It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine – Details, episodes & analysis

We know that healthcare workers are burned out and exhausted. Provider mental health is a huge issue… but are the institutions listening? 

This week on It’s OK, burnout expert Dr. Jessi Gold talks to us about (obviously) burnout, but also ways HCW* can start to change the workplace culture into one that actually values the human workforce. Sound unlikely? Listen in for Dr. Gold’s ideas for a grassroots movement - using the language of capitalism to get the c-suite to listen.

*We talk a bunch about HCW in this episode, but the topics involved are relevant to everyone who feels even a little bit exhausted by the pressures of the world. 

Dr. Gold’s new book, How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine, is out on October 8, 2024. For more info visit drjessigold.com

In this episode we cover:

• Can you be emotionless and still practice good medicine?
• How medical training seeks out perfectionists, and then uses that perfectionism as a way to wring out even more work 
• Why you can’t self-care your way out of burnout, but you can support yourself inside the catastrophe
• Ways to get the administration to start valuing their workforce (spoiler: it involves speaking the language of capitalism!) 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

About our guest:

Dr. Jessi Gold is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at Washington University School of Medicine in St Louis. She’s a nationally recognized expert on healthcare worker mental health and burnout (particularly during the pandemic). Her work can be found in major publications like The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Washington Post, and TIME. Find the “burned out burnout expert” at drjessigold.com and on social media @drjessigold

Pre-order Dr. Gold’s book - How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

Additional Resources:

Physician Support Line on social @shrink.rapping

American Foundation for Suicide Prevention on social @afspnational

Clinician Well-Being Knowledge Hub developed by @theNAMedicine 

The Emotional PPE Project

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The world is such a hot mess: every day a new disaster, a new human rights catastrophe. It can just feel… endless. Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch joins us to talk about outrage and trauma and community building - it’s like the greatest hits of modern culture. But mostly, she joins us to talk about art - specifically, the ways that storytelling helps us band together and work towards the world we all want. 

PS: Listen all the way through so you don’t miss Aubrey’s slightly sinister but ultimately functional ideas on hope. 

In this episode we cover: 

- The relationship between rage and creation: when there’s so much wrong with the world all you can do is scream

- Why taking action to change things matters - even if your actions won’t save everyone

- Women and anger: hoo boy, it’s a whole thing. 

- Why healing inside trauma is actually kind of… boring. 

- Connecting through the power of storytelling

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

About our guest:

Aubrey Hirsch is the author of Why We Never Talk About Sugar, a collection of short stories, and This Will Be His Legacy, a flash fiction chapbook. Her stories, essays and comics have appeared widely in print and online in places like American Short Fiction, Vox, TIME, The New York Times, The Rumpus, The Toast, and in the New York Times bestselling anthology, Not That Bad. Her essay on trauma and surviving gun violence is a must read. Find it here.

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

Additional Resources:

Aubrey occasionally teaches comics for “non-artists.” Check her TW @aubreyhirsch for announcements. 

Aubrey publishes new comics and essays on Roxane Gay’s substack, The Audacity. 

Aubrey’s written on so many topics relevant to human life. Find a long list of awesome essays on her website, aubreyhirsch.com

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What would a meaningful life look like for you?

According to Death Doula Alua Arthur, conversations about death can be the most enriching conversations we have. 

It’s not about accepting death, or avoiding grief - it’s about building a relationship with yourself and others that doesn’t hold anything back. Why should you listen? Yeah, because you’re mortal and one day you'll die, but more importantly: because one day, hopefully in the far off future, you’ll look back at this life you’ve lived. Conversations about death can make that life so much better. 

Alua’s new book is Briefly Perfectly Human: Making an Authentic Life by Getting Real about the End. For more info visit aluaarthur.com

In this episode we cover: 

• What’s a Death Doula? 
• Does being honest about death give you access to joy?
• Should you tell someone that they’re dying, or does that remove hope? 
• Why living each day like it’s your last is unrealistic (and what to do instead) 
• The linking of death and grief: Death and grief are married, but grief definitely dates around. 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

Related episodes:

Trauma Surgeon Dr. Red Hoffman on the surprisingly broad umbrella of palliative care

The co-founders of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care on supporting burnout & stress among healthcare professionals & caregivers

About our guest:

Alua Arthur is a Death Doula, recovering attorney, and the founder of Going with Grace, a Death Doula training and end-of-life planning organization that exists to support people as they answer the question, “What must I do to be at peace with myself so that I may live presently and die gracefully?” She’s been featured in the LA Times, Vogue, Refinery29, The Doctors, and alongside Chris Hemsworth on the docuseries, Limitless. Find her at aluaarthur.com and on Instagram at @going_with_grace 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

Additional Resources:

Read Alua’s new book - Briefly Perfectly Human

Going with Grace

Megan mentions this book -  Pronoia Is the Antidote for Paranoia

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“Getting people to feel angry with me makes me feel less alone, less helpless. (It) makes me feel like, okay, there’s a whole team of us. We're all gonna do it.” - Writer and illustrator, Aubrey Hirsch 

The world is such a hot mess: every day a new disaster, a new human rights catastrophe. It can just feel… endless. Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch joins us to talk about outrage and trauma and community building - it’s like the greatest hits of modern culture. But mostly, she joins us to talk about art - specifically, the ways that storytelling helps us band together and work towards the world we all want. 

PS: Listen all the way through so you don’t miss Aubrey’s slightly sinister but ultimately functional ideas on hope. 

In this episode we cover: 

• The relationship between rage and creation: when there’s so much wrong with the world all you can do is scream
• Why taking action to change things matters - even if your actions won’t save everyone
• Women and anger: hoo boy, it’s a whole thing. 
• Why healing inside trauma is actually kind of… boring. 
• Connecting through the power of storytelling

Notable quotes: 

“I feel very helpless and I don't wanna feel like that because I know that to be f*cked is a spectrum and we can be more f*cked than we are now or less f*cked. It's not a binary. I want us to move in the right direction (less f*cked),  and I want to be a part of that movement - even if my action comes too late for some.” - Aubrey Hirsch

About our guest:

Aubrey Hirsch is the author of Why We Never Talk About Sugar, a collection of short stories, and This Will Be His Legacy, a flash fiction chapbook. Her stories, essays and comics have appeared widely in print and online in places like American Short Fiction, Vox, TIME, The New York Times, The Rumpus, The Toast, and in the New York Times bestselling anthology, Not That Bad. Her essay on trauma and surviving gun violence is a must read. Find it here. 

Additional resources

Aubrey occasionally teaches comics for “non-artists.” Check her TW @aubreyhirsch for announcements. She publishes new comics and essays on Roxane Gay’s substack, The Audacity. 

Aubrey’s written on so many topics relevant to human life. Find a long list of awesome essays on her website, https://aubreyhirsch.com

Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The scene is 1990’s New York City. Young David Ambroz and his two siblings are homeless, sleeping in bus shelters and bathing in public restrooms, under the care of his mentally ill mother. The child he was is still evident in the person he grew up to be: a nationally recognized expert on child welfare, and a staunch supporter of the foster care system. In this episode, we discuss both the horror and the joy of his childhood, landing on a vision of hope for the future that everyone (yes, you!) can help bring into fruition. 

Sensitivity note: this episode explores the realities of being a homeless child, which includes brief examples of cruelty, and non-graphic mention of sexual assault. 

In this episode we cover: 

• The terrifying, liberating power of putting your personal story out into the world for everyone to see
• “Occasional angels” and how they helped young David survive the cruelty of his upbringing
• The intersections of mental illness, homelessness, and poverty 
• Why homeless kids need to see themselves in books and movies 
• Beyond fostering: how anyone can take action to create the kind of world where kids are safe and loved and cared for

Notable quotes: 

“It's all out there now. There's no taking it back. And it is the scariest, most beautiful, important thing I've ever done. It's the most self loving thing I could have done. In trying to help other people, I inherently helped myself.” - David Ambroz

“I want you to believe that you can do something. I'm here today because people did. And I want you to believe that you can create another David Ambroz. Together, we could create a system that produces only beautiful children that reach their full potential.” - David Ambroz

About our guest:

David Ambroz is a national poverty and child welfare expert and advocate. He was recognized by President Obama as an American Champion of Change. He currently serves as the Head of Community Engagement (West) for Amazon, coordinating with non-profits and community leaders for social good. Previously he led Corporate Social Responsibility for Walt Disney Television, and served as the President of the Los Angeles City Planning Commission, and as a California Child Welfare Councilmember. After growing up homeless and then in foster care, he graduated from Vassar and later from UCLA School of Law (J.D.). He is a foster dad and lives in Los Angeles, CA.

David is the author of the memoir A Place Called Home, a heart-wrenching yet inspiring story, depicting childhood poverty and homelessness as it is experienced by so many young people. It’s at once a gripping personal account of deprivation—how one boy survived it, and ultimately thrived—and a resounding call from the grown-up David, now a nationally recognized child welfare advocate, for us all to move from empathy to action.

Follow David Ambroz on Twitter @DaveAmbroz, on Instagram @hjdambroz, and on LinkedIn

Additional resources

Just talking about foster care can help foster care. Check out FosterMore, the foundation David co-founded with his sister, Jennifer Perry. 

Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

Follow the show on TikTok @hereafterpod

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

For more information, including clinical training and resources, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, & TT

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Our fears for the future of this planet are part of an interwoven story of grief and hope. While it’s easy to feel overwhelmed and defeated, author Stephanie Foo (What My Bones Know) has found one small consistent act that grounds her, and gives her a hope for the world: she volunteers with the urban parks system. If your climate anxiety has felt too big to tackle, don’t miss this short bonus episode - you might just find a doorway to your own place in the woods. 

In this episode we cover: 

• The difference between “good immigrant” plants and “bad immigrant” plants, and how that relates to the climate emergency
• How being a park steward has given Stephanie hope for the future AND a budding community (ok, pun intended)
• What trees teach us about weathering trauma

Notable quotes: 

“My action is relatively small, but I think it's really important. I kill plants.” - Stephanie Foo

About our guest: 

Stephanie Foo is a C-PTSD survivor, writer, and radio producer, most recently for This American Life. Her work has aired on Snap Judgment, Reply All, 99% Invisible, and Radiolab. She lives in New York City with her husband, where she is a Parks Department Super Steward.

Read Stephanie’s book, What My Bones Know: A Memoir of Healing from Complex Trauma

Follow her on Instagram @foofoofoo and Twitter @imontheradio 

Find a great conversation about What My Bones Know on Maria Shriver’s Sunday Paper at this link 

Additional resources

It’s OK That You’re Not OK: Meeting Grief and Loss in a Culture That Doesn’t Understand is a book for grieving people, those who love them, and all those seeking to love themselves—and each other—better. (available in paperback, e-book, & audiobook)

For a collection of tools and coping skills related to grief and trauma, check out my illustrated guided journal, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed. (available in paperback and for Kindle)

For a deep dive into the environmental activism of the 90s and early 2000s, check out the work of Joanna Macy. A lot of our current understanding of the mental health of activists comes from Macy’s work. 

Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

Share the show on your social networks! Use #HereAfterPod so we can find you. 

Follow the show on TikTok @hereafterpod

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

For more information, including clinical training and resources, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, & TT

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you’ve lived through horrific trauma or abuse, is it really fair of us to say that the ways you’ve learned to cope are “bad,” or to use clinical speak, “maladaptive”? This week on Here After, Stephanie Foo, author of What My Bones Know, joins me to talk about complex PTSD and the ways we pathologize human responses to trauma. You’ll also hear how claiming your own messy, complex coping mechanisms can help you build a community that sees you and loves you. 

If you’re haunted by any type of trauma, or know someone who is, this conversation is a great introduction to complex PTSD, and the work of survivorship. 

In this episode we cover: 

• Why pretending to be a high-performing badass is maybe not in your best interest
• How storytelling can make you feel less freakish and alone
• The real problem with most books on trauma and C-PTSD

Notable quotes: 

“People are like, oh, you're so brave to have shared your story. And I was like, I burned down my whole life. There was nothing to lose anymore, so there was nothing to be brave about.” - Stephanie Foo

About our guest: 

Stephanie Foo is a C-PTSD survivor, writer, and radio producer, most recently for This American Life. Her work has aired on Snap Judgment, Reply All, 99% Invisible, and Radiolab. A noted speaker and instructor, she has taught at Columbia University and has spoken at venues from Sundance Film Festival to the Missouri Department of Mental Health. She lives in New York City with her husband.

Read Stephanie’s book, What My Bones Know: A Memoir of Healing from Complex Trauma

Find her at stephaniefoo.me and follow her on Instagram @foofoofoo and Twitter @imontheradio 

Find a great conversation about What My Bones Know on Maria Shriver’s Sunday Paper at this link 

Additional resources

It’s OK That You’re Not OK: Meeting Grief and Loss in a Culture That Doesn’t Understand is a book for grieving people, those who love them, and all those seeking to love themselves—and each other—better. (available in paperback, e-book, & audiobook)

For a collection of tools and coping skills related to grief and trauma, check out my illustrated guided journal, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed. (available in paperback and for Kindle)

Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

Share the show on your social networks! Use #HereAfterPod so we can find you. 

Follow the show on TikTok @hereafterpod

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

For more information, including clinical training and resources, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, & TT 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What if you were just about to get divorced, but your partner gets sick? Like really sick? Rebecca Woolf was just about to leave an unhappy marriage when her husband got sick and died. What followed was a crash course in performative grief, and the dismantling of one life in order to build the next. In this epsiode, we cover love, sex, marriage, divorce, grief, shame, assumptions (both internal and external), and personal agency - it’s QUITE the conversation. Sensitivity note: this episode contains the F word, and references sex. 

In this episode we cover: 

• The conventions of marriage and grief that trap people in inauthentic versions of themselves
• How you can love someone AND be relieved they’re dead
• Why everyone has an opinion about how soon is too soon to date, have sex, or otherwise live your life after someone dies
• Grieving the time you lost living someone else’s life
• Building your own “house of hope,” according to your own desires

Notable quotes: 

About our guest:

Rebecca Woolf has worked as a writer since her teens - it’s the way she understands both herself and the world. Her essays have appeared on Refinery29, Huffington Post, Parenting and more. She currently authors the bi-weekly column Sex &the Single Mom on Romper.com. Her latest book, ALL OF THIS: a memoir of death and desire, hits the shelves this August, 2022. 

Find her on IG @rebeccawooolf (with three o’s) and at Rebeccawoolf.com

Additional resources

It can be hard to find information about grieving the loss of a complicated relationship (an abusive parent, or an estranged partner, for example). Check out this post on grieving people you didn’t always like. 

Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, and share the show with everyone you know. Talking about difficult things gets easier with practice, and that’s why we’re here. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

Follow the show on TikTok @hereafterpod

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, & TT 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“I’m for survivors surviving.” - Nelba Márquez-Greene

Nelba Márquez-Greene is a marriage and family therapist, and she’s an advocate for survivors of tragedy. What her offical bio doesn’t say is that her child was murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary. 

Each time there’s a new act of public gun violence, the media erupts with sound bites and headlines: survivors of past acts of violence tell us what the newest survivors are thinking and feeling. Not only do those interviews come at a cost, they don’t tell the whole story of what it’s like to live on after people you love have been killed by gunfire.

On this week’s show, Nelba and I discuss what it’s like to live such a public grief, and what it means to find joy - and hope - in an often violent world. 

In this episode we cover: 

• Supporting each other: the difference between an “inside the house” friend and an “on the porch” friend. 
• Why no single form of advocacy for survivors is right for all survivors 
• What’s missing from our ideas about “resilience”
• Where your money goes when you donate funds in the wake of a tragedy
• The importance of telling your own story in the ways you want to tell it (no matter who demands a soundbite) 
• What to do when the next act of gun violence happens

Click here for the episode webpage

Notable quotes: 

• “My son was eight when his sister was murdered. He has every reason to not hope. In this country, boys who look like him are murdered with impunity more often than we report. And my son still has hope. And that gives me great hope when I can't find it.” - Nelba Márquez-Greene

• “What’s the aim of a media outlet, or a news outlet, when they tell a specific (often traumatic) story? Like, yes, they want clicks & advertising, but they need emotional impact to get those clicks. Do you know what has emotional impact? The f*cking truth.” - Megan Devine

About our guest: Nelba Márquez-Greene is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist specializing in grief, loss, trauma and their impact on individuals and systems.She founded the CTAMFT (Connecticut Association for Marriage and Family Therapy) Diversity Committee and served on the CTAMFT Board of Directors.

In 2018, she was profiled as one of “100 Women of Color” and a YWCA (CT) Women’s Leadership Award recipient. She was featured in People Magazine’s October 2019 issue as one of Ten Women Changing the World and also recognized by Chelsea Clinton and Hillary Clinton in their Book of Gutsy Women.

Nelba has testified and advocated at the state and federal levels on many different mental health initiatives, hosted TEDx talks, and is a nationally sought after speaker. In the many years that have followed, stints in advocacy, public policy, community care, etc. have affirmed her core belief that in order to change the world we must take care of people. First - that grief, trauma and loss must be allowed in the room. Second - that tools, language, skills, resources and acceptance should be available to live a full, grieving life. 

Find her at thisgrievinglife.com

Follow her on Instagram and Facebook @anagraceproject 

Follow her on Twitter at @Nelba_MG and @anagraceproject 

Additional resources

There are many organizations fighting to end gun violence. Here are just a few: 

Moms Demand Action, Change the Ref, and Brady United.  As Nelba suggested, if you want to support survivors of gun violence, find ways to support survivors in underserved communities, especially if their tragedy didn’t make the national news. 

Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

Follow the show on TikTok @hereafterpod

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, & TT 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There’s a lot going on lately - which is a massive understatement. In our personal lives and as a wider community - everything is a lot. It’s a really human thing to hope things will get better (even when you’re not sure how they possibly could). In this season of Here After, we’re going to find out if there’s any hope for us - like real, functional, tangible hope -  in conversations with interesting people about difficult things.

In this episode we cover: 

• Why season two took so long to arrive
• How to talk about the pain of the world without collapsing into despair or pretending everything is fine
• Real world hope versus “vending machine” hope
• What to expect in the season ahead

Click here for the episode webpage

Notable quotes: 

 “I want my hope back. And it has to be a real hope, not some airy, useless hope. It has to be functional. It has to be LOGICAL. It has to be real, and rooted in actual reality. I think we only get that kind of hope if we’re willing to tell the whole truth about how hard it is to be here sometimes.” - Megan Devine

About our guest:

Megan Devine is the host of Here After, and author of the best selling book, It’s OK that You’re Not OK. Her writings on re-humanizing grief can be found in publications such as Psychology Today, The New York Times, Harvard Business review, and The Washington Post. She serves as a grief expert for major media outlets including NPR, iHeartRadio, and the PBS documentary, Speaking Grief.  

Additional resources

Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

Follow the show on TikTok @hereafterpod

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, & TT 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.