Explore every episode of the podcast Ko Papa Ko Rangi: Ahi Kaa

In this final episode, Indigenous researchers from around Aotearoa gather around the home fires at Pikitū in Waikato to share their experience, knowledge, wisdom and strategies for action. With poetry and deep knowing as opposed to “hope”, we reveal how the dreams of ancestors will soon become reality, as the changing climate forces us to reclaim the past in order to thrive in the future.

Healing from colonisation is a journey of recovery, and it begins with falling in love with home again. In this episode, we travel down the Whanganui river to meet the youngest generation of Indigenous scientists returning to their ancestral lands to keep the home fires burning. It’s not just about going along and planting some trees. It’s about being prepared to defend that place, right through to the end of your life.

In 2023, Aotearoa was hit by not one, but two devastating cyclones within weeks of each other. The debris choked waterways and smothered the beaches, leading those who have lived on the land for generations to ask why. We follow the trail of destruction in Te Tairāwhiti back through decades of environmentally disastrous land-use decisions, in a race against time to prepare for future events. What’s it going to take to clean up the mess of colonisation, and how can those who keep the home fires burning transition to a "new" old way of life that benefits both land and people?

When excavators arrived to break ground on ancestral lands at Ihumaatao in 2019, they were met with unwavering but peaceful defence from the people who had lived there continuously for more than 800 years. The call to stand with ahi kaa in the protection of the land ignited the whole nation.  But 2019 was just a speck on the history of all that has happened at Ihumaatao. What’s the connection between colonialism and climate change, and how does the story of climate adaptation change when those keeping the home fires burning are telling it?

What does it take to keep the home fires burning in Aotearoa, and why is the term “land back” synonymous internationally with climate action? Brought to you by Te Kōmata o Te Tonga and The Spinoff, Nadine Hura and Ruia Aperahama talk to Ahi Kaa about how they’re preparing for climate change, and why Te Tiriti o Waitangi is the most powerful tool to advocate for protection for Papatūānuku and Ranginui.

Everyone, from homeowners to policy makers, from marae committees to corporations, is asking, “How much will climate change cost us, and how much will it cost to adapt?” But are these the best questions? How are the assessment tools and frameworks we currently use to guide investment considering the “costs” of climate change, or the benefits of adaptation? Do we risk embedding an unbalanced future, because we’re struggling to step back and consider the full extent of what’s at stake? The final episode of this season will examine what we know about “costing climate change”, what we don’t know, and perhaps even what we don’t know we don’t know. Framing the costs of climate change, with Sacha McMeeking, Anita Wreford, Jodie Kuntzsch

How do we currently price, pay for and transfer “climate risk”? Are these methods reducing danger or delaying what we do about it? Insurance only works when you can afford it; who will be (or is being?) most harmed if we don’t support different ways of protecting ourselves and our communities? This third podcast, with experts from within and outside of the insurance industry, interrogate the role of insurance now, and what it might need to play an effective and equitable role in climate adaptation. Insurance for adaptation, with Ronji Tanielu, Carolyn Kousky and Belinda Storey

To understand the paradigm within which we consider concepts of value, cost and risk, we need to grapple with our past and reconsider our present. Senior economist Shaun Awatere and Te Tiriti educator Jen Margaret look backwards and forwards, exploring how our economy and economic frameworks have evolved and been impacted by past decision-making, and what this could mean for our future with a changing climate. Ka mua ka muri, with Shaun Awatere & Jen Margaret

The first podcast in our rolling symposium is a conversation with the Pou Tikanga of the Deep South Challenge Ruia Aperahama, and our Climate Change Knowledge Broker Kate Turner, exploring the symposium’s name. Within mātauranga Māori, the concept of “utu” suggests that if something is taken, permission must first be requested. Once taken, something of equal or greater value must be returned. Further obligations are in this way generated, and a relationship becomes reciprocal. In the pūrākau of Papa and Rangi, for choosing to separate his parents, Tāne repays them over and again, with his heart forever to Papa and his feet always striving for Rangi – an expression of ever growing love. With this image, we see Tāne as upside down. But perhaps it is we who are the wrong way up? Are we capable of making decisions that return to Papa and Rangi value greater than what we have taken? Up or Down? With Ruia Aperahama, Alexandra Keeble and Māni Dunlop.

Work is underway across Aotearoa to quantify the costs of climate change, including the costs of adaptation or of failure to adapt.  But how do we understand “cost” and will our economic paradigm really lead to effective climate adaptation? If we can’t or don’t quantify/consider some costs of climate change (and benefits of adaptation!), how can we ensure these are factored in our adaptation decisions?  On the one hand, we need frameworks and tools that help us analyse our adaptation decisions (and indecisions). On the other, we need to consider the paradigm driving our current thinking, and the limits of current economic tools and frameworks to help us make collectively oriented, intergenerational decisions.  Are we capable of making decisions that return to Papa and Rangi value greater than what we have taken?