MeetMyPotential podcasts was created for HIGH ACHIEVERS. High achievers who aspire to meet their highest INNER POTENTIAL.
Each episode brings to you an INSIGHT and a TIP that you can apply at work, or in relationship or in life. In these episodes Deepa chats with senior leaders around the world once a week or simply shares her insights.
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#120 The Limits of a Controlling Culture with Jan Gilg
Episode 120
Monday, November 28, 2022 • Duration 27:53
A key aspect of Leadership is realizing that you cannot be in every detail of a project for your organization. Instead, you have to trust your team to run experiments, fail often and quickly and provide you with feedback of what is working and sometimes more importantly, what’s not working. So, how do you let go of being in control of all the details? What ingredients are needed to create a culture of collective responsibility instead of control?
Today Deepa speaks with Jan Gilg about the limits of a controlling culture. Jan tells us how we can create empowered workplaces that build trust and growth for all.
Jan’s Tips for Avoiding Control Culture:
Clarity is key. Give your employees the freedom to make decisions. Giving them this environment lets them get out of their comfort zone and grow. Stay away from the “how”.
Over communicate with team members. Give boundaries and set up the right framework.
Fail often, fail early is a key philosophy, not only in the Technology industry.
Total consensus is not the goal in projects.
As a leader- the more concerns you can hear, the better.
Vulnerability is needed for all of these aspects of a product: running experiments, having feedback sessions and how things are going, and there is a sounding board as well.
Articulate a clear vision and strategy in addition to acknowledging nothing is going to be perfect. Create the safety to have open communication, including challenges. This creates collective responsibility in the system.
It’s important to acknowledge and accept the realities of the world and life. We need to give employees more flexibility.
You have to take time to create team spirit which builds collaboration and connection.
Everyone needs to feel like they are part of something bigger than themselves, make sure you connect your people to that purpose and vision which will unlock potential and motivation. This creates amazing things.
We hope you liked this episode! Let us know, what’s a piece of advice from Jan that you’d like to start incorporating in your organization?
Please feel free to connect with Jan and Deepa through LinkedIn to continue the conversation.
About Jan
Jan Gilg is President and Chief Product officer of SAP S/4HANA, which is SAP’s flagship product that encompasses ERP, finance, and supply chain. In this role he has global responsibility for the development, delivery, and product management of SAP S/4HANA, SAP’s Industry solutions, as well as the Digital Supply Chain portfolio. He is a cloud evangelist, a customer advocate and a business problem solver. He is based in Walldorf Germany, but lived in the US for many years.
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Visit the show website at (http://www.meetmypotential.com)
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#119 How to Stay True to Yourself While in a Leadership Role with Anjana Sivakumar
Episode 119
Tuesday, November 15, 2022 • Duration 40:36
Have you ever felt a disconnect between who you are outside of work and who you are at the workplace? Have you ever felt like you can’t be with the politics and the way restructuring and tough decisions are made inside your organizations?
Today Deepa speaks with Anjana Sivakumar about authentic Leadership. Anjana has real tactical advice that you can start to use immediately. These are things they don’t teach you in business school!
Anjana’s Tips for Authentic Leadership:
Authentic Leadership starts with knowing who you are and having a good sense of your personal values. You have to feel comfortable in your own skin. And this comes across in every role you have - be it Executive, parent or child, volunteer.
How to stay true to yourself while dealing with sensitive information at work and dealing with colleagues/friends.
Don’t feel like you need to stay in a rigid box in a Leadership role. Bring your personality to the role.
Being Authentic builds trust and connection. Acknowledge the uncomfortable or hard things.
Don’t go easy and blame another person, own your mistakes. We lose a lot of time doing impression management and stressing over these situations!
Communicate organizational changes and then listen to others as they go through their emotions.
We hope you liked this episode! Let us know - what’s hard about being authentic in your Leadership role? Do you feel comfortable enough to be human?
Please feel free to connect with Anjana and Deepa through LinkedIn to continue the conversation.
About Anjana
Anjana Sivakumar is a dynamic HR executive with over 20 years of experience across various industries. She has worked with C-suite and senior leaders in numerous global organizations, both large and small. Her experience spans various facets of HR, from talent and leadership development to operating model and organizational design to DEI strategy development and implementation.
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#110 Shift Your Work Culture to Embrace Diversity & Inclusion with Cheryl Thompson
Episode 110
Monday, December 6, 2021 • Duration 28:51
Have you ever felt excluded in the workplace? We are willing to bet your answer is yes. Feeling excluded can range from being the minority to not being invited to a lunch group. What corporations tend to forget about is that employee motivation and retention is directly linked to belonging and inclusion.
Today Deepa is speaking to Cheryl Thompson, Founder and CEO of CADIA - the Center for Automotive Diversity, Inclusion and Advancement. Cheryl is on a mission to double the amount of diverse leaders in the Automotive Industry by 2030. She offered great tips for how we can begin to change our work cultures to be more inclusive.
Key Points from this Episode:
A big challenge for minorities is feeling as if you are always being watched and will be judged more than the majority.
When someone doubts us, we immediately turn and doubt ourselves.
We can easily give up our own sense of identity to fit into corporate culture.
When we can’t be our authentic self, our brains don’t work as well! How much more productive and profitable would organizations be if all employees can be authentic?
It is not enough to hire diverse talent, organizations need to embrace all cultures. This promotes creativity within projects and the organization is able to keep talent instead of having a high turnover rate.
A change of culture within organizations will help build inclusive environments. First thing is to include yourself, take responsibility for showing up authentically. You can be the change agent.
There has to be a Leadership Commitment to Diversity, Equity and Inclusion- they set the tone and the priorities, they model what is valued within the company.
Systemic Change is needed for overall inclusion in a company as well. You have to look at how your company hires, offers benefits, and unconscious biases.
Start to assess performance differently. Ask your leadership team - What do you define as success? What would get in the way of someone who doesn’t look like you to reach that success?
We hope you liked this episode! Let us know in the comments - have you had moments where you have felt excluded in your work culture? What did you do?
#21 Limits of a Leader on top with Henry Kimsey-House
Episode 21
Monday, January 21, 2019 • Duration 25:55
Henry Kimsey-House today discusses Leader on top vs Leader in front. Henry co-founded the world-renowned Coaches Training Institute (CTI) which has trained more than 50,000 people. He is also the lead designer of the thought-provoking Co-Active Leadership Model. Henry shares what a leader on top is, how to stop being one, and how to become a leader in front.
What is Henry’s definition of leader on top?
[1:09] Leader on top is the command-and-control, traditional, hierarchical leader. When most people think of a leader, they think of someone who is separated from everybody else and, once they’re in that position, must continuously show up as the one in control. It’s where most of our leaders are these days.
The paradigm shift that we’re moving towards is moving leaders on top to leaders in front. Leaders in front learn how to hold a vision, see the distance between themselves and the vision, see the chaos that is in the way, and find a pattern through that chaos.
“It’s not about commanding and controlling, it’s about holding a powerful vision and being connected to the people that you are moving towards that vision.”
Once you start trying to control something, it becomes more ego-related than purpose-related; you have to play it safe, which causes you to avoid risks. Playing it safe and not stating what we think may be good for the organization will cost a lot of time, energy, and money.
What are some other limitations that Henry sees with a leader on top?
[5:27] Usually there are personal, internal limitations. They start not knowing who they are or what they’re about anymore. They’re going after something that is no longer related to themselves.
What do people need to do to start leading from the front?What’s your take on vulnerability and opening up?The first moment of vulnerability feels very unsafe. After you revel the truth of yourself to others, what inevitably happens is that such a powerful connection occurs that they pay attention to you in a way that they never have before.
How do you allow light to come into this dark place?
#20 You are a conditional decision maker, how to break free with Robin Coghlan
Episode 20
Monday, January 14, 2019 • Duration 23:17
In this episode we welcome Robin Coghlan, Head of Operations at Coaches Training Institute. He loves helping people in making better decisions and is here today to talk about conditional decision making. Robin also tells us about the system he uses to determine his clients’ conditions and how we can utilize it ourselves.
What is a conditioned decision maker?
It’s based on the idea that human beings are highly susceptible to influences from our environment and, therefore, the decisions we make are not always in alignment with what’s correct for us.
Some people are more susceptible to certain condition than others. Every human that is interested in self-development wants to understand this about themselves because we are that conditioning force. We can put more attention on areas that we are more susceptible to.
Robin works with clients on determining their susceptibility to certain conditions. He then explores those conditions with the client to see how they show up in the client’s life.
“Just because of one conditioning factor, you could end up somewhere thinking ‘I’m not happy where I am.’”What is an example that someone can face due to their conditioning?
Two behavioral tendencies of Robin are:
Not knowing when enough is enough.
Always rushing to free oneself of pressure.
Those two things are separate, but you can see how they play together. The pressure Robin feels from his environment is immense, and that is fundamentally hardwired into his design. Because he is aware of this, he can feel it happening day-to-day and then gets to choose. He can recognize it and then tell himself that he doesn’t have to rush, but rather pause and let the pressure rub off him. He can also form agreements with friends, family, and colleagues that help him validate when enough is enough.
How do you know what people are conditioned to?How did Robin choose a path of less resistance and what does he suggest for our listeners?
#19 Preventing burnout and Reengaging with Monique Valcour
Episode 19
Monday, January 7, 2019 • Duration 20:01
Monique Valcour joins us for this episode. She is an executive coach, a management professor, and a frequent contributor of Harvard Business Review. Monique discusses what burnout is, the symptoms it brings, the effects it has on an organization, and how to prevent it.
What is burnout and how does it manifest itself?
Burnout is an occupational stress syndrome that consists of three primary categories of symptoms:
Exhaustion: feeling that you just don’t have any more to give and drained.
Cynicism: a loss of meaning that was previously felt now showing up as a negative attitude towards your workplace.
A sense of reduced personal efficacy: struggling to do the core elements of your job which used to be relatively simple.
How can you tell when a person is in real danger of burnout?
It’s important to think to yourself about how you are feeling and what you are excited about in the upcoming week. If you feel like there are dreadful feelings or a lack of excitement, that’s a good sign that you have burnout. If you’re finding that you’re always tired, that may be another sign.
“One way to think about burnout is that your demands are outstripping the resources you have to meet those demands.”What are some of the consequences for an organization when people face burnout?
At the organizational level, we see:
Lower levels of employee engagement.
Lower levels of retention.
Higher turnover.
Higher manifestations of stress.
More absenteeism.
Lower commitment.
A negative impact on performance.
How can you prevent burnout?
Monique often does an audit that asks questions of an individual’s energy resources and makes changes accordingly. These questions include:
What’s one message Monique would like to share?Although careers are long, life is short. It’s always good to be able to step back and ask yourself “If the amount of time I had on this earth was suddenly much more limited than I anticipated, is this what I would be wanting to do with my time?"
#18 PART 3 – Why Change is Hard?
Episode 18
Monday, December 31, 2018 • Duration 12:05
In this final segment of a three-part series, I talk about the 7th and 8th reasons why change is hard for organisations. I share real-life examples from organisations who face these problems and provide advice to overcome these obstacles.
The 7th reason why change is hard:It’s hard to deal with negative comments
Let’s say you make a suggestion and people say “that’s too risky,” “we don’t have the resources to do that,” or “That’s completely unrealistic.” “Have you thought about the consequences?” You would probably react thinking “not again… Why do I have to deal with this?”
I spoke to a manager a few weeks back, lets call him “Tom.” He said that his company had a very inspiring and great product that’s losing money in the market every year. Every time he proposed a new idea, the team just talks about how the idea will not work.
“If you apply the same recipe, you’re going to get the same results. If you want a new result, you need to apply a new recipe.”
Every time his team mentioned that this was not a good idea, Tom was providing counterarguments of why his idea was a good one. He was looking at the positive aspects of the change, but his team was looking at the negative ones. Additionally, Tom was looking at the negative aspects of the old way while his team was looking at the positive aspects of it.
Tom and his team were having a completely tangential dialogue. When people have a tangential dialogue, it creates a conversational deadlock. Ideas don’t go further, and business results stay the same.
The first thing to do is to learn how to have conversations that focus on the same aspect rather than having a tangential dialogue. Barry Johnson talks about this aspect in his book Polarity Management. And before we apply the concepts of Barry Johnson we need to shift the mindset to keep a soft focus on the results.
Tom was focused on moving forward and achieving goals. Having a conversation about the negative aspects of his idea was completely draining for him. He avoided exploring this, and this caused him to also avoid the positive aspects of the current recipe.
The 8th reason why change is hard:People are doing a 2nd job at work
#17 Part 2 – Why Change is hard?
Episode 17
Monday, December 24, 2018 • Duration 09:55
This is the second of this three-part series on why change is hard. I talk about three more reasons why change is hard. Providing meaningful ways to overcome these challenges and with examples I came across with my coaching clients.
The 4th reason why change is hard:Change management bodies fail to engage in a deeper dialogue
Management has a very clear vision. They have the right analytical data in front of them, they see the capabilities, they see the future and make decisions based on these. This might be the same kind of change that the people want, but when it’s comes forced top-down, there is a resistance. This happens because the people are not treated like adults; their opinions are not sought after, and they are not engaged in a dialogue.
Imagine yourself with your fist closed and having all your ideas within it. Very often in conversation, we hold onto our ideas and opinions with our fists closed. We are afraid to open our palm to allow new ideas or opinions to come in in fear of not going in the direction that one would like to go. It holds us back from having richer, deeper conversations.
Recommendations:
Question the mental model that you’re coming from.
Be curious about opinions and judgements of other people.
Remember that the dialogue is always an infinite loop between the self and the other.
The 5th reason why change is hard:We don’t seek feedback
As we saw in Part 1, adaptive processes are a necessary part of your change timeline. Mindsets need to shift in order for a technical change to happen. For a person’s mind to shift, we often come with a strong conviction that we know exactly what we need to change. People can see us with more precision than we ever knew. If you can get feedback, harvest it, and build trust, you can shift pretty fast.
The 6th reason why change is hard:We reject the feedback that we receive
#16 PART 1 – Why Change is Hard?
Episode 16
Monday, December 17, 2018 • Duration 13:00
Host Deepa Natarajan is solo in this episode to talk about why change is hard. In this first part of a three-part series, Deepa presents the three biggest reasons why change is hard, provides examples that she has witnessed, and shares how to overcome these obstacles.
The 1st reason why change is hard:We have an Immunity towards change.
Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey from Harvard University have done a large amount of research on this. An immunity is when there is a part of us that moves towards a certain goal, and at the very same time, we are unconsciously driven to go in the opposite direction.
The first example from their study is with heart patients. They found that when heart patients were told that their lives were at risk if they didn’t change their lifestyle, only one in seven made the changes they needed. The other six patients had an immunity towards change. Some felt that if they took medication then it means that they are old; they wanted to deny that fact.
A coaching client, lets call him Pascal, had the goal to ask open questions and be more receptive with his team members. What came in the way was a very deep assumption that because he came from a modest family and didn’t go to a great school, he needed to prove himself. His mental model was that in order to show that he was a strong, capable leader, he needed to have answers, opinions, and speak about those in meetings. These things got in the way of him asking open questions and being more receptive with his team members.
You might say that if he understood and discovered his immunity, that knowledge alone may be sufficient. Sometimes just knowing is sufficient, but a lot of times we’re so committed to our old beliefs that it requires time, compassion, and patience to test out those assumptions. Pascal was so focused on his own opinions and was holding on strongly to them.
Immunity is something we can reason out with our rationale, but at the very same time, we are unconsciously so committed to that goal that it comes in the way.The 2nd reason why change is hard:Motivation and determination are not sufficient to make change happen.This collective finger pointing makes the one who is trying to make the change happen feel so low that they start having mental conversations like: “Am I capable? Am I not capable? What’s right with me?” They then start resisting the people who are doing the finger pointing. This causes a snowball effect of people who are blaming this person.
The 3rd reason why change is so hard:We treat adaptive challenges as technical challenges.
#15 Role of Dialogue in Change with Paul Lawrence
Episode 15
Monday, December 10, 2018 • Duration 17:10
Dr Paul Lawrence author of the book coaching in three dimension talks about the importance of dialogue in making change happen in organisations. He is an expert on coaching and making change in organizations
In a debate people toss opinions at each other. Skilled conversations are more difficult to differentiate from dialogue and that’s what we do most of the time. Two people come to a conversation very respectfully and respecting each other’s non-negotiables and the conversation might be really productive and useful. A full dialogue on the other hand very concise is defined by William Isaac as shared inquiry. It’s a way of thinking and reflecting together.
You often, make a choice before any conversation if you want to engage in a dialogue, or not. You choose to suspend judgement or defend, and if you choose to not protect and uphold a particular position or perspective, and if you choose to suspend then you are more open in dialogue.
What are the challenges to engage in a dialogue?
[3:46] Dialogue requires effort because we are programmed to make assumptions.
Few Mental Models of leadership that come in the way:
Over privileged positional power
Assumption that I as a leader say what happens
Assumption that I as a leader control outcome
Assumption that I as a leader knows all the answers
Assumption that it’s not my job to engage in dialogue with everybody
What is the role of Dialogue in Change?
[6:00] People don’t like to do what they are told to do. They like to make meaning by talking to other people. So if you give someone an instruction, they may or may not verbally agree to comply, but you can be absolutely sure that they will talk to someone that they trust to make meaning of what you just said and from that conversation emerges a new intention and it may or may not be what you as an authority figure intended. That is just how change happens and it’s very frustrating.
Can you give a concrete example of what dialogue would look like in a change process between people?For real dialogue to happen you have to be very honest...
Cheryl Thompson is the founder of the Center for Automotive Diversity, Inclusion & Advancement. A veteran of the automotive industry, Cheryl has over 30 years of experience at Ford Motor Company and American Axle and Manufacturing in positions ranging from skilled trades, operations, engineering and global leadership. She is trained in diversity and inclusion, career and leadership coaching and is Six Sigma trained and certified as a Black Belt. Learn more about CADIA and their mission to double the amount of diverse leaders in the Automotive Industry by 2030 here.
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Visit the...
Another limitation is that they live their life in reaction. They control or manage things based on what they already know, and they’re not able to access the part of them that allows them to step into the unknown with courage.
“If we are living soullessly at work, it’s going to show up in other areas of our lives. Who are we if we’re not living our life on our own edges, and looking off those edges to the next place?”
[8:37] The two things that Henry would want any leader to start working on are:
Having a really clear vision based on your purpose and who you are. Not just a goal, but something that’s coming from your heart.
Bringing the people to the vision. In order to bring those people to the vision, you need to connect with them through your heart as opposed to just managing them.
[11:57] Vulnerability means exposing the truth of yourself and your emotions.
A lot of the time, people think vulnerability means crying but it doesn’t. It’s about letting people in. You are more powerful the more you can expose the truth of yourself.
“We build walls between ourselves and others. The more walls we build, the more alone we are.”
[14:55] Henry says people need to ask for help. When you’re in a place of feeling like you have to be perfect, the last...
“If you do not face this and understand it, where this leads eventually is burnout.”
You may think this is common for everyone, and while that is a huge conditioning factor in our world, some people are better adept to working to that pressure than others.
‘We’re not yet fully aware of the intriguing uniqueness of individuals, and this is what I love about the system that I work with. It really points, in such detail, to the uniqueness of the individual.”
Over Robin’s years of experience doing many versions of personality tests, he has begun to see issues with any system that asks him to answer questions to be able to tell him who he is. He does not trust that he is always connected with what is most correct for him.
“If I have a conditioning element, the answers I’m giving in to any system are going to mirror back a report of my conditioning.”
The system Robin prefers is called Human Design. It’s based on birth data (specifically time of birth) and is a science of differentiation. What Robin has come to appreciate, through years of skepticism, is that he doesn’t get to choose what happened at his time of birth. There are energetic systems in our world, and this system speaks to that. Humans are complex, and this system has revealed things that Robin has not come across anywhere else.
If the resistance is so strong, then you’re going to be striving so hard for an outcome that is just not correct for you. To live a life of less resistance:
Become deeply self-aware.
Develop a community of friends and...
How well are you taking care of yourself physically, including your mental resources?
What is the quality of your interpersonal relationships within the team or organization?
What is the sense of purpose that you are enjoying in your work?
As an individual, it’s crucial to regularly ask yourself:
“What are the things I’ve accomplished?”
“What are the key objectives that will help move my work forward?”
“Do I have people I collaborate with who are energizing for me?”
“Are there some relationships I should reduce my exposure to?”
The most common ineffective strategy is spending more time working to get ahead in order to not fall behind on work.
TIP: Keep a soft focus on results.
“When you get too narrowly focused on the results, you fail to see what’s in the periphery.When you have a soft focus on the goal, you start to see people as people and you start to build from WHAT IS present rather than from how people SHOULD BE.”
A second job is when people are covering up their mistakes, covering up their weaknesses, and spending a lot of time and energy managing how other people see them. They may do presentations just to make an impression on other people, show only their good side, or filter information flow so that they have control over the situation.
Very clearly, we can see that employees are paid to do a second job. People who do the second job do not evolve because when you don’t look at your mistakes, you don’t grow.
“When we allow people to have a 2nd job, we somehow create a culture that is working around in circles, spending a whole lot of time and money not meeting goals.”
There are certain industries where, of course, we can’t afford failure such as when it comes to safety and the lives of people. Let’s say we’re not looking at those black-and-white cases; there are many grey areas where safety is not an issue.
Lets talk about Digital Transformation where Agile principles are used so that, we can :
☞Learn from...
Use feedback mechanisms like The Leadership Culture surveys or an ASK questionnaire. In the ASK questionnaire, you can have 3 simple questions:
What do you think is my greatest single challenge to achieve this goal? (Where “this” is the goal that you want to achieve.)
What is the one behaviour that you think I need to change?
If there’s one area that you’d think I should focus on, what would that be?
Fill this questionnaire by getting feedback from at least ten people. This will be much more precise than you deciding for yourself the one thing that you need to change.
I often hears statements like “you don’t understand me,” “I used to be that way, but that’s not me anymore,” or “these respondents don’t like me, and that’s why they responded in this way.”
“If only we can think of feedback as a gift. As a gift that is going to enhance our leadership ability; as a gift that is going to grow us; and as a gift that is going to help us to achieve and be more peaceful, we can grow faster than we imagine.”
Looking back at the heart patient example, we can see that of course they were motivated and determined to live longer. Yet, they weren’t able to make the changes needed.
The very same thing happens in organizations. When people aren’t able to make change happen, they start blaming each other for not being motivated and determined. People start pointing fingers, because when one fails to make the change happen in their organization, it is a cumulative effect on other people who are waiting on this person’s success to actually do their job.
“Blame does not help the person to grow, and it also makes the person resist the change even more because they have anger towards people who are blaming them.”
A technical challenge, for example, is that your car is broken, you need to fix it, so you call an expert and ask them to fix it. You need to find the expert, you need time to take the car to the garage, and you need money to fix the car. A technical challenge is when the challenge can be solved by technical...
So, authority figures who believe in the sanctity of positional power express frustration by blaming other people using phrases like resistance to change. Actually, to get things done requires an understanding of how change happens, and how change emerges from dialogue.
To make change happen, dialogue is needed and what comes in the way is, the way positional power comes into form.
The capacity to step back and see who I need to engage with in dialogue because I can’t engage in dialogue with everyone, is important. And who else needs to engage in dialogue with who else and see systemically through the lens of patterns that are at play.
Dialogue require time.
Sometimes you have to go slowly to go quickly
[09:35] Facilipilation is an example of how dialogue does not happen. i.e. when the leaders have a predetermined direction and facilitate in the name of collaboration, workshops, that is actually manipulation. It’s never deliberate, but it’s that piece that says, if I’m the leader, so what extent am I really clear in my mind about what is open for invention and what is not.
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