Explore every episode of the podcast love & philosophy
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| #96 Systems Neuroscience and Why Automaticity Matters for Cognitive Evolution with Mac Shine | 12 Sep 2026 | 02:08:19 | |
Find Mac at https://macshine.github.io/publications/ Mac’s Lab: https://profiles.sydney.edu.au/mac.shine The Brain Inspired conversation Andrea mentions. Mac Shine on Systems Neuroscience, Automaticity, and the Cerebellum’s Role in Human Cognition. In discussion with Andrea Hiott. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #95 Inventing Temperature, Operational Coherence, Activist Realism and more with Cambridge philosopher of history and science Hasok Chang | 27 Aug 2026 | 01:07:31 | |
Philosopher of science Hasok Chang (University of Cambridge) joins Andrea Hiott to trace the through-line of his work — from Inventing Temperature (2004), through Is Water H₂O? (2012), to Realism for Realistic People (2022) — and to think together about what it means to treat knowledge as something we do rather than something we merely possess. The conversation begins with why Inventing Temperature has quietly become an inspiration for neuroscientists: it shows how a felt quality (hot and cold) can become a trustworthy number (temperature) — not by discovering a pre-given fact, but through a messy, iterative, bootstrapping process of invention. From there, Chang and Hiott move through the ideas that organize his mature philosophy: epistemic iteration, operational coherence, active/activist realism, path dependence, conceptual engineering, and a pragmatist re-reading of truth that no longer leans on correspondence to an inaccessible reality. A recurring theme: Chang describes each of his books as costing him “an article of faith” — first foundationalism, then monism, then the ideal of pure science — and how each loss opened onto a more dynamic, practice-based, and pluralist picture of knowing. Hiott connects these moves to her own navigational approach to mind and NAEC, where cognition is understood as a body’s coherent, aim-directed action in the world rather than the storage of static representations. Hasok Chang is the Hans Rausing Professor of History and Philosophy of Science at the University of Cambridge. Trained first in physics (Caltech) and then in philosophy (Stanford), he is known for “integrated history and philosophy of science” and for what he calls complementary science — using historical and philosophical study to recover scientific questions that mainstream science has forgotten or foreclosed. His three main single-author books are Inventing Temperature (Oxford, 2004; winner of the 2006 Lakatos Award), Is Water H₂O? (Springer, 2012), and Realism for Realistic People (Cambridge, 2022). He is a founding figure of the Society for Philosophy of Science in Practice (SPSP) and the Committee for Integrated HPS. Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions to Chang throughout. Chang’s three books at a glance Book Year Central question “Article of faith” Chang says he lost Inventing Temperature 2004 How did scientists learn to measure temperature reliably without already having a trustworthy thermometer to check against? Foundationalism — the idea that knowledge rests on some ultimate, secure foundation (fundamental laws, or raw experience) Is Water H₂O? 2012 Was the consensus that water is H₂O actually forced by the evidence — and should science ever settle on a single account? Monism — the idea that there is one world, one truth, and one job for science: to find it Realism for Realistic People 2022 What would scientific realism look like if we started from practice and everyday life rather than from correspondence to an ultimate reality? The ideal of pure science — knowledge first, application second (he moves openly into pragmatism) Key terms & concepts (glossary) The definitions below are general but we're staying faithful to Chang’s own usage. Epistemic iteration. Chang’s name for how inquiry actually makes progress: we don’t begin from a secure foundation, but knowingly start from an imperfect position and then use the results of inquiry to correct and refine that very starting point — a self-improving loop with no bedrock underneath. In Realism for Realistic People Chang invokes Peirce’s image that inquiry “is not standing on the bedrock of fact… It is walking upon a bog, and we can only say, this ground seems to hold for the present.” The aim is not coherence as such, but the ongoing improvement of coherence. (In the conversation, Chang stresses that he first thought iteration solved only the narrow problem of validating measurement standards, then came to see it as a very general pattern of learning.) Operational coherence. Roughly, “a harmonious fitting-together of the elements and aspects of an activity, which is conducive to the successful achievement of the aims of that activity.” It is Chang’s practice-based replacement for truth as correspondence: instead of asking whether a proposition matches reality, we ask whether an activity’s parts hang together well enough to reliably achieve its aim. Crucially, coherence is always defined relative to an aim — without a stated or assumed purpose, the word “coherence” has no meaning. Epistemic activity. “A more-or-less coherent set of mental or physical operations that are intended to contribute to the production or improvement of knowledge in a particular way, in accordance with some discernible rules (though the rules may be unarticulated).” Examples: measuring, detecting, predicting, hypothesis-testing — but also mundane actions like lighting a match. System of practice. A coherent, interacting set of epistemic activities carried out with a view to achieving certain overall aims. (This is the unit Chang argues can be legitimately plural: several incommensurable systems of practice can coexist productively within one discipline.) Active knowledge / “knowing how.” Chang’s term (in Realism for Realistic People) for knowledge that resides in ability and action rather than in propositions — knowing how to do something rather than knowing that some statement is true. He argues proposition-based epistemology simply isn’t the right tool for evaluating methods, instruments, or institutions; for that we need to look at the coherence of what we do. Active realism vs. activist realism (a terminology note). In Is Water H₂O? Chang introduced active realism: the view that realism shouldn’t be sitting back satisfied that we know a lot, but should be an attitude — even an “ideology” — committed to continually learning more and better about reality. In Realism for Realistic People he renamed it activist realism, to avoid confusion with his separate notion of active knowledge (someone might wrongly hear “active realism” as “any assured possession of active knowledge”). “Activist” better captures the ever-learning, never-shrinking commitment. (The two terms are easy to run together in conversation; Chang’s clarification here is the reference point for both.) Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #94 Action without Attachment, Conversational Care, and the Bhagavad Gita with philosopher and professor Keya Maitra | 17 Aug 2026 | 01:32:26 | |
Keya Maitra is the Lenney Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at the University of Hawai'i Mānoa. Keya joins Andrea to talk about her Philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita. They discuss this text as a living philosophical conversation. They move from action without attachment and yoga as a redirection of attention, to why the Gita's dualism isn't the mind-body split we know from Descartes, to how holding tension (rather than dissolving it) opens an expanding circle of care. By the end, they're calling it a love story: not romance, but caring, vulnerability, and the way real conversation itself becomes a form of care. Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions to Maitra throughout.
About Keya: "Her intellectual journey bridges continents and traditions. Trained in both India and the United States, she holds two Ph.D.s—one in Philosophy of Language from the University of Hyderabad and another in Philosophy of Mind from the University of Connecticut. She has been a professor at the University of North Carolina Asheville, where she also served as the director of the Humanities Program and Thomas Howerton Distinguished Professor of Humanities (2018-22). Her research and teaching facilitate critical conversations across cultural and disciplinary boundaries...." Mentioned: The Bhagavad Gita: A Contemporary Introduction (Keya Maitra); Barbara Stoler Miller's translation; Joel Kupperman; Daniel Kolak / Wadsworth Philosophers Series; Hilary Putnam; Naomi Scheman; the Mahabharata; Vyasa; Gandhi; B.R. Ambedkar; Thoreau and Walden; Samkhya philosophy; care ethics and non-ideal theory. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #93 Is there a Cure? Reconsidering Freud, chemical imbalances, transference, functionalism & embodied science with Mark Solms | 08 Aug 2026 | 01:36:40 | |
Mark Solms began translating Freud's neuroscientific writings in the late 1980s, then gave twenty-nine years to revising the translation of Freud's psychological works. In this episode, Solms joins Andrea Hiott to talk about his new book, The Only Cure: Freud and the Neuroscience of Mental Healing — and to make a surprising case: that far from being the discredited figure many take him for, Freud built a model of the mind, from the inside, that modern neuroscience is now confirming from the outside. Together they explore multiple memory systems and the unconscious as things we repeat rather than remember; why transference is a far bigger phenomenon than its jargon suggests; the damage done by the "chemical imbalance" story of depression; the stubborn role of time in real change; and, in the end, care — the idea that psychoanalysis is ultimately a cure by love. Throughout, they return to the show's animating theme: holding paradox, and refusing the false choice between the subjective and the objective, feeling and fact. (Please see here for all the papers to really look into the serotonin debate. It is nuanced and requires study and deep thought.) Andrea & Mark also discuss dual-aspect monism, subjective and objective perspectives, multiple memory systems, unconscious processing, state-dependent memory, and transference as the enactment of non-declarative “action policies” that therapy makes visible and revisable through repeated working-through over time. Solms links these ideas to care, politics, and mortality, ending with Freud’s “cure by love,” followed by Andrea reading Seamus Heaney’s “From The Cure at Troy.” About the guest: Mark Solms is a neuropsychologist, psychoanalyst, and world-leading pioneer of neuropsychoanalysis. He discovered the brain mechanisms of dreaming, serves as science director of the American Psychoanalytic Association, and is the translator and editor of the Revised Standard Edition of the Complete Psychological Works of Sigmund Freud. His previous book was The Hidden Spring (2021). 00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro KEY THEMES Freud was a neuroscientist first. Over 23 years he contributed to neuron theory, neuroanatomy, and clinical neurology. His 1891 work on aphasia reframed language as a psychological function — the seed of psychoanalysis. Because his neuroscientific writings were never translated into English, this side of Freud stayed invisible. Two perspectives on one thing. Solms argues for dual-aspect monism: the subjective and objective are two views of a single reality, not rival teams. Feelings can only be empirically observed through introspection — leave them out and you lose half the causal picture. Memory, the unconscious, and transference. Freud anticipated the modern model of multiple memory systems decades early. Unconscious memories aren't recalled as images; they're repeated as "motor policies." Transference is that repetition made visible — and naming it gives the patient the freedom to revise it ("free won't"). Against the "chemical imbalance" myth. The claim that depression is a serotonin deficiency is, for Solms, both conceptually incoherent and empirically disproven. Bad feelings are signals of unmet needs. Medication has a real but limited role — it changes your state, not who you are. Time, care, and cure by love. Real change is slow because procedural memories are "hard to learn and hard to forget." Therapy works partly as re-parenting, drawing on the mammalian capacity for care. Cure and care share the Latin root cura — and Solms ends on Freud's phrase that psychoanalysis is "a cure by love." NOTABLE MOMENTS "One doesn't cure symptomatically. One cures causally." "They're not remembered, they're repeated." "It's called not free will, it's called free won't." "Computers don't give a damn." "Reality always wins." MENTIONED & FURTHER READING
Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions to Solms throughout. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #92 Molyneux's Problem and Questioning the Perception/Cognition Border with philosophers Janet Levin and Brian Glenney | 28 Jul 2026 | 01:52:37 | |
Molyneux's Question with Janet Levin and Brian Glenney Love & Philosophy — Beyond Dichotomy In 1688, an Irish scientist named William Molyneux sent John Locke a letter with a question in it. Suppose a man born blind has learned by touch to tell a cube from a sphere. Suppose he is given sight, and the two objects are set on a table in front of him. Could he tell, by looking alone, which is which? Locke said no, and put the question into the second edition of his Essay Concerning Human Understanding. Berkeley said no more emphatically. Leibniz said yes — with a hint, and a little time. And three centuries later the question is still open, only now it's being asked in operating theatres in New Delhi, in habituation studies with ten-hour-old infants, and in the way a skateboarder looks at a handrail. Janet Levin and Brian Glenney have been in conversation about this problem since Brian's dissertation defense in 2007, where Janet was on his committee. They still disagree (productively) about whether you need to move your body in order to see. This episode is that disagreement, twenty years on. Janet Levin is recently retired from the philosophy department at the University of Southern California. She works on the mind-body problem, phenomenal concepts, and what she calls the philosophy of philosophy: whether thought experiments are worth anything, and whether they can absorb empirical information and still count as philosophy. Her 2008 paper introduced the distinction between temporal and epistemic immediacy that has shaped how the Molyneux question is tested ever since. Brian Glenney teaches at Norwich University in Vermont. He wrote his dissertation on Molyneux's problem at USC in 2007 under James Van Cleve and Janet Levin, wrote the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry on the question, and has since argued for a pluralist answer — that the question has many correct answers depending on who is being asked about, and how. He also works on skateboarding, urban space, and the sensory expertise he calls the skater's eye.
Some words that come up Empiricism / rationalism — The organizing quarrel of the era. Empiricists (Locke, Berkeley, Hume) hold that knowledge is built up from sense experience. Rationalists (Leibniz) hold that some ideas are innate and amodal — not owned by any single sense. Molyneux's question was supposed to settle it experimentally. Common sensibles — Properties like shape, figure, and distance that seem accessible to more than one sense. Colour isn't one; neither is roughness. The question is whether a common sensible is genuinely shared, or whether you have to learn to correlate two separate streams. At first sight — Locke's three-word addition, and, as Brian argues, a trick: it more or less guarantees the answer is no, if perceptual learning is needed to make the correlations. Temporal immediacy vs. epistemic immediacy — Janet's distinction. Temporal means the first instant after the bandages come off, which is probably what Locke meant. Epistemic means the identification is made by perception rather than by inference or association — so you wait until the person actually has the wherewithal to see, and only then test. It reframes what a fair experiment even looks like. Perceptual learning — Changes in what you can perceive that come from experience rather than reasoning. Locke's newly sighted person sees a flat, variously coloured circle before they see a sphere. Passivity vs. activity — Locke assumed perception is passive reception, and that anything active is cognition. So: is moving your head still perceiving? Is watching an object rotate? The whole episode circles this. The perception/cognition border — The contemporary form of the same question, now central to philosophy of mind through Ned Block's work. Phenomenal concepts — Concepts of what it's like to have an experience: to see red, to feel something smooth. Janet's long-standing interest, and her route into Molyneux. Affordances / enactivism — Gibson's idea that we perceive the world in terms of what it lets us do, developed by Alva Noë and others. Brian adds a motivational layer: the skater doesn't just see that the handrail is skateable, they want to skate it.
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| #91 Rethinking Biological Agency & What Really Matters in Life with Charlie Munford and the Agential Biology Institute | 17 Jul 2026 | 01:32:00 | |
Charlie has been gathering some of the best scientists in the world to rethink what agency is together and form new connections outside the usual academic constraints Join Andrea in NYC this week here. Today's guest is Charlie Munford, president of the Agential Biology Institute, and he has been gathering some of the best scientists and philosophers in the world together to rethink agency. Andrea and Charlie have a personal, meandering conversation that moves from family life stories to foundational questions in biology, education, evolution, and meaning. Munford recounts growing up in Mississippi, wilderness canoe trips, Yale literature and polo, organic agriculture studies in Cuba, farming and a New Orleans wild boar sausage business, and a later personal crisis that pushed him into researching chronic disease and biological agency. He argues mainstream gene-centered biology assumes blind variation, but evidence for inherited acquired changes and directional adaptation (horizontal gene transfer, planaria pattern memory, small-RNA inheritance in worms and mammals, maternal grooming effects, genetic assimilation) suggests a missing causal layer and universal cellular learning. They discuss natural selection, Darwin and Lamarck, Barbara McClintock, a Karl Popper “active Darwinism” lecture, ABI’s testable hypotheses, and openness, creativity, and care. Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her approach here throughout. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #90 Paradox as Praxis: Johannes (Yogi) Jaeger & Marcus Neustetter on Collaborations Between Art and Science, & The ZoNE | 07 Jul 2026 | 02:14:46 | |
Andrea, Yogi and Marcus are forming Paradoxis. This is one of the conversations towards that, a Third Space episode of Love & Philosophy. Marcus and Yogi introduce each other, then talk through how their collaboration actually works: not illustration-for-hire, but a genuine co-production where a text and a drawing "wrap themselves around each other" into something neither could have made alone. From there the conversation moves through constraints and "staying alive," productive tension, performance and vulnerability, the trickster, space and context, institutions and gatekeeping, conflict and tolerance, and finally care and love. The episode also introduces the paradox project (referred to in the audio as "Paradoxis"), a shared piece of writing on treating paradox as a practice and performance, and the idea of building offline "circles of trust," a concept Andrea draws from her earlier conversation with Parker Palmer. Link to Zone talks Andrea mentions on the Zone channel with one of her favorite philosophers. And the one with Julian Gough on Egg and Rock. Topics covered
People, projects and references mentioned
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| #89 Wrestling is Part of It: Care Ethics, Motherhood, Embodiment & the Meaning in Dependency with Journalist Elissa Strauss | 28 Jun 2026 | 01:45:11 | |
Why Caring Isn't Self-Sacrifice with Elissa Strauss Elissa's Book When You Care the Navigational Approach to Mind Care of Things episode mentioned here 00:00 Trad Wife Label Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” the importance of care and 'mattering', constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions throughout. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| BONUS: Moving From Worry to Wonder with Isabela Granic of Liminal Learning (Guest Podcast: Life Itself with Jacob Kishere) | 17 Jun 2026 | 01:01:18 | |
Isabella Granic on Liminal Learning, Neither Nor, and Education for Flourishing Liminal Learning is in ther final week of welcoming participants for the upcoming UK Quest. Are you or do you know a young adult (18–25) — who’s feeling a bit lost, uncertain, in search of community, a way to explore purpose, or at a crossroads in these times? If so, our yearlong program could provide the support to transform their experience from worry into wonder. 🎡 Quests and yearlong programs starting soon 🌳 Kicks off in the Forest 🧑💻 Then moves to the online Hub The weeklong wilderness Quest is the starting point of Liminal Learning — a yearlong journey supporting young people to find direction, meaning, and confidence in work, study, and life. We focus on 3 core components the Quest, the Hub (our online community and continuation) and the Heist (our hybrid project based real-world experiment) ✨ We have a small number of scholarship places still available, supported by our non-profit mission. 👉 Quest details & applications here: https://liminal-learning.com/upcoming-quests What’s Liminal Learning? It begins with a weeklong retreat in nature, then continues with a year of learning, mentoring, and community — both online and in person. In a supportive cohort with peers and guides, participants explore purpose, values, and how they want to meet the world. 👉 Full program overview: https://liminal-learning.com/program Life itself (https://lifeitself.org/)Jacob Kishere www.jacobkishere.com or www.theresonantman.com Harvard series videos starting with IG and the Neither Nor paper Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #88 How Life Works Beyond Genes: the New Biology of Meaning with scientist and author Philip Ball | 02 Jun 2026 | 01:23:56 | |
Beyond Genes, Toward Meaning & Care, But Rigorously Andrea Hiott hosts British science writer Philip Ball (former Nature editor; trained chemist and physicist) to discuss his book How Life Works and why the popular idea “it’s all in the genes” is untenable. Ball argues biology is shifting beyond mechanistic, bottom-up “blueprint” metaphors toward a view of organisms as open, adaptive informational systems with complex genotype–phenotype relations, constant interaction across levels (genes to ecosystems), and robust behavior emerging from “committee-like” molecular collectives. They discuss why biology has avoided purpose, teleology, and meaning, yet living systems make contextual value judgments and goal-directed decisions, with continuity from cells to human minds and emotions, emphasizing embodiment and symbiosis. Ball links these themes to his prostate cancer diagnosis while finishing the book, reflecting on mortality, persistence of patterns and information through art and writing, and the open-endedness of life and evolution, ending with love as a real evolved capacity. 00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro 00:35 Why Biology Is Shifting 02:09 Cancer, Meaning, and Patterns 04:37 Challenging Gene Determinism 11:03 Beyond the Machine Metaphor 17:52 Purpose and Teleology in Life 23:58 Messiness and Higher-Level Causation 31:54 Meaning Making in Cells 38:10 Embodiment and the Mind-Body Link 41:20 Embodied Minds 42:23 Nested Bodies and Meaning 43:52 Molecular Caring and Committees 45:02 Physics of Collectivity 47:19 Universality From Traffic to Cells 51:11 Leaky Layers in Living Systems 53:20 Beyond E. coli to Elephants 55:49 Caring as a New Metaphor 57:44 Symbiosis Parasites and Affordances 01:03:23 Brains Agency and Emotions 01:08:10 Mortality and Whirlpools of Meaning 01:15:42 Uniqueness Open-Ended Evolution 01:18:25 Love as Evolutionary Reality Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” the importance of care and 'mattering', constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions throughout. TRANSCRIPT Andrea Hiott: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Love and Philosophy. This is Andrea Hiott, and I’m glad you’re here. Today is a really special conversation, which I had quite some months ago, back in February, with a writer who is one of my favorites, Philip Ball. He is a British science writer. He used to be the editor at Nature for over 20 years. He’s trained as both a chemist and a physicist, and he’s written a lot of really good books. Critical Mass was a prize-winning book, and there’s also H2O, The Music Instinct, and the one we’re talking about here, How Life Works. Let me tell you a little bit about this book. It comes at a moment when I think biology is really shifting. It’s a shift that’s been going on for a while, but it’s at an important moment now where this mechanistic gene-first story we’ve been telling — the one that says you are your genes, you are your DNA, the selfish gene, that whole idea — is really changing a lot. The idea of the body as a machine assembled from the bottom up, that story is coming apart. But it’s interesting because we don’t want to just flip to the opposite, to reject all that came before. That’s what this book is doing that’s so interesting, and also this conversation. I think you’ll hear it. We’re trying to hold a certain tension because even though that story is coming apart, it’s not that everything is wrong about it. The hope is not to flip into the opposite, but rather to hold the tension and to really open up a new space about how we actually think about what life is and what we are. We have more ways to communicate and more ways to study this that can help us get more rigorous even as we also open up. So that’s what we’re trying to do in this conversation. It gets a little bit messy — that’s a word I’m always using, but in a good way — because we’re trying to talk about a lot of very hard things here, and we’re also trying to talk about them in a way that isn’t the usual way. You’ll hear that Philip is very articulate about this. He’s even better in the book, so I really highly recommend it. He’s also written some very beautiful essays, and one of them, which is in Nautilus, is about how at the end of writing this book he got diagnosed with cancer. We get to that by the end of this conversation because he’s come through well. He had surgery. All is good. It’s all gone. But there was a time when it was very tense for him, and he was writing this book about life, so can you imagine? He was really having these questions pressed on him directly as he had been thinking about life and trying to understand what it was. There’s something very moving about that. What he came to through this was that we are made of this material that’s changing all the time, but what persists are these patterns that come through us, or are in the world with us, or that we create and give to the world that then go on without us. It’s not that they’re floating around in the air. It’s that I can read this book again that he wrote, and there’s an imprint to the book that changes me, and that will continue even in 100 years when people read the book. It’s the same with music. It’s the same with everything we create and do. But it’s also the same with conversations that you just have with one another, because we change each other as we do that, and those patterns continue on in further conversations that those people have. So we end up in a place a little bit like that, and it’s very interesting that that can come from a very scientific conversation and a very scientific book. One thing about Philip is he’s really good at holding that. In the book, he talks about meaning, which is not a word you see often in a very scholarly biological book, but he does it with real rigor and grace, and I think that is such a gift at this moment. I’m very happy to bring you this conversation and to share his work with you. I’m really grateful that he spent some time with me. Thanks for being here. I hope this conversation gives you something that helps you carry on these patterns that connect in some way that’s meaningful for you today.
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| #87 the Money Koan: towards a new philosophy of curren(t)cy and care with investor Jenna Nicholas | 21 May 2026 | 01:08:16 | |
Andrea Hiott in conversation with investor Jenna Nicholas. Jenna discusses her book The Enlightened Bottom Line and how spirituality, love, and purpose can inform investing and business rather than oppose them. She traces formative experiences from ages 11–14 in a Swiss “Transformation for Peace” program and speaking at Commonwealth Day in Westminster Abbey, including meeting Desmond Tutu, to the confidence instilled by her mother and grandmother, faith, and a lifelong practice of hosting “Saturdays at Jen’s” discussion groups. After moving from London to Stanford, she was inspired by social entrepreneurs, worked on socially responsible investing in China with mentor Wayne Silby (Calvert Funds), and later organized experiences and interviews exploring profit–purpose paradoxes. She describes practices like symbolic objects to bridge divides, dreams-based decision-making in the Amazon, and a HEAL framework (Hope, Empathy, Abundance, Legacy), emphasizing pauses, stewardship, seven-generation thinking, and money as “currency” valuable when in motion. Find Jenna’s book The Enlightened Bottom Line here. Parker Palmer conversation with Andrea is here Jacob Needleman conversation with Andrea is here. 00:00 Welcome and Book Setup 00:25 Teen Years and Abbey Speech 02:25 Tutu High Five and Lasting Joy 04:01 the Women Who Raised Her 06:48 Holding Paradox in Community 08:56 From Stanford to Impact Investing 11:40 Choosing Stanford by Fate 14:43 Wayne Silby and Legacy Shift 17:18 Bhutan and Business of Happiness 19:24 Enoughness and Inner Compass 22:52 Saturdays at Jens Conversations 25:14 Fierce Love in Organizations 27:25 Creating Listening Spaces 28:03 Building Impact Experience 28:40 Coal Meets Solar Values 30:13 Redefining Money Capital 34:00 Heal Framework Questions 35:37 Hope Empathy Abundance 37:16 Playful Abundance Wand 40:04 Amazon Dream Circles 43:03 Death Joy Legacy 46:31 Stewardship Seven Generations 49:02 Reflection Questions Pauses 52:40 Grandmother Loving Kindness 55:37 Honoring Stories Love 57:15 Podcast Farewell The Enlightened Bottom Line by Jenna Nicholas Jenna’s Substack is here. Jenna on LinkedIn Books discussed in addition to the Enlightened Bottom Line: InnSaei: the Icelandic Art of Intuition by Hrund Gunnsteinsdottir The Soul of Money by Lynne Twist Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #86 A.A. Kostas and his Way Markers (including Chris McCandless, C.S. Lewis, Robert Pirsig, Thomas Merton, D.T. Suzuki, & Christian mystics) | 07 May 2026 | 01:38:29 | |
What Marks our Movement through life? Andrea Hiott interviews A.A. Kostas, a Singapore-based lawyer and writer who runs the Substack Way Markers, blending poetry, fiction, and essays. They discuss how moving through different places shaped his writing and his interest in avoiding simplistic binaries through discernment—first identifying what kind of decision is in front of you—using hiking metaphors of many paths versus a narrow ridge. Alex cites Into the Wild as a cautionary way marker about seeking truth without rejecting human connection, and describes a Cradle Mountain hike where his wife had to find her own route. They explore how technology reinforces binary thinking, why poetry and music hold meanings beneath prose, and the value of humility from engaging Western and Eastern traditions (including Merton and Suzuki). They examine care as uncomfortable attention, the importance of embodied presence, and Alex’s experience of fatherhood as immediate responsibility and obligation where love grows. See the Substack for links to the books mentioned. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #85 Punk, Tech & Care: B. Scot Rousse on Being Human in the Age AI and Ambassadors of Possibility (Dreyfus, Flores, Heidegger, Kierkegaard) | 27 Apr 2026 | 01:48:59 | |
B. Scot Rousse (“B”)'s substack, "Without Why," focuses on what it means to be alive in an age of intelligent machines. He is philosopher in residence at Topos Institute and visiting scholar in Philosophy at Berkeley. He also drums in 3 punk bands. To support us, please sign up for the newsletter or Give any amount. Andrea Hiott has a conversation with philosopher B. Scot Rousse (“B”). B is an Oakland-based, Berkeley-affiliated Heidegger and phenomenology scholar focused on AI’s effects on our capacities to care. He is also a Topos Institute affiliate and a punk drummer. Andrea and B discuss Heidegger’s care as living in “meaningful differences,” embodied affordances, moods, and existential orientation. They explore how AI risks compulsive optimization and an overly narrow picture of the role of language in human life. B argues that technologies design ways of being human, urges users and designers to ask “for the sake of what,” articulates punk’s embodied, communal, joyful “controlled chaos” as an antidote to technological nihilism, and celebrates love and care in their visceral, pluralistic, and risky uncontrollability. Along the way, B traces a path from growing up Hare Krishna in Florida, to an encounter with a philosophy teacher who encouraged his transfer to UC Berkeley where he came under the mentorship of Hubert Dreyfus, whose teaching and critiques of symbolic AI shaped B’s work. B also shares about his work with philosopher-entrepreneur Fernando Flores (thanks to an introduction by Dreyfus), who applies philosophy to organizational “networks of conversations” that coordinate commitments and care for customer concerns, drawing on his experience in Chilean political history and ontological reinterpretation of entrepreneurship. In all of these experiences, B focuses on an abiding and urgent question: How do we protect our capacity to care in an age of optimization? How can you create, in your life, your version of the worldly joy and shared meaning of being in a punk band? B’s substack is Without Why. He currently drums in the bands Realistic, Vexxyl, and Wildfire. Here is the piece on Hubert Drefyus that Andrea mentions. Subscribe to B’s YouTube channel here. Support the Hubert Dreyfus Audio Archive Project here. Share Subscribe now 00:00 Welcome and Care Question Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” the importance of care and 'mattering', constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions throughout. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #84 There is No Average Individual: The Great Psychology Delusion with Marek McGann | 17 Apr 2026 | 01:07:38 | |
The Great Psychology Delusion: Why the Mean Misleads and Pluralism Matters This is an academic psychology-focused episode with lecturer Marek McGann, whose work spans enactive cognitive science, embodiment, politics, feminist philosophy, and STS. Andrea and Marek discuss his co-authored book The Great Psychology Delusion with Craig Speelman. McGann explains why “delusion” fits psychology’s persistence in treating long-critiqued assumptions as valid, especially the aggregation delusion: averaging group data and applying it to individuals despite human non-interchangeability and change over time, linked to the ergodic assumption and ergodic theorem conditions rarely met in human behavior. They discuss how averaging can create misleading “laws” (e.g., power law of learning), the research–practice gap in clinical work, psychology’s history and method-driven identity, and the need for disciplined, pluralistic, scale-aware science that better integrates perspectives and practitioner expertise. Marek McGann has been a lecturer in the Department of Psychology since 2005. His principal research is theoretical work on the enactive approach to cognitive science, which examines the mind more as something we do rather than something we have. This is also related to ecological approaches to psychology, which explore how behaviour and mental life can be examined by looking at what your head is in, rather than what is in your head. He also has a related interest in critical considerations of theory and scientific practice in psychology more broadly. Marek co-convenes the ENSO Seminars, a series of online seminars with researchers from enactive and ecological cognitive science. Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” the importance of care and 'mattering', constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions throughout. The paper Andrea mentions: Facing Life Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| BONUS Performance of your life: Is acting inherent to being human? Sophie Fiennes, Declan Donnellan, Nick Ormerod, Macbeth | 10 Apr 2026 | 00:27:22 | |
This is an impromptu bonus episode previewing the NYC premiere of Sophie Fiennes’s documentary film Acting, which follows the celebrated theatre company Cheek by Jowl through their production of Macbeth. Andrea is speaking with her this week in NYC. Andrea introduces the ideas of director Declan Donnellan, whose book The Actor in the Space (2024) helps us get some insight into the film. Subjects: the philosophy of performance to spatial cognition, presence, and what it means to be truly alive on stage — or anywhere. Perhaps this is a good moment to revisit the themes of Macbeth. Come Saturday April 11th at 6:45pm for the film and Q &A with Sophie Fiennes (and Andrea): ️tickets at https://quadcinema.com/film/acting/ Declan Donnellan: "Human beings are actors. It is hardwired into our DNA — from toddlers playing make-believe to old-age pensioners sharing jokes in the pub. We need to perform. It’s an essential part of being human. Acting starts early. We use it to develop our relationship with our mothers. We watch her and wonder, mirror her smiling, repeat the sounds she makes. We learn things by performing for her, and she performs for us. Does that mean we are lying to each other? Of course not. Performance is woven into the fabric of our lives. It’s as natural and important to us as breathing. Performance is not merely a habit that humans keep repeating across millennia, languages and cultures. It is more fundamental than that. Performance is what it is to be human. It is the operating system for life." The episode previews a bonus conversation with filmmaker Sophie Fiennes ahead of a screening of her film "Acting," about the London theater company Cheek by Jowl, co-founded by director Declan Donnellan and designer Nick Ormerod. Andrea introduces Donnellan’s ideas from his books "The Actor and the Target" and "The Actor in the Space," emphasizing that performance is fundamental to being human and that acting depends on creating the conditions—especially the space and context—where a character can exist and feel alive, rather than forcing meaning or emotion. The script contrasts older, space-oriented filmmaking with faster kinetic editing, highlights the importance of giving audiences room for their own cognition, and includes clips from Macbeth rehearsal discussing dread, avoidance, and the challenge of convincing the audience. It ends with details about attending the New York screening and future posting of a longer conversation. All links to books and notes are here. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #83 Wisdom Gates and Serious Play: Paradox, Care and Discovery with Puzzle-Maker Jasen Robillard | 07 Apr 2026 | 01:21:11 | |
Holding Paradox Through Serious Play: Can serious play be a portal to wisdom? This is an episode about puzzles and care. Andrea has a conversation with puzzle maker Jason Robillard (StumpCraft) about how puzzles cultivate new ways of being and seeing, holding paradox by repeatedly joining opposites only to realize they were never quite opposites but mirror-like pieces of a coherent whole. Robillard describes his wooden, laser-cut puzzles built from Canadian fine art, with uniquely drawn organic pieces, symbolic elements, sensory “shock,” and sometimes multiple valid placements that challenge assumptions of a single solution. He connects puzzling to embodied experience, attention, OODA loops, cognitive biases, and navigating complexity through “alternating base camps” and Goldilocks destabilization, the metamodern idea of 'serious play', relating this to career upheavals and identity change. The conversation emphasizes care as community glue and highlights values embedded in his work—curiosity, creativity, integrity, and generosity—plus a resonance with David Whyte’s poem “Start Close In.” StumpCraft Amazing Instagram Photos and Videos of Games Jasen’s writings: Releasing the Muse Jasen on LinkedIn Metamodern influences: Serious Play OODA loop (observe, orient, decide, act) Jasen Robillard was always a closet creative who long denied the creative muses, focusing instead on a “secure” engineering career until it dried up in 2017. As is often the case, necessity proved to be the mother of invention… In 2016, Jasen started designing and prototyping his whimsical puzzles which were inspired by other wooden laser-cut puzzles he had enjoyed years earlier. He noted a lack of wooden puzzle availability in Canada, as well as a severe lack of deliberate focus on Canadian fine art. After a year of playful prototyping and a clear end to his engineering-focused career, Jasen decided to launch StumpCraft formally in 2017. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #82 Philosophy of the Heart with Nobel Peace Prize Nominee Scilla Elworthy | 27 Mar 2026 | 00:55:26 | |
Facing Reality with Clear Eyes but without Desperation: Scilla Elworthy on Listening with the Heart to Transform Conflict "Triple nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for her work with Oxford Research Group to develop effective dialogue between nuclear weapons policy-makers worldwide and their critics from 1983-2003. Founded Peace Direct in 2002, awarded the Niwano Peace Prize in 2003, the Luxembourg Peace Prize in 2020, the GOI Peace Award in 2023. Founded The Business Plan for Peace based on her latest books - The Business Plan for Peace: Building a World Without War (2017), The Mighty Heart: how to transform conflict (2020), and The Mighty Heart in Action (2022)." Kyla Scanlon's post mentioned here 00:00 Why We Still Kill Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #81 Changing Minds, Metaphysics, and a Life in Analytic Philosophy with Janet Levin of USC | 18 Mar 2026 | 02:03:00 | |
Janet Levin on Physicalism, Zombies, and Changing Minds The Road Taken APA Talk Time Stamps: Longer Show Notes and PDF of APA talk Janet Levin is Professor Emerita of Philosophy at the University of Southern California, where she was a longtime faculty member in the School of Philosophy. Her research focuses on epistemology, philosophy of mind, and philosophy of psychology. She earned her Ph.D. in philosophy from MIT and her B.A. from the University of Chicago. Much of her work engages with one of the hardest problems in philosophy: how to account for the subjective, felt quality of conscious experience within a broadly physicalist framework. She has also written the entry on functionalism for the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy — the view that what makes something a mental state depends not on its physical makeup, but on the functional role it plays in a larger system. Levin holds that our feelings and experiences are nothing over and above physical processes in the body, primarily the brain and central nervous system. In her 2022 book The Metaphysics of Mind, published by Cambridge University Press, Levin surveys the major contemporary theories of mind — including dualism, type-identity theory, role functionalism, Russellian monism, and eliminativism — assessing the strengths and weaknesses of each. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| Focusing on Care: Field Notes from Love and Philosophy | 16 Mar 2026 | 00:09:10 | |
Love and Philosophy Beyond Dichotomy: Way Making, Care, and a New Season Give here: https://loveandphilosophy.com/giving-page Here is a link to the free Love & Philosophy Field Guide which comes to your email: https://making-ways.kit.com/01025445f6 or find it here: https://lovephilosophy.substack.com/p/focusing-on-care-field-notes-and
Field Notes at https://making-ways.kit.com/01025445f6 Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| Curiosity as a Practice and the Capacity to Connect with philosopher Perry Zurn (from the archive) | 07 Mar 2026 | 00:57:23 | |
From the archive. Andrea introduces an archive episode of Love and Philosophy featuring Perry Zurn, provost and associate professor of philosophy at American University about the book Curious Minds, coauthored with Dani Bassett. The intro previews an upcoming season launch with Janet Levin. In the following conversation, Perry links curiosity to desire and love, arguing love can guide curiosity away from appropriative or objectifying inquiry. Zurn reframes curiosity not as an individual desire to fill information gaps but as a social practice and a “capacity to connect,” drawing on network science, complexity, and ecological aesthetics through the idea of “edge work.” Andrea and Perry discuss diverse styles of curiosity (busy body, hunter, dancer), curiosity’s role in shifting knowledge networks and methods, interdisciplinary resistance, and how breaking “edges” or “cracks” can be both destructive and creative, relating curiosity to hope and to more-than-human ecologies. Perry also describes the book’s artwork by Poonam Mistry and the dedication to children who ask whether things must be this way. Curious Minds: Buy the book 00:00 Archive Season Preview Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| Love, Life and Logic: Another Dialectic with Hegelian scholar Karen Ng (from the archive) | 17 Feb 2026 | 01:15:19 | |
From the archive. First aired in Jan of 2025. A conversation about Hegel. Andrea talks with Karen Ng, Associate Professor of Philosophy at Vanderbilt University. The discussion delves into Hegel's ideas on contradiction, self-consciousness, life, and love, revealing how these notions are intricately intertwined in his work. Karen Ng brings forward her insights from her award-winning book 'Hegel's Concept of Life,' highlighting the radical nature of Hegel's thought and its relevance in modern contexts. Together, they explore deeply challenging philosophical concepts, making connections to contemporary issues in philosophy, environmental science, and cognitive theory. Join us as we navigate through Hegel’s complex ideas and uncover their enduring significance. Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” the importance of care and 'mattering', constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions throughout. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| What Relates Creates with life & computer scientist Richard Watson (from the archive) | 03 Feb 2026 | 01:21:47 | |
Love, Science, and the Dynamics of Change: From the Archive Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| Trust, Games and Sculpting Agency with C. Thi Nguyen (new edit from the archive) | 23 Jan 2026 | 01:06:13 | |
Trust, Agency, and the Art of Games with C. Thi Nguyen Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #80 Pure Consciousness with analytic philosopher Thomas Metzinger | 01 Jan 2026 | 01:42:43 | |
AI, Suffering, Remedy and Love as the voluntary suspension of habitual responses into awareness: This episode is with philosopher and cognitive scientist Thomas Metzinger, a Professor Emeritus at Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz and a member of the German National Academy Leopoldina. He has worked mainly in philosophy of mind, cognitive science, and applied ethics, particularly focusing on neurotechnology, virtual reality, and artificial intelligence. The conversation explores a wide range of topics including the critical intersection of philosophy, neuroscience, meditation, and artificial intelligence. Metzinger shares his skepticism about separating deep philosophical inquiries from meditation and psychedelics, and the dialogue touches upon the impact of AI on human cognition, the concept of suffering in both humans and machines, and the responsibility of philosophers in an age of epistemic crisis. The discussion underscores the need for a balanced and multifaceted approach to understanding consciousness and suggests that new paradigms may emerge from current technological and philosophical shifts. This episode aims to foster an expansive and hopeful outlook as we move into the new year. The idea of pure consciousness as used in phenomenology via Husserl is to be discussed later. phenomenology of 'pure' consciousness Link to Elephant and the Blind full book New book Bewusstseinkultur MPE discussion mentioned in Intro Philosophy Babble conversations Thomas Metzinger (*1958 in Frankfurt am Main, Germany) was Full Professor of Theoretical Philosophy at the Johannes Gutenberg-Universität Mainz until 2019. He is past president of the German Cognitive Science Society (2005-2007) and of the Association for the Scientific Study of Consciousness (2009-2011). As of 2011, he is an Adjunct Fellow at the Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies, a co-founder of the German Effective Altruism Foundation... Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” the importance of care and 'mattering', constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions throughout. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #79 Loving to Know and Subsidiary Focal Integration with Esther Lightcap Meek | 23 Dec 2025 | 01:34:35 | |
with philosopher Esther Lightcap Meek, Professor of Philosophy emerita at Geneva College, in Western Pennsylvania exploring from-to fractals, Michael Polanyi, Meek's Indeterminate Future Manifestations, the difference between information and knowledge, epistemological therapy... and all with some laughter and good cheer Happy holidays! These conversations are part of research: to skip the research ramble, go to 26:30. This episode explores the intricate relationships between knowledge, information, reality, and love with guest Esther Lightcap Meek. Building on the ideas of Michael Polanyi, Esther and Andrea delve into the concept of ‘subsidiary focal integration’ and its implications for how we understand reality. The conversation addresses the limitations of viewing knowledge merely as information, the importance of bodily cognition, and how love and communion with the real are fundamental to genuine knowing. It shows how philosophy can be understood as therapeutic, a dynamic process that connects us deeply with ourselves, each other, and the world. 00:00 Introduction to the Concept of Reality and Information 01:46 The Role of Subsidiary Focal Integration 03:36 Exploring Covenant Epistemology 04:54 Understanding Bodily Cognition 06:44 Introducing Esther Lightcap Meek 08:50 The Journey of a Philosopher 10:46 The Importance of Subsidiary Focal Integration 13:02 Practical Applications and Everyday Philosophy 16:40 The Role of Philosophy in Real Life 26:31 A Conversation with Esther Lightcap Meek 49:34 Integrative Knowledge and Liberation 50:25 Epistemological Therapy and Embodied Cognition 52:37 The Role of Subsidiary Focal Integration 54:58 Daisy of Dichotomies and Modernity 57:54 The Interpersonal Nature of Knowledge 01:11:20 Covenant Epistemology in Education 01:18:35 AI, Tools, and the Real 01:29:14 The Role of Love in Knowing A professional philosopher, author and speaker, Esther offers her own distinctive, down-to-earth, approach to the philosophical matters that ground and permeate our lives: humanness, meaning, reality, knowing.The book Andrea and Esther discuss here is Loving to Know. Link here to Esther’s work and books: https://www.estherlightcapmeek.com Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| Hippocampus Love: Action at a Distance and the bridge of Memory, Part 4 with Lynn Nadel BONUS | 14 Dec 2025 | 01:40:22 | |
Maybe memory is a way we communicate with ourselves and the world at various layers, a bridging experience of what we call time and space. In this episode, Andrea Hiott and Lynn Nadel continue their ongoing talks about memory. This time they explore the intricate workings of the hippocampus, focusing on its role in bridging spatial and temporal gaps. They delve into how memory, navigation, and cognitive maps are interconnected, challenging traditional views and opening up discussions on the dynamic nature of memory. Lynn shares insights from this paper, discusses how past research has evolved, touching upon philosophical perspectives from Kant and modern neuroscience findings. The conversation also briefly touches on the broader implications, including how understanding the hippocampus might extend to broader cognitive functions and societal interactions. There’s an in-depth ‘research ramble’ from Andrea at the beginning for those interested in the wider themes of this whole project, but you can also skip past that and go to the main conversation if you wish. The main paper discussed here is The Hippocampal Formation and Action at a Distance Lynn Nadel is an American psychologist who is the Regents’ Professor of psychology at the University of Arizona. Nadel specializes in memory, and has investigated the role of the hippocampus in memory formation. Together with John O’Keefe, he coauthored the influential 1978 book The Hippocampus as a Cognitive Map.00:00 Introduction to Hippocampal Function 02:07 The Role of Memory and Space 11:38 Philosophical Insights on Space and Time 15:50 Quantum Entanglement and Memory 28:48 Hippocampus as a Cognitive Map 43:43 Encouragement and Introduction to Lynn Nadel 44:30 Discussing the Paper: The Hippocampal Formation and Action at a Distance 44:55 Linking Time and Space: The Role of the Hippocampus 47:21 Memory and Cognitive Maps 49:59 The Evolution of Cognitive Map Theory 51:34 Intertwining Memory and Navigation 01:04:30 Philosophical Perspectives on Space and Time 01:09:37 Innate Structures and Evolutionary Adaptations 01:16:08 Plant Cognition and Tropisms 01:16:59 The Importance of Memory 01:17:39 Cognitive Maps in Animals 01:17:57 Symposium and Research Updates 01:19:08 Locomotion and Cognitive Needs 01:20:54 Internal Models and Memory 01:23:27 Temporal Contiguity vs. Contingency 01:29:26 Dynamics of Memory 01:35:11 Concluding Thoughts and Future Plans 01:36:34 Hippocampus and Social Interactions Previous conversations with Lynn and Andrea The Hippocampal Formation and Action at a Distance Please rate and review with love. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #78 Holding Love & Power (Without Losing Either) with policy advisor Jamie Bristow | 07 Dec 2025 | 01:28:15 | |
Hey everybody. This podcast is about seemingly impossible combinations and this one is the doozy of love and power. It’s about the politics of care. Or love in politics. Can you hold those words at once? Can we? We might be surprised by ourselves. Jamie Bristow has spent the last fifteen years bringing mindfulness and contemplative practices into the British Parliament, the UN, and halls of power around the world. And now he’s decided love is the only answer. But what happens when you bring the language of love into spaces where we typically speak only of power via politics?
Jamie is a policy advisor working at the intersection of inner & outer transformation, resilience and sustainability *Also the episode with Fotis and Johannes that also touches on themes of metamodernism
Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #77 Evolving Language by Embracing Paradox with Lisa Maroski | 30 Nov 2025 | 01:03:30 | |
This episode, hosted by philosopher Andrea Hiott, explores the concept of embracing paradox with Lisa Maroski, author of 'Embracing Paradox, Evolving Language.' The discussion delves into how our language separates concepts, leading to binary thinking, and how questioning and reexamining these linguistic habits can foster a deeper understanding of interconnectedness. Using the metaphor of the Mobius Strip, Lisa explains the importance of holding multiple truths simultaneously and the potential for transforming our worldview. They touch on various topics, including the influence of language on culture, the need for a new way of thinking to address global crises, and the role of love and trust in fostering connection. The conversation encourages listeners to see beyond binary choices and embrace a more integrated, kaleidoscopic approach to understanding and caring for the world.
L.E. (Lisa) Maroski didn’t intend to become an editor, it just so happened that she was good at helping people say what they really wanted to say, not what they wrote. After years of doing that for others, she turned her trade on herself, publishing a novel, The One That Is Both, in 2006 and Embracing Paradox, Evolving Language in 2024. Both books derive from a deep desire for language to be able to “do more.” A third book that continues this theme is in development. Having studied philosophy and psychology but working in medical editing and writing, she considers herself a generalist, one who likes to make connections between ideas. An avid dancer, she balances mind with motion, lofty thoughts with high kicks. You might find her dancing tango somewhere… Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #76 The Care of Things: Philosophy of Maintenance & Making Things Last with Jérome Denis and David Pontille | 23 Nov 2025 | 01:23:45 | |
Rethinking Everyday Care with Jérome Denis and David Pontille The book is available in English and French from all major booksellers: 00:00 Introduction to Maintenance and Care John Oliver Infrastructure Clip Jérome Denis is Director of the Centre de sociologie de l'innovation at Mines Paris-PSL. David Pontille is Director of Research at Centre national de la recherche scientifique (CNRS) in Paris. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #75 Hyperscanning & Human Connection: Synchronization and the Third Brain with Biologist Nicolás Hinrichs | 11 Nov 2025 | 01:10:42 | |
Neuroscience, Geometric Hyperscanning, and Real Time Relation Andrea welcomes Nicolás to discuss the cutting-edge neuroscience technique of hyperscanning, which records brain activity from two or more individuals simultaneously during social interactions. They dive into how hyperscanning reveals brain synchronization reflecting shared attention, empathy, and effective communication. The conversation highlights the broader applications, from studying parent-child bonding and social disorders to advancing mental health interventions. The discussion also touches on integrating philosophical insights to better understand social interactions, emphasizing the importance of holding scientific paradoxes and envisioning a more holistic approach to studying human connection. Watch Nicolás Hinrich's Active Inference Institute recorded talk here Geometric Hyperscanning of Affect under Active Inference On a Geometry of Interbrain Networks Read more about this on Substack 00:00 Welcome to Love and Philosophy Give in any amount here to support this Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| Moving Beyond Binaries in Education: Andrea Hiott in Conversation with Tim Logan on Future Learning Design | 31 Oct 2025 | 00:54:54 | |
Moving Beyond Binaries in Education - A Conversation with Tim Logan Tim Logan is an education leader, connector and facilitator. Tim moves projects from innovative learning design to effectively executing ideas on the ground, swiftly. Bringing his extensive learnings and insights from a global career in youth work, teaching, school leadership and consultancy, Tim has worked with prominent clients around the world to develop new and innovative approaches to learning, well-being and youth engagement. He has most recently worked with International Baccalaureate, Nordic Bildung and Nora Bateson’s team at International Bateson Institute. Tim is also host/producer of the Future Learning Design podcast. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #74 the Dynamics of Holding and Sharing: Authenticity, Maps, Masks & Voicecraft with Tim Adalin | 23 Oct 2025 | 02:23:03 | |
Buy L&P a Coffee or Give Directly Navigating the Depths of Voice, Authenticity, and Love with Tim Adalin Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| The Neural Representation Debate & Cognitive Maps with Lynn Nadel (Hippocampus Bonus) | 14 Oct 2025 | 00:59:28 | |
Decoding the Brain: Representation and Relational Memory in Cognitive Neuroscience This episode of 'Love and Philosophy Beyond Dichotomy,' hosted by Andrea Hiott, features a deep dive with Lynn Nadel into the complexities of representation in the brain. The discussion explores how thoughts and memories are formed and represented, beginning with a child's understanding and extending to advanced theories in neuroscience. Central themes include population coding, the relational nature of brain functions, and the embodied cognition approach. They also touch on historical perspectives from key figures like Tolman and Eichenbaum, the idea of cognitive maps in the hippocampus, and the role of pre-wiring and experience in shaping brain functions. The episode highlights ongoing debates and innovations in understanding cognitive processes and how the brain models reality. Full conversations (1-5) with Andrea and Lynn 00:00 Introduction to Thought and Representation Lynn is in Trondheim during this discussion attending the Kavli Prize week. This is the third conversation with Andrea and Lynn. In this (talk three) Andrea & Lynn discuss how we have thoughts and memories and what this means a la representation. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #73 Life Together on the Möbius Strip with author, educator and activist Parker Palmer | 03 Oct 2025 | 01:19:15 | |
Exploring Life's Paradoxes In this deeply reflective episode of 'Love and Philosophy,' philosopher host Andrea Hiott converses with Parker Palmer, the founder of the Center for Courage and Renewal, about the profound truths of life. They discuss the struggles of depression, the essence of living a life of paradox, and the significance of integrating soul with role. Palmer also shares transformative insights on the nature of love, community, and solitude, and reads a poignant poem that captures the essence of enduring life's hardships. Join us for a heartfelt conversation that explores the complexities and mysteries of human existence. Center for Courage and Renewal Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” the importance of care and 'mattering', constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions throughout. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #72 Rethinking Cognition: Posthumanism to Planetary Ecology with Professor Katherine Hayles | 23 Sep 2025 | 01:21:28 | |
A poetic conversation at the intersection of literature, science, and technology with Katherine Hayles, a distinguished research professor at the University of California, Los Angeles. Hayles discusses her ideas from her books 'How We Became Posthuman' and 'Bacteria to AI,' focusing on the need to rethink cognition and decouple it from consciousness. She describes the concept of non-conscious cognition and emphasizes the importance of understanding the integrated cognitive framework, which includes biological organisms, synthetic intelligences, and their symbiotic relationships with humans. The discussion extends to planetary ecology, the risks and potentials of advancing AI, and the overarching need for humanity’s care for the planet and each other. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #71 Dialectics, Democracy & the Phenomenology of Double Consciousness with Lucius Outlaw Jr. | 14 Sep 2025 | 01:55:26 | |
This episode features esteemed philosopher Lucius Outlaw, professor emeritus of Vanderbilt University. In this thought-provoking conversation, Outlaw shares his remarkable journey from growing up in segregated Mississippi to becoming a respected philosophy professor, closely acquainted with influential figures like Martin Luther King Jr. and Eric Fromm. The discussion weaves through topics like double consciousness, agape love, the philosophy of Hegel, and the transformational power of language. Outlaw also reflects on how shared experiences, dialogue, and love can create a more inclusive, understanding world. Tune in to explore how philosophical insights can shape and nurture community and personal growth. Lucius with Angela Davis: https://swarthmorephoenix.com/2024/12/05/angela-davis-in-conversation-with-lucius-outlaw-a-critical-conversation-on-contemporary-crises/ Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #70 Fractal Rubik's Cube & the Big Machine with futurist polymath Michael Garfield | 07 Sep 2025 | 01:50:18 | |
Michael Garfield is a futurist polymath who has worked everywhere from the KU Natural History Museum to the Sante Fe Institute to Mozilla to the Long Now. He’s currently with the AI Capabilities and Alignment Consensus Project. Oh, and he also has twenty years experience as an artist and musician. This conversation is a bit of a song exploder, looking into one of Michael’s songs (the Big Machine) through the kaleidoscope of his other more academic interests. Summary: A deep, multifaceted conversation with Michael Garfield, known for his contributions to the Complexity podcast at the Santa Fe Institute, Future Fossils, and Humans on the Loop. This discussion with Andrea & Michael traverses various terrains including Michael’s journey from paleontology to music, his insights on complexity science, and the intriguing idea of the 'Fractal Rubik's Cube.' The entire conversation song explodes the themes behind Michael's song 'Big Machine,' tackling how love, mysticism, and science intersect in our complex world. Throughout, Michael shares his nuanced understanding of information, attention, and what it means to explore beyond traditional academic and scientific boundaries. Listen to the song Big Machine Love and Philosophy Newsletter
Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #69 The philosophy of Bioregionalism with Félix de Rosen | 25 Aug 2025 | 01:02:26 | |
A first person exploration of the philosophy of bioregionalism, inspired by the complexity science of Donnella Meadow, with Felix de Rosen, a landscape architect and gardener. Felix shares his fascinating journey from studying political science at Harvard to his passion for the natural world and Bioregionalism. Andrea and Felix explore the philosophy of organizing human societies around naturally defined areas, discussing complex systems and the importance of finding community. This conversation is an exploration of the intersections of ecology, culture, and personal growth through Felix's experiences and insights on creating sustainable and meaningful connections with the land and each other. 00:00 Introduction to Bioregionalism 00:43 Félix de Rosen's Background and Journey 01:30 Complex Systems and Community 02:53 Felix's Personal Reflections 05:21 The Importance of Place and People 21:34 Discovering Landscape Architecture 26:37 Understanding Bio Regionalism 30:11 Exploring Systems Thinking and Worldview 31:38 The Intersection of Gardens and Worldviews 36:06 Frustrations and Realizations in Landscape Architecture 39:45 The Importance of Systems Thinking 42:54 Bio Regionalism and Community Building 48:01 Bridging Political Divides through Bio Regionalism 52:25 International Bio Regional Projects 54:37 The Role of Love and Connection to Earth 01:00:30 Agency Deficit Disorder and Hope for the Future 01:01:28 Conclusion and Ways to Connect Links: Polycultura: Planetary Design and Communication A talk from Felix at the Harvard commencement Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #68: Loving, Knowing and Participatory Sense-making with philosopher Hanne De Jaegher | 21 Aug 2025 | 01:36:04 | |
4e philosopher of cognitive science Hanne De Jaegher discusses the profound relationship between loving and knowing as intertwined processes. The first in what we hope to be many conversations about this inspirational work. With Andrea, Hanne explores the idea that thinking and feeling emerge from the same fundamental act of sense-making, which is rooted in our basic, biological existence. De Jaegher shares her personal experiences and how they led to her academic journey studying cognitive science, and then to her work on participatory sense-making. She emphasizes the importance of recognizing both oneness and difference in relationships and the conversation discusses the critical role of noticing and relational awareness. Through various explorations, De Jaegher illustrates how love is an ongoing relational activity that ‘shares a core with knowing’ and that can foster a deeper understanding of ourselves and others. Loving and Knowing: reflections for an engaged epistemology Paradoxical Practices (2025) with Elena Cuffari and Rika Preiser Participatory Sense-Making with Ezequiel Di Paolo Sense Making (Maturana & Varela) Living Ways of Sense Making by Evan Thompson Hanne’s website and publication list Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” the importance of care and 'mattering', constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions throughout. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| Summer of 2024: Synapses of Life with Shoma Chaudhury | 12 Aug 2025 | 01:29:15 | |
Andrea shares a deeply reflective conversation with renowned journalist Shoma Chaudhury. Originally recorded over a year ago for the Synapse conference, this episode offers an intimate look into Shoma's thought process and career journey. Shoma discusses her approach to holding nuanced, meaningful conversations with a wide variety of people, including some of the most famous figures globally. The episode delves into Shoma's personal experiences of navigating public scrutiny and professional hardships. Through the lens of her experiences, Shoma elaborates on themes of curiosity, compassion, forgiveness, and the complexity of human emotions and interactions. The conversation emphasizes the importance of creating spaces where people with opposing viewpoints can have honest dialogue and the valuable lessons that come from challenging life events. Both Shoma and Andrea explore the role of wonder, love, and respect in developing a more nuanced understanding of the world and ourselves. Synapse Deck: https://tinyurl.com/5eaf2sdb Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #67: Autonomy, Autopoiesis & the Enactive Approach with philosopher Ezequiel Di Paolo (Mirko Prokop) | 02 Aug 2025 | 01:12:51 | |
After Andrea’s introduction, Mirko Prokop talks to Ezequiel Di Paolo about the enactive approach in cognitive science and its roots in Francisco Varela’s work on biological autonomy. They explore the ideas of autonomy and autopoiesis, the deeper meaning of enaction, how biological, sensorimotor and social dimensions of embodiment drive the ongoing, creative process that is human becoming, and what this implies about the meaning of love, authenticity, and the importance of staying true to your questions. Support with a paid subscription Ezequiel is a Research Professor at Ikerbasque, the Basque Science Foundation and member of the IAS-Research Centre for Life, Mind and Society at the University of the Basque Country as well as the Centre for Computational Neuroscience and Robotics at the University of Sussex. He is known for key developments of the enactive approach and has published numerous articles and books on this and related topics in cognitive science and philosophy. Most recently, together with Evan Thompson he has reedited the new, annotated edition of Francisco Varela’s book Principles of Biological Autonomy, first published in 1979. 00:00 Intro by Andrea 05:02 Varela’s Principles of Biological Autonomy: From First Encounter to New Edition 11:25 Autopoiesis and Autonomy 19:20 Enaction: Bringing Forth a World 26:38 The Co-Construction of Organism and Environment 33:46 Dimensions of Embodiment 38:35 Enactive Becoming 43:57 The Primordial Tension of Participatory Sense-Making 52:32 What’s Love Got to Do With It? 1:00:36 Authentic Becoming 1:04:40 Staying True to Your Questions Links to mentioned work by Varela & Co: Principles of Biological Autonomy (Varela, F., E. Di Paolo and E. Thompson (eds.), 1979/2025, MIT Press) The Embodied Mind (Thompson, E. Varela, F., and Rosch, E. 1991/2018, MIT Press) Organism: A Meshwork of Selfless Selves (Varela, F., 1991) Patterns of Life: Intertwining Identity and Cognition (Varela, F., 1997) Life after Kant: Natural Purposes and the autopoietic foundations of biological individuality (Weber, A. and Varela, F., 2002) Autopoiesis, Adaptivity, Teleology, Agency (Di Paolo, E., 2005) Participatory sense-making: An enactive approach to social cognition (De Jaegher, H., and Di Paolo, E., 2007) Sensorimotor Life (Di Paolo, E., Buhrmann, T., Barandiaran, X., 2017, OUP) Linguistic Bodies (Di Paolo, E., De Jaegher, H., and Cuffari, E., 2018, MIT Press) Enactive Becoming (Di Paolo, E., 2021) F/acts: Ways of Enactive Worldmaking (Di Paolo, E., 2023) Mirko Prokop is currently a PhD student at the IAS-Research Centre for Life, Mind and Society at the University of the Basque Country (UPV/EHU). Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #66 Harmonizing the Dao with analytic philosopher Eric Schwitzgebel | 24 Jul 2025 | 01:23:20 | |
This show is about harmonizing the Dao and embracing the world's weirdness at once. Our guest is Eric Schwitzgebel, an analytic philosopher and professor at the University of California Riverside. As they unfold the Dao and the world’s weirdness, Andrea and Eric explore everything from robot consciousness, the love darts of snails, triads, axiology, and the philosophy of opening. Eric shares his journey into classical Chinese philosophy, how we understands harmonizing with the Dao, some of his writings about consciousness, and the importance of appreciating the world's inherent weirdness. This conversation offers a delightful blend of profound ideas and joyous reflections, encouraging us to see weird as a way into new perspectives and perhaps even into love. Hosted by philosopher Andrea Hiott 00:00 Introduction to Love and Philosophy The Book we discuss: Writings we discuss: Imagining Yourself in Another’s Shoes versus Extending Your Concern: Empirical & Ethical Differences A Robot Lover's Sociological Argument for Robot Consciousness Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #65 Play & Meaningful Uncertainty: Active Inference and the Intellectual Sweet Spot with Julian Kiverstein of Amsterdam UMC | 16 Jul 2025 | 01:23:00 | |
Julian Kiverstein is a senior professor at Amsterdam Medical. He's co-authored various papers about the importance of play as it relates to predictive processing, active learning, intimacy and embodied cognition. Andrea Hiott is a philosopher at Universität Heidelberg. Sometimes we get stuck in attractor states. Play is a form of disruption that may be able to help us get unstuck. Play seems to be far from algorithmic. This conversation explores how playfulness is crucial for meaning and flourishing, and how building safe spaces for play (such as museums and parks) are crucial for healthy societies. Active inference and predictive processing are discussed as tools that might help us better model and understand this ‘sweet spot’ towards finding ways to create spaces where we can explore uncertainty and risk without danger. Drawing from his extensive work in phenomenology, embodied cognition, and predictive processing, Julian offers fresh perspectives on how play connects to mental health and wellbeing. Some key ideas from this episode: • Play requires safety yet involves taking risks—a paradoxical relationship that enables personal growth
Intimate Places: Playgrounds for self-exploration Playfulness and the meaningful life with Mark Miller More of Julian's papers Stuart Brown and the Institute of Play JK and Darius Active Inference Institute Blog post about Active Inference Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #64: Complimentary Science & the Lure of Convenience with philosopher of technology Sabina Leonelli (Fotis Tsiroukis) | 09 Jul 2025 | 01:25:56 | |
Sabina Leonelli (hosted live here by Fotis Tsiroukis) is a philosopher of science and technology renowned for pioneering work in the philosophy of data & open science. As a professor at the Technical University ofMunich (TUM), she directs the Ethical Data Initiative and leads the PHIL_OS project, which develops empirically grounded frameworks for open science in under-resourced research environments. Her interdisciplinary approach bridges high theory with participatory, on-the-ground research—exemplified by her ethnographic collaborations with biologists and data scientists. In this episode, host Fotis engages in a deep and wide-ranging conversation with Sabina Leonelli. They explore the intersections between philosophy, science, and society, discussing topics like complementary science, the role of qualitative and quantitative methods in research, the challenges of interdisciplinary work, and the ethical implications of AI and data-driven technologies. Sabina urges us to not fear inconvenience—embracing complexity and discomfort in intellectual and social pursuits. The conversation touches on the necessity of love, vulnerability & collective agency in navigating the modern world, offering profound insights into how we can rethink knowledge production, technology, and politics. [00:00:00] Highlights & Introduction [00:10:41] Interview Begins [00:11:13] Sabina's Journey [00:14:17] Fascination with Boundary-Disrespecting Thinkers [00:16:20] Early Influences & Education [00:19:21] Challenges of Interdisciplinary Work [00:20:39] Mentors & Inspirations [00:23:54] The Approach of Complementary Science [00:28:37] Collaborating with Scientists as a Philosopher [00:32:26] Philosophy of Data [00:36:00] Questions Left Out of Biology [00:37:40] Coming to terms with Social Epistemology [00:40:05] Choices & Assumptions in Scientific Research [00:40:05] Willingness to Engage with the Social Nature of Science [00:44:05] Willingness to Use Different Methods [00:48:05] Acknowledging the Role of Quantification [00:50:27] Knowledge Hierarchies [00:55:00] Mixed Methods for Global Issues [00:57:00] Limits of AI: The Case of Medical Expertise [00:58:52] AI as Complement to Expert Knowledge [01:02:01] Cultural Obsession with Control & Convenience [01:03:45] Social Media & Digital Divide [01:07:20] Regaining Agency Through Politics [01:12:30] Collective Action & Social Relationships [01:15:00] Need for Political Engagement [01:17:20] Contemporary Disillusionment [01:19:40] Love as a Teacher [01:22:20] Vulnerability & Human Experience [01:25:50] Caring as Leverage for Engagement Data Shadows (Art-Science Film Collaboration) Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #63 Shaping Habits Together: life's changes and challenges with cognitive scientist Mark Michael James | 29 Jun 2025 | 01:49:26 | |
Andrea in conversation with fellow cognitive scientist Mark Michael James, highlighting his journey from understanding patterns of being to shaping habits and realigning health. Mark shares his experiences from Ireland, his academic pursuits, and his present work at the Okinawa Institute of Science and Technology. This episode delves into synchronicity, embodied cognition, and the philosophies and practices of the arising 'school of way' of practice and philosophy which includes 'wayshaping' and 'waymaking' and pertains to a paper Mark has recently written with Mushfiqa Jamaluddin, Tom Froese, Aisha Belhadi, Anna Panagiotou, and Dave Snowden. It all ties back to practical applications in health, navigating complexity, and striving for a dynamic balance in life. Mark's personal stories and reflections make this a must-watch for anyone interested in cognitive science, philosophy, and the art of living well. Also, have a look at this book about Mindshaping by Michelle Maiese. Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| Kaleidoscopic Cognition: Beyond Dichotomy | 23 Jun 2025 | 00:02:30 | |
TRAILER: Bringing care into public discourse alongside critical thinking. Hello, everyone. In today's world, we're often pushed into choosing sides and thinking in absolutes. But what if there was another way? Or rather, what if there were many other ways? Welcome to to Love and Philosophy. This is a cumulative philosophy project where we practice kaleidoscopic thinking, moving beyond either/or scenarios to embrace the complexity of existence.
Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #62: Living Philosophically and Thinking Wild with professor of technology Jessica Böhme | 19 Jun 2025 | 01:08:59 | |
Jessica Böhme is a sustainability scientist, transformation researcher, and founder of the Institute for Practical Eco Philosophy. Jessica shares her journey of exploring the connection between inner transformation and outer change, and how this quest has influenced her personal and professional life. Andrea and Jessica delve into the concept of living philosophically, the role of relational philosophies, and how they impact sustainability. They also discuss the challenges Jessica faced in academia, the significance of personal practices, and her innovative idea of 'philosophy gyms' aimed at integrating philosophy into everyday life for better ecological and business practices in the engineering world. Jessica also talks about her unique lifestyle choices, her artwork, and the broader implications of living a thoughtful, engaged life. Institute for Practical ekoPhilosophy Pierre Hadot: Philosophy as a Way of Life Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #61: Burning to Give Light: the delicate balance of illness and insight with former Wall Streeter Tom Morgan | 11 Jun 2025 | 01:27:14 | |
The line between a psychotic break and success is not quite as clear as it once was, nor is the question of what medication, therapy, or practice is best, or in what amount. This conversation tries to unpack that liminal space with a man who knows it well and has been able to stay connected to the love in it. Professional Qalifications & Photo Ref (Wall Street, philosophy degree from Oxford, etc.) Victor Frankl — 'What is to give light must endure burning.' Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #60: The Dao of Complexity with theoretical physicist Jean Boulton | 03 Jun 2025 | 01:12:42 | |
A heart-meets-mind discussion about complexity science and its suprising relation to Daoism, with physicist Jean Boulton. The conversation explores how stability and change are part of a reflexive interweaving of relationships, the importance of actions and behaviors in co-creating the future, and the role of compassion and love in fostering resilience. We also touch on the profound influence of spiritual practices such as Taoism and Buddhism on understanding complexity. The discussion emphasizes the necessity of integrating heart and mind, and how seemingly small, compassionate acts can create significant shifts. Whether you're interested in spiritual traditions, scientific perspectives, or personal development, this episode offers a rich tapestry of insights to inspire and guide you. 00:00 Introduction to Change and the Dao 00:33 The Interconnectedness of Actions and Behaviors 01:11 Embracing Complexity and Wider Perspectives 01:43 Guest Introduction: Jean's Background and Interests 01:50 Understanding Complexity in Science and Everyday Life 04:03 The Mechanistic Worldview vs. Complexity Science 06:29 Personal Journey: From Physics to Philosophy 08:09 The Influence of Family and Early Philosophical Interests 11:14 Process Complexity and the Dao 11:41 The Paradox of Stability and Change 13:31 The Role of Context and History in Shaping Patterns 14:11 Discovering Daoism and Its Connection to Complexity 15:47 The Nuances of Daoism in Understanding Complexity 19:21 The Importance of Actions, Intentions, and Purpose 26:13 The Role of Attention and Noticing in Complexity 27:55 Integrating Heart, Mind, and Body in Complexity Science 33:23 The Embodied Experience of Complexity 35:02 The Interdisciplinary Nature of Complexity 36:04 Meditation and Embodiment 37:19 Tibetan Yoga and Compassion 40:16 Childhood and Personal Growth 42:42 Societal Wounds and Addictions Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||
| #59: Complexity Coding, Residuality Theory & the Hyperliminal: being flexible and rigid at once with architect Barry O'Reilly | 18 May 2025 | 01:22:19 | |
(Kaufmann Neworks are Boolean: see here if you want to know more, but you don't need to know anything about them to understand this episode) Please sign up for the newsletter here. Embracing Uncertainty: Barry O'Reilly on Software Architecture and Philosophy Architect's Paradox: Uncertainty and the Philosophy of Software Architecture Residues: Time, Change, and Uncertainty in Software Architecture. You Tube Talks: Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. | |||