Explore every episode of the podcast Lead & Follow
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Followership: Past, Present & Future – Ron Riggio | 21 Oct 2024 | 00:39:30 | |
Dr. Ron Riggio has a uniquely broad and deep perspective on the evolution of followership research over the past two decades. He is the Henry R. Kravis Professor of Leadership and Organizational Psychology and former Director of the Kravis Leadership Institute at Claremont McKenna College, where the very first followership conference took place back in 2006. In this episode, Ron shares his thoughts on where the followership community has been and where it is going, as well as his own current work to expand the research on followership and its relationship to leadership. Learn about his current work and collaborations including the anatomy of followership, implicit peer theory, storytelling methodologies, and more.
Claremont McKenna College Art of Followership, by Ronald E. Riggio, Ira Chaleff, & Jean Lipman-Blumen (Eds.) Global Followership Conference Liu, Z., Riggio, R.E., Reichard, R.J., & Walker, D.O. (2022). Everyday leadership: The construct, its validation, and developmental antecedents. International Leadership Journal, 14(1), 3-35. Beenen, G., Todorova, G., Pichler, S. & Riggio, R.E. (2022). Reconceptualizing multilevel leader-follower shared outcomes. Journal of Leadership and Organizational Studies, 29(2), 289-305. https://doi.org/10.1177/15480518221094481 Riggio, R.E., Lowe, K.B., & Levy, L. (2023). Why are followers neglected in leadership research.Organization Development Review, 55(3), 44-48. Riggio, R.E. (2014). Followership research: Looking back and looking forward. Journal of Leadership Education, 13, DOI: 10.12806/V13/I4/C4
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| Destructive Leadership in the 2024 US Election - Alain de Sales | 07 Oct 2024 | 00:45:58 | |
Dr. Alain de Sales currently teaches at the Queensland University of Technology’s Graduate School of Business (GSB) in Brisbane, Australia. In this episode, he describes a recent educational project he coordinated for a group of MBA alumni, analyzing patterns of destructive leadership in the 2024 US presidential election cycle. Back in Season 1 of the podcast, I interviewed Alain on his then and still groundbreaking PhD research on how courageous followership actions can interrupt and prevent the worst outcomes of destructive leadership actions – that episode is called Courageous Followers can Stop Destructive leadership. If you haven’t already, I suggest listening to that one first, before this one. It’s a detailed discussion of Alain’s theoretical work that will make this episode's real-time case study make more sense. GSB is among 1% of business schools worldwide to have triple accreditation for excellence from the world's leading accrediting bodies. At GSB Alain teaches leadership (and followership) nationally in the Executive MBA, MBA, and Public Service Management programs along with other executive education programs.
Episode References Join or Die - documentary film * | |||
| Connected Social Conversations – Dan Istrate | 13 Apr 2024 | 00:39:53 | |
Actor/Director Dan Istrate shares his thoughts on presence, connection, and social leading and following. Dan grew up in Romania and has lived for the past 25 years in the United States. He’s had thousands of both painful and hilarious experiences of language and culture translation and mis-translation, working on both stage and screen in a wide variety of creative collaborations. Socially, his way of being seems to invite other people to be more open, more brave, more playful, more free. It’s something that’s hard to describe in words but it’s an area of leading and following that we nevertheless experience every single day. It just might transform how you see simple conversations all around you, with friends, at home, with strangers, and even maybe especially on dates. If you’re someone who feels at all anxious about talking to people, or like me feels that they are still recovering from the pandemic, this episode might be especially helpful.
Website: www.danistrate.com IG: @DanIstrateDC FB: Dan.Istrate.796 * | |||
| Power & Influence of Global Followership - Yulia Tolstikov-Mast | 24 Mar 2024 | 00:34:17 | |
Yulia Tolstikov-Mast, Ph.D. shares the concept of a global follower and especially of global followership as a force of power that can and does influence the far-reaching decisions of global leaders. Yulia is a global leadership and followership expert, an award-winning international leadership scholar, and an educator. Her scholarship and training focus on the internalization of leadership and followership education, non-Western approaches to leadership and followership, global followership and citizenship behaviors, and leader-follower role switching. Her most significant contribution is the Handbook of International and Cross-Cultural Leadership Research Processes. The publication is a guide on conducting international research grounded in local epistemologies. Yulia was also Co-Investigator in Russia for the GLOBE 2020 Research Project.
Tolstikov-Mast, Y. (2016). Global followership: The launch of the scholarly journey. In J. S. Osland, M. Li, & Y. Want (Eds.), Advances in Global Leadership (Vol. 9, pp. 109-150). Bingley, UK: Emerald. Tolstikov-Mast, Y., & Aghajanian, C. (2023). Intersectional approach to combating human trafficking: Applying an Interdisciplinary Global Leader-Follower Collaboration Paradigm. In: Dhiman, S.K., Marques, J., Schmieder-Ramirez, J., Malakyan, P.G. (eds) Handbook of Global Leadership and Followership. Springer. "What is Global Leadership?" "10 socially-conscious players who showed footballers don’t need to 'stick to sport'" Title IX Company Mighty Be Our Powers: How Sisterhood, Prayer, and Sex Changed a Nation at War, by Leymah Gbowee National Whistleblower Center Global Followership Conference * | |||
| Followers Navigating Ethical Dilemmas - Kyle Payne | 03 Mar 2024 | 00:39:39 | |
Dr. Kyle Payne, a strategic talent development leader based in Chicago, describes his recent study exploring how professional engineers navigate ethical dilemmas. Kyle has fifteen years of experience driving process improvement and behavior change through training, coaching, and consulting. In his research, he focuses on unethical behavior at work and examines the behaviors of “ethical followers” who resist unethical behavior and call into question unethical thinking.
Research References
Other References
Website: http://www.kylepaynephd.com * | |||
| Season 3 Preview - Sharna Fabiano | 24 Feb 2024 | 00:08:04 | |
Hi Everyone, this is Sharna. I’ve spent the beginning of the year in a resting phase with the podcast, letting the new season slowly take shape in my mind. New episodes are coming soon, in early March, and I’m hoping this little preview will give you a sense of how I’m thinking about season 3 as a collection of conversations. * | |||
| Three Compelling Ideas for 2024 - Sharna Fabiano | 11 Dec 2023 | 00:16:22 | |
In this short, end-of year episode, host Sharna Fabiano reflects on season 2 and shares three compelling lead and follow ideas to try out in your own life and work in 2024. Please send feedback on Season 2 along with suggestions for Season 3 directly to Sharna at sharna@sharnafabiano.com. S1 E 23: The Necessity of Followership in Peace Building – Pedro Portela S1 E12: Followership Skills as Part of Professional Development - Brian Rook S1 E8: Courageous Followers can Stop Destructive Leadership - Alain de Sales * | |||
| Toxic Followership and Definitions of Power - Wendy M. Edmonds | 03 Dec 2023 | 00:41:07 | |
Dr. Wendy M. Edmonds is Interim Chair of the Management, Marketing, and Public Administration Department in the College of Business at a Historically Black University, and Co-Chair of the Global Followership Conference 2024. Her research focus is on toxic followership (people following bad people). She is an author, and internationally recognized toxic followership expert with a passion for positive change. Dr. Edmonds describes herself as a Workplace Toxicologist whose mission is to dismantle toxic followership and foster healthier, more productive environments. Wendy shares the characteristics of this important - if darker - aspect of followership and how it influences how powerful or powerless we may feel in our every day lives as employees, as members of a community, or as citizens. We also discuss how to use popular media and physical role plays in the classroom to inspire rich conversations about different kinds of followership and leadership choices. “Toxic followership is consistent destructive behavior over and over again.”
Episode References CNN: Escape From Jonestown
https://www.netflix.com/title/80202462
Global Followership Conference * | |||
| Leadership & Followership in the British Army – Langley Sharp | 26 Nov 2023 | 00:42:32 | |
Langley Sharp is the former head of the Centre for Army Leadership, responsible for championing leadership excellence across the British Army. After graduating from Sandhurst two decades ago, his career in the Parachute Regiment, which included operational command at every rank, saw him deployed to Northern Ireland, Macedonia, Afghanistan and Iraq. Among his many varied roles, he led a counter-insurgency Task Force operation, commanded a Parachute Regiment Battalion and delivered the Ministry of Defence’s training programme for the London 2012 Olympics venue security. He is the author of the British Army’s official account of leadership, The Habit of Excellence, distilling over three centuries of the Army's experience in the art, science and practice of leadership. And he is Founder and Director of the consultancy firm Frontier Leadership. In this episode, Langley shares how and why followership is now becoming more explicit in the Army’s official documentation of itself, and how that articulation will in turn refine the way service members are trained in the future. "Warfare is not a place for individuals." > Langley Sharp, The Habit of Excellence > British Army Doctrine Note on Followership > Centre for Army Leadership Conference 2023 - Creating Effective Followership Chaleff, I. (1995). The courageous follower: Standing up to and for our leaders. San Francisco: Berrett-Koehler Publishers. "For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.”
Connect with Langley Sharp https://frontierleadership.co.uk/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/langley-sharp/ * | |||
| Smart Followership for Talent Development - David Elser | 19 Nov 2023 | 00:27:04 | |
David Elser, author of Doing the Chores, shares his concept of smart followership through personal stories of growing up on a small family farm in northwest Ohio. David is a learning and development professional based in Coldwater Lake, Michigan who has over 30 years of experience in the transportation industry. He works with employees at all levels, from essential front-line workers to executive leaders. David has a master's degree in organizational management and is a Certified Professional Coach. “[Smart followership] is having the willingness and ability to enthusiastically and effectively provide support.” “What if we brought into the organization smart followership skills training, what would that mean?” "Sometimes its best to step back and let others come up with the solution." Episode References Trust, Followership, and Leadership in Non-Profit Change Processes - Tom Klaus HR Perspective on Followership and Leadership Training - Julie Newman
Connect with David Elser Doing the Chores Book (adults) Doing the Chores Book (kids) Facebook LinkedIn * | |||
| Followership-Centric Organizations - David Scott | 12 Nov 2023 | 00:37:43 | |
David Scott is a PhD Researcher at the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow, Scotland. He is exploring Followership Salience as a factor of Leadership in Organisations, and is also a Visiting Lecturer in Business at Leeds Trinity University.
“It’s impossible to be a role model without being a leader.” “By me thinking of myself first and foremost as a followership practitioner. It removes the fear when someone else wants to lead me, even as a chief executive of a large organization.” “Taking this followership-centric approach enabled so many more team players to come into the mix…to ensure that we as an organization stayed true to our purpose.”
Jimmy Collins, Creative Followership Philip Meilinger, “The 10 Rules of Good Followership” Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower: Standing up To and For our Leaders Edmonstone, J. (2003), "Learning and development in action learning: the energy investment model", Industrial and Commercial Training, Vol. 35 No. 1, pp. 26-28. Mango, E. (2018) 'Rethinking Leadership Theories'. Open Journal of Leadership, 7 (01), pp. 57-88. Barbara Kellerman Julian B. Rotter, Locus of Control * | |||
| Natural Followership - Christian Monö | 05 Nov 2023 | 00:42:12 | |
Christian Monö is a Speaker, Author and Sweden’s first and only followership expert.
“We like to follow people who can help us get where we already want to go.” “As soon as you create an environment in which people feel they are not free, they will start reacting to it.” “In natural followership the group sets the vision not a leader.” “When it comes to changing the world it’s not the leaders who do it; it’s the followers.” Valve Software Buurtzorg Björn Lundén Information Connect with Chris Monö Website - https://www.followership.se/ * | |||
| Leading & Following in Community Settings - Eric Kaufman | 18 Aug 2024 | 00:35:44 | |
Leadership Educator and Scholar Eric Kaufman shares his observations of leading and following dynamics in a variety of community and volunteer settings, from civic organizations like Kiwanis Clubs to parent-teacher organizations to church governance bodies.
Episode References https://www.linkedin.com/in/erickkaufman/ * | |||
| Followership for Social Good - Fatema Haque and Dorine Lawrence-Hughes | 22 Oct 2023 | 00:37:18 | |
This episode is a conversation about integrated leadership-followership education, featuring both Fatema Haque, Academic Program Manager & LEO Adjunct Lecturer at the Barger Leadership Institute at the University of Michigan, and also Dorine Lawrence-Hughes, Assistant Dean of Undergraduate Education at the University of Michigan. They are both involved in the introduction of followership to the Barger Leadership Institute curriculum and I’m excited to have them on the show together to talk about that process and how it’s preparing students for both professional and community work. “Giving students agency to pick what they want to work has been really essential.” “Talking about what it means to be a good follower, what it means to be ethical, what it means to hold our leaders accountable, is good and necessary work that we need to be doing now.” “This topic blows students away.”
Episode Resources Barger Leadership Institute, University of Michigan Barbara Kellerman, Bad Leadership Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower Basil Read, Read & Read Leadership and Management Consultants, LLC Marc and Samantha Hurwitz, Leadership is Half the Story Brazen Communication * | |||
| Followership in the Engineering Leadership Programs at Cornell University - Erica Dawson | 09 Oct 2023 | 00:41:26 | |
I speak with Erica Dawson, Professor of Practice and Nancy and Bob Selander Executive Director of the Engineering Leadership Programs at Cornell University. Erica’s Montana upbringing instilled in her a deep sense of connection to the mountains and outdoors. But her thirst for adventure was too big even for the Big Sky State, so eventually she made the leap to New York to pursue a PhD in Social Psychology at Cornell University. She went on to become a professor at the Yale School of Management, where her intellectual interests expanded from judgement and decision-making to themes of developing human potential. As a Faculty Fellow of the Dalai Lama Center for Ethics and Transformative Values at MIT, she has traveled the world teaching ethical leadership to audiences as diverse as Tibetan monks, European women pharmaceutical scientists, and Colombian judges.
“Some people have never identified that if I’m showing up and I’m just disengaged, I’m costing the group something. There’s a responsibility to either become engaged or exit myself, because it’s a cost.”
“For some…understanding that followership is a very active role, where you own your own ability to both support and challenge, that’s pretty novel.”
“When we teach followership we are teaching the fundamental skills of being able to have influence from any position in a team or an organization, and that’s actually what people want.”
Episode References
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| Followership and Strategic Process - David Leitner | 24 Sep 2023 | 00:39:24 | |
Dr. David Leitner has spent the last 15 years as a followership, leadership, and strategy educator. In this episode, he shares his passion and perspective on followership and leadership not only interpersonally but also as a way of analyzing relationships between states, communities, or companies.
Robert Kelley, "In Praise of Followers," HBR 1998 Barbara Kellerman, "What Every Leader Needs to Know about Followers," HBR 2007 S1 E20 - Listening as a Core Followership Skill - Eran Magen
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleitner/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/david.a.leitner * | |||
| Celebrating Followers in Spiritual Life, Business, and Governance - Nixon Jallo | 10 Sep 2023 | 00:43:47 | |
Nixon Jallo is Husband, Father, Chief Executive of FOLDEVIN Consults Ltd., Bishop of Supernatural Love Ministries, Rector of Agape Bible College, Writer and Researcher based in Jalingo, Taraba State, Northeast Nigeria. He speaks about teaching followership in both faith communities and business communities, how followership differs at each level of an organization, and why recognizing the value of followers and followership is critical to success in organizations of all kinds. Jallo completed a Master’s degree in Theology and is now completing another one in Organizational Leadership, and is the author of several books on followership including Principles of Followership, Understanding Followership and Leadership Fusion, and My Ideal Leader: The Heart Cry of Followers.
“There are people who are vision writers and those who are vision runners. And those people who run with the vision are the followers.” “Every organization succeeds because the followers are given the room to show their ability and their skill.”
Principles of Followership, by Nixon Jallo https://www.amazon.com/PRINCIPLES-FOLLOWERSHIP-NIXON-JALLO/dp/B08SRFBW4B/ Nixon Jallo on LinkedIn * | |||
| Quick Tips: Inner Orientation | 28 Aug 2023 | 00:03:10 | |
Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Choose an inner orientation. This technique is also called choosing a mindset or an intention. I’m calling it an inner orientation because I want you to use it as a deliberate and methodical way to orient to people and situations you are in. Most of the time, our inner state is reactive, and we’re not really choosing it. You like some people and dislike others. You feel comfortable or uncomfortable, inspired or bored, and you attribute those inner states to external circumstances. That’s a normal process AND at the same time, we have the ability as humans to choose a specific way of orienting from the inside. For example, if you’re thinking about how you want to orient in an upcoming meeting, you might choose a quality like receptivity, openness, curiosity, or any other quality that will help you participate in a positive and productive way. Different situations may call for different orientations, especially if you are switching back and forth between leadership and followership functions throughout your day, as many of us do. When you choose your inner orientation, make sure you take a moment to feel it in your body, and to notice what it feels like, so you can track yourself, and remind yourself to return to being receptive or curious or open when you find yourself becoming distracted. Practice sitting, standing, and walking in a way that you can feel this quality in your body and recognize it. This tip may sound super simple, but I assure you, it is one of the most powerful techniques I teach. When you embody positive inner states on a regular basis, you’ll feel more comfortable in your own skin, communication will become clearer, and relationships with the people around you will begin to improve. Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes! * | |||
| HR Perspective on Followership and Leadership Training - Julie Newman | 21 Aug 2023 | 00:30:29 | |
Julie Newman, a Certified Human Resources Leader in Ontario, Canada, shares her experience coordinating a recent implementation of leadership and followership training for a nonprofit client. "How better can you tell your people that they mean something to you than to say all of you are leaders and all of you are followers. " "It sends such a strong message to your people that you value them in their development but also in what they have to say. " "Diving into followership opens this whole amazing great world and a different view and once you go there you can’t go back." "You need to be a leader in the HR specialty but also the follower to really apply those pieces in the best possible way for the organization that you are supporting." Email: willowhallhr@gmail.com Website: www.willowhallhr.com * | |||
| Quick Tips: Deepen Your Breath | 14 Aug 2023 | 00:04:06 | |
Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Deepen your breath. Many of us are in the habit of shallow breathing, sometimes called chest breathing, where the collarbones and sometimes shoulders move up and down with each inhale and exhale. Because of tension in the muscles, or sometimes just because of the general speed of working life, our bodies can get used to a shallow, fast rhythm of breathing, using only a small amount of our lung capacity and giving us only a small amount of oxygen. Shallow breathing can also increase heart rate and blood pressure, making you feel anxious, or it can prevent CO2 from exiting the body, making you feel sleepy. There are lots of great breathing techniques out there to try, but my suggestion today is a very simple one. It’s to focus on the location of your inhale and exhale. More specifically, I’d like you to think about the location of the sensations of inhaling and exhaling. This is not a clinical anatomical question, and there’s no right answer. Rather it’s an imaginative exercise. First notice where you are most aware of the feeling of your inhale and exhale. It might be your chest or belly, but it may be somewhere else, your nose for example. If the location is high, in your face or upper chest, try to gently shift the location down a few inches, imagining that the air was entering the filling your body lower down. Keep going down a few inches at a time until you reach your lower belly. Don’t overthink this exercise, just imagine air filling your body. If you’re already feeling your breath in your belly, you might imagine it expanding upward instead, filling also your middle abdomen and chest. Don’t force anything, just imagine opening more space for the air to flow in and out. Not only does deep, full breathing reduce all kinds of anxiety and stress, research shows that it improves concentration and mental clarity as well. It will likely make you appear more relaxed and approachable to other people as well. Try this breath location exercise a few times throughout the day, maybe before and after meetings, or anytime you want to feel more calm, more centered, or more focused. Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes! * | |||
| Training Everyone in Both Leadership and Followership – Samantha Hurwitz | 07 Aug 2023 | 00:32:12 | |
Together with her partner in all things, Marc Hurwitz, my guest Samantha Hurwitz is co-author of the game-changing book Leadership is Half the Story and co-founder of the innovative training and development company FliP University, based in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. Samantha and Marc are also co-founders of the Global Followership Conference, which is where she and I first met in 2019. She describes herself as a recovered corporate executive, and as Chief Encouragement Officer of Flip University, she and Marc are setting the gold standard for "pracademic" leadership and followership training in organizations of all sizes. “When it comes to leadership development, the strongest return on investment is actually closer to the front lines than your senior executives.”
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| Simultaneous Leading and Following in Complex Organizations - Chris Fuzie | 10 Jul 2023 | 00:37:33 | |
Dr. Chris Fuzie, owner of CMF Leadership Consulting, talks through the development and delivery of his Effective Followership training program and how it works in combination with leadership training. We also discuss how most employees in large complex organizations are actually leading and following at the same time, whether they realize it or not! And how focusing more on consistent, desired behaviors can often be more impactful than focusing solely on leadership vs followership role awareness.
Connect with Chris Fuzie https://www.cmfleadership.com/effectivefollowership * | |||
| Followership Training in Healthcare Teams - Erin Barry | 19 Jun 2023 | 00:33:28 | |
My guest Erin Barry is currently working on her PhD in Health Professions Education focusing on leadership and followership within healthcare teams. She shares her observations of how meaningful and flexible followership impacts the quality of care delivered to patients, as well as the necessity of regular peer feedback and personal reflection. “Healthcare is a team sport” “We get [students] to think about what their dominant style of followership is so that they can see that it’s probably going to shift depending on the situation.” “We talk a lot about how even as a follower you have a lot more influence than you might assume.” “Our different roles really do need to change depending on what’s needed by the team.”
Previous episode: Leadership, Followership and Emotional Intelligence (IWU Part 3) - Yolonda Tonette Sanders * | |||
| Leading & Following in Improvised Music – Jane Bentley | 28 Jul 2024 | 00:32:06 | |
Dr. Jane Bentley is a percussionist and drum circle facilitator based in Glasgow, Scotland, specializing in rhythm, improvisation, group dynamics and communication skills. She completed a Ph.D on drum circle improvisation and facilitation, highlighting the effects of group music making on human wellbeing, and revealing its fascinating leadership and followership dynamics. Jane’s work as a facilitator has broken new ground in the field of health and wellbeing, through her long-term collaborations with mental health occupational therapy staff in the UK National Health Service. She has worked with children in hospitals; in mental health care settings; in prisons, and with people with dementia. In this episode, she shares what she has discovered over the years about the power of fluid leading and following in improvised music.
Jane’s TEDx Talk
Connect with Jane Bentley https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-bentley-a2550631/
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| Quick Tips: Tune In | 12 Jun 2023 | 00:03:14 | |
Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Tune in. You’ve probably heard many times that active listening is an important skill for just about anything, including leadership and followership. Tuning in does include listening with your ears, but it’s much more than that. It’s more like listening with your whole body, directing your attention with all of your senses open toward one person or one group of people. Think of the phrase reading the room. To do that well we need to do more than listen to what people say. We need to tune in on a nonverbal level, or become attuned to the person or people we’re interacting with. Think of adjusting an old analog radio dial or radio antenna to clear the static and hear the signal more clearly. So start noticing subtle things like emotional tone, speech volume, energy level, facial expression and body posture. Does the person seem upbeat? Tired? Concerned? Enthusiastic? Distracted? It could be a lot of things, and to be clear, you will never know exactly what another person is feeling or experiencing, unless they tell you. We misread each other all the time, because we think that like professional actors, we’re transparent, that what we express in our facial expression what we’re feeling on the inside. But most people are actually NOT transparent. Tuning in is not mind-reading. Still, observing the other person’s nonverbal signals does a couple of very useful things. One: like a mindfulness practice, it brings you into the present moment, making it less likely that you’ll get distracted by your own thoughts. And two: it makes the other person feel a little bit more seen by you, as a human being, and that one of the most reliable ways to create connection, even with a stranger, and set the stage for a more honest, more productive conversation. Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes! * | |||
| Leading and Following in 4-H Youth Programs (USM Part 2) - Maddie Gray | 05 Jun 2023 | 00:37:31 | |
This week on the podcast, I speak with Maddie Gray, a Leadership & Organizational Studies major at the University of Southern Maine and a member of this year’s USM Collegiate Leadership Competition team. She has been involved with 4-H for fifteen years, competing in public speaking competitions and building her leadership and followership skills. Maddie speaks eloquently and candidly about supporting others, having difficult team conversations, and her experience leading and following as a member of the 4-H youth development program. This episode also has great examples of the twin concepts of situational leadership and situational followership, plus lots of subtle yet powerful tips for anyone working in teams, especially for those who are frequently sharing or rotating the leadership role. “People aren’t afraid knowing they’re going to have a follower.” This episode is part 2 of the USM series, so if you haven't already, please also go back and listen to Part 1 with Professor Dan Jenkins. Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower 4-H Youth Development Organization Dancing Guy – First Follower Video * | |||
| Quick Tips: Great Meeting Agendas | 29 May 2023 | 00:07:48 | |
Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is make meeting agendas and make them great. One reason we tend to complain about meetings is that they feel like a waste of time. I know that when I don’t have any meaningful way to participate, or the topic isn’t relevant to me, I can’t get out of the room fast enough, and if I’m required to be in the meeting, I start feeling resentful pretty fast, because my time is limited and I have things to do. I imagine you may feel the same way. The good news is that if you are leading a meeting, you have a lot of influence over how that time is spent. Making a great agenda is one way you can make really good use of time. I know the term agenda may sound boring, but it doesn’t have to be. I actually really love agendas because to me a well-crafted meeting agenda is like a well-crafted choreography or set of stage directions. Basically, it’s a way of organizing time so that the meeting flows in a logical, useful, and maybe even interesting and fun. * | |||
| Learning games for better leadership and smarter followership - Fran Kick | 22 May 2023 | 00:38:37 | |
Fran Kick is an author, educational consultant, and professional speaker who works with corporate and educational organizations that want to develop better leadership and smarter followership for faster long-term results. As a company owner, entrepreneur, and consultant, Fran combines his master’s degree and clinical background in Educational Psychology with over 30 years in the K-20 education and business worlds. He has been inspiring people to KICK IT IN and TAKE THE LEAD since 1986 with convention and conference keynotes, breakouts, in-services, orientations, workshops, programs, retreats, consulting, and publishing. In 1999, Fran earned the National Speakers Association’s most prestigious earned designation—the CSP or Certified Speaking Professional He has given over 3,000 presentations in all 50 U.S. states plus 6 Canadian Provinces in front of audiences of 40 to 10,000 participants. And in nearly all of those, Fran has presented leadership development and followership development together whether he is working with fifth grade students or Fortune 500 companies.
Connect with Fran Kick
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| Quick Tips: Style Your Language | 08 May 2023 | 00:05:00 | |
If you’re a strongly narrative thinker, you may respond to any kind of question by telling a story. That usually starts by providing considerable background information and then describing what happened in chronological order. Stories are definitely a crucial part of how we learn, but they can also be time-consuming and therefore sometimes distracting. Abstract thinkers like me fall on the opposite end of the spectrum. If this is you, you probably tend to zero in on one specific detail that you feel is important, or provide the verbal equivalent of a bulleted list. If someone asks you how your day was, you might just give a quick one-word assessment or list a few key events that took place. Both abstract and narrative thinking are useful in the right context. The question is: Which one will help you the most with the conversation or interaction you are having right now? A good rule of thumb is to use stories for presentations, proposals, and establishing common ground. Use concepts for troubleshooting, project updates, or brainstorming. * | |||
| Leadership and Followership at an Architectural Design Firm (JCU Part 3) - Michael Christoff | 01 May 2023 | 00:33:47 | |
Michael Christoff, Senior Associate and Practice Leader for Architecture at Vocon, shares his insights about leadership and followership roles in the flow of organizational work and on design projects specifically. This episode is Part 3 of the John Carroll University series, so if you missed Parts 1 and 2, please do go back and listen to those as well. “At all the points in your career you’re going to need to understand when you need to play each role.” “Being a good follower as a designer is really listening to what the client needs, understanding how their business works, because you’re about to design a building that they’re going to have to function in.” * | |||
| Quick Tips: Stretch Before Meetings | 24 Apr 2023 | 00:04:42 | |
Your lead & follow coaching tip for today is Stretch Before Meetings One the reasons the quick stretch works is that when you sit still for long periods of time, whole sections of your nervous system kind of go to sleep. Without your physical senses active, you’re actually less aware of your own body and your own emotional state, and having your body half asleep can make it harder to think. * | |||
| Integrating Followership into Leadership Education Programs (USM Part 1)- Dan Jenkins | 17 Apr 2023 | 00:40:06 | |
I speak with Dan Jenkins, Professor of Leadership & Organizational Studies at the University of Southern Maine about his collaborative work integrating specific methods for training followership into leadership programs, and tracking the impressive results! “What we’ve learned is that students, since they’ve been in both the leader and the follower role, they have a totally different context for what their leader needs when they’re NOT in the leader role, and vice versa.” “We’ve noticed that follower identification has increased their skill capacity as a team member.”
Episode References Global Followership Conference The Leadership Educator Podcast Collegiate Leadership Competition New Directions in Student Leadership, Volume 2020, Issue 167 Leadership is Half the Story by Marc Hurwitz and Samantha Hurwitz Kolb’s Experiential Learning Model Leadership and Followership Tango Video The Courageous Follower by Ira Chaleff ILA Leadership Education Academy * | |||
| Quick Tips: Dress Comfortably | 17 Apr 2023 | 00:04:46 | |
Your lead & follow coaching tip for today is Dress Comfortably This tip comes straight from my training as a social dancer, which includes a big focus on subtle non-verbal communication. To understand why this might be important in a professional context, think about communication in a very broad sense, not only as the words you speak or write, but also as the non-verbal tones and qualities you transmit to another person through your whole presence, through your body language, through your expression, your emotional state. And this is true by the way even if you’re writing an email, if you’re on video conference, if you’re talking on the phone. The way you feel in your body when you’re communicating, directly influences what you actually communicate, no matter what the delivery format may be. * | |||
| Leadership, Followership and Emotional Intelligence (IWU Part 3) - Yolonda Tonette Sanders | 27 Mar 2023 | 00:36:19 | |
I speak with Dr. Yolonda Tonette Sanders, who shares her recent dissertation research on connections between followers' emotional intelligence and their followership styles, and what this means for leaders in organizations of all kinds. "Organizations should do more to build followership and teach that it’s ok to speak up and ask questions." "I do try to cultivate environments where people are not afraid to challenge me because I am not always right." "We as leaders have to realize that sometimes other people have better ideas. We don’t have all the answers."
Robert Kelley, Power of Followership Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower Daniel Goleman, Emotional Intelligence Barbara Kellerman, Followership
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| The 4 Tiers of Followership - Eric McDermott | 07 Jul 2024 | 00:41:46 | |
Eric McDermott shares a framework he developed through his decades of professional experience called the 4 Tiers of Followership (or the 4 Tiers of Help).
Episode References
Connect with Eric McDermott Nextpectations * | |||
| Reciprocal Leadership and Followership Keeps us Human (JCU Part 2) - Grace Wright | 13 Mar 2023 | 00:27:13 | |
I speak with Grace Wright, board president of the Euclid Hunger Center and community resource manager at University Settlement, a social service agency serving the Slavic Village neighborhood of Cleveland, Ohio. She has worked in hunger relief services for the last 12 years, managing hunger centers in the Greater Cleveland area. She has an undergraduate degree in social work and nonprofit management and in August of 2022 she completed the John Carroll University MBA program. In her free time, she is an avid music lover and enjoys spending time with friends and family. This episode is Part II of the John Carroll University series, so if you missed Part I, where I talk with Dr. Scott Allen about teaching leadership and followership, please do go back and listen! Grace shares her experience in the John Carroll program and how her understanding of followership is influencing how she leads.
Euclid Hunger Center * | |||
| Creating Great Teams by Following as a Leader (IWU Part 2) - Chad Bennett | 27 Feb 2023 | 00:34:57 | |
I speak with Chad Bennett, Director of Technology for Sturgis Public Schools in Michigan and Tech/Production Director for Radiant Life Church. Chad will complete his Bachelor of Science degree in Organizational Leadership from Indiana Wesleyan University in April 2023, and in this episode, he shares his experience in the program learning leadership and followership together, and how that double lens is guiding his current work. This episode is Part II of the Indiana Wesleyan University series, so be sure to go back and listen to Part I, featuring Professor Michael Linville and Division Chair Mark Rennaker speaking about their new textbook, Essentials of Followership.
References John 13: Jesus Washes His Disciples Feet Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower * | |||
| Teaching Purpose with a New Textbook: Essentials of Followership (IWU Part 1) - Michael Linville and Mark Rennaker | 13 Feb 2023 | 00:46:14 | |
I speak with Michael Linville and Mark Rennaker about their new textbook, Essentials of Followership: Rethinking the Leadership Paradigm with Purpose, and about the Division of Leadership and Followership Studies at Indiana Wesleyan University. The textbook is an absolute game-changer and every leadership education program in the country needs it!
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| Awareness and Intentionality in Leadership/Followership Education (JCU Part 1) - Scott Allen | 30 Jan 2023 | 00:37:39 | |
I talk with Scott Allen, PhD, professor of management at John Carroll University, on integrating followership into leadership education and training, especially through the Collegiate Leadership Competition, which he co-founded. Scott is also an author and the host of the podcast Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders, and he regularly leads workshops across industries. “We are building awareness that there are two sides of the coin. This is a system at play.” “What we’re really trying to do is bring students to a place of intentionality." Connect with Scott Allen Dr. Ron Riggio - Leadership: Here's What We Know Sharna Fabiano – Lead & Follow Dr. John Ross - Team Unity: A Leader's Guide to Unlocking Extraordinary Potential
Kansas Leadership Center, “Intervene skillfully” Youtube Video Clip, Apollo 13 - A New Mission Mike Linville and Mark Rennaker, Essentials of Followership Anthony E. Middlebrooks, Scott J. Allen, Mindy S. (Sue) McNutt, James L. Morrison, Discovering Leadership, second edition * | |||
| Followership Skills in University Clubs and Creative Projects (CNU Part 3) - Henry Sergent | 27 Dec 2022 | 00:30:06 | |
Henry Sergent is a third year student at Christopher Newport University and a participant in its unique President’s Leadership program, which now includes a whole course on Followership. He shares his experiences putting both leadership and followership into practice organizing the student golf club, in a late-night fraternity meeting, and on a clothing brand photo shoot! This episode is Part 3 of a 3-part series, exploring the learning of followership as an integrated part of the CNU leadership program. If you haven't already, I encourage you to go back to listen to Part I: Developing a Followership Course. “Leaders can’t do everything by themselves even if they want to.” “I always think the group dynamic is better when the leader sets the frame and gives it kind of a thesis and then the content is a production of the creativity of the followers and the leader together.” “You need to be very self-aware of your abilities and strengths when you enter a group process.” “There’s so much fulfillment that can come from being a good follower and enabling a group to go on.”
Henry Sergent's Hand-Painted Vintage Clothing * | |||
| Followership Skills in Your First Job at Disneyland (CNU Part 2) - Lawson Herold | 26 Dec 2022 | 00:33:32 | |
Lawson Herold is a recent alumni of Christopher Newport University’s unique President's Leadership program which now includes a whole course on Followership. He shares leadership and followership insights from his work as a crew member aboard the Star Wars Galactic Starcruiser at the Disney World Resort in Orlando. This episode is Part 2 of a 3-part series, exploring the learning of followership as an integrated part of the CNU leadership program. If you haven't already, I encourage you to go back to listen to Part I: Developing a Followership Course. “Leadership can make change intentional, but followership can make change effective.” “What I loved about my time especially in my followership course was learning about the moments of empathy, of compassion, of moral courage, where the choices you make as a follower have impact. I see that aboard the Starcruiser.” “Storytelling is inherently a vulnerable act. As a leader it’s understanding the audience and as a follower it’s understanding who you are in that space.” Leadership is Half the Story Star Wars: Galactic Starcruiser * | |||
| Developing a Followership Course (CNU Part 1) - Lori Throupe & Lacey Grey Hunter | 19 Dec 2022 | 00:38:53 | |
Lori Throupe and Lacey Grey Hunter, who are faculty and staff, respectively, at Christopher Newport University, share how they have integrated followership into a pre-existing campus-wide leadership program, work that has culminated into a full followership course. This episode is Part 1 of a 3-part series. In Parts 2 and 3, you'll hear from alumni and current students at Christopher Newport who have taken the followership course and participated in the leadership program. “Once we started to really broaden the aperture of leadership to focus on more than only the leader, I believe that all of our students began to identify themselves as individuals who had a place within the phenomenon of leadership.” “Once our students are made aware of the fact that being a follower means that you possess power and influence, it changes how they see themselves in the relationship of leadership. I have seen it increase their ability to advocate for their point of view. I have seen students build closer relationships with a leader because they have taken the responsibility off the shoulders of only the leader.” “We see students almost turn completely around because they recognize that the proportion of time that they spend in followership roles is incredibly greater than the proportion of time that they currently spend in leadership roles.” The Power of Followership, Robert Kelley Followership, Barbara Kellerman The Courageous Follower, Ira Chaleff Leadership is Half the Story, Marc Hurwitz and Samantha Hurwitz
Other References Radical Candor Global Followership Conference, March 24-26, 2023 * | |||
| Lead & Follow Lessons from Multi-Person Puppetry - Kelsey Kato | 18 Apr 2022 | 00:35:30 | |
Puppeteer and educator Kelsey Kato shares his observations and insights of leadership and followership in puppetry through his work with Rogue Artists Ensemble, a Los Angeles theater company, and as a performer and guide at Noah’s Ark, an ongoing children’s exhibition at the Skirball Cultural Center. “I like to be in a position where I’m creating a foundation for other people to give offers to do something interesting. I find that really fun and I find myself freed by that.” “Having the choice to follow in the way that makes sense to you is really powerful.”
Resources Rogue Artists Ensemble * | |||
| The Necessity of Followership in Peace Building - Pedro Portela | 03 Apr 2022 | 00:43:52 | |
I talk with Pedro Portela, a complex systems thinking coach and a self-described network enthusiast living in Portugal. An engineer by training, Pedro is now a freelance consultant for peace building and conflict transformation. We explore how followership skills play a vital role in peace building initiatives as well as how understanding healthy leading and following dynamics can help us let go of the command-control paradigm so that we can move forward together in a world of complexity and uncertainty. “We tend to be blocked in this idea that everyone needs to lead, when really everyone needs to be more in touch with what it is that they want to follow.”
Episode References John Paul Lederach, The Moral Imagination: The Art and Soul of Building Peace
Podcast: It Takes Two to Tango Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedro-portela-9a40423/ Medium: https://medium.com/@pportela Flip University40% off the world's first online Followership course with code LEADFOLLOW40. Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you. * | |||
| Creating New Definitions for Leadership/Followership Roles - Sharna Fabiano & Eran Magen | 20 Mar 2022 | 00:50:00 | |
In this episode, I switch roles with one of my previous guests, Eran Magen, who guest-hosts this week and takes us on a provocative and philosophical journey into the nature of human relationship. We cover a lot of terrain starting from my very first social dance steps to the larger implications of rewriting the conventional script of leading and following roles at work and in society. “We tend to think leading is primary, but perhaps following is primary. We’re always responding to something.” “Rewrite the script and normalize following as something everyone is doing all the time.” “It’s really noble work to reset these roles because they ripple through every facet of our existence together."
Episode References: Marc and Samantha Hurwitz * | |||
| Followership at the Strategic Level – Paul McGachey | 16 Jun 2024 | 00:40:34 | |
Paul McGachey shares his theoretical research on Ira Chaleff's Courageous Follower model plus lots of terrific examples from his own professional work demonstrating what it takes to follow courageously at the higher levels of an organization, whether that's in the US military or in the business sector. Paul is a scholar-practitioner with 18 years of experience in the United States military and is currently pursuing a PhD in Education and Human Resources at Colorado State University. His primary research interests are followership and scenario planning, a tool that uses multiple future scenarios to drive strategic action and decision-making. “The follower has to see themselves as an active participant in the organization.” “If you’re in a relationship with a leader who does not want your feedback, you need to resist the urge to take a passive role, just because that’s how the leader or the organization sees you.” “You need to build that leader-follower relationship and that’s going to be built on trust and results over time.” “As you build a follower role orientation within yourself and within your organization, you’re going to gain more influence over your leader.” “Scenario planning has been very successful at changing mental models.” “Regardless of whether you have input in the vision, you have direct action in the implementation and culture of the organization.”
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| Lead by Following in Contact Improvisation and the Feldenkrais Method - Daniel Burkholder | 13 Mar 2022 | 00:37:57 | |
Dancer/Choreographer Daniel Burkholder shares his experience with leading and especially following through the improvisational forms of Contact Improvisation and Feldenkrais Method. Daniel choreographs, improvises, performs, teaches dance and the Feldenkrais Method, and practices mindfulness. His choreographic/improvisational work spans theatrical performances, site-specific events, immersive media, and screendance, and has been presented at numerous venues throughout North America and internationally. His current work includes: “On-Site”, a series of embodied screendance experiments; “Embodied Truth: finding ways to move together”, a collaboration with Kimani Fowlin examining race and gender through the lens of parenting; and, “act/re/act”, a podcast exploring improvisation through conversations with remarkable artists. His work has been commissioned by The John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, James Madison University, and Goucher College, among others. Daniel is currently an Associate Professor of Dance at University of Wisconsin Milwaukee and the director of the MFA in Dance program. “In the act of following there’s a generosity that evolves, and so much is possible.” “There is a sense of leading, but it’s through following the cues that I’m getting from the person I’m working with.” “If I just come through with a hard laid-out plan I miss an opportunity to really see what’s happening in the moment and the possibilities within that moment.” “The trust is that I’m going to enter this relationship where we’re going to be engaging one other with a goal that is supportive, that helps both of us flourish, that opens of new possibilities for ourselves.” Listen to Daniel’s act | re | act podcast Example of Contact Improvisation Information on Feldenkrais Method * | |||
| Listening as a Core Followership Skill - Eran Magen | 27 Feb 2022 | 00:40:51 | |
Dr. Eran Magen shares his insights around listening as a core followership skill and how the right balance of leading and following helps us form connected, supportive relationships. Dr. Magen is the founder of Early Alert, which works with universities, hospitals, public schools and first responder agencies to prevent suicide and promote wellness among students and employees. His work has been published in top-tier scientific journals including Psychological Science, Emotion, and Academic Pediatrics, and has been cited in popular media ranging from Allure Magazine to Psychology Today. He is a member of the Jed Foundation's advisory board, and the founder of Parenting For Humans, a relationship-first, trauma-informed approach to parenting that helps parents build stronger, more joyful relationships with their children and with themselves. “For me listening is very much a form of meditation.” “The core of the how is to spend a lot of time following. Setup, following, and leading.” “To help someone be less upset, we follow. And when they’re done being upset, we check if it’s ok to lead.” "People don’t always talk about the thing that really bothers them. Sometimes they don’t even know. And if we listen to them well they can find out.” * | |||
| Leading & Following in Creative Collaborations - Glover Gill | 15 Feb 2022 | 00:43:34 | |
This episode is a reflective conversation on the creative process with an artist I have long admired, composer and multi-instrumentalist Glover Gill. Glover and I take a trip down memory lane as we chat about our collaboration on the making of a dance theater piece called Uno back in 2008. Glover also shares insights about leading and following in his collaborations with other musicians and with filmmaker Richard Linklater, emphasizing how great collaboration depends on mutual trust, respect, and relationships built over time. “On a couple of movements of our piece, the writing took control of me and I just had to follow the direction that it was going.” “I almost feel like the best thing I can do in a collaboration is try to do just enough leading to get myself into the follower role as much as possible.” “While I’m looking at little tiny details, he’s looking at the big picture. It’s a symbiosis.” “Part of good leadership is identifying the right structure for the outcome that we want and for the people that we’re working with.” “I think there may be very few things more frustrating than a leader without clarity.”
Find Glover Gill’s Music: Siggs Lagoon, Houston Waterloo Records, Austin
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| Playfulness in the Followership Role - Tova Moreno | 23 Jan 2022 | 00:35:49 | |
Tova Moreno is a theatrical tailor in NYC. She shares her observations of leading and following in her work with her mentor, Artur Allakhverdyan, at Artur & Tailors, Ltd. in New York City. We explore the role of play and lightness in sustaining healthy working relationships over time, and how she expresses these qualities through both followership and leadership. “Trust is what enables play to happen, and for me, play is what enables work satisfaction to happen.” Episode References: Artur & Tailors Bias Bespoke * | |||