Salt Lick with David McMillan & Lesley Chesterman – Details, episodes & analysis

In the inaugural episode of Salt Lick, acclaimed chef/restaurateur turned winemaker David McMillan joins food writer Lesley Chesterman to swap stories about Montréal's intense fine dining scene, while exploring their own rivalry and friendship.

David discusses cofounding the iconic Joe Beef group of restaurants, as well as his recent departure and pivot toward agriculture. Lesley offers insight into David’s competitive streak, while they reflect on the impact classically-trained French chefs have had on Canadian food culture.

Lesley also revists her first Montreal Gazette review of Joe Beef, one which left David shaken despite its positivity; the pair get into the pressures of restaurant reviews, and the shifting landscape of food criticism in the Instagram age.

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Salt Lick is a TNKR Media Original Production. 

 

David and Lesley are warming up as podcast partners while temperatures rise in southern Québec, and the defrost (dégel) brings with it a heavy workload at the farm.

 

Among the topics related to vineyard management, David praises organic winemaking but warns of the bureaucracy needed for certification. He also goes through the various wild animals he must keep away from the grapes including coyotes, deer and a mythical subspecies of bobcat that locals swear isn't, as reported, extinct.

 

For Salt Lick's first news segment, Lesley watched the entire Meghan Markle (Meghan Sussex?) cooking series on Netflix so you don't have to, and has mixed feelings; the pair discuss post-pandemic developments with Québec's onerous wine and spirits regulations, and how necessary alcohol sales are to the success of many restaurants; Québec is also tackling restaurant no-shows with legislation but David is wary of yet more government overreach.

 

Next on Salt Lick: Flour and breadmaking with the show's first guest, Dawn Woodward of Evelyn's Wholegrain Bakery in Toronto.

 

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Salt Lick is a TNKR Media Original Production. 

A bonus episode: David and Lesley catch up for a casual chat about overrated and underrated spring ingredients while both are on the road.

 

Lesley attended a gathering of Canadian chefs aiming to promote sustainable ingredients but the pair is unsure how often seal will be making the menu; David has been promoting his new book  Spilled: Natural Winemakers Stories and Recipes but the only thing he's gushing about lately is his Barnevelder hen Brownie.

 

On creating a more diverse and sustainable food supply, David suggests Canadian restaurants should experiment with venison and unpacks the differences, if any, between Canadian, American and French lobsters. He also offers tips on spinach, asparagus and why you may want to consider overcooking your peas.

 

The hosts also share thoughts on their favourite mushroom dishes, and offer a serious warning about the chef-fueled mythology surrounding false morels, a toxic species that resembles its safer mycelial cousins.

 

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Salt Lick is a  TNKR Media Original Production.

Salt Lick's very first guest helps David and Lesley answer an important question: What happened to bread?

 

Dawn Woodward is the co-founder of Evelyn's Wholegrain Bakery in Toronto and the author of the new  Flour is Flavour. The American-born baker is on a mission to promote whole grain flours and breads, emphasizing that they are not only tastier but nutritious and sustainable when sourced locally.

 

Specializing in Ontario grains, Dawn offers tips on which—rye, barley, oat, buckwheat, spelt, etc.—are best suited to upgrade baked treats like chocolate chip cookies and pop tarts. The trio also discuss why the public should be more educated about grain farming, the challenges of gluten-free baking and the legend surrounding a great Canadian grain on the verge of a comeback, the Red Fife.

 

As spring has arrived in southern Québec, David and Lesley first warm up with a chat about seasonal ingredients, including the underrated snow crab which the hosts lament is mostly exported; they also discuss a bit of politics and interprovincial trade dynamics in the wine business; David also comes out as pro-doggie bag and even explains how restaurant leftovers can be a marketing opportunity.

 

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Salt Lick is a  TNKR Media Original Production.

David and Lesley welcome their second guest, a Joe Beef alum who opened his own spot in 2019 and has since been ranked among Canada's top chefs.

 

Ari Schor, co-owner of Montréal's Beba restaurant, opens up to the hosts about challenges that chefs face in maintaining work-life balance and systemic changes he's made to improve his team's quality of life. While David is uncomfortable with the idea of having protégés, Ari is grateful for the mentorship; the Argentenian-born restaurateur emphasizes the importance of quality market ingredients and prefers serving them in a cozy, intimate setting.

 

The conversation was recorded a few days before the Michelin Guide for Québec was released, where Ari earned a recommendation but not, perhaps controversially, a star.

 

Next time on Salt Lick: David and Lesley break down the Michelin results and the discussions that have resulted.

 

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Salt Lick is a TNKR Media Original Production.

The international standard in restaurant reviewing, the Michelin Guide, has finally arrived and Québec restaurants will never be the same... or does the hype even matter?

 

David and Lesley unpack some of the Michelin results, why they are important to some restaurateurs but not others, and what it takes to become a Michelin-calibre establishment.

 

Lesley also discusses receiving the highest honour bestowed on citizens in her hometown, the Order of Montréal, for her nearly four decades of writing about food and culture. On the farm, David shares a sad update about his favourite hen Brownie while a rescued rabbit named Romulus joins the McMillan household; both have been pets and won't end up on the dinner table but, while we're on the subject, David shares a dependable recipe for lapin confit.

 

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Salt Lick is a TNKR Media Original Production.

It's grilling season for Canadians and David has some tips on how to plan and execute an epic locally-sourced BBQ extravaganza: what fresh meats to look for, making your own sausage, grilling techniques, marinades and sauces, unconventional meat choices like rabbit and duck... He also gets into the benefits of the traditional 'black egg' barbeques and new internet-enabled high-tech smokers.

 

Many culinary detours on this episode of Salt Lick: Lesley has read all the BBQ cookbooks and offers recommendations. As she is experimenting with nut butters, David is spending a lot of time on the tractor and talks more about springtime vineyard management and dealing with wildlife challenges like deer overpopulation, ending with a discussion about how to treat lobster with respect; grilling lobsters, by the way, is tricky and David suggests you boil them, and don't dress them up.

 

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Salt Lick is a TNKR Media Original Production.

David shares some A-lister anecdotes and his mixed feelings about the testosterone-charged bash that kicks off Montréal’s festival season, just as news breaks of a decade-long contract renewal between the city and Formula 1.

But first, Lesley and David get into the quintessential summer drink: lemonade. They share tips on how to make it on the cheap for a crowd, how to dress it up with homemade syrups, and how to turn leftover rinds into lemon sugar. 

Then, much of the discussion focuses on the Canadian Grand Prix, which has taken place in Montréal since the '70s, and the impact this prestigious event has had on the city's fine dining scene; about a month of sales over one weekend, David estimates, for some well-placed restaurants. 

Names dropped include: Danny Devito, Jacques Villeneuve, Sylvester Stallone, Gene Hackman (RIP), Matthew McConaughey, Bruce Willis and George Harrison—that was just one table David's team served at Globe one Saturday night in the early aughts. 

Also, in the kitchen, some underrated sources of protein like squid, pinto or cowboy beans, and hanger steak, with David revealing the recipe to his pungent go-to condiment for beef; watch our Instagram account for that and Lesley's recipe for the original chocolate lava cake by the late Nicolas Jongleux. 

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Salt Lick is a TNKR Media Original Production.

Lesley and David agree that Marc-André Royal is one of Canada's most underrated chef-owners, a talented market cook and impressive entrepreneur.

The Montréal chef-owner of Le St-Urbain recently earned a recommendation in the first edition of Québec's Michelin Guide, and his three (soon to be four) Bête à Pain bakeries are wildly popular with some locals even suggesting he makes the city's best croissant. 

Lesley's glowing 2009 review of Le St-Urbain set the tone among critics who have had little to offer as criticism since: "Royal has, with his food, rejuvenated a sleepy part of the city," and his success story offers inspiration to would-be chef-owners on surviving the restaurant startup phase, maximizing one's space, and creating different revenue streams.

"Marc-André Royal made waves by opening a pretty bare-bones restaurant on a limited budget," Lesley wrote in a Montréal Gazette piece listing him among the most influential restaurateurs of his generation, "and making back his money in six short months."

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Salt Lick is a TNKR Media Original Production.

There's nothing bland about the vanilla industry, argues a Montrealer who has been one of the most important industrial importers of the orchid since the early 1990s.

David van der Walde, Director of Aust & Hachmann Canada, joins Lesley & David for a deep dive on one of the planet's most ubiquitous ingredients, a product as essential for industrial flavour companies as the world's top pâtissiers; how vanilla is farmed, challenges in its distribution, and why its cost has been so historically volatile. He also explains how companies like Häagen-Dazs are able to elevate their products through specialized vanilla sourcing, and if he feels Madagascar's farmers are getting a raw deal.

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Salt Lick is a TNKR Media Original Production.