Let's Talk Neurosense: the psychology of neurodiversity – Details, episodes & analysis

We recorded this interview before Uta gave an interview to the TES which created waves across X/Twitter. We’re releasing this now as it gives further depth to the issues Uta touched upon in her TES interview.

Please note there is some outdated language used in the podcast which some may find offensive.

In this latest episode of Let's Talk Neurosense, we talk to Katherine Uher, autistic psychotherapist and mum to her autistic son. Katherine is one of many people who got in touch with us following the release of our interview with Uta Frith. We had a really interesting discussion, touching on key issues such as masking, neurodivergence and neurotypicality, and what school's need in order to be able to meet the needs of autistic and neurodivergent children.

In this week's episode of Let's Talk Neurosense, neurodivergent GP Victoria Galvis talks to us about the importance, as she sees it, of the concept of neurodivergence in primary care settings, and how she is helping people in her clinical practice. Victoria is the co-author of the book Neurodivergence in Primary Care. We consider, amongst many topics, what might be the motivations of people who come at this topic from different perspectives.As always, let us know what you think of the ideas presented, and how they fit with your own experience or clinical practice.

In the fourth episode of Let’s Talk Neurosense, we talked to Katy Elphinstone, autistic advocate, researcher and author of How to Raise Happy Neurofabulous Children: A Parent’s Guide. She got in touch after our interview with Uta Frith (in episode one), as she wanted to respond to several of the points made.

Katy’s work focuses on autism, empathy and social justice, all from an autistic perspective. In this episode, Katy explained why she thinks autism is a social justice issue and why we need to become more aware of where the power lies. It’s a great conversation which touches on many important issues.

Katy created a reference list for this episode which can be found on the link below.

We hope you enjoy it.

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Dr Helen Kirkaldie is a clinical psychologist who specialises in working with adopted children and their families. She has extensive experience in working with developmental trauma and attachment.

In this conversation, she tells us how working with children has changed over her nineteen years of clinical experience, and how, as a society, we seem to have moved towards a more diagnostic framing of children’s differences and difficulties. She talks about how the question of autism or ADHD is now frequently part of her work, when previously it would not have been. We talk about how children’s behaviour and distress can always be viewed through different lenses, depending on the perspective of the adults around them.

We discuss the way that professionals try to help, and how a diagnosis can be essential for children and families in accessing support. We talk about the many different roles that a diagnosis plays, and the dilemmas that this creates for professionals and families. This is an honest conversation about the real-life tensions of clinical practice with distressed children and their families.

We hope you enjoy it.

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Earlier this year a new book, ‘Upward Bound’, garnered a lot of attention. It’s authorship was attributed to non-speaking autistic man Woody Brown. It was covered in the Guardian, the New York Times and the Today Show. It’s part of a long tradition where non-speaking autistic people are credited with the authorship of books and articles that they spell out, letter by letter, with the support of a facilitator.

But is it too good to be true? This is a hotly debated area, with some claiming it can be abusive, while others say it’s the key to unlocking a person’s inner life.

Amy Lutz is someone for whom this has personal resonance. She has an adult son, Jonah, who she describes as profoundly autistic. Her concerns about how he and people like him are being spoken over led her to do a PhD which became her book ‘Chasing the Intact Mind- How The Severely Autistic and Intellectually Disabled Were Excluded from the Debates That Affect Them Most’.In our discussion, Amy talks about her experience as a parent, her concerns about the potential harms of facilitated communication, and the contradictions of the neurodiversity movement. She also discusses the limitations of the social model of disability when applied to those with severe cognitive disabilities.

Amy sheds light on a fascinating and highly contested area of autism from both a personal and academic perspective. This is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

In this episode, we talked to Jonathan Green. He’s a child psychiatrist and conducts research into children’s social development at the University of Manchester. His research centres around early intervention for autistic children - but he doesn’t work directly with the children. The intervention is with parents, to help them to understand and interact with their autistic children better. They aim to improve the social environment of the child, to better scaffold their development.

Jonathan tells us the details of how these interventions work, what their research findings are and why he is so passionate about bringing evidence-based early intervention to as many families as possible. We also discuss some of the controversies around the idea of early intervention.

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This week we are delighted to bring you this interview with Anna. Anna is an autistic woman diagnosed in adulthood who is passionate about raising awareness of non-stereotypical presentations of autism. She also has severe OCD and has been housebound for the last six years. She has a YouTube channel called ‘Autism’s Individual’ where she posts about autism and her life.

In this conversation with Naomi, Anna explains how she spent her childhood being described as ‘an enigma’. She tells us about her diagnosis of Asperger’s syndrome at the age of twenty-one, and what that meant to her. She also speaks about masking, the need for subgroups in the autism spectrum and why she thinks we need to keep using the word ‘disorder’.

Anna has a unique perspective on autism and a fascinating story to tell. We hope you enjoy it.

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When we asked Fabian what his autism diagnosis meant to him, he didn’t beat around the bush. ‘I was lost and then I was found’ he said. Fabian collected several psychiatric diagnoses before he realised that he might be autistic. He worked it out for himself and then a psychiatrist confirmed it. He says that seeing himself as disabled, rather than having a psychiatric illness, changed everything.

But Fabian is sceptical about some of the ways that autism is being portrayed and discussed online. While he thinks that people should be able to self-identify, he recognises that lived experience is a complicated thing and there are multiple incentives at place. When people post reels of themselves having meltdowns on social media, for example, what is that about? Should we value lived experience over research - and what happens when they point us in different directions? This was an unusually open conversation and we hope you enjoy it.

This week, Dani sits down with Naomi to find out about her journey into clinical psychology, her relationship to the topic of neurodiversity, her experiences of home schooling her two children, and some of the reasons she wanted to start this podcast. They reflect on some of the responses that Naomi has received since speaking out about the things that concern her online, as well as some of the ways that she tries to stay grounded and connected to what matters.