Welcome to Open Late, a deep dive into all kinds of relationships. Let’s explore the multi-faceted, frequently misunderstood, dynamics of polyamory and being “open” even means. Weekly on this podcast, you’ll hear about my personal journey with Opening Up, and uncovering the deep and intricate layers of our hearts as expressed in the ways we love others and ourselves.
If you’re interested in relationships as a container for growth and deeper knowing of your truest self you’re in the right place. If you’re interested in adding more spice and sexiness to your life you’re also in the right place. Each episode we’ll share candid real-life experiences (and or stories), knowledge and tools to support you in creating your own relationship magic.
Open Late is for anyone who wants to explore with respect, curiosity, and deepen their self-awareness in order to create a conscious relationship whether you’re monogamous, ish, poly or dating everyone.
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Introducing: Hey Babe, Can We Talk? with Drea Renee
Friday, April 19, 2024 • Duration 00:34
Welcome to "Hey Babe, Can We Talk?" the go-to podcast for the Hot Mess Expresses, the Black Sheep's of Love, and those navigating the ups and downs in matters of the heart. I'm your bestie Drea Renee, the Queen of Romantic Disasters, and just like you she has ignored the red flags and done everything sideways! Whether you're happily coupled, single as a Pringle, or caught in a situationship... let's embark on real and candid conversations about the rollercoaster of relationships. It's time to get honest with ourselves and our partners. I’ve done everything wrong, so as a relationship survivor, let me help you do it right. Go grab your headphones and lets get into it!
In this episode of the Open Late Podcast, there's a unique twist as Jess welcomes Drea Renee back to the studio. However, this time, after more than 2 years, Jess finds herself in the guest seat. It's a significant moment as the show introduces its new host, Drea, an expert specializing in love and dependency, who will be taking over Open Late Podcast while Jess is on her maternity sabbatical. They engage in a conversation about Jess's reflections on the future of Open Late and why Drea is the ideal substitute host for this period. They discuss the next steps for the podcast and provide insights into what Jess and Pasha's parenting style will look like. Drea shares her experience of seeing Pasha and Jess in the wild as a polyamorous couple, and they delve into the topic of people trying to protect someone they believe is being cheated on by their partner. As the episode concludes, Jess surprises Drea with a heartfelt gift to mark the beginning of her upcoming journey as the host, and she takes her last bow, at least for now.
00:30 It's official. I am taking over for Jess while she's on maternity leave. - Drea Renee
2:45 I had the realization just a few weeks ago that being a mother is a short-lived little window. - Jessica Esfandiary
4:43 I love a camera and a microphone. I'm always down for it. - Drea Renee
9:28 I would love to sing to my babies, sing to them or write little songs for them. But I feel like writing will be something that'll be, like, manageable. - Jessica Esfandiary
10:30 I Think is the exhilaration of like having this new love and watching Pasha become a father, that makes me so excited - Jessica Esfandiary
12:43 If I could have a partner that is consistent, that knows me and that knows my circumstance and my relationship that's familiar, I think I would maybe go out here and there when time permits. - Jessica Esfandiary
15:28 I want it to be fluid where it's not this thing where we sit our kids down one day. And we're like, we have something to tell you. Mommy and daddy are in an open relationship, we're not doing that. - Jessica Esfandiary
16:22 Children learn what they live and they learn what love is based on what they see. - Jessica Esfandiary
21:27 I like to split up my emotions because I think, like, jealousy is a little bit lazy. I think that there's envy, there's fear of abandonment, like all there micro emotions underneath it. - Jessica Esfandiary
23:57 What's meant for you, won't miss you. The Universe does not fuck up - Jessica Esfandiary
Take advantage of a 30% discount on Dr. Zhana's eligible courses with code "JESSICA", applied to the first payment only for offers with multiple payments or subscriptions.
In this episode of the Open Late Podcast, after more than a year, Jess welcomes back Pasha, her husband and highly requested guest. Together, they open up about the challenges they've faced and conquered, sharing the intimate details of how they navigated and overcame the struggles that life threw their way. They explore the topic of workaholism, shedding light on how it can impact not only one's personal life but also their relationship, emphasizing the potential consequences when a relationship isn't actively nurtured. They speak openly about their decision to seek therapy, offering insights into why they embarked on this journey together and what they've learned along the way. They also express views on jealousy, discussing how to handle it and why confronting it is important. With the anticipation of their twins' arrival, Jess and Pasha take us through their preparations, they also share their biggest fears and concerns as they look ahead to becoming parents to two precious babies. Furthermore, Jess and Pasha generously devote time to respond to questions from their listeners, offering thoughtful and practical advice on a range of topics, including relationship dynamics and life's unpredictable twists and turns.
In this Episode of Open Late:
Raw insights and dynamics of a polyamorous marriage
Overcoming personal challenges and addressing jealousy
In this episode of Open Late, Jess goes solo and provides listeners with a personal life update. She shares her excitement and anticipation as her baby twins are nearing their arrival, and how this has triggered a profound transformation in all aspects of her life. As the Open Late Podcast celebrates its two-year anniversary, Jess reflects on the journey so far, highlighting the growth and evolution of the show. She offers insights into the preparations for her upcoming motherhood journey, giving listeners a glimpse into the challenges and joys that come with it. Jess also shares a snippet of her lactation journey, providing a glimpse into the unique experiences and challenges she's encountered as she prepares to welcome her twins. As a special treat, Jess has a big surprise in store for the end of the episode, ensuring that listeners will be in for an exciting and memorable conclusion. Join Jess on this deeply personal and celebratory episode of Open Late.
In this episode of the Open Late Podcast, Jess sits down with Lolo Urbiztondo, Jess's former partner and best friend. They share recent updates on their lives, with Lolo recounting her journey of falling in love with her current partner and the profound realization of being in love. Jess reflects on the transformative changes she's experiencing as she prepares for the arrival of her babies. The episode's second part revisits the classic "Asking for a Friend" style. Jess and Lolo offer thoughtful responses to questions from their listeners, covering a range of significant themes. They explore the importance of seeking and trying therapy, the value of understanding how to date oneself, and how self-discovery plays a pivotal role in determining one's desires in a relationship. Additionally, they delve into the significance of trusting oneself and evaluating the strength of a relationship.
In this episode of Open Late,
Newest Life Updates
Lolo's current love story
Jess's reflections on impending motherhood
Importance of dating yourself first
Building strong relationships and JOMO “Joy of Missing Out”
In this episode of the Open Late Podcast, Jess connects with Drea Renee, a close friend of Jessica's and an expert specializing in love and dependency. Sobriety takes the spotlight as they explore Drea's personal journey and her realization of a love addiction problem. They delve into the significance of S.L.A.A. (Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous) in addressing dependency issues within relationships. Drea shares insights into the support and tools provided by this program. As the conversation unfolds, they address the challenge of losing one's identity within a partnership, the innate longing for love, and the pursuit of authentic love acceptance. Non-monogamy becomes a thought-provoking subject, with discussions revolving around its potential impact on love addiction. Drea provides valuable guidance for those who suspect they might be struggling with partner addiction, and offer practical steps and insights to help individuals navigate these challenging emotions.
In this Episode of Open Late:
From sobriety to love addiction
Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous
Understanding your addiction
Challenges of losing one's identity in a relationship
Consideration of non-monogamy's impact on love addiction
In this Bonus episode of the Open Late Podcast, Jess continues her conversation with Robbie Garippo, a close friend of Jessica and Pasha. This episode delves into an intriguing array of topics that touch upon the intricacies of human intimacy and connection. First, they embark on a candid discussion about the frequency of masturbation, seeking to strike a balance that fosters both physical well-being and emotional health. Then they take a deeper turn into the multifaceted world of orgasms and explore the fascinating interplay between the mind and body in the experience of these intense moments of pleasure and release.
117. Awakening Masculine Energy with Robbie Garippo
Episode 117
Wednesday, October 4, 2023 • Duration 49:57
In this episode of the Open Late Podcast, Jess sits down with Robbie Garippo, a close friend of Jessica and Pasha, who has been part of their team and family for many years. They touch on the significance of therapy and how it has played a vital role in their lives. Robbie opens up about a hard breakup he endured, shedding light on the transformative impact it had on his personal growth. They delve into the realm of traumatic childhood experiences, exploring the complexities of giving and receiving love. They explore the dynamics of relationships, drawing a distinction between short-term casual encounters and long-term committed partnerships. They also talk about the concept of masculine and feminine energies within our bodies, as they reflect on the importance of understanding and balancing these aspects of ourselves.
In this Episode of Open Late:
The importance of therapy
A transformative experience after a challenging breakup
116. The Evolutionary Roots of Sexuality with Dr. Wednesday Martin
Episode 116
Wednesday, September 27, 2023 • Duration 31:46
In this episode of the Open Late Podcast, Jess continues her conversation with Dr. Wednesday Martin, a bestselling author and renowned sexpert. Wednesday's mission is to help women feel less weird in their desires and experiences. Their discussion delves into various models of desire and arousal, the measurement of responsive desire, and the controversy surrounding the term "ethical non monogamy." The profound influence of language on our emotions and learning is another intriguing topic they explore. Wednesday Martin demystifies menopause, highlighting the contrast between its portrayal and the reality women experience. They also delve into Wednesday's book, "Untrue," which provides incredible insights into women's desires and relationships. To conclude, they share an exciting revelation about a more effective position for sexual stimulation and a deeper understanding of the complexities of desire and relationships.
115. The Complex History of Human Desire with Dr. Wednesday Martin
Episode 115
Wednesday, September 20, 2023 • Duration 41:18
In this episode of the Open Late Podcast, Jess connects with Dr. Wednesday Martin, a New York Times bestselling author and renowned sexpert known for her work on parenting, step-parenting, female sexuality, motherhood, and popular culture. Their discussion is a deep dive into various aspects of human nature and sexuality. Wednesday introduces us to the world of bonobos, shedding light on how these primates offer insights into our own social and sexual behaviors. She also delves into the fascinating world of regression analysis, a powerful statistical tool that helps uncover patterns and insights in her research. The conversation takes a historical turn as Wednesday discusses how the advent of agriculture transformed the roles of women in societies and continues to shape gender dynamics today. They also explore female anatomy and the concept of the "girl boner," highlighting the complexity of female sexual pleasure and arousal.
In this Episode of Open Late:
Human nature and sexuality
Regression analysis
Dominant female species and evolution to experience pleasure
The impact of agriculture on women's roles and gender dynamics
5:18 We've always been like such an open book with each other, and that's always worked for us because we love open communication. We love to over communicate, and we never wanted to have any secrets. - Jessica Esfandiary
6:20 I'm looking for something meaningful right now. I'm not looking for just hookups. - Pasha Esfandiary
9:46 Specially moving into this season of becoming a mom is like, I know how sacred my energy is and I dont have a lot of it right now - Jessica Esfandiary
16:09 I think that I and you as well took our relationship for granted and didn't realize that it was like its own living organism that needed care and attention and focus truly, and that it needs to have like energy poured into it. - Jessica Esfandiary
18:48 I think it's really important to know that I've made a massive effort that after five or 6:00, there's no work. - Pasha Esfandiary
23:09 Jealousy is a tool and an indicator to something that you can work on that is deeper and more prevalent -Pasha Esfandiary
40:33 At some point any new partner you get will not satisfy every single one of your needs to the way that we have dreamed up in our society. - Pasha Esfandiary
44:08 Being with other people can create more desire and chemistry within your own relationship -Jessica Esfandiary
49:17 People become more understanding with education and just if you're authentic, they're going to be authentic too. - Pasha Esfandiary
51:58 I do see myself coming back and see this show growing and evolving with me as I become a mom, a polyamorous mother of twins. - Jessica Esfandiary
Take advantage of a 30% discount on Dr. Zhana's eligible courses with code "JESSICA", applied to the first payment only for offers with multiple payments or subscriptions.
00:36 We are expecting twins very soon, and that has turned my life upside down and on its head in ways that I could never imagine. And I have grown so much as a woman just by preparing for these sweet, special little beings. – Jessica Esfandiary
2:27 Over the last two years, I have really interviewed all of the people that I wanted to. – Jessica Esfandiary
5:31 It's been a blast. And I've learned and I've grown so much by doing this. – Jessica Esfandiary
6:56 The decision was not an easy one in the beginning, but the closer I get to the birth of my babies, the more clear it becomes that I want to focus solely on motherhood. – Jessica Esfandiary
7:32 I am a relationship junkie, and I know that the relationship that I have with my son and daughter will be the most important. – Jessica Esfandiary
9:03 Open Late podcast is actually not going away. I'm just going to hibernate in these days with my breast pump and breastfeeding two babies at once. – Jessica Esfandiary
10:44 Because as I've mentioned here many times, Pasha and I do not plan on closing our relationship. We both have previous partners that are still friends in our lives, that still come in and out of our lives, and something were to happen, I want you all to be the first to know about it. – Jessica Esfandiary
13:49 Thank you for understanding that this is such a major life shift for me and I want to be as present as possible for it. You know, this podcast, it really changed me. – Jessica Esfandiary
14:19 So thank you, for helping me own my choices as a woman and the way that I love publicly. – Jessica Esfandiary
14:36 I've had to grow as a woman owning who I am, owning my sexuality and owning my non-monogamy publicly has been one of the greatest gifts of my life, and it's really helped shape who I am and shape how I see the world and more than anything, I feel complete in this part of the journey. – Jessica Esfandiary
Take advantage of a 30% discount on Dr. Zhana's eligible courses with code "JESSICA", applied to the first payment only for offers with multiple payments or subscriptions.
2:30 I saw him and there was this energetic pull I felt. – Lolo Urbiztondo
14:13 My kids will know that we had a former relationship. It's something I will never going to hide. – Jessica Esfandiary
15:13 We will remain open, we are not closing our relationship just because we are having kids. – Jessica Esfandiary
19:01 You are in the presence with your partner, and it's important to remember not to project your past and experiences that were traumatic on to your current relationship, because when you do that you make your partner wrong for the things that happened to you in the past. – Jessica Esfandiary
21:30 There are so many things to explore, and every different kink dynamic has a full spectrum. – Jessica Esfandiary
30:27 A good relationship with promise, or a partner that is showing up and its also doing the work, keeps me motivated. But if the other person isn’t engaging, the way that you are in this healthy way than I am unmotivated. – Jessica Esfandiary
31:54 I look at it as like when you are in partnership you are in this love temple together and you are both adding in love deposits. – Lolo Urbiztondo
36:05 For me dating myself hardcore was listening to the things I always wanted to do and checking them off my list. – Lolo Urbiztondo
40:32 When you can look at everything that happens to you, even if it really sucks and hurts, as like happening for you and not to you, you start to look at life as a gift - Jessica Esfandiary
43:34 A quality person is going to create safety in your relationship whether they are with someone else as a primary or not-Jessica Esfandiary
49:18 The crazy thing about non monogamy is that it's not about this new person. A lot of people think it is “oh I have such a great connection with this new person” but the truth is new person brings out a side of you that you love that you haven't experienced in awhile. – Jessica Esfandiary
50:00 We live in a society and a culture that is geared towards monogamy where people think that this is the norm and so it's really hard for people to break out the box. – Jessica Esfandiary
Take advantage of a 30% discount on Dr. Zhana's eligible courses with code "JESSICA", applied to the first payment only for offers with multiple payments or subscriptions.
1:30 Love addiction it's like any other addiction, if you have an alcohol addiction, gambling, food, when that becomes all consuming, it becomes your entire life. - Drea Renee
3:08 When I got sober, its like with any addiction, it doesn't change your wiring. You just stop doing one thing and that laser focus goes to something else. - Drea Renee
5:21 I wanted to be with him so badly that I was like “I'm just going to be a part of you”. Whatever you want me to be, I'll be, so I can get you to love me. - Drea Renee
6:44 My parents divorced when I was seven and my mum had me really, really young. So it's like kids growing up with kids, not really knowing how to emotionally evolve and other things the proper way. - Drea Renee
7:54 Awareness is one thing,but you must put into practice completely new ways of being. - Jessica Esfandiary
13:07 You're addicted to the chemistry in your body. That adrenaline, dopamine. Everything that happens when you're in fight or flight, when you feel like you have the thing that you want. And if you don't have the thing that you want, you're going to die. - Jessica Esfandiary
17:00 Sometimes I wish you could just get somebody a flashcard. Like these are my strengths, these are my weaknesses. Just take a look. And if you don't want to, give it back. - Drea Renee
18:30 The relationship that you have for the first two years is something entirely different, it is its own beast. And you will never have it again. - Jessica Esfandiary
20:17 In some ways with like dating apps, everything is so deliverable and so fast that it makes it challenging to take your time. - Jessica Esfandiary
23:49 Your partner is not your superhero. - Jessica Esfandiary
31:49 Being in a room with a lot of other people that are going through the same thing was so helpful. - Drea Renee
Take advantage of a 30% discount on Dr. Zhana's eligible courses with code "JESSICA", applied to the first payment only for offers with multiple payments or subscriptions.
1:36 To have orgasms through the brain and body actually lead to a greater, more fulfilling, passionate relationship with your lover in the world. - Robbie Garippo
2:30 Essentially for men when you ejaculate you're basically giving in to your lower level passions. - Robbie Garippo
3:10 When you give in to those primal instincts so easily. It kind of echoes how you are, how you'll be in your life, in relationships. - Robbie Garippo
5:15 There's a buildup of tension in the release of tension. And so if you can take that tension instead of just releasing it, take it really high and circulate it, then you really start to tap into a true power. - Robbie Garippo
6:00 People resist high amounts of pleasure. - Jessica Esfandiary
Take advantage of a 30% discount on Dr. Zhana's eligible courses with code "JESSICA", applied to the first payment only for offers with multiple payments or subscriptions.
2:51 I'm a guy that wants the most out of life. Just wants to be happy, constantly working on myself. I'm a work in progress. - Robbie Garippo
6:05 Going through a breakup really made me look inward. I had no idea issues with my father, issues with my mother, and which was leading to issues in my every relationship in my life. - Robbie Garippo
10:07 Our bodies truly store anything that happens to you that is traumatic or that is unsettling, especially as a child, because you don't really have the proper tools to deal with it, or you've been taught that you can't express emotion. - Jessica Esfandiary
14:49 There's only so much that the body can also relearn or integrate in that moment. The brain needs time the same way that like as people, we can be active or resting and we actually need both and the rest is just as valuable because it's the integration. - Jessica Esfandiary
19:42 I can't really truly give my gift to my woman or the world unless I'm really standing in my divine masculinity. - Robbie Garippo
25:23 I'm finding it very empowering to myself because I'm stepping into these relationships fully, authentically me and unapologetically me and not like thinking about them, but I'm really thinking about me. And I've never done that before - Robbie Garippo
26:42 All have masculine and feminine inside of us and we can all play to those different energies, like I can embody a lot of my masculine side. - Jessica Esfandiary
27:28 Desire and chemistry is really the tension between polarity and like sameness. - Jessica Esfandiary
46:51 When you're frustrated, you get taken out of a very aligned, calm state and you get into an activated state where you are not your best self. And when we're speaking from that place, we're not speaking in an open hearted and clear way. We're speaking from hurt. -Jessica Esfandiary
Take advantage of a 30% discount on Dr. Zhana's eligible courses with code "JESSICA", applied to the first payment only for offers with multiple payments or subscriptions.
2:12 We had one model of sexual desire and it was a linear model and it went from arousal to desire to orgasm in a straight line. But we learned that desire is more complicated for both men and women than we thought it was, That it's not just a linear process. - Dr. Wednesday Martin
7:32 I thought, I have a big sexual appetite. And then I learn that that's normal and also to be reminded that the misinformation that we share is so damaging and disempowering not just to women, but to everyone. - Jessica Esfandiary
7:04 It's so empowering as a woman to learn that having a big sexual appetite is normal - Jessica Esfandiary
8:40 You and I are very fortunate. We're not more ethical than other people. We're fucking lucky that we live in a culture where we can say, “Listen, monogamy is not working for me, it's working for us. let's do something about this” and we won't get killed for it. Not every woman is so lucky. - Dr. Wednesday Martin
11:25 A lot of practitioners, especially men of what they call ethical non-monogamy, have been socialized away from communication and they have been socialized away from talking about feelings and being. - Dr. Wednesday Martin
27:51 One of my biggest agenda is to help women feel less weird about who they are with science and data. It's one thing if you say to a woman, Oh, no, no, honey, it's okay. If you want to be non-monogamous, that's normal. It's another thing if you back it up with 250 studies in peer review or peer journals, about the social and sexual behavior of non-human primates. - Dr. Wednesday Martin
Take advantage of a 30% discount on Dr. Zhana's eligible courses with code "JESSICA", applied to the first payment only for offers with multiple payments or subscriptions.
7:23 The means of production shifting from either at-home agriculture, stick and poke agriculture or hunting and gathering that transition to plow culture changed our beliefs radically about who women and men are, including that men became more sexually entitled and privileged. – Dr. Wednesday Martin
12:16 After the agricultural shift, for some women who had dependent children, they were looked at if they were not bringing home the calories, if they were not bringing home the bacon, they had less power relative to men who were doing it. – Dr. Wednesday Martin
15:54 In the long arc of human evolution, inequality is a recent aberration. Women being subjugated is a recent aberration in the long arc of human equality. – Dr. Wednesday Martin
16:28 Women being subjugated is a recent aberration in the arc of human evolution. – Dr. Wednesday Martin
21:51 We are more closely related to bonobos than we are to chimps. – Dr. Wednesday Martin
22:21 We evolved from a female-dominant species where the females are remarkably promiscuous and they would rather have sex with other females than with a male, and that's how they build their social power. – Dr. Wednesday Martin
25:29 We evolved as super flexible, sexual and social strategist, that means we can thrive in a number of situations. – Dr. Wednesday Martin
25:42 Our organs and where everything is placed, how we function, and how we experience pleasure really do point to the fact that we come from a long line of society where we would have multiple sex partners. - Jessica Esfandiary
37:42 A female chimp who has a very abject, dangerous life, and they get beaten by males and by other females, low-ranking female chimps. They will risk death at the hands of a dominant male who leaves their troop and goes wandering, goes out there, finds a male who is a stranger, and copulates with him. – Dr. Wednesday Martin
Take advantage of a 30% discount on Dr. Zhana's eligible courses with code "JESSICA", applied to the first payment only for offers with multiple payments or subscriptions.
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