The podcast for project managers by project managers. Is Scope Creep derailing your project? A lack of control can lead to projects spiraling out of scope. Join us as Shannon Keenan shares strategies to keep your team focused, avoid delays, and deliver successful outcomes. Learn how to manage scope effectively and prevent projects from spiraling out of control.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. How do successful project managers turn tough project negotiations into win-win outcomes? Discover a practical seven-step approach to managing claims, negotiating with customers, and closing negotiations effectively, offering a competitive edge for project managers handling complex projects.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Following the 2020 devastating explosion in Beirut, project manager Kevin Gemayel's journey is nothing short of inspiring as he tackled challenges head-on. Hear firsthand accounts of his experiences during the blast, his strategies for managing tasks, stakeholders, budgets, and time, and the invaluable lessons learned. We discover Kevin's extraordinary project and the power of resilience in the face of adversity. Table of Contents 04:27 … Meet Kevin05:30 … Kevin’s Story of the Tragedy07:25 … Gathering a Team08:18 … The Family Façade Business09:44 … Deciding How to Prioritize13:34 … An Emergency Response15:33 … Resources and Supplies16:47 … An Economic Crisis20:08 … Personal Impact21:36 … Keeping a Team Motivated22:38 … Ren Love’s Projects from the Past25:00 … Planning Time Management and Strategy28:21 … Creative Problem-Solving29:31 … Kevin’s Lessons Learned31:08 … Personal Growth Through Tragedy34:57 … Looking Back36:37 … Advice to Younger PMs38:46 … Contact Kevin39:59 … Closing KEVIN GEMAYEL: … in leadership, they say you should become a leader and personally lead yourself before leading anyone else.  And I would advise every project manager to learn and to focus on how they should lead themselves before going out there and leading projects and people and teams because, when they do things right themselves, … they will be able to influence the people they are working with.  …  So don’t just focus on books and numbers and theoretical things.  Focus on yourself, as well. WENDY GROUNDS:  You’re listening to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  My name is Wendy Grounds, and with me in the studio is Bill Yates.  We want to feature some younger talent in the project management community.  We’re calling it our Rising Talent series.  So for the next two episodes we’re going to be sharing the stories of two young project managers who are not only inspirational, but they’re also making waves with their incredible contributions to the field.  Now, we have spoken to some young project managers in the past. BILL YATES:  Yeah, Episode 165 we had a great conversation with Kat Shane.  You may recall she had a startup company that she began at the University of Georgia, and it was working on a solution to help people, governments, and businesses figure out what products or packaging are locally recyclable.  So, can I recycle this?  And how to get them where they needed to go. WENDY GROUNDS:  We also spoke to Christelle Kwizera.  That was Episode 146.  At the age of 20, Christelle founded Water Access Rwanda, which was in response to the dangerous conditions Rwandans would face when collecting water from rivers and dams.  She was quite an incredible young lady. BILL YATES:  What a story.  So inspirational and so young. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes, yes.  She was also a PMI Future 50 2021 honoree.  And the folk that we’re talking to in these two episodes are also Future 50 2023 honorees from PMI.  We are really enjoying featuring younger talent in the project management community.  The first one is our guest, Kevin. BILL YATES:  Yeah, this is a heavy story, this conversation we’ll have with Kevin.  It’s heavy.  It’s about the blast in Beirut.  And many people lost their lives, and many people who survived it will be dealing with it for a lifetime.  So, we wanted to recognize that.  But there are so many powerful lessons for us to learn from that, and to hear from Kevin. And we’ve tackled these kinds of topics before.  We spoke with Matthew Harper about the attack on the USS Cole and the lessons learned from that.  Peter Baines joined us from Australia.  He led international identification teams after tsunamis or terrorist attacks.  So, he’s talked with us about that.  And of course, Chuck Casto, that story was so engaging, looking at the Fukushima disaster and the 11 months that he spent onsite after the accident, and all the lessons learned he had from that after that earthquake and tsunami.  So, this is a topic we’ve been down before in terms of, okay, how do you lead through a tragedy?  And Kevin’s perspective is going to really be insightful. WENDY GROUNDS:  Right.  Today we embark on a story of resilience, determination, and the unwavering spirit to rebuild.  Just to give you a little more background, in 2020, Beirut’s port was engulfed in a catastrophic explosion, leaving behind a wake of devastation.  There were over 200 lives lost, 6,000 injured, and 300,000 people were homeless, with countless structures in ruins.  The aftermath of this tragedy was what set the stage for this immense rebuilding process. This was what Kevin Gemayel got involved with.  Kevin is a second-generation leader at a prominent building façade firm, and he found himself at the forefront of restoring Beirut’s shattered historical and cultural landmarks following the blast.  His tenure in the family business, marked by innovative project management and quality control methods since 2014, laid the groundwork for impactful change.  Today Kevin and his dedicated team navigate the profound personal and professional challenges posed by this tragedy, and he’s driven by a deep commitment to revitalize the city’s cherished landmarks.  So, join us today as we delve into Kevin’s journey and hear about his incredible project. Meet Kevin Hi, Kevin.  Welcome to Manage This.  Thank you so much for joining us today. KEVIN GEMAYEL:  Thank you.  Thank you. WENDY GROUNDS:  I must congratulate you on being a PMI Future 50 honoree.  That is really quite an accomplishment. BILL YATES:  That’s phenomenal. WENDY GROUNDS:  And we have been so excited to find your story and to learn more about you.  So, we’re looking forward to talking about your projects today.  The first thing is I just want to know what motivated your career in project management.  How did all of this get started for you? KEVIN GEMAYEL:  During my university years, we got some courses on project managers, as all engineers do.  And I found out that it’s quite an interesting subject.  I actually chose mechanical engineering to keep my options open.  And when I found out what’s the scope of work of project manager usually, it was very interesting for me because I didn’t really like to go into technical details.  I preferred understanding them, but not working on them on a daily basis.  So managing them was the best combination for me. Kevin’s Story of the Tragedy WENDY GROUNDS:  Today we’re talking about a pivotal project that has shaped your career that was really a big impact in 2020.  What was your experience, your personal experience of that time when the tragic blast happened in Beirut?  Were you living there at the time? KEVIN GEMAYEL:  I was in a city a bit far from Beirut.  But because of the scale of the explosion, we could hear the sound of it, and the house was shaken even at a very distant location.  We knew that something wrong happened, but we didn’t know the size of the damage.  Everyone in Beirut thought that the explosion happened right next to them because the sound was so loud.  It was around 6:00 p.m., and there was no more light here at 6:00 p.m.  It’s already nighttime.  So, we started making our phone calls, and we knew what happened.  We understood the size of the damage. So, I decided to go down to Beirut to witness it in my own eyes.  And that was honestly a disaster.  It’s like in the movies when a meteorite strikes, and all the roads are blocked.  It was exactly the same thing here.  And we found a way of walking there into the city.  Everyone was going there to see and to help because it was an unprecedented situation, honestly.  So when we got there this night, I had a house right next to the port.  First, I went to my house to see what happened to it.  It was a disaster.  And then the second day, in the morning, we also went down to help other people on the streets with our own hands.  That was the work of all the Lebanese, not just me.  Like I was on the ground with millions of people who were there pro bono, if you want, just to help because they didn’t care about work anymore, about anything.  For them, their city was struck.  And this day I realized that it was useless for me to stay on the grounds personally because I could have done so much more impact. Gathering a Team And that’s how I decided to gather a small team and to manage them in a way to start working on the imminent threat because we work in glass.  That’s our main specialty.  And there was so much glass that was going to fall on people, on people walking around the streets.  So that was the first threat after the explosion, other than the people who needed the first aid. So, I gathered a team because no one dared to carry glass with their hands.  It’s very dangerous.  We gathered a specialized team to do that.  And we started getting phone calls and categorizing the most important and the most critical places.  And that’s how the work started.  At the day of the explosion, we were a team of around 90 people, and this number kept on growing.  I don’t like to give precise numbers, but we were in the hundreds a few days later working together for us to rebuild our city. The Family Façade Business BILL YATES:  That’s amazing.  So help me understand, Kevin, was your background as a mechanical engineer, your background happened to be you knew a lot about glass and glass construction.  So when the explosion occurred, glass was blown out for miles, and it was glass all over the street.  And then, as you said, there’s glass just hanging, too; right?  It’s perilous for the efforts to recover people and start the cleanup.  So that happened to be some of the engineering knowledge that you had going into this? KEVIN GEMAYEL:  Not just that.  Actually, we have a family business, which is façade contracting.  Our daily work was windows and glass....

What is the project manager’s role in talent development? Instead of focusing on the negatives, shouldn’t we focus on what people do best? After all, projects are more successful when we play to the strengths of the team. Our guest, Connie Plowman, co-authored a book Developing Strengths-Based Project Teams with Martha Buelt. Connie defines the difference between a talent and a strength as she introduces the concept of a strengths-based project team.

VELOCITEACH – Manage This – Episode 107 As businesses and project managers start to strategize about the post-crisis world, Mike Goss explains what makes business recovery a project. How can we respond to this crisis from a business standpoint, and how that can be a project? Table of Contents 01:58 … Meet Mike 03:08 … Everything in Life is a Project 03:49 … Responding to Crisis as a Project 05:00 … Redefine your Business: The Why and the Who 09:24 … Business Recovery as a Project 11:26 … Personal Experience with Business Recovery 13:33 … What Parts of a Business will Benefit? 16:05 … Building a WBS 18:45 … Facing Risks in Business Recovery 20:50 … Staying on Course 22:15 … A Project Plan for all Scenarios 23:49 … Overcoming Communication Challenges in Business Recovery 25:37 … A Plan for Businesses of all Sizes 26:06 … Strategizing in a Post Crisis World 27:23 … Advice for Resilience during Business Recovery 32:37 … Mike’s Course on Business Recovery 34:12 … Closing MIKE GOSS: If we had a scale of one to 10, yesterday you were at an eight.  Then COVID-19 show up.  Now you’re at a one.  Your objective is not to get back to eight.  Your object is to get back to 10, where you’ve never been before.  On your way, you’re going to build in the tools and the processes that make sure you never hit one again, no matter what happens.  That’s a project. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  This is our opportunity to meet with you and talk about issues that project managers are facing today.  I am Wendy Grounds, and with me in the studio is Bill Yates. So today we’re talking in the midst of the COVID-19 crisis, businesses are starting to think about the post-crisis situation.  For some organizations it’s really been near-term survival is what’s on the agenda. BILL YATES:  Right.  I agree, Wendy.  There are so many companies that are just fighting to stay in business right now.  I’m a part of a CEO roundtable, and just seeing the impact that this is having on people locally and globally is huge, I think.  I just saw some statistics today.  Now, just to let listeners know, this is May the 4th.  And so far 30 million people in the United States have filed for unemployment, just since the COVID-19 got really serious in March, up until today.  We’re here in the Atlanta, Georgia area.  So just for our state of Georgia, one in four workers have filed for unemployment. WENDY GROUNDS:  Unbelievable. BILL YATES:  So it’s huge.  And obviously our federal government is taking great steps to help fight through the economic impact of this as we all figure out what does the new normal look like.    So just thinking about what is business going to look like when we can get going again.  So I think it’s helpful for us to have this conversation, and we’re fortunate to have Mike Goss here to talk through some of this with us. Meet Mike WENDY GROUNDS:  He was telling us that his career has taken more twists and turns than most.  BILL YATES:  Yeah.  So he started out as a stereo equipment salesman. WENDY GROUNDS:  And a computer store owner. BILL YATES:  An elevator salesman. WENDY GROUNDS:  And then he became a software developer. BILL YATES:  Senior VP at a bank. WENDY GROUNDS:  And the author of “Breaking Through Walls,” a business novel about overcoming life’s obstacles. BILL YATES:  And then a college instructor. WENDY GROUNDS:  And then a radio personality. BILL YATES:  And of course he fit a military career in there, as well.  He’s a veteran in the U.S. Air Force, serving in Thailand during the Vietnam War. WENDY GROUNDS:  He has been on a podcast before with us, and he tells us more about that in his previous episode.  Since 2014, Mike has also taught PMP exam prep boot camps in Oregon, Washington, and South Carolina. BILL YATES:  Quite a diverse, I’d say, yeah, he is definitely shaking the tree.  He’s done quite a diverse... WENDY GROUNDS:  He’s been a very busy man. BILL YATES:  Yup.  I look forward to talking with Mike about the situation that we’re in now, and what we can take from project management and apply to this crisis. WENDY GROUNDS:  Mike, welcome to Manage This.  Thank you for being our guest today. MIKE GOSS:  It’s my pleasure.  I’ve been looking forward to this. Everything in Life is a Project WENDY GROUNDS:  We want to start by just kind of setting the stage for what you’ve been talking about.  So why do you say everything in life is a project? MIKE GOSS:  Wendy, everything in life that’s worth doing has an objective.  Too many times we don’t get around to stating that objective, but in fact, everything we do that’s worthwhile is a project.  We can choose to apply project management principles, or we can choose to wing it.  And so it occurred to me that it makes more sense and saves a lot of time if we make some kind of a plan.  It doesn’t have to be complex, but it has to exist. Responding to Crisis as a Project BILL YATES:  Mike, when you look at that approach, and you think about where we are today with the COVID-19 crisis, how do you put those two together?  Because COVID-19 and this crisis that we’re in can be overwhelming.  So everything in life is a project.  Now you’re looking at it and saying, okay, but how we respond to this crisis from a business standpoint, that can be a project, as well.  What kind of led you to that decision? MIKE GOSS:  Bill, it occurs to me that, if you are trying to dig your business out, and your business is probably closed because of COVID-19, how are you going to dig yourself out?  I see a great opportunity to take where we used to be, make it better, so that where we’re going is better than what used to be. And so if we’re careful as we put it together, the next time a surprise like COVID-19 shows up, and it will someday, we’ll be better prepared for that.  When we apply the principles of project management, we can make that happen.  If we wing it, then it will suffer the same way or worse, just like we are now. Redefine your Business: The Why and the Who BILL YATES:  So one of your statements was this is a time to redefine your business, maybe take a fresh look at it.  What’s your advice on reevaluating business?  How far do we go with this? MIKE GOSS:  There’s two places that we start, and you can dig as deep as you want in both of the places.  The first one is to think back why did I get into this business in the first place?  Something drew me to it, I had a software business, I once had a computer store.  Why did I get into those?  And if I can answer that, then I start seeing visions of what could be because I was pumped when I created the business in the first place. Now my business took a nosedive, I’ll say it wasn’t my fault, but I also have to say maybe I wasn’t as prepared as I could have been.  So it’s now the time to make a new vision for my business to make it something even better than it was before, and that’s where I’ll start, that’s the first part. But the second part has to do with my customers, every person who breathes is not my customer.  I’m going to have to figure out better than I ever have before who is my target customer, and what do they care about?  And once I know that, my objective is I want them to buy stuff from me.  That’s my revenue.  I’ll generate  profits from those sales.  But if I don’t know what my customers are looking for, and I open the door and do exactly what I did before, I’ve already set myself up for big trouble. BILL YATES:  So Mike, a lot of this reminds me of thinking to projects, thinking about a project charter. And I think you can  make the equivalent statement of like a company charter, a mission statement, so with that charter we should be explaining the why.  Why are we doing this project?  What difference is it going to make?  Is it a particular product?  Is it a service? Or is it a result?  Why?  And then who’s going to benefit from it?  Who’s going to pay for it?  Certainly the sponsor.  But then who’s the end customer?  The why and the who are so closely connected, it’s as if you’re describing a project charter, perhaps at a business level. So maybe we need to be taking a fresh look at our business and answering that question of why and the who. MIKE GOSS:  We do, Bill, because, if we don’t, when something else happens, we’re not going to be prepared. We’re going to say, oh, I’m so shocked that that happened, yet we had the chance to prepare for it, and we chose not to take it.  So what you were saying is the why and the what.  Why does this business exist?  What is it going to build in products or services?  And who is it going to sell those services to?  And how well does it meet the needs of those people who are going to come back to our business?  If we haven’t looked at them recently, it’s time, and so this is such a huge opportunity to do that. BILL YATES:  So how do you step back and take that fresh look?  So I think for some who are listening, they’re thinking, man, I’m working more hours than I’ve ever worked.  This is like when I first launched my business, or launched a project.  I’m working more hours than I thought I could possibly work, trying to keep things afloat, and now Mike’s challenging me to be very strategic, to look at the why, look at what it is we’re producing, and who we’re producing it for. So what’s your word of inspiration to those folks? MIKE GOSS:  Start out with your glass being half full and rising, Bill.  Start there. BILL YATES:  Okay. MIKE GOSS:  So right now it’s too easy to say, oh, poor me, doom and gloom, the world is conspiring against me.  There’s no time for that.  It’s now time to do the same thing you did when you first started your business:  create a grand vision of what could be.  Then invite all the kids on your team to go along on a quest to achieve that grand vision,...

Manage This by Velociteach The podcast by project managers for project managers. The Ocean Cleanup organization is tackling the largest clean-up project in history. Henk van Dalen shares his passion for the project as he describes the origin of The Ocean Cleanup organization and outlines this bold project to clean the vast amounts of waste from our oceans. Table of Contents 01:55 … Understanding the Problem 03:19 … How The Ocean Cleanup Began 05:31 … Henk’s Involvement in the Project 06:48 … Ocean Garbage Patches 08:26 … Facing Setbacks 11:21 … The Highs and Lows of Lessons Learned 14:48 … Lessons from Wilson 16:39 … Not Taking it Personally 20:57 … Plastic Size and Barrier Specifics 25:44 … Quantity of Systems Needed 28:00 … Safety for Other Vessels 30:49 … What Happens to the Collected Plastic? 32:07 … Tackling the Problem at the Source 33:50 … Cleaning up the Rivers 37:00 … Leadership Lessons 40:24 … Biggest Surprise on the Project 42:38 … Learn More about The Ocean Cleanup 44:28 … Closing HENK VAN DALEN:  ...the Garbage Patch out there is so big and persistent, that’s not going to away by itself.  It’s almost looking at your house, and you say, “I have a dirty house; but if I close the doors, then, you know, it’s going to be fine.”  You still need to clean it up, as well. So for us doing that part is essential, and we believe that the power and the impact that the Ocean Cleanup can make is really in technology.  Develop technology.  Be able to move quickly to address the problem that’s there already.  But also, you know, it’s us also getting the awareness out there that people start thinking by themselves what it is.  So if the Ocean Cleanup looked at, but what are we good at and where can we make an impact, it’s creating that awareness, backing it up by science and showing how big this problem is and cleaning up the mess that is already out there. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  We’re glad you’ve joined us for a conversation about what matters to you in the field of project management.  I’m Wendy Grounds, and here in the studio with me is Bill Yates. BILL YATES:  Wendy, we’ve got an interesting theme that you’ve hit on.  I love this.  We’ve talked about saving the rhinos.  We’ve talked about tracking orbital space debris.  We’ve looked at community gardens and food banks; sustainability.  And man, have we got a great conversation today. WENDY GROUNDS:  I am very excited about this one.  I have been following this project for a few years now and have been trying to find someone who will talk to us.  And we were very fortunate to find Henk van Dalen.  Henk is the Director Ocean Project of The Ocean Cleanup.  This is a project that is looking to clean up the ocean. BILL YATES:  That’s it, five trillion pieces of plastic that we want to remove from the ocean.  That’s a big project. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yeah, we’re very excited to hear Henk’s story. Understanding the Problem BILL YATES:  Henk, thank you so much for joining us today on Manage This, from your remote location. HENK VAN DALEN:  Thank you.  Thank you for having me, guys. BILL YATES:  One of the first things I want to do is just help our listeners understand the problem.  Can you define the problem for us? HENK VAN DALEN:  So within The Ocean Cleanup, we’re focusing to clean up the oceans, and that first of all means we need to close up the inflow of the oceans, taking the plastic out of the rivers, preventing it going in.  But there’s also the element of a lot of plastic being out there in the ocean itself, and that’s been accumulating there over decades.  And our focus primarily is now on the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. So that is the area of the ocean located between Hawaii and California, and there is a plastic soup, you could say, floating around which is twice the size of Texas. So that is an immense amount of plastic, and it’s not going away by itself, it’s persistent, it’s been there for years, and it will stay for decades longer if we don’t do anything about it.  And so we’re talking about, well, 1.8 trillion pieces of plastic, which in accumulated weight we believe is around 80,000 tons.  And of course, if no one cleans this up, this is going to be smashed into smaller pieces by the natural elements.  It will end up in our food chain.  It could end up on our plate.  And it really is just harming the whole environment together.  So within The Ocean Cleanup our mission is to get all that plastic out of the ocean. How The Ocean Cleanup Began WENDY GROUNDS:  Can you describe how The Ocean Cleanup began, how this project actually started? HENK VAN DALEN:  The Ocean Cleanup is – call it the child of our founder, Boyan Slat.  He was about 16 years old when he was diving in Greece, a great hobby of him.  And during that diving he saw more plastic than fish, and it really started to bother him, and he thought, you know, what can I do as an individual to address this?  So he did go to university, but quickly he thought, I want to give all my attention to address this problem, and I want to put full focus on that for my future. So he basically did that, and in 2012 he went online with a TEDx talk, the first one about promoting his feasibility study about how he could clean up the ocean.  And the idea was kind of born that plastic washes up on all these (un)inhabited islands, where no one is, but yet there’s plenty of garbage on the islands, and can we not build something that can act as a natural barrier, basically similar to an island, can capture that plastic.  So with that idea he went public, whether doing TEDx – he gained quite some attention from that.  Then in 2013 he received enough funding to start off the research and development, understand more about the problem, as well, but in parallel start thinking about the actual technology, how to address this. So, yeah, it’s now 2020, of course, so for a good seven years his team has grown, the whole project has grown by itself.  It started very much at really researching a problem, like what type of plastic is out there, how does it get there, how does it behave, how big is it, and all this research we’ve done, we’ve also publicized via our website.  But with the gaining the understanding of the problem, we could then start working on the technology to address that.  And that’s what we’ve been doing, call it more or less for the last four to five years, really, you know, doing a lot of R&D, a lot of testing.  And then for making sure that we come up with a solution to do this.  Because in the end Boyan said for himself by 2040 he wants to get all of this plastic out of the ocean.  So that’s our mission. Henk’s Involvement in the Project BILL YATES:  That’s a phenomenal goal.  That’s such a huge task.  Henk, how did you get involved in this?  How did you come to join the project? HENK VAN DALEN:  Well, myself, I have a background in meteorology and oceanography, which is great, but it mainly learned for me where to surf good waves because I’m a very fond wave surfer.  So I actually traveled the world quite a bit, doing that surfing, and I remember, I don’t know where it was, I think it was in Costa Rica, I read a slogan somewhere that it said “Don’t destroy what you came to enjoy.”  And so I've always been kind of living that motto, you know.  Of course, being a surfer, dealing with the natural elements, you have a lot of respect for Mother Earth.  But also you notice how other people do not necessarily have that. So I came back, I did start working in a marine construction environment, mainly focusing on building offshore windmill parks.  But I always thought I wanted to do more directly for the ocean.  And it was then that the Ocean Cleanup, which I was following for a while, actually professionalized quite a bit.  And they were then looking for a project manager.  So that was the unique opportunity for me to combine my passion, being surfing and then caring about the ocean, with the skill set I built up during those years in the industry, and therefore make a difference for the better, for the future. Ocean Garbage Patches BILL YATES:  That’s phenomenal, so  I didn’t realize there was that connection as a surfer and having that passion, it’s wonderful the way that worked out.  Henk, can you explain further, there’s a big nasty name for the first garbage patch that you guys are going after. Explain how many there are in the ocean, how many big accumulations of plastic there are, and then why did you guys pick the one that’s between Hawaii and California? HENK VAN DALEN:  So if you look at the world’s oceans, there’s basically five big gyres, and that’s where kind of ocean current circulates around, but you end up in a kind of calmer area in the center where a lot of debris then accumulates.  So those five gyres are basically in the North Pacific, and that one is the one we call the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.  There’s the South Pacific, the North Atlantic, the South Atlantic, and there’s the Indian Ocean.  So as I mentioned, the plastic accumulates there because after a while it kind of is released by the ocean currents, and then it starts to stack up over there. So of all these five gyres, we have investigated the most the North Pacific one because it is known that that one is the biggest, the most persistent, and therefore also the most worrying in that respect.  And also for, call it a young startup.  We’ve grown quite a bit, of course. We’re not necessarily a startup at the moment, but for us to really get a focus and tackle the problem hands-on we said for ourselves let’s grab the biggest one first, and that is the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. Let’s make sure we develop technology to address that, and that should be scalable that we could also deploy this on the other gyres in the world,...

VELOCITEACH Manage This The podcast by project managers for project managers. Dana Brownlee shares tools for managing up that challenging boss or stakeholder, while creating alignment and clear communication. Table of Contents 00:58 … Meet Dana 02:18 … The Inspiration for The Unwritten Rules of Managing Up 03:54 … Managing Up Research Study 07:02 … It Begins with Self Awareness 08:20 … A Definition of Managing Up 10:05 … Managing Up Mistakes 11:30 … Six Difficult Boss Personality Types 14:32 … A Closer Look at the Clueless Chameleon 19:03 … A Closer Look at the Meddlesome Micromanager 22:40 … A Closer Look at the Tornado 25:22 … The Compliment, Document, and Pivot 27:37 … More Taming of the Tornado 29:32 … Self-Analysis for the Project Manager 31:28 … Get in Touch with Dana 32:24 … Closing WENDY GROUNDS:  Hello, and welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m Wendy Grounds and with me in the studio is Bill Yates.  Bill, I have a question for you today.  How often have you experienced a difficult stakeholder or a difficult boss?  What’s your experience? BILL YATES:  Oh, man.  This is such a loaded question.  You’re going to get me in trouble.  Andy... WENDY GROUNDS:  Yeah, we don’t have to talk any current. BILL YATES:  Okay, good, yeah.  I was going to say, Andy Crowe’s not in the room right now, but he will definitely listen to this.  So, got an outstanding manager now.  But yeah, I mean, this is just a part of life; right?  We have managers who – sometimes our boss, our manager is super supportive and great.  Other times there are challenges, and so fortunately we have Dana to talk with us about some of those challenges. Meet Dana WENDY GROUNDS: So our guest today is Dana Brownlee, she is a PMP, and she founded Professionalism Matters, which is an Atlanta-based corporate training company.  Her business expertise has been featured in Forbes.com, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, to name a few.  And Dana likes to give project managers tools they can use.  Dana, welcome to Manage This. DANA BROWNLEE:  Thanks so much for having me. WENDY GROUNDS:  Dana, won’t you first tell us just a bit about yourself and how you entered the project management field? DANA BROWNLEE:  Certainly.  Well, I started my company back in 2003.  I’m dating myself a little bit, can’t believe it’s been that long.  But I started in project management I guess in the early ‘90s.  And in fact I remember it was so long ago, I remember applying for my PMP in handwritten paper. BILL YATES:  Oh, okay. WENDY GROUNDS:  Wow. DANA BROWNLEE:  Like printing it off and writing it out and actually mailing it in, putting a stamp in, so I’m officially old.  But I worked in corporate for a number of years, and then I started my own training company, and I went out, and I teach training classes and give speaking events.  But I do think that I’ve always been wired kind of as a project manager, I dot my I’s; I cross my T’s. In fact, my husband laughed.  He said, you know, “This is definitely for you.  You’ve got a knack for telling other people what to do.”  So some of it is kind of in my blood.  But I love it. The Inspiration for The Unwritten Rules of Managing Up WENDY GROUNDS:  Dana has written an excellent book that Bill and I have both enjoyed reading.  It’s called “The Unwritten Rules of Managing Up:  Project Management Techniques from the Trenches.”  And in this book we read about different types of bosses and techniques that you can implement when working with these different types of managers.  Dana, what inspired you to write the book? DANA BROWNLEE:  Actually, my audiences inspired me to write the book.  I never intended to speak on this topic, to write on this topic, but let me tell you what started happening.  I give talks, and I provide training on a wide range of topics.  So I might be out speaking about communication skills, about how to run more effective meetings, how to deal with a difficult person in the meeting. And what was happening was invariably, irrespective of the topic, when I would get to that Q&A section at the end, where I would open it up to the audience to ask questions, one of the first questions I would always get is, yeah, I love that tip, but what if the problem person is your boss?  Or what if it’s the executive that’s pushing back or causing you problems?  So I started seeing a lot of energy around this, a lot of interest and curiosity. So back in 2010 I wrote a whitepaper that I sent to PMI, the Project Management Institute, called “The Project Manager’s Guide to Dealing with a Difficult Sponsor.”  And then from there I just started developing more collateral and speaking more on the topic.  But really the genesis was the audiences, they really were struggling with this.  It was a hot topic, and so that’s how I got into this arena. Managing Up Research Study BILL YATES:  Could you tell us more about that research that that led to? DANA BROWNLEE:  Yes.  So I was giving a talk in Chicago, at a PMI event in Chicago, I think it was 2016.  And actually a publisher reached out to me, once they saw the speaker lineup, and they said, “Yeah, we’re kind of curious about this topic.  We want to come sit in on your talk.”  And it was standing room only, and I promise you, it wasn’t because of me, it was because of the topic, because people were really interested in that. And so from there they asked me to write a book.  They said, “Hey, we think there’s a book here.  We think there’s a lot of urgency around this topic, a lot of interest around this topic.” So they asked me to write the book, and of course I said yes, I was really interested in writing the book.  But I said, you know, I don’t want this book to just be informed by my personal experience.  I want to hear from other people, and so I said, “I’m going to send out a survey.”  Now, as soon as I said that I got nervous because I’m like, who’s going to respond to the survey?  I didn’t have – I’m not Beyoncé, I mean, I didn’t have like a bazillion followers, and of course everybody hates surveys, I hate surveys.  Nobody responds to surveys, but I could not believe it, I sent out this survey, and within about three weeks I had 1,173 responses, unique responses. BILL YATES:  Wow, that’s outstanding.  And you got really  good response, I mean, reading through the book, some of the quotes that you pulled out of those surveys are just hilarious, and they’re so brutally honest with you.  DANA BROWNLEE:  They make you laugh and cry at the same time. BILL YATES:  Yeah, yeah. DANA BROWNLEE:  I mean, some of them really almost brought me to tears.  Some of them were hilarious, with the little names they gave for their crazy bosses or crazy stakeholders.  So, yeah, it was great, I felt like it was kind of cathartic for a lot of people.  And so maybe that’s why they didn’t mind it quite as much.  But they got really granular, they told me their horror stories.  I remember one person told me she went out on disability, she was so stressed out in her situation, and she wasn’t unique, but I was really, really grateful to get great feedback. BILL YATES:  And then if you summarize – and I know you’ve got some great graphics that you share in your presentations and in the book.  Summarize some of those findings. DANA BROWNLEE:  When we use the term “boss,” we’re using that pretty liberally, we don’t necessarily mean it has to be the person you’re reporting to.  As project managers, a lot of our struggle is we have too many bosses. BILL YATES:  Right. DANA BROWNLEE:  That we’ve got all these stakeholders – maybe it’s a senior executive, maybe it’s a client, so maybe it’s even a difficult vendor that’s important – that you’re trying to maintain a strong relationship with.  But at any rate, going back to your question, one of the stats that I use sometimes at the beginning of my speaking events is I ask them this.  I say, okay.  I surveyed 1,172 respondents.  How many of those do you feel said they’ve never had a difficult boss experience?  And then I wait, and out of that number, almost 1,200, only two, only two people said that they have never had that experience.  So it’s common, you know, we need to not think of it as a negative thing, or feel embarrassed about it.  I promise you, if you live long enough, you will have a difficult boss experience.  It’s just part of working. It Begins with Self Awareness WENDY GROUNDS:  I was telling Bill yesterday that many years ago I worked in a hospital.  And we had a professor in charge of radiology where I worked who, when he had a bad day, he would wear something yellow.  And we knew when he was walking into the department, if he had a yellow tie or a yellow shirt, keep away from him.  It’s not going to be pretty. DANA BROWNLEE:  Well, that’s great self-awareness because awareness is the first step, so I actually like that. WENDY GROUNDS:  Absolutely.  But they don’t do that, bosses don’t go around with a color code and say, you know, I’m wearing turquoise today, so I’m in a good mood. DANA BROWNLEE:  Well, you know, we say that, and we’re laughing.  But actually in the book I have a little bit of a checklist because the beginning of turning it around is just identifying these characteristics within ourselves because I think we all have them in one way or another.  In fact, my husband was telling me, you know, “Yeah, you’re great, so you’re the perfect person because you’re the Micromanager and the Tornado, like all rolled up into one.”  But it’s not a negative thing, I think that we all have a little bit of some of these tendencies. And acknowledging that in yourself, being able to kind of pull yourself back and say, well, wait a minute, so maybe I am micromanaging a little bit. I need to pull back, so awareness really, really is the first step....

The podcast by project managers for project managers. The unpredictable nature of a crisis means that leaders have little time to prepare. Our guest Matt Harper, a retired 20 year Naval Officer, talks about crisis leadership lessons he learned onboard the USS Cole during a terrorist attack. Table of Contents 00:37 … Meet Matt 01:38 … Matt’s Role on the USS Cole 03:55 … Background to the USS Cole Deployment 06:32 … Geographical Location of Yemen 07:58 … October 12th, 2000 10:02 … Reacting in Times of Crisis 12:24 … Events Following the Attack 14:36 … Responding Well or Responding Poorly in a Crisis 16:34 … Management vs. Leadership 20:15 … Crisis Leadership Lesson One: Understand Yourself 21:05 … Crisis Leadership Lesson Two: Be Comfortable with Uncertainty 22:40 … Crisis Leadership Lesson Three: Collaborate 24:01 … Crisis Leadership Lesson Four: Be Ready to do Anything 26:35 … Crisis Leadership Lesson Five: Lessons Learned 27:35 … Keeping Motivated in a Crisis 29:42 … Get up on the Balcony, Take a Different Perspective 33:11 … Go Beyond Your Comfort Zone 34:41 … Resolving the Problem 37:20 … Get in Touch with Matt 38:52 … Closing MATT HARPER: ...this is the hallmark of the good leader, of the good project manager that says, got it, that’s the way it’s supposed to be done, but we’re in a crisis deadline or whatever the case may be.  And this is how we need to do it now. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I am Wendy Grounds, and with me is Bill Yates. BILL YATES:  Hi.  Hi, Wendy. WENDY GROUNDS:  Hi, Bill.    Today we’re talking about what will we do in a time of crisis.  We have Matt Harper with us.  He is on Skype from Denver, Colorado. Meet Matt BILL YATES:  Yeah, Matt has had a twenty year career with the US Navy and we’ll get more into that. Specifically though, he had a unique experience and I’m looking forward to discussing with him and sharing with our audience. WENDY GROUNDS:  Matt is going to tell us about his experience on the USS Cole after a terrorist attack in Aden, Yemen, which happened in October 2000. He was decorated for his leadership after this attack and he’s applied that to coaching lessons in crisis leadership, and so I think he’s got a lot of good stuff he’s going to bring to us today. BILL YATES:  Yeah, Matt, we so appreciate your time.  Welcome to Manage This. MATT HARPER:  Well, thanks.  Thanks for having me.  Looking forward to it. BILL YATES:  Any time we can bring somebody into a conversation that has the knowledge, the training, and the experience that you do, we know our project manager listeners are going to appreciate it and learn from it.  Wendy and I were talking, we feel like the best way to tackle this topic is just start from the beginning.  Give us a sense for what happened with the USS Cole and what your role was, or what part you played in that. Matt’s Role on the USS Cole MATT HARPER:  Sure.  Well, thanks, thanks again for having me.  I would like to kind of start out, having a 20-year military background, I’m sure a lot of the people listening to the podcast will have military backgrounds. BILL YATES:  Right. MATT HARPER:  But for most people who do not, I would like to say that anybody who spends time in the military, what we do on a daily basis is really project management. BILL YATES: That’s true. MATT HARPER:  It’s something that we I think don’t do a very good job, we people in the military or prior military personnel, we don’t do a very good job really making it clear that that’s really what we do, probably 90 percent of our day, is really different types of projects that all interrelate to each other.  They’re all underfunded; they’re all under-resourced. BILL YATES:  Yes. MATT HARPER:  And that’s what we do on a daily basis.  So about my experience, I originally grew up in San Francisco.  I always knew I kind of wanted to be in the Navy, so I went to ROTC up in New England at Boston University.  So I commissioned as an ensign in the U.S. Navy in 1996.  I commissioned as a ship guy, so it meant I spent most of my time on ships.  So again, kind of the military big organization that people may or may not be familiar about:  if you say you’re “in the Navy,” that’s kind of like saying you work at GE. BILL YATES:  Right. MATT HARPER:  You could be, you could be a line worker who’s doing the same job over and over again, or you could be the CEO, and so there’s a whole range in between.  So my time at the Navy I spent most of that time on ships.  And then when I wasn’t on a ship, I was at a staff or at a desk job in a cubicle kind of doing paperwork, for lack of a better word.  So I joined the Navy in 1996; and then in 2000 I was on my second ship, USS Cole.  So I was a young lieutenant at the time.  So a “young lieutenant” being I had about five years in the Navy in October of 2000. And so at the time I was the Assistant Operations Officer. As a young lieutenant I had a more senior lieutenant who was my immediate superior, and then it was the captain, and then the XO of the ship.  So I was kind of senior middle management, how’s that, for my time on that ship. Background to the USS Cole Deployment So we had been on deployment, so that meant we notionally had left Norfolk, Virginia for a six-month deployment.  So we left at the end of the summer of 2000.  We spent the first half of our deployment in the Mediterranean.  So back in 2000, after the civil war or the breakup of Yugoslavia, the U.S. military was helping NATO in resolving the separate conflicts in the former Yugoslavia.  At that time the semiautonomous independent country of Kosovo was having their conflict, and so NATO was providing a no-fly zone.  So just kind of background for what we were doing, what I was doing on the ship. BILL YATES:  Right. MATT HARPER:  And so the ship, the USS Cole, basically we were tracking every aircraft that flew over Kosovo and were enforcing a no-fly zone.  So as a young lieutenant I was sending out messages, and I was tracking all the airplanes that flew over Kosovo in the Mediterranean. And so we left there in October, and we did a high-speed – for us, which was 28 knots, which is about 35 miles per hour.  So for a ship that is fast.  We did a high-speed run to go from the Mediterranean to the Persian Gulf, to the Arabian Gulf.  And the reason I say we did a “high-speed run” is because the type of ship we were at had gas turbine engines, which is basically a jet engine that they put on a ship.  And when we go really fast, we use up fuel, we use up fuel quite a bit. So what would happen normally is ships would go through the Suez Canal.  So this is prior to 9/11.  So this was relatively routine.  So we would pull into the port of Yemen, and then we would refuel.  Nobody would leave the ship.  We would just get more fuel, and then we would shoot off back and head into the Arabian Gulf.  So again, at the time, we were probably the 12th ship to pull into Aden, Yemen. Now, in 2020, no ship ever would pull into Aden, Yemen because Aden, Yemen is really a war zone, and it has been a war zone for quite a while.  Back in 2000 it was deemed peaceful enough for us to go into.  So we pulled into Aden, Yemen on the morning of October 12th.  In my job as the Assistant Operations Officer, I had actually sent out the messages requesting fuel, so when I put out one of those messages, that unclassified the port visit.  So what that means is that basically you could fairly easily find out we were pulling into Aden, Yemen, and again, that was a routine thing that we did.  Yes. Geographical Position of Yemen BILL YATES:  For those who are geographically challenged and maybe not have a map in front of them, so you’re just a bit south of Saudi Arabia. MATT HARPER:  Correct, yeah. BILL YATES:  So you’re below Saudi, you’re a bit to the west of Africa, the continent. MATT HARPER:  Yes, yes. BILL YATES:  So give everybody, kind of draw an audio picture. MATT HARPER:  Sure.  So if you start in the eastern end of the Mediterranean, so the eastern end of the Mediterranean of course is Israel, and then south of Israel eventually is Egypt. Then there’s the Suez Canal.  So really on the eastern edge of the Mediterranean, the Suez Canal, and that will go into the Red Sea, which is going to be on the western side of Saudi Arabia.  So you are correct, you go down through the Suez Canal, you go through the Red Sea.  At the bottom of the Arabian Peninsula is Yemen, and then across from the Red Sea is the Horn of Africa, which is Kenya, Djibouti, Somalia.  So that’s a significant kind of hotspot for the world and one of the choke points that the Navy likes to make sure that we understand what’s going on, that choke point going through the Red Sea and of course up to the Suez Canal.  So if you keep going around the Arabian Peninsula, you go up along the coast of Yemen, you’ll go up around the UAE and Oman into the Arabian Gulf. October 12th 2000 BILL YATES:  So from a project standpoint, you’re in a remote location, way away from headquarters and base and supplies, you’re having to go to an area to get restocked.  In this case you need fuel, and so that sets the stage for the events you’re going to describe. MATT HARPER:  Yeah.  That’s exactly it.  We are, at that time, again in 2000, we are in a pretty austere and remote location; correct.  And that will lead us to be, after attack – I’ll jump ahead very slightly.  After attack we will remain in Yemen for about two, two and a half weeks because it takes so long to come and basically get us. BILL YATES:  Right. MATT HARPER:  Yeah.  So it’s the morning of October 12th, and again, very routine stop, we’ve done this before.  Every Navy ship does this in some capacity.  So we pulled up to a refueling pier.  We had been there for about an hour when a terrorist small boat th

“Why are we throwing away perfectly good stuff?” That’s the question our guests John DuCongé and Shan Arora are asking us this episode as we join them for a tour of the Georgia Institute of Technology’s recently completed Kendeda Building for Innovative Sustainable Design. This building was designed and built to the Living Building Challenge 3.1 certification standards, the most advanced measure of sustainability possible in the current built environment, with some of the most stringent building performance standards in the world.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. We’re facing new challenges that are changing the way that we work. Listen in as we address the specific challenge of working remotely. Table of Contents 00:43 … Coronavirus Impact – Keep Calm and Manage This 02:23 … Working Remotely and Managing Yourself 03:57 … Establishing a Rhythm 07:40 … Dealing With Interruptions at Home 11:45 … Sticking to a Schedule when Working Remotely 15:53 … Interruptions and Communication Methods with your Team 16:51 … Turning on Video Cameras 19:33 … Making Time to be Proactive 21:27 … Turning it Off at the End of the Day 25:39 … Experiment with Collaboration Tools 27:58 … Can I trust my Team to be Accountable? 31:57 … Facing New Challenges with Grace 34:35 … Connect with Crystal 35:20 … Closing CRYSTAL KDAKIA:  It’s already a tough time.  So really using this as a time to bond together.  Times of crisis are great to emphasize a positive company culture.  So, and I think that goes both ways.  Both frontline employees, team managers, and team leaders need to have a lot of grace in all those categories because everyone is adjusting to a new normal. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m Wendy Grounds, and with me in the studio is Bill Yates. BILL YATES:  Hi, Wendy. WENDY GROUNDS:  Every two weeks we get together to talk about what matters to you as a professional project manager, and this week there’s a lot that we want to talk about. Coronavirus Impact – Keep Calm and Manage This BILL YATES:  Yeah, these are very unusual times, not like anything that I’ve ever experienced in my lifetime.  The COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic has hit, and it’s affected everyone on Planet Earth.  It’s changing the way that we work.  And we thought, what a great time for us to address the challenge that is new to us as project leaders.  We wanted to talk about specifically how to work remotely. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes.  I’m sure a lot of people are worried and anxious.  Someone wise I heard saying this on Sunday is we can’t allow uncertainty to dictate how we are going to react.  You know, we can’t change what we can’t control.  But there are things we can control, and that’s what our guest is going to speak about today. BILL YATES:  Yeah, that’s great.  I think it goes right along with our tagline of “Keep Calm and Manage This.” WENDY GROUNDS:  Absolutely. BILL YATES:  We’ve got a lot of challenges to keep calm, so we’re all wondering how do we manage this. Fortunately, we have a past guest of our podcast, Crystal Kadakia, who’s going to join us today.  She’s had a lot of experience working remotely, she’s also written a lot about the ups and downs of working remotely, some of the challenges and some of the benefits of it.  And she is all about creating a better workspace.  So we are delighted to have Crystal join us today.  Crystal, thank you so much for joining us. CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  Thanks for having me.  Thanks for – it’s nice to be back. BILL YATES:  Well, it’s a spur of the moment thing, but the times call for it. CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  I think that it’s very timely, and also just something that I’ve been really wanting to share more and more about.  So I’m really glad that we’re getting a chance to talk about it. Working Remotely and Managing Yourself WENDY GROUNDS:  Crystal, you wrote a blog which recently we’ve published on the website:  “Does Coronavirus Have a Silver Lining?  A Guide for the Newly Remote Manager.”  And we’ve kind of highlighted some things in this blog that we want to talk about, can we start off with managing ourselves, what it looks like when you’re working remotely and how to manage yourself? CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  Yeah, sure.  So the first thing about all this is you have to take care of yourself first, if you’re managing a team remotely, and you don’t have your own work environment together, your own rhythms and rituals at home ready, you’re not going to be able to manage the team.  So you’ve got to focus on yourself first.  And a lot of people don’t necessarily know this about me, but I’ve been working remotely for 10 years.  It first started because I was having health issues, and those really drove me to try out a different lifestyle. At first, yeah, remote working is hard.  But over time I started realizing I can’t go back.  I really can’t go back.  And it’s because remote working gives you the opportunity to have more control over your work environment, over your interactions with people.  So it doesn’t necessarily mean no people, even though right now we’re talking about social distancing, like we’re never going to see people again, it’s not really social distancing.  To me it’s more of a physical distance, and so you’ve just got to do things a little bit differently. Establishing a Rhythm BILL YATES:  Crystal, it’s great to have the perspective of someone who’s been doing this for quite a long time. So for many, we’re facing this for the first time, everybody likes rhythm, right? They like the cadence of getting up in the morning, fixing your coffee, or maybe you stop somewhere to get coffee on the way to work.  You come in, you kind of, you know, you do the rounds, you talk with people, and then you settle into your workspace, and you start doing your thing.  You know, so there’s kind of a rhythm to life in the office.  How difficult was it for you to establish a similar rhythm when you were working from home? CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  Yeah, it definitely took some rounds of iteration, you know, I think I’ve also changed it over time.  At first I tried one of those really rigid kinds of things, you know, that you get, like, everyone has these clickbait journals now on Instagram and Facebook that’s like, you know, “30 Days to Better Habits,” and every single part of your day is super structured. BILL YATES:  Right. CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  And so you wake up, you do a reflection, you do your yoga and meditation, you eat your breakfast, you say hi to the kids, you sit down, and you’re ready to go; right?  And it’s very, very rigid.  And I realized that that was me trying to force my corporate work environment into a home work environment, which is a lot more inherently flexible because it’s your home; right?  So you do have your family around, you do have your own things that you love about your home that make it really easy for you to stay in bed or to go make a great snack.  You can go check on people that you love. And so I realized, for me at least, my rhythms and rituals needed to be much more fluid, and I found energy management to be a much more valuable concept. So for those of you who are freshly remote, I really recommend just taking a few minutes to just see where’s your energy at? What’s your work asking you in terms of core work hours?  Definitely respect those, but around those, what else do you really need to focus?  What do you need to get in touch with people?  What kind of environment do you need? And what kind of family agreements do you need to set up? One of the ones for us that was really hard – because my husband also works from home, we both have our own businesses – is you would love to just check in on each other throughout the day.  I mean, you know, if I’m getting bored working on something, so I would get up and go say hi to him.  Well, he might be deep in something at that point; right? BILL YATES:  Right. CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  And so, you know, that’s not helpful.  So we’ve really started realizing over time that, hey, maybe you need to look at the person’s face and see what they’re doing and see how intently they’re focusing on something before you give them a hug or a kiss, or check in and say hello.  And I’m sorry, we’re kind of newly married, so I don’t know, that might not – but, you know, we got married last year.  And so anyway, that’s a little bit TMI.  But, you know, if you’re at home, everything’s TMI, you know, what are you going to do about it? So I would just recommend spending some time thinking about your energy and creating some family agreements respecting your team’s norms, and then sharing what you’ve come up with to the rest of your team.  For some of you it might still be very structured.  For others you might find you might start shifting your waking hour because you don’t have a commute, you don’t have to get completely dressed up.  And you know what, that extra 30 minutes of sleep, you might find out that that’s a huge benefit to your productivity overall. Dealing with Interruptions at Home BILL YATES:  You’ve said so many things that I want to dig into.  Wendy, I know one thing, when you were setting up the room that we’re in that we do our podcast in, you wired a light so we could let the outside office know when we’re recording.  You know, so, hey, try to keep things down, no wrestling in the hall right now, you know, or no ping pong, we’re trying to record something here. And so I think what a practical thing for us to do from a home office, too, just to give that signal to other people that live with us to know, hey, I’m on a call now. So I’ll put this piece of paper up, or I’ll, you know, if I close the door, that means I’m on a phone call, or I shouldn’t be interrupted.  But I’ll remember to crack the door open or change the sign to let you know when I’m available for interruptions, you know, when I’m more interruptible. CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  Yeah, this might sound really silly, but one thing that we do is we have a shared Google Calendar, and I can see his meetings, and he can see mine. Especially because we do things like this, like web conferencing with people, and again, I know more of you are doing that now, as well.  And, you know, you don’t necessarily want your significant other or your kids walking around in the background, so that can often help is just having like a shared calendaring system....

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Hear advice on how to achieve constructive crucial conversations, and how to ‘rethink’ a story that is driving a negative emotion. CARRIE WOODS: People don’t care what you know until they know that you care.  And when they know that you care, they will start responding.  And they will feel safe enough to show you their true meaning. Table of Contents 00:58 … Meet Carrie 02:15 … Getting into Crucial Conversations 04:14 … Crucial Conversation Definition 05:32 … Warning Signs of a Crucial Conversation 07:00 … Verbal and Non-Verbal Communication 08:32 … Achieving a Constructive Crucial Conversation 10:30 … Facts and Stories 15:00 … Using the Right Strategy in a Crucial Conversation 20:58 … Getting to the Root and Performing “CPR” 25:23 … Accountability and Changing Behavior 27:42 … Softening the blow in a Crucial Conversation 32:11 … Creating Safe Environments 33:02 … Moving from Conversation to Results 35:32 … Get in Touch with Carrie 36:50 … Closing WENDY GROUNDS:  Hello I am Wendy Grounds and welcome to the Manage This podcast, this is the show by project managers for project managers! And so with me in the studio is a familiar voice, Bill Yates.... BILL YATES:  Hi, Wendy.  Good to be here. So you may notice that Nick Walker is not in the room, he was here for the first 100 episodes.  And Nick was actually, he acquired so much knowledge as a project manager, he’s taken a new gig as a project – just kidding.  He has retired, and he has moved closer to family so he can be with his grandkids, and he and his wife can spoil them. WENDY GROUNDS:  I think he actually mentioned he was project managing a wedding coming up. BILL YATES:  That’s true. WENDY GROUNDS:  So, yeah, he’s using those skills. BILL YATES:  Yes, that’s absolutely true. Meet Carrie WENDY GROUNDS:  You know Bill, we’ve all had those difficult conversations, those conversations where the stakes are high and everyone has a different opinion and then emotions get involved. Well, on this episode, we’re talking about just those conversations. Crucial ones and our guest Carrie Woods is going to describe to us how facts and stories drive our emotions and also how we can move from those crucial conversations to getting results.  Carrie is an author, speaker, master trainer, and executive coach as well as a Certified Platinum Level VitalSmarts Trainer in Crucial Conversations.  Carrie, welcome to Manage This, we’re so glad you could join us today. CARRIE WOODS:  Thank you.  Thank you so much.  It is absolutely fantastic to be here today. WENDY GROUNDS:  Well, we’re happy to have you. So could you just tell us, what brought you into this line of work, and what makes you passionate about it? CARRIE WOODS:  Absolutely, so about 14 years ago I transitioned from the corporate world into being a full-time writer, of all things. And with that, as my client base grew, I moved into instructional design, and from instructional design moved into facilitating the content that I was developing for various organizations, and so today we work with companies like Amazon, Volkswagen, Lincoln Electric, helping develop leaders at all levels to be more effective. Getting into Crucial Conversations BILL YATES:  Well, so one of the things we’re excited about is this whole topic of Crucial Conversations, and it comes from a book, a very popular book, something that a lot of life coaches and others put to work.  And I’m excited about seeing how we can relate this to the world of project managers.  How did you first get into this Crucial Conversations?  Did you read the book?  Did somebody recommend it?  Or how did you become a master trainer with this? CARRIE WOODS:  Oh, my goodness, so several years ago, actually, the book was recommended to me, and as I shared – so we work with all kinds of companies. And what we found, especially with  my background as a writer, is communication and effective communication is the foundation of any leadership skill. So it doesn’t matter what topic I have on the screen – conflict resolution, driving change, employee engagement, we can go through all the buzzwords.  If you are not communicating well, then you are not being understood, and you cannot drive any of those behaviors towards the results and the outcomes that people need. So I was always looking for how do people communicate well because it’s something that some people do inherently, it’s just a skill that they have.  And those are the people that we look at, and we go, man, they can just get things done.  What is different about them that they’re just successful while I’m sitting here stuck? And so it comes down to they communicate well. So with that, the next step, being a trainer, and being somebody who designs learning content, you go, okay, how do I make that a transferable skill?  In my quest to identify that, somebody recommended the book “Crucial Conversations,” and so I read it, and I said, this is it.  I don’t have to figure this out because they’ve done it.  Why reinvent the wheel?  Because they have created an approach that is so transferable, so easy to apply, and so effective that it truly does change people’s lives in an amazing way. Crucial Conversation Definition BILL YATES:  So define, what is a “crucial conversation”? CARRIE WOODS:  Absolutely.  Crucial conversations are those moments – so I tell my clients it’s where you find yourselves at a crossroads where you and I are having a discussion, and the stakes are high. Okay?  The outcome really does matter, we don’t agree on what that outcome should be, and now emotions are also running hot. So when you find yourself in the middle of that triangle of high stakes, very emotional, and outcomes matter, that is the reality of a crucial conversation. And I can explain that all day long, and so you can kind of look at it in retrospect and go, oh, yeah, I know what you were talking about. BILL YATES:  That was one. CARRIE WOODS:  That was one.  In the moment how you tend to recognize it is your body’s fight-or-flight response kicks in, and you might not realize what’s happening, but you can feel it. Those butterflies start in your stomach, or maybe your neck starts to get hot, your voice starts to quiver a little bit, and so you go, “Oh, something’s changed.  Something’s changed.”  And that’s your warning sign that this conversation has just turned crucial. BILL YATES:  So those are some of the indicators about, okay, these are like signs that a crucial conversation is popping up. CARRIE WOODS:  Absolutely. Warning Signs of a Crucial Conversation BILL YATES:  Sometimes I think project managers know they’re going into a crucial conversation because, oh, my goodness, I have to meet with the sponsor and ask for a 10 percent budget increase. Or I’ve got to meet with a customer and tell him that the big nasty risk actually occurred, so now I’ve got to deal with it. We need some extra money, some extra time, you know, something bad, bad quality issue.  Then there are other times, I think, where we’re kind of caught off guard by it.  So tell us, what are some of these warning signs that you can go into? CARRIE WOODS:  So when your body senses a threat, you automatically go into the physiological fight-or-flight response, and what happens with that is in that moment your brain floods your synaptic cleft with everything you’ve got.  It’s like hitting the overdrive turbo boost on a car and just all your adrenalin, all your hormones, everything.  So the reaction to that is that all of these physiological changes happen, your hands start to shake, your voice starts to shake, butterflies in your stomach, your neck can get hot.  These will vary from person to person. BILL YATES:  I sweat.  I tend to sweat a lot. CARRIE WOODS:  You get that sweaty response? BILL YATES:  Like I am full-on working out at the Y.  I mean, I am, like... CARRIE WOODS:  Yes.  And so when I describe this, everybody, they relate because they know what theirs are, even though it might not match with everybody else in the room.  And when you feel that, you start to go, oh, okay, I need to pay more attention here because – and so it comes down to verbal/nonverbal communication, which we could do a whole ‘nother podcast on.  Verbal and Non-Verbal Communication But let me ask you guys a quick question.  If I had to ask what percentage of the communication that you put out in the world on a daily basis do you believe is verbal, so how much of what you say comes out of your mouth? WENDY GROUNDS:  I would say maybe about 40 percent.  BILL YATES:  And so I know the stats on, yeah, I think I know where you’re going with the nonverbal, and it’s way higher than you would expect, share those.  What are those facts? CARRIE WOODS:  Way higher, so the research shows us that it’s approximately 7 percent. BILL YATES:  Is verbal. CARRIE WOODS:  Is verbal.  So only 7 percent of our communication is verbal, everything else is nonverbal.  It’s your inflection, your expression, your hand gestures, how you fix your hair, how you dress, how you stand, so all of these things.  And you can actually see the impact of this.  Have you ever sent a text or an email to somebody, and all of a sudden they’re mad, and you have no idea why? BILL YATES:  Yeah. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes. CARRIE WOODS:  Okay, so this is why your iPhone now has 2,000 emojis, because they’re desperately trying to put nonverbal cues back into verbal communication.  Have a good day, smile smile smile smile smile smile.  Really?  Please don’t be mad.  Not, you know, good luck with that.  So when we go back to the idea of a crucial conversation, that physiological response, we pick up on those nonverbal cues automatically, and we start to react to them even though we’re not necessarily aware of them yet....

The Podcast for Project Managers by Project Managers. As we celebrate 100 episodes we thank our listeners who have joined us for the journey. In this podcast Nick expands on some lessons he has learned about project management from his time on Velociteach’s Manage This. Table of Contents 00:06 … Celebrating 100 Episodes 03:29 … Nick’s New Adventure 07:00 … Reviewing Past Conversations 08:33 … Conducting Effective Meetings 10:13 … Virtual Team Communication 14:38 … Being Transparent and Maximizing Potential 17:59 … The Essential Components 19:27 … Importance of Integrity 22:45 … Building Blocks of a Project 24:24 … Dealing with Stress 25:34 … Cybersecurity: Creating Awareness 28:44 … Story from a Vietnam Veteran 31:55 … Learning Superior Processes 35:12 … Stimulate Progress and Maintain Excellence 39:00 … Great Leaders Bring Calm to Chaos 43:14 … Nick Signing Off Celebrating 100 Episodes NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  We are so proud and so excited to mark our 100th episode.  Everybody’s here to celebrate:  Andy Crowe and Bill Yates, producer Wendy Grounds, engineer Andie Leeds.  And we’re so glad you have joined us for the celebration, too, but also for joining us and supporting us in our Manage This journey over the past several years. Andy, I’m going to ask you, go back in time, tell us the story behind the podcast.  What was your vision for the podcast then, and has that changed over the years? ANDY CROWE:  Well, Nick, that’s an interesting question.  You know, if you go back in time, I used to be on the project management speaking circuit quite a lot. And so one of the things that always happened is people would come up and say, “I’ve been listening to these CDs”  we used to produce CDs, now they’re digital downloads.  But Bill Yates and Louis Alderman and I were on there, and people would come up and say, you know what, “I’ve been driving around in the car, I’ve been listening to that.”  One person said that when their child misbehaved in the car, that they would actually make them listen to 30 minutes of that. NICK WALKER:  Oh, cruel and unusual punishment. ANDY CROWE:  It was a really funny interchange. BILL YATES:  I’ll get feedback on that one. ANDY CROWE:  One of the things that I figured out during that series of conversations, though, is people would always come up afterward. And so they didn’t want to talk about what I had spoken on that evening at the project management meeting, they wanted to talk about the audio series that we did. And I told Bill, I said, you know, there’s a few things.  Number one, project management is a really difficult job for a lot of people because you’re effecting change, and the world resists change.  So you have people trying to create something that doesn’t exist, to make something different, and this gives us a chance just to have a conversation with people.  Every couple of weeks we get a chance to talk, and it is, it is a conversation, so I like to think of it that way. You know, so we get feedback from listeners, and we try and incorporate that into where we’re going.  But that was the whole goal is just to engage people, and part of it to say, look, we know it’s a tough job.  There are easier ways to make a living than being a project manager.  And at the same time people who do that for a living, a lot of times it’s more of a calling than a profession. So it’s something that you, you know, you can’t imagine doing anything else, it’s a chance for us to engage with people, and that’s the whole goal.  You know, we don’t monetize this podcast, we don’t sell ads, we don’t ask for donations, we’re doing it because we love this profession, too. BILL YATES:  It’s a way for us to connect with our tribe.  When I think about some of the podcasts that have meant the most to me, it’s when people are going through some of the same struggles that I have as a project manager.  Nick, I haven’t really looked at the map, but I know we’ve had, I think, just about all the continents.  We’ve had guests from all over, you know, Australia.  We had Colin, I think he joined us like 11:00 p.m. his time. NICK WALKER:  Oh, man, yeah, yeah. BILL YATES:  It was something extreme, I know, from the U.K. and from other places.  So it’s so interesting to hear perspectives from all different industries in all different locations and the struggles that they have. ANDY CROWE:  We still, I think, probably are missing Antarctica.  But I bet you, I bet you... BILL YATES:  There’s someone out there. ANDY CROWE:  There is someone out there.  I guarantee there’s a researcher.  If they’ve got good Internet, we’ll make it happen. BILL YATES:  Yeah. Nick’s New Adventure NICK WALKER:  And as the outsider, you know, in this bunch, you know, not being a project manager... BILL YATES:  What, you’re not a project manager? NICK WALKER:  Well, you know, I’ve learned something from this podcast.  Not enough to pass the PMP exam.  I’ll have to rely on your book for that.  But the things that I’ve learned, you know, go so far beyond the language and the acronyms, you know, WBS, CAPM, Agile, Scrum, Kanban boards – frankly, I’m still not sure what those last two are all about. ANDY CROWE:  You’re talking a good game, though, pal. BILL YATES:  That’s it, yeah, you’re selling the sizzle. NICK WALKER:  But as I mentioned, it’s such a big field, but it’s also inspired me in my professional life, in my personal life, recognizing that so much of what I do really is kind of project management.  My wife and I just finished one of the biggest projects of our life, so we’ve spent months trying to get a house ready to sell, getting the house on the market, negotiating with buyers, coordinating a move.  That was a big project, and the inspiration that I’ve gotten, not just from you guys, but also from our guests, I think actually helped us be more of a success in that project than we would have otherwise.  BILL YATES:  Nick, tell us more about this move. So this is a pivot point for us with Manage This.  What exactly are you guys doing?  Where are you headed? NICK WALKER:  Well, we have been living in the Atlanta metropolitan area for the last 20 years, I’ve been working at the Weather Channel as an on-camera meteorologist.  I’ve been here for the last few years working with you guys. So the time has come for us to make a transition into a new season of our life.  Our grandkids live up in the Nashville area, so our plan is to get closer to them.  My son and daughter-in-law have three kids, and soon to be a fourth one because they’re adopting a deaf child from China. And so we want to be part of that, we want to be a bigger part of the kids’ growing up. And so the time has come, I think, to say goodbye to television, to broadcasting, and just be a part of their lives more. BILL YATES:  This is going to be a wonderful chapter.  I’m so excited for you guys and proud of the move you guys are making, it’s not a selfish move at all.  We’re going to miss you here at Manage This. ANDY CROWE:  Very much. NICK WALKER:  Well, I appreciate that.  Can I just say what an education this has been, also it’s been a privilege to be associated with such an organization that’s committed to excellence, committed to helping others be the best they can be.  And so that means a lot to me, to be part of that, you folks are givers, as you mentioned, you know, this podcast isn’t sponsored.  You give of your time, energy, your talents to raise others up, and so I really appreciate that.  And I can see that in how you treat one another and how you treat our guests here on the program, it’s been personally gratifying to me to be a part of this great organization. ANDY CROWE:  Thank you, Nick.  I really appreciate that.  You know, a lot of times at a university they will confer upon someone an honorary degree, and so, Nick, by all the powers vested in me, I hereby name you an Honorary Project Manager. NICK WALKER:  Oh, my goodness. ANDY CROWE:  So now you are, that’s it, you are a project manager, you’re one of the tribe.  And so... NICK WALKER:  It goes on the résumé today. ANDY CROWE:  That’s right.  We’re going to miss you, Nick.  Thank you for everything. Reviewing Past Conversations BILL YATES:  Nick, it’s been fascinating for me just to see what’s resonated with you.  So we’re going to take a look back at some of those podcasts that maybe stood out more to you, some of the guests or some of the topics that we had. NICK WALKER:  It’s hard to really talk about which ones stick in your mind because, you know, you go back, and you look at some of these topics, and we have had some amazing guests.  You know, we talked about Tabetha, who had a star named after her, the most mysterious star in the universe.  We also went down below the seas, talked about underwater vehicles with Oceaneering International,  Wildfires in California, Cataloging space debris, Saving rhinos.  We went in depth in managing the Fukushima disaster, we also talked about managing a major motion picture with “Guardians of the Galaxy.” BILL YATES:  Yeah, with Pez, yeah. NICK WALKER:  So there’s been a lot of fun stuff.  But there’s also been a lot of practical stuff, as well.  We talked about negotiation techniques.  We talked about performance reviews, risk management.  We’ve dealt with Agile a lot, you know, answering the question, “Is Agile right for me?”  We talked about changes in the PMP exam, we answered listeners’ questions. And we talked about using the right software to get the job done.  Conflict management.  All very practical things, so many episodes dealt with such a variety.  You know, I came into this podcast kind of green, not really knowing even what project management was, but realizing that it is all of these things that we talked about, and much more. ...

The podcast for Project Managers by Project Managers. As organizations are going through transformation, there’s plenty of internal and external pressure to adapt, PMI’s Stephen Townsend talks about the changes and challenges for project managers, future trends in the marketplace, and how the role is evolving. Table of Contents 00:26 … Meet Stephen 02:02 … Cooks vs Chefs 08:53 … Enhancing your Toolkit 10:41 … Conflict and Adaptation 13:14 … Future Trend: Soft Skills to Accelerate Innovation 21:12 … Building New Skills and Capabilities 25:31 … Global Executive Council Talent Management Survey 29:56 … How Organizations can Help PMs Increase Value 35:54 … Challenges as Opportunities to Change your Perspective 42:13 … A Revolution of Project Management 44:48 … Connect with Stephen 46:02 … Closing STEPHEN TOWNSEND: ...one of the key things I would say to individuals is, if you’re completing PDUs just to tick the box, you’re wasting an opportunity.  You’re wasting your opportunity, and you’re wasting your organization’s opportunity because this is really your investment in ensuring that you remain competitive in today’s environment, not only within your organization, but also competitive with your peers who are project leaders. NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  This is our opportunity to meet with you and talk about what real life is like in the shoes of a professional project manager.  I’m your host, Nick Walker, and with me is the guy who is always on the lookout for interesting and talented people we can bring on our program.  And Bill, it looks like your talent scout eyes have snagged another big fish. Meet Stephen BILL YATES:  Yeah, I’m delighted that Stephen Townsend is going to give us the time on the podcast.  He is a very busy man.  I’ve known him, goes pretty far back, probably 2011 when I served on the Advisory Group for the PMI REP communities, when I really got to know Stephen.  And then had the opportunity to sit in on one of his talks, a couple of his talks actually, at the fall Global Conference back in fall of 2019 and just was reminded of the depth of his knowledge and the experience that he has.  Stephen’s out there in the marketplace.  He meets with so many companies to talk with them about their project management practices and where they’re going, what trends they see.  So great to have him on with us today. NICK WALKER:  Well, before we meet him, let’s learn a little bit more about him.  Stephen Townsend has worked with PMI since 1999, and currently he is PMI’s Director for Network Programs.  In this capacity he leads special program initiatives for the Institute.  One of those is serving on the U.K.’s Project X Research Consortium Steering Committee, supporting the benefits realization management research stream.  He’s also involved in exploring how organizations are enhancing and reinventing their value delivery capabilities.  For U.S. federal government agencies he produces materials to help them implement requirements associated with the Program Management Improvement Accountability Act.  He also leads the PMBOK Guide’s Seventh Edition transformation work stream.  Stephen, welcome to Manage This. STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Thank you.  Good to be with you all today. Cooks vs. Chefs NICK WALKER:  We want to talk with you about some of the changes and challenges you see coming down the pike for future project managers.  But first, I’d like for us to talk about an analogy that Bill says you made at the PMI Global Congress last fall.  And any listeners with a background in the restaurant industry are going to get this right away.  You said that some project managers are cooks, and others are chefs, and also that we need both.  So could you explain that analogy? STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Yeah.  So just to put it in the context of the conversation that we had at the PMI Global Conference, we presented a slide that was intended to be provocative, to get people to really think about themselves in the context of their organization and its current state, whether that’s in transformation, whether they’re in steady state.  And the question was, do you envision yourself as a project manager or as a transformer?  And I’m hoping that people don’t take anything negative from the connotations of a cook versus a chef.  But they really reflect different mindsets, skills, and capabilities that we wanted to emphasize in the conversation.  So, for example, the cook likes process. BILL YATES:  Right. STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Give me a pathway to creating the desired output and constrain change so that I can actually deliver what I’ve been asked to deliver.  And one of our PMI volunteer contributors, a gentleman by the name of Eric Norman, who led the development of the Third Edition of our Standard for Program Management, shares that, in the context of program management, the team embraces change because you’re trying to implement a vision of something that’s completely different, that you haven’t done before.  But in a project, your focus is on constraining change because you have a very specific output that you’re trying to accomplish.  And anything that changes that output requires change across all of the different elements of the project that you’re trying to manage, particularly the cost and the schedule and the resources. So in projects, as much as you can, you try to constrain change, whereas in programs you tend to embrace change.  And so in the environment that a cook operates in, a cook wants to maintain the stable condition.  So you want the oven at the right temperature.  You want all of the exact ingredients in the exact quantities that you need them. A chef, on the other hand, likes experimentation.  For a chef, the outcome is about the experience in finding the right ingredients, in understanding how to blend them, and in delivering a fantastic meal at the end.  It’s not about the deliverable.  It’s about the outcome.  And so in this context the chef understands the properties of the ingredients and how to blend them, how to produce the desired flavors.  Chefs also love improvisation.  They love tailoring, and they love adaptation. So if you look at that in a project context, if I’m the type of person who likes stability, or who understands and feels that the process is the way to guide the achievement of the outcomes, I’m going to be more of a cook.  So I’m going to want to use the process to constrain change, have all the right ingredients at the right time at the right temperature to move things forward.  If I’m the kind of person that loves a challenge, that loves a little bit of chaos I might be more of a chef because I want to be able to pivot and adapt.  I want to use process where process makes sense. But there may be times where we have to pivot.  We have to adapt.  We have to invent our own way of being able to deliver.  And particularly as organizations are going through transformation, as they’re trying to build new transformative capabilities.  The chef characteristics play a much greater role in those types of initiatives than they might in some of your more product or service delivery types of activities. And to the point that we were discussing before the podcast started, we had a young lady in the audience who said that she was actually a mixture of both, that she liked process because process gave her a sense of discipline and order that helped her frame how she might focus on delivering the outcome.  But she also liked a little bit of chaos and the ability to be adaptive and to change and, in some instances, to actually instigate change.  So not just responding to change, but being the one to instigate change in the organization. So people kind of know where they fit in this construct at what they’re comfortable with.  And the key thing is you can be one; you can be the other; you can be both.  And organizations need project professionals who bring both skill sets to bear. BILL YATES:  Stephen, I agree with that so much, and one thing I’ve noticed about the great chefs, they started out as cooks. STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Definitely. BILL YATES:  And I think, drawing that analogy further, I think project managers, again, we have to learn how to walk before we can really start running and sprinting.  And you’re right.  Organizations need both, both those who can follow a recipe and keep banging out consistent great results.  And then they need those who improvise or perform really well when there is a chaotic moment. There’s a show that I like watching called “Chopped.”  And it’s 60 minutes of chaos.  There are four chefs that are competing to be the Chopped Champion every episode.  And those are definitely chefs.  They don’t have recipes.  They’re given, I think, 20 minutes for the appetizer round, 30 minutes for the entrée round, and 30 minutes for dessert.  And they’re competing against each other.  They have the same ingredients.  There’s no recipe, so, you know, cooks beware.  Right?  You really – you have to improvise, and you have all these different resources that you can go to, to pull in different flavors.  And so it’s fun to watch that. But I can see how that analogy plays out with project managers.  And one thing I’m excited about, Stephen, after hearing your presentation, your talk at Global, I was thinking, you know, what a great conversation to have in terms of what you see in terms of trends in the marketplace for project managers.  How do you see the position or the role evolving?  And I know you and I had some prior conversation about a particular study from the American Productivity and Quality Center.  Maybe a good time for us to talk through some of that, some of those findings. Enhancing your Toolkit STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Sure.  Before we go to that topic, though, I also want to point out, because when we use the word “project manager,...

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Have you ever wondered why project team members decide to quit? Join us as we unravel the mysteries behind team turnover with HR expert Cindi Filer. Discover the pitfalls project managers should avoid to retain their team members, foster a thriving workplace environment, and optimize your most valuable resource: your people. Table of Contents 03:22 … Why are People Quitting?05:13 … Survey: Three Reasons People Quit06:03 … Employee Engagement Categories08:14 … Loud Quitting10:31 … Importance of Leadership Training12:23 … What Impacts Employee Engagement?19:24 … Where to Start as a PM20:58 … Kevin and Kyle22:22 … Building Your Team Culture26:05 … Pitfalls to Avoid29:43 … Dealing with Pay Issues32:47 … Well-Being at Work35:15 … Contact Cindi36:18 … Closing CINDI FILER: ...make sure you and your team is catching each other doing things that are positive, and then speaking those out to people.  Because I think encouragement is oxygen.  You’ve heard that.  And so it’s amazing when somebody’s leader calls them out for something that they’ve done well.  It’s amazing how much they feel grounded in that area. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m your host, Wendy Grounds, and with me is Bill Yates.  He is our seasoned project management expert. Today we’re diving into a topic that’s at the forefront of every organization’s success.  We’re talking employee retention.  And together with our guest we’re going to unravel some of the complexities and insights into the importance of maintaining employee and team member retention.  Why do people quit their jobs?  Why do they quit project teams?  What are the top factors driving this trend?  We’re going to be exploring the nuances behind this phenomenon and hopefully answering some of those questions for you today. BILL YATES:  Absolutely.  This is going to be a, we believe, a very helpful conversation.  We’ll be tackling the crucial question of how much of team engagement is attributable to the manager, and what advice do we have for the project manager who claims they don’t have time to focus on engagement, I’ve got a project to deliver.  Spoiler alert, there’s always time for strategies that boost team morale. And of course we can’t ignore the pitfalls and mistakes that project managers should steer clear of to prevent turnover on their teams.  We’ll learn from the errors of others so we don’t have to repeat those mistakes ourselves. WENDY GROUNDS:  We are honored today to have a distinguished guest with us in the studio.  We’re so excited.  We actually have a guest in the studio that we’re not sitting on Skype or Zoom.  We have Cindi Filer with us in the studio. BILL YATES:  Yeah, Wendy, this is exciting to have Cindi in the studio with us.  By the way, we have been using a new studio.  It’s called Summer Street Productions.  It’s a local Kennesaw-based studio that has fantastic equipment and facilities.  We’re delighted to be in here, and super excited to be enjoying the quality and the production value they bring to us.  So thank you guys at Summer Street. WENDY GROUNDS:  Cindi is a seasoned professional who has dedicated her career to help companies acquire and optimize their most valuable asset, their people.  She spent the early days of her career at Delta Airlines and Worldspan, a Delta company in the human resources space.  Twenty-nine years ago she founded Innovative Outsourcing, which is a staffing and recruiting firm dedicated to helping companies find and keep talented professionals, both part-time and full-time.  So stay tuned as we unravel the secrets to fostering a workplace where team members not only stay, but thrive. Hi, Cindi.  Welcome to Manage This.  Thank you so much for joining us. CINDI FILER:  Oh, I’m so glad to be here.  Thank you for asking.  Can’t wait to talk about some human resources stuff. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yeah, it’s good to have an expert in the studio.  We’re so excited. BILL YATES:  In the studio, yes. CINDI FILER:  It’s nice to be in person. BILL YATES:  Yes, yeah. Why are People Quitting? WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes, yes.  To start off with, why are people quitting their jobs?  What are some of the top factors that are causing people to leave their jobs? CINDI FILER:  Yeah, it’s amazing how still today, you know, we had this great resignation several years ago, or even up until last year.  And the reason why people were leaving their jobs then was there was just so much opportunity.  So there was such a shortage of workers.  And when you have a shortage of workers, you really have a great opportunity and market for the employees to go looking; right?  And so there were some employers that were offering, you know, 20, 30, 40% more pay than other employers.  So we had a lot of people jumping ship really fast because many of those people were still working home remotely.  And when you work home remotely, you know, you can kind of unplug from one company and plug into another company, and your life really doesn’t change. BILL YATES:  Your commute’s the same. CINDI FILER:  Exactly.  You’re not losing your best friends.  You’re not missing the Friday lunches, those kind of things.  And so I think it just became very easy to switch jobs.  And because right now, well, in 2023, if you left your job and went to another company for a job, the average increase was about 12 to 15%.  If you stayed in your company and got a promotion, the average increase was 5 to 6%.  So basically they knew those numbers.  And so they decided, “Hey, in order to really increase my pay, I’m going to have to get out rather than move up in my own company,” which is unfortunate because we know as company owners it’s really, really important to keep talent within the company because it helps you grow the company. BILL YATES:  It’s important for project managers, too.  Retention is so big.  I think of some of the projects I’ve worked on in the past, and I’d have a key team member either get plucked away from my team and put on another team. CINDI FILER:  Right. BILL YATES:  Or, you know, the same kind of thing happened that you were describing.  They left for a better opportunity. Survey: Three Reasons People Quit CINDI FILER:  Yeah, it’s amazing.  You know, there’s this survey that came out last year, and basically they said that in ‘21 and ‘22 there were three reasons people quit their jobs.  So 63% of those workers say that low pay was the reason.  So it wasn’t really low pay, but they could get higher pay.  No opportunities for advancement, 63%, meaning that they could advance better at a different company.  And feeling respected at work, which is amazing; 57% said they left because they didn’t feel respected at their jobs. BILL YATES:  And that’s something that we can all have a part in. CINDI FILER:  Absolutely.  And as leaders of people, we can all change that.  We may not be able to, as the leaders and maybe not the CEO, change the low pay or that opportunity.  But we can definitely change how they feel respected and like they’re part of something.  It’s amazing. Employee Engagement Categories BILL YATES:  All right, Cindi.  Let’s talk about retention, and let’s talk about employee engagement.  You’ve given presentations on this topic.  I’ve actually had the privilege of hearing you speak on this.  In my experience, I think back to project teams.  I think about project leaders and what can they influence and what can they not.  So much of what you share just really speaks to that.  But I want to start out with the three categories for the project manager to consider, the statistics.  And this was back to an employee engagement survey that you referenced in June of 2023 in the United States.  Talk a bit about those three categories and just let us know what those percentages are. CINDI FILER:  Yeah.  This was actually done by the Gallup organization, and it kind of is a little bit stunning because they put people into three categories.  One is people are thriving at work.  So, well, let’s go back and talk about what is employee engagement.  You hear that word a lot, and a lot of us business owners kind of throw that thing around, and HR people.  But what does that really mean to you as a leader of people or as people that are working somewhere?  It basically means that I feel totally connected to my job.  Not only do I enjoy what I do, but I feel like what I do matters; right?  And so I feel connected to the company, I feel connected to the work I do every day, and I feel connected to the people around me.  Surprisingly, only 31% say they are thriving at work.  And those are employees that really do feel that sense that we just talked about of high level of employee engagement.  I definitely feel connected. And then the next category is quiet quitting, which is 52%.  So we’re saying 52% of our employees, they’re not actively pursuing getting out of here, but they are not totally engaged.  And so that is a huge number.  In Europe and overseas, that number is even bigger.  But for here in the United States, to have 52% of our workers be sitting somewhere thinking, I will do the minimum amount of my job to get by, and I’m not going to do anything more because I don’t really love the company.  I don’t really love what I’m doing.  I’m just kind of existing.  That’s better. BILL YATES:  So they’re punching in and punching out.  But it’s like, I’m just going to give you the minimum, and my brain is sort of halfway here? Loud Quitting CINDI FILER:  Exactly.  You know, it might go from I’m halfway here to I have my opportunities open for other things, my ears open.  And then this is so interesting.  17% are loud quitting.  What the definition of that is that these employees are actually trying to undercut their employer.  I mean,...

Are you suffering from burnout and low productivity? Sarah Hoban talks about identifying workplace stressors that lead to burnout, and how boosting your productivity can be an antidote to burnout. Hear how to recognize the symptoms of burnout and how to delegate effectively.

The podcast for project managers by project managers. Project Managing Community Gardens. Hear all about an innovative project to increase access to locally grown food and build healthier communities, by empowering local growers, prioritizing local food, and saving food-producing land in a fast-growing city. Table of Contents 01:37 … Meet Britni 02:22 … Food Well Alliance 04:18 … Connecting with a Passion 05:33 … Preparing for a PM Role 07:02 … Stakeholders 07:59 … Plant Eat Repeat Project 09:01 … Aluma Farm Project 13:57 … Communication with Stakeholders 15:03 … Working with City Governments 16:06 … Problem Statement Strategy 18:09 … Facing Obstacles 20:03 … Compost Issues 22:44 … Getting a Community Garden Started 24:55 … Resources Offered to Growers 26:58 … Face to Face with End Users 29:20 … Where to get Produce 29:42 … Advice for New PM’s 30:41 … Lessons Learned 31:43 … Closing BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  I think my advice would be the importance of building your project management toolbox, so learning what are those best practices, whether it’s techniques of communication, how to interact with partners externally or internally.  What are those tools you need, you know, your templates for budget and timeline and meeting notes?  But then in addition to that also still being able to stay fluid and adaptable and recognizing that you may have to change things up because every project is slightly different.  Every partner on that project is slightly different.  NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  We’ve been listening to what you’ve been telling us about what subjects you’re interested in and what kinds of guests you’d like to hear from, and so we thank you for your input. Please keep the comments about our podcast coming.  So you can leave a comment on Google, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or whichever podcast listening app you use.  You can also leave comments on the Velociteach.com website or on our social media pages, it’s your feedback that brings the kind of guest we have on our program today.  And Bill Yates, I need to tell you, I’m not sure who suggested we have a podcast about food, but I’m certainly glad they did. BILL YATES:  It’s making me hungry just thinking about that.  Looking forward to getting into that.  So Britni is going to describe some projects that she’s worked with that are really unique, the stakeholders are unique, the problems to solve are unique.  And I think, regardless of the type of project we have, we can all learn from Britni. Meet Britni NICK WALKER:  So, let’s meet our guest, she’s Britni Burkhardsmeier, a project and impact manager at the Atlanta non-profit Food Well Alliance, a collaborative network of local growers, community leaders, and city leaders, working to build thriving community gardens and farms across Metro Atlanta.  The goal is to increase access to locally grown food in order to build healthier communities.  Britni holds a master’s in public health from Emory University’s Rollins School of Public Health, with a concentration in global nutrition.  Prior to attending graduate school, Britni worked as program coordinator on the emergency health and nutrition team at Save the Children U.S. in Washington, D.C.  Britni, welcome to Manage This. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Thank you for having me. Food Well Alliance NICK WALKER:  Let’s get started by just learning a little bit more about the Food Well Alliance. So how did that organization get started? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  So we started in 2015 with funding from our founding benefactor, the James M. Cox Foundation.  And we really got started because it was a vision between the Cox Foundation and Bill Bolling, the founder of the Atlanta Community Food Bank.  And so together they saw an opportunity to connect members of Atlanta’s local food movement to collectively build healthier communities. NICK WALKER:  And what about you?  I mean, tell us a little a bit about your background.  So how did you meet up with this organization? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah, so I got introduced to Food Well Alliance in 2017, when I was a graduate student at the Rollins School of Public Health at Emory University.  So I was getting my master’s in public health, with a concentration in nutrition, and through a professor and a class got introduced to Food Well Alliance and was part of a team that helped write the Atlanta’s Local Food Baseline Report, which Food Well Alliance published.  Kind of one thing led to another, and I stayed on.  And so, yeah. BILL YATES:  I’ve got something that I have to confess right off the top. NICK WALKER:  Uh-oh. BILL YATES:  I hate cucumbers. NICK WALKER:  No. BILL YATES:  So when you studied nutrition, and when we talk about local farms and farming and bringing vegetables and fruit to local communities, I have to go ahead and confess I am totally cool with this conversation as long as we don’t say we have to have cucumbers.  Can we agree to that? NICK WALKER:  So this guy, when somebody brings in masses of cucumbers that they’ve grown at home in their garden to give out to all... BILL YATES:  To share. NICK WALKER:  Yeah, to share, you kind of... BILL YATES:  I curse them. NICK WALKER:  Yeah. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Good news is that farms and gardens grow a lot of things in addition to cucumbers, yeah. BILL YATES:  Okay, that’s good. So okay, I’m onboard with this conversation,  I’m probably going to get some hate mail on that, and I get it. They’re nutritional, but I am sorry, it just doesn’t do it for me.  There are many vegetables that I do fully endorse and embrace and eat very consistently, but cucumbers are not it. Okay. NICK WALKER:  All right. Connecting with a Passion BILL YATES:  I just had to hate on it just for a minute.  When I think about, okay, you go to school, and you pursue nutrition, and you go deep into that, and then you find an organization that connects with a passion that had to be fun for you.  And, I mean, for so many people, they’re deeper into their career.  They’ve been working for quite a while.  And they’re like, eh, still don’t really enjoy, haven’t really found that thing.  But it seems like you were able to make that connection with this organization that’s like, okay, this is a passion point for me.  Was that the case? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah.  The thing that’s also really exciting about it is, so nutrition’s really broad; right? BILL YATES:  Yeah. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  There’s a lot that fits under that, from the health side to then like food and security.  Do people have access to food?  And Food Well kind of bridges a lot of those gaps.  So, yes, I came at it originally from nutrition in terms of making sure that’s how people are getting their nutrients, and they’re staying healthy.  But then my time at Food Well Alliance, I have learned about why healthy soil and compost is so important to make sure that the food that you’re eating is nutritious; why it’s important for people to have access to these foods, whether that’s farm stands at urban farms or farmers’ markets or community gardens kind of producing for themselves and the families that are there. Preparing for a PM Role NICK WALKER:  You have been thrust in this role of project manager. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yes. NICK WALKER:  So what kind of prepared you for that role? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  It wasn’t something that I really knew much about going into it.  So it’s not like I went into school being like, okay, project management is what I want to do.  But it was one of those things where, in my career, both before Food Well Alliance and then really at Food Well Alliance, colleagues and managers kept kind of being like, you know, the skills you’re exhibiting are really great skills for project management. And so the more that I looked into, okay, what is project management, what does a project manager do, really realizing that that is what I was doing in the projects that I had been placed in.  And so that’s what I was enjoying doing.  I enjoyed working with a bunch of different people on something and kind of, not necessarily being the expert, but working with all of the experts and really bringing them together to produce something kind of incredible. BILL YATES:  And for not-for-profits such as the Atlanta Food Well Alliance, it’s so important to bring in somebody that’s got that skill set and that natural bent of, okay, I’m good at connecting people and managing stakeholders and helping define  requirements and then getting it done. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah.  And, you know, it’s been interesting for me because sometimes that’s just internal with my colleagues; right?  There can be a bunch of us within different teams, even though we’re a small organization, really kind of, okay, how do I project manage that internally; but then definitely externally, as well, because we do work with so many different partners. Stakeholders BILL YATES:  I wanted to ask you about those stakeholders.  We kick around that word “stakeholder.”  But you do, you’ve got internal – you’ve got experts that obviously know a lot about nutrition and a lot about land use and things like that.  But then you partner with everybody from folks wearing coveralls to people wearing three-piece suits. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah. BILL YATES:  So you have politicians, you have people with a lot of money, you have people that have very intense needs locally, what prepared you for that? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  I’m not sure, to be honest, but it is probably one of my favorite parts of what I do is working with everything from the farmers and the growers.  So I work on a couple of projects with Truly Living Well Center for Natural Urban Agriculture, which is an urban farm in the west side, all the way up to organizations like the Atlanta Bot

It’s a “Stump the PM” session! Velociteach Senior Instructor, Margo Love has over 30 years experience managing projects and we are going to discover which of the 49 Project Management Processes she has not performed and why. Margo discusses executing both internal and external projects. Of the 33 Project Documents in the PMBOK guide, Margo weighs in on which she has found to be indispensable.

Hear how to support your team’s success when transitioning to Agile. The adaptation of the Aikido principle of Shu Ha Ri, as well as more info on Disciplined Agile. Table of Contents 00:58 … Meet Alan 02:07 … Defining Agile 04:20 … Shu Ha Ri 08:26 … Non Traditional and Non Profit uses of Agile. 14:43 … Challenges with Transitioning to Agile 17:41 … Disciplined Agile Train the Trainer Seminar 21:48 … Choosing your WoW 23:14 … D.A. and Lean 26:01 … Value Stream Mapping 27:33 … Fundamentals of Agile InSite Course 29:51 … Closing Alan Zucker: ...as long as you are stepping in and making those decisions, the team won’t.  So you really need to focus on stepping back and giving the team that space to make those decisions and allowing them to stub their toes and skin their elbows. So that they will become successful over time. NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  We’re back with another episode, bringing the kind of information you’ve been asking for.  We hope you’ll keep the requests and comments coming in.  You can always comment right there on your listening app, or on Velociteach.com, or on social media.  We love hearing from you. I’m your host, Nick Walker, and with me are the two guys who guide our discussion, Andy Crowe and Bill Yates.  And this time around we’re featuring a member of the Velociteach family.  And like most of the folks around here, Andy, he has credentials a mile long. Meet Alan ANDY CROWE:  He does indeed, Nick.  And we have Alan Zucker on the show today.  And Alan and I go back a good ways.  He and I interacted back before he worked for Velociteach.  We had a relationship.  Somebody I have deep respect for, and I’m really looking forward to today’s podcast. NICK WALKER:  Before we hear from Alan, I want to tell you a little bit more about him.  He’s a certified project management professional, an ITIL Foundation certificate holder, a Scrum master, a scale Agilist, and an Agile certified practitioner.  Alan Zucker is a keynote speaker, and he has more than 25 years of experience as a leader in Fortune 100 companies.  In 2016 he founded Project Management Essentials to provide training and advisory services.  He recently completed a new course for Velociteach titled “Fundamentals of Agile.” Alan, welcome to Manage This.  We want to talk Agile today. And before we really get into it, can you tell me a little bit about what Agile is, particularly for my benefit and for the benefit of those who maybe are coming from a predictive or waterfall background. Defining Agile ALAN ZUCKER:  Sure, Nick.  Well, first of all, Andy, thanks so much, it’s great to be on the podcast again. So Agile is a way of managing projects and it goes back formally about 20 years. And it started out as a way of developing software using incremental and iterative development techniques. So what we try to do with Agile is try to develop our projects and deliver our projects in smaller pieces. And then learn from what we’ve delivered in order to make things better with each of the successive increments. BILL YATES:  Those are some of the keys; right?  Small batches, quick iterations, quick turnaround, get it in the hands of the customer, deliver value quickly.  Those are some of the keys. ANDY CROWE:  Value, value, value. BILL YATES:  Yeah, value, value. ALAN ZUCKER:  And so I think one of the other really big pieces of Agile is that it changes the way we work, and it really focuses on having empowered teams and people really engaged, both from a customer’s perspective, as well as from the technology team perspective. In our traditional projects, particularly our waterfall projects, there’s a big separation between the customers, the business, the development team, the testing team, and on an Agile project we try to get everybody to collaborate together more effectively. So, it’s really interesting, Jeff Sutherland wrote one of the really great books on Agile, and he actually wrote it with his son J.J, and J.J Sutherland, as you may know, was a producer for NPR.  And in the book he talked about how, when J.J. was covering the Arab Spring in Egypt, they really were having a hard time getting the material back to the states for broadcast.  And they thought about how do we deliver the broadcast, and how do we cover the topics more quickly so we can get smaller pieces back to the states in order to meet their broadcast delivery schedule.  So even though Agile was built for software development, it has a lot of applications outside the software development realm. Shu Ha Ri NICK WALKER:  Alan, there’s a Japanese martial art called Aikido, and so within that there’s the principle of steps to mastery of Aikido that’s the Shu Ha Ri, and a lot of Agile leaders have borrowed this principle.  Tell me about how Shu Ha Ri fits into the Agile concept. ALAN ZUCKER:  So a number of the Agile thought leaders use the Aikido principles of Shu Ha Ri as a way of talking about progressing and maturing our Agile. The idea behind Shu is where we’re following the rules, and if you’re doing a martial art, this is where you follow the master, and you really are copying the master step by step. So the idea behind Ha is where we’ve learned the principles, and Ha stands for bend the rules.  So we’ve learned the principles, we’re beginning to adapt the style a little bit for ourselves.  And then the idea of Ri is break the rules, and that’s where you’ve gained your own mastery, and you can see patterns, and you can pool different practices and almost create your own style with this. So one of the things that’s been really interesting for me is I’ve been doing Agile now for actually well over, I hate to say it, 30 years.  And now that I’m teaching, and I’m consulting and coaching organizations, I’ve really gotten to the point where I’ve got that rate, where I can pick different things off the shelf, and I can work with non-software development organizations and other organizations to help them apply the Agile principles to improve whatever they are doing. ANDY CROWE:  You know, Alan, when you were talking about this, something came to mind, I’ve been reading Cormac McCarthy lately and Cormac McCarthy is a famous fiction author.  He will do some things that are so unconventional as a writer. For instance, he doesn’t do a lot of punctuation marks, he doesn’t do quotes, he just goes back and forth with narrative and dialogue, and it’s very fluid. Now, my middle child tried to do this back in high school, and decided he was going to just eliminate certain pesky rules of grammar, but he had not mastered the Shu first, so he didn’t know the rules and you’re not allowed to exactly bend the rules or break the rules yet. So as a writer, this actually resonates very loudly with me, I understand, you know, there are certain rules as a writer that I will intentionally break. The rule in my house is you can use incorrect grammar if you know the rule, and you know what you’re doing, so there’s a little bit of a parallel there, as well. ALAN ZUCKER:  So it’s really interesting, about two years ago I started working with this team. I was part of a small eLearning company, and when I started working with them, they were like, we want to learn Scrum.  So I went, and I did a workshop for them, got them running on Scrum. But I also taught them how to do Kanban, or flow-based Agile, and I’ve maintained contact with the director of the group over the years. And in the last six months they’ve actually moved onto the next version, where they’re doing what they’re calling “hyper sprinting.” So instead of following the two-week Scrum process, or the flow process, they are doing demos two times a week. They’re delivering work as soon as it’s available, they are not doing story point estimates. They’re still doing daily stand-ups and some of those things, but they’ve bent the rules in order to make it work for their organization. And so it’s really interesting, and they’ve been very, very successful with it, that’s in software development. Non Traditional and Non Profit Uses of Agile I’ve also started to do some work with nonprofits. I’m working with the board of a nonprofit near me, and so I’m using Agile principles with them to help them run their board meetings much more successfully. BILL YATES:  What are some of the challenges that you see a group like that – so you know, you’re mixing things up for them and introducing these new concepts. Do you start out with, “Hey, guys, I’m going to teach you Agile,”  or do you just go into specifics and say, “Hey, here’s another practice that I think may benefit our group?” ALAN ZUCKER:  So I don’t start trying to teach Agile theory to a nonprofit board.  What I do is I start in with the practices.  So the new board started its term in July.  So at the first board meeting, I did what I normally do when I’m starting up an Agile team, which is setting the rules of normative behavior. And so I go through a structured brainstorming process, everybody puts their ideas, how should we behave as a board, what are our expectations of each other and of ourselves.  We put the ideas on the wall.  We go through our brainstorming process, and we sort of codify that into the rules of normative behavior, and then we set that as how we’re going to work. So it was really interesting, I was standing there, and we came up with the rules. It was like, we want to be respectful, we want to be efficient in terms of the use of our time. We want to have respectful debate, all these things.  And then I turn around – I’m going through this, and I’m facilitating this process, I see a couple people on their cell phones scrolling through, a couple people sort of having side conversations. And so like a good Scrum master, like a good Agile coach, I said, “Look, you all just established these rules of behavior t

The podcast for project managers by project managers. Hiring the best is a significant undertaking. Our guests Don Lang and Laura Butcher offer excellent advice on how to approach filling a critical position, and choosing a candidate who is a right fit for your organization. Table of Contents 00:48 … Meet Don and Laura 02:03 … Understanding the Whole Person 03:21 … Job Description vs Job Specification 07:00 … Measurable Job Specs 08:12 … Candidate Specification 11:03 … Deal Breakers 11:55 … Talent Brand 13:35 … Being Transparent and the Cost of a Bad Hire 19:23 … Planning for the Interview 21:08 … Building Rapport 23:12 … Laying out the Interview Plan 24:40 … Non-Verbal Cues 25:48 … Note Taking 28:46 … Roles of Multiple Interviewers 32:12 … When No Candidates are a 100% Match 35:10 … Assessing Capability 37:04 … “Hire The Best” Insite Course 38:23 … Closing DON LANG: Oftentimes companies will spend more time investing in a new piece of software or a photocopy machine in terms of doing research and scouring prices and so forth.  And they’ll do a couple of quick interviews and think you’ve made the right decision.  NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  Every couple of weeks we meet to discuss what’s important to you and to all professional project managers.  We try to talk with the best of the best, drawing on their experience and seeing what has worked for them. I’m your host, Nick Walker, and with me is the true voice of experience, Bill Yates.  And today, Bill, we have another full house here in the studio. Meet Don and Laura BILL YATES:  Yes, we do.  It’s great to have Laura and Don in the room with us.  And I cannot wait to dig into this topic because they are experts when it comes to hiring the best. NICK WALKER:  So let’s talk about hiring.  As we all know in today’s economy, hiring the best people is more critical than ever.  It costs a lot to find and interview candidates and to train new employees.  No one can afford to lose time and money from a bad hiring choice.  Employees are an investment, and we want a good return on that investment.  That’s why Don Lang and Laura Butcher are here with us.  They are the founders of Blue Key Partners, a consulting firm focused on helping organizations develop their leadership talent through learning and executive coaching. Don and Laura wrote a course titled “Hire the Best” for Velociteach’s InSite Mobile Learning Platform.  Laura has a background as an HR leader, supporting hiring and talent decisions across multiple industries; and Don has experience as an assessor of talent and in helping leaders apply skills and techniques to get the right person in the right job at the right time.  Don, welcome to Manage This.  Laura, great to see you again.  Welcome back. LAURA BUTCHER:  Thank you. DON LANG:  Thank you. Understanding the Whole Person NICK WALKER:  Let’s just start with the basics; all right?  First, getting to know a job candidate.  To what extent is it important to learn more than just the person’s job skills? DON LANG:  Well, it’s certainly important to understand the whole person because that’s who shows up at work.  Oftentimes in an effort to try and get the best person we focus on some technical competency, some experience, some skills, at the exclusion of really understanding how is this person going to fit in the organization? And I was reminded of that the other day when I was talking to a hiring manager who hired a construction estimator.  Lots of great experience in estimating significant construction projects.  But when they got to work, immediately they started looking at different ways of changing the work environment in their office.  They wanted to move to a different floor because it was too noisy where the other estimators were.  They wanted a microwave brought in.  They wanted someone to help do some of the tasks that typically the other estimators would routinely do.  So very quickly they’re finding out, even though he’s very skilled, he’s not a good fit for that organization.  And they’re thinking at 90 days now that they may have to let him go. Job Description vs Job Specification NICK WALKER:  Oh, my.  How do you sort of judge that, assess that before? LAURA BUTCHER:  Having a thorough plan for how you’re going to approach filling this critical position is an important aspect of hiring the best and hiring the right fit.  So understanding very specifically what’s required in the role and what are the specifications of the candidate that will be best suited for the position.  We often discuss the difference between a job description, typically, and what we refer to as a “job specification.”  So when you think about a job description, job descriptions were created largely in organizations to grade jobs, to benchmark them with the marketplace for compensation purposes.  Job descriptions weren’t created to fill the job or to staff the job appropriately. BILL YATES:  But we use that all the time, don’t we. LAURA BUTCHER:  We do. BILL YATES:  I mean, that’s kind of our first – that’s like our introduction to somebody.  Hey, are you interested in this position?  Let me show you a job description. LAURA BUTCHER:  And what we distinguish when we talk about a job specification is really focusing in on what are the results that this role needs to produce for the organization?  What outcomes  will this person be responsible for creating for the organization?  So that drives a deeper level of understanding of what you’re really looking for in this candidate, what outcomes they need to produce. BILL YATES:  When I was looking through the content for this course, excellent content, I was hanging out on that because I’ve been guilty of that, just showing candidates a job description and not really talking about what my expectations are, what kind of results I want them to hit.  So give some examples.  For instance, I was thinking, you know, maybe somebody’s responsible for first response to a customer, if there’s a change request.  And then I was thinking, okay, that could be in a job description. But maybe going deeper in the spec it’s, you know, what should that thing look like?  What should that response look like?  What’s an acceptable email or phone call or whatever, the kind of communication that we expect, and then the timeliness of it.  You know, I don’t want to be having a performance review with somebody later and go, yeah, you are responding.  You’re doing what’s on the job description.  But it’s not of the quality I expect, or it’s not timely.  What are some other examples that you guys have helped people with? DON LANG:  Well, certainly, back to the example you’re mentioning, Bill, in terms of activities, really, around the job, right, oftentimes we have in mind certain outcomes that we’re looking for.  Like we want to raise the bar on customer excellence.  We want to raise the bar on our responsiveness.  We want to raise the bar on innovation in the changing work processes to be better at it, as opposed to we’re just satisfied with what has gone on over the past several years. So it’s helpful to give the extra thought before going to the marketplace to figure out, so who do I want, to figure out what do I really want to accomplish over the next 18-24 months that is going to have an impact on our business.  And once I can put some clarity to that, then I’m in a better position to actually start to break down, so what are the behaviors and competencies that are necessary in order to be able to achieve that?  That’s where we would generate a candidate specification. Measurable Job Specs BILL YATES:  Got it.  So in the job spec are you driving some metrics there?  Are you trying to make that measurable? DON LANG:  Absolutely, that’s what you would share with the candidate along the way, so there’s no surprises. BILL YATES:  No surprise. DON LANG:  They know what you’re expecting, and so they can perhaps even self-select out, if those are not something that they want to achieve or don’t believe they could achieve, that kind of thing.  So it isn’t a surprise when they come onboard that now we’re asking them to achieve certain levels of results. And so that’s, wow, that’s news to me, I didn’t hear that in the interview process. BILL YATES:  Yeah, right. DON LANG:  We were just talking about activities. BILL YATES:   So thinking about this specification, are we talking about like a 10-page document here?  Is this something short?  A briefer one-pager?  What does it look like? DON LANG:  If it’s more than a page, it’s probably too long. BILL YATES:  Okay. DON LANG:  We’re really looking at I would say somewhere in the three to six priorities, the outcomes, more than that, you’re not actually going to be able to assess the candidate around.  And more than that they’re probably not going to be able to accomplish. BILL YATES:  Yeah.  They won’t have clarity on what really is job one for them. DON LANG:  What matters. BILL YATES:  Yeah. Candidate Specification NICK WALKER:  So we’re talking about two separate specifications here:  the job specification, the candidate specification, what exactly is that difference? LAURA BUTCHER:   So the candidate specification actually flows directly from the position specification.  So when we talk about a candidate specification, we’re trying to identify very specifically what are the technical competencies, experiences that are required to be successful in the role, but also those qualitative attributes, those things that really are the X factor, the things that will make the person fit with the culture, with the leadership, with the values of the organization. And so those qualitative attributes become part of the candidate specification.  And driving those to some degree of specificity,...

In the early 1900’s, the fungal pathogen which causes chestnut blight was accidentally introduced into the United States. It was first detected in New York in 1904 and quickly spread throughout the eastern US forests. By the 1950s, this pathogen destroyed 90 percent of nearly four billion American chestnut trees. Current projects bring hope for the majestic American chestnut tree. We spoke with Dr. Powell about his role as project leader in one such project.

The podcast for project managers by project managers. The NTSB: hear about managing projects for the National Transportation Safety Board. Our guest Michele Beckjord is the Supervisory Investigator in Charge and Project Manager for the NTSB Office of Highway Safety. Michele explains the investigative process and describes some positive changes from NTSB projects. Table of Contents 00:52…The NTSB02:48…Meet Michele05:16…The Supervisory Investigator in Charge05:16…NTSB Project Manager Role08:02…Disaster Response Teams09:50…Incident Response Criteria12:14…NTSB Most Wanted List13:46…Sharing Lessons Learned16:00…Following Up NTSB Recommendations 17:34…Some NTSB Projects19:09…Avoiding Emotional Burnout22:58…Stages of the NTSB Investigation Process28:17…Growing into the Job32:01…Getting Accurate Information33:18…Positive Changes from NTSB Investigations36:40…Find Out More about NTSB Projects37:47…Closing MICHELE BECKJORD: You’re never an expert in a project you’re handed.  You’re the project manager.  It’s not your job to be the expert in that particular area.  It’s your job to get that project managed to its completion point.  NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  Every couple of weeks we meet to try to get to the heart of what you face every day as a professional project manager.  And we do that by talking with people who are right there with you, facing their own challenges and finding their own solutions. I’m your host, Nick Walker, and with me is Bill Yates, who thankfully is the one who keeps us on track around here.  And Bill, we often hear in the news stories of accidents involving aircraft, railways, ships at sea, vehicles on highways.  Our guest is someone right there in the thick of all those stories. The National Transportation Safety Board. BILL YATES:  She is.  And we’re going to talk about the National Transportation Safety Board and have a conversation with Michele.  And just I’m fascinated in seeing how does a project manager manage the situations that she deals with, with the high impact that it has, the high visibility, and just the high stakes of these types of projects. NICK WALKER:  Yeah.  Let’s get into this just by talking a little bit about the National Transportation Safety Board.  The NTSB is an independent federal agency charged with investigating every civil aviation accident in the U.S., and other significant accidents on land and sea.  It also issues safety recommendations aimed at preventing future accidents.  Listen to this number:  14,900.  That’s how many safety recommendations the NTSB has made in its 52 years of existence.  And more than 80 percent of them are implemented. Meet Michele We’re looking at kind of a different approach to project management today with our guest, Michele Beckjord.  Michele is the Supervisory Investigator in Charge for the NTSB Office of Highway Safety.  She has a B.A. in Criminal Justice from American University and a Master of Forensic Science from George Washington University.  She has worked for the National Transportation Safety Board since 1995 and has served as a senior survival factors investigator and senior project manager.  Ms. Beckjord has led investigations of major highway crashes involving school buses, motor coach fires, and bridge collapses.  As a project manager, she’s also taken the lead role in managing major investigative hearings, safety forums, and workshops. Michele, thank you so much for joining us on Manage This.  And we want to start by just hearing more about your position as the Supervisory Investigator in Charge and Project Manager for the NTSB Office of Highway Safety.  What does that entail? The Supervisory Investigator in Charge.  MICHELE BECKJORD:  Well, I’ll start with the Supervisory Investigator in Charge.  We call it an IIC for short.  What the ICC does is lead a team of investigators.  And each of our investigators have a different background or specialty area they focus on for every investigation that we send a team out.  We have three teams in the Office of Highway Safety that covers the entire nation.  And so I am one of three IICs.  My team, and all the teams, are composed of a human performance investigator, survival factors investigator, a vehicle factors investigator, highway investigator, and then a motor carrier.  And so each of those guys has their niche in the investigation.  And of course there’s a lot of crossover. So, for example, our motor carrier investigator is going to go to – let’s just pick Greyhound.  If we have an investigation involving Greyhound, he will actually go to the motor carrier’s location and look through their files and look at their driver qualifications.  And so but you’re also going to have a human performance investigator that wants to know exactly what the driver was doing.  They’ll work in tandem.  Also our vehicle investigator is going to be putting that vehicle up on a lift, getting in there and looking at all the mechanical systems, make sure everything was functioning as it should have.  Our survival factors investigator will do the interior of the vehicle.  So if it’s a motor coach, looking at how did somebody get injured or killed inside the motor coach, and then working with the vehicle investigator to see what type of seats were in there, what type of belts.  When was this built?  What was any retrofit that might have been done?  So everybody works very closely together, but they each have their own area. BILL YATES:  And Michele, do these three – is it often that these three teams are working at the same time, working investigations at the same time? MICHELE BECKJORD:  We have multiple investigations ongoing all the time.  So we spend two weeks on call, two weeks in backup, and two weeks off call.  So each team does that rotation to cover a six-week period.  However, if one of our teams gets sent out on a major crash investigation, the next team in backup may need to go out if there’s another large one that happens so that we don’t miss out on an opportunity to make a difference.  And so you need to be right near your phone, and you have a “go bag” with you, and you launch out to wherever that accident will be.  We say “launch.”  But, you know, if you were talking about deployment, we would go to wherever that accident happens anywhere in the U.S. NTSB Project Manager Role Right now, as a project manager – which I’m sort of transitioning out of that role, but I’ve been doing that for about 18 years.  The project manager takes the reports that those investigators write, and they turn it into the product that the board votes on. Our five politically appointed board members will vote on what we present to them in a report fashion.  That’s what you end up seeing published on the web, that we can then make recommendations, and everyone can go and read the entire report, factual and the analysis, of what happened, why we think it happened, and what we think the probable actual cause of that, either accident, whether it’s a bridge collapse, a motor coach rollover, a school bus fire, what caused that to happen.  So that final product is what I manage as a project manager.  So an investigator in charge will do the investigative part and then work hand-in-hand with the project manager once that investigation’s over to turn it into a report and get it before the board members. BILL YATES:  That makes sense.  So the deliverable is that final report.  That’s what the project manager is ultimately responsible for. MICHELE BECKJORD:  Absolutely.  You’re responsible for the final product of a report.  But encompassed in that report are all of our safety recommendations. BILL YATES:  Right. MICHELE BECKJORD:  So even as a project manager – so let’s say, for example, I just finished a report on Oakland, Iowa’s school bus fire.  All the recommendations in that product will then also tie back to me until they all get closed out by the recipients.  They will contact us, and I will work with them on that.  So the product never really fully ends.  But as a general rule, your product is that project.  That project is the report.  And the report is telling the story of the investigation. Mission and Core Values of the NTSB. BILL YATES:  Michele, give us a sense for the mission and the core values of the NTSB. MICHELE BECKJORD:  Well, the core values, there’s four, so you have transparency, you have integrity, you have independence, you have excellence.  And so those are relatively new terms that we’ve put out there recently.  It used to just be that our mission was investigating accidents that happened in transportation, determining the probable cause, and issuing safety recommendations so that we can try to prevent that type of accident from happening again.  Over the last several years, we wanted to develop more of a core value that we could put out there so people really understood it wasn’t just a mission for us, it was how we went about doing that mission that we take a lot of pride in. And so that’s where that transparency comes about, that we let the entire public know everything we’re doing from start to finish, and how we got to where we are at the end with that project that I put forth to the board members. Disaster Response Teams NICK WALKER:  Now, do you ever work with disaster response teams and those sort of resources to help meet the needs of the victims themselves, so the families of the victims, that sort of thing? MICHELE BECKJORD:  Absolutely, so as soon as we hear about an investigation or an accident that’s happened, we have folks in what we call our Response Operations Center. And so they monitor all the television stations, and they monitor all incoming calls from across the nation reporting accidents to us, whether that’s aviation, rail, marine, any of those.  Once we learn of an accident and decide that we’re going to

The podcast for project managers by project managers. From choosing the best strategy and establishing ground rules, to finally implementing an agreed plan, our guest Neal Whitten describes a thorough and effective approach to managing conflict. Table of Contents 01:54 … Meet Neal 02:44 … Defining Conflict 03:42 … Indicators of Conflict 05:30 … Sources of Conflict 08:06 … Conflict Resolution Strategy – Thomas Kilmann Model 08:46 … Competing Strategy 09:10 … Collaborating Strategy 09:37 … Compromising Strategy 10:15 … Avoiding Strategy 12:40 … Accommodating Strategy 12:55 … Choosing a Strategy 14:23 … 7 Steps to Conflict Management 16:08 … Step 1: Choose the Strategy 16:17 … Step 2: Establish Ground Rules 16:48 … Step 3: Define the Conflict 18:02 … Step 4: Explore Solutions 18:17 … Step 5: Select best Solution 18:11 … Step 6: Agree to Implementation Plan 18:55 … Step 7: Implement and Verify 19:00 … Collaboration 20:09 … PM’s Role in Conflict Management 21:34 … A Benefit of Conflict 22:36 … Overcoming Emotions and Egos 25:04 … Face to Face is Best 26:53 … Instill Confidence in a Team 29:47 … Conflict Mangement with a Boss 32:11 … How to Escalate 32:59 … “I Will Not…” Post Conflict Statements 34:28 … Get in Touch with Neal 35:17 … Closing The podcast for project managers by project managers. Conflict management advice for the project manager on resolution strategies and how to implement a conflict management plan. NEAL WHITTEN: We need each other more than ever.  There’s so much data, so much information there, you cannot be an expert on everything anymore.  We need to work and collaborate with one another.  So that’s part of the theme through conflict resolution. NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  This is our chance to talk as professionals in the field of project management.  We want to address your concerns, your needs, and to give you, not only some tips on bettering your game, but to encourage you in it.  We feature guests who have developed their skills and want to help you develop yours. I’m your host, Nick Walker, and before we get to our guest, I’d just like to personally thank our listeners for the comments we’ve received about our podcasts.  This is how we know if we’re succeeding, how we know if we’re really helping you, so please continue to leave your comments on Google, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or whichever podcast listening app you use.  You can also leave us a message on our website, Velociteach.com, or on social media, we want to hear from you. And right now I want to hear from Bill Yates because our guest today is somebody that you have known for a while.  And he’s going to be speaking to something that is, well, I guess inevitable in any project manager’s line of work. BILL YATES:  Conflict is going to happen, when you have two or more people working on something, you’re going to naturally have conflict, and I’m delighted to have Neal Whitten speak into that.  When he and I were talking several months ago about what topic should we address next for project managers, we landed on conflict management.  And I got excited about that right off the top because this is just a part of life, especially in projects.  We have conflict at home, we have it in school, we have it in every phase of life, but absolutely in the workplace.  So addressing that with Neal is going to be a great conversation. Meet Neal NICK WALKER:  And of course we’ve had Neal on before.  But let me reintroduce him to our listeners.  President of the Neal Whitten Group, Neal Whitten, PMP, is a course author and contributor to Velociteach InSite’s elearning courses and has also been a contributing editor of PMI’s PM Network Magazine for over 15 years.  Neal previously worked for 23 years at IBM, in both project leader and management positions.  Neal is a popular speaker, trainer, consultant, mentor, and best-selling author in the areas of leadership and soft skills, project management, and also employee development. And Neal has just completed a new course with our InSite elearning department, the course is titled “Seven Steps to Successful Conflict Management.”  Neal, welcome once again to Manage This. NEAL WHITTEN:  I am honored to be here.  Thank you so much. Defining Conflict NICK WALKER:  All right.  Let’s get right into it.  What all are we talking about when we talk about conflict in the workplace?  Do we have maybe a definition? NEAL WHITTEN:  Well, I do have a definition, but as you would know, conflict is a natural part of the workplace environment, you cannot get away from it.  As a matter of fact, if you work around people consistently, you’re going to run into conflict, and by the end of any given week, you’re probably going to have had that conflict several times a week. So as far as defining conflict, a definition that I use is it’s a disagreement or disharmony between individuals arising from actual or perceived differences or incompatibilities.  And I want to emphasize the “perceived” part because a lot of conflict is because we have a perception. We have our own lens that we’re looking through, and we don’t fully understand the other person’s position and what they’re going through, and consequently the conflict evolves. Indicators of Conflict NICK WALKER: So you know I’m sure for some people they maybe either like to maybe deny that there’s conflict going on, or sweep it under the rug, or kind of, let’s look on the bright side.  But there’s probably some indicators out there of what conflict is, and what should we be looking for? NEAL WHITTEN: So I’d say some obvious indicators of conflict could be open hostility and lack of cooperation and people missing commitments, that sort of thing.  But there’s subtle conflict that’s everywhere, and it can manifest itself as one or more team members demonstrating a change in communication, such as body language, or tone and volume of voice, or being indifferent or low key, but deliberate sniping and gossiping. Those kinds of things mean that there’s also something going on in the back office, and that we need to get to the root of. BILL YATES:  That’s good, Neal. So the key word of “subtle,” that really resonates with me.  There are times when you walk into a situation, and you see two people at it, I mean, they’re that close to just going physically at each other.  So you’re like, oh, I think I have conflict.  But more often, what I’ve discovered with project teams is what you describe, it is subtle, it’s a different tone of voice.  It’s a lot of times I’ll walk into a room, and there’s not an energy level there that I normally sense, there’s no laughter, there’s no chatting.  You know, there’s no side conversations going on.  And so it may be everybody’s just totally focused on work. But sometimes, after a while, I think it becomes kind of a warning signal of, hey, wait a minute, there is some underlying conflict here. People are at odds.  They’re quiet.  They’re also kind of out of their normal behavior.  So then we need to get into it and see what is the source, what’s happened?  What did I miss, you know, that kind of thing.  So I think the subtle signs are the ones that, as I grew as a project manager, those I had to become more aware of.  So I think it’ll be interesting to see what we get into with some of these examples. Sources of Conflict NICK WALKER:  Is there a common source?  I mean, does it all stem from the same place? BILL YATES:  Well, Nick, that’s why you’re here in the room with us. NICK WALKER:  Ah. BILL YATES:  This is an intervention. NICK WALKER:  To instigate the conflict. BILL YATES:  You’re it, dude.  Yeah, you’re the conflict guy. NEAL WHITTEN:  I hear people often say that breakdown in communication is a major root cause, but it’s not always that. So I’ll give you some examples of causes of conflict, in my course I have over a dozen of them.  But I’ll just throw a couple out from memory here.  Limited resources.  For example, we all need access to resources, whether it’s time or funds or IT services. Maybe you just need a meeting room or help from colleagues, and when there’s too little resource to satisfy that need, conflict can arise. BILL YATES:  Absolutely. NEAL WHITTEN:  Personality clashes.  We all think a bit differently, sometimes the slightest offense can fester into a more serious conflict. And another one’s unfair treatment.  So we’ve got our own perceptions of what is fair and not fair, and oftentimes without the other party having a clue that we feel like we’ve been wronged.  I’ll tell you one that I really like a cause, and that is psychological needs.  Most people have some desire for power, control, and status recognition, and these desires can also lead to conflict.  So let me throw one more out that comes to mind, poor implementation of recognition and awards. Most of us feel that we’re not appreciated enough, and so seeing your coworkers being recognized can sometimes leave you with a feeling of being overlooked and can become a breeding ground for resentment and conflict. And so as you can see from the few examples I’ve given, there’s a lot of causes for conflict, and there’s many more I don’t have. But one thing is certain, conflict is exceptionally pervasive in any work environment.  Even teams that are high-performing teams, there’s still going to be some conflict.  And in fact, in high-performing teams, you actually want conflict sometimes because what it does is it refines the thinking and the thinking process and helps a team to actually move forward more quickly and so forth.  And when I think of conflict, I actually don’t think of negative, I think of something positive. I actually – so I’m not going to say I look forward to a conflict in a negative way, you know, people yelling or something like that,...

Are you at odds with the unknowns of your project? Are you feeling stuck, frustrated, and unable to put a finger on what is going wrong, or why - as if you’re in a “fog”? Carole Osterweil, the author of Project Delivery, Uncertainty and Neuroscience: A Leader’s Guide to Walking in Fog, offers some excellent advice for PM’s facing project uncertainty.

Hear how to be a successful leader by setting the example of being a good human. The author of The Project Book, Colin gives advice for assessing your team’s culture, how to build trust, and how to get your team to stand by you.

Do you lead projects that deliver measurable benefits? An often-overlooked aspect of projects is Benefits Realization, and sadly, many projects fail to deliver their intended outcomes. Renowned expert within benefits realization and organizational change, Rasmus Rytter, emphasizes the importance of ensuring projects actually realize the intended positive outcomes for stakeholders.

Advice on leading a multigenerational team to create productive, modern, cross-generational workplaces, and redefining what culture looks like in the digital age. Bridge the gap between productivity and building relationships that keep team members fulfilled at work.

We are faced with tough ethical choices every day. Do you know the right thing to do? Do you have the courage to do it? The Ethics Guy, Bruce Weinstein talks about ethical intelligence and acceptable behavior in the workplace.

Almost 6,000 rhinos have been killed by poachers since 2008. They are being killed at a rate of one every eight hours, which could mean the extinction of the species in six years. In 2015 Bruce (Doc) Watson launched a groundbreaking project called Connected Conservation in which Dimension Data and CISCO are collaborating to use advanced technology to help eradicate the poaching of endangered species.

Hear about Oceaneering’s Project Management Center of Excellence (PMCoE) and a deep-water pipeline repair operation, off the shores of West Africa, including the planning and repair process, the challenges, and the lessons learned along the way.

Have you been the victim of a cyber-attack? We’re talking with Dr. Don Hunt, an expert in cybercrime and cyber security, to get advice on how to implement effective cybersecurity measures. Listen in to hear how to identify “at-risk” systems and how to secure, and safely share, sensitive data.

Dr. Ruth Middleton-House describes how the shift from the emotional brain to the rational brain in making crisis decisions is absolutely critical. When disaster strikes on a project, learn how to size up the situation, evaluate your options, and take appropriate action.

Listen in to hear an innovative construction story from the Sponsor (Ade Abon) and the PM (Bob Huie)of a 2.4 billion-gallon reservoir, served by a 5m/8km tunnel, constructed by a tunnel boring machine named "Driller Mike”.

Scheduling is a big deal in project management. We're getting into the nuts and bolts of project management tools with Jen Morrisey the Vice President of Product at LiquidPlanner, a cloud-based project management platform.

Mark Von Tillow, US Forest Service Retired Division Chief, Los Padres National Forest, California, and Type 1 Incident Commander, talks about working in hazardous conditions while building healthy teams, managing resources, prioritizing, and much more.

Be inspired to offer your PM services in your local community as J. Kendall Lott and Selena Buchanan talk about PM4Change and the Project Management Day of Service®- where PM professionals can provide services to assist non-profit organizations.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. We are taking a fresh look at project estimation. Topics include the estimation obstacles project managers commonly face, key factors essential for accurate projections, the impact of organizational culture, implementing cost management strategies, and navigating the risks of underestimating or overestimating project estimates. Table of Contents 02:10 … Project Estimating Course03:56 … What do We Estimate?04:46 … Factors in a Project Estimate06:26 … Ensuring Accurate Estimates08:30 … Experience and Experiment10:26 … Choosing the Best Approach11:41 … Estimating Tools12:38 … The Problem with Culture14:27 … Who Participates in the Estimating Process?15:55 … The People Side17:31 … Significance of Historical Information20:16 … Managing Costs22:17 … Underestimating your Project Estimates23:44 … The Issue of Risk Management25:26 … Dangers of Overestimating27:56 … How to Combat Overestimating29:03 … Implementing an Estimating Process33:54 … Closing BOB MAHLER:  ...every time you sign your name on the dotted line, your credibility as a project manager is going to be in question and scrutinized.  And the larger the project, the more visible, the more scrutiny you’re going to have.  You should welcome that, and you should rise to that challenge. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I am Wendy Grounds, and with me in the studio is Bill Yates and our sound guy, Danny Brewer.  We’re so happy you’re joining us today because today we’re going to dive into the world of project estimation.  We’re going to discover the essential elements that demand estimation and the crucial factors driving accurate projections.  With our guests, we’re going to navigate the landscape of estimation tools and strategies as we discover a seamless approach for crafting dependable estimates. Now, the experts we’re going to talk to on project estimating are Ren Love and Bob Mahler.  You all know Ren.  She is part of our Velociteach team.  She also does our Projects from the Past snippets that we sometimes include in our podcasts.  And she is the manager of curriculum development at Velociteach.  She’s also worked in zoos, science centers, and Disney’s Animal Kingdom before she joined one of the Big Four accounting firms; and she has 10 years of unique management experiences.  We’re so glad to have Ren on the team.  BILL YATES:  Now let me tell you just a bit about Bob Mahler. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yeah, it’s been a while since we’ve talked to Bob. BILL YATES:  Yeah, Bob started his career with Velociteach similar to what I did, as an instructor.  So he taught for a number of years.  And then he migrated into sales, a natural role for him.  He’s director of business development with Velociteach now.  His background, he started out with the military.  As a matter of fact, he served our country as a Green Beret through the U.S. Army; served in Egypt, Kenya, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, many places.  After 12 years of service with the military, he moved back into the private sector and was a telecommunications specialist there.  Project Estimating Course WENDY GROUNDS:  Bob and Ren have developed a project estimating course which you can find on our website. This is an instructor-led course for group or corporate training. This course will teach students the most common and effective practices, tools and techniques for project estimating. You can email manage_this@velociteach.com if you would like more information or you can find a link to this course on our transcript. WENDY GROUNDS:  Ren and Bob, it’s so good to have you both back on the podcast.  I wanted to ask you a little bit about the course.  You developed a course for Velociteach on project estimating.  Can you give us some background to that? BOB MAHLER:  Well, of course.  First and foremost, it’s always a pleasure to be here with the Velociteach team, my home, my family, my livelihood.  So project estimating was an interesting and fun course because, as everyone knows, practitioners go through this vacuum towards achieving their PMP where they answer questions about project estimates without any external factors.  And it’s usually very simplified.  Then, once you start doing real work, you realize, oh, wow, there’s a lot of other things that go into this, like who’s doing the work, and when are we doing the work, and what about risk, or what about quality, and what about stakeholder tolerance? When a recent client realized that studying for the exam and reality were very different, they reached out and said, hey, we need help.  And since you’ve made every possible project mistake in your experience that could be made and then corrected it, you’re the right guy.  So that led us through course development for this particular client. What do We Estimate? BILL YATES:  It was fun for me to watch, Bob, you and Ren collaborate on this.  You were getting requirements from the customer, a large hospital system, to develop this course, helping them identify their pain points.  And then you and Ren were looking at it going, okay, what should be covered in this estimating class, you know, based on just the knowledge that we have, the experience that we’ve had from different industries, and then also specifically for this hospital system.  But let me just back up.  Ren, let me throw this one at you.  What kind of things do we need to estimate on a project? REN LOVE:  There are lots of things that can be estimated on a project.  The three biggest ones that I think come out the most when we talk about project estimating are project costs, how long your project is going to take, and the number of resources that you’re going to need to be getting the work done. Factors in a Project Estimate WENDY GROUNDS:  What are some of the factors and the considerations that are essential when you’re building out your estimates?  What’s the information that you need? BOB MAHLER:  So as Ren previously stated, there are a lot of things that go into any particular estimate.  And I’m fond of saying, and I may have just made this up, that estimates are the anchor between scope, cost, and schedule because, if you get the scope right, hopefully, then the estimates, sound estimates, are going to lead you into a solid schedule.  And since time is money, it will lead you into a solid budget. Some of those factors are, how experienced are you at this particular work?  How solid are your estimates for this particular material?  Who’s doing the work?  What’s your efficiency?  When are you available?  What about inflation?  What about interest?  And what about the vendor?  The list goes on and on.  And whenever you think you’ve done enough due diligence, you’re probably only halfway there.  If you’re not scared, then you haven’t done enough work on it. BILL YATES:  That’s a good litmus test.  I like that, yeah.  When you start to feel overconfident, that’s when you’ve probably forgotten to ask a key stakeholder a key question or turn over one more rock.  That’s a good point. BOB MAHLER:  And I didn’t even mention risk.  As we know, I’m a risk manager, too, and I didn’t even mention risk.  Another key consideration is based on the kind of work.  Is it dangerous?  Do you need to estimate more time and cost?  And that list is a whole ‘nother rabbit hole to go into.  But I think I’ll stop right there. Ensuring Accurate Estimates BILL YATES:  All right.  So key question here.  How do you ensure your estimates are as accurate as possible? REN LOVE:  I can chime in a little bit on this one, Bob, which is historical information can be really, really valuable here.  So here’s where you can look at similar projects in the past and say, you know, that took us two years.  So let’s start our estimating there and adjust for some of those other factors and assumptions that Bob just mentioned a minute ago.  That’s a great starting point, but also making sure that you have the best information possible as inputs to that estimating process.  You may hear the phrase “garbage in/garbage out.”  If you’re using historical information that is not accurate or effective for some reason, then you’re not going to have the most accurate estimates on this project. So, for example, if your historical project that you’re looking at took a year off in 2020 because of the global pandemic, thus took three years to do, and you’re looking at this historical project estimate saying, okay, well, that project took three years, this one will probably take three years, too, well, you’re less likely to encounter a global pandemic, hopefully, than that project did.  So that’s something to think about, too. And then the last one I want to mention is estimating in good faith.  So you can’t truly get accurate estimates if you have already been given a target in mind from some external person.  So let’s say you have a key stakeholder that says, oh, it would be really great if this release coincided with the major holiday a year from now.  Well, now you may find yourself trying to estimate your schedule into fitting that timeline, and that is not estimating in good faith.  You really cannot work backwards.  So what should happen there is that you do all of your estimates to the best of your ability, go back to that key stakeholder and say, all right, based on what we know, we’re going to need more money and more resources to hit that deadline that you want.  And so that’s what I mean when I say “estimating in good faith.” Experience and Experiment BILL YATES:  Okay, Ren, you mentioned historical information, which is so important for estimating.  We’ve got to have historical information in order to really feel like we’ve got a solid anchor for our estimates.  I remember you did some research on the Sydney Opera House.  I don’t think there’s another Sydney Opera House,...

Listen in for Andy and Bill's answers to listeners PM questions. e.g: How do I get the team past the storming phase? When to hold meetings and how to conduct them? How to monitor projects closely and how to close them? What are future challenges for PMs?

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Nationality, gender, ethnicity, age, and professional and organizational culture can all impact your cultural identity. Jane Canniff shares her experiences in regard to cultural differences across various multicultural work settings.

Listen in to hear a Project Manager who has years of experience in the trenches . Mike Pondiscio talks to us about managing more than one project at a time, resourceful ways to manage change, communicate with stakeholders, and keep a project on track.

Can introverts succeed as project managers? Jennifer Kahnweiler shares how introverts are highly effective leaders, using “superpowers” to effectively lead their teams. Listen in for expert advice about what motivates the introverts on your team.

Andy and Bill tackle your questions in this episode of Manage This. We appreciate your feedback, and we’ve dedicated this episode to your questions. Andy and Bill share their career stories and the relatable challenges they have experienced as PMs.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Burnout and resilience. How can we move beyond viewing resilience as a buzzword and dispel the notion that it involves only toughing it out or maintaining a positive attitude? Balancing project success with avoiding burnout is a real challenge in high-stress environments Dr. Marie-Helene (MH) Pelletier discusses the necessity of adopting a strategic approach to resilience by integrating psychology and strategy. Table of Contents 02:39 … Why Resilience Is Important03:45 … Do We “Tough it Out”?04:57 … If the Context is Changing, Change Your Approach08:23 … What “The Resilience Plan” Offers11:56 … Helix Shape Resilience Plan Model13:28 … Being Strategic about Resilience15:11 … Creating a Resilience Plan19:04 … Kevin and Kyle20:10 … Burnout24:10 … Can Resilience Cause Burnout?28:20 … Striking a Balance31:20 … Taking Care of Yourself34:15 … Team Resilience37:30 … Contact MH38:07 … Closing MH PELLETIER:  ...most project managers, would not be in a situation where on the daily basis have to explore how everyone’s feeling about everything, obviously.  But they’re also managing a project, managing people who are within this project, and managing themselves supporting this project.  So the more we can incorporate in our observations, the very normal expected demands and expected impacts that these may have on all of us as we navigate this timeline, the more we can, again, proactively manage and be prepared to reactively manage when any one of us, to your point, feels like we need to hit the pause button.  WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome, resilient leaders, to a special edition of Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  Stay tuned with us today for a conversation that will reshape the way you approach challenges in project management. I’m Wendy Grounds.  My co-host, who is the expert in the arena of project management, is Bill Yates; and joining us is our unflappable sound guy, Danny Brewer.  Today we’re delving into a topic that’s the bedrock of success in the face of adversity:  resilience.  In the high stakes arena of project management, where challenges loom around every corner, resilience isn’t just a buzzword, it’s actually the secret sauce that turns your setbacks into stepping stones.  If you are navigating a stormy project or just seeking to fortify your professional resilience, this episode is your compass to success because in project management, the resilient not only survive, but thrive. We’re excited to introduce our guest, who is a true champion in the realm of resilient project leadership, Marie-Hélène Pelletier. BILL YATES:  Yes, we are so fortunate to have her joining us as our guest.  And she goes by MH, which is appropriate.  It’s a handy reference to mental health.  The short form really is a great fit there.  We love that.  So you’ll hear us refer to our guest as MH.  She’s a psychologist with a systems mind.  She has both a PhD and an MBA.  She has over 20 years of experience as a practicing psychologist and as a senior leader in the corporate insurance, governance, and healthcare sectors.  MH’s unique talent is bringing together workplace and psychology, translating concepts into key takeaways that listeners can put into action the minute they finish the episode.  WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes, definitely.  There are many takeaways from this conversation, so let’s get talking. Hi, MH.  Welcome to Manage This. MH PELLETIER:  I’m thrilled to be here. Why Resilience Is Important WENDY GROUNDS:  We really appreciate you being with us.  You released “The Resilience Plan.”  It’s a strategic approach to optimizing your work performance and mental health.  Why is resilience so important?  Why does it matter to you? MH PELLETIER:  Great question, and let me provide a definition because we hear the word, we use the word.  What is mostly the definition, even if we go to literature?  One that most people go with is our ability to go through adversity and grow, come out even stronger.  And by “adversity” here, we mean the acute events, but also chronic demands, like a pandemic, for example.  So we’ve heard a lot about it, we know the kinds of things that would help, and most of us are struggling to implement them.  Yet we know from research that, if we did, we would have a chance to more proactively influence the course of how things will go for us and for people we work with.  So it’s a great opportunity, and that’s why I think it’s so important. Do We “Tough it Out”? BILL YATES:  Sometimes people think you either have to tough it out or stay positive when it comes to resilience.  What is your view on this? MH PELLETIER:  I would say most professionals and leaders at one point or another probably think this way.  And there are good reasons.  It’s actually not helpful, but why do we think this?  We think this because, especially early in our careers, without us realizing it, it just appeared that we could just keep going, not pay specific attention.  It felt like we were naturally like this.  Often people even told us, “Oh, you’re so resilient,” that you just get to a point where you think it’s part of you. So because you think it’s part of you, you just think, put your head down, keep going, stay positive, and that’s all going to be fine.  That’s how we get to think about it this way.  The thing is, resilience is actually not a personality trait.  It’s something at times will be higher, at times will be lower, which means on the very positive side that we can influence it; right?  And we actually should because, if we don’t, and we keep taking from that pool of resilience, well, it will go down just like any other resource. If the Context is Changing, Change Your Approach BILL YATES:  This point really hit home with me early in your book.  You shared a very personal experience of you and your husband were hiking, you overcame an obstacle, and then you faced the same obstacle, the river, a few days later.  And your reserves were low.  You were dehydrated.  You were tired.  I think many of us can relate to that in life and in work.  And then this challenge became something that almost got the best of you.  And that was a real eye-opener for me and grabbed my attention.  Share a bit about that. MH PELLETIER:  Yes, I think each of us have gone through something like this.  And you’re right; this situation for me is in a mountaineering situation and not a work situation.  However, it was a fairly significant experience for me.  And the learning I got from it was a mountaineering learning.  If the context is changing, change your approach, MH, which sounds very obvious.  And but then, as I worked with professionals and leaders in my coaching work and in my speaking, I thought, look at the applicability of this in our work. We have our ways of dealing with challenges.  The context changes.  We are facing more unexpected, larger events.  And yet we keep going the same approach, which – and literally people will come sometimes to their conversations with me and say, “MH, I don’t know what’s wrong with me.  I’ve always responded this way.  It has always worked.  What’s my problem now that it’s not working?”  And often the key is in the context that has changed.  And therefore the approach needs to change.  We need to be adaptable. BILL YATES:  I thought of a personal experience when I was reflecting on this.  One time I was at the gym, the YMCA, doing a normal workout like I would typically do.  This time I think I pushed a little bit harder than normal.  And I finished my workout, went back into the locker room to retrieve my things, and I could not remember the combination to my lock.  So this was a lock combination that I’ve known for years.  And I’ve been in that same situation over and over and over and was able to remember three numbers.  But for the life of me, for five minutes, I could not remember the combination.  And I was embarrassed; and I was a bit, you know, taken aback by it because this is something that I, you know, I do this all the time.  But again, conditions had changed; and, poof, that information, my ability to handle the situation was gone. MH PELLETIER:  Exactly.  And this is a great example.  I mean, that exact thing has happened for many of us, or something similar.  And often when these things happen, we deal with it quickly.  And at the same time, these are really good warning signs to pay attention to.  Quite possibly in this moment, your concentration was not as high as usual.  And concentration does not just fluctuate for the sake of it.  It usually will go down when our resources are so tapped in other areas that it starts to show in concentration, ability to make decisions, sometimes impatience, even other things.  And that’s another thing we tend to do.  We tend to ignore it.  And part of what I’m saying in the book is unh-unh, let’s pay attention to these things early, proactively. What “The Resilience Plan” Offers WENDY GROUNDS:  So we’re excited that your book is going live, “The Resilience Plan.”  What does this offer that’s going to help our audience?  You know, sometimes resilience just becomes like a buzzword.  We all hear about it.  We talk about it.  What are you offering that is really going to help people to improve? MH PELLETIER:  Great question.  And that’s true.  We’ve heard this word. Like we said, it’s not because we’ve heard it that we’re better at it.  And a fair bit of people I work with actually are project managers.  And they’re wonderful at their, you know, their business thinking, their operational thinking, their organizational sense, all of this.  I have a special place in my heart – seriously, for real, I’m not just saying this to you – for project managers.  I’ve been that leader that works with a project manager who wants a million things done now.  And project manager calmly looks at me and says,...

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