Explore every episode of the podcast Holy Shift

• Our shared love for Portland,

• Steve’s relationship to church now that he’s not in ministry,

• His long, drawn out journey of leaving ministry and the pain that followed,

• How easy it is use ministry to justify your own ego,

• and the toll ministry takes on your family.

In this episode we sat down with Emily Arnold (former ministry leader at Saddleback Church, Community Manager at the Speaker Lab) to talk about:

• Her journey into ministry at Saddleback Church and all of the compounding factors that led her to leave,

• The sense of belonging and identity that having a role in church create,

• Becoming honest about the human parts of us we ignore while in ministry,

• And Emily’s journey of finding her new career in and her full authentic self leaving ministry. 

In this episode we sat down with David Royall, a pastor-turned-product-marketer at Subsplash to talk about:

• The toll that a growth-at-all-costs ministries take not only on pastors, but on members and volunteers,

• How sometimes it takes our spouses to help us see the dysfunction we’re living with and used to, 

• And a bit about what his life and career looks like after ministry. 

In this episode we sat town with Brian Recker, an ex-pastor and author of the forthcoming book Hell Bent to talk about

• ​his journey into and out of ministry,
• ​the pressure pastors face to not change their minds,
• ​and the ways that disappointment can become our greatest teacher.

For our 20th episode we wanted to pause and do an Ask Me Anything episode.

Collin sits down to address a few questions from Shifties, questions like:

- How do I find purpose after leaving ministry?

- How do I make peace with all the time I lost in ministry?

- How do I talk to people who don't understand why I'm leaving?

If you've listened to Holy Shift so far, thank you. It's a gift to have you as a part of this community.

What if it's okay to live a totally ordinary life?

In this episode of Holy Shift we sat down with Andy Squyres to talk about:

• his journey from worship pastor to writer and songwriter,
• evangelicalism's limited vocabulary for pain and suffering,
• how to break the cycle of trying to live an extraordinary life,
• and Andy's take on not becoming cynical after leaving ministry.

What do you do when a leader's public persona doesn't match who they are behind the scenes?

In this episode we sat down with Chuck DeGroat.

Chuck is a therapist, a professor at Western Seminary in Holland MI, and the author of 5 books (Including When Narcissism Comes to Church, and most recently Healing What’s Within: 

And this episode was a deep dive on all things narcissistic church leadership.

In this episode Chuck:

• gave us an operating definition of narcissism,

• shared some of the signs of a narcissistic leader,

• clarified the difference between narcissistic leadership and a narcissistic system,

• and shared a bit about how you heal and move forward after having an experience with narcissistic leadership in church. 

In this episode we sat down with Joshua Harris.

Beyond authoring I Kissed Dating Goodbye, Josh as a pastor and ministry leader for years, so we sat down and chatted about:

- Josh's transition out of ministry,

- What it's like to change your mind,

- and having compassion of former versions of yourself.

This episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ⁠⁠ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift⁠⁠

This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.

What do you do when you disagree with church leadership?

In this episode we sat down with Joseph Peterson (Founder of Fohrm Studio) to talk through the complicated choice between speaking up and staying quiet.

If you want to reach out to Joseph for creative work you can at fohrm. studio

If you want to follow what Joseph is doing at Commoners, you can do that at commoners.co

This episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ⁠⁠ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift⁠⁠

This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.

What do you do when you feel like it's time to leave but everyone is telling you that you just need to pray more?

In this episode we sit down with Candace Hagen to talk about:

- her journey from ministry to real estate

- the cognitive dissonance of leaving ministry

- and Candace’s advice for anyone wanting to jump into a new career after ministry

This episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ⁠ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift⁠

This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.

From freezing temperatures and fire codes, to angry emails and fractured relationship, working at a church on Christmas eve is... something.

In this episode we sat down with 4 ex-pastors to hear their stories of working in a church on Christmas Eve and a bit of what Christmas Eve looks like now that they don't work in ministry.

This episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ⁠ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift⁠

This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.

What happens when you leave your job in ministry with no plan?

In this episode we sat down with Charlie Sells (Founder of Clarity Over Everything) to chat about:

• the experience of working in a Christian Company after leaving ministry,
• interview panic attacks,
• and Charlie's journey into copywriting.

This episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift

This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.

What if ministry is keeping you from exploring parts of your self?

In this episode Collin sat down with Ben Crandall, the owner of  Banner Coffee Co in Arroyo Grande, California.

This episode was a deep dive on entrepreneurship. We covered:

• Ben’s journey from ministry to opening a coffee shop, 

• the sense of internal drive and wrestling that led him to make the jump,

• the highs and lows of entrepreneurship,

• and Ben’s decision to stay a part of his church after no longer working there. 

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This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.

What happens when a pastor starts making cocktail content in his free time?

In this episode we sat down with Jordan Hughes (@highproofpreacher on Instagram) to chat through:

• Jordan's journey from preacher to high proof preacher
• the pros and cons of monetizing a hobby
• and listening to your inner voice

This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.

What if ministry is making your hair fall out?

In this episode we sat down with Kaitlynn Wagner (former pastor at Christ Church of the Valley) to talk through:

• The anxiety that pushed her out of ministry

• Moving to a new city after leaving ministry

• and her path to becoming a therapist. 

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This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.

What does pastoring have to do with pop punk and product marketing?

In this episode Collin sat down with Anthony Pierri (FletchPMM, Good Hangs) to chat through:

- Anthony's journey into (and out of) ministry,

- tech product marketing,

- being an Enneagram 3,

- and the unexpected ministry of Good Hangs (@goodhangsband)

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This episode was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The songs featured in this episode are "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA and "Shoot Our Way Out" by Good Hangs

In this episode Collin sits down with his friend Andres Rodriguez (former pastor at the Village Church turned real estate appraiser) to talk about:

- performance and power dynamics in ministry,

- in groups and out groups,

- and finding community after ministry

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This episode was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song featured in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA

Grief takes time.

In this episode we sat down with Matthias Barker (Therapist and Co-Founder of The Trauma Institute) to talk about:

• Matthias' experience feeling born and bred to be a pastor,
• the homesickness he felt leaving ministry,
• his path to becoming a therapist,
• and healing from grief along the way.

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This episode was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song featured in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA

What if leaving ministry meant you could be your true self?

In this episode, Collin sits down with Cass Curry (Account Executive at LinkedIn) to talk about:

• In-N-Out Burger

• Cass’ journey from Willow Creek to LinkedIn

• ambition

• and showing up as your true, whole self.

  
  

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  This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

  
  

  The song featured in the episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA

What do you do when your loyalty isn't to your job anymore?

In this episode Collin sits down with Conner Smith (Account Executive at Limble) to talk about:

• Conner’s journey from SDR to AE in 6 months
• Finding and living your “why” after ministry
• And dreaming small

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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song featured in the episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA

Who am I if I'm not a pastor?

In this episode Collin sits down with his friend, mentor, and former boss Josh Saenz (Founder of Compel You).

Collin and Josh dive into:

• why (exactly) leaving ministry feels like a death,
• the role family played in their transitions out of ministry,
• and the pain of not knowing who you are outside of ministry.

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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song featured in the episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA

So you left ministry, but what kind of job should you go after next?

In this Episode of Holy Shift, Collin sits down with the kind of ex-pastor career transitions – Todd Linder. 

Collin and Todd talk about:

• Todd’s complicated, 2 year journey out of ministry,

• How Todd landed his first role,

• Why saying “I just want to help people” won’t actually help you, 

• And how to get clear on your career after ministry.

Check out Todd's special offer for Shifties here:

https://go.ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift

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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song featured in the episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA

Ex-ministry existential crisis. 🚨 

In the second episode of Holy Shift, Collin sat down with his friend and fellow Portland ex-Pastor Brandon Perkins (Sales at Responsive.io).

Collin and Brandon talk about:

- Brandon's journey leaving ministry, 

- the existential crisis that followed, 

- how Brandon found his career in tech sales, 

- and how leaving ministry changed them.

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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song featured in the episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA

In the first Episode of Holy Shift, Collin sits down with his friend (and new coworker) Trevor Cragg (Manager of Customer Success at GoFundMe).

Collin and Trevor chat about:

- Trevor's Transition out of ministry

- How he landed his first role at GoFundMe

- How he's climbed the career ladder since being there,

- and Trevor's take on the worst piece of career advice ever.

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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song featured in the episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA

A 3 minute teaser from Episode 1 of Holy Shift.

Curious what Holy Shift is going to be all about? Take a few minutes to listen to this 3 minute teaser from Episode 1.

Collin dives into:

- what Holy Shift is

- why Holy Shift exists

- and what you can expect from every episode.

Episode 1 will air in it's entirety on June 26, 2024.

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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.

The song featured in the episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA