Explore every episode of the podcast Passle CMO Series Podcast

Boutique firms are continually finding new ways to stand out, tackle significant cases, and make a lasting impact. 

In today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Eugene McCormick welcomes Anne Kunkel, the Chief Marketing Officer at Redgrave. Anne joins Eugene to discuss how boutique firms consistently go above and beyond, sharing her insights on building an agile team, navigating new technologies, AI, and regulations, and successfully driving strategy through to action. 

Anne and Eugene explore:

• Anne’s background and unique career journey to Redgrave
• The approach Redgrave takes to position their unique style in the legal market
• Anne’s practical tips for balancing her day-to-day responsibilities
• The key qualities and talents that Anne prioritizes when building her team
• Key elements that are reshaping Redgrave’s brand and growth development
• Top priorities for navigating changes that are reshaping legal marketing
• Advice for CMOs aiming to make an impact in boutique firms

Fractional marketing is on the rise, enabling firms to tap into top-tier expertise without the full-time cost.

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins sits down with leading fractional marketer, Helen Cox.  Helen breaks down the common mistakes that appear in marketing and BD, the role a fractional CMO plays and how firms can truly find value in leveraging fractional leadership without the full-time cost. 

Helen is a Marketing and Business development consultant and the founder of Helen Cox Marketing. She has successfully worked with numerous firms, helping them re-strategise their marketing and BD plans, and show internal teams how to use AI and technology to work smarter and more effectively.

Helen and Charles discuss:

• Helen’s career journey to becoming a fractional marketer in professional services
• Helen’s definition of the term “Fractional” and how roles like this fit into the professional services industry
• When firms can get the most value from a fractional marketer
• The common mistakes that appear in legal marketing and business development
• Helen’s successful moments supporting firms and what that looks like
• Key advice for marketers going fractional 
• The approaches firms can take to bringing in a fractional leader successfully

Law firms continue to struggle with getting their lawyers to cross-sell effectively, leaving significant revenue untapped. The good news is that with the right strategic shift, firms can close the gap between their professionals and cross-selling success.

In this episode of the CMO Series, Yasmin Zand is joined by Threshold Advisors Managing Partner, Dr. Karen Kahn, to talk about how firms can do this effectively. Karen is a psychologist, certified coach, and the author of Daunting to Doable. 

In this episode, Karen breaks down how law firms can turn relationships into revenue by making cross-selling simple, authentic, and lawyer-focused. She shares the mindset shifts, behaviors, and tech tools that help CMOs and leaders move from broad strategies to personalized, practical business development that actually sticks.

Karen and Yasmin dive into:

• Karen’s career journey in psychology and the pivotal moment she decided to work with law firms
• The core reasons why cross-selling is central to firms’ growth and the barriers stopping lawyers from cross-selling
• The shift in Business Development from macro to micro and ways firms can better support their professionals
• The key mindset lawyers need to adopt in order to grow in confidence and successfully cross-sell
• The role of technology and AI in transforming lawyers’ habits into effective cross-selling behaviors
• Advice for CMOs and marketing leaders wanting to close the cross-selling gap and get their lawyers cross-selling effectively

Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion has become a critical framework for organisations striving to create more supportive environments for both current and prospective employees. As the competition for talent intensifies, firms are recognising the importance of addressing gaps in representation.

Today's guest on CMO Series REPRESENTS is someone well-versed in driving meaningful change and is here to discuss why building a culture of belonging matters. Olivia Backon is joined by Paul Modley, AMS’s Managing Director of Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging. 

Paul’s journey has been powerful and inspiring, taking him from his working-class roots in Wales to the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games, and now leading the charge at AMS where he has created a global Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging Centre of Excellence to ensure that existing and emerging talent get the support, resources and recognition they deserve. 

Paul and Olivia explore:

• The influence of Paul’s upbringing in shaping his commitment to social mobility throughout his career
• How AMS has advanced its DEIB initiatives in response to global pivotal moments 
• The strategies AMS is implementing to elevate disability inclusion and neurodiversity within workplace conversations
• How AMS supports clients in navigating their own DEIB journeys while maintaining clarity and consistency in its internal strategy
• What genuine buy-in for DEIB looks like in practice
• Practical advice for organisations seeking to strengthen and embed a more impactful DEIB strategy

In today’s legal market, mid-size firms are proving they can punch well above their weight, and the secret often lies in bold, strategic marketing leadership. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins speaks with Courtney Beauzile, Head of Marketing, Business Development & Communications at Robins Kaplan. After moving from an AMLaw 100 firm to an AMLaw 200 mid-size firm, Courtney has shown how the right approach can fuel growth, elevate digital presence, and transform the impact of marketing.

Two years into her role, Courtney shares her playbook for building strong, diverse teams that bring creativity and innovation to every campaign. By harnessing a mix of personalities and skills, she demonstrates how mid-size firms can develop strategies that not only compete with, but often outpace, the largest players.

Charles and Courtney dive into:

• Courtney’s journey to Robins Kaplan
• How Courtney has tailored her approaches and leadership style in her current role
• The early success Courtney and her team achieved
• Key qualities and structures which helped her team support the firms goals
• The impact of having a diverse team 
• Future projects that will driving the firm in the legal landscape
• Advice for marketing, BD and communication leaders wanting to have a big impact at a midsize firm

In a time when business leaders are navigating heightened political division, evolving workplace expectations, and the urgent call for inclusivity, understanding how to lead with purpose has never been more critical.

On this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand is joined by Gina Rubel, CEO and General Counsel at Furia Rubel Communications. Their conversation explores the deep commitment to advocacy, DEI, and ethical relationship-building that has shaped Gina’s leadership and the culture at Furia Rubel.

Together, they delve into the forces behind Gina’s passion, including her work with the Rule of Law Coalition, and examine how leaders can create truly safe and inclusive spaces in today’s legal industry.

Gina and Yasmin dive into:

• The steps CMOs and firm leaders must take to communicate effectively, internally and externally, amid political polarization

• The story behind the Rule of Law Coalition and its significance in today’s climate

• Practical advice for legal marketers striving to lead with authenticity and purpose

Creating impactful thought leadership content in a high-pressure, client-driven industry is no small feat, especially when time is tight. But done right, it can unlock career-defining opportunities, from keynote invitations to game-changing client wins.

In this episode of CMO Series Rainmakers, Yasmin Zand sits down with Carl Kennedy, Co-chair of Financial Markets and Regulation at Katten, to unpack how he’s built a standout reputation by consistently delivering timely, authentic thought leadership. 

Carl shares the mindset and strategy behind his thought leadership success, including how he balances content creation with client demands and how that effort has led to major speaking engagements, high-profile matters, and a strong personal brand in a crowded market.

Carl and Yasmin discuss:

• The moment Carl realised thought leadership was worth the investment
• How Carl ensures thought leadership resonates without sounding like everyone else
• What “good” looks like when it comes to expert-led content, and examples of success
• Practical tips for maintaining momentum (even when you’re busy)
• How to embed a culture of thought leadership across your firm

As major infrastructure initiatives like CRM become more essential, many firms find themselves struggling to get projects off the ground. From securing stakeholder buy-in to selecting the right technology and navigating complex security requirements, launching a CRM can feel overwhelming. But with the right strategic approach, it doesn’t have to be.

In today’s episode, Charles Cousins is joined by Julie Mortimer, Director of Marketing at Mills & Reeve, for a practical deep dive into how to launch a CRM project successfully. Julie shares expert insights on overcoming common challenges, choosing the right vendors, and securing lasting buy-in from stakeholders.

In this episode, Julie and Charles discuss:

• The essential first steps CMOs should take when launching a CRM, especially in the legal sector
• How to build long-term buy-in for a complex and costly project
• Key strategic and technical considerations in the early stages
• The value of integrating AI into your CRM stack to power marketing and business development
• Advice for selecting the right vendors and technologies for your firm
• The top dos and don'ts for avoiding common CRM pitfalls

On Thursday, June 5th, we hosted CMO Series Live 2025 in New York. Throughout the day, we witnessed sessions led by senior marketing leaders and managing partners. Today, we are revisiting one of the standout sessions of the day, which explored the way AI is reshaping the landscape for legal marketing and business development. 

Moderated by Sam Page, we heard from:

• Jen Leonard, Founder & Principal at Creative Lawyers, 
• Darth Vaughn, Associate General Counsel & Managing Director, Policy and Legal Operations at Ford Motor Company
• Bridget Mary McCormack, President and CEO at American Arbitration Association
• Jim Metzger, Chief Financial Officer at Reed Smith

Jen, Darth, Bridget, and Jim addressed how CMOs can adapt to recognize and meet their clients' needs and expectations, and how to make internal strategic investments in having AI-driven legal services.

This special episode covers: 

• How AI is changing the conversations that they are having in their organizations
• The strategic steps CMOs should be taking to revolutionize business development and marketing models as AI comes into play
• Examples of specific AI deployments 
• The current positioning of the wider market for adopting and using AI, especially for clients of law firms  
• The methods to train and develop associates on the use of AI, whilst focusing on critical thinking
• The approaches that CMOs can take to having conversations with their CFOs on rationalizing the cost of implementing AI

Content has become a powerful driver of visibility and growth in the legal industry. But with so many approaches to creating and delivering content, how can firms foster a culture that not only encourages contribution but also supports business development and client engagement?

On this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, James Barclay is joined by Richard Meneghello, Chief Content Officer at Fisher Phillips, to explore what it takes to get lawyers writing, and why close collaboration with marketing and BD teams is essential to making it work.

Richard also shares his perspective on the role of technology, particularly AI, in helping lawyers write more effectively and deliver content that resonates. Plus, he offers thoughtful advice on how firms can embrace AI while protecting their brand integrity and maintaining trust.

James and Richard cover:

• Richard’s career journey from Partner to Chief Content Officer and what that transition looked like
• The role of Chief Content Officer and what the role looks like day-to-day
• How Richard collaborates across the teams while leading an independent function within the firm
• Examples where specific content campaigns have directly contributed to the firm's client growth or business development
• Strategies to get lawyers writing and writing well and the steps taken to build a culture of content
• The ways AI and technology are being used to help train lawyers in writing content and pushing out insights faster
• Advice for CMOs looking to elevate their content and separate themselves from other firms

Cross-selling is becoming an essential part of how law firms can boost their revenue and create long-lasting relationships with their clients. Yet, CMOs and BD leaders have recognized that their lawyers are struggling to cross-sell effectively, leaving them wondering how they can get their lawyers over the cross-selling barriers. The key to that is building real human connection. 

On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charlie Knight is joined by Jason Levin, Founder of Ready Set Launch and author of Relationships to Infinity, former brand marketer of Unilever, and a business development coach to law firms across the US. Jason shares his insights on how CMOs can help their lawyers be more authentic and in-tune with their clients to help unlock unlimited opportunities to cross-sell and establish long-lasting relationships.

Charlie and Jason cover: 

• The types of clients Jason takes on and the core work Jason does with law firms
• The expectations that general counsels have for law firms and the reason why lawyers fall short in meeting their expectations
• The approaches lawyers can take to build relationships and how CMOs can make it easier for their lawyers
• The barriers holding law firms back from cross-selling and what practical steps CMOs can take to help their lawyers unlock their cross-selling potential
• The ways CMOs can help their lawyers shift from the ‘not enough time’ mindset to a proactive mindset
• Practical examples of small changes that lead to significant results, along with key takeaways CMOs should apply
• Advice for CMOs on building authentic relationships to unlock the full potential of cross-selling within their firms

In this special edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we revisit one of the standout sessions from last week’s CMO Series Live in New York. This episode explores how managing partners and senior leaders are using thought leadership to strengthen client relationships, drive business development, and leave a lasting impact in the digital space.

This session was moderated by our very own Alistair Bone, who was joined on stage by:

• Jeff Greenbaum, Managing Partner of Frankfurt Kurnit Klein & Selz
• Simon Malko, Managing Partner of Morris, Manning & Martin
• Meredith Williams-Range, Chief Legal Operating Officer at Gibson Dunn
• Carl Kennedy, Partner and Co-Chair, Financial Markets and Regulation at Katten

Jeff, Simon, Meredith, and Carl shared how effectively leveraging thought leadership has fueled their firm’s growth, elevated their personal brands, and empowered their lawyers to become thought leaders themselves.

This special episode covers: 

• How thought leadership fits into today's legal landscape and why it's significant
• The challenges to expect when getting your lawyers to create their own thought leadership
• Refreshing approaches to maintaining a dynamic and compelling online presence over the long term  
• Advice for firms that want to build successful thought leadership programs 

AI is quickly being adopted and used to keep firms ahead of the curve, yet many firms struggle to do this effectively and get the most out of AI. However, the key question many firms ask is ‘How do we bring the whole firm along the journey of using AI?’

In today’s re-release episode, Gina Connell, Chief Marketing Officer at B P Collins, discusses the practical and strategic approaches to navigating the journey of AI within a firm. Gina breaks down how she led the charge of the firm’s AI policy, how firms can collaborate and use AI, and how to encourage people across the firm to engage with AI effectively. 

This episode covers: 

• Practical steps to effectively developing and communicating an AI policy
• How to bring the different areas of the firm up to speed on AI and its potential impact on their sectors. 
• What the AI journey looks like and what are the biggest opportunities for AI in legal marketing.
• Advice for marketers looking to stay ahead of the curve with AI in their firm.

For law firms to truly stand out, creativity in storytelling is essential. It’s what humanises the brand and helps build stronger, more meaningful relationships with clients and prospects.

On today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alistair Bone is joined by Laura Klysz, Chief Marketing Officer at Simmons & Simmons, who recently led the firm to a Drum Award nomination for their standout campaign, The Year Ahead 2025.

Laura shares how storytelling has become a powerful foundation of her legal marketing strategy - and how looking beyond the legal sector for inspiration can unlock new levels of creativity and thought leadership.

In this conversation, Laura takes us behind the scenes of The Year Ahead campaign, discussing the concept, the creative process, and the challenges faced along the way, including some surprising results. She also offers a sneak peek at what’s next and how she plans to sustain the momentum.

Laura and Ali explore:

• Her journey to becoming CMO and how it shaped her approach to storytelling
• Why storytelling is central to building a modern legal brand
• What law firms can learn from other industries about creativity and content leadership
• How The Year Ahead campaign was developed, launched, and brought to life with stakeholder buy-in
• The campaign’s internal and external impact - and the unexpected outcomes that followed
• Her strategy for evolving the campaign and keeping it fresh
• Practical advice for CMOs looking to embed storytelling into their marketing efforts

AI and automation are reshaping how professionals engage with their clients and promote their services, but is there any room left for human creativity? 

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins is joined by Nicholas Barrows, Director of Marketing at Trowers & Hamlins, to discuss the evolution of AI, data and creativity in marketing and business development.

Nicholas shares his insights on how AI is transforming the professional industry, the journey of their data-driven campaigns like ‘Rethinking Regeneration’, and how professionals can blend AI, data, and human creativity to promote greater client engagement.

Nicholas and Charles cover: 

• How AI and data have changed the way professionals engage with their clients in marketing and business development, and where human creativity fits into this.
• How to leverage AI and automation to uncover new opportunities and drive business development efforts.
• The ‘Rethinking Regeneration’ campaign, and the roles technology and data-driven client engagement play alongside human creativity.
• The challenges of delivering the ‘Rethinking Regeneration’ campaign and how they were tackled.
• Advice for professionals looking to blend AI with creativity for better client engagement.

Thought leadership is a cornerstone of content marketing in professional services; it showcases your firm’s expertise and strengthens client relationships. The real challenge is uniting lawyers on one platform to centralise and scale thought leadership.

In this episode of CMO Series Digital Masterclass, Will Eke speaks with Chris Yates, Digital Marketing Manager at Bristows, where over 150 authors have published 900+ insights, driving more than 330,000 views.

Chris shares how Bristows has reimagined its approach to thought leadership, brought lawyers on board, and built an internal comms strategy that made it all work.

Will and Chris cover: 

• The platforms and thought leadership strategies Bristows used before Chris joined
• The turning point for Bristows in consolidating the firm's thought leadership platforms
• The steps to managing and streamlining the new strategy and platforms
• How to get lawyers engaged with the new process and the importance of key internal relationships in making the initiative successful
• The strategies used when implementing the adoption of Passle across the firm
• The feedback that has been received from lawyers and partners using Passle and the impact it has had on business development
• The future of the firm's thought leadership strategy
• Advice for getting lawyers on board with a central thought leadership platform 

AI is being leveraged in professional services marketing at a rapid rate, yet there are limited examples of successful adoption. 

In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast re-release series, Tracey Whyte, Director of Business Development and Marketing at Piper Alderman, speaks with Charles Cousins to share practical tips on the applications of AI that she has been using to drive the firm in the market. She also shares the challenges that come with applying AI and how she's navigating them.

Key highlights from this episode include: 

• Tracey’s journey to Piper Alderman
• The early steps to adopting AI
• The use of AI across the marketing and BD functions, and its purpose
• Advice on how to get the most from AI

We're revisiting standout episodes from the CMO Series Podcast exploring the role of AI in reshaping professional services marketing. 

In this second episode of the series, we look back at an unforgettable session from the CMO Series Live held in New York. Joe Green, Chief Innovation Officer, and Monica Rodriguez Kuniyoshi, Chief Marketing Officer of Gunderson Dettmer, took to the stage to discuss integrating generative AI into their team's expertise.

They cover:

• How they are leveraging AI
• The strategic decisions involved when using and implementing generative AI
• How to keep the human voice central to the firm while embracing the power of AI.

We’re revisiting standout episodes of the CMO Series Podcast to explore how AI is reshaping professional services marketing. We’ll hear insights directly from industry leaders on the best approaches to integrating AI into your firm and the efficiencies they are seeing.

In this special episode, we look back at a memorable session from the CMO Series Live held in New York.

Alison Arjoon, the Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Fragomen, and Luke Ferrandino, who was the CMO at Paul Weiss and is now the Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer at Skadden, took to the stage to discuss how AI is ushering in a new era of collaboration within law firms. 

They cover:

• The role of technology and the challenges faced by both traditional and non-traditional law firms
• Strategies for effectively leveraging technology to streamline processes
• How AI contributes to project success and fosters a new way of collaboration 
• The evolving role of AI and its current and future impact

Every law firm strives to achieve year-on-year profitable revenue growth. As the industry continues to grow more competitive, firms are looking at how to drive sustainable, organic growth by focusing on client value delivery.

On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, James Barclay is joined by Wendy Bernero, Founder and Strategic Advisor at Yate Collaborative, who has over 30 years of experience in legal marketing and held Chief roles in firms including Baker McKenzie. Wendy discusses insights on how firms can deliver real value to their clients, the ways to maximise cross-selling and more. 

James and Wendy cover: 

• Wendy’s background in legal marketing and key learnings she's taken into her current role
• The strategies CMOs should implement and stay away from
• The reasons why firms should decide whether they want to be a solution provider or a talent agency
• The framework that Wendy uses to maximise cross-selling and the steps teams should take to make it successful
• The three actions every marketing and BD leader should do to improve their go-to-market strategy

Top-tier client experience is essential for law firms to stand out in a busy market. By prioritising usability and aligning with client needs, firms can showcase expertise, simplify engagement, and build trust, driving inquiries and conversions in a digital-first landscape.

In this episode of CMO Series Digital Masterclass, Charlie Knight is joined by Gareth Osborne, Managing Director at MRM UK, and John Riley, Head of Strategy. Together, they delve into the critical role of client experience, exploring how firms can unlock value by deeply understanding their clients' needs and motivations.

Gareth, John and Charlie Cover:

• The biggest considerations for law firms embarking on a website project, and where most go wrong 
• Guidance on how firms can identify when client experience should be a key focus 
• The "Discover, Define, Deliver" framework and how it helps to understand a firm’s unique challenges and opportunities to shape a website project
• How to assess both digital and human interactions within a firm and ensure these touchpoints are integrated throughout a website overhaul
• How to leverage digital platforms to drive sustainable growth by aligning technology decisions with long-term business goals
• Advice for CMOs who may need to focus on client experience when starting a website project 

In smaller to mid-sized firms, the marketing function can sometimes fall on the shoulders of just one person. 

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alistair Bone talks with not one but two solo marketers - Paige Pierce, Business Development & Marketing Manager at Ray Quinney & Nebeker, and Tiffani Mowry, Marketing and Attorney Recruiting Coordinator at Crowley Fleck. They discuss their insights, secrets and strategies to succeeding as a solo legal marketer.

Alistair, Paige and Tiffani cover:

• What their respective roles entail 
• The strategies and approaches to managing campaigns and initiatives as a solo marketer
• The importance of having full buy-in and the support from the firm's leadership
• The influential networks they lean on for support 
• The challenges of being a solo marketer and how to manage multiple priorities effectively
• Strategies to help manage receiving feedback
• Advice for other solo marketers or those heading up very lean teams

Thought leadership has become an essential strategy for professional services marketers, and it's even more powerful when driven by the experts and lawyers themselves.

In today's episode of CMO Series Rainmakers, Olivia Backon is joined by two of the foremost voices in advertising and marketing law - Brinsley Dresden and Geraint Lloyd-Taylor, Partners and Co-Heads of Advertising & Marketing at Lewis Silkin.

Brinsley and Geraint are renowned for their engaging and insightful thought leadership. With a blend of wit and humour, they tackle key issues in the advertising world, from ASA decisions to new legislation. Through their writing and expertise, they’ve shaped industry conversations and built strong reputations within the legal community and with their clients by strategically leveraging thought leadership to enhance their personal and practice brands.

Brinsley, Geraint and Olivia discuss:

• How Brinsley and Geraint have built their reputations in the advertising and marketing law space, and the moment they realised the power of thought leadership in shaping professional reputations
• How writing and publishing regular insights helps establish authority and credibility in a competitive industry
• How they developed their witty writing style, and why this approach is essential for connecting with clients
• How to integrate thought leadership with other marketing strategies to enhance the client experience and broaden reach
• Examples of how thought leadership content has delivered tangible value to clients and generated new business
• The AdLaw Podcast Brinsley and Geraint host, and how that is contributing to the practice group’s credibility in the advertising law space
• Advice for others looking to build their personal, practice and firm brands through thought leadership

You can catch all the insights from Brinsley, Geraint and the team at Lewis Silkin, here. 

CMO Series Live is back! After a hugely successful sell-out CMO Series Live last year in New York, we have decided to return for a second year running.

This year, CMO Series Live is set to be bigger and better, with another stellar lineup of speakers covering the hottest topics in legal marketing, from AI to cross-selling. 

On today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Natsaha Sandamas joins us to share an exclusive look at what to expect from CMO Series Live 2025.

Natasha and Charlie cover: 

• An overview of what CMO Series Live is and highlights from last year
• This year’s line-up and the agenda
• Why CMO Series Live is a must-attend for Chief Marketing and BD professionals 
• How to register to attend

Creating deep connections with clients can lead to new opportunities for law firms to gain a greater understanding of client goals.

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Ian Ribald, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Ballard Spahr, to discuss how legal teams can benefit hugely from taking a more holistic approach to their marketing and business development efforts. 

Ian and Will cover: 

• What Ian hopes to bring to his role and the surprises he's faced 
• How Ian’s approach to marketing and business development shifted after running previous client programs
• The importance of legal teams seeing clients from multiple perspectives
• Ian’s strategies for keeping everyone on the same page and motivated when taking a new approach, especially when it comes to buy-in
• How Ian encourages his team to understand the pressures of the different areas of the business as a way to build empathy and improve the client experience
• Advice for others looking to take a more holistic approach to legal marking and get their team on board

In our second special episode to mark International Women's Day 2025, we catch up with inspiring women who are paving the way in professional services marketing and business development. They share their top tips for firms looking to accelerate action and promote equality within their organizations.

Our incredible guests discuss the importance of transparent paths to promotion, the significant impact of leading by example, and why creating a safe space for authenticity is crucial to fostering equality in the industry.

A big thanks to all of our guests for their generous contributions to this important conversation:

Amelia Calloway, Director of Marketing and Business Development, Morris Manning & Martin

Amanda Lindley, Director of Business Development, Thompson Coburn

Ashley Horne, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer, Womble Bond Dickinson, US

Bonnelle Martin, Associate Director - Marketing and Brand, Baker Botts

Heather Reid, Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer, Miles & Stockbridge

Kim Lansdown, Director of Strategy and Marketing, Fladgate

Kelby Luther, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer, Allen Matkins

Michelle Powell, Sr. Manager of Marketing and Business Development, Axinn

Rachel Watson, Director of Business Development, Client Development and Campaigns, Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld 

Savannah Kirk, Public Relations and Communications Coordinator, Jones Walker

Stefanie Nastou, Chief Marketing Officer, AMS

To celebrate International Women's Day 2025, we’re proud to present a special two-part edition of CMO Series REPRESENTS, where we spotlight the women at the forefront of driving gender equality in professional services marketing and business development.

We’re privileged to feature insights from influential women who share their personal journeys, the challenges they've faced, and the steps needed to accelerate gender equality in the industry.

In part one, our guests delve into the significance of female representation, the role of authenticity in leadership, and the profound impact women have in shaping change. Through their stories, we explore how women are not only excelling in their roles but also paving the way for future generations.

Thank you to all of our guests for their generous contributions to this conversation:

Emma Sosner, Head of Marketing at Spencer West Jeanne Hammerstrom, Chief Marketing Officer at Benesch Kate Fairweather, Director of Marketing & BD at Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle Lydia Martin, Director of Marketing & BD at Stewarts Margie Hinckley, Chief Marketing Officer Americas at A&O Shearman Mercedes Galindez, Head of Marketing at Slaughter & May Rachel Smith, Director of BD and Marketing at Cripps Laura Ottley, Chief Marketing Officer at Addleshaw Goddard

Stay tuned to hear more in part two of this special series.

In celebration of Black History Month, we’re revisiting powerful conversations with Black professionals in legal marketing to honor their expertise, contributions, and the lasting impact they've made on the industry. 

In this episode of the CMO Series REPRESENTS Podcast, Yasmin Zand chats with Terra Davis, Chief Diversity & Talent Development Officer at Knobbe Martens. Terra joins the series to share her journey, why she started advocating for diversity, equity and inclusion, and the critical role of psychological safety in law firms.

Terra discusses the strategies and programs she is working on to drive change and innovation to create a safe and inclusive workplace where everyone belongs, as well as advice for others looking to promote psychological safety within their firms. 

The world of business development and marketing in law firms is constantly changing as professionals work to adapt to new challenges, integrate technology, and redefine the ways to meet client needs. 

Today on the CMO Series Podcast, James Barclay is joined by Joe Palermo, Chief Operating Officer at Crowell & Moring, and Greg Fleischmann, Director of Client Development at WilmerHale, to discuss the major shifts that are shaping the legal marketing profession for the next few years.

Joe, Greg and James cover: 

• The last 5 years in legal marketing and the biggest shift within the profession
• How the role of marketing is changing in law firms
• The challenges and opportunities of taking on more client-facing roles 
• How the role of CMO will potentially evolve in law firms in the next few years
• The key skills necessary for CMOs to thrive in 2025 and beyond
• How integrating AI tools can enhance client services and operational efficiency in legal marketing
• Advice for law firm leaders looking to adapt and equip their marketing and BD functions in the future

In celebration of Black History Month, we're revisiting impactful conversations with Black professionals in legal marketing to honor their expertise, contributions, and the lasting impact they've had on the industry. 

In this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand sits down Lynnette Espy-Williams, an Equity Partner and the Chief Diversity, Equity & Inclusion Officer at Cozen O'Connor. Lynnette, recognized as one of the Top 10 Most Influential Women in Diversity & Inclusion by The Chief Navigators Magazine, joins the series to share her journey as a diverse lawyer and the transformative experiences that have influenced her career.

The conversation explores the influential role of innovative marketing and mentorship and uncovers Lynnette's invaluable insights and practical advice on how to bring allies together to shape a future where inclusivity not only exists but thrives.

In honor of Black History Month, we’re revisiting meaningful conversations with Black professionals in legal marketing to celebrate their expertise, contributions, and the lasting impact they've made on the industry. We hope that these stories inspire others to embrace change and continue to build a more inclusive and equitable future.

In this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand welcomes a leading role model who is paving the way in professional services marketing by highlighting issues related to color, culture, and leadership in law firms. 

Yasmin chats with Diana Lauritson, Senior Marketing and Business Development Manager at Hogan Lovells, to share her lived experiences, the role race has played in her career and how to raise the next generation of marketing leaders. Diana and Yasmin discuss: 

• How Diana came to her career in legal marketing and her current role at Hogan Lovells
• How being a woman of color impacted the way Diana moved forward as a Legal Marketer
• The pressures related to being one of the few women of color in senior marketing roles in law firms
• Programs that supported Diana and recommendations for the next generation of women of color in legal marketing to find support
• Advice for up-and-comers in the industry

Advertising plays a crucial role in the marketing mix and offers law firms a powerful tool to build stronger, more recognisable brands.

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke speaks with Kim Lansdown, Director of Strategy and Marketing at Fladgate, about how her unique journey from barrister to advertising professional informs her approach to legal marketing. 

Kim shares insights on Fladgate’s standout campaign with The Financial Times, the challenges of driving creative marketing within a law firm, and offers valuable advice for others aiming to leverage advertising strategies to strengthen their legal brands.

Kim and Will explore: 

• Kim’s unconventional career journey, from barrister to advertising and now heading up strategy and marketing at Fladgate
• The main differences she found coming into a law firm compared to working in advertising, and the immediate things Kim wanted to bring in and start working on
• Fladgate’s campaign with The Financial Times, and how Kim used her advertising skills to deliver it effectively 
• How to bring advertising to internal events to promote marketing’s work and vision for the firm
• The key principles or strategies from advertising that law firms could benefit from
• The main challenges to implementing more creative campaigns in law firms and how to overcome them
• Advice for others looking to use advertising strategies to build their law firm brands

To celebrate Black History Month 2025, we’re re-releasing standout insights and expertise shared by Black professionals in the legal space. In this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand sits down with Courtney Carter, Director of DEI at Jenner & Block, to unpack her remarkable journey and the profound impact she's making on her firm. Courtney discusses the firm’s cornerstone DEI initiatives that have proven to develop and advance diverse lawyers, the common missteps and misconceptions that have historically hindered law firms in their DEI journey, as well as practical takeaways for law firm leaders, marketing and business development professionals and clients, alike, to take the industry forward.

What does it really take to become a Rainmaker? Rising to the level of managing partner requires not only legal expertise and experience but, also, the ability to generate revenue and drive the firm’s growth. Building credibility through thought leadership plays a crucial role in this process, creating a direct link between valuable insights and financial success.

In this episode of the CMO Series Rainmakers, Tom Elgar, Co-founder of Passle, is joined by Rohan Massey, Managing Partner at Ropes & Gray in London. Rohan, who leads the firm’s Data, Privacy, and Cybersecurity practice, is nearly a year into his role as Managing Partner. He has built a reputation as a thought leader, leveraging insight-driven content to drive success.

Listen in to explore how thought leadership has become a key component of Rohan’s success, its impact on his career progression, and how he’s professionalised the approach to thought leadership at Ropes & Gray.

Rohan and Tom discuss:

• The moment thought leadership became a key part of Rohan’s strategy for success
• Rohan’s approach to writing thought leadership, and the process he follows
• The importance of building an internal profile versus an external profile on the path to Managing Partner 
• The role of thought leadership in driving revenue generation for a law firm
• How to professionalise thought leadership and weave that culture into the fabric of the firm 
• The importance of ‘finding your voice’ when creating thought leadership and tips to guide your team 
• The one habit that has had the greatest impact on Rohan’s success with thought leadership and how others can adopt it

With podcast listening at a record high, there’s a significant opportunity for law firms to reach their target audience. In episode 166 of the CMO Series Podcast, we dive into the world of podcasting and learn how an effective podcast strategy can support your marketing and business development efforts.

Recorded live in London, Will Eke is joined by Kate Fairweather, Director of Business Development and Marketing at Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle LLP, to discuss the power of podcasts and why law firms should include podcasting in their strategy. 

We explore Curtis’s podcast and how it’s supporting their recruitment efforts with the potential to drive business growth within the firm. We’ll also hear more about Kate’s podcast journey, her award-winning ‘Dogs with Jobs’ series which won the Podcast of the Year 2022, and why she’s championing podcasting in legal marketing. 

Kate and Will cover: 

• Kate’s background in podcasting and broadcasting and what drives her passion
• Why law firms should consider podcasting to reach their market
• The vision and aims of the On Tour with Curtis podcast Kate has managed and hosted 
• The progress of the podcast and the results that Curtis is seeing
• Curtis's podcast strategy and new podcast plans for the future
• Advice to other law firms looking to integrate podcasting into their marketing and business development strategies

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we explore how essential business development is for law firms to build lasting client relationships and how to build a BD-minded firm.

Charles Cousins sits down with Louise Henkel, Director of Business Development and Marketing at Hill Ward Henderson, to discuss the success of their BD training program which Louise has led for the last six years. We’ll explore the impact the BD training program has had both internally and externally, in addition to how Louise has navigated through the challenges she has encountered and the future of BD at Hill Ward Henderson.

Louise and Charles cover:

• Louise’s background prior to working at Hill Ward Henderson and how that shaped her business development approach
• What the BD training program entails and how it has evolved in the last six years
• The importance of proactive business development in legal marketing and how attorneys have come to trust and embrace BD coaching
• The impact the BD training program has had at Hill Ward Henderson, internally and externally, and the success stories of the training program
• The challenges during the early stage of the BD training program and how those were overcome
• The future of BD at Hill Ward Henderson and the initiatives for 2025
• Advice for other BD and marketing leaders looking to implement a successful BD training program

Welcome to the first episode of CMO Series Rainmakers, where we explore how the legal industry’s most influential leaders have leveraged thought leadership to build their brands, drive business growth, and strengthen client relationships.

In each episode, our esteemed guests reveal how they create and harness their unique insights to shape their firms’ success, influence the market, and, ultimately, drive revenue.

In this debut episode, Connor Kinnear sits down with Jeffrey Greenbaum, Managing Partner of Frankfurt Kurnit Klein & Selz, for an insightful conversation recorded live in New York. Jeff shares how his strategic approach to thought leadership helped FKKS’s blog achieve over 720,000 views.

Jeff dives into his strategies for maintaining a consistent and impactful thought leadership presence, how he’s integrated business development into his daily routine, and the successes he’s seen from a well-executed thought leadership strategy.

In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we focus on the evolution of the legal and marketing landscapes and how to successfully use brand identity to drive business development to help firms effectively showcase their lawyers' expertise.

Charles Cousins sits down with Sarah Mitchell, former National Director of Marketing, Communications, and Digital Strategy at a leading Canadian law firm. Sarah shares key insights for how CMOs should prepare for the coming year, and the next 10 years and reviews the last decade in legal marketing.

Sarah and Charles cover:

• The marketing strategies and projects Sarah has delivered over the last 10 years
• The biggest changes in the industry over the last decade, and the ways law firms can be prepared to adapt for the next 10 years
• The evolution of technology and AI and the ways firms can leverage the tools available to differentiate themselves in the market
• The various strategies that will be pertinent moving forward
• The biggest barriers to success for legal marketing for the next 10 years
• Advice for marketing leaders looking to stay ahead of the curve in 2025 and beyond

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we explored the different ways to drive BD success in any market through building meaningful client relationships, and the range of tools and tactics that can be adapted based on the region and market.

Charles Cousins sits down with William McLaughlin, the Director of Marketing at McNees Wallace & Nurick, to discuss his experiences of BD and marketing in Southeast Asia, and how they compare to his work in the US. William shares his key strategies for driving BD success and ways to nurture client relationships across diverse markets.

William and Charles cover:

• William’s experience in Southeast Asia and how it shaped his BD and marketing approaches at McNees
• The differences and similarities between marketing and BD in Southeast Asia and the US 
• How William uses his key marketing and BD strategies from Thailand and adapts them for the US market at McNees
• The process of building meaningful connections and tools that help win business 
• The most effective ways to link internal systems for measurable ROI
• Advice for others looking to drive their BD success

In today's fast-moving digital world, having a well-organized MarTech stack helps marketers streamline their work, use data to create personalized campaigns, and achieve efficient, measurable results across various channels.

In this episode of the CMO Series, Yasmin Zand talks with Jaclyn Braga, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Morse, and Jenny Hills, Marketing Operations Manager at Axinn, about the importance of MarTech for law firms. They discuss key tools and the challenges and opportunities that adopting these technologies opens up.

Jaclyn, Jenny and Yasmin Cover:

• Martech stacks and the tools their teams find most useful
• The roadblocks faced in adopting new tech, and how to overcome them
• How has Martech evolved in the legal industry, and which tools had the biggest impact in smaller mid-size firms
• AI’s role in Martech stack, and its influence on team strategy
• How to advocate for Martech upgrades and get buy-in from leadership
• How to measure success when it comes to Martech strategy
• Advice for others looking to optimize their efforts using Martech

In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we explore the unique challenges and opportunities that arise when bringing outside experience into the role of Chief Marketing Officer - particularly within the legal industry.

Alistair Bone sits down with Brendan Delaney, Chief Brand Experience Officer at BAL, to discuss how his background in brand experience and marketing has shaped his approach to legal marketing. Brendan shares the insights he’s gained from transitioning into the CMO role within a law firm, the challenges he’s encountered along the way, and the innovative strategies he’s used to drive success. 

Brendan and Ali cover: 

• Brendan’s background and his journey to the Chief Brand Experience Officer role at BAL
• How Brendan has leveraged his experience from other industries to innovate within the legal sector
• Examples of fresh ideas Brendan has introduced at BAL and the value they’ve brought to the firm
• The key differences between legal marketing and marketing in other industries
• What law firms should consider when bringing someone from outside the legal industry onto their leadership team
• The benefits of hiring someone with experience outside the legal sector
• Advice for professionals transitioning into senior marketing roles from outside the legal industry

Law firms are an important part of the local communities they serve. In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins is lucky enough to sit down with Erika Galarneau, Marketing and Business Development Manager at Cades Schutte - Hawaii's largest law firm. Together they delve into a specific campaign that uncovers the importance of incorporating local culture into your marketing efforts.

Erika and Charles Cover:

• The role local culture plays in a firm's marketing efforts and why it should be something marketers have on their radar
• Erika’s career journey and how she arrived at her current role
• Example of incorporating local culture into campaigns and initiatives 
• The impact of bringing local culture to that campaign
• Guidelines or points that others should follow to ensure that they are bringing their own local culture into their marketing efforts
• Advice for others who may not have as clear a culture as Hawaii
• Tips for those looking at their current campaigns and thinking about bringing their local culture to them

In this special Thanksgiving edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we take a moment to reflect on the incredible mentors and leaders who have shaped the careers of some of the brightest minds in legal marketing. Our amazing guests share their gratitude for those who’ve guided their journeys, offering valuable insights, lessons, and experiences to inspire the next generation of legal marketing leaders.

At the heart of this episode are the themes of networking and collaboration - our guests emphasize how building and nurturing relationships are key to success. They also discuss the importance of taking ownership of your career, highlighting how this proactive approach can drive growth and open doors.

A huge thank you to all of our wonderful guests for sharing their stories and wisdom:

• Michelle Fountain-Lee - Head of Business Development for the US and Latin America, Herbert Smith Freehills
• Jennifer Stokes - Senior Marketing & Business Development Director, Shipman & Goodwin - Senior Marketing 
• Barbara Bell Malin - Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer, Jackson Walker
• Diana Courson - Chief Marketing Officer, Wiley Rein
• Kate Pearch - Chief Strategy Officer, Morris Manning & Martin
• Malcolm Pobjoy - Executive Director, US Market Management, Osborne Clarke
• Kate Boucher - Chief Business Development Officer, Foley Hoag
• Lisa Cooms -  Director of Marketing and Business Development, Friedman Kaplan
• Brian Colucci - Chief Business Development & Marketing Officer, Kilpatrick
• Gina Carriuolo - Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer, Hinckley Allen

Wishing you all a very happy Thanksgiving.

In this special episode, we’re joined by a group of incredible leaders from the legal marketing industry who reflect on the mentors and pivotal figures that have influenced their careers. 

They share their experiences, offering valuable insights on how embracing bold innovation and building respect and understanding are key to shaping the future of legal marketing.

Featured Guests: 

• John Eix - Director of Business Development and Marketing, Crowe Dunlevy
• Amanda Schneider - Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer, Epstein Becker Green
• William McLaughlin - Director of Marketing, McNees Wallace & Nurick
• Maura Brandt - Crowell & Moring, Chief Marketing Officer
• Erika Galarneau - Marketing and Business Development Manager, Cades Schutte
• Azeema Batchelor - Director of Business Development, Wiley Rein
• Kim Kaine - Marketing & Business Development Manager, Hawley Troxell
• Despina Kartson - Chief Marketing Officer, Baker Hostetler
• Lora Wegman- Marketing and Communications Director, Thompson Coburn
• Norm Rubenstein - Managing Director of Client Development, O'Melveny & Myers
• Cynthia Voth - Chief Client Officer, Miller Nash
• Jillian Kanter McKenna - Director of Marketing and Business Development, Verrill Law
• Suzette Bradbury - Director of Practice Group Marketing, Cozen O'Connor

Tune in to this Thanksgiving special for an inspiring conversation filled with lessons on the power of innovation, kindness, and mentorship in legal marketing.

In this special Thanksgiving edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we bring together an inspiring group of legal marketing professionals to reflect on the people and experiences that have shaped their careers. From the mentors who instilled the value of continuous learning to the strategies that help achieve work-life balance, our guests share heartfelt gratitude, invaluable advice, and insights into building resilience and thriving in the industry.

• Beth Huffman - Director of Marketing, Nelson Mullins Riley & Scarborough
• Angela Petros - Global Chief Marketing Officer, Baker McKenzie
• Karen Morton - Chief Marketing Officer, Cleary Gottlieb
• Lauren Mistretta - Chief Communications Officer, DLA Piper US
• Rachael Schilling - Marketing & Client Services Director, Liscow & Lewis
• Carrie Hanna - Chief Strategy Officer, Gunster
• Johnyne Garcia -  Head of Clients & Markets, Dentons US
• Sivan Galinsky - Chief Marketing Officer, Barack Ferrazzano Kirschbaum & Nagelberg
• Lisa Simon - Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer, Holland & Hart
• Tiffany Zeigler - Chief Marketing Officer, Polsinelli
• Heather Morse - Chief Business Development Officer, McGlinchey Stafford 

Thank you to all our guests for sharing their gratitude, wisdom, and experiences. 

Stay tuned for part two, where more industry leaders join us to discuss their inspirations and the value of boldness in legal marketing.

Looking beyond the legal marketing industry offers invaluable insights and fresh perspectives that can drive true innovation. In today’s episode of the Passle CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke welcomes Halina Kochanowicz, Chief Commercial Officer at IPH Ltd. Halina brings a wealth of knowledge from her extensive experience leading marketing for top-tier, magic-circle law firms to her current CCO role, where she continues to shape business strategies at the highest level.

In this conversation, we’ll delve into Halina’s unique journey, exploring the key lessons law firm marketers can learn from other industries. 

Halina and Will explore:

• Halina’s career journey to Chief Commercial Officer at IPH
• Why BD and marketing in law firms are “broken”, the core issues in legal, and how they differ from challenges in other industries
• How marketing and BD functions in law firms compare to those in other sectors, and what law firms can do to enhance the strategic impact of those functions
• The results of using unconventional methods like sales representation and what law firms can learn from these strategies
• The emerging trends or technologies that will drive change, and how law firms should adapt
• Advice for law firm marketing and BD leaders who want to adopt more disruptive and innovative tactics

This week's special episode of the CMO Series Digital Masterclass was recorded live in London where Charles Cousins sat down with Sophie Bowkett, CMO at Bird & Bird, for an insightful conversation about the firm's remarkable digital transformation journey.

In this episode, Charles and Sophie delve into the story behind Bird & Bird's comprehensive rebrand and the development of a scalable digital infrastructure designed to support their global teams. They discuss the importance of thought leadership, lawyer activation, and self-service tools in crafting a bold market presence.

Sophie shares her experiences and insights on managing large-scale projects, the challenges of implementing behavioural change across a vast network of 1,700 lawyers, and the strategies Bird & Bird employs to ensure their brand resonates with a human-centric approach.

Learn how Bird & Bird is leveraging technology to democratize data, enabling their lawyers to take charge of their personal branding and business development. Discover the synergies between various projects, including the Activator BD and sales training, and how they align with the firm's five-year strategic plan.

This episode is packed with practical insights and real-world examples of how a forward-thinking law firm is navigating the digital landscape to enhance its market presence. Whether you're in the legal industry or interested in digital transformation, this conversation offers valuable takeaways for building a world-class digital presence.

Building a world-class digital presence is often associated with big budgets and large teams. In this episode, we’re exploring how to achieve online success with a leaner approach. 

Charlie Knight welcomes Karen Wilcox, former Head of Marketing at Taylor English and previous Marketing Director at Kilpatrick to the CMO Series Digital Masterclass. With a foundation in Big Four consulting, Karen now leads as President of Marketing Speaks, bringing years of expertise in driving effective digital marketing strategies.

Join us as Karen shares her unique insights on how firms can develop and implement impactful digital marketing approaches with a lean team. She’ll offer best practices and actionable advice for firms of all sizes looking to make a big impact with streamlined resources.

Karen and Charlie explore:

• The starting point for implementing a digital strategy with limited resources
• The most important questions you should ask your digital partners to ensure they're the right fit for your team
• The key to building effective relationships with your digital partners
• What success looks like and real-life examples of effective campaigns and initiatives
• Advice for CMOs looking to build a world-class digital presence with a small team

A firm's brand establishes credibility and attracts clients, while individual attorneys' brands build trust and showcase expertise. Together, they create a synergy that enhances the firm’s reputation and market reach.

In this episode of the CMO Series Digital Masterclass, Charlie Knight is joined by Amanda Schneider, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Epstein Becker Green. With 20 years of law firm leadership experience, Amanda discusses how CMOs can effectively balance integrating a firm’s overall brand strategy with the individual brands of its attorneys online.

Amanda and Charlie Cover:

• How firms balance between their law firm brand and the brands of their individual attorneys
• How firms bring the personal brands of attorneys into the overall strategy
• The role of thought leadership in building personal and legal brands
• How the different practice areas and their brands work within the firm's overall brand
• Measuring the effectiveness of a brand and its impact from both an individual and firm perspective.
• Amanda’s top tip for marketing BD leaders looking to take a more integrated approach to building their online brand

In this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we revisit a memorable session from the CMO Series Live held in New York.

Eugene McCormick set the stage for an engaging discussion with Alison Arjoon, the Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Fragomen, and Luke Ferrandino, the Chief Marketing Officer at Paul Weiss. Together, they explored how AI is ushering in a new era of collaboration and transforming the Business Pyramid.

Alison, Luke and Eugene Cover:

• The role of technology and the challenges faced by both traditional and non-traditional law firms

• Strategies for effectively leveraging technology to streamline processes

• How AI contributed to project successes and fostered a new way of collaboration 

• The evolving role of AI and its current and future impact