Explore every episode of the podcast RIDEOUT: The Other Side of Hard

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter In 2006 Nev Schulman got a MySpace message from an eight year old girl in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan who wanted to paint one of his photos. Then her mom wrote. Then a dozen relatives and friends sent Facebook requests. Then her 19 year old half sister started flirting. Nine months in, something was too good to be true, so Nev and his brother flew to Wisconsin, drove into the middle of nowhere Michigan and knocked on the door with the cameras rolling. That footage became Catfish, the buzziest film at Sundance in 2010, and the word everyone now uses for a liar on the internet. MTV turned it into a show that ran 12 years. The Manti Te’o story broke during the first season and Adam Levine played Nev on SNL. In 2020 he finished second on Dancing With the Stars. This week I sat down with Nev, one of my closest friends, to talk about dancing for the president as a kid, the bar mitzvah video business that made him the Darth Vader of the New York film scene, where the word catfish actually comes from, the episode MTV could never air, the Birdman story, and the Instagram DM about a motorcycle ride that got him his wife. We also get into running. He did his first triathlon on a borrowed bike with Casey Neistat in 2015, ran his first New York City Marathon that fall in 3:34 and was under three hours by 2018. We met on the start line in 2021. Since 2023 he has run his marathons as a guide for Achilles athletes. Last Sunday he ran New York with his wife Laura, and she went 3:29. Catfish ended two years ago and he is working on bringing it back. In the meantime he got his real estate license and sells apartments with his dad. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Nev: @nevschulman His book: In Real Life Thanks to AG1 and OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Presenting Sponsor AG1: drinkag1.com/rideout OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Nev Schulman (01:17) He Says Yes to Everything (02:01) Fourth Generation New Yorker (03:02) Dad the Athlete (04:15) Dad and the New York City Ballet (05:13) The Dancing With the Stars Pipeline (07:20) Dancing With NDI (08:02) Performing for the President (09:43) Kens Son at the Principals Office (10:59) Sponsor Break AG1 (12:41) Sarah Lawrence (14:05) The A Cappella Group (14:49) The First Bar Mitzvah Video (16:29) The Darth Vader of New York Film (19:09) A Message on MySpace (21:10) Megan the Half Sister (21:52) Things Got Spicy (23:02) They Sent Him $500 (23:38) Too Good to Be True (24:13) The Horse Farm Still for Sale (24:51) Showing Up at the Door (26:23) Why It Is Called Catfish (28:21) Sundance 2010 (29:40) The Press Tour (31:23) The Manti Teo Story Breaks (31:48) Adam Levine on SNL (32:11) Twelve Years of Catfish (33:03) Get Out of the Bike Lane (33:31) How Max Joined the Show (35:22) Meeting Casey Neistat (36:50) Sponsor Break OMRE (40:31) The Episode That Never Aired (44:14) The Birdman Story (46:16) The FBI Raid (48:01) Dancing With the Stars in Covid (49:57) Leaf Blowers and Confetti (50:27) Partner Jenna Johnson (52:29) Second Place (54:08) You Should Have Won (54:23) A Borrowed Bike in New London (56:07) Sub Three Ambition (56:59) The Sub Elite Corral (58:16) How Ken and Nev Met (59:49) The Headwind Year (1:00:13) New York Is the Hardest (1:01:23) The Book (1:02:14) The Perks of Fame (1:03:10) Meeting Laura on Instagram (1:05:36) Want to Go for a Ride (1:06:48) A Stop at Victorias Secret (1:08:12) Neither of Us Will Quit (1:10:12) Kens Take on Divorce (1:11:44) How Catfish Ended (1:13:15) Rebooting Catfish (1:13:57) Getting His Real Estate License (1:14:55) A Park Avenue Closing (1:15:32) The Schulman Team (1:16:58) Raising Kids in the City (1:19:41) Guiding With Achilles (1:21:46) Running With Cedric King (1:23:02) A Blind Runner in Jerusalem (1:24:17) Running New York With Laura (1:25:20) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Dave McGillivray was 23 when he ran into Fenway Park on August 29, 1978 in front of 32,000 people. He had just run 3,452 miles from Medford, Oregon to Medford, Massachusetts, 45 to 50 miles a day for 80 straight days, raising money for the Jimmy Fund. His mother mailed chocolate chip cookies to post office boxes along the route. That was his PowerBar. I grew up next door in Somerville and remember it as a kid. He was the smallest kid on every team, the last pick, until he figured out that nobody can cut you from running. He has run every Boston Marathon since 1973, 54 in a row. For 36 of those years he worked the race all day, then went back to Hopkinton and ran it at night as the last finisher. He has directed or consulted on 1,400 events, run 175 marathons and logged 165,000 miles. Then one day he could not catch his breath on a run. He ignored it for months. The angiogram showed severe coronary artery disease, and he told the doctor to zip it up and not tell anyone. He changed everything, cut his cholesterol by 100 points and reversed the disease by over 30 percent. It came back anyway. In October 2018 he had open heart triple bypass surgery. Six months later he ran Boston. This week I sat down with Dave to talk about the grandfather who waited for him at mile 24, the day he sat down at mile 21 and looked up at his grandfather’s grave, standing on the start line in 2013 when the call came that two bombs had gone off at the finish, Little Katie’s 26.2 foot marathon, and why just because you are fit does not mean you are healthy. He is 72 and already planning his 55th Boston in April. One of the great Bostonians. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Dave: @dmsedave His book: The Last Pick Thanks to AG1 for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Presenting Sponsor AG1: drinkag1.com/rideout Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Dave McGillivray (00:56) The Last Pick in Medford (01:40) The Sign at Fenway Park (02:30) The Kids in the Jimmy Fund Clinic (03:19) Finishing in Front of 32,000 (04:26) Fifty Miles a Day for 80 Days (05:33) Moms Chocolate Chip Cookies (06:07) The Knee Goes in Nevada (07:25) Kens Ten Miles a Day (09:04) 165,000 Miles and 175 Marathons (09:11) Sponsor Break AG1 (10:49) I Could Not Breathe (11:51) Give Me the Big Boy Test (12:56) Zip It Up (13:27) Is This Reversible (14:31) A Note From the Doctor (15:43) Practically Eating Birdseed (16:24) It Came Back (16:50) Fit Does Not Mean Healthy (17:26) Dr London and the Warning Sign (18:27) Advocate for Yourself (19:32) Three Options (20:05) This Little Race in April (21:02) Open Heart Triple Bypass (22:12) They Fixed Me (24:10) Cheating on the Recovery (24:55) Boston as a High School Senior (25:16) Grandpa at Mile 24 (26:11) You Did Not Earn the Right (27:01) Down Again at Mile 21 (27:31) Evergreen Cemetery (28:14) Taking the Job (28:43) I Forgot to Run (28:56) Last Finisher for 36 Years (29:43) Running With His Daughter (31:01) Start Line Director Now (31:14) Kens Kona DNF (32:26) Winning the Gobi March (33:19) The Only Way to Fail (33:51) 2012 the Inferno (34:16) 26 Seconds of Silence (35:33) Two Explosions at the Finish (36:16) Not Your Race Anymore (37:02) Running It Four Days Later (38:08) 1,800 Medical People (40:06) Security Around the Event (42:14) Dinner With Meb (43:26) No Cheering on the Scooter (44:27) Kens World Championship Win (46:03) Little Katie (46:57) A 26.2 Foot Marathon (48:04) I Beat You (48:42) The Tree in His Yard (49:45) Locked in a Porta John (51:29) Not Santa Claus (52:08) You Have to Earn the Right (53:29) Lance on the Elite Bus (54:55) Matt Damon at the Feaster Five (55:51) Chelsea Clinton Ran Boston (57:42) Falmouth and Beach to Beacon (58:06) Five Olympic Trials (58:50) What Is Next (59:59) Best Friends With Zdeno Chara (1:00:59) Boston Then London Six Days Later (1:02:59) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Noah Galloway was a sergeant with the 101st Airborne, driving the lead Humvee through the Triangle of Death on the night of December 19, 2005. Two weeks earlier his colonel had offered him a slot at Special Forces selection. He said no. He was not leaving his guys for a school. He never saw the tripwire. The blast threw a 9,000 pound armored Humvee into a canal and he sat in chest deep water bleeding until they got him out. He woke up at Walter Reed on Christmas night and his mom told him. Left arm gone above the elbow. Left leg gone above the knee. Jaw wired shut. His wife left while he was still in the hospital. What came next was not the comeback story. He walked out of Walter Reed after seven months, bought a house in Alabama without telling his chain of command, and spent two years drinking with his platoon every weekend. A second marriage fell apart. Then he joined a 24 hour gym and taught himself to work out again. That turned into Tough Mudders, a 58 hour Death Race, the cover of Men’s Health, Ellen, and third place on Dancing With the Stars. This week I sat down with Noah, who drove up from Birmingham, to talk about the invasion of Iraq, the night he got hit, and the part that never makes the highlights. Forty years of anger. The therapy, psilocybin, ayahuasca and ibogaine that finally got underneath it. Why he says he spent most of his life looking at the world through dirty lenses. He is married to Amanda now with four kids, including a son in basic training at Fort Benning and a three year old whose middle name is for Quinn, a young man he sat with through chemo. He speaks all over the country and is building a veterans storytelling show called Unmasked Warrior. One of the most honest conversations we have had. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Noah: @noahgallowayathlete His book: Living with No Excuses Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Noah Galloway (00:19) Growing Up in Birmingham (02:48) Dropping Out at 16 (03:57) September 11th (05:17) I Want What This Man Has (07:24) His Son Is at Fort Benning (10:14) Retire an Old Man or Die in Combat (10:40) Sponsor Break OMRE (12:58) Jump School and the Black Hat (16:27) Falling in Love With the Army (17:36) Waiting on Special Forces (22:07) The Invasion of Iraq (24:18) Petraeus Made Us Look Bigger (26:41) Mortar Rounds Frozen in Ice (29:20) The Triangle of Death (30:29) A Cookie a Gatorade and an RPG (31:46) Black Hearts (32:16) Turning Down Selection (33:14) The Night He Got Hit (34:47) Everything Hit My Door (35:46) Waking Up on Christmas Night (37:57) Smile for Mom (38:44) What Mom Told Him (39:38) She Left While He Was in the Hospital (40:47) Twenty Years to Say It (42:14) The Speech in Orlando (43:15) Quinn (45:33) Forty Years of Anger (46:46) A Small Course Correction (47:21) Psilocybin (48:55) Crying Uncontrollably (49:45) Ayahuasca in Peru (52:04) The Toad (53:52) The Second Time (56:22) An Email Two Days Later (56:54) Ibogaine in Cancun (1:00:12) Eight Hours of Dry Heaving (1:01:32) Leaving the Planet (1:02:00) The Mornings After (1:05:30) Singing Songs He Didnt Know (1:07:58) Dirty Lenses (1:09:31) Two Years at Walter Reed (1:10:09) In Denial (1:11:14) Pulling Away From the Other Guys (1:12:06) Out in Seven Months (1:12:56) I Bought a House in Alabama (1:13:52) Partying Like Rock Stars (1:14:43) When One Person Changes (1:16:08) One Armed Golf (1:16:36) Tough Mudders and Spartan Races (1:18:32) The Mens Health Cover (1:19:28) Ellen Then the Phone Rang (1:20:03) The 58 Hour Death Race (1:20:53) Dancing With the Stars Calls (1:21:40) The Dancing Part Sucked (1:23:24) Dinner With the Entire Town (1:24:35) A Small Taste of Fame (1:26:15) Bret Michaels (1:28:02) Everybody Is Trying to Humble Me (1:28:25) Amanda and the Kids (1:29:18) Speaking (1:30:41) Sam and the Barefoot Dutchman (1:34:27) Unmasked Warrior (1:34:49) The Trojan Horse (1:35:32) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Shawn Johnson was the all around world champion at 15 and an Olympic champion at 16. Gold on the balance beam in Beijing and three silvers, a nationwide tour, and a Dancing With the Stars trophy before she finished high school. She did all of it while trying to hide at school that she was a gymnast. She got there from a gym in West Des Moines where her coach, Liang Chow, took the team to Dairy Queen after practice and had one rule, no skiing. Her parents picked him because it saved gas money, then vetted him for being a good human rather than a good coach. When the national team doctor was Larry Nassar, Chow never let her be treated without him in the room. She calls herself one of the lucky ones. Then everything changed. On her 18th birthday she broke Chow’s one rule, tore her knee apart on the last run of the day at Beaver Creek, skied down the mountain and carried the Olympic torch in Vancouver before she saw a doctor. She came back for 2012 and the obsession that made her a champion had nowhere to go. Eating disorders. A doctor who prescribed Adderall to curb her appetite, which turned into almost every day for five years. Three full knee reconstructions. She retired weeks before the 2012 trials with her heart gone from the sport. This week I sat down with Shawn, a dear friend, to talk about going numb at the Olympics at 16, the five weeks she did not see her parents in Beijing, the armed guard outside her hotel room in Rio, why the US is built for beam and floor and not bars, the blind date with Andrew East that got her to Nashville, and the day she stood in an airport and decided she was done with Adderall for good. Three kids, a podcast with Andrew, a New York Times bestseller they wrote together, and she still flips around with the kids. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Shawn: @shawnjohnson Her book with Andrew: The Courage to Commit Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Shawn Johnson (00:26) Three Kids and Coming Out of the Clouds (01:42) Growing Up in West Des Moines (01:58) A Coach From China (02:57) The Team Doctor (04:00) Never Without Chow in the Room (06:08) In the ER Every Two Weeks (06:41) Her Parents Vetted Chow (08:11) Kids Sports Are Crazy (10:46) Like Winning More Than You Dislike Training (12:07) Sponsor Break OMRE (14:34) World Champion at 15 (15:34) Hooked on Day One (16:27) Nationals at Nine (18:18) Why She Quit (18:36) Gold on the Beam (20:49) How a Team Gets Built (22:41) Bars Think Gumby (25:22) Numb at the Olympics (27:20) Five Weeks Without Her Parents (28:30) An AK 47 Outside Her Door (28:47) Hiding It at School (30:46) The Tour and Dancing With the Stars (31:40) Throwing Up Backstage (33:18) Second to Melissa Rycroft (35:01) The One Rule Was No Skiing (35:14) Her 18th Birthday at Beaver Creek (36:21) Carrying the Torch on a Torn Knee (37:51) I Want to Come Back (39:03) Control (39:48) Eating Disorders (40:39) Adderall (41:34) Obsessiveness Is a Gift (44:24) Ken on Adderall (45:07) Prescribed to Curb Her Appetite (46:50) Standing in an Airport (47:23) Five Years (48:20) Her Heart Was Gone (49:56) You Will Never Beat the Schedule (51:03) A Moms Fear of Getting Hurt (53:14) Mommy Won All the Medals (55:58) A Blind Date Set Up by His Brother (57:22) Stanford and Vanderbilt (58:41) NIL Money (1:00:16) The Apprentice (1:01:32) Five Years in the NFL (1:04:24) Shawn Johnsons Husband (1:05:09) Andrew the Pilot (1:07:51) The Podcast (1:08:52) AG1 and Kat Cole (1:09:29) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Kat Cole grew up in Jacksonville in a family where the men drank, the money was tight and almost nobody kept a job. When she was nine her mom left her father, worked multiple jobs and fed three girls on a $10 a week food budget for three years. Kat’s answer when her mom said they were leaving: what took you so long. She was selling jeans in a mall at 15 to help the family, started at Hooters as a hostess in high school, and by 20 the company had moved her into the corporate office to run training and openings around the world. Vice president at 26. At 32 Roark Capital handed her Cinnabon, 400 stores and $300 million in revenue, getting beaten up by the recession. She spent her first 60 days rolling cinnamon rolls, asked every employee the same three questions, launched a smaller roll, put the brand in grocery stores and tripled it to a billion dollars. COO of the parent company at 36, nine presidents and $3 billion in revenue reporting to her. Today she runs AG1. This week I sat down with Kat to talk about how she leads. The WTF email from a franchisee that cost her millions to make right, the two bosses who called her into an office at 21 and said we are worried about you, the unpopular calls that kept her brands alive through Covid, having her kids at 39 and 41, and the week in March 2020 when her seven month old was on a feeding tube while her franchisees screamed in her AirPods. We also get into AG1. The founder had no idea she was already a customer, why AG1 was air freighted from New Zealand, the millions in human clinical trials, and what is coming next. Where she came from is the whole point. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Kat: @katcoleatl AG1: @drinkag1 Get my weekly letter, Nowhere to Hide, at thekenrideout.com Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Chapters (00:00) Meet Kat Cole (01:25) Growing Up in Jacksonville (03:21) Mom Said We Are Leaving (04:20) What Took You So Long (05:19) Ten Dollars a Week for Food (06:15) Admiring the Christmas Lights (08:01) Working at 15 (08:56) A Second Job in High School (12:15) We Ran the Place (14:28) Kens Weekly Letter, Nowhere to Hide (16:17) In the Corporate Office at 20 (18:28) We Are Worried About You (21:37) Seeking Control (23:07) Like a Light Switch (24:38) The Seed of a Nutrition Obsession (25:10) Sold to Private Equity (27:16) The Call About Cinnabon (28:58) 400 Stores and 300 Million (29:36) Telling Her Boss She Was Interviewing (30:32) Wait for Great (32:16) Inject Belief (32:44) The Same Three Questions (35:01) A Smaller Cinnamon Roll (35:48) A Billion Dollars in Revenue (36:40) The WTF Email (37:53) You Are a Liar (40:19) Killing a Million Dollar Deal (42:56) COO at 36 (43:28) Undercover Boss (44:48) Im Here to Learn (45:34) Single and Running the Company (46:14) I Knew I Would Be a Mother (49:43) Meeting the Love of Her Life (51:10) Engaged in Two Weeks (51:20) Married to an Ocean Rower (53:58) Recession to Covid (55:38) Not a Zero to One Person (57:23) Covid Wiped Out the Revenue (57:58) The Unpopular Calls That Saved Them (1:00:30) Married at Burning Man (1:01:24) Ocean and Arrow (1:02:58) Arrow Gets Sick (1:04:33) Franchisees in Her AirPods (1:05:38) Im Glad Its Me (1:07:47) Health Became the North Star (1:08:57) The Call From the AG1 Founder (1:09:45) Half Expired Powders in the Pantry (1:10:28) Bootstrapped to 160 Million (1:11:04) Air Freighted From New Zealand (1:13:29) Tim Ferriss and the Imitators (1:14:51) I Put It in the Book (1:16:35) Eight Million Lookalikes (1:17:59) Millions in Human Clinical Trials (1:19:16) Kens Insurance Policy (1:19:53) Four Teenagers on AG1 (1:23:05) Longevity Without the Obsession (1:24:34) AG1 Pro With Creatine (1:26:52) Consistency Matters (1:30:00) Habit Snacking (1:30:46) What Is Coming Next (1:32:03) AGZ and the Gummies (1:35:45) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Eddie Gallagher was the number one platoon chief at SEAL Team 7, on his ninth deployment, pushing through the west side of Mosul against ISIS. A year after he got home, NCIS arrested him at a brain treatment clinic, raided his house and pulled his kids into the street at gunpoint. The charge was premeditated murder. The accusers were guys from his own platoon. He spent eight and a half months locked up before trial, in a brig where the guards were told to make him snap, with plea offers that started at 60 years. His wife Andrea ran the Free Eddie campaign while raising three kids. His brother Sean knocked on doors in DC until two congressmen listened. Then Trump tweeted. Then the prosecution got caught spying on his lawyers. Then a medic from his platoon, testifying with full immunity, said he was the one who killed the ISIS fighter. This week I sat down with Eddie, a Navy corpsman who became a Marine scout sniper and then a SEAL chief. We get into the 3 a.m. Navy commercial that got a high school burnout off the couch, a sniper school harder than BUD/S, Hell Week on three and a half hours of sleep, hazing in the teams, and the rules that kept SEALs 800 meters behind the fight in Mosul. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. The torture room next to where his platoon slept. The 17-year-old ISIS fighter dropped on the hood of a truck. The group photo he calls wrong and says he paid for. The Red Bull, the $15 haircut and the sunglasses his accusers called theft. He retired as a chief in 2019 with everything he earned, started the Pipe Hitter Foundation with Andrea, and trains cops and civilians in Florida now. Whatever you think you know about this case, hear it from him. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Eddie: @eddie_gallagher His book: eddiegallagherbook.com Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Eddie Gallagher (02:37) Half the Country Hates You (04:47) Born in Paterson Raised Everywhere (07:33) A Rebellious Kid on Drugs (08:23) A Navy Commercial at 3 AM (11:35) A Corpsman at Sniper School (12:06) Sponsor Break OMRE (15:19) Tougher Than BUDS (16:51) One MRE for Five Days (18:41) Stalking Is a Bitch (21:19) Living on a Ship Sucks (26:23) Watching SEALs Come Over the Beach (31:14) Fast Eddie (34:30) Hell Week on 3.5 Hours of Sleep (38:14) Ken Quit the Ironman in Hawaii (42:25) You Aint Shit (43:15) Reconnecting With Andrea (44:35) Hazing in the Teams (47:32) Throw the First Punch (50:24) A Chair to the Back of the Head (53:13) The OIC Lost His Legs (1:00:41) Im Going to Die for Him (1:05:11) Dropped From Green Team (1:15:24) Taking Over Alpha Platoon (1:17:07) Fast and Loose With the Rules (1:21:45) Mosul (1:24:03) 800 Meters From the Front (1:26:33) An Iranian Backed Partner Force (1:29:01) The Carl Gustav (1:33:50) 600 Yards From ISIS (1:36:03) VBIED Palooza (1:37:53) The Worst of Humanity (1:41:14) On the Hood Like a Deer (1:42:31) The Torture Room Next Door (1:45:59) Bored Team Guys and a Body (1:46:37) I Paid My Dues for That (1:51:48) I Got Him With My Knife (1:53:54) You Called Me a Thief (1:59:06) Ill Fight Every One of You (2:01:11) NCIS Is the Biggest Joke on the Planet (2:02:55) Arrested in the XOs Office (2:04:55) Your Kids Are Outside in Their Underwear (2:12:43) Arrested at the Brain Treatment Center (2:18:50) A Kangaroo Court (2:21:02) Andrea Takes the Reins (2:22:26) Brother Sean Bangs on Doors in DC (2:26:29) Make Him Snap (2:29:34) God Put You in a Prison Cell (2:34:05) Prisoner Gallagher Get Up (2:42:34) Plead and Get 60 Years (2:42:50) Caught Spying (2:46:17) Bernie Kerik and Tim Parlatore (2:48:39) Home to Florida (2:54:12) Lets Get Our Story Straight (2:55:47) A SEAL Planted on the Jury (3:01:31) Trump Offered a Pardon (3:03:23) Full Immunity (3:06:10) I Forgive You (3:09:18) I Killed Him (3:12:16) The Old Man and the Little Girl (3:15:33) Eight Miles in a Weight Vest at 4 AM (3:16:55) Not Guilty (3:20:02) A Call From Trump (3:22:51) The President of the United States (3:25:27) Retired as a Chief (3:28:02) A Dividing Line in the Community (3:30:53) QR Codes to the Evidence (3:34:11) The Pipe Hitter Foundation (3:34:35) Training Cops and Civilians (3:37:42) Shoot Me Straight (3:40:52) A Quad Ripped Off the Knee (3:43:13) Choose Your Discomfort (3:43:32) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Cesalina Gracie had never climbed a mountain. She gave herself six and a half weeks to train, flew to Kathmandu and summited Everest on her first attempt, in the deadliest season in the mountain’s history. Three Sherpas were killed in the Khumbu Icefall while the route was still being set up. But the climb wasn’t the hardest part. Waiting at base camp for the summit window, the man running her expedition sat down next to her in her tent, put his hand on her thigh and whispered something she still refuses to repeat. She pushed his hand off and told him never to talk to her like that again. When the window opened he took the other groups up the mountain and left her at base camp. Then he canceled her Sherpa, ordered her down by radio from a hotel in Kathmandu, and assigned her a 20-year-old who had never climbed Everest. She prayed in her tent for a sign. A Sherpa with a speed record on the mountain walked in, heard her out and said, I’ll go with you. They were told not to call for rescue. They summited anyway. This week I sat down with Cesalina, a black belt from the family that created Brazilian jiu-jitsu and my daughter’s first coach. We get into a grandfather with 21 children, the Gracie Diet, a family where school is optional, moving to London alone at 17 with 1,000 pounds, four years off the mats and starting over at white belt, and why she built a jiu-jitsu program for women only. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. Her first TV hosting job was the Rio Olympics, live in front of 70,000 people. Ten-hour training days in an altitude chamber, building Legos with frozen hands. The $250,000 VIP tents at base camp. The climber who turned around two hours from the summit and told her it wasn’t worth it. Her message to every girl and woman is simple. Never sacrifice your integrity to achieve your dreams. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Cesalina: @cesagracie Her courses: cesalina.com Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Cesalina Gracie (00:56) Speak Up the Moment It Feels Off (06:13) Ken's Daughter's First Coach (07:01) The Posture of a Champion (09:07) Alone in London at 17 (10:34) Confidence Comes From Within (12:17) Sponsor Break OMRE (14:46) 21 Children and the Gracie Diet (16:27) An Italian Dad With Four Degrees (18:44) A Black Belt Is a Degree (19:37) First Time on an Airplane (20:15) A Red Belt Dad and a Ballerina Mom (21:17) Women Stopped at Blue Belt (21:37) Kyra Gracie Fought to Fight (24:18) Why the Little Girls Are Dangerous (26:16) A Movement for Women Not Against Men (28:30) Job Interview on Monday (29:05) Waitress at the First Hard Rock Cafe (31:26) The Queen of Firsts (33:47) Four Years Off the Mats (34:52) A Broken Tailbone at a Tournament (36:45) Hiding the Gracie Name in London (38:45) Dads Screaming in the Stands (43:08) Watching Your Kid Lose (47:12) Don't Let Them Quit (48:31) The Science of Self-Sabotage (52:29) Two Brothers and a Rapper Sister (53:03) Twelve Schools With Her Brother (54:18) Tolerated Not Celebrated (55:27) Translating Kill the Lion (56:11) You Belong in Front of the Camera (56:53) Booking the Rio Olympics (1:00:27) Why Not You (1:01:47) Skydiving With the Expedition Leader (1:05:25) Scared of Heights (1:07:10) Six and a Half Weeks to Prepare (1:09:34) The Invisible Contract (1:10:28) The Deadliest Season in Everest History (1:12:09) What Everest Costs (1:13:41) Training for Everest Since Day One (1:14:16) Ten Hours in the Altitude Chamber (1:15:55) Legos With Frozen Hands (1:20:47) The Descent Is What Kills (1:24:00) The $250,000 VIP Tent (1:26:37) Fifty Days Without a Heater (1:31:29) Not Married No Kids Now or Never (1:35:06) Ladders in the Khumbu Icefall (1:37:47) Turned Around 300 Meters From the Top (1:40:59) A Two and a Half Hour Head Start (1:41:26) A 70 Mile an Hour Windstorm (1:43:05) Too Cold Too Dangerous Not Worth It (1:45:15) Her Sherpa Gets Canceled (1:48:47) Two Bodyguards at Base Camp (1:49:43) The Boundary That Started a War (1:51:20) A Hand on Her Thigh (1:53:08) Don't Ever Talk to Me Like This (1:54:05) Ordered Down From the Marriott (1:55:11) A 20 Year Old Who Never Climbed Everest (1:56:02) A Prayer and a Sign (1:58:03) I'll Go With You (1:59:48) Don't Call Us for Rescue (2:00:54) 23 Hours of Climbing (2:03:53) The Sherpa Who Saved Her Life (2:06:34) Fifty Days Without a Shower (2:08:22) Ken Left Ironman in an Ambulance (2:11:04) The Sting of Quitting (2:12:04) It's a Decision (2:17:11) Never Sacrifice Your Integrity (2:18:56) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Lyle Phillips was shooting heroin in one arm and meth in the other at 18. He sold cocaine in his Kentucky high school, slept in a dog room at a crack house and lived in the backseat of a 1987 Caprice. He got shot at and he shot back. He ran himself off the road at 65 miles an hour and walked out of the wreck holding a bottle of Tanqueray. At 19 his best friend was shot dead in the street over a crack deal. At 21 his childhood friend got arrested on the way back to Lyle’s apartment with two kilos of cocaine and 250 pounds of weed, right after they counted $125,000 in cash on the kitchen table. That night, alone and not even high, Lyle watched someone walk past his second-floor window. He thought it was the SWAT team. Nobody was there. He says Jesus stepped into that room and told him he had six months before he was dead or in prison. The next day he called the parents he hadn’t spoken to in four years and moved home. This week I sat down with Pastor Lyle Phillips of Legacy Church in Nashville. Nick Bare connected us when I told him I was starting to explore faith, and Lyle showed up at my house with books and no sales pitch. We get into the Holiness Pentecostal church he grew up in, 17 days of withdrawal in solitary, rehab inside a mental hospital, and the counselor who told him to go meet his 11-year-old self. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. Plagiarizing his first sermons at his dad’s church. Washing a pastor’s car for $100 a week in Texas. A year and a half in Mozambique. Five years in India, where his team paid off family debts to free more than 400 kids from slavery, and where he lost some of them anyway. He started Legacy Church in September 2016 with a free building and 12 people. Now about 1,200 show up every Sunday. We talk about what a church actually costs to run, who can fire a pastor, Joel Osteen and the prosperity gospel, and why I keep showing up to church feeling like a fraud. His message to me was simple. You don’t have to white-knuckle it. Just keep coming back. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Lyle: @lylebphillips Legacy Church: legacynashville.org Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Pastor Lyle Phillips (01:29) Population 400 in West Kentucky (03:59) Forced to Church Every Sunday (04:54) Holiness Pentecostal Standards (07:42) Altar Calls and Fake Tears (09:01) Abuse Inside the Church (12:45) Sponsor Break OMRE (15:15) A Prophet Walks the Aisles (17:07) Seeing Demons as a Child (18:19) Ken’s Ibogaine Trip in Mexico (23:03) First DUI at 16 (24:04) His Dad and Three Yardsticks (24:57) Bee Fights for Entertainment (27:15) Arrested for Attempted Murder (28:10) A Desert Eagle and a Crack House (29:18) Selling Cocaine in High School (30:28) EYBL Ball With Rajon Rondo (32:33) Carpet Fibers and Speedballs (33:25) A 70-Year-Old Shows Him the Needle (34:54) Running From the Cops on Ten Valiums (35:55) Jail or Rehab (37:20) 17 Days in Solitary (38:27) Rehab in a Mental Hospital (40:11) Meet the 11-Year-Old You (41:20) Only an Addict Gets This (44:02) Two Weeks of Pre-Med (46:51) Waiter Selling Coke to His Tables (48:24) Drive-Bys and Hot Buckshot (49:04) Best Friend Killed in the Street (50:19) Running Himself Off the Road (54:18) $125,000 on the Kitchen Table (57:45) Somebody Walked Past the Window (59:13) Six Months Until Dead or Prison (1:00:33) Calling Home After Four Years (1:02:26) Nine Months of Sermons With Dad (1:05:05) I’m Supposed to Preach (1:07:38) Plagiarizing His First Sermons (1:09:31) Preaching Where He Sold Crack (1:10:13) Ken Feels Like a Fraud at Church (1:13:36) $100 Every Friday in Texas (1:16:28) Moving to Mozambique (1:19:29) A Nonprofit for 13 Kids (1:21:30) Rescuing Kids in India (1:23:17) They Said They’d Have Him Killed (1:25:16) Buying a Child’s Freedom (1:27:30) The Kids He Lost (1:31:06) Nashville Because of the Airport (1:34:12) Meeting Allyson on Skype (1:36:24) Twelve People and a Free Building (1:38:34) What Launch Sunday Costs (1:41:08) Private Jets and Cults (1:43:59) Five Services Every Sunday (1:48:49) Joel Osteen and the Prosperity Gospel (1:51:03) Who Can Fire a Pastor (1:56:09) Nick Bare and Dr. Josh Axe (1:58:09) The Missing Spiritual Part (1:59:30) Better Than Any High (2:00:30) How to Become a Christian (2:02:08) Lukewarm and Jealous (2:03:50) Not Saved by Good Works (2:04:35) Follow Me and I Will Make You (2:07:40) The Gospel of John on His Nightstand (2:11:37) Wes Huff and the Prophecies (2:16:03) 1,200 People Every Sunday (2:19:43) What a Pastor Does All Week (2:21:53) To the Haters (2:23:38) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. 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Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Eryk Anders was the last guy picked. He mailed 125 copies of his own VHS highlight tape to every school he could find an address for and heard nothing back. Then a running back didn’t qualify two weeks before the season, Mike Shula called, and Eryk showed up in Tuscaloosa in Timberland boots claiming he weighed 215. The scale was broken. Thirty minutes later he had a full ride to Alabama. He barely played for two years. After a bowl game where he never saw the field he told his dad he was transferring. His dad told him to stay and get the degree. He died that night. Eryk stayed. Senior year he started for Nick Saban, and in the national championship game against Texas, the team he grew up wanting to play for, he led the defense with seven tackles and the blindside sack and forced fumble that sealed it with three minutes left. Then football was over. Cut by the Browns. Cut in Canada. Arena ball. Cleaning factories with a water lance, a janitor at LabCorp, a customer service line where strangers cussed him out all day. He started MMA at 24 with no combat background, and his wife wrote a $3,500 check to pay off his car so he could quit his job. Two years to the day later he signed with the UFC. This week I sat down with Eryk to get the whole story. The UFC calling when he weighed 238 with ten days to make 185, then knocking out Rafael Natal in the first round. Twenty UFC fights, the Machida decision, the soccer kick in Lincoln, getting judo-tossed by Hector Lombard, 15 pounds cut in 90 minutes and a house bought after every fight. He won his last fight in March at 38, retired in the cage and now runs Ya Boi Fitness Academy in Vestavia Hills, Alabama. He calls himself a C-plus athlete. He just outworked everybody. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Eryk: @erykanders Ya Boi Fitness Academy, Vestavia Hills, Alabama Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Eryk Anders (00:16) Born on an Air Force Base (00:45) Football Was a Religion in Texas (02:02) The Kid Who Wouldn’t Shower (04:12) A Nurse Who Retired a Colonel (06:01) A C-Plus Athlete Who Outworks Everyone (08:02) Friday Night Lights in Bulverde (09:10) 125 VHS Highlight Tapes (09:47) A Scholarship Out of Thin Air (10:33) Mike Shula Calls Hawaii (10:58) Timberlands and a Broken Scale (12:27) Sponsor Break OMRE (16:15) NIL Money and Back Pay (17:56) Don’t Give Them a Reason (18:58) The Dexter McCluster Story (22:16) Everything Turned to a Blur (23:06) Shula’s Oklahoma Drills (23:51) How Saban Changed Practice (27:48) Eating at 2 AM to Keep Weight (29:52) Mess Up at 100 Miles an Hour (32:20) Third-Down Pass Rusher (33:27) Benched in the Bowl Game (34:01) His Dad’s Last Advice (34:45) Texas in the Rose Bowl (36:18) The Sack That Sealed It (37:06) God Status in Tuscaloosa (38:36) Cut by the Browns (41:34) Canada and Arena Football (44:51) Booster Lunches and No Job (46:25) Cleaning Factories With a Water Lance (46:44) Janitor at LabCorp (47:03) Apache Helicopters for Sweden (48:20) Customer Service Hell (50:04) She Paid Off His Car (50:59) Two Years to the Day (51:38) The Amateur Grind (53:29) Wrestlers Make Champions (55:02) Cutting to 185 (56:21) His First Real Knockout (59:15) 238 Pounds and Ten Days Notice (1:00:46) 15 Pounds in 90 Minutes (1:03:46) The Fight Ready Fallout (1:06:34) Life on the Road (1:08:34) Philly Fight Culture (1:09:53) Ken Quit Cold Turkey (1:14:03) Judo-Tossed by Hector Lombard (1:16:44) The Divorce (1:19:29) His Son and His Stepson in Spain (1:20:59) 20 UFC Fights (1:21:43) $12,000 for His UFC Debut (1:22:20) The Soccer Kick Bonus (1:23:14) $260,000 for His Last Fight (1:23:45) Retiring on His Own Terms (1:24:25) What a Kids Gym Needs (1:26:42) Don’t Break Your Toys (1:27:12) Kids Who Can’t Do a Cartwheel (1:31:49) Take the Attributes Out (1:33:26) A House After Every Fight (1:34:27) Ya Boi Fitness Academy (1:35:22) Why Women Need Jiu-Jitsu (1:37:40) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Jessie James Decker was born on a military base in Italy and lived in 14 places before she finished high school. At a sleepover in Newnan, Georgia, two senior girls she had never met pulled up with a bucket of slop they had been saving for weeks and dumped it over her head. Somebody made a page online called I Hate Jessica James. At nine she got on a stage in Baker, Louisiana in a denim vest and red high tops, yodeled a Patsy Montana song and beat every adult in the room. Right out of high school her mom and stepdad loaded a U-Haul and dropped her in Nashville to live with a song plugger. She had a record deal two months later. A gold single, a top 25 debut, opening for the Jonas Brothers. Then she tried to make a country record and nobody in Nashville would sign her. The deal fell apart. The boyfriend turned out to be a loser, her best friend moved out and her family was in Hawaii. No deal, no plan, swearing off men. Then a friend sent her a BlackBerry photo of a Broncos rookie in a white t-shirt with his arms folded. This week I sat down with my friend Jessie to get the whole story. The text from Eric Decker that read like a novel. The phone call on a curb outside a Mellow Mushroom. Four kids and four comebacks, five foot one with nine-pound babies, and the 40,000 women now training with her in the JJD Fit Club. The Kittenish store in Nashville she has run since 2019, just picked up by Macy's, Nordstrom and Dillard's. And The Secret Sauce, her fourth book, written with her mom and her sister, out this week. She never took the SATs, didn't have a drink on her 21st birthday, and cooks dinner every single night. I still don't know how she does all of it. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Jessie: @jessiejamesdecker Her new book: The Secret Sauce, out now. Thanks to OMRE for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors OMRE: omre.co Code "RIDEOUT" Ken's book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Jessie James Decker (01:27) Ken's Daughter Loves Kittenish (02:22) Built Differently (04:03) Gratitude Is Her Superpower (05:33) Ken's Brother and the Way Out (06:20) Military Kid and 14 Moves (06:54) Always the New Kid (08:52) Bullied Like a Scene From Carrie (09:22) A Bucket of Slop at a Sleepover (09:52) The I Hate Jessica James Page (10:12) A Girls Girl Who Never Had It (11:43) Sponsor Break OMRE (14:04) No College and No SATs (14:49) Nine Years Old in Baker Louisiana (15:35) This Is My Job Now (16:02) A U-Haul to Nashville (16:23) Living With a Song Plugger (17:17) Ken Meets BeBe Winans (18:16) Vivi on the High Bar (18:56) Shawn Johnson as Mentor (20:08) Not Even a Drink at 21 (21:50) Signed at 19 and a Gold Record (22:42) A Little Doll Pulled Everywhere (23:15) Opening for the Jonas Brothers (24:06) The Label Wanted Platinum Blonde (24:36) Ken Couldn't Enjoy Sarasota (27:26) A Blessing and a Curse (28:17) Four Kids and the Weight Every Time (30:53) Short People Build Muscle Fast (31:47) She Cooks Every Single Day (32:09) Kids With Abs at Three (33:06) Rock Bottom in Nashville (33:46) Nashville Would Not Sign Her (35:07) No Deal and Swearing Off Men (36:29) The Hockey Player Setup (37:39) A BlackBerry Photo of Eric Decker (38:24) A Text Like a Novel (38:53) The Call on the Curb (39:52) Jambalaya and Stapleton at Exit In (40:25) Too Good to Be True (41:23) Ken Meets Eric at Onsite (41:49) Eric After the NFL (42:53) Like a Back Surgery You Need (44:27) The Brokeback Mountain Walk (45:08) Ken's Retreat in Mexico (46:12) Chainsaw in the Ice Storm (46:48) What Is the JJD Fit Club (48:04) Two Steps and 40,000 Women (48:39) Consistency Is a Superpower (49:13) No One Regrets a Hard Workout (50:20) The Genetics at 20 Are Gone (50:57) Kittenish at Macy's and Nordstrom (51:36) Finding a Partner for Kittenish (52:45) Know What You're Not Good At (53:47) The Secret Sauce (54:23) Food Is My Love Language (55:22) Meat Locker Cold (56:09) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter BeBe Winans grew up a block from Smokey Robinson in Detroit, shoveling his snow for $25 when everyone else paid $2. Stevie Wonder's house was behind theirs. He was the seventh of ten Winans kids, and when his four older brothers got signed by Quincy Jones, BeBe drove the van. Right out of high school he and his sister CeCe auditioned for a Christian TV network in Charlotte. She got the job. He didn't. Their dad wouldn't let her go alone, so BeBe went as her chaperone, planning to work at a grocery store. Then Jim Bakker walked into a rehearsal and told the two of them to sing "Up Where We Belong" as a duet. That is how BeBe & CeCe Winans started. Capitol Records followed, then gold, then platinum, then six Grammys. Whitney Houston sang backup on their first tour and made their outfits herself while Clive Davis lost his mind. What almost nobody saw was the hotel mirror in California at 33. BeBe was 255 pounds and couldn't get through two minutes on a treadmill. His trainer told him it took 33 years to get there, so give yourself more than three days. He got to 180 and never went back. He is 64 now, and I see him running past my house in Brentwood in the rain and on the ice, every day but Sunday. That is how we met. This week I sat down with my neighbor to get the whole story. The fourth-grade poem that made him a writer. Michael Jordan at a Detroit baggage claim telling him to put his head down and listen. Stevie Wonder calling him an incredible writer from the side of the stage. Dolly Parton at the register of the country store down the road. And the tour with CeCe next April, their first in 25 years. One of the kindest people I know, and one hell of a storyteller. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow BeBe: @bebewinans Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code "RIDEOUT" Ken's book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet BeBe Winans (00:40) The Guy Who Runs Every Day (01:18) Jelly Roll Knows Him (02:21) Growing Up in Motown (02:41) Shoveling Smokey Robinson's Snow (03:58) Ten Kids and a Piano (05:16) The Winans and Quincy Jones (06:24) A Poem Called The Wind (07:28) A Catalog of 3000 Songs (08:36) Never Sing Your Own Demo (09:16) Sponsor Break ROKA (11:01) Meeting Whitney Houston (12:10) The Bodyguard Soundtrack (12:30) What the Music Means to People (13:10) Gladys Knight at the Ryman (15:17) Trading Names in a Blizzard (15:47) No Excuses in the Rain (16:10) Nothing Flexes Like Being in Shape (17:13) Rejected at the Charlotte Audition (18:15) Chaperoning CeCe at PTL (18:41) Jim Bakker Makes Them a Duet (19:54) Signing With Capitol Records (20:52) Gold Then Platinum (21:43) Keeping the Solo Rights (23:10) The Mirror in California (24:19) Two Minutes on a Treadmill (24:54) From 255 to 180 (25:45) A Banana in Every State (26:21) Not Donny and Marie (26:44) When One Winans Wins (27:39) Mom's 90th Birthday (28:52) Dad Hollering From the Front Row (29:12) Telling Mom She Can Retire (29:51) Ken Embarrasses His Daughter (31:33) Dad's Last Words (33:06) Sing for 12 Like It's 120,000 (35:37) Greek Theater and Carnegie Hall (36:04) Guards on a Train in Russia (38:44) First Tour With CeCe in 25 Years (39:21) Driving the Van for His Brothers (40:40) Whitney Houston Sang Backup (41:39) Whitney Runs the Tour Bus (44:46) The Lady Who Didn't Know Whitney (45:45) Stevie Wonder Sings Happy Birthday (47:05) Prince in the Next Seat (48:48) Michael Jordan at Baggage Claim (50:48) Dolly Parton at the Country Store (54:43) Ken's Mountain Lion (55:38) Cougars in Vancouver (57:16) Running With Rhinos in Kenya (57:35) Two Kids Who Don't Sing (58:55) Niece Deborah Joy on Greenleaf (59:20) Fifteen Cities in 2027 (01:00:28) Building the Show (01:02:25) Don't Get Addicted to the Applause (01:02:38) A Musical Bound for Broadway (01:03:17) The Business of a Tour (01:05:43) Pull Up Your Brave Pants (01:06:03) Private Shows and Oprah (01:07:24) Eight and a Half Miles Every Day (01:08:15) Lifting Right After the Run (01:09:43) See You in New York (01:10:06) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Anthony Bass was a Division II kid from Trenton, Michigan who threw 88 to 92 like every other college pitcher. Then in the summer of 2007 he watched a rookie his own size named Tim Lincecum throw 98 for the Giants, copied his delivery in the bullpen the next day, and never threw a fastball under 94 in his next outing. Twelve scout envelopes followed. So did a fifth-round pick by the Padres, a $166,000 signing bonus, and 12 seasons in the big leagues with seven teams. What almost nobody saw was how it ended. On an off day in Toronto in May 2023, Anthony reposted a video calling on Christians to boycott Target and Bud Light. His agent called while he was out fishing. He took it down. His wife Sydney told him not to hide who he is, so he put it back up. The next time he ran out of the bullpen at home, his own fans booed him through the entire inning. Eleven days after the post the Blue Jays designated him for assignment, the GM called it a baseball decision, and no other team would touch him. He was 35. This week I sat down with my friend Anthony to get the whole ride. 100 swings off a tee in a freezing garage. The fake call-up, then the real one: a start in Colorado and a win in his debut before they sent him back to Double-A that same night. $900 a month in the minors to $40,000 a month in the show. A perfect game into the sixth in San Francisco. A season in Japan where a 21-year-old teammate named Shohei Ohtani threw 100 on opening day and Anthony landed a remote-control helicopter on his head in the clubhouse. And the 2022 playoff inning where he never recorded an out. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. The scripted apology. The resentment when he came home. What he would do differently. And why coaching kids is the next chapter. This guy can tell a story. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Anthony: @anthonyebass Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code "RIDEOUT" AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout OMRE: omre.co Code "RIDEOUT" Ken's book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Sponsor Break OMRE (00:46) Meet Anthony Bass (03:57) Growing Up in Trenton Michigan (04:30) 100 Swings in a Frozen Garage (05:22) A Railroad Dad Who Played Catch (06:58) Copying Tim Lincecum (10:00) Suddenly Throwing 94 (10:38) Twelve Envelopes at Scout Day (12:38) Sponsor Break ROKA (14:17) Drafted by the Padres (14:56) Eugene Fort Wayne Lake Elsinore (16:52) Who Gets Weeded Out (19:45) Ken Raids the Bruins Equipment Room (22:21) The Fake Call Up (23:23) Starting in Colorado Tomorrow (24:20) Calling Mom and the College Catcher (25:40) Eight Hour Bus Rides (26:43) Swinging Late at 98 (28:40) A Room of His Own at the Ritz (30:05) Meeting Bud Black (30:40) Bass on the Back of the Jersey (33:13) First Batter Carlos Gonzalez (35:30) Winning His Debut in the Rain (36:00) Sent Back Down That Night (36:27) Heath Bell's Three Week Prediction (37:07) Sponsor Break AMP (38:16) Living Out of a Suitcase (39:40) From 900 a Month to the League Minimum (41:15) The 200,000 Pay Stub (44:00) Inconsistent in the Rotation (44:52) A Perfect Game Into the Sixth (46:40) The Triple A Grind (48:05) Traded to Houston (48:34) Hurt and Becoming a Journeyman (50:40) The Fear of Never Coming Back (51:46) Three Hours in a Japanese Grocery Store (52:23) A Teammate Named Shohei Ohtani (52:51) 100 MPH on Opening Day (55:00) Ohtani Hiding in Airports (56:00) Winning the Japan Series (57:41) Landing a Helicopter on Ohtani (59:08) Dodgers Money and the Salary Cap (01:01:36) Turning Down 1.5 Million to Come Home (01:03:25) The Cubs and Hand Foot and Mouth (01:04:40) Closing Games in Louisville (01:05:21) The Mariners Come Calling (01:07:20) Claimed by Toronto (01:07:50) Closing in the COVID Season (01:08:27) A Career Year in Miami (01:09:23) The Playoff Inning Without an Out (01:10:22) Sponsor Break OMRE (01:12:40) The Post (01:14:20) Sydney Says Don't Take It Down (01:15:29) Called Into the GM's Office (01:16:20) A 37 Second Scripted Apology (01:17:45) Booed for an Entire Inning (01:19:04) Released as a Baseball Decision (01:20:27) The Dodgers and Diamondbacks Pass (01:21:40) The Next Chapter Is Coaching (01:22:00) Ken's Recurring Bruins Dream (01:23:12) Fenway and a First Pitch Dream (01:27:54) Middle Tennessee Talent (01:30:33) Training for HYROX Nashville (01:30:50) Ken's Wall Ball Disaster (01:34:40) Confront What Scares You (01:36:09) Four Kids Under Ten (01:38:13) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Marc Hodulich was a high school sophomore when he ran five months on a broken foot. The scan turned into a bone graft from his shin, two pins across his foot and three orthopedic surgeons before one of them would say he might run again. The pins are still in there 30 years later. He went on to run track at Auburn in the SEC, and then he built the hardest event most people will ever finish. Marc is the co-founder and CEO of 29029. Hike up a mountain, ride the gondola down, repeat until you have climbed 29,029 feet, the height of Everest, inside 36 hours. It is not a race. No clock, no trophy, no paid sponsors. It is walking. And since the first event in 2017, only 68 percent of the people who start have finished. A marathon is 98. This week I sat down with Marc, one of my closest friends, to get the whole story. Birmingham. Selling payroll door to door in Manhattan while working two other jobs. Six years in management consulting until a partner told him he did not want to go deep on anything. The Wall Street Decathlon he started on the side that raised millions for pediatric cancer research at Memorial Sloan Kettering. Meeting Jesse Itzler at their kids' flag football practice. Why 29029 has never taken a paid sponsor. The 80-year-old who called the event "frustratingly doable." And the summer he, Jesse and Colin O'Brady did 29,029 feet three ways, on the bike, in the water and on the mountain. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. The day I quit at Kona. What I went through in Mexico. Why Marc deleted email off his phone. And what he means by fulfillment over achievement. Follow Marc: @marchodulich Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code "RIDEOUT" OMRE: omre.co Code "KEN" Ken's book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Marc Hodulich (00:48) Growing Up in Birmingham (02:08) The High School Miler (03:02) Running Track at Auburn (06:22) The Book Scholarship (06:53) Five Months on a Broken Foot (09:27) Raising Chase and Dylan (11:38) Sponsor Break ROKA (13:18) Preparing for an Empty House (15:19) Selling Payroll Door to Door (16:46) Six Years in Consulting (17:50) A Partner Calls His Bluff (18:26) The Wall Street Decathlon (19:44) Scared to Quit (21:11) Who's the Better Athlete (23:28) Bought Out by His Partner (24:26) Why 29029 Has No Paid Sponsors (25:46) The Origins of 29029 (26:14) Running to Flag Football Practice (27:19) Owning Everest in 36 Hours (28:42) An On Ramp to Trail Running (30:54) Earned Luxury at the Ritz (31:59) Sponsor Break OMRE (33:37) Early Mistakes at the First Event (34:29) Hard Things Change People (36:00) A 68 Percent Finish Rate (36:45) Quit Feeling Sorry for Yourself (38:19) The Average Participant Is 50 (39:36) The Day Ken Quit at Kona (40:42) Training for Bad Conditions (42:48) Fulfillment Before the Finish Line (44:07) Teepees at Snowbasin (45:14) It's All Free (46:05) Ken and Rob Show Up Cocky (46:58) Frustratingly Doable at 80 (47:56) No Awards for Finishing First (49:01) Lapping the Field at Whistler (50:22) Negotiating With Yourself (52:48) Honest Conversations on the Mountain (53:27) The Idea Behind TRAIL (55:01) Leadville and Telluride (57:14) Ken vs Tyler at TRAIL (59:12) The Triple, 29029 Three Ways (01:00:43) A 5.5 Mile Swim (01:01:32) Buying a Bike for the Climb (01:04:10) The Hardest Part Was Staying Present (01:04:48) A Text From Chase (01:06:18) Cramping on Lap Five (01:07:02) Whitecaps on the Lake (01:09:19) The Safety Kayak Wake Up Call (01:11:38) Ken's Topanga Canyon Crash (01:13:34) Sitting in It for a While (01:14:44) Joy in Other People Winning (01:15:43) Ray Hicks and the Big Cup (01:16:47) Knowing What You Don't Want (01:17:24) When Racing Becomes Performative (01:18:40) Five Days Off in Mexico (01:19:05) Uncomfortable Plant Therapy (01:24:05) 5 MeO DMT and Ego Death (01:26:18) Grateful for What Matters (01:28:01) Deleting Email Off His Phone (01:31:09) The Runner's High Afterwards (01:31:46) 29029 Goes to Verbier (01:33:26) Fulfillment Not Achievement (01:34:06) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Mike Sarraille was three feet away when Michael Monsoor jumped on a grenade on a rooftop in Ramadi and smothered the blast. Mike and another SEAL took the shrapnel Monsoor’s body couldn’t block. Monsoor didn’t survive. He was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. That day is the middle of the story, not the end of it. Mike dropped out of the University of Colorado to enlist as a Recon Marine. Boot camp, scout sniper school, a Force Recon guarantee, an officer package to Texas A&M. 9/11 hit three weeks after he finished OCS. He laterally transferred to the Navy, made it through BUD/S, and landed on SEAL Team 3 in time for the 2006 Battle of Ramadi. After Monsoor was killed, Mike switched his own name tag onto a departing platoon roster to force his way back into the fight, then survived the Battle of Sadr City against Iranian-backed militia. He was later selected for DEVGRU, did an exchange tour as a troop commander at Delta, and was on the ground in Afghanistan the night Adam Brown, of the book Fearless, was killed. This week I sat down with Mike to talk about all of it: Ramadi, DEVGRU, the NCIS investigation that followed his own attempt to get his teammates recognized for valor, and what he’s building now as Chief Talent Officer of Overwatch Mission Critical, one of the largest labor providers to the data center industry. He’s also ranked the #3 leadership speaker in the world, behind only Simon Sinek, and his new book, Teams, comes out in January. Follow Mike on Instagram: @mr.sarraille. Please subscribe, leave a comment, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Mike Sarraille (02:04) Admiring Dr. Jonny Kim (03:06) Raising Kids Who Compete (05:35) Speaking to the Boston Bruins (07:01) Growing Up in the Bay Area (09:00) Dropping Out of Colorado (09:29) Meeting a Force Recon Marine (11:29) Force Recon, Delta and the Tier One Units (14:42) Marine Corps Boot Camp (16:59) Sponsor Break ROKA (17:15) The Melting Pot of Boot Camp (19:12) The Recon Guarantee and Entrance Test (24:19) Scout Sniper School and the Stalking Phase (26:26) Texas A&M and the Officer Package (28:16) 9/11 Changes the Plan (29:34) Telling the Marine Corps He’s Leaving (30:22) The Lateral Transfer to the Navy (31:11) Mini BUDs and 100 Officers Competing (33:02) Hell Week and a Friend’s Son at BUD/S Now (36:29) Officers and Enlisted on the Same Crew (37:38) Diving School and Almost Drowning (40:07) Checking In and First Deployment to Ramadi (43:38) The 2006 Battle of Ramadi and the Band of Brothers (45:54) Sniper Overwatch for the Army (48:17) The Last Mission Before Rotating Home (49:39) 115 Degrees on the Rooftop (53:31) Playing Through Injury (58:15) The Grenade Hits the Roof (59:39) Michael Monsoor Jumps on the Grenade (01:04:13) Crawling for the Radio Under Fire (01:06:41) Loaded Into the Bradley (01:08:15) Saying Goodbye to Mikey (01:09:45) Meeting Mikey’s Mother (01:11:13) The Extent of His Injuries (01:15:52) Switching Name Tags to Redeploy (01:16:45) The Battle of Sadr City (01:18:58) Applying for DEVGRU Selection (01:20:58) The Psychology of DEVGRU Screening (01:24:21) The Speed of DEVGRU CQB (01:25:45) The Night Adam Brown Was Killed (01:29:45) Carrying Adam’s Body Down the Mountain (01:31:00) Why the Mission Comes Before Family (01:32:19) Delta Versus DEVGRU (01:33:36) Divorce and a Tour at Texas (01:37:29) Retiring Without a Ceremony (01:38:51) Becoming a Fox News Contributor (01:45:30) Founding Talent War Group (01:47:15) Selling the Company to Overwatch (01:48:44) What Overwatch Mission Critical Does (01:51:22) China and Data Center Misinformation (01:54:15) The Truth About Water and Power (01:59:41) The Cibolo Town Hall Bloodbath (02:02:34) The Case for Small Modular Reactors (02:03:25) How Triple Seven Started (02:08:34) Should We Be in Iran (02:14:45) The Maduro Raid in Venezuela (02:16:14) Reacting to the Delta Force Raid (02:18:27) Drone Warfare and Unit Economics (02:22:56) Blue Collar Millionaires and Forge Now (02:28:57) The Eddie Gallagher Case (02:32:19) Investigated by NCIS (02:39:14) Announcing His New Book Teams (02:47:37) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Clay Moss looked like the healthiest guy at Ole Miss. He trained six days a week and got strep throat every other month for four straight years. Twenty-two documented cases. Every visit ended the same way: a steroid shot, a round of antibiotics, see you next time. Nobody asked how he was sleeping, what he was eating, or how much caffeine he was running on. He got his tonsils out after graduation. Six weeks later he had the worst strep of his life. Then medical school in Jackson, Mississippi, the only MD program in the state. He watched classmates go from all-nighters to Adderall to Xanax to sleep aids to antidepressants, and by fourth year he was sitting in the lecture hall where it all started, listening to fifteen of them compare prescriptions. When a doctor offered him Xanax for the panic attacks he had been having since sophomore year of college, he said no and started with sleep, food, meditation, and blood work instead. This week I sat down with Dr. Clay Moss, a Gulf Breeze kid who used to peek through the fence at the Andrews Institute on the walk home from middle school. We get into the 12.5-hour surgery that ended his surgeon dream four hours in, opening his Match Day letter on stage, why your doctor only gets 5 to 12 minutes with you, and what happened to him after the COVID booster that he didn’t feel he could say out loud in med school. We also get into the stuff you can use tomorrow. Why he picks the barbell over the treadmill, why a broken hip after 65 is so dangerous, hormone therapy for women, sun versus sunscreen, tap water, low-dose lithium, and what four sauna sessions a week does for you. Clay has ten months of residency left and 800,000 people following his work. Then he opens the practice 18-year-old Clay needed. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Clay: @drclaymoss Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Dr. Clay Moss (00:15) Growing Up in Gulf Breeze (01:15) Dad’s Houseboat in Pensacola (02:23) Peeking Through the Andrews Fence (04:19) ROKA Sunglasses for Clay (05:49) The Only MD School in Mississippi (06:27) Trauma Surgery Rotation (08:32) The Teacher Who Said Never (09:13) Ken Meets the Panhandle (11:13) Sponsor Break ROKA (13:27) Sixty Percent Out of State (15:22) Chasing Good Mentors (16:17) No Such Thing as Optional Practice (18:34) Rushing Sigma Chi (19:56) Psychological Hazing (23:00) Nike Sponsors Sorority Rush (24:26) The Face of Functional Medicine (26:43) Five to Twelve Minutes Per Patient (27:32) Paying for Your Own Doctor (28:36) Fighting Insurance Denials (30:52) Twenty Two Cases of Strep (32:17) Nobody Asked About Sleep (33:14) The Practice 18 Year Old Clay Needed (35:23) Pay Me Now or Pay Me Later (36:58) Cash Pay Doctors Are Not Selfish (38:33) Sponsor Break AMP (39:29) Florida State Took 190 of 10000 (40:27) Meditation and Lifting in Jackson (40:47) All Nighters to Adderall (41:38) Fifteen Classmates on Antidepressants (44:42) Jelly Roll on Haters (45:50) Cold Calling the DMs (47:21) The Early Huberman Comparison (49:43) Drinking From a Firehose (51:09) The Twelve and a Half Hour Surgery (52:15) Finding Physical Medicine and Rehab (53:47) Match Day on Stage (55:58) Ten Months Left (56:58) A Fifty Patient Practice (58:55) Five Grand a Month for Insurance (01:00:46) Questioning Everything After Covid (01:02:22) The ER Visits He Could Not Talk About (01:03:26) First Panic Attack in Tallahassee (01:04:40) Turning Down the Xanax (01:05:43) Propranolol as a Safety Net (01:07:30) Cardio Versus Strength (01:08:56) Muscle as a Glucose Sponge (01:10:22) Ken’s VO2 Max at 55 (01:12:05) Breaking a Hip After 65 (01:13:45) Women Need the Barbell Most (01:15:24) Why HRT Got Demonized (01:17:53) Absolute Versus Relative Risk (01:20:31) Regrowing an Optic Nerve (01:22:49) Know Why You Take It (01:25:31) Sun Versus Sunscreen (01:28:48) Low Dose Lithium (01:31:08) Never Drink Tap Water (01:33:19) Sauna Four Times a Week (01:37:55) Not Running for Anyone Else (01:39:55) The REP Fitness Garage Gym (01:43:37) Ken’s Trip to Mexico (01:45:31) Ken’s DMT Experience (01:49:50) A Grandfather’s Secret (01:53:25) Tune Out the Negativity (01:53:51) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Dexter McCluster is five-foot-eight and 165 pounds. Bobby Bowden told him he could play defensive back. Urban Meyer told him he could return kicks. He turned both of them down because he knew who he was, and he needed the ball in his hands. He went to Ole Miss instead and became the first player in SEC history to rush for 1,000 yards and catch for 500 in the same season. He ran for 282 yards on Lane Kiffin's Tennessee with the coach who recruited him standing on the other sideline, won back-to-back Cotton Bowl MVPs, and got drafted 36th overall by the Chiefs. In his first NFL game, on Monday Night Football, in the rain, he returned a punt 94 yards for a touchdown. This week I sat down with Dexter to talk about all of it. Becoming a father at 17 and telling his parents within half an hour. Waiting for the draft call on a couch with a Nokia phone and camera crews watching. Buying his mom the house he promised her as a kid. Making the Pro Bowl and then being told he wasn't really a running back or a receiver. We also get into the part that never makes the highlights. Getting named a captain in Tennessee and then getting cut before the season, the year Derrick Henry showed up. Crying the whole drive home. Three retirements. The months he spent on his patio from six in the morning to six at night, drinking more than he should have, until his wife told him, "Don't forget who you are." Today Dexter trains athletes, coaches running backs at Father Ryan, and just had his sixth kid, his first boy. We weigh exactly the same. Only one of us has a Chiefs record. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Dexter: @dextermccluster and @mcclusterfit Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code "RIDEOUT" Ken's book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Dexter McCluster (00:34) You Can't Fake Running Back (02:09) Rookie Blitz Pickup Test (03:19) Growing Up in Largo (04:35) High Jumping at Five Eight (05:31) Dad's No Summer Job Rule (07:20) Six Kids and a Baby Boy (08:06) Mister 2000 Senior Season (09:18) Too Small for Florida State (09:47) A Father at Seventeen (10:59) Orgeron in the Living Room (12:24) Slot Receiver Not Running Back (12:45) Sponsor Break ROKA (14:29) Winning the Starting Job (15:40) Combine Weigh In Nightmare (18:14) Losing His Daughter's Mother (19:46) Culture Shock at Ole Miss (22:34) Patrick Willis and Baby Hester (24:45) Orgeron's Brutal Camp (26:26) First Game Trick Play Touchdown (29:28) Gear Cleats and No Swag (33:10) NIL Money and the Stipend (36:38) Broadcast Journalism Degree (37:28) Begging Houston Nutt for the Ball (38:48) Five Minutes Against South Carolina (39:43) First in SEC History (40:05) Back to Back Cotton Bowl MVP (41:00) 282 Yards on Tennessee (42:56) Orgeron's Message Through Dad (43:36) Scouts Start Sniffing (45:41) Study Tables and Football Classes (47:23) Choosing an Agent (49:34) Combine Prep in McKinney (51:03) Finishing the Degree Twenty Years Later (52:10) Draft Day on the Couch (54:18) The Call From Clark Hunt (56:28) Dad's Number 22 (57:04) First Signing Bonus (58:06) Buying Mom a House (01:01:55) Last Old School Training Camp (01:02:44) Monday Night Football Debut (01:05:10) Just Catch the Ball (01:06:10) 94 Yards Chiefs Record (01:06:44) Cassel Pollard and Small Worlds (01:07:32) Andy Reid and the Pro Bowl (01:08:55) Just a Punt Returner (01:09:12) Twelve Million to Tennessee (01:11:03) Everybody Comes Out of the Woodwork (01:13:36) Derrick Henry Wants 22 (01:15:00) The Grim Reaper (01:15:51) Captain Then Cut (01:17:00) You Will See Me Again (01:17:34) Crying All the Way Home (01:18:00) Ken's Berlin Humiliation (01:19:16) Three Weeks Without a Team (01:20:12) San Diego and Atlanta Call (01:21:49) Fractured Arm and Wanting Home (01:23:11) First Retirement (01:24:04) Toronto Argonauts Detour (01:27:38) Depression on the Patio (01:29:00) Don't Forget Who You Are (01:29:20) McCluster Fit Is Born (01:29:56) One Last Season in Worcester (01:31:46) Father Ryan and Family Now (01:32:19) Neighbors and the Tailgate (01:34:01) Where to Find Dexter (01:34:39) Host Outro and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get Nowhere to Hide, my weekly letter about doing the uncomfortable: https://kenrideout.link/newsletter Jordan Rogers was using heroin at 15. By the time he landed in county jail, he weighed 116 pounds. His parents had spent his college fund on rehab, and he was facing the possibility of 20 years in prison. I know what it’s like to organize your entire life around getting high. There was a lot in this conversation that hit home for me.  We get into his 396 days locked up, what finally changed when he stopped trying to outsmart every rule, and what happened when he read his mother’s account of everything his addiction had put her through. Getting sober wasn’t the finish line. He became a personal trainer, earned his degree at SMU, and spent four and a half years chasing a job at Nike. He went from working in a factory store to becoming a brand director, working with some of the biggest names in sports.  Then he made another hard decision: leaving the job he’d spent years trying to get. We talk about choosing his family, building his own business, and why neither of us wants to give up the freedom of working for ourselves. Jordan didn’t get to undo his past. He had to get honest about it and decide what he was going to do next. That’s what this conversation is about.  Follow Jordan on Instagram: @jordanrogers.  Please subscribe, leave a comment, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it.  Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout   Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Jordan Rogers (00:48) Mindset Over Hype (02:22) Radical Accountability (06:35) Prison Programs Debate (08:37) Guard Life Inside (11:08) Growing Up in Dallas (11:43) Sponsor Break Roka (13:21) Sports Dreams Collapse (16:49) Heroin at Fifteen (21:50) Addiction War Stories (24:57) Parents Intervene (28:36) Hustle to Healing (33:46) First Arrest at Fourteen (37:38) Coke Bust Setup (39:46) Busted Before 19 (40:48) Tiny Bag Big Charge (42:24) Deferred Probation Trap (43:47) Relapse And Highway Chase (45:08) Beating Drug Tests Fails (48:06) County Detox Reality (52:00) Vivitrol And Suboxone (56:56) Kicked Out Sober (01:00:31) Jail Cell Surrender (01:05:21) SAFP Last Chance (01:08:37) Release And Recovery Start (01:09:11) Chasing The Nike Dream (01:10:57) Ekin Role Explained (01:15:12) Hustling To Stand Out (01:18:15) Nike Campus Gearhead (01:18:25) NIL Changed Everything (01:18:54) Outworking the MBA Crowd (01:19:29) Nike Alpha Competitions (01:20:11) Climbing Nike Football (01:21:36) Sneaker Perks and Collections (01:24:21) Golf Gear and Clubs (01:27:31) Moving for Family (01:31:00) Leaving Nike Leap (01:33:33) NIL Consulting Pivot (01:36:37) Unemployable Freedom (01:51:13) Skin in the Game (01:53:54) Wrap Up and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rich Galgano came back from Vegas so broke that a friend had to pay to get his car out of the airport parking lot. He swore he was done gambling. Then he got home, found $500, and went straight back to another casino. I know what it’s like to promise yourself you’re finished and then do the same shit again.  This week, I sat down with Rich to talk about the gambling addiction that was taking over his life, the three-day bender that finally made him ask for help, and walking into Gamblers Anonymous at 23. He told me he hasn’t gambled in nearly 33 years. But getting out of the casino was just the beginning.  Rich and his business partner started Windy City Wire with a $100,000 bank line and a business plan they worked out at Subway. Almost immediately, they were fighting a lawsuit that threatened to shut them down. The story of how he found the right lawyer and fought back is fucking unbelievable. He went on to build a company that sold to Diploma PLC in a $465 million deal in 2020.  We get into recovery, knowing your worth, choosing the right partners, buying back your own business, and why money doesn’t fix what’s going on in your head. Rich also shares the heart problems that forced him to take his health seriously and what he’s building now with Scylos and Reload. This guy can tell a story. Hope you guys enjoy this one.  Follow Rich: @richgalganoHis book: Down to the Wire: The Outlandish Tale of How I Quit Gambling to Win Big. Thanks to ROKA for supporting the show. Please take a minute to subscribe and leave a comment. It makes a huge difference. More about the show at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Rich Galgano (00:40) Sponsor Shoutout Roka (01:08) Growing Up in Bolingbrook (02:01) Old School Childhood Lessons (04:23) Sports Setback Sparks Drive (06:51) Early Gambling and Work Ethic (08:27) College Poker and Party Fight (13:08) Riverboat Casinos Take Over (15:01) Blackjack Wins and Two Lives (16:45) Wire and Cable Sales Origins (21:57) Cold Calling and Big Margins (25:05) Chapter 11 Chaos and Mentors (29:53) Benders and Rock Bottom Signs (30:59) Broke at O'Hare (31:30) Back to the Casino (32:51) Three-Day Betting Spiral (34:30) Calling 1-800-GAMBLER (35:47) First GA Meeting Reality (39:14) 33 Years Clean (40:50) Clarity and Career Ambition (45:47) Starting the Wire Business (48:53) TRO Lawsuit Shock (52:39) GA Connection Finds Real Lawyer (59:16) Dan Purdum Courtroom Turnaround (01:02:22) Depositions and Fighting Back (01:03:14) Leaking Price Fixing (01:04:31) Winkle Breaks Under Deposition (01:06:40) Settlement Without Paying (01:08:44) Business Explodes After Lawsuit (01:09:25) Why Take Investors (01:10:16) Marriage and Staying Grounded (01:12:49) Money Doesn’t Fix You (01:13:42) Raising Money in LA (01:19:46) Taking Chips Off Table (01:20:40) Dodging a Bad LBO (01:23:15) The $6.5M Wire Moment (01:25:08) Private Equity Exit Pressure (01:28:48) The Great Buyback (01:33:04) Selling for $465M (01:35:34) Why Sell to Strategic (01:36:53) Family Office Focus (01:37:09) Cylos Endpoint Vision (01:38:06) Embezzlement and Rebuild (01:38:44) Stateless OS Explained (01:40:48) Go To Market Fundraising (01:41:30) Son Runs Investments (01:42:47) Venture Lessons and Diligence (01:47:53) Health Scare Wake Up (01:53:24) Longevity and Biohacking (01:58:05) Reload Recovery Tool (02:06:00) HYROX and Family Drive (02:09:17) Book Plug and Wrap Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tayler Holder has 19 million followers on TikTok, millions more across social media, and a story that goes way beyond being an internet star. Tayler grew up in tiny Alvarado, Texas, racing dirt bikes and chasing adrenaline from the time he was a kid.  He left traditional high school after ninth grade to train and race motocross, then eventually shifted his focus to Vine, Musical.ly, and social media. He moved to Los Angeles determined to figure it out, literally hanging around the apartment complex where the biggest creators lived until he started meeting them. That hustle eventually led to Magcon, massive social growth, TikTok, the Hype House era, and ultimately building his own creator house called The Compound. We also get into Tayler’s love of fighting. He trained with Ryan Garcia, sparred Canelo Alvarez, fought Gib in front of a massive crowd in Miami, and later took a fight on four days’ notice for $50,000 and won by second-round knockout. Then everything changed. Tayler talks about the public accusations made against him, which he denies, losing brand deals, spending huge amounts of money on attorneys and crisis PR, financial collapse, and reaching such a dark place that he attempted to take his own life. He also tells the story of a former business manager who he says used his American Express account without permission and failed to file his taxes. Eventually, Tayler left Los Angeles for Nashville, wrote “Drive” with Shay Mooney, bought a farm, started pursuing country music independently, and began trying to build a completely different life. We talk about fame, validation, money, fighting, mental health, faith, music, and what happens when everything you thought mattered disappears. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Tayler Holder (00:31) Followers and Brand Deals (01:05) ROKA Gift and Sponsor Shoutout (01:54) Small Town Texas Roots (02:17) Rodeo Life and Adrenaline Kid (03:30) Vine Beginnings and Early Content (04:46) Dropping Out for Motocross (09:21) Brutal Pit Bike Crash Story (14:55) Sponsor : ROKA (16:35) LA Hustle to Boxing Camps (28:55) Sparring Canelo Up Close (29:27) Canelo Shoulder Attack Lesson (29:53) First Fight Nerves (30:19) Backstage With Jake And Tyron (31:51) Sponsor: Timeline (33:23) Vine To TikTok Explosion (36:06) Monetizing Followers And Brands (36:58) Hype House Drama To The Compound (48:42) Accusations Rock Bottom And Faith (58:59) Money and Validation (59:45) Hometown Crabs and Haters (01:00:35) Accusations and Financial Freefall (01:01:10) Business Manager Betrayal (01:04:16) LA Teen Years and Learning Music (01:06:48) Friendship Ends Over Politics (01:08:18) Nashville Move and New Start (01:09:55) Farm Life and E-Bike Chaos (01:17:21) Indie Music and Mental Health Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Missy Franklin is one of the greatest swimmers of all time. She made her first Olympic Trials at 13 years old, and four years later she went to London and absolutely dominated—four gold medals, a bronze, and a world record in the 200 backstroke. But what I loved about this conversation is that we spent just as much time talking about what happened when things stopped going perfectly. Four years after London, Missy went into the Rio Olympics carrying enormous expectations, injuries, sponsor pressure, and the weight of trying to recreate the greatest week of her life. She didn't make a single individual final and describes those eight days as some of the hardest of her life. After bilateral shoulder surgeries and fighting for 18 months to get back, she eventually had to retire at only 23 years old. We talked about all of it—the insane suffering swimmers put themselves through, making the Olympics as a teenager, what it actually feels like to win a gold medal, breaking a world record, turning down life-changing money to swim at Cal, failing publicly in Rio, and learning that sometimes the way you lose says more about you than the way you win. Missy is also in a completely different chapter now. She's a mom of two, she's training for HYROX, she's somehow learning to love running, her husband Hayes is racing professionally in triathlon, and they're building Gold, a goal-setting platform for athletes. I really loved this conversation. Missy is exactly who you hope she is—positive, competitive, thoughtful, and completely honest about both the incredible highs and really difficult lows that came with her career. Hope you guys enjoy this one. Follow Missy: @missyfranklin88 Please subscribe to The Other Side of Hard, leave a comment, and let me know what you think of the episode. Learn more about the show, my upcoming book, and everything we're doing at theothersideofhard.com. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Missy Franklin (00:18) Why Swimming Hurts (00:52) Swimming vs Running (02:45) Husband Triathlon Journey (05:55) Missy Finds Hyrox (06:37) Sponsor Gifts Moment (07:24) Growing Up in Colorado (09:31) Teen Olympic Trials (12:56) Sponsor: Roka (14:36) Support System and School (19:42) London Olympics Breakthrough (31:54) Record Heat Magic (32:14) Celebrity Shoutouts (32:32) Gold Medal Reality (34:11) Parent Reactions (34:45) Sponsor: Wild Roman (35:46) Motherhood Moments (37:19) Learning To Fail (39:40) Staying Amateur (41:54) NCAA Glory Days (43:34) Pro Pressure Spiral (45:27) Rio Trials Heartbreak (50:36) Retirement And Next Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Former UFC fighter Ian Heinisch sits down with Ken Rideout for one of the wildest stories ever told on The Other Side of Hard. Ian grew up in Colorado as an elite wrestler with the talent to compete at the highest levels, but drugs, alcohol, arrests, and self-destruction quickly began overtaking his life. After leaving school and spiraling further, he moved illegally to Canada, worked door-to-door sales, was arrested and eventually deported. Back in Denver, Ian began trafficking ecstasy before being caught in a sting operation. Facing serious charges, he fled the United States for Europe. What followed was extraordinary. Ian eventually landed in Tenerife, where he says he became an international cocaine mule, traveling through Colombia, Venezuela and Aruba and swallowing packages of cocaine to transport them back to Spain. He was eventually caught, sentenced to prison, and spent roughly two and a half years incarcerated in Spain before being returned to the United States. His trip home included Rikers Island and an 11-day prisoner transport back to Colorado. Once free, Ian committed himself to mixed martial arts. He rapidly climbed through the sport, reached the UFC and broke into the top 10 — while privately battling another devastating addiction to opioids. Ian opens up about finding sobriety through his Christian faith, his rise through the UFC, serious health problems, concussion-like symptoms that ultimately forced him away from fighting, and the difficult process of rebuilding his identity once again. Today, Ian is an entrepreneur, works in crypto, and serves as president of Bare Knuckle Ice Wars. This is a conversation about addiction, prison, survival, fighting, faith, purpose, and the possibility of completely changing the direction of your life. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout  Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Ian Heinisch (00:43) Wrestling Roots and Drive (02:51) Addiction Takes Hold (07:47) Rehab Ranch and Expulsion (23:27) Canada Hustle and Chaos (30:49) Border Hustle Into Canada (32:28) Holding Cell Withdrawal Chaos (37:16) Courtroom Slip And Deportation (47:33) Denver Ecstasy Operation Sting (55:37) Europe Run To Coke Mule Trips (01:03:53) Cali Jungle Connections (01:05:41) Parties Culture Shock (01:08:15) Swallowing Balloons (01:12:38) Airport Bust Tenerife (01:19:15) Prison To Rikers (01:35:05) Rikers Survival Night (01:38:16) Marshals Transfer Nightmare (01:40:33) MMA Rise and Oxy Spiral (01:43:48) Faith Turnaround and UFC Run (01:50:24) Health Crash New Purpose Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bernard Pollard earned a reputation as one of the NFL’s most feared hitters — and became known throughout New England as the “Patriot Killer.” In this episode, Bernard sits down with Ken Rideout to talk about the mentality behind his violent style of play, growing up angry in Fort Wayne, Indiana, using football as an outlet, choosing Purdue, and making the jump from a three-call high school defense to the complexity of major college football. Bernard takes Ken inside his NFL career: representing himself, getting drafted by Kansas City, refusing to pay a $45,000 rookie bar tab, the hit that tore Tom Brady’s ACL, being cut after Scott Pioli arrived from New England, battling with John Harbaugh in Baltimore, winning a Super Bowl with six broken ribs, and experiencing firsthand how ruthless the NFL business can be. He also opens up about the dysfunctional culture he encountered in Tennessee, the decision to turn down another opportunity with Oakland and retire, and why walking away ultimately helped him become a better husband and father. Today, Bernard says football was his talent — but teaching, training and developing players is his gift. He shares how Jalen Ramsey became one of his first major training clients and why coaching athletes gave him a new purpose after football. This is Bernard Pollard beyond the hits. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters 00:00 Meet Bernard Pollard 00:34 Embracing the Villain 01:30 Born to Hit 02:32 NFL Safety Rules Debate 04:54 Helmet Pads and Optics 06:24 Fort Wayne Roots 11:31 Anger as Fuel 21:28 Purdue and Going Pro 32:32 Sideline Coaching Tension 33:47 Teachers Versus Coaches 36:00 Protecting Jalen’s Development 37:03 Blackballed From Coaching 38:24 Gruden Example and Ad Break 40:11 Deion Sanders Training Summer 44:34 Declaring and Tiller Fallout 54:46 Draft Day and NFL Reality 01:00:48 NFL Culture Shock 01:01:15 Player Development Mentor 01:01:53 Megan’s Big Sacrifice 01:02:59 Training Camp Reality 01:04:59 Rookie Bar Bill Standoff 01:07:59 First Money Lessons 01:12:27 Brady Hit Fallout 01:17:28 Baltimore to Super Bowl 01:28:14 Owning the Bad Game 01:28:39 Cut Loose in Baltimore 01:30:33 Exit Physical Sabotage 01:33:08 Landing With the Titans 01:34:30 Titans Culture Shock 01:39:45 Walking Away From Money 01:42:14 Retirement and New Purpose 01:50:04 Family Growth and Farewell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kent McGowen spent years enforcing the law. Then he spent nearly two decades behind bars. Kent is a former Houston police officer and Harris County deputy who was convicted of murder after fatally shooting Susan White while serving a felony retaliation warrant in 1992. Kent has maintained for more than three decades that the shooting was justified and that he was wrongfully prosecuted. He takes Ken through the entire case: the informant and stolen-gun investigation that started it, White’s threats, the warrant, the forced entry, the moment he says White pointed a .32-caliber pistol at him, and the three shots that changed his life forever. Kent also details his allegations of misconduct by prosecutors and investigators, his first conviction being overturned on appeal, the disastrous second trial that sent him to prison, and what he witnessed during 19 years inside the Texas prison system. He ultimately walks Ken through the letters that finally brought outside attention to his case, the people in law enforcement who came to his aid, his 2021 release, and the fight he says is still far from over. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout  Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Kent McGowen (00:42) Early Policing Days (04:46) Texas Law Enforcement Breakdown (06:43) Informant and Gun Crew (10:27) Sponsor Break Roka (12:08) Buy Bust Gone Sideways (16:41) Susan White Arrives (25:32) Threats and Retaliation Case (29:59) Phone Records No Link (30:38) Midnight DA Intake (33:17) Warrant Delay Whiteout (35:12) Sergeant Orders Warrant Run (39:11) Calling Suspect First (40:48) Door Knock Escalation (43:59) Legal Theory Unlawful Warrant (47:34) Forced Entry And Shooting (55:19) Aftermath And Scene Chaos (58:39) Deputy Matt And Prior Contact (01:02:50) Captain Harper Statement Shift (01:03:43) Fax Cover Sheet Fallout (01:04:40) Grand Jury Pressure Tactics (01:10:27) Sealed Indictment Arrest (01:12:43) Denholm and the Corrupt Clique (01:20:45) Prosecutor Harassment Campaign (01:26:21) Conviction and Appellate Bond (01:30:32) Appeals Victory and State Pushback (01:33:52) Appeals Win Streak (01:35:33) DA Targets His Wife (01:37:53) Airport Intimidation (01:41:01) Hiring Cogdell (01:43:56) Lawyer Chaos Spiral (01:45:51) Trial Strategy Disaster (01:50:29) Eleventh Hour Warning (01:56:25) Coked Up Closing (01:58:00) Guilty and Bond Revoked (02:00:34) Processed Into Prison (02:03:17) Safekeeping Shock (02:04:40) Intake and Sociology Interviews (02:05:20) Case File Shock and Hidden Discovery (02:06:57) Zimmerman Takes the Case (02:08:31) How Prosecutors Rig Cases (02:09:53) First Units and Bench Warrant Detour (02:11:11) Goree Unit and Karla Faye Tucker Cell (02:14:13) Jury Confusion and No Protective Custody (02:16:48) Price Daniel Unit and Dangerous Cellmates (02:19:50) Juan Flores Heart Attack Crisis (02:28:59) Retaliation Transfer and Solitary (02:30:07) Pack Unit Life and Surviving on Anger (02:32:15) Visits, Parole Setback, and Journaling (02:34:05) Parole Setoff Trap (02:34:51) Corruption And Beatings (02:37:57) Parole Shakedown Revival (02:41:17) Letters That Got Help (02:46:21) Immediate Release Decision (02:50:12) Walking Out After Loss (02:56:07) Life On Intensive Parole (03:01:10) Aftermath And New Cases (03:03:17) Fundraising And Wrap Up (03:04:54) Host Outro And Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

James “Jet” Davies spent more than two decades inside high finance, eventually becoming CEO of Deutsche Bank’s broker-dealer for the Americas. But behind the titles, money, and success was a life that was beginning to unravel. James joins Ken to trace the entire path—from growing up in London and attending an elite all-boys school, where he experienced emotional and sexual abuse, to studying law at Bristol after being rejected by Oxford, entering one of London’s top law firms, and eventually making the leap to Deutsche Bank. He takes Ken inside the brutal culture of London trading floors, the explosion of derivatives, the 2008 financial crisis, and the strange reality of climbing higher while questioning whether any of it was making him happier. Then, in 2019, James crashed. He opens up about self-harm, therapy, his marriage reaching a breaking point, and the process of separating his identity from money and status. When Deutsche Bank ultimately chose not to extend his contract in 2024, the career he had spent nearly 25 years building was suddenly over. Instead of going back, James and his partners bought an 85-acre campus in the Berkshires and transformed it into The Time—a retreat space built around nature, connection, and creating the kind of reset James once desperately needed himself. It’s a conversation about ambition, trauma, money, rejection, burnout, and what happens when achieving everything you thought you wanted still isn’t enough.  Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet James Jet Davies (00:30) Strava Rivalry Origins (01:39) Marathon Times Talk (02:14) London Roots and Schooling (03:09) Inside Elite Boys School (06:02) Abuse and Trauma Unpacked (07:52) Therapy and Healing Stages (10:10) How Predators Gain Access (12:28) Roka Eyewear Sponsor (14:08) Warning Signs at Boarding (15:42) Strict Discipline and Bullying (17:04) Single Gender School Effects (18:59) American Schools and Parenting (22:21) Secondary School Shift (27:49) Competition Winners and Losers (28:56) Sports and the Jet Nickname (30:06) Parents Expectations and Success (31:21) Finding Your Own Path (32:35) Loving Work Now (33:09) Parents Pushing Kids Away (34:17) Trauma Surgeon Passion (35:57) Skincare Ad Break (36:58) Oxford Rejection Story (39:57) Brutal Oxford Interviews (43:34) Setbacks Build Resilience (45:37) Bristol And Posh Crowd (46:08) Law Firm Pipeline (47:45) Derivatives And Leverage (49:35) Market Manipulation Rant (52:37) Deutsche Bank Jump (57:54) Legal Dept Vs Traders (59:02) Breaking Into Trading Desk (01:00:16) UK Trading Floor Vicious (01:00:53) Trading Floor Hazing (01:02:51) London Finance Wild West (01:04:50) Back to Legal and Redemption (01:06:43) Structured Finance Explained (01:07:45) Crisis Unwinding and Promotions (01:10:46) Post Crisis Pay and Talent Shift (01:14:09) New York Move and Culture Shock (01:17:13) American Optimism vs UK Cynicism (01:23:46) 2019 Leadership Pressure Cooker (01:26:43) Mental Health Crash in Finance (01:29:53) Self Harm Confession (01:31:23) Therapist And SSRIs (01:32:50) Couples Session Breakthrough (01:33:55) COVID Reset And Career Shift (01:36:51) Leaving Deutsche Bank (01:40:31) Buying Berkshire Retreat Campus (01:45:04) Running Thyme Retreats (01:46:26) Hospitality Lessons And Rules (01:49:13) Upcoming Running Retreat Promo (01:53:48) Life After Finance Mindset (01:58:30) Wrap Up And Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Scott DeRue has spent his life creating experiences that push people beyond what they thought was possible. Ken sits down with his longtime friend and current CEO of The IRONMAN Group to talk about growing up in small-town North Carolina, being told during his first performance review that he “wasn’t smart enough,” walking away from a lucrative consulting career in search of purpose, becoming a University of Michigan professor and eventually the youngest dean of a top business school, and leaving the security of academia to help lead Equinox through the COVID crisis.  Scott also shares how mountaineering became one of the defining forces in his life, what it took to climb Everest and complete the Seven Summits, the terrifying risks of the Khumbu Icefall and descent from Everest, and why getting to the summit is only half the job.  Now leading The IRONMAN Group, Scott explains why he believes the company is ultimately in the “dream fulfillment business,” what he learned from rebuilding Equinox, why athlete feedback matters, and the decision to bring the men’s and women’s IRONMAN World Championship back together in Kona.  Ken and Scott also revisit the 2023 Gobi March in Mongolia—the race where they first met and Ken somehow went from having never run an ultramarathon or camped to winning the entire thing. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout  Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Scott DeRue Intro (00:32) Gobi March Bond (01:46) Small Town Roots (02:02) Schoolwork And Drive (05:08) Sports And Pole Vault (06:05) UNC And Water Skiing (09:08) From Bio To Business (09:46) Boston Consulting Start (11:16) Sponsor Break Roka (12:56) Brutal Review Lesson (18:41) Quarter Life Crossroads (21:02) PhD Path To Michigan (25:58) Rapid Rise To Dean (28:34) Transformational Teaching (30:43) Money Vs Purpose (32:41) Restroom Empire Moment (34:43) Loving the Work (35:04) From Professor to Dean (37:26) Youngest Dean Pressure (38:52) Mission Driven Leadership (40:28) Sponsor Break Amp (41:04) Mountaineering Origin Story (46:16) Seven Summits Quest (50:02) Everest Risks and Resilience (52:18) Khumbu Icefall Focus (55:46) Summit and Descent Dangers (01:03:35) Equinox During Covid (01:08:51) Rebuilding and Ironman Pull (01:10:13) Ironman Obsession (01:10:43) Taking the CEO Call (01:11:50) Ironman Beyond Triathlon (01:12:51) Lifestyle and Identity (01:15:03) Feedback and Responsibility (01:15:33) Kona War Stories (01:18:00) Dream Fulfillment Mission (01:20:38) Kona Together Again (01:22:10) Designing Wave Starts (01:24:44) Midnight Finish Magic (01:29:43) Will He Race One (01:30:20) Gobi March Memories (01:34:04) Wild Characters and Lessons (01:39:27) Gratitude and Wrap Up (01:40:23) Subscribe and Sponsors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Taylor Cavanaugh’s life has been a cycle of achievement, self-destruction, and rebuilding. Before becoming a Navy SEAL, Taylor had already been expelled from school, arrested repeatedly, survived a violent car crash, and served time in county jail. After multiple branches of the military turned him away, the Navy finally gave him a shot. Taylor made it through BUD/S and Hell Week and eventually served with SEAL Team 7 as a communications specialist, JTAC, and sniper. His deployments took him to Yemen and Iraq, where he called airstrikes, worked alongside local forces, and operated under rocket and mortar fire. But outside the teams, the same patterns that had followed him since his teenage years never fully disappeared. An aggravated assault case nearly sent him to prison. Another alcohol-fueled incident and a positive steroid test eventually ended his SEAL career. Civilian success followed, but so did Adderall, Xanax, opiates, and eventually fentanyl. Taylor went from working in real estate development and venture capital to withdrawing alone in Hawaii, living out of his truck, nearly broke and contemplating suicide. Instead of ending his life, he bought a one-way ticket to France. Taylor walked through the gates of the French Foreign Legion, surrendered his passport, was given a new identity, and started again at the bottom. He spent years running, cleaning toilets, training in the French Alps, deploying to Estonia and conducting jungle operations against illegal gold mining operations in French Guiana. Today, Taylor has turned the discipline that helped rebuild his own life into a coaching business focused on consistency, personal responsibility, and controlling the controllables. This is Taylor Cavanaugh’s story. Follow Taylor: @tcavofficial Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Taylor Cavanaugh (00:20) Gloucester Rough Edges (01:27) Marine Base Upbringing (01:48) Pilots And Air Ops (04:53) JTAC Danger Close (07:38) High School Hustle (09:26) College Chaos And Crash (11:49) Rain Means Change (14:09) County Jail Reality (17:06) Sponsor Break Roka (19:43) Denied Then Navy Shot (22:56) BUDS Cold And Hell Week (29:26) Darkest Conditioning Runs (30:26) Running Form and Gait (31:54) Marathon Mindset Curse (33:03) Gobi Desert Stage Race (34:57) Skincare Ad Break (36:29) Joining SEAL Team 7 (37:19) Peer Evals and Rankings (38:18) Comms and JTAC Track (41:10) Sniper School and Stalking (45:10) Low Vis Intel Ops (46:54) Yemen Deployment Tension (48:56) Iraq Rockets and Base Build (52:32) Assault Charge Fallout (55:19) Court Deal in Boise (57:21) Paying Restitution Hard (57:48) Jail Then Back To Training (58:39) Probation In SEAL Life (01:00:13) Jimmy Buffett Golf Cart Bust (01:02:03) Steroid Test Career Fallout (01:06:22) Leaving Teams For Construction (01:07:27) Adderall Xanax Spiral (01:09:28) Opiates Return Then Fentanyl (01:12:32) High Functioning VC Hustle (01:16:07) Hawaii Withdrawal And Acid Ride (01:19:07) Homeless Suicidal Turning Point (01:23:03) One Way Ticket To Legion (01:24:43) Paris Hostels And Legion Gate (01:26:38) Passport Taken New Identity (01:27:23) Gate Shock Pullups Test (01:29:11) Barracks Vibes Recruit Types (01:30:34) Kenyan Runner Visa Hack (01:33:37) Gestapo Interviews Selection (01:36:32) Starting Over Cleaning Toilets (01:38:04) French Guiana Jungle Ops (01:40:39) Ukraine War Estonia Deployment (01:44:48) Barracks Fights Discipline (01:49:36) Legion Running Culture (01:52:34) Amazon Survival Gold Mines (01:55:19) Gold Flakes Oil Bugs (01:56:11) Amazon Jungle Hellscape (01:57:11) Thriving in Humidity (02:00:13) Running Shoes and Boots (02:01:57) Social Media Sparks Exit (02:12:32) Discipline and Agency (02:18:00) Coaching and Consistency (02:23:33) Closing Thanks and Plugs Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

McKinnon Galloway was diagnosed with NF2 at 16 after a routine MRI for a volleyball concussion revealed two brain tumors. What followed was years of chemotherapy, a phase-one clinical trial, four brain surgeries, radiation, facial paralysis, a cerebral stroke, and the complete loss of her hearing. Her third brain surgery became life-threatening when doctors discovered that her tumor had developed an extensive blood supply. McKinnon nearly bled out, woke up fully deaf, and learned that complications had prevented surgeons from placing the auditory brain implant she expected to receive. Months later, another surgery left her struggling to walk and unable to move one side of her face. McKinnon also opens up about her father’s alcoholism and suicide, the strength she inherited from her mother, the realities of navigating healthcare and insurance, and the daily isolation that can come with deafness. Rather than disappearing into everything she lost, McKinnon built a platform that bridges the deaf and hearing worlds. Now followed by more than one million people across social media, she advocates for better deaf technology, clearer patient communication, and a more personal approach to medicine through her mission of “Humanizing Healthcare.” Follow McKinnon on Instagram: @mckinnongalloway Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout  Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet McKinnon (00:48) Living With NF2 (02:26) Growing Up Charlotte (04:20) Diagnosis At Sixteen (05:44) First Brain Surgery (08:16) Recovery And Questions (10:30) Roka Eyewear Sponsor (12:15) Costa Rica Sea Turtles (13:42) College And Family Strain (15:34) Trials Second Surgery (18:14) Losing Hearing Completely (20:55) Third Surgery Near Death (25:09) Deafness And Implants (27:08) Post Op Complications (30:56) Surgery Complications (32:54) Sponsor Break Amp (33:39) Mom Teaches Independence (35:37) Dad Addiction Spiral (40:55) Losing Her Father (45:03) Faith Trip Bethlehem (47:46) Radiation And Recovery (53:29) MRI Scare And Boston (57:20) Living With NF2 (59:51) Marriage And Work Talk (01:00:50) Insurance Costs Reality (01:02:44) Ambulance Bill Fight (01:03:48) Fees Everywhere Now (01:05:14) Tipping Gone Wild (01:06:18) Driving While Deaf (01:07:43) Handicap Parking Clash (01:10:01) Hardest Part Socializing (01:11:48) Hope for Nerve Repair (01:13:20) Deaf Tech Advocacy (01:14:00) Social Media Origin Story (01:17:06) Handling Online Trolls (01:19:49) Perks of Being Deaf (01:24:14) Humanizing Healthcare Mission (01:26:49) Authentic Content Approach (01:28:53) Brand Deals and Contact (01:29:53) Daily Work and Pivots (01:31:02) Wrap Up and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mishka Shubaly has lived several lives: gifted student, touring musician, Columbia-trained writer, addict, shipwreck survivor, ultrarunner, Yale professor, and the editor who helped Ken Rideout turn his life into a book. Mishka joins Ken for a deeply personal conversation about growing up with a distant father, leaving home for college at 15, surviving a deadly school shooting, and watching his family lose everything shortly afterward. He recounts years of destructive drinking and drug use, getting shipwrecked in the Bahamas, walking for miles without food or navigation, and drinking his own urine shortly before being rescued. They also discuss the realization that finally pushed Mishka toward sobriety, the furious first run that changed his life, becoming an ultramarathoner, nearly joining a reality dating show, and how a cold email led Jeff Bezos to write the foreword to his book. Ken and Mishka reflect on addiction, anxiety, ambition, friendship, marriage, and the difficult process of believing that the life you have built might finally be enough. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Mishka Joins the Show (00:44) Writing the Book Together (02:09) Authenticity Over Advice (03:57) Running Shoe Rabbit Hole (08:31) Frugal Life and Family Roots (12:48) Sponsor Break Roka Eyewear (14:24) Kids and Wastefulness (17:46) Sober Anxiety and Control (21:57) Ibogaine and Rewiring the Brain (23:29) Mishka’s Upbringing and Rocket Scientist Dad (27:34) Family Struggles and Parenting Reflections (32:42) Sponsor Break Wild Roman Skincare (33:46) Divorce Year and Dad Moves Away (34:39) Early College Leap (35:35) Fights and Trouble (36:02) Campus Shooting Trauma (38:29) Divorce and Downward Spiral (44:35) Addiction and New Perspective (48:50) Success and Enough (51:39) Family Pressure and Anxiety (57:36) From Acting to Writing (59:09) Dad Fallout and No Kids (01:03:46) New York and Columbia MFA (01:06:34) Playing It Cool (01:07:12) Celebrity Sauna Stories (01:09:31) Columbia Encouragement (01:11:40) Ivy League Aid Debate (01:13:33) Loans And Burnout (01:15:12) Music Life And Hoarding (01:18:39) Shipwreck Setup (01:22:06) Running Aground (01:25:30) Survival Walk Breakdown (01:30:44) Rescue And Aftermath (01:33:39) SEAL Prep Coincidence (01:35:46) Dating Show Tease (01:36:05) Reality Show Doubts (01:37:58) Dark Side of Reality TV (01:40:13) Lawyer Negotiation Tactics (01:42:20) Dodging the Dating Show (01:44:36) Sobriety Turning Point (01:48:49) First Furious Run (01:52:55) Ultra Lessons and New Highs (01:54:39) Kenya Stage Race Adventure (01:57:09) Love as the New Anchor (01:58:54) Withdrawal and Anxiety Hell (02:01:49) What’s Next Creatively (02:04:15) Bezos Foreword Story (02:06:44) Final Thanks and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Dawn Mussallem was a young medical student when she collapsed and doctors discovered a 15-centimeter tumor wrapped around her heart. She was diagnosed with stage IV diffuse large B-cell lymphoma and told she had only months to live. She endured chemotherapy, a bone marrow transplant and radiation while continuing medical school, eventually graduating first in her class. But surviving cancer came at another cost: the treatment severely damaged her heart. Dawn developed advanced heart failure, received a pacemaker and defibrillator, lost her husband to sudden cardiac death and spent years fighting to stay alive for her daughter. In 2021, with her organs beginning to fail, she accepted a donor heart from a woman who had used intravenous drugs and carried hepatitis C. That transplant gave Dawn a second life. Now an integrative oncologist, endurance athlete and Chief Medical Officer at Fountain Life, Dawn joins Ken Rideout to share what she learned through cancer, grief, heart failure and transplantation. They also discuss the fundamentals of longevity that matter most, including fiber, complex carbohydrates, strength training, VO2 max, heart-disease screening, organ donation and the role of nutrition in cancer survivorship. This is a story about accepting what you cannot control, refusing to surrender your purpose and making every day of a borrowed life count. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout  Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Dr Dawn (01:11) Ohio Roots and Early Running (02:35) Raising Healthy Kids (06:05) Athletics and Strength Training (09:15) College Fitness and Ms Fitness (10:41) Sponsor Break Roka Eyewear (12:22) Carbs Fiber and Performance (19:26) Path to Medicine and Mayo (23:21) Cancer Diagnosis and Survival (31:18) Chemo And Transplant (32:08) Hospital Bike Breakthrough (33:14) Exercise As Medicine (34:18) Transplant Process Explained (35:17) Isolation And Infection Control (36:26) Radiation And Tumor Limits (37:29) Heart Failure After Cancer (38:39) Fertility And IVF Struggles (41:07) Surprise Pregnancy Discovery (43:40) Postpartum Heart Failure Reveal (46:25) Diagnosis And Mayo Recovery (48:57) Devices And HRV Talk (50:36) Fountain Life Heart Data (53:44) Lifestyle And VO2 Priority (57:31) Precision Genomics Testing (01:01:32) Next Gen Lipid Drugs (01:02:16) Metabolic And Inflammation Tests (01:04:37) Loss And Resilience (01:07:21) Diet For Heart Reversal (01:10:35) Near Death And Transplant Listing (01:15:51) Donor Heart Dilemma (01:19:55) Transplant Recovery And Gratitude (01:23:35) Integrative Oncology Explained (01:26:05) Insurance And Breast Cancer Care (01:28:04) Hormone Blockers And Symptom Relief (01:32:09) Closing And Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mark Vins is the co-founder and host of Brave Wilderness, one of the biggest wildlife channels on YouTube. Mark joins Ken to explain how a rejected television concept became a global media brand, why a video featuring the “cow killer” velvet ant gained hundreds of thousands of subscribers in a single day, and what it actually feels like to be stung by a murder hornet, bitten by a giant centipede, and envenomated by some of the world’s most painful creatures. He shares the safety protocols behind the videos, the risks of anaphylaxis, the physical toll of spending nearly 300 days a year traveling, and the lessons Brave Wilderness learned after entering the Hollywood and television system. Mark also takes Ken behind the scenes of filming mountain gorillas alongside armed rangers in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and making his first feature documentary, Reef to Ridge, in the Galápagos. The film follows the ecosystem from the ocean floor to the summit of Wolf Volcano, where fewer than 300 rare pink iguanas remain. This is the story of turning childhood exploration into a global wildlife platform—and using viral entertainment to bring millions of people closer to the natural world. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Athletic Nicotine: https://athleticnicotine.com/rideout Code "RIDEOUT" Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Mark Vins (00:46) What Is Brave Wilderness (01:44) Ohio Roots And Tennis (03:09) Film School And Early Hustle (05:20) From TV Rejection To YouTube (09:07) Sting Videos Go Viral (12:03) Sponsor Break Roka(13:43) Cow Killer Explained (16:34) Filming The Sting Safely (19:30) Anaphylaxis And EpiPens (26:46) Travel Life And Costa Rica (29:13) Poison Frogs And Toxins (32:59) Snakebites And Deadliest Snakes (37:12) Terrifying Cave Diving (38:13) Focus Supplement Ad (38:59) Hollywood Agency Lessons(45:47) Venom Basics Explained (47:04) Murder Hornet Nightmare (52:56) Centipede Bloodbath (56:42) Scorpions Fish and Fireworms (01:04:36) Gorillas and Ranger Risks (01:13:44) Rangers Fitness Talk (01:13:50) Favorite Trips Japan (01:14:42) Galapagos Feature Reveal (01:16:29) Wolf Volcano Expedition (01:17:51) Sharks And Finning (01:21:33) Dehydration Survival Stories (01:24:02) Pink Iguana Deep Dive (01:25:25) Volcano Tourism Risks (01:28:30) Peruvian Amazon Off Grid (01:30:49) Sandflies And Leishmaniasis (01:33:45) Global Wildlife Hotspots (01:35:27) Predators And Mountain Lions (01:42:04) Future Films And Running (01:45:13) Bee Swarms And Safety (01:48:05) Final Thanks And Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Andrew Talansky didn’t get on a road bike until he was 17. Seven years later, he finished 10th overall in the Tour de France. Andrew joins Ken Rideout to tell the story of his unlikely rise from getting dropped on Miami group rides to competing against the best cyclists in the world. He shares how a running injury led him to cycling, why he left college to chase the sport, and how a brutal experience living and racing in Italy nearly ended his career before it truly began. Andrew also takes Ken inside the realities of professional cycling: training with Levi Leipheimer, exchanging words with Lance Armstrong during his breakout ride at the Tour of the Gila, receiving offers from the world’s top teams, and entering the sport as it tried to rebuild trust after the doping era. He explains why even elite amateur cyclists cannot comprehend the level of the Tour de France, what it feels like to descend at highway speeds in a crowded peloton, how riders recover and survive for three straight weeks, and why Alpe d’Huez became his favorite climb while Mont Ventoux became his hardest. Andrew also reflects on winning the Critérium du Dauphiné, walking away from professional cycling while still in his prime, the burnout and missing support that influenced his retirement, and how those experiences now shape his work helping athletes and organizations build healthier high-performance environments. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Timeline: timeline.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Andrew Talansky (00:13) Miami Cycling Roots (02:01) From Running To Bikes (03:45) Gear And Community Support (06:29) Tour Dreams And Fast Progress (08:57) The Real Pro Gap (13:38) Tour Chaos And Crashes (15:52) Risky Descents And Training (20:26) Winning Juniors And Nationals (23:35) Europe Reality Check (26:34) Cal Giant Breakthrough (33:37) Lance Moment At Gila (36:16) WorldTour Offers Roll In (36:32) National Champ Group Ride (37:41) Body Types and Weight (38:08) Doping and Eating Culture (39:47) Blood Doping Reality (41:10) Why Doping Felt Normal (42:52) Racing Clean After Lance (45:10) Joining Slipstream in Italy (46:52) Neo Pro Lessons and TT Talent (48:11) First Pro Race Breakthrough (49:40) First Grand Tour Vuelta (50:35) Olympic Deal Rumors (53:09) First WorldTour Win (56:27) First Tour de France Spotlight (59:55) Equipment and Team Specs (01:02:38) Tour Results and Final Day Rules (01:04:39) Peloton Sportsmanship and Cars (01:08:03) Alpe d’Huez Memories (01:09:06) Crowds Gone Too Far (01:12:43) Team Radio Tactics (01:14:26) Domestiques And Bottles (01:15:14) Hardest Climb Ventoux (01:16:01) Post Stage Recovery Routine (01:19:01) Tour Hotels And Logistics (01:22:10) Malibu Riding Stories (01:27:22) Burnout And Retirement (01:29:46) Dauphine Win Chaos (01:32:04) Cobbles And Roubaix Fear (01:34:40) Triathlon Reality Check (01:37:46) Performance Coaching Today (01:39:40) Wrap Up And Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eric Nicksick never planned on becoming one of the most respected coaches in MMA. He grew up in Las Vegas surrounded by football coaches, learning how to study film, lead a team, master the fundamentals, and separate himself through what Randy Couture later called “things that take no talent”: being early, being prepared, and doing the work. After football, Eric walked into Xtreme Couture before the gym had officially opened. He trained with world-class fighters, became its first paying member, and kept showing up. When Randy Couture asked him to run a single grappling class, Eric said yes. That class grew into a coaching career. Today, Eric has coached UFC champions Francis Ngannou and Sean Strickland and helped build one of MMA’s most respected teams. In this conversation, Eric shares how he learned striking from Ray Sefo, strategy from Randy Couture, and cornering through years of saying yes to every opportunity. He opens up about the danger fighters face, why young athletes need a life beyond competition, how he handles Sean Strickland’s intensity, and the trust he built with Francis Ngannou while helping him confront the wrestling and fear left behind by his first fight with Stipe Miocic. Eric also explains how his friendship with Boston Celtics head coach Joe Mazzulla has changed the way both men think about leadership, preparation, and coaching at the highest level.  Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Warm Welcome and Hats (01:24) Origin Story Setup (01:52) Football Roots in Vegas (03:02) College Ball and Talent Gaps (05:45) Film Study and Fundamentals (10:30) Leadership and Humility (11:42) Roka Eyewear Ad Break (13:22) First Steps in Combat Sports (15:30) Extreme Couture First Day (18:44) Accidental Coach to Gym Manager (23:28) Learning Striking from Ray Sefo (26:38) Cage Geography Traps (27:45) Tape Study Coaching Edge (28:27) Imposter Syndrome Path (30:18) Learning to Corner (32:06) Saying Yes for Reps (33:41) Big Stage Gratitude (36:19) Skincare Ad Break (37:19) Bad Knockouts Aftermath (38:38) Backup Plans Identity (45:10) Coaching Sean Strickland (49:58) Locker Room Boundaries (50:32) Sparring Intensity Control (52:33) Gym Visitor Etiquette (54:25) Bar Guy Reality Check (56:04) Gym Trash Talk Payback (57:45) Francis Origin Story (59:53) Fear After Stipe Loss (01:02:26) Building Wrestling Confidence (01:06:08) Wild Sparring Partners (01:07:38) Trust and Family Bond (01:11:00) Culture and Gratitude Lessons (01:13:56) Travel and Perspective (01:15:47) Coaching With Joe Mazzulla (01:20:28) Wrap Up and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Two-time world champion Regis "Rougarou" Prograis built his career the hard way. He started boxing late, lost everything when Hurricane Katrina destroyed his family's home, sold tickets to fund his early professional career, and eventually fought his way to the top of the sport, becoming a two-time world champion. But behind the belts was a very different story. Regis opens up about paying opponents just to get fights, rebuilding his life after Katrina, career-threatening injuries, management battles, devastating losses, and why he knew his career was coming to an end long before he officially retired. Most importantly, he shares something few elite fighters ever admit: before his final fight against Conor Benn, he didn't want to step into the ring. He was scared, mentally exhausted, and hoping something would happen so he wouldn't have to fight. Instead, he walked anyway. In this conversation, Regis explains why facing that fear ultimately gave him the peace to leave boxing on his own terms. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout  Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Regis Joins the Show (00:24) Retirement and New Combat Plans (01:17) Leaving Boxing on His Terms (02:30) Business Moves After Fighting (04:06) New Orleans Roots and Early Sports (04:53) From Karate to Boxing (08:02) Red Dog Yard Gym Lessons (12:50) Sponsor Break Roka Eyewear (14:30) Katrina and Losing Everything (17:48) Starting Over in Houston (21:11) Savannah Gym and Elite Talent (27:50) Amateur Grind and Confidence (30:40) Sponsor Break Amp Training (31:16) Paying for Tournaments and Jobs (32:41) Family Background and Basketball Love (33:18) Meeting Allen Iverson (34:59) NBA Giants Up Close (35:39) Turning Pro And Paying Opponents (36:50) Ticket Sales Dollar Checks (39:11) Signing With Lou DiBella (40:26) ShoBox Knockout Run (41:54) Eye Injury And Going Broke (47:09) Big Win Joel Diaz Payday (49:22) New Management Wahlberg Berg (53:09) Indongo Statement Win (54:58) World Super Series Explained (57:09) Josh Taylor Fight Setup (58:23) UK Media Mind Games (01:00:49) Fight Night Crowd Influence (01:03:04) Judges And Close Calls (01:04:24) Taylor Confidence And Respect (01:08:07) Life After The Loss (01:11:08) Pandemic And Boxing Purgatory (01:14:40) Back To Champion Status (01:15:41) Movies With Peter (01:21:15) Manager Drama And Lawsuit (01:25:27) Matchroom And Style Adjustments (01:26:33) Haney Loss And Camp Distractions (01:33:33) Aftermath And Catterall Setup (01:35:49) Dropped and Injured (01:36:19) Respect for Catterall (01:36:49) Why Fight in UK (01:37:21) Manager Drama and Bad Deal (01:38:37) Injuries and Decline Signs (01:39:53) Vegas Reset and No Contracts (01:40:51) Conor Benn Netflix Stage (01:41:57) Camp Burnout and Doubt (01:44:07) Fight Day Fear to Switch On (01:49:18) Lessons from the Loss (01:54:34) Peace After Retirement (01:57:29) New Ventures and Businesses (01:58:57) Kids Summer and Fatherhood (01:59:40) Rougarou Mask Memories (02:01:39) Raising Kids Without Pressure (02:03:38) Old School Training Gear (02:04:30) Farewell and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Abdi Abdirahman arrived in the United States as a refugee from Somalia in 1990. He spoke no English, settled with his family in Tucson, Arizona, and went through high school without ever competing as a runner. He did not discover the sport until his sophomore year at Pima Community College. Abdi showed up to his first practice wearing jeans and boots. Despite having no formal training, he finished second on the team. One week later, he ran 15:05 and won the 5,000 meters in his first track meet. That unexpected beginning launched one of the most remarkable careers in American distance running. Abdi became a four-time U.S. champion in the 10,000 meters and represented the United States at five Olympic Games across more than two decades. At 43, he finished third at the 2020 U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials and qualified for his fifth Olympic team. He also became the oldest male runner to reach the podium at the New York City Marathon. In this conversation, Abdi shares the story of leaving Somalia during civil war, adjusting to life in America, accidentally discovering his talent, racing legends like Meb Keflezighi and Haile Gebrselassie, and building a professional career that lasted far longer than almost anyone expected. He also opens up about the business behind professional running, the evolution of marathon training and super shoes, making money through prize purses and appearance fees, and why experience becomes so important over 26.2 miles. Today, Abdi divides his time between Tucson and Ethiopia, where he helps coach and mentor the next generation of elite runners. This is a conversation about talent, longevity, humility, and continuing to show up long after other people think your opportunity has passed. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Timeline: timeline.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Welcome Abdi (01:07) Somalia to Tucson (02:15) Starting Running Late (04:01) Jeans and Boots Debut (06:16) Scholarship to Arizona (08:26) Somalia Childhood (10:17) Sponsor Break (11:55) NCAA to Pro Life (13:11) Olympics and Selection (16:39) Masters Mindset (20:08) Shoe Deals and Money (23:58) Ethiopia and Altitude (27:12) Career Highlights (30:11) Training and Workouts (35:40) Boston 2018 Survival (36:52) Mitochondria Ad Read (37:19) Mitochondria Support Plug (38:25) Cold Rainy Race Start (39:49) Favorite Races Debate (40:44) Marathon Pacing Lessons (45:35) Fueling And Gel Evolution (47:30) Ultras And Recovery Runs (51:03) Biggest Wins And Coaches (54:44) Ethiopia Camp And Rivalries (59:10) Shoe Deals And Super Shoes (01:09:38) Community Book And Farewell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Evan Slaughter grew up in Birmingham, Alabama in a conservative household before addiction changed the course of his life. After battling an early OxyContin addiction and completing rehab, he joined the U.S. Army, earned an Airborne contract, deployed to Afghanistan, and was injured in an IED blast. The pain medication prescribed after that injury pulled him back into addiction. What followed were years of PTSD, arrests, multiple rehabs, and trying to rebuild a life that kept slipping away. Everything changed in 2021. Today, Evan is better known as Fit2Serve, creating comedy videos seen by millions while using humor, honesty, and his own story to help others find hope. His viral skits may make people laugh, but the road that led there was anything but funny. In this conversation, Evan shares his father's addiction, his own battle with OxyContin, Army Airborne school, Afghanistan, PTSD, Veterans Court, recovery, psychedelics, purpose, and why "Fit to Serve" no longer means physical fitness—it means being equipped to serve others. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Evan Slaughter (00:40) Growing Up Alabama (01:12) Church Life and Family Upheaval (01:50) Dad’s Addiction and Recovery (05:56) Finding Comedy Early (06:37) Stand-Up Dreams and Fear (12:38) Alpha Dad Skits and Garage Gym (14:30) Sponsor Break Roka (16:11) School Sports and College Detour (19:02) Lifting and Bench Press Talk (31:11) Sponsor Break Wild Roman (32:34) Dropping Out and Training Career (34:17) OxyContin Addiction and Rehab (37:01) Rehab to Enlistment (38:17) Choosing Army Infantry (39:40) Earning 18X Contract (41:41) Airborne School Basics (44:03) First Jump Nerves (46:56) Hard Landings and Mishaps (49:18) Afghanistan IED Blast (53:48) Pain Pills Spiral (56:38) PTSD and Coming Home (58:34) Pharmacy Sting Arrest (01:01:56) Veterans Court and Rehab (01:04:44) TikTok Breakthrough (01:09:03) Staying Sober and Creating (01:10:28) Influencer Advice and Work (01:12:36) Real Jobs Before Social (01:13:53) Time Value Mindset (01:15:28) Psychedelics For Recovery (01:20:28) DMT Lessons And Integration (01:24:10) Money Doesn't Fix Pain (01:26:51) Motorcycle And Simple Joys (01:30:53) Pickleball And Community (01:34:17) Fit To Serve Meaning (01:38:08) Nashville Move And Friends (01:39:00) Brand Deals Strategy (01:44:24) Wrap Up And Where To Find (01:46:16) Podcast Outro And Sponsors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Matt Cassel's football story shouldn't have happened. He spent his college career at USC backing up two Heisman Trophy winners, Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart, throwing just a handful of passes while wondering if he'd ever get a real opportunity. Most players would have transferred. Matt stayed ready. That decision changed his life. After being drafted by the New England Patriots, he learned behind Tom Brady until Brady suffered a season-ending injury in Week 1 of 2008. Overnight, Cassel went from anonymous backup to starting quarterback of one of the most scrutinized teams in sports. He led New England to an 11-5 season, earned a franchise tag, signed a $63 million contract, and went on to play 14 seasons in the NFL. In this conversation, Matt shares what he learned from Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, the pressure of replacing the greatest quarterback of all time, overcoming years without playing, navigating trades, injuries, personal loss, and why being ready before your opportunity arrives changed everything. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” AMP Fitness: amp.ai/rideout  Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters 00:00) Meet Matt Cassel (00:22) Dad Life and Flag Football (02:00) Leaving LA for Nashville (04:01) Growing Up and Playing Both Ways (05:01) Quarterback Jumps in Speed (07:40) NFL Film Study and Prep (08:32) Sponsor Break Roka (10:45) USC Teammates and Practice Wars (12:59) Tom Brady as Mentor (14:03) Stuck Behind Heisman Winners (16:46) Tight End Detour and Baseball Reset (18:24) Owen Hanson and Prison Reality (20:58) Pro Day and Wonderlic Chaos (24:33) Reading Defenses Like Chess (26:27) Randy Moss Freak Talent (27:49) Standing Tall in the Pocket (31:59) Formation Tricks and Counters (34:25) Sponsor Break Amp Training (35:28) Pro Day Lights Out to Draft Buzz (37:55) Selling the Backup Story (39:16) Finding an Agent (42:08) NFL Workouts Breakdown (43:55) Belichick Draft Call (46:23) Draft Day Celebration (49:48) Rookie Arrival in Foxborough (53:21) Patriots Culture Shock (56:22) Rookie Pay and Perks (59:51) Family and Dad’s Struggles (01:02:08) Dad’s Death During Season (01:05:59) Rookie Hazing and Dinner (01:11:53) Learning from Brady (01:13:07) Brady Work Ethic (01:13:56) Quarterback Perfection (01:15:44) Brady Injury Moment (01:17:10) Thrown Into Action (01:18:40) Bomb To Moss (01:19:52) Overnight Spotlight (01:22:29) Media And Sponsors (01:25:31) First Start Vs Jets (01:27:23) Brady Off Field Kindness (01:30:08) Franchise Tag Shock (01:33:30) Trade And Big Deal (01:36:00) New Life In KC (01:38:22) Coordinator Quits Chaos (01:43:38) Pressure And Mindset (01:47:05) Chiefs Turnaround (01:49:02) Appendix Emergency (01:51:21) Playing Post Surgery (01:52:34) Bernard Pollard Stories (01:55:26) Minnesota And London Start (01:58:01) Bridgewater Mentorship (01:59:29) Foot Injury Nightmare (02:04:36) Traded To Dallas Chaos (02:07:50) Cowboys Culture Shock (02:09:15) Facilities And Gear (02:13:12) Game Balls And Deflategate (02:20:28) Life After Football (02:23:24) Final Thanks And Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Danny O'Connor looked like he had everything. A state wrestling champion. An Olympian. One of the top professional boxers in America with a world title shot finally within reach. Behind the scenes, almost nobody knew he had been battling an eating disorder for years. What began as extreme weight cutting in high school wrestling evolved into a life-threatening cycle of starvation, binge eating, dehydration, and dangerous weight cuts that nearly cost him everything. Before the biggest fight of his career, Danny collapsed while trying to make weight, was rushed to the ICU, and watched his dream of becoming world champion disappear. In this conversation, Danny opens up about growing up in Massachusetts, dropping out of school, turning his life around through boxing, making the U.S. Olympic team, the hidden reality of weight-class sports, and the long road to recovering from an eating disorder that almost killed him. This is a conversation about obsession, identity, recovery, and learning that the toughest opponent isn't always standing across the ring. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Athletic Nicotine: https://athleticnicotine.com/rideout Code "RIDEOUT" Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Danny O'Connor (00:43) Growing Up in Sports (01:43) Wrestling Found His Calling (04:14) Weight Cutting Obsession (06:14) Laxatives and Hidden Suffering (08:47) Grades Collapse and Dropping Out (10:54) Arrests and Losing Control (21:40) Court Wake Up Call (23:53) Boxing Saves His Life (27:15) Golden Gloves to Olympic Dream (29:59) Defensive Style and Sparring (33:06) Olympic Trials Outsider (34:01) Sponsor Break Athletic Nicotine (34:45) Trials Heartbreak (35:36) Beating Future Gold (37:11) Beijing Team Breakdown (38:33) Turning Pro Decision (39:48) Weight Cutting vs Disorder (43:20) Gym Hops and Undefeated Run (44:29) First Loss and Texas Move (48:31) Binge Eating Reality (53:20) Daily Yo-Yo Chaos (56:11) Missing Weight Fallout (01:03:41) WBC Shot in Fresno (01:05:43) Urges and Survival Hacks (01:09:07) Binge Spiral at Home (01:10:02) Stepping Away for Help (01:12:02) Learning Recovery Tools (01:14:16) Relapse in Training Camp (01:16:23) Weigh In Day Collapse (01:21:37) Aftermath and Perspective Shift (01:26:28) Specialized Treatment Begins (01:30:31) Freedom and Maintenance (01:35:50) Advice and Raising Awareness (01:39:04) Book Plug and Closing (01:41:12) Podcast Outro and Sponsors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

He taught himself to rap at nine years old, co-founded the rap supergroup La Coka Nostra, got discovered by Ben Affleck for Gone Baby Gone, and went on to act in The Town, Killing Them Softly, and Joker. What almost nobody saw was what was happening behind the scenes. For 23 years Slaine battled alcohol and addiction, through cocaine, OxyContin, and heroin, while chasing two careers most people told him were impossible. It cost him his marriage, his home, and nearly his life, until the only thing that finally outweighed the addiction was the fear of losing his son. In this conversation, Slaine opens up about growing up in the chaos of Boston, the drug culture that swallowed his generation, the record deal he was smart enough to turn down, auditioning drunk for Ben Affleck, hitting rock bottom as a father, the phone call outside a bar that saved his life, getting sober on March 3, 2014, and building Charles River Recovery, a treatment center that has helped more than 7,500 people. This is a conversation about identity, addiction, redemption, and giving it away to keep it. Thank you to our sponsors Our Title Sponsor ROKA: www.roka.com Code “RIDEOUT” Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Slaine (02:00) Boston Neighborhood Chaos (04:10) Childhood Trauma Unpacked (05:00) Fatherhood And Hindsight (08:23) First Drink Relief (09:42) Cocaine The Cheat Code (11:48) Eyewear Ad Break (13:20) Crabs In A Bucket (16:40) OxyContin Epidemic Boston (18:50) Film School Outsider (20:00) Boston Hardens You (24:50) ADHD As A Superpower (28:00) NYC Underground Comeup (31:31) Skincare Ad Break (34:48) The Deal He Refused (39:00) Squatting In A Warehouse (41:30) La Coka Nostra Born (44:00) 13,000 CDs Sold (46:00) Herald Story Affleck Calls (48:00) Drunk Audition For Affleck (51:56) Cleaned Up For Set (53:40) Prime Rib And A Warehouse (56:15) Boston Film Tax Credit (58:00) Vision Board Comes Alive (01:01:00) It All Hits At Once (01:15:45) Losing Everything (01:20:52) Failing As A Father (01:24:10) The Day It Stuck (01:26:57) The News That Should Have Broken Him (01:28:04) The Call Outside The Bar (01:30:00) Learning Humility (01:33:00) Uncle George (01:34:40) The One Belief (01:42:53) Building Charles River Recovery (01:48:20) Don’t Fit In A Box (01:51:15) How To Get Help (01:52:47) Farewell And Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

He graduated from Notre Dame, signed with Top Rank, fought at Madison Square Garden and Cowboys Stadium, starred in national Subway commercials, and earned a shot at a world title. What almost nobody saw was what was happening behind the scenes. For years Mike battled chronic pain, autoimmune disease, misdiagnoses, and Lyme disease while trying to keep his career alive. He fought through broken ribs, endless medications, and training camps where his body was telling him to stop long before his mind would listen. In this conversation, Mike opens up about growing up in Chicago, the pressure to make his father proud, becoming one of boxing's top contenders, the relief that came after his only professional loss, finding purpose beyond the ring, and why he now believes health is the greatest fight of all. This is a conversation about identity, resilience, and knowing when enough is enough. Thank you to our sponsors Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Timeline: timeline.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Mike Lee (00:24) Subway Sponsorship Story (02:05) Chicago Roots Boxing Start (03:43) Notre Dame Bengal Bouts (04:35) Golden Gloves Breakthrough (06:18) Dad Pressure Motivation (08:18) Broken Rib Hospital Night (10:13) Caleb Plant Fight Setup (11:28) Weight Cut Autoimmune Struggles (14:27) Fight Stoppage Relief (17:29) Skincare Ad Break (18:53) Career Perspective Big Moments (20:49) Cowboys Stadium Jerry Jones (24:11) Why Fighting Captivates (25:07) Turning Pro With Top Rank (26:56) Early Pro Opponents (27:32) Target on My Back (27:59) Grooming vs Real Threats (29:46) UFC Losses vs Boxing (31:16) Money and Corruption (32:27) Why Losses Matter (34:57) Top Rank Lion’s Den (36:25) Spence Crawford Aftermath (38:48) Gym Culture and Identity (45:50) Reading Fighters on the Bag (47:11) Mitochondria Ad Break (49:58) Fatigue and Quiet Quitting (54:46) Life After the Spotlight (57:47) Lyme Misdiagnosis Journey (59:25) Hospital Rock Bottom (59:56) Functional Medicine Pivot (01:00:37) Comeback Fight Hollow Win (01:01:36) Opioids to Cannabinoids (01:02:29) Soul CBD vs THC Brand (01:03:35) Hemp Ban and Lobbying (01:08:15) Alcohol vs Cannabis Shift (01:13:36) Edibles Safety and Dosing (01:17:34) Pivoting Beyond Hemp (01:19:50) Kids Online and AI Future (01:28:40) Farewell and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David Millar grew up at the Jersey Shore surrounded by addiction, promising himself he would never become like the people he watched struggle around him. Instead, by age 20, he was deep into alcohol, cocaine, and crack addiction. He dropped out of college, cycled through psych wards, detox centers, and rehabs, slept in the woods, stole to survive, and believed drugs would define the rest of his life. Then everything changed. David got sober, rebuilt his life one day at a time, rediscovered running, returned to school, and eventually earned acceptance into medical school despite being told his past would hold him back. Today, he is seven years sober, an ultrarunner, medical student, coach, and one of the most powerful voices in recovery. In this conversation, David shares the reality of addiction, life inside psych wards, sleeping in the woods, the treatment program that saved him, why running became his medicine, and how he transformed an addictive personality into a force for growth. This is a conversation about addiction, recovery, discipline, and what becomes possible when you refuse to quit. Thank you to our sponsors Athletic Nicotine: https://athleticnicotine.com/rideout Code "RIDEOUT" Rho Nutrition: https://rhonutrition.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet David Millar (00:47) Running Discipline Talk (02:27) Roka Eyewear Sponsor (03:56) Beach Town Upbringing (05:23) First Drink Turning Point (08:52) Fentanyl Reality Check (11:22) Running and Recovery (12:08) College Dropout Spiral (13:32) Cross Country Comeback (15:17) Athletic Nicotine Sponsor (15:52) Cocaine at Sixteen (20:42) Work Ethic Over Talent (24:31) Nursing School Collapse (26:57) Homeless in the Woods (28:51) Stealing To Survive (29:26) Florida Detox Escape (30:59) Detox System Gaming (31:40) Sponsor Break NAD Plus (32:46) First Psych Ward Hold (35:50) Locked Ward Reality (37:48) Coke To Crack Shift (40:00) Stimulants And Meth Talk (41:01) Recovery Spark At 20 (43:39) LA Boot Camp Sober Living (46:55) Accountability Culture (51:32) Early Sobriety Pain (54:18) Sobriety Mindset Shift (55:21) Addictive Drive Reframed (57:01) Back to School Sober (01:00:01) Pre Med Leap and MCAT (01:01:12) Hiding Recovery to Get In (01:03:07) Sober Edge in Med School (01:05:06) Rotations and Daily Grind (01:06:34) Training While Studying (01:08:28) Choosing a Specialty (01:09:26) Alcohol Guidelines Critique (01:11:25) Treat Addiction Not Symptoms (01:13:58) Subutex and Vivitrol Path (01:17:32) GLP Drugs and Cravings (01:18:59) Fitness and Running as Medicine (01:22:46) Closing Thanks and Where to Find Him (01:24:08) Subscribe Sponsors and Book Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Scott Stallings is one of the fittest players to ever walk the PGA Tour. He grew up between Worcester, Massachusetts and Oak Ridge, Tennessee, walked on at Tennessee Tech after the program he dreamed of passed on him, and turned himself into a three-time PGA Tour winner over a fourteen-year career. Then, at the 2024 Players Championship, one swing into the lip of a fairway bunker tore his shoulder and the nerve out of his elbow. Three surgeries in fourteen months followed. During a comeback round at eleven under, the nerve tore loose again and his hand went white on the green. Three different doctors gave him the same answer: the golf he knew how to play was over. In this conversation, Scott opens up about losing the identity he had built his life around, running the Boston Marathon to survive the rehab, getting humbled in occupational therapy, and a surgeon asking whether he wanted to hold his daughter’s hand walking down the aisle. We also talk about choosing his family over one more swing, hosting Knoxville’s Korn Ferry Tour event, training for 29029, playing alongside Tiger Woods, and what the other side of hard looks like when the thing that defined you is gone. One of the most honest conversations we’ve had. Thank you to our sponsors Rho Nutrition: https://rhonutrition.com/ Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Scott Stallings (00:14) Roots and Accents (01:34) Golf Beginnings (02:02) Tiger Spark Moment (03:20) Why Golf Connects (03:58) Speedgolf Explained (06:08) Growing the Game (08:22) Late Bloomer Path (11:36) Tour Card Reality (13:52) Life on the Road (14:31) Never Off a Heater (19:43) Heater Ends Fast (20:38) Sponsor Break NAD (21:48) Money and Mindset (25:44) Winning Changes Everything (29:43) Imposter Syndrome Drive (32:11) Runner Mindset Parallels (35:46) Competitive Lens (36:34) Easy Days Discipline (37:06) Golf Injury Breakdown (38:36) Three Surgeries Rehab (40:39) Running Boston Goal (43:29) Boston Marathon Joy (47:45) Big Marathon Logistics (49:55) Return to Golf Plan (55:09) Elbow Setback Scare (58:49) Doctors End Career (01:02:53) Nerve Surgery Recovery (01:05:29) Identity Family Shift (01:06:54) Career Highlights Tiger (01:11:31) Majors Versus Regular (01:12:51) Major Prep Logistics (01:13:50) Slow Practice Rounds (01:15:44) Golf Course Fights (01:17:48) Fighting Levels and Jiu Jitsu (01:20:42) Weather Mental Edge (01:22:37) Memorial and Tiger Story (01:23:52) Tiger Crowd Etiquette (01:28:02) Tiger Trash Talk 67 (01:31:32) LIV and Golf Future (01:33:41) Walking Miles and Ultras (01:35:33) 29029 Training Tips (01:40:17) Sponsors and Next Steps (01:42:54) Closing and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chris Herren grew up in Fall River, Massachusetts, a basketball city where making it meant everything. He earned a scholarship to Boston College, starred at Fresno State, and did what every kid in his hometown only dreamed of. He pulled on a Boston Celtics jersey. What almost no one knew was that he did it as an addict. Cocaine in college gave way to OxyContin and then heroin in the NBA. Chris played some of the biggest games of his life high, chasing his next fix between practices, until addiction cost him his career, his health, and nearly his family. In 2008, after years of running, Chris got sober, and he has stayed sober every day since. He founded The Herren Project and Herren Wellness, and now travels the country telling the truth about addiction to anyone who will listen. In this conversation, Chris opens up about growing up in Fall River, the secret he carried through the NBA, the night it all came apart, the moment his wife told him the truth, and what it means that his kids have never seen him high. This is a conversation about addiction, honesty, family, and the daily work of staying clean. Thank you to our sponsors Timeline: timeline.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Chris Herren (01:06) Fall River Roots (03:35) Basketball Junkie Book (08:58) How Addiction Began (13:04) BC to Fresno State (19:01) NBA Draft Journey (25:22) Welcome to the NBA (29:57) Trade to Celtics Dread (34:55) Shipping the stash (35:42) FedEx obsession in Dallas (36:38) Money gone and secrets (38:58) Dealer in Celtics uniform (42:33) Cut and Europe calls (43:28) Bologna withdrawal and heroin (54:38) Turkey hustle for dope (56:26) China forced sobriety relapse (01:02:42) Iran risks and taxi drops (01:06:49) Train crash to street life (01:08:49) Rock Bottom Checklist (01:10:21) Relief After Losing Everything (01:10:41) Overdoses Before Narcan (01:13:24) Nurse Intervention to Treatment (01:13:59) Daytop Program and Relapse (01:19:30) Recovery Structure That Worked (01:22:24) Rebuilding Through Coaching (01:24:10) Speaking and Service Mission (01:26:25) Holistic Rehab Model (01:28:28) Funding Scholarships and Donors (01:31:56) Family Healing and Milestones (01:34:30) Parenting and Sports Boundaries (01:43:23) Closing Thanks and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jake Muise grew up in rural Canada hunting, fishing, and living off the land. A Division I volleyball scholarship brought him to Hawaii, but a dorm room mix-up changed the course of his life forever. After being welcomed into a local Molokai family, Jake developed a deep connection to Hawaiian culture and became fascinated by Hawaii's invasive axis deer problem. What began as an obsession eventually became Maui Nui Venison, one of the most innovative food and conservation companies in the world. Today, Maui Nui operates a USDA-certified wild harvest system unlike anything else in existence, balancing deer populations while providing some of the most nutrient-dense red meat available. In this conversation, Jake shares the story behind Maui Nui, how he helped remove illegally introduced deer from Hawaii's Big Island, the challenges of building a first-of-its-kind USDA-approved harvesting system, and the leadership principles that power one of the most disciplined teams you'll ever encounter. This is a conversation about obsession, conservation, entrepreneurship, culture, leadership, and doing meaningful work that lasts. Thank you to our sponsors Helix Sleep: http://helixsleep.com/rideout  Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Welcome to Kona (00:20) Ironman Kona Stories (02:06) Jake’s Roots in Canada (02:58) Volleyball to Hawaii (06:12) Dorm Mixup and Local Life (09:44) Molokai Culture Explained (11:34) Meeting His Future Wife (15:03) Leading Maui Nui’s Team (20:15) Sponsor Break Helix Sleep (21:19) Origins of Maui Nui (23:19) Drought Sparks the Mission (25:53) Axis Deer Institute Hustle (26:54) Illegal Deer on Big Island (29:46) Infrared Night Hunting Tech (32:30) USDA Approval Challenge (39:16) Practicing Before Inspection (40:24) The USDA Ride Along (42:20) Remortgage to Scale (43:42) Pitching Passion Investors (46:53) Balancing Deer Populations (50:28) USDA Rules and Marksmanship (55:45) Inside the Night Harvest (58:35) Holo Ai Community Giveaway (01:04:59) Humble Hungry Smart Hiring (01:14:02) Gamified Discipline Experiments (01:20:59) Graduation and Farewell (01:22:52) Podcast Wrap and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chris Spencer grew up in rural Mississippi working cotton fields, facing racism firsthand, and struggling with dyslexia throughout school. Football became the one place where everything made sense. That path eventually took him from being one of the top recruits in the country to Ole Miss, where he played alongside Eli Manning, before becoming the 26th overall pick in the NFL Draft and spending a decade in the league. But this conversation goes far beyond football. Chris shares the lessons he learned from his family, the story behind a recruiter offering $100,000 cash that his mother refused, how dyslexia became his greatest advantage, and the challenges of building an identity after the NFL. Today, Chris is the founder of TeamQ, an AI-driven platform helping organizations identify and develop the intangibles that drive performance. This is a powerful conversation about resilience, self-awareness, and turning adversity into opportunity. Thank you to our sponsors Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Athletic Nicotine: https://athleticnicotine.com/rideout Code "RIDEOUT" Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Chris Spencer (00:52) Mississippi Roots (02:50) Racism and Resilience (06:13) Mom’s Guiding Principles (08:08) Football Finds Him (11:29) First Pads Reality Check (14:49) Size, Diet, and Position (17:13) From Fun to Future (20:29) Dyslexia as Superpower (25:15) Training and Powerlifting (29:54) Recruiting Goes National (31:09) Football Privilege Fame (32:15) Recruiting Home Visits (32:43) Cash Offer Rejected (35:37) Choosing Ole Miss (38:22) Team Culture Fit (41:30) Freshman Weight Room (46:10) Speed Technique Reality (47:30) Prop 48 Redshirt (49:13) Becoming Eli Center (53:12) NFL Draft Projection (58:15) IMG Combine Prep (59:24) Seattle Scheme Clues (01:00:06) Draft Night Surprise (01:03:35) Rookie Deal Holdout (01:07:29) First NFL Snaps (01:09:53) Money and Family First (01:13:05) Super Bowl Rookie Year (01:15:28) Beast Mode Arrives (01:18:23) Lockout and Leaving Seattle (01:21:23) Choosing the Bears (01:22:28) Giants Deal Falls Apart (01:23:36) Chicago Coach Conflict (01:24:50) Thrown Into Guard Midgame (01:27:28) Proving Toughness Through Injuries (01:31:47) Choosing Nashville and Settling Down (01:32:49) COVID House Sale and New Friendship (01:36:05) Building TeamQ After Football (01:40:13) How TeamQ Measures Intangibles (01:44:41) Onsite Therapy and Microtraumas (01:50:18) Where to Find TeamQ (01:51:54) Subscribe and Sponsor Shoutouts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Todd Anderson wasn't supposed to play at Michigan State. He came from a tiny town in Michigan. No Division I offers. No scholarship. No clear path forward. Then a chance opportunity earned him a walk-on spot at Michigan State. What followed was years of injuries, setbacks, position changes, and moments where quitting felt like the logical choice. Eventually, Todd became a key contributor on a Michigan State team that won the Big Ten and beat Georgia in the Capital One Bowl. He earned an NFL opportunity with the Rams before a suspension tied to a stimulant in an energy supplement ended his path. But football wasn't the end of the story. Today, Todd is the founder of Dream Recovery, one of the fastest-growing sleep brands in the country, helping athletes and everyday people improve performance through better sleep. We talk about football, failure, identity, resilience, entrepreneurship, sleep, and why some of life's biggest setbacks end up creating entirely new paths. Thank you to our sponsors Helix Sleep: http://helixsleep.com/rideout  Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Todd Anderson (00:21) Dream Recovery Takes Off (01:51) Small Town Roots (03:11) Multi Sport Standout (04:43) Michigan State Walk On Break (10:37) Reality Check In Camp (13:38) Injuries And Comeback (17:37) Fullback Breakthrough Season (21:18) Pro Day And NFL Shot (23:43) Rams Camp And Drug Test Scare (25:25) Energy Shot Fallout (25:56) Drug Test Mixup (26:44) Diluted Sample Drama (27:16) Practice Squad Reality (28:14) Four Game Suspension (28:35) Walking Away From NFL (29:06) Heart Not In It (30:46) Retirement And Identity (32:30) Fathers Day Ad Break (33:45) College Touchdown Memory (34:53) Proud Dad Stories (35:54) Learning Toughness (37:23) Wrestling Respect (38:25) Dad Health Scare (39:55) Katie Comeback Ends (40:40) Pulmonary Embolism Ordeal (41:23) Misdiagnosis And Recovery (43:00) Rams Rookie Camp (44:17) College Football Culture (44:49) Gerard Butler Hype (45:28) Uniforms And Recruiting (47:25) Michigan State Gear Haul (48:45) NFL Gear And Nike Switch (50:09) Camp Mental Grind (50:52) Football Scheme Complexity (51:35) Quarterback Pocket Pressure (52:41) From Training to Sleep (54:31) Why Sleep Comes First (56:21) Dream Product Lineup (57:26) Mouth Breathing and Teeth (59:59) Nasal Strips and Afrin Loop (01:01:57) Silk Pillowcase Science (01:03:09) Building Dream Recovery (01:06:28) Sleep Tech and Alcohol (01:08:15) Baby News and Teslas (01:13:06) Chicago Marathon Mindset (01:14:45) Wrap Up and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jon Anik is the voice of the UFC. Before calling the biggest fights in the world, he was a young broadcaster at ESPN trying to find his place in sports media. Then Dana White offered him a chance to help build the UFC during one of the most important growth periods in the company's history. In this conversation, Jon shares the journey from ESPN to the UFC, what it was like earning Dana White's trust, working alongside Joe Rogan and Daniel Cormier, dealing with public criticism, and the preparation required to perform at the highest level for more than a decade. We also discuss the upcoming UFC event at the White House, the legendary Sphere event in Las Vegas, sports betting, Boston sports, and why repetition and discipline matter more than talent. This is a fascinating look behind the curtain of the UFC from the man who has called it all. Thank you to our sponsors Rho Nutrition: https://rhonutrition.com/ Code "RIDEOUT" Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meeting Jon Anik (00:26) Fame and Work Ethic (02:24) Working With Dana (04:30) Dana’s Generosity Stories (06:49) Broadcast Feedback Loop (10:28) Crafting Signature Calls (12:40) Prep and Memorization (14:01) Early Career Origins (18:31) ESPN to UFC Breakthrough (21:30) Leaving ESPN for UFC (24:52) White House Event Hype (28:28) Sphere and Live Venues (29:45) Music Tangent and Rogan (31:03) Rogan’s Generosity (32:45) Broadcast Chemistry (33:38) Handling Online Hate (36:06) Asking for Favors (38:52) Boston vs New York Fandom (43:17) Red Sox Reality Check (44:33) Twin Brother’s Career (46:10) Alt Combat Sports Rules (48:46) Gina vs Ronda Rewind (52:33) Women’s MMA Evolution (55:25) Betting and Politics (01:00:16) Broadcast Booth Dynamics (01:02:41) Wrap Up and Subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Danny Boy O'Connor helped build one of the biggest songs of the 1990s. As a founding member of House of Pain, he watched "Jump Around" become a global anthem and experienced everything that came with it: money, fame, chaos, addiction, and eventually rock bottom. In this conversation, Danny shares stories from a childhood shaped by violence, crime, and survival. We talk about the rise of House of Pain, getting kicked off the Beastie Boys tour, sudden success, reckless spending, meth addiction, relapse, and the long road to recovery. But this isn't just a story about music. It's a story about redemption. After getting sober, Danny found a new purpose preserving The Outsiders House in Tulsa, turning a forgotten movie location into a museum that now inspires people from around the world. This is a conversation about identity, recovery, second chances, and what happens when you finally find a mission bigger than yourself. Thank you to our sponsors Ketone-IQ: ⁠ketone.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT” Rho Nutrition: https://rhonutrition.com/ Code "RIDEOUT" Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) OGs Reunion Intro (00:18) Boston UFC Night (02:09) Dana White Loyalty (02:55) Boston vs New York (05:52) Discretion in Fame (07:02) Hard Childhood Origins (09:03) Moving and Culture Shock (12:56) Ketone IQ Ad Break (13:59) Outsiders and Toughness (16:38) Sobriety Reality Check (17:44) Skipping School and Sports (19:09) Music and Kiss Dreams (20:27) Latchkey and Outsiders (22:16) Leaving Home Early (23:05) Credit Card Hustles (27:34) Gang Life and Charges (29:18) Kids Today Drink Less (30:07) Teen Drinking Fades (30:43) Street Life Origins (31:34) Hip Hop Identity (33:05) Cholo Style Valley Gangs (34:12) Everlast Demo Moment (42:19) House Of Pain Forms (45:01) Label Bids Tommy Boy (47:42) Money Fame Whiplash (47:56) Mickey Rourke Boxing Bond (52:53) Fame Panic And Payola (57:25) When Jump Around Faded (57:57) Hit Song Whiplash (58:28) Twilight Zone Success (59:28) Money Fame Temptations (59:54) Second Album Pressure (01:01:17) Beastie Boys Tour Blowup (01:02:57) Weedwear Hustle Origins (01:04:20) Beastie Boys Changed Hip Hop (01:06:18) Kicked Off Tour Fallout (01:07:57) Spending Spree Reality (01:09:45) House of Pain Breakup (01:10:21) Outlaw Biker Life (01:12:32) Haze Art Stories (01:14:37) Meth Addiction Spiral (01:20:03) First Meth Hit Malibu (01:22:00) Rock Bottom And Regret (01:24:30) Finding AA Community (01:25:59) Commitment One Day (01:26:53) Thirty Day Chip Moment (01:27:55) Trusted With Service (01:28:51) Leading And Sharing (01:29:24) Success Then Drift (01:30:26) Relapse Spiral (01:32:16) Rock Bottom Wake Up (01:34:01) New Surrender New Life (01:36:19) Prison Service Lessons (01:39:25) Outsiders Epiphany (01:42:13) Delta Bravo Origins (01:43:56) Buying The House (01:46:48) Community Builds Museum (01:49:27) S E Hinton And Fans (01:53:25) Museum Today Tulsa Love (01:58:16) Closing Thanks And Plugs Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Darren Waller was one of the most talented players in football.Georgia Tech standout. NFL draft pick. Pro Bowl tight end. Massive contracts. Fame. Success. But behind the scenes, he was spiraling. Addiction started at 15. Pills. Alcohol. Failed drug tests. Suspensions. A fentanyl overdose that nearly killed him. Eventually, the NFL banned him for a year. This conversation goes way deeper than football. We talk about identity, addiction, recovery, fame, relationships, loneliness, rebuilding your life from scratch, and what happens when you finally stop running from yourself. Darren opens up about rehab, working at Sprouts after losing football, fighting his way back to the NFL, signing life-changing contracts, his marriage and divorce, retiring from the game, and finding purpose through sobriety, music, and helping others recover. One of the most honest conversations we’ve had. Thank you to our sponsors Ketone-IQ: ⁠ketone.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT” Wild Roman: wildroman.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT15” Rho Nutrition: https://rhonutrition.com/ Code "RIDEOUT" Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Darren Waller Joins (00:29) Music Roots and Passion (01:56) Atlanta Upbringing and Academics (04:58) Georgia Tech Grind (06:25) Position Switch and NFL Dreams (08:50) High School Arrest and Fallout (13:42) Addiction Begins (15:59) Identity and Belonging (20:51) College Partying and Arrest (24:42) Scouts Notice and Draft Path (31:16) Agents Combine and 40 Time (33:15) Drafted by Ravens (33:58) Combine Lies and Red Flags (35:24) NFL Money and Pill Supply (38:36) Rookie Camp and Injury Spiral (40:05) Switch to Tight End (40:28) Failed Tests and Suspension (43:15) Touchdowns and Shoulder Tear (46:33) Banned and Fentanyl Overdose (50:32) Detox and Rehab Breakthrough (51:40) Sprouts Job and Rebuilding (54:22) Training for Comeback (57:17) Raiders Chance and Breakout (01:00:04) Sobriety and Self Belief (01:03:40) NAD Plus Sponsor Break (01:04:44) Big Contract Setup (01:05:17) First Big Extension (01:06:54) Handling Fame and Money (01:07:37) Frugal Lifestyle Choices (01:09:53) Giving Back Through Foundation (01:10:50) Love Addiction and Marriage (01:16:01) Giants Trade and Retirement (01:21:20) Year Off and Self Work (01:23:02) Unretiring With Dolphins (01:27:15) Injury Comeback and Free Agency (01:29:19) Books Music and Wrap Up Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mitchell Hooper became the strongest man on Earth almost by accident. A former marathon runner, exercise physiologist, and coach… he found Strongman late, exploded onto the scene, and became World’s Strongest Man in just a few years. But this conversation goes way deeper than strength. We talk about steroids, the Enhanced Games, performance obsession, money, success, mental health, addiction, suicide attempts, psychedelics, fatherhood, and faith. Mitchell opens up about the pressure of winning, the emptiness that can come with achievement, and the internal battles most people never see behind the titles. This is one of the most honest conversations we’ve had about masculinity, suffering, and what actually gives life meaning. Thank you to our sponsors Thank you to our sponsors Ketone-IQ: ⁠ketone.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT” Athletic Brewing: https://athleticbrewing.com Code "RIDEOUT" Athletic Nicotine: https://athleticnicotine.com/rideout Code "RIDEOUT" Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet Mitchell Hooper (00:28) Hybrid Strength Challenge (01:33) Early Lifting Origins (04:09) Family And Athletic Roots (06:33) Imposter Syndrome And Winning (08:36) Success Money And Meaning (13:53) Strongman Culture And Rivalries (15:08) PED Reality In Strongman (18:01) Healthspan Hormones And Society (24:13) Starting Steroids And Gains (30:56) Marathon Days And Pacing Pain (32:52) Enhanced Games And Exercise Medicine (35:36) Cardio Versus Lifting (37:00) Avoiding The Middle Zone (38:07) Reps Sets And Intensity (39:52) Grip Strength And Carries (41:49) Progress Over Aesthetics (43:02) Body Dysmorphia Trap (44:30) Winning Feels Different (47:18) Family And Fertility (50:57) Strongman Bulking Diet (53:28) Deadlift Prep And Cues (58:55) Painkillers And Injuries (01:02:43) Discipline Builds Identity (01:06:32) Mental Health And Guilt (01:09:06) Running As Recovery (01:10:22) Fighting for Family (01:11:49) Therapy and Integration (01:13:12) Faith and Gratitude (01:15:52) Ibogaine and Addiction (01:18:27) DMT and Facing Death (01:21:36) Marriage and Showing Up (01:24:35) Addiction Story in Finance (01:26:57) ADHD Meds Reality Check (01:28:27) Enhanced Games Prep (01:29:15) Thor Rivalry and Attempts (01:32:37) Prize Money and Sponsors (01:35:48) Wife Backstage and Wrap (01:37:56) Podcast Outro and Plugs Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jason “J-Mac” McDonald grew up moving between Malden, Medford, Chelsea, East Boston, and Revere. Bullied, angry, and constantly trying to fit in, he found identity in graffiti, hip-hop, stealing, and eventually drugs. What started as tagging trains and shoplifting turned into OxyContin, heroin, violence, overdoses, and years of addiction that nearly killed him. This conversation goes deep into Boston street culture in the late 90s and early 2000s — graffiti wars, robberies, fights, train yards, addiction, and the opioid epidemic that destroyed an entire generation. But this isn’t just a story about drugs. It’s about fear.Fear of not being enough.Fear of being judged.Fear of changing. J-Mac talks openly about heroin addiction, relapse after eight years sober, losing friends to fentanyl, getting arrested while living in sober housing, and the moment that finally forced him to rebuild his life for good. Today, he’s sober, works in recovery helping addicts rebuild their lives, speaks in jails and treatment centers, and has turned his graffiti roots into a legitimate art career through murals, canvases, and custom work across New England. This is one of the rawest Boston episodes we’ve done. Thank you to our sponsors Ketone-IQ: ⁠ketone.com/rideout Code “RIDEOUT” Timeline: timeline.com/rideout Code "RIDEOUT" Ken’s book now available here: https://www.theothersideofhard.com/ Chapters (00:00) Meet J Mac (00:28) From Graffiti to Fine Art (02:37) Boston Roots and Opioids (04:19) Fear and Moving Around (06:50) Graffiti Alter Ego (08:47) Sponsor Break (09:37) Seventh Grade Heist Story (15:10) Sneakers and Peer Pressure (17:33) Haters and Self Belief (19:22) Recovery and Connection (24:02) High School Riot and Dad (28:16) First Opiates and Creativity (30:43) Hustles and Shoplifting (33:01) Boosting and Getaways (33:54) Graffiti Life and High Spots (34:16) Sticker Swap Paint Hustle (35:46) Recovery vs Old Habits (36:07) Mitochondria Supplement Ad (37:39) Oxy Takes Over (38:49) Cross Out Wars Explained (40:17) Mall Fight and Aftermath (42:33) Identity Beyond Graffiti (43:25) Relapse and Heroin Shift (46:13) First Heroin and Needles (49:18) Overdoses and Saving Friends (53:57) Fentanyl Changes Everything (01:00:47) Choosing Recovery and Detox (01:02:59) Family Intervention and First Sobriety (01:05:57) Secret Drinking Spiral (01:07:03) Halloween Rooftop Bust (01:08:14) Barrel Hideout Arrest (01:11:21) Court Cases Wake Up (01:12:29) East Boston Rehab Reset (01:14:38) 2013 Relapse Reality (01:17:18) Greg's Death Turning Point (01:20:20) Helping Others Through Barbering (01:22:43) Building an Art Career (01:31:17) Speaking and Jail Outreach (01:36:12) Final Recovery Message Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices