Attention is our employee's most equitable asset - but there's fierce competition for it. Marking the first episode of 2026, Ashley joins Giles Hearn, Chief Marketing Officer at The Learning and Performance Institute  and unpicks the challenges L&D are really facing. A meaty conversation for a meaty subject.  Get stuck in!

Do you ever think about how your learners feel? Not what they do, what they think, but what they feel? Emotions are a powerful tool that marketers leverage wherever possible. How can you use emotions in your learning function to get better results? 

When we mutter the phrase "internal comms" to many of our clients, we see them shudder. "Do we have to get them involved? They're always a blocker to our plans!" We've heard it all before...

So in this ep, Ash and Han address why internal comms *must* be involved in your marketing for learning initiatives, and how to make the whole thing smoother. 

Happy listening guys! 

LINKS:

• Internal comms, friend or foe?

Has Han lost the plot? Or should L&D really be eating dog food?

OK. She doesn't mean it literally, but eating your own dog food means using your product or service in the way a user would use it. And that means that L&D need to start learning – using the platforms and services we want our people to use. 

This bitesized episode will help you understand why using your own learning products helps L&D teams:

• Market their offering accurately and authentically 
• Improve empathy with their target audience
• Enhance, tweak and adapt their learning products. 

Happy listening! 

Your favourite duo is back to discuss a contentious topic in L&D: The Technology Trap. Of course, we all know technology is a critical tool in forward thinking L&D teams, but can it solve all of our issues? (Shock horror, Ash and Han don't think so!) 

In this episode we discuss: 

• The importance of understanding the user experience and the need for root cause analysis to understand engagement challenges. 
• Why audience centricity is key for future-proofing your L&D function. 
• The importance of aligning your strategy, to the business goals, then finding the right tech to enable your strategy. 

So whether you're a tech lover, or hater, or somewhere in between... we're sure this ep will give you loads of food for thought! 

L&D knows measurement matters. But when the pressure’s on to “prove impact,” most teams default to what’s easy, not what’s meaningful.

In this episode, we’re joined by Nelson Sivalingam to unpack how learning functions can shift from reporting activity to demonstrating real business value.

We explore:

• Why traditional learning metrics fall short
• How to connect learning with performance and behaviour change
• What it takes to embed measurement into the entire learning process, not just the end

This isn’t about dashboards or data overload. 

It’s about designing for outcomes from the start — and knowing what success actually looks like.

Because if you don’t define impact, you’ll never be able to prove it.

LINKS:

• Connect with Nelson on LinkedIn 
• Check out HowNow
• Fancy reading Nelson’s book, Learning at Speed? Grab your copy here.

It's a question many of us have pondered - could that learning module have just been an email? How much of my learning is actually just information that I could communicate in a different way? In this podcast, Ashley invites two industry experts to talk about the world of learning and whether L&D REALLY could be replaced by marketing and comms. 

SHOW NOTES: 

• Dr Heidi Kirby's LinkedIn
• Heidi's BLOC podcast
• Loren Sanders' LinkedIn 
• Loren's book 
• Ashley's LinkedIn

Coming at you LIVE from LEARNING LIVE 2024... Ash and Han discuss one topic that has come up numerous times during this event: Market Research. No, it's not a sexy topic. But it's critical for your marketing for learning® success. So in this bitesized episode, we tell you how and why research is so important in L&D.

LINKS:

• Our latest ebook
• Han's LinkedIn
• Ash's LinkedIn 

In this ep, Han is joined by Sam Goodman, L&D Manager at ITPEnergised. Sam is a teacher, who has transitioned over to L&D – and for that reason he has a super interesting take on engagement at all stages of the learning experience. 

This episode covers a range of topics, including:

• Contextualising learning for your audience
• The power of humility in learning and marketing 
• How a marketing mindset will help L&Ders

And as Han promised in the ep, here's the link to the Learner Personas guide.

• Han's LinkedIn 
• Sam's LinkedIn 

Competitions are a great tactic to boost engagement, right!? Welllllllll... Han disagrees. And in this podcast episode she explains why. Listen in to learn more about:

• The cobra effect
• The pitfalls of incentivising learning
• When you can use competitions or incentives (but Han is still reluctant!) 

LINKS:

• Han's Linkedin
• The AIDAL episode of the podcast
• And a lil' shout out to Tom McDowall and his podcast, Instructional Design Tips

What if we told you that we have one, really easy trick to make your learning land better with your audience? Well you're in luck. Because that's exactly what Han's bringing to the podcast today. And it's all about terminology. If you want to get them to walk the walk, you've gotta talk their talk. 

LINKS:

Han's LinkedIn

4 P's Podcast 

Han and Ash keep telling you to 'take your learning hat off'... but what on earth does that mean?! In this pod, Han dives right into what it means and how you can up the empathy with your target audience. 

Short and sweet. Just like the pod host. Although that would more likely be short and sassy... whatevs. 

LINKS:

• Han's LinkedIn 
• Learner Persona Ebook

Brand hierarchies (aka, brand architecture) are an essential element of marketing for learning®, and also grossly overlooked by you L&D folk. In this short episode Ash discusses what brand hierarchies are, why they're important and why it's absolutely critical to establish how all your corporate brands interplay with each other BEFORE you start big pieces of marketing work. 

Save yourself a headache, start up those brand hierarchy discussions early and really understand what you can actually do from a branding perspective from the outset, instead of trying to figure it amidst a project! 

James Blunt is a musician who knows how to get attention. In this episode Ash examines why his latest PR stunt is a masterclass in marketing and virality. 

SHOW NOTES

• James' video on X 
• Marketing Masterclass info

Think storytelling is just for kids? Think again! Stories make up a huge part of our everyday lives – and they should make up a huge part of your marketing for learning initiatives too! In this podcast Han covers all things storytelling. Including: 

• The 5 elements of all great stories
• The Heider Simmel experiment 
• Sharing some inspo from 2 incredible companies! 

Happy listening! 

We talk to a lot of learners. Like, a lot. Undertaking loads of discovery sessions with our global customers have allowed Ash and Han to have a really unique perspective on learner sentiment. They've also learned how to undertake valuable qualitative data research - and are sharing it all with you. Happy learnings #yourewelcome 

• Our website
• Ash's LinkedIn
• Han's LinkedIn

Are marketing campaigns the real secret to learning success? We think so. In this special podcast episode, Han tells you why.

This podcast was recorded live at Think Learning's client event on the 2nd November 2022. Relevant links to the freebies:

• Marketing Campaign Planner
• Learner Persona eBook
• Applying marketing in L&D blog

What does it really take to establish a proactive learning culture? Ashley was lucky enough to sit and chat with Caroline Fitzpatrick who is the Senior People Development and Learning Manager at L'Oréal UK & I. Part of a highly productive, proactive team of six, Caroline shares how the L&D function at L'Oréal have adopted a marketing mindset with their communication efforts and are utilising over eighteen marketing channels. Eighteen! She provides loads of tips, hacks and tactics which you could easily adopt in your own function today!

L'Oréal is doing marketing for learning and getting amazing results too. This success has been so great that the L'Oréal team have been shortlisted in the upcoming LPI Learning Awards in the 'Learning Culture' category. Fingers crossed you guys get gold Caroline and thanks again for the convo! If you want to find out more, feel free to connect with Caroline on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/learningcaroline/ 

The word learner is quite problematic isn't it? It implies that our employees are already actively learning, which isn't always the case. This word is building a very fixed mindset in L&D which makes us believe that our people want to learn. But that isn't always the case, and these attitudes may well be holding us back.

People Experience roles are on the rise and L&D is in a constant state of shift. In this unique conversation Ash chats to Josh Novelle, VP of People Experience and Insight at HSBC to discuss the role of L&D in modern enterprises, and what we need to do to remain relevant and valuable to the businesses we service. What a crackin' conversation!

• Josh's LinkedIn
• Ashley's LinkedIn 

Learning isn’t broken because people are lazy. It’s broken because the experience is.

In this episode, we’re joined by Tom McDowall to talk about why most learning still feels like a chore, and how to change it. 

We get into:

• Why more content ≠ more impact
• How to design frictionless, user-led learning journeys
• And what L&D can learn from UX, product, and service design

This one’s for anyone sick of seeing learning dumped on a platform and called a solution. Because if the experience sucks, the outcomes will too.

LINKS: 

• Tom McDowall on LinkedIn 
• IDT YouTube Channel

Too many L&D teams are building content for “learners” — not people.

In this episode, Ash and Han dive into the one thing that makes or breaks every learning initiative: knowing your audience. Not their job title. Not their LMS login history. But what actually drives them.

They unpack:

• Why “employees” and “learners” aren’t real personas
• How to ask the right people the right questions (and avoid confirmation bias)
• What to do with audience research once you’ve got it — and how to avoid building blind

So, if you’re still building learning based on job titles, gut feel, or “what we’ve always done” — this one’s for you. Because relevance starts with understanding. And understanding starts here.

LINKS:

• Free guide to building learner personas
• Learner persona template
• Follow MAAS Marketing on LinkedIn

Want to create learner personas that actually work. Well Han has a treat, just for you! This live podcast recording brings you everything you need to know to create personas that pack and punch and make your marketing 929,339* times better. 

Enjoy! 

*That is a very accurate number. 

Useful links:

• FREE Learner Personas Guide
• Follow Han on LinkedIn

Grab your tissues... because this is the final time you'll hear from Ash & Han in 2024! 😢 But indulge us in an episode of reflections on the crazy year that was 2024. From their personal highlights (did they mention 2 weddings & a baby?!), they also share their highlights from L&D in 2024, and look ahead to a very exciting 2025. 

See you on the other side, our dear Marketing For Learning friends 🍍

WOWZERS. Episode ONE HUNDRED. We can't quite believe we've hit this milestone. So to mark the occasion, Han has handpicked the best bits from all 100 episodes, to share with you today. From campaigns to mindset - this episode covers it all. So grab a glass of fizz! - or a brew if you'd prefer - and share the next 30ish minutes with us as we toast 100 episodes of the Marketing for Learning® podcast.

LINKS: 

• Han's LinkedIn
• Ash's LinkedIn 

Full episodes:

• Beyond Bums On Seats: Solving The Engagement Challenge
• How Would A Marketer Do L&D?
• Storytelling With Nick Shackleton-Jones
• L&D's Awareness Problem
• Creating Demand For Learning
• UX Design In Learning & Development
• Why Think Like A Marketer
• How To Create A Learning Campaign
• Data In L&D: An Interview With NilesNolen

Welcome back to our podcast mini series: The Mini MAASterclass. Most of you will know that we run a 6-week training Marketing MAASterclass programme at MAAS, and this podcast series is designed to give you a flavour of each session to help you become a marketing for learning pro! In this episode, Han will be discussing learner personas and gives you top tips on creating your own.

FREEBIE! Download our Learner Persona eBook here. 

New Series! From Training To Transformation: Redefining L&D’s Role.  We're so excited to announce our new multi-episode podcast series on L&D transformation. Our first episode kicks off with Derek Mitchell, Analytics Partner at Novo Nordisk. 

In this episode Derek discusses the critical role of data in L&D. He emphasises using data to proactively identify training needs, personalise communications, and measure the impact of learning initiatives. He also highlights the importance of moving beyond traditional metrics like course completions to focus on performance, skills growth, and behaviour change.  It's a fantastic episode, and definitely sets the scene for this crucial series! 

Links: 

• Derek's LinkedIn
• Ashley's LinkedIn 
• Strategic Marketing for L&D Course 

David James. Ashley Sinclair. One lovely, live podcast recording. What a special episode for our 50th episode!!! 

Recently Ash and David got together to chat about all things marketing for learning®, and it's our pleasure to share the entire live session with you here! Happy listening! 

• Ash's LinkedIn 
• David's LinkedIn 

In this fantastic ep, Ash and Georgie Cooke dive into the crucial link between employee experience and L&D, covering everything from culture and management to learning opportunities. They explore why audience insights matter, how to personalise learning, and the necessity of aligning L&D with business goals. The conversation also tackles blended learning, accessibility, and the challenges of measuring impact, urging L&D to rethink success beyond just engagement metrics.

Links: 

• Georgie Cooke's LinkedIn
• Lima Delta's website 
• Ash's LinkedIn
• Our Strategic Marketing Course 

Why do things go viral? How come humans seem to want to do something just because everyone else is? It's because of the psychological phenomenon called 'the bandwagon effect'. Ash explores with you what the bandwagon effect is, and how we can start to use this cognitive, unconscious bias to our advantage in marketing for learning®. 

NOTES & LINKS: 

• What is the bandwagon effect?
• Ep 13 - L'Oreal's learning culture with Caroline Fitzpatrick
• Ep 56 - Leveraging FOMO for impact
• Ashley's LinkedIn 

It's story time with Han this week, as she lets us in on a client conversation that really got her cogs turning. In this bite sized ep, Han delves into demand generation, and how it might help all L&Ders (and stakeholders!) think differently about marketing for learning®. 

What must a marketer always remember? Ash considers this topic and explores why we need a long-term view when executing marketing strategies in our L&D departments. Magic doesn't happen overnight 🤓

• Ash's LinkedIn
• MAAS' website

You've probably heard us chat about the value prop of your learning many, many times on this podcast. This episode is a practical walk-through to help you determine your value prop AND understand how best to communicate it to your learners using something called a value proposition canvas. 

What are the features, benefits and experiences of your learning? What do you learners want, need and fear? Combine the two and the marketing magic really happens! We've even created a template that you can use if you wanted to get started on your own value prop (which we really recommend you do)!

• Here's your free value proposition canvas template
• Here's a short video that'll show you how to complete it(please note we've changed some of the labels in our template to make it more appropriate for a learning context)

Ahhh what a nice, practical episode to get us back into the game 🔥

What is marketing for learning and what can you expect from this podcast? Our main host, Ashley Sinclair, talks you through some of the plans for the episodes to come and what we hope you'll gain from this podcast!

Welcome to the first edition of our Sunday Surgery - our brand new feature on the Marketing for Learning pod. These episodes are designed to help real L&Ders tackle their real challenges in a free consultancy session with Ash and Han. 

In this first session Louise Donnelly, Senior Learning Manager and Stephen Clark, Learning Technologies Manager bring a challenge our gals have seen time and time again: "We're building a thing, what do we call it?" 

So, what's in a name? Let's explore, shall we... 

Oh also, if you want to come on the Surgery and get a free consultancy session with Han and Ash, just email us at hello@maas-marketing.co.uk. It's completely free, it'll just cost you a recording so others can benefit from our conversation! 

NOTES: 

• Louise's LinkedIn 
• Stephen's LinkedIn 
• Come on our surgery: hello@maas-marketing.co.uk 

No, Han hasn't had a complete leave of her senses while Ash is away. But she really does think there are some instances where marketing won't help L&D... particularly if:

• Your learning experience is pants
• You haven't changed your thinking
• You aren't thinking long-term!

So if you want to know the pitfalls to avoid, this ep is for you. Happy listening! 🍍

We absolutely love talking to L&Ders who are getting Marketing for Learning right - and Peter Manniche Riber, Head of Digital Learning & Analytics at Novo Nordisk is no exception. Ash had the opportunity to chat with Peter about the data-led work his L&D team are undertaking and provides clear insights into how his team are using data to create personalised learning and marketing experiences.

It's a super interesting chat, jam-packed full of a brain that just approaches L&D differently. Happy listening!

Useful links: 

• Peter's LinkedIn profile
• Ashley's LinkedIn profile 

🤓 Liked this? Join our live podcast recording with Ed Monk and Serena Gonsalves-Fersch, Feb 21st, 3pm GMT. 

The question of the day: Why is engagement still L&D's biggest challenge? Well it's no surprise that Han's got an opinion on this topic and she's here to give her two cents (including the fact she doesn't think marketing for learning® is the sole solution to the engagement challenge). 

Every time Pinocchio lied, his nose got longer. The outputs and impact of his lie was immediate. And although that stopped Pinocchio lying, might bringing the outputs and impact of learning into the immediate term make people learn MORE? Han thinks so, and in this episode, she explains why.

LINKS:

Han’s LinkedIn

Seth Godin’s newsletter about the Pinocchio protocol.

Choice Hacking

Do marketing campaigns work for L&D? Well yeah, of course they do! But not everyone's convinced... In this podcast episode, Han sets the record straight on why campaigns are a great decision for all L&D teams.

"Can you just...?" is a phrase that sends shudders down any marketers spine. No, marketing is not "just" sending an email, making a poster or zhuzhing something up. It's a strategic process that gets butts a'movin! And that's what we want in L&D, right?

So, in this corker of an episode, Han is joined by Emma Hunter, Head of Creative Centre of Competence at Capgemini (phew, say that 10 times fast!) to discuss why proactive marketing is so, so important in marketing for learning. 

Links:

Han's LinkedIn

Emma's LinkedIn 

Two years. TWO YEARS! Two whole years of the marketing for learning® podcast. So this week Ash & Han team up for a joint episode to discuss anything and everything L&D, from AI, recruitment and embracing marketing for learning (shock!) 

So strap in for a great catch up with this pineapple-loving duo, and we apologise in advance for all the cackling... they just had too much fun 🥳

LINKS:

• Ash's LinkedIn
• Han's LinkedIn
• Our Website 

Did you miss out on our live podcast recording a few weeks ago? Well have no fear, you can catch up now! In this podcast, Han & Ash answer your questions about marketing for learning®, from "How do I persuade my stakeholders to let me market my learning?" all the way through to "How do I reach the rule of 7?" Happy listening! 

Key links: 

• MAAS Marketing blog
• Learner Personas guide
• Ash's LinkedIn
• Han's Linkedin

What's in it for me? When it comes to your learners, this is the most crucial question you should be answering. Ashley talks to you about what it really means to meet the needs of your learners and target their emotional drivers for maximum effectiveness.

Love our podcast - then vote for us here: https://www.britishpodcastawards.com/voting 

We appreciate you ❤️

Is marketing a human skill? It’s a question that Han was inspired to answer after The LPI’s latest Learning Live Networks event. And so she’s done just that, by having a one-woman debate live on the podcast. (We know… arguing with herself on a podcast… we always knew she was weird 🙃) But weirdness aside, Han takes a deep dive into the skills L&D needs to develop to accelerate their marketing efforts, so this is one not to be missed.  Happy listening! 

Missed it live? Here's your chance to listen to Ash & Han talk to none other than Ed Monk (CEO, The LPI) and Serena Gonsalves-Fersch (Global Head of Talent & Academy, SoftwareONE). 

In this session, these two industry heavy-weights discuss the value L&D offers to organisations, and L&D's role in employee attraction and retention. So grab a drink, sit back and settle in for 56 minutes of amazing discussion, laughs and light bulb moments.

Stay up to date, and be the first to know about upcoming live recordings, follow us on LinkedIn:

• MAAS Marketing
• Ashley Sinclair
• Hannah Waddams

New to marketing for learning? Haven't got the time to listen back to all the old podcast episodes? Well you're in luck. In this podcast Han rounds up the top 5 takeaways from our top 5 most listened to podcasts... ain't she nice?! Enjoy! 

Your favourite duo is back together to speak about their favourite marketing campaigns, and what you – as an L&D professional – can learn from them. Ash brings along a typo and a blast from the past, while Han gushes over music and branding. It's a juicy one, so strap yourself in for all the marketing for learning goodness! 

Learner personas are something we talk about a lot on this podcast, so we thought it was about time we got an L&Ders point of view. Listen to the chat Han had with Elvira, Senior Community Manager - Manager Development, at Expedia Group. This pod is full of absolute gems from Elvira, that you can apply to your marketing for learning initiatives straight away #yourewelcome!