Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard conclude their series on "Dei Verbum," the Second Vatican Council’s document on Divine Revelation. Ken, a former Baptist pastor, Kenny, a former Pentecostal pastor, and Matt, who comes from a Wesleyan background, each take a principle from "Dei Verbum," and show how it has enriched and expanded their understanding of what the Bible is and how God speaks through it, now that they view the Scriptures through Catholic eyes. Watch more episodes of On the Journey: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/ Our Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org Support our work: https://www.chnetwork.org/donate

Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series on "Dei Verbum," the Second Vatican Council’s document on Divine Revelation. They continue their discussion of how God's Word should infuse, inform, and inspire God's people, not only through the formal liturgy of the Church, but also through private study and devotion. Matt, Ken, and Kenny look at how official Catholic teaching puts to rest the oft-repeated myth that the Church doesn't want Her members to understand the Bible. Watch more episodes of On the Journey: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/ Our Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org Support our work: https://www.chnetwork.org/donate

Kenny Burchard continues to share with Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley the story of his journey to the Catholic Faith. Kenny shares the series of experiences and the process of discernment that led him to step away from ministry as a pastor in the Foursquare Church. He discusses three watershed moments that led him to believe that whatever God had in store for him, it was somewhere besides a Pentecostal pulpit. More episodes of On the Journey: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/ Our Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org Support our work: https://www.chnetwork.org/donate

Before moving on to a discussion of Christian authority from a historical perspective in the next episode, Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley bring together some of the most important points about what Scripture tells us in regard to authority, and discuss how those pieces fit together to give us a picture of how the early Church thought about itself. For both Matt and Ken in their Protestant backgrounds, the Bible was considered the sole and sufficient rule of faith, so understanding the overall Scriptural sense of authority was central in their approach to considering the claims of the Catholic Church. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they went from Evangelical Christian understandings of authority to embracing what the Catholic faith teaches about the relationship between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium. In Matthew 16, when Jesus changes Simon's name to Peter, what is the significance of that moment and what are its implications? Matt and Ken look at how the language used by Jesus in this passage has importance for Peter's role in the early Church, as prophet, patriarch, foundation, steward, rabbi, and even forgiver of sins. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church.

Moving on from Peter's role in the Gospels, Matt and Ken look at his role in the early Church as detailed especially in the first chapters of the Book of Acts. From his role preaching at Pentecost, to his testifying before Jewish authorities, to healings and miracles, it is clear that Peter is in a role of leadership among the apostles. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they went from Evangelical Christian understandings of authority to embracing what the Catholic faith teaches about the relationship between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium. What does the Bible tell us about Peter's role among the apostles, not only during the time of Jesus' public ministry, but after His ascension? Even setting aside the question of the development of the papacy in the early Church, it's clear from Scripture that Peter is meant to have a unique position among the apostles, having been set apart by Jesus Himself. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church. Why is it reasonable to believe that the early Church continued to guard and keep the deposit of faith handed down by the apostles, even after the death of the apostles? Matt and Ken look at a number of reasons why it makes sense that the Church would have continued to be led by the Holy Spirit, including the most important reason: the fact that Jesus promised it would.

For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they went from Evangelical Christian understandings of authority to embracing what the Catholic faith teaches about the relationship between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium.

Moving on from the New Testament to the first generations after the apostles, Matt and Ken look at how Christian authority was preserved in the doctrine, life and worship of the churches the apostles founded. Just as in the Old and New Testaments, the early Church upheld a threefold understanding of authority that included Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterium.

For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church.

Last week, Matt and Ken looked at how authority functioned in the Old Testament. In the New Testament we find a similar pattern of authority: the writings of the Apostles (Scripture), the oral teaching of the Apostles (call it Tradition) and an ordained Magisterium comprised of the Apostles, the Elders or Bishops, with the Deacons.

For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they went from Evangelical Christian understandings of authority to embracing what the Catholic faith teaches about the relationship between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium.

To better understand the Catholic take on authority, Matt and Ken unpack what the Catholic Church means by the word "magisterium," and look at the way authority functioned through law, tradition and teaching authority with God's covenant people in the Old Testament.

And while those who wielded that divine authority in the Old Testament were sometimes holy, and sometimes far from it, God never decides to abandon His chosen people due to their sinfulness and start from scratch with a new people. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church.

This time, they look at the kind of Church that Jesus intended to establish, and what St. Paul says about how that Church is supposed to teach, lead, and unite believers with one another and with Christ.

As Evangelical Protestants, both Matt and Ken conceived of the church as an invisible reality, made up of all who believed that Jesus is God, and came to save us.

But the pages of the New Testament, and especially the teachings of Jesus Himself, show that it was always intended to be much more than that. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they went from Evangelical Christian understandings of authority to embracing what the Catholic faith teaches about the relationship between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium.

The Catechism tells us that "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other." (CCC 80) Tradition isn't an alternative authority, but an authority that only makes sense in light of Scripture, and vice versa.

And without Scripture and Tradition working together, each believer is left to figure out for themselves what it means to be a Christian, and the natural outcome is a deeply divided and individualistic Christianity.

For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney

Kenny Burchard continues to share with Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley the story of his journey to the Catholic Faith. When Kenny, who had been a Pentecostal pastor, told some friends he was considering becoming Catholic, he was asked why he'd want to join a church that had gone through so many scandals. For Kenny, this was a question that hit close to home, because every Christian group he'd ever been involved with had gone through scandal after scandal, and split after split. And given his experience of those heartbreaking realities, especially as a former Protestant pastor, it was something he had certainly thought about when considering the Catholic Church. More episodes: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/ Our Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org Support our work: https://www.chnetwork.org/donate

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church. In this episode, Matt and Ken look at the necessity of tradition when it comes to the interpretation of Scripture. All Christians look to some kind of tradition when they approach the Bible, even if it's just their own personal set of experiences and priorities. But if we want to access the tradition that best interprets the Scriptures, we should look to the early Church, those generations converted by the apostles themselves and entrusted with guarding and passing on that proper interpretation. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to look at the question of Christian authority, and the role it played in their own journeys to the Catholic faith. This time around, they look at the way that the Catholic Church understands the role of Sacred Tradition. What is it? How is it different than the "traditions of men" that Scripture condemns? What the very existence of Sacred Scripture itself tell us about the need for Sacred Tradition? Matt and Ken discuss some of the ways they came to understand what the Catholic Church teaches about the role of tradition in understanding Christian authority.

For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley begin a new series on the question of Christian authority, and the role it played in their own journeys to the Catholic faith. In this episode, Matt and Ken look at the classical twofold understanding of how God reveals Himself to us: through creation in General Revelation, and more directly through Divine Revelation. And while Protestants and Catholics differ greatly on how to guard and interpret that knowledge of God, there are some surprising commonalities when it comes to what Christians of all backgrounds believe about the basic foundations of authority. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley conclude their discussion of how they came to believe Catholic teaching on the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.

Matt and Ken take into account some of the main objections that they themselves had to this "hard teaching" of Jesus, and look at the consensus of Scripture and the early Church that helped lay those objections to rest for them.

For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they came to believe in the Catholic teaching of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. In this episode, Ken looks at how the whole picture of the Eucharist began to come together for him as he pondered the weight of what he was finding in the Old Testament, the teachings of Jesus and St. Paul, and the witness of the early Church. It wasn't one single argument that convinced Ken or Matt in regard to the Eucharist; it was the accumulation of evidences that led them over time to embrace the faith of the Church on this issue. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they came to believe in the Catholic teaching of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. Taking into account a broad survey of Scripture and the early Church Fathers, Matt and Ken look at the numerous points of evidence in early Christianity that the first followers of Jesus clearly believed that in the Holy Eucharist, Christ is really and truly present in more than a merely symbolic way. They share what they themselves used to believe about Communion in this regard, and some of the thought processes that led them each to accept the early Christian understanding of the Eucharist. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they came to believe in the Catholic teaching of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. Matt and Ken explore the idea of the Eucharist as memorial sacrifice. In their Evangelical Christian backgrounds, both of them would have observed the Lord's Supper with reverence, but the idea of talking about it as a sacrifice would have been utterly foreign to them. They dig into Scripture and the writings of the early Church fathers to look at how they referred to the observance of the Lord's Supper using overtly sacrificial language.

For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they came to believe in the Catholic teaching of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.

In this episode, they look at the "Bread of the Presence," sometimes referred to as the "Showbread," and its place in the liturgical worship of Israel. What was the story behind this mysterious bread, and how did it point forward to what Jesus would one day be doing in the Last Supper? For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley and former Evangelical musician Matt Swaim continue their discussion of how they came to believe Catholic teaching on the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. This time around, they look at the typology of the manna in the desert that God provided to the Israelites, and look at the ways it's referred to in the New Testament, especially by Jesus, who referred to Himself as the new bread that has come down from heaven. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney

Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley and former Evangelical musician Matt Swaim continue their discussion of how they came to believe Catholic teaching on the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. In this episode, they discuss the defining characteristics of the Exodus and the Passover, and how Jesus both recalled and transformed them at the Last Supper. Matt and Ken look at how especially St. Paul and the Church Fathers keyed in on these themes in their discussions of the Eucharist. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Kenny Burchard continues to share with Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley the story of his journey to the Catholic Faith. As Kenny discovered more and more divisions among Christians, he became increasingly unsettled by them. He and his wife got into ministry together in the Pentecostal world, but their experience of everything from Christian radio to Christian bookstores and more overloaded them -- was it even possible to know which take on Christianity was the correct one? Could there ever truly be Christian unity? More episodes and resources: https://www.chnetwork.org

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The question of the meaning of Baptism has been a great source of debate among Christians since the Reformation. Even Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley in their previous Christian traditions, not only disagreed with the Catholic take on Baptism, but disagreed with each other also! Was Baptism always a subject of debate in Christianity? What did the earliest Christians believe? Matt and Ken look at the record of the earliest centuries of Christianity, to see what the consensus was in the Church on the meaning of Baptism. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley and former Evangelical musician Matt Swaim continue their discussion of how they came to believe Catholic teaching on the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.  This time around, they focus on the pattern of “miraculous meals” in the Bible, from the manna in the desert up through the multiplications of the loaves and fishes by Jesus, to look at the similarities between the way God fed his people in those circumstances and the way He feeds us today in Holy Communion. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series sharing how they came to believe Catholic teaching on the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. As Protestants, both Matt and Ken conceived of the Lord's Supper in merely symbolic terms; but as they read the Church Fathers, they saw it being discussed in much deeper and more reverent terms. Matt and Ken share what they found when they went back to the writings of St. Paul, to see what he had to say about what was really going on when the early Christians gathered for the Lord's Supper. For more episodes, visit www.chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

During Matt Swaim's time as an Evangelical Christian, and Ken Hensley's time as a Baptist pastor, both of them observed the Lord's Supper as a memorial event, often using crackers and juice, that remembered Christ's sacrifice. It was a solemn event, but not essential to Christian worship. Matt and Ken share what they began to discover as they looked at the practice of the earliest Christians regarding their commemoration of the Lord's Supper, and how the sources they found seemed to speak of Holy Communion as something much deeper and more mysterious than anything they had encountered in their various Protestant experiences.

For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney

Can you lose your salvation? Christians are divided on a number of issues, but the question of "once saved, always saved," is not only one that divides Catholics and some Protestants, but also divides certain groups of Protestants from one another. Ken Hensley, a former Baptist pastor who used to believe in "once saved, always saved," and Matt Swaim, a Wesleyan-tradition Evangelical who definitely did not, look at what the Bible has to say about the possibility of losing one's salvation. For more episodes, visit www.chnetwork.org/onthejourney

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley conclude their series on the Catholic view of justification and the Reformation doctrine of "faith alone" by looking at one of the most controversial and misunderstood parts of the debate: the concept of merit.

Do Catholics believe they need to earn their salvation? At the end of time, does God merely ook at a list of our good deeds and bad deeds, and judge us according to the balance? Matt and Ken look at what the Catholic Church actually teaches about the idea of "merit," an idea that is often misunderstood even by Catholics.

For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series on Catholic and Protestant views of justification with a look at the concept of divine sonship.

In some ways, the Catholic understanding of justification is like a person who owes a large amount of money being forgiven a debt; in other ways, it is like a criminal being absolved in a courtroom. But ultimately, it is most like a wayward child being welcomed back into a family.

This concept of divine filiation, held not only by Catholics but also many other Christians, is distinct from the Reformed notion of imputed righteousness; and, as Ken explains, was a key realization that began to lead him closer to the Catholic Church while he was still serving as a Baptist pastor.

For more episodes, visit www.chnetwork.org.

On the last episode, Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley dealt with how the Council of Trent discussed justification as an event. On this episode, they look at how Trent talks about justification as a process. If the event of justification (when a believer is baptized and enters into the family of God) can be comparable to the Israelites going through the Red Sea, then the process of justification (the lifelong journey of a Christian in relationship with God) can be likened to the journey of the Israelites through the desert to the promised land. The Catholic Church teaches that justification is both an event *and* a process, and Matt and Ken explore how the Council of Trent discusses salvation in those two ways. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Ken Hensley, a former Baptist pastor, and Matt Swaim, who grew up in the Wesleyan Holiness tradition, look more about how they came to understand the Catholic Church's teaching on justification and salvation. Is justification an event or a process? And what role do we play in our own salvation? Matt and Ken look at the decrees of the Council of Trent, and what they have to say about the interplay of grace and free will. Even the ability to turn to God and place our faith in Christ to be saved by Him is the result of God’s grace working in us. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org.

What is salvation? Is it something that comes from completely outside of us, or is it something we need to cooperate with? Or is it ultimately both?

Scripture offers many commands in regard to salvation: "believe," "repent and be baptized," "follow," "abide," "obey," and "love." Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley look at the totality of these statements and share what kind of picture begins to come together when these passages are taken as a whole.

For more episodes, visit http://www.chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Kenny Burchard continues to share with Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley the story of his journey to the Catholic Faith.

As Kenny tried to find his way in his new life as a Christian, the question of where he fit among fellow believers became front and center.

He started to realize that there were lots of different interpretations of Scripture, and lots of different potential voices to follow.

He began to wonder: with all the options out there, what kind of Christian was he?

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If the Reformation doctrine of justification by "faith alone" was, as Protestant scholar Alistair McGrath describes it, a "theological novum," then what did Christians believe about salvation and justification prior to Martin Luther's revolution of 1517?

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of what led them to see that sola fide was an inadequate and incomplete description of how God saves His people, and share what picture began to form for them as they began to dive into the Old and New Testaments with a fresh set of eyes. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to look at the Reformation doctrine of sola fide, or justification by "faith alone." While Ken was still a Baptist pastor, he began to find that the more he searched the Scriptures, the more it seemed that sola fide wasn't the best way to articulate how God saves His people. In this episode, Ken shares with Matt the seven key realizations he had along the way that caused him to realize that "faith alone" was an inadequate way of explaining the Biblical understanding of salvation. For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to look at evidence for justification being by the legal imputation of Christ's righteousness in the Bible, this time diving into the New Testament.

The theology of the Reformation, crafted and put forth by leaders like Martin Luther and John Calvin, argues that when God saves someone, He credits His righteousness to their account. Catholics, Orthodox, Wesleyans and a number of other groups of Christians believe that when God saves someone, He actually forgives them and empowers them by grace to truly *become* righteous.

So what does the New Testament teach about how God saves someone? Matt and Ken explore the evidence in the latest episode of On the Journey...

Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss the Reformation pillar of sola fide, or justification by "faith alone," by focusing specifically on the idea of the doctrine of imputation.

As a Baptist pastor, Ken held to the Reformed belief that righteousness was "imputed," meaning that God credits His own righteousness to our account, and the Christian then wears that righteousness like a cloak. However, throughout the Old and New Testaments, God is shown to deal with his people in terms of actual forgiveness, actual regeneration, and actual transformation.

Matt and Ken look at how Scripture shows that God's plan for his people is not to merely credit righteousness to their account, but to transform their hearts and bestow upon them the grace to follow His commandments and live in true relationship with Him.

Kenny Burchard continues to share with Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley the story of his journey to the Catholic Faith. At the end of the last episode, Kenny was a brand new, "born-again" Christian. He shares how in that first year that followed, his zeal overflowed in ways that ended up damaging relationships. He was passionate about his newfound faith, but without mentors to help show him how to live it, Kenny found himself in constant debates and conflicts over matters of religion.

Kenny shares a window into what that first year as a new Christian was like, and the lessons he's learned from reflecting on it over time.

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