Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast – Details, episodes & analysis

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Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast

Barry Joseph & Broadway Podcast Network

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Frequency: 1 episode/11d. Total Eps: 32

Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast in an open invitation into the puzzle-loving, game-designing mind of Broadway legend Stephen Sondheim. Based on the acclaimed book by Barry Joseph, each episode uncovers the hidden world of Sondheim’s lifelong passion for treasure hunts, cryptic crosswords, parlor games, and more. Join Barry and his guests—puzzle-makers, game designers, and Sondheim aficionados—as they explore how Sondheim's playful designs delivered moments of clarity and connection for friends, colleagues, and anyone who's ever been captivated by his genius. Whether you’re a musical theater fan, a puzzlehead, or just Sondheim-curious, this series invites you to match minds with Sondheim. Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.

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#31-Matching Minds as Text Book

Friday, July 24, 2026 • Duration 38:45

This episode looks at how Matching Minds with Sondheim is used as a college textbook. Eric Zimmerman describes integrating the book’s design-principle lists into a puzzle unit at New York University where students build puzzles under constraints, while former student A. Raph Corwin explains how Sondheim’s principles shaped her narrative puzzle work and led to founding Pigeon’s Path Games, creating location-specific outdoor puzzle game books such as A Haunting in Greenwich Village. 00:00 Scam Warning Intro 09:56 Episode Setup and Guests 12:19 Eric Class Breakdown 14:55 Puzzle Unit in Practice 17:03 Sondheim Meets Game Design 18:29 Teaching with Principles 22:15 Rules Literacy and Humor 24:14 Design Principle Spotlight 25:25 Workshops to Business 28:47 Pigeons Path Games Launch 30:32 Praise and Viability Lessons 33:35 Wrap Up and Credits Special Links: Eric Zimmerman A. Raff Corwin and Pigeon Path Games NYU’s Game Center Colm Molloy Ann Morrison Mateo Chavez Lewis Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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#30-Sondheim and Board Games

Tuesday, June 30, 2026 • Duration 43:24

Our latest episode focuses on welcoming NYU Game Center co-founder Eric Zimmerman to discuss Stephen Sondheim’s board game designs as experience-forward, theatrical “art pieces.” Barry and Eric examine Sondheim’s 1953 game Stardom (or The Game of Camp), inspired by a Hollywood stars’ homes map and featuring rituals, hidden goals, props, and a climb through stardom by secretly “sleeping with” assigned actresses; Joseph shares Sondheim’s letter registering the rules and stating intent to market the game, plus notes on possible re-skins. They also discuss Sondheim’s birthday game for producer Hal Prince (Producer/The Game of Hal Prince), using hand-typed cards with gossip, critics, and Broadway’s economic systems, and Sondheim’s three-game 50th-birthday set for Leonard Bernstein, The Great Conductor Hunt—Diploma (with recorded “chance” audio), Itinerary, and the Lucite mazed Podium (two designed by Milton Glaser). 00:00 Theater Meets Games 00:49 Meet Eric Zimmerman 03:23 Games as Art Culture 05:58 Trivia and Ritual Start 07:26 Stardom Camp Hollywood 14:35 Rules Hidden Goals 19:22 Props and Commercial Plans 23:31 The Game of Producer for Hal Prince 27:42 The Great Conductor Hunt for Leonard Bernstein 35:40 Stars are shining bright! Special Links: Eric Zimmerman NYU’s Game Center Colm Molloy Ann Morrison Mateo Chavez Lewis Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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#29-A Mash-up of Topics Raised with me About Sondheim

Episode 29

Tuesday, May 26, 2026 • Duration 59:12

It’s a mash-up! Producer Dennis Caouki weaves together audio from two recent interviews—one with mathematician Art Benjamin (via the National Museum of Mathematics’ Starring Math webinar series) and one from Shoshana Greenberg’s Scene to Song podcast—into a single conversation. The combined interview explores Sondheim’s connections to math, puzzles, and games; cryptic crosswords; design values like misdirection and accessibility; and how those ideas appear in Sondheim’s work (including Into the Woods, A Little Night Music, Sweeney Todd, Company, and Pacific Overtures). The discussion also touches on Schmigadoon! season two’s Sondheim-inspired mashups, Hadestown, The Last of Sheila, and the Knives Out films as modern homages. 00:00 Podcast Updates Ahead 00:27 Audiobook Booth Stories 03:05 Two Interviews One Episode 05:35 Meet Barry Joseph 08:49 Hadestown As Ritual 10:10 Sondheim And Math Roots 11:45 Math In A Little Night Music 15:28 Into The Woods London Take 19:50 CD-ROM Game That Never Was 22:58 Sondheim Puzzle Design Values 26:15 Treasure Hunt Phone Puzzle 27:58 Puzzles For Anybody 29:13 Matching Minds Explained 29:59 Inside Sondheim’s Mind 31:18 Bernstein Puzzle Rivalry 32:49 Lyrics as Game Design 37:38 Cryptic Crosswords Explained 39:54 Solving a Clue Live 43:27 Games in the Shows 45:57 Knives Out Homages 47:41 Schmigadoon Mashup Magic 53:15 Broadway Hopes and Farewell Special Links: Scene to Song with Shoshana Greenberg Art Benjamin - ThatMathShow.com Colm Molloy Ann Morrison Mateo Chavez Lewis Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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#28-Sondheim and Puzzle Boxes, with David Staller

Tuesday, April 14, 2026 • Duration 55:23

Our latest episode focuses on Stephen Sondheim’s fascination with puzzle boxes, featuring guest David Staller, founding artistic director of the Gingold Theatrical Group. Staller describes his Shaw-inspired connection to Sondheim through Hermione Gingold, their friendship and correspondence, and Sondheim’s attraction to puzzles as finite, controllable structures that offered relief from the chaos of human relationships and creative pressures. The episode includes rare audio from Sondheim’s Games Magazine interview about collecting and admiring puzzle boxes, plus excerpts from Barry’s interview with puzzle-box designer Kagen Sound (on learning Sondheim was a client and seeing his boxes in the film Six by Sondheim). Staller recounts gifting Sondheim puzzle boxes (including Japanese artisan-made boxes), treasure-hunt parties and movie-themed murder mysteries, a final unopened birthday box returned after Sondheim’s death, and finding a hidden note during the 2024 Doyle auction. He also describes Sondheim’s love for, and association with the boy-star of, the comic strip Calvin and Hobbes. 00:00 Everything Is A Puzzle 01:44 Meet Guest David Staller 02:55 Shaw Connection To Sondheim 05:11 Why Games Felt Safe 07:54 Discovering Puzzle Boxes 08:46 What Puzzle Boxes Are 10:37 Sondheim On Puzzle Boxes 12:47 Voice Memories And Boxes 16:59 Japanese Artisan And Last Box 19:40 Opening The Box Onstage 21:53 What Was Inside The Box 23:25 Treasure Hunts And Movie Trivia 26:04 Thin Man Roleplaying Games 26:44 Movie Roleplay Mystery 28:34 Home Treasure Hunt 30:30 Sondheim Grammar Patrol 32:16 Puzzle Boxes Meaning 33:49 Kagen Sound Spotlight 36:04 Boxes On The Piano 38:04 Auction Hidden Note 39:42 Objects And Legacy 42:22 Calvin And Hobbes 47:31 Life As A Puzzle Special Links: David Staller Gingold Theatrical Group Kagen Sound Andrew Parr Colm Molloy Ann Morrison Mateo Chavez Lewis Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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#27- Two "Little" Sondheim Treasure Hunts

Tuesday, April 7, 2026 • Duration 01:12:48

Join Barry Joseph and guests David Spira (Room Escape Artist) and Rachel Allen Duncan (Watson Adventures) to explore why Stephen Sondheim designed treasure hunts for decades, focusing on two with related names: the 1973 A Little Night Music Treasure Hunt at the Shubert Theatre and the 2011 A Little Jurassic Treasure Hunt at the American Museum of Natural History. Performers George Lee Andrews and Marti Morris recall the Shubert cast-party hunt co-devised with Anthony Perkins, where puzzle-photo team formation led to lyric-based clues hidden around the theater. Event producer Brigid Walsh describes producing the 2011 fundraiser hunt hosted by Sarah Jessica Parker and Matthew Broderick for Friends In Deed, including wax-sealed packets, team coordinators, dinosaur-hall clue cards, a meta-puzzle, and a final reveal involving a freight elevator, toy dinosaurs, and a hidden prize. Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, ⁠⁠or click here⁠⁠. 00:00 Sondheim Human Touch 01:43 Meet The Guests 03:24 Two Little Hunts 04:55 Show And Memories 06:43 Cast Interview Begins 11:19 Shubert Hunt Story 15:49 Ice Cream Interlude 17:12 Design Takeaways 24:35 Clue Sheet Breakdown 30:43 Weddings And Hunts 32:48 Wedding Puzzle Talk 33:47 Sondheim Museum Hunt Setup 35:47 Designing the Venue 39:20 Watching Players Lose It 41:55 Why Museums Work 43:46 Dino Hall Game Ideas 46:03 Inside the Hunt Packet 50:49 Rules and Meta Puzzle 55:55 Clues and Cheating 58:44 Spoilers Final Solve 01:01:37 Prizes and Reflections 01:04:15 Sondheim Takeaways 01:06:31 Plugs and Signoff Special Links: Room Escape Artist Reality Escape Pod Watson Adventures AMNH Dinosaurs Colm Molloy Ann Morrison Mateo Chavez Lewis Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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#26-Researching Sondheim--A Repod of Matching Minds on the Dr. Broadway Podcast

Tuesday, March 24, 2026 • Duration 37:18

A conversation about Matching Minds from the Dr. Broadway podcast with Dr. Tracey Brent-Chessum and Dr. Kristin Stultz Pressley, focusing on researching Sondheim’s lifelong puzzle-and-game design—from cryptic crosswords and treasure hunts to Atari sessions with John Weidman, escape rooms, puzzle boxes, and antique board-game collecting—and on Joseph’s methods, interviews, archival work, publishing journey with Applause/Bloomsbury, and ongoing efforts to place materials in institutions like NYPL, the Library of Congress, and the Strong Museum. Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, ⁠⁠or click here⁠⁠. 00:00 Podcast Welcome 03:01 Introducing Dr Broadway 06:14 Barry’s Sondheim Journey 07:25 Games For Change Background 09:35 Atari And Game Mechanics 11:36 Sondheim Designed Games 13:18 Walls Of Antique Boards 15:03 Research Methods Archives 16:18 Pandemic Timeline Interviews 16:43 Tracking Memories Ephemera 17:04 Unlocking Interviews 18:06 Honoring Emotional Memories 18:53 Documenting And Archiving 20:49 Publishing Puzzle Theater Hybrid 23:18 New York Times Breakthrough 25:27 Research Rigor And Impact 26:52 Biggest Sondheim Revelation 28:12 Questions For Sondheim 31:21 Ongoing Projects And Farewell Special Links: Dr. Broadway Podcast Colm Molloy Ann Morrison Mateo Chavez Lewis Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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#25-Writing Sondheim: A Conversation with Art Isn't Easy's Daniel Okrent

Tuesday, March 10, 2026 • Duration 58:45

Dan Okrent visits Matching Minds for his FIRST interview (woot! an exclusive) about his highly anticipated biography “Sondheim: Art Isn’t Easy” (pub. March 17). Okrent explains the project evolved from a short biographical essay into a thematic, research-heavy contemporary biography, drawing on extensive archives and interviews (including 38 people, many close collaborators), with early praise from John Weidman and James Lapine. They discuss why a new Sondheim biography is needed since Meryle Secrest’s work, why James Lapine described it as “The best that has been written about Steve,” the value of Secrest’s Yale interview tapes, and new Library of Congress material clarifying Sondheim’s account of his mother’s letter (“guilt” vs “regret”). Okrent connects Sondheim’s alcoholism, inhibition, revenge themes (notably in “Sweeney Todd”), and life arc from alienation to connection. Finally, Okrent and Barry reflect on their unusual, and quite remarkable, multiyear relationship with each other and with Michael Mitnick that supported both Art Isn’t Easy AND Matching Minds with Sondheim. Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, ⁠⁠or click here⁠⁠. 00:00 Art From Demons 00:55 Meet Dan Okrent 02:00 The Name Game 03:35 From Essay To Biography 07:39 Why Another Sondheim Book 09:26 Alcohol And Inhibition 12:23 Secrest Tapes At Yale 16:12 Sweeney Todd And Revenge 19:30 The Mother Letter Revisited 25:36 Password And Lee Remick 29:08 Writing For Insiders 29:40 Finding Your Reader 30:15 Writing for Insiders 31:43 The Missing Five Years 33:52 Procrastination or Passion 34:56 Alienation to Connection 36:13 Musicals That Connect 39:20 How Their Books Shaped Each Other 40:17 Archive Treasure Hunts 42:33 What Writing Revealed 43:53 A Collaborative Email Trio 49:53 The Creative New York Blob 51:20 Hopes and Farewell 53:23 Final Thanks and Signoff Special Links: Dan Okrent Colm Molloy Ann Morrison Mateo Chavez Lewis David Armstron’s Broadway Nation Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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#24-Matching Minds on Broadway Nation

Wednesday, February 25, 2026 • Duration 39:46

In this excerpt from David Armstrong’s Broadway Nation podcast, recorded at a studio overlooking the theater district, Barry and David compare their distinct, Broadway-themed, research-driven books, shared educator backgrounds, and surprising overlaps in their Sondheim publishing journeys. Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found,⁠ ⁠⁠or click here⁠⁠⁠. 00:00 Welcome and Setup 05:09 Hammerstein and Play 06:26 Carousel Treasure Hunt 07:10 Books in Conversation 09:12 Cover Photo and Publisher 10:49 Teaching and Podcast Paths 13:39 Hidden Puzzles Revealed 15:07 Puzzle vs Game Explained 17:20 Sondheim Video Games 18:46 Sondheim Plays Myst 19:21 Distraction Or Fuel 20:58 Cryptic Crossword Legacy 21:37 West Side Thursday Ritual 23:03 Treasure Hunt Vs Scavenger 25:06 1968 Hunt Cast 26:37 Lyrics As Puzzles 28:00 Cinerama Anagram Mind 30:54 Murder Game Origins 32:30 Finishing The Hat Link 34:06 Appropriately Obsessive 35:02 Closing Thanks And Tags Special Links: ⁠Colm Molloy⁠ ⁠Ann Morrison⁠ ⁠Mateo Chavez Lewis⁠ David Armstron’s ⁠Broadway Nation⁠ Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. And, of course, David Armstrong. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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#23-Matching Minds at BroadwayCon with Many Guests

Thursday, February 12, 2026 • Duration 35:32

Come with Matching Minds to BroadwayCon in New York City during a frigid snowstorm! This episode features special guests and Broadway stars Etai Benson, George Lee Andrews, and Marty Morris, sharing their connections with Sondheim's puzzles and games. Etai recounts receiving a custom, personalized jigsaw puzzle from Sondheim for his role in Company. George and Marty take us back 53 years to share memories of the Sondheim/Perkin’s Shubert Theater treasure hunt for the cast of A Little Night Music. The audience participates in live trivia rounds (play along from home) and a reenactment of Sondheim's famous Murder Game. And suffer through our attempt at a podcast theme-song sign-a-long… Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, ⁠⁠or click here⁠⁠. 00:00 Introduction to Matching Minds with Sondheim 00:05 Experiencing BroadwayCon in New York City 00:28 Diverse Activities at BroadwayCon 01:00 Sondheim's Puzzles and Games 01:28 Special Guests: Broadway Performers 02:41 Sondheim's Multifaceted Career 03:03 Sondheim's Influence and Legacy 04:16 Interactive Trivia and Games 05:41 Exploring Sondheim's Puzzles 09:47 Special Guests: George Lee Andrews and Marty Morris 17:26 A Visit to Steve Sondheim's House 18:05 Round Three: Word Puzzles 19:25 Round Four: Mechanical Puzzles 19:57 Special Guests: Etai Benson 25:46 Round Five: Parlor Games 26:34 The Murder Game 30:44 Conclusion: Matching Minds with Sondheim Special Links: Colm Molloy Ann Morrison Mateo Chavez Lewis Etai Benson George Lee Andrews Marti Morris BroadwayCon Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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#22-Stephen Sondheim and Cryptic Crosswords

Friday, January 30, 2026 • Duration 01:15:46

Today’s topic: Stephen Sondheim’s passion for cryptic crosswords. Joined by guests Natan Last, Katie Grogg, Ben Zimmer, and Galen Fott, the conversation explores Sondheim's 1968 stint as the puzzle editor for New York Magazine, his influence on the American cryptic crossword scene, and the connections between his musical works and love for puzzles. Through reflections on prior interviews with Richard Maltby, Jr., Will Shortz, Colm Molloy, and, yes, Sondheim himself, the episode highlights Sondheim’s legacy in both theater and the world of wordplay. Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, ⁠⁠or click here⁠⁠. 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Today's Topic 01:51 Meet the Guests: Crossword Enthusiasts and Experts 05:28 Discussing the New York Times Crossword Puzzle 07:51 Defining Cryptic Crosswords 10:30 Stephen Sondheim's Influence on Cryptic Crosswords 14:57 The British Cryptic Crossword Scene 22:29 Sondheim's Connection with British Crossword Constructors 32:39 Sondheim's Cryptic Crossword Journey Begins 33:33 American vs. British Crosswords: A Cultural Clash 34:41 Sondheim's Essay and Its Impact 35:44 Criticism and Parody in New York Magazine 41:34 Richard Maltby Jr. Takes Over 48:56 Sondheim's Cryptic Crossword Legacy 56:17 Modern Cryptic Crosswords and Sondheim's Influence 01:03:06 Final Thoughts and Reflections Special Links: Colm Molloy Ann Morrison Mateo Chavez Lewis “This Time It’s Crosswords (Not Cross Words) That Surface From Sondheim” New York Times, 2011. Galen Fott’s Blog Natan Last Ben Zimmer Katie Grogg Minute Cryptic Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast – Details, episodes & analysis

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Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast – Details, episodes & analysis

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