jD is joined by Mike Hogan from the 3 songs podcast w/ Bob Nastanovich. Learn about the Meeting Malkmus origin story while Mike shares his Pavement origin story and dissects song seventeen on the countdown.

Transcript:

Track 1:

[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50.

Track 2:

[0:02] So today we're talking all about song number 18 from the masterpiece Wowie Zowie. It's the absolutely gorgeous father to a sister of thought. Vish, what are your initial thoughts about this song? Well, you know, I was so happy that we landed on this as a song to talk about because I do love Wowie Zowie. I have a sense memory of picking it up when it came out i think the day it came out this is interesting it's a really fascinating song because in some ways it's super accessible uh musically uh it leans with the pedal steel and some of the other moves it leans towards kind of country music um i will say uh as i was pondering it i i mean i i know we are in a vacuum here of people who love pavement right and who love Stephen Malcomus, but as I was listening to this in preparation for our chat, I'm like, Malcomus is like an underrated everything.

Track 1:

[1:04] Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown.

Track 3:

[1:12] Hey, it's J.D. here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for Seminole Indie Rock Band, Pavement. Week over week, we're going to countdown the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballots. I then tabulated the results using an abacus and a four-slice toaster I had fashioned into a time machine. Now I pull the blinds of the time curtain. Yesterday is totally getting a do-over. How will your favorite song fare in the rankings? You'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week I'm joined by Pavement superfan Mike fucking Hogan. How the hell are you, Mike? I'm doing good, JD. JD uh it's nice to talk to you yeah it's nice to talk to you too I've listened to you you know uh over the years with Bob on the on the pod and uh we've been lonesome for you yeah I was uh you know in advance of this I was like god when did we start that podcast and I looked the first episode was August of 2017 um and we did 177 episodes the last one being December of of, uh, 2022. And I think that was the only one we did that year too. I don't know. I haven't, I haven't checked, but yeah, we were pretty, we were pretty active, uh, for a few years with some breaks in between. Um, but, uh, but yeah, um, it was fun.

Track 3:

[2:39] So will the podcast be dusted off at some point? Will we get the Pavement-esque reunion tour? That's kind of the open question. I wouldn't say no. We don't have any immediate plans. The last time I talked to Bob about it was probably about, I don't know, four or five months ago. And he said maybe after the new year. You know, I think we we really paused things because, you know, obviously Pavement was rehearsing and then touring and things were hectic. We actually had this I had this idea to do a different like tour diary podcast in every city. Yeah.

Track 3:

[3:21] Like, you know, of course, the podcast that we did was very synchronous where we would talk back and forth. We would play songs but i was i had this idea where he would asynchronously record like five or ten minutes about like i'm in kansas city and here's my experience with kansas city and then we he'd pick a song that was kansas city based and i'd pick you know but it never it never ended up working out it would have been fun maybe damn that would have been great yeah maybe on the next reunion tour maybe the next reunion tour but yeah i think you know i mean between that and you know he's had some life changes i've had some life changes we kind of just were like let's take a pause let's um maybe start fresh you know after 177 episodes it's like how many different bands can you talk about that you haven't talked about in the first 176 so uh um you know i think if we came back we would probably you know might keep the same format but allow ourselves the opportunity to revisit and almost treat it as a fresh start. Hmm. That's interesting. You heard it here first, folks. No promises, you know, but no promises either way, really. Right. That's cool. It's, you know, you're saying there's a chance.

Track 3:

[4:41] Cool. Well, let's get right into it. Let's talk about your pavement origin story. story? Boy, um, I think I first heard of pavement. Um, I wasn't early enough to get the first seven inch. Um, but I think maybe the first drag city seven inch, um, it was probably the first time I'd heard of them. I don't know if I even bought it at the time I was in that era. I was in college. I was at very active in the college radio station at Santa Clara University KSU. And I was a music director for a little while. And there, you know, obviously, Pavement was getting a bit of buzz. And I remember them just being this band that had put out a few singles. They were getting written up in zines. You know, there wasn't social media. So there wasn't any of that buzz at that time. And it was it was like unless you had someone that had a copy you you know It was almost impossible to even find in stores, So they had this just kind of air about them of like and and there were no photos of them There weren't even their names. It was just SM and spiral stairs, and it was just this like very.

Track 3:

[6:02] Mysterious like who the hell are these guys and then little bits would come out where it was like Like, oh, you know, one of them worked at the Whitney as a as a as a guide. And they recorded in this in the studio in Stockton. And, you know, the the the drummer is the guy that runs the studio. He's just this old crazy dude. You know, it was just like little bits of information would kind of come out. And I think I think really what kind of hooked me was probably the 10 inch perfect sound forever. And then by the time Slandered and Enchanted came out, it was like I was full on waiting for it. And I think the first time I saw them, the only time I saw them until the reunion tour a couple years ago, was in San Francisco at the Kennel Club a week before Slandered and Enchanted came out.

Track 3:

[6:56] Was released. And shit. Yes, because I worked at the radio station, we had an advanced copy. So I was I was like, vigorously listening to the record. And so totally prepared for the show. And it's funny, because I think it was written up in one of the papers, one of the San Francisco papers, because the buzz was already even big. Even though Matador was still a pretty small label at the time. It was like this local band, local ish band is kind of getting uh some attention and uh it was funny the show was sold out and gary was out front like shaking people's hands as they walked into the show like could not believe that everybody was there to see him you know he'd been trying for years and years to hit it big in the music industry and couldn't believe that these two weird college kids that came into his studio was like his venue for We're actually getting some level of success. So it was kind of cool.

Track 3:

[7:59] Oh, very cool. Yeah. How was that show? It was, it was amazing. It was a little, um, ramshackle as some of their shows back then could have been. Um, but I just remember, you know, because I was so excited for it. Um, I just remember being like, odd, like, wow, this is great. You know? And then I never got a chance to see them again until they did the reunion tour. Uh, it was probably 30, a little over 30 years between my first and second pavement show that's hey you know what when you see them before slant it drops you're doing pretty good right like i like i think that's phenomenal i think the article in the paper said it would be like their 20th show that they played or something like that so it was certainly one of you know because before then they were just a recording band and you know they didn't it was you know all of the i think the earlier records were just the two of them plus gary uh and so they they sort of had to figure out like how are we as a band when we're playing out live and uh you know it was early enough that i think that i was still seeing some of that evolution of what pavement would become oh that is so fucking cool i you You know, I didn't get on board until very late, very late. So they were already broken up. Like, yeah.

Track 3:

[9:23] So, yeah, I got on board very late. And it's just listening to all this kind of talk, which I've heard, you know, a lot. I've done a lot of these at this point, these interviews and listening to people's pavement origin stories. Uh, you know, there's a lot of people who came late, but the people who came early have really fantastic stories. Like, you know, the fact that, uh, there were a mystery, you know, and that's something when I interviewed spiral, he said they really, that was something that was really important to them. And in fact, he was disappointed when they sort of dropped the. Like he wished they could have kept going with the – I don't know how they would have done that. Played in lucha masks or something? I don't know. Daft Punk did it for how many years, right? Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Or the residents. I mean it had been done before. But yeah, that was certainly part of the mystique for me. And seeing them, like, wow, they're real people when I saw them live. It was like – this is the, you know, yeah, the reveal of the curtain.

Track 3:

[10:31] But yeah, and that was why when slanted, I mean, perfect, perfect sound forever, too. But especially when slanted dropped, it was like felt very fresh, felt familiar, but totally different at the same time. And that's why in some ways, I think my experience of pavement is just naturally different from somebody that experienced them later when they already had this full body of work. And you could see you could see that progression because there was just this question of where were they going and what would they do next and um i can imagine the ep that came after was like oh my god these four songs are just amazing incredible like like and and it was uh.

Track 3:

[11:19] Yeah it was interesting it was um a very exciting time and they were like a very important band for me in that, in that period of my life. I bet. So what, um, is your go-to record at this point? Do you have one or, I mean, I know that's a tough question because it probably changes week, week over week, but you know, just think about right now, what would you, if, if we get off the phone here and you want to just reminisce about some pavement, what are you going to throw? It's hard because, you know, I think as somebody who had that level of experience about like this mystique early on and the seven inches were and, you know, the early albums were really just so ingrained in my memory. Like, I almost don't need I listened to Slandered and Enchanted before our talk today. And it was probably the first time in a couple years that I'd listened to it. But it was like, I knew every one of those songs. So in intimately, I knew every note, every lyric, every, you know, Baba Baba, you know, like every little like, like, part of the songs in a way that the later albums.

Track 3:

[12:38] I'm not as intimately familiar with. So when I listen to a later record, it's almost like hearing it fresh. And I can't distance myself from my experience of like Perfect Sound Forever back when it came out, or Slanded went back when it came out. But that said, I think if I were to just be like, I wanna put on a record, um well i mean watery domestic is probably my favorite piece of work that they did but it's only four songs so it's wrong but it's so fast yeah it just is over so quickly and i think i only had it on cd i only recently bought the the vinyl of it and i didn't realize that the little like you know that little like transitional piece i didn't realize it was at the end of a song i thought it was the intro of a song because i always just listened to the cd ah and it just went i never paid enough attention to it because i didn't listen to it on shuffle or anything um and so it was almost revelatory when i got it on vinyl i was like this is like the way it's supposed to be like and then i flipped the side over um so that must have been brain busting It was kind of weird. I thought that was the intro to the song, but it was really the outro.

Track 3:

[14:04] Well, speaking of Pavement songs, should we get into the song that you're going to cover? Yeah, let's do it. All right. We'll be right back after listening to song number 17.

Track 1:

[14:19] Hey, this is Bob Nestanovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening. And now on with a countdown.

Track 2:

[14:28] 17.

Track 3:

[16:10] There you have it. Song number 17 is Zurich is Stained from the debut long play Slanted and Enchanted. Mike, is this song in fact slanted and or enchanted? Discuss. Yes, indeed. I love this song. This song, it really is. And it's sort of an oasis. I love where it appears on the record. it's coming straight out of the chaos of uh conduit for sale and right before the chaos of chelsea's little wrists and you get this like really light breezy but fast song i mean it's not a ballad it's not like here it is it is this breezy light almost feels like it would be.

Track 3:

[17:03] At home on the velvet underground's third record you know there's this mood to it that feels, in some ways different from earlier in the record and even what comes a little later where there's a lot of like fuzz and noise it's just this light little break um that's almost this perfect little slice of i don't even know how long it is but i'm guessing it's less than two minutes it's It's just, uh, yeah, it's, it's in and out. Yeah. It's in and out. And, and the whole time Malchmus, I don't think really pauses the vocals for more than a second or two. It's just beautiful little instrumentation with his vocals kind of just strung throughout it all. Yeah. I'm singing it in my head right now. It's right. It's, it's, uh.

Track 3:

[17:59] I mean, you know, and it's like the chorus keeps coming back and then he ends it with the, you know, like just it is a perfect little song. It's just a perfect slice of, and if I were to play somebody that had never heard Pavement, if I would play them, what is from a songwriting perspective, what is a quintessential Pavement song? You know, there are probably a few others that might come to mind, but this is like one of those like sleeper cuts. It's just such a perfect little song that doesn't get the buzz of like the Summer Babes or, you know, some of the more hit songs. I just I love it, though. yeah it's a it's a it's a really great song it's very different from the rest of the record for for sure it like maybe even it's like more at home on crooked rain crooked rain like you know like just sonically but uh but you're right where it hits in the record is is just is just right and And it's a refreshing little wafer, you know, before the next meal. Yes. Or the next course.

Track 3:

[19:22] Yeah. I think because of where it hits in the record, it feels mellower, you know? Feels in contrast to some of the other songs that come before and after it. What did you say is right before it? Conduit? Conduit, yeah. Okay, yeah. So it comes out of that frantic chaos into this breezy little, there's like the twang guitar, there's no fuzz, it's just this kind of light, catchy little, very short song, song, but that feels fully formed. It's not one of those songs that feels too short. You know, it just is like an idea song. Like, like there's a lot of those on Wowie, for example. Right. Yeah. Yes. Right. Or, you know, I mean, I can even think of like Emmett Rhodes lullaby. I don't know if you know that song. It's, it's, it was used. I first heard of it in, um, I think Royal Tenenbaums, one of those Wes Anderson movies, but, um, it's a beautiful little song and it's It's only a minute long, and it just feels too short. Zyrka's Dane does not like that. It just feels fully formed, even though it's only a minute in, I don't know, 50 or something. Yeah.

Track 3:

[20:41] What was I going to ask you? I was going to ask you if you've got a line on what it's potentially about. And if not, that's cool. I don't know. No, I mean, I miss Malcolm. This is hard. I, I kind of try not to read in too much to the lyrics because I also don't really trust the lyrics. Um, if you know what I mean, like if the lyric sheet, um, is often or not, I wouldn't say often, sometimes the lyric sheet, Like I'm looking at the lyric sheet right now that is included in the vinyl of Slanted and Enchanted. And the one that stands out is not necessarily Zerka Stain, but on Loretta's scars, you know, the, the line from now on, I can see the sun is always what I knew it to be. But the lyric sheet says from now on, I can see the slums. And so. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I sort of, especially with Mouthmasters lyrics, I try not to read too much into it. It's just this like, kind of catchy thing.

Track 3:

[22:06] You know, like a jumble of words that make sense within the music of the song. I call it word salad. Yeah. I call it word salad. You get a tasty morsel in every forkful. You know, there's a little bit of everything. There's imagery. There's, you know, these slant rhymes sometimes. Really cool phrases. Memorable phrases. Yes. I almost feel like, you know, I can't sing it strong enough is a great line. I don't know what it's about. Right. And I don't even know if it's about, I mean, the song is Zurich is Stained. I don't even think it's about Zurich. There's no other sort of mention of it. Yeah, I mean, right. Like, it's okay. It's not your fault. Cool. cool.

Track 3:

[22:57] Whose fault is it? Do we even care? I don't know. I just try not to. I try not to read too much into it. And I think one of the one of the things that I noticed and what I've always kind of tried to avoid when I would talk music, you know, the songs when when Bob and I did three songs, but is I would, I would try and talk about the music and not try to analyze the lyrics so much, unless there was something that really like, like stood out and grabbed me and resonated with me. Um, but yeah, I think, I think Malchmus is especially at this phrase, you know, phase of his career. I felt like each line was its kind of own self-contained mini story and often didn't even like match or connect or follow the line that came after it um so to your question what's the song about i have no idea that's cool well i'll pivot completely then and we'll go back to three songs for a minute how the fuck you know did you and bob connect yeah this is this is kind of.

Track 3:

[24:09] Obviously, I was a fan for a while, for a long time. And I'm thinking back in 2013, I moved to New York City. And I started working at a horse racing company. Okay. And actually, it probably was 2014 that I moved there in 2013. Probably a year later, I got the job at the horse racing company. And as I'm sure you know, Bob has always been interested in horse racing. And what he was, I was based in New York, he was based in Iowa. But he was the local representative for the Iowa racetrack for the company that I worked for. And so when I get there and I see, you know, Bob Nastanovich, I'm like, hey, man, what's up? And we started working together for work. And then I was at some point I was like, you know, I'm familiar with your band, Bandza, you know, because I was also certainly familiar with the Silver Jews as well. So good. And so we just became friends. I worked there. I think Bob got laid off because horse racing is not really a growth industry. So Bob got laid off. And then a year or two later, I got laid off.

Track 3:

[25:37] But we were always friendly friends. I'd consider us friends. We became friends, even though we lived a couple thousand miles away from each other. Yeah um and after i got laid off in 2017 i was like hey i got some time now you want you want you want to do a music podcast um and he was like yeah sure and so we threw around ideas of like what it would be about and how we would approach it what we would call it all of that and he suggested three songs and we just kind of bandied back and forth uh you know hey this is this is is sort of how i want to do it i just want it to be like two friends talking music and sharing music that we like with each other kind of like the way it was back when pavement started when you just couldn't find things online there was no online you just had to hear about it because somebody you knew was into it and be like oh you got to check this out you'll love it so that was sort of the spirit of it we started i think our first episode i know our first episode i didn't have a mixer it sounds like shit you couldn't really hear bob bob couldn't hear the songs um but i just left it up anyway because they were good songs and it just it was uh a good a good chat um and then by episode two i got i bought a mixer and a mic and uh we're we're off.

Track 3:

[27:00] Game changed. Game changed. And we, yeah, we were friends for probably two and a half years before we did the podcast. Yeah. And then we did the podcast for probably another two and a half years before we met in person. So I knew Bob and was friends with Bob for five years before we'd ever. And you guys did an episode together in person, right? We did one episode in person. Yeah. Okay. I remember listening to that one. Yeah. I mean, I've listened to a bunch, but I specifically remember that one. Yeah. It was sort of weird because we're doing this with video. I can see you, so you can see me. I can see when you're ready to talk. We didn't do any of that. Bob didn't want to be on camera. He felt uncomfortable. He's out on his back porch. He's just running around. You'd hear the dog in the background. So I didn't know when he was done talking, and we would sometimes talk over each other. So doing the one in person when we could actually see each other's cues was a little strange, to be honest. Because we had done, I don't know, at that point, two and a half years worth, probably close to 100 episodes. That's what I was going to say. I feel like it was in the 90s, that episode. But I might be wrong. Yeah. That was probably after. Because we did the 100th episode.

Track 3:

[28:21] Yeah, we did the 100th episode, which was the David Berman Silver Jews focus one. Which is still our most listened to episode. That was the episode 100. And I know we recorded it a few months before we met in person. So, yeah, we probably did 110 before we'd ever met in person. And the reason we met, the way we met, was Bob came to Portland in January of 2020 because there was a tribute show to David and to Silver Juice. And so Bob, so we, you know, I think there were a number of people that played, including.

Track 3:

[29:02] Uh, um, the woman, Rebecca from the Spananes, um, played a set. Um, there were a few others that played, but the headliner was, uh, just a duo of Bob and Steven playing, playing silver juice stuff, which, and you can find it, you can find the recording on, um, on YouTube and famously one of it's great. It's actually worth seeking out because, you know, it was, it was cool to see. Um but someone in the comments was like this sounds like shit and then bob replied and he's like sorry man i can give you your five bucks back or whatever and and then the guy was like oh i'm really sorry i didn't mean to you know it's he's like that is spectacular yeah so it's it's almost it's worth watching for sure but it's almost worth seeking out to to find that little nugget of, of exchange, um, in, in the, in the YouTube comments section. But, um, but yeah, that was the first time we met. Did you parlay that meeting into, uh, an opportunity to meet with SM? I did. Yes. So this is, this is sort of my meeting mouth story. Although I actually met him in the nineties briefly at Satyricon when, um, the Geraldine Fibbers were playing. He.

Track 3:

[30:23] He lived in Portland at that point, and I think I was still down in Eugene, but I was and have been good friends with Nels Klein for years and years and years, put out some of his records back in the 90s. And then he got into the Geraldine Fibbers and was playing guitar with them. They played a show at Satyricon and I was hanging out with Nels and Stephen came to the show. And so I met him briefly then in the 90s. um but then yeah flash forward 20 plus years january 2020 so that the the day before the show.

Track 3:

[30:57] That they played uh with a tribute to to david is the day that bob and i hung out we recorded the podcast that day we went and had lunch we had dinner i just hung we just hung out together all day. And then, um, I was going to head home and he's like, ah, just crash, crash in Stephen's basement. There's, there's two couches there. I I'm on one, you can crash on the other. And I was like, yeah, okay, no problem. And so, um, we got back there, I don't know, around midnight, everybody was asleep. We'd go down to the basement and, you know, and then I get up around eight or so to go to leave and um the basement stairs were right at the top uh or the top of the stairs was right at the kitchen and so um i went there was a bathroom in the basement i went and used the bathroom and i was about like putting my shoes on and about to leave and steven's wife jessica comes to the top of the stairs and is like bob's bob and i'm standing there, and I just say like I didn't know what to say of course I'm like uh, Bob's friend and she's like oh Bob had a sleepover and I was like uh yeah hi I'm Mike so um.

Track 3:

[32:17] So then, and, and so that was sort of a strange little, and then I got, you know, got my shoes and my jacket and I'm like going up the stairs and what at the top of the stairs, it's like you see the full kitchen and, you know, Jessica and Steve's daughters were in the kitchen having breakfast. And I'm like, um, nice to meet you. Thanks for letting me crash here. Even though you didn't know I was crashing here. here um uh you know like hey i'm mike and just like really sheepishly like trying to leave and the back door is right kind of at you go to the top of the stairs and to the right is the kitchen and straight ahead is the the side door um that goes to their their driveway and i'm like trying to open the side door and jessica's like it kind of sticks a little bit do you want me to help and And I'm like, oh, I think I got it. And so I'm like fiddling with the doorknob for like 10 seconds, which felt like two minutes. And then I finally got it opened and it was like, all right, thanks. See you later.

Track 3:

[33:25] And then later that day, you know, Bob said, come on over. We'll hang out. And so I came over later that day and then met them in earnest. And they were very sweet. She was very sweet. You know, like, I'm really sorry. And I was here and she's like, don't worry about it. And then Steven was there. And he was like, they were just kind of.

Track 3:

[33:43] Prepping for the show later that evening and um he was very nice he actually gave me he just finished reading lou reed's a biography on lou reed he's like i'm looking for on it and i was like yeah sure so i've got steve's steven's copy of uh the lou reed biography up in my my bedroom.

Track 3:

[34:01] Somewhere that's spectacular i think that's really cool yeah yeah borrowing books from steven malcolm any other uh chances that you met him or um yeah i mean i've met him briefly a few other times you know bob um would come to town when pavement was rehearsing i think they rehearsed for about almost a month before they did their their first reunion tour in 2022 22 um yeah bob bob stayed here for probably maybe not quite a month maybe three or four weeks two or three weeks and um you know i would not every day but regularly after they were done i would you know hang out with bob a little bit and we'd get some dinner or whatever and one night there was some band playing and um steven and jessica went and we tagged along and so i've met him a number of times we're i would say we're friendly but we're not friends i don't have his number he doesn't have mine you know if if i were to run into him around town which um happens now and then i'd probably feel too shy to say hi but um if i did i think he would know who i was and be okay with it that's that's.

Track 3:

[35:19] Pretty neat though i would say yeah you know i mean this is one of the things about portland it's like a it's a it's kind of a small town it's a big big enough city but it's also kind of a small town yeah well i want to share something with you because it's kind of funny uh you know it's in the lore of meeting malchmus i reached out to bob when i first conceived of this podcast in the fall of uh 2018 and asked him if he wanted to co-host meeting malchmus and this is the you know this is the premise and blah blah blah and uh i didn't have it all nailed down at that point um but i gave him the i gave him the highlights and he's He's like, he responded back and he's like, sounds fun, but I'm already doing a podcast. And I was like, tell me what it's called. And that's how I found out about your podcast.

Track 3:

[36:11] But that's also how Bob ended up not on Needy Malcomus, if he would have done it, if he would have done it. Well, so I apologize because I feel like I'm the reason why he said no. Although I would have to check. There were times, and I think that the fall of 2018 was one of those times. There were times, and if you look back through our episodes, you'll see big gaps, and it's often.

Track 3:

[36:37] Associated with life events. And my, my daughter was born in July of 2018. And I think right after that, we actually did probably a six month pause. Cause I was like, I don't, I'm working. And, uh, you know, I mean, I took a little time off, you know, I'm not sleeping yet. Like, uh, as priorities go, I don't know if I'll have time to talk to you for a little bit. So you, even though Bob, I mean, and I appreciate Bob being loyal to me. It was probably during a pause, and he probably could have said, hey, I've got the time right now. I am doing a podcast, but we're not doing it right away. That's funny. Yeah. So do you have anything you want to plug other than three songs at this point? What's the episode that people should grab of three songs aside from the Berman episode? Episode like what would you say is is a standout episode that gives you a real sense of what the show is well okay so those are almost two questions because.

Track 3:

[37:41] The standout episode of what the show is this the premise of the show was bob would bring three songs to play to me that he thought i maybe didn't know uh and might like and i would do the same for him um and so those some of those early episodes where we were still finding our footing were a lot of the songs where it was like, Oh my God, I fucking love this song so much. Like the X is state of shock. Um, you know, like some, some of these go between songs or some of these like old blue songs that, that just like really resonated with me in a strong way. I was like, I, you know, I don't know if you know this, but like, I want to play it for you and just get your reaction. Um, so, you know, I don't know. I, don't have the list in front of me and my screen saver went to sleep. So I, you know, I'm not even going to log in to figure out what some of those early episodes were. Um, but, uh, you know, I, what I, what I also tried to do, and it was never a spoken thing between Bob and I, but I, I was inherently conscious of the fact we were two middle-aged white dudes.

Track 3:

[38:54] Talking music and i wanted to make sure we weren't just talking about white dudes no it is very if you haven't listened to it listen to it but there are there are like i'm just going i'm making this up but like throat singers and or did you have a throat singer uh i don't know if we went quite that wild but we would do yeah it's everywhere though it's like you guys you guys covered the spectrum yes music all kinds of genres all kinds of countries we try we tried to go all around the world you know and we tried to also be very inclusive of all genders and you know because again it's just two white dudes talking we didn't want it to be like very focused on on like western western music you know that said we didn't want to make it so obscure that people would be like, there's not anything here for me, you know, like, we would try to try to walk that line where it would still be fun and worthwhile. And, you know, I think if nothing else, it was just, I hope that people came because they liked Bob, and they liked me, and they felt like they were listening in to friends.

Track 3:

[40:08] And they felt like they were one of of our friends that were experiencing this music and experiencing this conversation at the same time. Um, I hope it was more that and not like, Oh, I'm going to list, listen because today they're talking about, you know, Sebado or whatever. I'm going to listen because today they're talking about some band I know, and I want to hear what they say.

Track 3:

[40:30] I, I, I was, I hope we built enough of an audience that liked us and trusted us. So that's it. It's the trust piece. It's like you guys were sort of a modern day equivalent of like the record shop dude, you know, that trusted guy that, you know, Gary Gal.

Track 3:

[40:51] It's like, hey, I saw you buying these two records. Yeah. You're probably going to totally dig this. Yes. Yes. Tastemakers. I hope, I hope the unjudgmental record shop dude that wasn't like, oh, I can't believe you bought this.

Track 3:

[41:06] No, I don't mean that. You know some of those types, right? Yeah. We wanted it to be, you know, I also didn't want it to be a situation where I was, you know, ripping on someone's art. Or if I didn't like it, I would just be like, oh, it's maybe not my thing. But most of the time, everything Bob played for me, I was into or found some sort of way to resonate with.

Track 3:

[41:32] But aside from that, I mean, I'm not doing any podcasts. I don't have anything to plug. I mean, I think those that have listened to the show know that Bob runs a small record label. And back in the 90s, I ran a small record label called Little Brother Records. Records um you know uh i've got a few of the old back stock and maybe i'll send me your address i'll send you a little package of some of the old records i put out um oh wow cool yeah um you know and it's uh so but i wouldn't say i have that to plug it's just part of my it's part of my origin story yeah absolutely well i really want to thank you for taking this time with me today it's been a blast talking to you dude yeah appreciate it thanks for thinking of me thanks for including me no you're you're near top of the list when i started thinking of like people that i solicited to like on my twitter and stuff like that uh i i asked basically anybody and everybody but then i also had like the celebrity wing you know and uh you appeared on that list so i i company you're in.

Track 3:

[42:42] I don't know if I would even come close to listing me as a celebrity, but I appreciate the thought. In the podcast, in the indie rock podcast world, I would see you. If you want to say our top episode, which is the Berman one, that got maybe 12,000 listens, if that makes me a celebrity. I mean, you know. If you had 12,000 people in your living room listening to you talk, that would be a pretty fucking big deal. That's true. I don't know if I'd have enough food for them.

Track 3:

[43:14] I had a friend tell me that early on in podcasting. They were, you know, they were like, because I was like, I don't know. I don't want to put myself out there and see the numbers. And they were like, if you have 12 people that listen, like, that's pretty cool. Well, I think more than that, but the sense that you, that I get is that you approach it the way that Bob and I approached it. And, um, you know, I had the advantage of kind of tagging along to a, a, a celebrity.

Track 3:

[43:43] And so Bob's name helped bring in listeners, but we, we didn't, we didn't do any promotion other than maybe, you know, little like, like Twitter promotion. We didn't, we didn't solicit any, um, sponsors or anything like that. We didn't ever want to try and find a way to monetize it because if we were doing that, it wouldn't be what I wanted. Yeah. And it wouldn't be fun. It wouldn't be, it would be like work, you know, and I wanted it to be my release for like, here's an opportunity to talk to my friend about music. Um, and maybe, you know, maybe we will find an audience you know if you're if you're authentic and you're doing something for the right reasons often the audience finds you it may take a little while um but that's i think that's also about the the way i look at a lot of the music that i like you know bands like sonic youth weren't you know or or the x is another huge band that i just have loved for their whole career they're not worried about is it going to sell or whatever and they just they find the audience eventually.

Track 3:

[44:52] Yeah i would say i would say authenticity is a is a reasonable place to start from, yeah that's the best i can do yeah yeah hey again thanks so much and uh wash your goddamn hands.

Track 1:

[45:11] Thanks for listening to Meeting Malcomus, a pavement podcast where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you. If you've got questions or concerns, please shoot me an email. JD at Meeting Malcomus dot com.

This week on the show jD welcomes Vish from his own Kreative Kontrol, if you haven't checked it out get after it!

Vish discusses song 18 and shares his Pavement origin story.

Transcript:

Track 1:

[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50.

Track 2:

[0:02] This week we're going deep on Box Elder. How are you feeling about song number 19, Kyra, from the COWI? I fucking love Box Elder so much. It's a great song. It's one of the earlier Pavement songs. I think it's a very early Pavement song, which is cool. And it's one that really holds up.

Track 1:

[0:25] I think, too. you. Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown.

Track 3:

[0:34] Hey, it's JD here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for Seminole Indie Rock Band Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballads. I then tabulated the results using an abacus, a wet towel, and some scrawny kid from 10th grade gym class. How will your favorite songs fare in the rankings? You'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week I'm joined by Pavement superfan Vish from Creative Control with Vish Khanna. Dude, thanks for taking some time to do this. It means a lot. How the hell are you doing? I'm well, JD. Thanks for having me on your show. How are you doing? I'm great today. It's a little overcast here, but it's about five degrees so i'm gonna go for a walk later and uh.

Track 3:

[1:24] And that's a, that's, those are good times for me. Very nice. That's good. Going outside. Can't beat it. Yeah. No, you can't at all. Well, let's not beat around the bush, speaking of beat it, and get right into your Pavement Origins story.

Track 3:

[1:38] Talk to me about that, Vish. Well, I was trying to, you know, I knew I was coming on your show, so I figured I should try to ponder this, you know, and I, I was trying to remember. Remember, I think I first came upon the band when I read about them in Spin Magazine, like, I think before Crooked Rain came out. And I don't know what it was about that piece. This is right around the time I started getting to go to record stores. You know, I'm, what would I have been then? I would have been 15, 16. Some of us were driving so we could leave Cambridge, Ontario, where I'm from, and we could go to Kitchener and Waterloo and Toronto. They had the cooler record stores those were like uh college university towns so then we started going to record stores and then you start talking to the record store people and they tell you what they like and you respect them because they're your surrogate parents so somebody somebody somewhere along the line told me about pavement i i'm pretty sure it was the spin magazine article that i was i started devouring more and more music journalism and i think it was that so i remember owning uh slanted and enchanted and also uh the record store had the trigger cut single so i think i bought both things and i'm fairly certain about both things and uh i will say that that first single got me completely obsessed with their singles um because i think they're.

Track 3:

[3:07] I don't know, they're one of the greatest treasure troves of any band I can think of. I know you've probably talked about this with others, but I really value Pavement B-Sides. Like, I wasn't that surprised. I mean, I was surprised that Harness Your Hopes went kind of bonkers recently, but like, I'm not surprised. Like, Pavement B-Sides, I know some of them better than I know the album songs, to be honest with you. I just became so obsessed with how great, like, the the quality of their B-sides really spoke to me. And then, yeah, that's one of the, and then I feel like that was a gateway into like, what is Silver Jews? Like, why is this, what is Silver Jews in the pavement section? What is it? Oh, it's a, it's a project. Oh, there's Bob and Steve on the back of the album covers. So they're in this, I guess. And so, yeah, the B-side alternate pavement universe if you will really spoke to me and still does uh i find myself uh kind of you know mumbling song lyrics and and tunes and melodies from you know humming them from from all the b-side so yeah i i would i would position myself that way as someone who i get a little obsessive so it wasn't just the album uh the albums it was like i want to get all the singles so i owned every single.

Track 3:

[4:24] On mostly on compact disc when i was coming up of age and now i've got them all on actually you know what i ordered i ordered that thing that you ordered the box that i ordered the singles box that i have a bunch of them but i was like what the hell i'm gonna do it so the book looks good yeah everything about it looks good i love pavement so uh i just thought i would get that too and uh yeah i think that's pretty much it that's where i discovered them and then of course they blew up uh you know they're one of those bands that all your cool uh heroes were talking talking about before you even heard them you know so you'd read a interview with somebody you liked and they'd mention pavements you're like what is this pavement so really have a time and place for me word of mouth and then actually digging in i have still a sense memory of playing slanted and enchanted and hearing summer babe and you're just like what the hell so yeah i'd say that's that that that's that's got to be it i think that's it and you got to be there for the release of watery then did you as somebody who was like sort of ep and single obsessed did you pick that up when it came out i did i did pick it up i don't know if i got it right when it came out i can't say that for sure because i feel like i still came to them a little bit later um because i'm sure they were that article was 93 like i don't think it was about slanted it was just mentioned so but i got it yeah and as you may have heard me talk about it's yeah it's my it's like my favorite thing, really, in some ways. I love, and yeah, I miss Gary Young.

Track 3:

[5:51] I never got to meet or talk to Gary Young, but yeah, the drumming as a drummer as well, as a budding drummer, like hearing Gary's playing, that had a huge influence on me too. So yeah, that era. Put your finger on what it is, isn't it?

Track 3:

[6:06] Like, what it is about Gary's drumming. I love Westy. I love him. He's a great guy, and he's a great drummer. But there's something about Gary. There's something about the looseness and the showmanship of people like Gary Young. I would say here in Canada, we have Mark Gaudette, who was in Eric's trip, and his drumming, too. Like, it's punk rock, but it's a bit more technical. And it's precise, but it's loose. And it just has it. He's making an instrument. you know they have their own voice i suppose as drummers they have their own like you hear it and you're like oh that's that's that's either gary or as i mentioned mark for two examples uh or it's someone copying them you know it's someone someone kind of ripping them off so i certainly was of this learning how to play the instrument and getting into some really amazing drummers at the time uh just because i didn't take drum lessons i would just listen to things or go see bands and And certain people and their drumming had a huge impact on me. And certainly early pavement drumming, you know, I think it's an underrated facet of that band. Did you get a chance to see the Gary Dock?

Track 3:

[7:18] No, you know what? I haven't seen that doc. That's a good call. I've been rather swamped of late and I need to do that. Have you seen it? Yeah, it's really, it's, it's pretty fabulous. Yeah, I can imagine. You're right. I should, I don't know. I'm at a thing where I got to do so much and I process so much information and music and I can't keep up with everything. So yeah, I saw it come through and I was like, yeah, I will watch that eventually. And then before you know it, I don't think I'm alone in this where there's just so much stuff to consume, but yeah, good Good call. Good call. I'll try to track it down on, I don't know if it's on a thing, a service or whatever, a streaming service, but I'll try and watch that. Yeah, I think it is because I don't know how I would have seen it. I forgot. Yeah. Um, when, when did you finally get to, uh, see them live or did you see them live in the original sort of run? I saw them for the first time in Barrie, Ontario at Lollapalooza in 1995. This was the. Wow. Lollapalooza curated by Sonic Youth.

Track 3:

[8:18] So also on the bill was, it was supposed to be Sinead, or sorry, it was supposed, yeah, it was supposed to be Sinead O'Connor, but I think I attended the first show that she couldn't play because she was pregnant. And so Elastica filled in, but the day was like a mighty, mighty Boston's first time I got to see the Jesus lizard. Blizzard, uh, uh, Pavement obviously played during the day, uh, Hole played. Beck was on the lineup too, wasn't he? Yeah, I saw Beck play two sets, one on the main stage, uh, this was just ahead, uh, ahead of Odile coming up, and, um, he also did a side stage, uh, performance where I actually spoke to him, he, he came down and, uh, signed autographs, so he signed, I don't know where it is but he signed my Lollapalooza ticket stub and I asked him I actually I think I, I tripped him out a little because I'd heard that he was going to be collaborating with a Toronto musician. And when I mentioned it, he was like, oh, yeah, we have been talking about that. Like he was I kind of nardwired him.

Track 3:

[9:23] I didn't mean it was just a rumor. I just said it. And he was like, oh, yeah, we were talking about that. So anyway. Yeah. So, yeah. And the Far Side played and Moby played and all sorts of amazing eclectic. Yeah. Yeah, Cypress Hill was one of the headliners. Bob Nastanovich, when he was on my show, I did a little documentary about Bright in the Corners. And he talked extensively about their experiences with some of the artists and their experiences playing Lollapalooza. And Bob's amazing innovation of suggesting that instead of getting a bus, they would each get minivans. He got a great deal in some rental minivans and that way they could play and then just drive ahead to the show and not worry about the gear and all that stuff and and and they could kind of travel at their leisure and uh yeah anyway so Lollapalooza 95 is the first show then I saw them at the Phoenix in Toronto for the Bright in the Corners tour and then I saw them play uh you remember the cool house and the, sorry, for those wondering in Toronto.

Track 3:

[10:33] There was a venue and it had two rooms. It was called the Warehouse. And then beside it was something called the Government, a smaller room. And then the Warehouse became, it was like the RPM Warehouse or something like that. That's right. And then it changed names. It was the Cool House, but I think the Government was still there. So for Terror Twilight, as I recall, Pavement played the Government. So the smaller room on that tour. So I saw them there. And then I saw them on Toronto Island on the first reunion tour with the Broken Social scene.

Track 3:

[11:08] And I think that's the last time I was invited or I was supposed to go see them in Austin, Texas. And Bob hooked me up. And I think I might have even been able to attend the Austin City Limits taping. But unfortunately, I couldn't make it at the last minute. So that was a bit of a bummer. But I regret it. But, you know, it was weird, still weird pandemic times then. And I, I think there was also other stuff going on. So I didn't get to see them on this current reunion, but it still seems to be going as we're speaking. So who knows?

Track 3:

[11:42] Maybe I can see them somehow. now yeah yeah and we are recording this in early april so yeah there's we're not uh that's not a scoop people just in case you're listening to this in october and you're like oh christ they're coming back um they may they very may well be i just edited the bob episode and you know i sort of teased him because he's like we're done after south america and i was like come on come on yeah i'll believe you're done when i when when you're done yeah but um enough about me back to you uh i'm curious about the lola performance like so you got to see them in a government isn't intimate but it's nice um and then you got to see them in um lollapalooza in front of a big crowd what do you think of the the festival version of pavement well i mean obviously it's well documented that they didn't have the best time on that tour on some level uh in slow century there's obviously the the fracas uh you know uh where people are throwing mud at them and all sorts of a rock at steven actually uh you know i i was a kid i mean that was sensory overload i i was just going to how old was I? So 95 I was had I even turned.

Track 3:

[13:08] Yeah, I was not even, what was I, seven, 16 or something like that? I don't know. I was not an old, I was young. You were 76? No, wait a minute. Yeah, I was 17. So I was born, no, I was born in 77. So I hadn't yet turned 18. So I was 17. And yeah, it was just, that was a bonkers year, to be honest with you. That summer, I went to everything. I went to so many festivals.

Track 3:

[13:31] For all my bellyaching about my parents not letting me do stuff, they let me do a lot of stuff that summer so uh yeah i don't i think i was just overwhelmed by how many people were surrounding me and and and i got up as close as i could for pavement um and we got up really close like seeing the jesus lizard was a bit i love the jesus lizard already at that point i just love them and to see them was like they were larger than life and you know yeah for those who've never seen them or footage of them at that point, Yao would come into the crowd, you know, he would leap off the stage and crowd surf and all that kind of stuff and sing while he was doing it. So it was very immersive. And then Pavement, relatively the opposite, you know, they're on stage and the songs are great and they played well, as I recall. But on some level, I remember just making a point of getting up as close as possible and trying not to, at the same time, you know, be conscious of not bothering people as you move your way up, you know, because I was kind of annoyed at everyone running around and pushing their way forward and all that stuff. So, uh... Never made sense to me. Yeah, it just... That's my main memory of just, like, trying to... I was probably... For the Jesus Lizard and Pavement, I was probably... That was the closest I was probably, uh, to the stage. And, uh... And then otherwise, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I have...

Track 3:

[14:57] I have a real sense memory of the Phoenix show for Bright in the Corners for a few reasons. And I've talked about them with Bob, at least.

Track 3:

[15:05] Bob did an interpolation of a Cool Keith song, which I just, I was like, oh, I didn't know people knew about Cool Keith. Like I had only started listening to Cool Keith at that time. And he did. I have no clue. blue cool keith is a a really uh innovative uh underground hip-hop superstar he was in a group called ultra magnetic mcs and then he went solo as dr octagon and as cool keith has all these pseudonyms and uh to be precise uh and oh yeah black elvis like he had all these cool names so to be precise i believe as i recall bob was quoting dr the dr octagon project and he just did it in the middle of a song and then also the other thing that occurred to me and it's sort of relevant to the song today is during uh stereo when steven malcolm is saying the lines about getty lee and his voice being so high he shot his voice up super high like a comically high effect how did it get so like just pitch perfect super high i think it's i think it's documented in a much music interview that they did that day or whatever, like while they were in town. And then obviously afterwards, they interspersed some live footage of the band playing.

Track 3:

[16:26] And Stephen singing, you know, on this song that we're here to talk about today is so remarkable to me. And I remember that I had this sense memory of him singing that and thinking it was very amusing. I thought it was more amusing than impressive at the time. but over over time as i um have come to value steven's singing voice and his range and his ability, And just instincts as a singer, I view it as more impressive now than, I still think it's funny because I think he's got a comical element to his choices and certainly live anything can happen, but they were just, I think that Bright in the Corner show is the, it's certainly one of the best shows I've ever seen. So I would also say it's one of the, if not the, it was the best time I saw Pavement probably. Oh, that's a great venue. That's what I, that's, I think the Phoenix is phenomenal. I don't want to discount the reunion show I saw because I think with age and time away from each other, they actually have, I don't know, I don't know how many reunion shows you've seen, but often I find that these bands that, particularly for us, you know, the bands around in the 90s, when they come back, they're better. Yeah. They seem more at ease with themselves as people and as players.

Track 3:

[17:45] And so the absence, I don't know what it is. They just seem more relaxed. And I think when you're more relaxed, you play better. I think 20-something angst, we'll call it. I think if you're not relaxed with each other, you don't play as well. You're just a little uptight. And then as you sort of resign yourself to, well, not resign yourself, but as you sort of get, yeah, you let go of things. I guess that is a way of putting it. You kind of let go of any little grudges and you don't have that angst, whether it's your own or whether it's about yourself or whether it's interpersonal. And I think you just play better. So when I saw the Jesus Lizard on the reunion tour, having seen them several times in the 90s, I just was like, I think they're better. You know, they might be better. better and pavement as i recall from the toronto island show it felt good they played so well you know together um but up until that point yeah i would say that bright in the corners show i saw at.

Track 3:

[18:46] The phoenix in toronto was just like they were just on fire it was brilliant so yeah cool yeah well before we get into song number 18 i gotta ask you as one of the only people i know that has interviewed Mark Eibold, the reclusive Mark Eibold, how the hell did you do it? And that interview, by the way, was phenomenal. It was great.

Track 3:

[19:09] Well, that's very kind of you to say. I have to draw back on my memory for this. So the occasion was the Terror Twilight reissue from a year or two or a couple of years ago, whenever it was. Yeah, who knows? And like you, I think my social entry point into this band is Bob Mstanovich.

Track 3:

[19:32] Absolutely. So Bob is, uh, I've gone on record saying this to others. I think I said it maybe to him during our terror twilight discussion. Bob is the greatest podcast guest of all time. You don't even have to ask him a question and he starts. He's so funny and he's so frank and he says things that I surprised he might say. I love him so much and he's been very kind to me over the years as well. I first spoke with Bob, uh around the time of that reunion uh tour um uh and so what was that 2009 10 thank you very much yeah sorry i think the jesus lizard was 2009 so yeah i spoke to bob around that period and then we've maintained contact basically ever since that was for my college radio show actually and then so that was here in toronto yes that's right yeah well i lived when i was living in ontario at at the time. Um, I had a college radio show and would play some pavement and Bob was a guest on that show. And he's, and I probably wrote a magazine article for exclaim magazine as well. That's what I do and used to do more often. Anyway. Um.

Track 3:

[20:43] Yeah. So the Tara Twilight thing came about by this point, Bob and I had, he'd been on my podcast a few times. And so I just, I'm sure I went through the proper channels to get, try to figure out the interview and get the music and the, and you know, all the assets and all that. But Bob, I think I was like, Bob, like, can we get everyone? Let's just get everyone on the show. Probably like you have done, like you just, you know, you're, you're trying to do this now. You're trying to talk to as many of the members as you possibly can. Absolutely. And in the loop. So, yeah, you know, I'm emailing Stephen and I think I texted Stephen because, you know, he wasn't responding.

Track 3:

[21:22] And so we sort of landed on Westy and Bob and Mark and then Jesper, who was involved in the reissue for Matador, was going to take part. And then at the day of, Mark couldn't do it. He was in transit. He couldn't join us for the group call. But yeah, Bob connected us over email, I believe, and maybe text, I don't recall. And so Mark and I, Mark felt, I think, kind of badly that he couldn't do it, like that he said he would do it and that he didn't end up doing it. And uh i i assume bob vouched for me you know um and so that was kind of it uh really we corresponded uh he felt badly that he couldn't make the group call we arranged a time we had a good talk you heard it uh and then i believe i put it out the right after i had put out that that group call uh so back to back it was like pavement week on my show for terror twilight light. Um, so, uh, yeah, I don't, can't recall cause I do so many of these, uh.

Track 3:

[22:37] Exactly what mark and i talked about i think we talked about some of his, radio listening habits you did yes he still uses a radio yeah you might actually have a better perspective on it than me at this point because i just don't remember uh you know i jd i'm sure you're familiar with this you do so many of them uh interviews uh episodes you're just like oh yeah, i forgot i had so and so on the show what the hell did we talk about again i that happens to me all the time when i edit i'll be listening and i'll be like it sounds like a conversation between somebody who doubles my voice and my guests because i don't recall virtually anything about what we talked about well i remember realizing it was um a real kind of rarity for mark to do such a thing i think at the time um a sonic youth uh archival compilation had had just come out that mark appeared on so there's just a fair amount to talk about it was a lot of memory jogging unfortunately for him like you know trying to remember the terror twilight sessions trying to remember playing with sonic youth like all about a decade out from doing it you know or more a decade or more 20 years um so uh yeah i i he was very lovely and uh and forthcoming and um.

Track 3:

[23:59] I really appreciate it. I think I've spoken to everyone but Gary, I suppose. I never got a chance to speak to Gary Young. But in terms of the, I guess, whatever, core or original lineup, yeah, I've talked to all of them at some points in my life. And I hope to talk to them again.

Track 3:

[24:20] Yeah, I do adore them. So it's, yeah. You can tell. You can really tell. And we should have said this off the top, but Viche is, Creative Control is a podcast, if you haven't listened to it, you should listen to it. If you like music, if you're maybe a bit obsessive about music, Viche does a really phenomenal job of, you know, conversations with famous people. People uh for people who listen to this show you might want to start with some of the david berman stuff because it's it's pretty spectacular and uh and then work your way through the pavement but it's all it's all good from the stuff that i've heard for sure well thank you for the kind words and for saying so yeah i uh i do love doing the show and uh it has uh you know it's granted me access and insight, uh, to, and from people I really, truly admire and adore. And, uh, yeah, I marvel at, uh, what I've been able to, uh, accomplish and get away with, uh, it is, it is, I don't really understand it, but certain people like Bob and others, uh, uh, have a fondness for me and return to the show and all that sort of stuff. And, uh, so yeah, it means a lot. Thanks for saying that. No, no, I should have said it off the top. but uh what do you say we talk about the the song this week song number 18 let's do it okay we'll be back right after this hey.

Track 1:

[25:48] This is bob mistanovich from pavement uh thanks for listening and now on with a countdown 18.

Track 3:

[29:27] So today we're talking all about song number 18 from the masterpiece Wowie Zowie. It's the absolutely gorgeous Father to a Sister of Thought. Vish, what are your initial thoughts about this song? Well, you know, I was so happy that we landed on this as a song to talk about because I do love Wowie Zowie. I have a sense memory of picking it up when it came out. I think the day it came out. um and um obviously a strange sort of a strange record uh an eclectic record uh and this is interesting it's a really fascinating song because in some ways it's super accessible uh musically it leans with the pedal steel and some of the other moves it leans towards country music.

Track 3:

[30:18] I will say, as I was pondering it, I mean, I know we are in a vacuum here of people who love Pavement and who love Stephen Malcomus, but as I was listening to this in preparation for our chat, I'm like, Malcomus is like an underrated everything. I really feel that way. And in particular, I think he's a remarkable singer. And, you know.

Track 3:

[30:51] And this song, I think, exemplifies that. He makes super fascinating choices with his phrasing, I think, and just the notes he's going to go for on words. Like, I don't know how to put it. I'm not super adept at maybe talking about music on that level. But it's just very dynamic, the way he shoots his voice up and sort of speaks, sings one line.

Track 3:

[31:17] And I think aside from missing his sort of grittiness, he also is a great screamer, great yeller. He really is. Like Paul McCartney level dynamic range, I think, with Steven when he wants to. Like he can sing. I don't know if that resonates with you. Like McCartney, to me, can sing anything. He can sing a ballad. He can sing like a Little Richard Rocker and sound like a punk. Like it's bonkers, that guy's vocal range. And I think Malcomus is in that, totally in that vein. So he's not yelling on this song but i think if anyone is interested like this song is a perfect showcase for what he can do as a vocalist and before i go much further jd does that resonate with you it certainly does i when i think of this song you know the word i used right off the bat was gorgeous uh and it's gorgeous in a number of ways the vocal the melody uh like his ability as a songwriter. I don't know how much of the arranging he did, or if it was Easley who said, let's use this pedal steel.

Track 3:

[32:25] But nevertheless, it just works so well with the timbre of his voice. And it all comes together in a really lovely ball.

Track 3:

[32:36] Yeah, and I think the little contrarian aspect to, or I don't know how to describe it, this little element of, yeah, it's a little contrary, I think, you know, I don't think I'm saying anything untoward where there's an element of self-sabotage sometimes in the pavement realm where everything's going fine, and then all of a sudden, let's pull the plug and do something wild and nuts or crazy, you know what I mean? And then yeah so this song has this really jaunty country vibe and then it ends with this like, minimalist noise rock stomp damn yeah yeah yeah like it gets it suddenly becomes a little more punk after the sort of so it's kind of this and it's all part of this it's that end it has nothing to do with anything else we've heard no instrumentally nothing but it works like it works so perfectly and i think it's a way of being like all right i think i think we're getting a little saccharin here it's too gentle or something let's end a little more raucous and uh so to me i hadn't really pondered it as such before but between malchumus i think singing his ass off and and really showing his range uh the band also ends up playing very dynamically and really beautifully and and also grit like as i say there's some grit towards the end so in a weird way.

Track 3:

[34:03] And again i hadn't thought of it like this was a single as i recall um like there was a video for it and whatnot and they're all dressed up in like country western garb and all these sorts of things, but uh no it's a nice exemplification like this is a pretty good gateway in the pavement if you were like yeah listen to this song again you never heard of this band try this song just try it it's got humor it's enigmatic lyrically the arrangement itself is beautiful but funny uh yeah i i really think uh 18 this should be in the top five it's really wonderful wow yeah i would have it in my top 10 yeah i know you top 10 sure i don't know what these ratings mean i don't believe in ratings and awards but it's water cooler talk no it's i'm just saying as i think about it more first of all uh anyone out there listening uh once i dig into a topic i get a little excitable. So, uh, you can make the argument like, what about these other 10 songs? And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, those are also great. But this, this to me, I think, as I say, it's got a nice balance of earnestness, irreverence, beautiful singing, wonderful playing. Uh, yeah, I just think all across the board, it's beautiful. Yeah. Uh, well said.

Track 3:

[35:20] When you think back to buying Wowie Zowie, you said you got it on the day it came out. First of all, that's very cool.

Track 3:

[35:29] And second of all, I wonder, just to go on a tangent for a moment.

Track 3:

[35:34] I wonder if your penchant for B-sides helped you with that record. Because it's almost constructed to me where there's like a song and then more of a b-side song than a song than more of a b-side song uh you know i'm thinking like brink's job and and and stuff like that um yeah you know so that that would have really helped but what were you thinking the first time and this is asking you to really stretch your brain i apologize but what were you thinking the first time you heard this song on this wicked roller coaster ride of a record you know what it's i know this song gets come or rather the album why always how he gets compared a lot to the white album sure by the beatles um who are from liverpool uh and are no longer around but they were uh that album was um i think it's rightly regarded as this uh odd pastiche niche of sounds and ideas and somehow it it only coheres because contextually they made it cohere like it doesn't really make a ton of sense as an album but it's one of those albums where like i couldn't tell you what the best song on it is because i almost view it conceptually as a whole Oh, wow. Wow. So, there's some of it, like, you can, there are singles from it and whatnot.

Track 3:

[37:01] But I have a weird, this is more about me, I suppose, JD, than maybe most people, but like, I'm an albums person. So, when an artist or a band puts out an album, I assume, rightly or wrongly, in some cases it's not the case, but I assume it's a unified statement that they're making of a time, of.

Track 3:

[37:25] Rolling Stones, certain bands, you'll be like, yeah, this album is actually like odds and sods from the previous couple of albums that they just reworked or whatever, revisited. Um, and they still count as albums, you know, certainly Stones in the seventies, you can make that argument. There's a few records where, yeah, like just what I'm describing, it's an album, but it's really like leftovers from some ideas they had. Um, I would put Wowie Zowie in that white album category of like, it's a whole thing. Like, the way it's sequenced, the way songs blend together.

Track 3:

[38:04] As soon as you hear an artist do that, where the songs kind of barely, there's barely any air between them. Right. That's a sequencing choice. That's a mastering choice. That's all sorts of choices they're making. but there's then tends to be this coherence between them this isn't the case all across wowie zowie but there are songs as you know where it's just the next one just starts you're just right into another song um so it becomes a sort of sweet like thing all this to say uh i might be stalling to answer your question because i haven't listened to the whole album in some time this is going to prompt me to i listened to this song on its own and i will say it was a bit weird.

Track 3:

[38:48] To hear it on its own because i don't listen to pavement sorry as i've tried to just maybe exemplify i generally don't listen to um bands i got a friend pointed out to me a few years ago he was we were in a band together and he said yeah you once said you don't like greatest hits compilations i said i said that said yeah we were driving we were listening to like acdc or something and you were just it came up in conversation and you said you don't like greatest hits compilations because the context of the music is all out of order and i said right that makes sense to me yeah you're i said yeah okay i don't remember saying that sometimes i say things and i don't remember that i said them and i said oh yeah well i mean i said i said it and it stuck with him like he said yeah i've started to listen that way now because you're right like the context of an album is so important to it so when you asked me to be on the show and and suggested uh you know that we were going to talk about this particular song i just listened to it on its own.

Track 3:

[39:52] Totally weird. Totally weird to hear it out of the album context. So I think going back to my sense memory, I don't know. I mean, it starts with We Dance, which is weird. And then you're right. Some of the songs seem, I mean, to some people, they would seem like half finished ideas. That's right. Right. Or just like little jabs of things, you know. So you're absolutely right too, like Serpentine Pad, Brink's Job, those sound like they could be B-sides, but I would argue that the pavement B-sides are never really, they don't feel like throwaways to me. I agree. Sometimes they're a little looser and more fun, like things happen and that you wouldn't really hear. No I don't even you know what I'm just going to retract that I think they are all fully.

Track 3:

[40:48] Realized songs that stand on their own but yeah Wowie Zowie I suppose might have been the first sort of inkling that this band could do anything and they weren't afraid to try anything, I'm sure some people were disappointed after Crooked Rain Crooked Rain to hear this, band be a little more punk but also as we're talking about a song that like I say who knows I don't know I I've not really thought about this in a long time but I'm sure making the construction of wowie zowie and the sequencing was potentially a reaction to how much success and how they broke through with crooked rain.

Track 3:

[41:34] Yeah, I can get behind that thought because, I mean, it's almost outlined in Cut Your Hair, right? Yeah. That's sort of the blueprint for Wowie Zowie in a way. Yeah, like not deliberately self-sabotaging themselves, but being like, we're maybe a little too big. Let's do something a little less accessible. Like, let's do something a little more. I just want to be clear. I think it's brilliant. I don't find it confusing. But if you got into Cut Your Hair or Gold Sounds or got into that band that you saw freak out on The Tonight Show, you know... And then listen to Pueblo. Yeah, yeah. I think you're kind of like... Yeah. You would just be like, as a band, I doubt it was even conscious, but maybe it was. Maybe we should do something that's a little more like wild. And if that was the case, I'm not sure it was, I'm sure there's literature and I should have maybe revisited some of the liner notes and reissues and things to read about where their mindset was at. But, you know, even describing father to a sister of thought, it has that mix of totally, totally accessible. I could play this for my country music loving grandfather, but then it ends with like, Hey, grandpa, we're still kind of a punk band. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

Track 3:

[43:02] Oh, that's great. Going back to the theory of potentially sabotaging themselves, which I'm with you, I don't think they did it on purpose.

Track 3:

[43:13] I almost think it's like a sound and style change. You're right, Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain was so accessible, and it had a familiar sound. It had sort of a California classic rock kind of vibe to it. It crooked rain is i will interject only to say that i think crooked rain is also super weird.

Track 3:

[43:35] It is it helped them break through but it is a weird album like it starts weird it has like a full studio sound like it sounds like i know that was made in a bit of a patchwork as well but like it sounds more like a studio record um sure they went they went to a place that that it wasn't going to be noisy and hissy and ambient even though it has elements of that like it has a warmth to it but it's a weird and wildly arranged album too but this is even well coming off a slant coming off a slanted though it seems it just seems more you know readily available i suppose to to a wider birth of people yeah but what i was going to say is it almost reminds me of what sm did when he went solo that first record is so accessible and so poppy and so hooky and so earwormy it's amazing and then he did piglib after that which i fucking adore but it's so off the wall compared to the self-titled debut yeah and if we're viewing malcolm as you know uh obviously obviously the main driver of of their songs then yeah it's it's his whims and it's his.

Track 3:

[44:50] His notions for a batch of songs like you know i think bright in the corners is uh on some level it's the cleanest sounding pavement album but it's also the most esoteric and and you know i the songs sprawl and they're all over the place as well but it's also somehow more coherent and contained than wowie zowie like but but the songs stretch out that's their what did we talk about with somebody recently uh maybe it was with the pavement guys uh grateful dead type stuff yeah sure yeah like it it has a it's it's a little more zen it's less frenetic even though the imagery and whatnot is pretty intense and some of the arrangements are too so yeah i think it's just modes again this goes back to my argument i love albums i love knowing that we're hearing where a band was at, at that given time. Uh, and, and that, that batch of songs, however, like wowie zowie, however disparate the songs might be from one another, that's what they were into. Like, that's what was going on with them at the time, whether it had anything to do with external considerations or perceptions about who they were, uh, how successful they wanted to be. Like Like, that might just be all bullshit I'm making up. It could just be that's just what he had, what Malcomus and what the band had going.

Track 3:

[46:18] And this is it. You know, why waste it? This is, it's all over the place. Let's put it out as one thing. The next album, a little, like, I think it's, it's fair to say, uh, Bright in the Corners. Well, you know, maybe it's not fair to say, I'll ask you. Bright in the Corners, probably safe to say a more coherent sounding album than Why We Sowie. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's a more album-y album. Right. In a sense. But I also think Slanton and Enchanted all sounds like it's from the same expression, too. Sure, I guess I mean album to album. I just love the way it opens. There's a middle, and then there's an end. There's a finite end with Finn. Yeah yeah well i mean maybe i don't know like we we mentioned lollapalooza uh there was something going on in the in the moment in the cultural moment where you it was really cool to be an open-ended music listener it was really cool to be like yes we're playing with a folk musician we're playing with shanae o'connor and cypress hill on the same day bonkers and the jesus lizard like on some level that is a culture saying everyone is welcome every sound has merit.

Track 3:

[47:34] We're sick of the orthodoxies we're sick of there being camps um and so maybe wowie zowie reflects that too uh on a musical level it can be noise damaged it can be a beautiful if strange folk song, it can be a country song, it can be a goddamn screamer where Malcolm clearly loses his voice you know, on Half a Canyon or whatever. Like, it's.

Track 3:

[48:01] Yeah, as we speak of it, I love that album. And like I say, though, I'm having trouble decontextualizing this song from the whole. Right. And that's more about me. But if we really dial into it, when I say this is a good exemplification of Pavement as a whole, maybe it's a good exemplification of Wowie Zowie as a whole. It has that beauty and thoughtful lyricism where you're like, what's he talking about? What's going on? this is really interesting imagery. Is he talking about Corpus Christi, Texas? Or is he talking about Corpus Christi, the kind of event? Like, I remember just thinking right away, why is he singing about Texas? Like, I have that sense memory. And I have this song and some, I'm just a man. Like, I have just little bits of lyrics that are just always with me that I just hum to myself. And yeah, I, this is one of those songs where I just have sort of mindlessly sung it out loud to myself as i'm sort of tooling around my my life you know i don't know if you have that where you just have these lyrical lyrical fragments but this is definitely one of those songs.

Track 3:

[49:08] And uh i think um yeah it exemplifies both the band and the album in a really fascinating way for me cool well is there anything you want to say uh more about father to a sister of thought or, well you know i'm a lyrics guy and we didn't uh have a chance to get too far into it but i also i know that i mean it's on the surface it seems to be about spirituality and uh people's relationships to that but with malcolm is also you never really know um on some level i think he's spoken about this song and whatnot but um no i don't know all i'll say is i marvel at the guy and i don't think uh he's one of these people i don't think we marvel at enough as a guitar player as a musician as a as a lyricist and particularly on this song as a singer and i hope uh this isn't uh some people don't find this to be a hyperbole but you know i think we take him for granted as He's a vocalist, and this is a great example of what he can do.

Track 3:

[50:15] Agreed. Well, Vish, it's been dynamite to talk to you today. We went off on a few different directions, and I'm glad we got to do that. Do you want to talk a little bit more about you and the podcast? And I want to say right off the bat that I said it earlier, Creative Control, it's with K's, Creative Control. So if you're searching for it on the Google, you're going to want to spell it correctly. Correctly well thank you thank visha style of correctly well i will uh immediately say that this is a reference to a hot snake song of the same name creative control um so that's why i didn't make up the case thing and now there's like a fashion company called creative control and i think someone like fashions themselves a rapper and they call themselves creative control but they kind of show up and they don't show up i don't know what's going on but anyway yeah that's my show i mean on the internet they'll be like tweeting ramp like rabidly and then they just disappear. And then I don't know what's going on. Anyway. Yeah. Nothing to do. I, Hey, I copped the name from a band I like, so I can't really complain. Complain spelled with a K by the way.

Track 3:

[51:23] So, uh, yeah, I have this podcast and as we're speaking, uh, you know, it's, it's still going, uh, and it's more important to me than ever because, uh, it is now my main, job at the moment as maybe by October it won't be, but, um.

Track 3:

[51:41] Yeah, so all I can say is if you support the work of people like me and JD and want to support podcasters, crowdfunding, I don't know about you, JD, and we don't have to talk too much shop, but the advertising revenue is very minimal and it's honestly a little gross. No offense to your sponsors.

Track 3:

[52:01] I'd rather just not have it. Yeah, I'd rather not have it. But yeah, the crowdfunding and the Patreon that I have is particularly important to me at the moment. So I have different incentives and different tiers and all that kind of stuff, like pay tiers, and it's flexible and monthly and all that kind of stuff. So sorry to make this about the money. We've already talked about some of the content or whatever, like the people I talked to. Yeah, I'm proud of it. It seems to be relentless. It's never going to stop unless I do and stop making it. That sounded morbid. uh by the way if i die the show will likely die too i i just want to be clear about that but no i i love doing the show it's afforded me um some wonderful experiences and both in the conversations and then just from people like you jd reaching out wanting to talk i mean it means a lot to me so thank you for giving me a time to some time to plug and thank you for having me on this wonderful show of yours and for the the lovely conversation it means a lot yeah for me Me too. Thank you so much. All right, everybody, that's what we've got today. So be cool. Make sure you're safe and wash your goddamn hands.

Track 1:

[53:15] Thanks for listening to Meeting Malcolmists, a pavement podcast where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you. If you've got questions or concerns, please shoot me an email. JD at MeetingMalcolmists.com. You.

We're taking a brief break from counting down the Top 50 Pavement songs this week. Instead, we offer you PodList IV.V thanks for all of submissions and a special hat tip to Tim from Portland for coming up with the track listing,

Track Listing:

Shady Lane - Lonely Penguin

Painted Soldiers - Malkralph

Passat Dream - CARP Recordings

Zurich is Stained - Sam Lambson

Perfect Depth - Scouting for Cuppas

Shoot the Singer - Copeto

Haunt you Down

Heaven is a Truck - Dark Shandy

Shady Lane - Strong Computer

Summer Babe - Forearms

Type Slowly - Marchica

My Radio - Negative Players

Box Elder - Christopher Catin

Fin - S.W.

jD is back with another track from the Shady Lane EP, Cherry Area.

jD is back after taking a week off to recuperate from Fin! Join him this week as he catches up on things and listens to Slowly Typed. 

jD is back with his take on the Brighten the Corners album-closing track, Fin. 

jD is back at it discussing life, reading emails, and jamming out to Starlings of the Slipstream. 

jD is back and he is digging on the Spiral jam, Passat Dream.

jD is back and he is making a wish.

It's 2021 and jD is FINALLY back. Check out today's episode where he waxes on about his love for Blue Hawaiian.

It's Pavement Streaming Day!

jD is back. Wait, isn't that enough?

jD is back and this week he's revealing why Type Slowly was his first favorite Pavement song!

This week on the pod. jD welcomes his buddy, Jeremy from Niagara Falls on to discuss his Pavement origin story and reveal song 26!

Transcript:

Track 2:

[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50.

Track 1:

[0:02] Stephen, what are your initial thoughts about this song, The Hex? The Hex, well, it's a really cool song. I think it's completely different to anything else that Pavement does. I think it's very unique. It's got a style which isn't really there in any... I can't think of any other song that looks like it.

Track 2:

[0:19] Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown.

Track 4:

[0:25] Hey, it's JD here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown. For seminal indie rock band, Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballads. I then tabulated the results using an abacus and a girl named Shannon that might have played bass in an indie rock band. Sigh. So there's that. This week, I'm joined by Pavement superfan, Jeremy from Niagara Falls. How's it going, motherfucker?

Track 3:

[0:54] It's hot. It's hot.

Track 4:

[0:56] It's really hot.

Track 3:

[0:58] It's been hot all week. Yeah. So sorry if there's fan noises in the background. They're here to cheer me on.

Track 4:

[1:04] Yes, of course they are. And that's very good that they are doing that for you because it will give you adrenaline and strength that you need and require to get through this next question. Jeremy, from the Falls, what is your pavement origin story?

Track 3:

[1:20] Story um my origin story for the band pavement is a little um stranger than most i i did not come to them by way of their music i i came to them by way of uh discussions about just how cool their uh their albums the the song names were, so i before i ever heard a pavement track which was years uh uh it was it was uh i had a friend who was in a band named uh cindy and they before they were called cindy they they were racking their brains about what they wanted to call themselves and we just got in this deep discussion one night i have heard we started talking about i don't think i've heard of king cobb steely, There's probably a good, I bet a good amount of this audience would really dig King Cub Steely because it's kind of in the same vein. But they had awesome song names.

Track 3:

[2:21] Luckily, I keep my feathers numbered for just such an emergency. That's a song name, Time Equals Money and Money Equals Pizza and Therefore Time Equals Pizza. Just stuff like that. And we got talking about it. And I was like, yeah, that's really cool. and we're talking about the band Head. Lowercase and an uppercase. Head with a lowercase h. That's right. And an uppercase, yeah, just because it was the 90s. And then my friend turned to me, he's like, I just wish that I could have an album title as good as Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain. And he just, he went on for like half an hour on that. I was like, that is a really cool album title and who is this band? And he's like, Pavement, check them out. And of course, being the 90s, I mean, being dirt poor, I couldn't. That's right. That's the only way you could do it. I couldn't purchase an album. Because they weren't being played on the radio.

Track 3:

[3:15] Well. That's right. And it was pre-internet. And yeah, they weren't being played on the radio. But, and this is, I like hearing the stories of people out here saying like, yeah, my first experience was like I got onto a torrent site and I ripped all their albums over the course of like a week or however long it used to take. But before that we used to have this thing and it doesn't exist anymore rarely does that's right of uh compilations you remember yeah and there was a big one in the 90s it was really big because of the secret hidden track that i think everyone only bought it for the secret hidden track it was called no alternative and nirvana did uh of uh at the very end wasn't listed everyone who was there It wasn't listed, but they did – it's sappy, but it's also called Verse Course Verse. It was an unreleased track, and it kicked. It was so good. But also on that album was Matthew Sweet, Goo Goo Dolls, and Pavement did Unseen Power and Picket Fence. And who was the second one you named? Goo Goo Dolls. Yeah. Goo Goo Dolls? You know, like rather funky band until, you know, Twister. No, it's not Twister. Until that Twister song.

Track 3:

[4:41] They did a song on the Twister set. No, it was the Asteroid one. No, it wasn't the Asteroid one. Fuck. Oh, yeah. Dude. It's called Angel or something like that. No, they did a song on the Twister set. It's like Alanis Morissette did a song. On the record, you came uninvited. Yeah, anyway, this is riveting conversation for somebody who tuned in for Pavement. I know.

Track 3:

[5:13] Beastie boys was also on the alternate and breeders did a really good live live track but but really it was like you could get uh like that was if you did not have a lot of money and you wanted to hear and this is backwards thinking because nowadays you'd be like why would you buy a whole album for one song well everybody did everybody bought it for that nirvana song and uh and then you got a little a little sampler of all these other bands that you could get into And that was my first. Hold on, let's talk about this for a second. So what did you think of On Scene Power? Yeah. It was good. And in comparison to everything else on the album, it's like, oh, this is top ten. This is really fresh and inviting. And I dig the sound. It was kind of rare. It wasn't overproduced. and it didn't have that, you know, that pastina. Am I using that word correctly? You know, patina. Sorry, patina. It's fucking boiling. It's hot. Did I mention it's hot? It's like 55 degrees in Canadian. 55? Celsius. But yeah, I think it's like 40. I was like 55. Your skin would be melting.

Track 3:

[6:35] Anything after 35, I'm like, it's all the same. I like the heat, but it's not like this muddiness. Yeah. I can't handle it. Really? Yeah, it's the thing. It's not the heat, it's the humidity. No, oven's dry heat. Anyway. Yeah. Again. But yeah, no, I really, I like the sound. And I was also big into Sonic Youth, but I had a bit of a bone to pick with Sonic Youth because their stuff never really seemed to get me to the place where I was like, yeah. Yeah and it felt like pavement was like they got it it was it was kind of this it's like a visceral, sort of song yeah but it's it's it rocks i totally know what you mean you know i mean yeah i've been i've been uh nose deep in in pavement's catalog for almost five years now so, like i mean obviously i enjoyed it prior to that but you know just looking at it week after week week after week you know it's it's been asked me to name a fucking song um title though and i'm usually stumped or or where it falls on a record and there's people that will be able to do oh yes it's right after this and before this and it's like i just can't do that i'm just because that's part of the culture though that's part of like the like we when we lost physical media, like it's like remembering your best friend's phone number do you even know it now i don't Oh, I know my wife's. I don't know my wife's. I don't know my kids.

Track 3:

[8:03] Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so that, like that compilation. And then you'd think I would have rushed out and I would have bought, you know, a pavement album, but I didn't because a scant few years later, the Brain Candy soundtrack came out and being the massive kids of all fan I was. Okay. All right. Is R. I was and I still am. Yeah. And will continue to be. And you know who was on that soundtrack oh matthew sweet fuck me really, he followed yeah he follows you around doesn't he yeah but pavement like painted soldiers is, like it's in my top five songs it's in my top 15 for sure no my top 10 and it's the best spiral There is. Other than the unreleased Preston School of Industry. For sale, the Preston School of Industry. But yeah.

Track 3:

[9:09] And another breakout track on a soundtrack album that has like... They are? Yeah. They play Butts Wiglin'. Yeah. They might be Giants, I think, did a track. Uh, stereo lab and like a real, Oh, and of course the odds were on there, but yeah, it's kind of five. I think there was even a GBV guy by voices song on there. I think that might, it was by first exposure to guided by voices. I got into a lot of music through compilations, something that does not exist. And I wonder how we can rectify this. Yeah.

Track 3:

[9:57] Well, we have to change the industry one person at a time. Starting at this moment in time. And this is the... It's 66 degrees. Good things are forged in heat. This is... Hey, listen. This is the closest I've ever recorded an episode to drop date. Like, most everything else is done. Oh, yeah? I did it in the spring. You know? So, this is... What is the date? It's June 20th. And this goes out on the 28th. Yeah. Or whatever next Monday is. Wow. Look at me. Look at me knowing fucking calendars. 24th. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. Sure is. Yeah. It's sooner than you think. That's right. No. Into that editing bay. This one doesn't get edited. This podcast doesn't. But yeah. Oh no. All my secrets. Okay. Back to the matter at hand here. There's a lot of... So if you haven't noticed, Jeremy and I are buddies and we're doing some catch up at the same time that we're um that we're doing this so that's why we're getting a little distracted i apologize for that and i hope this is acceptable for your pavement listening uh enjoyment yeah it's a forgiving crowd have you ever listened to the episode of meeting malchus called uh hate mail.

Track 3:

[11:17] Oh you should look that i haven't heard that one i got a hate mail letter oh yeah i just decided to do an episode on it because it is like a screed it is like it is like martin luther knocked you know nailed something to my door you know and it was like it was like oh deep cut wow yeah now it was type was it written or was it typed oh then you know it's serious yeah listen to that one oh wow if you're just getting into to this because of the top 10. There's a whole other podcast out there where I go through each of the songs. It's called Meeting Malchmus. That's the feed that you're on right now. And there's lots of good... I can only hope that this generates at least one more hit. It might. So from there, you finally buy a record? Or do you get into the torrents?

Track 3:

[12:11] I bought, oh, and this is shameful, and now I wish you do edit it. I bought Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain through another form of dead media, the Columbia House Records Club. Dude, Columbia House was money. It was so good. It was so good. It was. 12 CDs for a penny? You're paying 30 bucks afterwards, but hey. And it was one of those auto ship deals. That's where they got you. That's where they got you on the lazy. It just shows up, right? Because it was $30 a hit, and you would be like, fuck. But if you played your cards right, you won. The house did not always win, but they must have won enough.

Track 3:

[12:51] Yeah. I mean, and you could send them back and say, you know what? Liz Fair just isn't my cup of tea. I'm going to exile Guyville. Yeah, this one, I think it was her follow-up. I was like, eh. Never sent me Matthew Sweet. So Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain. Do you know where the title comes from? It comes from, apparently, it comes from Purple Rain, Purple Rain. And Stephen just liked the rhythm of that. Or it may have even been David Berman who suggested it. And, yeah.

Track 3:

[13:26] If I'm wrong, shoot me an email. JD at meetingmalchmas.com. Would love to hear from you. So you put that one on the old CD player, I'm guessing. Not a turntable. about this point and yeah it starts with silent and that song just melts your brain like right off the bat it is i i that album for me is like a textbook like this is how you start an album like this series of songs like this is how you do it this is how you you break it in so you lay the frown the foundation for the listening experience you're about to undertake and man i yeah i listened to that album a lot. It's a masterpiece for sure. I will fully admit, I thought he was saying Silent Kit for the longest time. I thought it was about drummers. Well, nobody really knows. It's got multiple titles. People will say Silence Kid, and people will say Silent Kid. People will say Silent Kit, and people will say Silence Kit. So I think on the liner notes, it's Silence Kid. So, yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Did you ever get a chance to see them live?

Track 3:

[14:45] So, jury's out on that. It was the 90s. I was young. I got around a lot. And a friend of mine was like, no, I don't think we do. We did see them. And I was like, I distinctly remember being at, like, the Cool House. Did you go to Lollapalooza in 95? At one point.

Track 3:

[15:08] Okay. No, I've never been to a Lollapalooza. I was just going to say, because they played that, and that might be something that you saw and forgot. Because I can't imagine, you are going to generate some hate mail. That you saw them live and you don't fucking know that you saw them live? What kind of fucking planet is this? This is so different than the other interviews I've done for this program. I know. I know. But you know what? If I did, I enjoyed it. Well, there's that. that and if i didn't then you know so there's that i i guess i never will do we want i mean somebody had to somebody had to remind me that i've seen wean like several times and somebody was like you know i was like oh i wish i could i wish i could see wean and they're like you've seen like eight times like oh that's oh yeah that's a really shitty superpower to have dude, i know i know i have a very bad short-term memory but my long-term memory is near You're fucking impeccable still. Well, see, my short-term memory was bad at the time. You didn't, yeah. See, I don't create new memories. Yeah. I have a very difficult time creating new memories. Yeah. I still have them, but yeah. Oh. Yeah. It's ever since I got zapped. Okay. What do you say we flip the record over and start talking about song number 26? You up for that? Yeah. Let's do it. We'll be right back after this.

Track 2:

[16:34] Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening, and now on with a countdown. 26!

Track 3:

[21:05] This week, we are celebrating song number 26, Fight This Generation. What do you think of this one, Jeremy from the Falls? This is probably, it bridges the best run, I think, that Pavement has on any album, starting with AT&T, going right through to the end of Wowie Zowie. I started AT&T, I just listen to these tracks over and over again. And Fight This Generation is definitely a staple in that run. Yeah, I think so. And it's a staple of their live show as well at this point. Even when I saw Malcolm on the Traditional Techniques tour, he played a guitar and computer version of it. And it was really quite fucking cool. Oh, really? Oh, I would have loved to have seen that. There's got to be a video of that. I'm sure there is on the old YouTubes. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. Like, I love the demo version in that enhanced Wowie Zowie release. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. Nice and Critter's Edition. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Track 3:

[22:24] But yeah, no, this track does that thing that I like so much in every song I hear it in, where you start listening to it and then halfway through it turns into a different track also. Absolutely. Two different songs mashed together for sure. Yeah. So in listening to this again for this I couldn't believe this track is only like four, it's under four and a half minutes. This feels to me like an epic six, seven minute long track but it's not. It's a tight 4.23. Yeah. Tight 423. That's funny.

Track 3:

[23:04] I mean, long for a pavement track, but it feels like, it feels a lot longer. Doesn't it? Doesn't it? Maybe I'm just thinking of the demo version. It does because, okay, so not in a bad way for me. No, no. No. But because it feels like two different songs, I think that might give you the illusion that it's long. Yeah. You know? Plus the repetitive outro, like just that jam at the end. That always feels too short. And yet it feels like a day. It feels like a good day. Punching in, punching out. You're friends with the coyote. You're not friends with the coyote. Or the sheep rather no i, you know so there's been like three matthew sweet references and now like two looney tunes all right well um what else do you have to say about fight this generation, This, um, like all, all lyrics are interpretive. Yes. Like, and, and I, and I hesitate because I've listened to everybody else talk and they're so. Erudite.

Track 3:

[24:27] That's a great word. And I think that's what I'm trying to say. But they, they, they're very, they, they've got very strong opinions and they're very, they're very knowledgeable and they've obviously put a lot of pen to paper and sorted this out and, you know after 18 cups of coffee and and i i'm still i grapple with this one because it's like seeing shapes and clouds and you know you know that old um oh man it's a charlie brown comic from years ago uh and and they're like all sitting on the grass and they're looking at the clouds and the one one i think linus is saying like oh look that's like that cloud looks like washington crossing the delaware and and that one looks like uh rodan's the thinker and and that cloud looks like the the the stoning of saint peter and and they're like what do you see charlie brown he's like i see a ducky and a horsey but you know so i think you can i think you can do that with this track i mean just the the title alone evokes like uh an emotion yes and and the The way that it's, like, the way the song is constructed, how it starts off in 3-3, moves to 4-4 time in there, you get the sense of, like, there's two sides clashing. I'm still trying to figure out, like, for you.

Track 3:

[25:55] Wait a minute. 3-3. There's no 3-3. 3-4.

Track 3:

[25:59] At the beginning? Yeah. There's no 3-3. Oh, yeah.

Track 3:

[26:09] I'm not a music student, but it sounds pretty waltzy to me. Anyways, what is this song about to you? What viewpoint do you see this from? Because I think there's a couple different ones. Is this punching up or punching down? Oh, I don't think it's punching at all. I think this is a jumping up and down song.

Track 3:

[26:36] Um it's just anthemic and it's just you can get behind the the idea of fight this generation but i don't think any of the other stanzas um support any information about which generation it is who's doing the fighting you know that sort of thing and to me that's what makes it an anthem because you know the kids listening to it right now can feel like they're fighting the gen xers whereas like we were fighting boomers you know um but is it ever like the gen xers fighting the millennials well i suppose a few years ago it may have been because that's that's where i kind of landed on it's like it's the song itself feels cyclical in the way that it's it's like you could probably put it on repeat and it's just this constant like the the themes in it are are such such that it is like there's always going to be this realization, like the fight is part of the progress. It's part of the identity. So therefore it has to exist, but you're in it on one side and then you're on the other side of it. So you're constantly at odds with the generation before you and the generation after you. Absolutely. Yeah. It's very funny that that's the way it's turned out, you know, or keeps turning out.

Track 3:

[28:04] It's like Battlestar Galactica.

Track 3:

[28:08] New or old the new one all right the good one the really good one i liked the old one as a kid but it doesn't hold up well the old one had a robot dog and yeah and action figures yes i had a star buck with one arm did it come that way no no i pulled it off i wanted to make him a star wars was villains so that's what i did so listen it's been great talking to you today about your pavement origin story uh fight this generation and uh you know just a basket of other things uh hope uh you enjoyed yourself i know i did and uh that's what we've got for you this week next week we'll we're getting into the top 25 man so we we start to kick out the top 25 next week we're halfway way fucking home. Can't wait to hear it. I'll talk to you then. Wash your goddamn hands.

Track 2:

[29:05] Thanks for listening to Meeting Malcolmists, a pavement podcast where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you. If you've got questions or concerns, please shoot me an email. JD at MeetingMalcolmists.com.

jD is back to discuss, Old to Begin the fifth track on Pavements fourth LP, Brighten the Corners

jD is back up to his no good ways! But for real throw me your change!

jD is back and this week he's chatting with founding member Spiral Stairs about one of his contributions to Brighten the Corners, the pop gem Date w/ IKEA.

jD is back with the third song on Brighten the Corners, Transport is Arranged.

jD is back and boy does he love this song.

jD is back after taking a week off to reflect on things. This week he begins his journey into the 4th Pavement LP, Brighten the Corners, by visiting with Bobby from Atlanta and listening to the first track, Stereo.

jD is back from his camping trip and he's brought with him a most hummable song in I Love Perth taken from the Pacific Trim EP.

jD is camping but he recorded this in advance, how smart is that right? Today he pitches an idea about a compilation record for charity, a virtual cheers on Twitter and listens to Saganaw.

jD is back and he's high as fuck. This might not be a good episode to start the series with as it's a bit all over the place. Oh well enjoy it anyway. It features the Pacific Trim track Gangster's and Pranksters.

To celebrate the anniversary of the passing of DCB, jD is re-releasing his tribute to Berman from last August. 

jD hangs with Stephen on today's episode of the Top 50 Countdown. First, as usual, he shares his Pavement origin story and then reveals song 27!

Transcript

Track 1:

[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50. You can exhale now because track 28 is Stop Breathing. Amir, what are your initial thoughts about this song? I love this song. It appears in my Top 20 that I sent you. I think it's number 14 there. So it's half of your number. Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and.

Track 3:

[0:22] Roll Band Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown. Hey it's jd here back for another episode of our top 50 countdown featuring seminal indie rock band pavement week over week we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballots i then tabulated the results using an abacus and some fucker named gene how will your favorite song fare in the ratings well you'll have to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week, I'm joined by Pavement superfan, Stephen. Stephen, how the fuck are you? I'm very good, JD. How are you? I'm doing quite stellar, in fact. It's a good day to be breathing and upright, you know? It is. It is. Spring's in the air. You know, winter's gone. Things are looking up. Funny enough, it's snowing here today. First, you know, we've passed spring. We didn't get any snow at all. And then, you know, it turns into spring and all of a sudden we've got snow. So, you know, who can fucking tell?

Track 3:

[1:30] No, no, but yeah, thanks for having me on. It's like we said before, just before we started, I've been listening to the whole countdown so far. And, you know, it's been great. It's a nice little pick me up on the Monday morning when it drops. And it's a good feeling to think that, you know, there's going to be one a week for the whole year pretty much. So, yeah, I've been really enjoying it. Well, thank you so much. That means a lot. So let's get, you know, let's make this about you now and let's get right into your Pavement Origins story. Yeah, okay, yeah. So, I mean, I'm 42 now and I got into Pavement when I was about... Sort of 15 16 so it was basically when uh terror twilight came out.

Track 3:

[2:19] When i was a teenager i was really into radiohead at the time i mean i still am but uh, they were they were my band at the moment so i was obsessively into everything that they did and i would read all the interviews and you know get every release and bootleg and ep and thing that came out uh from that band and i remember i was on holiday once and uh i picked up a music magazine in the airport on the way over and there was a a big article in there about pavement and the terror twilight release um and i'd kind of heard of them a little bit uh i kind of knew off them but it was always but they were always sort of mentioned in the same breath as um, the fall and john peel and things like that and so yeah in my mind i kind of built them up as a kind of scary alternative loud punky i don't know abrasive sort of band that was sort of unlistenable, um and i kind of remember at the time also around that time in the 90s um blur brought out their uh.

Track 3:

[3:27] Self-titled album the one that has song two on right graham graham coxson was going around on the interview circuit and saying oh yeah this this this album's influenced by you know really really hard understandable american bands like like pavement and i was like oh okay yeah so this in my head i kind of built them up as um something a bit difficult and then i read this saw this article in um this music magazine it must be key magazine or enemy or something and they just came across like a really nice bunch of guys and i thought right when i get back from holiday i'm going to buy that record it sounds really good also so yeah the other thing was that the main draw at that time was uh the radio head rich sort of connection godrich yeah so he he nigel godrich produced it they had johnny greenwood playing harmonica for some reason on uh platform blues and on billy and so i bought the album purely on that uh that sort of thought really i'd never heard any of their songs didn't know anything about them and i remember getting home putting putting the CD on, and the first song is Spit on the Stranger. So that was the first Pavement song I'd ever heard. Wow. And it's got such a lovely, warm introduction, and those sort of synth pops, and the vocal, and the melody. I thought, wow, this is great. This isn't what I was expecting at all. I was expecting something really hard, and almost the kind of stuff that you hear on Westing.

Track 3:

[4:51] Yes, yes. And so, no, I loved it. I got really into that album. them i loved uh every track on it really um uh especially carrot rope loved carrot rope but i don't i don't quite i don't quite get the kind of uh the sort of online hate that that song gets i think that's a great song um but yeah from terror twilight i then kind of worked backwards and picked up all the cds in kind of reverse order i got i think bright in the corners next, text uh and i kind of worked backwards uh crooked rain wowie zowie was hard to find i think in those days i couldn't find it so it took me it took me about a year or so to track that that cd down.

Track 3:

[5:33] Um so yeah i wonder why that is i don't know i think it it was in the 90s it was kind of like, you know there wasn't the internet wasn't so prominent you couldn't you almost didn't know what a band's back catalogue was. You had to kind of track it down and search it out in record stores and read about them in magazines and, uh yeah so for whatever reason that that record was hard to hard to track down but uh yeah so it's by the time i went to university i think i had all the albums, uh but then unfortunately they broke up yeah so i kind of missed the boat on the on the sort of original incarnation uh uh but then the the sm debut came out which is absolutely, that is my absolute favorite album by anybody of all time. It's really fucking good. Yeah, it's so good. I mean, I still listen to that album now. Like it's, what was it, 24 years old, is it? 23 years old or something, as we speak. Yeah, pretty close. I think I listened to it last week. I still get something from that album. Me too. I do. I listened to it for like three days in a row, Les, two weeks ago. Listened to it for like three days in a row, just straight. It's still got it, hasn't it? Every song on there is fantastic.

Track 3:

[7:00] The sort of guitar work, the melody. And I think sometimes with... It's quite a poppy, immediate album. And sometimes those sorts of albums don't really have the longevity. But for whatever reason, this one does. It's really got a lot going on. Um so so yeah so then so from that i i kind of so from 2001 onwards i kind of picked up all the, mountainous solar stuff as it came out uh uh but none of them really grabbed me like the debut did um up until um traditional techniques so yeah that that that's another one that's really got under my skin that album it's a great one um i think it came out i think it came out just at the beginning of lockdown yeah it was 2018 yeah and it might it might be something to do with that you know sort of being trapped in the house with this with this new record and i listened to it every day for for a long time over over lockdown uh but yeah that that's that's a really good one as well yeah um and it was around that sort of time that um.

Track 3:

[8:14] That i uh found your podcast and uh yeah oh wow it was it was kind of the traditional techniques album that made me kind of think oh i need to get a bit more into to revisiting some of the other mountainous stuff that i've not really got into the first time around and i found your podcast and the uh uh the mountainous conundrum podcast yes yes the guys did yeah that was great so uh yeah kind of that that period that lockdown period for me is kind of synonymous with listening to a lot of pavement podcasts, listening to traditional techniques, and sort of going back and re-exploring some of the other Mount Masolo stuff.

Track 3:

[8:55] But yeah, so yeah, I didn't catch them live. Well, I saw Mount Masolo a few times when he was touring the first album at festivals and little venues, and that was really cool. Here's one for you. I saw Radiohead, and opening for Radiohead was SM and the Jicks. Oh, really? What year was that? Yeah, that was Hail to the Thief, when they were touring for Hail to the Thief. Yeah, 2004, something like that. Oh, that'd be cool. That's about right, yeah. So they were doing, were they doing Real Emotional Trash or something at that time? What were the Jicks doing?

Track 3:

[9:40] Whatever came after Pig Lib. uh pig lip okay cool yeah no the one after pig lip uh shit i can't i can't think of what it was face the truth i've got it up here somewhere uh face the truth, Or Real Emotional Trash, one of those two. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So did you get a chance to see Pavement live ever? I did. Well, when they regrouped in 2010, I seem to remember. Yeah. And they did a series of shows down in London. But it was the week I was getting married.

Track 3:

[10:19] Tough to escape that. So I didn't go, but I thought about it. It was almost like you know travel down to london come back get married the next day and i thought no it's not that's not gonna work so i'll uh i'll skip that but then i thought yeah wise uh but then i caught them on the um on the most recent tour and that that tour was fantastic that really.

Track 3:

[10:40] You know i was completely obsessed with that tour it was so good where did you where did you see the manchester uh yeah so i saw them in leeds um and manchester uh and then the following year, they played a little one-off uh festival in the uk called blue dot and they were headlining right yeah yeah and that was really cool um yeah you got some of the uk gigs didn't you yeah i saw every every stop except for leeds oh no that's a shame yeah oh so you're at manchester yeah yeah that was a good one i thought yeah too yeah that i remember on that one they, they opened with major leagues didn't they which i think which is a bit i always think that's a bit of an odd uh odd intro song it doesn't really get things going in the same way it sort of set the mood for the night like it was a more mellow show for sure definitely definitely it's but still great still a great song yeah, but yeah no but then so the funny thing about the Leeds gig was um.

Track 3:

[11:52] I went with my brother and we went for some food beforehand and a couple of drinks. And we're in this Indian restaurant. And the waiter comes over and says, oh, are you guys going to the pavement gig later? Because he must have seen our T-shirts and things like that. Well, oh, yeah, yeah. And he goes, oh, the band ate next door just an hour ago. So there was another slightly more upper class Indian restaurant next door. And he's like, oh, no, they just ate there recently. and so i was like really really buzzing from that i was like oh yeah we've eaten in the restaurant next to the one that pavement ate in so we finished up there and we're walking up to the venue and the doors opened i think at seven and it was probably about you know one or two minutes to seven o'clock and we're walking up through the town center and as we're walking, we kind of notice that we're kind of walking in step with this other group that are kind of walking in this at the same speed and in the same direction you know it's a bit awkward when you're kind of trying to overtake each other and uh i thought hang on they've got they sound like american accent and um so i look over and it's uh it's bob and spiral walking up walking up to the venue um and bear in mind that the doors are just about to open so they're just like strolling up through the city center like they've got all the time in the world.

Track 3:

[13:15] And I was like, oh, you know, I don't normally, you know, don't normally do this but i'll have to i've got to say something you know and i've had a couple of pints by this point so i was feeling a bit more uh confident but uh so so as we got to the traffic lights i stopped them and said oh sorry guys you know just got to say hello you know you're a big fan and they were really really nice guys just stopped and we sort of stood there by the road and chatted for about five minutes or so and you know they were in no rush at all to to get to the venue or start the gig or anything like that um yeah so really really nice um, really nice guys uh and then and from that point yeah it was just a great gig uh yeah yeah oh that's so fun that you got to meet them they're so gracious right yeah no really good guys and just yeah just chatting like you know like it was like it was nothing you know yeah and you know asking where we were from and you know uh they were talking about how they'd played at the same venue with sonic youth like back in the 90s and you know and stuff like that just really yeah it's really nice little little moment um and then managed to to meet them a second time um at the blue dot festival uh the year after wow uh because they and i don't think this was really.

Track 3:

[14:40] Picked up online that much but on the first event of the day at the festival it was on the poster described as a listening party, And I thought a listening party with pavement and it was a sort of event curated by Tim Burgess from the charlatans. Okay. He does these sort of online listening parties where he plays an album and people listen along live and, you know, that sort of thing. And so I thought, okay, that's probably just, you know, in a tent somewhere, they're probably playing a pavement album and maybe talking about it on stage, that sort of thing. So I thought, well, I'll head over to that before, you know.

Track 3:

[15:20] Before we go and see any bands. And so I head over to this tent, turn the corner, and the entire band are in this tent, up on this little stage. And it's probably about, I don't know, maybe 200 people on sort of chairs. It's like a sort of wedding tent, you know, like chairs. And they're playing Wari Zari through the speakers. And they've got this interviewer on stage, and she's just talking to them about the album as they play it through, like track by track.

Track 3:

[15:50] Um and you know so you got like a sort of track by track rundown of every wow it's like it's so surreal to sort of turn the corner step into this tent and you know mount merson the rest of them were all on stage and they're doing that kind of track by track blow by blow rundown of every every you know every song on the rise alley i was just i was just like i wish i wish i had a bit of paper to write some of this stuff down or to remember what they're saying because it was it was really good really good sort of um director's commentary yeah exactly it's like you know those sort of um uh on tv here on say like you know on like a friday night we might get, a sort of behind the scenes documentary on some 80s band or something and they're sitting at the mixing desk and they're talking about how they recorded this album years ago it was like that but for a band you actually like and for an album you know um an album you're actually really invested in um yeah so that was really cool, uh and then yeah so what's your go-to record these days uh these days i would say it's um yeah uh because i think it's got the most variety sure does uh it's probably like the best.

Track 3:

[17:10] Single if you were to sort of say what if you were to give one record to somebody and say this This is what pavement's like. I would say it's Wari Zari because it's got the louder stuff, the quieter stuff.

Track 3:

[17:21] It's really eclectic.

Track 3:

[17:26] Yeah, when I was younger, it was Crooked Rain that was always the one that I would go to. But I think now it's Wari Zari.

Track 3:

[17:37] Well, what do you think there, Stephen? Should we flip the record and talk about song number 27? Let's do it, yeah. Alright, we'll be back right after this.

Track 3:

[23:35] It's the fourth song from Terror Twilight on the Countdown. Song number 27 is the fantastic The Hex. Stephen, what are your initial thoughts about this song, The Hex? The Hex. It's a really cool song. It's, I think it's completely different to anything else that Pavement does. I think it's very unique. um it's got a style which isn't really isn't really there in any i can't think of any other song that looks like it it's um you know it's kind of it's kind of slow kind of lurching, atmospheric um it's got a kind of it's almost a kind of proggy kind of vibe um Um, uh, but yeah, no, no, it's really, it's really cool. Um, I love the guitar solo. It's, it's absolutely brilliant. Did they play at any of the live shows you went to? They did. They did. They did, uh, at Blue Dot. Yeah. I was, um, they, they didn't take leads on Manchester and I was really hoping they would. Uh, and yeah, and then they, they played it at the last one. So I was happy. Yeah. Really happy with that. They really open it up live. Don't they? Oh, it's great. Yeah. Yeah, really cool song live.

Track 3:

[24:57] It's one of those kind of jammy songs. You know, you can tell it's come from a, you know, a band session rather than something that's been kind of written in advance.

Track 3:

[25:10] And in fact, you've got the, there's that other version of it, isn't there? And then the Hex. Yeah, and then the Hex. Yeah, that's on the B side. and that's i think that was part of the bright in the corners sessions yeah i believe so yeah yeah yeah and so that that version is pretty cool as well but that's much more it hasn't really got that kind of haunting sort of vibe to it it's more kind of crunchy and rocky it kind of i don't think it really emphasizes that sort of guitar line so much it's more straight into the kind of chorus and then like Magnus is doing the kind of scatting yelling bit over the top, it's quite a cool version. Yeah. So you can kind of see how that kind of rocky jam that they started with sort of evolved into this kind of more atmospheric, proggy song and I'd imagine quite a lot of that is probably down to Nigel Godrich. I bet you're right. I bet you're right. Because it's really dense as well, isn't it? Yeah. Whereas a lot of Pavement songs tend to be sparse production-wise, the whole Terror Twilight is so rich and atmospheric. Yeah. This song is a great example of that. Definitely, definitely. It's almost kind of claustrophobic. You can kind of get lost in it.

Track 3:

[26:33] Yeah, it's a really cool song. um in fact yeah on the on the nigel gottrich uh sequence i think he puts it at number two, so he obviously thinks it's like uh you know should be up there at the beginning i do think it works a bit better at the end as a uh you know as a sort of finale rather than pin it right right up there at the beginning yeah i like the sequence that that they put together for uh terror twilight uh i think i like it a little bit better than the gottrich sequence but it's cool that we have both. Definitely, yeah. Yeah. It changes the record. It does, it does. It's funny how a sequence can change the feel of something. Yeah. But like I was saying before, Spit on a Stranger is just the perfect opening for an album, I think. It's spot on to put that at the beginning.

Track 3:

[27:28] But to start off with The Hex, it's pretty dense. It's pretty yeah um but yeah no yeah really cool so do you have a handle on what this song is about, well i was having to think and yeah i mean i've been listening to this song a lot, over the past few weeks in preparation um and trying to get a sense of what's what's going on but to me it feels kind of it's kind of in some ways it's a bit radio heady because i think it's it's kind of, it's kind of a bit about um existence and alienation and feeling sort of lost and uh like some of the lyrics um, He's talking about, you know, sort of been reeling around a parking lot, being, you know, being lost in life and not knowing where you're going.

Track 3:

[28:27] There's some great stuff in the lyrics. That line about the epileptic surgeons with their eyes X'd out. You know, it's pretty creepy stuff. Yeah. You know, attending to the torn up kid. so you can kind of imagine this sort of you know you can kind of read that as someone who's sort of physically broken or someone who's maybe emotionally torn up like you know life has just got too heavy and right broken them down and you've got these sort of zombie, twitching surgeons attending you know attending to this kid um so pretty pretty sort of nightmarish childish kind of stuff um i love that line about the uh the secondary stumbles because the cadence of the count has led him astray i just love the sort of syncopation of that line it's it's brilliant um and then you've got uh uh the the sort of section about the architecture students which i love that yeah that's got to be one of his uh one of his best lines definitely It's, yeah, really funny. It kind of.

Track 3:

[29:50] Yeah, he has these lines like the bit about, you know, the architecture students with the itch they can't scratch, and, you know, the surgeons in the second verse and songs like Grounded where he's sort of taking a pot at doctors and it seems like he's got this kind of.

Track 3:

[30:09] He likes to sort of take the pot shots at the professional classes, I think. I think, you know, he's there from the sort of creative side, the artistic side and he's looking at the people that are kind of dedicating their lives to these sort of, you know to these professional and technical endeavors and he's sort of you know taking little pot shots at that I think that's I think that's great. I like that that's good but yeah it's kind of, it reminds me of a lot of like a Radiohead song something from OK Computer or something where it's talking about the state of the world and alienation and being lost and these sort of little nightmarish, the janets uh here and there um really good really good stuff um the the line about the swallow at the beginning is pretty cool as well i mean i think so too yeah i mean i think that's him kind of in some ways kind of showing off a little bit about some you know his knowledge about migratory birds which you know you can see that so it's quite humorous on that on that side but also i think it's kind of talking about um so so the line is uh swallow answer to your inner voice and please return god installed that radar in your pointy little beak so please return so it's kind of like it's a bit you know you could see it one way it's about nature about migratory birds or you could or you could see that it's something to do with kind of like destiny and fate.

Track 3:

[31:39] These creatures are kind of, you know, they're drawn back. They've got no sort of free will.

Track 3:

[31:47] And you can maybe see it like, perhaps it's kind of, maybe like a broken relationship and he's, you know, his partner's broken up with him and gone off and he knows they'll come back because they're drawn back with this sort of instinct, this kind of fate. You know, you can't escape this kind of instinct that's within you. Um good yeah so it's all yeah there's i think there's a lot of stuff in there like that which is i think i think different to to your average pavement song it's a lot more downbeat a lot darker a lot sort of um.

Track 3:

[32:24] A lot more sort of oppressive um and and that together with the whole sort of rhythm with the thing and the kind of sort of lurching piano guitar line that sort of just you know that sort of those sort of bass notes and then sort of that sort of descending guitar part all the way down yeah um yeah really cool really cool nice stab nice stab on the sm lyrics though because Because, for real, he's really tough to nail down, right? Like, it's really tough to figure out what he's saying because it does change so much. It is like phraseology, in a sense, you know? Like, just throwing out neat, syncopatic phrases and bits of thoughts and bits of ideas, and then you get this structure, you know? Very cool. Yeah, definitely. It's more about the kind of image. which, you know, it's kind of poetry in that sense, isn't it? Because it's more about the image it creates in your head than anything literal, you know? Yeah.

Track 3:

[33:28] How do you feel about the ranking of this song? Is it properly ranked? Is it 27? Should it be higher? Should it be lower? Yeah. I mean, not wanting to question the abacus, but I think it could be higher. I think uh i was just looking at my my uh submission to you and i think i had it at 13, that sounds more about right like just outside the top 10 i think it's one of the one of the one of the greats definitely i mean it's different i can i can understand why it's lower because i think i don't think it's a pavement song in that sense i think it's more of a it's not really really representative of what what they do it's quite unique um it's more of a shows you that sorry i apologize okay it all well it also shows you that terror twilight just doesn't have the same love that you know that other pavement records have you know like people like some of the songs are held back because you know people like a lot of people have terror twilight is number five. The rest of the records are interchangeable. You know, like, oh, I have Slanted at number one. Oh, I have Crooked at number one. Oh, I have Wally's Alley at number one. But most people have Terror of Twilight around five, it seems.

Track 3:

[34:50] Yeah, no, I can understand that. And I think maybe because this was the first record that I got, you don't come to it with all that sort of baggage, really. That's right. You can kind of see it as an isolated record rather than in the context of everything else. But no, I think it needs to be higher. Just for the guitar solo alone, it's like, it's so, so, so good.

Track 3:

[35:16] It's almost kind of a bit Pink Floyd-y, a bit kind of prog-y. It's probably like the cleanest guitar solo that he does really like most most of the guitar stuff he does is kind of you know sort of intentionally sloppy and and you know distorted and he's hit you know hitting these off key notes on purpose and you know like like the um like the solo on thin which is another absolutely fantastic solo but that's all like you know that's that's completely all over the place which you know in a really good way but uh in a great way yeah Whereas this solo is much more tightly controlled and sort of almost like classic rock. You know, it's really nice. Interesting. Classic rock. Okay, I can see that. Yeah, I could see it on the, you know, downside of the moon or something like that. Yeah. I was just listening to Dark Side before we got on the call. Yeah. Nice, nice. Yeah.

Track 3:

[36:16] Yeah. Well, man, it's been great having you on to talk about your origin story and the hacks. Is there anything that you want to plug or anything like that? No, not really. No, I don't really have much internet presence or produce anything creative. Well, that's cool. That's cool, nevertheless. No, no, no. I really appreciate your time. And I thank you so much for doing this. No worries. it's no it's been it's been a lot of fun i was i was looking forward to this for a long time and you know like i said i've been enjoying the countdown so far uh and uh looking forward to see what seeing what comes up at the top i'll never tell yeah well i'll tell in december but yeah all right steven thanks so much talk to you soon watch your goddamn hands.

jD is back from the East Coast and he's happy to be recording on his home rig. Today he discusses the 1 year gap left by the passing of DCB and plays the first track from Pacific Trim, Give it a Day.

jD is broadcasting from Prince Edward Island as he wraps up Wowee Zowee with a look at Western Homes.

jD is back and this week he's playing Half a Canyon.

This week, jD checks in from the East Coast of Canada to bring you his thoughts on songwriting and the track Pueblo.

This week jD is all about the first Spiral track on Wowee Zowee, Kennel District. Check it out. If you want to buy the track from this week's episode visit: https://apple.co/3iIZBzz

jD is back to fix a mistake he made in the Fight this Generation episode.

jD is back to exploring the wonder that is side 3 of Pavement's 3rd long play, Wowee Zowee. This week he's discussing Fight this Generation. Buy the track here: https://apple.co/31SoSkQ

This week on the pod, jD turns the record to side-3 and tells you how he feels about Flux = Rad. Get the song from todays podcast here: https://apple.co/3i3P01W

jD is back and he's brought a contest! Enter today! To purchase the song from today's episode please visit: https://apple.co/30TJZTt

jD is back after a couple of weeks off with some Pavement news, emails and his look into Grave Architecture. You can purchase the song from today's episode here: https://apple.co/37jU2SS

This week on the ole Pavement top 50 podcast, jD welcomes Amir from Providence to talk all about his Pavement origin story and to breakdown song 28!

Transcript:

Track 1:

[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50. Oh, I love this song so much. It's a song, I hadn't, it wasn't on my first wave of songs to study, even though I knew we were going to play it. But it wasn't, like, you know, there were other songs I felt like I had to nail more. So this was towards the end. I said, okay, let me get into this type slow jam. Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band.

Track 3:

[0:24] And you're listening to The Countdown. Hey it's shay d here back for another episode of our top 50 countdown for seminal indie rock band pavement week over week we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballots i then tabulated the results using an abacus and the kid from the sixth sense wait a minute am i dead how will your favorite song fare in the rankings. You'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week, I'm joined by pavement superfan Amir from Providence. Amir, how the fuck are you? Hello, I'm calling from Providence, Rhode Island, and I'm very fine. Life is good. Excellent. That is good news. It's great to have you here. Let's just not beat around the bush. Let's get right into this. What is your Or pavement origin story. So that's a long origin story. So I live in Providence, Rhode Island, as I mentioned. By the way, cheers. This is local. Cheers. Watery domestic beer from Rhode Island. Narragansett Atlantic-like lager. So...

Track 3:

[1:37] A little plug for Atlantic Light Lager. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, that's very watery. Anyway, so I was not born here. I was born in Moscow, not Moscow, Idaho. Moscow, Soviet Union, which is more or less the same thing as Russia. And I grew up there in the 80s. And I loved music since I was, I don't know, since I remember myself. I started playing piano when I was four. So I listened to a lot of music it was also the 1980s were an exciting time for rock music in Russia because Russia was like after many decades of like complete censorship it was starting to open up and, rock music suddenly became legal so it was possible to listen to that, if you if this makes you curious I recommend everybody listen to the Wind of Change podcast It's just an amazing story. Oh, it's amazing. I've listened to it. Yes, it's brilliant. So, but, yeah, so I started, like, loving rock music when I was, like, a child. But we are a Jewish family, so we moved to Israel in 1991.

Track 3:

[2:52] And even though Russia was opening up back then, Israel was, like, always a very open country, open to everything. So we had MTV, or more precisely, we had MTV Europe, which is not exactly the same thing. Uh mtv like in the united states and mtv europe it's not exactly the same thing mtv europe has a lot of uh uk uh bias and uh like because it broadcasted from the uk uh and uh it's it also tried to incorporate some other european music like italian or german but it was mostly like very uk biased so that's when i was growing up mtv was uh important it was like there was no youtube YouTube kind of replaced MTV now but MTV was important culturally like hugely important not just for myself but for a lot of other people, but initially when I started like watching it it was kind of boring at least during the day but then during the night it got much more exciting because they started like after midnight, they started playing much more interesting stuff and there was a show called Alternative Nation I think it was every Tuesday on MTV Europe and they played stuff like Sonic Youth and Pavement and European what you would say alternative bands, like whatever alternative even means.

Track 3:

[4:18] I tried to figure out what does it even mean that it's alternative? Is it a certain guitar sound? It actually doesn't mean much at all. It's just rock music that is cooler than Bon Jovi. Well, what's funny, it was alternative to the mainstream and then it became the mainstream. Exactly. Like, if you look back at this, like, it was totally the mainstream. Like, Nirvana was alternative, but it was already quite the mainstream back in 1992. And by now, it's completely mainstream. But, you know, whatever. Names of things are sometimes funny. So, yeah. And they mentioned pavement occasionally. Now, initially, they mentioned, I didn't really dig it. Like I remember, I definitely remember they showed Cut Your Hair, of course. They never showed it during the day. They showed it late at night.

Track 3:

[5:12] I didn't really understand it. I was like, it just looked weird. And these days, I look at the Cut Your Hair video, and now I'm a Dan and I have children, and they look at it and they just think it's funny with the gorilla and the lizard. Yes. And I was just overthinking it totally. Like I was 15 years old. why what does what does this mean i was totally overthinking it um but yeah they should cut your hair and they i remember they showed the gold sounds video um maybe also yeah rattled by the rush like the weird the weird version with the bathtub okay didn't really understand like what's the deal with that so i did love like i did love a lot of other alternative bands like i loved sonic youth i loved therapy if you if you heard that's a band from northern ireland uh i love the, alternative, rock band, whatever that means.

Track 3:

[6:03] Anyway, so then I graduated high school. And as pretty much everybody else in Israel, I got drafted to the military. Now, what you don't hear, you often hear about the Israeli military on the news. What you don't hear about the Israeli military is that most people there, they don't do combat and wars and stuff like that. It's just, I work with computers And that's like what most people do. They work with, you know, cars, equipment, computers, whatever. I worked with computers. And I had a friend there. And that friend was much cooler than I am. He's probably still to this day much cooler than I am. And he had many more CDs than I had. And he knew alternative music like way better than I had. I did know Sonic Youth. Sonic Youth, which is another Samuel band. I did know Sonic Youth much better than he did. But other than that, he was like the huge expert. He taught me about cool bands like Mogwai and Mercury Rev and a bunch of others. And he taught me about pavement.

Track 3:

[7:08] And he gave me the Wowie Zowie CD to listen. Interesting. And I was immediately hooked. That was just incredible. So like from the first seconds of We Dance, oh my God, how did I miss that? We Dance is such a brilliant song. I'm just thinking about this. I will make this really weird comparison, but it kind of makes sense to me. Because like I mentioned that I play piano. I played piano for many years, like almost 40 years now. Oh my God. I'm old. And I...

Track 3:

[7:43] There's another band called Guns N' Roses. There is. Which is nowhere near as cool as Pavement. Nowhere near. But that's like the not-alternative thing that they were showing a lot on MTV. And I couldn't feel like, why are so many people excited about this band? And then I saw November Rain, which, ooh, it has piano. Piano is classy. So it's classy. It doesn't... No, I'm not comparing. I'm not comparing Guns N' Roses to Pavement, but We Dance had the piano, piano is classy. And so I heard like, Ooh, that's a much like, that's such an interesting song. And I absolutely loved it. And I loved the rest of the album as hectic and eclectic as it is and extremely long. I saw it described somewhere as three six-song EPs or six three-song EPs. That's probably the... That's an interesting way to look at it. Yeah, I saw it described like that somewhere. It's a very weird album, but it's so great. It's absolutely like all of it. I love it. And then I heard the rest of it from that friend. And he gave me like Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, and Brighten the Corners.

Track 3:

[9:10] And later I just bought them all myself. So slanted, of course. So I have them all twice because they released them with the usual version and then the Lux and Redux and all those. LA Desert, they expanded. So I have them all twice.

Track 3:

[9:27] Yeah. And yeah, so that's kind of my pavement origin story. And yeah, and I became a super fan, I guess, around 98 or 99. Wow. So you got to experience Terror Twilight when it came out. That one you got to experience, right? In real time? Yep. What did you think of that at the time? It was very different. I did love it. I loved all the songs. I listened to it a lot back then.

Track 3:

[9:57] It's very different it's very different from if I really have I don't want to but if I really have to pick a favorite album it would probably be Crooked Rain Crooked Rain I really love them all but Terror Twilight is very different, has its own style unlike Wawizawi which has like 20 different styles but yeah, Terror Twilight definitely has a certain and particular.

Track 3:

[10:25] Integrated feel to it. Yeah, I would agree. So did you ever get a chance to see them live? Yeah. So first time I saw something related to Pavement, it was not Pavement. And it was not Malcolm's solo. It was a show in Israel, in Tel Aviv, in 2004. It was a tribute show, like a bunch of local Israeli bands played a tribute show to Pavement and Malcolm's. Really? It was pretty brilliant. Yeah. Israel has like a very varied music scene. Okay. Rock of all kinds of styles and jazz. I know nothing about it. It's not that known around the world, but it has a very rich, vibrant music scene. Mostly sang in Hebrew, but occasionally in English. So that show had bands singing mostly in English. Like I remember a band that I really loved, they performed Gold Sounds.

Track 3:

[11:27] And here, I think, uh, that's like, that, that's how I, that's how I found out about that show that like, there was a band that I, that I love. They, they, that band used to be called blush and lure back then. And they sang in English later. They changed the name of the band and they started singing in Hebrew, but, but back then they were singing in English and, uh, yeah. So they performed two songs there. I think it's definitely gold sounds and probably here. Here and uh yeah there was a bunch of other bands and like some of them did like very similar versions to the original some of them completely reworked them as like punk songs some of them translated the lyrics to hebrew like there was a i think it was father to a sister of thought they completely translated it to hebrew that was that was fun so anyway uh yeah that was a cool show. The second time I saw something pavement related was in 2010.

Track 3:

[12:23] 2010, that was the first big reunion in New York, in Central Park. That was a brilliant show. It's actually possible that you and I went to the same show. Yes, I know. Yeah. And yeah, I absolutely loved it. I think, like you mentioned a couple of times on your podcast, that, how did you describe it? That they seemed tired or something like that?

Track 3:

[12:48] Yeah, they just didn't seem into it. You know, the same way they did on this newer tour. Maybe, um, maybe I, I was absolutely excited about this. Oh, me too. At least, at least the part, they also seemed like very excited. Uh, the Stanowich was like ecstatic, uh, eyeballed, uh, who is like, usually very like quiet and, uh, serious. He was actually quite chatty on the stage. I remember, like, I remember him speaking to New York and how cool, like he's, he's from New York and how cool New York is and how cool Queens is. He, he mentioned Queens. I don't remember what he's, what did he say exactly, but like, he's like, are there people from Queens or something like that? Like he looked. I don't remember that. Yeah. And he's, he mentioned something like that. So anyway, um, yeah, it was, it was a fantastic show. Such a fantastic show.

Track 3:

[13:43] Heckler Spray, Summer Babe. Oh, wow. In the Mountain Desert. Uh, just a fantastic, fantastic show. So is the record that you go back to now, like, is it Wowie Zowie when you have a hankering for Pavement, or is it your favorite, Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain? I would probably say, it's so hard to say, I would probably say Crooked Rain and Slanted, but I love them all. I love them all. I listen to them all. There was a third Pavement-related thing I saw, and that was Malkmus.

Track 3:

[14:18] Malcolm's solo I think it was in 2012 or 13 it was the it was it was.

Track 3:

[14:26] Oh, I'm, I'm blacking out. Which, uh, which, uh, the album with, uh, uh, Senator, uh, which, which album is that? Mirror Traffic? Yes, that one. Uh, yeah. So that was, that was a brilliant show. Uh, that was a really brilliant show. Towards, towards the end, he did, uh, uh, something like, uh, funny, uh, Faith No More impersonation. Really? yeah like towards the end of the show he played he played a couple of famous so he played here and i think uh speaks he remember and uh at one of the songs towards the end they were like the jigs were getting all uh uh in a good mood and uh jamming and at some point they just started started playing um what's the famous faith no more song epic yeah yeah they just I started playing that. That's so cool. Yeah. Anyway, it was a brilliant rock and roll show. So yeah, so these are the three Pavement-related shows I attended. Nice. Well, what do you say we take a quick break and come back and talk about song number 28? Let's do that. Let's do that. Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement.

Track 1:

[15:43] Thanks listening. And now on with a countdown. 28.

Track 3:

[20:18] Song number 28 on the countdown comes from Crooked Rain. Crooked Rain, amazingly, it's the first song from their sophomore effort to appear on this list. You can exhale now because track 28 is Stop Breathing. Amir. Yeah. What are your initial thoughts about this song? I love this song. It appears in my top 20 that I sent you. I think it's number 14 there. so it's, half of your number I know maybe I should have rated it even higher it's like it's a brilliant song it's kind of special I made a bit of homework so it has the, it has if I'm not mistaken I learned music for many years but maybe I'm mistaken about something but almost all Pavement songs have the quadruple rhythm 1, 2, 3, 4 okay this one is Because the correct term here is probably the six-eighths rhythm. Oh, okay. One, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three.

Track 3:

[21:27] So there are not a lot of pavement songs in this rhythm. On the studio albums, it's just Our Singer and Stop Breathing. And half of Fight This Generation, the beginning of Fight This Generation. Oh, okay. The rest, and well, there's also 5-4 equals Unity, which begins in 5-4ths. And then I think actually the chorus is also in 3-4ths or 6-8ths. And the rest of the pavement, well, in all the kinds of B-sides and bonus tracks, tracks uh there are a bunch of uh um six eighths uh songs uh mercy snack kentucky cocktail so stark sagano stray fire um and yeah that's about it you did do your homework i did do my homework there's also kneeling bus uh also known as rugrat which is a very weird beat that i couldn't completely understand a very very cool one uh but it's like it's neither four neither three but yeah so that's so it's pretty.

Track 3:

[22:36] It's pretty unique relatively unique in that regard it's beautifully placed in the track list at the third third spot kind of a different mood between like the big rockers the, uh elevate me later and uh cut your hair yeah so that one has a different mood it has very beautiful uh guitar sound uh throughout the song and especially of course towards the end, um so yeah i absolutely love the song one of the best they the pavement has very, pretty much no songs that uh i would like say that they are bad but this this one is really one one of the best so what's your relationship with this song uh crooked rain crooked rain you said is your favorite record so what do you remember about the first time you heard this song or.

Track 3:

[23:33] Something like that so so this was the this was the second album i heard uh after wavy zowie and it's relatively much more uh much more of a straightforward rock straight absolutely relatively, compare it compared to wawi especially the first song like it gets a bit weirder towards the end but uh the beginning of it it's like it's a relatively very straightforward i agree.

Track 3:

[23:58] In a classic rock album i i i heard somewhere that uh malcolm called it like disparagingly classic rock like he said that silent kid is a is a classic rock song in like in a not very good way, but he's wrong well it's maybe he was just sarcastic i don't know it was Because Silent Kid is a brilliant song. And Stop Breathing is a brilliant song. It has this really, really beautiful guitar sound and this beat. And it may be, oh my God, this is such a cool rock band with cool melodies. And they do all these things so easily. And it sounds like they were just having fun. But the song, it's kind of somber, kind of solemn, kind of serious. Yeah, I agree. Relatively. It has this special atmosphere. Nevertheless, it feels like while they're playing it, they're having a lot of fun with these guitars. Like, that's a really special guitar sound, especially towards the end. And it gets stronger and stronger.

Track 3:

[25:08] And oh my God, it's just so beautiful. It's just so inspirational. Yeah. What do you think the song is about? I have no idea. I barely ever listen to lyrics, to be honest. In music, I mostly listen to the melodies and the playing and the arrangements.

Track 3:

[25:31] Volley. Like, volley has a... It's kind of a... Like, it probably refers to both things. Like, both to the volley in sports. ports and in the war. And that's kind of a menacing word. It's struck by the first volley. So that gets you in a kind of a tragic mood from the start. And then it says, stop breathing. And there's also this alternative version on LA Desert Origins where he says, start bleeding, like stop breathing and then start bleeding. Really? Yeah. I gotta re-listen to LA Desert Origins. My memory is so shit. Oh, well. Yeah. It's like the comment there is that it's from Louder Than You you think, 1993, and it's probably, I don't know, maybe it's a demo, maybe it's not a demo, maybe it was at some point intended to be released. But in the chorus there, he says, stop breathing and then start bleeding, which makes it even more menacing. Yeah.

Track 3:

[26:46] Yeah. So there's this menacing song, and right after it, there's Cut Your Hair, which is very fun. The exact opposite. The exact opposite.

Track 3:

[26:55] But menacing, you know, my attitude to music is embodied in a poem that I really love. It was written by a jazz musician who's very old, but he's still alive, I think. His name is Oliver Lake, a jazz saxophone player. And he wrote a poem. And in the poem, he mentions names of many musical artists that he loves. and they're very different artists.

Track 3:

[27:26] And he's like, and the poem is built like a conversation between himself and the waiter in the restaurant. And then he says, put all the meals in one, put all my meals in one plate. Don't ask me what kind of music I play. I play the good kind. So I like, I actually, I don't care very much about the genres of music and I don't care very much about the mood of a particular song. Like some songs are happy and some songs are sad and some songs are scary like these are all important things but uh eventually i i i judge all songs by like this is the good song or is it not a very good song and uh this song is is of the good kind uh yeah that's that's the really important thing like it like it definitely has a mood uh definitely has a very identifiable probably intentional mood and it's probably placed intentionally in that sequence uh on the album but it definitely has this character.

Track 3:

[28:25] So this is going to be I think I know the answer to this because.

Track 3:

[28:31] You've already told me what you rated it on your list but do you think this song is properly rated overrated underrated on the top 50 28 is lowish, I would be very unpleasantly surprised if it was not in the top 50 at all um i like i would probably rate it a bit higher uh maybe it's not my number one song but it's like it's pretty like it's pretty high it's pretty high on my list it's a great song it is absolutely there's nothing to shake a stick at unless it's a complimentary uh stick shaking your dick fun fun fact about uh the tennis part uh the so the song is like you mentioned it uh You mentioned that you read it from those notes that Malthus had in his own songs. And he mentioned tennis himself, so we have it from himself.

Track 3:

[29:28] I checked it. So I edit Wikipedia quite often in English and in Hebrew and occasionally in other languages. And I checked what is actually Malthus' relation to tennis.

Track 3:

[29:41] And the English Wikipedia mentions that he loves playing golf and tennis, but he doesn't, Here's where it gets funny. So Wikipedia editors, good, serious Wikipedia editors, try to fact-check everything. And the fact-check in Wikipedia is done by adding footnotes. You may have noticed that Wikipedia has lots of footnotes. So I checked the footnotes. So where it mentions that he plays golf and tennis, it had two footnotes. Both of them were not very good. One of them was a completely dead link. the other one didn't say anything about any sports so I found another source like it's actually a tennis website where he speaks about actually loving tennis so yeah so there's another confirmation that he loves tennis that other tennis website mentioned the song yeah so I improved the English Wikipedia article about Mr. Stephen Maltmes and now it has a better footnote for the tennis information, So, yeah, that's a kind of thing I do for fun. Cool.

Track 3:

[30:50] Well, it's been really great talking to you today. I'm curious if you have anything that you want to plug or mention for people to look at on the internet or anything that you've created, anything like that. Well not much I'm kind of I'm trying I'm trying to I moved I lived in Israel for many years and I moved to Providence a few months ago my wife is doing an academic project here so we all moved together with the kids.

Track 3:

[31:21] But I love as I mentioned I love Israeli music I'm, there's not much to plug I'm trying to start a band that would play covers of Israeli songs which is challenging in the united states i it's i'm slowly finding some people to do that but there's not much to say about this right now uh but uh you know you can you can find in the future there might be a band that we can look for hopefully and uh then i would maybe um i would i would probably i would probably mostly play uh covers of israeli music or maybe in the loop on that amir maybe an occasional pavement song what's that keep me in the loop on that shoot me an email when you get it going and I'll talk about it on the pod. I haven't tried that. Maybe an occasional pavement song. Yeah, that would be cool. Well, like I say, it's been a blast spending this time with you today. I really appreciate you doing this heavy lifting on a podcast that is ostensibly yours.

Track 3:

[32:21] So, thank you very much for that and make sure to wash your goddamn hands.

jD is back and he's got a lot to talk about including a sweet contest brought to you by our pal Steve West! Check it out and don't forget to rate and review the pod. Get the track from today's episode here: https://apple.co/2Xiftz5

jD is back and this week he has his eyes opened by the lyrics of Extradition! Purchase the track from this week here: https://apple.co/2yO7bXI

jD is back again with another track from Pavement's 3rd LP Wowee Zowee, Father to a Sister of Thought! Grab today's song here: https://apple.co/2yAPyKH

jD sits down with Pavement's drummer Steve West to discuss his joining the band, Wowee Zowee and to spin a couple of tunes from his new band Unmastered Masters.

Today on the pod jD turns over the record to spin track 1 on side 2 of Wowee Zowee, Motion Suggests Itself. There's also some housekeeping about a live concert watch along and some emails. The whole thing clocks in at around 20 minutes. If you want to purchase the track from today's show please click here: https://apple.co/2SlNr49

jD is back at it again this week talking about the 6th track on Wowee Zowee, Serpentine Pad. To purchase this song go here: https://apple.co/3bkvKta

Today jD is joined by Parker and Jordon from the Indie Band Width podcast to discuss Grounded. Get the song here: https://apple.co/3bkvKta

jD is back with a special guest as Bob Nastanovich joins him to talk about Wowee Zowee! You'll also hear two version of the 4th track on the LP, Brinx Job. To buy the track visit: https://apple.co/2UYR2Hb

jD is back talking about the third track on the Wowee Zowee LP, Black Out. Check it out and purchase the track from today's episode here: https://apple.co/2UDAjIY

jD is back, sort of. Enjoy a repeat of Rattled by the Rush from an earlier episode covering the Rattled by la Rush EP. You can get the song from today's podcast here: https://apple.co/37JN20n

This week on the pod I'm thrilled to be joined by Rebecca Clay Cole motherfuckers! We talk about her Pavement origin story, to joining the band on key, and breaking down song number 29!

Transcript:

Track 2:

[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50.

Track 1:

[0:02] At track 30, we have Spit on a Stranger. What the hell do you make of this song, Devin? I'm really glad I got this song because I love this song. And the thing about this song is that there's a real tension within the song that truly appeals to me. because I believe that musically and in the verses, this is the most romantic song that Pavement has ever recorded.

Track 2:

[0:31] Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band, Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown.

Track 3:

[0:39] Hey, it's JD here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for Seminole Indie Rock Band, Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballads. I then tabulated the results using an abacus and all my fingers on my left hand, except for my thumb. Fuck you, thumb. How will your favorite songs fare in the rankings? Well, you'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that.

Track 2:

[1:06] This week, we're joined by Pavement superfan, well, not Pavement superfan, Pavement superstar, Rebecca fucking Clay Cole. Rebecca, how the hell are you?

Track 4:

[1:17] Hello, I actually, I'm a fan. I don't know if I'm a super fan, because I've met some super fans. And I don't know if I have the level of technical knowledge. But I'm a fan and in the band. So nice to meet you.

Track 3:

[1:30] Nice to meet you as well. You definitely have the technical knowledge. I saw you guys play on the 22 reunion tour eight times, I think. And it was tremendous. I had so much fun. I was at the Fonda show. I saw two shows in Toronto and then like six shows in London.

Track 4:

[1:48] Oh, great.

Track 3:

[1:49] Or not London, but UK.

Track 4:

[1:51] Cool.

Track 3:

[1:52] So very, a lot of fun.

Track 4:

[1:54] A good range of shows there.

Track 3:

[1:55] Yeah, I think so. I was pleased. I wanted to go to Iceland really bad, but that didn't fall on the cards.

Track 4:

[2:02] Well, maybe we'll be in Iceland again someday.

Track 3:

[2:04] That would be cool.

Track 4:

[2:05] Join us if that happens.

Track 3:

[2:07] I will do that. So let's get right to the punch here and talk about, this is sort of funny to be talking about something, Sort of funny to be talking with somebody in the band about their Pavement Origins story, but obviously you came late to the band, and we'll talk about that. I really want to know what it's like to join a band that's an established band, but hasn't been on the road in a while. I want to know that as well, but I really want to know your Pavement Origins story.

Track 4:

[2:36] My Pavement Origins story. Well, I think the first time I was aware of Pavement was when they were opening for Sonic Youth. It was maybe Sonic Youth Mudhoney Pavement at Red Rocks.

Track 3:

[2:52] Oh, really?

Track 4:

[2:53] They were the first band to play and I had never heard of them. I hadn't heard of much because at this point I think I was six months in Denver. And before that I'd lived like on a farm and on an island. So I had no cultural touchstones at all for a teenager. I was really, I wouldn't say ignorant, but I just sort of formed my own musical education. I'd never been to a punk show. There were no punk shows in the Virgin Islands, you know, or in the farm in Kentucky. So all of that is to say some friends took me to Red Rocks to see this show. And Pavement was the first band. So that was my first introduction to Pavement.

Track 3:

[3:29] And what did you think?

Track 4:

[3:31] I did not understand it. I didn't understand it at all. But Gary was in fine form, and I remember not spending a lot of time behind his kit. And I just was confused what the performance was. I didn't understand it. I didn't have the language to understand it at the time.

Track 3:

[3:49] That's phenomenal. And Red Rocks, to boot. I've never been, but it's supposed to be just a fantastic venue, right?

Track 4:

[3:59] Maybe Pavement can play it again with me.

Track 3:

[4:02] Oh, that's awesome.

Track 4:

[4:04] I'll just plant that seed out there to the universe.

Track 3:

[4:06] Yeah.

Track 4:

[4:07] We'd like it to grow.

Track 3:

[4:08] So where did it go from there? Did you... At what point did you click? Did it go, oh, yeah, I get this?

Track 4:

[4:17] You know, not much later. Maybe a year or two later, I was... I found myself joined into an indie band. And this was 90... 94 maybe okay um 93 94 95 for sure um and so pavement was of course i should maybe it's not and of course but it was just like a touchstone you know it was like they were one of the coolest bands doing it and someone that everyone in my scene looked up to very very greatly and so i saw them touring wawi zawi they had my friends the apples and stereo opening for them for a section of that tour and so I got to see that show with Apple's opening which was great um so yeah I would say Wowie Zowie was that era where I like I definitely remember thrifting for my first set of stage clothes for the Minders like listening to that cassette going to the thrift store with my friend Tammy oh.

Track 3:

[5:12] That's a cool memory.

Track 4:

[5:13] Getting ready for our first gig yeah.

Track 3:

[5:15] That's so cool what What was the name.

Track 4:

[5:17] Of the band? The Minders.

Track 3:

[5:19] The Minders. Is there anything out there that people can find?

Track 4:

[5:24] Yeah. Check it out.

Track 3:

[5:26] Yeah, I will definitely check that out. Yeah. So from there, we fast forward a number of years, and it's now 2021, I'm guessing, when you got the call, or was it early in 2022?

Track 4:

[5:43] I actually, Steven had asked me in 2020, 19.

Track 3:

[5:50] Oh, right. Because they were going to go on the road in 2020.

Track 4:

[5:54] Because the Jicks were at Primavera, I think.

Track 3:

[5:59] Okay.

Track 4:

[5:59] If I'm not mistaken. This is how I remember it in my time. I'm friends with Joanna. She played briefly in The Minders. And we're just really close in addition to that. And the rest of the Jicks. I'm friends with all the Jicks. But anyway, Stephen had asked me about 2020 and not to tell anyone. And so I hadn't. And so then somehow, because they were in Barcelona, he must have mentioned that I was doing it or that it was happening or someone in Barcelona. I don't know. But I got a lot of angry texts from the jigs like, why didn't you tell us?

Track 3:

[6:30] Oh, man.

Track 4:

[6:31] It's like, well, I was asked not to say anything to anyone. It was really hard. I'm glad someone knows now.

Track 3:

[6:37] You're a person of your word. That's great.

Track 4:

[6:39] In this one case, I was, yeah. Usually I'm that terrible gossip. it so.

Track 3:

[6:45] That happens and then obviously covet happens so that doesn't that doesn't you know pan out but 2022 comes around and you guys all assemble in portland to um to jam and to rehearse like a shitload of songs.

Track 4:

[7:04] What was what.

Track 3:

[7:06] Was that like for you how much prep work did you have to do going into that.

Track 4:

[7:11] Um I took it pretty seriously and I did a lot of prep work I pretty much took the three months before those rehearsals were just me rehearsing for rehearsals and I set up my my rig basically the same rig I use live I set up a version of that in my living room, with a mixer and an amp and like you know tried all sorts of different keyboard configurations and tried to figure out what I wanted to use live. And then from there, sort of figuring out, you know, there was programming a lot of sounds. It was important for me to learn the catalog in such a way that, that my goal was like if steven just played any riff like kind of randomly started noodling it that i would be able to know like the song its title where to find it in my notes like does it have keyboard and do i have that part ready to go or percussion or vocals or anything so that was sort of the level i wanted to be prepared for practice the first full band rehearsal which i I think, actually, I think I met my goal. I took, I had extensive notes.

Track 3:

[8:16] You posted them on social, right?

Track 4:

[8:18] I think Bob posted that picture first.

Track 3:

[8:21] Yeah, yeah.

Track 4:

[8:22] I was surprised you wanted to, like, but yeah. Those were the distilled notes. I mean, like, some songs have pages and pages where I've just painstakingly, like, transcribed, you know, using music notation, like, how the part looks on the sheet so I could read it and understand it that way. Other notes are a little more esoteric and squiggly. So yeah, that was the prep, three months of that. And I got, of course, by the end thought I wasn't ready at all. And then I showed up to practice and realized I was pretty ready.

Track 3:

[9:00] So you walk into the room. I'm sorry to keep painting these pictures. But you walk into the room, and this is an established group of people. Although they haven't seen each other in 10 years probably or close to or some of them haven't seen each other. How difficult is that to insert yourself or be inserted in something that is already established like that?

Track 4:

[9:25] And something I love. Not just like something that it's established for me in that way.

Track 3:

[9:32] Yeah.

Track 4:

[9:33] It was sort of heavy actually. I made it heavy in the preparation I guess. Like, I was nervous. I was very nervous about, uh... I mean, it sounds silly to say now that I've spent some years with them, but I was just hoping everyone would like me. Not like personally, necessarily, but what I'm bringing to the songs. Was everyone in the band equally on board with having a keyboard player? Am I stepping on any parts? At first, I was concerned, does Bob still want to play some keyboard lines?

Track 3:

[10:06] Oh, yeah.

Track 4:

[10:07] I wasn't quite sure how it had all come to be. And so I just, I, I, I walked in to not timidly, but just like trying to get a read before I really started asserting myself. But I, but then I forget my filter only lasts for a little bit. And then it's like within an hour or two, I think it was fine.

Track 3:

[10:27] Oh, that's so cool to hear. Yeah.

Track 4:

[10:29] I forget to be nervous. And then I'm just myself for better or for worse.

Track 3:

[10:33] No, that's great. great so from there we go to LA and we go to the Fonda show which I gotta tell you that show like kicked all sorts of ass that was so good you guys played so long and such a varied like we didn't know going into it that the set list was going to be as varied as it was um you know we We knew that you guys had practiced a lot of songs, but it just, it was surreal. What was it like for you?

Track 4:

[11:06] Surreal.

Track 3:

[11:07] Surreal as well.

Track 4:

[11:08] I mean, we'd done all, we'd done the rehearsal in Portland and, you know, the team, you know, for musical building, but also for me, some team building, like who are these guys exactly? And like, and then we did some practice in LA on a soundstage before the Fonda as well. And I was nervous. It wasn't even like I was nervous. I was just unsure. I was really unsure what to expect. I now had practiced with them for like eight days, and I had watched so much YouTube of them live. But I hadn't been on stage to feel, like I wasn't sure what I was going to feel on stage, if that makes sense, like how it was actually going to feel to perform the music.

Track 4:

[11:48] And like rehearsal and performance are two different energies. Strategies, just wasn't sure what I was going to get from the five guys as far as all that went.

Track 4:

[11:56] And I also was really unsure what I was going to get from the crowd. It's like, I was like, yeah, I have eight days of practice with them. Like, I feel pretty good that they like my contribution. But now the question is, like, does anyone else like the contribution? Is it going to work?

Track 4:

[12:12] Will it be unfavorably compared? I had a lot a lot of that swirling in my head i was and it was uh yeah i wouldn't say nerves both under and overstates the situation it wasn't like i was shaking in my boots but it felt heavier than that it was like too heavy to be shaken in my boots but then steven did this really cool thing and maybe he could tell i was nervous i i will also say i don't think i was the only one with jitters i think they also hadn't played out in over a decade together so a lot of those questions maybe they're asking themselves as well um but steven rallied us really classic but and maybe like a little maybe it seemed pat to say it now but at the time it felt really good but he was just reminded us all that we practiced hard and it was going to be fun um and it's the strangest thing jd because as we walked on stage all of that tension left and that's really gifts that's been the hugest gift for me of playing in this band I got it on the first show and it's no fear it was just like this is fun these guys are fun the energy is fun and that is how it feels on stage to play with them I learned that night the reason the tension goes away is because it's about something.

Track 4:

[13:34] More important than And like, did you execute your part properly?

Track 3:

[13:37] Right.

Track 4:

[13:38] You know, it's like, are you in the right head and heart space? And they probably don't use these words for it. This is how I'm describing it. You know, to make the music matter, there has to be a feeling there. And they all excel at that. It turns out I had nothing to be worried about. Pure joy being on stage with those guys.

Track 3:

[13:54] Okay, I'm curious about your favorite songs to play. What are some that you had a lot of fun with?

Track 4:

[14:02] I mean, they're all so fun. And I'm not just saying that, I mean.

Track 3:

[14:06] No, that's cool.

Track 4:

[14:07] They're all pretty fun to play. Even when I'm just shaking a tambourine half of one chorus or something of a song, it's like, I can't believe I get to play the tambourine on this part. They didn't just invite me up. They're paying me to come up here and play this tambourine part.

Track 3:

[14:26] That's so cool.

Track 4:

[14:27] It's just like, what a dream gig.

Track 3:

[14:29] Yeah. I love how you did Trigger Cut, like how you did the sha-la-la-la-las in Trigger Cut.

Track 4:

[14:35] Oh, yeah. So cool. That's so fun. That's really fun. And that is a fun one to play. Like, obviously, like, anything that finds just me and Bob, like, in a tambourine party is fun. Like, any, you know, the more tambourines, the better. It's always good. It's always fun. That's just, there's never a night where I look up and see Bob playing tambourine and don't immediately get completely lifted.

Track 3:

[14:57] Oh, that's so cool.

Track 4:

[14:59] So anything where I'm doing that is fun. Working out something like Embassy Row was kind of fun because we, like, practiced the beginning part and, you know, then it rocks at the end. It's sort of like seeing those songs kind of work out in practice and then singing.

Track 2:

[15:13] Yeah, yeah, I get that. So what do you think? Should we get into the track, song 29?

Track 4:

[15:24] Let's do it. So it ranks 29 of 50?

Track 2:

[15:27] That's right, yeah. We'll be back on the other side with Rebecca Clay Cole. Hey, this is Bob Mastandovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening, and now on with a countdown. 29!

Track 3:

[21:05] There it is, the sixth song from Bright in the Corners on the Top 50 Countdown, also the sixth song on the record. This week, we're talking about song 29, the fantastic, the jammy type Slowly. Rebecca, what is your relationship with this song?

Track 4:

[21:21] Oh, I love this song so much. I mean, it wasn't on my first wave of songs to study, even though I knew we were going to play it. But it wasn't like, you know, there are other songs I felt like I had to nail more. So this was towards the end. I said, OK, let me get into this type slowly jam. And putting on the hat of Stephen playing that piano part and like figuring out where he put his hands and why for that song on that recording was like. I feel like a little peek behind the curtain there to the mind of the man.

Track 3:

[22:02] Wow.

Track 4:

[22:03] Because I play the piano most. That's my primary instrument. And so thinking about how he was approaching the piano on that song was cool. And I scored every note out. There's a score that I've written of everything he does. Because everything he did was so cool. And I wanted to be sure to capture not all of it verbatim, just understanding where he was coming from with all of those parts. So by the time we played it live, I had that sort of intimate relationship with it where I had been in my headphones on an edible and just flying high and really getting into the, was that a 32nd note rest or a 16th note rest? Really too over-processed on that probably, but in a fun way for me because that's how my brain works. And so by the time we put it live and I got to sort of use some of that and throw some of that out, it just kind of became a song in the set I always liked to see. I always like to see Types Lully in the set.

Track 3:

[23:09] That's fantastic. I like to see it as well. Bright in the Corners is one of my favorites. So I'm glad to see it's represented a lot on this top 50 list. And there's definitely more to come from Bright in the Corners. What do you think in terms of this ranking do you think it's properly rated overrated underrated like you seemed surprised when you said 29 out of 50 a and I don't know what that what that surprise meant.

Track 4:

[23:39] Yeah, I guess I don't know either, because I don't know what's 50 to 30.

Track 3:

[23:46] Right.

Track 4:

[23:46] So that's one of the things. So I don't know what came behind it. I can probably guess half of what's ahead, at least. But I don't know. To me, I think of it as a live track.

Track 3:

[24:00] Oh, OK.

Track 4:

[24:01] A song that was built for live. And I don't know if it was. but it just takes it takes so much life on on the stage um that it's almost like one of those songs that was made to do that when.

Track 3:

[24:18] You guys got it prepared to go on the road did you know you were going to do the jams in it or was that sort of like organic on the road the.

Track 4:

[24:29] Jams are organic they had jammed that song before so it wasn't a surprise at all that they'd be jamming and And the song as it is on the record is a bit of a jam. I mean, I did count it out measure for measure for the purpose of my scholastic exercise, but I knew we weren't going to deliver that just like that on stage. If I had to get out the sheet music to make sure I could make sense of it, I mean, no, you know, it's not worth that. So I knew there would be jams and the jams changed. Changed you know it was it's the for me type slowly is the most me i get to be on stage with pavement oh wow because i'm not yeah well it's a jam and so and there's a lot of freedom in the jam for me on the piano because the part was free to write it was very free freely written kind of thing and in and out play when i want don't play when i want stop playing the piano and just shake something else for a while or play one note and whatever I do kind of seems to work I don't even think Stephen has me in his monitor so it's not like but in my mind maybe he does but in my mind it's like you know the guitars and me and then I'm and sometimes I'm with the rhythm I'm kind of I get to jump into everyone's show on that song like I'll be with Mark for a couple minutes.

Track 4:

[25:51] Then I'll jump over and watch Steve West and then it's like what's Bob doing and then oh yeah yeah, Stephen's doing something cool. Let me pop over. Let me get my attention back over to the guitar and see what's going on. And Spiral will come over and jam. So for me in the set, that's like my most, I'm not really thinking about it as a pavement song, monolithic and unchangeable. I think about it as like a pavement song in the now that's still being kind of designed.

Track 3:

[26:17] Oh, that's a really cool way to look at it. Live music is, there's a singer that I've heard say that a song isn't finished until you play it live. You know, like you've got it written and performed, but until you take it on the stage, it sort of hasn't fully gestated.

Track 4:

[26:38] I think that might be true. Yeah. A song like this might never gestate. It might never be done. It's just a grower.

Track 3:

[26:47] Yeah, that's a good way to think of it.

Track 4:

[26:49] You know, it's always going to evolve live. Like, I'm sure the next time we play it, there'll be something that's not. Everyone takes different positions. musicians and yeah and then sometimes steve west will think it's time to end type slowly, and it's not or sometimes we're like we could totally end it like why hasn't it ended or and sometimes i'm the one out there like i'm still playing and it's like oh crap we're already to the next verse and i'm still oh the clouds like it just is so loose like that i love it you could never do it the same way twice which is probably why i love it so much that's.

Track 3:

[27:23] Very pavement as well Wow. It seems very pavement. Yeah.

Track 4:

[27:27] On brand.

Track 3:

[27:28] Is there anything else you want to say about Type Slowly?

Track 4:

[27:35] Um, no, there's nothing I really want to say about Type Slowly. I was wondering if you were going to ask me about Slowly Typed.

Track 3:

[27:42] Oh, I didn't even know. I didn't.

Track 4:

[27:45] But you didn't. So no, we don't, we don't have to talk about Slowly Typed.

Track 3:

[27:48] Well, now that you've opened the door. I would like to hear your thoughts.

Track 4:

[27:52] I mean, my only thought about Slowly Typed is that it shows the way that the scaffold that song hangs on now into that live jam that it's played on, I think, is how it was meant to be. Or how it does its boast power. The Slowly Typed version is, not going to ever be a nine minute epic live jam okay maybe i mean maybe i don't know maybe i'll throw that challenge out for the next round of shows but yeah um so i just think that's sort of an interesting thing to think about like i actually looked when i was doing all my homework for this tour i thought okay let me go see like if there's any like live slowly typed nine minute jams i can find on YouTube. And I couldn't find any, only the type slowly jams.

Track 3:

[28:40] It's, it's wild how YouTube has changed things, right? Like, I mean, the fact that you can just go and like, look at these shows to, to do your notations and to do the things that you want to do very neat that you didn't have to sort of fly by the seat of your pants.

Track 4:

[28:54] I mean, it felt like I was flying by the seat of my pants. But no doubt it was helpful. Like, because you listen to something on record, and it's like okay that's on record a record that was recorded 30 years ago and this band has probably played it live 500 times since then so they don't remember their body memory of the song is probably not like the recording version it's like some live version somewhere that i need to go find and there were a couple other songs not type slowly where i was sort of playing it true to the record and it would be like don't do that i'm like but it's like exactly this is exactly the parts too much or it's you know and i'm like and then i realized it's just oh yeah right because it hasn't been there for 30 years. So it's good to go back and look at the live versions of things to just sort of watch, kind of like what you just said about how a song, it doesn't really go until it's performed for an audience. But if you've performed that song for 30 years, it might have traveled somewhat from the recorded version.

Track 3:

[29:51] Yeah, I would guess so, now that you've said it. It wasn't something I considered before, but now that you've said it, It's like, yeah, that seems pretty clear.

Track 4:

[30:02] Yeah, I found that to be on a lot of songs. So YouTube was a really great resource. I would just be like listening to something. I'm like, there's no way Bob played this live on the keyboard. But I know he played the keyboard. So then I'd go back and watch the live version and watch what he was doing on keyboard and split the difference between Stephen's part recorded and Bob's part live.

Track 3:

[30:21] Oh, okay.

Track 4:

[30:21] But use that YouTube as a, it was a great resource for me. And it still is. I learn a lot of songs in general. So it's usually a little goldmine of knowledge.

Track 3:

[30:30] Are you always are you always finding yourself noodling and learning stuff yes yeah yeah i can't.

Track 4:

[30:39] Really not think about it.

Track 3:

[30:41] Just listening to you talk so far it's like yeah you seem to have that very analytical you know sort of uh view of things right um like to to to do this which is yeah i think.

Track 4:

[30:55] I'm more analytical than a lot of uh musicians or at least my creative flow is in an analytical way I like math, I like charts I like spreadsheets, and that just really helps me get into my own flows of things even when I was trying to figure out I went over to a friend of mine's studio when I first started learning these pavement songs and I was just like help, I don't even know where to start, there's like maybe a hundred songs, I just didn't even I'm like how do I even and start it.

Track 3:

[31:29] Yeah.

Track 4:

[31:30] And he was like, make a spreadsheet. That's what you do. And I totally did that. I made a spreadsheet with the album, the song. Does it have piano? Does it have percussion? Does it need me to go find some kind of synthesizer sound? I don't know what. Just like I made a spreadsheet, and that's how I, yeah, I'm pretty analytical. Yes.

Track 3:

[31:50] That's a pavement first, I would think, a spreadsheet.

Track 4:

[31:55] Well, for the music, maybe. Maybe. Maybe there's... No, I bet there's got to be a set list spreadsheet.

Track 3:

[32:01] Oh, okay.

Track 4:

[32:03] That's a lot to keep track of. Yeah.

Track 3:

[32:05] Maybe not.

Track 4:

[32:05] Maybe Bob does it all from his heart and head. But maybe if I were him, I would... But then again, I'm the one that loves the spreadsheets.

Track 3:

[32:14] Right. Yeah. Well, Rebecca, it's been dynamite talking to you. You know, especially seeing as it's tough to... It's been tough to hear from you these last couple of years, like to read in magazines or stuff like that. I haven't, you know, I haven't seen a tremendous amount of pavement information with you included. So this is really special to me. I'm really thankful that you decided to stop by and do this.

Track 4:

[32:44] Yeah, thanks for asking. It's fun to talk about it because it's just like a really fun experience that I've gotten to have. And I'm like the luckiest music fan on earth, I think, in certain ways.

Track 3:

[32:54] Oh, that's a great way to wrap it. That is great. Thank you so much.

Track 4:

[32:59] Thank you. Good luck with the rest of the countdown.

Track 3:

[33:01] All right. Wash your hands. Wash your goddamn hands.

Track 2:

[33:05] Thanks for listening to Meeting Malcolmists, a pavement podcast where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you. If you've got questions or concerns, please shoot me an email. JD at Meeting Malcolmists dot com. Oh.

jD is back to discuss the artwork on Pavement's 3rd long play with Bobby from Atlanta, and then he digs in on We Dance.

Stuck at home because of the Corona Virus? Well, jD is here and he brought music! On this episode jD outlines a playlist he created with your help and plays three tracks from it.

Apple Playlist: https://apple.co/2Qr3bC5

Spotify Playlist: https://spoti.fi/2UjiUnE

jD is resting and relaxing in Florida but he still found the time to talk about the last track on the Rattled by la Rush EP, Easily Fooled. Check it out won't you. And while you're at it rate and review the show. You can purchase the track from today's show here: https://apple.co/2VX91yj