Explore every episode of the podcast Redemptive Living Radio
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| #115: Spring Loaded Dynamic | 27 mars 2026 | 00:41:09 | |
| #114: I'm Not Going to Keep Taking From You + A Rubric | 20 mars 2026 | 00:33:06 | |
In this episode, a continuation of episode #113, Jason shares about what it looked like for him to "not take from me" (from a needs perspective) as well as a rubric he used to help keep him focused on what mattered most when I wasn't able or willing to meet his needs. We banter back and forth about staying up late talking recovery (Jason clearly thinks we stayed up until the wee hours of the morning for YEARS), we talk about Jason wanting physical touch from me while lying in bed at night and we also talk about times when he desperately needed something from me while sharing emotionally and I wasn't able to give it to him. Please note: this had nothing to do with me having a callous heart (although I'm completely capable of that) and more to do with me holding boundaries and also hanging on by a thread and not having anything to pour into the relationship as it was hanging on by said thread. You can download the rubric Jason talks about in this episode by clicking on the podcast freebie link. Jason mentions several caveats: - some women want to know what his needs are, even if both of them know she can't meet the needs. This is more so coming from a place of needing to see him be vulnerable and lean into intimacy. Jason cautioned the guys, in doing this, do not blame her for your needs. - if a wife says she wants to know (his needs, in vulnerability), jason tells the guys - don't give an inch and take a mile. Toward the end of the episode, we discuss how this applies when there is severe intimacy aversion, and he doesn't even share that he has needs. I thought this comment was key that Jason said: "the needs get shrouded in other things and expressed in ways that aren't vulerable - as in, they come out in passive aggressiveness or aggressiveness or in wonky expectations of things that don't make any sense." We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.
| |||
| #113: Looking for Her to Meet His Needs in Early and Mid-recovery | 13 mars 2026 | 00:35:04 | |
Bear with us through the first six minutes of this episode - not sure exactly what kind of point we are making as we talk, but also wasn't sure how to trim it out and for the rest to make sense, so I left it as is. Oftentimes in early and mid-recovery, husbands try to find comfort (of some kind) in her, whether via physical touch, words of affirmation, words of validation, physical proximity, time together, sex, etc. This is rooted in a common belief that husbands share: she still has a responsibility to meet some of my needs in the marriage. We talk about this common (and mistaken) belief, common misconceptions and in the next episode, we will walk through a rubric for men to use. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.
| |||
| #112: Integrating Empathy - Part 2 | 06 mars 2026 | 00:24:04 | |
| #111: Integrating Empathy - Part 1 | 27 févr. 2026 | 00:28:49 | |
In this episode, we discuss how to engage empathetically when she is hurting. The key is: he HAS to integrate empathy in the day-to-day. Jason unpacks three principles to help men be more empathetic with her: Principle #1 - He can't turn on empathy in the hard moments alone. Instead, it's developing the character trait of empathy: being loving, tender, compassionate as a way of life. Principle #2 - He has to engage her pain outside the moment (stay connected to it), so that when the moment arises (when she is in pain), empathy is already there. Practical ways to do this: #1 - Intentionally think about the pain she has experienced. #2 - Three questions he asks:
We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.
| |||
| #110: Patched Up Hearts | 20 févr. 2026 | 00:37:39 | |
In this episode, we talk about important questions women ask in the latter part of mid-recovery, while healing from sexual betrayal. Keep in mind in the latter part of mid-recovery (mouth. ful.) for women, there is a lot of internal processing going on - rhetorical questions, existential questions, continued how and why questions pertaining to grief. Here is what the podcast listener asked (same podcast listener as episode #108 - One Bad Decision Away): - Can I give my patched-up heart back to him? - Is holding back parts of my heart true healing? Jason and I talked a bit about the stages of recovery, and then I addressed the questions and explained how I would coach her if she came to me with them, with a posture of curiosity. For instance: - What are the areas of your heart that you feel you are holding back? - What do you feel as you hold these parts back? - What feels best to you right now - to hold back certain parts? Or no? - Is someone pressuring you to give back all of your heart? It's so important for women to have space to decide when, where, and how she chooses to give back parts of her heart to him. I don't want this point to be missed. In addition, I think it's important for women to allow themselves to be in this "in between", knowing it will continue to evolve. And it's also okay if what you hold back and what you give back to him ebbs and flows. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.
| |||
| #109: How to Navigate Valentine's Day | 10 févr. 2026 | 00:34:36 | |
Valentine's Day can be a tender holiday for most women working to heal from sexual betrayal, namely, a painful reminder of what she doesn't have. In this episode, we discuss how to navigate this loaded holiday well, no matter where you are on the healing journey. What I would love for all women to do is reframe the holiday as an opportunity for her to truly take up her space, practice using her voice, and asking for (and figuring out) what she needs in order to make it a day that works for her. Jason chimed in and challenged men to see it as an opportunity to show her that he will honor her needs and her wants. So how do we do this exactly? #1 - Check out page 19 in the Rescued workbook - for the "Four Questions" mentioned in the episode. #2 - We talk about some of the things she might need Valentine's day to be, given it's such a loaded holiday:
| |||
| #108: One Bad Decision Away | 06 févr. 2026 | 00:40:29 | |
Hey Guys! Thanks for joining us today on Redemptive Living Radio, where we talk about healing from intimate betrayal relationally, as well as for women who have to make the choice to heal without him by her side (whether because he won't do the work or because she is done). In this episode, we discuss a listener question rooted in a comment Jason often makes: "I'm one bad decision away…". Her question: How do we continue to move forward / go through life with the reality that it could happen again? (To be clear, "it" being anything from acting out with pornography or affairs or anything and everything in between.) We start with clarifying Jason's comment (I'm one bad decision away…"). Jason says he doesn't share that to scare anyone, but to stay connected to humility and to the reality that a series of small decisions could lead him back there. We add in a third qualifier pertaining to the default setting being broken. None of this is an excuse, but rather the reality we are dealing with. I love it when Jason said, "It's not a statement of danger. It's a statement of capability." We then discuss the second part of the listener's question: how to move forward given this reality. I'm not going to fully recap it here, which makes it even more important to listen to what we share. It's important. But here are the three big things we talk about:
| |||
| #107: Blocks to Anger - Part 2 | 30 janv. 2026 | 00:43:57 | |
Welcome to Part Two of Blocks to Anger! In part 2 of the episode, we discuss the benefits of anger for both him and her, the root of anger, how to get angry, and the fear of getting stuck in anger. We jump right in and talk about some of the reasons Anger is so important - not just for HER to express but also for HIM to experience FROM her. If you don't listen to anything else, please listen from 4 to 8 minutes in. So incredibly important for everyone to hear. Benefits for her:
| |||
| #106: Blocks to Anger - Part 1 | 23 janv. 2026 | 00:41:40 | |
In this two-part episode series, we are talking about her anger and grief. We start by putting a name to some of the common things that cause her anger and grief to be blocked. 1 - Him doing good quantitative but not so great quantitative work. (Add to this the external validation he might be receiving, which further blocks her from tapping into her anger.) 2 - Childhood vows and how anger was modeled as a child. 3 - Church. 4 - Her being labeled as co-dependent. 5 - Him seen as the victim (struggler, addict, etc.). 6 - Bad recovery work on his part overall. 7 - If the cement hasn't dried yet. We will be back next week with reframing anger, speaking to the fear of getting stuck in it, and a "how-to" on engaging anger. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.
| |||
| #105: Criticisms and Comparisons | 16 janv. 2026 | 00:46:58 | |
Hey Guys! In this episode, we dive into another listener question (or rather, a series of questions) pertaining to him comparing and criticizing her in his addiction (and oftentimes, well after the addiction has stopped). We have a more casual conversation about this, so if you like structure, check out the show notes below for some scaffolding. This is such a GREAT question, and as you will see from our conversation, this is complex, important, and STILL something we both work on. Question #1 - Can a husband help heal his wife's wounds from years of criticism and comparisons to other women? The quick answer is unequivocally YES. We return to this in the latter half of the episode. Question #2 - Why does he compare her to other women, in his immaturity and in his addiction? Some of the reasons include:
For us women, knowing these whys can help us depersonalize comparisons and criticism. Question #3 - How will this ever work? How will I ever measure up to what he saw?
Question #4 - The listener also asked - OR, is this primarily the wife's work, to see her value aside from her husband's actions and words?
We then loop back to the first question: can a husband help heal his wife's wounds from years of criticism and comparisons to other women? I ask Jason what he did to help me heal from his comparisons and criticisms. And he shares a lot and talks a lot. Which I am okay with, I'm just letting you guys know what happens - haha! We end with talking about this real longing for women to feel highly esteemed by him and to be seen as beautiful by him, because of everything she is, not just because of the physical. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.
| |||
| #104: Using Her in His Addiction | 09 janv. 2026 | 00:46:45 | |
In this episode, we talk about something that is fairly common yet rarely discussed: when he uses her as a part of his addiction. I'm listening to the episode right now (as I type the show notes), and I am on edge. It's an important conversation and also hard to have. Thanks for being brave and joining us for this episode. I start by sharing how important it is for there to be sexual separation for her early on in the recovery process because we can get so tangled up (as women) when sexual intimacy continues early on in the recovery process, which makes boundaries and coming back to ourselves a challenge. This is something we, as professionals, need to ask more frequently. Unfortunately, there is a lot of misguided and outdated information out there stating that once his sexual energy isn't expended outside the marriage, he and she can enjoy that inside the marriage. This is a problem, as it's simply a transfer of the sexual energy from outside the marriage to inside the marriage, but not in a healthy way. Jason and I talk through this for the first 20 or so minutes, and then I come back to this question: First Question - How do we know if this is happening in the marriage?
Second Question - What does she need to work on so that she can set boundaries and create space pertaining to sex in the marriage?
See the links below for everything mentioned + more! We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.
| |||
| #103: Preliminary Boundary Work | 02 janv. 2026 | 00:46:08 | |
Hey Guys! In this episode, we talk about preliminary boundaries. I mentioned at the beginning of the episode that most women know boundaries are an essential part of the process and are interested in learning how to set solid boundaries. However, fully internalizing (or embodying) boundaries takes time to engage and implement. This is where preliminary boundaries come into play. So let's dig into preliminary boundaries. Keep in mind that 'preliminary boundaries' refers to the preparatory work, comprising 10 questions that women need to ask themselves early on in the process. I love Jason's qualifier around these questions he mentions for men to be aware of: women are in a free fall and are looking for handholds, and they need them early on in the process. This isn't an indictment on him; it's not to get 'safety from the monster, it's so that she can grab onto some things as everything slips away. I also want to highlight that as we go through these questions, some of you listening who aren't at the VERY beginning of this process might feel regret (that you didn't do this or that). Let's be curious about any pangs of regret - it might point to a need for added safety and assurance in the here and now. Here are the 10 questions: 1 - Do you want or need him to be out of the bed you guys share? All ten of these questions are geared toward helping you get your feet back under you, gain some protection and safety and will help with future boundary setting as you continue to heal. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.
| |||
| #102: Her Request to Never Notice Others | 26 déc. 2025 | 00:38:07 | |
Welcome back to RL Radio! In this episode, we talk about a wife's request that he never notice another woman. While this request might seem impossible for him to carry out, keep in mind that it's a deeper need beneath the one she is expressing. Jason also comments that oftentimes a rhetorical question (from her) points to a statement of grief. The question is giving expression to something deeper, usually a deeper need. Here are the myths we discuss:
| |||
| #101: Why Women Ask Details | 20 déc. 2025 | 00:34:54 | |
Welcome to episode #101 of RL Radio! I don't know about you, but it is SO cool being in the hundreds, and we are so glad to have you all here with us! In this episode, we discuss why women ask for details in recovery. Women often get a bad rap for asking for more information; even well-meaning supporters and counselors try to convince her that she doesn't need to know everything, thinking this is helpful. We discuss at the beginning of the episode how wives are already voiceless in this process, so anywhere in recovery that we can give her her voice back is HUGE. How much information a wife does or doesn't want should ALWAYS be her choice. Here are just some of the reasons that wives ask for details: 1 - To piece together her timeline. 2 - Helping herself not feel crazy / making sense of her story. 3 - Trying to reconcile/recalibrate her gut. 4 - To figure out and assess: how much did I mean to you? 5 - Knowing if there was anything sacred in the relationship. 6 - To understand the level of danger - Asking: Am I safe intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, and physically? 7 - To reconcile her concept of her husband. 8 - To take the edge off the pain (by gathering information). 9 - Knowing all of the details can give a sense of control and safety. 10 - To understand what she is forgiving. 11 - In the thick of the trauma, getting carried away and asking things that maybe she doesn't even want answers to. 12 - Fact Checking. 13 - Gaging willingness and brokenness in him. 14 - To pursue intimacy with him - I want to know YOU, is what she is essentially saying. 15 - Trying to figure out which locations, experiences, and people are tainted (or not). We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.
| |||
| #100: Building Blocks of Intimacy - Part 2 | 12 déc. 2025 | 00:32:43 | |
Welcome to episode #100 of RL Radio and part 2 of the Building Blocks of Intimacy! We are so excited to reach this milestone with you guys. If you liked seeing the video version of our podcast last week, you can watch this week's video in the Worthy of Her Trust Academy Public Content section (see link below) or on our YouTube Channel. Okay, so we are in part two of our deep dive into the building blocks of intimacy, and we start right off the bat discussing this idea of compatibility. Jason voices a couple of insights:
Then we move into the different approaches we need to look out for when using the building blocks framework: 1 - 'Top Down' Approach - Sex is the way to connect. Top Down is the idea that we use sex to fill in all of the building blocks in a sort of "quick fix" way, rather than creating connections that would lead to HEALTHY sexuality. This taints all of the other boxes, making every dynamic of intimacy sexually charged. 2 - 'Bottom Up with Strings Attached' Approach - Using the building blocks of intimacy to guarantee sexual connection. This can feel connecting, but underneath what looks and feels connecting is really just straight-up fake. That said, it's not always nefarious, but it IS misguided. 3 - 'No Building Blocks' Approach: Minimal to no intimate connection with ANY of the building blocks. This is where severe intimacy aversion happens. 4 - 'Disintegrated' Approach: A moment of connection within one of the building blocks, but as soon as the experience is over, intimacy disappears. For example, going on a bike ride and connecting (recreational intimacy). Once the ride is over and the bikes are stored away, all connection is gone. 5 - 'Bottom-Up with No Strings Attached' Approach: Experiencing intimacy for the sake of intimacy, not to get us anywhere else. I loved when Jason shared: When we engage in the other intimacies, it's satisfying. And we don't need sex. We want sex, but we don't need it. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.
| |||
| #99: Building Blocks of Intimacy - Part 1 | 05 déc. 2025 | 00:44:58 | |
Welcome to Season #8 of RL Radio! We are excited to connect with you guys, laugh a little, and also partner with you as you move forward with healing. This season, we decided to start recording podcasts as videos (in addition to the podcast). In that vein, we wanted to record in our sitting nook off our kitchen - and did for a handful of episodes for this season, including this two-part series. As I listen to this recording, I can hear that we have some tweaking to do, so you will probably hear those tweaks as we go through the season, and hopefully, we will land in a happy-sounding place. In this episode, we wanted to fully dive into The Building Blocks of Intimacy. We have mentioned the building blocks in episode #41, but surprisingly, we haven't done a full episode (or two) walking fully through the building blocks of intimacy. So here we go! We start with a couple of disclaimers: 1 - The building blocks are a framework, not a roadmap. 2 - The point is NOT to get to the top of the pyramid. 3 - Sex addicts don't know how to experience intimacy that is integrated or holistic. And then set up the building blocks. Please refer to the podcast freebie (and if you have subscribed to the podcast freebies in the past, you will need to email us so we can resend the email to you) so that you can see the visual of the building blocks of intimacy OR you can look on page 118 in the Rescued workbook. A couple of important notes (as we discuss the layers within layers): 1 - We have the buildings of intimacy that essentially look like a wedding cake with layers, and then we also have layers within each of the boxes (consisting of intimacy with self, intimacy with God, intimacy with others, intimacy with spouse). 2 - I really appreciate what Jason shared when he compared the building blocks of intimacy to porn. The building blocks of intimacy are sacred, deep, rich, and complex. Porn - not so much. While this is tragic, it can also be very reassuring that we can NOT be compared to porn. 3 - Jason also said: "We long for the safety of true intimacy and we find the fraudulent form of safety in secrecy." We = the sex addict. 4 - Our wounding causes certain blocks to be disproportionately in demand. As in, certain blocks are super-sized based on his core wounds. In the next episode, we are going to pick up where we left off and walk through certain "approaches" that we need to look out for as we use the building blocks framework, which will help all of you have the language for what might be missing and what is working. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.
| |||
| #98: The 90/10 Principle | 09 mai 2025 | 00:45:44 | |
The 90/10 principle simply means that 90% of the work of relational rebuilding is a husband's responsibility post betrayal (+ 100% of a husband's personal work). That 90% means going first, leading the process, holding the weight of the brokenness in the relationship, engaging, initiating, following through, amending, living forgivable and working on being trustworthy. The 10% that is a wife's work in the beginning is simply showing up and being a willing participant in the process, grieving, watching, waiting, navigating boundaries and needs, and finding a sense of security. That she has 10% isn't suggesting that she's got it easy; quite the opposite, her 10% is really hard. Where things get wonky (especially in the early work) is when we move beyond focusing on a hubands personal work and relational rebuilding work, and shine the spotlight on a wife's personal work. Shelley acknowledges that we all have work to do to grow and change, but the focus should not be on a wife's personal work in the post-betrayal dynamic. Ideally that happens later, after a husband has paved the way. Myth: There's infidelity in that relationship, so that relationship must be broken. Truth: There's infidelity in that relationship, so there must be a broken person in that relationship. A broken relationship has ZERO bearing on infidelity. Bottom line for Jason: God's not calling me to call you to your work.
| |||
| #97: His Processing - Personal Not Private | 03 mai 2025 | 00:41:19 | |
As I listen to the first part of this episode, I am so thankful we aren't where we were five months ago with our little puppy. I will say - we are still considering getting rid of him because while he is much easier for us than he was five months ago, he is still a LOT. I was giggling with how I was pronouncing words like diarrhea and nope. Don't mind me! In this episode, we wanted to talk about this concept that his recovery, and more specifically his processing is personal but not private. Jason talks about some men are told that certain things shouldn't be shared - whether it's what he is processing in between sessions, what he shared in groups, with his therapist, etc. Since the acting out was in private, if we also do our recoveries in private - then we are perpetuating one of the issues that got him here in the first place: living life in a container. Here are some suggestions for men that are doing some decent recovery work: - Let her have a choice as to if she wants to hear what he is processing. - She can't be the container he always dumps into - there is a balance between dumping and working toward vulnerable intimacy. It's something we learn as we go and Jason speaks to this in the episode. - Awareness of "for" versus "at" when it comes to her emotions after he shares - if he is mad at her, it might show his deeper motivation was not from a place of being fully known (versus from a place of well, she told me she wanted to know what I was processing…). - Awareness of data versus experience when it comes to what he shares - we are looking for intimacy and vulnerability and his experience of himself in what he shares, not just the logistics of the day. - Awareness that when he comes to her to share - it's a LOT for her - take it from me. So tenderness is critical. For those men that insist on needing privacy - Jason, being who Jason is and seeing the gray says - "okay, great, if you need this for a season". I then say: I think it needs to be less than a season. More like here and there but always with the goal of coming back to being fully known and without containment. Bottom line: His demand for privacy is a barrier to the relational recovery. The end. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #96: Lying - Part 2 | 25 avr. 2025 | 00:47:23 | |
We are back with part 2 of the lying episode. We jump in to talking about what helped Jason stop lying: #1 - Brute force effort to be honest as well as brute force effort to fight the addictive voice inside of him. (Jason said he would argue internally with the man he was fighting to become versus the old, addictive self pulling him back.) #2 - He came to a place of determination that he could handle the fall out. Out of this shift came one of Jason's core recovery mantra's: I'd rather lose you than lie to you. I chime in (and possibly take the convo in a different direction) and I talk about how when we lie - we are chipping away at our sense of selves. We become fragmented and disintegrated. Radical honesty is one of the ways we move toward integration and wholeness. Jason's suggestions for men that are in the thick of recovery and need to stop lying:
We then talk about what she should expect - and I start by saying: we should expect him to NOT lie. You will hear me grappling with: should I have been a bit more gracious in the beginning? (Because I truly thought: what in the world is WRONG with him and please just STOP.)
We land the plane talking about polygraphs - which probably (really) needs to be a whole episode in and of itself. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #95: Lying - Part 1 | 18 avr. 2025 | 00:27:40 | |
We are starting to come to the final bend in the road for Season #7, before we take a break. In this episode - we talk about lying - something that comes up a lot with the gals I connect with on Instagram as well as one of the things that was posted more than once in the question box on IG when I asked for podcast suggestions. What I always say is: women are willing to do the excruciating work of healing from betrayal - but the lying is what becomes an impasse. Here is what we are going to walk through: 1 - What lying looked like for Jason growing up. 2 - Why we lie. 3 - What should she expect. 4 - Suggestions for men. As Jason spoke about what lying looked like growing up - he made a fascinating statement: "I valued honesty but deceived myself when dishonesty served me." Essentially - he was lying to himself which is such a big problem that liars deal with. He also said - "The more deeply entrenched he was in his lying, the more he had to justify it in real life." Listening back to this episode gave me a deep feeling of unease with how sinister lying really is and how it corrupts us. So why do we lie? Bottom line: it's self-protective in an unhealthy way and its intimacy aversion at its finest. Jason also mentions that some of the why behind his lying was to protect me. I didn't say this in the episode but as I listen to the replay - I don't love what Jason is saying here - I realize he said: this isn't a "feather in the cap" sort of thing - which I appreciate - but goodness, I just can't get behind him lying to protect me… We will be back next week with part 2 of lying. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #94: A Story of Fortitude - Part Two | 11 avr. 2025 | 00:51:09 | |
Hey Guys - We are so grateful for Emma's willingness to share her story. This is part 2. SO much richness in this episode - from Thomas's brokenness and guttural crying to Emma's vulnerability to the 2nd disclosure and Emma's awareness of having to move the wall around her heart accordingly. To Thomas's ultimate willingness and of course - as mentioned in the last show notes: Emma's fortitude and not accepting less. Emma references a verse that Jason shared with her from Isaiah - hope to the hopeless. She is referring to Isaiah 40:29-31 where it says - "but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength." Emma then shares this: Thomas is the biggest miracle I have EVER seen. And I truly believe THIS is what we need to see post-betrayal. This illuminates the wholesale change that each of us needs to see in him. And that IS possible, as their story reflects. My hope for each of you listening is that you will see that God is STILL in the business of doing miracles. While we can NOT force anyone to change - what we CAN do is be clear about what we are okay with and not okay with. We can stand strong and keep the bar high. And keep our expectations high. Toward the end of the episode, Jason mentions a humble and contrite husband and is referring to Psalm 51:17 - "a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise." Emma's email is: emma@rlforwomen.com incase you have any questions or comments for her. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #93: A Story of Fortitude - Part One | 04 avr. 2025 | 00:49:18 | |
We are thrilled to have Emma Berry with us on the podcast today! Emma shares her side of the story with us both this week and next and we are so grateful she was willing to walk us through the ups and downs of her process with her husband, Thomas. (See links below for Thomas's side of the story, from several seasons back.) Ladies - what I want you to be listening for is the fortitude Emma shows through the ebbs and flows. Fortitude literally means strength under pressure and I believe it's one of the key ingredients in being able to set boundaries well and also navigate recovery well. Emma was firm with her boundaries and she was not going to settle. From behind the 8 ball to the 8 bouncing off the table - Emma's story is one of fortitude, firmness and focus. We will be back next week with part 2. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #92: Doing the Work Out of the Wounds | 28 mars 2025 | 00:44:18 | |
On this episode, we wanted to unpack what it looks like for men to do recovery out of the wounds (versus living recovery and not making everything about the wounds). Jason starts with explaining a bit more as to what he means by this: in the addiction (or integrity issue) - men are operating out of the wounds. In other words - the acting out mitigates the pain of the wounds. The same can happen in recovery - the recovery work mitigates (or is driven by) the wounds. I asked Jason to give an example from his own life (from early recovery). For instance - him wanting to be seen (to feel significant) for not acting out today. Bottom line - it's important for men to ask themselves: are you doing recovery in a way that recovery becomes the thing that mitigates the pain of the wounds VERSUS doing the right thing because it is the right thing. Common symptoms:
| |||
| #91: Sure Signs of Progress | 21 mars 2025 | 00:33:02 | |
On the heels of talking about some of the markers that may point toward him not living with integrity (while in recovery) - we wanted to talk about three things that show sure signs of progress: The easiest one to see with our eyes is: humility. This can look like fast acknowledgements and apologies for doing something wrong as well as fast acknowledgment of continued hurtful habits. Bonus: moving from the things I AM guilty for to what I am LIKELY guilty for. Second - personal accountability to include: radical ownership for lack of follow-through, fewer excuses, choice versus universe. (What I heard in this was the internal versus the external locus of control - which I think is HUGE.). Jason then added movement from self-righteous indignation to honest self-reflection and curiosity. Third - pursuit of intimacy to include: desire not dread when it comes to talking about things as well as moving toward connections versus transactions (as in - more integrated). Ultimately this all culminates in him leading which is what we as women need to see from him. Not just that but him leading paves the way for us as wives to follow. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #90: Signs He May Be Acting Out | 14 mars 2025 | 00:40:07 | |
In this episode, we are talking about signs that he may be acting out. I have a lot of women that wonder (post discovery) - how will I know if he is acting out? What if I miss the signs? This episode is for you - AND - we have one bit of caution: we are NOT trying to insert unnecessary doubt into your mind. What we share here are potential indicators. A collection of things that we have seen as red flags prior to confirmation of his acting out. In addition, you want to look at these as a whole. Okay, here we go - signs he may be acting out: 1 - A man that is only motivated by her and not motivated by himself. 2 - Insisting he will never act out again. 3 - Hiding - not engaging in conversations, evading, avoiding. 4 - Acting In increasing. 5 - Pressuring her to have sex with him. 6 - No interest in her in totality (not just disinterest in sex). 7 - Him straddling the fence / lukewarm. 8 - Lack of wholistic integrity. 9 - Talking about going back to normal. 10 - Reconnecting to your intuition - if you sense something I off, something I off. It may not mean he has relapsed but it does mean something is off. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #89: Staying with Dignity | 07 mars 2025 | 00:33:19 | |
We go back to a listener question, this one from IG where a woman asked: how do I stay with dignity when the acting out was so extensive. I'll be honest - as I listen to this episode, I think there is SO much more we could have shared and we didn't. I'm making the choice to push it out but read these show notes for some of my additional thoughts that weren't included in the audio. Where my mind goes initially is to work at untangling any "judgments" (and I don't say that word in a negative way, think: opinion) or preconceived notions you have about women (or men) that are betrayed. Jason also mentioned that it's important to create space between where you land and where others in your life land on leaving versus staying. Oftentimes the opinions we have about things, especially before they are apart of our lives, can influence us more than we realize when we are walking a road we never thought would be ours to walk. Second - for myself, I felt confident in giving Jason a second chance. This also helped me stay with dignity. I mentioned a book by Tim Keller, Forgive, where he really opened my eyes to how important it is to pursuing reconciliation if at all possible. Obviously, it isn't always possible and there are even some situations where it is okay to not pursue reconciliation. I found what Tim said in his book reassuring of what God hopes for us within relationships which is quite different than the world view of relationships where we just move right on to the next. Both of the things above (the opinions I was holding onto that I needed to release + choosing to give Jason a second chance) were things outside the relationship that I needed to sort through to stay with dignity and peace. That said, I pivot to biblical times and robes and Joseph and honestly, I think I get a little lost so I understand if you do, too. We are essentially grappling with - is dignity dependent on how others treat us? Can it be stripped from us like it was for Joseph way back in Genesis based on others choices? Or is dignity apart of who we are as God's children (inherent dignity)? Could it be both? Where we landed is here: it's both/ and. The stripping of dignity happens in relationship and thus building it back up also happens in relationship. AND - there is inherent dignity that we can confidently stand in. Both are important! So a couple of questions for you as you consider if you can stay with dignity (dependent on the relationship): - do you feel you are being honored in the relationship today? - what are you not okay with and is he still doing these things? - do you hold a high bar for how others treat you? - has there been restitution? (And while I didn't say this on the podcast - I think restitution is huge for women in restoring dignity.) I hope this episode, at a minimum, gets your mind turning as you consider what it looks like to stay with dignity. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #88: Listener Questions | 28 févr. 2025 | 00:39:59 | |
Hi y'all, you get the B team for the show notes on this episode! Jason here, trying to take up the slack, so these notes will be from my perspective not Shelley's this time. Listener Question #1 : How do I help my wife be close to me again? With this question, we first have to remember that she may not be ready to be close again. If that's the case, our efforts to draw her close will feel manipulative and selfish. Second, we have to challenge our motives and scrutinize if this is a) about sex, and b) about us. Once we've established that she does in fact want to figure out how to be close again, and that we aren't focused on sexual and physical intimacy, and we're not making it about us, here are a few things we have to ask ourselves as husbands: - "am I intentionally creating safety?" - "am I creating intimacy (especially outside of sexual)?" - "how can I communicate with my words what I want to communicate with my body?" Listener Question #2 - 28:15 - What tips do we have for men who can't see the need for help? This is a painful question. My hunch is it's from a wife, whose husband refuses help. If you're in that boat, I'm sorry. We talk about how this is both a spiritual/faith issue, as well as an arrogance and pride issue. A short bible study here...We reference the following verse: Matthew 5:48 - "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." The word perfect in this verse is the greek word, teleios, which means "of mind and character, one who has reached the proper height of virtue". It is often misquoted to mean sinless perfection, which for me (Jason) meant a feeling of perpetual failure. Blah. I love what Charles Spurgeon (an English pastor in the mid-late 1800s) says of this: "Rise out of ordinary manhood. Get beyond what others might expect of you. Have a high standard. Stretch towards the highest conceivable standard, and be not satisfied till you reach it." We have to be careful that we don't become tangled up in the barbed wire of our own ego! Here are the key takeaways for both husband and wife: Takeaway for a husband: ask 3 people in your life if they see anything you could work on as a man, a leader, a christian, a husband, etc. and prepare your heart to receive it. Takeaway for her: is him getting help in this specific area an absolute non-negotiable for her? If so, you'll need to confront the issue head-on. We reference Matthew 18:15-16 - If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' Nothing about this is pleasant or easy. Husbands, please see that if she is backed into this corner it only serves to add insult to the betrayal injury. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #87: Do you want to be with me? | 21 févr. 2025 | 00:39:55 | |
In light of some of the episodes we have produced this season - the deeper pain points, the why work episodes - there is a looming question I have wanted to address with Jason, on behalf of all women. And here is the question: Why did you marry me? And what makes me think you want to be with me today? Maybe better put - convince me that you want to be with me. And in all fairness - she also has to answer the same question: do I want to be with him? Jason shared some of the ways he thinks he can show her that he wants to be with her and here they are: 1 - Protecting her from him. (Jason gave the example of his selfishness or his ADD.) 2 - Sacrifice and surrender for her behalf - "I will surrender for her sake." 3 - Pursuit of and commitment to holistic intimacy. 4 - Surrendering physical intimacy. 5 - Honoring her needs / boundaries. 6 - Saying it: I want to be with you. 7 - Fidelity. 8 - Restitution - considering the question: in what ways am I making your life better? Jason mentioned the quote from John Bowlby - "Security is knowing you exist in someone else's mind." I also shared what it looked like for me to get to a place of peace regarding this question. I spoke about having an expectant hope / wait that this would get resolved, and to hold this conundrum out in front of me. I had to decide if I wanted to be with Jason and I also had to watch to see if Jason showed (behaviorally) if he wanted to be with me, even when I was at my worst. Ultimately - it's so important for her to know and experience the peace of mind that comes with knowing where he is at on this topic. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #86: "Why" Work Part 3 - What Now? | 14 févr. 2025 | 00:32:02 | |
In this episode, we talk about the interplay between the "why" work and the "what now" work. The why work is heavy in the beginning of the process, and continues to "hum" in the background - but the "what now" begins to take more and more precedence, or at least that is what we hope for. This wasn't said in the episode but I want to say - I think the why work oftentimes takes a lot of intentionality (which means time) to take shape. I don't want to give the impression that the why work is easy - Jason continues to have revelations about his why two decades in! Let's make sure we understand the difference between the two: the why is the awareness and insight work v the what now is the character work. And that is JUST as important. Jason said early in this episode: the what now work is a new conscious way of living in light of the why. Love. Jason reviews a couple of cautions:
And a point of encouragement - doing the what now work can be empowering! As for practical next steps:
Bottom line - we don't want to get so stuck in the why to the point where we aren't able to move forward into the "what do I do now". And in that - the "what now" can be empowering to lean into - sometimes, like Jason shared in the final story - it takes a reframe. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #85: His Needs Vs Her Needs | 07 févr. 2025 | 00:37:21 | |
In today's episode - I wanted to talk to Jason about his needs and her needs in the recovery process in a more informal way (as in - we didn't do a ton of prep work before hitting the record button). I started off by sharing that I believe her needs are more important in the recovery process due to the covenant bond being broken (so in other words - one of the natural consequences of the sin of betrayal). Jason then chimed in and I really like what he said: his needs aren't less valid - it's just that her needs take precedence until there is trust and security restored in the relationship. Again, it's NOT that his needs aren't valid at all. It's that they have to be met in a different way (through community / other safe men) until the security and trust has been restored. Other things we discussed: - His needs being super-sized causes the level of expectation for them to be met to be super-sized which then means the level of disappointment that he has will be super-sized. - Character is built when our needs aren't being met and yet we are being the best version of ourselves, sitting in unmet needs. - Jason says - men have to scrutinize their needs that they are bringing to the table. This is because in the past his needs were born out of his wounded-ness. (And with that, n faulty expectation that she will be the one to make up for his wounds / needs from childhood.) - Her owning what she needs is an important part of her process - it's connected to boundaries and will help her move forward in her process and get clarity. - I mentioned that women oftentimes are seen as "needy" in the recovery process and Jason said the inverse applies as well - he also can appear to be "needy" in the recovery process. We explain some of the reasons for this. - I mention the importance of the dynamic where he allows her the space to have needs - and how this is integral in moving the coupleship forward. And yet - how does he do this when he is also walking around with a lot of needs that he *was* meeting in an illegitimate way and now having to sit with unmet needs. So messy. Jason said three things that motivated him: - to meet my need was an opportunity for him to rebuild trust. - My needs were an indication that I was still invested in the relationship. - My needs were an opportunity for him to be less focused on himself. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #84: Resentment | 31 janv. 2025 | 00:47:32 | |
This week we are talking resentment, iced tea, hand towels and dealing with Shelley's mic situation. I promise that is going to go away in future episodes - I didn't realize that I am touching the mic so much!!! I didn't realize until about a year ago that resentment is a HUGE part of what he struggles with and has to untangle in his recovery process. Specifically resentment toward her. Literally - I had NO clue. Our working definition of resentment: demands equanimity and justice, used as a weapon, rooted in vows unfulfilled - and finally - projected at another person. Ultimately - there is an urge (when feeling resentment) for the other person to make it right. I really appreciated when Jason said: "Resentment is largely connected to our core wounds. The things I resent you most for is most closely tied to the 'I' that is biggest for me." If the core wound is powerlessness - there will be resentment where it feels like there is loss of control, if the core wound is insignificance - there will be resentment where he feels unseen, rejected or misunderstood. We divided resentment into two types for our conversation: false resentment and valid resentment. False resentment - a projection of resentment onto her, essentially blaming her for the resentment (or deep disappointment) he is feeling. Three types of false resentment: - I resent me and project it onto you. - I've violated one of my vows and I'm projecting resentment onto you. - I'm bargaining and projecting the resentment bubbling up onto you. Valid resentment - legitimate hurt that is not tended to that eventually turns to bitterness and resentment. What's important is to pause anytime resentment is experienced - and consider what is at the root of it - if it's valid resentment - we work toward grieving and forgiveness. If it's false resentment we work toward naming what is under the resentment, holding off on not blaming her, and rather dealing with what is at the root of the false resentment. False resentment perpetuates the powerlessness, insignificance and incompetence that he is experiencing. See how we are now chasing our tails?! Thus - the false resentment is so important to watch for and name. (I feel like we could also call it toxic resentment.) At the very end of the episode - I ask Jason - is resentment typically used as an excuse for the acting out? And Jason said yes. I feel like we opened up another can of worms at the very end. And to bring these show notes full circle - I just want to go organize my hand towels and wonder why in the world it took me 21 years to see how much his resentment plays into the process. Learning with you, every step of the way. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #83: "Why" Work - Part 2 | 24 janv. 2025 | 00:47:38 | |
In this episode we are continuing to talk about his "why". It will be helpful for you to understand the four different categories that we are talking about as you listen to this episode and download the pdf which will be in the podcast freebie email (see link below). Here are the four categories that go into the why: Life Situations or Contextual Realities - noteworthy life events from your life between the ages of 6-16 (or beyond). Impact or Wounding - the impact based on the life situation - as Jason spoke about the impacts, he used feeling words, the 3I's, and how he saw himself. Operating Principles / Character Brokenness - The mantras, vows and concepts we develop about how we will do life based on the life situations and the impact / wound. These can be subconscious or conscious. Acting Out - The behaviors done sexually to mitigate pain and shame. All four of these components culminate in the why. A couple of important things to remember: - When doing why work - oftentimes, the third piece - the operating principle is the missing component. This step is really where the why will start to come together. - It's a process - part Holy Spirit work, part internal work, part feedback from others we trust as we share our story with them. - Ultimately, getting to the why will help her make sense of the senselessness and will help him make sense of the things he has done, in order to live differently from here on out. - None of the why was about her - none of it. Just to be clear - when I said this - what I meant is: none of this was her fault, at all. She is not the why. The end. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| #82: "Why" Work - Part 1 | 17 janv. 2025 | 00:43:12 | |
Alright everyone - here we go - we are officially jumping into Season #7 and we aren't turning back. We are SO excited to be with you guys - and we are hoping we can be here for a while - we will see how long we can last! We are going to be talking about "Why" work in this episode as well as the next one. This episode is more so laying the foundation for episode #83 where we unpack the roadmap for getting to the why. Jason states several things out of the gate that I think are important:
| |||
| #81: The Deeper Pain Points | 27 déc. 2024 | 00:43:18 | |
Welcome to the official first episode of Season #7! In this episode we wanted to talk to all of you about how to handle the deeper pain points (of hers) that feel like they will never ever go away. How can he help her handle those deeper pain points and how can she handle those deeper pain points. Jason's tips for husbands: First - we can't judge and don't have a right to judge how deep the well of grief is. When he judges what is in the well, this just further adds to the sludge in the bottom of the well. Second - and point in case - husbands have to remember that they throw things back into the well when they (for example): sigh, don't give her space to grieve, ask how much longer until she will get past the grief and pain, etc. Third - initiative is key. When he takes initiative and brings it up - he is scooping with a bigger bucket which will only help. Next steps for women pertaining to the deeper pain points: First - make a list of your pain points (the things that keep bubbling up in your heart and mind). Keep in mind, you may need to take a chunk of time to really know what these pain points are - they are usually the thoughts or images that come to mind that make your heart ache over and over and over again. So give yourself a week or two and keep coming back to your journal to jot them down. Then - go back and mark the ones that are the deeper of the pain points, the ones that take your breath away. Most women have a handful of these. Second - use these journal prompts to continue to pump the well and bring clarity to the deeper pain points: #1 - What hurts the most about this particular pain point? (The reason this hurts so much is because…) #2 - Name something you have lost because of this particular hurt. Third - take yourself through the Self Compassion Exercise for each of the deeper pain points - see the Podcast Freebies for that particular exercise. Please note - the goal isn't to get rid of these pain points but rather to pump the well and to be faithful to honor them, name them, experience them and ultimately move through them. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.
| |||
| Re-release #65: Navigating the Holidays | 20 déc. 2024 | 00:51:17 | |
Hey Guys! We wanted to re-release an episode from the past pertaining to navigating the holidays well. The holidays can be really challenging - no matter what - and then throw in Family Systems (see below) + recovery and it's a LOT. The happy holidays can feel like the not so happy holidays. The back drop of this conversation we are having is rooted in Family Systems Theory by Murray Bowen. Bottom line is in every family - there are unspoken agreements and roles within the family system. For instance, you might be the clown of the family, the peace keeper, the hero… the list goes on and on. When we merge family systems (by going to the in-laws for Thanksgiving, for instance) there will absolutely be an impact to the "system". We cover five key points to ponder as you consider how Family Systems impacts your holiday experience: 1. Name the role you played in your family of origin as well as who you are now relative to the earlier role you played. 2. Acknowledge your wife's needs when navigating holiday interactions. 3. When emotions are high, use discernment on what to share and say in front of extended family, AND honor yourself and your boundaries / limits. 4. Front Loading conversations between him and her prior to the holiday gatherings. 5. Daily Downloads, initiated by him, for the two of you every day you are with extended family. 6. And Bonus: for women - identifying anchors (activities you can do to keep yourself grounded) on the daily while with extended family. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us and we are excited to be with you for one more episode this year (fresh and new) and then we will be back in January for Season #7.
| |||
| Welcome to Season #7 of Redemptive Living Radio! | 14 déc. 2024 | 00:09:46 | |
We are so excited to get this season going and before we really get going in January - we wanted to release a couple of episodes this month and then come January, we will be back with all sorts of content. Here is what we have planned thus far: Interviews with some of the amazing folks from our team, the 90/10 rule, trusting ourselves post-betrayal, personal recovery isn't the same thing as relational recovery, the mundanity of recovery, how do we know if he is acting out?, sure signs of progress, the list goes on. We can't wait to connect with you guys and we are even hoping at some point this season we will record some of the podcast recordings via video and post them on YouTube. If you want to subscribe to the Podcast Freebies - please https://view.flodesk.com/pages/618576b90b51fd1569c55578. And don't forget - if you have subscribed to the podcast freebies in the past - email us here and we can resend you a fresh email with all the up-to-date links. Merry Christmas! Shelley + Jason
| |||
| #80: The Shame She Experiences | 19 avr. 2024 | 00:52:38 | |
So here we are! The final episode of Season #6. We start with me needing to loop back to something we discussed in the last episode where Jason said he received feedback from someone saying that sometimes when Jason mentions the past / the timeline, that he is shaming me. While I don't think he is trying to shame me - I DO experience shame when certain parts of our story is mentioned. I wanted to share a point of clarification that didn't come to me until after we had stopped recording last week. I've wanted to talk about the shame women carry for a while and I thought this would be a good time to dig into it. We start with a working definition of shame - because in some ways, it's really hard to conceptualize. What I think is important is for us to remember that shame is an indictment on our being. It's more than a feeling - shame becomes a sense of self. We then talk about permanent shame (thanks to Christa - one of our podcast producers - this is more rightly named chronic shame) versus acute shame. So for those of you that read the show notes - think of this as a bonus! We switch gears and dig into the different facets of recovery and how shame bubbles up in each of these areas and slowly chips away / erodes at our sense of self as women. We talk emotionally, financially, physically, sexually… The conversation continues and we talk about several things including how his acting out isn't an indictment on her being (although it FEELS that way), naming the shame, recognizing that the antidote to shame is the starting point, bringing it to community (which includes having others dismantle the shame), and ultimately working at putting ourselves back together. I was so grateful for Jason to bring up the reality that her shame necessitates compassion from him. We discussed this before we started recording and I'm so glad Jason looped back to this - it's so important for men to be WITH her in her shame and pain not separate from it. It will make the biggest of differences. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6, we will be back in the Fall for Season #7!
| |||
| #79: Holding Her Hostage | 12 avr. 2024 | 00:39:18 | |
In this episode - we talk about how he can hold her hostage in the recovery process. We discuss this concept, of him holding her hostage, two different ways (or avenues or angles or well, you get the point). The first avenue is how Jason interprets "holding her hostage" which essentially is him holding her hostage for his past wounds and holding her accountable and responsible to heal his past wounds. This certainly was a dynamic that Jason and I dealt with while we were dating as well as while we were married. We end up moving into a conversation about Jason going first in the recovery process and him relinquishing the expectation of me "healing" his wounds and I qualified that by saying it's not "fully" my responsibility. This takes us down a whole other trail where I mention Genesis 2:21 where Eve was taken from Adam's rib - close to his heart and under his arm as well as Genesis 2:18 and the word "helper" meaning one who provides what is lacking in another. Clearly I am grappling with this and Jason gives a helpful analogy. The second avenue that we quite quickly look at because we were running out of time is when he holds her hostage by not being open to allowing her to express her pain and giving her a soft space to land as she grieves. A lot packed into this episode - some tears, a lot of laughter and hopefully a lot to think about. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6.
| |||
| Regrouping + Resources | 05 avr. 2024 | 00:11:26 | |
It's just me today, popping in to let you know we will be back next week with a fresh episode. I am sharing the quickest of life updates with you guys plus a reminder about a couple of resources that we offer. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6.
| |||
| #78: Going Into Public with Confidence | 29 mars 2024 | 00:52:01 | |
As we dig into the content of this particular episode - please keep in mind that these situations are SO nuanced. So please take what we are sharing and consider how it applies to you. What we share will not work for everyone in every situation. #1 - Clearly End the Affair - Our first suggestion for regaining confidence and to be able to go back out into the community with your head high is to consider utilizing a technique from I Don't Love You Anymore (link below). In the book, Dr. Clarke suggests that the betrayer (with his wife on the line) calls the affair partner to verbally and officially end things. This is something Jason and I did with several of his AP's and it was incredibly validating and honoring for me and it also gave me confidence as I went back out into the world. #2 - Make a Choice + Take Back Your Power - Next, we talk about making a choice + taking back our power. Specifically, we think it's important for you to make a choice about who needs to know about this and who doesn't need to know about it. And once that choice is made - remind yourself that NONE of these people (whether they know or don't know) have power over you. Jason makes a great point - once those people know, we can start to relinquish control of the narrative. We have made the decision and we can surrender the rest. Head held high. (And remind yourself that what others think is nothing for you to be concerned with.) Reputation is something we have very little to no control over but our character is what we want to focus on and what we can control. So again, surrendering our reputation and surrendering control of the narrative. We talk briefly about shame and this is probably something we need to dive into a bit more here on the podcast - how shame impacts her (we covered shame for him in episode #7, see link below). For now, practice an awareness of the role that shame plays and how it impacts your confidence when you go out in public. Keep in mind the antidote to shame is intimacy so naming it and then talking about it are key. #3 - Have a Plan - Something that helped me years ago was to imagine this happening (a run in) and having a plan for what I would or would not say. I also had to lean into what was going to be an incredibly awkward situation and let it be awkward (as much as we don't want things to be awkward). #4 - Embrace this as an Invitation for Greater Healing - Give yourself permission to take baby steps. Start by going to your mailbox and celebrate that win. Go through a drive through and give yourself a ton of compassion. Build off of those baby steps and keep stretching yourself. And all the while, know that this, too, will cultivate character and growth in YOU. Jason then shares two things that he wants men to know: if you bump into the AP - RUN. Literally. As he said so well - you can't leave any space for questions. And as quickly as you leave, you quickly tell your wife. Don't not say anything and definitely don't think you are protecting her by not saying anything. Not true. You are protecting you when you choose not to say anything. The end. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6.
| |||
| #77: Making Friends with the Work | 22 mars 2024 | 00:34:42 | |
As Jason said early on in this episode - recovery work is painful. It hurts, it's scary and no wonder we resist it. Jason talks about how he went from resisting the recovery work to accepting that there was work to do. It's in this process that we make friends with the work. As Thomas Berry, a coach on our team, says - we go from "got to TO get to". How we make friends with the work: 1 - When recovery calls, we answer the call. What stops us from making friends with the work: 1 - Cost: time, money, ego, our job, our status, our reputation. Ultimately, it comes down to what we value. Jason then left me underwhelmed when he said: The place to start is by starting. (As you will hear, I was ready for the next step and he looked at me and said - that's it. Just start.) Okay then. So we dedicate time daily to the recovery work. And if doing the work isn't getting you anywhere - consider the practice of implementation (Jason asks some great questions geared toward looking at implementation and if it's happening) as well as consider if the work you are doing is actually not the right work and needs to be revamped. We segue into a conversation about recovery plans and relapses and I really appreciate what Jason shares about recovery plans being the means to the end and not the end. "The plan isn't the issue, the person is the issue." We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6.
| |||
| #76: The Duality of Hope | 15 mars 2024 | 00:44:05 | |
Basically, I try to take over during the first five minutes of the episode as I talk about hope. Then I pass the mic over to Jason and you will probably actually like what he says much more. I just try to sprinkle in anecdotal comments as I can, you're welcome. Hope is a handhold for wives in the following ways… 1 - it gives women a sense of security in the middle of what is a very chaotic experience. 2 - it can reconcile staying. 3 - it can be a reprieve from the chaos that she is experiencing with him. 4 - it can be something that can help her feel sane. 5 - it gives her a way to reconcile that all the years weren't lost. Then I chime in with: hope is a key ingredient that we have to have. It doesn't just help with a semblance of security - it IS security. And yet…at the same time, hope can be a handcuff (holding her back) in the following ways... 1 - because everything orbits around recovery. 2 - because it betrays her intuition and better judgment. 3 - because it can cause her to question her faith. 4 - because she is signing up to stay in a revolving door of pain. 5 - because it forces her to decide between herself and the kids. 6 - because if she doesn't hope - she will be the bad guy. 7 - because it feels like life is defined by betrayal. We then have a couple of side discussions - initially, I am honestly just trying to figure out where to place this guy (that Jason is speaking of) that betrays his wife, does all this recovery work and then says he is going to just let her go. We make no progress in this conversation and move to... We then talk about how in mid-recovery, we in some ways had to sit in a place of figuring out how to like each other again, be roommates again, be husband and wife again, etc. Honestly, I think both Jason and I wondered - after all that hard early work - if what we salvaged was really worth it. The good news is: it was a season and it did pass. So my encouragement to each of you is to keep going. We then go BACK to this guy that is just going to let his wife go (after betrayal, discovery, disclosure, and years of work:!). I clearly can't let this go and ultimately have some opinions, that I will leave to the recording. And the final side conversation has to do with deferred hope and how we can get stuck in this place. Naming it is powerful and so I hope having these words (if they apply) will help you, too! We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6.
| |||
| #75: Where Empathy Develops | 08 mars 2024 | 00:42:02 | |
Get out your thinking caps - this episode is heady and I had to rewind many many times to re-listen while I was working on these show notes. We are talking empathy (and intimacy and conviction) today. I believe that empathy is one of the key ingredients that will help her heart heal within the context of the couple-ship. So developing empathy is KEY. We talk neuroanatomy: prefrontal cortex, mirror neurons, cortical hypofrontality and modeling of empathy from others. We also talk biblical anthropology: the holy spirit interacting with our spirit and in that there can be a cultivation of conviction, humility, a sense of our own brokenness, love, and repentance. It's the interplay between the two of these - the neuranatomy + the biblical anthropology that help cultivate empathy. Both - And. Action Items for men that are struggling to find conviction or have more of a self-depricating conviction (which can lead to empathy):
We end by sharing a list of things that can help with developing empathy:
Ultimately - empathy and intimacy go hand in hand. As Jason said - intimacy is the antidote, at every turn. We hope this is helpful for you guys! We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6.
| |||
| #74: Intimacy Pays Dividends | 01 mars 2024 | 00:49:42 | |
In this episode, we get real honest about a recent series of arguments we had about money, with the intent of sharing with you guys what engaging in conflict can look like in "late recovery". Not that we do conflict perfectly or recovery perfectly (as you will surely hear) but we get questions about what life looks like today - years and years post betrayal and with a lot of recovery work under our belts, collectively. We laugh a LOT today. And we have a really sweet marriage. And we STILL do a lot of arguing and disagreeing. Ultimately, you are going to hear a mix of hurt, triggers, acting in, and being known / fully knowing one another in a deeper way as we unpack our recent disagreements. Getting to a place where Jason can speak into what I can't see (and vice-versa, at times) has been the sweetest gift and is truly what safe, trusted intimacy is all about. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6.
| |||
| #73: The Value of Full Disclosure | 23 févr. 2024 | 00:40:55 | |
In this episode, we talk about the value of the full disclosure and some of the reasons that doing a full disclosure (for both him and for her) is incredibly beneficial. Here are some of those reasons: - for men: integration of the story and the acting out - as in, making sense of and connecting dots in his story as a whole which informs the recovery and healing process - for men: writing out our stories has been shown via research to help with the healing process at a cellular level - for women: knowing the truth of our lives helps facilitate the process of forgiving (not to mention it restores honor to know the truth) - for women: knowing the truth of his life can eventually help us tap into empathy for him, which in turn helps aid in forgiveness - for men: to help uncover the "why" of the acting out (the roots) - for men: an opportunity for rebuilding trust - for women: helps her get unstuck and sets her on a course to truly grieve what has happened - for both: a marker / foundation for them to build upon - for women: the ability to integrate the truth of her life into her story (just like he does) - for women: witnessing him cultivating ownership (such an important character trait we need to see in him) - for men: it's Biblical We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6.
| |||
| #72: Frontloading For Her | 16 févr. 2024 | 00:37:19 | |
In this episode, we piggyback off of the last episode on Frontloading and discuss how women can leverage this technique in order to feel safe having certain conversations with him. This technique is essentially giving him a heads up that a difficult conversation needs to be had + insuring he is in an open space to have said conversation well in advance of it starting. I love this technique because it serves as an insurance policy to help protect her from additional hurt and pain. (And can also be considered a gift for him because he isn't being put on the spot and can prepare his heart for the conversation.) Jason suggests the following when she approaches him asking for a difficult convo: shush the negative thoughts, control the narrative, and finally - pivot to empathy (this is all happening in the space between the frontload and the actual convo). For women - this is applicable when you are wanting to share your heart (whether you feel hurt, fear, anxious, unsettled, etc.), needing to express a need and/or when you are seeking clarity. This technique is not applicable if you are experiencing immediate triggers and pain or as an "prescriptive edict" (where she demands versus where she expresses what she needs). It can be super helpful to get in touch with what you are feeling and START with that when you sit down to have the conversation. For husbands - focus first on the feelings expressed, meet her there; not solving the problem SO that she doesn't have those feelings. This will help you hear her heart around the request. Bigger picture, keep in mind: When she front loads, her desire is for you to accept what she is bringing to the table; and less about her trying to accommodate you (by front loading). We hope this tool helps her bring up the harder conversations and helps him meet her heart with tenderness and empathy. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6.
| |||
| #71: Frontloading | 09 févr. 2024 | 00:34:57 | |
In this episode, we talk about Frontloading, a term we first heard from Jennifer Kolari after doing some parenting therapy with her. See the link below for her information. Frontloading is the conversation we have prior to an anticipated event (or an anticipated conversation). Keep in mind, it's about a heart attitude, not about a playbook / plan / script. This heart attitude says two things: 1 - Empathy and tenderness will inform me going into this situation well, and 2 - I don't have to fear fall out. The point of frontloading is to be prepared FOR the hurtful stuff, versus making sure NO hurtful stuff exists. Big picture - a couple of things for men to keep in mind: 1 - It's an educational experience for guys - Husbands are going to learn how she perceives and experiences different situations. 2 - Process it for yourself prior to talking to her about it. Ask yourself: How does this situation impact my integrity and what do I need to protect that? How does this situation impact her heart and what do I need to protect her heart? Four things to think about as you are front loading an anticipated event: 1 - Thinking about and anticipating what will happen emotionally in that situation for you (him) and for her in this anticipated event. 2 - What is going to happen during the anticipated event that taps into your wounds / her wounds? 3 - What do I need at the beach? What does she need at the beach? 4 - What are the expected actions that I will take during this anticipated event? Keep in mind: this is not one and done (one plan this weekend won't be the same plan next weekend). Have the SAME conversation next week for the next anticipated event. In addition, don't deviate from the original plan unless there is a conversation that happens WELL ahead of time. Frontloading can be useful in the following situations: prior to travel, prior to being with extended family, prior to being in public (together), as a strategy to help him lean in when there is intense intimacy aversion, overall early on in the recovery process to establish safety and to build trust. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6.
| |||
| #70: When She Feels Stuck | 02 févr. 2024 | 00:36:50 | |
In this episode, we talk about her getting stuck and how this can be (not always, but can be) connected to him NOT doing good, consistent work. Jason recaps a couple of things from episode #68 - What is Good Work (definitely check out that episode if you want to learn more about what "good" work looks like - see the link below.) We discuss four big things that can cause her to get stuck in the process (when he is not doing good work). These include: 1 - When there isn't clarity on if he is doing good work or not (when she simply isn't sure) OR when it seems like his level of good work changes on the daily / weekly / monthly. We then shift gears and talk about strategies to get you unstuck: 1 - Get clarity on if he is doing good work (or not). Take Jason's advice and go with the graph of a stock analogy for this. You can also consider these journal prompts: How is he helping my heart heal? How is he hurting my heart from healing? We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6!
| |||
| #69: In the Dilemma | 26 janv. 2024 | 00:41:20 | |
So, let's say he is doing mostly good work. Oftentimes when he is doing this mostly good work, women are faced with a dilemma. Does she accept the good work and lean into it and trust it? OR does she hold him / the good work at arm's length and continue to watch and wait and keep herself safe? We start with exploring some of the reasons she runs into this dilemma. These include: 1 - Unconscious tug of war happening in her heart. I loved it when Jason said - "The husband that has done the work doesn't say 'why can't we just move on' - this comment serves as a red flag that he HASN'T done the work". Bottom line ladies: work toward naming the root of the dilemma and THEN you can ask yourself - what do I want to do about it? (With gentleness, of course!) Jason then speaks directly to husbands about some to do's if this is the situation the couple finds themselves in: 1 - Consistency + small deposits matter - Jason says, "consistency of small deposits builds trust in order for her to get out of the dilemma". Ultimately, my encouragement to women is that this is a part of the process and what's important is to be able to name it and then figure out what you want to do about it, with gentleness. I loved Jason's final thought - there is no clock. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6!
| |||