Outthinkers – Details, episodes & analysis

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Outthinkers

Outthinker

Business

Frequency: 1 episode/11d. Total Eps: 175

The Outthinkers podcast is a growth strategy podcast hosted by Kaihan Krippendorff. Each week, Kaihan talks with forward-looking strategists and innovators that are challenging the status quo, leading the future of business, and shaping our world.

Chief strategy officers and executives can learn more and join the Outthinker community at https://outthinkernetwork.com/.

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#154 — Christina Farr: The Storyteller’s Advantage for Strategy and Growth

Thursday, November 20, 2025 • Duration 39:20

Christina Farr is an investor, startup advisor, and former health-tech journalist. She’s the author of The Storyteller’s Advantage: How Powerful Narratives Make Businesses Thrive and the creator of the Second Opinion newsletter, where she decodes healthcare and technology for leaders.

Most leaders try to move markets with features, roadmaps, and metrics. But the winners often move them with narrative—stories that rally investors, customers, and teams to build the future with them. Christina unpacks how great storytellers create belief that becomes momentum.

You’ll learn a simple framework to make your strategy legible and compelling, how to pick the right plot for your message, and practical ways to craft origin stories, pitch decks, and CEO communications that persuade.

In this episode we cover:

The SOAP framework: Surprise, Openness, Authenticity, Pathos
Seven classic plots for business (from David vs. Goliath to Rebirth) and when to use each
Case studies: PillPack vs. incumbents; Apple’s comeback; Microsoft’s reinvention; WeWork’s cautionary tale
Fundraising and sales: decks that move capital and customers
Leading in tense moments: speaking to charged issues without fracturing culture

Episode Timeline:

00:00 – Highlight from today’s episode

01:05 – Introducing Christina + the power of narrative in business

03:05 – “If you really know me…”

04:20 – What is strategy? Story as prognostication

07:10 – Why story beats data alone in pitches, sales, and retention

10:55 – The SOAP framework (Surprise, Openness, Authenticity, Pathos)

18:40 – Engineering surprise; calibrating vulnerability

22:00 – Seven plots leaders can borrow (with modern brand examples)

28:45 – Case study: PillPack’s David vs. Goliath playbook

32:40 – Rebirths and tragedies: Apple, Microsoft, WeWork

36:10 – Origin stories that travel (and ones that don’t)

38:10 – CEO comms on divisive topics, without breaking culture

39:20 – Where to learn more from Christina

Additional Resources:

Book: The Storyteller’s Advantage — Christina Farr (Basic Venture) -https://basic-venture.com/titles/christina-farr/the-storytellers-advantage/9781541704299/
Newsletter: Second Opinion - https://secondopinion.media/
Christina Farr on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinafarr/

Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

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#145—Ryan Hamilton: Growing and Managing Customer Segments Successfully

Tuesday, July 1, 2025 • Duration 47:24

Ryan Hamilton is an associate professor of marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things. He is also co-host of the podcast The Intuitive Customer, and author of a book by the same name. He has consulted on branding with companies like Walmart, FedEx, Home Depot, Caterpillar, ConAgra, Cigna, Visa, and Ipsos, among others.

To start a successful brand, you usually need to focus in on a specific, often niche, customer. But to grow the brand, you need to expand your customer base. A few brands have done this well (e.g., Starbucks or Apple) which have this loyal passionate base of fans that stick with them as the brands become ubiquitous. But, more often, brands fail to scale because the new customer they need in order to scale are too different from those core customers. They have different values or needs or beliefs.

In this episode, we dive into this dilemma, discussing how to predict, preempt, and manage the conflicts that will arise between a brand’s initial customers and the more varied customer segments it must attract in order to scale.

In this episode we cover:

This concept of “CSRM”—customer segment relationship management”
Examples of companies who have managed the growth dilemma well and those that have not—and what insights we can draw
A practical framework outlining the four types of customer relationship scenarios you may be facing, and what strategies to deploy for each one
How brands must be intentional about the type of value they offer

Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:14—Introducing Ryan + the topic of today’s episode
03:44—If you really know me, you know that...
05:12—What's your definition of strategy?
05:52—The basis for Ryan's second book, The Growth Dilemma
08:34—Breaking down an "identity of culture," within a brand
11:07—Have brands moved from functional to identity-based culture?
15:30—The concept of CSRM: Customer Segment Relationships Management (and the 2 x 2 matrix)25:25—Breaking down the different types of customer segment conflicts38:07—How do you know when you need to "fire" a customer segment?41:19—How do the principles talked about in this episode apply to the employee segments?43:30—How does the age of hyper-customization affect customer relationship management?46:02—How can people continue learning from you?______________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321/Book website: https://www.growthdilemmabook.com/

#55—Anna Tavis: Preparing for the Future of Work

Episode 54

Friday, August 19, 2022 • Duration 22:12

Dr. Anna Tavis is Clinical Professor and Academic Director of Human Capital Management Department at NYU School of Professional Studies, Senior Fellow with the Conference Board, and the Academic in Residence with Executive Networks. Anna has been named to Thinkers50 Radar for 2020. Her latest book, Humans at Work. The Art and Practice of Creating a Remote Workplace, was published in the spring of 2022.

Anna publishes regularly and has been quoted by the Washington Post, Bloomberg, The Human Resources Executive, and Training Magazine. Her Harvard Business Review articles with Peter Cappelli "HR Goes Agile" ( 2018) and "The Performance Management Revolution" (2016) were reprinted in HBR's Must Reads and in Agile: The Insights You Need from Harvard Business Review (2020).

She has navigated a diverse global career in academia, business and consulting, and was the Head of Motorola’s EMEA OD function based in London, Nokia’s Global Head of Talent Management based in Helsinki, Chief Learning Officer with United Technologies Corp based in Hartford, CT and Global Head of Talent and Organizational Development with AIG Investments based in NYC.

Her work on the topics of Future of Work, People Analytics and Technology, Employee Experience and Intelligent Automation in the Workplace are truly at the cutting edge.

In this podcast, she shares:

Three trends most impacting the future of work
How AI will shape what work humans do in the future
Why diversity and inclusion matter
What it will take for an organization or a leader in an organization to win the war for talent going forward

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"With culture, you're dealing with changes in values, but I think even more important: changes in behaviors, how we do things around here."

-Anna Tavis

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#54—James Heskett: Building a Culture for Competitive Advantage

Episode 54

Friday, July 1, 2022 • Duration 22:04

James L. Heskett is UPS Foundation Professor Emeritus at the Harvard Business School and author of his latest book, Win From Within: Build Organizational Culture for Competitive Advantage. He completed his Ph.D. at the Graduate School of Business, Stanford University, and has been a member of the faculty of The Ohio State University as well as President of Logistics Systems, Inc. Since 2000, he has authored a blog on the school's Working Knowledge web site. He has served as a consultant to companies in North America, Latin America, and Europe.

James was the 1974 recipient of the John Drury Sheahan Award of the Council of Logistics Management, the 1992 Marketing Educator of the Year Award of Sales and Marketing Executives International, and the 2010 Distinguished Career Contribution Award in Services Management of American Marketing Association.

Among his publications are books The Culture Cycle (FT Press, 2011), co-authorship of The Ownership Quotient (Harvard Business Press, 2008), The Value Profit Chain (The Free Press, 2003); The Service Profit Chain (The Free Press, 1997); Corporate Culture and Performance, among many others, and numerous articles in such publications as the Harvard Business Review, Journal of Marketing, Sloan Management Review, and California Management Review.

A member of the faculty of the Harvard Business School since 1965, he has at different times taught courses in marketing, business logistics, the management of service operations, business policy, and service management, general management, and the entrepreneurial manager as well as served as Senior Associate Dean in charge of academic programs.

In this podcast, he shares:

Why companies with strong cultures often DON’T outperform and what kind of culture you actually need to win
Lessons from successful culture design efforts from companies like Microsoft, Uber, Southwest Airlines, and Ritz Carlton
Some of the most important things you must do as a leader to transform the culture of your organization
Why the idea that culture takes a long time is false, and how you can actually set the change in motion is six months

#53—Emmanuel Probst: Branding Hacks to Stay Competitive

Episode 1

Friday, June 24, 2022 • Duration 26:11

Emmanuel Probst is Global Lead, Brand Thought-Leadership at Ipsos, adjunct professor at the University of California at Los Angeles, and the author of Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller Brand Hacks: How to Build Brands by Fulfilling the Human Quest for Meaning

Emmanuel’s background combines over 16 years of market research and marketing experience with strong academic achievements.

At Ipsos, Emmanuel supports numerous Fortune 500 companies by providing them with a full understanding of their customer’s journey. His clients span across a wide range of industries, including consumer packaged goods, retail, financial services, advertising agencies and media outlets.

Emmanuel also teaches Consumer Market Research at UCLA and writes about consumer psychology for numerous publications.

He holds an MBA in Marketing from the University of Hull, United Kingdom and a Doctorate in Consumer Psychology from the University of Nottingham Trent, United Kingdom.

In this podcast, he shares:

In what ways B2B branding and B2C branding are different, and in what ways they are the same
Why brands are increasingly finding they need to compete on purpose rather than the uniqueness of their product
Why to be effective at competing the ecosystem-based future we will need to think about activating a community of companies, bound by a common purpose, to deliver experiences rather than outcomes

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"What people care about is find something that is fulfilling and something that contributes to building their personality and who they and their family and their world. And brands can help with this. What feels really important to me is the hero is the audience whom becomes the consumer. The hero is not the brand."

-Emmanuel Probst

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#52—James Stavridis: Nine Lessons in Making High-Risk Decisions Under Pressure

Episode 52

Friday, June 17, 2022 • Duration 19:43

Admiral James Stavridis, USN (Ret.) spent more than thirty years in the U.S. Navy, rising to the rank of four-star admiral.

He was Supreme Allied Commander at NATO and previously commanded U.S. Southern Command, overseeing military operations through Latin America. At sea, he commanded a Navy destroyer, a destroyer squadron, and an aircraft carrier battle group in combat.

He holds a Ph. D. from the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University, where he recently served five years as dean. He received fifty medals in the course of his military career, including twenty-eight from foreign nations.

James is the author of To Risk It All: Nine Conflicts and the Crucible of Decision, which he shares insights from here.

He has published nine other books, including 2034: A Novel of the Next World War, with Elliott Ackerman. He is chief international analyst for NBC News and a contributing editor for Time magazine.

He is currently the Vice Chair, Global Affairs of the Carlyle Group and the Chair of the Board of Trustees for the Rockefeller Foundation

In this podcast, he shares:

The strategic lesson we can draw from great military leaders of the past, John Paul Jones, and today, Admiral Michelle Howard
Four keys to making the right decision, especially in moments of urgency
Tips for keeping focused on your “north star” and avoid getting distracted by near-term noise

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"You have to be willing to bet on yourself in the hardest situations and be determined even when things appear to be going against you."

-Admiral James Stavridis

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#51—Ben Casnocha: Embracing Your Inner Entrepreneur

Episode 51

Friday, June 10, 2022 • Duration 20:56

Ben Casnocha is an entrepreneur and cofounder of Village Global, a Silicon Valley venture capital firm that has funded hundreds of startups and the co-author, with LinkedIn co-founder Reid Hoffman, of The Start-Up of You: Adapt, Take Risks, Grow your Network, and Transform Your Career.

He delivers keynote speeches on business and globalization and has appeared on CBS’s The Early Show, CNN, and CNBC.

He is the coauthor of the New York Times bestselling management book The Alliance: Managing Talent in the Networked Age (with LinkedIn chairman Reid Hoffman and entrepreneur Chris Yeh).

He started and scaled several ventures, including an e-government software company (Comcate) that currently delivers hosted CRM solutions to hundreds of local governments in America, an online education business, and a top tier boutique management training business.

In this podcast, he shares:

His view on what the future of work will look like, and why embracing randomness and building your network will become ever more important
Why we should stop thinking of employees as “family” or “free agents” but rather as allies on a “tour of duty”
Whether we are experiencing today a true shift in the nature of the employer-employee contract, or whether the pendulum will swing back

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"One of the new terms is the concept of portfolio careers because we realized that in the last 10 years, there are so many people who don't just have one job. Their career is stitched together, different a lot of writers and speakers and consultants run this at the high end. And at the low end, it's gig workers and everywhere in between. And so people are stitching together kind of braiding the modern career together in a way that's very different than the 40-hour-a-week company man."

-Ben Casnocha

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#50—Salim Ismail: Why Exponential Organizations Outperform Others

Episode 52

Friday, June 3, 2022 • Duration 21:21

Salim Ismail is the lead author of the bestselling business book, Exponential Organizations. A renowned technology strategist and serial entrepreneur with ties to Yahoo!, Google, and Singularity University, he consults with governments and the world’s top Fortune 500 companies on innovation and growth. His work has been featured in premier media outlets like the New York Times, Bloomberg Business Week, Fortune, Forbes, WIRED, Vogue, and the BBC.

Salim founded ExOWorks in 2016 to help transform global business by catapulting organizations into the world of exponential thinking. He travels extensively sharing a global perspective on the impact of breakthrough technologies and how organizations can leverage these disruptions to grow 10 times faster than their peers. He is co-founder and Chairman of OpenExO and an active Board Member of the XPRIZE Foundation.

In this podcast, he shares:

Why a new breed of organization is emerging and what that organization looks like
What exponential technologies are, which of those we should be tracking, and how they will impact your organizations’ future
Three practical steps you can take to fight corporate antibodies and get your leadership to take innovation seriously

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"We've never seen this much innovation hit us at the same time globally, ever. That means, every piece that you thought about the world before is gone."

-Salim Ismail

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Episode Timeline:

00:00—Introducing Salim + The topic of today’s episode

1:51—If you really know me you know that...

2:10—What is your definition of strategy?

2:58—Could you tell us about your journey with ExO, and what it is?

#49—Geoff Smart: A Proven Method for Optimizing Your Hiring Process

Episode 49

Friday, May 27, 2022 • Duration 20:29

Dr. Geoff Smart is the Chairman & Founder of ghSMART. Founded in 1995, ghSMART helps Fortune 500 CEOs & boards, billionaire entrepreneurs, and heads of state achieve their goals through hiring, developing, and leading talented teams. They serve clients globally from 12 offices in North America and Europe.

For three consecutive years, Forbes named ghSMART the best management consulting firm in its industry segment. ghSMART is the subject of two Harvard Business School Cases, and its credo is “We exist to help leaders amplify their positive impact on the world.”

ghSMART has published three bestselling books. Who: A Method for Hiring is a New York Times bestseller that is currently ranked #1 on Amazon.com on the topic of hiring talented teams, among a number of other bestsellers such as TopGrading and the Power Score.

Geoff has personally advised four sitting U.S. Governors, a U.S. Senator, White House Fellows, world leaders in education, defense, and public health, and the President of the World Bank.

In this podcast, he shares:

What Peter Drucker really meant by “Culture eats strategy for breakfast.”
Insights from a decades-long study into hiring practices
The big reasons why the success rate in hiring is only 50%
The four practices you can put in place to raise that success rate to 90%

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"So to me, strategy and culture both come from having better talent, more talented, diverse good-hearted people on your team than the next competitor. That's the work, that's the hard work once you have that "Oh, sure let's go international, let's go digital, let's smoke this set of competitors. Let's do this customer segmentation." You can do strategy when you have the right talent and culture."

-Geoff Smart

__________________________________________________________________________________________

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