweatlodge switches out the rocks once a year.  It takes four days for the rocks to cool down, and even then gloves are needed to take out the old rocks.  Imagine the sweat the workers get switching out the rocks at Chicago Sweatlodge.

We experience dense heat at Chicago Sweatlodge.

Bill Trotter and I have a great visit and I am pleased to bring you this episode of Sauna Talk.

In this episode of Sauna Talk, we get to hear why six of the 612 Sauna Society Steering Committee members believe in the sauna experience so deeply.

In Minneapolis, MN, there is a 2,000 member strong sauna community, called the 612 Sauna Society.  For the past couple years, folks have signed up and gathered for sauna sessions in a mobile sauna.  The mobile sauna was hauled around to "residencies."  While the sauna was parked in public places like brew pub parking lots, frozen urban lakeside shorelines, and along the sidewalk of a downtown city street, our king Sauna Meister JP would organize time slots for 612 Sauna Society participants to partake in their own sauna experiences.  Often this involved taking a sauna with folks they didn't know.

People were very receptive to this concept, especially during the frosty cold months December through March.

Now, something more magical and substantial is underway.  The 612 Sauna Society Cooperative.

The 612 Sauna Society is looking for folks to pledge as founding members, volunteer their time to help promote the fundraising campaign, and evangelize with Twittering, shouting and sharing the good vibrations.

Terry is a career handyman and caretaker.

His territory is the islands of Lake Vermilion, Tower, Minnesota.  Terry was brought to Pine Island in diapers.  He endured small stretches of time away from Lake Vermilion, with his family living in Hawaii for a few years and a career with the Duluth News Tribune in Duluth.

Yet, primarily, Terry has spent his life on the lake.  He has been an invaluable help to many dozens of Lake Vermilion cabin owners.  His skills as a handyman and builder are infinite.  He has hands in 40-50 different cabin projects.  He manages 40-50 cabins, which includes such tricky annual work as docks in and out, water systems shut down and opened up, plus the myriad of things that come up from roof leaks, to bees nests, to, well, you name it.

If you've had anything weird go wrong at your home, chances are Terry has encountered exactly this, and many times over

Terry, just like myself, has built about a dozen saunas himself.  I've learned some tricks from him, and i'd like to think he's learned a few tricks from me too.  We have spent many sauna rounds on the bench discussing building nuances.  It's a testament to his passion to the trades, as well as his continued interest in learning and expanding his knowledge base.

One of Terry's favorite lines is: "what one man can do, another can do", from the movie "The Edge".   The movie is about a wealthy businessman, played by Anthony Hopkins, who with his son in law, played by Alec Baldwin, get into a harrowing chase down by a grizzly bear after their single engine airplane has to make an emergency landing in the wilderness..

But Terry isn't worried about bears on Pine Island.

The expression for him is about not being daunted by problems that come up with projects.  And sometimes these projects are overwhelming for the specialists who had initially been called in.  After the "pros" shake their head no and get boated back to the public landing, most often Terry comes in and fixes the problem.  I've seen this first hand.

One of my lines is "getting the right tools and materials to the job site is half the job."  This is hard to dispute for island work, which Terry does most of.  Sure you could argue that cutting the grass is only 30% about having gas in your lawnmower, blade sharpened, and the right shoes on, but when i'm building a deck, for example, I know that having all the right tools and materials on site is half the battle, and the least fun.

The third philosophy of tackling projects is something I often see with how Terry operates.  Ryan Holiday, in The Obstacle is the Way, presents us with: "that which blocks our path creates a new path."  Nowhere is this more exemplified than with completing projects.  I can't tell you how many times that I've hit a stumbling block, only to realize that the obstacle was trying to tell me something: "there is a better way, you stubborn fool."

• Can't find any finish nails?  Damn it.  Well, i'll glue and screw it.  Turns out it was the right thing to do.
• Hit my thumb with the hammer?  After a big swear word, turns out, grabbing my crow bar was the right tool after all.
• Screw breaks off trying to undo the fitting for the dishwasher?  Well, replacing the fitting was the right thing to do because it was going to rust out, anyway.

Terry lives this kind of thing.  He practices a growth mindset.  Things are going to fuck up.  No question.  But what appears to be a problem or a set back usually turns out to be a path to a better solution.

This episode with Terry is part of the 218 Series of Sauna Talk.

We heard it with Daryl Lamppa, who spent countless hours in his garage learning about how wood burns, and tinkering with the design of his sauna stove.  And with Terry we see this same type of devotion to his trade.  A care and commitment to making something remarkable and making it right.  These kind of people impress the heck out of me, and we can all be more like this with our projects and in our lives.

Lastly, for those tackling their own sauna build or home project, i'd like to introduce you to WIT.  You can read here about how applying the Will, Information, and Time to your project, whatever it may be, will lessen the amount of money you will need to throw at your project, and will certainly maximize your satisfaction with the project.

So, Terry is one of my top mentors.  He's saved my ass countless times at the lake.  I try not to bug him as he's always going from one cabin to another, working hard everyday.  But when I see him, i'm always happy.  And we have a great time taking a sauna, too.

Need a fall project?  Now is a great time to install a freeze proof faucet for your backyard garden hose shower.  More here.

Jeff Hill has lived a few lives: A realtor and property developer for 30 years, mailman for 20 years, 20 years with the Tower fire department, and his latest venture is undertaking a Tiny House Village, USA concept for the Northland.

Jeff is well familiar with sauna culture.  Never lock your sauna, experience jumping through a hole in the ice, and try his low blood pressure cocktail for tossing onto sauna rocks.  I picked up Jeff at the mainland public access, and took him by boat to our island cabin in Northern Minnesota.  Jeff came prepared and spent the night at our "insta-cabin".

A good sauna session is about relaxing and having fun.  Jeff knows how to do both.  Often outspoken, always with a big heart, please welcome Jeff Hill to Sauna Talk.

It was a warm day in Northern Minnesota.  I hopped into my fishing boat and headed about 5 miles across Lake Vermilion into the river inlet to Tower, Minnesota.

Daryl Lamppa picked me up at the dock, and we drove in his pick up truck to his corporate headquarters, a few blocks off Main Street, Tower, Minnesota.

Daryl was pretty animated this day.  He was excited to Sauna Talk and shoot the breeze about a day in the life of running a business that has had his family name on the front his entire life.

We were able to relax and get into our conversation without distractions or feeling rushed.  Regarding the chemical principle's of burning wood: "without temperature, none of the reactions go forward".  And old school sauna stoves that fed from the outside were inefficient in many respects, including the heat from the front part of the stove, that was "wasted to the world."  I had a great time asking Daryl questions for Sauna Talk:

One of the more special parts to this episode of Sauna Talk, was when Daryl told us about being reconnected to one of his Grandfather's sauna stoves, at least 80 years old.  On the front, Daryl's Grandfather welded in these words:

Daryl and I talked about many things, including:

• What got you interested in how wood burns, and in making sauna stoves?
• 35 years of tinkering with making a clean burning wood stove.
• Tower, Minnesota.  February 4, 1996.  -60 f.
• Daryl thinking "green" before there was the term green.
• Lamppa Manufacturing:  selling direct to the customer, even before the internet.
• The Kuuma Stove owners manual.  Hand drawn and hand written by Daryl Lamppa.

But back to his grandfather's sauna stove.  This was a touching moment for me, to see Daryl's Grandfather's sauna stove sitting on the dock behind Daryl's current masterpiece.  "If my Grandfather could see the stoves we are making today…."

You don't have to love sauna to appreciate this episode of Sauna Talk.  This is a story about a man of passion and pride.  A story of a guy who grew up doing what his father and his Father's Father enjoyed doing:  making sauna stoves for people to enjoy sauna: a centuries old tradition of health and wellness.

Thinking about building your own sauna? This episode of Sauna Talk brings you inside a live panel discussion on sauna design, construction, and best practices—recorded at the West Coast Sauna Summit near Vancouver, BC.

On the bench with Glenn are two experienced Canadian sauna builders—Andrew (Saunabuilder) and Josh (Theraluxe)—sharing real-world insights on everything from bench heights and wall cladding to wood stoves vs electric heaters, mobile saunas vs backyard builds, and what truly makes a great sauna.

This conversation is part of a hands-on sauna building seminar, where we dig into the practical decisions every builder faces—whether you're just getting started or refining your craft.

We cover:

• Sauna bench height and layout

• Wood-burning vs electric sauna stoves

• Mobile saunas vs permanent backyard builds

• Materials, wall systems, and interior finishes

• The philosophy behind good sauna design

What makes this episode special is the collaborative spirit—three builders sharing ideas openly, grounded in experience, not theory.

Recorded at Loon Lake Lodge during the West Coast Sauna Summit, this session captures the energy of builders and enthusiasts coming together to talk shop, share knowledge, and push sauna culture forward.

So whether you're sketching your first build or fine-tuning your tenth, grab a towel, throw some water on the rocks, and join us on the bench.

 

Maob, Utah.  The mobile sauna has received official dispensation, and has been trailered up to the summit shelf.

The Canyonlands National Park District Director is sitting on the sauna bench to our left.  His hat and uniform hang on a hook in the changing room, where a candle glows softly on the window sill.  The candlelight sheds enough glow for us to see a big smile on his face.  "I'm so glad you guys convinced me to do this!." You are sitting with us for a pre sunrise sauna and the director is telling us stories about the majestic park.  We hit a generous splash of water on the sauna rocks.  We take it all in.  Then we exit the hot room to this:

Canyonlands National Park, Moab, Utah. Photo: Justin Evidon

 

 

The air is crisp, below freezing, but your body is radiantly warm.  The endorphin rush buzzes, akin to the feeling after your favorite exercise.  You've heard stories and have untangled some wires in your head on the sauna bench and now it's time to let nature do it's magic.

Canyonlands National Park, Moab, Utah. Self timer photo: Justin Evidon This is Sauna Talk with Justin Evidon.

We discuss his relatively recent deep immersion into authentic sauna in Minnesota, pulling from his Estonian genetics, time in Scandinavia, and work at the Wellness Center at the University of Minnesota.

We discuss the benefits of travel, health and wellness, millennials and consciousness away from our mobile devices.  We discuss the yeoman's work of JP and the 612 sauna society and the budding movement towards sauna in an urban environment.  Be it at a cabin sauna, an urban backyard sauna, or a mobile sauna, please welcome to Sauna Talk travel and lifestyle photographer Justin Evidon.

What's your favorite sweat bath?  "The one I just took, and the one i'm going to take next."  Into sweat bathing and all the variations underneath.

Defining what a sweat bath is:  Some kind of a chamber where the air is heated, purpose to induce sweat for bathing.

A Finnish style sauna as part of the neighborhood swimming complex at a public space in San Francisco.  North Beach Pool.  It helps create neighborhood and community.  Interacting in a positive, life affirming way.

Getting the (neighborhood) block into the sauna instead of the best sauna on the block.

Lived and travelled extensively.  Prague, Washington DC, Norway, San Francisco.

Sweat in the '70s.  An exciting time for counter cultural views of the world.  Renewed interest in bathing.  Hot Tubs, sweat lodges, saunas.  Wet Magazine.  The tragic tale:  AIDS epidemic.  Shut down public bathing almost overnight.  Mini dark ages of public bathing culture.

Today: we are back into the renaissance.  Mikkel had started receiving calls from all over.  A whole gamut of people wanting to create their own sweat facilities.  People are doing what they're talking about.  Today is the most exciting time in bathing and sweat bathing he can ever imagine.

Temascal and Sauna: centuries old traditions, developed separately, thousands of years ago.

The epiphany for the book Sweat:  At the Finnish Sauna Society in Helsinki.  A worldwide phenomena.  Initially they were dots wanting to be connected.  Sweat bathing is as natural to humans as the baking of bread and the fermenting of grape.

Cultures create their own type of sweat bath.  But no sweat bathing culture around the equator.  You just go outside and you can sweat.

Sweat creates an altered consciousness state:  You go someplace else outside of your normal everyday life.  You are altering yourself.  A basic human need.

The Dolphin Club:  Sauna and swim in the San Francisco Bay.  Sauna Talk.

Different saunas have different rhythms and rituals.

Spending time in the hot room:  He stays until he gets a good sweat.  He's learned to listen to his body.  It's not tied to a timer.  It's really important to get tuned into your body.

The Sweat Summit.  Greg Moga made it happen.  Gathering folks to San Francisco to Mikhail Brodsky, founder and visionary for Archimedes Banya

Put the BTUs into the banya.  Turkish bath, Finnish sauna, and a great restaurant/cafe with Russian style foods and beers.

Brings people together that normally don't get together, in that very healthy way.

Minneapolis:  Credit to the Sweat Summit, but Minneapolis has an emerging group of folks who are bringing forth the concept of sauna in the public realm.  612 Sauna Society.

North American culture was missing this.  What is it about North American culture that misses.  We're getting closer to flipping the switch towards a time when there can be a public sauna in every block everywhere. Urban sauna revival.  Yoga, brew pubs.  A plan that makes sense economically, that can be applied in a wide scale.

Mobile sauna akin to food trucks.

Silicon Valley mobile sauna society.  A bunch of Finns.  Mikkel is the mascot.

Infrared light bulb closets.  "I just don't get it."

There are so many bad saunas in America.  We need to make it known that these are not good saunas and we need to change that.

$50,000 to sponsor Sweat Summit 2.0.  Who'se in?

The best part of a sauna session?  A collection of small moments that all add up to something wonderful.

Water on the rocks is something that is so important, yet so many people are scared of doing that.

No lecturing in the sauna.  Try to be diplomatic afterwards, but sauna is your own experience.  No ringing out your swimsuit onto the sauna rocks!  Not being preachy, yet understanding good sauna ethic.

Read more about Mikkel Aaland here.

Four of us spent a rainy early June afternoon enjoying a sauna session at my cabin.  We road tripped together to experience National Sauna Day in Embarrass, MN.  What better way to get right into nature, and all get on the same page than a great sauna session?

We start on the bench with Garrett Conover.

• 1,200 miles from Maine to Northern Minnesota.
• Cotton grass and tamarack sets my heart aflutter.
• Sauna and nature.

Joined by John Pederson and Lee Sarkela.

• Us 4 characters as long tail sauna enthusiasts.
• Tracing the steps back to Pine Island as the island or origin for us being together.
• 612 Sauna Society parables behind the scenes.  Gas fire going out, trailer jack breaking.
• 2,100 visits to Little Box Sauna, 612 sauna society 2015/2016 this winter.  600 return visitors.

A lake plunge, then Round 2:

• Sauna a Tick Removal Strategy after a hike.
• The universal feel of water being tossed on sauna rocks.
• Elements of sauna are basic:  a throwback to simplicity.  Stove, rocks, benches.
• Wood burning sauna stoves:  loading from the outside, changing room, inside the hot room.
• 612 Sauna Society: "a bunch of really cool people from different walks of life."
• Building a community of people drawn to the steam.
• Magnus Nillson Swedish celebrity chef joins JP in his backyard sauna.
• Negotiating the deal:  The goat comes with.
• Sauna is a great equalizer.  Egos get checked at the sauna door.

A nice community sauna in Minneapolis:  why doesn't it exist?

The exchange of giving and receiving.  A health club vs. backyard vs. public spaces.  The cooperative idea: changing the relationship between the people who are giving and the people who are receiving.  Making a resource available to other people in a sustainable way.

• Chicago Sweatlodge.  Bill Trotter, top 10 sauna meister in North America.  High sensitivity to people.
• JP's latest project the Mobile Sauna Cooperative.  Stokeyard Sauna.  Looking to have many owners to share the sauna experience.
• Vermilion lakeshore and US Steel.  Payroll deduction to pay for the Sarkela Island cabin.
• Sharing a family cabin with siblings, nieces and nephews.   All family are welcome.
• Island life:  picking up folks from mainland.  It's a psychological and physical removal.  Separation from the busy life, to leave behind.
• Getting through big water is about tacking.  Big ocean wave crossing with Garrett Conover in a lobster boat.  An offshore island in Maine.  Mile long and half mile wide.

Tasteful megga wealth.

Canoeing:

• tipping in a canoe in Quebec:  it's hypothermia season all year long.
• Canoe paddling: better partnering with an amateur vs. fighting with someone who thinks they know what they're doing.
• Rapids and waves.  Quartering waves.
• Weather cocking:  Spin on the crest.  Not fighting for every element of control.

Round 3:

• Jarmo Lehtola, Finnish Sauna Society.  A gift of Hukka Sauna stone.  "Tahvo is a sauna elf, that smiles happily, no matter how high the temperature gets"
• I think of Jarmo and his gift every time I toss water on the sauna rocks.
• That's the type of steam you can only get from a real sauna stove.  Not one burst, but a delay.  Sustained steam.
• Most of the heat in a stick of firewood is contained within the smoke.  Gas emitted from burning wood.  An efficient burning stove will burn the smoke as energy.
• Rapid fire questions with Lee.  A close family connection.
• A backyard sauna makes the frown upside down.

The rain stopped.

It was a cold Minnesota winter's evening when we gathered in my backyard sauna.  We get started talking about the cold, sort out our beers for the night, talk about making nICE mugs, and Minnesota Wild apparel.

Please stay with us as we settle onto the sauna bench.

Though he grew up with sauna, Scott landed in Finland on his 20th birthday, and gets seasoned to sauna in the 'ole country.

As commercial Sales Manager Tylo/Helo, Cokato MN.Scott has seen his fair share of sauna:  "If you don't have a good sauna heater, you don't have a good sauna."

"I've walked away from sales because it wasn't done correctly."

A kick ass sauna:  It's the price of a car.  What's the big deal?

Rule of thumb:  At the lake, never lock your sauna building.  It's good karma to have a sauna ready in case someone runs into problems on the lake.

The 2' wide sauna door.

612 Sauna Society - bringing sauna to unexpected places.

The ultimate mobile sauna:  built on a trailer where the wheels can tuck up underneath, allowing the sauna to sit on grade.  Lightweight, pick it up and go.

Could sauna become as popular as Coldplay?  We tread down the infrared line of thinking.

Cleaning a sauna - The Sauna Clean from Finland.  Great product to add a dab to a bucket of warm water and clean your benches with a brush.  An old dry towel to wipe it clean.

The Bodhi Spa – Newport, RI

Links to Scott's company:

Finnleo Sauna.
Helo Sauna.
TyloHelo World Group.

Music Credit: Trampled by Turtles, Midnight on the Interstate

Music for the heat: Danny Sigelman reporting COULD BE SAID MID TEMPO IS THE WAY TO GO WHEN IT COMES TO A SAUNA.

Every genre has some slow jams. even the most aggressive music, be it The Clash, Hold Steady or Fela Kuti can turn their angst or knack for protest into a groove that goes well with clearing the mind. In the end, a center is met when the two are mixed, just like a hot and cold rinse.  With The Clash it's easy to find a more traditional approach to groove, be it a reggae infused rave up; "Guns of Brixton", "Straight to Hell", their luscious cover of "Armagideon Time" or the R&B influence in "Jimmy Jazz".

Ultimately The Hold Steady is a sound that bonds.  Reflections of High School, meeting friends and rocking out, or gallivanting about the celebration of something.  Sauna is a bonding thing too because there is a physical closure to the space you and your buddies are enjoying: the hot room.  Then you escape the heat by going outside, cooling down and feeling the expanse like the loud pressure Craig Finn and his crew powering up a club and bonding the masses.

Fela Anikulapo Kuti was mostly known for his politics and the company he kept.  His Shrine in Kalakutta, Nigeria not only was a gathering place for him and his brethren but also protection from the outside policies and dangers of the government they feared.  Electrifying the stage and the audience at his performances fueled an inner energy and outer confidence in communal and spiritual environment.  The slow groove of everyday Afrobeat compliments the ritual even in remote suburban environments where perhaps the trouble is not as fierce.

Essentially the rhythm of funk flavored African, the straight up American soul or the most technical approach to what moves sonically and has a beat.  The ever resourceful technical Dosh is an artist well suited for the sauna… check him out between or during rounds!

- See more at: http://www.saunatimes.com/sauna-culture/music-for-the-heat-danny-sigelman-reporting/#sthash.7E41cFEV.dpuf

We are joined on the bench with Brian Peterson, acclaimed photographer.  Honored nine times as Minnesota Press Photographer of the Year, Peterson has covered major stories including; Russia before and after the fall of the Soviet Union, the Exxon Valdez oil spill,  the 1987 and 91 Minnesota Twins World Series victories, Olympic Games in Nagano, Japan, Salt Lake City and Vancouver just to name a few.

Recently Peterson has focused his camera on environmental issues, including a six-month study of the pollution in the Minnesota River.  The yearlong feature called "Voices for the Land", explored the issues surrounding land use and urban sprawl in the state.

On the bench, we discuss his latest book project "State of Wonders".  A fabulous book illustrating the four corners of Minnesota during the four distinct seasons of the year.

 

I couldn't be happier to share this inaugural episode of Sauna Talk.  We are joined on the bench today with Tom Rolando.  Tom is best known as Chief Operating Officer for Wisdom Adhesives.

During this episode we Sauna Talk about topics including:

• How to manage 2,000 customers in your Iphone.  "Get with it, get on with the task."
• The Iron Range:  218 natural history and culture.  Sauna is what you did.
• International Falls:  Frostbite Falls.
• Pooner:  Tom's father and example of "Do what you love, and you'll be great at it."
• Daryl Lamppa and the Kuuma Stove.
• The magic of Lake Superior.  "The body of water is like non other."
• Building the Lake Superior Sauna.  

Tom's sauna build was the foundation for the Saunatimes' Build your own sauna ebook.   Documenting and focusing on the complete process, start to Finnish, about building your own sauna.

As we talk about Tom's sauna build we uncover how we talking sauna building in phases: I built from the hot room out.  Everything was a feel.  A number of phases, always a work in progress.

This episode of Sauna Talk comes from a fireside gathering at the West Coast Sauna Summit, held at Loon Lake in the UBC Malcolm Knapp Research Forest.

It was late in the evening on the second night.

Some were still cycling through the saunas. Others had turned in. But about 25–30 of us gathered in a circle—some in sandals, some barefoot, some wrapped in towels or robes—for an impromptu Sauna Talk.

No stage. No agenda. No script.

Just a group of sauna people, settling in after a full day, ready to share thoughts, ideas, and a few laughs.

This is the kind of moment that's hard to plan—and maybe impossible to recreate. By this point in the gathering, the formal presentations were behind us. The introductions had been made. What remained was a sense of ease, openness, and connection.

Seven or so mobile saunas sat just outside, lakeside. The heat, the cold water, the fresh air—it all carried into the conversation.

Co-producer Valtteri called us together: "Ok everybody, let's gather our chairs in a circle. Let's Sauna Talk."

And we did.

What follows is a free-flowing, sometimes wandering conversation—full of perspective, humor, and those small moments that tend to stay with you.

There's something special about the West Coast sauna scene. Open, collaborative, and grounded in nature. No gatekeeping—just a shared appreciation for good heat, cold water, and the people who gather around it.

A big thank you to Linda and Valtteri for creating the space, the energy, and the spirit that made this conversation possible.

From the fireside at Loon Lake, please enjoy this episode of Sauna Talk.

This episode of Sauna Talk comes to you from New York City, recorded during the Culture of Bathing gathering in January 2025.

Rather than a single conversation, this is a walk-through—capturing voices, perspectives, and moments from across the event.

With nearly 100 attendees from around the world—many of them bathhouse owners, operators, and builders—this gathering offered a unique snapshot of where sauna and bathing culture stands today, particularly in North America.

Armed with a handheld recorder, I made my way through Manhattan and Brooklyn, connecting with a handful of people shaping this evolving space.

You'll hear from:

• Shelby, working with Thermë Group, bringing art and design into bathing experiences

• Dimitri Shapiro of the Russian & Turkish Baths, sharing the story of a 130-year-old New York institution

• Don Genders of Design for Leisure, reflecting on decades of global spa and wellness development

• Cosmin, wellness director at Thermë Bucharest, diving into the science and practice of aufguss

• Vicky of Earth Sauna (Victoria, BC), working to bring aufguss training to North America

• Megan of Sauna du Nord (Duluth, MN), speaking to community, accessibility, and the spirit of sauna

What emerges is a layered conversation—touching on tradition, innovation, design, culture, and the growing momentum behind public bathing.

From old-world bathhouses to modern wellness facilities… from aromatherapy and aufguss to questions of access, authenticity, and community… this episode captures a moment in time as sauna culture continues to evolve.

Think of this one as a series of conversations—recorded on the move, in real time, from the streets and bathhouses of New York City.

From the Culture of Bathing gathering, please enjoy this episode of Sauna Talk.

Today on Sauna Talk, we celebrate the spirit of backyard sauna culture with highlights from Parade of Saunas 2024 in Minneapolis.

This community event brought visitors through 10 home saunas across the city, offering a chance to step into the creativity, craftsmanship, and hospitality of backyard sauna owners. Along the way, the event also raised $1,500 for charity.

What stood out most was the generosity of the hosts and the enthusiasm of the visitors. From seasoned sauna folks to those just beginning to dream about their own backyard build, the day was filled with curiosity, good conversation, and shared appreciation for good heat.

In this episode, we check in with a handful of saunas and the people behind them, including:

• Ryan's Fulton neighborhood backyard retreat

• Steve Hawkins and his welcoming sauna crowd

• Darin's NorthUp ultralight sauna from Urban Wing

• Joe Sauna and his "member of the tribe" spirit

• the SaunaTimes sauna here in Minneapolis

• Tom's LightWave sauna

What emerged was more than a tour. It was a reminder that sauna culture grows best when people open their doors, share what they've built, and invite others onto the bench.

As one participant put it, it was "a great event." I'd agree.

From Minneapolis, please enjoy this very special episode of Sauna Talk.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome Dr. Ashley Mason.

Dr. Mason is a clinical psychologist and Associate Professor of Psychiatry at UCSF, where she works within the Osher Center for Integrative Health. Her research focuses on sleep, mental health, and behavioral treatments for insomnia, and she directs the UCSF Sleep, Affect, and Eating (SEA) Lab.

In this conversation, we explore her work on whole body hyperthermia—and what it may tell us about the relationship between heat, mood, and overall well-being.

We talk about:

• How body temperature regulation is connected to depression

• The potential antidepressant effects of heat exposure

• What happens when we remove thermal stress from our daily lives

• How modern, climate-controlled living may keep us in a "narrow band"

• Why reintroducing heat—and even cold—could play a role in better health

Dr. Mason shares insights from her research, including work presented at the BrainMind Summit, where she explores how sauna and other forms of heat exposure may help regulate core body temperature and improve mood in some individuals.

This is a thoughtful, science-based conversation that connects modern research with something many of us already experience on the sauna bench.

From the intersection of sauna and science, please welcome Dr. Ashley Mason to Sauna Talk.

Today on Sauna Talk, we connect with Earric Lee.

This conversation was recorded in London, just outside the British Sauna Summit—so you'll hear a bit of the city in the background as we talk.

Earric is a researcher focused on the health benefits of sauna and a fellow board member of the Sauna Research Institute. His work centers on helping bring greater coordination and visibility to sauna research worldwide.

In this conversation, we explore:

• The current state of sauna research

• Why much of the science remains fragmented

• The need to "de-silo" researchers across countries and disciplines

• How stronger collaboration could help advance understanding of sauna's health benefits

Earric shares his perspective on what's needed to move sauna research forward—and why this moment feels important.

For many of us, the benefits of sauna are something we've experienced firsthand. The challenge now is helping science catch up, organize, and communicate those benefits more clearly.

From the streets of London, please welcome Earric Lee to Sauna Talk.

This is Episode 100 of Sauna Talk.

When I started this podcast back in 2016, the idea was simple: capture a bit of what happens on the sauna bench.

It's a unique place for conversation. The body is under stress, yet the mind is relaxed. Distractions fall away. And something opens up—thoughts, ideas, stories, and connections.

Sauna Talk has always been about that space.

It's the kind of conversation you have with a close friend, a family member, or someone you've just met—but somehow feel like you've known for years. It's where ideas get untangled, perspectives shift, and time seems to slow down.

In this episode, we look back.

You'll hear excerpts from past conversations with a range of voices who have helped shape Sauna Talk, including:

• Tom Rolando, reflecting on the early days and origin of the podcast

• Daryl Lamppa on traditional sauna stoves

• Scott Olson on entrepreneurship and community

• Wim Hof on heat and cold

• Dr. Jari Laukkanen on sauna research

• Alex Blyashuk on venik practice

• Bruce Oreck on Finland and happiness

• Lasse Eriksson on the deeper meaning of sauna

Each voice offers a different perspective—but together, they reflect the spirit of Sauna Talk.

One hundred episodes in, what stands out most is the people. The generosity, the passion, and the shared belief that sauna has something meaningful to offer.

It's been a privilege to have these conversations, and a pleasure to share them with you.

From the sauna bench, thank you for listening.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome Ragna Marie Fjeld, Secretary General of Oslo Badstuforening—the Oslo Sauna Association.

Founded in 2016, Oslo Badstuforening began with a single sauna along the Oslo fjord. In just a few short years, it has grown into a remarkable network of floating and mobile saunas—now numbering well beyond its original footprint, and continuing to expand.

In this episode, we take a closer look at what's behind that growth.

Set along the harbor in Oslo, the association's saunas have become a central part of the city's public life. Their original sauna still operates today, surrounded by a fleet of floating saunas—each with its own character, yet all part of a larger, shared vision.

What's striking is not just the scale, but the momentum.

• Saunas are frequently fully booked

• Interest from staff and volunteers continues to grow

• Architects and builders are eager to contribute

• The organization operates with a strong sense of purpose and collaboration

Ragna shares insight into how this all comes together—from operations and culture to the mindset that allows for this kind of expansion without losing the spirit of sauna.

We also touch on the broader context: how sauna is woven into Nordic life, and why Oslo has become a leading example of what's possible when community, location, and intention align.

From the Oslo fjord, please welcome Ragna Marie Fjeld.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome Alan Jalasjja who shares with us "The Spirit of Sauna."

Alan is an evangelist who is with us to help promote the experience. Growing up with sauna his whole life, as a Finnish Canadian, we get the perspective of what sauna spirit means to him.

World Sauna Forum 2024

The growth of the event compared to 2022

Globe and Mail article

I encourage you to click through the link towards his Op Ed opinion piece that recently appeared in the Globe and Mail, which discusses "enjoying sauna in the now." Sure the health benefits are there for the long term, but wow, let's enjoy our sauna time now.

Thermal cycle

We discuss the value of time. The holy trinity to a good cool down: cold water, nature, time.

The four elements to sauna

• fire
• air
• water
• earth (the stones).

Some magical gems from Alan, and happy to share with you here.

Welcome to this episode of Sauna Talk, where we head back to Farris Bad, resort spa and wellness retreat South of Oslo, Norway. We get to sit with Jerome, who is a long standing steam master at the resort. Here he leads aufguss ceremony and assists two time Sauna Talk guest Lasse Eriksen.

10,000 hours

One thing I wish I had asked Jerome in this interview is to venture a guess at how many guests he's "entertained" (if that's the right word) over his 10-plus years leading aufguss sessions at this world-renowned facility. Some quick farmer's math gets us close: a few sessions a day, five days a week, for 10 years… that adds up to well over 10,000 people.

I'm one of those 10,000—a repeat guest for a couple of years, attending several of his aufguss ceremonies.

An Aufgussmeister, in my view, is best to not be lead into temptation. For like a church paster, there could be that ego boost that comes from standing in front of an audience, performing. Controlling the movement of steam, and the administering of essences and microclimate manipulation could give one a feeling of power, dominance even.

Aufguss master responsibilities

Yet Lasse instills some deep and powerful education with his students. He gives them freedom to be creative with their art, yet he also instills true message that the sauna is the teacher. The stove and the heat and steam it creates is to be respected. The duty an aufgussmeister has to those sitting on the bench is an important one. Safety is critical. For the under educated, pushing steam and controlling time in the hot room is a noble and great responsibility.

Each session is led with an important statement. You are welcome to leave the session, but once you leave, do not come back in. The door to the hot room opens in one direction during an aufguss ceremony.

But back to Jerome. After producing over 100 Sauna Talk podcasts, I've learned what makes a guest unforgettable: someone who can take us right to the edge of the box. During my visits to Farris Bad, Jerome would casually share insights about aufguss—and every time, I'd think, people need to hear and feel this for themselves!

Today, we get that chance, right now. Let's step behind the scenes into the fascinating, ever-evolving world of aufguss. Please welcome Jerome to Sauna Talk!

Podcast summary

Jerome Farris, a sauna master at Farris Bad in Larvik, Norway, discusses his role and background. He has been at Farris Bad for eight years, having moved from Switzerland. Jerome speaks multiple languages and has a Montessori teaching background, which he applies to his sauna master role. He emphasizes the importance of sensory experiences and the therapeutic aspects of sauna rituals. Farris Bad has seven saunas and offers courses for aspiring steam masters. Jerome highlights the collaborative and non-prescriptive nature of the sauna experience, aiming to connect guests with their roots and elements. He also shares insights into the sauna's cultural significance and its benefits for well-being.

Key Moments 2:36-3:48 Jerome explains how his background with kids at Montessori and performance art helped him with his current job in sauna- so interesting! 8:44-9:03 Jerome talks about proposing to his wife! 30:12-31:00 Jerome discusses people pushing themselves/ MMA fighters- this was interesting

 

In this episode of Sauna Talk, Glenn reconnects with Lasse Eriksen—this time on the beach at Farris Bad, one of Scandinavia's premier waterfront sauna and spa destinations.

A lot has evolved since Lasse first joined Sauna Talk, and this conversation captures that next chapter. Now serving as Development Manager at Farris Bad, Lasse is helping shape sauna not just as a place, but as a fully realized experience—where environment, ritual, and human connection come together.

At Farris Bad, guests are immersed in a dynamic sauna culture that blends traditional bathing with modern programming. From curated sauna circuits to scheduled aufguss sessions, Lasse and his team are creating a rhythm that invites both newcomers and seasoned bathers into something deeper.

But this conversation goes well beyond operations.

Lasse shares his broader mission to elevate sauna globally through his work with the International Sauna Association, the Norwegian Sauna Association, and his role as Vice President of Aufguss WM. He speaks to the responsibility of preserving authenticity while still allowing sauna culture to evolve—and how aufguss, when done well, can be both an entry point and an art form.

There's also a strong emotional current throughout this episode. Lasse's passion for sauna is unmistakable—rooted in care, connection, and a belief that sauna has the power to bring people closer to themselves and each other.

This is a conversation about leadership, stewardship, and what it means to carry sauna forward without losing its soul.

In this episode:

• Sauna as place vs. sauna as experience

• Inside Farris Bad's sauna and aufguss programming

• The global rise of aufguss and sauna rituals

• Balancing tradition with innovation

• Building sauna culture in Norway and beyond

• The role of organizations shaping the future of sauna

• Friendship, passion, and the emotional side of sauna

If you care about where sauna is headed—and how to grow it with integrity—this episode with Lasse Eriksen is one to sit with.

On this episode of Sauna Talk, Glenn is joined on the bench by three generations of sauna builders—the Wilson family of Homecraft: Stew, David, and Kyle.

Based outside Vancouver, British Columbia, Homecraft is one of Canada's longest-running sauna heater manufacturers. But this conversation goes far beyond specs and steel. It's about the people behind the product—and why that matters more than ever in today's sauna marketplace.

As the steam rises, Glenn digs into what makes a good electric sauna heater—not just in performance, but in reliability, serviceability, and long-term trust. The Wilsons bring a rare combination of perspectives: decades of hands-on manufacturing, electrical expertise, and a grounded, values-driven approach to doing business.

They talk about what it means to build heaters in North America, why support after the sale matters, and how design decisions impact real sauna experiences—like steam quality, element durability, and ease of maintenance.

But what stands out most is the human side of the conversation.

This is a family business built on integrity, humility, and care for the end user. From Stew's steady leadership to David's electrician mindset and Kyle's thoughtful, purpose-driven approach, you get a clear sense that Homecraft isn't chasing trends—they're building something meant to last.

There's also a deeper layer here: a shared belief that sauna is not just mechanical—it's experiential, even spiritual. And the products we choose shape that experience in ways we often overlook.

In this episode:

• The history and evolution of Homecraft in Canada

• What makes a great electric sauna heater (beyond the brochure)

• Steam quality, element longevity, and real-world performance

• Why service, repairability, and support matter

• Manufacturing vs. mass distribution: what's changing in the market

• The importance of knowing who makes your sauna equipment

• Craftsmanship, family business, and staying grounded in values

If you've ever wondered what's really behind the heater in your sauna—or why it matters who builds it—this episode brings clarity, honesty, and a refreshing dose of perspective.

Because in the end, it's not just about the product.
It's about the people who stand behind it.

In this episode of Sauna Talk, Glenn reflects on Sauna Days 2024—a weekend where over 200 sauna enthusiasts gathered along the shores of Larsmont Cottages for a one-of-a-kind celebration of heat, cold, and community.

Set against the vast backdrop of Lake Superior, Sauna Days has become more than an event—it's a living, breathing expression of modern sauna culture rooted in nature.

The formula is simple, almost deceptively so:
a collection of mobile saunas, a few wood-fired anchors, cold water access, good people, and just enough structure to let spontaneity take over.

This year's gathering featured 12 mobile saunas, a brick-and-mortar heat source, multiple cold plunge options (including the big lake itself), and a steady rhythm of connection—from quiet solo rounds to packed benches full of laughter and steam.

But what really defines Sauna Days isn't the setup—it's the people.

Familiar faces returned, new friendships formed, and conversations flowed easily between rounds. Whether on the bench, around the fire, or standing barefoot on the rocks, there was a shared understanding: everyone knew how to sauna.

Guests traveled from across the U.S., Canada, and the UK—including representation from Finnmark Sauna and the British Sauna Society—highlighting just how far this movement has spread.

The weekend also featured a dynamic speaker series, with topics ranging from breathwork and sobriety to the future of large-scale wellness spaces. Meanwhile, Steam Masters introduced many to the power of venik treatments—adding a deeper, more traditional layer to the experience.

And through it all, nature remained the headliner:
sunsets over the lake, star-filled skies, shifting weather, and that unmistakable feeling of being somewhere that matters.

In this episode:

• Inside Sauna Days 2024 at Larsmont Cottages

• The rise of mobile sauna culture

• Why shared sauna experiences create instant connection

• Guests traveling from across North America and beyond

• The role of speakers, rituals, and Steam Masters

• Venik treatments and the influence of banya traditions

• Sauna as a festival—and why it works

• The power of sauna in nature

At its core, Sauna Days is a reminder that sauna doesn't need to be complicated to be meaningful.

Just heat, cold, water, and people—
done well, in the right place.

Today on the actual sauna bench, we are joined and talk with Jake Newport from Finnmark.

Jake makes the journey from Northern England to join me on the Larsmont Cottages sauna bench in Northern Minnesota, by the cold, clear clean water shores of Lake Superior. You can also check out my podcast with Jake and Brother Max from 2020 here.

During this episode, we learn more from Jake about the thermal bathing ecosystem in the UK and globally. From career path change to multi pronged sauna business. Investing and reinvesting in the culture and the company.

Super early bird grounding

Fully grounded by being the first guests to Sauna Days. We enjoy solitary quiet time to ground ourselves through the hot and the cold.

Mika & Wendy – lifetime achievement awards for sauna. BSS founding. The explosion of sauna in Great Britain. Huge number getting into the thermal bathing scene. Beautiful saunas on beautiful beach. Beach Box Brighton.

A meaningful thermal experience

Three things that give us the feeling of community: a the church, the pub, and the village green society. Britain has become more secular. People now are far more health conscious. A void around community, and a sense of community. A gap waiting to be filled. A huge spectrum of age. Mikkel Aaland, and the "lost bathing culture" and the return of uptick of thermal bathing.

Larsmont Cottages sauna talk

Jake describes the sauna in which we are sitting. How the sauna is Finnish style. He calls out the Western Red Cedar, and full wooden door. Jake describes the Kuuma stove: "This is a heater that you buy once."

Final words:

It's the hot, then the cold, then the normalization. lying outside on the cold wet grass, Jake found himself unwound and relaxed.

Today on Sauna Talk we welcome Charlie from Community Sauna Baths in England.

Who is Community Sauna Baths? Well, they are Community Interest Company, a CIC, who is dedicated to providing affordable sauna sessions to the communities they serve. Currently with four locations, including their flagship locale in Hackney, East London.

Here is where we catch up with Charlie, one of the directors at Community Sauna Baths for this podcast.

Currently Community Sauna Baths are serving thousands of customers from the area. Local Londoners as well as a lot of visitors from abroad. Irish, some Finns, you name it.

Early influences

As you'll here, Charlie grew up with the classic toaster oven experience at health clubs. Then, he was deeply affected to the positive, partacking in sauna at the Finnish Church and also Lost Horizons, the pop up social sauna in London.

Feeling a tug to help advance the social communal experience, Charlie leaned in to helping with the ambitious Hackney Baths fundraising project with the British Sauna Society. The fundraising came up short, but it did pave the way towards a more organic project. 2 donated saunas, one from Charlie.

Covid and beyond

We talk about countless hours of donated time to host sessions. How they are learning as we are going, starting slow by serving random members of the public in Hackney London. Slow organic growth. Adding days. Modifying and improving the site. Victoria and Gabrielle building website and marketing.

Community Baths today

The staff provides a real nice blend of skills. Part of the beauty is that good heat and cold does most of the heavy lifting. Staff supports the good heat and cold, and people benefit from and enjoy the experience.

Looking to grow. Charlie is helping work on a new site. We learn about the South London project, in Peckam, as part of the community garden. Bringing saunas into natural spots in London.

4th one in Normandy. Rob's project. The first beach sauna in France.

UK affordable and inclusive.

Charlie's career

Charlie cut his teeth as a management consultant. Great learning experience. Freelance consulting. Started a mushroom farm. Full time. Able to pay himself a salary. Well paying job for staff. Community interest Company. A commercial mind with a non for profit structure.

New community sauna in Bristol. Using profits to seed other new saunas.

Setting the seeds for a community Sauna Network.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome Tom Carlson, a sauna enthusiast and a SaunaTimes public sauna map supporter.

Tom caught the sauna bug in Germany, and brought home his love and appreciation for good heat. And, like many of us, Tom recognizes how good sauna is like a candle that lights another candle. And with this, there are really good saunas dotted all over the world.

Several years ago, we built the SaunaTimes Public Sauna Map. With over 200 entries and counting, there's a good chance that as you arrive in a new town, you'll be ale to click through and find a kick ass sauna for you to attend. And for Tom, you'll hear about his commitment to helping all of us find good saunas wherever we may be. Currently, he and Kevin are SaunaTimes public sauna map champions.

But I would like you to know how I first met Tom. It was a couple Sauna Days ago, at Larsmont Cottages in Two Harbors, Minnesota. A guy walks up to me with a Wisconsin 6 pack in one hand, and outstretches his other hand to shake my hand. "This is for you. You helped me realize how great sauna is. Thank you Glenn, you've pretty much changed my life."

Wow, those are big shoes to wear. However, thankfully we were both bare footed, and we both hit the same sauna bench and shared some kindred spirit thermal action. And like convective heat transfer into hot rocks from protected elements, a logical, long lasting connection was made.

Tom's Travels

Tom lives in Wisconsin USA, and on a whim, came through Minneapolis, and naturally found himself on the bench in my backyard sauna.

We share stories and steam. And are joined with quiet guest Darin from Urban Wing.

As bonus, we enjoy an extended löyly. And if you are driving, please don't close your eyes, but this extended löyly is for you.

Today on the Sauna Talk bench, we welcome three guests who are aligned to helping veterans through sauna as a means of healing our heroes.

Their stories are heartfelt, their passions are clear. And for those of us who know sauna, we know that their purpose is meaningful and their success rate undeniable. (ie sauna is good for us!)!

Who is Healing Heroes Saunas? The co-founders, Mike and Josh: as introduction:

Mike Lotzer

On the right side of the bench we have, Mike Lotzer. Mike is the Lead Pastor of Mercy Road Church in Burnsville, MN and served in the Army Chaplain Corps. from 2004-2012. Stateside, Mike served as a Casualty Notification Chaplain, Special Troops Battalion Chaplain, and Marriage Strong Bonds Instructor.  Also, he deployed in the Iraq War.  

Mike has walked with soldiers, families, and loved ones through extreme pain both stateside and in combat zones. His experiences caring for dying soldiers have birthed a lifelong commitment to serve and empower Warriors and their families. Mike has been married to his wonderful wife Erica for 18 years. The couple have three children and live in Lakeville, MN. Mike has a B.A. in Comparative World Religion and Psychology from the University of Wisconsin, a Master of Divinity from Fuller Theological Seminary, and a Certification in Combat Medical Ministry and Suicide Prevention from the U.S. Army Medical Department.

Kirk

Center bench, we welcome back Kirk Jensen to Sauna Talk. Kirk is longtime host and fellow board member of the 612 Sauna Society. You can learn more about Kirk as he was a recent guest to the Sauna Talk podcast. Kirk spent 34 years in the Air Force. He retired as Lieutenant Colonel with +7,000 hours as a C-130 Navigator. Kirk participated in every conflict during that time. Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Somalia. Kirk's "day job" is flight simulator trainer for the Air Force.

Today, you can find Kirk either near the Minneapolis St Paul airport, where he runs Air Force flight training or alongside the 612 Sauna Society Sauna, where he serves as longstanding sauna host.

Josh

On the left side of the bench, we have Josh Meisberger (42). Josh has been married for 19 years and has 2 wonderful teenage boys. Currently living outside of Minneapolis in Apple Valley, Josh and family saunas frequently (3-5 times per week) enjoying their permanent wood fire sauna in the back yard of their home. Josh and family are active members at Mercy Road Church in Burnsville.

Josh spent 22 years in the military with 2 combat tours to Iraq before being medically retired for various military related injuries. Currently, Josh owns a construction company (Rare Homes Inc) where he and team do everything from small bathroom remodels all the way up to custom builds and commercial space work.

Mike and he more recently started Healing Heroes Saunas as a way to give back to the men and women who serve our communities in Hero rolls including Veterans, Police, Firefighters, and all first responder, along with their families. Mike and Josh are currently working on their 501c3 filing, as well as fundraising so that they can expand our reach providing hot and cold therapy. 

Josh and Mike are very close to finishing their second unit, which will immediately be deployed around the state of Minnesota. They have a long term goals of 5-10 units in the state of Minnesota, as well as being able to build more permanent saunas at their residence for Heroes on an application basis.  

Currently you can find them on Instagram @healingheroessaunas.

Today from any one of 22 saunas, we Sauna Talk from the Great Northern Sauna Village, Malcolm Yards, Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA.

"The Great Northern Sauna Village is a social and therapeutic experience hosted at Malcolm Yards. Visitors can immerse themselves in sauna culture by interacting with various Thermaculture traditions. And connecting with local sauna companies and builders. During 60-90- minute Steam Sessions, guests can explore various types of traditional wood-fired sauns. These include barrel, mobile, and backyard units; tent and floatings saunas. And a new shipping container event sauna for 20+ people. All this, while experiencing multiple forms of heat, steam, and aromatherapy with the cold contrast therapy of winter air and snow."

The numbers speak for themselves: 22 saunas from over a dozen Saunapreneurs. Some of whom I've known, supported, and encouraged from back in the day when sauna in the public domain, even here in Minnesota's sauna country, was fringe and not so enthusiastically embraced as today.

Sauna Talk glowing from the Sauna Village

You can see and feel the sauna glow. And as you listen along, you will be able to catch the spirit from a few of the people behind the scenes at the Great Northern Sauna Village. The event is three long weekends long. Here, we catch up with the folks today snap dab in the middle of the event on a chilly grey Saturday afternoon. Those interested in attending can catch the event during its last weekend, next weekend. Tickets are a reasonable $40, and available via the link supporting this podcast on SaunaTimes.com.

We start off this episode with Shaelyn from Superior Saunas, the mayor of the Great Northern Sauna Village. We meet up with Darin from Urban Wing, Jessie from Deep Wave. John from Superior Saunas, Nomad Phil. And Excelsior Saunas Jim, Matt from Superior Saunas, and a few other selected guests along the way.

Wherever this podcast may find you, I think you'll enjoy getting to know what's happening in this region. The boldly self proclaimed Sauna Capital of North America. Here is where you'll find open arms, steam billowing, endorphins rushing, and cold water plunging.

Today we welcome back Dr. Charles Raison to this Sauna Talk podcast part 2.

I encourage you to check in with Part one, where Chuck and i work from the starting block about Sauna health benefits and research surrounding hypethermia and hot/cold contrast therapy.

In this episode, by design we go deeper.

We unpack hot cold therapy as a novel treatment for mental health.

101.3

101.3 isn't just the radio frequency for a hit music station in the Twin Cities. We have foundational research surrounding the effects on the body and the mind of achieving this core body temperature. Ashley Mason's work at University of California San Francisco is expanding upon the psychological and physiological effects of this level of heat stress when reaching this core body temperature. Physically, from, for example the standpoint of blood pressure and heart rate variability. Yet how do these physical changes affect people's moods? Specifically, as a possible novel treatment in the area of depression, anxiety, and other mental health issues.

Totonu

The Japanese have a word for that nirvana feeling we get after a few sauna rounds and cold therapy action. They call it Totonu. And there is actually a published study on the neuro effects of sauna bathing. We link to this study on the Sauna Research Institute website as well as on SaunaTimes websites. In the study, it is recognized that sauna is an activity that promotes relaxation and health. Three cycles of sauna, cold, rest lowers your heart rate and makes you feel more relaxed. Intense feelings of happiness have been reported shortly after enjoying a hot sauna and cold water, what is known in Japan as the "totonou" state.

With this contrast therapy, we achieve a lower heart rate, changes of brain waves, and better metabolic health through the increase in brown fat production – known as "the good fat". And one could argue that, for those horizontally challenged, sauna use raises heart rate to about the state we achieve with a fast walk. So there is a weight loss association to regular sauna use. But this is not something i'd get the scale out to rely upon.

The Vail Project – Eagle Valley

We discuss a "Top Flight Sauna" for Vail Health's Behavioral Health Innovation Center. Right now in development, the CHILL'D Study ("Cold and Heat Investigation to Lower Levels of Depression") will explore ways to optimize the proven benefits of hyperthermia for depression, including whether adding cold to heat will improve outcomes and whether hyperthermia can be effectively combined with standard antidepressants.  

Vail Health is especially interested in thermic bathing within ancient practices. Many of us listening enjoy Nordic style sauna, where we pay homage to the origins of the word sauna (Finland). And sometimes many spend a lot of effort scolding its improper pronunciation. Yet, for those of us that share and know that good feeling, the definition of sauna is arguably much more important than its pronunciation. And for that matter, the definition of sauna is universal and straightforward:

Sauna Definition: A room, often lined with wood, with a heat source that heats rocks to sufficient temperature to create steam when water is tossed on rocks.

So, for example, Temascal, Native American Sweat Lodge, Banya and venik treatments, are all ancient sauna sweat bathing practices.

Chris Lindley is Chief Population Health Officer, Vail Health and the Executive Director, Eagle Valley Behavioral HealthExecutive Director at Eagle Valley Behavioral Health. I will save his bio for what I hope to be a dedicated podcast interview with Chris. But a quick note: Chris's education and passion revolve around improving the population's health, emergency response, and wellness. Chris is a decorated combat veteran, receiving a Bronze Star and Presidential Citation while leading troops in Iraq in 2005.

The convergence of the Sauna Research Institute, Vail Health, and the work happening with Charles through Ashley in San Francisco, Chris and team at Vail Health, as well as at Harvard are exciting examples for all of us, that right now, what we all know to be true is being studied and researched.

Sauna is good for us!

Soon, as we continue to unpack and understand how.. and why.. and how much.. I will say, I hope you enjoy my visit with Dr. Charles Raison.. and Sauna on!

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome a very special guest: Dr. Hans Hägglund.

Hans Hägglund, MD, PhD, is a physician, professor at Uppsala University in northern Sweden, and senior consultant at Karolinska University Hospital in Stockholm. With a deep background in clinical research and leadership in cancer care, his work bridges modern medicine with the enduring traditions of sauna and health.

In this conversation, we connect with Hans in Stockholm and explore the growing global interest in sauna bathing and cold exposure. We talk about the challenges of researching their health benefits, and why sauna bathing deserves greater consideration within the broader context of preventative health and medicine.

Hans shares insights from his work as former director of the Cancer Center at Uppsala University Hospital and his role as Sweden's national cancer coordinator. We also discuss his involvement across the sauna world—as a member of the Swedish Sauna Academy, the International Sauna Association, and the Sauna Research Institute—and his efforts to bring scientific rigor to sauna culture.

Known by many as the "sauna doctor," Hans is also the author of The Sauna Book – Hot Facts on Sauna and Health, which has helped bridge the gap between research and tradition.

Along the way, we touch on his personal journey, his earliest sauna memories, and his perspective on prevention as a powerful and often overlooked pillar of health.

And, of course, we ask one of our favorite questions: from a Swedish—and global—perspective, what's the most misunderstood thing about sauna?

Please welcome Dr. Hans Hägglund to Sauna Talk.

Today on the virtual smoke sauna bench, please welcome my friend Jarmo Hiltunen. Author of the brand new book: Building a Traditional Finnish Smoke Sauna.

I am overjoyed that for many, Jarmo will be your voice to the introduction to the wonderfulness of smoke sauna. Jarmo is a builder, but I would call him more of an artisan. Also, he is also a smoke sauna spiritual evangelist.

His book is now available on Amazon

As we type the words "smoke sauna" into the Amazon search bar, we have to sift our way through infrared "sauna" blankets and dozens of other misappropriations of the word "sauna" before finally finding this gem of a resource.

Many/most of us around the world have little knowledge or experience with smoke sauna. It's not just buried within the search bar. And for some of us, being hidden and special is a nice place for smoke sauna to reside.

For smoke sauna is a deep in history, culture, and spirit. Yes, we have had many fragmentations of sauna. But, there will be minimal to no fragmentations of traditional smoke sauna. And thanks to this comprehensive work, Jarmo Hiltunen ensures us that the purity and authenticity of smoke sauna will remain with us forever.

I love that smoke sauna is hard to build. It takes commitment and cash. And these barriers help ensure that those willing to take on the task are both committed to the work. And dedicated to its reward.

This book helps us decide if we want to undertake the challenge. The book clearly helps us decide for ourselves if we are ready to undertake building our own smoke sauna. We Get a flavor of the potential satisfaction in the work, and if committed, be able to realize the amazing löyly and hot room microclimate that may await us at the end of the smoke sauna building journey.

Small world

I am blessed to have met Jarmo Hiltunen, the author, by upmost coincidence in a public (modified) smoke sauna in Helskinki, back in 2019. Despite living in separate continents, reading through his book, I feel once again that I am right there with him on the bench.

Buy this book. And whether you undertake your smoke sauna build or not, reading through the process will help you appreciate Jarmo's dedication to smoke sauna. And that alone is worth having his book on your shelf.

Wishing you all good sauna. And thank you Jarmo for your hard work and dedication to making this book come to life.

Welcome to this Sauna Talk podcast episode with Nick Fox: Minnesota's first Wim Hof certified instructor and baker of amazing homemade bread.

We communed in heat, cold plunge and nature in my backyard sauna recently and you'll hear my interview with Nick in just a moment. But before then, I'd like to take you back to a dark and cold February night in Minnesota a few years ago when Nick first sat down to watch the VICE documentary on Wim Hof, the Ice Man. Inspired by the science and adventures in the cold with minimal clothing, Nick began taking cold showers and practicing breathwork the very next day. His experience with the Wim Hof Method (WHM) initiated Nick's breathwork journey. In January of 2022 he went to Poland to complete his certification as a WHM Instructor, and later he became certified in the Oxygen Advantage. Now, he guides breathwork and coaches ice baths in workshops around the Midwest. 

Pulmonaut beginnings

Before becoming a full-time Pulmonaut, (a pulmonaut is simply someone who uses their breath as a tool for exploration and transformation) Nick taught Philosophy, History, and Art at both the high school and college level. He is also a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army Reserve, and spends his summers out in the field with the cadets at the Military Academy in West Point, NY. When he's not playing Army, he's writing and drawing with his young kids. 

Sauna Talk Podcast cold exposure breathwork guests

Those familiar with this podcast are familiar with a few other Sauna Talk guests from the world of cold exposure and breathwork. A few that come to mind include Harvey Martin, who currently is on staff breathing and contrast therapy-ing with the San Francisco Giants major league baseball team, Jesse Coomer, trainer, breathwork coach and author of two books on the subject, and Wim Hof himself, back in 2017. So feel free to dig back and check out these episodes in particular.

Back to Nick

Teaching people deep conscious breathing and cold exposure techniques is his new passion. You can visit his website foxfirebreathworks.com where you'll be able to check out his upcoming workshops and classes. For example, in January 2024, it should be cold enough in Minneapolis for Nick's winter swimming class at the Swedish Institute. He is mobilizing a kick ass wood fired mobile sauna (one that I actually had a hand in helping with with my friends Brad and Ben at Prairiewood Saunas, but that's story for another day coming soon). Anyhow, Nick looks forward to helping you explore your inner strengths. And I am super happy to share some breathing on the bench with you and Nick Fox from FoxFire Breathworks. Welcome Nick to Sauna Talk!

Today we welcome a very special guest to Sauna Talk: Dr. Charles Raison. His biography is as follows:

Dr. Raison is a the Mary Sue and Mike Shannon Chair for Healthy Minds, Children & Families in the School of Human Ecology and a Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin – Madison. Dr. Raison received his medical degree from Washington University in St Louis, Missouri, where he was elected to Alpha Omega Alpha and won the Missouri State Medical Association Award. He completed residency training at the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute and Hospital in Los Angeles. In addition to his medical training, Dr. Raison obtained his Masters of English from the University of Denver.

Dr. Raison has written and published over 100 scientific papers as well over 20 review papers and editorials. Chapters he has written have been featured in over 30 books, and he has written two books, most recently The New Mind-Body Science of Depression, published by WW Norton in 2017. Dr. Raison's publications have been cited over 14,000 times, with three publications having more than 1,000 citations. His H-index is 44. The recipient of several teaching awards, Dr. Raison has received research funding from the National Institute of Mental Health, National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. His visionary work focuses on the treatment of depression in response to illness and stress, translating neurobiological findings into novel interventions. In addition to his activities at University of Wisconsin-Madison, Dr. Raison is the mental health expert for CNN.com."

Reference: UW-Madisonhttps://www.psychiatry.wisc.edu › staff › raison-charles

Sauna Talk excerpts

We discuss Charles' academic and personal background, how he has been interested in World's ancient practices including Buddist Tuumo meditation, where Tibetan monks are wrapped in cold wet blankets and through breathing and meditation, are able to warm themselves for a long period of time. The area around research and studies to treat depression are of special interest. Reaching a hypothermia state has proven health benefits. Dr. Raison's 2010 depression study with 16 people, who reached 101.3 degrees f. shown a marketed decrease in depression. The participants actually lowered their internal body temperature.

The World leader in Hypothermia

We discuss other work and studies happening right now in the United States, through Harvard University and Massachusetts General. Also Ashley Mason's work in San Francisco. More on this soon! The Vail sauna lab Eagle County Co. is an interesting place. The disparity of rich and poor, and people moving their and experiencing the Paradox of Paradise, are likely culprits that lead to the area having the highest suicide rate in the country.

Ashley Mason, UCSF. Heat has an antidepressant effect.

Transforming mental health

The good news is a private investment of $100mm towards a new hospital in Vail that is committed to transform mental health in this country. Providing equitable care for rich and non rich, integrating mind/body practices. Vail Health is set to be a world class research institute. Heat, thermal studies, psychedelic research are all areas of study. It is an exciting time for sauna research.

The CHILL study. Can you benefit from heat whether you are taking an antidepressant or not?

This episode tees the ball up for our follow up conversation which I will be equally excited to bring to you in the future.

So, for right now, I am pleased to present to you Dr. Charles Raison.

Welcome to this mini Sauna Talk episode from inside and around the World's Largest Sauna. The sauna was constructed as part of the RunningMan festival outside of Atlanta Georgia, this past weekend, mid October 2023.

I'll try to connect the dots to how the World's Largest Sauna came about. And it started with the folks at Embrace North, building a few saunas for the All Day Running organization. And as All Day Running began planning for the RunningMan festival, well, their experience with good heat and creative right brain thinking on the bench fostered a way to "scale" sauna.\

And we move over to All Day Running's co founder Todd Ferneaux's backyard. Here is where Todd built the mock prototype for the World's Largest Sauna. I'll spare the nuts and bolts of its creative construction, as you can listen to my recent podcast interview with Todd for more on that.

World's Largest Sauna building

I was able to lend to help with some of the construction of the sauna and set up.

For now, though, I'd like to welcome you into the event: RunningMan. I attended for a few reasons, and one was to help share what I know about running the sauna stoves. I have used this same stove for 30 years. As elder statesman with more grey hair than most at the event, I was happy to help coach the stokers who became quick studies on stove operation. (note: you don't have to go into the hot room to see how your stove is performing. If you see smoke coming out the chimney, it needs attending).

Runners and Sauna enthusiasts

Another reason why I was happy to attend RunningMan is to celebrate and experience all the goodness happening with the Venn diagram overlap of people into hot/cold contrast therapy and people into running. As we look at the overlap, the commonalities become clear.

Runners:

• know how to push the limits of human performance.
• are tuned into their bodies.. and their minds.
• get high on their own supply.
• are generally conscious folks who can feel when endorphins are rushing.
• know how good it feels the moment you stop banging your head against a wall.

All above also applies to all of us who dig sauna. And cold plunge, as peanut butter and jelly. Knowing our bodies, minds, spirits. Runners, generally, all dig sauna. And when they feel good heat, it's all over.

So, in this episode you'll hear from Todd at All Day Running, C T from Nomad Sauna, Tyler, one of the stokers, and a couple other guests, all of whom will give you a good flavor of what it's like to be in and around the World's Largest Sauna.

Today on the bench, we welcome Todd Furneaux who is spearheading the building of the World's Largest Sauna. The sauna is being constructed as part of Running Man, a three day festival happening outside of Atlanta Georgia this mid October 2023.

During this episode, you'll hear about Todd's company and cohorts, All Day Running. And how the idea of building the World's Largest Sauna was surely fostered on the sauna bench or in the cold plunge. As with endorphins running and community spiriting, this is the environment for Sauna Talk and crazy out there thinking.

Atlanta steeplechase. Grass track. Sauna Village, fun zone, DJs, live music, conferences,

October 17, 18, 19 event.

Sauna can hold. 250 – 350 people at a time.

Mechanics of World's Largest Sauna

Specially designed Todd Right Brain Thinking:

• 3,000 square feet in modular squares using 4'x4′ framing material.
• Side walls: sauna tent material 3 ply oxford. 9′ tall 20′ wide.
• Flooring: cedar flooring.
• Roof: Greenhouse style sauna inspiration from NorthUp in Minneapolis. Clear polycarbonate roofing. Same material It's rated to over 550f. to melt it. The material let's the light in. There is a greenhouse effect with clear polycarbonate as roofing. On sunny Atlanta days, it's about 120f. before lighting to the stove.
• Sauna stoves: 13 large Kuumas. oven for every 200 sf.

Prototype: 200 sf sauna 20'x10′. A great way of testing the temperature of things. How the size of the panels.

Final dimensions of the world's largest sauna

65′ x 45′ with extra 200 – 400′ square feet entry and exit.

Exercising your immune system

Running and Sauna.. they go hand in hand.

Today on the virtual sauna bench, i'm pleased to bring you Sauna Talk: Emma O'Kelly, author of the new book Sauna: The Power of Deep Heat.

We join Emma from her home in North London. And, we hear from Emma how the idea for this book was seeded through the pandemic. Plus, how the health benefits of sauna helped make the book happen.

In the book, Emma does a great job outlining the reported health benefits of sauna, and we touch upon a few of these during our interview.

You wil be transported to how Emma and photographer Maija Astikainen became fast friends, collaborators, and travel partners through the Nordic regions of Europe.

Sauna: The Power of Deep Heat is shipping starting mid September. Pre orders are available now via Amazon and Barnes & Noble.

Editor's note

During Sauna Talk: Emma O'Kelly, we need to dive deeper into Sauna Brain! What it is and why it's good, but I forgot where I left my towel and water bottle.

Glenn's notes

I found myself reaching for a pen many times while reading this new book! So, a few excerpts and notes include:

Health Benefits: Good reasons to roast

Sweat

"Sauna makes us sweat which is a good gym work out for the organs and the blood vessels," says Hans Hägglund MD, PhD, a medical doctor and professor at Uppsala University in Sweden.

Sauna Detox

We produce about 0.5kg of sweat in a 30-minute
sauna, and while around 97 per cent of this
is water, studies have shown that some toxins
and heavy metals are excreted too, and sweat
does this more effectively than urine.

Good Stress

Hormetic stress is "good stress". Things like
jumping in a cold pond, or competing in a
marathon, or making a really complicated cake
are examples of good stress.

Temperatures of around 38°C to 40°C stimulate
the immune system

A few other sauna health benefits from our Sauna Talk: Emma O'Kelly

Inflammation

Charles Raison MD, professor of psychiatry
at the University of Wisconsin-Madison (USA),
is an active proponent of this theory. "Since the
1980s, we have known that depressed people
are hotter and find it harder to sweat," he says.
Plus, "The pathways that control our ability to cool
off overlap with pathways that regulate our
mood. Body temperature and mood are
directly linked."

Pain relief

Because blood vessels relax and dilate
in a sauna and blood flow increases to muscles
and joints which can in turn alleviate pain and
stiffness. What's more, sauna causes levels of
beta-endorphins – important pain relievers – to
rise. So, for those living with pain for which there
is no cure, such as rheumatoid arthritis, regular
sauna sessions can provide immense relief.

Immunity

Because blood vessels relax and dilate
in a sauna and blood flow increases to muscles
and joints which can in turn alleviate pain and
stiffness. What's more, sauna causes levels of
beta-endorphins – important pain relievers – to
rise. For those living with pain for which there
is no cure, such as rheumatoid arthritis, regular
sauna sessions can provide immense relief.

Blood Pressure

Laukkanen's seminal study found that those
who took sauna baths four to seven times a
week cut their risk of high blood pressure by
almost half compared to once-a-week sauna
bathers. Why? Well, the most common theory
is that the increase in body temperature during
sauna causes blood vessels to dilate, which can
increase blood flow and improve the function of
the endothelium – the tissue that lines the inside
of blood vessels.

"Nature teaches more than
she preaches. There are no sermons
in stones. It is easier to get a spark
out of a stone than a moral."
John Burroughs,
The Writings of John Burroughs, 1913

Today on the global sauna bench, we Sauna Talk with Mikkel Aaland from inside and just back from war torn Ukraine.

Introduction from Minnesota

Before we dive into this episode, I'd like to paint a picture of where I am sitting and what i'm thinking about. I am speaking to you while sitting on my deck at our island cabin in Northern Minnesota. I can see about 8 miles to the East, along a shoreline dotted with islands and outcroppings of birch and pine. It's a crystal clear day with light puffy clouds across the horizon. I'm in shorts, barefoot, and have just immersed myself from a cool morning swim. Random cold exposure being that much more effective than deliberate. There are no airplanes overhead. The aura is of calm and peace.

To my right, 25 or so steps down a walkway through the woods, sits our cabin sauna that we built in 1996. Original stove. Original design, it's been my thermal tranquil oasis for decades. It exudes spiritual patina. Those of you with your own saunas know what i'm talking about. In sauna we are transformed with peace and tranquility.

I recently turned 60. I am scaling down my professional career in the food industry. Gratefully, I am free from contractual bullshit in the sauna industry. I get to work with who I like, and most all of us are really cool, thoughtful, conscious people. I am feeling mighty blessed, and in times like these, sitting quietly on the sauna bench or on the dock between sauna rounds, If i listen quietly enough, i can hear soft voices of people, even half way around the world, miles less fortunate. Can you listen quietly enough to hear their voices?

And speaking of really cool, thoughtful, conscious people, I'd like to reintroduce to you Mikkel Aaland. Let's have Mikkel help us hear these voices.

Mikkel from Ukraine: three time Sauna Talk guest

It's hard to put into words the respect and appreciation I have for Mikkel. With this episode, he has become a third time guest to the Sauna Talk podcast, outnumbering most all others by two. It's a lot of Sauna Talk. Yet Mikkel, to me, brings Sauna Talk up a notch. Where many see a crescent, Mikkel sees the whole of the moon.

During our July 2016 podcast, we discuss his iconic book Sweat. On our September 2020 podcast, during sauna and the time of Corona, we discuss his Perfect Sweat Documentary project. And now today, you will hear in Mikkel's voice how Ukrainians are dealing with the invasion of their country from within Ukraine. This is his third trip into Ukraine since the invasion. And with each trip, Mikkel is facilitating bringing a sauna with him to the war torn country of Ukraine.

But this Sauna Talk with Mikkel Aaland episode isn't a downer. I promise you. You will hear about the wonderfulness of what sauna is bringing to the people of Ukraine. And we sauna enthusiasts can put two and two together to get an idea what sauna can do for people in distress. I get choked up during this interview, and that's what sauna can do for us. Like many of us, we can take a lot of good löyly, but our edges can be soft.

I don't know about you, but when I read and hear about the sacrifices and perils happening with the people in Ukraine, I get very bummed out. Can we do something is a valid question. And I'm happy to report, Mikkel Aaland is doing a lot more than just something.

Sauna-Aid

Yes, Sauna-Aid!  Mikkel is quick to compliment many others, yet he is leading the charge on behalf of Sauna Aid, a multinational initiative sponsored by the International Sauna Association.

This is a beautiful story of the magic of sauna. The power of sauna as community, therapy, healing, comradeship, wellness, mindfulness, peace. So many great attributes, let's hear it from the words of Mikkel Aaland.

Today on the virtual sauna bench, we Sauna Talk with Jackie from Cedar Grove Saunas in Northern Maine. Jackie is just back from her sif week sauna pilgrimage to four countries in Northern Europe.

Jackie has built her own saunas, and is four years into hosting guests traveling far and wide to Cedar Grove Saunas. We are kindred spirits of good heat. We share an interest and passion towards the Latvian Pirtus tradition, spearheaded by Biruté and Rimus from the Lithuanian Bath Academy.

Are you interested in bringing plants and herbs into your sauna practice? Jackie helps us better understand this tradition.

Sauna in Nature is bigger than all of us. And thanks to Jackie, we get to hear her voice and values of how she is bringing this spirit forward.

After hearing about mobile saunas Jackie got the idea to start a business and build another sauna to bring to others. She set off in 2019 to convert a horse trailer into a sauna but it wasn't easy or quick. Jackie's high standard of quality, initial lack of carpentry skills, and the trailer's unique challenges (such as all the rounded corners) conspired to extend the build beyond the limits of her patience. Suddenly she wondered whether other people would pay to use her backyard sauna. However, a spa was born.

BONUS: We begin this podcast with a few brief words from my sauna bench, last night. Friends and neighbors from age 8 to 84 share a couple thoughts to warm your sauna spirit.

Today on the virtual Sauna Talk bench, we join Marishi Morchida 持田 摩利支, from the Japan Sauna Institute 日本サウナ総研. Marishi joins us from his apartment in Washington, DC. During this episode, we learn about the active Japan sauna culture. How thermal bathing is intertwined into Japanese culture. You'll learn some key differences between Japanese sauna culture vs. North American in particular. Like many of us, Marishi is a serious sauna enthusiast. Not so much frown serious, but super into it passionate serious. Marishi shared with me that he was a bit nervous to be on Sauna Talk, but I think you'll agree, he comes off just fine.. as if we were right there on the sauna bench… with you!

Link to the 2021 Japan Sauna Institute survey is here.

Hi Marishi, welcome to Sauna Talk.  Please share with us where you are from, where you are now, and what you are doing where you are now. 

I am originally from Japan. I was born and raised in a city called Hiroshima, then I moved to Tokyo for my undergraduate studies. After college, I worked in Tokyo for several years, and that's where I fell in love with the public bathing culture of Japan. People say that Tokyo's population density is one of the highest in the world, but what they don't realize is that Tokyo's public bathing density is also one of the highest. I don't have any data to back this up, but I've visited many major cities in the world, including Beijing, NY, Singapore, and Tokyo is definitely a bathing paradise. Anyway, that's where I fell in love with public baths, and that's where I fell in love with saunas.

After working in Tokyo for 5 years, I wanted to continue my education in the US, so I moved to Chicago to get my MBA. I graduated last year and am now based in Northern Virginia.

Tell us more about your "day job."

I work for a company called Capital One, which is a large financial institution that focuses on the credit card business. What's interesting and scary about the credit card business is that everything you do with your card is captured and stored as data.  I analyze that transaction data and come up with a plan to improve our products or improve our strategy. "Customers don't like the rebate percentage on this product", let's change it. "Customers in the construction industry turn out to be the best fit for our product", let's talk to them more. That's my day job.

Sauna. I sense it is an important part of your life, as well. When did you first become exposed to sauna and describe the type of sauna to which you've been exposed ?

I also feel that sauna is an important part of life! I can't even remember my first encounter with a sauna. It was when I was a small child, and my father and mother were both big fans of hot springs. We visit the local public bath like every month, and when our family plans a family trip, they almost always make sure that the place we're staying at has a high-quality bath for customers. Most public baths and hotels in Japan have saunas, and I just followed my father.

It was not until I started working that I really saw the value and power that sauna has. This is just my personal opinion, but suffering and anguish improve your sauna experience.  When I joined a company, I was just a stupid kid who didn't know how to talk to my boss properly. This is really a big problem because I was working in a big Japanese company with a long history and hierarchical structure, and my boss often picked up my words and scolded me.  I woke up every morning around 5:30 a.m. and worked until 10 to 11 p.m., and when I went home, it was usually midnight. During this period of my life, the sauna helped me a lot. Every day after work, I would go to a gym and just go into the sauna without exercising. I just did nothing there. I would just relax without thinking about my work, enjoy the sauna and cold shower, and then go home. I'm very sure that without the sauna, my life would have been much more miserable. 

As for the type of sauna, I do everything. I like electronic sauna. Traditionally, many saunas in Japan are extremely dry, but lately more and more places have more humid, Finnish style sauna too, I like it. I used to go to Russian banya in Chicago and I loved it too.

Now that you are in the US, you have a special perspective of sauna in two different countries. Two different continents. Please share with us your observations about similarities and differences of sauna in US vs sauna in Japan. 

It's so different, the only similarity I've found is that a sauna is a sauna. Both countries have many electrically heated saunas. That's where the similarities end. 

One big difference I have noticed is where people enjoy saunas. For many people in the US, correct me if I'm wrong, but sauna is something you enjoy at home. Or at least a gym or membership club, a place that only a limited number of people have access to. So when I go to a sauna subreddit, people are almost always discussing what saunas to buy instead of what sauna to go to. 

In Japan, saunas are a major form of entertainment, regardless of gender or age. Public saunas are everywhere, and you just invite your friends, co-workers, or family members to go together. Let's be naked, enjoy the sauna and drink good sake or beer, that's how we deepen the connection with people. 

Another thing is silence. In Japan, you're expected to be quiet in the sauna, and in many spas you can actually see posters that say you have to refrain from talking. But in the U.S., not just in the sauna, it's very common to make small talk with someone you don't know, right? At first I wanted to concentrate on the sauna experience itself, but now I really enjoy talking to people I meet in the sauna.

The Japan Sauna Institute. How did you personally become involved. Give us a history of the organization and your involvement. 

Japan Sauna Institute was established in 2015. It was started as the first research institute focusing on sauna. We're also different from other similar organizations in Japan in that our members are just ordinary sauna users while other organizations are mostly operated by companies. We aim to provide insights from user's perspective, and conduct various studies regarding the sauna industry in Japan. 

I joined the Japan Sauna Institute in 2021, and it was just a coincidence. When I was doing my MBA, I wanted to study data science. I talked to one of my friends, and he said that if you want to study data science, the best way to learn it is to actually write a script to find out something you're interested in.  I was into saunas, so I thought it would be a good idea to analyze sauna data with Python. 

So I scraped data about saunas from all the public baths from some websites, created a big data set, and just played with it. I analyzed the data to find out things like the best temperature of the sauna room, the best temperature of the cold plunge, which district in Tokyo offers the best access to the best saunas. At first, I just wrote an article on my personal blog, but at some point I thought it would be great if I could work with like-minded people, so I googled to see if there were any organizations doing research on saunas. I found the Japan Sauna Research Institute, I e-mailed them, sharing a link to my blog and that I would like to collaborate with them, then Tachibana, the head of the institute, told me that I should just join the institute.

The sauna study. This isn't your first one. Tell us about it's history and how you organize the study, how many participants etc. who they are. How you find them. 

We started the Japan Sauna Survey in 2016, with the aim to provide quantitative data and analysis on the sauna market in Japan. I suppose this is the same in other countries, but the sauna and spa market is very fragmented, and the vast majority of them are not small companies. What this means is that there is not much public data provided by companies and as a result people only talk about sauna based on their perceptions. That's why we thought it was important to provide companies in the industry and sauna enthusiasts with a broad overview of the market. Since then, the Japan Sauna Survey has become our annual work, and especially after Covid, it has become an important health checkup for the industry. The good news of the latest survey is that we have seen a solid rebound in the sauna population after the decline due to Covid in 2021.

The study, and I will publish it in the show notes, reveals some very interesting data. What couple few things stand out to you in the study results ?

One thing I would like to point out is that the sauna population is on the rise again. As everyone knows, the Covid 19 pandemic was terrible, but it really took a toll on the sauna industry in Japan. Japan is one of the fastest aging countries in the world, and people are generally very conservative, and many people stopped going to the sauna. Some cities, including Tokyo and Osaka, enforced a lockdown, so literally public baths in those places were forced to close, which was a huge blow to that business because you still have to pay utilities, you still have to pay rent, all those kinds of costs. The population of casual sauna-goers, which we call "light sauna-goers," is still much smaller than it was before Coverid. It's about 8.5 million now and it was about 15 million before covid, but the medium and heavy sauners, people who go more than once a month, have actually recovered almost to pre-covid levels.

Let's talk about sauna bathing in Japan. One of the aspects that I respect and appreciate is no jankification in the cold plunge. What do sauna bathers do after exiting the hot room and before entering the cold plunge ?

For many sauna enthusiasts in Japan, the cold plunge water is sacred. You have to make sure you either take a shower or do kakemizu, which means scooping water with a small basin and washing away the sweat before using the cold plunge. 

I think this custom has its roots in the hot spring culture of Japan. People are expected to wash their body or do kakemizu before using the hot spring bath, and we have to do the same for the cold plunge.

Electric vs wood fired?

Personally, I like wood-fired saunas a lot, but unfortunately, there aren't many public saunas that have wood-fired saunas.

Sauna tents?

I have no experience with sauna tents. What a shame!

Back to you and sauna. How would you describe good heat ?

Back in Japan, when I was still new to sauna, one of my friends told me that good sauna or good heat makes you sweat, and that's the definition of good heat for me as well. Personally, I like hot sauna with higher than 200 degrees Fahrenheit, relatively humid, and the heat should be dispersed and evenly distributed in the room. In short, I like hot, humid, sweaty heat. 

Are Americans f***ed up (I'm kidding! Am I?)

I don't think so, America is a great country.  It is a land of opportunity and I really enjoy the amount of personal freedom I can never have in Japan. The only thing I would like to say to the USA is that there should be more public bathhouses in the USA.  I really wonder why there are not many public bathhouses in the US. I've been to Russian and Korean spas in Chicago, NY, DC and every time I go I have such a wonderful time. I think part of the sauna experience is meditation. Just focusing on the heat and your body, away from all the outside stimuli from friends or smartphones. In the last decade, meditation has become a big part of many professionals in the US and I think sauna has a great appeal to this segment of the population.

If you could have a mobile sauna and bring it anywhere in the world, where would you like to go and enjoy a sauna session?

I'm a big baseball fan, so I would like to take it to a baseball stadium and watch baseball while taking a sauna.  I'm not necessarily a big fan of this, and you probably won't like this idea either, but a lot of saunas in Japan have televisions in them. Normally, people don't care too much about it, but whenever there is a big sports game, the sauna room has a strange sense of unity. I would like to have a similar but more real experience by bringing my mobile sauna to a baseball stadium.

If you could sauna with anyone in the world, dead or alive, past or present, who would you choose?

I honestly don't have a person's name, but if I had to answer, I would say people who have ever said no to my invitation to go to the sauna. When I was doing my MBA in Chicago, I invited many people to go to the sauna together, and some people said, "No, I'm not interested. I don't understand". I really feel for them, they should at least try it once and then they can judge if it is for them or not. So when I have a change, I want to take those people to the sauna and see their reactions. 

When you know it is going to be a sauna day for you, from the morning of anticipating sauna, to going to sauna, maybe the preparing and lighting of the stove, the first heat up, the first splash of löyly, the first cool down, second, and on, all the way through to going to sleep at night, what is your most favorite moment if you had to pick, one of your favorite moments of sauna? 

This is an interesting and difficult one. I love every part of my sauna experience, from the anticipation to going to bed that day and having the best sleep. If I have to choose one, I like drinking beer with my close friends after 5 sauna sessions. Sauna is the best spice for food and the best spice for creating a bond with people. That's my favorite part.

What do you think is most misunderstood about sauna, that you would like others less familiar with sauna to know and better understand?

Some people in Japan treat sauna as a kind of mental and physical training. It's so hot and uncomfortable, but if you can endure this difficulty for 5 minutes, you'll be fine and healthier. I think they're missing the essence of sauna. Sauna is comfortable. You don't have to stay there for a certain amount of time, you can get out whenever you want and take a cold shower or jump into the cold water to cool down.