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Explore every episode of the podcast Public Power Underground

Dive into the complete episode list for Public Power Underground. Each episode is cataloged with detailed descriptions, making it easy to find and explore specific topics. Keep track of all episodes from your favorite podcast and never miss a moment of insightful content.

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TitlePub. DateDuration
Eleventy-first episode & Energy System Analogy World Cup Championship11 Oct 202401:30:50

A party of special significance to celebrate the eleventy-first and final episode with an energy system analogy world cup championship tournament, celebrity guests, and stump speeches

Friends-of-the-Underground participated in a special, in-person recording of the eleventy-first and final episode of Public Power Underground celebrating our community of electric utility enthusiasts. The episode includes a live performance of Roll On, Enthusiasts with special musical guest Daryl Wayne Dasher joining Arin Guillory and Ian Bledsoe. It also closes the Season 6 Energy System Analogy World Cup with celebrity judges Debra Smith and Daniel Kirschen picking winners in an 8-analogy, single elimination Championship Tournament. And, just like Bilbo Baggins ended his eleventy-first birthday celebration giving a speech on a stump, the season ends with open-mic stump speeches from electric utility enthusiasts. 

07:11 - Short-to-Ground, Analogy Edition

15:51 - Energy System Analogy World Cup Championship Tournament

37:01 - Kurt Miller Stump Speech

40:05 - Crystal Ball Stump Speech

42:42 - Debra Smith Stump Speech

44:02 - Pamela Sporborg Stump Speech

45:50 - Robb Davis Stump Speech

48:54 - Sarah Edmonds Stump Speech

50:34 - Megan Capper Stump Speech

52:16 - Scott Corwin Stump Speech

54:01 - Farhad Billimoria Stump Speech

55:48 - Eric Hiaasen Stump Speech

59:07 - Matt Schroettnig Stump Speech

1:01:44 - Kieran Connelly Stump Speech

1:03:21 - Mary Wiencke Stump Speech

1:05:42 - Doug Marker Stump Speech

1:09:08 - Nicole Hughes Stump Speech

1:10:29 - Conleigh Byers Stump Speech

1:12:00 - Chris Roden Stump Speech

1:15:02 - Ryan Neale Stump Speech

1:16:47 - Humaira Falkenberg Stump Speech

1:20:20 - Closing thoughts from Ian Bledsoe, Arin Guillory, and Ahlmahz Negash

1:24:00 - Closing thoughts from Paul Dockery

If you stay subscribed to Public Power Underground, you may find interesting items in your feed from time to time. Thank you for being a friend of the underground. I hope you have enjoyed the content and feel valued and appreciated.

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Energy Justice with Prof. Erin Baker27 Sep 202401:38:55

A discussion of the building blocks of a just energy transition with Professor Erin Baker, the Faculty Director of the Energy Transition Institute at UMass Amherst.

Professor Erin Baker visited with Ahlmahz Negash and Paul Dockery in-person at the office of the Pacific Northwest Utility Conference Committee (PNUCC) about energy justice, meaningful metrics, and the Holyoke Community Energy Project. The discussion is wrapped by insightful commentary on energy justice from hosts Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, Paul Dockery, and Ahlmahz Negash.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!

2:58 - 30 seconds of theory

  • What is energy justice?

Jenkins, K., McCauley, D., Heffron, R., Stephan, H. and Rehner, R., 2016. Energy justice: A conceptual review. Energy research & social science, 11, pp.174-182.

  • 3 core tenets of energy justice

Jenkins, K., McCauley, D., Heffron, R., Stephan, H. and Rehner, R., 2016. Energy justice: A conceptual review. Energy research & social science, 11, pp.174-182.

  • 5 categories of energy justice metrics

Baker, E., Carley, S., Castellanos, S., Nock, D., Bozeman III, J.F., Konisky, D., Monyei, C.G., Shah, M. and Sovacool, B., 2023. Metrics for decision-making in energy justice. Annual Review of Environment and Resources, 48(1), pp.737-760.


11:31 - Interview with Prof. Erin Baker


58:22 - Debriefing from interview w/ hosts Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, Paul Dockery, and Ahlmahz Negash


1:33:00 - Closing Thoughts from Conleigh Byers & Farhad Billimoria


Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Commissioner Ann Rendahl & the Eras of the Electric Sector20 Sep 202401:27:17

The electric sector is evolving like the eras of Taylor Swift; at least that's the hypothesis that Commissioner Ann Rendahl and Gen-Z-Swiftie Scholar, Sherry Zuo, consider in a special episode.

Commissioner Ann Rendahl and Sherry Zuo join hosts Paul Dockery and Crystal Ball to consider how the electric sector is evolving like the eras of Taylor Swift. Paul and Crystal joined Commissioner Rendahl at the offices of the Washington Utilities and Transportation Commission and Sherry joined remotely from Cornell University where she is a PhD candidate in the Mays Group.

Agreeing on the eras of the electric sector and how they map to the eras of Taylor Swift is no small task. To facilitate the conversation we put together some reference materials including a summary of the proposed timeline with sector milestones and representative songs.

The discussion considered how the eras of the electric sector fell on a quadrant map that mapped along vectors of structured ←→ chaotic and building ←→ optimizing.

The quadrant mapping was compared to the eras of Taylor Swift mapped along the vectors of career ←→ romantic and confident ←→ pensive.

The conversation also used a 40”x30” histomap of organizing activities across the eras of the electric sector that I presented at the 2024 Macro Energy System workshop.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!

For additional reading, Commissioner Rendahl recommends the following:

You can also listen to our eras of the electric sector playlist on Spotify!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

BONUS: Unprecedented Partnerships for Expanding Electricity Transmission in the West13 Sep 202401:07:10

a special, bonus episode recorded at the Western Power Pool with celebrity guests Sarah Edmonds, Bob Rowe and Debra Smith

Crystal Ball and Matthew Schroettnig host a conversation with Sarah Edmonds, Bob Rowe and Debra Smith about their “Theory of Change” for expanding high voltage, long distance transmission in the West.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!

Western Transmission Expansion Coalition (WTEC) is a West-wide effort to develop an actionable transmission plan to support the needs of the future energy grid.

The Western Transmission Consortium aims to support the development of transmission infrastructure in the West through a collaborative process involving infrastructure owners and investors.

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Big Synchronous Generators, Popular Fallacies, and Unpopular Opinions30 Aug 202401:38:23

A trip to the Skagit River Hydroelectric Project to talk about power system inertia with Seattle City Light operators, plus a discussion of popular fallacies and unpopular opinions with the hosts.

To experience the visceral sounds and sights of big synchronous generation, an interview with Mike Haynes, Will Andersen, and Brandt March was recorded in-person at Seattle City Light’s Skagit River Hydroelectric Project. To start the episode Ahlmahz, Paul, Farhad, and Conleigh discuss popular fallacies of the energy system and share some of their own unpopular opinions.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!


03:17 - Popular Fallacies & Unpopular Opions

52:08 - Big Synchronous Generation - Seattle City Light’s Skagit River Hydroelectric Project

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Ben Serrurier & the Lighting Design Lab19 Aug 202401:36:29

Ben Serrurier returns to Public Power Underground to share some maybe-good-maybe-bad-but-definitely-not-thought-out ideas with Ahlmahz Negash, Paul Dockery, and Farhad Billimoria in a returning segment, Half-Baked Ideas. Then Irina Rasputnis, Madeline Kostic, and Eric Strandberg from the Seattle City Light’s Lighting Design Lab sit down to talk with Paul Dockery about innovation in building electrification. 

13:19 - Half-Baked Ideas

  • Inspiration for the segment comes from the Bill Simmons Podcast
  • Ben’s prior appearances on the podcast

52:51 - The Lighting Design Lab

1:30:25 - Invitation to the Eleventy-First and Final episode of Public Power Underground

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Lynne Kiesling, Congestible Public Goods, and Common Pool Resources24 Jul 202401:50:27

A discussion about public goods and what classifying services as common pool resources, congestible public goods, or club goods means for grid planning and market design.

Lynne Kiesling joins Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery to discuss the classification system used in economics to distinguish public goods from private goods and what classifying some services as common pool resources means for grid planning and market design.

Lynne Kiesling is an economist focusing on regulation, market design, and the economics of digitization and smart grid technologies in the electricity industry. She is Director of the Institute for Regulatory Law & Economics in the Center on Law, Business, and Economics, and is an Adjunct Professor in the Master of Science in Energy and Sustainability program, both at Northwestern University. She is also a Research Professor at University of Colorado Denver, a member of the External Faculty of the Santa Fe Institute, and a Nonresident Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

In addition to her academic research, she is currently a member of the U.S. Department of Energy’s Electricity Advisory Committee, has served as a member of the National Institute of Standards and Technology’s Smart Grid Advisory Committee, and is an emerita member of the GridWise Architecture Council. Her academic background includes a B.S. in Economics from Miami University (Ohio) and a Ph.D. in Economics from Northwestern University.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!

05:07 - 30 seconds of theory

  • Ahlmahz: Public Good
  • Farhad: Common Pool Resource
  • Conleigh: Club good
  • Lynne: The pacing problem
  • Ahlmahz: The collective action problem
  • Farhad: The tragedy of the commons
  • Conleigh: Induced demand
  • Lynne: The Knowledge Problem

39:02 - What is and what is not a public good in the electric system

Billimoria, F., Mancarella, P. and Poudineh, R., 2022. Market and regulatory frameworks for operational security in decarbonizing electricity systems: from physics to economics. Oxford Open Energy, 1, p.oiac007.


51:06 - Is transmission a Public Good?


1:16:22 - Implications for planning and market design


1:40:06 - National Treasure, Public Good, or Excludable - a Public Power Underground game


Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Ari Peskoe Ranks Governance, Footprint, and Market Design11 Jul 202401:39:05

Ari Peskoe describes himself as an electric utility critic and has advice for electric utility enthusiasts.

Ari Peskoe is the Director of the Electricity Law Initiative at the Harvard Law School Environmental and Energy Law Program and a prolific writer about regulation of the U.S. power sector on issues ranging from constitutional challenges to states’ energy laws to interstate transmission development. The interview is wrapped in commentary from co-hosts Paul Dockery, Ahlmahz Negash, and Farhad Billimoria.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!

03:11 - 30 seconds of theory

11:01 - Ari Peskoe on Governance

51:10 - Ranking Governance, Configuration, and Market Design

59:37 - Ari Peskoe’s Energy System Analogy

1:04:48 - Debriefing on transmission, governance, and public power with Ahlmahz Negash and Farhad Billimoria

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Rich Glick on FERC Order 192021 Jun 202401:25:37

Rich Glick initiated the proceedings that led to Order 1920 as Chair of FERC, he returns to Public Power Underground with experts Prof. Jacob Mays and Pamela Quinlan to reflect on its adoption

--------------------

Paul Dockery and Crystal Ball bring their curiosity to an in-depth discussion of transmission planning, transmission investment, and transmission policy with Rich Glick, Pamela Quinlan, and Prof. Jacob Mays.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!

08:48 - Rich, What were you hoping for?

32:33 - Pamela, Does this do what you wanted?

1:05:15 - Jacob, What is missing?

1:15:48 - Rich Glick’s Energy System Analogy: The energy transition is like the 1973 Mets.

1:17:55 - Jacob Mays’s Energy System Analogy: The 2005 Royals, never say it can’t get worse.

1:19:09 - Pamela Quinlan’s Energy System Analogy: The energy transition is like Game of Thrones.

BONUS: Ke Xin (Sherry) Zuo, a PhD candidate at Cornell University in the Mays Group, provided her reflections onTaylor Swift’s newest album, The Tortured Poets Department, and its application to the Power System. My (Paul’s) favorite: the brilliant insight that “I Can Do It With a Broken Heart” is actually about how the power grid has to be resilient during forced outages and extreme weather events. 


About the guests:

Rich Glick is a Principal with GQ New Energy Strategies – a consulting firm he co-founded with Pamela Quinlan. Rich is a former Chair of Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC). As Chair, Rich initiated several reforms to more efficiently and cost effectively accommodate the evolution of the electric grid. Before being appointed to FERC, Rich was General Counsel for the Democrats on the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. He has worked for Iberdrola, PPM Energy and PacifiCorp and is also known in the West for his current work with the Committee on Regional Electric Power Cooperation (CREPC) Western States Transmission Initiative (WSTI) and CREPC Transmission Collaborative (TC). Rich’s prior appearance on Public Power Underground can be found below.


Pamela Quinlan co-founded GQ New Energy Strategies with Rich. She is an expert in energy market regulation and policy. She started at FERC as a Senior Energy Industry Analyst in the Office of Energy Market Regulation. In 2017 Quinlan went to work in then-commissioner Glick’s office as a Technical Advisor and was appointed Chief of Staff in January 2021. As Chief of Staff, she was responsible for developing and implementing the strategy behind the Commission’s policy initiatives. Before leaving FERC in 2023, Quinlan advised Chair Willie Phillips on Energy Markets and Resource Adequacy. She has also worked for Consolidated Edison (ConEd) and Standard and Poor’s.


Prof. Jacob Mays is an Assistant Professor in the School of Civil and Environmental Engineering at Cornell University where his research focuses on the design and analysis of electricity markets. Jacob holds an AB in chemistry and physics from Harvard University, a MEng in energy systems from the University of Wisconsin-Madison, and a PhD in industrial engineering and management sciences from Northwestern University. His seminal work (Paul is editorializing by describing it as seminal) on the sequential pricing of electricity was the subject of a stand-alone episode on Season 5 of Public Power Underground, and his collaborations with Jesse Jenkins, Farhad Billimoria, and Rahmat Poudineh have informed our listeners perspectives on electric markets under deep decarbonization. Jacob’s prior appearances on Public Power Underground can be found below.


Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Resource Adequacy, Tail Risk, and Institutional Capability10 Jun 202401:14:01

Conleigh, Farhad, Ahlmahz, and Paul debrief on coverage of FERC Order 1920 then discuss resource adequacy, hedging tail risk, and preview business capability models.

Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, and Farhad Billimoria scan news stories after FERC’s release of Order 1920, then Conleigh Byers explains Resource adequacy, and Farhad Billimoria explains Hedging & Tail Risk in Electricity Markets.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!

03:17 - Short-to-Ground (FERC Order 1920 Edition)

41:03 - Hedging and Tail Risk in Electricity Markets By: Farhad Billimoria , Jacob Mays , Rahmat Poudineh

Abstract: A concern persistent in scarcity-based market designs for electricity over many years has been the illiquidity of markets for long-term contracts to hedge away volatile price exposures between generators and consumers. These missing markets have been attributed to a range of factors including retailer creditworthiness, market structure and the lack of demand side interest from consumers. Using a stochastic equilibrium model and insights from insurance theory, we demonstrate the inherent challenges of hedging a legacy thermal portfolio that is dominated by volatile fat-tailed commodities with significant tail dependence. Under such conditions the price required for generators to provide such hedges can be multiples of the expected value of prices. Our key insight is that when the real-world constraints of credit and financing are considered, the volatility of thermal fuels and their co-dependence under extremes may be a key reason as to why electricity markets have been incomplete in terms of long-term hedging contracts. Counterintuitively, in the context of the energy transition, our results show that, ceteris paribus, increasing the penetration of low carbon resources like wind, solar and energy storage, can add tail-diversity and improve contractability.

22:16 - The Future of Resource Adequacy in a Decarbonized Grid w/ Conleigh Byers

Conleigh Byers Resource Adequacy Harvard Energy Policy Seminar 25 4.93MB ∙ PDF file DownloadDownload


1:02:23 - Institutions in the electric sector are evolving like the eras of Taylor Swift, but are their business models evolving with them?

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Apoorv Bhargava on the Grid29 May 202401:35:14

Apoorv Bhargava discusses his work at WeaveGrid optimizing electric vehicle charging within distribution systems. The interview is wrapped by context and insights from the regular hosts: Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!


01:21 - 30 seconds of Theory

  • Farhad Billimoria on Distribution System Operators (DSOs)
  • Conleigh Byers on Transactive Energy
  • Ahlmahz Negash on the Energy Equity Gap

10:28 - Apoorv Bhargava on WeaveGrid and the Grid

53:38 - Apoorv Bhargava’s analogy; the electric grid is like a well stocked bar

1:00:27 - Updating our Priors

1:20:24 - Community Planning as Energy Planning

1:28:20 - ESA World Cup Standings

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

What it means for America's power grid w/ Katherine Blunt13 May 202401:19:36

Katherine Blunt joins Crystal Ball and Paul Dockery to discuss her reporting at the Wall Street Journal on the energy industry and her book, California Burning: The Fall of Pacific Gas and Electric--and What It Means for America's Power Grid.

Matthew Schroettnig joins Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery for the rest of the episode to cover utility risks, load growth, and the current landscape of America’s power grid.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!

03:13 - Short-to-Ground; a segment where we blow a fuse covering the news

18:39 - Katherine Blunt joins Crystal Ball and Paul Dockery to discuss her reporting at the Wall Street Journal on the energy industry and her book, California Burning: The Fall of Pacific Gas and Electric--and What It Means for America's Power Grid

49:13 - Katherine Blunt’s analogy; the grid is like a network of roads and highways


51:08 - Updating our Priors

1:07:20 - ESA (Energy System Analogies) World Cup Standings

1:08:11 - Matt Schroettnig’s analogy; electricity is like water in a biome

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Dr. Kyri Baker on AI & OPF29 Apr 202401:30:01

Dr. Kyri Baker, an assistant professor of engineering at the University of Colorado, makes a return visit to discuss the use of artificial intelligence for power grid optimization. Plus, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, Ahlmahz Negash, and Paul Dockery wrap the interview with an explanation of AI and all its acronyms.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!


01:19 - 30 second theory

  • Farhad Billimoria on “What is OPF?”
  • Conleigh Byers on “What’s the difference between artificial intelligence (AI), machine learning (ML), Deep Learning, Physics Informed Neural Networks (PINN), Large Language Models (LLM), generative AI, and general intelligence?”

14:28 - Dr. Kyri Baker: Using AI and Machine Learning for Power Grid Optimization

1:06:14 - Updating our Priors

1:23:26 - ESA (Energy System Analogies) World Cup Standings


Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

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photo credit Carl Bower for The New York Times

BONUS: Eras of the Electric Sector (Taylor's Version)19 Apr 202400:42:53

Katherine Blunt, author of California Burning, joins Crystal Ball and Paul Dockery to discuss the eras of the electric sector (Taylor's Version).

To celebrate Taylor Swift’s April 19th release of The Tortured Poets Department (and Tortured Poets Department: The Anthology), Katherine Blunt, Crystal Ball, and Paul Dockery recorded a special, bonus, episode dedicated to the Eras of the Electric Sector.

Katherine Blunt is the author of California Burning; The Fall of Pacific Gas and Electric--and What It Means for America's Power Grid which is the most approachable introduction to the history of the electric sector ever published! The book interprets, unpacks, and conveys the complex history of Pacific Gas & Electric, and, through it, provides an introduction to the history of the electric sector as well. Katherine Blunt joined Crystal Ball and Paul Dockery for an interview that’ll be part of an upcoming, regular, episode of Public Power Underground, but while we were together we took some time to record a discussion of the sector’s history.

In the recording (and attached 20 slide power point) Katherine, Crystal, and Paul explore the history of the electric sector and Pacific Gas & Electric through Taylor Swift’s discography.

The exploration answers the age old question of what electric sector milestone Taylor Swift wrote “You Belong With Me” about. And, because you know it’s what you wanted, there’s an official Eras of the Electric Sector Spotify playlist.

Yes, my wife and I share a Spotify account. And, yes, my whole family contributed to the playlist including the additions, modification, and resorting of songs like “The Last Great American Dynasty” starting the Efficiency Era instead of “Cardigan” and the addition of Jimmy Carter’s sweater speech as an electric sector milestone. But, no, we didn’t get a preview of The Tortured Poets Department to include songs from the new album in the playlist. 

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Distribution Hardware01 Apr 202401:25:37

exploration of approaches to distribution systems from microcontrollers and software to MOAR HARDWARE

Distribution infrastructure, microcontrollers in everything, hardware vs software solutions, and prices-to-devices get covered in a distribution systems episode with Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery featuring an interview with the enthusiastic Francis Sammy! A discussion that manages to navigate the nuances of MOAR HARDWARE as an actionable energy transition strategy while articulating the benefit of deploying smart, controllable, and price-responsive devices.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!

01:18 - 30 second theory

08:59 - Short-to-Ground; a segment where we blow a fuse covering the news

23:21 - Francis Sammy provides a practitioner perspective on distribution systems and the energy transition

Francis Sammy is a licensed professional engineer that works as the supervisor of the Systems Distribution Engineering workgroup for Seattle City Light. He was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York, studied electrical engineering at Howard University, and works on distribution systems for Seattle. Francis lives in Beacon Hill with his family of 3 and says you can find him riding around town on his bike, vibing out at a concert, laboring up the basketball court, or sliding down a mountain face first.

54:06 - Francis Sammy’s analogy; the grid is like an old, reliable car

56:38 - Updating our priors

1:17:55 - ESA (Energy System Analogies) World Cup Standings

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

The Transmission Expansion Era w/ John Hairston13 Mar 202401:21:35

John Hairston returns to discuss what BPA is doing to navigate an era of transmission expansion for the grid.

John Hairston, the CEO and Administrator of the Bonneville Power Administration, shares his enthusiasm for transmission and people in an interview with Paul Dockery and Crystal Ball. The interview is wrapped in informative discussion on energy industry news, research, and reflection by Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!


01:36 - How transmission is addressed in seminal texts

05:23 - Short-to-Ground; a segment where we blow a fuse covering the news.

17:17 - John Hairston’s interview with special-correspondent Crystal Ball

41:00 - John Hairston’s analogy; the electric system is like golf
45:24 - Crystal Ball’s analogy; the electric sector is evolving like the eras of Taylor Swift
1:17:33 - Updating our priors

1:15:22 - ESA (Energy System Analogies) World Cup Standings

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Grand Analogies of the Energy System01 Mar 202401:18:58

Conleigh, Farhad, Ahlmahz, and Paul start season six with a discussion of ways to understand the energy system and analogies that can be used to explore its complications

Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, Ahlmahz Negash, and Paul Dockery discuss various ways of understanding the energy system in the Season 6 Premiere of Public Power Underground. The episode starts with “Short-to-Ground,” a TL;DR segment where the hosts run through summaries of topical news from around the world and then have a short discussion of trends in the industry. Paul then introduces the ground rules for a season-spanning Energy System Analogies World Cup tournament. Lastly, the hosts discuss analogies for the energy system for consideration by future guests on Season 6. 

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!

04:17 - Promotion for Conleigh’s upcoming presentation for the Harvard Kennedy School’s Energy Policy Seminar: “The Future of Resource Adequacy in a Decarbonized Grid" - March 25, 2024 - Register with the link


06:54 - Short-to-Ground; a segment where we blow a fuse covering the news.

27:57 - 2024 ENERGY SYSTEM ANALOGIES WORLD CUP

33:04 - The electric sector is like the human body

37:00 - The electric sector is like a water catchment and irrigation system

44:30 - The electric sector is like back country skiiing

49:38 - Electric utilities function like a P-I-D controller for the energy system

59:43 - The electric sector is like air

01:01:20 - The electric sector is like the Mumbai dabbawala tiffin service

01:06:03 - The electric sector is like a game of twister

01:08:59 - Ways of understanding the energy system are like moral theories for right action


Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Season 6 Preview & Sisterhood Merch!12 Feb 202400:03:58

The next season of Public Power Underground is coming soon with a new format and new regular hosts. Subscribe to make sure you don't miss the season premiere!

After a short break, Public Power Underground is coming back for its sixth season of energy enthusiasm! This season Paul Dockery and Ahlmahz Negash will be joined by world-renowned energy researchers Conleigh Byers and Farhad Billimoria to investigate energy industry and energy-industry-adjacent topics by bringing together expert insights with practitioner perspectives. 


The episode format for Public Power Underground has evolved for Season 6, which will include a new, season-spanning energy-inspired game. Tune in for the season premiere for more.

Season 6 Contributors
Paul Dockery
is a Senior Manager of Energy Resource Strategy & Planning for Seattle City Light and the Creative Director of Public Power Underground. 

Ahlmahz Negash is a Principal Data Analyst for Tacoma Power, an energy system researcher, and Executive Producer of Public Power Underground.

Conleigh Byers is an Environmental Fellow at the Harvard University Center for the Environment based at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. She uses tools from operations research, electrical engineering, and economics to design decarbonized energy systems, with a focus on power systems operations and planning. Her current research focuses on achieving resource adequacy under deep decarbonization, hosted by Professor William Hogan. She holds a doctorate in Electrical Engineering from ETH Zürich and a dual masters in Electrical Engineering & Computer Science and Technology & Policy from MIT.

Farhad Billimoria is the Director, Electricity Markets for S&P Global and a Visiting Research Fellow at the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies. He has previously served as a Principal in Market Design at the Australian Energy Market Operator and has a background in international infrastructure and energy finance, investment and capital markets.

The Sisterhood of the Traveling Electron
During the Season 5 Finale, friend-of-the-underground Jordan White referenced the buildout of transmission infrastructure as a “Sisterhood of the Traveling Electron”. As an enthusiast of both romantic comedies and electric utilities, the cross-over merch idea was too perfect to pass up. After-all, just like the magical pants from the early-aughts classic The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, transmission keeps us connected across distances during tough transitions.

Public Power Underground doesn’t have a storefront to sell merch anymore, but there is a feature where I can share a design for others to order from Printful. There’s no revenue coming to Public Power Underground from the sale and I provide no warranty or guaranty for the merch. But I did promise that if I ever translated concept to merch, I’d send it to subscribers of the newsletter. For links to Sisterhood of the Traveling Electron merchandise subscribe on substack at publicpowerunderground.substack.com.

Office Hours w/ Professor Jacob Mays15 Nov 202301:26:09

“This paper argues for the centrality of real-time markets, which are cleared sequentially with a single binding interval.”

Prof. Dr. Jacob Mays and Paul Dockery have an in-depth discussion in Hollister Hall at Cornell University about Prof. Mays recently released working paper on Sequential Pricing of Electricity. The discussion is only available as a podcast and is published uninterrupted and unedited.

Mays, J. (2023). Sequential Pricing of Electricity. Working Paper, School of Civil and Environmental Engineering, Cornell University.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

The conversation explores the paper in 8 parts.

1. The goal of the paper

“The goal of this paper is to promote a shift in the discussion of price formation in wholesale electricity markets from a static to a dynamic modeling framework. While the design and analysis of systems with significant reservoir hydropower have long relied on dynamic models, most other systems have come to rely on simpler static models that have nevertheless been useful in contexts with limited variability, uncertainty, and intertemporal constraints. The entry of large quantities of renewable and battery storage has increased the salience of all these factors, necessitating a richer modeling framework.” p. 40“This paper argues for the centrality of real-time markets, which are cleared sequentially with a single binding interval.” p. 3.

2. Framework to assess the effect of price formation proposals on market outcomes

“This paper develops a framework to assess the effect of such proposals on market outcomes, investigating how choices made by wholesale market operators regarding algorithms for commitment, dispatch, and market clearing can affect incentives for operation and investment.” p. 2“Step 1: specifying the model for operations” Section 3.2.1, p. 15“Step 2: specifying a parameterization” Section 3.2.2, p. 15“Step 3: specifying a pricing policy” Section 3.2.3, pp. 15-16

3. Static vs Dynamic modeling frameworks

“The paper’s conceptual goal is a shift from the static picture of the merit-order curve in thermal-dominant markets to a dynamic understanding of price formation. Electricity prices are often colloquially described as the cost to serve an additional unit of load for a given period. In a static, convex economic dispatch model, prices that maximize efficiency both in short-run operations and long-run investment can be calculated as the dual variables corresponding to power balance constraints equating supply and demand. With no intertemporal operating constraints, dual values are typically determined by the fuel cost of thermal resources. In a dynamic model, an additional unit of load in a given period not only entails a direct cost in the present period, but also places the system in a slightly different state entering the subsequent operating period (e.g., with more or less energy stored in batteries). Dynamic models have been long been understood as necessary to the design and analysis of markets in regions with significant reservoir hydropower (see, e.g., Pereira and Pinto (1991) as well as more recent reviews in Steeger et al. (2014) and Aasg ̊ard et al. (2019)). In other regions, including the U.S. systems that serve as the primary motivation of this paper, markets have evolved in a context where storage was negligible. This state of affairs is set to change rapidly over the coming decade, as models typically find that decarbonized electricity systems will feature substantial quantities of storage (Jenkins et al., 2018; Williams et al., 2021; Frazier et al., 2021).” p. 2

4. Importance of dynamic models to regions with storage hydro. p. 38
5. Section 5. Evaluating price formation policies, pages 36-37

“The broader point of the examples is to establish the need for the proposed framework in evaluating price formation: even with the limited scope of tests included here, the models produce a wide range of price outcomes.” p. 37

6. Flexible Ramping Products vs Fast Start Pricing

“We note several differences between the (DLAC − NLB − θ) and (DLAC − RT − θ) policies. First, while we assumed in Section 4.3 that net load biasing would not result in any binding forward financial positions, the (DLAC −RT −θ) policy directly affects the quantity of reserves procured in the binding interval.” p. 30

7. Policy and parameterization are choices that matter: Section 5.3 Long-run consequences, pages 39-40

“The choice of operating policy can have a significant impact on the total revenue across all resources. [...] In general, resource-specific revenues track the total charges.” however “storage is a notable exception with revenues deviating significantly from that seen by the market as a whole.”“They indicate the potential for substantial misallocation of investment due to inefficiencies in spot price formation.”

8. Policy Recommendation: Advocate for high-fidelity simulation tools

“Accordingly, a second policy recommendation is to advocate for high-fidelity simulation tools enabling system operators to compare operational performance and pricing outcomes with alternative algorithmic choices and reserve product specifications, putting them in position to credibly demonstrate the value of new reserve products and parameterize them efficiently.” p. 5.


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If you haven’t listened to prior discussion with Prof. Mays, you can check out prior conversations:


Prof. Jacob Mays on Electric Markets and Resource Adequacy
Paul Dockery
·
January 27, 2023

Jacob Mays, PhD, Matt Schroettnig, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery discuss a paper Prof. Mays co-authored on contractual form in electricity reliability obligations, how it applies to the program getting developed in the Northwest, and what perspective he has on electric market development in the Northwest.

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Electric Market Enthusiasm, pt. 1: Professor Jacob Mays on Electric Market Design
Paul Dockery
·
May 19, 2022

Jacob Mays, Assistant Professor in the School of Civil and Environmental Engineering at Cornell University, answers Paul’s remedial questions on how electric markets function and what the Pacific Northwest should be considering when approaching market expansion incrementally in a wide ranging and engaging conversation.

-----

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Season Finale: Hot Takes on Transmission06 Nov 202300:55:21

Inspired by the YouTube series *Hot Ones*, Whitney Muse (Senior Policy Advisor in the White House Office of Clean Energy Innovation and Implementation), Mark Lauby (Senior Vice President and Chief Engineer at North American Electric Reliability Corporation), and Jordan White (Executive Director, Development at GridLiance) join co-hosts Paul and Crystal to discuss increasingly controversial topics while eating a series of increasingly spicy wings. The conversation triangulates hot topics in the energy industry from engineering, policy, and business perspectives.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

Round 1: Mild Spice - ERO Report / Texas & Utah Inverter caused outages

Round 2: Medium Spice - No Transition without Transmission & Regulatory Frameworks for Change

Round 3: Hot - Joint Federal-State Task Force on Electric Transmission  & Western States Transmission Initiative

Round 4: Spicy

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Electrification is Happening w/ Steve Pantano and Danielle Walker06 Oct 202301:16:14

Steve Pantano from Rewiring America and Danielle Walker from the Department of Energy’s Office of State and Community Energy Programs join Ahlmahz Negash, PhD and Paul Dockery for a discussion of electrification. The crews discuss the Inflation Reduction Act’s Home Energy Rebates, Rewiring America’s IRA Savings Calculator, best practices in building electrification, and the newly announced American Climate Corp!

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

08:41 - Hierarchy of Electrification
17:53 - Home Energy Rebates Program
30:44 - Rewiring America Calculator
44:34 - Building Electrification Best Practices - ACEEE report
50:31 - Workforce! 
          American Climate Corp
          Clean Energy Corp
59:27 - Alhmahz’s Insightful Question of the Week
1:06:29 - Electrician for a Day
1:12:52 - Danielle Walker’s Closing Thoughts

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

*buzzed history* with Mark Ohrenschall, Shauna McReynolds and Crystal Ball 21 Sep 202301:24:35

three energy historians join public power underground for an infotaining and slightly irreverent discussion of the major milestones for the electric industry in the northwest

--------------------

Mark Ohrenschall, Shauna McReynolds and Crystal Ball join and Paul Dockery to discuss the history of the electric industry in the Northwest from acronyms to statutes and a myriad of institutions along the way. There were three primary texts used for the conversation.

  1. NewsData’s list of Western Energy Acronyms
  2. Public Power Council’s excellent guide to Public Power in the Pacific Northwest, the Public Power Chronicle
  3. Public Generating Pool’s famous Organized Market Retrospective. 

The recording ends with Mark Ohrenschall’s closing thoughts on his final day as Executive Editor of NewsData.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

03:27 - Acronym Anagrams

13:06 - Historian’s ranking of major milestones

38:13 - Preference

48:03 - Whoops

56:25 - Energy Policy Acts

58:42 - The Energy Crisis

1:06:57 - Market Evolution

1:21:10 - Mark Ohrenschall’s Closing Thoughts

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Lorenzo Kristov and Josh Keeling on Maximizing DER Deployment08 Sep 202301:13:57

Lorenzo Kristov and Josh Keeling join Ahlmahz and Paul to talk about maximizing the deployment of distributed energy resources but first we make them say something nice about electric utilities

Lorenzo Kristov and Josh Keeling join Ahlmahz Negash, PhD and Paul Dockery for a discussion of FERC 2222, maximizing the distribution-level customer value of distributed energy resources, international examples of unbundling the functions of distribution utilities, and 80/20 advice on how to make the most progress toward DER deployment. First, we make them compliment electric utilities.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

12:17 - say something nice about electric utilities

Lorenzo and Josh brought a lot of great compliments and some not-so-nice compliments. Among the list of compliments they didn’t get to but shared by Josh Keeling afterward:
  • Pretty good at the poles and wires game
  • Never get confused about the differences between “useful life” and “economic life”
  • Captain planet-like super team of lawyers, economists, engineers, and accountants
  • Never scared to pilot something
  • Always happy to explain what “you just don’t understand” about distribution engineering
  • Very optimistic: can always find a way to point out how “used and useful” things are
  • Really good at finding new ways to apply the word “innovation”
  • Never too quick into something “at scale”
  • Really are the best of both world between trudging local government and greedy corporate monopoly

15:51 - discussion of FERC Order No. 2222

25:05 - maximizing the distribution-level and customer value of DERs

40:06 - international examples of unbundling the functions of distribution utilities

48:58 - 80/20 of DER interconnection

1:00:05 - Ahlmahz’s insightful question of the week

1:03:10 - DER for a day

1:08:20 - Josh Keeling’s closing thoughts

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Best Practices in Power Planning w/ Ric O'Connell and Anna Sommer17 Aug 202301:13:38

Ric O’Connell and Anna Sommers join Ahlmahz Negash, PhD and Paul Dockery for a deep dive into power planning best practices including planning for extremes, open source models, and best in class computational techniques.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

09:41 - how to explain power planning to a five year old

19:00 - best practices in power planning

58:10 - Ahlmahz’s unfair question of the week: what about AI?

1:03:50 - PUC-for-a-day

for more about open source planning, GridLab recently collaborated with RMI on an open source modeling report. you can find it here.

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

BONUS: 3Ps of transmission in the West07 Aug 202301:15:13

Transmission experts talk about horror stories from permitting Idaho Power's Boardman to Hemmingway transmission line and react to a regional planning organization scorecard

--------------------

Adam Richins, Christina Hayes, and Pam Sporborg join Paul Dockery at Paddy’s Bar & Grill for an after-hour conversation about transmission in the West. The recording starts with another edition of Energy Enthusiasm, Distilled where the experts distill complicated topics in infotaining ways while on a clock. The conversation then tackles the 3Ps of transmission policy (Planning, Permitting, and Paying-for) and closes out with a new, unscripted game: FERC-for-a-Day.

We also discussed briefly the cultural importance of the Bonneville Power Administration’s rate hearing room for the energy community in the northwest, which led me (Paul) to bring up an Ezra Klein podcast about cultural evolution. A link is included here for those who want the background information.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Utility Maximization, Community Input, and Solarpunk Stories with Prof. Dr. Destenie Nock20 Jul 202301:29:30

Prof. Dr. Destenie Nock joins Dr. Ahlmahz Negash and Paul Dockery for a conversation about what the grid of the future *should* look like. The discussion dives deep into (1) the energy equity gap, (2) a methodology for finding the optimal expansion of a power system under the objective of maximizing social benefit, (3) the Gini coefficient, and (4) how to use the Strategic Objective Hierarchy combined with the expertise of social scientists to translate community input into rigorously measurable inputs into an optimization model!

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!


09:24 - A benefit maximization approach to utility planning

Destenie Nock, Todd Levin, Erin Baker, Changing the policy paradigm: A benefit maximization approach to electricity planning in developing countries, Applied Energy, Volume 264, 2020, 114583, ISSN 0306-2619, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.apenergy.2020.114583.

28:13 - Amplifying community leader perspectives

Erin Baker, Destenie Nock, Todd Levin, Samuel A. Atarah, Anthony Afful-Dadzie, David Dodoo-Arhin, Léonce Ndikumana, Ekundayo Shittu, Edwin Muchapondwa, Charles Van-Hein Sackey, Who is marginalized in energy justice? Amplifying community leader perspectives of energy transitions in Ghana, Energy Research & Social Science, Volume 73, 2021, 101933, ISSN 2214-6296, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.erss.2021.101933.

Prof. Dr. Destenie Nock explainer videos: https://www.youtube.com/@dr.destenienock4164/videos

48:53 - Unveiling hidden energy poverty using the energy equity gap

Cong, S., Nock, D., Qiu, Y.L. et al. Unveiling hidden energy poverty using the energy equity gap. Nat Commun 13, 2456 (2022). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-022-30146-5

1:07:38 - What should the grid of the future look like?

1:12:42 - Ahlmahz’s insightful question of the week: What’s the overlap between energy justice and energy assistance?

“Jenkins et al. [49] review three core tenets of energy justice: 1) distributional justice, relating to equal distribution of both the costs and benefits of the energy system; 2), recognition justice, relating to the fair representation of individuals; and 3) procedural justice, providing equal access to decision making processes.”From Who is marginalized in energy justice? Amplifying community leader perspectives of energy transitions in Ghana, Section 1:

1:18:27 - from Human Batteries to Solarpunk - a new Public Power Underground game!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Debra Smith hosts Randy Hardy, Bill Drummond and Steve Wright06 Jul 202301:07:45

Debra Smith, Randy Hardy, Bill Drummond, and Steve Wright recorded an info-taining conversation live on-stage at NWPPA’s 83rd Annual Conference and Membership Meeting in Anchorage, Alaska. Debra hosts the three former Administrators of the Bonneville Power Administration who continue to engage in energy policy. The discussion ranges from greatest regrets to reasons for optimism, and proudest moments. At the end Paul Dockery joins to facilitate an energy inspired game called Energy Enthusiasm Distilled.

The episode was edited prior to the news of Debra Smith’s surgery. For updates on her recovery you can find updates on Caring Bridge. Her electric utility enthusiast friends wish her a speedy and full recovery!

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Risk perspectives; from strategy to execution with Kevin Nordt and Paul Dietz20 Jun 202301:29:33

We discuss how utility risk management is a lot like dungeons and dragons: creatively managing risk by leveraging strengths to maximize the likelihood of beneficial outcomes when solving problems.

Kevin Nordt, Paul Dietz, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery talk about managing market risk from utility risk managers perspectives. Including (1) putting uncertainty in perspective, (2) organizational and customer risk tolerance, (3) translating risk tolerance strategies for risk management, and (4) risk based thinking in the context of power supply. Plus the crew answers an insightful question from Ahlmahz and they discuss the set up of an energy inspired dungeons and dragons campaign.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

07:59 - Risks as friend or foe

15:18 - Risk tolerance

32:39 - Risk awareness

52:06 - Risk based thinking in the context of power supply

1:02:52 - Ahlmahz’s insightful question of the week

1:14:14 - Dams and Distribution; setting up an energy industry inspired Dungeons and Dragons campaign

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

BONUS: Windowless Conference Room Edition01 Jun 202301:03:32

Ben Serrurier, Lea Fisher, Matt Schroettnig, and Paul Dockery share some energy themed maybe-good-maybe-bad-brainstorming ideas during a special windowless conference room in-person recording.

Ben Serrurier, Lea Fisher, Matthew Schroettnig, and Paul Dockery were all in Anchorage, Alaska for NWPPA’s 83rd Annual Conference and Membership Meeting so they decided to borrow a windowless conference room for an informal brainstorming session about energy and energy-adjacent ideas. The format for the bonus episode is inspired by a Bill Simmons segment with Kevin Wildes on “The Bill Simmons Podcast” called “Half-Baked Ideas”1. 

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

05:50 - Cowpoke ISO

09:20 - Kids & Grids Our Hidden Powers

14:18 - “Space: The Energy Frontier” - Space Elevator w/ Space Solar & Wireless Transmission PG&E & Start-Up Solaren Corp. Plan To Beam Solar Power From Space

21:38 - Wireless Transmission, just on it’s own

24:09 - District cooling Deep Lake Water Cooling System

27:32 - Cut me off, conservation

36:28 - Text-to-bid for price responsive demand; $ for % load reduced https://twitter.com/kyrib/status/1544018634762231808?s=20&t=7ewwz-xBMUixjkXEXe0BCw

45:30 - Connect & Manage for generator interconnection https://twitter.com/jacob_mays/status/1655966663135600640?s=20

50:02 - crypto as a battery; mandatory demand response programs for crypto mining facilities

52:02 - explain the grid to kids with jump rope https://twitter.com/NicoleKelner/status/1631352402086354945?s=20

52:57 - slower planes

55:58 - “Opt-in to save the distribution lines” // community infrastructure opt-in https://twitter.com/waDNR

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

1 the half-baked ideas segment starts at the 1:13:00 mark of the Bill Simmons Podcast episode

Debriefing from a Markets+ Leadership Forum18 May 202301:03:24

Pam Sporborg, Spencer Gray, Joe Taylor and Paul Dockery debrief and synthesize the discussion from an SPP Markets+ Leadership Forum hosted by Tacoma Power, NV Energy, and the Bonneville Power Administration on May 12th, 2023.

05:04 - Benefits, Opportunities and Barriers to Market Expansion

18:18 - Long-run resource portfolios adapted to market design

30:00 - Seams

41:49 - The toughest outstanding issues for market expansion in the west

56:13 - Final Predictions

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Market Design, Slinkies, and Synchronous Condensers with Farhad Billimoria and Conleigh Byers, PhD08 May 202301:36:38

learning lessons about deeply decarbonized electricity markets from around the world including optimal prices in non-convex markets, reliability insurance, and system security

Farhad Billimoria, Conleigh Byers, PhD, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery discuss adaptation of market design for the energy transition including fat tails and increased exposure to extremes; batteries and price responsive demand; natural gas fragility and marginal pricing; and inverter-driven resources and system security. Then the team plays a new game where they synthesize expert explanations of convex vs non-convex pricing and reliability insurance. 

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

05:30 - Lessons Learned on deeply decarbonized electric systems from electricity markets around the world with “Handbook on Electricity Markets” and P.L. Joskow’s “From hierarchies to markets and partially back again in electricity: responding to decarbonization and security of supply goals” as background

07:06 - Lesson 1: natural gas fragility and marginal pricing

17:20 - Lesson 2: batteries and price responsive demand

24:23 - Lesson 3: fat tails and increased exposure to extremes

38:20 - Lesson 4: Inverter based grids and system security (synchronous condensers and grid inertia)

48:15 - Wonky energy game synthesizing expert explanations

1:27:36 - Ahlmahz’s insightful question of the week

1:32:18 - Conleigh Byers, PhD’s Closing Thoughts

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

1 Farhad Billimoria, Rahmatallah Poudineh, Market design for resource adequacy: A reliability insurance overlay on energy-only electricity markets, Utilities Policy, Volume 60, 2019, 100935, ISSN 0957-1787, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jup.2019.100935.

2 Conleigh Byers, Gabriela Hug, Long-run optimal pricing in electricity markets with non-convex costs, European Journal of Operational Research, Volume 307, Issue 1, 2023, Pages 351-363, ISSN 0377-2217, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ejor.2022.07.052.

3 P. Andrianesis, D. Bertsimas, M. C. Caramanis and W. W. Hogan, "Computation of Convex Hull Prices in Electricity Markets With Non-Convexities Using Dantzig-Wolfe Decomposition," in IEEE Transactions on Power Systems, vol. 37, no. 4, pp. 2578-2589, July 2022, doi: 10.1109/TPWRS.2021.3122000.

4 C. Byers and G. Hug, "Flexibility Compensation with Increasing Stochastic Variable Renewable Energy in Non-Convex Markets," 2022 17th International Conference on Probabilistic Methods Applied to Power Systems (PMAPS), Manchester, United Kingdom, 2022, pp. 1-6, doi: 10.1109/PMAPS53380.2022.9810627.

A conversation about a just mid-transition w/ Dr. Emily Grubert and Dr. Frank Incropera27 Apr 202301:24:02

Emily Grubert, PhD, Frank Incropera, PhD, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery discuss natural gas distribution system obsolescence, energy security during the transition away from fossil fuels, the magic of heat pumps, increased reliance on electric utility reliability, and the wickedness of the problem of a just energy transition.

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

07:03 - Discussion of what constitutes a wicked problem and whether the mid-transition qualifies
     - Climate Change: A Wicked Problem by Frank Incropera, PhD, Chapter 1 - Energy, economics, and climate change
     - Residential Cold Climate Heat Pump Challenge | Department of Energy
     - News Releases - Rheem Manufacturing Company

44:57 - Natural Gas distribution systems’ obsolescence
     - Designing the mid-transition: A review of medium-term challenges for coordinated decarbonization in the United States
     - Grubert, E., & Hastings-Simon, S. (2022). Designing the mid-transition: A review of medium-term challenges for coordinated decarbonization in the United States. WIREs Climate Change, 13( 3), e768.

59:19 - Electrification of end-uses and the need for reliability
     - Climate Change: A Wicked Problem by Frank Incropera, PhD, Chapter 10 -      - The ethics of climate change

1:12:03 - Ahlmahz’s insightful question of the week

1:19:49 - Dr. Frank Incropera’s Closing Thoughts

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

BONUS EPISODE: Power Contracts in Transition14 Apr 202301:06:51

Laura Trolese, Tyler Wolford, Matt Johnson, and Paul Dockery recorded an episode at a spas about how power contracts could change during a transition from bilateral to centrally dispatched markets.

In a special, bonus episode recorded at the One Ocean Resort & Spas in Atlantic Beach, Florida during The Energy Authority’s 2023 Energy Symposium, Laura Trolese, Tyler Wolford, Matt Johnson, and Paul Dockery discuss the impact of transitioning from bilateral markets to centrally dispatched day-ahead markets on long-term wholesale power supply agreements.

Caution: it gets extremely wonky.

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

A conversation about transmission w/ Rob Gramlich and Kathleen Staks04 Apr 202301:18:20

Rob, Kathleen, Ahlmahz, and Paul discuss the transmission expansion: it's importance, it's barriers, and it's path forward.

Rob Gramlich, Kathleen Staks, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery discuss transmission policy, planning, and funding in light of the increased need for an interconnected grid due to electrification of end-uses, new generator interconnections, and increasing footprint of extreme weather events.

07:34 - Department of Energy’s Grid Deployment Office release of a draft National Transmission Needs Study

23:43 - The Quagmire of Transmission Investment and Cost Recovery

  • Rob’s 3 Ps of Transmission Policy Reform
  • Rob’s tweets about the importance of solving the cost allocation quagmire
  • A brilliant quote by Rob on the conundrum of transmission investment in a New York Times article
  • Ahlmahz’s articles (part 1 and part 2) on the Grid as a Public Good

48:26 - Why transmission and market expansion is important to commercial and industrial customers

59:48 - Interconnection queues and solutions for clearing them

  • Prof Jacob Mays hot take about Connect and Manage and how it relates to Resource Adequacy
  • Prof Jesse Jenkins solutioning on #energytwitter

1:09:50 - Ahlmahz’s insightful question of the week

1:15:07 - Kathleen Stak’s Closing Thoughts


Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!


You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us!

Debriefing from a Regional Expansion Summit27 Mar 202301:20:16

With quotes from the hit comedy “Shrinking”, Paul navigates the vibes after a Regional Expansion Summit hosted by Seattle City Light, Portland General Electric, and the Bonneville Power Administration

Jan Smutny-Jones, Mary Wiencke, Jim Shetler, and Chris Robinson join Paul Dockery to debrief and synthesize the participants shared understanding after a California/Northwest Regional Expansion Summit hosted by Seattle City Light, Portland General Electric, and the Bonneville Power Administration on March 10th, 2023.

In true Public Power Underground fashion the topics were introduced with quotes from the first two episodes of the new Apple TV comedy Shrinking starring Jason Segel, Jessica Williams, and Harrison Ford who all play psychologists. The timestamps for the quotes are included in the show notes, just in case you want to get some laughs before diving into the discussion.

05:03 - History of Market Development in the West

“Classic compassion fatigue, we ask questions, listen, stay non-judgmental and you don’t make that face” - Dr. Paul Rhoades played by Harrison Ford (Episode 1, 10:13)

19:12 - Benefits, Opportunities and Barriers

“Look, I don't have people in my home, it’s not that I’m antisocial. I know that you do this [referring to Jimmy and Gaby asking probing questions] to shame me because I'm a somewhat private person, but it just strengthens my resolve. I’m pro boundaries, my family is for me, my home is my fortress of solitude” - Dr. Paul Rhoades played by Harrison Ford (Episode 2, 7:54)

48:12 - Decarbonization pathways and the role of Regional Markets

“I know someone does [i.e., who “gets it”], he’s tall and he calls me too much.” - Dr. Paul Rhoades played by Harrison Ford (Episode 2, 17:16)

1:03:55 - A shared understanding of the mutual benefits of ongoing collaboration

“Hey, anybody that helps us raise our kids with love and respect, we should be grateful” - Dr. Paul Rhoades played by Harrison Ford (Episode 2, 12:43)

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

A Conversation About Representative Workforce w/ Jackie Flowers and Humaira Falkenberg20 Mar 202301:25:30

Jackie Flowers, PE, Humaira Falkenberg, Karen Heim, and Ahlmahz Negash, PhD discuss pathways to workforces that are representative of our communities in an all-female-cast episode of Public Power Underground.

05:07 - Introduction of Diverse Workforce of the Future article by Jackie Flowers, PE, in NWPPA’s Monthly Bulletin

24:14 - Lessons learned from Tacoma’s experience with the Math-Engineering-Science-Achievement (MESA) program that could apply to open positions at peer utilities today

46:15 - Sharing wisdom in mentorship and sponsoring

57:38 - Ahlmahz’s Insightful Question of the Week

1:17:03 - Short to Ground

1:19:40 - Humaira Falkenberg’s Closing Thoughts

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Market Disruptors - LIVE from the Main Stage14 Mar 202301:02:32

LIVE! from the main stage at The Energy Authority's 2023 Energy Symposium, Paul and Laura moderate a panel on market disruptors with energy executives and leaders


Paul Dockery and Laura Trolese moderate a panel on disruptors to resource adequacy, day-ahead, and real-time markets at The Energy Authority’s 2023 Energy Symposium with Melie Vincent, Richard Dillon, and Jamie Mahne. After a serious discussion of disruptors, they tackle less serious energy analogies in a game called “Disruptors or Duds”.

07:34 - Large weather patterns changing evaluation of resource adequacy

21:40 - Accounting for new uncertainty in day-ahead markets

32:32 - Volatility of natural gas and real-time markets

46:38 - Disruptors or Duds: a niche pop culture or sports reference as an analogue to an energy industry topic

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, where you’re valued and appreciated.

Sarah Edmonds on Grid Integration Services02 Feb 202301:18:12

Sarah Edmonds, Crystal Ball, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery discuss a how resource adequacy design theory applies to resource adequacy program design, why FERC asked questions about market based rate authority, what it means for a program to be interoperable, and where inter-regional transmission is coming from. 

06:08 - Reminder for friends and fans of Therese Hampton to RSVP for her Celebration of Life and information about the Therese Hampton Endowed Scholarship for Economics and Business1at Portland State University.

09:53 - translating theory into a program, debriefing from the interview with Prof. Jacob Mays

23:55 - Market Based Rate Authority and the status at FERC

35:45 - Interoperability of a resource adequacy program with multiple markets

47:57 - Interregional transmission and the West

1:05:55 - Short to Ground; where we TL;DR our way through the rest of the news

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, where you’re valued and appreciated.

---------------

1 At the hyperlink go to “Search All Funds” and either find or search for the Therese Hampton Endowed Scholarship for Economics and Business. Image below.

Prof. Jacob Mays on Electric Markets & Resource Adequacy27 Jan 202301:24:39

Jacob Mays, PhD, Matt Schroettnig, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery discuss a paper Prof. Mays co-authored on contractual form in electricity reliability obligations, how it applies to the program getting developed in the Northwest, and what perspective he has on electric market development in the Northwest.

06:52 - discuss recently published article by Professor Mays and Han Shu

23:54 - applying Prof. Mays insights to the Western Power Pool’s Western Resource Adequacy Program

47:27 - thoughts on the NYT article on electric utility deregulation

54:56 - New Segment!: Ahlmahz’s Insightful Question of the Week!

1:01:43 - Short to Ground; where we TL;DR our way through the rest of the news

1:11:53 - we talk a lot more about Texas’s controversial Performance Credit Mechanism

You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, where you’re valued and appreciated.

Distribution Systems w/ Prof. Kyri Baker12 Jan 202301:01:30

Kyri Baker, PhD, Karen Heim, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery address topical energy issues and share stories in the latest episode of Public Power Underground.

06:36 - hot takes and lessons to be learned from Winter Storm Elliott

19:26 - debrief from White House Electrification Summit

33:00 - transformer shortages and why distribution needs to be taken more seriously in discussion of electrification

43:25 - Short to Ground; where we TL;DR our way through the rest of the news

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

LIVE from the Lounge!!22 Dec 202200:56:25

LIVE from the Lounge at NWPPA’s Power Supply Conference hosts Paul Dockery, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Dan Catchpole play an energy-themed analogy game; Arne Olson and Laura Trolese make sports analogies to electric markets in a continuation of Season 4’s Electric Market Enthusiasm Series; and Debra Smith joins to rant about energy and energy-adjacent topics in a rant wheel segment inspired by Lovett or Leave It.

03:22 - the Underground vs OpenAI: a game of energy-adjacent analogies with contestants Doug Gilmore and Matt Schroettnig

16:30 - Electric Market Enthusiasm pt 5.1: sports analogies for electric markets w/ Arne Olson and Laura Trolese

35:47 - the rant wheel w/ Debra Smith; and special contributors Crystal Ball and Matt Schroettnig

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Snowtel w/ Nicole Hughes09 Dec 202201:11:21

Nicole Hughes, Karen Heim, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery address topical energy issues and share stories in the latest episode of Public Power Underground.

06:43 - debrief from The NY Times article on the opportunities awaiting electric utilities

24:34 - another run at transmission siting reform

39:34 - Southwest Power Pool Markets+ detailed design proposal 

57:11 - Short to Ground; where we TL;DR our way through the rest of the news

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

BONUS EPISODE: Original Cast, Nostalgia Pod05 Dec 202200:15:21

Goodbyes are hard and tend to be cringeworthy. WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A SPECIAL EPISODE!!! The original cast of Public Power Underground gets together for a nostalgic recording with a throwback script to celebrate Ian Bledsoe's promotion to Senior Power Analyst, and acknowledge Paul Dockery's last day at Clatskanie PUD.

3:48 - Celebration of Ian Bledsoe's promotion to Senior Power Analyst!
8:06 - Conveyance of Anadromous Championship smelt belts for best friends of the underground because they kept coming back
12:03 - Paul gives a pep talk on the difficulty of transitions while Ian plays the ukelele

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it's work to watch!

Programs and Markets w/ Lea Fisher01 Dec 202201:10:57

Lea Fisher, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, Dan Catchpole, and Paul Dockery cover electric utility and electric-utility-adjacent news in Season 5, Episode 3.

06:32 - introduce Ahlmahz Negash, PhD as new co-host for Public Power Underground

Ahlmahz has been a recurring guest on Public Power Underground and even accepted the designation of a Special Correspondent during earlier seasons. She has a PhD in Electrical Engineering from the University of Washington, was recently the Chair of the Pacific Northwest Utility Conference Committee’s System Planning Committee, is a recipient of PNUCC’s “Albert Einstein Award”, and is currently on sabbatical from Tacoma Public Utilities where she is a Senior Power Analyst. [I forgot to do an adequate introduction during the recording because I figured y’all knew Ahlmahz, but then I realized I shouldn’t take knowledge for granted and am hopeful y’all will look here.]


09:18 - a lot going on with WRAP

27:05 - tensions/tradeoffs of the incremental approach to markets

43:22 - reliability assessment: Not Great

53:55 - Short to Ground; where we TL;DR our way through the rest of the news

1:04:07 - Paul shares some personal news


You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Politics and Policy w/ Travis Kavulla21 Nov 202201:09:58

Travis Kavulla, Abigail Sawyer, Dan Catchpole, and Paul Dockery cover electric utility and electric-utility-adjacent news in Season 5, Episode 2.

05:51 - energy angles to election coverage

21:15 - Travis Kavulla acts as the Underground’s Special Correspondent from the National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners’ (NARUC) Annual Meeting in New Orleans

32:57 - Travis Kavulla’s take on bifurcating spot market price formation


45:33 - legislative mandates for RTO participation from a former regulator’s perspective

55:58 - Short to Ground; where we TL;DR our way through the rest of the news

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Clean Dispatchable Resource Enthusiasm w/ Kieran Connolly11 Nov 202201:14:22

Kieran Connolly, Dan Catchpole, Abigail Sawyer, and Paul Dockery kick off the Season 5 premier of Public Power Underground.

06:11 - what evolution into a centrally dispatched market means for a hydro-centric region

18:42 - how does increased deployment of wind and solar in the Northwest impact hydro operations

29:05 - thoughts on SMRs in a hydro dominated region like the Pacific Northwest

38:52 - hydro operations under stressed grid conditions

53:46 - Short to Ground; where we TL;DR our way through the rest of the news

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!


Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Electric Market Enthusiasm, pt. 5: an Expert Panel on where Sports! and Markets! combine.18 Aug 202201:25:27

In the fifth installment of Public Power Underground’s Electric Market Enthusiasm series, an expert panel including Laura Trolese (Senior Market Design & Policy Analyst, The Energy Authority), Carrie Simpson (Director - Western Markets, Xcel Energy), and Jeff Spires (Director - Power, PowerEx) discuss different choices made in market paradigms and how it all makes sense. 

Specifically the discussion is framed as a compare and contract episode of different market design choices, but in a fun, infotaining way using professional sports analogies whenever possible. The notes from the analogies are available as a google sheet (← link works).

05:59 - Resource Adequacy is like Roster Management for professional sports leagues

25:24 - Real Time Markets are “the game”

43:34 - Day Ahead Markets are like practice / training / coaching

55:50 - Transitioning from bilateral to centrally dispatched markets make comparisons complex

01:09:23 - Transmission cost recovery is as controversial as who pays for professional sports stadiums

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

FERC Chair Richard Glick! featured in part 4 of our Electric Market Enthusiasm series11 Aug 202200:41:25

Richard Glick, the Chair of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), joined Crystal Ball, Matt Schroettnig, and Paul Dockery for the fourth installation of our Electric Market Enthusiasm series. We try to keep it light while discussing transmission, batteries, price formation, the incremental approach to market expansion, governance, and FERC’s recently published five year strategic plan. To close it out we played an outro game called "Which FERC is the best FERC?".


06:02 - Discuss elements of FERC’s FY22-26 Strategic Plan

15:01 - New merch idea

15:12 - Benefits of Transmission Regionalization

24:28 - Governance and the incremental approach to market expansion

27:58 - “I think it’s inevitable”

31:46 - Outro Game: Which FERC is the best FERC?

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!


Season 4 Finale: Listener Mailbag05 Aug 202201:33:30

Paul Dockery, Jason Fordney, Abigail Sawyer, and Dan Catchpole field listener submitted questions from all types of energy enthusiasts. Plus, we have a Bluey Inspired intermission game with the Honorable Katie Mapes, Matt Schroettnig, and Jon Hart.

03:12 - Dan Campbell wonders about the DER value proposition for Public Power

13:24 - Dr. Kyri Baker pitches an airline idea for electric utilities

27:13 - Travis Kavulla has a contracting question

34:46 - Mary Wienke wants to know how we think about new technology development

44:51 - Robert Cromwell asks a bunch of questions about transmission

57:04 - Intermission Game - energy industry Bluey Scholars on character parallels

1:20:40 - TL;DR segment called “Just a Text”

1:31:04 - New Merch: “Objectively Enthusiastic”

We hope you enjoyed the Fourth Season. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts, like us! Share the link to merch on shopify. And podcast links on Apple Podcast and Spotify. Subscribe on here so you don’t miss Season 5 or any bonus content in between.

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Electric Utility Recruiting, pt. 8: Bear Prairie21 Jul 202200:12:16

Bear Prairie, the General Manager of Idaho Falls Power, is the last interview in our Electric Utility Recruiting series! In this 8th and final episode Bear reminds Humaira, Brian, and Paul that public power is a movement, and encourages all of us to spread the message throughout or communities.

Idaho Falls Power is a municipal electric utility that has served the city of Idaho Falls, Idaho since 1900. The utility owns and operates five hydropower plants that deliver about one-third of the city’s electricity needs. In addition to the electric utility they offer high-speed, affordable, internet capability for homes and businesses.

Electric Utility Recruiting video series

Attracting a new workforce into electric utility professions is going to be one of the key challenges of the next 20 years, and electric utility enthusiasts need to build up recruiting skills to meet the challenge. So Public Power Underground took the opportunity, while it was recording on location at the opening reception for NWPPA’s Annual Meeting in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, to pull aside executives from across the region and quiz them on their best recruiting pitches to attract new folks to electric utility professions.

We were honored to be joined by John Hairston, Mark Johnson, Sarah Giomi, Scott Corwin, Scott Simms, Scott Coe, Scott Rhees, Sarah Edmonds, Marc Farmer, Crystal Ball, and Bear Prairie. We hope you found value in our video series and got some insights into messages that can work to recruit new professionals to the electric utility workforce.

You can find our merch on shopify. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to share this with any friends you have that are electric utility enthusiasts like us!

Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

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