This podcast series, produced by Byta/ byta.com, is based on our monthly online, live and free event of the same name. This series of interviews is designed to deliver the knowledge to enable tomorrow’s artists, their teams and industry leaders to better manoeuvre their way through the music ecosystem. Each episode features an in-depth one-on-one conversation with someone with extensive experience with the business of music.
#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation is hosted by Byta’s founder, Marc Brown, whose deep music business background and digital audio knowledge have helped him deliver unique insights to audiences from Tallinn to Toronto. Marc is a former label owner, manager and radio plugger.
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Today’s guest on #HowWeListen Live: In Conversation is Alex Brees CEO and Founder of un:hurd music, a music tech company that uses proprietary technology to help artists reach their most valuable fans via data-led marketing campaigns.
Throughout this conversation, Alex offers valuable insights into the evolving landscape of the music industry, the importance of data in crafting effective marketing strategies, and the challenges and opportunities for artists in the digital age. He emphasizes the need for artists to be adaptable, understand their audience deeply, and leverage data not just for short-term gains like playlist placements but for building a sustainable and engaged fan base.
The conversation begins with Alex detailing his educational path, studying psychology at university, which unexpectedly paved the way to a career in sales and marketing. Despite not having a formal education in sales, Alex highlights the crucial role that selling skills play in entrepreneurial success, a realization he came to understand during his university days. After university, he moved to London to tap into more significant opportunities in tech, driven by a fascination with data's power to influence marketing strategies as inspired by books like “Dataclysm: Who We Are (When We Think No One's Looking)”
Transition to Tech and Data Analysis:
In London, Alex transitioned from basic sales roles to more complex positions where he could analyze data to drive marketing decisions. Then his tenure at a Global Investment firm, Carlyle, where he worked as a trading analyst. Here, Alex's role was pivotal in converting consumer behaviour data into actionable marketing insights, helping the company optimize its advertising spend and grow its market presence rapidly.
In the Music Industry:
Parallel to his tech career, Alex's love for music led him to organize music events, particularly in the UK rap scene, which was then burgeoning. His efforts not only provided a platform for emerging artists but also challenged the negative stereotypes often associated with the genre, thus opening more venues to these performers. This side venture eventually steered his career fully into the music industry.
Universal Music:
Alex's passion for music and data culminated in a role at Universal Music as a global analyst. Here, he was responsible for using data to optimize marketing campaigns for top-tier artists like Katy Perry and Lady Gaga. His work involved a mix of quantitative analysis—looking at streaming and social media data—and qualitative research, such as market surveys to better understand fan desires and expectations.
un:hurd:
Drawing from his many experiences, Alex founded un:hurd, a platform designed to support underrepresented artists by using data-driven strategies to boost their careers. The platform helps artists understand their audience through detailed analysis and effective marketing strategies, mirroring the analytical approaches he honed in his previous roles but focusing on empowering smaller artists and indie labels.
un:hurd music is powerful, seamless music promotion at your fingertips. It offers you the ability to build effective promotional campaigns across all of your platforms that matter. Their technology creates a tailored list of marketing suggestions based on the user’s data and in just a few clicks, one can pitch to playlists, reach new fans on social media and launch a fan hub. Since launching, un:hurd has worked with over 65,000 artists from 129 countries, has raised over £2mil from some of the worlds most influential music investors, been featured as one of Music Ally’s start-ups to watch and has featured on BBC Dragons Den.
I think PR today is more of a content coordinator or content facilitator because content right now is so fragmented across so many different mediums. Our job is really to generate awareness for what our clients are doing.
Today’s guest on #HowWeListen Live: In Conversation is Nancy Lu a seasoned New York-based publicist with over a decade of experience, she describes her journey from healthcare consulting and tech startups to establishing her own PR firm, Fancy PR.
Nancy discusses her initial reluctance to pursue a career in the arts due to the instability perceived by her immigrant family background and societal expectations. However, her passion for music and involvement in the music scene in Washington D.C., where she made significant connections and wrote about music for pleasure, eventually led her to shift her career path toward her true passion.
Nancy explains the complexities of modern public relations, which has transcended traditional media to include various content platforms, making the role of a publicist more about content coordination and opportunity creation. She emphasizes the importance of understanding and personally connecting with artists to effectively communicate their stories and project visions. This approach not only enhances campaign strategies but also aligns with her belief that resonating with an artist's work can significantly improve a publicist's efficacy.
Throughout the conversation, Nancy discusses the strategic aspects of PR, such as managing expectations, defining the scope of work with clients, and the importance of strategic planning in campaign success. She touches on the challenges faced by independent artists and the role of publicists in amplifying their existing momentum rather than building it from scratch. Nancy also addresses the critical need for more inclusivity in the industry, praising initiatives like incubator programs aimed at underserved communities.
During their conversation Marc and Nancy also explore how the digital age has changed the expectations and methodologies in PR, requiring publicists to be more creative and integrated in their approach to media and content. They discuss the importance of data and analytics in shaping PR strategies and the continuous need for adaptation to the ever-evolving media landscape.
Episode Credits:
Signing, Releasing & Developing Music from Africa to the World
Episode 23
Wednesday, May 10, 2023 • Duration 56:08
"I'm reaching out to people because of their work ethic and because of their consistency. I believe in their journey and I feel like it's only a matter of time before something huge happens"
Our guest on today’s episode is Obinna Agwu. Newly appointed A&R Executive at Horus Music Nigeria, Obinna Agwu is also an artiste manager and music business consultant and podcaster with years of experience working in the Nigerian music industry. He is experienced in working closely with a variety of industry partners and managing internal/external relationships. As mentioned he also hosts a music industry-based podcast known as The Listening Sessions Podcast.
Prior to joining Horus Music, Obinna worked at Boomplay as their Artiste Relations Manager, executing over twenty major releases and securing top talents like ILLBliss, Laycon, Hotyce and Ugochee for Boomplay’s Hip-Hop initiative, “Pass The Mic”. Obinna also oversaw planning and rollout for El Dee The Don’s ‘Undeniable’ whilst working at Trybe Records, and while at the Chocolate City record label (generally regarded as one of the most successful indigenous urban record labels in Africa) he oversaw the Plantation Boiz’s Plan B album, And The Bass is Queen by Lindsey Abudei, M.I Abaga’s debut album ‘Talk About It’, and many other projects.
Marc and Obinna talk about how artists can be better prepared to help move their music and careers forward. They also talk about the history of the music industry in Nigeria, the Afrobeats explosion and why there is more to Nigeria than Afrobeats.
"When I first hear a song, it doesn't matter if it was released today, one year ago or 10 years ago. It's new to me, the moment I first hear it, and that's the same for your fans."
Our guest on today’s episode is Mike Warner, founder of Work Hard Playlist Hard – The DIY playlist guide for Artists and Curators. Mike is also the Head of Editorial Marketing Partnerships for North America at Believe, the global music distributor. As the go-to authority at the forefront of the digital music world, for all things streaming, we get into it with Mike. Find out how he got started as a DJ in Australia and then eventually made his way to California. How unemployment can lead to some great ideas, opportunities and even a book. Let's find out about the path that led to Mike eventually ending up at Believe USA for his day job, yes he loves a day job. Throughout this episode, Marc brings a bucket of questions to the table. Mike gets more specific about some excellent strategies, timelines and how to approach building a team. He also explains a few unique ways artists can get noticed by the many Digital Service Providers (DSP) out there.
The biggest lessons offered up:
Don’t give up and don’t ignore any of the streaming services.
Artists should always be talking about their work no matter when the music was released.
A song is “new” the moment people hear it, even if it is 1 or 10 years old.
“I didn't know anything about the music industry. I didn't know that there were publicists trying to push stuff. I was clueless. So getting emails at the start was really cool, especially when it was from artists that I recognized.”
Our guest on today’s episode is Jason Grishkoff the founder of SubmitHub. With just a hop, skip and a jump, Jason moved from the world of high finance to working at tech giant Google. Then a side hustle and hobby – the Indie Shuffle Blog (it’s music discovery powered by real people.), led to founding SubmitHub. The goal was to efficiently and transparently connect artists with curators, the “right” people, in order to get music heard more efficiently.
One of the key stages of getting your music heard and promoted outside of your own network is accessing the world’s music curators, but who are they? How can artists and creators access these curators and influencers themselves? This is what SubmitHub is an expert in. The platform was built with musicians and curators in mind. You upload your music, then use pay-for credits to submit it to trusted and user-scored curators (there is a free song-submission feature as well). They listen and then respond directly from within the SubmitHub platform.
Byta’s Marc Brown has always tried to impart as much wisdom as possible to anyone wanting to operate within the music ecosystem. DIY is your best first step, finding out how everything works, by trying and often failing for the first time. There are no shortcuts. This was a great conversation between two people trying to do similar things in different ways.
"A fan a day" is basically anything that you’re doing to grow. Everything that you do should be cognisant of building an audience...
This episode features a panel discussion moderated by Marc Brown, Founder & CEO, Byta / byta.com
Our guests are: Mira Silvers (Head of Music, FORT Agency), Nikisha Bailey (GM, Nvak Collective Executive Board, The Recording Academy Global Co-Chair, Diversity & Inclusion, Women In Music) & Phil Loutsis (VP Community, AWAL)
Live music, festivals, and conferences. All of a sudden people were back in the same rooms listening to and talking about music again. 2022 was the year music finally came back from COVID. Some of the same old challenges that have always been there did not go away. This episode comes up with a few ideas to move a music career forward.
Here is a little more information on our panelists:
Mira Silvers
Originally from Atlanta, Mira Silvers is a young music executive & polymath, who serves as the General Manager/Co-Founder of VICEVERSA, an emerging social-based record label and artist incubation platform. Additionally, she is an artist manager and the Head of Music at FORT, an independent female-led and Brown-owned agency focusing on a highly curated roster of artists for live development.
Phil Loutsis
Phil focuses his energies on helping indie artists build their careers. Part of his role at AWAL includes curating content to help creators and managers make the best use of their resources. A big part of building and sustaining those music careers – harnessing community with artists, creators and their teams. He enables artists and their teams to better tell their stories.
Nikisha Bailey
Forbes “Next 1000 list 2021” honoree, Nikisha Bailey is a community-driven entrepreneur, entertainment executive, and philanthropist with a lifelong commitment to music. Professionally, she is the General Manager for the Nvak Collective – a next-generation record label & artist advocacy collective that embraces web3 to drive change for creators and intellectual property. She also serves as Vice President for The Recording Academy’s New York Chapter and is an Ambassador for the Academy’s Black Music Collective (BMC).
Episode Credits:
Fairness in Future: Compensation & Advocacy for Artists
Episode 18
Wednesday, December 14, 2022 • Duration 58:08
"DO IT TOGETHER- You learn by doing, you navigate the systems and the complicated processes, by jumping right into it with curiosity and humility, learn as you go, and then share what you're learning."
Our guest on today’s episode is Kevin Erickson, Director of The Future of Music Coalition (FMC). Kevin has contributed opinion pieces to outlets as disparate as The Nation and Pitchfork, volunteers with Positive Force DC, and remains active as a musician and record producer, operating Swim-Two-Birds recording studio in DC, alongside husband Hugh McElroy. Before joining FMC’s team in 2012, he directed the All Ages Movement Project, a national non-profit network of all-ages music venues and youth music programs. The Future of Music Coalition is a Washington D.C.-based nonprofit organization supporting a musical ecosystem where artists flourish and are compensated fairly and transparently for their work.
The FMC’s work is rooted in the real-world experiences and ambitions of working musicians, whose perspectives are often overlooked in policy debates. The FMC works with musicians, composers and industry stakeholders to identify solutions to shared challenges. They promote strategies, policies, technologies and educational initiatives that always put artists first while recognizing the role music fans play in shaping the future.
This episode does not just talk policy and lobbying, but real work tips and tricks on helping musicians connect, develop community and more than anything else pay attention to what the world at large and larger corporations are imposing on creative musicians.
Transforming Audio Culture: Elevating the Art of Music Discovery
Episode 17
Monday, November 21, 2022 • Duration 58:01
"Radio will never die…"
"You have to define yourself and create your own brand. I normally don’t like that ethos that you have to create a brand, but you can definitely do it in a way that stays true to yourself."
Our guest on today’s episode is Saidah Blount, Executive Producer at SONOS Radio, she is also their Primary Impact Storyteller. What does that job title mean exactly? She lets us know. Storytelling is at the heart of what Byta believes is one of the most important elements of promoting one’s self: always control your narrative. So Marc and Saidah get into it. Saidah followed a very unique path from the midwest to New York, one that included music journalism, stopping off at NPR for a few years and eventually landing at SONOS. Her north star was always music and trying to figure out how she could somehow incorporate that into her work life. She realized early on that working in the music industry proper was not for her, so she had to figure out another way, to do it on her own terms. She is a big fan of radio, having grown up in Kansas City one of the first big radio markets in the USA, plus both her parents were big music fans. Marc has a long history in Radio as well, so they discuss the differences between curated playlists (by real people VS AI), and old-school radio, and the future of “radio”. How can musicians make contact with the people at SONOS to have their music heard and played? Spoiler alert- persistence seems to be the answer. It is a great conversation that goes down some surprising and very insightful paths and Shazam.
Building Your Streaming Audience with Kevin Breuner (CD Baby)
Episode 16
Tuesday, October 18, 2022 • Duration 01:06:00
"The number one thing to never, ever do, would be to set a release date before your music is done."
Our guest on today’s episode is Kevin Breuner, Senior VP of Engagement and Education at CD Baby. Kevin’s job at CD Baby is all about making sure musicians are as prepared as possible when planning to release their music into the world. Marc and Kevin talk about how Kevin went from being a Grammy-nominated musician to working with CD Baby. Along the way, Kevin also offers up all kinds of great advice on being ready when you release your next album or single.
Previously VP of Marketing at CD Baby, Kevin’s new role reinforces what CD Baby is all about: making sure musicians are as prepared as possible when planning to release their music into the world. At CD Baby, Kevin created the DIY Musician brand, which has become the cornerstone of CD Baby’s mission statement.
Music Publishing & Sync: Where to Start w/ Miller Williams, Senior VP Creative, Kobalt Music Publishing
Episode 15
Monday, September 19, 2022 • Duration 01:07:21
"The better the song, the more likely it is to get synced and the more people will listen to it."
This episode’s guest is Miller Williams, Senior VP Creative at Kobalt Music Publishing. Miller’s role at Kobalt covers A&R, songwriter services, and catalogue acquisitions. He also works with their international agents and sub-publishers to exploit their songs and help their writers with co-write opportunities. Signings include Becky Hill, Milow, Jef Martens, Houston Comma publishing, Carla Monroe, AJ Tracy, Martin Sjolie, and Alex Clare. Williams has also held similar A&R and/or creative positions at Sony ATV UK, BMG Records UK, PWL Records UK, and Terrace Music (Nashville). In this episode, Miller talks about going from zero to hero, getting synchs and how things work when you are writing and pitching songs to K-Pop and J-Pop artists. They also get into how things are working in Africa these days and of course how Miller made it into the music ecosystem to start with.
Kobalt is one of the most successful independent companies for music publishing, label services and rights management. In his role as Senior Vice President of Creative there, Miller works across A&R, collaborations and music marketing.
"Yeah! Usually what I find is that if you scratch beneath the surface, the artists who have become successful have done a ton of work behind the scenes that no one has known about. I don’t think there’s any shortcut to success. Lil Nas X did become famous quite quickly through TikTok, but he’s proven that he can write hit after hit which is another important thing - longevity. That’s a real skill to be able to keep going and reinvent yourself."
Episode Credits:
The conversation wraps up with Nancy advocating for a realistic and informed approach to PR, where understanding the artist's current standing and potential trajectory is crucial for effective publicity. She stresses that while AI may assist in streamlining processes, the creative and human aspects of public relations remain irreplaceable, underscoring the artistry behind crafting impactful public relations campaigns.
Fancy PR
The Fancy PR Story – Founded in 2013, Fancy PR is a boutique full-service public relations agency committed to storytelling. From crafting artists’ narratives to placing high-impact stories and driving cultural conversations, they love what they do. As an AAPI woman-owned Business, we’re moved by diversity, equity and inclusion in the arts and believe in the power of fans and building community.
Even if you stumble on this podcast deep into 2023, or further down the road, the ideas, strategies and inspired conversation that take place in this episode are well worth a listen, are still relevant. Sustaining a career in music has never been easy but the landscape seems to be changing at an increased pace... or is it. Some things remain the same- like hard work and treating your music and yourself like a business, other things- streaming, TikTok offer up new opportunities and challenges.
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