Welcome to the People and Projects Podcast, where we provide interviews and insights to help you lead people and deliver projects. Since 2009, this show is brought to you by speaker, author, and executive coach Andy Kaufman. If you're looking for insights on project management, leadership, and how AI influences both of those, you've come to the right place! And if you hold a project management certification, you can even earn free PDUs for listening!
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PPP 525 | 39% Fired and Still Reinventing, with author John Tarnoff
Wednesday, October 21, 2026 • Duration 56:12
Summary
In this episode, Andy talks with John Tarnoff, an executive career transition coach, TEDx speaker, and founder of the Mid-Career Lab. After 35 years in Hollywood as an agent, studio executive, and film producer, John found himself starting over at 50 when his tech startup collapsed. He likes to say he's been fired 39% of the time, and he built his second act around helping experienced professionals reinvent their careers.
John and Andy discuss why losing a job is an event rather than a failure, and how to talk about it with honesty and a sense of humor in your next interview. You'll hear the difference between a network and a community, how to make networking feel less transactional, and why every conversation, including the job interview, is a networking event. They also explore claiming a niche while staying adaptable, quieting the inner voice of self-directed ageism, and using AI in your job search without sounding like everyone else.
If you're looking for practical, hopeful insights on navigating a mid-career transition, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites
"It's always a kick in the gut."
"Job loss is right up there with major losses like death and divorce."
"Losing a job isn't a failure. It is an event, and it is potentially a lesson."
"Your network is everyone in your Rolodex, virtual or real. They will be the ones who will stand by and watch you fail."
"A community is a subset. They understand you, identify with you, they're rooting for you, they will chip in and help you succeed."
"Your resume, which is your LinkedIn experience section, is your bio."
"You want to use that About section as a call to conversation."
"Every conversation, at the end of the day, is a networking event."
"So people hire people, they don't hire skills."
"Very often your superpower is something that you don't even understand that you do."
"Polish in an interview can sometimes work against you."
"There's always an opportunity to turn your life around."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
02:26 Start of Interview
02:33 Shifting Focus from Projects to People
06:15 The Story We Tell Ourselves After Losing a Job
10:50 Getting Fired Is an Event, Not a Failure
12:46 The Difference Between a Network and a Community
16:44 Making Networking Feel Less Transactional
21:03 Every Conversation Is a Networking Event
23:11 People Hire People, Not Skills
24:03 Claiming a Niche While Staying T-Shaped
27:03 How John Discovered His Superpower
30:44 Signs You Haven't Reconciled Your Past
34:14 Blaming, Justifying, and Taking Responsibility
37:40 Ageism and the Inner Voice That Says You're Slowing Down
41:22 Reinvention Is a Mindset, Not a Number
42:35 Using AI Without Flattening Your Voice
45:53 The Mid-Career Lab
48:03 Helping Kids Think About Identity, Setbacks, and Reinvention
49:50 Sampling Life Like a Buffet
50:30 End of Interview
51:11 Andy Comments After the Interview
55:02 Outtakes
Learn More
You can learn more about John and his work at MidCareerLab.com. You can also connect with him on LinkedIn, and while you're there, check out how he uses his About section.
For more learning on this topic, check out:
Episode 261 with David Epstein. His book Range came up several times in this conversation about generalists, specialists, and the value of sampling.
Episode 318 with John Stepper. It's a great follow-up to this episode, with practical ideas on building your network and personal brand.
Episode 310 with Jeff Gothelf about how to make yourself forever employable by building the well before you're thirsty.
Episode 374 with Catherine Kaputa, who shares lessons on personal branding and making a big change across industries.
Chat with PMeLa
You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.
Join Us for LEAD52
I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!
Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
Talent Triangle: Business Acumen
Topics: Career Transition, Reinvention, Job Loss, Networking, Community, Personal Branding, LinkedIn, Interviewing, Ageism, Artificial Intelligence, Mid-Career, Leadership
PPP 524 | Why More Discipline May Not Be the Answer, with 100 Days of Rejection expert Jia Jiang
Wednesday, October 7, 2026 • Duration 47:52
Summary
In this episode, Andy talks with Jia Jiang, bestselling author of Rejection Proof and creator of the 100 Days of Rejection experiment, about his new book, Easy Discipline. Growing up in Beijing, Jia was taught the value of chi ku, or "eating bitterness," the idea that the more pain you can tolerate, the more you can achieve. The problem? He was terrible at it. Over time, he discovered that his best work came when he was having the most fun.
Andy and Jia explore what easy discipline does and doesn't mean, why action goals can work better than outcome goals, and how stepping into a character, like a consultant instead of a salesperson, can change your results. They also discuss how project leaders can build a momentum loop early, how a single one-action goal can help turn around a struggling project, why some efforts work best as time-boxed sprints, and how to tell normal resistance from work that simply doesn't fit who you are. Jia closes with stories of how he and his wife apply easy discipline as parents.
If you're looking for a more sustainable way to stay consistent without constantly fighting yourself, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites
"It literally translates into English as eating bitterness.... The idea is the more bitterness, the more pain you can tolerate, the higher achievement you can go to."
"If work ethic is the only thing that matters, the best factory workers will be the richest people in the world, right?"
"It's really the inner drive that takes us to go a long way."
"I did programming to achieve a goal, to achieve some sort of success. He did programming for fun."
"The things I didn't like to do? I failed miserably. For the things I like to do, I was doing them so well."
"If you can tap into the 'play' part of yourself, the enjoyment part, that's where you are at your best, even at work."
"Having a deadline, having a finish line is sometimes magical."
"The key for me as a parent is this: How do I enjoy being with them more?"
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
Learn More Chat with PMeLa Join Us for LEAD52
PPP 523 | The New PMP® Exam: What Project Leaders Need to Know Now, with PMI VP Kelly Heuer
Wednesday, September 30, 2026 • Duration 53:04
Summary
In this episode, Andy talks with Dr. Kelly Heuer, Vice President of Learning at PMI, where she leads global learning strategy across professional standards, training, certification, and career-long development. Kelly takes us behind the scenes of the updated PMP® exam and explains what changed in project work that made this refresh necessary.
You'll hear why the business environment domain now makes up nearly a quarter of the exam, how new multi-question case scenarios assess judgment instead of memorization, and why broader recognition of associate and vocational degrees matters to her as a first-generation college graduate. Kelly and Andy also explore what a strategic project leader actually looks like, why judgment may be the new job security in the age of AI, and practical ways early-career professionals can build judgment as entry-level rungs disappear. Kelly shares how she learned to say the thing, the difference between perishable and enduring skills, and the two capabilities she most wants to grow in her kids.
If you're preparing for the PMP, already certified, or looking to sharpen your judgment as a project leader in a world shaped by AI, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites
"You needed a project manager. And instead you got me, and I have no idea what I'm doing."
"But you know, I am a firm believer that, you know, the credential associated with your name, the name of your university, whether you went to university or not, is nowhere near an adequate representation of your actual potential or your actual skill."
"You don't have three facts. You have an entire story, right?"
"Having a consistent measurement system where you're looking at value accumulation, value realization throughout the course of a project through project close is a really important differentiator."
"And it's about thinking three steps ahead and three rings out like in concentric circles of influence."
"But one of the ways you can combat that is being specific about what you mean and what it looks like, right?"
"But, you know, the way I think of it is AI is just, like, the latest test of professional judgment."
"But I want to make one more point as well, which is that learning by osmosis was never a good professional development strategy anyway."
Chapters Learn More Chat with PMeLa Pass the PMP Exam Join Us for LEAD52
PPP 522 | Are You Removing the Wrong Friction?, with Maggie Sass and Ross Blankenship
Saturday, September 5, 2026 • Duration 58:13
Summary
In this episode, Andy sits down with Dr. Maggie Sass and Dr. Ross Blankenship, consulting psychologists and authors of Friction: How Tension, Emotion and Change Reveal Better Leaders. Project managers are trained to remove blockers, and much of the time that's exactly right. But Maggie and Ross draw a distinction that's easy to miss: some friction is simply waste, and some friction is information.
You'll hear how the unwritten rules we learned about emotion early in life still shape how we lead, what starts happening in a room before an irritated leader says a word, and the four words Ross thinks can rescue a team meeting. We also dig into why burnout is often a system design problem instead of a self-care problem, what a project leader can actually do about structural friction when they can't redesign the whole system, and which human capabilities are worth protecting as AI makes more of our work faster and easier.
If you're looking for a more practical way to read the tension on your team and use what it's telling you, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites
"But I think the unwritten rule at home was that talking about emotions and living through them safely were two distinct things."
"Humans need things, and sometimes they don't even know what they need until you are together in a space or in a call."
"You don't ask questions. You don't bring up creative ideas because you have no idea how that's really gonna go given what you're watching a leader do."
"But I think the older I've gotten, the more convinced I am that our job as adults inside organizations is not necessarily to be perfect, but it's to repair as fast as possible when you make a mistake, and that's the thing that doesn't happen when people are scared."
"I've found that these four words can save your team (and marriage): 'I'm experiencing some friction'."
"It helps me remember that between the stimulus and the response, I have space, and the more that I give myself, the better."
"There is no real way to separate task and relationship because the humans are doing the tasks."
"Being the hero may allow you to solve massive problems or create really compelling products in the short term, but it's not a sustainable way to run a business because businesses are run by people and people have limits."
Chapters Learn More Chat with PMeLa Join Us for LEAD52
PPP 521 | Neuroscience-Based Principles to Resolve Conflicts, with Dr. Jeremy Pollack
Friday, August 28, 2026 • Duration 53:24
Summary
In this episode, Andy sits down with Dr. Jeremy Pollack, a social-organizational psychologist and founder of Pollack Peacebuilding Systems, author of Wired for Peace: Using 7 Neuroscience-Based Principles to Resolve Conflicts. Jeremy looks at conflict through the lens of the brain and nervous system, which helps explain why disagreements escalate so quickly and why the fixes we reach for often make things worse.
Andy and Jeremy talk about why de-escalation has to come before problem-solving, since solutions and stress do not mix. Jeremy walks us through his Sapien Model of six basic psychological needs, giving us a far more useful lens than labeling a stakeholder difficult, defensive, or resistant. You will hear how memory and prediction shape the way we read the person in front of us, what a team learns when its leader consistently avoids conflict, and why changing our experience of conflict requires new experiences, not just new beliefs. Jeremy also shares how this shows up at home, in marriage and parenting.
If you're looking for a practical, evidence-based way to handle the conflicts that come with leading, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites
"The most fruitful relationships from what I've seen at work, at home, et cetera, are those that can weather storms without the real fear of abandonment."
"That was pretty interesting to me to see how much of the science is telling us that, like, our brain is mostly a predictive machine."
"Anytime we're in an escalated or emotionally charged state, there's something going on in our brains, usually subconsciously, that's tracking a threat or an impediment to our basic needs."
"It's de-escalate first because solutions and stress just don't mix."
"What I'm feeling right now is not a result of what the person's saying. It's a result of the way my body is responding."
"I call it an experiential thumbprint. It's completely unique to you and no one else has your nervous system, and you don't have anyone else's."
"If we have a negative experience with someone and we go into a place of fear or pain or anger or something like that, the way that we see them going forward can change very, very quickly, and it's a lot harder to get us to unsee that."
Chapters Learn More Chat with PMeLa Join Us for LEAD52
PPP 520 | Are Smarter AI Tools Making Us Less Capable?, with LEGO® Serious Play® co-creator Johan Roos
Friday, August 21, 2026 • Duration 56:13
Summary
In this episode, Andy sits down with Johan Roos, professor and executive advisor at Hult International Business School, Executive Director of the Peter Drucker Society Europe, and co-inventor of the LEGO® Serious Play® method. Johan is the author of Human Magic: Leading with Wisdom in an Age of Algorithms, and he has spent decades studying how people think, create, decide, and lead together.
Andy and Johan explore the two paths Johan calls erosion and amplification, starting with a question Andy has been wrestling with as he hands more of his manual driving over to Tesla's self-driving. You'll hear what an eroding project manager actually looks like day-to-day, why practical wisdom matters when the analytically optimal answer is not the wisest one, and how AI feeds one kind of curiosity, the laser, while starving another, the radar. Johan also explains the difference between becoming an AI concierge and practicing what he calls professional citizenship, and he shares what parents can do to help their kids hold onto the messy, hands-on curiosity that machines cannot supply.
If you're looking for a thoughtful, hopeful way to use AI without surrendering your judgment, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites
"Almost every good idea I've had was not in front of the screen."
"I know what to do, but I've stopped understanding why.".... The eroding project management can no longer explain the why."
"So in a sense, they argue that the better the system, the stronger pull down the erosion curve."
"So the message is really when the machines are taking over more and more of some of these subtle, very valuable capabilities we have, we have to climb the value creation ladder."
"So a complexity is exactly where our wisdom gets exposed."
"So every metric said fantastic, but nobody asked why, and is this right?"
"If AI can write a document that is important to you, the document was never where the value lived."
"But we just have to be careful to not sort of delegate too much of our brain power and sort of erode our jelly bean."
"When you lean back and you haven't struggled enough, you may be super smart and, and the best brilliant individual in the world, but, you know, friction is good."
Chapters Learn More Chat with PMeLa Join Us for LEAD52
PPP 519 | Overcoming the Inner Propaganda That Sabotages Projects and Teams, with Owen Fitzpatrick
Friday, August 14, 2026 • Duration 01:10:41
Summary
In this episode, Andy sits down with Owen Fitzpatrick, a psychologist, speaker, and author of Inner Propaganda: Leading Hearts and Minds through Turbulent Times. Owen has spent close to 30 years studying how beliefs form and change, interviewing people everywhere from North Korea to Rwanda to Afghanistan. His thesis is unsettling: our brains do not simply take in facts and reach objective conclusions. They build a story we then experience as reality.
Owen and Andy work through what that means on real projects. You'll hear how a warning from a colleague can quietly harden into a conviction about a teammate, and how Bayesian reasoning gives you a way out. You'll learn Owen's five types of truth, how to tell courageous conviction from dangerous denial, and what leaders can actually make stable when they cannot promise a stable outcome. Owen also explains why pushing harder for buy-in is often the very reason people resist, and how an antifragile identity helps teams face uncertainty like AI without denial or panic.
If you're looking for a fresh way to think about belief, influence, and leading through turbulent times, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites
"We all live in that world where we think we're the one person that isn't the victim of propaganda, and my point or my thesis is we're all victims of our own inner propaganda."
"We're not necessarily just convinced by others. We convince ourselves."
"Because I think when we say, 'I'm no good at something,' we lock ourselves into it."
"Well, if you're not great at communicating with people, get great."
"Most of the time our beliefs just create a sort of a reality for us, and that reality can help us or harm us."
"So our brains are prediction machines."
"Whenever we talk about belief, believing in your ability to succeed in the future is critical if you want to succeed in the future, but that doesn't mean you deny the present."
"It, it's not that we think negatively, it's we believe negatively, and we see the world through those lenses."
"So I think we want to be able to challenge our beliefs and build a bit more and get more comfortable with uncertainty away from the table, but when we're at the table with our team, that's when we bring the certainty."
Chapters Learn More Chat with PMeLa Join Us for LEAD52
PPP 518 | Why Better AI Prompts Aren't Enough for Better Decisions, with author Cheryl Strauss Einhorn
Friday, August 7, 2026 • Duration 53:41
Summary
In this episode, Andy welcomes Cheryl Strauss Einhorn, founder and CEO of the decision sciences company Decisive and author of The Human Edge: Smarter Decisions in the Age of AI. Cheryl has spent decades helping people make better decisions, and her message here is a simple one: AI can gather, summarize, and compare, but it can't know what matters most unless we do the thinking first.
Andy and Cheryl talk about why "AI first" can quietly turn into AI only, and why a poor answer from AI is actually useful feedback about your own thinking. Cheryl explains why separating the what of a decision from the why can change the path forward, shares her vision of success question, and walks through how human bias and AI bias reinforce each other. You'll also hear a practical way to use AI personas to pressure test your thinking before a big stakeholder conversation, plus what parents can do to help kids strengthen their decision-making muscles instead of letting them atrophy.
If you're looking for practical ways to make smarter decisions in the age of AI, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites
"AI is about patterns, but we're about purpose."
"We need to be the chief deciders in our own life."
"We need to make sure that we actually have a way to push back and check the veracity of what it's giving us because it's a known liar."
"And so the authenticity of human interaction is what actually builds trust, strengthens relationships, and really gives us a lot of the connections that are important to us in our home life and our work life."
"You don't need to have a perfect prompt for AI."
"AI is going to give you other people's answers."
"'Knowledge is power' isn't as true now. It's what you are able to do with the knowledge, and it's why you want to collect the knowledge in the first place."
"I almost never would accept AI's first answer."
"We tend to have evolving hypotheses unless we really build an audit trail of our thinking."
"So in the world of medicine, a fever tells you something is wrong, but it tells you nothing about what is wrong or where to look."
Chapters Learn More Chat with PMeLa Pass the PMP Exam Join Us for LEAD52
PPP 517 | The Hidden Costs of Avoiding Difficult Conversations (And What To Do Instead), with Gustavo Razzetti
Thursday, July 30, 2026 • Duration 47:08
Summary
In this episode, Andy sits down with Gustavo Razzetti, culture consultant and author of Forward Talk. Gustavo makes a case that surprises a lot of leaders: fear is only part of why people stay quiet at work. The bigger driver is what he calls the pointlessness paradox, the belief that speaking up will not change anything.
Andy and Gustavo talk about conversational debt and how it compounds over time, why silence is so often mistaken for alignment, and the subtle signs that a team is drifting into avoidance, blame, or groupthink. Gustavo unpacks the difference between backward talk and forward talk, offering practical ways to turn an objection into a question that opens possibilities. You'll also hear about conversational agency, why the second person who speaks up matters more than the first, and how the CPR approach of courage, perspective, and responsibility plays out under pressure. Along the way, Andy shares stories from Alfred Sloan at GM and Alan Mulally at Ford, and Gustavo shares a memorable one about his son and a crashed car.
If you're looking for a more confident way to raise the issues your team keeps avoiding, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites
"However, fear only explains part of why people don't speak up. At some point, people feel nothing will change."
"I like to say that agreement happens in the room, alignment happens after the meeting."
"When you become the team leader, the number of people giving you feedback reduces, and when you become a senior executive, no one gives you feedback. Or if they do, it's not honest."
"But what you want is people to challenge your perspective, to show you what you're missing, to see the things you're not seeing or maybe you stop seeing."
"The problem is when we put being accepted, being respected over the outcome."
"So forward talk is when can we frame that objection into a question."
"So you're not being difficult. You're being realistic, but trying to find a solution, and you're giving the other person options."
"Most people don't regret the difficult conversations they had. What we regret are the ones that we never had."
Chapters Learn More Chat with PMeLa Join Us for LEAD52
PPP 516 | Becoming the Project Manager, with Stuart Taylor
Monday, July 27, 2026 • Duration 52:40
Summary
In this episode, Andy welcomes back his friend Stuart Taylor, a PMO leader and PMI PMO Awards judge, author of Becoming the Project Manager. Most of us didn't grow up dreaming of leading projects. We drifted into the role, and then discovered it's far less about plans and methodologies than it is about people, pressure, and learning to lead while you yourself still feel unsure.
Stuart shares the story behind the book, including the university project where he publicly chastised a teammate and the response from his dad that changed how he understood leadership. He and Andy dig into the real value and limits of PM certifications, why AI can help you communicate but can't replace the human part, the stakeholder questions younger Stuart was afraid to ask, what his mentor Wayne taught him about proximity and follow-through, and why a new sponsor has to be sold on your project rather than assumed into it. You'll also hear the 30-minute CV rule and the trouble it once caused him.
If you're looking for an honest, human look at what it actually takes to become the project manager, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites
"Well, now that you've reprimanded that person, you do realize you've got to go and pick them back up again?"
"So going out into the world with this as my toolkit, and I thought it was a toolkit, but actually it turned out to be more like a life raft because I ended up clinging onto it without reasoning at an early point in my career."
"There's an awful lot that falls between the processes, and that's what the early part of the book is really exploring."
"I don't believe there's great value in repeatedly recycling the same learning over and over and over again. I think there's much greater value in taking that energy and going to learn something about your industry, the, actual industry that you're working in."
"And also, I should add, you will have greater value to them by being there too, because you're the interesting change person in the room then, rather than one of another 200 change people walking around all talking about the same methodologies."
"So be the person who is not avoiding hearing about challenges, but actively seeking them out, and cataloging them, and managing them."
Chapters Learn More Chat with PMeLa Join Us for LEAD52
01:58 Start of Interview
02:08 Seen as Lazy and Hopeless: Learning to "Eat Bitterness"
04:53 Grind Culture and the Myth of Hard Work Alone
06:21 Elon Musk and the Power of Inner Drive
08:00 What Easy Discipline Doesn't Mean
09:11 Chasing the Bill Gates Dream
11:42 Fired and Rehired by the Same Boss
13:26 Applying Easy Discipline to Losing Weight
16:05 Outcome Goals vs. Action Goals
17:48 What Jia Still Hasn't Made Enjoyable
20:28 Getting Into Character
22:36 Accessing a Real Part of Yourself at Work
23:43 Building a Momentum Loop Early in a Project
26:05 Delivering Early and Finding Stakeholder Support
Episode 522 with Ross Blankenship and Maggie Sass. Their book Friction shares related ideas about reducing the friction in what we do.
Episode 377 with Cassie Holmes. She's a happiness researcher who shares evidence-based approaches to live and work with more meaning and joy.
Episode 242 with James Clear about his bestselling book, Atomic Habits, which has a lot in common with turning hard things into habits.
You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.
I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!
Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
"So in here, in this case, I actually think AI is part of the solution to the problem that AI caused, which is one of the great things about AI, even the freely available tools, is it's kind of like an inexhaustible interlocutor."
"Find ways to lead and manage small projects, even if you're just organizing trash collection in your neighborhood."
"I think there's also just a lot of observational learning that doesn't have to hurt at all."
"But you can do a lot of saying the thing, challenging directly, asking the question if you pair it with a lot of signals of interpersonal warmth, which can be things like smiling and eye contact."
"It's so much less relevant to actually wordsmith your prompt now. It's much more about context engineering."
"So in my opinion, the most enduring human skill of all is a capability for continuous learning, staying curious, staying fresh, staying open and permeable to new information, and strategic about how you build those skills so you're not wasting time doing it."
"The robots are overconfident."
00:00 Introduction
02:00 Start of Interview
02:12 From Philosophy to Project Management
04:55 What Changed in Project Work to Drive the PMP Exam Update
07:52 Business Acumen and the Shift Toward Agile and Hybrid
09:22 Recognizing Associate Degrees and Technical Education
11:22 Counting Project Experience After Career Gaps
13:29 Inside the New Multi-Question Case Scenarios
16:47 Exam Prep Advice That No Longer Helps
18:46 Closing the Gap Between the Real World and the Exam
20:49 What a Strategic Project Leader Does Differently
25:11 Avoiding Bias When Assessing Strategic Thinking
26:17 Judgment as the New Job Security in the Age of AI
29:15 How Early Career Professionals Can Build Judgment
34:51 Small Projects, Observational Learning, and Near Peer Learning
Episode 319 with Sierra Hampton Simmons. Sierra is the former head of certification at PMI, and many of the ideas we discussed still apply to the refreshed PMP exam.
Episode 513 with Fred Marshall. It's not about certification, but it's all about thriving in an age of AI, a major theme in today's episode.
Episode 509 with Steve Kahle. Steve shares practical ideas for improving your ability to recall what you've learned.
You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.
If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.
I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!
Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
Talent Triangle: Business Acumen
Topics: PMP Certification, PMP Exam, Project Management, Business Acumen, Judgment, Strategic Thinking, Systems Thinking, Artificial Intelligence, Career Development, Early Career Professionals, Continuous Learning, Communication
Episode 397 with Dr. Julia DiGangi. It's a discussion about emotions that has stuck with Andy for years, and it's a great supplement to today's conversation.
Episode 394 with Joshua Freedman. Joshua is a leading voice on emotional intelligence, making this a really good follow-up to Friction.
Episode 446 with Adam Galinsky. Helpful insights on how to inspire those around us instead of sucking the life out of them.
You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.
I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!
Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
Talent Triangle: Power Skills
Topics: Leadership, Project Management, Emotional Intelligence, Friction, Conflict, Psychological Safety, Burnout, Team Culture, Artificial Intelligence, Parenting, Self-Awareness, Communication
"We access memories in edit mode. And so after we retrieve it, and when we write it back, it's not always quite the same thing, and that's always made me question not is that memory correct as much as is it completely correct."
"All conflict is an opportunity for learning."
"The threat of abandonment is the big thing to really watch for when we're having arguments."
00:00 Introduction
02:27 Start of Interview
02:35 The Family Cultures That Shaped How Jeremy Sees Conflict
05:51 In Awe of How Much We Still Do Not Know About the Brain
07:49 The Brain as a Prediction Machine
09:55 The Salad Lady and What Sits Underneath Defensive Behavior
12:45 An Introduction to the Sapien Model
16:19 Why a Framework Beats a Label
16:58 De-escalate First: Catching Yourself Before It Is Too Late
20:54 When Our De-escalation Attempts Backfire
22:43 Empathy Without Having to Agree
25:03 How Memory Distorts the Person in Front of Us
27:46 We Do Not Access Memory as Read-Only
30:45 Joe, the Conflict-Avoidant CEO, and What a Team Learns
33:03 Taking Inventory When Nobody Pushes Back
34:53 New Experiences of Conflict, Not Just New Beliefs
38:08 Tell Me More: Creating a Gap Between Stimulus and Response
40:31 Peace Starts in Small Ways
42:49 Interrupting the Pavlovian Pattern
44:19 Bringing It Home: Marriage, Parenting, and Attachment
Episode 371 with Amanda Ripley. Amanda is an amazing writer, and her book High Conflict is a great follow-up to today's discussion.
Episode 148 with Dan Shapiro. The title of his book Negotiating the Nonnegotiable sounds like it's about negotiating, but it's really about navigating the conflicts that suck the life out of us.
Episode 61 with Mike Roberto. That discussion was over 15 years ago, and there are ideas from it that Andy still uses to this day.
You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.
I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!
Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
"Are you able to argue for your case without holding on to the AI-produced slide?"
"Protect the wandering curiosity, unstructured exploration, questions with no immediate payoff, the freedom to follow something nowhere in particular."
00:00 Introduction
02:35 Start of Interview
02:44 Growing Up Inquisitive and the Power of "Because"
06:04 Self-Driving Cars, GPS, and the Erosion of Our Abilities
10:31 Becoming an Active Supervisor Instead of a Passive Passenger
13:55 What an Eroding Project Manager Looks Like Day to Day
18:52 When the Optimal Answer Is Not the Wisest One
22:03 Intuition, Gut Feel, and When Something Does Not Smell Right
25:54 The Laser and the Radar: Two Kinds of Curiosity
27:52 Creating Independently Before Consulting AI
30:44 What Happens in the AI-Free Time
35:18 Is It Intuition or Is It Ego?
37:48 Turning the Models Loose on His Own Book
40:00 Asking AI to Be Brutally Honest
41:02 AI Concierge Versus Professional Citizenship
45:51 Advice for Parents Raising Kids in the Age of AI
49:26 Staying Human: Theater, Walks, and Getting Your Hands Dirty
50:44 End of Interview
51:15 Andy Comments After the Interview
54:46 Outtakes
You can learn more about Johan and his work at humanmagic.one.
For more learning on this topic, check out:
Episode 500 with Steve Brown. Steve is a former Google DeepMind futurist, and he has a unique perspective on where we've been and where we're going with AI.
Episode 479 with Matt Mong. Matt shares his take on the AI skills we need to stay relevant in the years to come.
Episode 463 with Faisal Hoque. Faisal helps us go beyond the fear and the hype around AI to a helpful way to think about the human-AI relationship.
You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.
I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!
Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
Talent Triangle: Business Acumen
Topics: Leadership, Project Management, Artificial Intelligence, Practical Wisdom, Curiosity, Critical Thinking, Creativity, Decision Making, Judgment, Professional Development, Human Skills, Parenting
You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.
I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!
Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
"If it's 99% accurate in its conclusion, but its underlying data is the wrong data set, you've got the wrong answer."
"I would say the more that I've studied these cognitive biases, these mental shortcuts, the more I realize that we see the world through a dirty windshield."
"Our brains are muscles, and just like we exercise to strengthen our muscles, if we don't exercise, they atrophy."
00:00 Introduction
02:00 Start of Interview
02:12 Growing Up Surrounded by Questions
04:30 What Leaders Should Watch Out for in "AI First"
07:07 When AI Confidently Makes Things Up
09:04 How AI First Turns into AI Only
09:20 Why Polished Doesn't Mean Authentic
11:59 A Prompting Problem or a Problem Definition Problem?
14:37 The Vision of Success Question
15:45 Why a Bad Answer Is Useful Feedback
19:06 Separating the What from the Why
20:32 Research: More Information Isn't Better Judgment
24:35 Progressive Prompting and Never Accepting the First Answer
25:18 Fabricated Quotes and the Trouble with Attribution
26:50 Documenting Assumptions and Building an Audit Trail
29:25 Committing to Your Own Thinking
32:29 How Human Bias and AI Bias Reinforce Each Other
34:55 Knowing About Biases Doesn't Make You Immune
36:51 Using AI Personas to Challenge Your Thinking
40:20 AI and Stakeholder Management
42:42 Helping Kids Become Better Decision-Makers
44:25 End of Interview
44:51 Andy Comments After the Interview
48:13 Outtakes
You can learn more about Cheryl and her work at AREAMethod.com.
For more learning on this topic, check out:
Episode 460 with Joe Sutherland. It's an interesting look at the intersection of AI, data, and decision-making, and a great follow-up to this discussion.
Episode 381 with Jim Loehr. One of Andy's favorite conversations about decision-making, from a remarkable figure in the human performance world.
Episode 99 with Mike Roberto. A conversation about his book Why Great Leaders Don't Take Yes for an Answer, recorded long before ChatGPT showed up, and still insightful today.
You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.
If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.
I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!
Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
"There's research that shows that the person who speaks up first is not the most important person. The second person who reciprocates is actually the one that creates the change. That moment when two people are talking about the same issue, it gives permission to the other people to jump in and also participate."
"Staying silent also backfires, not only because it hurts the company, but if you're seeing the problem and you're staying silent, you become part of the problem."
"It's not the absence of conflict that makes us a good team. It's that we can do it and we can work through it."
00:00 Introduction
02:05 Start of Interview
02:17 Growing Up in a Family of Nine in Argentina
05:18 Learning New Ways Beyond Your Family Culture
06:16 Why Fear Is Not the Whole Story
09:06 Why Waiting for Perfect Psychological Safety Backfires
10:37 Explaining the Pointlessness Paradox
11:37 Mistaking Silence for Alignment
13:35 Alfred Sloan and the Value of Disagreement
15:32 Subtle Signs You Are Drifting Into Groupthink
17:58 Backward Talk vs. Forward Talk
19:43 The Way to the Sun Is Through the Storm
21:05 How Organizations Quietly Reward Avoidance
23:08 When Speaking Up Gets You Labeled
25:09 Alan Mulaly, Ford, and the Power of the Second Voice
27:39 Alignment Debt, Belonging Debt, and Collaboration Debt
Episode 284 with Peter Boghossian. He wrote a book about how to have impossible conversations, and it's full of ideas Andy still uses almost every week.
Episode 148 with Daniel Shapiro. Dan is the author of Negotiating the Nonnegotiable, an insightful guide to dealing with difficult conversations and influence situations.
Episode 371 with Amanda Ripley. Her book High Conflict offers practical guidance on navigating even the most challenging of conflicts in an empowering way.
You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.
I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!
Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
Talent Triangle: Power Skills
Topics: Difficult Conversations, Conversational Debt, Psychological Safety, Groupthink, Team Culture, Leadership, Project Management, Conflict, Alignment, Accountability, Communication, Speaking Up
"Something else I've learned: they don't like you tiptoeing around them."
"But if anybody's having to go into the office more frequently now, go and spend some of that time sitting with the people whose world you are changing."
"But if your own leader, the person who's supposed to be championing you in the organization just doesn't get it, then you've got an impossible task on your hands."
"When your sponsor goes or leaves and somebody else comes in and replaces them, don't just assume that, that because they've now been told they're gonna have to be the sponsor of your project, that they understand it and they can see the value in it."
"Every project that you work on, the benefits, they are your accomplishments."
"There is no point in being loyal to organizations. Be loyal to people."
00:00 Introduction
01:56 Start of Interview
02:15 Growing Up in Walsall and Learning Leadership from Dad
07:15 Drifting Into Project Management
09:06 When the Methodology Becomes a Life Raft
10:14 Why the Playbook That Worked Elsewhere Fails Here
11:49 Will AI Create PMs Who Look Prepared but Aren't?
13:37 Using AI to Understand a Difficult Stakeholder
15:31 The Value and Limits of PM Certifications
17:44 The Talent Triangle and Learning Your Industry
19:34 Stakeholders Are People, Not Org Charts
20:46 Curiosity and Asking Better Questions
21:54 Stop Tiptoeing: Busy Stakeholders Want the Point
22:55 What Wayne the Mentor Taught Stuart to Notice
25:47 Go Sit With Operations
28:19 The Power of Proximity
29:33 Sponsorship and Why PMOs Collapse
34:18 Earning Support and Managing Up
35:07 When a New Sponsor Takes Over
37:08 Keep Your CV 30 Minutes From Ready
39:39 When the 30-Minute Rule Got Stuart in Trouble
41:28 Project Lessons That Carried Into Family Life
Episode 474, which is an earlier and pretty candid conversation with Stuart about LinkedIn, careers, and AI.
Episode 429 with Bill Dow. Bill and Andy talk about the signs that your PMO is going to fail, and you don't have to be in a Project Management Office to get value out of that discussion.
Episode 441 with Michaela Flick. A discussion on the human side of project management that resonates with much of what you hear from Stuart.
You can chat directly with PMeLa, ;the podcast's AI person, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.
I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!
Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
Talent Triangle: Business Acumen
Topics: Project Management, Leadership, Stakeholder Management, Sponsorship, PMO, Mentoring, Career Development, Certifications, Artificial Intelligence, Communication, Influence, Professional Growth
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