Vlad Loktev spent 10 years at Airbnb, where he started as an IC PM and quickly advanced to lead the core Airbnb marketplace business and then GM the entire homes business, managing over 1,000 people and reporting directly to CEO Brian Chesky. He recently left Airbnb and joined Index Ventures as their newest partner. Vlad was my manager at Airbnb for many years, and is the person I credit most for teaching me how to be a great product manager. Prior to Airbnb, Vlad spent a year at Zynga, where he helped grow Words with Friends to over 14 million daily active users. In our conversation, Vlad shares:

• Insight into Brian Chesky’s leadership style

• Why success as a PM is all about impact, impact, impact

• Why chaos can be good

• Why as a leader it’s OK to let some fires burn

• Why you should learn to “poke the bear”

• Balancing product release speed with quality

• Lessons on prioritization, decision-making, and organizational design

• Advice for founders on building company culture

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/impact-impact-impact-vlad-loktev

—

Where to find Vlad Loktev:

• X: https://x.com/vladimirloktev

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vladimirloktev/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Vlad’s background

(02:54) Reflecting on transformative years at Airbnb

(04:28) Skills and mindsets for success

(11:03) Impact-driven mindset

(13:16) Saying no and inquiry before advocacy 

(17:54) “Poking the bear”

(22:46) Psychological tools for leadership

(30:08) Building and scaling teams

(36:12) Letting fires burn

(47:34) Embracing chaos

(54:40) The unsell email strategy

(01:02:01) Finding your place in an organization

(01:05:38) The importance of company culture

(01:13:16) Airbnb’s unique approach to product management

(01:26:41) Failure corner

(01:31:32) Lightning round and final thoughts

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Nikita Bier is one of the most in-demand consumer, social, and growth experts in the world. He’s the co-founder of TBH (sold to Meta for more than $30 million) and Gas (sold to Discord for millions more) and has helped more consumer apps that have hit #1 in the app stores than any other person I’ve come across. He currently spends his time advising founders on growth, product, and design and is an investor and advisor to some of the best consumer tech companies, including Flo, Locket, Eight Sleep, Citizen, BeReal, Captions, and more. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The inside story of how TBH and Gas achieved explosive growth

• Strategies for building viral consumer apps

• Why teens are such a great audience

• Fighting the human trafficking hoax at Gas

• The challenge of creating durable social products

• His experience working as a PM at Facebook

• Advice for founders on building consumer apps

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Webflow—The web experience platform

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

—

Book Nikita for 1:1 consultation/mentoring: https://intro.co/NikitaBier

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-consistently-go-viral-nikita-bier

—

Where to find Nikita Bier:

• X: https://x.com/nikitabier 

• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@nikitabier

• Website: https://intro.co/NikitaBier

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Nikita’s background 

(06:08) Nikita’s early ventures: Politify and Outline

(08:42) Transition to consumer apps

(13:45) The birth of TBH

(16:43) Building for teens vs. adults

(20:00) TBH’s viral success

(32:18) Leveraging live chat

(34:08) Lasting lessons from TBH

(37:00) Selling TBH to Facebook

(42:19) Big-tech product management

(48:46) Nikita on why “product management is not real”

(51:49) The Tim Cook painting story

(53:53) Leaving Facebook and starting a new venture

(58:02) Rebuilding TBH and overcoming challenges

(59:46) Addressing criticism

(01:04:24) The human trafficking hoax

(01:09:51) Selling to Discord and lessons learned

(01:11:36) Lasting lessons from Gas

(01:13:14) Building durable consumer apps

(01:22:35) The VC route

(01:23:27) Contact permissions in iOS 18

(01:26:53) The success of Dupe

(01:31:53) Advice for startup founders

(01:34:14) Work with Nikita

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Jessica Lachs is the global head of analytics and data science at DoorDash, where she’s built one of the largest and most respected data organizations in tech. In her more than 10 years at DoorDash, she has served as the first general manager, responsible for launching new markets; the head of business ops and analytics; and the VP of analytics and data science. Previously, Jessica founded GiftSimple, a social gifting startup, and started her career at Lehman Brothers as an investment banking analyst. In our conversation, she shares:

• How to structure and scale a high-impact analytics organization

• Centralized vs. decentralized data teams

• How to pick the right metric and aligning incentives

• Advice for data people on how and when to push back

• Lessons learned from building a global data team

• How to foster a culture of extreme ownership

• The role of AI in improving analytics team productivity

• Advice for aspiring data leaders without formal training

—

Brought to you by:

• Webflow—The web experience platform

• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents

• Attio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-world-class-data-org-jessica-lachs

—

Where to find Jessica Lachs:

• X: https://x.com/jesslachs

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-lachs/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Jessica’s background

(04:59) Centralized vs. embedded analytics teams

(10:52) The benefits of a centralized analytics team

(15:10) Balancing proactive and reactive work

(20:45) Advice on how to push back effectively

(24:20) Hiring for curiosity and problem solving

(28:57) Coming from a non-traditional background

(34:40) The early days and culture at DoorDash

(40:39) Encouraging cross-functional roles

(44:39) Defining effective metrics

(46:30) Simplifying metrics for better outcomes

(55:28) Focusing on edge cases and fail states

(01:00:12) Managing a global data organization

(01:02:31) Leveraging AI for productivity

(01:05:25) Building diverse and skilled data teams

(01:08:40) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• How Netflix builds a culture of excellence | Elizabeth Stone (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence

• Riley Newman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rileynewman/

• Tony Xu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xutony/

• Imposter Syndrome: Why You May Feel Like a Fraud: https://www.verywellmind.com/imposter-syndrome-and-social-anxiety-disorder-4156469

• Stanley Tang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stanleytang/

• Andy Fang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fangsterr/

• Evan Moore on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanmoore/

• How WeDash became the flagship employee program for DoorDash: https://careers.doordash.com/blog/wedash-doordash-employee-program-how-does-it-work

• Leading with empathy | Keith Yandell (DoorDash, Uber): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leading-with-empathy-keith-yandell

• The Rose Code: https://www.amazon.com/Rose-Code-Novel-Kate-Quinn/dp/006305941X

• Libby app: https://libbyapp.com/

• The West Wing on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/West-Wing-Complete-First-Season/dp/B000KZPG04

• Alias on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Alias-Season-1/dp/B00748O13S

• Joseon sunscreens: https://beautyofjoseon.com/

• Innisfree sunscreens: https://us.innisfree.com/

• John Steinbeck quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/john_steinbeck_103825

• Vanessa Roberts on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessa-roberts-b8a509a/

• Tia Sherringham on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiasherringham/

• Elizabeth Jarvis-Shean on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-jarvis-shean-141a7966/

• Regina (Gina) Tarone on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/regina-tarone-a565a2/overlay/about-this-profile/

• My Journey (Part 1): I have a job that I would never be hired for: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jessica-lachs_anniversary-datascience-finance-activity-7216912300056727553-mEv6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

• Starting an Analytics Org From Scratch — Lessons From a Decade at DoorDash: https://review.firstround.com/starting-an-analytics-org-from-scratch-lessons-from-a-decade-at-doordash/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life | Brave Search API—An independent, global search index you can use to power your search or AI app | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Hari Srinivasan is VP of Product at LinkedIn Talent Solutions, where he oversees LinkedIn Recruiter, LinkedIn Jobs, and LinkedIn Learning. He’s also a frequent guest lecturer at Stanford University. Previously, he served as the CEO and founder of We Created It, which was acquired by LinkedIn in 2014. Hari has a passion for building products, with experience ranging from creating the first U.S. hybrid SUV to developing a No. 1 app and writing a beloved children’s book. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• LinkedIn’s unique business model and org structure

• How to optimize your LinkedIn experience and improve your chances of getting a PM role

• How to adapt to a skills-first talent market

• The story of Hari’s failed first product review, and how he pivoted for success

• Strategies for building and maintaining complex systems

• How to get into product management

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/linkedins-product-evolution-and-the

—

Where to find Hari Srinivasan:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hsrinivasan1/

• Website: https://www.mindofhari.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Hari’s background

(05:04) How Twitter brought Lenny and Hari together

(06:32) LinkedIn’s positive evolution, and what they did right

(10:14) Specific changes that made LinkedIn’s feed more interesting

(11:12) Understanding the algorithm and what kinds of content perform best

(12:21) The talent solution product

(15:46) The shift to skills-first hiring, and how LinkedIn changed their approach

(20:24) The open-to-work signal, and the newly released open-to-internal-work signal

(22:13) The PM talent landscape, and tips for landing a PM role

(24:55) How to optimize your LinkedIn profile to get noticed by recruiters

(28:38) Hari’s first product review at LinkedIn

(30:38) LinkedIn’s North Star, and how to operationalize the North Star at any company

(33:24) LinkedIn’s members-first value

(35:32) Building and maintaining complex systems

(38:09) The RAPID framework and the Five-Day Alignment framework

(39:51) What LinkedIn looks for in new hires

(40:51) The latest innovations at LinkedIn

(43:16) LinkedIn Learning

(45:00) Hari’s product management course

(48:19) Advice for people hoping to get into product management

(50:40) How to level up your PM skills

(51:57) Hari’s creative side projects 

(55:02) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Tweet from TheCuriousPM: https://twitter.com/zatin_jatin/status/1658616200560254978?s=20

• The Curious PM on Twitter: https://twitter.com/zatin_jatin

• Decision-making at LinkedIn: https://engineering.linkedin.com/blog/2018/03/scaling-decision-making-across-teams-within-linkedin-engineering

• LinkedIn Learning: https://www.linkedin.com/learning

• Thinking in Systems: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Systems-Donella-H-Meadows/dp/1603580557

• Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow: https://www.amazon.com/Tomorrow-novel-Gabrielle-Zevin/dp/0593321200

• An Immense World: How Animal Senses Reveal the Hidden Realms Around Us: https://www.amazon.com/Immense-World-Animal-Senses-Reveal/dp/0593133234

• Star Wars on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/brand/star-wars

• Case 63 on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4c9ZKaFtEKweSYOlYvxfvp

• E.T. on Tubi: https://tubitv.com/movies/607451/e-t-the-extra-terrestrial

• BriteBrush: https://www.amazon.com/BriteBrush-Interactive-Smart-Toothbrush-featuring/dp/B07VLL8QH4

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security | Superhuman—The fastest email experience ever made | AssemblyAI—Production-ready AI models to transcribe and understand speech

—

Julia Schottenstein is a product lead at dbt Labs, a data transformation company, and an active angel investor in data and infrastructure startups. She first got excited about dbt in 2019 when she was a VC at NEA and decided to make the leap from investor to operator by joining dbt Labs. She also co-hosts the dbt Labs Analytics Engineering Podcast, a show about data trends that impact analytics engineers’ work. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Advice for founders hoping to improve their M&A outcome

• How to strategically think about competition

• How to determine your paid features and have willingness-to-pay conversations

• Why Julia lives by “worse is better” and “tech debt is a champagne problem”

• Lessons from dbt Labs

• What PMs can learn from investors

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/m-and-a-competition-pricing-and-investing

—

Where to find Julia Schottenstein:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/j_schottenstein

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-schottenstein-25424318/

• Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/4BKMMeVXk4jJnAQSqGSJvE

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Julia’s background

(04:15) How Julia went from VC to working in product at dbt Labs

(08:24) Four things Julia uses to evaluate a company’s potential 

(11:10) How to identify whether or not you have product-market fit

(12:05) Distribution strategies

(13:11) M&A strategies

(15:54) Lessons from the Transform acquisition

(18:01) Competitive values at dbt

(20:25) Keys to dbt’s success

(26:35) An offsite exercise Julia used to help her team internalize upcoming changes

(29:32) Determining what features are included in open source

(31:56) Pricing and willingness to pay

(33:34) Lessons from dbt Labs’s first pricing change

(36:33) Whether or not to be public about selling your startup

(40:08) How to utilize connections during acquisitions

(44:57) How to communicate selling your company

(46:33) M&A market forecast

(47:28) Values at dbt Labs 

(50:14) Lessons from working with strongly opinionated users

(52:02) The importance of shipping, learning, and iterating 

(54:08) How VC skills translate into product

(57:03) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• dbt Labs: https://www.getdbt.com/

• Tristan Handy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristanhandy/

• dbt Labs acquires Transform to enhance Semantic Layer tool: https://www.techtarget.com/searchbusinessanalytics/news/365530993/DBT-Labs-acquires-Transform-to-enhance-Semantic-Layer-tool

• Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/

• Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid: https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567

• Red strings training clip from Ted Lasso: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVe3Iwy10MA

• Monetizing Innovation: https://www.amazon.com/Monetizing-Innovation-Companies-Design-Product/dp/1119240867

• Madhavan Ramanujam on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-art-and-science-of-pricing-madhavan#details

• Pricing survey: https://www.qualtrics.com/marketplace/vanwesterndorp-pricing-sensitivity-study/

• Hunter Walk’s blog post about publicly selling your startup: https://hunterwalk.com/2023/05/13/the-acquihire-market-for-early-stage-startups-is-ice-cold-one-better-strategy-announce-youre-for-sale/

• Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214506/

• The Snowball: Warren Buffett and the Business of Life: https://www.amazon.com/Snowball-Warren-Buffett-Business-Life/dp/0553384619/r

• Sam Walton: Made in America: https://www.amazon.com/Sam-Walton-Made-America/dp/0553562835

• Succession on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/succession

• In Depth podcast: https://review.firstround.com/podcast

• dbt community Slack: https://www.getdbt.com/community/join-the-community/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Brave—The independent, global search index you can use to power your search or AI app | Attio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups | Round—The private network built by tech leaders for tech leaders

—

Paige Costello is a beloved product leader with a reputation as a remarkable coach and mentor. She is currently the Head of Core Product at Asana, where she leads the group responsible for Asana’s web, desktop, and mobile apps. Prior to that role, she served as the Director of Product at Intercom and, before that, as a Group PM at Intuit, where she kickstarted her product career through their renowned APM program. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• The unique product development process at Asana and how it’s evolved

• The double-diamond framework

• Conscious leadership training, and why every Asana employee learns it

• How to demonstrate confidence and earn trust from skeptics

• Why curiosity and openness may be the most important PM competencies

• How to give feedback using impact statements

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-ask-the-right-questions-project

—

Where to find Paige Costello:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/paigenow

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paigecostello/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Paige’s background

(04:38) What Paige is responsible for at Asana

(06:04) The evolution of Asana’s product development process

(09:10) Planning frequency

(11:26) Examples of areas and metric tracking at Asana

(12:46) The double-diamond process and how it’s applied at Asana

(16:53) Asana’s office-centric hybrid work culture and the future of WFH

(21:45) How to garner trust and win over skeptics

(24:45) Why you should befriend researchers

(26:17) How to exude confidence

(29:03) The 3Es framework

(33:43) Advice for early-career PMs

(38:43) Paige’s latest pillars strategy

(40:05) AI at Asana

(41:50) Lessons from Paige’s time at Intuit

(45:53) Challenges new PMs face

(48:55) Challenges Paige has faced in her career

(52:39) Paige’s skill-focused career philosophy

(55:43) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Use This Equation to Determine, Diagnose, and Repair Trust: https://review.firstround.com/use-this-equation-to-determine-diagnose-and-repair-trust

• About conscious leadership at Asana: https://wavelength.asana.com/workstyle-simple-shift/

• The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership: A New Paradigm for Sustainable Success: https://www.amazon.com/15-Commitments-Conscious-Leadership-Sustainable/dp/0990976904

• Intuit: https://www.intuit.com/

• Inspired: How to Create Tech Products Customers Love: https://www.amazon.com/INSPIRED-Create-Tech-Products-Customers/dp/1119387507

• The Blind Assassin: https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Assassin-Novel-Margaret-Atwood/dp/0385720955

• The Alchemist: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemist-Paulo-Coelho/dp/0062315005

• The Diplomat on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81288983

• Fire of Love on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/fire-of-love/1hC7erRfsl3B

• Poe: https://poe.com/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Brave Search API—An independent, global search index you can use to power your search or AI app | Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life | Superhuman—The fastest email experience ever made

—

Jiaona Zhang (JZ) is a product leader with a strong background in consumer products and extensive hiring and management experience. She is currently SVP of Product at Webflow as well as a lecturer at Stanford, where she teaches a graduate-level course on product management. Before Webflow, JZ was Head of Product for the Homes Platform at Airbnb and has also led product teams at Airbnb, WeWork, and Dropbox. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Building a “minimum lovable product” rather than a minimum viable product

• How to create better roadmaps through storytelling

• Top lessons from Dropbox, Airbnb, WeWork, and Webflow

• The importance of setting ambitious OKRs

• JZ’s first 90 days playbook: how to succeed in a new role

• Advice for early-career PMs

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-minimum-lovable-products

—

Where to find Jiaona Zhang:

• Reforge: https://www.reforge.com/managing-your-pm-career

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jiaona/

• Website: https://www.jiaonazhang.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) JZ’s background

(04:22) Common mistakes new PMs make

(06:44) Why Airbnb Plus didn’t work out, and takeaways from that experience

(10:51) Executing big dreams step-by-step

(13:45) The right way to push back against founders

(16:54) Minimum lovable product vs. minimum viable product

(20:53) What makes a product lovable

(22:20) Advice on roadmapping and prioritization

(28:04) Tips for new PMs to accelerate their career

(29:16) JZ’s top skills and how they have evolved over her career

(31:37) Designing crisp OKRs

(36:09) Lessons from WeWork

(43:01) Winning the first 90 days at a new company

(48:34) Why trust is crucial

(51:48) High-level lessons from Dropbox, Airbnb, WeWork, and Webflow

(56:38) The one piece of advice that transformed JZ’s career

(58:39) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Mike Lewis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelewis/

• “What working at Figma taught me about customer obsession,” VP of Product Sho Kuwamoto: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/what-working-at-figma-taught-me-about

• WeWork: https://www.wework.com/

• WeCrashed on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/wecrashed/umc.cmc.6qw605uv2rwbzutk2p2fsgvq9

• Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days: https://www.amazon.com/Sprint-Solve-Problems-Test-Ideas/dp/150112174X

• The Making of a Manager: What to Do When Everyone Looks to You: https://www.amazon.com/Making-Manager-What-Everyone-Looks/dp/0735219567

• Tress of the Emerald Sea: A Cosmere Novel: https://www.amazon.com/Tress-Emerald-Sea-Brandon-Sanderson/dp/1250899656/

• Arcane on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81435684

• Snoo: https://www.happiestbaby.com/

• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Attio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups | Coda—Meet the evolution of docs | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Sri Batchu currently leads growth at Ramp, the fastest-growing SaaS business (and fintech business) in history. Previously, he led growth strategy and operations at Instacart and was one of the first 50 employees at Opendoor, where he built, scaled, and managed a variety of business teams, including analytics, sales, and pricing. During his time there, the company grew from $100M to $5B+ in revenue and to 1,500+ people. In this episode, we discuss:• The surprising tactics behind Ramp’s unprecedented early growth• A breakdown of Ramp’s current growth org and growth channels• Why you need to be “failing conclusively”• Ramp’s unique approach to metrics and measurement• Examples of Ramp’s “secret sauce”: a data- and technology-driven approach to everything• Why Sri prioritizes employee autonomy and flexibility over hours worked• Why team structure is a red herring for growth teams, and what Sri focuses on instead• How to set good North Star metrics, and why you should have more than one• Why Sri prefers payback periods over CAC for measuring investment ROI

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-scaling-ramp-sri-batchu

—

Where to find Sri Batchu:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/sri_batchu

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sribatchu/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Sri’s background

(04:07) Stats surrounding Ramp’s hypergrowth

(06:20) How Ramp set the stage for their remarkable growth

(09:19) New customers vs. customer expansion

(10:20) How Ramp has prioritized data-driven decisions

(12:12) Ramp’s growth engineering team, and how it supports the sales team

(13:41) The structure of the growth team at Ramp

(14:36) The “skunk works” team

(15:49) How Ramp maintains working at such high velocity

(19:11) How Ramp boosts morale and keeps employees engaged and excited

(21:45) How to promote hard work

(25:10) Optimizing efficiency in your growth engine

(27:28) Leveraging PR and fundraising

(29:20) Traditional media vs. newsletters and podcasts

(30:49) Building a repeatable and scalable growth process

(32:28) Examples of good North Star metrics

(37:09) Lower-level metrics

(40:30) When it makes sense to use the North Star framework

(42:03) Why Ramp doesn’t allow signups through personal emails, and how to reach out if you’re in that position

(43:11) Efficiency metrics and volume metrics

(46:49) Payback period vs. CAC for measuring ROI

(48:55) Defining payback period and contribution margin

(49:51) How to sequence growth tactics for B2B

(52:18) Experimentation and the importance of failing conclusively

(58:06) Ramp’s tool stack

(1:00:32) How to hire great people

(1:03:21) The importance of compensating employees properly

(1:06:28) The MECE framework

(1:09:21) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• How Ramp builds product, in Lenny’s Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-ramp-builds-product

• Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/

• Keith Rabois on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith/

• Packy McCormick’s article on Ramp: https://www.notboring.co/p/ramps-double-unicorn-rounds-behind

• Gibson Biddle’s framework: https://gibsonbiddle.medium.com/9-the-gem-model-65c89face5de

• DoorDash’s business model: https://businessmodelanalyst.com/doordash-business-model/

• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/

• Mutiny: https://www.mutinyhq.com/

• Gokul Rajaram on Twitter: https://twitter.com/gokulr

• Claire Hughes Johnson on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-from-scaling-stripe/

• MECE principle: https://productfolio.com/mece-principal/

• Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as If Your Life Depended on It: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805

• Stories of Your Life and Others: https://www.amazon.com/Stories-Your-Life-Others-Chiang/dp/1101972122/r

• Everything Everywhere All at Once on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/movie/everything-everywhere-all-at-once-fa320000-8cf3-46fc-8c45-df5ec67b71f2

• Fellow kettles: https://fellowproducts.com/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by AssemblyAI—Production-ready AI models to transcribe and understand speech | Mixpanel—Product analytics that everyone can trust, use, and afford | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Melissa Tan is an advisor, investor, and growth expert. She’s worked with fast-growing startups like Dropbox, Canva, Grammarly, and Miro, and for the past 2.5 years has been the Head of Growth at Webflow. There, she led the company's self-service business across Product, Marketing, and Growth, in addition to leading the charge on pricing and packaging. Prior to Webflow, she was Head of Growth for Dropbox’s B2B product, where she played a pivotal role in propelling their growth. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Attributes of high-performing teams

• Tips for developing talent and seeking a mentor

• How to create a strong culture of ownership

• Frameworks for hiring PM and growth talent

• Common pitfalls companies face when implementing growth strategies

• Lessons from scaling Dropbox

• The DACI framework for increasing team velocity

• How to actually embrace first-principles thinking

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-high-performing-teams-melissa

—

Where to find Melissa Tan:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/melissamtan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissamtan/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Melissa’s background

(04:12) What’s next for Melissa

(06:45) Lessons learned from Dropbox

(11:49) When to add sales to product-led products and vice versa

(14:28) Managing people with a people-focused and results-oriented approach

(17:14) An example of people-focused leadership

(20:26) The importance of talent development and why Melissa invests in it

(22:26) Tips for finding a mentor

(24:58) Specific questions to ask when you are interviewing for a role

(27:49) Companies Melissa has worked with

(28:33) Attributes of high-performing teams

(31:38) Creating a sense of ownership among team members

(34:36) Building a team-first culture

(36:54) Avoiding burnout by knowing your limits

(39:24) Developing talent and unlocking potential within your organization

(42:45) Melissa’s hiring practices and what she looks for in a product manager

(44:40) The exact interview sequence Melissa utilizes

(49:58) Common pitfalls when creating growth teams

(53:43) “Flying formation” and the DACI framework

(56:48) Who should own revenue

(58:19) When to invest in growth

(1:01:06) What to look for in your first growth hire

(1:04:35) When it’s appropriate to hire an advisor

(1:06:19) First-principles thinking

(1:09:50) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Jiaona Zhang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jiaona/

• Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Women-Work-Will-Lead/dp/0385349947

• Tim Ferriss: How to Find a Great Mentor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVo1aZCyfO4

• Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Revised-Kick-Ass-Humanity/dp/1250235375/

• How to Monetize a Freemium Business: https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/how-to-monetize-a-freemium-business

• DACI framework: https://www.productplan.com/glossary/daci/

• Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don't: https://www.amazon.com/Leaders-Eat-Last-Together-Others/dp/1591848016/r

• The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself: https://www.amazon.com/Untethered-Soul-Journey-Beyond-Yourself/dp/1572245379/

• The Four Agreements: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Agreements-Practical-Personal-Freedom/dp/1878424319

• Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/winning-time-the-rise-of-the-lakers-dynasty

• ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/

• Webflow: https://webflow.com/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Mixpanel—Product analytics that everyone can trust, use, and afford | Attio—A powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Luc Levesque is Chief Growth Officer at Shopify and has advised companies like Canva, Twitter, Pinterest, and Patreon on growth and product strategy. Previously he served as an executive at TripAdvisor, where he built and led the growth team that helped it become the world’s largest travel site. Luc was then recruited by Mark Zuckerberg to Facebook, where he was an executive and held senior product and engineering leadership roles. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Why you need to become world-class at hiring

• Tips for finding a great growth advisor and assessing their impact

• Why truly great companies focus on impact

• Common mistakes to avoid when building a growth team

• The importance of passion and continuous self-improvement

• Signs your company should explore SEO as a growth channel, and strategies to do so

• Why Mark Zuckerberg personally recruited Luc and what it taught him about the recruiting process

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leveraging-growth-advisors-hiring

—

Where to find Luc Levesque:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/luclevesque

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luclevesque/

• Website: https://luclevesque.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Luc’s background

(03:31) Luc’s first MT review at Facebook

(07:09) Impact vs. industriousness

(09:20) Facebook’s relentless, personalized approach to recruiting talent

(13:12) Luc’s hiring playbook

(16:56) When to focus on growth and the importance of product-market fit

(18:04) What to look for in a growth advisor

(23:15) The large impact Luc made from a small conversation

(26:52) Advice on compensating advisors

(31:35) How to find a good growth advisor using VCs and your network

(33:33) The importance of having an in-house person and growth advisors as support

(38:15) Tips for becoming a growth advisor

(41:59) The power of SEO 

(45:29) The two buckets of SEO

(49:21) Channels of growth

(51:49) The potential impact of ChatGPT on Google and SEO

(56:04) Advice on hiring an SEO person

(58:19) How long it takes for SEO to make an impact

(1:00:07) Self-reflection, cold plunge, and other tools Luc uses to excel in his personal and work life

(1:06:46) Luc’s famous dinner guild

(1:10:33) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Luc’s blueprint: https://coda.io/@luc-levesque/blueprint-for-leaders-managers-communicate-your-quirks/my-blueprint-9

• Jeff Bezos’s morning routine: https://finty.com/us/daily-routines/jeff-bezos

• Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain: https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113514

• Smart Brevity: The Power of Saying More with Less: https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Brevity-Power-Saying-More/dp/1523516976

• Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion: https://www.amazon.com/Influence-New-Expanded-Psychology-Persuasion/dp/0062937650/

• Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity: https://www.amazon.com/Outlive-Longevity-Peter-Attia-MD/dp/0593236599

• Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t: And Other Tough-Love Truths to Make You a Better Writer: https://www.amazon.com/Nobody-Wants-Read-Your-Tough-Love/dp/1936891492

• The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles: https://www.amazon.com/War-Art-Through-Creative-Battles/dp/1936891026

• The Legend of Bagger Vance: A Novel of Golf and the Game of Life: https://www.amazon.com/Legend-Bagger-Vance-Novel-Golf/dp/038072751X

• Huberman Lab podcast: https://hubermanlab.com/welcome-to-the-huberman-lab-podcast/

• The All-In Podcast: https://www.allinpodcast.co/

• Renu cold plunge: https://www.renutherapy.com/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Superhuman—The fastest email experience ever made | Microsoft Clarity—See how people actually use your product | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Nikhyl Singhal is VP of Product at Meta, overseeing teams building messaging, groups, stories, and the main Facebook feed. Before that, he served as the Chief Product Officer at Credit Karma and held various leadership roles at Google, leading teams on Google Photos and Google Hangouts. Nikhyl was also co-founder of three startups, including SayNow and Cast Iron Systems, which were acquired by Google and IBM, respectively. Alongside his successful career, he is passionate about coaching and mentoring, sharing his knowledge through the Skip podcast, newsletter and CPO community. In this episode, we discuss:

• Finding your North Star and building a long and meaningful career

• Why your superpower may actually be holding you back

• Wisdom for aspiring product managers in the early stages of their career

• Reasons you aren’t getting promoted, and advice on what to change

• How to avoid short-term thinking early in your career and how to become a better manager long-term

• Signs you work at an “ex-growth” company and that it’s time to leave

• Signs the IC path is a reasonable pursuit

• The importance of finding a community

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-long-and-meaningful-career

—

Where to find Nikhyl Singhal:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/nikhyl

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhyl/

• Newsletter: https://theskip.substack.com/

• Podcast: https://www.skip.community/

• Skip CPO Community: https://www.linkedin.com/company/skip-community-for-cpos/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Nikhyl’s background

(04:37) Nikhyl’s mentoring approach during critical periods of change

(07:07) The power of long-term career planning

(10:36) The value of gaining varied experiences rather than merely collecting logos on your resume

(12:52) The unique benefits of working at a “MAGMA” company

(14:50) Ex-growth companies and the impact of 0% interest rates

(20:19) Signs your company may be struggling to find the right product-market fit

(21:32) When you should stay at an ex-growth company

(22:34) Early career advice for product managers

(25:25) Mid-career strategies for promotion

(29:47) Summarizing the 4 reasons you may not be getting promoted

(30:15) The value of authentic feedback

(33:29) Tactical tips for getting better feedback

(34:46) Addressing management challenges in tech

(39:50) Opportunities for those who prefer the IC path

(45:25) How to become a better manager through community building

(47:40) Nikhyl’s community, The Skip

(51:27) Lenny’s Slack community

(52:54) Late-career advice and identifying skills that need reshaping

(57:07) Why it’s so important to listen to contradictory feedback

(59:45) Nikhyl’s “superpower” and “shadow”

(1:02:20) Mental health challenges and the third act of your career

(1:08:44) Examples of North Star metrics in the third act of your career

(1:12:20) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Annie Pearl on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/behind-the-scenes-of-calendlys-rapid-growth-annie-pearl-cpo/

• The Skip podcast episode about ex-growth companies: https://www.skip.community/should-i-join-or-leave-an-x-hypergrowth-company/

• Jules Walter on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/leveraging-mentors-to-uplevel-your-career-jules-walter-youtube-slack/

• Skip Community for CPOs on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/skip-community-for-cpos/

• Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986/

• Leadership and Self-Deception: Getting Out of the Box: https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Self-Deception-Getting-Out-Box/dp/B07H3G1KCN

• Rise on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/rise/6Yv1uRnw2uAJ

• Arc browser: https://arc.net/

• Josh Miller (CEO of The Browser Company) on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/competing-with-giants-an-inside-look-at-how-the-browser-company-builds-product-josh-miller-ceo/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life | Mixpanel—Product analytics that everyone can trust, use, and afford | Lenny’s Job Board—Hire the best product people. Find the best product gigs

—

Jeremy Henrickson is Rippling’s SVP of Product, responsible for scaling their product and design team across three continents. Previously, as Chief Product Officer at Coinbase, he oversaw 10x growth of the product and engineering organization and transformed a scrappy startup into a global cryptocurrency platform with tens of millions of users. He began his career at Apple in the 1990s and holds a BS and MS in computer science from Stanford. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Strategies for sustaining focus and momentum at scale

• The case against MVPs

• The problem with frameworks

• “Compound startups” and how this influences Rippling’s product development process

• Advice for founders wanting to move faster

• Why you don’t understand your product unless you’re “in the weeds”

• Hiring practices at Rippling and how young PMs can build fruitful careers

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/moving-fast-and-navigating-uncertainty

—

Where to find Jeremy Henrickson:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyhenricks

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyhenrickson/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Jeremy’s background

(03:24) What it was like leading product teams at Coinbase during the crypto boom

(05:25) How Jeremy kept teams focused and the biggest challenges he faced at Coinbase

(07:35) Advice for going through intense periods at work

(08:52) Maintaining velocity at scale

(12:07) An example of small teams with clear missions

(14:29) A model for building products

(18:03) Jeremy’s thoughts on MVPs (minimum viable products)

(22:26) Designing for the most complex use case first

(23:17) What a compound startup is and how it works at Rippling

(27:09) Rippling’s unique culture of fast decision-making

(28:14) Rippling’s leadership values

(32:13) Advice for cultivating fast-decision-making teams

(33:44) How deep-level thinking and working on the ground helped Rippling expand to other countries

(38:42) Why product leaders need to be right

(40:42) How Rippling decided where to expand to first

(42:29) The case for expanding internationally before you think you’re ready

(45:32) Why Jeremy isn’t a huge fan of frameworks

(48:08) The differences between building product at Rippling and Coinbase

(52:49) How Jeremy hires PMs at Rippling

(58:29) Advice for junior PMs

(1:00:19) Lessons from working with a founder who has strong opinions about what the product should be

(1:02:15) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Coinbase: https://www.coinbase.com/

• Ethereum: https://ethereum.org/en/

• Parker Conrad on Twitter: https://twitter.com/parkerconrad

• Rippling: https://www.rippling.com/

• Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I’d Known Earlier: https://www.amazon.com/Excellent-Advice-Living-Wisdom-Earlier/dp/0593654528

• Matt MacInnis on Twitter: https://twitter.com/stanine

• Rippling’s leadership principles: https://www.rippling.com/life

• Airbnb cereal story: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/18/airbnb-ceo-says-he-wooed-first-investors-with-boxes-of-cereal.html

• Guidewire: https://www.guidewire.com/

• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

• Kyle Boston on Twitter: https://twitter.com/KyleB

• Quicksilver (book one of the Baroque Cycle series:) https://www.amazon.com/Quicksilver-Baroque-Cycle-Vol-1/dp/0060593083/r

• Consider Phlebas (book 1 of The Culture series): https://www.amazon.com/Consider-Phlebas-Culture-Iain-Banks/dp/031600538X/

• The Last of Us on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-last-of-us

• The Game on Paramount+: https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/the-game-2021/

• Tenet: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6723592/

• Corsair H60 CPU cooler: https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-Hydro-Liquid-Cooler-Radiator/dp/B00A0HZMGA

• Focal Bathys headphones: https://www.amazon.com/Focal-Over-Ear-Bluetooth-Headphones-Cancelation/dp/B0B93YKQT3

• Pandemic: https://www.amazon.com/Z-Man-Games-ZM7101-Pandemic/dp/B00A2HD40E

• Gloomhaven: https://www.amazon.com/Cephalofair-Games-CPH0201-Gloomhaven/dp/B01LZXVN4P

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Microsoft Clarity—See how people actually use your product | Lenny’s Job Board—Hire the best product people. Find the best product gigs | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Nancy Duarte is the CEO of Duarte Inc. and has helped create over 250,000 presentations for influential business leaders across the globe, including Apple, TED, the World Bank, and Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth. She’s also written six best-selling books, and her TED talk has garnered over 3 million views. She regularly contributes to HBR, MIT-Sloan, and Forbes, and her books are essential reading in leading business schools worldwide. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Why empathy is at the heart of everything Nancy does

• Why you’re presenting more often than you think

• Tactics for creating interesting presentations and telling better stories

• The concept of a “torchbearer leader” and why it’s important

• Strategies for overcoming stage fright and nerves

• Tips for communicating and presenting remotely

• How Nancy landed Apple as a client and what she learned

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/storytelling-with-nancy-duarte-how

—

Where to find Nancy Duarte:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/nancyduarte

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancyduarte/

• Website: https://www.duarte.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Nancy’s background

(03:25) The insane number of presentations Nancy has helped create

(04:52) The most memorable presentation of Nancy’s career, and what it taught her

(07:04) The lasting impact of working with Al Gore

(09:00) How Nancy landed Apple as a client

(11:44) How working with Apple informed future presentations

(16:22) 3 things to remember when creating a deck

(17:33) The importance of empathy

(20:29) Empathy in action

(22:40) Why internal presentations are so high-pressure

(23:09) Signs you’re doing a good job making the audience the hero of the story

(25:38) The structure of great talks

(28:08) Lessons from great historical speeches

(30:02) You’re presenting more often than you think

(32:07) How Nancy uses this story structure in her marriage

(35:00) The framework What is? What could be? What is the ideal bliss?

(36:07) The importance of visuals

(41:12) Slide-making principles (titles, organization, and more)

(45:46) The Minto Pyramid Principle

(48:02) Think and plan before diving into software

(50:00) The Duarte process for crafting presentations

(53:18) How remote work has influenced the way we communicate and present 

(55:46) Strategies for overcoming stage fright and nerves

(1:01:10) The concept of “torchbearer leaders” and why it’s important 

(1:04:54) The surprising truth about informal vs. formal production quality

(1:07:37) Examples of PMs telling great stories

(1:11:49) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth: https://algore.com/library/an-inconvenient-truth-dvd

• Apple’s Think Different campaign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMBhDv4sik

• The Secret Structure of Great Talks (Nancy’s TED talk): https://www.ted.com/talks/nancy_duarte_the_secret_structure_of_great_talks

• The Structure of Great Talks graphic: https://www.google.com/search?q=nancy+duarte+ted+talk+great+story+up+and+down+like+teeth&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2hoCZmJH_AhVXATQIHb1KC2AQ0pQJegQIBxAB&biw=1512&bih=838&dpr=2#imgrc=5Jei-bDCXe2qQM

• I Have a Dream speech by Martin Luther King Jr.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP4iY1TtS3s

• The Minto Pyramid Principle: Logic in Writing, Thinking and Problem Solving: https://www.amazon.com/Minto-Pyramid-Principle-Writing-Thinking

• The Minto Pyramid Principle and the SCR Framework, by Lenny: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/minto-pyramid-principle-scr

• Illuminate: Ignite Change Through Speeches, Stories, Ceremonies, and Symbols: https://www.amazon.com/Illuminate-Through-Speeches-Stories-Ceremonies

• Marshall Ganz: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty/marshall-ganz

• Brian Chesky: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/

• Airbnb’s Snow White storyboards: https://uxdesign.cc/how-airbnb-proved-that-storytelling-is-the-most-important-skill-in-design-15d04ac71039

• The Writer’s Journey: https://www.amazon.com/Writers-Journey-Anniversary-Mythic-Structure

• Business Proposal: https://asianwiki.com/Business_Proposal

• Writer: https://writer.com/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Jeff Weinstein is a product lead at Stripe, where he helped grow their payment APIs to hundreds of billions in volume and transformed the way founders start companies into a few simple clicks with Atlas. Prior to Stripe, Jeff led several startups and sold companies to Groupon and Box. He’s known for his customer obsession, craft, quality, and building beloved products businesses rely on. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The power of customer obsession and how to operationalize it in the product development process

• How to pick the right metrics and use them to drive impact

• Techniques for getting things done at big companies

• A group practice Jeff started to uplevel product craft, called Study Group

• The story behind Stripe Atlas and its mission to increase entrepreneurship globally

• Lessons from working with the founders of Stripe

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• Cycle—Your feedback hub, on autopilot

• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/creating-a-culture-of-excellence

—

Where to find Jeff Weinstein:

• X: https://x.com/jeff_weinstein

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffwweinstein/

• Email: jweinstein@gmail.com

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Jeff’s background 

(10:16)  The “go, go, go ASAP + optimistic, long-term compounding” approach

(15:38) The importance of craft and quality

(24:15) Effective customer communication strategies

(28:57) The importance of speed in customer interactions 

(33:19) Narrowing your focus

(36:53) Why you should pay attention only to paying-customer feedback

(40:24) Practicing silence when communicating 

(45:33) The role of metrics in product success

(54:08) Empowering teams with a single metric

(58:23) Picking the right metric for your audience

(01:05:10) The importance of metric hygiene

(01:11:33) How Stripe uses “study groups” for product improvement

(01:37:20) Stripe’s Atlas: simplifying company formation

(01:50:38) Automation and operational efficiency

(01:55:13) Diversity and team building

(02:03:09) Building new products within a large company

(02:21:10) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Atlas: https://stripe.com/atlas

• Stripe: https://stripe.com/

• SQL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL

• GitHub: https://github.com/

• Linear: https://linear.app/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Jeff’s tweet about Stripe’s bug-finder program: https://x.com/jeff_weinstein/status/1777487507934040300

• The “Collison installation”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18400504

• How we use friction logs to improve products at Stripe: https://dev.to/stripe/how-we-use-friction-logs-to-improve-products-at-stripe-i6p

• Fidelity: https://www.fidelity.com/

• 83(b) election: https://docs.stripe.com/atlas/83b-election

• Jeff’s tweet about Atlas’s NPS score: https://x.com/jeff_weinstein/status/1788644576330469638

• What is a Delaware corporation? Here’s what makes this state so attractive to businesses: https://stripe.com/resources/more/what-is-a-delaware-corporation

• Incorporating in Delaware explained: Why it’s such a popular option for businesses: https://stripe.com/resources/more/incorporating-in-delaware-explained

• 7 of Pixar’s Best Storyboard Examples and the Stories Behind Them: https://boords.com/blog/7-of-pixars-best-storyboard-examples-and-the-stories-behind-them

• Alex Kehayias on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexkehayias/

• Patrick McKenzie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmckenzie/

• AngelList: https://www.angellist.com/

• Dan Hightower on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danhighto/

• Stripe Atlas perks partners: https://support.stripe.com/questions/stripe-atlas-perks-partners

• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

• High Output Management: https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove/dp/0679762884

• Orbiting the Giant Hairball: A Corporate Fool’s Guide to Surviving with Grace: https://www.amazon.com/Orbiting-Giant-Hairball-Corporate-Surviving/dp/0670879835

• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319

• Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer

• Box: https://www.box.com/

• Patrick Collison on X: https://x.com/patrickc

• How to with John Wilson on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/how-to-with-john-wilson

• The Quiet Girl on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/movie/the-quiet-girl-b50a4b8e-d3ff-4635-b806-5e7dbd292ca4

• Raycast: https://www.raycast.com/

• Quicksilver: https://qsapp.com/

• Alfred: https://www.alfredapp.com/help/workflows/automations/

• CleanShot: https://cleanshot.com/

• John Collison on X: https://x.com/collision

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Coda—Meet the evolution of docs | Lenny’s Job Board—Hire the best product people. Find the best product gigs | Eco—Your most rewarding app

—

Andy Raskin helps CEOs align their leadership teams around a strategic narrative—a single story that powers success in sales, marketing, product, fundraising, and recruiting. His clients include Gong, Dropbox, Uber, Salesforce, Square, and IBM. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• What a strategic narrative is, and how to craft one

• How having a strategic narrative can bring alignment to your entire company

• Examples of strategic narratives in action

• Who needs a strategic narrative and who doesn’t

• Why Andy thinks about movements instead of categories

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-power-of-strategic-narrative

—

Where to find Andy Raskin:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyraskin/

• Website: https://www.andyraskin.com/

• Podcast: https://andyraskin.com/podcast/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Andy’s background

(08:03) What is a strategic narrative?

(10:34) How Salesforce would have pitched the old way

(12:02) Examples of a strategic narrative in action 

(15:23) How one piece of writing skyrocketed Andy’s career

(16:40) The power of writing online

(17:53) Two paths to writing online

(19:27) Naming the old game

(20:59) Naming the stakes 

(23:29) Naming the objective

(25:17) Naming the obstacles

(26:35) Overcoming the obstacles

(26:57) How the strategic narrative parallels the hero’s journey 

(28:25) Telling one story well vs. being a good storyteller

(29:18) The 5-step framework summarized

(31:33) An example of the 5-step framework in action

(36:12) The impact of shifting to the strategic narrative approach 

(39:08) Companies that are nailing their strategic narrative 

(40:36) Why Andy thinks about movements instead of categories

(44:15) Should every company have a strategic narrative?

(46:33) Signs that something is broken in your strategic narrative

(48:53) Steps to get started on your own

(51:36) How to reach Andy

(51:53) Why the second session is the low point in the process

(55:30) Why the CEO needs to be part of the process

(57:40) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

• Marc Benioff: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbenioff/

• Zuora: https://www.zuora.com/

• The Greatest Sales Deck I’ve Ever Seen: https://medium.com/the-mission/the-greatest-sales-deck-ive-ever-seen-4f4ef3391ba0

• Gong: https://www.gong.io/

• Tien Tzuo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tientzuo/

• Want a Better Pitch? Master the “Move”: https://medium.com/firm-narrative/want-a-better-pitch-master-the-move-5fbee071ca7f

• Star Wars: https://www.starwars.com/

• The Hero with a Thousand Faces: https://www.amazon.com/Thousand-Faces-Collected-Joseph-Campbell/dp/1577315936

• 360Learning: https://360learning.com/

• Nick Hernandez: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicoconut/

• Amit Bendov: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amitbendov/

• Drift: https://www.drift.com/

• OneTrust: https://www.onetrust.com/

• “Shitty First Drafts” by Anne Lamott: https://learning.hccs.edu/faculty/pamela.golden/engl2327/shitty-first-drafts-by-anne-lamott/view

• Story: https://www.amazon.com/Story-Substance-Structure-Principles-Screenwriting/

• Out of Sheer Rage: https://www.amazon.com/Out-Sheer-Rage-Wrestling-Lawrence/

• Station Eleven: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10574236/

• Fitbit: https://www.fitbit.com/global/us/home

• Apple Watch: https://www.apple.com/watch

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Microsoft Clarity—See how people actually use your product | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments | Eco—Your most rewarding app

—

Gustav Söderström is the Co-President and Chief Product and Technology Officer at Spotify. He is responsible for Spotify’s global product and technology strategy, overseeing the product, design, data, and engineering teams. Prior to Spotify, he founded 13th Lab, a startup that was later acquired by Facebook’s Oculus. He also served as the Director of Product and Business Development for Yahoo Mobile and founded Kenet Works, a company focused on community software for mobile phones, which was acquired by Yahoo in 2006. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• How Spotify structures product teams to promote freedom of thought

• Lessons on thinking long-term and navigating negative feedback

• Why Gustav started a podcast and what he’s learned

• How AI has impacted the work PMs, engineers, and designers do within Spotify

• AI-generated music and its impact on artists

• What’s next for Spotify and Spotify Podcasting

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-scaling-spotify-the

—

Where to find Gustav Söderström:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/GustavS

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gustavsoderstrom/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Gustav’s background

(04:08) The various roles Gustav has occupied at Spotify

(06:54) Why Gustav launched a podcast and what he learned

(12:37) How PMs and product teams should think about AI

(21:23) AI-generated music

(26:19) Will AI continue to be a magic trick for products?

(28:27) How Spotify organizes product teams

(34:33) How Spotify operationalized autonomy

(35:45) Why Spotify uses a centralized model for structuring their organization

(43:34) The big bet Spotify took with redesigning its interface, and what they learned

(57:26) How they tested their hypothesis before launch

(1:02:35) Gustav’s “10% planning time” methodology 

(1:03:53) How to bring energy and clarity to your work

(1:08:07) How to systematize deep thinking

(1:10:29) The peeing-in-your-pants analogy 

(1:11:38) Thoughts on how the Swedish culture is portrayed in Succession 

(1:13:30) What’s next for Spotify and Spotify Podcasting

(1:15:52) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/

• Daniel Ek: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-ek-1b52093a/

• Spotify: A Product Story podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3L9tzrt0CthF6hNkxYIeSB

• Spotify’s AI DJ: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2023-02-22/spotify-debuts-a-new-ai-dj-right-in-your-pocket/

• Avicii: https://avicii.com/

• DALL-E: https://openai.com/product/dall-e-2

• Stable Diffusion: https://stability.ai/

• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/

• Brian Chesky: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/

• Succession on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/succession

• Fjällräven: https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us

• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy

• Charlie Munger: The Complete Investor: https://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Munger-Tren-Griffin

• The Mystery of the Aleph: Mathematics, the Kabbalah, and the Search for Infinity: https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Aleph-Mathematics-Kabbalah-Infinity

• Something Deeply Hidden: Quantum Worlds and the Emergence of Spacetime: https://www.amazon.com/Something-Deeply-Hidden

• Helgoland: Making Sense of the Quantum Revolution: https://www.amazon.com/Helgoland-Making-Sense-Quantum-Revolution

• The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World: https://www.amazon.com/The-Beginning-of-Infinity

• The Fabric of Reality: The Science of Parallel Universes—and Its Implications: https://www.amazon.com/The-Fabric-of-Reality

• The Case Against Reality: Why Evolution Hid the Truth from Our Eyes: https://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Against-Reality-audiobook/dp/B07VL5TCVF/ref=sr_1_1

• Gödel’s Proof: https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6dels-Proof-Ernest-Nagel

• The Demon in the Machine: How Hidden Webs of Information Are Solving the Mystery of Life: https://www.amazon.com/Demon-Machine-Information-Solving-Mystery

• Halt and Catch Fire on Apple TV: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/halt-and-catch-fire/umc.cmc.5s15r46uj0wx044tipm2zoh88

• Duolingo: https://www.duolingo.com/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Braintrust—For when you needed talent, yesterday | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments | Rows—The spreadsheet where data comes to life

—

Scott Belsky is an entrepreneur, author, investor, and currently Adobe’s Chief Strategy Officer and EVP of Design and Emerging Products. He founded Behance, an online platform for creative professionals to showcase and discover work, and served as CEO until its acquisition by Adobe. Scott is an early advisor and investor in several businesses at the intersection of technology and design, including Pinterest, Uber, Warby Parker, Airtable, and Flexport. He is also the author of two nationally bestselling books and founded 99U, a publication and conference focused on productivity in the creative world. In today’s episode, we discuss:

* How to strengthen your product sense

* Why you should only do half the things you want

* What it takes to build a successful consumer product

* Why you are probably underinvesting in onboarding

* The future of AI and how to prepare for it

* Advice for founders and PMs who are feeling stuck

* Why resourcefulness will take you further than resources

* Adobe’s current priorities and their exciting path ahead

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-on-building-product-sense

—

Where to find Scott Belsky:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottbelsky

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottbelsky/

• Blog: https://www.implications.com/

• Website: www.scottbelsky.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Scott’s background

(04:50) Why Scott shifted roles at Adobe

(08:29) Advice for PMs looking to build product sense

(10:43) The first mile

(13:18) How to develop more empathy

(16:33) How to build consumer products that work

(20:42) Scott’s philosophy that you should “only do half the things you want to do”

(26:15) Scott’s optimism about how the world will look in five years with AI

(29:44) How AI will impact product teams

(32:55) How the PM role will change as a result of AI

(35:09) How Adobe is leveraging AI tools

(36:59) What the term “golden gut” means

(38:15) Advice for PMs to stay ahead of the new AI trends

(41:02) How to start writing more

(41:49) The messy middle

(47:03) What Scott looks for as an angel investor 

(50:16) Why resourcefulness will take you further than resources 

(52:41) Adobe’s current priorities and the path ahead

(54:58) Lightning round 

—

Referenced:

• Adobe: https://www.adobe.com/

• Behance: https://www.behance.net/

• Casey Winters on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey-winters-pinterest-eventbrite-airbnb-tinder-canva-reddit-grubhub/

• Crafting The First Mile Of Product: https://medium.com/positiveslope/crafting-the-first-mile-of-product-7ed25e8f1027

• Shishir Mehrotra on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-rituals-of-great-teams-shishir-mehrotra-coda-youtube-microsoft/

• Scott’s tweet on only doing half the things you want to do: https://twitter.com/scottbelsky/status/1441469886975279109?s=20

• Matt Mochary on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-fire-people-with-grace-work-through-fear-and-nurture-innovation-matt-mochary-ceo-coach/

• Adobe Firefly: https://www.adobe.com/sensei/generative-ai/firefly

• Howie Liu (CEO at Airtable): https://www.linkedin.com/in/howieliu/

• ChatGPT: https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt

• The Messy Middle: Finding Your Way Through the Hardest and Most Crucial Part of Any Bold Venture by Scott Belsky: https://www.amazon.com/Messy-Middle-Finding-Through-Hardest/dp/0735218072

• Adobe Express: https://www.adobe.com/express

• Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making by Tony Fadell: https://www.amazon.com/Build-Unorthodox-Guide-Making-Things/dp/0063046067

• Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey on Netflix: https://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/Cosmos-A-Spacetime-Odyssey/80004448

• Vinod Khosla’s prediction: https://futurism.com/80-of-it-jobs-can-be-replaced-by-automation-and-its-exciting

• Queue: https://www.queue.co/

• Tome: https://tome.app/

• Kevin Kelly on The Tim Ferriss Show: https://tim.blog/2014/08/29/kevin-kelly/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Microsoft Clarity—See how people actually use your product | Eco—Your most rewarding app | LMNT—Zero-sugar hydration

—

Ayo Omojola is Chief Product Officer at Carbon Health, one of the fastest-growing and most innovative health tech companies in the world. Previously, he was a PM leader at Cash App, where he co-created the Cash Card and scaled it to a nine-figure revenue line for Square. He’s also an angel investor in companies like Mercury, Modern Treasury, Faire, and many others. In this episode, we discuss:

• How Cash App broke through the noise and became a consumer app success story

• Why small teams are better than big ones

• Hard-won lessons on team building and hiring

• Why it’s “criminal” not to connect people in your network to things that they need

• Why you sometimes shouldn’t listen to experts

• The importance of first-principles thinking

• Advice for health tech founders

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/frameworks-for-product-differentiation-team-building-and-thinking-from-first-principles-ayo-omojola-carbon-health-cash-app/#transcript

—

Where to find Ayo Omojola:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/ay_o

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omojola/

• Blog: https://kunle.app/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Ayo’s background

(04:13) The story of how Ayo used Quora for discoverability 

(06:44) The scale of Cash App 

(07:37) What Cash App did well

(10:12) Lessons from building consumer apps 

(13:08) Why it’s so important to be different

(14:08) What Ayo learned from how Square/Block operates

(16:36) How to succeed at building a startup within a startup

(19:06) How Ayo transitioned from fintech to health tech

(22:51) Why Ayo loves hiring founders 

(28:32) Team-building strategies

(32:12) The importance of going deep and challenging assumptions

(36:58) Why you should always ask questions

(38:45) Lessons in leadership

(41:43) Advice for founders in the health-care space

(44:48) What Carbon Health is

(46:58) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Ayo on Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Ayo-Omojola

• Carbon Health: https://carbonhealth.com/

• Cash App: https://cash.app/

• Lob: https://www.lob.com/

• Mailform: https://www.mailform.io/

• Venmo: https://venmo.com/

• PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/us/home

• Apple Cash: https://www.apple.com/apple-cash/

• Square: https://squareup.com/us/en/home/

• Block: https://block.xyz/

• Pinwheel: https://www.pinwheelapi.com/

• The Three-Body Problem: https://www.amazon.com/Three-Body-Problem-Cixin-Liu/dp/0765382032

• Children of Time: https://www.amazon.com/Children-of-Time

• Children of Memory: https://www.amazon.com/Children-Memory-Adrian-Tchaikovsky/

• Children of Ruin: https://www.amazon.com/Children-Ruin-Time-Adrian-Tchaikovsky/

• Stormlight Archive: https://www.amazon.com/Stormlight-Archive-Boxed-Set-Books/

• Fire in the Deep: https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Deep-Robert-J-Miller/

• War of the Worlds on Amazon Prime: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/amzn1.dv.gti.49a287c2-44ed-4ffc-afa0-fab86dd0d31d

• Succession on HBO Max: https://play.hbomax.com/player/urn:hbo:episode:GWukCJAu0e4uHwwEAAAB5

• No Context Succession on Twitter: https://twitter.com/nocontextroyco

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Braintrust—For when you needed talent, yesterday | AssemblyAI—Production-ready AI models to transcribe and understand speech | Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life

—

Jonathan Becker is the founder and president of Thrive Digital, where he and his team have deployed more than $3.5 billion in paid acquisition budgets for companies like Uber, Asana, Square, Tempur-Pedic, and MasterClass. He spent the first part of his career mastering SEO and is a world expert in DTC, lead generation, demand generation, and user acquisition. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Signs that your company is a good fit for paid growth

• Strategies for optimizing ad creatives

• The merits of different marketing channels: paid vs. organic search, TikTok and short-form

• Insights on attribution and how to approach it effectively

• How market conditions and AI impact paid growth

• The crazy story of how Jonathan won Uber as a client

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/mastering-paid-growth-jonathan-becker

—

Where to find Jonathan Becker:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/jzbecker

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanbecker123/

• Website: https://thrivedigital.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Jonathan’s background

(07:25) The crazy story of how Jonathan won Uber as a client

(11:56) Interchangeable terms for “paid growth”

(12:31) Why you shouldn’t put all your eggs in one basket

(16:48) What kind of companies should pursue paid growth

(23:07) Is it possible to reach scale exclusively through paid growth?

(27:07) The evolution of performance marketing

(29:39) Advice for founders choosing between SEO and paid

(32:18) Strategies for optimizing ad creatives

(44:43) Paid vs. organic search, TikTok and short-form

(49:56) Where to spend money in order to drive growth for B2B SaaS

(55:06) Attribution in performance marketing 

(1:04:18) The impact of AI on paid growth

(1:12:52) Advice for early-stage startups on hiring in-house vs. hiring an agency 

(1:17:09) Qualifications to look for in your hires

(1:23:23) How Jonathan won Snapchat as a client

(1:28:55) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Andrew Wilkinson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/awilkinson/

• Garrett Camp: https://www.forbes.com/profile/garrett-camp/

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/

• Grammarly: https://app.grammarly.com/

• Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/en

• Supermetrics: https://supermetrics.com/

• Recast: https://getrecast.com/

• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/

• DALL-E: https://openai.com/product/dall-e-2

• Storyworthy: https://www.amazon.com/Storyworthy-Engage-Persuade-through-Storytelling/dp/1608685489

• Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike: https://www.amazon.com/Shoe-Dog-Memoir-Creator-Nike-ebook/dp/B0176M1A44

• American Kingpin: https://www.amazon.com/American-Kingpin-Criminal-Mastermind-Behind/dp/1591848148

• The Big Short: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1596363/

• White Lotus on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-white-lotus

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Mixpanel—Product analytics that everyone can trust, use, and afford | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments | Braintrust—For when you needed talent, yesterday

—

David Singleton is Chief Technology Officer at Stripe, where he oversees engineering and design teams. Since joining Stripe, David has helped grow the technology org across the U.S. and developed new engineering hubs in Singapore and Dublin as well as Stripe’s fifth hub, remote engineering, across the globe. Before Stripe, he spent 11 years at Google, where he was VP of Engineering, leading product development and coordinating more than 15 different hardware partnerships. In today’s episode, we cover:

• Hiring secrets that set Stripe employees apart

• How to build a product-minded engineering team

• How to operationalize meticulousness

• Strategies for maintaining developer productivity at scale

• The process of “friction logging” used to make better products

• How AI is changing the way engineers work

• Insights for planning and prioritizing at scale

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-culture-of-excellence

—

Where to find David Singleton:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/dps

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidpsingleton/

• Website: https://blog.singleton.io/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) David’s background

(04:22) How Stripe’s unique hiring process has helped them build an incredible team

(12:27) An example of a relentlessly curious and passionate employee

(14:11) Structured hiring loops at Stripe

(16:39) How Stripe built a product-minded engineering culture

(21:56) Stripe’s operating principles 

(25:39) How Stripe uses “friction logging” to build a meticulous product culture 

(32:22) How to operationalize friction logging

(35:02) How to set PMs up for success

(36:53) Stripe’s collaborative approach to product evaluation

(41:17) Advice for presenting to CTOs 

(42:58) How to get better at building products

(45:28) Stripe’s “engineerications” and the importance of getting into the weeds as a leader

(52:03) Auto-testing and other strategies to improve shipping speeds

(59:29) Improving developer productivity

(1:00:54) How AI has impacted the way Stripe builds product 

(1:07:03) Why David is excited about Copilot

(1:09:24) Lessons from managing people

(1:14:30) Planning and prioritization based on first-principles thinking

(1:18:23) Lenny’s feedback from using Stripe

(1:19:14) What’s next for Stripe

(1:22:10) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Stripe: https://stripe.com/

• Jeff Weinstein: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffwweinstein/

• How we use friction logs to improve products at Stripe: https://dev.to/stripe/how-we-use-friction-logs-to-improve-products-at-stripe-i6p

• GitHub Copilot: https://github.com/features/copilot

• High Output Management by Andrew Grove: https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove/dp/0679762884

• Build by Tony Fadell: https://www.amazon.com/Build/dp/1787634116/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0

• Scaling People: Tactics for Management and Company Building by Claire Hughes Johnson: https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-People-Tactics-Management-Building/dp/1953953212/

• Andrej Karpathy on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AndrejKarpathy

• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/home/

• Emily Sands: https://www.linkedin.com/in/egsands/

• Michelle Bu: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellebu/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Rows—The spreadsheet where data comes to life | Braintrust—For when you needed talent, yesterday | Coda—Meet the evolution of docs

—

Carilu Dietrich is a former CMO, most notably the Head of Marketing who took Atlassian public. These days she’s an advisor to CEOs and CMOs of hypergrowth B2B companies and has worked with companies like Miro, Segment, Bill.com, 1Password, Productboard, Sprout Social, Weights & Biases, and more. In today’s episode, we discuss:

* Patterns across the most successful hypergrowth companies

* How to advance in your career, and how to someday become an executive

* How to decide which company to work at

* Advice for navigating the job market during tough times

* How to find and execute new growth opportunities

* Why most CMOs and CPOs get fired, and what we can learn from this

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-achieve-hypergrowth-in-your

—

Where to find Carilu Dietrich:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hypergrowth-advisor/

• Newsletter: www.carilu.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/clu007

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Carilu’s background

(04:28) Habits and behaviors that will help you reach an executive role

(07:15) Why there is no substitute for working hard

(08:15) 5 things you need to do to get to the C-suite

(10:39) Choosing the right company for accelerated career growth

(12:42) Criteria for assessing a phenomenal company

(14:41) Asking better questions and making decisions with energy

(16:05) Advice for finding a job during a recession 

(19:25) The importance of quality products and sustained brand advertising

(24:06) Lessons from successful hypergrowth companies

(28:14) Is word of mouth a necessary growth lever?

(31:31) How to accelerate word-of-mouth marketing

(35:28) Atlassian’s product-led growth strategy and delayed sales team hiring

(39:54) When to hire your first salesperson 

(43:04) Common growth levers and roadblocks 

(47:01) How to build trust between CEOs and CMOs

(49:00) Challenges of C-suite roles in startups

(52:55) Bundling strategies

(57:17) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Tomasz Tunguz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasztunguz/

• Denise Persson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denisepersson/

• Oracle: https://www.oracle.com/

• Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/

• Classy: https://www.classy.org/

• Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/

• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

• Okta’s “Businesses at Work” 2023: https://www.okta.com/businesses-at-work/

• Y U No Use Hipchat billboard: https://techcrunch.com/2011/04/22/y-u-no-have-lame-billboard-hipchat/

• Productboard: https://www.productboard.com/

• Miro: https://miro.com/

• Scott Farquhar: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottfarquhar/

• Elena Verna on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-product-led-sales-elena-verna/

• Tao Te Ching, Stephen Mitchell translation: https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Te-Ching-Laozi/dp/0060812451/ref=asc_df_0060812451/

• How to Win Friends and Influence People: https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/8183227899/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0

• Never Split the Difference: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-audiobook/dp/B01COR1GM2/ref=sr_1_1

• Everything Everywhere All At Once on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/movie/everything-everywhere-all-at-once-fa320000-8cf3-46fc-8c45-df5ec67b71f2

• Tara Brach guided meditations: https://www.tarabrach.com/guided-meditations/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Linear—The new standard for modern software development | Braintrust—For when you needed talent, yesterday | Rows—The spreadsheet where data comes to life

—

Elena Verna is a leading growth expert with over 15 years of experience in tech. She was SVP of Growth at SurveyMonkey and interim CMO at Miro, where she built high-performing teams that drove significant growth. She recently served as interim Head of Growth at Amplitude and currently advises and is a board member for early-stage startups. In today’s podcast, we discuss:

• What product-led sales is

• How product-led sales differs from product-led growth

• Unpacking common acronyms: PQAs, PQs, PQLs, and MQLs

• When and how to consider investing in PLS

• Metrics for identifying qualified accounts

• The team, data, and tooling required for implementing PLS

• Common pitfalls to avoid when adding PLS

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-product-led-sales-elena-verna/#transcript

—

Where to find Elena Verna:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elenaverna

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/elenaverna

• Newsletter: https://elenaverna.substack.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Elena’s background and what she’s doing now

(07:13) Product-led sales (PLS) vs. product-led growth (PLG)

(12:47) How sales solutions can be applied to enterprise-level problems

(15:06) Defining enterprise-level problems 

(17:51) How product-led companies start with PLS

(20:30) When to add sales

(22:36) Two ways to get to PLS

(24:27) Why every sales-led-growth company needs to add PLG

(26:50) Two ways you can own revenue

(28:37) PQAs, PQs, PQLs, and MQLs

(37:17) How to get started adding PLS

(42:01) Metrics to identify PQAs

(47:00) Why sales should be carefully applied 

(49:07) Systems, infrastructure, and tooling

(50:59) The people and resources required for PLS

(53:42) Why you should have a clear ROI for every new hire

(55:05) Why product needs to be accountable for monetization with PLS

(59:57) Revenue-based goals product teams should have

(1:06:28) Common pitfalls startups run into when implementing PLS

(1:09:15) Benchmarks and the amount of time needed for implementing enterprise solutions

(1:12:04) Using onboarding to profile users

(1:13:08) Will AI be the next sales movement?

—

Referenced:

• Elena’s previous episode on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/elena-verna-on-how-b2b-growth-is-changing-product-led-growth-product-led-sales-why-you-should-go-freemium-not-trial-what-features-to-make-free-and-much-more/

• Miro: https://miro.com/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Elena’s PLS funnel diagram: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/elenaverna_b2b-product-led-sales-guide-activity-7052664130763206658-yxLK/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

• Elena’s memes: https://www.elenaverna.com/memes

• Mixpanel Signal reports: https://mixpanel.com/blog/mixpanel-signal-launch/

• Amplitude Compass chart: https://help.amplitude.com/hc/en-us/articles/235147347-The-Compass-chart-discover-your-users-a-ha-moments

• Looker: https://www.looker.com/

• Tableau: https://www.tableau.com/

• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

• Marketo: https://nation.marketo.com/

• Waitlist for PLG course on Reforge: https://www.reforge.com/programs/product-led-growth

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life | Braintrust—For when you needed talent, yesterday | Linear—The new standard for modern software development

—

Varun Parmar is the Chief Product Officer of Miro and has over two decades of experience in the tech industry. Prior to joining Miro, Varun held executive positions as Chief Product Officer at Box and Syncplicity (acquired by Dell EMC) and spent six years in product management at Adobe. He also co-founded Doculus, which was later acquired by Box. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• The importance of empathy and how to foster it

• The “AMPED” structure for cross-functional product teams

• How to move fast and stay ahead of the competition

• Powerful product and design rituals

• How Miro acquired their first 1,000 users

• How Miro successfully added a sales motion

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-how-miro-builds

—

Where to find Varun Parmar:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/vparmar230

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vparmar/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Varun’s background

(04:08) How Miro operates as a cross-cultural product team

(07:22) How applying empathy helped Miro build Miro Talktrack

(11:51) What makes Miro stand out

(17:08) Miro’s AMPED structure

(22:57) The benefit of having product marketing as a part of the cross-functional team

(25:24) How competition affects growth and product strategy

(31:43) Why speed is so important and how to improve it

(34:21) How Miro ensures that their products meet quality standards

(37:19) How to remove blockers

(47:22) Miro’s product development process

(53:34) How OKRs work at Miro

(55:55) The product stack at Miro

(1:01:20) Big bets vs. maintenance and bug fixes at Miro

(1:03:44) The “three horizons” framework

(1:04:30) The importance of accountability

(1:10:46) How Miro got their first 1,000 users

(1:12:33) Other growth levers at Miro

(1:15:53) Adding a sales motion

(1:18:08) Miro AI, and new updates and enhancements coming soon

(1:20:12) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Miro: https://miro.com/

• Miro Talktrack: https://help.miro.com/hc/en-us/articles/7825622973330-Miro-Talktrack-board-recordings-BETA-

• The design sprint: https://www.thesprintbook.com/the-design-sprint

• Jake Knapp on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-knapp/

• Miroverse: https://miro.com/miroverse/

• Amp It Up: Leading for Hypergrowth by Raising Expectations, Increasing Urgency, and Elevating Intensity: https://www.amazon.com/Amp-Unlocking-Hypergrowth-Expectations-Intensity/dp/1119836115

• Reinforcement learning: https://towardsdatascience.com/reinforcement-learning-101-e24b50e1d292

• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

• Confluence: https://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence

• Coda: https://coda.io/

• Looker: https://www.looker.com/google-cloud/

• Productboard: https://www.productboard.com/

• Three horizons framework: https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/strategy-and-corporate-finance/our-insights/enduring-ideas-the-three-horizons-of-growth

• Capterra: https://www.capterra.com/

• Elena Verna on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/elena-verna-on-how-b2b-growth-is-changing-product-led-growth-product-led-sales-why-you-should-go-freemium-not-trial-what-features-to-make-free-and-much-more/

• Barbra Gago on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/category-creation-and-brand-building-barbra-gago-pando-miro-greenhouse-culture-amp/

• FIFA World Cup template: https://miro.com/miroverse/fifa-world-cup-2022-editable-bracket-diagrams/

• When Breath Becomes Air: https://www.amazon.com/When-Breath-Becomes-Paul-Kalanithi/dp/081298840X/

• Hit Refresh: The Quest to Rediscover Microsoft’s Soul and Imagine a Better Future for Everyone: https://www.amazon.com/Hit-Refresh-Rediscover-Microsofts-Everyone/dp/0062652508/

• Ted Lasso on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/ted-lasso/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Sprig—Product insights that drive product success.

—

Ada Chen Rekhi is an executive coach and co-founder of Notejoy. She helps founders scale themselves alongside their teams. She has over a decade of experience leading teams through periods of rapid transition, from the chaos of founding early-stage startups to leadership roles in growing SurveyMonkey and LinkedIn. In today’s podcast, we discuss:

• How utilizing a “curiosity loop” can aid you in decision-making

• A values exercise that can help determine if your life choices align with your personal values

• Ada’s “explore and exploit” framework for making the most of your job opportunities

• The advantages of seeking an executive coach and useful tips on finding one

• Tips for women navigating working in Silicon Valley

• Why it’s so important to provide constructive feedback

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-make-better-decisions-and

—

Where to find Ada Chen Rekhi:

• Website: https://www.adachen.com/

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/adachen

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adachen/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Ada’s background

(03:17) What a curiosity loop is and when to use one

(11:39) Using curiosity loops in your personal life

(14:13) How curiosity loops are like customer advisory councils

(16:30) A values exercise

(25:30) Ada’s “explore and exploit” framework

(31:28) When it’s time to leave your job

(35:37) Logo collecting and why you should optimize for your values instead

(39:30) What triggered Ada to reevaluate her career path

(42:10) Why most people don’t actually need a coach

(44:59) When coaching is valuable

(47:20) How to find the right coach

(51:38) Advice for women in Silicon Valley

(1:00:08) Eating your vegetables—why you need to power through things you find challenging

(1:05:07) Why you should write to crystallize knowledge, rather than for likes

(1:06:54) How to successfully build a company with your spouse

(1:11:07) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• SurveyMonkey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/

• Values exercise: https://www.adachen.com/build-your-inner-scorecard-a-10-minute-exercise-for-better-decisions/

• Clay: https://www.clay.com/

• The Dip: A Little Book That Teaches You When to Quit (and When to Stick): https://www.amazon.com/Dip-Little-Book-Teaches-Stick/dp/1591841666/

• Research on the coaching industry: https://www.adachen.com/an-in-depth-guide-to-executive-coaching-everything-you-need-to-know-part-1/

• The inner scorecard: https://fs.blog/the-inner-scorecard/

• How to find a coach: https://www.adachen.com/a-practical-guide-how-to-find-an-executive-coach-part-3/

• Radical Candor: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Revised-Kim-Scott/dp/1250258405/

• Kim Malone Scott: https://kimmalonescott.com/

• Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion: https://a.co/d/6JycbJo

• Designing Your Life: https://a.co/d/cS2IqG0

• Ted Lasso on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/ted-lasso/

• Star Trek: Strange New Worlds on Paramount+: https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/star-trek-strange-new-worlds/

• Notejoy: https://notejoy.com/

• Captio: https://captio.co/

• Note to Self: https://notetoselfapp.com/

• Arc: https://arc.net/

• Make Time: How to Focus on What Matters Every Day: https://www.amazon.com/Make-Time-Focus-Matters-Every/dp/0525572422

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Mike Maples, Jr. is a legendary early-stage startup investor and a co-founder and partner at Floodgate. He’s made early bets on transformative companies like Twitter, Lyft, Twitch, Okta, Rappi, and Applied Intuition and is one of the pioneers of seed-stage investing as a category. He’s been on the Forbes Midas List eight times and enjoys sharing the lessons he’s learned from his years studying iconic companies. In his new book, Pattern Breakers: Why Some Start-Ups Change the Future, co-authored with Peter Ziebelman, he discusses what he’s found separates startups and founders that break through and change the world from those that don’t. After spending years reviewing the notes and decks from the thousands of startups he’s known over the past two decades, he’s uncovered three ways that breakthrough founders think and act differently. In our conversation, Mike talks about:

• The three elements of breakthrough startup ideas

• Why you need to both think and act differently

• How to avoid the “comparison trap” and “conformity trap”

• The importance of movements, storytelling, and healthy disagreeableness in startup success

• How to apply pattern-breaking principles within large companies

• Mike’s one piece of advice for founders

• Much more

Pre-order Mike’s book here and get a second signed copy for free. Limited copies are available, so order ASAP: patternbreakers.com/lenny.

—

Brought to you by:

• Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth

• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents

• Webflow—The web experience platform

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-find-a-great-startup-idea-mike-maples-jr

—

Where to find Mike Maples, Jr.:

• X: https://x.com/m2jr

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maples/

• Substack: https://greatness.substack.com/

• Website: https://www.floodgate.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Mike’s background

(03:10) The inspiration behind Pattern Breakers

(08:09) Uncovering startup insights

(11:37) A quick summary of Pattern Breakers

(13:52) Coming up with an idea

(15:30) Inflections

(17:09) Examples of inflections

(28:10) Insights

(36:58) The power of surprises

(47:36) Founder-future fit

(55:33) Advice for aspiring founders

(56:41) Living in the future: valid opinions

(55:34) Case study: Maddie Hall and Living Carbon

(58:40) Identifying lighthouse customers

(01:00:53) The importance of desperation in customer needs

(01:03:57) Creating movements and storytelling

(01:24:22) The role of disagreeableness in startups

(01:34:42) Applying these principles within a company

(01:40:43) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Pattern Breakers: Why Some Start-Ups Change the Future: https://www.amazon.com/Pattern-Breakers-Start-Ups-Change-Future/dp/1541704355

• Justin.tv: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin.tv

• Airbnb’s CEO says a $40 cereal box changed the course of the multibillion-dollar company: https://fortune.com/2023/04/19/airbnb-ceo-cereal-box-investors-changed-everything-billion-dollar-company/

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• The Unconventional Exit: How Justin Kan Sold His First Startup on eBay: https://medium.datadriveninvestor.com/the-unconventional-exit-how-justin-kan-sold-his-first-startup-on-ebay-4d705afe1354

• Kyle Vogt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylevogt/

• The State of Telehealth Before and After the COVID-19 Pandemic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9035352/

• The Craigslist Killers: https://www.gq.com/story/craigslist-killers

• The social radar: Y Combinator’s secret weapon | Jessica Livingston (co-founder of Y Combinator, author, podcast host): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-social-radar-jessica-livingston

• Michael Seibel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwseibel/

• The Airbnb Story: How Three Ordinary Guys Disrupted an Industry, Made Billions ... and Created Plenty of Controversy: https://www.amazon.com/Airbnb-Story-Ordinary-Disrupted-Controversy/dp/0544952669

• Scott Cook: https://www.forbes.com/profile/scott-cook/

• Chegg: https://www.chegg.com/

• Aayush Phumbhra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aayush/

• Osman Rashid on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/osmanrashid/

• Okta: https://www.okta.com/

• The Man Who Makes the Future: Wired Icon Marc Andreessen: https://www.wired.com/2012/04/ff-andreessen/

• Peter Ludwig on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterwludwig/

• Qasar Younis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/qasar/

• Paul Allen’s website: https://paulallen.com/

• Louis Pasteur quote: https://www.forbes.com/quotes/6145/

• What was Atrium and why did it fail? https://www.failory.com/cemetery/atrium

• Patrick Collison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickcollison/

• Drew Houston on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drewhouston/

• William Gibson’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/681-the-future-is-already-here-it-s-just-not-evenly

• Maddie Hall on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maddie-hall-76293135/

• Living Carbon: https://www.livingcarbon.com

• Zenefits (now Trinet): https://connect.trinet.com/

• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama

• Steve Wozniak on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wozniaksteve/

• Horsley Bridge Partners: https://www.horsleybridge.com/

• David Swensen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_F._Swensen

• Judith Elsea on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/judithelsea/

• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319

• Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer

• Lyft’s Focus on Community and the Story Behind the Pink Mustache: https://techcrunch.com/2012/09/17/lyfts-focus-on-community-and-the-story-behind-the-pink-mustache/

• Logan Green on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logangreen/

• John Zimmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnzimmer11/

• Storytelling with Nancy Duarte: How to craft compelling presentations and tell a story that sticks: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/storytelling-with-nancy-duarte-how

• Steve Jobs Introducing the iPhone at MacWorld 2007: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qPAY9JqE4

• Jonathan Livingston Seagull: https://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Livingston-Seagull-Richard-Bach/dp/0743278909

• The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-paths-to-power-jeffrey-pfeffer

• Robin Roberts on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-roberts-393a934b/

• Skunkworks: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/who-we-are/business-areas/aeronautics/skunkworks.html

• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

• Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-0-to-1-inside-atlassian-tanguy-crusson

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/

• Vinod Khosla: https://www.khoslaventures.com/team/vinod-khosla/

• Top Five Regrets of the Dying: A Life Transformed by the Dearly Departing: https://www.amazon.com/Top-Five-Regrets-Dying-Transformed-ebook/dp/B07KNRLY1L

• Chase, Chance, and Creativity: The Lucky Art of Novelty: https://www.amazon.com/Chase-Chance-Creativity-Lucky-Novelty/dp/0262511355

• Clay Christensen’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Clayton-M.-Christensen/author/B000APPD3Y

• Resonate: Present Visual Stories That Transform: https://www.amazon.com/Resonate-Present-Stories-Transform-Audiences/dp/0470632011

• Ferrari on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Ferrari-Adam-Driver/dp/B0CNDBN672

• Montblanc fountain pens: https://www.montblanc.com/en-us

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security | LMNT—Zero-sugar hydration | AssemblyAI—Production-ready AI models to transcribe and understand speech

—

Laura Modi is the CEO and co-founder of Bobbie, the first woman-owned, organic infant formula in the U.S. Previously, Laura spent over five years at Airbnb, where she served as Director of Hospitality. Before that, she spent over four years at Google in finance and operations. In today’s podcast, we discuss:

• Biggest lessons from five years at Airbnb

• Lessons about building great culture

• The power of naivete

• From growth to “slowth”: Why Bobbie prioritized existing customers over growth during the height of the formula shortage

• The importance of momentum above all else

• Finding work-life balance with the right infrastructure, support, and frameworks

• The importance of brand, and how to build a brand

• What it takes to win in DTC

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/from-growth-to-slowth-the-making

—

Where to find Laura Modi:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurahughes6/

• Email: Laura@hibobbie.com

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

Note: Lenny is a small angel investor in Bobbie.

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Laura’s background

(04:20) What Laura worked on at Airbnb

(06:22) The director of hospitality role

(07:08) How supporting hosts led to growth at Airbnb

(08:28) Lessons from Airbnb around culture and storytelling that impact how Laura runs Bobbie

(09:44) How Laura builds a strong culture at Bobbie 

(11:45) The risk she took in starting her own company

(13:41) Advice on taking risks

(15:10) What is Bobbie

(17:15) The scale of Bobbie

(17:55) The infant formula shortage crisis 

(19:49) How the growth team pivoted to being the “slowth” team

(23:23) Lessons from the crisis

(25:16) Building a brand

(31:12) Branding internally

(33:58) The time the FDA shut Bobbie down over labeling

(36:45) How Laura balances her busy mom life with being a founder

(40:17) The power of naivete 

(44:03) Why Laura hires optimistic doers

(45:56) Growing a DTC company

(47:14) How Bobbie leverages content, community, and commerce

(49:42) Bobbie’s pie chart of growth

(50:43) Emily Oster’s influence 

(52:40) The importance of momentum and how to create it

(54:15) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Bobbie: https://www.hibobbie.com/

• Davos: https://www.weforum.org/events/world-economic-forum-annual-meeting-2023

• MrBeast’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX6OQ3DkcsbYNE6H8uQQuVA

• Josh Miller on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/competing-with-giants-an-inside-look-at-how-the-browser-company-builds-product-josh-miller-ceo/

• Milk Drunk podcast: https://milk-drunk.com/

• Emily Oster on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ProfEmilyOster

• Cribsheet: https://www.amazon.com/Cribsheet/dp/1788164490

• Great by Choice: https://www.amazon.com/Great-Choice-Uncertainty-Thrive-Despite/dp/1847940889

• Metabolical: The Lure and the Lies of Processed Food, Nutrition, and Modern Medicine: https://www.amazon.com/Metabolical-Processed-Nutrition-Modern-Medicine/dp/0063027712/

• Purple Cow: Transform Your Business by Being Remarkable: https://www.amazon.com/Purple-Cow-Transform-Business-Remarkable/dp/014101640X

• Expecting Better: https://www.amazon.com/Expecting-Better-Conventional-Pregnancy-Wrong/dp/0143125702

• Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity: https://www.amazon.com/Outlive-Longevity-Peter-Attia-MD/dp/0593236599

• Bad Sisters on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/bad-sisters

• NoseFrida the Snotsucker: https://frida.com/products/nosefrida

• Careers at Bobbie: https://www.hibobbie.com/pages/careers

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security | Public—Invest in stocks, treasuries, crypto, and more | LMNT—Zero-sugar hydration

—

Shweta Shrivastava is a Senior Product Leader at Waymo, an autonomous driving technology company backed by Alphabet. Prior to joining Waymo, she was the CPO of Nauto, where she also worked on AI-assisted driver tools. Shweta has worked in product for over 15 years in senior roles at several companies, including Amazon and Cisco. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• How Waymo builds trust with riders

• Product management at Waymo vs software-only products

• The state of self-driving technology

• The importance of being a disruptor and why large companies need to disrupt more

• Underrated product management skills

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/product-lessons-from-waymo-shweta-shrivastava-waymo-amazon-cisco/#transcript

—

Where to find Shweta Shriva

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shshrivastava/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Shweta’s background

(03:47) What Shweta and her team are responsible for at Waymo

(05:30) About the autonomous driving vehicle hardware, software, and simulation tools 

(08:14) Differences in working at Waymo vs. a more traditional software company

(11:02) How Waymo builds trust with riders and the difference between driver assist and fully autonomous

(13:57) An example of how Waymo builds trust with riders

(15:55) The commercial, operational, and system behavior metrics Waymo uses 

(20:38) What are L5 autonomous vehicles and why Shweta thinks L4 vehicles are good enough

(22:53) How to keep investors enthusiastic when it’s a long-term investment

(25:24) Building successful teams and successful products

(26:39) Determining what you’re not building, especially before product-market-fit

(27:49) Why large companies need to disrupt their own models 

(29:33) The most underrated product management skills

(33:07) Tips for getting promoted

(35:19) Where is Waymo and how to try it out

(36:46) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Waymo: https://waymo.com/

• Nauto: https://www.nauto.com/

• Working Backwards: Insights, Stories, and Secrets from Inside Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Working-Backwards-Insights-Stories-Secrets/dp/1250267595

• Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986

• The Innovator's Dilemma: When New Technologies Cause Great Firms to Fail: https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Dilemma-Technologies-Management-Innovation/dp/1633691780

• Top Gun: Maverick on Amazon Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Top-Gun-Maverick-Tom-Cruise/dp/B0B18G8R9B

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Wealthfront—Make smarter stock investments | Lenny’s Job Board—Hire the best product people. Find the best product gigs | Ahrefs—Improve your website’s SEO for free

—

Nikita Miller is a product leader, angel investor, and advisor. She has built and led product teams at companies ranging from early-stage startups to multinationals, and she is currently SVP of Product Management at The Knot Worldwide. Nikita is passionate about scaling product teams to support high-growth businesses and was a product leader at Trello and Atlassian for five years. In today’s podcast, we cover:

• Lessons from building and growing Trello

• Nikita’s roles and responsibilities framework

• How the PM landscape is changing

• Lessons about managing remote teams

• Tactics for driving urgency within teams

• Why working cross-culturally was such a formative experience

—

Find the transcript and references at: ⁠https://www.lennyspodcast.com/driving-alignment-and-urgency-within-teams-work-life-balance-and-the-changing-pm-landscape-nikita-miller-the-knot-trello/#transcript

—

Where to find Nikita Miller:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/nikitadyer

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikitadyer/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Nikita’s background

(03:56) How Nikita helped Trello develop enterprise features 

(09:41) Trello vs. Jira

(10:28) Similarities and differences between building for users at The Knot vs. Trello

(15:02) Pro tips for Trello users

(15:41) Nikita’s roles and responsibilities framework

(21:10) Why scrum masters are disappearing and what shifts are happening on teams

(21:56) Why every team should have a data scientist embedded in it

(23:27) The proper cadence for the rules and responsibilities framework, and problems around execution

(25:27) Outcomes and output

(28:34) The importance of urgency, and how to cultivate a sense of urgency

(29:52) How to determine if your team is moving quickly enough

(31:03) Prioritization between big bets and optimizations

(31:29) Questions Nikita asks to understand her team’s speed 

(33:30) Changes in the field of product management

(36:42) Advice for people who want to get into product

(38:40) Why being a PM is hard, and thoughts on work-life balance

(43:03) How to manage remote teams and how to do successful, short, in-person meetups

(47:59) The importance of having overlapping work hours and onboarding in person

(49:09) The advantages of working in different cultures 

(52:58) The question Nikita finds most useful

(55:07) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Disclosure: I am a Wealthfront client and I have received non-cash compensation for the testimonial in this episode.

Brought to you by Amplitude—Build better products | Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life | Ahrefs—Improve your website’s SEO for free

—

Hila Qu is an Executive in Residence at Reforge as well as a renowned growth advisor, angel investor, and published author (her book about growth was named one of the top 10 business books of 2018 in China). Previously, she served as the Director of Growth at GitLab, where she implemented and scaled their PLG motion, and VP of Growth at Acorns, scaling them from 1 million to 5 million users. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• The importance of having both a product-led and a sales-led motion for companies of all sizes

• A step-by-step process for implementing PLG

• Common pitfalls of layering on PLG

• How to audit your existing funnel

• Conversion, activation, and retention tactics

• Structuring your growth organization from day one, and as it scales

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-adding-a-plg

—

Where to find Hila Qu:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/HilaQu

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilaqu/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Hila’s background

(03:26) The outcome of writing guest posts for Lenny’s Newsletter

(05:12) Why companies should have PLG and sales

(07:58) What PLG is and why it’s so popular

(09:41) Zoom, an example of a PLG company

(11:24) Common pitfalls in adding a PLG motion

(16:06) The spectrum of when PLG makes sense

(20:04) What you need to be successful in a product-led growth strategy

(24:52) The first step to adding a PLG motion

(30:11) What GitLab does and how the sales funnel and PLG funnel work there

(34:07) Mapping out the funnel

(35:29) Finding leverage and other next steps

(38:24) What an aha moment is and conducting an audit

(47:30) Activation and conversion 

(52:17) Why you should start with activation, and who is doing it well

(55:24) Retention, the messy part of the funnel

(1:00:34) How Hila made an impact on retention at Acorns

(1:03:03) The two buckets of data 

(1:04:56) Tools for implementing a PLG motion

(1:08:47) The importance of data 

(1:10:20) Tips to get started, and why you need to have good data first

(1:12:10) How to do a data audit

(1:15:04) Building a PLG team

(1:22:40) The core growth squad

(1:27:51) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Hila’s guest post on Lenny’s Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/five-steps-to-starting-your-plg-motion

• Ravi Mehta on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/building-your-product-strategy-stack-ravi-mehta-tinder-facebook-tripadvisor-outpace/

• Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/

• GitLab: https://about.gitlab.com/

• Lauryn Isford on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/mastering-onboarding-lauryn-isford-head-of-growth-at-airtable/

• Acorns: https://signup.acorns.com/

• PostHog: https://posthog.com/

• Mixpanel: https://mixpanel.com/

• Pendo: https://go.pendo.io/

• Optimizely: https://www.optimizely.com/

• Eppo: https://www.geteppo.com/

• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

• Clearbit: https://clearbit.com/

• ZoomInfo: https://www.zoominfo.com/

• Endgame: https://www.endgame.io/

• Pocus: https://www.pocus.com/

• Pace: https://www.paceapp.com/

• Toplyne: https://www.toplyne.io/

• Crystal Widjaja on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-scrappily-hire-for-measure-and-unlock-growth-crystal-widjaja-gojek-and-kumu/

• Redshift: https://aws.amazon.com/redshift/

• The Almanack of Naval Ravikant: A Guide to Wealth and Happiness: https://www.amazon.com/Almanack-Naval-Ravikant-Wealth-Happiness-ebook/dp/B08FF8MTM6

• How Women Rise: https://www.amazon.com/How-Women-Rise-Habits-Holding/dp/1847942253/

• 硅谷增长黑客实战笔记 (Hila’s best-selling book on growth): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BZC8L78?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_ND87BRFMB0CMWBEVB747

• The Wandering Earth II: https://wellgousa.com/films/wandering-earth-ii

• The Three-Body Problem: https://www.amazon.com/Three-Body-Problem-Cixin-Liu/dp/0765382032

• Lululemon yoga pants: https://shop.lululemon.com/c/women-pants/yoga/

• ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/chat

• Someday: https://www.amazon.com/Someday-Alison-McGhee/dp/1416928111

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Amplitude—Build better products | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments | Ahrefs—Improve your website's SEO for free

—

Casey Winters is a longtime and legendary advisor and operator. He’s worked with companies like Airbnb, Faire, Canva, Whatnot, Thumbtack, Tinder, and Reddit and until recently was the Chief Product Officer at Eventbrite, where he managed the PM, design, research, and growth marketing teams. Before Eventbrite, he led growth and product teams at Pinterest and Grubhub. In today’s episode, we discuss what Casey calls the “zero interest rate phenomenon” product manager and how to avoid becoming one. He provides valuable insights on thinking outside popular frameworks, shipping products efficiently, and avoiding overreliance on user research. We explore the three types of network effects, how to leverage them, and how to break someone else’s network effect. Finally, Casey shares his contrarian approach to interviewing product managers and his thoughts on the future of PM roles with AI.

—

Find the full transcript at: Zhttps://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey

—

Where to find Casey Winters:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/onecaseman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseywinters/

• Blog: https://caseyaccidental.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Casey’s background

(03:36) What Casey is up to

(05:24) Why the CPO position is frequently short-lived

(07:26) What Casey learned in his role as CPO of Eventbrite

(10:15) The “zero interest rate phenomenon” product manager

(12:17) Advice for thinking outside common frameworks

(18:35) When to bring in research

(21:16) What Whatnot does

(21:59) Casey’s approach to interviewing PMs 

(23:29) Red flags in interview responses

(24:27) The future of product management with AI

(27:47) Founder intuition vs. team expertise

(33:33) How to influence founders

(37:17) Adding the delivery driver app at Grubhub

(40:00) Network effects

(43:10) Why Zillow is a sticky product

(44:05) How Grubhub’s network effect got taken over by DoorDash and Uber Eats

(51:47) Don’t underestimate the competition

(54:43) SaaS adding marketplace and vice versa

(01:02:30) Defining marketplaces

(1:03:34) What Substack is nailing

(1:05:43) Tips for B2C subscription startups

(1:13:15) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Casey Winters on Lenny’s Podcast previously: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within-your-company-casey-winters-eventbrite/

• Whatnot: https://www.whatnot.com/

• The 700-calorie breakfast you should eat if you want to live forever, according to futurist Ray Kurzweil: https://www.businessinsider.com/what-ray-kurzweil-eats-to-live-forever-2016-4

• The Way of the Gun on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/movie/the-way-of-the-gun-0fc9590c-3f85-48ab-96e9-1da1b9695065

• Notion AI: https://www.notion.so/product/ai

• Zapier: https://zapier.com/

• Founder intuition vs. team expertise vs. customer expertise: https://caseyaccidental.com/founder-intuition-team-expertise/

• Erika Warren on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erika-warren/

• Alyssa Ravasio (Hipcamp) on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssa-ravasio-23114717/

• Marketplace supply strategy: comprehensive, exclusive, or curated: https://a16z.com/2021/03/31/marketplace-supply-strategy/

• Nassim Taleb on Twitter: https://twitter.com/nntaleb

• The Innovator’s Dilemma: The Revolutionary Book That Will Change the Way You Do Business: https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Dilemma-Revolutionary-Change-Business/dp/0062060244

• OpenTable: https://www.opentable.com/

• Booking.com: https://www.booking.com/

• Faire: https://www.faire.com/

• How to increase your retention: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-increase-your-retention-issue

• The Goal: A Process of Ongoing Improvement: https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Process-Ongoing-Improvement/dp/0884271951

• Thinking, Fast and Slow: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555/r

• Profit from the Core: A Return to Growth in Turbulent Times: https://www.amazon.com/Profit-Core-Return-Growth-Turbulent/dp/1422131114/

• Party Down on Starz: https://www.starz.com/us/en/series/party-down/2011

• The Last of Us on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-last-of-us

• Station Eleven on HBO Max: https://www.hbomax.com/series/urn:hbo:series:GYZWoOQ6F9cLDCAEAAABP

• Kicking and Screaming on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/70052286

• Raven by Kelela on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/06uhdSmIYrWRkdnAPjcRcT

• Optical Delusion by Orbital on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/2jQbFspnSh7erex6RDKQGJ

• Stakes Is High by De La Soul on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/3jlC2uhYNrhikZXLviEnpu

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Coda—Meet the evolution of docs | Rows—The spreadsheet where data comes to life | Lenny’s Job Board—Hire the best product people. Find the best product gigs.

—

Kevin Aluwi is the co-founder and former CEO of Gojek. With over 2.7 million drivers and over 3 billion orders completed, Gojek is the biggest startup in Indonesia and all of Southeast Asia. In today’s podcast, Kevin shares the story of how Gojek overcame endless obstacles—including being underfunded, being unable to send drivers payment, and the local motorcycle mafia coming after their drivers. We cover the importance of brand, the value of doing the hard things, how to be super-scrappy, and helpful tips on building a tech company outside of Silicon Valley.

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/taxi-mafias-cash-vaults-and-100-mom

Where to find Kevin Aluwi:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/kaluwi

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaluwi/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Gojek: https://www.gojek.com/en-id/

• WeChat: https://www.wechat.com/

• Sequoia: https://www.sequoiacap.com/

• eFishery: https://efishery.com/en/

• What You Do Is Who You Are: How to Create Your Business Culture: https://www.amazon.com/What-You-Do-Who-Are/dp/0062871331

• How Brands Grow: What Marketers Don’t Know: https://www.amazon.com/How-Brands-Grow-What-Marketers/dp/0195573560/

• The Menu on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/movies/the-menu

• Cyberpunk Edgerunners on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81054853

• Arc: https://arc.net/

• Steam Deck: https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Kevin’s background

(05:00) How Gojek got started and the current scale

(08:35) Some of the services that Gojek currently offers or has offered

(09:37) Kevin’s thoughts on super-apps

(15:36) The importance of brand

(23:08) How to create branding with consistency across copy and design

(26:53) Challenges Gojek had in the early days that required scrappiness

(33:03) Why Kevin doesn’t believe in moats as a durable solution, and the value of doing hard things

(37:30) How Gojek hired private security to keep their drivers safe

(39:38) The value of founders doing and understanding multiple roles within the company

(44:12) How Kevin’s failed finance career led him to take a bet on building tech in Indonesia

(47:30) Tips on building a tech company outside of Silicon Valley 

(52:09) What the market is like in Indonesia 

(55:42) What’s next for Kevin

(57:41) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by AssemblyAI—Powerful AI models to transcribe and understand speech | Public—Invest in stocks, treasuries, crypto, and more | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

—

Lulu Cheng Meservey was formerly head of comms at Substack (where I host my newsletter and podcast) and is currently the Executive Vice President of Corporate Affairs and Chief Communications Officer at Activision Blizzard. She also writes one of my favorite newsletters, “Flack,” where she shares tactical advice for company comms, PR, and messaging. In today’s episode, we dive deep into the world of PR and comms. We discuss why taking risks is crucial, how to gain attention as an underdog, and why it’s important to have a super-specific audience. Lulu outlines several frameworks I’d never heard of before, including a concentric circles framework for identifying your audience, the cultural erogenous zones, and even a physics-based framework for comms.

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/navigating-comms-and-pr-lulu-cheng

Where to find Lulu Cheng Meservey:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lulumeservey

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lulu-cheng-meservey/

• Newsletter: https://www.getflack.com/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• “Binders full of women”: Mitt Romney’s four words that alienated women voters: https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2012/oct/17/binders-full-of-women-romneys-four-words

• Bill Bishop’s newsletter on Substack: https://www.sinocism.com/

• Hamish McKenzie on Twitter: https://twitter.com/hamishmckenzie

• The Network State: How to Start a New Country: https://www.amazon.com/Network-State-How-Start-Country-ebook/dp/B09VPKZR3G

• How to increase virality: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/increasing-virality

• Ryan Petersen on Twitter: https://twitter.com/typesfast

• Brian Armstrong on Twitter: https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong

• Palmer Luckey on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey

• Pirate Wires: https://www.piratewires.com/

• NYX: https://www.nyxcosmetics.com/

• Gates of Fire: An Epic Novel of the Battle of Thermopylae: https://www.amazon.com/Gates-Fire-Novel-Battle-Thermopylae/dp/055338368X

• The Last of Us on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-last-of-us

• Notion: https://www.notion.so/

• Lex: https://lex.page/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Lulu’s background

(04:36) What helps an idea spread

(06:17) Mitt Romney’s “binders full of women”

(07:19) Advice for coming up with contagious phrasing

(08:36) Lulu’s esoteric reference that left her Twitter followers confused

(11:08) The importance of taking risks, and Lulu’s thread on standing for free speech

(12:53) An example of another sticky phrase

(14:40) The cultural erogenous zones framework

(16:08) How Kamala Harris made people care about education

(17:29) How to get attention as the underdog

(20:25) How Substack used the concentric circles framework to spread information

(21:32) Understanding the layers in those concentric circles

(25:44) How to get started figuring out your concentric circles

(27:03) An example of aligning messaging with people’s values 

(28:19) Lulu’s mathematical formula framework for comms for a purpose

(28:54) A physics-based framework for comms

(35:56) How Balaji Srinivasan used the concentric circles approach with his book The Network State

(39:46) The importance of a super-specific audience

(41:12) Reasons your comms are failing

(42:40) Why you should focus on one direct communication channel at first

(46:58) Why not every founder needs to be on Twitter

(48:02) Who LinkedIn works better for

(49:23) Examples of messaging with a human voice and hopping on trends quickly

(51:11) Reasons for direct comms 

(53:52) How to get started setting up a direct channel

(56:09) Why consistent, good content is better than trying to go viral

(59:28) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Writer—Generative AI for the enterprise | Dovetail—Bring your customer into every decision | Linear—The new standard for modern software development

—

Josh Miller is the CEO and co-founder of The Browser Company, where he helped build Arc, my go-to web browser. In today’s episode, we get an inside look at the unique structure and values of The Browser Company and how their company culture has helped them land some of the best talent in tech. Josh shares ways that his company embraces experimentation, including their “optimizing for feelings” approach to building, and explains why extreme transparency is at the forefront of everything they do.

Special invite link to skip the waitlist: https://arc.net/gift/lenny

Where to find Josh Miller:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/joshm

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-miller-b31259106/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Early access to Arc: https://arc.net/gift/lenny

• The Browser Company: https://thebrowser.company/

• Arc: https://arc.net/

• Hursh Agrawal on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hurshagrawal/

• Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/

• Scott Belsky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottbelsky/

• Notes on Roadtrips: https://thebrowser.company/values/

• Shahed Khan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/_shahedk

• Paper by FiftyThree:  https://www.hellobrio.com/blog/digital-drawing-paper-fiftythree

• Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/

• Peter Vidani on Twitter: https://twitter.com/pter

• The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/

• Ellis Hamburger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellishamburger/

• Airbnb’s Snow White project: https://uxdesign.cc/how-airbnb-proved-that-storytelling-is-the-most-important-skill-in-design-15d04ac71039

• General Magic: https://www.generalmagicthemovie.com/

• Linear: https://linear.app/

• Raycast: https://www.raycast.com/

• Cron: https://cron.com/

• Thrive Capital: https://thrivecap.com/

• Tuple: https://tuple.app/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Harold and the Purple Crayon: https://www.amazon.com/Harold-Purple-Crayon-Crockett-Johnson/dp/0062086529

• Seeing Is Forgetting the Name of the Thing One Sees: https://www.amazon.com/Seeing-Forgetting-Name-Thing-Sees/dp/0520256093/

• God Save Texas: A Journey into the Soul of the Lone Star State: https://www.amazon.com/God-Save-Texas-Journey-State/dp/0525520104

• The Last of Us on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-last-of-us

• Adam Curtis documentaries on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLStWlBRkr0N_aYjPmbrrjm_rsstpkUBLc

• Notion: https://www.notion.so/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Josh’s background

(03:56) Arc and the metrics they use to track growth

(04:42) Arc’s retention numbers

(08:22) Josh’s product-building philosophy and why he believes in optimizing for feelings

(18:57) How The Browser Company’s values create a culture that allows them to ship so quickly

(22:46) The “Notes on Roadtrips” doc about values

(27:48) How Josh is able to hire such amazing talent

(37:29) The good and bad of building in public

(45:16) Some of the odd teams at The Browser Company and why Josh calls it a prototype-driven culture

(46:01) The membership team

(48:07) The storytelling team

(52:00) Why The Browser Company doesn’t have traditional PMs

(54:07) A case for adding PMs

(57:32) The role of data, even in a company that optimizes for feelings

(58:30) Airbnb’s Snow White project

(1:02:14) How impactful moments in Josh’s life influenced values at The Browser Company

(1:03:08) How the film General Magic has inspired Josh

(1:04:32) The value of novel names

(1:06:50) Why The Browser Company’s approach works for Arc

(1:12:47) Why you need to nail latency and why Josh loves Tupl

(1:14:33) The shift to cloud computing and the ultimate vision at The Browser Company

(1:23:15) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life | Dovetail—Bring your customer into every decision | Writer—Generative AI for the enterprise

—

Christina Wodtke is an author, Stanford University professor, and speaker who teaches strategies for building high-performing teams. She’s also the author of Radical Focus, which some consider the de facto guide to OKRs. In today’s episode, we dive into OKRs and how they can be used to help your team achieve better results. Christina shares her expertise on crafting OKRs, how she uses them in her personal life, and common mistakes you should avoid when you sit down to write your own. She discusses effective goal setting and outlines a systematic approach to achieving key results. Finally, Christina gives some specific tips on how to improve your storytelling and drawing skills and explains why it’s smart to set ambitious goals.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-okrs-christina

Where to find Christina Wodtke:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/cwodtke

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinawodtke/

• Website: https://eleganthack.com/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• OKR worksheet template: http://eleganthack.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/OKR_Worksheet.pdf

• Yahoo’s peanut butter memo: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB116379821933826657

• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable: https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Fable/dp/0787960756/

• Radical Focus: Achieving Your Most Important Goals with Objectives and Key Results: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Focus-Achieving-Important-Objectives/dp/0996006087

• Pencil Me In: https://www.amazon.com/Pencil-Me-Christina-Wodtke-ebook/dp/B075Z8J35G?

• The Back of the Napkin: Solving Problems and Selling Ideas with Pictures: https://www.amazon.com/Back-Napkin-Expanded-Problems-Pictures/dp/1591842697/ref=sr_1_1

• The Minto Pyramid Principle: https://www.barbaraminto.com/

• Lane Shackleton’s guest post on Lenny’s Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-coda-builds-product

• The Product Trio by Teresa Torres: https://www.producttalk.org/2021/05/product-trio/

• Ken Norton’s website: https://www.bringthedonuts.com/about/

• The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth: https://www.amazon.com/Fearless-Organization-Psychological-Workplace-Innovation/dp/1119477247

• The Overstory: https://www.amazon.com/Overstory-Novel-Richard-Powers/dp/039335668X/

• Cloud Atlas: https://www.amazon.com/Cloud-Atlas-Novel-David-Mitchell/dp/0375507256

• Black Panther: Wakanda Forever: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9114286/

• The Team That Managed Itself: A Story of Leadership: https://www.amazon.com/Team-that-Managed-Itself-Leadership-ebook/dp/B07ZG5Y689

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Christina’s background

(04:54) How Christina uses OKRs to manage her personal life

(07:42) The purpose of OKRs

(16:15) Mission, vision, roadmaps, and OKRs

(20:57) How strategy ties in

(22:39) Why OKRs should be kept simple, and the ideal way to express key results

(23:45) The importance of customer satisfaction and why you need a qualitative researcher

(24:58) Common mistakes people make when writing OKRs

(26:14) An example of writing OKRs for an online magazine about interior design

(29:28) The importance of repetition

(33:17) The 5 whys

(36:40) Why you should start OKRs with your best multi-disciplinary team

(38:44) Christina’s book, Radical Focus

(40:26) The importance of storytelling and drawing (even badly!)

(43:21) Tips to become a better storyteller

(44:29) Using the Minto method for storytelling

(46:02) The cadence of OKRs and the importance of celebrations

(51:09) A different kind of approval process to get OKRs done more efficiently

(53:01) Why the focus on learning is more important than grading

(54:29) Why you should set ambitious goals

(57:47) Where to start

(1:00:48) The overemphasis of UX in product management education and the importance of business sense

(1:03:01) Advice for people seeking a career in product management

(1:05:44) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security | Dovetail—Bring your customer into every decision | LMNT—Zero-sugar hydration

—

Aarthi Ramamurthy and Sriram Krishnan are founders, angel investors, and product leaders who host the podcast Aarthi and Sriram’s Good Time Show. They have both held leadership roles at major technology companies including Meta, Twitter, Snap, Microsoft, and Netflix. In today’s episode, we dive into how and why to build your personal brand, how to deal with impostor syndrome, and stories from Aarthi’s time at Clubhouse and Sriram’s time working with Zuck. Aarthi and Sriram share their lessons from past failures, their experience building communities, and their techno-optimism, and Sriram offers his hot take on the Jobs to Be Done framework.

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/hot-takes-and-optimism-from-techs

Where to find Sriram Krishnan and Aarthi Ramamurthy:

• Aarthi’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/aarthir

• Sriram’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/sriramk

• Good Time Show Twitter: https://twitter.com/aarthisrirampod

• Good Time Show website: https://www.aarthiandsriram.com/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Naval Ravikant on Twitter: https://twitter.com/naval

• Marc Andreessen on Twitter: https://twitter.com/pmarca

• Clubhouse: https://www.clubhouse.com/

• Eugene Wei’s Status as a Service: https://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2019/2/19/status-as-a-service

• Kylie Jenner on Snapchat: https://www.snapchat.com/add/kyliejenner

• The Rock on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therock/

• Cristiano Ronaldo on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cristiano

• Charli D’Amelio on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@charlidamelio

• Addison Rae on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@addisonre

• The founder of TikTok’s speech: https://ludlow.notion.site/Alex-Zhu-TikTok-4631f80fdcc4423a845e145e807d8e2b

• Naval’s network tweet: https://twitter.com/naval/status/847134295600746496?lang=en

• Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

• How Duolingo reignited user growth: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-duolingo-reignited-user-growth

• Hunter Walk on impostor syndrome: https://hunterwalk.com/2023/03/01/imposter-syndrome-is-definitely-misnamed-might-be-a-condition-of-privilege-has-a-fascinating-history/

• On Reviews: https://boz.com/articles/reviews

• Jobs to Be Done framework: https://jobs-to-be-done.com/jobs-to-be-done-a-framework-for-customer-needs-c883cbf61c90

• First-principles thinking: https://fs.blog/first-principles/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Sriram and Aarthi’s backgrounds

(04:16) How Sriram and Aarthi got Elon Musk on their podcast

(08:47) Reflections on Clubhouse and other social networks

(14:14) Why Aarthi and Sriram are optimistic about tech

(25:53) Why you should put yourself out there and build your personal brand

(27:09) Why you should build a network with authentic relationships, and how to do it

(28:56) Sriram’s curated communities

(31:20) What you need to get right when starting a community

(38:35) Why everyone who wants to should create content

(44:22) Why you shouldn’t try to project expertise when you’re still learning

(47:54) Dealing with impostor syndrome, and why you should lean into your strengths

(54:01) Transitioning to a role of authority

(57:30) What Sriram learned about effective management from Mark Zuckerberg

(1:01:20) The biggest failure Aarthi had, and why you shouldn’t fall for fads

(1:02:08) Sriram’s lesson from building mobile

(1:09:21) Why Sriram hates the Jobs to Be Done framework

(1:18:06) Advice for immigrants

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, the collaborative design platform that has revolutionized how product teams work. In my first-ever live podcast, recorded at Figma Config, Dylan and I dig into:

• How intuition and product taste drive Dylan’s decision-making

• The challenge of keeping things simple

• Dylan’s thoughts on the future of product management

• Lessons from Figma’s early days

• How Figma built their initial user base

• Dylan’s journey from intern to CEO of a 1,000+-person company

• The future of design tools and AI

—

Brought to you by:

• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents

• User Testing—Human understanding. Human experiences.

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/dylan-field-live-at-config

—

Where to find Dylan Field:

• X: https://x.com/zoink?lang=en

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:11) Welcoming Dylan Field

(02:36) Highlights and surprises from Config

(06:58) The philosophy of design

(08:01) Raccoon feet and muffin hands

(09:57) Building and refining intuition and product taste

(12:50) How to influence leadership

(16:14) The role of product managers

(21:12) The future of product management

(22:20) The importance of simplicity in design

(26:10) The long road to Figma’s launch

(27:44) Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs

(29:07) Knowing when it’s time to ship

(30:39) Early user acquisition strategies

(35:50) Spotting trends and future innovations

(39:20) Reflections on leadership and growth

(43:16) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Mihika Kapoor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mihikakapoor/

• Rick Rubin on the Creative Act—60 Minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE1teB5bN-w

• Figma pages: https://help.figma.com/hc/en-us/articles/360038511293-Create-and-manage-pages

• Leading through uncertainty: A design-led company—Brian Chesky (Config 2023): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkfijg7s76o

• An inside look at how Figma builds product | Yuhki Yamashita (CPO of Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-how-figma-builds

• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

• An inside look at Figma’s unique GTM motion | Claire Butler (first GTM hire): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-figmas-unique-bottom

• Zigging vs. zagging: How HubSpot built a $30B company | Dharmesh Shah (co-founder/CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-30-years-of-building

• Nadia Singer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nadiasinger/

• Sho Kuwamoto on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shokuwamoto/

• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/

• Tim Van Damme on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-van-damme-maxvoltar/

• Coda: https://coda.io/

• Shishir Mehrotra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shishirmehrotra/

• Websim: https://websim.ai/

• eToys.com commercial (from Dylan’s childhood acting career): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Y92aCmmbU

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Public—Invest in stocks, treasuries, crypto, and more | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments | Writer—Generative AI for the enterprise

—

Laura Schaffer is the brand-new VP of Growth at Amplitude. Prior to this role, she spent over 10 years leading product management and growth teams at Twilio, Bandwidth, and Rapid. In today’s episode, we talk about the role of experimentation and data in growth, and Laura shares stories of big wins from her time leading growth teams. She explains how customer insights helped her uplevel her career and how she (surprisingly) thinks about qualitative versus quantitative data. We wrap up our conversation by discussing where the best ideas come from and what you need to know if you’re selling to developers.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/career-frameworks-ab-testing-counterintuitive

Where to find Laura Schaffer:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauraschaffer/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Elena Verna on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/elena-verna-on-how-b2b-growth-is-changing-product-led-growth-product-led-sales-why-you-should-go-freemium-not-trial-what-features-to-make-free-and-much-more/

• Bandwidth: https://www.bandwidth.com/

• Twilio: https://ahoy.twilio.com/

• Jeff Lawson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffiel/

• The Surprising Power of Online Experiments: https://hbr.org/2017/09/the-surprising-power-of-online-experiments

• Reforge: https://www.reforge.com/

• Online Experimentation at Microsoft: https://ai.stanford.edu/~ronnyk/ExPThinkWeek2009Public.pdf

• The Simple Path to Wealth: Your Road Map to Financial Independence and a Rich, Free Life: https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Path-Wealth-financial-independence/dp/1533667926

• Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones: https://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Habits-Proven-Build-Break/dp/0735211299/

• James Clear on The Tim Ferriss Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/648-james-clear-atomic-habits-simple-strategies-for/id863897795?i=1000592431628

• The Great British Baking Show on PBS: https://www.pbs.org/food/shows/great-british-baking-show/

• Hotjar: https://www.hotjar.com/

• Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/

• Builder: https://www.builder.io/

• ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/

• Lenny Bot: https://www.lennybot.com/

• Segment: https://segment.com/

• Senior Growth PM, Monetization, at Amplitude: https://boards.greenhouse.io/amplitude/jobs/6636704002

• Lead Growth PM at Builder: https://boards.greenhouse.io/builder/jobs/4814755004?gh_src=30cfda2d4us

• Growth PM at Rapid: https://jobs.lever.co/rapidapi/8d2611d1-6463-4919-9817-31f61e730831

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Laura’s background

(04:15) How to carve your own career path, and an example from Bandwidth

(05:50) Laura’s career growth framework

(10:18) The value of customer insights

(12:25) The “voice of the customer” report

(16:14) Leaning into your strengths

(18:16) The experiment that shifted the way Laura thinks about friction

(20:20) Questions that improved Twilio’s onboarding and conversion rate

(28:53) Thinking about the psyche of your users

(31:26) The hot dog analogy for burying “scary stuff”

(33:58) Why it’s better to be iterative and why experiments fail

(36:21) Saving money by validating fast

(41:58) Where the best ideas come from

(49:51) Experimentation lessons

(52:54) The amount of time a growth team needs to be successful 

(54:43) The big change at Twilio that led to tens of millions of dollars

(58:41) The need for both PLG and enterprise, and how Amplitude plans to tap into PLG

(1:05:42) What it’s like to serve developers

(1:11:16) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Linear—The new standard for modern software development | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security. | Dovetail—Bring your customer into every decision.

—

Claire Hughes Johnson is the former COO at Stripe, which she helped scale from a small startup to the legendary company it is today. She also spent close to 10 years at Google, where she filled several executive roles, including VP of Global Online Sales and Director of Sales and Ops for Gmail, YouTube, Google Apps, and AdWords. Claire shares invaluable insights from her upcoming book, Scaling People, on how to successfully build and scale organizations. We talk about the importance of building self-awareness, and Claire gives tons of tactical advice on how to say things that are hard to say, as well as how to improve your internal communications, and so much more.

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-scaling-stripe-tactics

Where to find Claire Hughes Johnson:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/chughesjohnson

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-hughes-johnson-7058/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Scaling People: Tactics for Management and Company Building: https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-People-Tactics-Management-Building/dp/1953953212

• John Collison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbcollison/

• Patrick Collison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickcollison/

• Discord: https://discord.com/

• Toast: https://pos.toasttab.com/

• High Growth Handbook: Scaling Startups from 10 to 10,000 People: https://www.amazon.com/High-Growth-Handbook-Elad-Gil/dp/1732265100

• Myers-Briggs personality types: https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/

• Enneagram types: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions

• Disc assessment: https://www.discprofile.com/what-is-disc

• Conscious Business: How to Build Value through Values: https://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Business-Build-through-Values/dp/1622032020/

• Reid Hoffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reidhoffman/

• Eeke de Milliano on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-foster-innovation-and-big-thinking-eeke-de-milliano-retool-stripe/

• Running an effective meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIiaFW874q8

• Gokul’s S.P.A.D.E. framework: https://coda.io/@gokulrajaram/gokuls-spade-toolkit

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Claire’s background

(04:47) How writing Scaling People helped Claire crystallize learnings

(07:58) How she got started writing her book

(11:11) Advice that changed the way she operates

(15:18) The lack of job titles at Stripe

(19:01) Scaling your organizational structure

(23:46) What founders need to think about in the early days

(26:38) Personal operating principles

(29:04) How to crystallize your own values to gain self-awareness

(34:29) Advice for saying uncomfortable things

(37:12) Being an explorer, not a lecturer

(43:57) Come back to the operating system

(47:17) Organizational structure using Claire’s house metaphor

(50:50) Why some chaos is normal

(52:45) Founding documents you need

(58:30) The components of a company’s operating system 

(1:01:31) Finding the right cadence

(1:04:48) COOs and which types of businesses need them

(1:11:30) Advice on scaling quickly

(1:13:56) The importance of internal communications

(1:16:03) Running effective meetings

(1:17:17) Advice for aligning and making decisions as a manager

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Linear—The new standard for modern software development. | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments. | Pando—Always-on employee progression.

—

Gustaf Alströmer is a Group Partner at Y Combinator, where he’s worked with over 600 startups in his 6.5 years there. He’s also a fellow Airbnb alumnus and even started the original Airbnb growth team. In today’s podcast, Gustaf discusses common reasons startups fail and how he helps coach founders on avoiding these mistakes. He explains the attributes that the best founders tend to have, and signs that a company has potential. We also cover the growing space of climate tech, for which Gustaf has a huge passion and where he’s already had an incredible impact. He shares some key areas of innovation and investment in climate tech, some notable companies he’s helped fund, and where he sees potential going forward.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-working-with-600-yc

Where to find Gustaf Alströmer:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/gustaf

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gustafalstromer/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Airbnb tweet: https://twitter.com/gustaf/status/1580330162725347330

• Startups Are an Act of Desperation: https://blog.eladgil.com/p/startups-are-an-act-of-desperation

• The 18 Mistakes That Kill Startups: http://www.paulgraham.com/startupmistakes.html

• Do Things That Don’t Scale: http://paulgraham.com/ds.html

• Marc Andreessen: https://a16z.com/author/marc-andreessen/

• How to Talk to Users: https://youtu.be/z1iF1c8w5Lg

• How to Get Your First Customers: https://youtu.be/hyYCn_kAngI

• Pachama: https://pachama.com/

• Request for Startups: Climate Tech: https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/rfs-climatetech

• Climate Draft: https://www.climatedraft.org/

• Seabound: https://www.seabound.co/

• Fleetzero: https://www.fleetzero.com/

• Unravel Carbon: https://www.unravelcarbon.com/

• CarbonChain: https://www.carbonchain.com/

• Sinai: https://www.sinaitechnologies.com/

• Enode: https://enode.com/

• Statiq: https://www.statiq.in/

• Heart Aerospace: https://heartaerospace.com/

• The 100% Solution: A Plan for Solving Climate Change: https://www.amazon.com/100-Solution-Solving-Climate-Change/dp/1612198384

• Without a Doubt: How to Go from Underrated to Unbeatable: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1982147903?tag=simonsayscom

• Emily in Paris on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81037371

• Everything Everywhere All at Once on Showtime: https://www.sho.com/titles/3493875/everything-everywhere-all-at-once

• How to Apply and Succeed at Y Combinator, by Dalton Caldwell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yiOcCPvyNE

• Y Combinator on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ycombinator

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Gustaf’s background

(04:15) What made Airbnb so special

(07:21) How culture interviews and hiring founders contributed to Airbnb’s success

(10:31) Motivations for starting companies

(13:17) Why Gustaf helps founders understand their motivations

(14:13) Reasons you should not start a company

(16:03) The magic that happens at YC office hours

(20:45) Why founders in coworking spaces should schedule time to talk 

(21:36) Questions Gustaf asks founders

(22:26) Common reasons startups fail

(26:23) Getting over the fear of rejection 

(27:57) The importance of solving for pain points and why you should watch users

(34:21) The value of having a technical co-founder

(37:42) How founders without technical expertise have succeeded

(40:46) Attributes of the most successful founders

(44:57) Why it’s hard to predict success and how YC advises against failures

(46:59) Indications of potential for success

(50:03) Speed vs. quality

(51:11) Confidence vs. humility

(52:48) Execution and tactics vs. strategy

(54:36) Autocratic vs. collaborative-driven founders

(56:27) Why you should focus on product first

(59:03) The economic incentive for investing in climate tech

(1:02:16) The clean-tech bubble of 2008

(1:04:59) Why you don’t need to be super-scientific to work in climate tech

(1:06:51) Areas of climate tech and promising companies

(1:12:27) What’s going well in the climate-change space

(1:16:49) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life: https://miro.com/lenny | Coda—Meet the evolution of docs: https://coda.io/lenny | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny

—

Annie Pearl is the Chief Product Officer at Calendly. Previously, she was Chief Product Officer at Glassdoor, as well as Director of Product Management at Box. She was named one of the most influential women in Bay Area business by the San Francisco Business Times. In today’s episode, Annie shares three paths into product management and advice on how to get your foot in the door. She also gives us an inside look at how Calendly’s product teams are structured, how they transitioned from solely PLG to adding a sales team and unlocking new growth levers, how they do planning, and much more.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-scenes-of-calendlys-rapid

Where to find Annie Pearl:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anniepearl/

• Email: Annie.Pearl@calendly.com

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• How to send a calendar invite with Calendly: https://calendly.com/blog/how-to-send-a-calendar-invite

• Google’s APM program: https://careers.google.com/programs/apm/

• The 15 Best Associate and Rotational Product Manager Programs: https://medium.com/agileinsider/product-management-digest-apm-3c2631683139

• Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X/

• Confluence: https://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence

• Aha: https://www.aha.io/

• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/

• Loom: https://www.loom.com/

• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

• Pendo: https://go.pendo.io/

• Tope Awotona on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bawotona/

• The Skip podcast: https://www.skip.community/

• Skip Community on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/skip-community-for-cpos/

• Nikhyl Singhal on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhyl/

• Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don’t: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Great-Some-Companies-Others/dp/0066620996

• Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products: https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-How-Build-Habit-Forming-Products/dp/0241184835/

• 20VC podcast: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/

• Sing 2 on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81475311

• Miro: https://miro.com/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Annie’s background

(03:50) How to send a Calendly invite without feeling awkward

(06:04) How to transition to product work from a non-technical career

(09:53) APM programs

(10:52) The characteristics of internal-transfer PMs

(13:26) How Calendly structures product teams 

(14:57) Why Annie hired a Head of Design

(16:58) How Calendly structures product teams

(19:07) OKRs at Calendly

(21:02) Changes made at Calendly to improve execution and shipping

(22:45) The challenges with narrowing Calendly’s customer base and adding sales 

(25:21) Where 70% of new Calendly users come from

(26:17) The transition from PLG to sales

(29:23) How to build a great relationship with your sales team

(31:52) Planning and prioritization at Calendly

(38:14) Strategy documents at Calendly

(39:39) Calendly’s product stack

(40:21) How Calendly got their first 1,000 users 

(43:36) The surprising new growth levers at Calendly

(46:05) Fun traditions

(48:43) “Focus wisely” and other aspects of Calendly’s culture

(52:07) Learnings from Box and Glassdoor

(54:57) The Skip Community

(58:10) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Amplitude—Build better products: https://amplitude.com/ | OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster: https://oneschema.co/lenny | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny

—

Upasna Gautam is a product manager at CNN Digital, where she works closely with editorial staff and journalists to build their internal content management system. She is also a longtime meditation coach and a board member of the News Product Alliance. In today’s episode, we delve into how product teams are structured and operate at CNN, how CNN uses OKRs and roadmaps, and the unique challenges and opportunities in designing a digital product for journalists. Upasna also shares a story about her team’s product saving the day during the 2020 elections and gives listeners a free mini lesson on meditation.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/an-inside-look-at-how-cnn-builds-product-upasna-gautam/#transcript

Where to find Upasna Gautam:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/UpasnaGautam

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/upasnagautam/

• Website: https://linktr.ee/upasnagautam

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Insight Timer: https://insighttimer.com/

• News Product Alliance: https://newsproduct.org/

• Mindfulness in Plain English: https://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-English-Bhante-Henepola-Gunaratana/dp/0861719069

• How to Win Friends & Influence People: https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034/

• The New Product Development Game: https://hbr.org/1986/01/the-new-new-product-development-game

• The Mandalorian on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/series/the-mandalorian/3jLIGMDYINqD

• Ted Lasso on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/ted-lasso/umc.cmc.vtoh0mn0xn7t3c643xqonfzy

• Everything Everywhere All at Once on Showtime: https://www.sho.com/titles/3493875/everything-everywhere-all-at-once

• Andor on Disney+: https://disneyplusoriginals.disney.com/show/andor

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Upasna’s background

(03:13) How Upasna’s meditation background helps her thrive in the chaotic world of product at CNN

(08:55) How PMs at CNN build in buffer time and create backup plans when breaking news hits 

(10:26) How the product team works with editorial staff and journalists at CNN

(15:22) The product org structure at CNN Digital 

(19:02) OKRs at CNN

(20:10) How CNN’s product teams do long-term planning

(21:37) Why Upasna involves the tech lead in all product discovery/product review meetings

(23:51) How to boost morale with remote teams

(27:39) Balancing maintenance with building new stuff

(29:21) The time CNN.com went down in 2020 and the new platform saved the day

(31:21) How the product team rehearses breaking news

(34:22) The superpowers Upasna and her team have cultivated

(35:50) Why meditation and honing your communication skills help you excel as a PM

(42:01) How to get started on the path of meditation

(44:39) The work News Product Alliance is doing and how to get involved

(51:54) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny | Amplitude—Build better products: https://amplitude.com/ | Dovetail—Bring your customer into every decision: https://dovetailapp.com/lenny

—

Patrick Campbell is the founder and CEO of ProfitWell, which he bootstrapped and sold for over $200 million. In this special episode, we explore 10 big ideas from Patrick, including tips for hiring employees who align with your company values, creating winning pricing and retention strategies, determining the right time to raise money, and more. Whether you’re just starting out or looking to scale your SaaS business, this must-listen episode offers practical and actionable advice that will help you avoid missteps and think differently.

Find the transcript for this episode and all past episodes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/10-lessons-from-bootstrapping-a-200m

Where to find Patrick Campbell:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/Patticus

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickccampbell/

• Email: pc@patticus.com

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Douglas Atkin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/doatkin/

• Patrick Campbell’s guest post on Lenny’s Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/saas-pricing-strategy/comments

• ProfitWell: https://www.profitwell.com/

• The Cadence: How to Operate a SaaS Startup: https://medium.com/craft-ventures/the-cadence-how-to-operate-a-saas-startup-436aa8099e8

• Edward Snowden on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Snowden

• The Flywheel: https://www.hubspot.com/flywheel

• High Output Management: https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove/dp/0679762884

• Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don’t Have All the Facts: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Bets-Making-Smarter-Decisions/dp/0735216355

• Powerful: https://www.amazon.com/Powerful/dp/1939714206/r

• The West Wing on HBOMax: https://www.hbomax.com/series/urn:hbo:series:GX5nwgQDNJZ6aoQEAAAHJ

• Notion: https://www.notion.so/

• Descript: https://www.descript.com/

• Coda: https://coda.io/

• KTool: https://ktool.io/

• Tweet Hunter: https://tweethunter.io/

• Apple Watch Ultra: https://www.apple.com/apple-watch-ultra/

• Loom: https://www.loom.com/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Patrick’s background

(05:12) Building a team

(07:38) How ProfitWell handled a conflict using their guiding principle, the most charitable interpretation

(10:41) Why new hires need to fit in with the company culture

(12:19) The bootstrapping vs. funding debate

(13:38) When founders should think about raising funds 

(18:08) When and how companies should make pricing changes to their products or services

(23:46) Strategic retention and tactical retention, and why the latter is often missed 

(28:48) Why people don’t want to pay for a SaaS analytics tool

(29:56) The importance of mission metrics for shipping

(34:42) First-principle thinking, the “5 whys,” and Patrick’s alternative approach

(40:21) The importance of frequent customer research

(43:15) Simple strategies for doing customer research

(46:13) Understanding your competitors

(51:06) Why veterans make great hires 

(54:08) Why local strategies are more effective for some companies

(59:21) Why the middle of the funnel is the biggest opportunity 

(1:04:54) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Amplitude—Build better products: https://amplitude.com/ | Lenny’s Job Board—Hire the best product people. Find the best product gigs: https://www.lennysjobs.com/talent | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny

—

Christine Itwaru is a longtime product operations leader at Pendo and more recently has taken on the larger role of Principal Strategist there. Before leading product ops, Christine spent 12 years in product management. In this episode, we delve into the rapidly growing field of product ops and discover how Christine is part of shaping the role industry-wide. She helps us define the role of product operations, what kind of person would be a good fit for the product ops role, when your company would benefit from product ops, and what red flags to look for if you decide to go down this path. 

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/understanding-the-role-of-product-ops-christine-itwaru-pendo/#transcript

Where to find Christine Itwaru:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/christineitwaru

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christineitwaru/

• Website: https://theproductheart.com/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Ben Williams on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.podpage.com/lennys-podcast/how-snyk-built-a-product-led-growth-juggernaut-ben-williams-vp-of-product-at-snyk/

• Pendo: https://go.pendo.io/

• Marty Cagan on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-nature-of-product-marty-cagan-silicon-valley-product-group/

• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

• Looker: https://www.looker.com/

• Tray: https://tray.io/

• Zapier: https://zapier.com/

• Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/

• Casey Winters on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within-your-company-casey-winters-eventbrite/

• Inspired: How to Create Tech Products Customers Love: https://www.amazon.com/INSPIRED-Create-Tech-Products-Customers/dp/1119387507/

• Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don’t: https://www.amazon.com/Leaders-Eat-Last-Together-Others/dp/1591848016/

• The Product-Led Organization: Drive Growth by Putting Product at the Center of Your Customer Experience: https://www.amazon.com/Product-Led-Organization-Putting-Customer-Experience/dp/1119660874

• Product Roadmaps Relaunched: How to Set Direction while Embracing Uncertainty: https://www.amazon.com/Product-Roadmaps-Relaunched-Direction-Uncertainty/dp/149197172X/

• The Product Experience podcast: https://www.mindtheproduct.com/the-product-experience/

• Matilda the Musical: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3447590/

• Rise on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/rise/6Yv1uRnw2uAJ

• Miro: https://miro.com/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Seismic: https://seismic.com/

• Gong: https://www.gong.io/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Christine’s background

(02:34) How working with Ben Williams led Christine to Lenny’s Podcast

(05:02) The role of product ops in product management

(07:31) How 2019 became “the summer of product ops”

(11:19) The different ways product ops can assist product teams

(15:50) How Pendo used product ops to bring teams together and share data

(18:15) Where user research fits in 

(22:39) How product ops are being utilized—and not exclusively in B2B companies

(24:47) How to convince a product leader that you need product ops

(27:41) Why customer experience is the core of a PM’s role

(29:47) Who is doing the work of the product ops person before that role is created

(31:37) Christine’s response to Casey Winters’s take on ops teams

(37:40) Signs your company could benefit from a product ops team

(30:56) How a lack of transparency led to Pendo adding product ops

(46:11) The line between product ops and product marketing

(47:30) Who might be a good fit for a product ops role

(53:39) Red flags for product ops roles (that apply to any role) 

(54:08) How product teams are structured at Pendo

(57:18) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Public—Invest in stocks, treasuries, crypto, and more: https://public.com/lenny | Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life: https://miro.com/lenny | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/

—

Lauryn Isford is a product growth leader and practitioner, who most recently led Growth at Airtable, and is about to start something new 🤫. In today’s episode, we get into the many tactics Lauryn has learned about optimizing onboarding flows. Lauryn describes how overhauling Airtable’s onboarding led to a 20% increase in activation rate, the company’s unique segmentation process, and why North Star metrics are so vital. Lauryn also shares her framework for a PLG growth funnel, and how to use a reverse trial to leverage the benefits of both freemium products and trials. If you’re looking to find growth opportunities within your funnel, this episode is for you.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/mastering-onboarding-lauryn-isford

Where to find Lauryn Isford:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurynisford

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurynisford/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days: https://www.amazon.com/Sprint-Solve-Problems-Test-Ideas/dp/1442397683

• Blue Bottle coffee: https://bluebottlecoffee.com/

• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/

• How to determine your activation metric: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-determine-your-activation

• Elena Verna on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/elena-verna-on-how-b2b-growth-is-changing-product-led-growth-product-led-sales-why-you-should-go-freemium-not-trial-what-features-to-make-free-and-much-more/

• The Ride of a Lifetime: Lessons Learned from 15 Years as CEO of the Walt Disney Company: https://www.amazon.com/Ride-Lifetime-Lessons-Learned-Company/dp/0399592091/

• Rocket Men: The Daring Odyssey of Apollo 8 and the Astronauts Who Made Man’s First Journey to the Moon: https://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Men-Odyssey-Astronauts-Journey/dp/081298871X

• Fifth & Mission podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fifth-mission/id1457274965

• The White Lotus on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-white-lotus

• Belfast: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12789558/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Miro: https://miro.com/

• Zoelle Egner on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/what-pr-is-and-isnt-good-for-according-to-zoelle-egner-head-of-marketing-and-growth-at-box/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Lauryn’s background

(03:48) Lauryn’s spicy take on experimentation

(06:44) Why doing the right thing for customers should be the ultimate goal

(08:54) How Airtable rolled out Airtable Forms with A/B testing

(11:38) The importance of onboarding

(13:15) Airtable’s onboarding revamp and how it increased activation by 20%

(16:57) How Airtable’s guided onboarding wizard improved the user experience

(18:00) Why reducing reliance on tooltips can be a good idea for complicated products

(20:06) The importance of meeting users where they are

(22:52) How Airtable segmented users by learning styles

(24:10) Airtable’s activation metrics

(27:22) How the week-four multi-user collaboration metric was operationalized

(30:45) Other metrics Airtable used

(34:34) When Airtable changed their North Star metric 

(36:26) How much time to give a North Star metric before pivoting

(38:05) Trials vs. freemium and what a reverse trial is

(42:51) How to have self-serve options when you’re not fully self-serve

(46:04) Onboarding experiences that aren’t very helpful

(47:31) How to help users understand features

(48:42) Why user education is more important than pushing premium features

(50:03) The role of guardrail metrics 

(51:40) Lauryn’s PLG growth funnel framework

(54:26) How Lauryn’s framework helps teams communicate more clearly

(55:57) How Lauryn structured the growth team

(57:53) B2B growth as an emerging space 

(1:00:18) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster: https://oneschema.co/lenny | Amplitude—Build better products: https://amplitude.com/ | Coda—Meet the evolution of docs: https://coda.io/lenny

—

Keith Yandell started at DoorDash as Chief Legal Officer and during his tenure has also led the HR, Customer Support, Marketing, and now Corporate Development teams. In today’s episode, we talk about leadership, and how to lead with empathy. We dig into DoorDash’s unique culture and touch on the WeDash program, which requires every employee to complete four deliveries a year in order to better understand the customer experience. Keith shares his “How to Work with Keith” document and discusses the importance of openness in the workplace. He also gives some tips for founders on hiring, engaging with legal, and how to make big decisions when teams are competing for resources.

Where to find Keith Yandell:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdyandell

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-yandell-2a947432/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Gokul Rajaram on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/gokul-rajaram-on-designing-your-product-development-process-when-and-how-to-hire-your-first-pm-a-playbook-for-hiring-leaders-getting-ahead-in-you-career-how-to-get-started-angel-investing-more/

• Ryan Sokol on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-sokol-00b2333/

• Tony Xu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xutony/

• About WeDash: https://doordash.news/culture/wedash-doordash-employee-program-how-does-it-work/

•  Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484

•  How to be successful working with Keith doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12yTpBZFab6SPAruSpSD6CB_qLOu5L8kpQ4CCmX9pDx4/edit?mode=html

• Kofi Amoo-Gottfried on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kofi-amoo-gottfried-3802bb3/

• Tia Sherringham on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiasherringham/

• Amp It Up: Leading for Hypergrowth by Raising Expectations, Increasing Urgency, and Elevating Intensity: https://www.amazon.com/Amp-Unlocking-Hypergrowth-Expectations-Intensity/dp/1119836115

• Ted Lasso’s quote on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TedLasso/status/1426932132417576967

• Rajat Shroff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajatshroff/

• Micah Moreau on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/micahmoreau/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Keith’s background

(03:41) The time Keith asked a potential hire if he was an a*****e

(06:39) DoorDash culture

(08:40) The WeDash program

(13:16) How Keith was able to lead so many different teams at DoorDash

(16:08) Hiring the best experts and then getting out of their way

(18:21) The “How to Work with Keith” document

(21:52) How and why Keith helps his employees land new jobs

(27:22) How he leverages empathy to unify board members

(29:26) The importance of assigning a decision maker and a time horizon for the decision

(31:15) One-on-ones with Keith, and the T3 B3 framework from Uber

(33:12) How to encourage constructive criticism from employees

(34:49) What it’s like to lead in tough times and why it can actually make your org stronger

(37:42) How creating urgency compounds gains

(39:11) IPO day at DoorDash

(40:20) The characteristics of top founders

(41:33) How the pandemic impacted DoorDash

(44:40) Advice for new parents that is applicable in business 

(45:24) The difficulty of gaining funding

(46:58) Advice for founders struggling with fundraising

(48:02) How Keith developed a strong relationship with the VP of Product and Design

(50:27) Building an effective BD team within a product company

(52:36) How to engage with legal teams

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Amplitude—Build better products: https://amplitude.com/ | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/ | Pando—Always-on employee progression: https://www.pando.com/lenny

—

Marily is a computer scientist and an AI Product Leader currently working for Meta’s reality labs, and previously at Google for 8 years. In 2014 she completed a PhD in Machine Learning. She is also an Executive Fellow at Harvard Business School and she has taught numerous courses, actively teaching AI Product Management on Maven and at Harvard. Marily joins us in today's episode to shed light on the role of AI in product management. She shares her insights on how AI is empowering her work, and why she believes that every Product Manager will be an AI Product Manager in the future. We also discuss why PM’s should learn a bit of coding, where they can learn it, and best practices for working with data scientists. Marily shares some insight into building her AI Product Management course and also why she full-heartedly believes you should also create your own course.

Where to find Marily Nika:

• Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/marilynika

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marilynika/

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/MarilyNikaPM

• Website: https://bio.link/marilynika

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• The Download newsletter: https://www.technologyreview.com/topic/download-newsletter/

• TLDR newsletter: https://tldr.tech/

• ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/auth/login

• MidJourney: https://midjourney.com/home/

• Whisper: https://whisper.ai/

• Machine Learning Specialization course: https://www.coursera.org/specializations/machine-learning-introduction

• Career Foundry: https://careerfoundry.com/

• Coding Dojo: https://www.codingdojo.com/

• Building AI Products—For Current & Aspiring Product Managers course on Maven: https://maven.com/marily-nika/technical-product-management

• arXiv: https://arxiv.org/

• Marginal Revolution blog: https://marginalrevolution.com/

• Automl: https://cloud.google.com/automl

• Inspired: How to Create Tech Products Customers Love: https://www.amazon.com/INSPIRED-Create-Tech-Products-Customers/dp/1119387507

• You Look Like a Thing and I Love You: How Artificial Intelligence Works and Why It’s Making the World a Weirder Place: https://www.amazon.com/You-Look-Like-Thing-Love/dp/0316525227

• The Adventures of Women in Tech Workbook: A Life-Tested Guide to Building Your Career: https://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Women-Tech-Workbook/dp/1646871022

• Boz to the Future podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/boz-to-the-future/id1574002430

• The White Lotus on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-white-lotus

• Lensa: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/lensa-ai-photo-video-editor/id1436732536

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Marily’s background

(03:20) How Marily stays informed about the latest developments in AI

(04:46) What is overhyped and underhyped in AI right now

(05:59) How Marily uses ChatGPT for work

(08:25) Why product managers will be AI product managers in the future

(11:16) How to get started using AI

(14:12) When not to use AI

(15:47) How much data do you need for AI to work properly?

(17:01) When should companies develop their own AI tools?

(18:35) What an AI model is and how it is trained

(21:25) How Google demonstrated the ability of AI to translate a conversation in real time

(23:02) Why AI will not replace PMs

(23:48) A case for learning to code

(26:21) Where to learn to code

(27:40) How to become a strong AI PM

(29:25) Challenges that AI PMs face

(31:16) Getting leadership on board with investing in AI

(33:10) How PMs will work with data scientists and AI

(35:29) Marily’s AI course

(39:12) AutoML and how a renewable-energy company used it to improve its turbine maintenance procedure

(40:31) How Marily built her course and the modifications she has made

(42:53) Why you should create your own course

(44:08) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Jessica Livingston is a co-founder of Y Combinator, the first and most successful startup accelerator. Y Combinator has funded over 5,000 companies, 200 of which are now unicorns, including Airbnb, Dropbox, DoorDash, Stripe, Coinbase, and Reddit. Jessica played a crucial role in YC’s early success, when she was nicknamed the “social radar” because of her uncanny ability to quickly evaluate people—an essential skill when investing in early-stage startups. She’s also the host of the popular podcast The Social Radars, where she interviews billion-dollar-startup founders, and the author of the acclaimed book Founders at Work, which captures the origin stories of some of today’s most interesting companies. In our conversation, we discuss:

• How Jessica gained the affectionate title of the “social radar”

• Why defensive founders are a red flag

• How to develop your social radar

• What she looks for in founders during YC interviews

• How YC’s early inexperience in angel investing led to the batch model

• Her favorite stories from interviews with Airbnb, Rippling, and more

• Lessons learned from hosting her own podcast

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth

• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-social-radar-jessica-livingston

—

Where to find Jessica Livingston:

• X: https://x.com/jesslivingston

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicalivingston1/

• Podcast: https://www.thesocialradars.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Jessica’s background

(02:42) Thoughts on being under-recognized

(07:52) Jessica’s superpower: the social radar

(15:11) Evaluating founders: key traits and red flags

(21:00) The Airbnb story: a lesson in hustle and determination

(25:57) A YC success story

(28:26) The importance of earnestness

(32:45) Confidence vs. defensiveness

(34:43) Commitment and co-founder disputes

(37:46) Relentless resourcefulness

(40:00) Jessica’s social radar: origins and insights

(43:24) Honing her social radar skills

(45:44) Conviction and scams: a Y Combinator story

(46:50) The interview process: challenges and insights

(48:20) Operationalizing founder evaluation

(49:38) Advice for building social radar skills

(52:08) The “Reading the Mind in the Eyes” quiz

(55:19) Jessica’s podcast: The Social Radars

(01:00:34) Lessons from podcasting and interviewing

(01:09:58) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Paul Graham’s post about Jessica: https://paulgraham.com/jessica.html

• Paul Graham on X: https://x.com/paulg

• Robert Tappan Morris: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Tappan_Morris

• Trevor Blackwell on X: https://x.com/tlbtlbtlb

• Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

• “The Founders” examines the rise and legend of PayPal: https://www.economist.com/culture/2022/02/19/the-founders-examines-the-rise-and-legend-of-paypal

• Patrick Collison on X: https://x.com/patrickc

• John Collison on X: https://x.com/collision

• Brian Chesky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/

• Nate Blecharczyk on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blecharczyk/

• Joe Gebbia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jgebbia/

• Airbnb’s CEO says a $40 cereal box changed the course of the multibillion-dollar company: https://fortune.com/2023/04/19/airbnb-ceo-cereal-box-investors-changed-everything-billion-dollar-company/

• Parker Conrad on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parkerconrad/

• Zenefits: https://connect.trinet.com/hr-platform

• Goat: https://www.goat.com/

• Eddy Lu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eddylu/

• Drew Houston on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drewhouston/

• Arash Ferdowsi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arashferdowsi/

• Lessons from 1,000+ YC startups: Resilience, tar pit ideas, pivoting, more | Dalton Caldwell (Y Combinator, Managing Director): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-1000-yc-startups

•Bitcoin launderer pleads guilty, admits to massive Bitfinex hack: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/03/new-york-man-admits-being-original-bitfinex-hacker-during-guilty-plea-in-dc-to-bitcoin-money-laundering.html

• Paul Graham’s tweet with the facial recognition test: https://x.com/paulg/status/1782875262855663691

• SmartLess podcast: https://www.smartless.com

• Jason Bateman on X: https://x.com/batemanjason

• Will Arnett on X: https://x.com/arnettwill

• Sean Hayes on X: https://x.com/seanhayes

• The Social Radars with Tony Xu, Co-Founder & CEO of DoorDash: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Ja-tony-xu-co-founder-ceo-of-doordash

• The Social Radars with Brian Chesky: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/JW-brian-chesky-co-founder-ceo-of-airbnb

• The Social Radars with Patrick and John Collison: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Kx-patrick-john-collison-co-founders-of-stripe

• The Social Radars with Brian Armstrong: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/K3-brian-armstrong-co-founder-and-ceo-of-coinbase

• The Social Radars with Emmett Shear: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/KM-emmett-shear-co-founder-of-twitch

• The Social Radars with Paul Graham: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/JV-paul-graham-co-founder-of-y-combinator-and-viaweb

• The Social Radars with Adora Cheung: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/L0-adora-cheung-co-founder-of-homejoy-instalab

• Founders at Work: Stories of Startups’ Early Days: https://www.amazon.com/Founders-Work-Stories-Startups-Early/dp/1430210788

• Startup School: https://www.startupschool.org/

• The Social Radars with Parker Conrad: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Ky-parker-conrad-founder-of-zenefits-rippling

• Rippling: https://www.rippling.com/

• Carry on, Jeeves: https://www.amazon.com/Carry-Jeeves-Dover-Thrift-Editions/dp/0486848957

• Very Good, Jeeves: https://www.amazon.com/Very-Good-Jeeves-Wooster-Book-ebook/dp/B0051GST06

• Right Ho, Jeeves: https://www.amazon.com/Right-Ho-Jeeves-P-Wodehouse-ebook/dp/B083FFDNHN/

• Life: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Keith-Richards-ebook/dp/B003UBTX72/

• My Name Is Barbra: https://www.amazon.com/My-Name-Barbra-Streisand/dp/0525429522

• Clarkson’s Farm on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Clarksons-Farm-Season-1/dp/B095RHJ52R

• Schitt’s Creek on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/schitts-creek-a2e7a946-9652-48a8-884b-3ea7ea4de273

• Yellowstone on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-tv/yellowstone

• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama

• Justin Kan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinkan/

• Alexis Ohanian on X: https://x.com/alexisohanian

• Steve Huffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shuffman56/

• Breaking News: Condé Nast/Wired Acquires Reddit: https://techcrunch.com/2006/10/31/breaking-news-conde-nastwired-acquires-reddit/

• Charles River Venture: https://www.crv.com/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life: https://miro.com/lenny | Notion—One workspace. Every team: https://www.notion.com/lennyspod | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/

—

Eeke de Milliano is the Head of Product at Retool and a former product lead at Stripe. In this episode, we discuss how any team can become an innovation machine. We talk about how a culture of writing led to a team of rigorous thinkers at Stripe. We cover tactics to breed innovative teams that you can replicate at your own company: From embracing retrospectives to creating systems that give individuals the "permission to think big". Eeke shares her framework for prioritizing resources between core products, strategic initiatives, and big bets, and how it helped Retool launch three new products in a year. She also gives a comprehensive overview of the right level of process for companies of different sizes, and how to build a talent portfolio.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-foster-innovation-and-big

Where to find Eeke de Milliano:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/eekedm

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eeke-de-milliano-3b05a629/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Snir Kodesh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/snirkodesh/

• Stripe: https://stripe.com/

• Stripe’s operating principles: https://stripe.com/jobs/culture

• Retool: https://retool.com/

• Brian Krausz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bkrausz/

• Retool Workflows: https://retool.com/products/workflows/

• Retool Mobile: https://retool.com/products/mobile

• Retool Database: https://retool.com/products/database

• Ian Leslie on “Being Human in the Age of AI”: https://www.econtalk.org/ian-leslie-on-being-human-in-the-age-of-ai/

• Claire Hughes Johnson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-hughes-johnson-7058/

• Scaling People: Tactics for Management and Company Building: https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-People-Tactics-Management-Building/dp/1953953212

• Linear: https://linear.app/

• Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life: https://www.amazon.com/Bird-Some-Instructions-Writing-Life/dp/0385480016/

• Lex Fridman Podcast: https://lexfridman.com/podcast/

• EconTalk: https://www.econlib.org/econtalk/

• The White Lotus on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-white-lotus

• Gong: https://www.gong.io/product-demo/

• FullStory: https://www.fullstory.com/

• Rewind: https://www.rewind.ai/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Eeke’s background

(03:36) Eeke’s time at Stripe

(08:58) Why Stripe didn’t add PMs until hitting around 100 employees

(11:03) Why being a PM is not for everyone

(12:22) Stripe’s internal culture guide

(17:36) Stripe’s operating principles 

(20:52) Why isn’t every team innovative?

(23:21) Retool’s “crazy ideas” list 

(27:27) How to cultivate a failure-safe space 

(28:47) Fostering risk-taking and innovation

(32:03) The three products Retool launched this year

(35:06) How Retool was able to launch several products at once

(38:00) The amount of process needed through different stages of growth

(45:37) Why you should build products for your “best users”

(47:34) Build the scooter, not the axle (why you should make something simple but functional first)

(48:37) The 70-20-10 framework for investing resources and time

(49:57) Finding time for maintenance and bug fixes

(50:59) How Retool’s PMs keep close to customers

(53:29) Building product in a sales-led org vs. product-led growth 

(56:10) The product talent portfolio: how to build diverse, balanced teams

(58:43) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by OneSchema—import CSV data 10x faster: https://oneschema.co/lenny; Pando—always-on employee progression: https://www.pando.com/lenny; and Lenny’s Job Board—hire the best product people, find the best product gigs: https://www.lennysjobs.com/talent.

—

Zoelle Egner is best known for her time at Airtable (currently valued at $11 billion), where she was the 11th employee and built and led the initial marketing and customer success teams. Currently she’s the Head of Marketing and Growth at Block Party, a company that designs consumer tools for online safety and anti-harassment. In today’s episode, we explore the marketing strategies that helped Airtable punch above its weight and build an established brand. We also dig into how Airtable was able to find its first super-users, how customer success played a key role in getting early traction, and the do’s and don’ts for marketing investments. Zoelle also shares her experience working for VaccinateCA (which ended up playing a massive role in helping get people vaccinated during the pandemic) and several tips for obtaining valuable customer feedback.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-airtables-unconventional

Where to find Zoelle Egner:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/zoelle

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zoelleegner/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Patrick McKenzie on Twitter: https://twitter.com/patio11

• The Last of Us on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-last-of-us

• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/

• Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/

• Block Party app: https://www.blockpartyapp.com/

• Kathy Sierra’s book Badass: Making Users Awesome: https://www.amazon.com/Badass-Making-Awesome-Kathy-Sierra/dp/1491919019

• Gainsight: https://www.gainsight.com/

• Datadog: https://www.datadoghq.com/

• Notion: https://www.notion.so/

• Zapier: https://zapier.com/

• Computing Taste: Algorithms and the Makers of Music Recommendation: https://www.amazon.com/Computing-Taste-Algorithms-Makers-Recommendation/dp/0226822974

• Ancillary Justice: https://www.amazon.com/Ancillary-Justice-Imperial-Radch-Leckie/dp/031624662X/

• The Happiness Lab podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/id1474245040

• Gastropod podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gastropod/id918896288

• Everything Everywhere All at Once on Showtime: https://www.sho.com/titles/3493875/everything-everywhere-all-at-once

• Extraordinary Attorney Woo on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81518991

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Webflow: https://webflow.com/

• Clay: https://www.clay.com/

• MKT1 Newsletter: https://newsletter.mkt1.co/

• Emily Kramer on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-build-a-powerful-marketing-machine-emily-kramer-asana-carta-mkt1/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) How VaccinateCA helped bridge a gap in infrastructure

(05:00) Zoelle’s lessons from her time at VaccinateCA

(18:04) How Zoelle broke into the tech industry

(19:01) Flocking patterns

(24:21) What Block Party does

(24:32) Zoelle’s storytelling

(29:15) Tactics for punching above your weight as a small startup

(31:30) The importance of having a highly detail-oriented person on staff

(33:33) Why Airtable used billboards

(36:43) Growth and marketing strategies at Airtable

(42:29) Using data provided by your customers to build features that help future customers

(50:59) Why customer success and marketing should be one team

(52:56) Things to avoid in marketing

(58:04) The power of templates

(1:00:58) Why Airtable did not prioritize templates for top-of-funnel revenue 

(1:02:04) Why just getting PR to “get PR” is not a good strategy

(1:04:57) The importance of getting customer feedback and investing in customer success

(1:05:51) Simple strategies for getting customer feedback

(1:07:53) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Brought to you by Pando—Always on employee progression (https://www.pando.com/lenny), Notion—One workspace. Every team (https://www.notion.com/lennyspod), and Lemon.io—A marketplace of vetted software developers (https://lemon.io/lenny).

Vijay Iyengar is Head of Product at Mixpanel, and similar to myself, came from an engineering background before transitioning to product. In today’s episode, he explains how Mixpanel has evolved its growth strategy from a fast-paced, feature-focused approach to a more deliberate approach that prioritizes design and user experience. He also shares how Mixpanel irons out customer problems, including implementing internal tools that allow engineering and product teams to respond to customer feedback directly. Additionally, Vijay shares his top SaaS products, books, frameworks, and more. Tune in to gain valuable insights from a seasoned product leader.

Where to find Vijay Iyengar:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/vijayiyengar

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vijay4/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Mixpanel: https://mixpanel.com/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Notion: https://www.notion.so/

• “Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work That Matters”: https://basecamp.com/shapeup

• The RICE prioritization framework: https://www.productplan.com/glossary/rice-scoring-model/

• BigQuery: https://cloud.google.com/bigquery

• Census: https://www.getcensus.com/

• Zoom: https://zoom.us/

• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/

• A Data Stack for PLG teams: https://mixpanel.com/blog/data-analytics-product-led-growth/

• Product analytics in the modern data stack: https://mixpanel.com/blog/mixpanel-partners-with-census-to-bring-product-analytics-to-the-modern-data-stack/

• Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/

• Amazon Redshift: https://www.amazonaws.cn/en/redshift/

• Event-Based Analytics: https://developer.mixpanel.com/docs/under-the-hood

• The Goal: A Process of Ongoing Improvement: https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Process-Ongoing-Improvement/dp/0884271951

• Cool Gray City of Love: 49 Views of San Francisco: https://www.amazon.com/Cool-Gray-City-Love-Francisco/dp/1608199606

• The West Wing Weekly podcast: http://thewestwingweekly.com/

• WeCrashed on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/wecrashed/

• Severance on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/severance/

• Gibson Biddle on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/gibson-biddle-on-his-dhm-product-strategy-framework-gem-roadmap-prioritization-framework-5-netflix-strategy-mini-case-studies-building-a-personal-board-of-directors-and-much-more/

• Shishir Mehrotra on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-rituals-of-great-teams-shishir-mehrotra-coda-youtube-microsoft/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Vijay’s background

(04:07) How Vijay learned to be more open-minded to new ideas 

(06:26) Mixpanel’s journey

(12:40) When to optimize for speed

(13:49) The feature phase vs. the design phase

(17:02) The importance of not losing focus on your core product

(19:52) How Mixpanel organizes teams around buckets of problems

(20:43) Mixpanel’s most recent six-month time horizon planning cycle

(25:08) The RICE framework for prioritization (and when to ignore the C and E)

(26:31) The problem with estimations, and why Basecamp suggests using a six-week time box

(30:04) How Mixpanel keeps product teams and engineers connected to customers via Slack 

(33:21) SaaS tools Mixpanel’s teams use

(34:54) The biggest product analytics mistakes

(37:34) The present and future of analytics 

(41:05) How adopting a product mindset has helped Vijay grow his career

(41:47) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.