Have you ever looked around at work and realized you might be one of the oldest people in the room—and you’re not even 40 yet?
It Gets Late Early is a show about what’s really happening to experienced workers as the rules of work change. We dig into layoffs dressed up as AI strategy, side hustles and portfolio careers, the quiet rise of workplace ageism, and the (sometimes harsh) reality of building a career in midlife and beyond.
We connect the dots between corporate decisions, economic forces, and the real lives of people navigating a changing world of work to help make sense of it all…because the career playbook we all followed was for a game no one can win anymore.
You’ll hear honest conversations, expert insights, and practical advice for people trying to figure out what comes next—all wrapped up in a healthy dose of dark humor. Because sometimes you have to laugh so you don’t cry.
Hosted by Maureen Wiley Clough—corporate dropout and ex-journalist who won’t quit telling the truth about work.
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The AI Con: How Tech Giants Are Using Layoffs to Reset the Job Market
Episode 68
Wednesday, March 11, 2026 • Duration 14:12
You may have seen companies like Pinterest and Amazon cutting thousands of jobs in the name of "AI transformation." But here's the catch: these layoffs are a calculated reset, not a technological revolution. It’s all about greed disguised as progress.
In this episode, I dive into the AI-driven layoffs that are sweeping across the job market and how these "innovations" are actually part of a much bigger strategy. I break down how these tech giants are using AI as cover to slash salaries, eliminate experienced workers, and reset the market for a younger, cheaper workforce. We’re not talking about companies simply streamlining their operations. This is a systemic dismantling of worker leverage and a rollback of the progress workers made during the pandemic.
You’ll hear about the cold, hard truth behind these so-called "AI efficiencies" and why, as much as companies push the narrative, the truth is that AI is far from delivering the results they claim. AI is not necessarily replacing jobs, but it’s being used to cut costs while executives rake in record pay.
This episode addresses what’s really happening with AI layoffs, what it means for your future job security, and how we can collectively push back.
In This Episode:
-AI-driven efficiency and its consequences on workers
-How AI narratives mask deeper corporate greed
-Why this is a systemic issue and not just a tech problem
-The new reality for those who were laid off
-Steps to push back against AI-driven layoffs and reset salary expectations
Hey there! Just a quick heads-up — some of the links we share in our show notes, YouTube videos, or episodes might be affiliate links. That means if you click on one and make a purchase, we might earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you).
We only shout out products, tools, or services we’ve actually tried, love, or think you’ll find genuinely useful. Still, it’s always a good idea to do your own homework before buying anything.
Using these links helps support the show and keeps It Gets Late Early rolling — so thanks a ton for being part of the community!
How to Build Something New After 40 (Even When It Feels "Too Late")
Episode 67
Tuesday, December 16, 2025 • Duration 52:36
"It's too late for me."
I had this worry, but I finally hit publish on my first podcast episode at 40.
I thought I'd missed the boat. Everyone else had already started, and I wondered if I was too old to become a creator in an industry that thinks you expire at 35. I was terrified to try something new in public.
But here's what I've learned: that "too late" feeling? It's just plain old straight-up fear wearing a really convincing disguise.
I feel so strongly about debunking this myth that today, in this special episode, I get the chance to flip the mic and be interviewed by Rhona Barnett-Pierce on her podcast, Workfluencer. We're getting into all the messy, uncomfortable stuff about starting something new when you feel like you've missed your window.
We talk about:
→ The year I spent overthinking instead of doing (and why that was such a waste)
→ How to actually start when you don't feel ready (because you never will)
→ Why your age might actually be the thing that makes you better at this
→ What to do when people think you're cringe (spoiler: you gotta lean in)
→ Where to find support when your friends and family don't get it
→ The real timeline from "I'm terrified" to "okay, I'm doing this"
This conversation is for you if:
→ You've been thinking about starting something but keep finding reasons to wait
Fired and Diagnosed With Cancer: How Daniel Incandela Rebuilt His Life
Episode 58
Tuesday, August 5, 2025 • Duration 39:34
Losing a job is never easy, but what if it led to a more fulfilling path? Daniel Incandela, former CMO, opens up about the painful yet transformative experience of being fired in his 50s. In this episode, he shares the emotional toll it took, how he navigated the challenges, and the powerful lessons he learned along the way.
Today, I sit down with my good friend, Daniel Incandela, who, like many of us, faced the harsh reality of burnout and being let go. His story is one of resilience and transformation. Despite the painful blow of being fired, Daniel reflects on how the experience helped him realign his priorities, focusing on family, health, and ultimately finding his path forward through consulting and creative work.
We discuss the importance of reflection and accountability, even in the most challenging moments. Daniel’s journey sheds light on how career paths don’t always go as planned, and how the pressure to “do it all” can weigh heavily on us. From navigating ageism in a competitive job market to embracing AI as a necessary tool for today’s workforce, Daniel discusses how he’s finding purpose in his new role and working towards a future that aligns more with his values.
If you’ve ever felt like your career took an unexpected turn, this episode is for you. Daniel’s story is a powerful reminder that we can find clarity even in moments of doubt.
“I've been on this journey that I think I really needed in life, and it has helped me awaken from things I did not see.”
~ Daniel Incandela
In This Episode:
-Daniel’s transition from CMO to consultant
-Embracing change and realizing what really matters
-Leadership in the time of AI
What No One Tells You About Personal Branding at Work With Danielle Hughes
Episode 57
Tuesday, July 22, 2025 • Duration 39:29
Let’s face it, whether you're looking for a new job, trying to stand out in your current role, or considering a career pivot, building a personality brand is a real game-changer (you read that right. A personality brand, not a personal one). In today’s landscape, you need more than just experience; you need a personality that resonates.
In this episode, Danielle Hughes, Chief Personality Officer at More Than Words Marketing, joins me to chat about why creating a personality brand isn’t just about ‘selling’ yourself.
Danielle shares tips on how to confidently showcase your authentic self in your professional persona, particularly on platforms like LinkedIn. She emphasizes the importance of not just telling your story but showing it through real examples and personal achievements.
Whether you're pivoting careers or leveling up in your current role, branding is more important than ever. Tune in to hear how you can use your personality to stand out in the competitive job market and connect authentically with others.
And just in case you're interested in working from beautiful homes all over the world, Danielle shares how she makes it happen.
“Why is it a personality brand and not personal? Personal means private, so I never understand why we tell people to have a personal brand. Personality is who we are, and that's how we foster connection...with other people.”
~ Danielle Hughes
In This Episode:
-Danielle's elevator pitch
-Why personality branding is crucial in today’s world
-How to connect your career story with your brand
The AI Industry Is Lying to You — And This Founder’s Calling It Out at Age 66
Episode 56
Tuesday, July 8, 2025 • Duration 01:07:52
Is AI living up to the hype, or is it just another overblown bubble that’s gonna pop? In this episode, Stephen Klein, a 66-year-old AI founder who is challenging the status quo in the world of artificial intelligence, joins me to expose what he believes is the truth about AI, from inflated promises to the real potential it holds for augmenting human intelligence. Trust me, this is what you won’t be hearing in the headlines about AI.
We jump into the much-hyped world of AI, and Stephen shares his no-holds-barred views on what’s happening (and why speaking out is making him enemies in Silicon Valley). We discuss how many companies are rushing to market with products that aren’t actually as groundbreaking as they claim, and how the industry itself often misleads us about AI’s capabilities for their own benefit, leading with scary headlines about how all of us are being laid off because of AI.
Stephen doesn’t just talk about AI; he’s actively shaping its future. But he’s not just creating another automation tool. He’s building AI that truly augments human intelligence, and that’s where it gets interesting.
Stephen’s company, Curiouser.AI, is different. It focuses on creating AI that enhances our creativity and critical thinking, things that the industry is currently sidelining in favor of quick fixes and efficiency. He challenges the corporate culture surrounding AI and explains how the industry needs to move away from pure automation and toward true collaboration between humans and machines.
We also jump into the wild world of LinkedIn, where Stephen’s satirical posts challenge the hype surrounding AI and expose the industry’s biggest players.
If you’ve been confused about what this AI thing is all about or what to do, swept up in the AI frenzy or have doubts about where the industry is headed, this conversation will give you some powerful insights into what’s really going on behind the scenes that you’re unlikely to find in the typical media coverage.
Kelly Stonelake Tried to Protect Kids at Meta. They Fired Her Instead
Episode 55
Tuesday, June 24, 2025 • Duration 01:13:58
Have you ever felt trapped in a system that’s supposed to empower you but instead chips away at your well-being? In today’s episode, I’m sitting down with Kelly Stonelake, a former Meta executive who’s blowing the whistle on what’s happening behind the scenes at one of the world’s most powerful tech giants.
From battling toxic corporate culture to confronting racial issues in virtual spaces, Kelly’s story isn’t just about one woman standing up - it’s about exposing the systemic issues that hold women back in the corporate workplace and getting all of us to fight for a safer, more accountable tech industry. If you’ve ever felt the weight of corporate silence or been pushed to the brink in a system that’s more about profit than people, this conversation serves as an eye-opener.
Kelly opens up about her time at Meta and the deeply toxic corporate culture she experienced, which led to her risking it all by taking on the company with a high-profile lawsuit. She reveals her fight to hold Meta accountable for the harm done, particularly to vulnerable users. As a former senior executive, Kelly sheds light on the urgent need for corporate accountability in an environment that prioritizes growth over people’s well-being, and how her treatment after speaking out about racial and cultural issues within Meta eventually led to her whistleblowing.
If you're interested in the human side of big tech and how systems of power perpetuate harm, this episode is a must-listen.
Tune in to hear Kelly’s remarkable journey and discover how she’s taking a stand for change, even when it comes at great personal cost.
Two small corrections from Kelly: "After listening back, two quick clarifications to my comments in the spirit of accuracy. I said it is illegal for companies to collect data on children. Clarification: it's illegal to collect data on children without parental consent. Also, I said I was 21 when I was first sexually assaulted by my boss, but I misspoke. I was 23 years old."
How to Fix Your Dumpster Fire Interview Process With Lorna Erickson and Victoria Gates
Episode 54
Tuesday, June 10, 2025 • Duration 49:11
Let’s get real: hiring today is a mess. I’ve been there both as a candidate and as the interviewer who wasn’t properly trained. So, when I discovered Lorna Erickson and Victoria Gates, two women who are revolutionizing the corporate interviewing landscape, I knew we had to have them on the show.
In this episode, we dive into the shocking state of interviews today - from the mundane but outdated, biased questions that are still being asked to the absolute trainwreck moments that are happening at the table. Like a hiring manager who thought it was a good idea to ask a candidate to sell a dirty old shoe, sort of a creative take on that age-old sales question, “sell me this pen.” Yeah, you’ll want to hear this story.
But it’s not all doom and gloom! Lorna and Victoria share how they transitioned from the corporate world into entrepreneurship, using their combined expertise to help businesses and hiring managers learn how to conduct effective interviews without inadvertently violating the law (yes, asking about holiday plans to try to figure out if a candidate is a parent is illegal). They’ve been able to show incredible results for their clients, underscoring how getting the interview process right brings a massive, lasting impact. They’ve been there, and they’re showing others how to do it right.
Of course, we can’t talk about interviewing without touching on ageism, something that has been a problem for both older and younger candidates. We discuss how unconscious bias shows up in interviews and how companies need to adopt a broader perspective. Spoiler alert: it’s not just about hiring people you can grab beers with.
And the best part? They share their golden rule of interviewing, and trust me, if companies started following it, it would completely shift the hiring process. It’s about respect, balance, and ensuring you’re bringing in the right person, not just the most convenient one.
Listen to the episode and let’s make the hiring process better, together. The future of work depends on it!
Are We All Screwed? A Millennial and Gen Xer Weigh In With Bradley Richardson of Advanced Adulting
Episode 53
Tuesday, May 27, 2025 • Duration 01:51:41
I’m not gonna lie–this episode hit deep. Bradley Richardson and I recorded this one for both our audiences, and it turned into the realest talk I’ve had in a while. We peeled back the polish and got straight into the messy middle of work, life, and what we all do to survive this stage of midlife.
If you've ever been laid off, cut off by your work “family,” or fed up with the BS around personal branding, you’re in good company. Bradley and I unpack what really happens behind hiring decisions (spoiler: hard work doesn’t always pay off), how social media is frying our nervous systems, and why entrepreneurship isn't all beach retreats and flowy bathrobes.
We also get vulnerable about adult friendships – the kind that fade, the ones that surprise you, and the painful truth that growth sometimes means outgrowing people. Bradley shares a brutally honest moment with his son that I won’t forget, and I talk about finally taking off the mask after decades of trying to do things “right.”
So if you’re feeling behind, off-track, or just bone-tired of pretending you’ve got it all figured out, this one's for you. Come hang with us, and let’s say the quiet part out loud.
Listen now, and send that text to a friend you miss. If this episode resonates, send it to them too!
“I think the greatest cure for loneliness for people in midlife is actually getting out of your comfort zone, as uncomfortable as it is, and making that first move.”
~ Bradley Richardson
In This Episode:
-Why job loyalty is a myth and what really happens behind closed doors
-How ageism shows up in hiring and the subtle ways older workers get sidelined
Did You Know You Could Have a 'Second Fifty' Years? Dr. Debra Whitman Explains!
Episode 52
Tuesday, May 13, 2025 • Duration 43:57
What has more to do with longevity: your zip code or your genetic code? The answer might just surprise you.
In this episode, I’m thrilled to have Dr. Debra Whitman, Chief Public Policy Officer at AARP and author of “The Second Fifty: Answers to the 7 Big Questions of Midlife and Beyond” join me to discuss the changing narrative of aging.
Deb’s journey into this field began at a young age; growing up living with her grandmother, who had schizophrenia, shaped her deep passion for improving the lives of older adults.
Her book, “The Second Fifty,” is a profound exploration of the reality of aging in America, highlighting the disparities in life expectancy, healthcare, and the retirement crisis many face, while also offering actionable steps for improving how we live, work, and age.
From the big questions in our second half of life to the importance of intergenerational teams, this conversation will change the way you think about aging and help you embrace it with purpose and intention. This episode is a call to action to adopt a more positive view of aging and to build systems that support healthy, vibrant aging for everyone - not just a select few.
Instead of dreading birthdays, why not embrace them with gratitude and start planning your next big adventure? Who knows - your second 50 might just be your best 50!
Listen now to hear Deb’s inspiring insights, learn about AARP’s important work on behalf of older adults, and hear how we can shift the mentality around aging in our society.
“If you think more positively about your future, then that's the best health behavior you can have.”
Turn Career Setbacks Into Comebacks: Gamifying Job Searches and Nailing Your Career After Age 40 With Portfolio Rocket’s Loren Greiff
Episode 51
Tuesday, April 29, 2025 • Duration 48:16
What happens when the most brutal battle of your life changes how you approach everything?
Cancer sucks. It rips apart someone’s life. So, can you believe someone “gamified cancer” to make sure she still got the most out of life during her fight?
Yup, that would be my friend, Loren. In this episode, I’m joined by executive career strategist Loren Greiff, the driving force behind helping job seekers over age 40 land their ideal roles.
Her story is nothing short of inspiring - she’s not only a career coach but also a survivor of advanced-stage cancer, and she brings her incredible resilience to her work helping others get back to work. Loren helps job seekers reinvent themselves, cultivate the optimal mindset, and get intentional during job transitions. She’s all about reframing difficult situations and turning challenges into opportunities (see earlier point about “gamifying cancer”).
Loren’s story is a reminder that age should never be seen as a negative. She helps her clients go beyond viewing their years of experience as a liability and instead shift their focus forward to what they can deliver in the future. Her work highlights the shifting narrative around ageism in the workforce, particularly for those over 40, and demonstrates how anyone can continue to reinvent their career and make meaningful contributions. Loren’s infectious energy and drive have helped many of her clients secure roles that truly align with their passions.
Tune in to hear Loren’s inspiring story and game-changing career strategies. If you’re ready to reinvent your career, this episode is a must-listen!
“You don’t have to have cancer in order to gamify tough things in your life.”
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→ You're staring down a layoff or career pivot and don't know what's next
→ You want to build something of your own but feel like you've missed your chance
→ You're tired of the voice in your head saying "not ready yet"
→ You need someone to tell you it's okay to be scared and do it anyway
Look, I'm not going to tell you it's easy. Starting something new at 40—especially something visible like starting a new business or jumping into content creation—is uncomfortable as hell. But the alternative is spending the rest of your life wondering "what if?" And I really, really don’t want that for you.
At the end of the day, “everyone's cringe until they make it. Then people pretend they supported you all along." (Thanks to my 28-year-old social media consultant for that gem.)
I hope this conversation gives you permission to just start. Scared, unprepared, "too old," whatever. Just start. Let’s make 2026 the year you go for it, whatever your “it” might be. The world needs you!
Speaking of 2026, we’ll be taking a holiday break til then. Happy Holidays to you and yours!
Hey there! Just a quick heads-up — some of the links we share in our show notes, YouTube videos, or episodes might be affiliate links. That means if you click on one and make a purchase, we might earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you).
We only shout out products, tools, or services we’ve actually tried, love, or think you’ll find genuinely useful. Still, it’s always a good idea to do your own homework before buying anything.
Using these links helps support the show and keeps It Gets Late Early rolling — so thanks a ton for being part of the community!
-The reality of getting fired in your 50s
-Experiencing the immense benefits of slowing down
-Looking ahead: the future of work in a gig economy
If you want to hear more from Stephen, check out his LinkedIn for more satirical insights and join the conversation on the future of AI!
“I think that artificial intelligence is the single greatest innovation–invention–in the history of humanity, and I couldn't be more optimistic about where it's going.”
~ Stephen Klein
In This Episode:
-An AI founder at 66
-Creating AI that augments human intelligence
-The misconceptions around ageism in tech
-The impact of curiosity-driven AI on human creativity
-Why people should be careful when using AI
-AI's role in the future of work
-How to deal with fear
-The future of AI in business and ethics
-The power of LinkedIn as a platform for your cause
-The Great Man's Lady - a 1941 film starring Barbara Stanwyck. It tells the story of the 100-year-old Hannah recalling her past, allowing for a reflection on the aging process and the accumulation of memories and experiences.
