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In this episode, Dr. Lamar Hardwick and Dr. Tareesha Lee discuss the intersection of disability and faith, prompted by the movie 'The Deliverance' on Netflix. They highlight the harmful belief in some faith communities that disabilities are caused by demonic possession or a lack of faith. They emphasize the importance of referring families to professionals and medical resources, rather than solely relying on prayer. They also address the issue of spiritual abuse when disabilities are treated as solely a faith issue, neglecting the need for medical and therapeutic support. The conversation explores the topic of healing and the narrow definition of healing within the church. It highlights the spiritual abuse that can occur when individuals with disabilities are told they need to be healed and that their disability is a result of demonic possession. The conversation emphasizes the importance of leaving room for God's will and recognizing that healing can come in various forms, including emotional, mental, and psychological healing. It also challenges the idea that the church is the sole source of healing and encourages pastors and leaders to refer individuals to other professionals and resources when necessary. The conversation explores the parallel between deliverance and disabilities, emphasizing the need to recognize, accept, and celebrate differences. It challenges the notion that people with disabilities need to be healed or delivered, highlighting the importance of seeing the glory of God within them and believing in their ability to live a productive and joy-filled life. The conversation also addresses the unfair expectations placed on individuals with disabilities and the need to hold them to the same spiritual standard as everyone else. It concludes by advocating for a shift in perspective towards disability as a mere difference, rather than a negative or positive attribute.
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Shoe of the Day
02:50 Discussion on the Movie 'The Deliverance'
05:21 The Intersection of Disability and Faith
09:24 The Harmful Belief of Demonic Possession
13:08 The Real-Life Stories of Spiritual Abuse
17:25 The Impact on Families and the Need for Support
21:27 The Importance of Referring to Professionals
25:10 Addressing Spiritual Abuse in Churches
27:28 Expanding the Definition of Healing
36:31 Leaving Room for God's Will
40:59 Challenging the Church's Monopoly on Healing
46:58 The Spiritual Abuse of a Narrow Definition of Healing
49:21 Recognizing the Value of Imperfection
53:14 The Struggle and Specialness of Disabilities
The belief that disabilities are caused by demonic possession or a lack of faith is harmful and can lead to spiritual abuse.
Faith communities should refer families to professionals and medical resources for support and guidance.
Treating disabilities solely as a faith issue neglects the need for medical and therapeutic interventions.
Disabilities should not be infantilized or stigmatized within faith communities. The narrow definition of healing within the church can lead to spiritual abuse and the marginalization of individuals with disabilities.
It is important to leave room for God's will and recognize that healing can come in various forms, including emotional, mental, and psychological healing.
The church should not be the sole source of healing and should be willing to refer individuals to other professionals and resources when necessary.
Educating pastors and leaders about disabilities and available resources can help prevent unintended harm and promote a more inclusive and supportive environment. Recognize, accept, and celebrate differences instead of dividing based on disabilities
Believe in the ability of individuals with disabilities to live a productive and joy-filled life
Do not hold individuals with disabilities to a higher spiritual standard
Shift the perspective towards disability as a mere difference, not a negative or positive attribute.
Titles
The Intersection of Disability and Faith
Recognizing and Combating Spiritual Abuse Leaving Room for God's Will in the Healing Process
Challenging the Narrow Definition of Healing in the Church Shifting Perspectives: Disability as a Mere Difference
Believing in the Ability to Live a Productive and Joy-Filled Life
Sound Bites
"It's the presence of a demon. This is a lack of faith. This is something you have to pray through. This is something that has to be cast out."
"We never talk about that. We never talk about that. What we do instead is, first of all, we infantize disability anyway."
"Making someone who is disabled or atypical, making what their challenges is as a family solely a faith issue also becomes spiritual abuse."
"If you knew God the way I knew God and you trusted God the way I trusted God, you wouldn't be afraid, because I'm not worried."
"Unintended harm usually is the result of uneducated people doing things that they're not educated to do."
"The church is not equipped to give you all the support and tools you need in certain areas."
"The things that make me struggle are also the things that make me special."
"Even if I'm not healed, I'm still His. And even though I might not be healed, God still believes."
"There's still a harvest that can come out of your life despite all of these challenges that are intertwined into the life."
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hardleetypical.substack.com
HardLee Typical Podcast
Monday, September 2, 2024 • Duration 44:33
Summary
In this episode, the co-hosts, Dr. Lamar Hardwick and Dr. Teresa Lee, introduce themselves and share their backgrounds. Dr. Lee talks about growing up in Kentucky, attending Fisk University and Colgate Rochester Crozier Divinity School, and her initial desire to become a neonatologist. However, she realized that working with sick babies and distraught parents was not her calling and eventually pursued a dual degree in religion, philosophy, and psychology. Dr. Hardwick expresses his surprise at Dr. Lee's specific career goal as a child and highlights the challenges of being in a church environment that often assumes a calling means becoming a pastor. In this conversation, Terisha Lee and Lamar discuss Terisha's background in practical theology and her passion for disability inclusion in the church and society. Terisha shares her journey of obtaining a PhD in practical theology and how she focused her research on African-American women who came of age during the civil rights movement. They also talk about their favorite movies, books, and music artists.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Greeting
01:03 Getting to Know the Co-Hosts
03:23 Dr. Lee's Journey from Kentucky to Fisk University
08:48 Changing Career Goals: From Neonatology to Psychology
13:11 Navigating the Expectations of the Church
19:39 Terisha Lee's Journey in Practical Theology and Disability Inclusion
22:25 Exploring Resiliency in African-American Women of the Civil Rights Movement
26:11 Passion for Ministry and Disability Inclusion
32:20 Favorite Movies: Fifth Element and Coming to America
35:15 Favorite Books: Thomas Takes Charge and The Giver
37:30 Favorite Music Artists: John P. Key and Outkast
Keywords
introduction, background, co-hosts, childhood, education, career goals, church environment, Terisha Lee, Lamar, practical theology, disability inclusion, African-American women, civil rights movement, favorite movies, favorite books, favorite music artists.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
HardLee Typcial Podcast
Friday, August 9, 2024 • Duration 18:14
Summary
Lamar and Terisha discuss their decision to start a new podcast together, highlighting the unique perspectives they bring to the conversation. They emphasize the importance of discussing the intersection of race, faith, and disabilities, which is often overlooked in mainstream media. The podcast aims to provide insights and empower the community by addressing these topics. They also mention the additional content available on their website and Substack, including show notes, exclusive information, and blooper reels. The official launch of the podcast is planned for Labor Day weekend.
The podcast focuses on the intersection of race, faith, and disabilities, providing unique insights and empowering the community.
Lamar and Terisha bring different perspectives as a pastor and a practical theologian/parent educator, respectively.
Additional content, including show notes and exclusive information, will be available on their website and Substack.
The official launch of the podcast is planned for Labor Day weekend.
Titles
Insights and Empowerment for the Community
Behind the Scenes: Blooper Reels and Exclusive Content
Sound Bites
"The podcast focuses on the intersection of race, faith, and disabilities."
"The unique intersection of being a minority with a disability and having a love for God."
"Additional exclusive information on the Substack."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Decision to Start a New Podcast
06:07 Exploring the Intersection of Race, Faith, and Disabilities
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
Takeaways
Dr. Lee grew up in Kentucky and attended Fisk University and Colgate Rochester Crozier Divinity School
She initially wanted to become a neonatologist but realized it wasn't her calling
Dr. Hardwick highlights the challenges of being in a church environment that assumes a calling means becoming a pastor Terisha Lee has a PhD in practical theology and focuses on disability inclusion in the church and society.
Terisha's research centered around African-American women who came of age during the civil rights movement and their resiliency.
Both Terisha and Lamar have a passion for ministry that includes people with disabilities and their families.
Terisha's favorite movie is Fifth Element, while Lamar's favorite movie is Coming to America.
Terisha's favorite books are Thomas Takes Charge and The Giver, which sparked her love for reading.
Terisha's favorite music artist is John P. Key, while Lamar's favorite music group is Outkast.
Titles
Navigating the Expectations of the Church
Dr. Lee's Journey from Kentucky to Fisk University Passion for Ministry and Disability Inclusion
Favorite Music Artists: John P. Key and Outkast.
Sound Bites
"Today is a special treat because I'm going to interview my co-host and you get to hear a little bit about her."
"I found a dollar on the... I'm going here. Now here's the thing. Years, once I actually got there, I realized that where I found it was right beside where the ATM is. So somebody probably dropped it."
"Hey, it got me there, it got me there."
"In awe? Oh, neonatologist?"
"Help, help us help the audience understand then, cause you have a PhD in practical theology. that correct?"
12:26 Behind the Scenes: Blooper Reels and Exclusive Content
14:39 Mark Your Calendars: Official Launch on Labor Day Weekend
Thanks for reading HardLee’s Substack! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for reading HardLee’s Substack. This post is public so feel free to share it.
Show Transcript
Terisha Lee (00:03.427)
So Lamar, tell us now that we have been introduced to this hardly typical team, why did you decide to start a new podcast? Because you previously had one. So what made you decide to start a new
Lamar (00:16.418)
Yeah. Good question. I had a podcast, I think I probably made it to like, I don't know, three seasons. But it was just me and some of it was, I did like, like a journalism kind of style where I played clips and then connected the dots on certain things. And then there are other times where I just talked about my
previous book, disability in the church. So it was kind of, it was kind of all over the place. but I decided to do a new podcast cause I didn't want to do one by myself. I wanted to partner with someone who, I knew had the same passion who was doing the work. and someone that I could team up with to make it a little bit better. You know, I stopped, my previous podcast, which was called the autism pastor podcast.
because at the time I was, you know, doing cancer treatment, a lot of people know that, and I just couldn't keep up the schedule, but I'm, glad to be back and I'm glad to be able to partner with you. I think we're going to do some pretty amazing things on this podcast.
Terisha Lee (01:30.393)
Absolutely. So let's talk about that. When we initially had that first conversation and you even mentioned a podcast, I was elated because I thought from your books, from even your social media presence, that you were a voice that needed to be heard. You had great insight. You had a wealth of knowledge. And in my season of working in faith and disabilities, you were a voice that I needed to hear. So I was ready to go like, Hey, you want to do a podcast? Let's do it. You want to do a blog? Let's do
I was ready. You want to fly kites in the park? Let's go. That was my mindset. So what were you thinking when you approached, but when you were approached by this energetic young lady with your books, I had, think I had two copies of your racism and the church book. and then I had the disabilities. I had both your books ready to be signed when we had that first conversation. So what were your thoughts?
Lamar (02:00.877)
Yeah.
Lamar (02:19.446)
Mm
Lamar (02:24.524)
Yeah.
Lamar (02:28.494)
Well, you know what, I remember, it was probably 2021. I went back in my Instagram and kind of scrolled through the messages. And I remember first getting a message from you and even an email back in 2021 about the book. And we had like a short conversation about the intersection of race and faith and disability. And I think at the time,
You just express, guess I can say like a passion for our community, for the African -American community and doing the work that needs to be done in the area of faith and disabilities with our churches and other organizations. And I thought, well, this is somebody who, kind of gets it. I didn't know you cause it was 2021, but I'm like, I get, I get emails all the time. Some I'm able to respond to, but I really was impressed that that
Like a passion of yours. And I think I even said that I'm working on a new book at the time. This is 2021 that was going to address that. And that book ended up being how ableism fuels racism. So, Hey, I was excited. We kind of just followed each other from there for the next couple of years. watched, I watched your presence increase. watched what you're doing. And then I learned that you were, trained as a parent educator. And I thought, aha,
Terisha Lee (03:31.829)
huh. You did.
Lamar (03:54.594)
the perfect parent because as a, as someone who's autistic, but also a pastor, one of the things that I didn't have was the perspective of a parent. have three children, my wife and I, but none of them have disabilities. So I thought this is a perfect opportunity. And then I got to tell you, Teresa, when I came to your workshop, cause we first met in, in person in May.
Terisha Lee (04:22.873)
Three years later.
Lamar (04:24.15)
Yeah. Three years later. Wow. Wow. Yeah. And we met in Orlando and yeah, you did come with your books. and I signed them and then we had a conversation about working together on some other things. Yeah. I kind of noticed, you know what? I get excited to meet people, right? Cause I get messages from all over the world and it had been three years. So was like, I finally met you in person. but I went to your workshop.
Terisha Lee (04:27.373)
Yeah.
Terisha Lee (04:36.537)
I was excited about that. Yeah.
Lamar (04:53.506)
When you did a workshop at Key Ministries, Disability in the Church Conference in Orlando. I think it was about, correct me if I'm wrong, it was about helping people after they get an initial diagnosis to know what to do. And yeah, I was super impressed. after that, I was like, okay, we got to do something together. I didn't know like, is it going to be a podcast, a book? Maybe the next conference we can do
Terisha Lee (05:10.988)
It sure was.
Lamar (05:21.868)
workshop together. I didn't know what it was, but I was just like, all right, it's been three years. We finally met in person. I'm ready to, to partner with you. So I was excited to say, you know what, let's do, I think I did it on Instagram, right? Where I said, I said, I commented in, I think complimented you on something. And then I said, have you ever thought about a podcast? And you're like, no, I thought about it, but I've never done it. I'm like, let's do one together.
Terisha Lee (05:46.37)
Yes. That was the initial conversation. Yep. And then it was like, Hey, let's go. So tell me this in this hardly typical partnership and this hardly typical podcast, what should people expect from us that they're not getting in other podcasts?
Lamar (06:06.926)
Wow, that's a good question. think, and you know, and then I want to hear your perspective as well. I think what people can expect to get from us is, you know, what the tagline says and our logo, you know, the intersections and insights, right? Because there's not a lot out there. I mean, and I don't want to say that there's nobody doing the work that we're doing as far as,
educating and empowering our community, but there's not a lot out there as far as media, right? It's hard to get access to, you know, a group or a person who is talking about the intersection of faith and race and disabilities. And it's a huge, it's a huge conversation that needs to be had in our communities and minority communities. And so I think, I don't think, I know that's one thing that people will be able to get from us
They're not necessarily getting anywhere else and I'm excited about it. But what, what do you think? What are your thoughts about what people are going to get from this podcast?
Terisha Lee (07:12.931)
think the thing that really drew me to your books was the conversation that wasn't popular. that was people were talking about disabilities. Absolutely. People were talking about faith. Absolutely. But what people weren't talking about was the unique intersection of being a minority with a disability and having a love for God that created a different type of experience. And I don't think anybody was leaving room for that. And I just love the fact
In your books, you did. So in our conversations privately, we've had, they've been great because it's a different insight. So I'm ready to bring those conversations to the podcast so they can hear the wealth of knowledge that you have. And I think when we talk about it together from your perspective as a pastor and my perspective as a parent educator, or a practical theologian, I think that it really shines a light on an area that parents are looking for, that people with disabilities are looking for.
that pastors and leaders are looking for, but no one's maybe really had those deep conversations with them, those intersections, because it's not, some days it may be the intersection of your race and faith, but then the next day it's your disability. And you know, and I don't think people acknowledge that, that every day it's kind of a different, silical thing that kind of rotates and you don't know which one you may have to engage depending on how the day goes. So I think they'll definitely get that insight with us.
Lamar (08:37.122)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I definitely agree. And I want to say now, don't sell yourself short because you keep talking about my books and my insight. But one of reasons why I was excited to work with you is I like, wow, she has PhD, she's a practical theologian. I actually saw a clip of you sharing, I guess it was at a conference or something. And you're talking about why churches need a practical theologian. And I started looking at other clips and I'm like, okay, this
This is it. This is the team right here. Like we are Batman and Robin, you know, you, Hey, pick whichever one you want to be. Or, you know, like we can flip flop. Like you said, every day is a different day, right? Every podcast, it might be different, but, yeah, I just want the listeners to know, like, it's not just me. You have a wealth of knowledge and I'm excited to, to team up with you so that we
do this work and hopefully make a significant impact in this area. So yeah, I'm excited. I'm like, let's, let's go. were saying, let's go. I was saying in my mind, I gotta get her on my team. hope she says yes.
Terisha Lee (09:47.833)
Listen, so I'm like, I don't mind being Robin. Robin is underrated. Batman did great things with Robin. So I'm like, hey, let's do this. I'm, I'm ready again. Let's go fly kites. We can talk about the intersections of race, faith and disabilities while we're doing that. I was on board. I have no problem learning and gleaning and continuing this because this journey has definitely been
Lamar (09:54.402)
True. True.
Lamar (10:13.175)
Wuh.
Terisha Lee (10:17.091)
where you constantly have to learn and grow. So I'm excited to do it with you.
Lamar (10:19.618)
Yeah. Now, can I say this before you move on? I was nervous asking you to like do a podcast. I'm like, she don't really know me. Like I signed a couple of books. She might just be like, you know, don't, I don't know you like that. I just like your books. But so I was a little nervous and I said, yo, let's do a podcast together. And then you inbox me. I'm
Terisha Lee (10:40.62)
Well
Lamar (10:47.66)
I was so anxious, like, is she gonna say yes? Is she gonna say, you know, kick rocks? was like.
Terisha Lee (10:54.249)
Yeah, definitely not. Definitely not. Not the Dr. Lamar Hardwick. I would never.
Lamar (10:57.283)
So, yeah, so, so I, I want the listeners to know that I am elated and excited that you said yes. And I'm looking forward to it, man. It's going to be
Terisha Lee (11:11.673)
I think it's gonna be a dope partnership. So now we definitely have to let them know where they can find us. Where will Hardly Typical Podcasts be?
Lamar (11:20.12)
So we are going to be on all the platforms, Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts from. Just make sure that you look out for it and you should be able to find it in every podcast platform that's out there. So be on the lookout for
Terisha Lee (11:41.781)
Okay. And we also have some extra goodies for people too, so they can take this journey with us. We have ways that they can obtain exclusive information via social media, website. We definitely want them to look for us in other platforms too.
Lamar (11:50.04)
Mm -hmm.
Lamar (11:53.677)
Yep.
Lamar (11:57.068)
Yep. So be on the lookout for the website. We're, we're putting that together. And then also be on the lookout for our sub stack, which will have information, of course, with every podcast, we'll have show notes, links to all the things that we talk about if we reference books or videos. but be on the lookout for our sub stack, cause there'll be some additional information. Hey, you may get some writing from me or from Dr. Lee on that sub stack. so.
Make sure that when that drops, we'll let you know soon when that will drop that you can be able to get that additional exclusive information by signing up for a Substack. And you know, the great thing about Substack is, that it will also be a place where it will host the podcast. So you can kind of a one -stop shop. look out for that when it drops, it'll be dropping soon coming up in the fall.
Terisha Lee (12:52.109)
Definitely, make sure you subscribe, make sure you tell a friend, don't take this journey by yourself. Get you a conversation partner, invite your friend, your family, make sure you all are really tuned in, because Hardly Typical has some great information we wanna share. But we also wanna let you know too, that we are having some fun too. don't, Dr. Hardwick doesn't know I'm gonna tell you all about this, but he's got some blooper reels too. We have been having some fun with recording as well.
Lamar (13:17.144)
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Terisha Lee (13:21.89)
And while I'm like, do not share that with people. I think you all can appreciate the hard work behind the scenes that we're doing. Let's just say I had my first experience with a teleprompter and yeah. So you might see that.
Lamar (13:31.116)
Yeah.
Lamar (13:35.726)
You did okay. You did okay. You did okay. It was, it was fun. Let's say that, but yeah, there were definitely some outtakes. Some of them I kept, some of them, yeah. Well, no, you did good using the teleprompter, but hey, that's all a part of the magic, right? Of trying to put together a podcast and...
Terisha Lee (13:49.197)
but it was rough.
Lamar (14:03.714)
do something exciting for our listeners and this.
Terisha Lee (14:09.559)
Yeah, y 'all don't believe him. He's gassing me right now. It was, it was brutal. It was brutal. So if you follow us, if you make sure you're on social media, you will get access to those bloopers. You'll get access to exclusive content, but only if you find us on social media and find us on Substack, you'll get that information too. So while you're subscribing, you're also following us and you're getting a wealth of knowledge too. So last but not least, as we wrap up just this quick introduction, when can the people expect the official launch?
Lamar (14:13.944)
Hahaha!
Lamar (14:39.896)
So the official launch will be around Labor Day weekend. so be on the lookout for that. Cause we know that people are doing that thing for the summer. They're going on vacation. You know, my family and I, we're getting ready to get this last vacation in too. And so we want to let people enjoy the rest of this summer. Cause a lot of people start to really get in the mindset of a fall right after Labor Day, that last long weekend. So we want to launch.
right around that time so that when you're settling into the fall, one of the things you can do is subscribe and make sure that Harley Typical is one of your regular podcasts as you kind of settle into your routine for the fall. So be on the lookout for that. When it drops, there'll be some little short clips that we'll share along the way so you can kind of see what we're talking about, but definitely be on the lookout for that around Labor Day weekend.
Terisha Lee (15:37.695)
Absolutely, absolutely. So mark your calendars now so you can be a part of this dynamic duo. You can be our third co -host with your questions, your comments, your concerns. We're looking forward to taking this journey with you, this hardly typical journey. And thanks for tuning in.
