When does U.S. law require Circle to freeze USDC? It's a question many are asking after a series of wallets were frozen in connection to a sealed civil case, and again after Solana's Drift Protocol was drained of $285 million.

Jacob Robinson is joined by Austin Campbell, founder of Zero Knowledge Consulting and adjunct professor at Columbia Business School, for a masterclass on the legal framework governing stablecoin freezes.

Timestamps:

➡️ 0:00 — Intro

➡️ 2:00 — The March 2026 freeze of 16 wallets tied to a sealed civil case

➡️ 4:31 — How bank freezes actually work

➡️ 7:27 — Circle's legal obligation to freeze

➡️ 9:40 — Does Circle's terms of service even apply to secondary holders?

➡️ 11:24 — The privity problem

➡️ 13:20 — The five-piece legal framework that functions like a safe harbor for institutions freezing assets

➡️ 16:43 — DeFi's second-order exposure to asset freezes

➡️ 18:29 — Can DeFi adapt?

➡️ 21:03 — Circle's response to the Drift exploit

➡️ 22:34 — DeFi and the legal system

➡️ 24:27 — Bitcoin as the ideologically consistent alternative

➡️ 28:18 — Why people want intermediaries with liability

➡️ 31:04 — The Drift exploit: why Circle should have frozen USDC

➡️ 36:34 — The exploit difficulty

➡️ 38:27 — Real world assets on chain: the DeFi trilemma

Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm that provides strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact.

Resources:

• 📓 Circle's April 10, 2026 statement on the Drift exploit and USDC freeze authority by Dante Disparte
• 📓 ZachXBT's X thread on Circle's USDC freeze history

Also: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter as the world's shortest legal newsletter! You can ⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠. https://lawofcode.beehiiv.com/

Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

What are the risks of allowing financial institutions to cut off access to the economy for lawful but controversial activity?

Rainey Reitman is a civil liberties advocate and the author of Transaction Denied, a comprehensive investigation into debanking, financial censorship, and the growing role of financial institutions in regulating speech. She previously worked at the Electronic Frontier Foundation and co-founded the Freedom of the Press Foundation.

Timestamps:

➡️ 1:20 — Why cash functions as a civil liberty (privacy + censorship resistance)
➡️ 3:21 — What inspired Transaction Denied and early experiences with debanking
➡️ 5:20 — The Chelsea Manning Support Network PayPal freeze
➡️ 8:27 — Operation Chokepoint and the rise of financial censorship
➡️ 11:25 — “Banking while Muslim” and over-compliance with sanctions
➡️ 15:08 — The Patriot Act and incentives for financial surveillance
➡️ 17:12 — Financial intermediaries and the power to block transactions
➡️ 17:48 — Bitcoin, custodians, and whether crypto solves debanking
➡️ 19:33 — Why financial censorship affects everyone—not just targeted groups
➡️ 21:58 — NRA v. Vullo and the limits of government pressure on banks

Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact

Resources:

📚 Pre-order Transaction Denied

📖 The Patriot Act 

👩‍⚖️ Supreme Court decision in National Rifle Association v. Vullo

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Crypto’s current policy window in Washington is a rare opportunity to pass market structure legislation. What happens if the industry walks away from a compromise now?

Bill Hughes, Senior Counsel and Director of Global Regulatory Matters at Consensys, joins the podcast to discuss crypto market structure and stablecoin policy.

Timestamps

➡️ 1:10 — Why Agriculture and Banking Committees shape crypto legislation
➡️ 4:20 — How agencies influence drafting behind the scenes
➡️ 6:40 — Stablecoin yield and illicit finance: the real sticking points
➡️ 9:20 — DeFi regulation debates
➡️ 17:00 — Is the Clarity Act likely to pass in 2026?
➡️ 18:00 — Ethics provisions and political tensions
➡️ 20:13 — Coinbase’s strategy
➡️ 26:35 — Stablecoin yield fights
➡️ 33:00 — Legislative timelines
➡️ 45:36 — What to watch next

Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact

Resources:

📓 The latest market structure discussion draft (banking committee)

📓 ⁠The GENIUS Act

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Justin Daniels is a cybersecurity SME and M&A attorney at Baker Donelson, where he advises corporate clients on the deployment and scaling of technology that ranges from SaaS, Fintech and data centers to autonomous vehicles, drones and cryptocurrency. Justin has co-authored a book (Data Reimagined: Building Trust One Byte at a Time) designed to show businesses how to leverage privacy and security practices to transform their relationships with customers and earn their trust.

In this episode, we discuss cybersecurity and crypto, with a deep dive into the Axie Infinity hack.

Show highlights:

[5:00] Hosting servers and security

[19:00] Cybersecurity and digital assets

[22:00] Axie Infinity Hack

[34:00] Digital trust

& much more.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Three of the brightest minds in crypto law discuss LexPunK highlights from 2022, touch on disclosures regimes, sufficient decentralization, compare crypto native remedies to the current legal system, and much more.  

Gabriel Shapiro (@lex_node) is General Counsel at Delphi Labs. Sarah Brennan (@SH_Brennan) is General Counsel for both Delphi Research and Delphi Ventures. Marc Goldich (@marcgoldich) is General Counsel of Proximity Labs. 

Show highlights: 

[2:00] LexPunK highlights from 2022 

[10:00] DAO Defense Manual 

[14:00] Reg ATS 

[20:00] Disclosure in crypto 

[31:00] Social slashing and crypto native remedies 

[54:00] Decentralization, legally 

[58:00] What the group is keeping an eye on in 2023 

& much more. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. 

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can subscribe here. 

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Michael Selig (@MikeSeligEsq) is counsel in the Asset Management Department of the law firm Willkie Farr & Gallagher and part of the firm’s crypto practice. Michael’s practice centers on the application of financial regulation to crypto and web3 technology networks and products, including blockchains and crypto assets. Michael previously worked at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission in the office of former Chair Chris Giancarlo, also known as “CryptoDad,” who he now works with again in private practice at Willkie.

In this conversation, Michael shares his experience at the CFTC and provides best practices for dealing with regulators. We also discuss his CoinDesk article What If Regulators Wrote Rules for Crypto?, LBRY, Telegram and the application of securities laws to crypto.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can subscribe here.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Marco Ciarlariello is a member of the Business Law Group and serves as the Chair of the Blockchain & Cryptocurrency Group at Cassels Brock & Blackwell LLP. Marco is a commercial lawyer with a practice that focuses on intellectual property, information technology and data privacy in the digital asset space. Marco works extensively with a range of clients in the digital asset space, including service providers, NFT issuers, designers and developers. Marco also frequently works with clients in the creative, sports and entertainment industries.

This conversation provides a list of IP considerations for NFT projects.

Show highlights:

[2:04] Copyright law

[5:20] When NFT projects should approach a lawyer re: IP

[9:30] Copyright ownership

[13:20] Transferring copyright

[18:40] Moral rights

[29:20] Legal considerations for NFT projects

[46:00] NFT licenses

& much more.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Jason Gottlieb (@ohaiom) is a Partner at Morrison Cohen LLP, where he chairs the Digital Assets group and the White Collar and Regulatory Enforcement practice group. Jason is the principal author of the MoCo Cryptocurrency Litigation Tracker and was named to the National Law Journal‘s inaugural list of Cryptocurrency, Blockchain and Fintech Trailblazers. 

Show highlights:

[1:50] Refco

[6:40] Why crypto

[19:00] DAO member liability

[26:00] Legal wrappers

& much more.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Greg Xethalis (@xethalis) is General Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer at Multicoin Capital. He is on the board at the Association for Digital Asset Markets & Fordham Law Alumni Association. Greg also is a senior lecturing fellow at Duke Law, where he co-taught Blockchain and FinTech Law and Policy. 

This episode offers a deep dive into the GBTC, Bitcoin-backed ETPs and the Investment Act of 1940.

Show highlights:

[1:45] Genesis block

[9:25] Bitcoin ETP

[14:20] GBTC

[17:00] Shadow ETP

[26:00] Algorithmic stablecoins

& much more.

--

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Aaron Wright (@awrigh01) is the CEO and co-founder of @TributeLabsXYZ, as well as @TheLAOOfficial, @flamingoDAO, & many more. He’s a Professor at Cardozo Law, authored a book relating to the laws surrounding blockchain technology: Blockchain and the Law: The Rule of Code, and wrote many great articles. Before this, Aaron was a successful entrepreneur, having sold his first company to Wikia - the for-profit version of Wikipedia. Today, Aaron is a renowned thought-leader in the blockchain space at the forefront of DAOs.

Show highlights:

[2:00] Aaron's first business, Armchair GM

[6:40] Aaron's introduction to crypto

[11:00] Current stage of crypto

[13:00] Writing Blockchain and the Law

[24:00] Tribute Labs

[29:00] DAOs in 5 years

& much more.

Aaron’s spoken on many other podcasts, which you can find here:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c54PzVtpL60,
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwERbY9MUok,
• https://podcasts.apple.com/kz/podcast/a-dao-masterclass-with-aaron-wright/id1438148082?i=1000503097469,
• https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3VuY2hhaW5lZC5saWJzeW4uY29tL3VuY2hhaW5lZA/episode/NjY0ZjZjODYtNjg3OS00ZmU5LThhNjEtNGFmMDE4ZDY0YmQy ,
• https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9zZWVkY2x1Yi5saWJzeW4uY29tL3Jzcw/episode/YWQxNGMwYTQtYzE4Ni00N2NlLWE3YmEtZWI3MGZkNWI2MGUx?hl=en-CA&ved=2ahUKEwjYyfHL-9D4AhVTbc0KHXn3AlEQjrkEegQIChAU&ep=6.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Securities regulators in the United States have repeatedly asserted that most fungible blockchain-based crypto assets are clearly securities under current law. This assertion is incorrect. An exhaustive review of the relevant appellate case law and the related legal scholarship demonstrates that this position is inconsistent with the Supreme Court’s definition of the term “investment contract” as developed by federal appellate courts for nearly a century.

This is a panel discussion on the paper by the DLx Law (@DLxLawLLP) team, "The Ineluctable Modality of Securities Law: Why Fungible Crypto Assets are Not Securities.” It is a two-part series, where both Eric Hess (@hess_legal) and I (@JacobRobinsonJD) interview members of the DLx team. 

You can find part 2 on Eric's podcast, the Encrypted Economy, here. 

Guests

Lewis Cohen (@NYcryptolawyer) is a co-founder of DLx Law, where his practice is focused on the use of blockchain and tokenization across capital markets. Lewis is also recognized by Chambers Global as one of only five lawyers in “Band 1” for Legal: Blockchain & Cryptocurrencies. 

Gregory Strong is an attorney at DLx Law, where he focuses on advising entities regarding legal issues associated with the adoption of blockchain technology. Prior to joining DLx Law, Greg was a Deputy Attorney General in the Delaware Department of Justice. He served as the Director of the Investor Protection Unit for three years and was responsible for administering and enforcing the provisions of the Delaware Securities Act. 

Sarah Chen (@sarahcwy143) is an attorney at DLx Law, where, along with her colleagues, she focuses on matters related to the use of blockchain technology, including general corporate, venture financing, securities laws and financial regulations. Prior to joining DLx Law, Sarah was a senior associate at a top M&A practice in New York. Sarah received her B.A. from New York University, and her J.D. from Columbia Law School. 

Freeman Lewin (@Freeman_Lewin) is an attorney at DLx Law, where, along with his colleagues, he focuses on securities and financial regulatory matters related to blockchain and cryptocurrency projects and institutional investors. Freeman received his B.A. in Religion from Concordia University in Montreal and his J.D. from Yeshiva University Cardozo School of Law where he was part of the Cardozo Blockchain Project. 

Notes

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Andrew "Drew" Hinkes (@propelforward) is a partner in K&L Gates Miami office and the Co-Chair of its Global crypto practice. Drew is an Adjunct Professor of Law at the NYU School of Law, where he co-teaches "Digital Currency, Blockchains, and the Future of the Financial Services Industry.” Since 2019, Drew has been an advisor to the Uniform Law Commission’s Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) and Emerging Technologies Digital Assets Working Group, focusing on commercial transactions involving digital assets.

Dr Andrea Tosato (@Andrea_Tosato) is an Associate Professor in Commercial Law at the School of Law of the University of Nottingham and a Visiting Associate Professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School. Andrea was actively involved in the ULC/ALI UCC and Emerging Technologies Committee that drafted the amendments to the UCC to accommodate emerging technology developments. At present, he is contributing to the adoption and enactment process of this novel legal framework at state level. 

Show highlights

[3:40] What is Article 12?

[15:40] Process of creating Article 12

[30:00] Controllable electronic records

[42:00] Benefits of Article 12

[49:00] Filing financial statements

& much more

Links

Article: Carla L. Reyes, Creating Cryptolaw for the Uniform Commercial Code

Article: Kara J. Burce, Christopher K. Odinet, and Andrea Tosato, The Private Law of Stablecoins

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Bill Hughes (@BillHughesDC) is senior counsel and director of global regulatory matters at ConsenSys Software, which is behind MetaMask, Infura, and various other software supporting the programmable blockchain ecosystem. Bill focuses on the diverse and ever evolving crypto global regulatory landscape, and the legal and public policy issues with which ConsenSys and the broader crypto ecosystem is grappling. Bill joined ConsenSys after serving as an Associate Deputy Attorney General at the Department of Justice. Bill also has served at the White House, where he oversaw various operational components. 

Show highlights: 

[2:00] The state of crypto post-FTX 

[12:00] Smart contracts  

[16:40] The White House 

[24:00] Bill's role at ConsenSys 

[31:00] Specializing in a legal career 

[39:00] Money Crypto & Tech Crypto 

& much more. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. 

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here. 

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

How should employees, contractors, and companies think about token compensation? What are the legal, tax, and governance risks?

Jessica Furr is a lawyer focused on crypto compensation, governance, and market structure, and the author of Read the Fine Print on Token Compensation. Brandon Ferrick is a crypto and securities lawyer who advises companies on token incentive plans, equity compensation, and regulatory compliance.

Timestamps:

➡️ 1:28 — Why tokens are not equity (and why people assume they are)
➡️ 3:32 — Why token compensation exists alongside equity
➡️ 6:39 — What documents to look for in a token comp arrangement
➡️ 9:24 — Are tokens securities? How lawyers actually approach classification
➡️ 11:57 — Restricted Token Awards (RTAs) vs. Restricted Token Units (RTUs)
➡️ 13:28 — How tax treatment drives RTA vs. RTU decisions
➡️ 16:49 — What an 83(b) election is and why it matters for tokens
➡️ 21:16 — What employees should negotiate and clarify upfront
➡️ 25:45 — Emerging trends in token compensation structures
➡️ 28:28 — Where token compensation could go next

Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org.

Resources:

📕 Jessica and Brandon's paper Read the Fine Print: Token Compensation

📄 Rule 701 of the Securities Act

📓 Dragonfly Compensation Report

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

The DAO Research Collective (@DAOResearchCo) is a non-profit accelerating DAO functionality by procuring and open-sourcing research foundational to effective DAO operation. Their DAO Library aggregates and curates DAO research on a single platform. It is a public good that will always be accessible to the community at no cost. 

Connor Spelliscy (@c_spelliscy) is the Founder and Executive Director of the DAO Research Collective. He is a crypto researcher and advocate, primarily focused on DAOs. Connor previously co-founded the Blockchain Association and the Canadian Web3 Council.

David Kerr (@David_M_Kerr) is the Head of Research at the DAO Research Collective and the Principal of Cowrie LLC. At Cowrie, David uses ten years of experience in tax strategy, financial accounting, and risk advisory in the tech industry to produce research and advise crypto projects.

Show highlights

[1:00] Why start the DRC?

[10:30] How the DRC adds value to the community

[15:00] Why DAOs are important

[24:00] DAOs and future regulation

[37:00] DRC's roadmap

[50:00] How people can get involved with the DRC

& much more.

Closing

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

PSA: Ledn is looking to hire crypto-focused, financial-payments savvy lawyer as their Senior Counsel. You can learn more about the role here: https://jobs.lever.co/ledn. Tell them you heard about the job from the Law of Code podcast.

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible (and free) resource here.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Dane Lund (@lund_dane) is Head DAO Architect at Alliance, the leading Web3 accelerator and founder community. He started his career as an attorney at Wilkie Farr and pivoted into finance as investment banker and investor. 

Show highlights

[3:19] Defining DAOs

[4:45] Alliance DAO

[10:00] How projects get involved with Alliance

[11:30] Dane's DAO Lecture @ Cornell

[41:00] Law in the Metaverse

[47:30] Finding a web3 lawyer

[52:00] How attorney's can better work with clients

[55:00] DCCPA

& much more.

Resources

Dane's lecture notes for Cornell's Crypto Assets and Web3 Seminar

US Securities Primer

Finding and Vetting Web3 Attorneys: Five Lessons

Closing

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

PSA: Ledn is looking to hire crypto-focused, financial-payments savvy lawyer as their Senior Counsel. You can learn more about the role here: https://jobs.lever.co/ledn. Tell them you heard about the job from the Law of Code podcast.

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible (and free) resource here.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Carol Van Cleef (@Carol_VanCleef) is an internationally recognized authority and pioneer in legal issues involving cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. As chair of Bradley’s Blockchain and Digital Assets practice, Carol leads the firm’s virtual currencies and blockchain work to help clients navigate the complex, dynamic and rapidly evolving issues in these areas. Carol is also an anti-money laundering specialist and has created compliance training programs for state regulators, bank executives and beyond.

Show highlights:

[7:00] E-Gold

[12:00] Classifying digital assets

[22:00] Tornado Cash

[32:40] Applying sanctions

[40:00] De-banking

& much more. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

PSA: Ledn is looking to hire crypto-focused, financial-payments savvy lawyer as their Senior Counsel. You can learn more about the role here: https://jobs.lever.co/ledn. Tell them you heard about the job from the Law of Code podcast.

Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible (and free) resource here.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Paul Grewal (@iampaulgrewal) is the Chief Legal Officer of Coinbase, where he is responsible for Coinbase’s legal, compliance, global intelligence, risk management and government relations groups. Before joining Coinbase, Paul was Vice President and Deputy General Counsel at Facebook.  

Show highlights: 

[1:40] Paul's role as Chief Legal Officer @ Coinbase 

[6:30] Introduction to crypto as a magistrate judge 

[12:30] Rule-making in crypto law 

[16:30] Listing assets on Coinbase 

[22:00] Tornado Cash lawsuit 

[32:00] Remaining grounded 

[34:25] Playing offense against regulators 

[38:00] Regulation by enforcement 

& much more.  

Resources: 

Stanford Talk

Proof of Alignment

Coinbase does not list securities

The Crypto Securities Market is Waiting to be Unlocked. But First We Need Workable Rules

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. 

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Rebecca Rettig (@RebeccaRettig1) is the General Counsel of the Aave Companies (@AaveAave). Rebecca began her legal career at Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP in New York, litigating complex commercial disputes; prior to joining the Aave Companies, Rebecca was a partner at Manatt, Phelps & Phillips LLP in the financial services group, representing blockchain and crypto clients. 

In this conversation, Rebecca shares her thoughts on DeFi regulation, as well as:

[5:30] Bringing clients through the regulatory enforcement process 

[6:45] Ooki DAO

[16:00] Regulatory Catch-22

[23:00] DeFi & Regulation: Can they co-exist?

[37:00] MiCA

& much more.

You can watch Rebecca's talk at EthCC here.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

PSA: Ledn is looking to hire crypto-focused, financial-payments savvy lawyer as their Senior Counsel. You can learn more about the role here: https://jobs.lever.co/ledn. Tell them you heard about the job from the Law of Code podcast.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Have you ever wondered about the history of the CFTC, SEC, or other regulatory agencies? In this episode, Marisa Coppel walks me through each America regulatory agency that impacts crypto - who they are, why they were created and what role they play in the crypto ecosystem.

Marisa Tashman Coppel (@mtcoppel) is policy counsel at the Blockchain Association, where she helps develop and advocate for policy positions on behalf of the crypto industry as well as manages long-term legal projects and strategic litigation. She also writes a newsletter called Becoming Undefined, which focuses on themes of spirituality and self-discovery.

Show highlights:

[11:00] Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC)

[16:00] Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC)

[21:00] Department of Justice (DOJ)

[25:00] Treasury Department & Sanctions

[39:00] Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB)

& much more.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Ledn is looking to hire crypto-focused, financial-payments savvy lawyer as their Senior Counsel. You can learn more about the role here: https://jobs.lever.co/ledn. Tell them you heard about the job from the Law of Code podcast.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

This episode outlines Pre-DAO and Post-DAO Legal Risk Assessment, an article written by Kevin Chen (@anothrkevinchen) in collaboration with the DAO Research Collective (@DAOResearchCo). Kevin is an attorney at Homiak Law LLC based in Denver, Colorado. He advises cryptoasset and blockchain technology companies on a wide variety of matters such as formation of new startup companies, venture financings, and securities law compliance.

You can find the full article on the Law of Code substack, here.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

The 'Can’t Be Evil' licenses are a set of six NFT licenses developed by lawyers and operators in web 3 - each license grants “different sets of rights with different degrees of permissiveness”. The licenses have been deployed on Arweave (a decentralized storage, similar to IPFS) and can be directly linked on-chain by smart contracts.

The licenses are available on the a16z website (document containing the six licenses) or a16z's repository on Github. Miles Jennings and Chris Dixon published an introduction with background on the licenses that is also available on the a16z website.

Miles Jennings (@milesjennings) is general counsel and head of decentralization at Andreessen Horowitz (a16z) crypto, where he advises the firm's portfolio companies and DAOs on decentralization and protocol design, oversees the firm's investments, and works on regulatory and policy matters. You can find Miles' conversation with Laura Shin here.

Mark Radcliffe (@markfradcliffe) is senior partner at DLA Piper, where he assists companies in strategic intellectual property advice and venture financing. Mark has worked in Silicon Valley for 30+ years and has significant experience in applying the law to the issues raised by new technologies, such as open source software, blockchain, and domain names. In 1994, he assisted Network Solutions, Inc. in developing the first domain dispute resolution system - which is still the basis for the system in use today. The link to the recording of Mark's NFT webinar is here: Non-Fungible Tokens: Technology and Legal Overview | Events | DLA Piper Global Law Firm. 

Ghaith Mahmood (@GhaithMahmoodLW) is a partner in the Los Angeles office of the law firm Latham & Watkins LLP, and a leader in the firm’s Digital Assets and Web3 practice group, and also of the firm’s Video Games and Esports group. Ghaith advises clients on all aspects of intellectual property and technology transactions, from developing, licensing, and commercializing IP assets, to advising on the IP aspects of strategic transactions.  In the blockchain space, he has particular expertise advising NFT projects of all shapes and sizes, from some of the biggest NFT platforms and marketplaces in the world, to individual NFT projects trying to figure out what rights and utility to grant to their NFT holders.

Show highlights:

[3:00] Why draft these licenses?

[13:30] What projects should use these licenses

[16:00] How NFT projects can incorporate the licenses

[21:00] Lawful ownership

[26:00] Terminating sublicenses

[34:00] Notice

[39:00] Hard forks

[45:40] Fractionalizing

& much more.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Amber D. Scott (@OutlierCanada) specializes in Canadian anti-money laundering (AML), counter terrorist financing (CTF), privacy, and regulatory compliance. In addition to being a Certified Anti-Money Laundering Specialist (CAMS) Amber is also a Certified Privacy Professional (CIPP). In 2013, she founded Outlier Solutions Inc. to provide anti-money laundering (AML) solutions to Canadian reporting entities.

Show highlights:

[1:55] Apple gift card story

[6:50] Why work in AML and compliance

[14:20] When projects should bring on compliance specialists

[21:00] What is money laundering

[22:10] Ozark

[24:00] 3-5% of GDP is associated with money-laundering

[35:00] Crypto & money laundering

[42:40] History of money laundering

[102:00] Project Participate

& much more

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Nabil Manji is the Senior VP, Head of Crypto & Emerging Business at Worldpay from FIS Global. Worldpay is the world’s largest payment processing company (and largest company you've never heard of). The company provides payment and technology services to merchants and financial institutions and processes approximately $2 trillion in volume annually.  In June 2019, Worldpay was acquired for $43 billion and merged into Fidelity National Information Services (FIS). 

Nabil also represents Worldpay from FIS on the Governing Council of Hedera, Klaytn, and is a Partner/Advisor at Covalence Capital.

Show highlights:

[2:00] Genesis block

[6:30] Conducting business internationally

[9:40] What is Worldpay? 

[10:30] Traditional payment processing

[15:00] Worldpay & crypto companies

[26:00] Speed of innovation in crypto

[39:50] Working with legal & compliance

& much more

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

How do prediction markets actually work, and why are state gaming regulators and the CFTC battling over who has jurisdiction to regulate?

Samir Patel is an attorney at Holland & Knight, where he focuses on gambling law, prediction markets, and the intersection of crypto, derivatives, and state gaming regulation.

Timestamps:

➡️ 1:02 — What prediction markets are and how binary contracts work

➡️ 2:51 — Prediction markets vs. sports gambling: what’s legally different?

➡️ 4:02 — Are prediction markets actually “on-chain”?

➡️ 7:37 — The CFTC vs. state gaming regulators: who has jurisdiction?

➡️ 9:55 — Swaps, self-certification, and the Commodities Exchange Act

➡️ 12:06 — How courts are splitting on federal preemption

➡️ 14:39 — Why the CFTC’s silence matters more than the lawsuits themselves

➡️ 18:58 — DCMs vs. FCMs: mapping the regulatory plumbing

➡️ 22:00 — Prediction markets as information tools, not just bets

➡️ 23:30 — What this litigation could mean for crypto and DeFi governance

Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org.

Resources:

📓 Commodity Exchange Act (CEA)

📓 CFTC Rule 40.11

📄 CFTC Staff Advisory Withdrawal of Prior Guidance on Events Contracts

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Olta Andoni (@AndoniOlta) is the Deputy General Counsel at Ava Labs, a company that helps launch decentralized finance applications on Avalanche. She was previously the Chief Legal Officer at Nifty’s, has lectured for Chicago-Kent, College of Law, and is a writer for Coindesk. 

In this conversation, Olta and I discussion the new CryptoPunks license, the Yuga Labs v. Ryder Ripps case, and the importance of NFT IP licenses.

Show hightlights:

[7:00] CryptoPunks license

[17:00] Commercial rights & $100K limits

[24:00] Choosing which IP license to grant

[28:00] Ryder Ripps case

[36:00] Owl explains

& much more.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Larry Florio (@LarryFlorio) is General Counsel at Delphia Technologies Inc., one of the most innovative data-drive investment DAO projects in the world. Larry previously held senior counsel roles with several prominent blockchain-focused software developers.

In this conversation, we cover business goals vs legal goals, the 80/20 principal, and how crypto law is developing.

Show highlights:

[1:20] Genesis block

[4:00] TradFi

[8:30] Privacy

[11:00] Business mindset in a legal role

[20:00] Get comfortable being uncomfortable

[26:00] Delphia

[36:00] How Larry starts each day

[41:00] Life online

[48:00] @thing3_xyz

[54:00] Habits & advice

& much more.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Miller Whitehouse-Levine (@millercwl) is the Policy Director at the DeFi Education Fund (@fund_defi). With oversight from the DeFi Education Fund’s grants committee, Miller has overall strategic and operational responsibility for the execution of the Education Fund’s mission and goals. Prior to joining the fund, Miller led the Blockchain Association’s policy operation and worked at Goldstein Policy Solutions on a range of public policy issues, including crypto. 

In this conversation, we cover all aspects of the Tornado Cash saga, how the DeFi Education Fund works, and outline the interplay between the various government and international agencies governing crypto.

Show highlights:

[1:30] Genesis block

[5:20] Lobbying and policy-making

[14:30] DeFi 101

[24:00] DeFi Education Fund

[28:00] Tornado Cash sanctions

[43:15] Freedom of Information Act Request

[52:30] Privacy & the surveillance state

& much more. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Patrick Hansen (@paddi_hansen) serves as crypto venture advisor at Presight Capital, a global venture fund with +$600m AUM and 50+ startups in its portfolio. Patrick previously  worked as head of strategy & business development at crypto-wallet startup Unstoppable Finance and head of blockchain at Bitkom, Europe’s largest tech association, where he led crypto-related regulatory work, research, and partnerships.

This conversation covers all things crypto regulation (EU, travel rule, stablecoins etc.) and what Patrick expects the landscape to look like in the future. We’ll also touch on best practices he’s seen in his research and what makes the EU a global leader in crypto regulation.

Show highlights:

[2:22] Genesis block

[5:10] Building a presence on Twitter

[10:00] MiCA & TFR in the EU

[23:30] Principles of EU regulation & blockchain

[28:04] Digital Euro

[37:00] EU Stablecoins

[43:50] Global coordination on regulation

& much more.

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to the newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Marc Boiron (@boironattorney) is the Chief Legal Officer of the Polygon companies and a strategic advisor at Variant Fund, an early-stage fund investing in web3. He’s also a board member of the DeFi Education Fund. Marc recently published an excellent article, titled “Sufficient Decentralization: A playbook for Web3 builders and lawyers.” 

In this episode, we dive deep into Marc's article to highlight how builders and lawyers should think about sufficient decentralization. We also touch on Marc’s journey and his thoughts on the current state of crypto regulation.

Show highlights:

[2:03] Marc's introduction to Bitcoin

[9:27] Why decentralization is important

[17:08] Best practices in decentralization

[24:00] The critical point in Marc's paper

[37:40] Airdrops & the Howey Test

[42:00] Mutation doctrine

[53:00] Tools for DAO communities

& much more.

Resources:

Sufficient Decentralization: A Playbook for web3 Builders and Lawyers

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to the newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Yitzy Hammer and Samuel Goldfaden are co-founders of DLT Law and two crypto-focused lawyers based in Israel. Yitzy has been working with tech companies for the past 6 years on M&A, IP, privacy (CIPP/E certified), and corporate and commercial law-related legal issues. Samuel specializes in AML compliance and financial regulation. 

Both Yitzy and Samuel worked for many years at Herzog, Fox & Neeman, Israel's largest law firm, including through the 2017 ICO craze. Recognizing a need for tailored services in the web3 space, they launched DLT Law, a unique practice where they work exclusively with crypto and blockchain-related products and services - NFT creators, DAOs, exchanges, and funds. In addition, they provide strategic consulting to web3 projects, drawing on their experience in the industry.

Show highlights:

[2:00] Genesis block

[8:50] Choosing to start a crypto-law firm

[10:50] Learnings from NFT NYC

[15:15] Should securities laws apply to NFTs

[19:20] The NFTs of the future

[22:40] Revisiting Yuga Labs vs Ryder Ripps

& much more.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Bill Richards is an attorney and partner at Richards & Moskowitz PLC, a boutique Arizona firm serving the civil litigation needs of business, government and individuals. Through nearly three decades of trial practice, Bill has developed an expertise in successfully managing the most complex litigation matters. In private practice, he has represented global banking institutions, government bodies, judges, multibillion-dollar investment firms, as well as victims of consumer fraud and civil rights violations.

When he is not advising clients, Bill is an adjunct professor for the Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law at Arizona State University, where he teaches trial advocacy. He is also an avid endurance runner. 

Gideon Esakoff (@gid3xn) is an attorney at Richards & Moskowitz, where he represents businesses, government agencies and individuals. Gideon also studies the legal and social implications of emerging technologies including artificial intelligence and blockchain. 

Show highlights:

[4:00] Identifying warning signs

[9:50] The automobile is analogous to crypto

[16:00] Self-governing devs & the law society

[25:00] Storytelling in the courtroom

[30:50] Avoiding crypto litigation 101

[44:50] What commercial lawyers can learn from litigators

[57:00] Being yourself

[75:30] Importance of understanding the facts

& much more.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Kelsie Nabben (@kelsiemvn) is a researcher of decentralized technology communities. As an ethnographic researcher, she is interested in the human outcomes of digital infrastructure, blockchain community culture, and algorithmic governance. Kelsie is also a recipient of a PhD scholarship at the RMIT University Centre of Excellence for Automated Decision-Making & Society, a Fellow at the DAO Research Collective, and a researcher in the Digital Ethnography Research Centre and Blockchain Innovation Hub.

Show highlights:

[1:51] Kelsie's introduction to Bitcoin

[6:15] Ethnography & her current role

[13:00] How to study a DAO

[15:05] Decentralization

[21:19] Autonomousness & Automation

[30:22] Sovereignty and DAOs

[43:00] Resilience and "Good Governance"

[56:55] Habits & advice

Show links & Kelsie's writing:

Blockchain Security as “People Security”: Applying Sociotechnical Security to Blockchain Technology

Towards a participatory digital ethnography of blockchain governance

Steven Levy, Crypto: How the Code Rebels Beat the Government Saving Privacy in the Digital Age

Aligning ‘Decentralized Autonomous Organization’ to Precedents in Cybernetics

Imagining Human-Machine Futures: Blockchain-based 'Decentralized Autonomous Organizations'

What is Resilience?

Towards a model of resilience in decentralised socio-technical infrastructure

DAO Vulnerabilities: A Multi-Scale DAO Ecosystem Mapping Tool Towards Computer-Aided Governance

DAO Vulnerabilities: A Map of Lido Governance Risks & Opportunities

kong.land/

‘Crypto-States’ Will Compete With Corporates in the Metaverse

A collection of Kelsie's writing

Mike Wawszczak (@dotwavsz) is General Counsel at @alliancedao and a valuable contributor to the DAO ecosystem. Mike has written extensive twitter threads and insightful articles on all things DAOs. 

This conversation touches on the origins of Mt. Gox, philosophical issues with the current legal system, and the future of DAOs.

Show highlights:

[2:00] Magic the Gathering & Mt. Gox

[7:00] Online Pseudonymity 

[11:00] Law & Economics

[17:00] Enforcing the Law

[23:00] Advice & Habits

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

John Deaton (@JohnEDeaton1) is the Managing Partner of the Deaton Law Firm, a law practice he founded in 2006. John is also the founder of Crypto-Law.us, a Bitcoin, ETH, XRP and crypto enthusiast, and an entrepreneur.

A former Marine-turned-class-action lawyer, John became interested in crypto in 2016, and eventually invested in Ripple coin, XRP. When the SEC sued Ripple over allegations that XRP was an unregistered security, John raised concerns about the agency’s case, which he didn’t think was warranted, in a legal filing as a private citizen on his own behalf. 

John filled me in on the entire saga so far, as well as what's on the horizon for XRP.

Show highlights:

[2:00] John's intro to crypto

[8:00] Difference between XRP and Ripple

[14:00] John explains the case for XRP being decentralized

[22:00] Why John joined the Ripple vs SEC lawsuit

[30:00] Why the SEC included XRP in the Ripple lawsuit

[41:00] Where the XRP & Ripple case stands

& much more. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

What could the future of U.S. crypto regulation look like from the CFTC—and how should regulators approach tokenization, prediction markets, and stablecoins as digital finance moves on-chain?

Chris Giancarlo is Senior Counsel for Corporate and Financial Services at Willkie Farr & Gallagher and the former Chair of the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, where he oversaw the regulation of futures, options, and swaps markets, including the launch of Bitcoin futures.

Timestamps:

➡️ 1:15 — Advice for new CFTC Chair Mike Selig

➡️ 3:06 — Why crypto inverts the CFTC’s traditional regulatory model

➡️ 6:53 — How the SEC and CFTC should divide authority over digital assets

➡️ 8:54 — Why the commodity vs. security distinction still matters

➡️ 15:13 — DTCC’s no-action relief and the future of tokenized market infrastructure

➡️ 19:27 — Will TradFi absorb crypto—or will crypto reshape TradFi?

➡️ 21:46 — Prediction markets, federal preemption, and state resistance

➡️ 27:40 — Why prediction markets need regulation, not suppression

➡️ 29:42 — Stablecoins, privacy, and exporting U.S. values through digital dollars

Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org.

Resources

📺 Recording of the CFTC / SEC Joint Event on Harmonization

📓 GENIUS Act

📄 DTCC No Action Letter

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Adam Sternbach (@adamsternbach) is General Counsel at Fractional (@fractional_art), former Counsel to New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy (@GovMurphy) and a startup/VC attorney. 

This wide-ranging episode covers the BAYC, owning a valuable NFT, working as general counsel, and much more.

Show highlights:

[1:37] Buying & owning a Bored Ape

[11:20] Explaining NFTs

[21:00] Counsel for Governor Murphy

[27:00] General counsel role

[36:00] NFT legal considerations

[41:00] Staying on top of crypto law

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Peter Van Valkenburgh (@valkenburgh) is the director of research for Coin Center, the leading non-profit focused on the policy issues facing cryptocurrencies. He was previously the Google Policy Fellow for TechFreedom and is a graduate of NYU School of Law, as well as a self-taught designer and coder.

In this episode, we discuss Peter's role at Coin Center, the U.S. Constitution & Crypto, and the SEC's definition of an exchange.

Show highlights:

[1:10] Genesis block

[9:20] Writing 

[13:50] Societal impact

[18:00] Decentralization

[24:00] Exchanges

[29:10] Legal interpretations

[34:00] Biden's Executive Order

[42:00] Constitutional law

[48:45] "Owning" Bitcoin

[55:00] Interviewing Edward Snowden

[58:30] Advice for recent grads

[60:16] Seed oils

Links:

Peter's writing on Coin Center's website coincenter.org/people/peter-van-valkenburgh/

Seed oil blog: fireinabottle.net/

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Hester Peirce (@HesterPeirce) is a Commissioner at the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. She previously served as the director of the Financial Markets Working Group at George Mason University's Mercatus Center. 

This episode covers almost every pressing issue in crypto law, as Commissioner Peirce shares her thoughts on stablecoin regulation, the future of the SEC, the fourth prong of Howey & much, much more. 

Show highlights:

[1:50] Stablecoin regulation

[6:10] Regulatory philosophy

[12:00] Safe harbor update

[18:00] Information asymmetry vs code transparency

[22:00] Smart contracts

[24:00] Accredited investor exemptions

[28:00] Sufficient decentralization & DAOs

[34:00] Evolving tokens: from a security to non-security

[36:20] NFTs & securities law

[39:00] Bitcoin ETP

[43:00] Crypto custody

[47:00] Advice & habits

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

This conversation covers the latest Gitcoin funding round, along with the work of three prominent public goods orgs: The Blockchain Association, The DAO Research Collective, and the EU Crypto Initiative.  

Kristin Smith (@KMSmithDC) is the Executive Director at the Blockchain Association, where she leads the crypto industry’s development of a strategic roadmap for public policy. 

Connor Spelliscy (@c_spelliscy) runs the DAO Research Collective, which accelerates DAO functionality by procuring and open sourcing targeted research foundational to effective DAO operation. 

Marina Markezic (@MarinaMarkezic) is co-founder of the EU Crypto Initiative, alongside Florian Glatz and Simon Polrot, which aims to shape EU regulation to favor open, permissionless, decentralized applications leveraging blockchain technology. 

Gitcoin’s Grants Round 14 is almost upon us, and with it #ReFiSummer will be officially here. The event is kicking off on June 8th and running through June 23rd, 2022. Gitcoin is where the world’s leading web3 projects are born, validated & funded. This includes @Uniswap, @poapxyz & @BanklessHQ. Gitcoin has distributed over $60 million in total, including $40 million through grants alone. In just 3 years, they’ve helped provide funding for over 2500 grants from tens of thousands of unique contributors across 2 million+ contributions. 

Show highlights:  

[1:50] Importance of Web3 Advocacy 

[7:00] The Blockchain Association, the DRC, and the EU Crypto Initiative 

[13:00] Gitcoin Advocacy Round

[25:00] Educating Regulators 

[33:00] Importance of EU Policy 

[42:00] Habits & Advice. 

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. 

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Jordan Teague (@jordanteague) is an attorney and smart contract developer. In her crypto-native law practice, The Antifirm, she focuses on governance, regulatory, and other legal issues facing web3 organizations. Jordan is one of the core developers behind KaliDAO and a legal engineer with LexDAO.

In this episode, we discuss all things DAOs - legislation, potential, and legal structuring, as well as Jordan's journey into legal engineering, and what the future legal system looks like.

Show highlights:

[1:22] Genesis Block

[12:50] KaliDAO & Series LLC

[20:00] The Antifirm

[30:20] Ricardian Contracts

[44:00] Projects

[49:00] Habits & Life Advice

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Michael Mosier (@M_Mosier) is the General Counsel at ESPRESSO Systems, a scaling & privacy solution for Web3 applications. Michael was formerly the first in-house Counsel at cryptocurrency analytics and investigations firm Chainalysis.

Michael was previously Acting Director, as well as permanent Deputy Director & Digital Innovation Officer of the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), a bureau of the Treasury Department. As Acting Director, he oversaw FinCEN’s wide-ranging work to promote financial integrity and national security. As Digital Innovation Officer, he was dedicated to advancing FinCEN’s engagement with emerging technology and financial innovation.

Previously, Michael served as Associate Director at Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC). Before joining Treasury, Michael was Deputy Chief in the Department of Justice’s Money Laundering & Asset Recovery Section. He also served a tour at the White House National Security Council as Director for Transnational Organized Crime.

In this episode, we discuss his career in public service, what FinCEN is and why it's important, and what the future of privacy looks like in America.

Show highlights:

[1:50] Genesis Block

[7:00] FinCEN

[14:00] Money Laundering & Crypto

[23:00] Privacy

[29:00] Espresso Systems

[35:00] General Counsel Role

[44:00] Habits & Life Advice

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

This episode reviews the IP ownership rights associated with Board Ape #8398, after actor and producer Seth Green (who licensed it for his series, White Horse Tavern) was scammed in a phishing attack. The stolen NFT was then sold to "DarkWing84" for $200,000. This episode is largely based on an enlightening thread by James Grimmelmann (@grimmelm), who dove deep into the issue, with additional notes from prominent crypto lawyers Drew Hinkes (@propelforward), Jake Chervinsky (@jchervinsky), Preston Byrne (@prestonjbyrne), and others.

We also cover the recent decision in Jarkesy v. SEC, in which the Fifth Circuit essentially stated that the SEC must go through Federal courts in fraud cases. The implications may be greater than that, and this will be an important case impacting the future of the SEC. 

Other updates include a decision from Hermès International, et al. v Mason Rothschild, an update from LUNA, LexDAO's latest guidance on metaverse lawyering, and more.

Much credit for this episode goes to the incredible sources, including James Grimmelmann (@grimmelm), the CryptoLaw Newsletter (@cryptolaw_news), and a newsletter by two bright law students, Around the Blockchain - which covers everything happening within the crypto law space, every single week. You can find their newsletter on Substack, Around the Blockchain.

Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

Professor J.W. Verret (@JWVerret), teaches accounting and finance, securities law, M&A, corporate law and banking law at the George Mason University Law School. A Senior Advisor @messaricrypto, J.W. is a licensed CPA in the state of Virginia, is licensed in financial forensics by the AICPA, is a Certified Fraud Examiner and a Certified Valuation Analyst.  He has been a Visiting Professor at Stanford Law School.

J.W. served on the Investor Advisory Committee of the Securities and Exchange Commission, where he advised the SEC on matters of investor protection.  He serves on the Financial Accounting Standards Advisory Committee, which advises on the development of Generally Accepted Accounting Standards (GAAP).  He also serves as faculty liaison to the American College of Business Court Judges.  He previously worked as the Chief Economist at the U.S. House Financial Services Committee. J.W. holds a Bachelors degree in Financial Accounting, a Masters in Economic Policy from the Harvard Kennedy School of Government, and a J.D. from Harvard Law School.

In this wide-ranging conversation, we discuss J.W.'s work as an advisor at the SEC, his new position at Messari, the future of disclosure, securities laws, and much more.

Show highlights:

[3:00] J.W.'s introduction to Bitcoin

[9:40] Story behind his twitter header

[16:30] Learning quickly

[22:00] Senior Advisor at Messari

[27:00] Understanding Gary Gensler

[34:43] Reg X Proposal by LeXPunK

[40:00] Crypto regulation

[45:00] Expanding the Howey test

[51:00] Pillars of securities law

[59:00] Crypto as the modern printing press

[66:00] Decentralization Disclosure

[72:00] DAOs

[76:00] Habits & career advice

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Marco Santori (@msantoriESQ) is the Chief Legal Officer of Kraken Digital Asset Exchange. Known as the "Dean of Digital Currency Lawyers," Marco is a recognized authority in the law and policy of blockchain technologies. Prior to his move to Kraken, Marco was the Chief Legal Officer of Blockchain.com, as well as a Partner at both Cooley LLP and Pillsbury Winthrop, where he counseled banks, broker-dealers, exchanges, digital wallets, payment providers, and other companies making new and exciting uses of distributed ledger technology.

Marco is an author of the SAFT Project Whitepaper, a self-regulatory effort to curb Initial Coin Offerings. He is an advisor to the International Monetary Fund, the Blockchain Ambassador to the State of Delaware, and was the Chairman of the Regulatory Affairs Committee of the Bitcoin Foundation. He has been quoted by the Congressional Research Service, Bloomberg, the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Coindesk, Washington Post, The New Yorker, Wired, Entrepreneur.com and Crain's New York Business.

In this interview, Marco shares his journey from litigator to crypto lawyer, the importance & downside of big law, and the future of NFTs & DAOs with respect to the fourth prong of the Howey test.

Show highlights:

[2:15] Marco's introduction to crypto (& subsequent rug pull)

[11:35] Making great decisions

[18:40] Marco's journey to Kraken

[21:13] Building in crypto law

[26:40] Environmental misconceptions

[34:20] Building a crypto bank: Bank Charter Application

[39:10] Convincing regulators with examples

[44:00] DAOs & the "efforts of others"

[53:11] Stoicism 

Links:

Marco's website marcosantori.com

Daily stoic newsletter

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

The Collapse of UST and LUNA - This was the most eventful week in many months, but, unfortunately, the end result was that $500 billion was wiped off the total cryptocurrency market cap. A calculated attack on UST triggered Terra's LUNA to crash more than 99% over the past few days. This caused a corresponding fall and de-pegging in the price of UST, Terra's algorithmic, decentralized stablecoin.

This episode offers a deep dive into the events behind the $500 billion+ loss of value in the crypto space, as well as insight into how UST & Luna worked. We also cover the most recent updates in the crypto law space, including an NFT ruling from the UK and a DAO lawsuit in California. This episode pulled insights from the CryptoLaw Newsletter, Jake Chervinsky, Wassie Lawyer, @OnChainWizard, @ItsAlwaysZonny, and @tatianakoffman.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review or letting me know (@JacobRobinsonJD). You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Thanks to our sponsor - Hedera Hashgraph (@Hedera). Hedera is the most used, sustainable, enterprise-grade public network for the decentralized economy. They are looking to add bright legal minds to their team. You can review the available openings at hedera.com/future. When you apply, be sure to mention you heard about it on the Law of Code podcast!

Why are crypto custody rules for registered investment advisors due for modernization — and what could a future-proof framework look like?

Sarah Helena Brennan is the General Counsel for Delphi Ventures, and Jay Stolkin is the Deputy General Counsel at Multicoin Capital. 

Timestamps:

➡️ 0:05 — Why the custody rule matters for crypto

➡️ 1:27 — The SEC’s safeguarding proposal and why this paper was written

➡️ 5:58 — What the custody rule and “qualified custodians” actually require

➡️ 10:26 — Why digital assets challenge legacy custody assumptions

➡️ 14:47 — Fees, loss of utility, and concentration risk under the status quo

➡️ 18:21 — The case for optionality and a flexible custody framework

➡️ 22:53 — The five core tenets of cryptoasset safeguarding

➡️ 25:50 — Lessons from the privately offered securities exemption

➡️ 28:27 — On-chain verification, auditors, and real-time transparency

➡️ 32:16 — Where regulators may push back—and what comes next

Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact

Resources: 

📄 Sarah and Jay’s Whitepaper
📓 SEC Agency Rule List

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Jesse Pollak (@jessepollak) currently works on protocols, public goods, cities, and currencies at Coinbase & beyond (more coming soon). He previously led all Retail engineering at Coinbase, including building Coinbase, Coinbase Pro, and Coinbase Wallet. Way back when, Jesse started Clef and was an engineer at BuzzFeed. He also writes open source software and takes incredible photos.

You can find Jesse at jesse.xyz on ETH and on Twitter, Github, & LinkedIn.

In this episode, we discuss building at Coinbase, Jesse's introduction to Bitcoin during a conversation with Olaf Carlson-Wee (Polychain Capital CEO), his project to bring crypto awareness and knowledge to the city of Oakland, and much more.

Show highlights:

[1:30] A conversation with Olaf Carlson-Wee

[8:00] Cultivating coding skills

[19:30] Minting a CryptoPunk

[24:00] Online Pseudonymity

[32:00] Software-enabled corporations & the future of DAOs

[39:00] Perspective shifts in Web3

[42:00] Building @ Coinbase

[48:00] Oakland Community Currency

[54:00] Focus and discipline in Web 3

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Thanks to our sponsor - Hedera Hashgraph (@Hedera). Hedera is the most used, sustainable, enterprise-grade public network for the decentralized economy. They are looking to add bright legal minds to their team. You can review the available openings at hedera.com/future. When you apply, be sure to mention you heard about it here on the Law of Code podcast!

Laura Shin (@laurashin) is a crypto journalist, host of the Unchained podcast, and author of “The Cryptopians: Idealism, Greed, Lies, and the Making of the First Big Cryptocurrency Craze” (PublicAffairs, 2022). During the course of writing her book, she and her sources uncovered who they believe was behind the biggest whodunnit in crypto — the 2016 DAO attack on Ethereum.

Formerly a senior editor at Forbes, she was the first mainstream journalist to cover crypto full-time, and her podcasts and videos have had more than 19 million downloads and views. Shin has spoken about cryptocurrency at places such as TEDx San Francisco, the International Monetary Fund, Singularity University and the Oslo Freedom Forum.

In this interview, Laura shares her original intention behind writing The Cryptopians, interviewing Vitalik, and her favourite moments from the book!

Show highlights:

[2:30] Laura's first piece of journalism

[6:00] Full-time Bitcoin reporting

[11:00] Staying updated on crypto

[14:00] Laura's favourite moment writing The Cryptopians

[17:00] Self-care in crypto

[23:00] The importance of writing

[25:30] First week writing The Cryptopians

[33:30] Interviewing Vitalik

[39:00] Difficult moments

[48:00] Remaining neutral while reporting

[56:00] What was left out of The Cryptopians

[57:00] Truth vs Consequences 

[63:00] Legal side of crypto

[68:30] Other professions Laura considered

[73:40] Blind spots

[79:00] Religion & Crypto

[85:00] Doing what you love

Links:

Laura's Book: The Cryptopians

Laura's Newsletter: Unchained

Laura's Podcast Channel

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Thanks to our (first-ever) sponsor - Hedera Hashgraph (@Hedera). Hedera is the most used, sustainable, enterprise-grade public network for the decentralized economy. They are looking to add bright legal minds to their team. You can review the available openings at hedera.com/future. When you apply, be sure to mention you heard about it here on the Law of Code podcast!

Ben Samaroo (@BenSamaroo) is CEO/Co-Founder at WonderFi Technologies Inc, one of the largest players in the Canadian crypto space. Ben began building WonderFi with the mission of lowering barriers to entry to crypto and decentralized finance in support of a more equitable financial system. 

Previously, Ben was an executive and regulatory consultant with broad experience in managing corporate finance, risk and compliance on behalf of Fintech companies. He previously served as Regulatory Consultant and Advisor at Netcoins, General Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer for First Coin Capital, a Vancouver-based company that was acquired by Galaxy Digital. Prior, he was a lawyer at Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP, where advised public and private companies on M&A and capital raises. 

In this episode, we discuss DeFi, taking risks, and building one of Canada's largest crypto companies.

Show highlights:

[2:50] Ben's Genesis Block

[9:30] WonderFi

[12:35] Best Decisions

[16:00] Taking Risks

[25:13] Playing Offense in Business and Life

[32:00] WonderFi's Foundation & Acquisitions

[38:44] Legal Experience - Asset or Burden?

[49:24] Flair Airlines

[52:00] Habits

[56:10] Great Lawyers

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.