Explore every episode of the podcast People vs Algorithms
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| The Art of Modern Persuasion & The Manosphere | 15 Nov 2024 | 01:00:18 | |
The election in many ways confirmed what many had suspected: the information space has superceded and subsumed the traditional media world. Traditional media is now just one node, and perhaps more alarmingly its influence – and ability to persuade – has drastically declined. We talk in this episode about the implications of this shift, particularly with the spotlight now on what’s being called the manosphere, a chaotic loose confederation of podcasters and YouTubers who have seemingly broken through to be a key node of persuasion for young men. Plus: Is CNN fixable?
| |||
| Winners and Losers | 08 Nov 2024 | 01:08:44 | |
We run through the implications of the return of Donald Trump to the presidency after an election that saw the mainstream news media making way for new power brokers in unusual guises. The podcast election proved to be real – and a harbinger of changes to come as the Information Space subsumes the Fourth Estate.
| |||
| Founder Mode | 05 Sep 2024 | 01:00:07 | |
Founders can force change that managers (call them operators) can’t, at least as efficiently. Plus: AI land grab update, Gannett’s commerce play goes away, and the Sicilian tonnara and summer books.
| |||
| Transitional Times | 05 Nov 2022 | 00:50:14 | |
We live in a period of transitions. These periods are only clear in retrospect, of course. But much of the world is moving from an old era to a new era that is… unsettled. We don’t fully know, for instance, what the post-pandemic era, the new normal or whatever, will actually look like because we’re not there yet. So we exist in this uncomfortable in-between state. This week, Troy and Brian discuss what in-between state, as the consumer tech industry and advertising industries start to decouple. The publishing industry is already in the midst of a transition from the pageview and scale era to, well, something new, which in my view will end up being smaller and more meaningful. As always, we welcome your feedback. My email is bmorrissey@gmail.com. Thank you to Jay Sparks of PodHelp.us for editing this podcast. The theme music was created by Alex Schleifer of Universal Entities. | |||
| Catastrophism and media | 27 Oct 2022 | 00:42:51 | |
This week we discuss what's making everyone feel so pessimistic. Plus Lex, Ye, the Coffee Lady, TikTok and rebranding Jesus. Brian's intro: "This is our ninth episode of this show. We started out with a rough idea of what it would be, and we'll continue to evolve it as we go. One big help to us as we think through how to improve is to get your feedback. This week we're talking about catastrophic. I was a history major and I still love reading history. Part of that is because there are patterns that exist in history. The old saying is that history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. Mark Twain probably said that, and even if he didn't, he'd get credit for it on Twitter. Now, reading history helps you put what's happening around you, and it always seems like you're living through particularly chaotic and challenging times in some perspective, and I often feel. Though what is now called the discourse is unhelpfully catastrophic? Yes, I know. There's war in Europe. Hundreds are dying every day of Covid still. We have political instability and retrograde forces. The economy is overheated and heading into perilous territory. Climate change is moving from uh, cause to a possible extinction event. I could go on in short, it is not a good time if you are naturally inclined to anxiety. Yet this catastrophic warranted in areas like climate change for sure is likely counterproductive in the long run. You just need to go back to Cassandra. She warned of impeding doom so much through her prophecies that when she warned of a real impending disaster, nobody believed her. We run that risk in our fragmented and tribalized media culture where it's popular to throw around terms like late capitalism and hellscape. Now ignoring problems is in the answer, but perhaps a bit of humility is, after all, none of us has all the answers to life's riddles." Links: | |||
| Is AI coming for your job? | 21 Oct 2022 | 00:44:35 | |
This week, we are talking about the future of work, but not the way it is usually discussed these days. Instead of focusing on the how of work, we examine the what of work in an age of AI. Each day brings new advances in generative AI tools, showing a clear path to how technology will alter the nature of creation in profound ways. We also discuss how the coming AI boom will differ from the dot-com and Web 2.0 booms, which happened when people largely still saw technology advancements as hopeful progress, not threats. Finally, we give early impressions of Semafor, the new global news brand launched this week. | |||
| Zuck's metaverse, AI art, the future of work | 14 Oct 2022 | 00:37:08 | |
Big topic this week. Troy and Brian discuss AR/VR, AI art, and the many other ways humans are being turned into cyborgs. Troy's got a contrarian take on Meta's metaverse ambitions. Brian's got some stories about the good old days of Second Life. It's a good one. Links: | |||
| Ephemeral media | 10 Oct 2022 | 00:24:40 | |
This week we tackle everything from the fate of Twitter under Elon Musk; how you build brands in a media environment dictated by flow; and why in many ways we’re all cheaters to a degree as we augment our abilities with the help of technology. Links: | |||
| WTF is a media company now? | 01 Oct 2022 | 00:39:53 | |
We are in a strange time for the media business. There is a consensus that having a loyal audience has never been more valuable. You regularly hear people saying that every company, at some level, will be a media business in the future. And yet, being a media business is more challenging than ever, at least for quote unquote traditional media businesses. This week, Troy and Brian discuss just what makes a media business, and how it is completely different than what came before. It’s more about understanding digital culture, it’s more personality driven, and it is very often not about the quest for eyeballs to show ads, or even to sell subscriptions. Links: | |||
| RIP Long Tail | 24 Sep 2022 | 00:30:52 | |
When media becomes more niche, institutional brands suffer. What used to be thought of as the long tail has now become a thick tail. Individual creators are poised to replace these niche brands as media and culture fragment. Plus: Is Google's stranglehold on search finally waning? Links: | |||
| Is media better now? | 20 Sep 2022 | 00:32:55 | |
Today, Brian and Troy discuss whether media is better or not today? It's definitely different and there's some interesting stuff done in personal and niche media. Also, more Mr Beast burger talk, good podcasts, and Prince. Show Links: More by the hosts: | |||
| Mr Beast Burgers, Shein, MAGA Brands | 10 Sep 2022 | 00:42:41 | |
Today Brian and Troy discuss media, products, and how they come together. Lots of talk of fast food, fast fashion, and fast takes on todays media landscape. Links: | |||
| Pilot - Apple, Facebook, NFT Communities, Quiet Quitting | 31 Aug 2022 | 00:28:02 | |
In this inaugural episode Brian and Troy discuss who's the biggest asshole, Apple or Facebook? Also, is quiet quitting a thing and if so, is it bad? Plus, Game of Thrones, The Six Million Dollar Man, and watching ads in Saskatchewan. Links: | |||
| The Recalibration to Normal | 22 Aug 2024 | 01:03:16 | |
This is shaping up to be a TikTok election where relatability is at a premium. The successful rollout of the Harris-Walz ticket is moving authenticity from loudly telling the truths others dare not to something softer and more familiar. Plus: the recalibration of remote work, AI backlash and the difficulty of deciding level of spending on content as the weight of many publisher models shifts to indirect monetization paths.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| The Olympics and the Future of TV | 15 Aug 2024 | 00:43:23 | |
This week, we discuss conversations vs interviews, why social networking has been replaced by algorithmic content, YouTube’s pivotal role in the emerging media space, and why the Olympics were a great media product.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| Monopolies and Memes | 08 Aug 2024 | 01:02:10 | |
A federal judge has ruled Google a monopoly for locking up distribution with Apple. We discuss the percent and likely impact. Also, memes as the media format of the moment, as they become how big events like the Olympics and presidential election become participatory. Meanwhile, YouTube is becoming modern TV.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| The Future of Search | 01 Aug 2024 | 00:48:00 | |
OpenAI is readying a new search engine, Meta is pushing further into search with Llama, Perplexity is cutting deals with publishers. This week, we look to what the future of search looks like. Plus: why Nike ended up in Wall Street’s doghouse, why Tucker Carlson is a podcast star, and why Pulp Fiction still works.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| The Dark Side of Performance | 25 Jul 2024 | 01:11:59 | |
This week, we’re joined by Joe Marchese, operating and build partner at Human Ventures and veteran media exec. We discuss why the obsession with performance marketing has created incentives for many intermediaries to focus on giving the appearance of being responsible for a sale rather than actually contributing to the sale, and how that’s led to short-term approaches that skips the basics of building lasting brands. Plus: What the meting of Kamala Harris says about the direction of news and political campaigns, why Netflix points to a shrinking TV ad market and the perils of operating content and commerce businesses as part of one company.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| The Network is the Media | 18 Jul 2024 | 01:10:04 | |
The assassination attempt on Donald Trump was a stress test for the Information Space, and a reminder of just how much the media has changed. You had mainstream news outlets jockeying with individuals holding forth with a collection of expertise, conspiracies, jokes, memes and partisan potshots. Some of it was informative, some of it was hilarious, some of it was infuriating, and much of it was… entertaining? We unpack yet another crazy plot twist and look forward to what it means as the media business girds for what looks very likely to be a return to power of Donald Trump and an ascendent political movement that’s to a large degree successfully vanquished the packaged news media.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| Rules of The Information Space | 11 Jul 2024 | 01:00:02 | |
The tidal wave of crap is a reality in the Information Space. This week, we discuss the rules of winning in the Information Space, including why it helps to get into fights, present as authoritative and authentic, and above all else to be willing to be shameless.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| "Embrace The Chaos" | 04 Jul 2024 | 00:51:10 | |
In this July 4th episode, Alex, Brian and Troy chat about whether life will ever get back to 'normal,' Threads vs. X, gamer saints and AI dogs.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| Banana In the Smoothie | 27 Jun 2024 | 00:49:22 | |
Troy and Brian discuss the realist mood in Cannes, the key to good brand events, why hotels need a good playlist and Perplexity serving as an AI boogeyman.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| Complex’s Next Chapter | 01 Nov 2024 | 01:22:44 | |
Complex is a digital media survivor. It has lived many lives, including as a magazine, a dot-com, an ad network, Go90 (RIP) provider, YouTube showrunner, events organizer, hot sauce merchant, neglected BuzzFeed brand, and now in its latest iteration as a commerce engine. Complex President Moksha Fitzgibbons joins the show to discuss his return to Complex, where he was an integral part of the founding team going back to its Marc Ecko days, and how the youth culture brand is betting on combining its reach and engagement with the live shopping platform of NTWRK, which bought Complex for $108 million in February. Moksha discusses how the brand plans to focus increasingly on driving commerce and far less on selling advertising. Plus: Brian and Troy discuss the news industry’s current meltdown at the prospect of Donald Trump returning to the White House.
| |||
| War on Friction | 13 Jun 2024 | 00:58:14 | |
Apple has entered the AI fray with a compelling view of using it to remove friction that gets in the way of people want to get things done. The issue arises for those who create that friction by serving as intermediaries.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| Compression | 06 Jun 2024 | 00:57:42 | |
Technology acts as a compressor. AI is the latest pressure point. This week, we look at compression in software development, marketing and publishing. We then go into the difficult challenge of change management at the Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| Everyone is Hallucinating | 30 May 2024 | 00:53:33 | |
In this episode Brian, Troy, and Alex talk about AI hallucinations, and how they mirror human misperceptions. Troy believes the open web and traditional media will still hold value, while Alex thinks AI and platforms like Google and social media will take over. They also touch on the future of ad-supported AI services and SEO, Vivek Ramaswamy’s anti-BuzzFeed campaign and a genius idea about electing presidents.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| AI Time Machine | 23 May 2024 | 01:08:41 | |
What do tech and media look like in five years? Plus: Sam Altman as slippery character and AI comes to search and devices.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| Maybe the AI Hype is Real | 16 May 2024 | 00:57:25 | |
Brian, Alex, and Troy get into the new AI updates from OpenAI and Google. They unpack how these big changes might shake up industries like media and advertising, and what that means for our daily tech interactions.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| Transforming Time with Jess Sibley | 09 May 2024 | 01:05:12 | |
Jess Sibley, CEO of Time, joins Brian and Troy to discuss adapting Time to today’s digital challenges. Jess shares her strategies for navigating algorithm changes and AI, shifting Time’s focus from consumer to business-oriented models, and the implications for digital content and monetization.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| Can the “Fediverse” Save Us? | 02 May 2024 | 01:09:10 | |
Brian, Troy, and Alex discuss the commercialization of the internet and the impact of AI on media. They explore big media-tech partnerships, the evolving role of AI in content distribution, and the potential benefits and challenges AI brings to our digital lives.
Topics:
| |||
| Omnicom's Jonathan Nelson on Agencies & AI | 25 Apr 2024 | 01:14:25 | |
Omnicom digital chief Jonathan Nelson joins the show to discuss why ad agencies, forever under threat, will adapt to AI. We go into Omnicom's purchase of Flywheel Digital, a software company for digital commerce -- a further sign that the next phase of what we used to call the internet will be defined by commerce rather than advertising.
Topics:
| |||
| Sex, AI and Advertising | 18 Apr 2024 | 01:01:36 | |
In this episode Alex, Brian and Troy dive into topics like how AI is changing advertising, the ways tech meets human needs, and the big shifts society might see because of tech. They chat about everything from AI taking over creative jobs to why we still need a human touch in things like art.
Topics:
| |||
| The Power Play | 11 Apr 2024 | 01:06:22 | |
In this episode Brian, Troy, and Alex dive into AI mishaps in Teslas, muse over BuzzFeed's AI pivot, and ponder the future of creativity in tech. They chat about navigating power in the digital age, laugh at media's latest shenanigans, and champion the underdog entrepreneurs shaking things up.
Topics:
| |||
| The New Media Consensus | 25 Oct 2024 | 00:53:37 | |
There’s a new consensus about the media business that is emerging. The past is not coming back, that much is for certain. The challenges are well known, and the bright spots — and they exist — tend to be smaller and harder to scale.
| |||
| Shifting Tides in the Media Business with Axios’s Sara Fischer | 04 Apr 2024 | 00:59:32 | |
With Alex still on vacation, Axios senior media reporter Sara Fischer joins Troy and Brian to break down the current state of the media business, including why TikTok is winning, the death of aggregation as a competitive advantage, why social media is a major reason women’s sports is one of the hottest segments, The New York Times as an extensible model and the future of print magazines as marketing pieces.
Topics:
| |||
| The Business of Influence with Emily Sundberg | 28 Mar 2024 | 01:11:45 | |
Emily, Brian and Troy delve into the complex world of influencers and celebrities as they navigate public scrutiny and fame in the digital age. They explore the societal impact of extensive phone use and the rise of influencers creating their own brands.
Topics:
| |||
| Algorithmic Sameness with Kyle Chayka | 21 Mar 2024 | 01:11:37 | |
In this episode of 'People vs. Algorithms,' hosts Brian Morrissey, Troy Young, and Alex Schleifer engage in a wide-ranging discussion on how algorithms shape our cultural landscape, the future of AI in content creation, and the consequences of a digitally dominated world. They share insights from the Game Developer Conference about the optimism among independent studios and discuss the ramifications of algorithmic sameness across media. The episode features a detailed conversation with Kyle Chayka, a writer at the New Yorker and author of 'Filterworld,' centering on how algorithms are flattening culture and what it means for creators and consumers alike.
Topics:
| |||
| Platform Shifts | 14 Mar 2024 | 01:17:45 | |
As Alex says, the ground is shifting more and faster than it has in some time in the tech world, which usually means gaping craters are opened to swallow up media companies. We discuss the Reddit IPO, X apparently pivoting to video – we recorded this prior to Don Lemmon announcing he wouldn’t be launching his show on X after an apparently disastrous interview with Elon Musk pissed off Musk, go figure – and the effort to ban TikTok. We also have a guest this week. Tony Stubblebine joined us to discuss where Medium fits in the information space. We talked to Tony about how Medium aims to be the place for expert content, why journalism is apparently expensive to produce because journalists have to learn about the stuff they cover, and the frequent misalignment of incentives in the media business, particularly ones reliant on advertising. Submit a question or comment for the show here: https://memo.fm/pva/
Topics:
| |||
| Change at CNN and Google | 07 Mar 2024 | 01:22:56 | |
This week, we discuss how to turn the ship at two very different companies facing different challenges: CNN and Google. At CNN, former New York Times CEO Mark Thompson is looking to reinvent the still very profitable broadcaster into a more nimble, digitally focused operation as its viewership and cultural importance fade. Google is facing its biggest threat yet in the form of AI and signs with Gemini AI image search that there might just be something to those complaints about a “woke culture.” Plus: nostalgia for websites, invisible paywalls and Substack’s next chapter.
Topics:
| |||
| Survivors | 29 Feb 2024 | 01:05:52 | |
This week, we're joined by Puck fashion correspondent Lauren Sherman, who gives her view on how to build a career in journalism during what's billed as an "extinction event." Hint: persistence plays a big part. Plus: Troy gets nostalgic about Vice.
Topics:
| |||
| DDM's Neil Vogel on Navigating Change | 22 Feb 2024 | 01:13:01 | |
Dotdash Meredith CEO Neil Vogel joins the show to discuss how a publisher reliant on search traffic is back in growth mode, the future of the affiliate business, the impact of generative AI on traffic-dependent publishing businesses, why performance comes before premium in advertising strategies and that time Prince played the Webby Awards.
Topics:
| |||
| The New Internet | 15 Feb 2024 | 01:01:19 | |
The arrival of AI means the paradigm of searching for information and entertainment will give way to instant delivery. This week, we discuss the implications for the media ecosystem.
Skip to topic:
| |||
| Blending Realities with Rafat Ali | 08 Feb 2024 | 01:11:55 | |
In this episode Alex, Brian, and Troy, with guest Rafat Ali, discuss the future of technology, focusing on the Apple Vision Pro's impact on work, personal life, and media consumption. They explore its potential to revolutionize how we interact with digital content and the broader implications for traditional media and AI in content creation.
Skip to topics:
| |||
| Game Over | 01 Feb 2024 | 00:59:46 | |
With an era of digital media ending in chaos, we look ahead to the challenges media companies face in fixing a product that in most instances is far behind the times.
| |||
| The End of Text | 18 Oct 2024 | 01:10:03 | |
Mass media’s extinction event has come first for text content. Text is increasingly being "pushed down the stack" and commoditized due to AI's ability to generate, manipulate, and reformat text content. This shift is forcing media companies that primarily deal in text to adapt or risk becoming obsolete. While text isn't disappearing entirely, its role is changing. It's becoming more of an input for other forms of media rather than the primary output. Meanwhile, other parts of media are gaining in influence. This will turn out to be the podcast election, as Kamala Harris prepares to make her closing case to… Joe Rogan while continuing to snub mass media like Time and the New York Times. We also discuss the power of Fortnite, which points to a future of media where content is a means to an ends. In the case of Fortnite, that ends is a combination of a place to hang out, a hub for commercial events like virtual concerts, a competitive environment premised on participation rather than inert consumption, and a communication medium. Plus: Bill Gates is apparently a good product.
| |||
| The Gravity of Platforms | 25 Jan 2024 | 00:54:23 | |
Layoffs at The Los Angeles Times, the end of the road for Pitchfork, and an uncertain future for Sports Illustrated illustrate how digital media is architected to collapse the middle of the media business, leaving a precious few scaled players and many scrappy outfits.
| |||
| CES, Ackman’s War, News App Fails | 18 Jan 2024 | 01:06:40 | |
This week we talk CES, the ongoing silliness of the Bill Ackman-Business Insider feud, and why news aggregation apps are the obvious solution in search of a (monetizable) problem.
| |||
| Hit Pieces, Fairness, Drugs & VR | 11 Jan 2024 | 00:57:56 | |
This week, we dig into the latest front into the so-called hit piece. Last week, Business Insider published a pair of stories that dug into the academic record of Neri Oxman, a former MIT professor. Oxman happens to be the wife of Bill Ackman, a powerful activist investor who has been on a campaign against the leaders of top universities, including Harvard's Claudine Gay, who resigned a week ago after plagiarism accusations. The Wall Street Journal meanwhile continued its scrutiny of Elon Musk with a piece that looked into his drug use and whether it has negatively impacted his stewardship of his companies and the requirements of federal law since Starlink is a government contractor. The pieces raise the question of what a fair target for accountability journalism, and whether drug use is the issue or behavior exhibited during drug use (or without drugs of any kind, outside the intoxicant of ego). Finally, we consider the Apple Vision Pro and the prospect of people on planes with it strapped to their faces.
| |||
| New Year, New Optimism | 04 Jan 2024 | 01:12:26 | |
The New Year is maybe the perfect holiday. It’s celebrated by just about every culture and creed. And in a time of great division, we sorta come together around the idea of a new year meaning a new start. And we probably need that. This week, we look at reasons for hope, what lies ahead for AI, the coming legal and regulatory battles with Big Tech, and why it's probably safer to be an electrician.
| |||
| The New SERP, the New Syndication | 21 Dec 2023 | 00:58:26 | |
Troy and Brian go over some of the lessons of 2023 and look ahead to 2024, starting with the end of the long era of dominance of the search engine results page and the dawn of a new SERP and promise of a new syndication paradigm that's reminiscent of the portal era.
| |||