Explore every episode of the podcast Inquiry with Kelly Chase
Dive into the complete episode list for Inquiry with Kelly Chase. Each episode is cataloged with detailed descriptions, making it easy to find and explore specific topics. Keep track of all episodes from your favorite podcast and never miss a moment of insightful content.
Rows per page:
50
1–50 of 71
Title
Pub. Date
Duration
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep. 37: James Madden [Pt. 5]: The Death Drive & Disclosure
29 Aug 2024
00:47:48
In this episode of the UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast, host Kelly Chase returns from a hiatus with a brand new conversation with James Madden. The episode explores themes of psychoanalysis, epistemic vulnerability, and the psychological motivations behind belief systems in ufology. Together, Kelly and Jim ponder the deeper implications of mind control, trauma, and the symbolic nature of our cultural fascination with UFOs, aiming to navigate the complex landscape of human inquiry and understanding.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.
TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Welcome Back to the UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast
01:02 Upcoming Documentary and Personal Transformation
02:27 A New Direction for the Podcast
02:44 Conversation with Dr. James Madden
04:35 Dr. Madden's Recent Work and Psychoanalysis
06:36 Freudian Insights and Human Motivation
10:37 Epistemic Vulnerability and Belief Systems
15:07 Challenges in Ufology and Disclosure
22:20 Language, Belief, and Mind Control
25:41 Reflecting on Personal Beliefs
26:26 Freud's Death Drive and Trauma Reenactment
29:52 The Addictive Nature of Unfulfilled Promises
31:08 Comparing Ufology to Sports Fandom
33:18 Personal Struggles and Finding Meaning in Danger
35:21 Cultural and Political Outrage Cycles
40:28 Symbolism in Dreams and Collective Psyche
44:29 The Unending Human Project and Self-Destruction
46:29 Concluding Thoughts and Gratitude
Inquire Anomalous Presents [Ep 5]: Peter Levenda: Conspiracies, Disclosure, and The Occult
21 Jul 2024
00:54:46
In this episode, you’re going to hear from Peter Levenda who spoke at the Inquire into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conference in April of 2023. Although this talk is from a little over a year ago, I think you’ll find that it feels especially timely given everything that’s been going on in the news. It’s also well-timed with the upcoming release of the third book and final book in the Gods, Man, and War series that he authored with Tom DeLonge. War will be out in September, and I know many of us in the community, myself included, are eagerly awaiting its arrival.
If you aren’t familiar with Peter Levenda, he is an author and researcher who has written several phenomenal books on occult history. While most of his books aren’t directly about the UFO phenomenon, they are invaluable resources for people who want to understand the full context of the hidden histories in which the phenomenon is inextricably enmeshed. In particular, I recommend Unholy Alliance: A History of Nazi Involvement in the Occult and the Sinister Forces trilogy.
Also this week, James Iandoli (who co-hosted the event you’ll be hearing from today) just released a really fantastic interview with Peter Levenda on his Engaging the Phenomenon podcast. If you’d like to hear more from Peter, I’ll have that episode linked up in the episode description so you can go check it out. Make sure to subscribe to James’s podcast while you’re there, if you haven’t already. It’s one of my all-time faves.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 32: A Conversation with Jay Christopher King: UFO Revolution
15 Jan 2024
01:18:34
In this, the first episode of 2024, I’m welcoming my dear friend, Jay Christopher King, back to the podcast. I know most of you are already familiar with Jay and his work, but for anyone who’s new here, Jay is the director of The Experiencer Group and the co-founder of the phenomenal Inquire Anomalous conference series in NYC.
More recently, Jay and I have teamed up with our friend Jordan Flowers to found a new media company called Ontocalypse Productions. Under that banner we have already started production on our first docuseries called The Beyond: UFOs & A New Reality. If you haven’t seen the trailer for that project yet, you can find that below.
In this episode, Jay and I are sharing our reflections on a new docuseries that was released this week called UFO Revolution, which we both were featured in. The series also stars Jeremy Corbell, George Knapp, David Grusch, Chris Sharp, Mike Masters, Richard Dolan, Ryan Graves, Garry Nolan, Avi Loeb, Tim Burchett, and many more. If you haven’t seen it yet, this 3-part series is available right now on the free streaming services, Tubi. See below.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 31: An Interview with Dean Radin: On Consciousness, Psi Phenomena, and Real Magic
22 Dec 2023
01:42:51
Dean Radin, Ph.D., is a prominent figure in the field of parapsychology, known for his extensive research and publications on psychic phenomena. As the chief scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) and author of influential books such as "The Conscious Universe" and "Entangled Minds," Radin has played a pivotal role in investigating and promoting the scientific understanding of psi phenomena, including telepathy, clairvoyance, and psychokinesis.
His work, characterized by its interdisciplinary approach and rigorous statistical analysis, has significantly contributed to the academic and public discourse on the legitimacy and implications of psychic experiences. Radin's efforts have been instrumental in advocating for the open-minded and scientific exploration of these often-controversial subjects within the broader context of consciousness studies.
Before joining the research staff at IONS in 2001, he held appointments at AT&T Bell Labs, Princeton University, University of Edinburgh, and SRI International. Dr. Radin is author or coauthor of hundreds of technical articles, some 125 peer-reviewed journal articles, four dozen book chapters, and four best-selling, popular books. Links are in the episode brief if you want to learn more.
DONATE TO IONS IONS scientific research and free programs are entirely funded by generous gifts from members and donors. Make a gift today at noetic.org/give.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 30: An Interview with Leslie Kean: On Disclosure and Surviving Death
05 Dec 2023
01:02:38
For today’s episode, I had the honor and the privilege of sitting down with someone who has been the driving force behind some of the most important breakthroughs in the UFO disclosure movement, journalist and author Leslie Kean.
Along with journalists Ralph Blumenthal and Helene Cooper, Kean is responsible for the now historic 2017 article in The New York Times entitled Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program that first revealed the existence of that program to the public. And in June of 2023, she teamed up with Ralph Blumenthal once again for another history-making piece in The Debrief about the stunning claims made by high-ranking intelligence official-turned-whistleblower. David Grusch, about the existence of secretive crash retrieval programs that are in possession of craft of non-human origin.
Later this week on December 9th, Leslie will be co-hosting the fourth meeting of the Inquiry Into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conference series in New York City alongside organizer Jay Christopher King and James Iandoli. Speakers include Diana Walsh Pasulka, Tim Gallaudet, Michael Masters, Paul H. Smith, Peter Skafish, and Josh Cutchin. A surprise guest speaker was just announced, as well—pilot and Nimitz incident witness Alex Dietrich.
In-person tickets for this conference are currently sold out, but a limited number of livestream tickets are still available.
Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 29: Encounters & Hyperobjects: A Conversation Between Diana Walsh Pasulka & James Madden
24 Nov 2023
01:09:49
Today, I bring you something truly special. In this episode we’re welcoming Diana Walsh Pasulka back to the show to discuss her groundbreaking new book, Encounters: Experiences with Non-Human Intelligences. Encounters is a worthy and deeply challenging follow-up to American Cosmic, which we’ve talked about extensively on this show. I hope you’ll all read it, because we’ll definitely return to those ideas again and again.
I want to say ahead of time that this episode is going to be a little less accessible than the content I usually release here, and that is intentional. Diana has been doing the podcast circuit to support the launch of Encounters, and there have been some really phenomenal interviews going into the specifics of the book. In particular, I recommend her recent appearances on Somewhere In The Skies and That UFO Podcast—both did a great job of diving into the characters and experiences portrayed in the book, and they are worth your time.
Hardcore listeners of the show will know that, over the last year, my thinking around the subject of UFOs has been deeply influenced by Plato’s Cave, and particularly by a somewhat radical read on what it has to teach us that was first introduced to me by Diana and frequent guest of the show, James Madden. It was actually in one of Diana’s classes on UFOs and the Cave where I first met Jim, and eventually struck up a friendship. And I’ve spent the last 18 months processing and integrating the things I’ve learned from them both. I’m profoundly grateful for what that process has opened up to me, not just in terms of my understanding of the phenomenon, but with regard to the meaning and possibilities inherent in human experience.
On November 27th, Jim will also be releasing his first book on the UFO topic titled Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World which is being published by my new publishing house, Ontocalypse Press. Back in October, I had the absolute pleasure of finishing up the edits on Jim’s book, while simultaneously reading an advance copy of Diana’s and I was fascinated by the interplay between the ideas in both. I found myself thinking that the episode that I really wanted to make with regard to both of these phenomenal books would be one that didn’t involve me, and in which Diana and Jim were given free reign to explore a conversation on their own. Luckily they agreed, and the result is the stunning conversation that I have the privilege of sharing with you today.
This episode is definitely challenging, but for those of you who’ve been following along on this journey, you’re in for a real treat.
I have links to both Jim and Diana’s books in the episode brief so you can get your hands on those if you haven’t already. In my opinion these are two of the best and most important books about the UFO phenomenon published in recent memory, and both are destined to be classics of the field.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 28: James Madden [Pt. 4]: On Paranoia, The Uncanny, and Hellier
08 Nov 2023
01:14:38
Today we welcome James Madden back to the show. As “spooky season” draws to a close, I didn’t want to miss the chance to explore some of the darker themes that have been inspiring both Jim’s recent work, and our ongoing conversation about the nature of the UFO phenomenon—specifically the paranoia that comes from our uncanny encounters with things that lie just beyond the limits of our own personal caves.
You can find Jim’s most recent musings on his substack in a piece entitled Specters of the Thinking Machine: The Uncanny Suggestion of the Non-human within the Human, which I have linked up in the episode brief. In this episode we’ll be exploring the themes of that article, as well as exploring a work that has become something of a touchstone for me in my exploration of the darker contours of the UFO phenomenon, the phenomenal docuseries, Hellier.
Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 27: Skinwalker Ranch [Pt 1]: What Is The Secret Of The Ranch?
26 Oct 2023
01:08:53
In the first episode of this series, we dive into the mystery of the ranch and plot our path forward. We discuss:
🛸 What John Keel saw as the biggest blunder of ufological investigation (and how to avoid it) 🛸 The conversation that convinced Jacques Vallée that science will never provide the full answer on UFOs (and how to proceed anyway) 🛸 The reason Brandon Fugal says there may be a “precognitive, sentient, non-human intelligence” on the ranch 🛸 The 6-Layer Model of Anomalous Phenomena (Vallée & Davis) 🛸 The Control Mechanism (Vallée) 🛸 Window Areas (Keel) 🛸 The UFO as Hyperobject (James Madden) 🛸 And much more
Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Sharon Hewitt Rawlette: On Synchronicities
13 Oct 2023
01:01:29
I’m so excited about today’s episode because I think it’s been a long time coming. This episode isn’t about UFOs, per se, but it is about something that often happens to people when they begin looking into this topic—or other topics that challenge our consensus reality—which is the sudden appearance of profound synchronicities.
I hear from dozens of listeners of the podcast everyday, and one of the things that people reach out to me about most is to tell me that after they started listening to the podcast they suddenly started encountering strings of bizarre and improbable synchronicities in their lives. I’ve heard that exact thing from more people than I could ever get back to—and if you’re one of those people, I just want you to know that I’ve heard you, and I wanted to do an episode about this very phenomenon that I hope can serve as sort of roadmap in beginning to understand and integrate what synchronicities are and how you can best ride the wave of the improbable in your own lives.
And I couldn’t think of anyone better to join me in this conversation than today’s guest—the woman who literally wrote the book on strange coincidences—Sharon Hewitt Rawlette. I’ve been lucky enough to meet Sharon and hear her speak at two different conferences in the last year—both December’s Inquire Anomalous conference in NYC, and Rice University’s Archive’s of the Impossible in May—and both times I was blown away by the depth and ingenuity of her thinking. Sharon has the ability to make complex ideas easy to grok, and every time I hear her speak I walk away with a new perspective and understanding. I’ll link up both of those talks in the episode description if you’d like to check them out.
Sharon Hewitt Rawlette is a philosopher who writes for both popular and scholarly audiences on the topics of consciousness, anomalous experience, ethics, and spirituality. Before launching her career as an independent writer and researcher, she earned her PhD in philosophy from New York University. She currently serves on the board of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies as well as being a supporting researcher for the International Centre for Reincarnation Research. She has published four books and in 2021 was named a runner-up in the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest for her essay “Beyond Death,” on the best evidence for the survival of human consciousness after permanent bodily death.
The book that we’ll be referencing today is Sharon’s book entitled The Source and Significance of Coincidences. And if you have any interest in this topic, I really can’t recommend this book enough. Sharon attacks this topic from every conceivable angle, and the extensive table of contents makes it an invaluable reference tool when you want to dig a little deeper into strange coincidences that occur in your own life. [links in episode brief]
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] UFO Disclosure News with Chris Sharp of The Liberation Times
26 Sep 2023
00:52:57
Today we welcome Christopher Sharp back to the show. Chris is the founder and editor-in-chief of Liberation Times, and has been one of a small handful of independent journalists who has been doggedly pursuing the UFO disclosure story in Washington D.C. over the past few years. While most of the mainstream media is asleep at the wheel, Chris has been churning out high-quality journalism analyzing all aspects of this profound and historic story.
Over the past several weeks since the historic hearing in front of the House Oversight Committee, I’ve seen a lot of confusion and a lot of concern in the community about the status of disclosure, with many worrying that all momentum has been lost. The revelations by David Grusch were so shocking and so incendiary that I think many have been baffled by the relative quiet that has followed. I think for those who aren’t familiar with the vast complexities of how revelations like this are processed through the massive, multi-trillion dollar organization of the US government it’s easy to fear that this lull means that disclosure is dead.
That’s why this felt like the perfect time to bring Chris back on the show to help to frame all the latest regarding disclosure, what’s going on behind-the-scenes, and what still might be on the horizon. Chris is working this story day in and day out and as you’ll hear directly from him—reports of the demise of disclosure have been greatly exaggerated.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 26: An Interview with Jeffrey Kripal: The Flip & How To Think Impossibly
15 Sep 2023
00:55:21
Today, we have a very special guest on the show, Dr. Jeffrey Kripal. Dr. Kripal is an esteemed scholar and author in the study of religion, focusing particularly on the esoteric, mystical, and paranormal dimensions of human experience. He serves as the J. Newton Rayzor Chair in Philosophy and Religious Thought at Rice University. He is the author of several phenomenal books including The Superhumanities, Mutants & Mystics, Super Natural (which he co-authored with Whitley Strieber), and The Flip.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.
Inquire Anomalous [Ep 4]: Joshua Cutchin on UFOs & the Ecology of Souls
27 Jun 2024
00:50:33
The podcast is still on hiatus as I work with the Ontocalypse team to wrap up production on our upcoming docuseries, The Beyond: UFOs & A New Reality. But while I’m away, I’ve teamed up with Jay Christopher King to bring you guys a series of unreleased talks from the phenomenal Inquiry into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conferences.
In this talk, we hear from Joshua Cutchin. Josh is a researcher and author of several books including Thieves in the Night: A Brief History of Supernatural Child Abductions and Ecology of Souls: A New Mythology of Death & the Paranormal. In the traditions of great works like Jacques Vallée’s Passport to Magonia, Cutchin’s work explores the profound connections between folklore and myths from around the world and modern reports of contact with UFOs and non-human intelligences. And in this talk from the December 2023 conference, he dives into the themes that emerge in accounts of all of these phenomena that indicate that they all are deeply tied to the mysteries of death, the soul, and what lies beyond the veil.
The Experiencer Group is a private online community dedicated to support, curiosity & community for people who’ve had anomalous events of all kinds. They hold regular support meetings for people who are processing anomalous experiences, book clubs, special guest speaker presentations, and more. You can learn more and sign up at tegmembers.com.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 25: James Madden [Pt. 3]: The Cave, Morlocks & The Spectacle of Disclosure
10 Sep 2023
01:21:42
In this episode we welcome back my dear friend and friend of the show, Dr. James Madden. This is the third episode that we’ve done together, and I’m sure that it won’t be the last. My interviews with James Madden have become some of my most downloaded episodes, and so I know you guys love hearing from him. And I love talking to him, so we’re just going to keep doing it.
The deeper we dive into the phenomenon, the more necessary it becomes to not just interrogate what we think, but how we think—and to find new frameworks to help us do so. A philosophical approach gives the means to do that. And I’ve been so grateful to Jim for how generous he’s been with his time and his thoughts as we navigate these deeper waters.
As you all know, over the past several months Plato’s Cave has become a central touchstone of this podcast. It’s an idea I keep returning to, again and again, because as my own trip down the rabbit hole continues, I continue to find new insights within it. And so today, with Jim as our guide, we’re going to return to the Cave, armed with the new ideas we’ve developed over these past several months, and see what new revelations might reveal themselves.
With this episode we’ll also be returning to our discussion of Whitley Strieber’s groundbreaking new book, Them, which we discussed in the last episode. Strieber’s decades of deep research and thinking on the topic of non-human intelligence as well as his own ongoing contact experiences have led him to develop a nuanced, challenging, and at times unsettling, understanding of “the others”—including how they operate at the fringes of our awareness and what they might ultimately be trying to tell us.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 24: UFOs & High Strangeness: The 6-Layer Model by Vallée & Davis
31 Aug 2023
01:15:16
Today’s episode is an important one, because it’s going to lay the groundwork for a lot of the things that we’re going to be discussing moving forward. In the weeks and months to come, this is an episode that I’ll likely be referring back to often.
And that’s because today we’re diving into an article written by two heavyweights of ufology that serves not only as an essential framework to support our understanding of the complexities and nuances of the UFO phenomenon, but that also—in a very real way—helped to lay the foundation for the recent push for UFO disclosure. In short, it’s not only important that we take the time to really understand the ideas presented in this article—but to understand where it fits into the history of modern ufology.
The paper to which I’m referring is Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness: A 6-Layer Model for Anomalous Phenomena written by Jacques Vallée and Eric Davis. Most people will already be very familiar with those names, but just in case they are new to you, you can find links to their bios and other work in the episode brief.
What is so significant about this paper is that it seeks to create a framework by which we can begin to analyze and integrate the parts of UFO encounters that rarely make it into sci-fi media, and even more rarely make it into serious discussions about the phenomenon itself—which is the undeniable and pervasive occurrence of events and effects that are traditionally relegated to the realms of high strangeness and the paranormal.
If there’s nothing else that you take away from this episode it should be this—encounters with UFOs and non-human intelligence are much, much weirder than you've probably been led to believe.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.
MUSIC Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson Featured Song: Jacques Vallée by _ship
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:32 Introduction 00:06:53 Problems with the SETI and UAP Paradigms 00:07:25 —SETI & The Assumption of Mediocrity 00:12:19 —Anthropocentric Bias in SETI 00:14:54 —Anthropocentric Bias in Ufology 00:16:27 The Need For A Unified Approach To UAP Studies 00:20:01 The Six Layers of UAP Analysis 00:20:30 —Layer I: Physical 00:21:45 —Layer II: Anti-Physical 00:23:00 —Layer III: Psychological 00:29:53 —Layer IV: Physiological 00:32:19 —Layer V: Psychic 00:34:19 —Layer VI: Cultural 00:37:10 Possible Nature of UAP Technology 00:39:48 The Incommensurability Problem 00:45:42 Semiotics 00:51:35 High Strangeness & The Abduction Problem 00:54:12 Conclusions 00:56:23 Garry Nolan and Talking To Ants 01:00:26 Whitley Strieber and “The Visitors In the Trees” 01:12:42 Jacques Vallée by _ship
MUSIC Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson Featured Song: Jacques Vallée by _ship
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Jay Christopher King: Experiencers & Disclosure
18 Aug 2023
01:25:56
This week’s episode barely felt like work because this week I sat down with my dear friend, and one of my favorite people, Jay Christopher King. Jay is the cofounder and director of The Experiencer Group, a private online community dedicated to support, curiosity & community for people who’ve had anomalous events of all kinds. He is also the co-founder of the phenomenal Inquire Anomalous conference series in NYC along with James Iandoli.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 23: Waking Up Inside The Cave [Pt 3]: The Flip, Biocentrism, and The Case Against Reality
12 Aug 2023
01:03:25
In the third and final chapter of the Waking Up Inside The Cave series we explore emerging theories with regards to the nature of reality and consciousness that have the potential to fix what’s broken with “the official story of everything”. Specifically, we’ll be looking at the work of Jefrey Kripal, Robert Lanza, and Donald Hoffman.
MUSIC Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMPS 00:00:30 Introduction 00:04:33 A New Paradigm Emerges 00:09:52 The Flip 00:13:41 —Triggering The Flip 00:14:18 —The Impact Of The Flip 00:14:56 —Where the Traditional Materialist View Fits 00:15:46 —Full Disclosure 00:17:17 Biocentrism 00:20:35 —The Goldilocks Universe 00:22:42 —If A Tree Falls In The Forest Does It Make A Sound? 00:29:55 —Where Is The Universe? 00:34:58 —The Participatory Universe & Quantum Mechanics 00:36:21 —Space-Time Is Not Fundamental 00:43:13 The Case Against Reality 00:44:06 —How Evolution Hides The Truth 00:46:33 —The Interface Theory of Perception 00:48:22 —Objects As Mental Constructs 00:49:48 —Space-Time Is Doomed 00:50:42 Putting It All Together 00:50:55 —Recognizing Our Uber-Umwelt 00:57:29 —Consciousness—Not Space-Time—Is Fundamental 01:00:59 Conclusion
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] July 2023 Post-Hearing Analysis
03 Aug 2023
00:57:25
In this episode, we do a deep-dive on the historic UFO hearing held by the House Oversight Committee featuring witnesses David Grusch, David Fravor, and Ryan Graves.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] July 2023 Pre-Hearing Analysis: Where Are The Whistleblowers?
23 Jul 2023
00:33:03
As we look forward to next week's hearing, we're discussing concerns about the witnesses, the stunning allegations from members of Congress, and what we should expect in the week to come.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Nathan: Disclosure, Ontological Shock, and What's Next
29 Jun 2023
01:11:24
In this episode, I wanted to do something a little different. As the community continues to metabolize the stunning allegations by high-level intelligence official turned UFO whistleblower, David Grusch, and with more people waking up to the significance of this story everyday—the thing I’m hearing the most is just that people want to talk. We want to connect about this. If there’s anything that I’ve learned over the past few years it’s that this process of dismantling our consensus reality and coming to grips with a new one that shakes the foundations of every paradigm we have is a team sport. We’re meant to do these things in community.
Two weeks ago, I had the opportunity to spend the weekend with a bunch of really bright, like-minded people that I’ve met through doing this work, and it was honestly magical. We’ve come a long way in this conversation with the public-at-large, but for most of us who have a deep interest in this topic, we still find ourselves censoring and compartmentalizing to protect ourselves from the stigma we might face for simply considering these ideas. And so being able to gather with a group of people and let down those walls and give voice to the thoughts and hopes and anxieties that emerge when you’re coming to terms with the realities of a highly advanced, non-human presence on this planet can be a massive relief. It’s healing and I’d argue that it’s necessary.
But I know how rare those moments are, and I know that there are so many people who are more than ready to have those conversations, but who still haven’t found a safe place for that. And so I wanted to do my best to bring one of those conversations to you. So this week, I sat down with my friend and colleague, Nathan, to chat about what this journey has been like, some of the stumbling blocks we’ve hit along the way, and how we can move forward into this strange new reality in a way that is healthy and productive. And I knew that Nathan would be the perfect person to have that conversation with.
Nathan uses a mononym because, like so many in the community—including, I assume, many of you listening—he’s a serious guy with a serious job who doesn’t necessarily want to advertise his interest in UFOs. But though you won’t find his last name online, what you will find is a bunch of phenomenal work. Nathan is the co-host of two great podcasts—Liminal Phrames on which he collaborates with Darren King (AKA ExoAcademian), and Calling All Beings, which he co-pilots along with a bunch of other wonderful contributors in the space including D.J., Deb, Leah Prime, and a rotating lineup of other friends.
What I appreciate so much about Nathan is his rational yet deeply human-centered approach to the UFO phenomenon. He manages to navigate the deepest and most treacherous waters of this topic while still remaining grounded and without ever losing focus on the things that matter most—our relationships and connections with each other. Nathan is exactly the kind of friend that you’d want to have this kind of conversation with, and I hope you enjoy this chat as much as I did. And may we all move forward from this episode with the intention of being that kind of friend for others who will soon be going through this, too.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Michael Masters: The Extratempestrial Model & The Future Human Past
22 Jun 2023
01:11:36
Today, we’re circling back to an idea that we visited in one of the earliest episodes of the podcast—the extratempestrial model. Sometimes also referred to as the future human hypothesis, the extratempestrial model is the idea that the UFOs phenomenon might represent advanced humans and human descendents who are traveling here from another point in time.
I’ll admit to struggling with this idea at first. Time travel has always seemed a little too clunky and a little too hokey to be taken seriously. But as so often happens on this trip down the rabbit hole, the more I learned and the more my perspective began to swell and shift to accommodate the strange new realities I was exploring, the more what once seemed like a kind of crazy idea to me suddenly started to make a heck of a lot of sense. And I found that many of my objections had more to do with the limitations of my knowledge than the limitations of the extratempestrial model.
So I wanted to come back around to this idea, because there is a lot there to dig into, most of which didn’t make it into the initial episode. And there are some new and updated ideas that I think are really valuable in understanding the complexities of the phenomenon. And there’s no better way to take a deep dive into this topic than with one of the people who literally wrote the book on the extratempestrial model—Dr. Michael P. Masters.
Micahel Masters is a professor of biological anthropology at Montana Technological University. He specializes in human evolution, osteology, and anatomical sciences. Dr. Master’s work related to the phenomenon explores the potential evolutionary trajectories of humankind, linking anthropological theory to hypotheses about extraterrestrial life. He is the author of several books on the topic including Identified Flying Objects: A Multidisciplinary Scientific Approach to the UFO Phenomenon, The Extratempestrial Model, and his latest, a satirical science fiction novel called, Revelation: The Future Human Past.
MUSIC Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMPS 00:30 - Introduction 07:20 - What Is The Extratempestrial Model? 09:50 - The Extratempestrial Model & The Interdimensional Hypothesis 11:29 - The Social & Biological Trends That Hint At The Extratempestrial Model 16:32 - Technology & The “Other” 20:48 - Technological Variability In Humans 21:02 - The Communication Problem 25:38 - How Technology Is Shaped By Biology 28:52 - Exotic Bipedal Beings 32:17 - Could Humanoid Beings Be The Result of Biomimicry? 37:08 - Are UFOs Time Machines? 43:50 - The Nimitz Incident 47:18 - Rethinking The Impossible 49:57 - The Block Universe 59:02 - Revelation: The Future Human Past
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] The Disclosure Field Guide [Pt 1]: Ontological Shock & Getting Reoriented
15 Jun 2023
01:06:59
In this episode, we explore the complexities of confronting the reality of UFO disclosure. Information that significantly challenges your worldview can be hard to process. In light of UFO whistleblower David Grusch’s recent allegations—that the US government is in possession of non-human craft and bodies—even those within the community who thought that they were ready for these kinds of revelations have found themselves reeling.
In this episode, we discuss ontological shock—what it is, how to cope with it, and how to avoid the major pitfalls. And we work on beginning to resolve our ontological shock but getting ourselves reoriented in a world where nothing is as we once thought it was.
No matter where you are in your journey, I hope this episode offers you something that you can take for the road. And if you know people who are just starting out, or who are finding themselves feeling disoriented right now in ways they can’t identify, this is a great episode to share with them.
MUSIC Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMPS 00:00:30 Introduction 00:05:30 Ontological Shock 00:07:29 The Signs of Ontological Shock 00:08:42 The Pitfalls of Ontological Shock 00:14:07 Resolving Ontological Shock 00:16:47 What Exactly Are We Dealing With? 00:19:00 How Has Perception of the UFO Phenomenon Changed Over Time? 00:19:11 -UFOs: 1947 to Present 00:23:48 -UFOs: Before 1947 00:29:13 What Forces Have Shaped & Influenced The Perception Of UFOs 00:29:44 -Cultural Context 00:36:47 -The Government 00:50:38 -The Media 00:57:47 -The Phenomenon 01:00:25 Who Can You Trust?
Inquire Anomalous Presents [Ep 3]: James Fox & Leslie Kean hosted by Curt Jaimungal
23 May 2024
00:52:43
In the third episode of this series, we’re bring you a panel discussion from the April 2023 conference. This panel was hosted by Curt Jaimungal of Theories of Everything and features Leslie Kean and James Fox. Listening back to this discussion is especially fascinating given the timing. This was just a couple of months before the article written by Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal broke in The Debrief where the world learned about whistleblower David Grusch and his allegations about the existence of top-secret UFO crash retrieval programs. So besides being a great conversation, it’s an interesting time capsule of the period when this story was in development.
One quick note about this episode:
The questions from the audience were a little bit hard to hear, so in the interest of clarity, you’ll hear the questions read by Jay.
The Experiencer Group is a private online community dedicated to support, curiosity & community for people who’ve had anomalous events of all kinds. They hold regular support meetings for people who are processing anomalous experiences, book clubs, special guest speaker presentations, and more. You can learn more and sign up at tegmembers.com.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Whistleblower David Grusch Reveals Existence of Secret UFO Crash Retrieval Program
09 Jun 2023
00:50:26
On Monday, June 5th, 2023, a story was published by The Debrief presenting claims from the first whistleblower to step forward publicly since the passing of UAP whistleblower legislation with the 2023 National Defense Authorization Act a few months ago. This whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, is a high-level member of the intelligence community, and he is claiming to have knowledge of special access programs that have recovered non-human technological craft.
Later that same day, an excerpt from an interview with the whistleblower conducted by investigative journalist, Ross Coulthart, was aired on NewsNation in which Rusch made even more shocking claims—including the allegation that the US has also recovered the bodies of the non-human pilots of these craft.
In this episode we do a deep dive into this story, doing our best to frame it within the great context of the disclosure movement, and ask the question: what does all this mean? And can what David Grusch is saying really be true?
MUSIC Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMPS 00:30 Introduction 03:14 What Makes This Story So Significant? 07:10 Why Wasn’t The UFO Whistleblower Story In The New York Times? 10:02 What Led Up To This? 10:17 -Luis Elizondo & the 2017 New York Times Article 12:31 -The UAP Task Force 14:02 -AARO 16:50 -2023 NDAA 17:10 What Is David Charles Grusch? 20:10 Who Did Grusch Talk To? 20:42 What Did Grusch Tell Congress? 23:35 Wait—So David Grusch Never Saw The Craft Or Bodies? 27:19 How Do We Know David Grusch Is Who He Says He Is? 27:57 -Karl E. Nell 28:27 -Christopher Mellon 29:13 -Jonathan Grey 30:43 -Jim Shell 31:32 Retaliation and Disclosure of Urgent Concerns 34:02 David Grusch’s Interview with Ross Coulthart 37:08 Thoughts on the Interview 40:23 The Implications of Grusch’s Allegations 47:57 Pentagon Response 48:14 What Can We Do?
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Mike Clelland: Owls, UFOs, and the Unfathomable Unseen
01 Jun 2023
01:05:34
In this episode, I spoke with author, illustrator, and researcher, Mike Clelland. Mike is the author of several books, two of which we’ll be discussing directly in this episode. The first is The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity, and the UFO Abductee. The second is his latest release, The Unseen, which is a fiction book that deals with many of the themes of his other work. He also provided the illustrations for the book The Cryptoterrestrials: A Meditation on Indigenous Humanoids and the Aliens Among Us by Mac Tonnies, that we’ll also be discussing in this episode. You can find links to all of his work below.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 22: Waking Up Inside The Cave [Pt 2]: Simulation Theory & The Holographic Universe
25 May 2023
00:49:47
Today we’re diving into Part 2 of the Waking Up Inside The Cave series. If you haven’t listened to that part 1 yet, I highly recommend that you do so first. It’s linked in the episode brief.
For many who take the trip down the UFO rabbit hole, there comes a point where you find yourself asking much bigger questions about reality. It boils down to this:
The UFO phenomenon is impossible by every single measure that we use to determine such things, and yet it is. And the existence of the impossible posits that the models that we use to determine what is possible and what isn’t are irretrievably flawed. There is no other logical explanation. Frankly, if UFOs don’t make you question the nature of your reality, you haven’t understood them. In part 1 of this series, we took a closer look at the most fundamental mean-making models that we have starting with the very origins of the universe. And I made the case that very little about this narrative makes any kind of rational sense, and that its only real utility lies in explaining things away without actually explaining them at all. When exposed to the harsh light of objective interrogation, the consensus view of reality quickly dissipates like morning fog.
Plato’s Cave has become a touchstone in this podcast because it provides the perfect framework for discussing the process of pursuing this line of questioning. And as we begin to recognize that consensus reality is little more than a shadowplay on the wall, the inevitable questions arise:
Where are we? What is this place? And what is the shadowplay meant to conceal?
We discussed back in episode 18 in my first interview with James Madden that humans are natural cave builders. All of the greatest achievements of civilization have required that we be able to create shared worldviews and agreed upon meanings for things. It’s our superpower every bit as much as it is our weakness. And I think it’s important to keep in mind that just because we find ourselves in a cave doesn’t necessarily mean that someone put us there. The walls of the cave could be entirely self-created.
And yet, when you find yourself tied up in a cave and recognize that the very nature of your reality has been concealed, seemingly intentionally, it’s impossible not to wonder about who your potential captors might be–and about what strange new world might be waiting for you outside its walls.
Over the past several years a strange and disturbing idea has been popularized by everyone from futurists to tech billionaires–namely that we are living in a simulation. Could this be the explanation for the strange position in which we find ourselves? Could Plato’s Cave be more than just an allegory? Could what we perceive as our reality actually be our prison?
It sounds like the plot of The Matrix, but the more we learn, the more likely this unsettling scenario becomes. Buckle up, because this rabbit hole is going to be a wild ride.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Ryan Sprague: Stories from Somewhere in the Skies
11 May 2023
00:58:31
Ryan Sprague is the creator and host of the Somewhere in the Skies podcast and the author of the new book Stories from Somewhere in the Skies. He is a regular on Ancient Aliens (History Channel) and a lead investigator and co-host of Mysteries Decoded (CW Network). Sprague’s research finds him interviewing witnesses, scientists, military personnel, and intelligence officials directly on UFOs, writing for The Debrief. Speaking on UFOs, he has been featured on ABC News and 7News Australia. He has consulted for Amblin Entertainment and been featured in Newsweek, The NY Post, and VICE.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Dr. Avi Loeb of the Galileo Project
04 May 2023
00:51:24
In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Avi Loeb. Dr. Loeb was the longest serving chair of Harvard's Department of Astronomy from 2011–2020. In June 2020, he was sworn in as a member of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology. And, most relevant to today’s conversation, he is also currently the head of Harvard’s Galileo Project whose mission is the systematic scientific search for evidence of extraterrestrial technological artifacts.
CONTACT IN THE DESERT See Dr. Avi Loeb, Graham Hancock, George Noory and many more incredible speakers at Contact in the Desert taking place June 2-4, 2023.
Tickets are on sale now: https://contactinthedesert.com/
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 21: Dr. James Madden [Pt 2]: Unidentified Flying Hyperobject
27 Apr 2023
01:13:38
Today we welcome back Dr. James Madden to the show. As I’m sure you’ll recall, Jim joined us a couple of months ago for a discussion about Plato’s Cave. We also discussed some of his latest work applying the philosophical concept of the umwelt to the UFO phenomenon. And I was really excited to see that that episode has become one of the most listened to episodes of the podcasts, because it’s definitely one of my favorites. If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, I highly recommend that you go back to that one first. Jim’s work builds on itself, and it will be helpful to lay down the foundation with that episode before moving onto this one.
In this episode, we’ll be moving on to Dr. Madden’s latest work. Over the last few months, in a flurry of articles released through his Substack, Jim has laid out a series of arguments as to the nature of the UFO phenomenon that are, frankly, mind blowing. It’s not over-stating things to say that what Jim has done is to essentially break ufology–and I mean that in the best possible way.
Because, in many ways, it’s been clear to anyone who is really paying attention that the traditional models and ontologies that have dominated modern ufology have needed to break. We began this podcast talking about what the UFO phenomenon might be, and we did a deep dive into the primary hypotheses including extraterrestrial, ultraterrestrial, interdimensional, extraterrestrial, etc. And all of those models are really useful for helping us to push our thinking about what the intelligence behind UFOs may represent. But if we’re being really honest with ourselves, we have to admit that none of them really fit. They come close in some ways, fall short in others, and ultimately leave us feeling like we’re trying to stretch a full-sized sheet over a queen-sized bed.
What we’ve needed–desperately–is a model that would collapse all of those ontological categories and integrate them into a larger, more coherent whole. And I’d argue that what Dr. Madden is postulating with regard to the UFO phenomenon does exactly that. I truly believe that what he is pointing to here is the future of ufology. This work is urgent and critically important for us moving forward.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 20: An Interview with Dr. Iya Whiteley feat. Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka
19 Apr 2023
01:42:05
Today I’m bringing you something really special. A few weeks ago, Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka reached out to connect me with someone she thought I might be interested in interviewing for the podcast. Her name is Dr. Iya Whiteley and she is a space psychologist who is featured in Diana’s upcoming book due out in November entitled, Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligences.
Given the respect that I have for Diana and her work, her recommendation alone would have been enough for me to say yes. But the more she shared with me about Dr. Whiteley and her work, it became clear to me that this was an interview that I absolutely had to do.
This conversation touched me deeply, and I hope it speaks to you the way that it spoke to me.
MEET DR. IYA WHITELEY Dr. Iya Whiteley is a training developer for Astronauts with a background in Clinical Psychology and Cognitive Engineering. She leverages her skills and expertise, combined with her own insights and experiences as a pilot, skydiver, and scuba diver, to design both equipment and training programmes to improve the performance of highly trained professionals in extreme environments, including military pilots and astronauts.
Iya has also worked at the European Astronaut Centre (European Space Agency) in Cologne, Germany and now collaborates with NASA and the Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Centre in Star City, Russia.
Since having her own children, Iya has been using her unique skillset to work on laying the groundwork for a universal “Earth language”. To this end, she has designed high contrast black and white visual books for newborns to tap into their full developmental potential and give them the best possible start on our unique planet Earth.
MEET DR. DIANA WALSH PASULKA
Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka is a professor of religious studies and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. She holds a bachelor’s from UC Davis, a master’s from Berkeley, and a Ph.D. from Syracuse University. She is the author of Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory in Catholic Devotional and Popular Culture and American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology, which we will be discussing in this interview.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] UFO Disclosure News: An Interview with Christopher Sharp of Liberation Times
06 Apr 2023
00:46:29
As predicted, 2023 has already been a massive year for the UFO disclosure movement. As we seemingly gain momentum, and with a fresh round of congressional hearings on UAPs potentially just around the corner, this felt like the perfect moment to dive into the progress made so far.
And there’s no one better for this conversation than Christopher Sharp of the Liberation Times. Chris is an independent journalist hailing from the UK who has consistently been beating the mainstream media to the punch on some of the biggest stories related to UFO disclosure. The nuance and deep investigation that he brings to his work is one of the very few beacons of true journalism in this field. Beyond his work with the Liberation Times, Chris also regularly writes for the Daily Mail.
In this episode Chris shares:
🛸 What he's hearing from his sources about the origins of the mysterious objects shot down in Feb 🛸 The surprising source for the push for disclosure 🛸 What we can expect from upcoming Congressional UFO hearings (and when those might happen) 🛸 The scandal hiding in plain sight that has Congress finally clocking in on the UFO issue 🛸 And more
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] UFO Secrets Inside Wright-Patterson: An Interview with Thomas J. Carey
30 Mar 2023
01:16:44
In this episode, I talk to Thomas J. Carey, the co-author of UFO Secrets Inside Wright-Patterson. Along with his co-author, Donald R. Schmitt, Carey has spent over 30 years investigating the Roswell incident and tracing the trail of the materials and bodies that were recovered there all the way to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and beyond. They have published a dozen books on the subject (links below).
Among the many stunning revelations in this episode is the true identity and location of the fabled Hangar 18, the 2 undeniable smoking guns of the Roswell incident, an in-depth account of what became of the infamous “memory metal” recovered at Roswell, and detailed accounts of the non-human pilots of these craft.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] The Ohio UFO Heritage Conference: In The Shadow of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base
23 Mar 2023
01:24:28
THE CONFERENCE HAS BEEN POSTPONED. NEW DATES WILL BE ANNOUNCED SOON.
THE SPEAKERS
James Fox | Moment of Contact Bryce Zabel | Need To Know Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka | American Cosmic Dr. Michael Masters | The Extratempestrial Model Micah Hanks | Debrief Media ExoAcademian | Point of Convergence Jay Christopher King | The Experiencer Group Kelly Chase | The UFO Rabbit Hole Phil Ford | Weird Studies J.F. Martel | Weird Studies
TRY BETTERHELP This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.
MUSIC Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson Interludes: Particles by Nobou
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:34 The Ohio UFO Heritage Conference 00:12:42 Meet Conference Co-Chair, Jon Horvath 00:22:20 Meet Dr. Michael Masters 00:32:41 Meet Bryce Zabel 00:57:17 Meet Phil Ford & J.F. Martel from Weird Studies
Inquire Anomalous Presents [Ep 2]: Dr. Michael P. Masters on Extratempestrials & Contact Experiences
26 Apr 2024
00:58:37
The podcast is going to be on hiatus for a few more weeks as I work with the Ontocalupse team to wrap up production on our upcoming docuseries, The Beyond: UFOs & A New Reality, which is due out this summer.
But I didn’t want to leave you hanging, so in the meantime, I’ve teamed up with Jay Christopher King to bring you guys a series of unreleased talks from the phenomenal Inquiry into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conferences. In the second episode in this series, you’re going to hear what is one of my all-time favorite talks from Inquire Anomalous, which was given by Dr. Michael P. Masters this last December.
Regular listeners of the show are already familiar with Mike Masters as the guy who, quite literally, wrote the book on the extratempestrial hypothesis. You can find links to that and all of Mike’s books in the episode brief.
In his talk at Inquire Anomalous, Mike spoke publicly for the very first time about his own experiences of contact with non-human intelligences, including a very strange incident that occurred at the International UFO Congress in 2022. I was lucky enough to be present for this talk and to get to talk to Mike afterward, and I was absolutely blown away by his ability to speak so candidly about what he has experienced—and even more so by his bravery in stepping forward publicly. I’m deeply grateful to Mike for being willing to take that leap, and for inspiring me to do the same.
If you’d like to watch the full video of this interview, that will be posted on the Inquire Anomalous YouTube channel next week.
The Experiencer Group is a private online community dedicated to support, curiosity & community for people who’ve had anomalous events of all kinds. They hold regular support meetings for people who are processing anomalous experiences, book clubs, special guest speaker presentations, and more. You can learn more and sign up at tegmembers.com.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.
Ep 19: Waking Up Inside The Cave [Pt 1]: Everything You Know Is Wrong
09 Mar 2023
01:02:43
In many ways, our trip down the rabbit hole has been leading us, inevitably, to this episode. It’s in this episode that we reach a decisive inflection point. Nothing will be the same after this—maybe not even you.
Over the previous 18 episodes, I have done my best to make the case, not only that the UFO phenomenon is real, but that the complexity, ubiquity, and unintelligibility of the phenomenon are so great as to suggest that many of our most fundamental assumptions about the nature of reality itself may be incorrect.
This episode is my closing argument in the case of The Phenomenon vs. Consensus Reality. And when it’s done, I hope that you’ll agree with me that it’s time to burn it all down. Or at the very least, I hope you’ll agree that perhaps it’s time to consider some new models of reality that have the potential to reintroduce meaning and intelligibility into our broken world where impossible things won’t stop happening.
In this episode, we’ll begin by talking about what’s broken with our current models including the Big Bang, the hard problem of consciousness, quantum mechanics, and space-time. And we begin to ask, what do our broken models suggest about the nature of the cave that we find ourselves in? And what does all of this have to do with UFOs?
MUSIC Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson Music Break: Digital Abyss by Stephen Keech
TIMESTAMPS 00:00:30 Introduction 00:04:03 The “Official Story of Everything” 00:07:00 The Dream of the Cave 00:13:55 Everything You Know Is Wrong 00:19:45 The Big Bang 00:29:28 The Ghost in the Machine 00:37:35 Music Break 00:38:32 The Hard Problem of Consciousness 00:45:52 Quantum Mechanics Breaks Everything 00:55:22 Space-Time Is Doomed 00:57:35 The Emperor Has No Clothes 01:01:25 The Walls of the Cave
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 18: An Interview with Dr. James Madden: Philosophy & UFOs
09 Feb 2023
02:05:28
In this episode, I’m bringing you an interview with Dr. James Madden, professor of philosophy at Benedictine University. He is a martial artist, fitness coach, and philosopher with particular interest in the philosophy of mind, aesthetics, philosophy of religion, Aristotelianism, and phenomenology.
If you’ll recall from the last episode, Diana mentioned Dr. Madden as someone who shared her “spooky” interpretation of the Cave. I first met Jim when he was a speaker in one of Diana’s classes over the summer on this subject, and I really enjoyed learning from him. He has a really coherent way of placing the Cave within its proper context both within Plato’s Republic and within its historical context that opens up these ideas in inspiring and challenging ways.
So that’s where we’ll start, with an hour-long deep dive into Plato’s Cave, and what it implies for the nature of both reality and the UFO phenomenon. And then in the second half of the interview, we’ll turn to Dr. Madden’s latest philosophical work with regard to the phenomenon including what Heidegger reveals to us about the life and work of Godfather of Modern Ufology, Jaques Vallee, what Aristotle’s natural theology suggests about the potential nature of non-human intelligence, and how that work is being continued in the modern day by Dr. Jeffrey Kripal of Rice University. And finally, we’ll explore Dr. Madden’s fascinating hypothesis for the origins of the UFO phenomenon through the concept of the “umwelt”.
I hope you all enjoy this conversation as much as I enjoyed having it. This is my longest episode to date because we were having such a blast that I completely lost track of time. And when I went back to listen again, there wasn’t anything that I wanted to cut out. If you enjoy wading out into the deep end of the UFO phenomenon, this episode is for you.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 17: An Interview with Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka
26 Jan 2023
01:38:00
In this episode, I’m bringing you an interview with one of my personal heroes, Dr. Diana Walsh Paslka. Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka is a professor of religious studies and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. She holds a bachelor’s from UC Davis, a master’s from Berkeley, and a Ph.D. from Syracuse University. She is the author of Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory in Catholic Devotional and Popular Culture and American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology, which we will be discussing in this interview.
MUSIC Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMPS 00:00:30 Intro 00:05:03 How does a scholar of religion end up writing a book about UFOs? [Backstory of American Cosmic] 00:10:57 Why the next big breakthrough in the space program will come from the field of religious studies. 00:14:33 What can we learn from studying Tyler’s protocols? 00:18:14 What should we make of the simplicity of Tyler’s protocols? 00:22:43 What is Tyler communicating with? 00:26:07 What’s going on in the space program? 00:30:25 Civil religion & UFOs 00:34:11 Having a front row seat to the birth of a myth/belief/religion 00:38:15 Diana’s transition from UFO atheist to UFO agnostic 00:43:39 “The Question Concerning Technology” by Martin Heidegger 00:57:36 What does the Monolith in Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey tell us about the relationship between media and technology? 01:04:39 Jordan Peele’s Nope and the relationship between media and belief 01:08:32 Society of the Spectacle 01:13:17 Plato’s Cave 01:24:21 Plato’s Republic & the impossibility of justice 01:26:45 Ontological shock & re-entering the cave 01:29:34 The danger of Technology 01:34:48 What to expect from Diana’s new book
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 16: The Sky Calls To Us: The Occult Origins Of The Space Race
20 Jan 2023
01:18:28
In this episode, we’re discussing one of the most profound transitions in human history–that of our evolution from a terrestrial species to a spacefaring one. And as we examine the history and origins of the space programs in both the United States and the Soviet Union, we discover one of the most remarkable and baffling stories ever told, hiding in plain sight.
To put it simply, many of the fathers of modern space flight were occultists who believed themselves to be in direct communication with non-human intelligences who were helping to guide their work. While their claims sound too extraordinary to even be considered, the startling breadth and innovation of the work that they claim sprang for this paranormal communication makes it difficult not to wonder if perhaps there might have been something to those claims.
We’ll discuss the work of Jack Parsons, an intrepid young rocket scientist and occultist who palled around with the likes of Aleister Crowley, L. Ron Hubbard, and Howard Hughes, whose remarkable life was cut short by his mysterious death at 37. And we’ll also explore the work of Russian Cosmists like Konstantine Tsiolkovsky whose prophetic work seemingly foretold the intricate details of space flight decades before Yuri Gagarin became the first man in space.
And once again, we’ll look at Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka’s phenomenal book American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology clues to whether these occult practices might still be in use among top members of the space program today. And the answers are, frankly, shocking.
In this episode we’ll begin to ask some of the most important questions that will follow us on our journey forward:
What is the occult? What does the occult have to do with UFOs? How is it that so many “impossible” things seem to have a basis in reality? And what do we do when our models of reality stop working?
Announcements: What To Expect In 2023 [I'm So Excited!]
07 Jan 2023
00:16:36
It's a brand new year, and I have so many exciting updates to share with you all about the podcast—including the fact that you're about to get a WHOLE LOT more episodes! Get all of these updates, including when you can expect episode 16, in this quick bonus episode.
TRY BETTERHELP This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 15: The Moon Is Weird AF: The Apollo Missions & The Mysterious Origins Of The Moon
18 Nov 2022
01:09:36
Welcome back to The UFO Rabbit Hole podcast. Today we turn our attention to our nearest neighbor, and the anchor for some of those most compelling and mysterious stories in the UFO lore—the Moon.
Hanging serenely in the night sky, its face unchanging aside from the precise pendulum swing of the lunar cycle, the Moon is our constant companion. It’s the one heavenly body that we can easily observe with the naked eye, and as such it feels deeply familiar to us.
But what if there is more to the Moon than we ever realized? It’s an unnerving thought to consider that the Moon as we know it might not be what we think it is at all. But that’s exactly what the deep UFO lore surrounding the Moon suggests.
In this episode we’ll discuss theories for the origins of the Moon (including the theory that it might be an alien superstructure), the mysteries surrounding the Apollo missions and the moon landing, what some of the top astronauts from the early space program have said about the Moon, and we’ll even tell a story about Neil Armstrong that I, frankly, straight up didn’t believe the first time I heard it.
MUSIC Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson Music Break One: Insomniac’s Dream by Sémø Moon Landing: No One Is Out Here by Yehezkel Raz Outro: Moon by Space DovesSupport the show
In the final installment of our series on Nazis & UFOs, we’re doing a deep dive on one of the most beloved—and most mysterious—stories in the lore: that of Admiral Byrd, Operation Highjump, and Hollow Earth.
Rumors have abounded for decades that, after WWII, what remained of the Third Reich escaped to a sprawling secret base under the ice in Antarctica—the mythical Station 211. But could this story be more than a mere wartime legend?In 1947, the largest military operation since the end of the war embarked from the United States to Antarctica, allegedly on a scientific expedition. But could Operation Highjump, lead by famed explorer and America hero, Admiral Richard E. Byrd, have had another mission? Could they have been in search of the fabled Nazi base?
What they found in Antarctica has been a matter of much debate, with some saying that they encountered secret Nazi technology—including the infamous flying saucer—and still others claim that Admiral Byrd made contact with a super advanced race of humanoids from Hollow Earth.
Could any of this possibly be true? We’ll investigate and find out.
In part 3 of the Nazis & UFOs series we explore the soure of some of the most outlandish and intriguing stories in UFO lore—Antarctica.
In 1938, Nazi Germany made an expedition to Antarctica where they claimed territory. What could have compelled them to make that investment of time and resources in the lead up to WWII? Were they looking for something? And could they have found it?After the war, rumors swirled that what remained of the Third Reich escaped to secret bases in Antarctica, and from there the mystique only grew. Since then, a baroque mythology has sprung up around the southernmost continent, with each new twist and turn only adding to mystery.
Today, we’ll dive into some of the most popular—and bizarre—theories as to what the Nazis may have found in Antarctica—including the lost city of Atlantis, an unknown ancient culture from the distant past, secret alien bases, and more.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 12: Nazis & UFOs [Pt 2]: The Occult & Secret Technology
27 Jun 2022
01:01:55
In part 2 of our 3 part series on the intersection of Nazi and UFO lore during WWII, we’ll be diving into two major themes of this mythology: the occult and secret technology. We’ll be getting into everything in this episode: German occult clubs, Theosophy, secret technology, Die Glocke, foo fighters, the search for the Holy Grail and other relics, and more.
And as we begin to untangle this dense and sprawling lore, we’ll see a new narrative being to emerge—one of humanity grappling with the unthinkable.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 11: Nazis & UFOs [Pt 1]: The Emergence Of UFO Lore
19 May 2022
00:58:31
In part one of this 3-part series on the UFO lore connected to WWII and Nazi Germany, we begin by doing a deep dive into the emergence of UFO lore itself. While there is a ton of UFO lore connected to WWII, what is largely considered to be the first modern UFO sighting didn’t happen until 1947—2 years after the war ended. So to understand exactly what was going on during WWII, we need to first understand, not just how UFO lore first emerged, but how belief systems in general emerge and evolve over time.
We’ll talk about the ontological complexity of the 20th century, the sequence of events in 1947 that shaped our modern understanding of the phenomenon, and dive deeper into the mystery surrounding the lore to ask some of the bigger questions. This includes one question that I never thought I’d ask, which is—could the emergence of UFO mythology be the seeds of a modern religion?A massive shout out to Diana Walsh Pasulka for her incredible book, American Cosmic, which helped me look at the phenomenon in a whole new light and played a big role in shaping this episode.
Inquire Anomalous Presents [Ep 1]: Tim Gallaudet on USOs & Underwater Anomalies
03 Apr 2024
00:53:12
Today, I’m bringing you something a little different. As most of you already know, my new media company, Ontocalypse Productions—headed up by myself, Jay Christopher King, and Jordan Flowers, is currently in the midst of completing our first docuseries due out this summer entitled The Beyond: UFOs & A New Reality.
While we’re hard at work on that, posting for the podcast will be a little bit more sporadic over the next few weeks, but rest-assured that The UFO Rabbit Hole will be back to its regularly scheduled programming in June. And you’ll still be getting a couple more new episodes in the meantime, including part 2 of the Through The Looking Glass series before then.
But while things are a little quieter around here, I thought it would be a great opportunity to bring you guys something special. That’s why I’m teaming up with Jay to bring you a series of never-before-released talks from his phenomenal Inquiry into Anomalous Experience & the Phenomenon conference series—or Inquire Anomalous for short. Regular listeners of the show have definitely heard me talk about Inquire Anomalous before. These have been my absolute favorite conferences to attend over the past few years. They’re small, intimate, and the all-star line up of speakers who are truly on the bleeding edge of anomalous studies makes it a truly unmatched experience.
In this first talk presented by Inquire Anomalous, we’ll be hearing from Tim Gallaudet. Tim Gallaudet is a retired Rear Admiral in the U.S. Navy, and a career oceanographer. His former roles include serving as the Deputy Administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), as well as the Oceanographer of the Navy. He’s also the former superintendent of the U.S. Naval Observatory.
More recently, Admiral Gallaudet has made exciting contributions to the field of UAP studies, particularly in the realm of the too-often overlooked subject of USOs or Unidentified Submersible Objects. He recently released a new article through the Sol Foundation which is a must-read on the topic. You can find that linked int he episode brief below.
The Experiencer Group is a private online community dedicated to support, curiosity & community for people who’ve had anomalous events of all kinds. They hold regular support meetings for people who are processing anomalous experiences, book clubs, special guest speaker presentations, and more. You can learn more and sign up at tegmembers.com.
BECOME A PATRON Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 10: A Rational Approach To Ancient Aliens [Pt 3]: Non-Human Intervention & Cataclysms
03 Apr 2022
01:24:41
In the final part of this 3 part series, A Rational Approach to Ancient Aliens, we finally get to the good stuff—non-human intervention and cyclical global cataclysms. We’ll start by taking a tour of some of the most mysterious archeological sites in the world: from Puma Punku in Bolivia to Baalbek in Lebanon. We’ll even talk about a sunken city off the coast of Cuba that may be 50,000 years old.
Do these anomalous sites prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the ancient alien theory is true, and that human civilization was guided—or perhaps even seeded—but a super advanced intelligence in the distant past?
And finally, we’ll look at the evidence surrounding the cataclysm that kicked off the Younger Dryas as well as examine the possibility that a more dramatic and profound cycle of global disasters may be responsible for shaping human history.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 9: A Rational Approach to Ancient Aliens [Pt 2]: The Secret History Of Human Civilization
09 Mar 2022
01:10:13
In this episode we dive into part 2 of our series on the concept of ancient aliens by examining whether or not the UFO phenomenon may have played some role in the emergence of human civilization.
Human civilization is the manifestation of everything that makes the human species so unique—but how did it evolve? Where did it come from? To attempt to answer this question we’ll look at how we define civilization and how we identify it in the archeological record. We’ll look at the story of human civilization according to mainstream academics, as well as evidence that this story is incorrect.And finally, we’ll begin to discuss how the story of human civilization might be rewritten, and the role that the UFO phenomenon may have played—along with other startling possibilities.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 8: A Rational Approach To Ancient Aliens [Pt 1]: Archeology & Epistemology
15 Feb 2022
00:56:38
Over the last seven episodes, we’ve established that the Pentagon has admitted that UFOs are real, that they are operating with impunity in our airspace, and that we don’t know what they are. We’ve talked through some of the most common explanations for what the UFO phenomenon might be, considering everything from secret human technology to future humans and from extraterrestrials to ultraterrestrials. We’ve also met some—though certainly not all of the main players in the current disclosure movement.
Although we’ve covered a lot of ground, when it comes to understanding the full scope of the UFO phenomenon and its implications for humankind, we’ve barely scratched the surface.
In this episode, we’ll begin to tackle some of the most fundamental questions raised by the UFO phenomenon—starting with the question of whether the UFO phenomenon may have had an influence on our ancestors in the distant past. For many, this line of questioning brings to mind Ancient Aliens, and the ancient astronaut theory, but there are other equally startling and profound possibilities that are suggested by the evidence as well—including the idea that the story of human civilization is far longer and far more dazzling that we ever imagined.
But before we can begin to truly tackle these questions, we need to spend some time talking about the epistemology of archeology—what do we know, what can we know, and how sure are we that the established narrative of human history is correct?
We’ll do a quick intro to epistemology, discuss some of the verification challenges that exist within archeology, explore the limits of our current dating techniques and the unique challenges that we encounter in attempting to date megalithic structures. We’ll also look at the academia and the peer review system to identify the ways that the most innovative and potentially impactful ideas can be systematically rejected and marginalized. And finally, we’ll talk about the difference between science and pseudoscience, and establish a simple framework that we can use to tell the difference between the two.
[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 7: Mr. Delonge Goes To Washington [Pt 2]: It Gets Crazier
03 Feb 2022
00:40:47
In this episode, we pick up with Tom Delonge where we left off in Part 2—with the stunning and unlikely events that led to the formation of the To The Stars Academy of Arts & Sciences and ultimately to the Pentagon’s admission that UFOs are real.
So what happened to TTSA? What are the original TTSA members (including Lou Elizondo, Chris Mellon, Jim Semivan, Hal Puthoff, and Steve Justice) doing now? In this episode we’ll get an update. We’ll also explore why it is, that despite his astonishing success and ultimate vindication, that Tom Delonge continues to be a controversial figure in the UFO community.
And finally, we’ll get to the part that everyone has been waiting for—what does Tom Delonge believe about the UFO phenomenon? It’s been confirmed that Delonge’s advisors within the government weren’t just real, but they are the very people who would know what secrets the government might be hiding about UFOs. So with this insider knowledge and guidance, one has to assume that what Delonge says publicly about his beliefs surrounding the phenomena has been shaped significantly by his exposure to and briefings by these individuals. Which is exactly why what Tom Delonge has to say about UFOs is so shocking.