When politics feels less like a news cycle and more like a full-body stress test, we hit pause and ask the real question: how do we actually defend democracy, right now, with real people?

This week, Nora and Marcus sit down with Hannah Fried, CEO and co-founder of All Voting Is Local, for a conversation that's sharp, human, and refreshingly free of abstract hand-wringing. Fried breaks down how election interference actually works, not just the unhinged headline moments, but the quieter stuff: bureaucratic choke points, "technical" rule changes, and the slow grind of making voting harder on purpose. And she explains how organizers across the country are fighting back year-round to keep the ballot accessible, secure, and dignified.

It's urgent without being apocalyptic, hopeful without being naïve, and a reminder that democracy isn't a vibe, it's a practice. It lives in communities, relationships, and showing up over and over again. And when someone tries to take your vote? Hannah Fried is very clear: that's your cue to fight like hell.

Mentioned in the episode: 

All Voting is Local | I am Legend | Minneapolis to ICE: Get the Fuck Out 

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

We're dropping this mini-episode as new details emerge around the fatal shooting of Renee Nicole Good by an ICE agent. Nora and Marcus cut through the fog, the spin, and the both-sides media haze to talk plainly about what the video shows, what federal officials are claiming, and why those two things are in direct conflict.

They unpack how language is being weaponized to justify lethal force, why U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement accountability feels intentionally out of reach, and how this killing fits into a broader, deeply disturbing pattern. The stakes are named without euphemism: what happened to Renee could happen to anyone. And that is precisely why people are still showing up, still filming, still bearing witness, and still refusing the quiet that unaccountable power depends on.

Mentioned in the episode: 

ProPublica Report on ICE violence against protestors | ProPublica: What the Trump Administration's Videos From a Chicago Immigration Raid Don't Show | Pramila Jayapal on KING5 | Jan 7 2026 ICE protest in Seattle| Ijeoma Oluo

Support the pod:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Nora and Marcus are back—running on caffeine, civic duty, and sheer willpower—joined once again by Charles Douglas III of Common Power. Together, they break down the chaos that is election week: why Seattle's slow counts might actually be a good sign, what the polls keep getting it spectacularly wrong, and how to turn that fleeting campaign adrenaline into real, lasting community power. They dive into big-tent politics, the art of re-humanizing our movements, and why voting should be so boring it's revolutionary. Charles brings the hope, the humor, and a reminder that democracy isn't a one-night stand—it's the long-term relationship we build together, one conversation, one community meal, and one ballot at a time.

Mentioned in the episode: 

Guest Rant: Now is the Time to Hope, and Vote | Common Power | Protesters at Kamala's book talk in Seattle | Nancy Pelosi retiring | Insider trading among elected officials | Wall Street Billionaires Now Offering to Help Mamdani | Graham Platner | Prime Minister | Rebecca Solnit on 2024 election | Mike Davis: Despair is Useless

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

It's that time again, when democracy throws on a sequined gown, downs a few too many shots of optimism, and texts us at 2 a.m. like, "Hey stranger… you up to vote?"

This week, Nora and Marcus are joined by Charles Douglas III of Common Power to talk about what happens beyond Election Day: the gritty, essential, and deeply human work of keeping people fed, fired up, and politically awake once the confetti settles and the hashtags fade.

Because when the ballots are counted and the headlines move on, the real story begins — the one we write together. Lucky for us, democracy's still kicking, but only if we keep showing up to do the steady, everyday, occasionally caffeine-addled work of keeping it alive.

Mentioned in the episode: 

Common Power | Seattle Mayoral election | Tressie McMillan Cottom article | The Stranger - How a KUOW story became a weapon in the mayor's race | Community support and mutual aid during Montgomery Bus Boycott | Kat Abughazaleh | Mamdani campaign soccer match, scavenger hunt | Atlantic Magazine: Trump's plan to subvert the midterms | New Disabled South campaign for SNAP benefits | Oregon Coffee Shop raises money for free food | Barbara Golden | South Seattle Emerald | Dick Gregory sparks in darkness 

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo: Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

What happens when you combine nude bicyclists, dancing frogs, and 7 million patriots saying "hell no"? Joyous resistance. Though MAGA would prefer we forget it, protest is as American as apple pie - from the Boston Tea Party to the summer of 2020. This week, Marcus and Nora are joined by Nadine Bloch - activist artist, puppetista, movement facilitator, and nonviolent organizer - to debrief No Kings 2.0 and talk about what's next. As authoritarian 'creep' becomes authoritarian creeps at warp speed, how can communities mobilize sustained, creative, and even joyous nonviolence resistance? Bloch walks us through noncooperation strategies, offering equal parts pragmatic hope and realistic appraisals of the fight we're up against. It's a call for all of us to dig deep, get organized, and, as Bloch puts it, "make revolution irresistible." Just try to walk away uninspired! 

Mentioned in the episode: 

Freedom Trainers | Seattle strike 1919 | Flint Michigan strike 1937 | Montgomery Bus Boycott | Washington Spirit 'Free DC' chant | jury ullification | malicious compliance | Japan's new prime minister | Beautiful Trouble: A Toolbox for Revolution | Marcus' latest stranger column| ICE spending on weapons | Year of Yes | Paul Ingrassia | No Kings was the largest mass protest in US history | Colleges rejecting Trump's Faustian Bargain

More of Nadine's work:

Beautiful Rising: Creative Resistance from the Global South | We Are Many, Reflections on Movement Strategy from Occupation to Liberation | From Airtable to Zoom: An A-to-Z Guide to Digital Tech and Activism | Education & Training in Nonviolent Resistance | SNAP: An Action Guide to Synergizing Nonviolent Action and Peacebuilding | WagingNonviolence | Endpoliticalviolence.org 

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Chicago is not a war zone. It's a community under siege, refusing to flinch. This week, Nora and Marcus talk with Chicago Alderman Byron Sigcho-Lopez about what happens when federal power turns local neighborhoods into testing grounds for fear, and how people fight back with tamale deliveries, neighborhood networks, and unapologetic solidarity. It's a raw, unfiltered look at what resistance actually means when the cameras leave: mutual aid, protest, and the daily act of refusing to look away. It's also a gentle nudge on the importance of keeping people "productively uncomfortable"—a mix of hope, humor, and a rallying cry for anyone wondering how to resist when democracy feels like it's on clearance. Spoiler: it starts on your block.

Mentioned in the episode:

Leaked messages expose Young Republicans' racist chat | Mother Jones on the Dual State Theory | 12 Years a Slave | No Kings Oct 18 | Apple pulls ICE tracking apps under government pressure | Chicago tamale vendor kidnapped | Rideshare drivers targeted at O'Hare | Chicago TV Producer arrested | Broadview resistance to ICE | Colorful Portland ICE protest met with state violence | 25th Ward | AP News: Using helicopters and chemical agents, immigration agents become increasingly aggressive in Chicago | Silverio Villegas Gonzalez murdered by ICE | Murder of Laquan McDonald | Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson | Chicago Executive Order: ICE Free Zone | 40% decrease in Illinois prison population | Chicago ceasefire resolution | Seattle Mariners on the brink of World Series | VICE: John Mayer and D'Angelo Backed by The Roots Is the Dream Performance You Didn't Know You Needed

ICE Resistance and Chicago Resources: Illinois Coalition for Immigrant & Refugee Rights | Mutual Aid Map | City Bureau: How to Get Help Amid ICE Raids in Chicago | Kelly Hayes - They Came for Our Neighbors. We Showed Up. | Look for the Helpers - Chicago | How to Start a Walking School Bus | Whistle Warriors - Printable resources and Meetups | Street Vendors Association of Chicago | Chicago Operation Buyout | Hands Off Chicago | Legal Resources and Assistance from TRP Immigrant Justice

More on Alderman Byron Sigcho-Lopez: ABC News: Chicago alderman on the immigration crackdown sweeping the Windy City | Sigcho-Lopez on Democracy Now!

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

When the news starts looking like a haunted carnival (panic at 6, Prozac at 11), who are we supposed to trust? This week, Nora and Marcus grab the scalpel and dig into our media's open wounds with writer/editor Maggie Mertens and journalist/therapist Sarah Stuteville. They talk billionaire capture of news, the gutting of public media, and "toxic empathy"—which, to be honest, is just what people say when they're allergic to compassion. Together, they sketch a sane news diet (follow people, not brands), make the case for independent, community-rooted outlets, and ask how we turn doom into doing—from ICE resistance to Gaza coverage. It's a much-needed bit of group therapy for anyone trying to stay human in the headlines.

Mentioned in the episode:

Maggie Mertens: The State of 'The Media' is Bad. What's an Independent Journalist to do? | Photo of pastor being pepper sprayed in Chicago | Toxic Empathy on Today Explained | NPR: One Palestinian Family Shares Their Story of Loss | Study: Profiling Misinformation Susceptibility | South Seattle Emerald | Study: empathy gap + privilege | Children zip tied in Chicago ICE Raid | Cascade PBS Layoffs | CPB is shutting down | Better Faster Farther | Mistakes Were Made | Margin Call

Follow Maggie: https://maggiemertens.substack.com/

Follow Sarah: https://www.sarahstuteville.com/

Support the pod: Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus debrief a joy-sparking night with Stacey Abrams before wading into America's latest authoritarian cosplay. They're then joined by Kashana Cauley—TV writer, comedian, and author of The Payback, a razor-sharp novel about debt, policing, and survival told with humor as cutting as it is honest. She talks about why gallows humor is both a shield and a call to collective resistance. Together, they dig into scrappy resistance led by ordinary people, why "voter apathy" is really despair, and how fiction can punch holes in bad policy.

Plus: an "Eight Ounces of Joy" palate cleanser—Reading Rainbow is back (yes, with Mychal the Librarian)—reminding us the future still has libraries, laughter, and reasons not to yeet our phones into the Sound.

Mentioned in the episode:

The Payback | The Survivalists | Debt Collective | Stacey Abrams at Town Hall Seattle | Pete Hegseth doing pull ups | HUD website announcement | NSPM-7 | Reading Rainbow is back! With Mychal Threets | Assata Shakur | Kashana at the University of Illinois Chicago Oct. 29th

Follow Kashana Cauley: @kashana.blacksky.app 

Support the pod:

Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise 

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus tear into the clown-car chaos of American public health: vaccine policy whiplash, Trump's acetaminophen-ass-head-of-men moment, and RFK Jr. running HHS like a crystal-healing Etsy shop. Then they call in Yale epidemiologist and longtime AIDS activist Gregg Gonsalves, who's been in the trenches since ACT UP. He reminds us: public health has always been political, authoritarians hate experts because they tell the truth, and the real antidote isn't just clapbacks, it's organizing from your school board to your statehouse.

And because you can't fight pseudoscience on an empty soul, we end with Eight Ounces of Joy: Kubota Garden peace and a serendipitous cross-country friend reunion. Proof that even in the darkest timeline, you can still find a little sunlight, solace, and maybe even a hydrangea that outlives the administration.

Mentioned in the episode:

Gregg Gonsalves | When AIDS Was Funny | Sick From Freedom | Why doesn't the United States have universal health care? The answer has everything to do with race | RFK Jr., American Psycho | ProPublica reporting on Russell Vought | Research paper on Measles/polio/diphtheria becoming endemic | How Public Health Took Part in its Own Downfall | Defend Public Health | Tom Holman accepting bags of cash |  ACOG: Acetaminophen in Pregnancy | Marcus on Kubota Garden | 

Support the pod:

Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise 

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Whelp, here's the episode where we finally ask: democracy or dystopia, which one needs fewer bunkers? Marcus and Nora open on a week so wild it made "Make America Boring Again" sound visionary, then dive in with Douglas Rushkoff (creator of Team Human, and author of Survival of the Richest). We unpack why tech billionaires keep fantasizing about escape hatches, Hawaii compounds, New Zealand bunkers, and DIY Martian hydration, while the rest of us are left with the bill (and the algorithms). Rushkoff maps the feedback loop between accelerationist politics, growth-at-all-costs tech, and a media machine allergic to context, then offers an antidote: cap the "more," rebuild local, practice mutual aid, rediscover awe, and value time for its own sake. It's funny, salty, and surprisingly hopeful.

Mentioned in the episode:

AGI | Degrowth movement | The Social Dilemma | Black Wall Street | Robert Redford: the Company You Keep | Rev. Dr. Howard John Wesley: how you die does not redeem the life you lived | Journalist firings following death of Charlie Kirk | Michaela's story on SoundSide | Gabriel Teodros | Before trilogy

Douglas's work:

Team Human podcast | Generation Like | The Persuaders | Merchants of Cool | Survival of the Richest: Escape Fantasies of the Tech Billionaires

Support the pod:

Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise 

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus speak with the one and only Tricia Rose: cultural critic, Brown professor, and professional breaker of lazy narratives. We get into "metaracism" (aka the system isn't broken, it's working as intended), why stories move policy more than charts, and her interactive project Way Outta No Way that makes systemic racism visible without putting you to sleep. Rose points to real leverage points, like ending property-tax funding for public schools, and reminds us that collective care (and yes, jokes) are strategy, not fluff. If you've ever wondered how to steal the pen back from power, this is your starter kit.

Note - 9/15/25: the original version of this episode contained an error in Professor Rose's title. Professor Tricia Rose is the Chancellor's Professor of Africana Studies and Director of the Systemic Racism and Resilience Project at the John Nicholas Brown Center for Advanced Study at Brown University.

Mentioned in the episode:

Tricia Rose | Tricia Rose and Larry Elder on Al Jazeera (Internet Archive) | Way Outta No Way | The Nap Ministry | Metaracism by Tricia Rose | Wild Faith by Talia Levin | History lives here at NAAM

Follow Prof. Rose:

https://www.instagram.com/proftriciarose | https://bsky.app/profile/proftriciarose.bsky.social 

Support the pod:

Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise 

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Nora and Marcus sit down with Renée Hopkins, CEO of the Alliance for Gun Responsibility, to talk about a grim reality we're supposed to pretend is normal: gun violence that's killing kids every day while politicians offer therapeutic platitudes and zero legislation. 

But here's the twist—Hopkins and her team have actually made progress on this issue. While the rest of the country cycles through outrage, helplessness, fear, and legislative paralysis, Washington state has been quietly passing comprehensive gun safety laws. Background checks, extreme risk protection orders, safe storage requirements—turns out you can regulate tools of mass death without the constitution bursting into flames. 

It's a conversation about how we misunderstand both where gun violence comes from and who it most impacts, and the policy wins that are saving the biggest killer of pregnant women and children across the US. Bring tissues. Bring rage. And maybe bring some faith that steady progress beats thoughts and prayers every time.

Mentioned in the episode:

Alliance for Gun Responsibility | Call RFK: 202-690-7000 | Shakespearean Insult Generator | Awe by Dacher Kelter

Support the pod:

Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise 

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

2025 is finally over! In this week's episode, Nora and Marcus take stock of a year that felt like two cursed decades duct-taped together, and ask the real question: what do we keep? Enter Alex Gallo-Brown, a labor organizer, poet, and the campaign manager behind Seattle's very real, very satisfying David-beats-Goliath mayoral upset. Together, they dig into how a scrappy, people-powered campaign took on big money, establishment politics, and doomscroll-induced despair—and won. It's a conversation about solidarity, humor as resistance, democracy vouchers, and why ordinary people stepping into the halls of power might be the most hopeful story we've got for the year ahead.

Mentioned in the episode: 

Ep 3: Civic Bravery | Ep 8: Gabriel Teodros | Ep 11: Katie Wilson | Income Inequality in the US | AP: Here's why everyone's talking about a K shaped economy | Democracy Vouchers | Pablo Neruda | Labor Notes Books | Works & Days by Gina Myers | Bristlecone pines

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Nora and Marcus take listeners on a wild ride through America's collapsing systems, plus the unlikely origin story of this very podcast: part DIY zine, part serendipity, part awkward poetry class with an ex, and a Town Hall conversation that revealed GoFundMe has effectively become our national healthcare system… just with nicer branding. Along the way, they dig into Nora's groundbreaking work on crowdfunding, showing how desperation got repackaged as an "internet take action button" while the real structural injustices stayed put. It's a conversation about inequity, resilience, and why mutual aid might be the only antidote to living in the "meanwhile." Sure, it's a little enraging, BUT you'll laugh through the fury (and yes, that counts as your cardio for the day).

Mentioned in the episode:

Marcus's first article, featuring Nora | Nora & Marcus's Town Hall Talk on YouTube | Heather Cox Richardson at Town Hall | Crowded Out | White women wasting ICE's time | Our episode with Dean Spade

Support the pod:

Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise 

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus chat it up with Dr. Daudi Abe about America's hottest commodity: ignorance, which is now streaming in a classroom near you! From states rebranding slavery as "involuntary relocation with benefits" to classrooms streaming PragerU like it's the Disney Channel, we dive into how the powerful weaponize misinformation to keep us confused, divided, and buying Hulk Hogan bobbleheads instead of books. It's hilarious, terrifying, and just the kind of conversation you need if you're trying to make sense of why critical thinking is being treated like contraband. Oh, and Dr. Abe has a special message for anyone crying that higher education leads to indoctrination…

Mentioned in the episode:

Deadhorse Canyon | Man or Bear | Marcus's article on Homer in the South Seattle Emerald | Book: A Festival of Violence

Support the pod:

Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise 

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

The broligarchy isn't just cringe, it's deeply dangerous. This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sit down with Dan McQuillan, author of Resisting AI, to unpack how artificial intelligence isn't changing the game—it's rigging it in favor of authoritarianism. McQuillan breaks down how Silicon Valley has found its perfect dance partner in far-right movements, and offers a crucial blueprint for resistance. By rejecting the lie that AI dominance is useful or inevitable, McQuillan maps out how we can refuse this technological takeover and build something better in its place. Enter "decomputing": the radical idea that communities can organize alternative infrastructures based on care, mutual aid, and actual human judgment instead of algorithmic solutionism. 

Part organizing manual, part explainer on Elon's tasteless Nazi fan fiction, this episode is necessary listening for anyone who's ever wondered if we're sleepwalking into a dystopian tech future. Spoiler alert: we are. But we don't have to be.

Mentioned in the episode:

Resisting AI by Dan McQuillan | Decomputing as Resistance by Dan McQuillan | Resisting the Techno-Fascist Takeover by Dan McQuillan | Travis Kalanick on doing "vibe physics" | A Former DOGE Employee Gives His Account of Working for the Operation, NPR. | More Everything Forever, by Adam Becker | Empire of AI, by Karen Hao | The Interview: The Grody-Patinkin Family is a Mess. People Love It. | Pathetic Spiritual Practice with Rev. Denise M. Cawley

Find Dan McQuillan on social media: 

https://x.com/danmcquillan | https://bsky.app/profile/danmcquillan.bsky.social | @danmcquillan@kolektiva.social (mastodon) |  https://www.linkedin.com/in/danmcquillan/ | https://www.instagram.com/resistingai/

Support the pod:

Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare

Readying to Rise 

Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus catch up with Seattle's most unexpected threat to billionaire brunch politics, Katie Wilson. She's a longtime organizer, transit rider, and Americano-splitter who went from dragging mayors in public comment to becoming the mayoral frontrunner herself. Her game plan? No hedge fund sugar daddies, no donor call lists, just a Google form, a ground game, and the radical idea that government should actually work for people. This one is for everyone who's screamed "Do something!" at their screen, only to realize the person who should do something… might be themselves. It's equal parts political strategy, Buddhist wisdom, and just enough hope to make every fauxgressive clutch their Chamber of Commerce tote bag in horror.

Mentioned in the episode:

Katie Wilson for Mayor | Voting info in King County | 

Support the pod:

Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile

Follow us on social & the web:

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Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus speak with The Bitchuation Room's Francesca Fiorentini — comedian, journalist, and professional thorn in the side of fascists everywhere. She breaks down why comedy is doing the job cable news is too scared to touch, why billionaires are basically rich toddlers with Wi-Fi, and how the left can stop doomscrolling and start building real power. From Palestine to potty‑training wins, Francesca shows us that sometimes the best way to fight back is to laugh in the face of the people trying to wreck your life… and then organize to take their power away.

Mentioned in the episode:

The Bitchuation Room | TICKETS: The Bitchuation Room live in Seattle 8/2/25 | AJ+ | Francesca on Abolish ICE | Bill Burr | If Books Could Kill - "A Bari Special Episode" | Lead pipe replacement in Flint, MI | Injectable preventative HIV medicine goes global | The Stranger

Follow us on Social:

Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

In this scorching episode of In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sweat it out—literally and metaphorically—as they sit down with disability rights advocate and policy powerhouse Matthew Cortland. With razor-sharp clarity and raw honesty, Matthew unpacks how Trump's so-called "big, beautiful" budget is actually a legislative wrecking ball aimed at Medicaid, Medicare, and the people who need them most. Matthew shares their own survival story of chronic illness, insurance denials, and systemic gaslighting—and how that fight led them to become one of the country's leading voices for healthcare justice. Part moral call to arms, part policy masterclass, this episode digs into why messaging matters, how personal stories can save lives, and what it means to organize like survival depends on it–because for millions, it absolutely does.

Mentioned in the episode:

Matthew Cortland | Data for Progress | Ady Barkan's organization, Be A Hero | Little Lobbyists | AAPD | The House of God by Samuel Shem | Frank Luntz | Don't Think of an Elephant!, by George Lakoff | Haroun and the Sea of Stories, by Salman Rushdie

Follow us on Social:

Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Nora and Marcus sit down with Gabriel Teodros, MC, poet, educator, organizer, and community time traveler, to talk about how we carry grief, make art, and stay human when the world's on fire (sometimes literally). Gabriel takes us from losing his home in a blaze to creating From the Ashes of Our Homes, his most personal album yet. And along the way, he unpacks what it means to do "love work" in a world built to erase us. We get into the big stuff: why silence in the face of genocide isn't just complicity, it's consent. Why joy isn't a luxury, it's resistance. And why solidarity isn't a social media post, but something you live, build, and dance to. This isn't just a convo about music. It's about using every beat, bar, and breath to fight back. Come for the rhythm, stay for the revolution.

Mentioned in the episode:

All About Love, bell hooks | Lovework | Khalil Gibran, The Prophet | Denizen Kane | Gabriel Teodros - From the Ashes of Our Homes | Gabriel Teodros - An Open Letter to My Cousins in Israel | Palestine Will LIve Forever Festival | Andrea Gibson | The Undocumented Socialist Alien who Keeps Saving America by Marcus Harrison Green in The Stranger | Tikun Olam

Follow us on Social:

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Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

What if everything you've been told about Palestine was only half the story, and the half that kept power comfy? This week on In the Meanwhile, Marcus and Nora talk with Palestinian American scholar Karam Dana, whose new book doesn't just unpack the crisis in Gaza—it shreds the whole suitcase of sanitized narratives we've been fed for decades. With the precision of a professor and the fire of someone who's lived it, Dana explains how Palestine sits at the heart of our most urgent questions: What does real solidarity look like? Who gets to speak freely? And why are Jewish voices standing with Palestinians so often erased?

It's heavy, yes but also clarifying, humanizing, and (somehow) hopeful. If you've ever found yourself wondering why talking about Palestine feels like touching a political third rail, this episode gives you the history, context, and moral compass to do it anyway.

Mentioned in the episode:

To Stand with Palestine by Karam Dana | Except for Palestine by Marc Lamont Hill and Richard Plitnick | The Message, by Ta Nehisi Coates | Tolerance is a Wasteland by Saree Makdisi | Good Muslim/Bad Muslim by Mahmood Mamdani

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Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

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Synopsis: This week on In the Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sit down with journalist Schuyler Mitchell to unpack how we went from "defund the police" to cities doubling down on militarized crackdowns: complete with riot gear, surveillance drones, and bipartisan gaslighting.

Drawing from Mitchell's Truthout exposé on the LAPD's long history of unchecked brutality, the conversation explores how both Trump and so-called "resistance" leaders like Gavin Newsom helped build today's authoritarian toolkit. They break down the blurred lines between ICE, local police, and Homeland Security, the failure of reforms, and why police budgets keep growing while communities are left to fend for themselves. It's a sharp and sobering conversation about what public safety really means, what abolition demands, and why hope lives in mutual aid, memory, and refusing to settle for brunch as a political strategy.

Mentioned in the episode:

• Yes, We mean Literally Abolish the Police

• Political Sidequest

• Schuyler Mitchell's article for Truth Out

• Mariame Kaba and Andrea Richie - No More Police

• How Los Angeles Police Broke Protocols and Injured Protesters 

Follow us on Social:

Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

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Dean Spade joins Nora and Marcus for a conversation about how our relationships show up in our activism, politics, and everyday life.

Mentioned in the episode:

Love in a F*cked Up World by Dean Spade | Love in a Fucked Up World Podcast | Mutual Aid by Dean Spade | Facing Collapse Together study group | Movement Memos: Bizarre and Dangerous Utopian Ideology Has Quietly Taken Hold of Tech World | Pipsqueak | Left Bank Books | Exarcheia | Inside Exarcheia on The Guardian (2019) | Demise of a neighborhood on Politico (2023) | New Jersey ICE escape | Lime Bike Barricade in Seattle

Follow us on Social:

Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Holiday breather this week, but no skipping the brain food. We're re-airing Marcus's live Town Hall Seattle conversation with historian Heather Cox Richardson, and somehow it's more relevant now than when it was recorded. 

Richardson (Democracy Awakening, Letters from an American) zooms out past the personality-of-the-week politics to ask the big, slightly terrifying questions: How do democracies actually fall apart? Why do bad myths keep working? And why have marginalized communities always been the ones dragging this country closer to its own promises?

From the Declaration of Independence to cable news chaos, from ballots to "reality-based communities," this is sharp, hopeful, and deeply clarifying. A reminder that history isn't over, and neither is the fight to make democracy real.

It's smart, funny, unsettling, and, against all odds, hopeful.

Mentioned in the episode: 

Town Hall Seattle | Letters From an American | Democracy Awakening: Notes on the State of America

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

In this episode, Nora and Marcus wade into the bizarre right-wing war on empathy—where Elon Musk, JD Vance, and others claim that caring about other people is a threat to civilization itself. But beyond the absurdity, they trace how empathy has been weaponized, misunderstood, and hollowed out—from Clinton-era politics to today's culture wars. Together, they ask: How should we show up and care in a time of polycrisis? s empathy even enough? Or do we need something deeper—like solidarity, discomfort, and the hard, daily work of being human with one another?

Mentioned in the episode:

Celebrity Imagine cringe video | Braver Angels | Pope Francis letter to Vance | Crowded Out | Toxic Empathy | Bishop Marian Budde | Guardian - Julia Carrie Wong | Tech Won't Save Us

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Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Sound Effect by freesound_community from Pixabay

Sound Effect by Universfield from Pixabay

Mentioned in the episode:

• So the No Kings March Happened. What Next? (Marcus Harrison Green, South Seattle Emerald)

• Erica Chenoweth

Follow us on Social:

https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast | https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social 

*Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron

In this episode Nora and Marcus dive headfirst into the dystopian text thread we're all living in: ICE raids in broad daylight, masked agents snatching people off the streets, media complicity, and the federal government going full "authoritarian starter pack." But rather than stew in our fear, today's guests offer pragmatic lessons about what we face and what can be done. Professor Angelina Godoy, a human rights scholar, breaks down how U.S. immigration enforcement is veering into the territory of international crimes, and Principal Jamie Cook describes how her small-town school community mobilized to free detained students and take a stand against ICE. It's a moving, unflinching conversation about civic bravery, the power of everyday people, and what it truly means to show up when the stakes are high and the fear is real. Listen in and get inspired. 

Mentioned in the episode:

The Guardian reported in April, "Despite the common refrain that the Trump 2.0 protests have been tepid, research from Harvard's Crowd Counting Consortium showed that there were twice as many street protests between 22 January of this year and March than in the same period in Trump's first term."

The Courage Project's civic bravery awards | Read more about Sackets Harbor and its response to ICE. | More on the Seattle family of 6 detained in horrific conditions for 24 days. | La Resistencia's work at the Northwest Detention Center

Connections for those who want to get involved: 

Community Defense Project | Organized Communities Against Deportation | Community patrolling by Union del Barrio in LA

Follow us on Social:

Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Five years after a global pandemic, historic protests, and social rupture, where are we now—and what have we forgotten? In this episode, Nora and Marcus Harrison Green dive into the lingering impacts of 2020, from fractured families to the backlash against empathy itself. With humor, honesty, and a touch of John Mayer fandom, they explore how we hold memory, process grief, and dare to vision something better in a nation that feels like a group project where half the class didn't show up. This is an episode about collective endurance, radical imagination, and finding joy, however strange or small, while still stuck in the "meanwhile." If you've ever wondered why things feel both over and still happening then this one's for you.

Mentioned in the episode:

Pew Poll on impacts of pandemic | Affective Polarization | Reply All - "The Least You Could Do" | Nudibranchs | 1M Experiments | Nancy Pelosi in her Kente Cloth 

Further reading / Listening: 

Marcus' piece on the Othello BLM march in 2020 |  Nora's research on mutual aid networks | Arundhati Roy @ Financial Times | You're Wrong About podcast on losing relatives to FoxNews and QAnon

Follow us on Social:

Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Welcome to the premiere of In the Meanwhile—a podcast for anyone trying to survive the slow-motion apocalypse without losing their soul (or their sense of humor). Professor Nora Kenworthy and journalist Marcus Harrison Green kick things off with a candid, funny, and heartfelt conversation about what it means to live through this messy in-between era—where the old world is collapsing, the new one isn't here yet, and the group chat is full of existential dread.

Born out of pandemic grief, political exhaustion, and the need to build something meaningful, this first episode explores what it means to live through a time of collapse without becoming a monster, how to hold onto your humanity when the headlines hit harder than your therapist's out-of-office reply, and why Bob Ross might be the spiritual leader we don't deserve but need right now.

This is part secular sermon, part group therapy, part dinner table rant with your smartest friends—the ones who still believe in hope, justice, and eight ounces of joy per episode. No hot takes, no empty platitudes—just real talk about how we hold onto our humanity, build community, and figure out what the hell we're doing in the meanwhile.

New episodes drop every Friday. Bring snacks. Bring questions. We're muddling through this together.

Mentioned in the episode:

Readying to Rise: Essays by Marcus Harrison Green | Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | The South Seattle Emerald | Hinton Publishing | Nora and Marcus at Town Hall Seattle | Martin Demant Frederiksen writing about pandemic mean/time | Antonio Gramsci on the time of monsters | Ad Astra | Bob Ross on  YouTube

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Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

The old world is collapsing. The new one hasn't arrived. And in between? There's grief, confusion, burnout—and the possibility for something better. 

Welcome to In The Meanwhile, a weekly podcast hosted by public health scholar Nora Kenworthy and journalist Marcus Harrison Green. 

No hot takes. No empty platitudes. No easy hope. Just real talk about how we hold onto our humanity, build something better—and maybe even laugh along the way.

Bring snacks. Bring questions. Bring critical thinking skills—they've been in a coma since 1997. We're figuring this out together.

This week, Nora and Marcus sit down with Renée Hopkins, CEO of the Alliance for Gun Responsibility, to talk about a grim reality we're supposed to pretend is normal: gun violence that's killing kids every day while politicians offer therapeutic platitudes and zero legislation. 

But here's the twist—Hopkins and her team have actually made progress on this issue. While the rest of the country cycles through outrage, helplessness, fear, and legislative paralysis, Washington state has been quietly passing comprehensive gun safety laws. Background checks, extreme risk protection orders, safe storage requirements—turns out you can regulate tools of mass death without the constitution bursting into flames. 

It's a conversation about how we misunderstand both where gun violence comes from and who it most impacts, and the policy wins that are saving the biggest killer of pregnant women and children across the US. Bring tissues. Bring rage. And maybe bring some faith that steady progress beats thoughts and prayers every time. 

Mentioned in the episode:

Vanity Fair: Susie Wiles, JD Vance, and the "Junkyard Dogs": The White House Chief of Staff on Trump's Second Term (Part 1 of 2) | Alliance for Gun Responsibility | Past Lives podcast | Let this Radicalize You

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise 

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Marcus and Nora wade through the Trump awards circus, billionaire media custody battles, and the administration's petty racism before calling on Dr. Ralina Joseph, author of Racial Exhaustion: How to Move Through Racism in the Wake of DEI. Together, they dig into what "racial exhaustion" really is, why the DEI backlash hits so hard, and why everyone wants to tap out of race conversations precisely when they matter most. Dr. Joseph breaks down how radical listening and radical speaking can keep us in the fight without losing our minds (or each other) and offers a roadmap for talking about race without combusting, retreating, or throwing our decorative holiday pillows through a window.

Mentioned in the episode: 

Racial Exhaustion | Radical Listening | Anjuli Brekke | HPV Vaccine | Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein | The Profoundly Feminist Origins of Frankenstein | Mary Shelley's Frankenstein

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Follow Dr. Ralina Joseph:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralina-joseph-b68535275/ 

Save the dates to see Dr. Joseph in Seattle:

Feb 23 @ Elliott Bay Books  | Feb 26 @Third Place Books Seward Park with Micki Flowers 

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Nora and Marcus trade Thanksgiving horror stories (ER visits, bad Netflix, and weaponized pie) before calling in anthropologist Anand Pandian to ask: why does America live like it's in a permanent bunker, emotionally and architecturally? Drawing from his new book, Something Between Us, they dig into gated communities, monster trucks, white nationalist rallies, COVID denial, and the meta-narratives that keep us terrified of each other instead of invested in each other. It's part political exorcism, part national reality check for anyone whose dinner gatherings with family feel like a mashup of QAnon, PragerU, and a Hallmark movie on ketamine, plus a surprisingly tender case for choosing interdependence over "I got mine, good luck out there."

Mentioned in the episode: 

Something Between Us: The Everyday Walls of American Life, and How to Take them Down | A Possible Anthropology: Methods for Uneasy Times | When Buckley met Baldwin | What I learned from an unlikely friendship with an anti-masker | Metaracism with Tricia Rose | 

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

It's a special thanksgiving mini-episode! Marcus and Nora sit down to talk about sustaining gratitude, forgiveness, and connection through hard times. Marcus reads a heartfelt tribute to his brother D'Marcus, who died unexpectedly in the fall of 2022. It's a powerful reminder of why showing people we love them and expressing our gratitude for them is necessary, especially in times of turmoil. In a season when family gatherings can test the patience of even the most even-tempered among us, it's the reminder we all need to lean into love. And, of course, Nora and Marcus close out the episode with an extra-large serving of 8 ounces of joy. 

Mentioned in the episode: 

It's never too late to tell a family member you love them. Until it is. | Rainier Valley Food Bank | A tribute to an oracle, Alice Wong | Crip the vote | Crips for eSims for Gaza | Disability Visibility Project | Year of the Tiger

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week Nora and Marcus start where all great late-stage-capitalism horror stories begin: Trump's "golden age of affordability," $10 lattes, and a Starbucks bear cup that looks like it escaped from Dollar Tree on work release. From there, they dive into the Epstein files, congressional clownery, and the ongoing revelation that the powerful are exactly as gross as we always suspected.

Then historian Peniel Joseph shows up to draw from his new book Freedom Season. He walks us through why 1963 was a hinge year for civil rights, how backlash is baked into progress, and what today's fights over voter suppression, book bans, and basic human dignity owe to that era's coalitions and courage. Nora and Marcus then close with a tender closing reflection on grief, family, and remembering our way toward a better future.

Mentioned in the episode: 

It's never too late to tell a family member you love them. Until it is. | Nora's grandfather's NYT coverage of March on Washington 

Books by Peniel E. Joseph:

Freedom Season: How 1963 Transformed America's Civil Rights Revolution | The Sword and the Shield: The Revolutionary Lives of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. | The Third Reconstruction: America's Struggle for Racial Justice in the Twenty-First Century | Stokely: A Life | Dark Days, Bright Nights From Black Power to Barack Obama

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

In our 25th episode, Marcus and Nora do what any self-respecting pair of exhausted optimists would do: celebrate by looking back at all the chaos we somehow survived together.

They revisit the best, wildest, and most unexpectedly therapeutic moments from In the Meanwhile: the mutual-aid revelations, the metanarrative nerd-outs, the Gaza truth-telling, the working-class rage, the billionaire clownery, and the profound relief of finding out we're not the only ones screaming into the void.

There's also: a pop quiz no one studied for, a democracy pep talk from Mama Green (queen), a brief interlude dragging Senate Democrats (deserved), and proof that they've technically out-podcasted Barack Obama. Plus, their trademark Eight Ounces of Joy, future dream guests, and a reminder that community, humor, and righteous indignation are the only things getting any of us through this timeline.

Mentioned in the episode: 

Democrats and the end of the shutdown | Katie Wilson | #11: Katie Wilson | Seattle & King County voter turnout | #3: Civic Bravery (ICE Detentions) | #5: Dean Spade | #16: Tricia Rose | #17: Douglas Rushkoff | #8: Gabriel Teodros | #13: Dr. Daudi Abe | #21: Byron Sigcho Lopez | #10: Francesca Fiorentini | Doing the Reading | ICE Signal chat data leak | Podchaser | Guest Rant: Now is the Time to Hope, and Vote 

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus do what every emotionally stable person does in a collapsing empire: eat dessert first and deal with the vegetables later. They speed-run the Trump administration's latest clown car pileup: featuring the extremely cursed timeline where even the NRA and Senate Republicans are like, "Hey man… maybe chill?" — before zooming out to a much bigger target on the authoritarian wishlist: universities.

Enter constitutional law scholar Brian Soucek, author of The Opinionated University, who joins for a brainy, spicy, occasionally laugh-so-you-don't-scream convo about what academic freedom actually means (hint: it's not "tenured guy yells vibes"). They dig into why  calls for "neutrality" are usually code for "please stop challenging power," how outsourcing expertise hollows out education, and why turning campuses into beige corporate training centers would be a tragedy for democracy. We're reminded that universities — messy, loud, imperfect as hell — are still some of the last places where people practice the radical act of disagreeing in public and (sometimes) learning something.

Mentioned in the episode: 

Federal judge actually tossing out a lawsuit  | Hannah Fried episode | Pediatrician who fought to help Alex Pretti |  at least 8 other people killed by ICE  | Howard Zinn | "Committee A" on Academic Freedom and Tenure | Committee on Academic Freedom | UC's National Center for Free Speech and Civic Engagement |  Gaza Med School Commencement Speech | SSE: Living and Loving Under the Carceral State | Arts at King St Station Art

More from Brian Soucek:

The Opinionated University: Academic Freedom, Diversity, and the Myth of Neutrality in American Higher Education | Brian Soucek at Town Hall Seattle Feb 3

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus open with global chaos: tantrum diplomacy, Greenland confusion, and peace-as-a-timeshare, before turning to something far more urgent and close to home: the accelerating cruelty of ICE. Joined by Angelina Godoy, founding director of the UW Center for Human Rights, they unpack how immigration enforcement has slid toward secret-police tactics, how Washington state data is being quietly weaponized, and why "immigrant rights are human rights" isn't just a slogan, it's a legal and political battleground. It's dark, funny, furious, and grounding all at once: a group therapy session for a moment that demands clarity, courage, and boundaries.

Mentioned in the episode: 

UW Center for Human Rights | report on immigration enforcement and driver information | Immigration officers assert sweeping power to enter homes without a judge's warrant, memo says | Economist/YouGov Poll | ICE Can Now Spy on Every Phone in Your Neighborhood | Fury as Amazon Ring Cameras Are Hooked Up to ICE System | 2026 Oscar Nominations |  Sinners | Ryan Coogler | Fruitvale Station

Read Prof. Godoy's Books:

Popular Injustice | Of Medicines and Markets

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus stare into the news-cycle roulette wheel, where every slot reads "are you kidding me?" and land on America's default coping mechanism: militarism. Press freedom under attack. ICE acting like it's Fallujah. The President threatening war like it's a vibes-based policy choice. Totally normal stuff. 

They're joined by Michael McPhearson, a U.S. Army veteran and head of Veterans for Peace, who calmly explains how forever wars abroad get rebranded and redeployed at home. From "enemy combatant" logic to Congress abandoning its job, McPhearson connects the dots and makes the apparently radical case that being anti-war is actually pro-veteran. Incisive, furious, and darkly funny. Strap in.

Mentioned in the episode: 

Veterans for Peace | Iraq Sanctions | Abolition of the Army in Costa Rica | Mark Fisher: Capitalist Realism | Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of MLK Jr. 

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

We're back with a question that sounds obvious until you say it out loud: if you're picking a North Star… why is "more prisons" anywhere on the map? 

This week, Nora and Marcus wade through the usual dystopian fog and land in L.A., where a blockbuster social media trial is screaming in 4K: "Yes. The harm. Is the business model." Not a glitch. Silicon Valley said, "Move fast and break things," and we're like, "Cool, you broke our kids' brains."

Then enter Emily Galvin Almanza (Partners for Justice) and her new book The Price of Mercy, which is part courtroom drama, part myth-busting masterclass, part polite society intervention.  Emily brings lived experience, legal receipts, and the kind of clarity that makes you sit up straighter. She walks us through how people get criminalized before they're even arrested,  how poverty itself becomes probable cause. How bail is basically a "pay-to-sleep-in-your-own-bed" subscription service. (Premium tier: freedom. Ads included.) And how plea deals are engineered so aggressively that "choice" becomes less a right and more a hostage negotiation with your own future.

Mentioned in the episode: 

See Emily Galvin Almanza at Town Hall Seattle Saturday Feb 21 | Follow Emily: @galvinalmanza | The Price of Mercy: Unfair Trials, a Violent System, and a Public Defender's Search for Justice in America | Partners for Justice | Dads on Duty | Marcus on Jesse Jackson in The Stranger | 

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus start with civic sunshine(yes, the Seattle Seahawks are Super Bowl champions), and end in the deep waters of power, protest, and historical memory.

From Ernest Jones' "spirit-forward" parade speech to a congressional hearing that felt like defiant incompetence colliding with diabolical intent, they unpack the Bondi–Epstein fallout, elite impunity, space lasers over El Paso (it was a balloon), charting the increasingly surreal cartography of America's institutional collapse.

They then sit down with Jelani Cobb, dean of Columbia Journalism School and author of Three or More Is a Riot, to trace the throughline from Trayvon Martin to George Floyd, from Ferguson to January 6, and from protest to backlash. Cobb breaks down how Black collective action gets reframed as threat, why property damage often outranks the value of Black life in public debate, and what it means to teach journalism as press freedoms erode.

It's a conversation about history as barometer, protest as democracy, and why, as Cobb reminds us, no fascist gets to drive us out of a country our ancestors built.

Read Jelani Cobb's Books:

Three or More is a Riot | To the Break of Dawn | The Substance of Hope

Mentioned in the episode: 

Trayvon Martin and the Parameters of Hope | Quitting America | SPL Reading List |

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Nora and Marcus are back in Seattle after Marcus's whirlwind reporting trip to Minneapolis, and what he saw there stayed with him. From vigils and memorial sites honoring Alex Pretti and Renee Good, to organizers building "community protection" in real time (warming stations, escorts, carpools, and mutual aid), Marcus reflects on how grief travels across time and distance, and how solidarity can, too.

They talk about what feels different right now: a shift from performative outrage to everyday people asking, "What are you doing?" and then actually doing it. The conversation also zooms out to the bigger picture: state violence, the fragility of billionaire leadership, the stakes for local journalism, and the hard truth that you can't "microwave" a community when the crisis hits.

Plus: a little righteous pettiness about the Melania documentary flop, and Nora's eight ounces of joy, which features Ian McKellen bringing Shakespeare to late-night TV as a fierce, immigrant-rights mic drop.

Mentioned in the episode: 

Common Power | Charles Douglas III | Seattle Indivisible | George Floyd Square | Pastor Sergio Amezcua | Philly's ICE out law | New Mexico ban on detention centers | Minnesota Star Tribune | Melania movie box office failure | Ian McKellan on Late Show with Stephen Colbert

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week,  Nora and Marcus sit down with author and activist Ijeoma Oluo for a searching conversation about movement work, harm, belonging, and the radical choice to stay. Together, they explore the personal cost of speaking truth, the wounds movements can inflict on their own, and what it means to build the world we long for now—not after revolution, but through the way we live, love, and struggle every day. It's a deeply honest conversation about survival, accountability, joy, and choosing community even when it hurts.

Mentioned in the episode: 

If You Decide To Stay |  Be a Revolution | Gabriel Teodros | Ahamefule J. Oluo |  Washington State Book Awards

More from Ijeoma Oluo:

Behind the Book | So You Want to Talk About Race | Mediocre: The Dangerous Legacy of White Male America: 

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

It's been another "37-day week" in America, and In The Meanwhile is doing what it does best: refusing to let the chaos set the agenda.

Nora and Marcus open on the latest Washington-fueled disaster (a brand-new war with Iran, because apparently weekends are illegal now), then pivot to the scandal the powerful would love you to forget: the Epstein files, and one name still floating above the consequences like a philanthropic forcefield.

Enter Tim Schwab, investigative journalist and author of The Bill Gates Problem, to talk about Gates, Epstein, and the dangerous alchemy of extreme wealth + "good billionaire" mythology. Schwab breaks down why Gates' "I didn't know" era doesn't pass the smell test, how philanthropy can function as reputation-laundering and influence-buying, and why the so-called "Bill Chill" keeps Seattle institutions and media hesitant to speak plainly, even when the story is screaming.

Mentioned in the episode: 

Is Bill Gates in the Epstein files? Probably |  The Epstein files should end Bill Gates's philanthropic career | Erasing Gates Seattle's Favorite Philanthropist Faces Campus Reality Check from UW Student | NYT Opinion: This Summer, Students From Hundreds of Colleges Will Heed One Urgent Call | Half of Americans want to Abolist ICE

More from Tim Schwab:

Tim Schwab on Substack | On X | on BlueSky | The Bill Gates Problem | on LinkedIn

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Marcus and Nora do what America refuses to do: pay attention. They skim the State of the Union so you don't have to, drag the idea of replacing epidemiology with astrology, and ask a very basic question: should our Surgeon General believe in vaccines or just vibes? Then it gets real. While Black History Month goes conspicuously unmentioned in a country built on Black labor and brilliance, Marcus shares a speech that reframes Black history not as a Pinterest board of heroes, but as a survival manual. From his mother witnessing Rosa Parks' arrest at nine years old to vigils in Minneapolis and Rainier Beach, the throughline is unmistakable: inheritance isn't just trauma. It's tools. And we're gonna need them.

Mentioned in the episode: 

Full service at Westside UU | Crowded Out wins inaugural Procedure Award (!!)

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. 

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.