Explore every episode of the podcast Hard to Market
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Mastering Networking: No Anxiety, Just Connections!
04 Mar 2026
00:26:40
Dive into the networking know-how with Dalene Allen, your 'Connection Concierge,' as she unveils the secrets to building warm, genuine relationships that blossom into business opportunities. Bid farewell to awkward handshakes and monotonous elevator pitches as Dalene redefines networking with a touch of humanity.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
03:06 - First of all, I believe looking to make a connection with another human being is if you like each other and trust each other. Business can happen organically. So if we take it from a different point of view, let me learn as much as I can about you, and how could I help you? It's a law of reciprocity. If I can help you, that's where the trust starts. And by looking at a relationship as opposed to transactional, you're gonna love your life a whole lot more. And I truly believe business will grow. You know, what you send out until the lives of others can come back tenfold.
11:42 - If you're a person that needs to network, but the very thought of it creates anxiety, get the focus off you and pretend every person in that room's got a sign around their neck that says, make me feel important. So here, here's a couple of tips. Get to the networking early, get to know the organizers. Guess what the organizer's trying to do? They're trying to introduce you to people. Then that's where I would go in, and I would say, help. I can help you set up, I can help do anything, but I'm paranoid about networking. Could you help me meet some people? And if they're the organizers and they don't do that, well, you're never going back to that networking event again, are you?
01:23 - If we look at it from curiosity point of view, that person in front of you learn as much as you can about them as a human being. Because if we've ever had to deal with a crappy client, if you got to know them as a human being first, we could likely save ourselves a lot of heartache or headache. And so I had a real fear when I started my first business of even handing out a business card. So I did everything wrong. And what I realized was I was willing because my goals and dreams were big enough to find a way that worked for me. Most people that fear never goes away.
08:25 - I was the worst networker in the whole wide world. I would be like a car dealer in Las Vegas and just throw cards at people. I'd collect them, and then I'd get home and say, why did I do that? To gain a little bit more of a strategic plan. But here's the other part, even reaching out on a social media platform that can be intimidating. But if we look at it from the other point, you know, in another way, they wouldn't have the website if they didn't wanna do business.
19:10 - Listening like a sponge, not a brick. Most people will ask a question, listen until they can get their word in. That's not what it's all about. And so one of the sweetest things you can say is if somebody starts talking, you say it now that was interesting. Tell me more. And that person suddenly it's like doors open, shoulders go down. Because if you're really sincere, just that little thing they've opened up, not a lot, but it's like the segue into
Dive into the challenges of marketing with Loralyn Mears from STEERus! Uncover the art of balance as we explore her journey from burnout to brilliance, helping businesses shine online, snag grants, and gear up mid-level managers for the top. Tune in for her transformative tales and practical advice that could steer your business to success!
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
03:50 - Brian: That's normally the way it works. Right? It's never a direct line to success. It's always much more of a search algorithm, a much more of a spiral pattern.
Loralyn: Yes. Downward spiral being a lot of it, but yes. And then now I'm spiraling up. I've got it. 'cause it's really the messaging is now really more clear. It's helping people get seen and get paid. And what does that mean? Well, if you're a mid-level manager that everybody's overlooking or you're not getting along with your staff, well, you need to get seen, right? And do all of these things differently so that you get promoted or keep your job.
17:14 - It's so much easier to fix other people's problems rather than your own always plus, right? The cobbler's children has no shoes, right? Because we're always fixing everybody else's thing. So like, my website sucks, but everybody else's that I do looks really good. And that's a whole other thing.
15:11 - The cost of change is often not measured in dollars. It's often measured in organizational fatigue. It's measured in all sorts of the emotional cognitive expense work that isn't easy. It's the same as going to the gym in a lot of these kind of environments where it's like you have to do the, you know, you have to lift the weights, nobody can do it for you. And so you have folks that come in in the small business space, and very often they wanna buy their way out of a problem. And it's like, no, you exercised your way into this problem, you're gonna need to exercise your way out of it. And that creates a very, very difficult dynamic.
17:29 - I think it's the state of overwhelm. I think you talked about change, that there is a cost. Mentally, people aren't ready. They know that they need to make change, but it's too much because they've got to change everything on every axis. Right? It's like that movie, first it was only a little bit, and then everything all at once. And it really does become overwhelming, and it's all-consuming, and people just don't have, not even the, the financial capital, which of course is a constraint. You look at the number of small business loans, and two-thirds of small businesses are subsisting on loans. But you look at just the mental energy, it's too much.
23:29 - The third thing I would say on go to market is don't get so hung up on the perfection. It's gotta be 99.99% perfect. I really like this. No, I like this image a little better. Let's craft this. Hmm, that post isn't quite right. Just do it. I really believe Wayne Gretzky greatest hockey player of all time, although Alex mentioned, is like taken over. But that's another story, and good for Ovechkin, but Wayne Gretzky said famously, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. And so that's what I say, don't wait till you're 99.99, 80% is good enough. Get it going. See if it works, test it, try it, refine it.
Business Growth & Social Strategy: A Chat with CEO Beth Trejo
17 Apr 2024
00:22:14
Dive into a dynamic chat with Beth Trejo, CEO of Chatterkick, as she unveils the transformative journey from boardrooms to the digital world. Discover marketing insights, evolving business strategies, and the social spark igniting company growth.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
Beth unveils Chatterkick's origin story.
Powerful SEO tips hidden in plain sight.
Social media's role in business hiring.
Venturing from local to national circuits
Strategy shift: from high-volume to consultative sales.
19:16 - Number one is be curious. Always like want to learn more. I think that's really important. Another is to be kind. You never know what someone's going through on the other end of that conversation, whether it's a real conversation or it's a social media conversation. And I think the third is to make sure that you respond, call them back. When they call you, call them back, whatever that looks like. I think too many businesses just ignore their digital phones and they're real people on the other end of this. And I think if you really wanna make business work on social media, you have to form those real human connections.
11:27 - I think right now just our field in marketing as a whole is shifting. And I think it will continue. It has, it's always evolved and we're still gonna need people to help tell businesses stories. Like, I don't think that there's going to be a fall or demise of marketing, but I think the way that we're doing it on behalf of businesses is changing at a very, very fast pace. And social media is still a big category of how individuals, especially individuals under the age of 40, want to interact with brands, but businesses are not embracing it at the pace that they really, that their customers want.
15:08 - There is all of this other stuff that comes up. And if you don't create that presence for your business, someone else will. Your employees will create it on Glassdoor, your customers will be posting about you on TikTok, you're gonna get out there. But it's just a matter of like, who do you want to tell that story? And sometimes businesses make the strategic choice not to be in that spot, and that's their call.
15:43 - What drives me crazy is when businesses are using preconceived notions or assumptions about their customers without actually going through that journey themselves. Like, have you tried to apply to your own jobs? Have you tried to go through your website and be a customer? Can you find your phone number? and it's those type of things that I think are the big biggest misses that a lot of businesses are just blindsided with.
09:51 - You need to make sure you know how to hire the right type of salesperson. In the beginning, we hired high-volume salespeople. And I always call, that's like the hunting dog mindset, right? Just like, go get 'em, go get 'em, go get 'em. And those individuals were great, but because they like need that constant drip of dopamine from a sale, they would sell things that sometimes we didn't even offer, or they would sell things incorrectly because they just wanted the sale. And so we kind of got into a spot where we had to say, hold up. We need someone who can really consul, consultative sell this service. We need them to really understand enough about digital marketing and the tools that we're using. And really they need to want the sale not just for the money, but because they know it's going to be a long-term partnership.
The Importance of Onboarding: Creating Content that People Can Understand
08 Sep 2023
00:04:16
In this episode, we explore the importance of making your podcast accessible and creating content that people can understand. By using language and approaches that are inclusive, you can bring your listeners along for the ride and ensure that they can fully enjoy and engage with your conversations. While it may be challenging to simplify complex topics, taking the time to create on-ramps and provide explanations will make your content more effective and enjoyable for a wider audience.
Key Points • Making your language and approach accessible is essential in podcasting and conversations. • Providing clues and tools helps listeners pick up on the direction of the conversation. • Onboarding your audience by using less jargon and explaining unfamiliar terms improves accessibility. • Balancing the need for speed with making content consumable for a broader audience is a challenge. • News outlets often use explanations to ensure understanding of unfamiliar words or concepts. • Creating on-ramps for listeners to join the conversation enhances their enjoyment and engagement. • Speaking in a simple and understandable manner requires effort but is worthwhile.
Best Quotes 00:33 - 00:36 • "You want to bring everyone in the conversation along for the ride."
02:31 - 02:35 • "You won't regret it. Nobody's gonna think you're pandering or talking down."
02:36 - 02:44 • "It's much harder actually to speak in a simple way so that everyone can understand than it is to use all of those tools and jargon."
The Power of Podcasting: Unlocking Business Intelligence in the Digital Age
07 Sep 2023
00:04:24
In the digital age, podcasting has replaced water cooler conversations as a valuable tool for collecting business intelligence. By hosting a podcast, you can connect with industry peers, gain inside information, and build a strategic network. In this episode, discover the steps to get started and understand how podcasting can give you a competitive edge in the marketplace.
Key Points • Podcasting is a powerful way to collect business intelligence in an open and accessible manner. • Hosting a podcast allows you to connect with potential clients, expand your network, and gain valuable insights. • Start by having conversations and recording them using platforms like Google Meet or Zoom. • Utilize AI-based tools like Otter or Krisp to transcribe and record important information from your meetings. • You don't need fancy intros or music for your podcast – focus on fostering meaningful discussions. • Podcasting gives you a competitive advantage by providing an opportunity to learn 10 times more than non-podcasting peers. • Embrace podcasting as a growth process to become an authority in your industry and gain a broader perspective.
Best Quotes
01:00 - 01:08 • "After you get the hang of it, it is such a valuable and useful tool on so many fronts for your business."
01:38 - 01:41 • "Start having conversations and don't be afraid to push the record button."
02:13 - N/A • "Make sure you get an audio recording from those [conversations]. You can start the process of creating a podcast."
02:24 - 02:34 • "What you really do need is a commitment to continue to have those conversations and to do so in a way that encourages folks to participate."
From Solo Shows to Radio Dramas Uncovering Unique Podcast Formats
06 Sep 2023
00:08:11
Discover the various podcast formats and their pros and cons in this episode. Learn about the popularity of interview style podcasts, the challenges of panel style shows, the benefits of solo podcasts, and even the world of radio dramas and live reporting. Whether you're a beginner or a seasoned podcaster, there's a format for everyone.
Key Points • Interview style podcasts allow for access to guest networks and are easy to conduct. • Panel style shows require more coordination and effort but offer the benefit of multiple networks. • Solo podcasts are great for exploring and discovering your own content and knowledge. • Radio dramas require scriptwriting, talent, and production elements. • Live reporting podcasts offer a gritty, authentic feel but require time and preparation. • Each podcast format serves different purposes and targets various audiences. • Don't be afraid to start your podcast and evolve as you go along.
Best Quotes "An interview podcast is an awesome way to expand your network and share content with others."
"Solo podcasts are a great way to discover your own content and knowledge in new ways."
"Radio dramas are often used for employee training or to create a compelling company culture."
"Live reporting podcasts offer unique experiences and are expected to have challenging production quality."
"Field reporting podcasts require a lot of time and preparation but can result in engaging content."
"Just get started with your podcast and you'll figure out the best format along the way."
"Your podcast will evolve and transform over time, so don't be afraid to experiment."
Creating Rich and Valuable Content: The Role of Guest Comfort
06 Sep 2023
00:04:57
As a podcast host, it's crucial to set expectations and make guests feel comfortable to create a great show. Warmup meetings prior to recording help alleviate fears, discuss topics, and establish ground rules. Putting guests at ease enhances their willingness to share valuable and emotionally connected information, resulting in richer content and challenging conversations.
Key Points • Warmup meetings help set expectations and alleviate guest anxiety • Sharing that the recording can be edited puts guests more at ease • Comfortable guests are more likely to share difficult or emotionally connected information • Challenging guests can lead to richer and better show content • Valuable shows go beyond surface-level topics, providing unique and nuanced information • Ground rules set in advance help create a comfortable environment for guests • Guest comfort enhances the overall quality of podcast episodes
Best Quotes "Your mission is to start a conversation about setting expectations and alleviating guest fears." "A guest that's at ease is more likely to share difficult or emotionally connected information." "The shows that are the best quality are the ones that provide new and novel information." "Having comfortable guests allows for challenging conversations and better content." "Creating a great podcast involves making guests feel comfortable to share deeper content." "Ground rules in a meeting prior to recording are crucial for a successful podcast episode." "Ensuring guest comfort plays a significant role in the overall quality of the show."
Empathy in Content Creation: Building Resonance through SEO, Email Marketing, and Social Media
05 Sep 2023
00:34:46
In this episode, Edmund Zaloga from Responsify discusses their content creation and marketing journey. Responsify helps businesses bridge the gap between customer pains and solutions through engaging and informative content. The interview explores the importance of setting expectations and maintaining relationships with clients, different types of clients, and how their agency and software provide value and gamify the marketing and sales process. Listeners also learn about empathizing with the audience, creating resonating content, and the role of AI in generating impactful titles.
Introducing Edmund Zaloga, the Founder and CEO of Responsify, a trailblazing growth content marketing strategy and production service based in Brooklyn, New York. With over a decade of expertise, Edmund specializes in crafting organic content that attracts, converts, and closes new customers. He's also contributed his creative wisdom as a Part-Time Professor at Pratt Institute and lent his strategic prowess to global brands like HubSpot and BBMG. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
Content plays a crucial role in connecting businesses with their target audience.
Setting clear expectations and being honest with clients helps maintain healthy and productive relationships.
Clients who see the agency as a partner are easier and more enjoyable to work with.
The agency is exploring options to expand their services, potentially targeting startups who need assistance with content creation.
Understand your audience's pain points and use SEO to find relevant keywords.
Leverage social media, particularly LinkedIn, to strengthen connections and interactions.
Seek support from a marketing partner who can help relieve the burden and provide expertise.
02:22 - “You know, ultimately we're human beings. We like people and companies have websites. They're all, we all have something to give to the world. The websites are, you know, is meant to represent that and to ultimately, you know, help connect people. And what I found was after interviewing a lot of great CEOs that I had just hounded and, and tried to really get a hold of, they just, they sort of told me the same thing, which is like, Hey, we have a website, you know, we've got this really innovative product or service, you know, we're having a hard time getting people to even find us.”
18:22 - “How do we work with somebody who's going to help us make it, you know, do this better, faster, and cheaper than we could do on our own? And that's the sort of golden is they say it's a utopia. I say, you know, it's somewhere in between. It might not be, you know, it for every case, you know, people could definitely try to do things cheaper than us, but, you know, there's always that compromise the quality, and then it's going to take longer. You're going to have to deal with the headaches of managing all those freelancers. And so we were just sort of trying to find the sweet spot so that people can, clients can get an amazing value.”
12:01 - “And so for us, it's like, for me, I'd rather be blunt and honest and occasionally lose a client who is over demanding and unrealistic and just, I mean, we lay it all out and block it in white, here's exactly what we're going to do. Here's how much of it we're going to do, here's how much time it's going to take. And so when they're asking for things that are outside of that, I'll oftentimes say, well, let's, let's go back to totally understand and respect what you know, and then let's go back to the agreement. Let's look at what we have. And so that's, that's helpful for the people who are, you know, fair and reasonable.”
08:09 - Brian: “So as an outsource sort of content creation marketing function, one of the things I'm sure you experience all the time is your clients asking for content that may or may not actually move their, you know, business forward. Yeah. It doesn't move the needle. Then what's the point? How do you, how a, how often does that happen and what's the consultative process you go through? And then B, a follow-up question, how do you help them get from, get through that transition?” Edmund: “So I think a lot of that comes down to when you don't, if it, you know, if you, if you don't have a goal, it's difficult to score, right? So the, the way we look at it, or maybe the way that I've forced everybody to, to look at it is, you know, if you don't have a plan, you plan to fail.”
19:35 - Brian: “And as you've kind of embraced the sort of SEO nature and all of the kind of things that come out, I mean, it's quite clear that that's a data-driven sort of activity. How do you balance that creative sort of interest and background that you started with, with today's heavily data-driven approach to solving some of these problems?” Edmund: “So I think the, I think the, the, the way to do that, and I think it's, you know, I think it's a matter of balancing art and science. I think people generally are either really good. You have, you know, they, there's another metaphor. It's like you're, you're head in the clouds or feet on the, on the ground. I think that we try to do both. Like that's the thing is like, we're trying to…” Brian: “Sounds like a long stretch.” Edmund: “I can kind of, you know, I've got some, some cloud cover, but it's, it's that, it's the balance.”
Demystifying The Magic: Your Easy Guide to Starting A Podcast
31 Aug 2023
00:05:19
Summary Dive into the world of podcasting as the seasoned experts at Podcast Chef distill the complex art down to its essentials. This episode strips away the intimidation factor tied to starting a podcast, focusing on getting started rather than expensive equipment setups, and expressing why persistence trumps perfection.
Key Points • The essentials to start podcasting are straightforward. • Technology and equipment should not get in the way of starting a podcast. • Consistency and evolution are key to a successful podcast. • AI Tools and emerging technologies can resolve numerous equipment issues. • A podcast can be an effective tool to impact your business positively.
Best Quotes 00:05 - 00:30 • "And to be honest with you, it's not that hard. At least in the beginning. The things that you need to get started podcasting are pretty straightforward. You can usually do it with a laptop computer or you can do it with a phone. The other things that you might get into maybe a little bit later on are things like microphones, cameras, green screens, whatever."
00:38 - 00:57 • "The important part of the podcasting process is to, a, get started, and b, keep going. The rest of the stuff, how you sound, how you look, all of the other things will improve over time, so you don't need to try out of the gate."
01:48 - 02:01 • "The podcast you end up with, and the podcast you start with are two very different things. And the podcast that you have now, and the podcast you'll have a year from now and two years from now and on and on are all gonna be very different."
02:05 - 02:23 • "Don't let the equipment, don't let the tech stack get in the way. Don't worry about those kind of things because they're all gonna be evolving. There's AI tools right now that will help do noise canceling, noise reduction that will make up for a ton of equipment issues."
02:23 - 02:38 • "There are other solutions for video background editing, making you look better, all that kind of stuff that are all kind of regularly emergent with new solutions. And if you wait for the ideal answer, you won't get started."
02:40 - 02:54 • "The long and short of it is get started sooner than later, and you'll find that those files, whatever they are, you should be able to get them processed and turned into a reasonable podcast and start publishing."
03:20 - 03:43 • "But if you're looking for some deliberate help where you want perhaps a more faster jumpstart, hit our website, get our ebook. There are great suggestions in there on how you might best leverage the podcast that you're trying to start to build your business or to build your referral network."
Balancing New Client Attraction and Catering to Strong Buying Intent
29 Aug 2023
00:19:54
In this episode, Sean Boyce, the Founder of Podcast Chef, shares his experience and strategies for marketing businesses with nuanced offerings. He emphasizes the importance of catering to the audience's level of understanding and discusses the balance between attracting new clients and catering to those with strong buying intent. He emphasizes the importance of finding your value proposition, gaining social proof, and getting customer feedback. They also discuss the power of podcasting and leveraging various channels to attract customers.
Sean Boyce has run his consultancy firm NxtStep Consulting for over 10 years but found he wasn’t able to grow his network effectively and efficiently through in-person marketing or lead generation services.
To solve this, Sean founded Podcast Chef, a full-service podcast management platform that helped him grow his network while making awesome content at the same time.
Seeing the effectiveness of podcasting at reaching new people, Sean opened it up to others, helping people to start a podcast and delegating the management from post-production to booking guests. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
Nuanced businesses can be harder to market due to their complexity and lack of familiarity.
Starting with a more specific and opinionated approach can help potential customers understand the value of the offering.
Understanding the audience's level of knowledge and adapting the messaging accordingly is crucial in successful marketing.
Experimentation and trial and error are key to finding the right marketing approach for complex businesses.
Build confidence by recognizing your past successes and identifying the problems you can solve for others.
Determine your value proposition and gather social proof, case studies, and demonstrations to support it.
Use multiple channels, with podcasting as a cornerstone, to grow your brand and attract your target audience.
07:41 - “Yes, so I'm a data-driven person, engineer at heart, you know, tech geek what, however you want to describe it. So I love the T&E approach, as I often abbreviate it. The trial and error where I may have something I want to do, like let's say I wanna work with Fortune 500 companies as a B two B SaaS consultant. Great, can I come right out of the gate and do that? Maybe, maybe not, right? So I need to figure out a way to systematically get to those folks first and foremost to start having conversations with them to see whether or not there's a need, if they have a problem that I could solve, if they have a problem that I can solve, do they believe that I'm someone that can solve it, right?”
09:12 - “I think there's a lot of content out there that could be misleading in terms of like, you need to come up with all of the details now. And then you, you know, you do that in as just checking a box and then once you've checked that box, then you just sell, sell, sell. And just like everything goes super well, it's not really the case. I think there's a lot more of the like putting the plane together in the air while you're flying it, that anybody who's involved in business will tell you is a core component of the process. So getting comfortable with that, getting comfortable in those uncomfortable scenarios, is really an important piece of it.”
06:58 - “Because there's a certain amount and there's, there's always going to be, particularly in the marketing space, there's a certain amount of grow your own clients. You have to help them along the way through that sales journey. But I think on the other side of it too is the moment you have somebody with a strong buying intent, you now have a different problem, right? You have to be able to speak to that exact buying intent.”
15:28 - “The ability to then leverage the content you already have or the stuff you're creating to then I guess collect field data as well as to what's performing well, so you can understand what messages appealing to your audience. And, and I think in the beginning when you first start out, like your only real litmus test if you're doing it for the first time is you look at your bank account or whatever, and you go, yeah, I didn't get any checks this week. And that's a real problem because it's exactly looking at you're, you're looking at too much of the process. It sounds like the very first decision you made was actually not to be focused on that outcome, but instead focus on am I having good conversations first and then from those good conversations, am I able to turn any of them into a single piece of business? And then can I repeat that over and over again?”
11:04 - Brian: “What, what were your first handles, and what are the ones you're using now?” Sean: “Great question. So I think a lot of people struggle with as it's often referred to as this imposter syndrome and especially when you're starting out and even more so if you're innovating, like when I was starting as a product consultant, I couldn't find a lot of content out there about other people doing something similar. But what gave me the confidence in that was that I knew that I had done this successfully before and I had seen people with the kind of problems that I could help them solve. So that gave me a level of confidence to give it a shot, right? Because a bunch of people told me not to do it. Like a bunch of people are like, I don't even know what that is. I never heard of that. Good luck selling that.”
Powering Your Marketing Strategy: A Deep Dive into Cohesiveness
29 Aug 2023
00:04:00
Summary Unpack the importance of integrated marketing strategies in this enlightening episode. We reveal the dangers of 'shiny penny syndrome,' emphasizing instead the value of a cohesive approach across various platforms. Learn the art of interconnecting your podcast, YouTube channel, website, and other tools with inclusivity, all aimed towards supporting and enhancing your marketing game. Discover how to direct traffic to your marketing program and move people up and down your funnel effectively.
Key Points • The perils of the shiny penny syndrome in marketing. • The importance of constructing a cohesive marketing system. • Smart ways to interconnect your podcast, YouTube channel, and website. • Techniques for directing traffic to all parts of your marketing program. • How to effectively move people up and down the sales funnel.
Best Quotes 00:01 - 00:32 • "One of the things we try and avoid in the marketing space is the shiny penny syndrome or random acts of marketing. Marketing should be informed and inform a broader system, and it should be enhanced and supported by all the tools that you have at your disposal up to and including a podcast, maybe your YouTube channel, a website, any offline materials you have, your sales support, documentation, all that kind of stuff, all those artifacts of sales."
00:32 - 00:55 • "As you are building out that system, you want to try and increase cohesion as much as you can across all of the moving pieces. That means in your podcast, you might have commercials that reference content that's on your YouTube channel. In your YouTube channel, you might reference an upcoming guest you have on your podcast or an article you have to read on your website."
00:55 - 1:10 • "When you start to feather all these materials together, what you're gonna find is that they strengthen each other and they build and support each other. Now, it's not, it's true that not every person that reads an article on your website is gonna be the same person that listens to a podcast, but what you wanna do is make sure that you are using those things interconnected in a way to help lift each other."
01:21 - 01:43 • "So if there is a great compelling interview to support the article that you have on your website, and you have gotten that from a podcast, by all means, at the bottom of that article, reference your podcast, link to it, include a player, what have you. In the same way, if you talk about an article that's on your website during an episode, you're gonna wanna link that in the show notes."
01:44 - 2:00 • "As you start to build this cohesion, traffic is going to start feeding all of the pieces of your marketing program, and it'll help move people up and down the funnel as needed. So when you are trying to encourage folks to really go from a maybe a less informed buyer through that buying decision down to the point of transaction, they may need different kinds of information, and in some cases, that is best delivered in different formats."
Optimizing Your Podcasts - Solo vs Interview style vs Panel Discussion
25 Aug 2023
00:06:14
Summary Explore the world of podcasting with us as we delve into the pros and cons of doing it solo versus bringing guests onboard. Arm yourself with unique insights that could potentially revolutionize your approach to podcasting!
Key Points • One Person Podcasting: more control on content and logistics. • Strengths of Interview Style: exploration of unfamiliar content and opportunities. • Access to guests' networks: invaluable exposures. • Importance of variety in podcasting: deal with specific topics differently. • The learning process: benefiting from challenges and external variables.
Best Quotes 00:41 - 00:49 • "One of the strengths [of the solo style] is there's no coordination, so there's no upfront costs for trying to get people on. You don't really have a ton of challenges with logistics or any of that kind of stuff. You don't have to balance things like audio quality in the environment. You have a ton more control over the environment, but you also have a ton of editorial controls."
01:46 - 01:59 • "And probably the single greatest reason why you should almost always do an interview style show is that you get access to the guests network, the guests network, the person who's on your show."
03:27 - 03:44 • "One of the things that we're working on with our clients on the newer, our newer clients is to build a combination of the three of these where you have the individual topic base shows, you do an interview style, and then once a month or once a quarter, you do a panel base kind of show."
04:01 - 04:15 • "This will give you the strongest platform to work from and start you down the learning process very quickly. The interviews will challenge you as a podcast host and as a business owner, and you'll learn a ton of stuff."
04:30 - 04:40 • "If you're doing it the same way that you've always done it and you're all by yourself, that learning process just comes along slower. That's the nature of that, that kind of setup."
04:40 - 04:47 • "So as you're going out and building your podcast, step one, build the Interview style podcast and figure out who should be on it."
Summary Tune in as we delve deep into the power of podcasting in expanding your network. Our host explicates on the unique opportunities that podcasting opens up, how it fosters meaningful dialogues with peers, and how you can leverage it for lateral and vertical network growth. Additionally, learn the importance of persistence in honing your podcast hosting skills for better audience engagement.
Key Points • Podcasting opens up unique networking opportunities. • Hosting a podcast helps you connect with peers on subject-specific talks. • The better your podcast becomes, the larger your audience grows. • Podcasting offers both vertical and horizontal network expansion. • Persistence and skill development are key in successful podcasting.
Best Quotes 00:15 - 00:37 • "There are connections and opportunities through the podcasting experience that you don't really get any other way. There are opportunities to dig deep into subject specific conversations with your peers and leverage connections and connected opportunities that, again, you can't get any other way."
00:40 - 00:52 • "When you have somebody on your your show, you'll find that in many cases, they're gonna have, they're gonna know some of the same people, you know, and so that conversation gets pretty great."
01:13 - 01:27 • "Effectively, the, the better your podcast is at collecting audience members, the more people want to be on it. So you're going to not only be able to expand the network sort of laterally, you're gonna be able to expand it vertically as well."
01:27 - 01:36 • "That vertical expansion where you're moving up, for lack of a better way to describe it up in the social hierarchy, is also an outrageously important thing to do."
01:37 - 01:44 • "So when you're sitting here working on your podcast and you're on like episode 12 or whatever, and you're like, oh, I'm not sure about this thing, stick with it."
01:45 - 01:57 • "Keep going. Build your audience. And the way you're gonna do that is continue to invest in podcasting as an experience and, and invest in pods casting as a marketing effort and grow your skills as a host."
01:57 - 02:07 • "That skill growth is going to help you a, again, find better ways to engage your audience, grow that audience, and get that vertical and horizontal network expansion."
Dive into the dynamic world of podcast marketing with Ilana from Heard of Media and host Brian Mattocks. Uncover the secrets of audience building, relationship forging in B2B podcasting, and the subtle art of podcast promotion. Explore media landscapes and tactics that turn the microphone's magic into a thriving listener base.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
24:56 - You bring up an important point and I think it's something to be mindful of for our listeners and that is that even in many ways what's defined as a podcast is now changing, right? It's no longer just an audio that people can listen to while they go for right. It's now an audio plus a video channel plus a TikTok stream plus this, that, and the other thing. And with all of those sort of silos coming down, you have to understand that you're now playing in a media landscape. It's not just that niche conversation and in a media landscape, there's folks that have been in that a lot longer than you have out there doing this work. There are some things that even experienced podcasters can learn about the way media operates to help grow and engage an audience in a meaningful way.
9:13 - Advertising data shows that people traditionally are more likely to buy from a host red ad that they hear in a podcast from a, you know, someone they follow regularly. And by follow, I mean their podcast, necessarily their socials or whatnot, right? They're hearing it in their ears or on the YouTube, on the YouTube channel. Like, I love this product, buy it because that's one of the reasons advertisers love podcasting and that sort of share of ears so much.
22:15 - And in success, you'll be able to go on those bigger shows where you can get bigger hits at once. The other thing I think is just a misconception and again I think I did mention this earlier, is social media is great for brand awareness, really hard for it to bring in actual new listeners and downloads. I do think YouTube is changing that a little bit, changing that game. So that's the other big conversation right now in podcasting.
30:52 - Brian: In your marketing journey so far, what are your three biggest lessons that you've learned? Ilana: Don't be afraid to test. If you have the bandwidth to do it, be very mindful of how your paid, earned, and owned. Opportunities inform and play against each other. So be ready to continuously optimize and scale those to raise your profile and also your audience not duplicate efforts in the different spaces. 'cause they do overlap a lot and you know, I think you don't need to be on every social platform, but finding the platform that you get the most engagement from with the audience you're targeting or knowing where your audience is, is really where you should be investing your time and your content and adjusting it specific to that audience.
13:34 - One of the things with brands that I didn't really focus on earlier, but is a strategic way to think about podcasts especially if you're videoing your podcast, you can break that up and use it as content across all the platforms that your brand exists on. So, you know, you can take this interview and cut it up into moments add subtitles, I mean add copy to the screen and put it in it, it shows up in people's feeds, right? And you highlight whatever you're talking about again and see what is resonating and what people are following.
Surviving the Podcast Game: Evolution, Milestones and Persistence
23 Aug 2023
00:06:24
Summary Dive into this enlightening episode as we delve into the challenges of standing out in the bustling podcast landscape. You'll learn from our host’s personal experiences about the evolution of a podcast, how to navigate critical transformation points often faced by podcasters, and the importance of resilience in this dynamic journey. Whether you're a seasoned podcaster or a beginner host, this episode is packed with critical info!
Key Points • Podcasting is a journey of evolution, solving problems, and expanding your horizons.
• The reasons for starting a podcast may differ from the reasons for continuing it.
• An inflection point at 3-6 months may urge you to question your podcast's worth.
• The concept of ‘seasonal podcasting’ can help manage content gaps.
• Moments of doubt or fatigue are temporary, just like recording a bad episode.
Best Quotes 00:29 - 00:48 • "So the podcast you start with, and the podcast you have six months later, a year later, three years later, are not the same podcast. You will change as a host, you'll evolve podcasting as a solution to some of your business problems will change and evolve and grow and expand."
01:08 - 01:18 • "As you go through it, you're gonna hit a couple major milestones, somewhere around a three to six month mark. You're gonna be asking your questions, is it all worth it?"
01:51 - N/A • "If I stop now, would the content I've already created still be valuable? If I continued, will I learn more about my clients, about my network partners, what have you?"
02:33 - 02:46 • "When you get there, the natural sort of questions that you would ask, should I continue? Should I change, should I pivot? I'll tell you right now. Have that conversation again in a year."
02:50 - 2:55 • "If you can't, if it's not doing it in a year, chances are you're not gonna be able to profit from it afterwards if you're not able to reconcile the effort versus the value it's creating for your business."
03:45 - 03:56 • "Because those moments of doubt or those moments of fatigue are just as momentary as any of the other episodes you've recorded."
04:28 - 04:33 • "And the reality is these things take time. You want to give them time to mature."
The Evolution of SEO and the Changing Landscape of Digital Marketing
22 Aug 2023
00:27:29
In this episode, Sara Mannix, the founder of successful marketing agency Mannix Marketing Inc., discusses the evolution of SEO and the changing landscape of digital marketing. She highlights the key factors that have remained constant, such as the power of focus and niche expertise. Sara also talks about the shift towards a holistic approach to marketing and shares strategies used to market hard-to-reach industries, including the challenges faced in the hospitality industry.
Sara Mannix is the Founder and President of Mannix Marketing Inc., an award-winning digital marketing agency specializing in SEO, PPC, and web design. With over 27 years of experience in marketing and tourism, she leads Mannix Tourism, a destination marketing agency focused on helping communities thrive, and tourism businesses achieve their goals. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
SEO has evolved from “search engine positioning” to a holistic approach focused on success metrics.
The success of SEO depends on understanding the lifetime value of customers and targeting the right audience.
Niche industries can utilize thought leadership and targeted marketing to generate conversions.
Cross-functional learning enables the application of successful strategies from one industry to another.
Niche expertise in the hospitality industry provides a deep understanding of specific challenges and solutions.
Having a niche helps in clearly defining goals and delivering a guaranteed return on investment.
Agencies struggling with their pipeline can benefit greatly from partnering with niche digital marketing experts.
02:39 - “I said, well, at the bottom of every website that we do, I put website design and development by Mannix Marketing, and it links back to us. And I think that makes a difference. So the links have changed. It's not just about having a link on any website, it's about having, you know, relevant content on relevant sites. That was true even before Google. Because Google really made it much more about the quality of the link.”
04:45 - “So I think the businesses that lend themselves to paid search and SEO and that type of lead gen are typically businesses with shorter turnaround times. I need this item, or I need this expertise, and I'm gonna search for it. Right. Where can I find it? Right. And that has a shorter span. And a lot of experts think, well, it's only word of mouth for my business, or it's this or that. And I always tell people, if it's a big purchase, and they are the type of people who want it within the next three months, they're going to research it on the internet as well.”
20:10 - “I think it's one of those paradoxical things, like what is the saying about attorneys, like someone who represents themselves in court as a fool for a client. I think in many ways you almost can't do your own marketing. The blind spots are just too big. Yeah. Which is probably an unpopular opinion.”
06:29 - Brian: “So how do you deal with some of those hard to market kind of items or how to hard to market services with the clients that you represent?”.. Sara: “Yeah, so we actually have a client very similar. They do massive heating, heating and cooling systems that go on top of billion buildings that are worth millions of dollars. Right. And those numbers are very low for somebody who doesn't know who they are and who are searching for it. But when you're selling something that's a million dollars, and you're number one in search, they actually do SEO, and they have such great ROI because if there's 50 people a year searching for it, and they find them, and they sell a million dollar cooling refrigerant building Right, right. Solution, they've paid for their SEO, and their paid search for the next seven years.”
12:41 - Brian: “So what I'm hearing is that anyone willing to pay or anyone with a pulse and a checkbook is not a sufficient information for you to target them for SEO. Is that right?”.. Sara: “That's true.”.. Brian: “I have the number of clients that I've worked with in the marketing space where I'm like, so who's a great client for you? And they're like, ah, anybody will pay.”.. Sara: “We like, we have specific industries that we do really well, but we have really narrowed down on, and we have been in business for 30, 26 years, so we have done many industries. So, but if I were only a five-year-old agency, I would not recommend that, it's a nightmare. And it's just too much. You can't do everything. Well, you can't, right. We don't say we do everything well, we say we do SEO well, right. And we can do SEO well for anybody, but do we want to do it for everybody? No, no.”.. Brian: “You can go horizontal, or you can go vertical, but you can't really go both. Right.”
Mastering the Art of Interrupting as a Podcast Host
21 Aug 2023
00:03:52
Summary Learn essential techniques on how to interrupt guests effectively and redirect them to stay on track during podcast episodes. Interrupting strategically can save time, prevent irrelevant content, and ensure a captivating final product.
Key Points • Interrupting guests can prevent them from monopolizing the entire showtime with irrelevant answers or excessive jargon. • Skillful interruptions can be framed as a desire to clarify, understand impact, or delve deeper into a particular topic. • Retargeting guest responses through interruptions can make the content more appropriate and engaging for the audience. • Failure to interrupt may result in losing valuable time and a potentially unusable episode. • Interrupting is a valuable skill that helps podcast hosts maintain control and facilitate the best content from their guests.
Best Quotes 01:05 - 01:11 • "Hey, I wanna stop you there because I think I don't wanna lose a piece of what you just said, 'cause I think it's really important."
01:12 - 01:20 • "Hey, I want to stop you there and I want to get a little bit more clarity around what you're talking about because our listeners may need a little more help following along."
01:30 - 01:36 • "Hey, can you stop for a moment and I wanna understand what impact that had on you or your business or what have you."
02:14 - 02:24 • "Interrupting is a valuable skill as a podcast host. It will help you save episodes and help guests bring their best knowledge and content to the table."
Play MPE: A Game-Changing Platform for the Music Industry
15 Aug 2023
00:30:57
In this episode, Allan Benedict, Director of Business Development and Marketing at Play MPE, discusses the challenges and strategies involved in marketing and expanding in the music industry. Play MPE is a SaaS product that caters to both labels and independent artists, helping them reach their marketing goals and compete with industry giants. Allan emphasizes the importance of prioritizing investments, monitoring data analytics, and collaborating as a team. He also shares successful strategies, such as partnering with songwriting competitions, and highlights the unique features that set Play MPE apart from its competitors. Building connections, understanding target audiences, and thinking outside the box are key elements for success in the music industry, according to Allan.
In this episode, Allan Benedict shares his career journey, from working as a Radio Marketing & Promotions Intern at Secretly Group to becoming the Director of Business Development & Marketing at Play MPE. He also served as the National Director of Radio Promotion, U.S. at [PIAS] and Radio Promotion Manager at The Syndicate. Allan's expertise lies in planning and executing successful radio marketing campaigns for renowned artists and labels, as well as fostering strong industry relationships. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
Play MPE is one of the first companies to deliver watermarked audio to radio stations securely.
Play MPE offers the same level of functionality and ease of use to both labels and independent artists, making it ideal for various users in the music industry.
Constantly shuffling resources to ensure they are where they need to be.
Utilizing testimonials and reputation to educate artists on the value of their platform.
Build connections with people in the industry to gain support and opportunities.
Understand the needs and preferences of your target audience for effective marketing.
Adapt your marketing approach based on the unique characteristics of different music markets.
01:27 - “So if you've ever wondered how radio gets the new songs to play, it's through a system kind of similar to ours where labels or artists or promoters or managers will utilize our platform to deliver that stuff securely and be able to track some metrics on it too.”
24:09 - “Especially with just the, the shift in culture really where everyone's looking at TikTok and these kind of short snippets of releases versus album plays like they used to. Right. It's, I mean, they always say that the music industry evolves really quickly, and this is just over the last five, six years, the most I've seen it evolve in the 20 or so years I've been working new music one way or another.”
11:18 - “One of the things that I find so compelling about your kind of your role is you've got, so you've got the stations on one side and the station networks for that matter because you know, very rarely is it like independence you have then the labels. So, and some of those labels vary in size and scope. And then you also are going after the independent artists. So like just on at a high level you're marketing to almost four different types of organizations and you're doing it all and every one of those markets and every one of those organizations needs varying levels of education.”
17:40 - “So when you go through this process and you're identifying, you know, the upcoming artists you're going after or the labels that you're working with and then getting them in front of the right, the right folks securely, how much of the work you're doing is education versus, you know, in terms of like the marketing conversations up until the transaction point and then afterwards, what does that kind of like, help me understand like what the split is?”
25:51 - Brian: “And in your journey to the, you know, wildly successful and complicated marketing position you're in, what are your three biggest things you've learned along the way to help the next guy out?”.. Allan: “My three biggest along the way, these might skew a little more music industry than traditional marketing, but one thing I'm a big believer in is, is keep in touch with people you've worked with in the past. Like you can program ads and set up ad groups and do some SEO work all you want, but it's always easier if you have someone you can turn to and either ask questions or you never know where someone's going to end up five years from now. Whether they could be a partner for whatever you're working with or help you get a leg up on a conversation you need to have.”
Modernizing Healthcare: The Complexities and Innovations in Pharmacy Commerce Systems
08 Aug 2023
00:25:02
In this episode, Jackie Brusch, the Senior Director of Marketing at Emporos, discusses her journey in combining writing, marketing, and a love for healthcare. She highlights the challenges of marketing pharmacy commerce systems and the importance of understanding different personas. Brusch emphasizes the collaboration between sales and marketing teams, the balance between thought leadership and sales enablement content, and the focus on improving the customer experience in the pharmacy space.
Jackie Brusch, the Senior Director of Marketing at Emporos, brings extensive expertise in pharmacy commerce systems and simplifying the process of delivering care as a modern-day pharmacy. With a proven track record in marketing leadership roles, including positions at OpenClinica and Mobiquity Inc., Jackie has consistently driven successful marketing initiatives and delivered meaningful results for leading healthcare and technology organizations. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
Content marketing as a way to modernize healthcare and bridge the gap between writing, marketing, and technology.
Focusing on pharmacy directors and IT professionals as the primary audiences for these systems.
Utilizing face-to-face networking and digital marketing to engage with potential clients and build relationships.
Integrating sales development reps (SDRs) under marketing to foster one-to-one relationships with leads.
Providing tools like comparison tools and checklists to help prospects navigate the buying process.
Emphasizing the importance of collaboration and communication between sales and marketing teams.
Addressing challenges faced by hospitals in the outpatient pharmacy space and offering solutions.
12:07 - “For us as a marketing team, we're a very small organization, so the team is very small. And what we realized was we're not having trouble generating leads, we're having trouble with, okay, once we have a lead, how do we get them to a place where they're warmed up enough to pass to sales? Mm. And what we've discovered was that we really needed that person that fell between marketing and sales to take that next step.”
15:23 - “There's definitely a thought leadership side that's focused on the, the vision, right? Of where we want to go as a company, where we want to see our clients go as you know, pharmacies and, and where they're going in terms of modernizing their pharmacy.”
13:55 - “You've moved sales into marketing to help with those middle of the funnel conversations until you get to the transaction point. When you help your process prospects go through that process, there's, there's gotta be a blend, right? There's some, some of the material gets very opinionated and some of it doesn't, right? Some of it's gotta stay fairly high level and educational. How do you strike that balance and then obviously with the teams there, how are you making sure that they're getting the right tools for their job?”
15:40 - “So how do you identify what you're going to be providing in terms of enabling your teams to help folks move through the funnel and, and what sort of, what does that content look like in terms of how much of it's educational versus how much of it's opinionated?”
17:43 - Jackie: “So there's a middle ground there and I think finding out what that is and working together as a sales and marketing team to provide that thought, enabling content from top of funnel all the way down to very specific sales enablement content, that's where we're starting to really fill in those gaps so that everybody from the marketing side to the, all the way down to the sales side, down to like contracting and all that, that we have everything that spans that”... Brian: “Yeah. And I think it's, I think it's like one of the, that that decision to then roll those things together, you know, has to help with the gap analysis. It's gotta make it a lot easier to figure out like, where are we stuck? What's not working? By having those in the same area and in the same space.”
The Benefits of Hosting Your Own Podcast vs. Being a Guest
01 Aug 2023
00:13:50
In this episode, Sean Boyce and Brian Mattocks debate the advantages of hosting your own podcast versus being a guest on someone else's show. While guesting can provide access to a new audience, having your own podcast offers more control, opportunities for growth, and the ability to build authority and brand. Additionally, they discuss the importance of strategic guest booking and caution against the pitfalls of low-quality guest requests.
Sean Boyce has run his consultancy firm NxtStep Consulting for over 10 years but found he wasn’t able to grow his network effectively and efficiently through in-person marketing or lead generation services.
To solve this, Sean founded Podcast Chef, a full-service podcast management platform that helped him grow his network while making awesome content at the same time. Seeing the effectiveness of podcasting at reaching new people, Sean opened it up to others, helping people to start a podcast and delegating the management from post-production to booking guests. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
Having your own podcast provides control over the narrative and content.
Producing your own content allows for growth and exposure opportunities.
Being a guest can be beneficial for promoting specific projects or books.
Guesting on other shows offers access to a new audience and the chance to grow your own podcast.
Hosting a show and being a subject-matter expert can sometimes clash.
Strategic relationships and cross-pollination can expand audience reach.
Guesting without the ability to drive engagement may have limited value.
01:15 - “I wouldn't have done that if I didn't think having your own podcast was arguably more valuable. And the biggest reason, I think, is because if you're guessing on someone else's show, you really don't control anything. You don't control the narrative, the story, the positioning, maybe even the questions, what you're talking about.”
01:32 - “You don't get any of the extras like producing the content, having that content out there, the opportunity to do different things with it, grow it, and just have it grow your exposure, authority, and brand. All of these things that you get if you're making an investment into a podcast or a show of your own to promote what it is that you do help you help educate people, grow your exposure, all those types of things, you lose all of that value if you are exclusively just basically like guesting on other shows.”
02:53 - “One of the things that comes to mind, though, as a strength is when you are guesting on other podcasts, you have two kind of major things going for you. The first thing you have going for you is you get access to a completely new audience, which has value. If somebody likes what you're saying on somebody else's show, and that audience is existing, you get access to that audience by virtue of being a guest on that show. You might grow your own podcast even further by having that exposure. And then the other side of it is, when you're a host, typically, and I can speak to my experience with this and listening to the episodes that we've produced for our clients, it's very challenging sometimes to also take the role of a subject-matter expert.”
03:52 - “So I think in some cases, yes, you should always have your own podcast, like that's like bread and butter for our value prop. But broadly, I think supplementing that with guest booking or guests being guests on other people's shows is a great way to both increase your exposure and position yourself also as a subject-matter expert thoughts.”
09:41 - Brian: “If you, if you're in a market space where there are shows that are really, really good and well done for you to reach out and say, Hey listen, I host a show, it's similar, it's a little bit different in this way. Maybe you can share some of your insights here. Maybe I can come share some of my insights on your show. Those synergies are great.”.. Sean: “Your, I mean, do your homework and be genuine, right? And make sure that what it is you're trying to connect with ultimately makes sense, not just for you, but for them. And again, just like we do in guest booking a podcast chef, like it's more about them. It's not about you, right? Talk to them about why they would be interested in having you as a guest on their show. Like what can you do for them? What can you, what kind of value can you bring to their audience?”
Tailwind: Revolutionizing Social Media Marketing with AI Advertising Services
25 Jul 2023
00:27:46
In this episode, Susan Moeller, the Director of Marketing at Tailwind, discusses how Tailwind provides small businesses with a marketing team at an affordable price through AI. Susan shares insights into their marketing strategies, highlighting the power of search advertising and leveraging Pinterest for word-of-mouth marketing. The episode also explores Tailwind's latest offerings, including their AI-powered ad creation feature and the benefits of combining TikTok and Pinterest marketing.
Susan Moeller is a dynamic marketing professional known for her expertise in audience building through paid media, strategic partnerships, engaging content, and social media. As the Co-Founder of the Women In Content Marketing Facebook Group and the Creator of BuzzSumo Academy, Susan has a passion for empowering marketers and sharing her knowledge. With her role as the Director of Marketing at Tailwind and her experience as a webinar host, Susan is a problem solver who thrives on connecting with others to drive impactful marketing strategies. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
Small businesses can offload their marketing tasks to Tailwind and focus on what they love.
Tailwind utilizes paid search and Pinterest marketing to reach its target audience.
The company focuses on word of mouth, reviews, and testimonials as key marketing channels.
TikTok has shown promising results for Tailwind with its low CPM and high engagement.
Users have reported a 525% increase in traffic and a 92% increase in sales using Tailwind ads.
Tailwind is favored by e-commerce store owners, service providers, bloggers, and agencies, especially those with a technical background.
Tailwind cuts through the clutter of ad managers and offers a more intuitive user interface.
13:48 - “I'm really happy because we've seen so much traction in those channels that Tailwind now has a part of our ghostwriter AI interface that will create search ads for you. It will create social ads for you, and we have a beta program that will manage your ads through our AI system. And that has gotten extremely great reviews in beta.”
03:38 - “We provide a way for small businesses to not do their marketing by having them offload it to Tailwind. And our goal really is to make world cost marketing easy for everyone. So we don't want to… we don't want to just tell people what to do. We want to make it easy for them to get things done and be able to move on with the rest of their day.”
24:20 - “I mean for as much as we're a data driven, you know, in many ways what feels like a science, the relationships are really where all the magic is anyway, because you have to be able to do that translation.”
10:49 - “I mean, it's a very peculiar uptick with TikTok. It's almost like some folks go and they have this wild success, and then they're almost fearful to continue, and they pull back, and it's this back and forth.”
16:12 - Brian: “There are a good number of your clients, no doubt, or at least ideal clients potentially, that don't have a strong technical background. How are you from a, as a marketer getting in front of them, and what do you do to onboard them in a, a friendly way, I guess? You would see that Oh yeah, oh yeah, folks fall off in a month and a half because they just couldn't get their head around the tech.” Susan: “Right. Yeah, I know. It's a very, it, it's a very, it's an interesting talent. Our, the customers that we see coming to us that stick with us the longest are e-commerce store owners and service providers, bloggers and agencies. So I would say that the people who stick with us longer are, are a little bit more on the, the technically savvy side of things.”
In this episode, Brian Mattocks and Sean Boyce discuss why marketing is often underestimated and dive into the continuous discovery process in marketing. They emphasize the importance of understanding the buyer's journey and problem space to create effective marketing strategies and tactics. They also highlight the significance of focusing on the right problem and using customer insights to tailor marketing messages.
Sean Boyce has run his consultancy firm NxtStep Consulting for over 10 years but found he wasn’t able to grow his network effectively and efficiently through in-person marketing or lead generation services.
To solve this, Sean founded Podcast Chef, a full-service podcast management platform that helped him grow his network while making awesome content at the same time.
Seeing the effectiveness of podcasting at reaching new people, Sean opened it up to others, helping people to start a podcast and delegating the management from post-production to booking guests. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
Marketing is often underestimated and misunderstood, especially in the B2B SaaS software startup space.
Continuous discovery is crucial in marketing and should inform all marketing efforts, from copy to conversations.
Understanding the buyer's journey and problem space is essential for effective marketing.
Focusing on the top issue and identifying patterns among target market customers helps prioritize and tailor marketing strategies.
Building a systematic process based on goals and objectives ensures meaningful progress.
The discovery process in marketing is ongoing and requires constant adaptation and learning.
Balancing the customer's perceived problem with the actual problem is key to delivering the right solution.
00:17 - Why is marketing so hard? And I think this is something that a lot of people have misconceptions about. I think people underestimate how difficult marketing is going to be. And from my world, that comes from like the B2B SaaS software startup space. There's conventional wisdom that I would say is largely incorrect in terms of like protecting your ideas and not sharing them with people and stuff like that because they're going to steal them, run with them and become overnight billionaires, which pretty much never happens.
10:54 - It's not the customer's job to be thinking through the better solution. That's your job, right? You are providing a better solution, but you, you need to understand what the proper problem is and how it manifests. And when I say, I mean how they think of it in their head.
01:25 - Marketing is as much a practice as any of the other professions that require years and years of degree work. And the reason I bring it up in that context is even if you understand the basics, even if you know how to use all of the tools, even if you know the right, the exact right time and place to put advertising together, what you're always doing is discovery with your buyer and the buyers for the same, ostensibly the same service across different companies are different because every buyer persona that you're going after is different.
09:59 - Oftentimes the customer misdiagnoses what they need and so their search queries and their demands are going to be different than what they tell you in discovery, right? So in the discovery process, you're going to get to whatever root cause or or or whatever meaningful deep-seated pain you're trying to solve, you're going to get there, but it's not gonna change what they do on, you know, Monday morning when they start typing in those, what they perceive their issues to be on Google. So how do you connect those dots through that content conversation to get folks from that maybe suboptimal search query to your product or service?
02:09 - Brian: How do you take that discovery process and systematize it in a way that you're not reinventing the wheel every single time?Sean: Yeah, this is a good point. And so getting comfortable with the continuous discovery process is critical for the work that I do and people that are trying to build B2B Seth type businesses. But it influences everything. I call it copy to conversations. So anything that you might write anywhere, this is like marketing content, right?
From English Teacher to Tech Company Marketing Director: Scott Hammer's Journey
11 Jul 2023
00:32:53
In this episode, Scott Hammer, the Vice President of Marketing at Striven, shares his journey on how he successfully marketed the company's industry-agnostic ERP system despite limited funding and a small user base. He also highlights the importance of aligning verticals and customizing the product to cater to various businesses. Scott further discusses Striven's various partner programs and emphasizes his top three marketing lessons.
Scott Hammer is an accomplished professional with a successful career in sales, marketing, and partnerships. With a track record of driving revenue growth and establishing strong relationships, Scott has led teams and implemented integrated strategies to achieve impressive results. His expertise spans various industries, including technology, education, and publishing, where he has consistently delivered impactful solutions and exceptional customer experiences. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
Understanding customer needs involves recognizing unique value propositions and adapting to market segments' diversity and differences.
Influencing developments requires getting everyone on the same page, remaining focused on your own company's use case, paying attention to the marketplace's needs, and growing your customer base.
The acquisition cycle can be extended due to the many stakeholders involved in the decision-making process
Striven Software offers two partner programs: a referral program for technology consultants and an integration partnership for products that integrate with ERPs.
Hammer's first marketing lesson is to not chase shiny objects and wait two weeks before bringing an idea to leadership.
Thirdly, Hammer stresses the importance of aligning your passions with the product or service you're working on and the company you're in.
04:32 - “We don't raise rounds of funding, like a lot of other, like a lot of our competitors, not all of them, but some of them. And then I think that's pretty typical in tech. You know, you have a new product, let's throw just a bunch of money into it, hire a ton of people, you know, just throw everything at the wall, see what sticks, and then cut back from there. Ours is really different.”
19:01 - “I think functionality is sometimes more important than industry. I mean, you, you have to show that you can serve an industry. And, and I, what I mean by that is you can't just show it on your website. You can't just say it. You have to have customers that have had proven success in your industry, and you have to show that you have the ability to be a game changer.”
14:34 - “Because you have, there's two bridges in the product space, right? There's the bridge to your current customers in the bridge to your potential customers, right? And so you represent essentially the future of their product and the current customers represent, you know, the lifetime value and that kind of stuff. So it's a really interesting kind of place where you have to sit to kind of manage all of that stuff as, as you've done that.”
09:16 - “Very often, and at least in my experience, I can say, well, you know, I think that our solution is great for X, Y, and Z. Well, when you do your market research or you go out and you start doing any meaningful discovery, they go, no, no, your value is in, you know, A, B, and C. How do you reconcile those disconnects, and, you know, that has to inform the product dev team at some point as well, right?”
27:41 Brian: “What are the three top, top three things that come to mind in your journey that you can share with our listeners?” Scott: “Number one, don't chase shiny objects. There are a lot of shiny objects out there, and it's, it's wise to consider, you know, if something seems like a good idea, and if you're a passionate and excited person, everything's going to seem like a good idea at first. Wait two weeks before bringing it to anyone else, especially your leadership. And if it seems like a good idea after two weeks, then go ahead and bring it.”
In this episode, Willy Kuo from Coohom explains how their software solutions for interior design are marketed to B2B clients such as Lowe's and Ashley Furniture through creating credibility and good content to build trust with prospects. Meanwhile, a B2B marketing director offers insights on managing a strong sales pipeline by maintaining 150 leads per salesperson, practicing credibility, staying true to purpose, and using the right terminology to communicate effectively with potential clients.
Willy Kuo is a globally passionate marketer with over 7 years of experience in B2B and B2C marketing. Specializing in technological marketing areas, branding, SEO, SEM, CRO, CRM, and more, Willy is a versatile creator of appealing content. With a background in Electronic Engineering and a multifaceted artistic side, Willy brings a unique blend of creativity and rationality to his marketing approach, aiming to create impactful content that elevates brand awareness to a global scale. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
Create good content and demonstrate the right marketing approach
Referrals are vital for establishing word-of-mouth marketing
B2B companies sometimes move at different speeds, but it typically takes about one to three months to close a deal in the US market.
Managing a full pipeline requires keeping about 150 leads per salesperson at any good time.
Credibility is the key to building relationships with potential clients.
It's essential for marketers to stay true to their purpose and not get lost in the market.
Learning the right terminology is crucial to appeal to potential clients and close deals.
04:33 - You need to create good content and also the good credibility. So these big players, this business, would trust your brand. You know, it's not like you're just doing a lot of online advertising. So they would know just, oh, you're a good brand, and why should I trust you? Why should I spend over 10,000 U s d, you know, at your company for a year? So I think the most important thing to do B2B marketing is credibility.
05:14 - The first thing, you need to spend a little bit, a little bit of time to figure out what is the right content for your target audience. And if you can create good content and the right approach, I mean, normally they would like to talk to you and when they, when you got a chance to talk to them, that's the chance. That's the, I mean, that's your platform, that's your stage to show how your marketing ability can attract these players.
08:00 - Brian: So when you started this approach to try and get to these players in Ashley or Lowe's, your entire approach was find people just like you in that organization and talk to them and see if they can't move you laterally. Was that the idea?.. Willy: Yes, yes. But the thing is that I wouldn't just, you know, I wouldn't just like approach them either on LinkedIn or email. I wouldn't just talk to them and say “Hey, I'm Willy, I'm behalf of cool home and blah, blah blah. But we do, you know, because normally if I am the one getting this kind of message, I would just ignore, you know? So in terms of the first approach is very important. You need to, you know, it's like dating, you need to make a good impression at first.
11:26 - Brian: But that referral then kicks off the next relationship and the next relationship and the next relationship. And that's the way it's… Willy: Yes. Because you know, in marketing the ultimate goal is called word-of-mouth marketing. If you don't do anything and then people will do the marketing for you, you know?
Referrals and Transformation: A B2B Marketing Chat
02 Apr 2024
00:26:15
Dive into the world of B2B marketing, where strategy meets social science. Join our guest, Julie Williamson, as she unveils the secrets behind effective leadership, channel partnerships, and the art of aligning teams. Get ready for insights that could transform your organization!
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
21:28 - How do we get the leadership team to fully engage on the strategic goals, the transformation effort, the change that's afoot in the organization so that they can accelerate and really drive that transformation as effectively as possible. That's our sweet spot. We do a lot of other work too, but that's where we really shine is if you feel like something is kind of gummed up or decisions aren't getting made quickly enough or you're not heading in the right direction, we can help organizations to align and deliver together.
06:33 - So just from a purely tactical perspective, if people are thinking about how do I get someone to be a referral for me, don't ask for too much of their time. You don't need it because that social proof happens very quickly. It happens within the first five or ten minutes that the person who is getting the referral is deciding whether or not they trust in this person and they trust that the information being shared is valid. So you don't need an hour. So we look for that little slot of time that we can get with them to get the two of them together. And then we generally host the conversation, at least for the first few minutes to make introductions to say, you know, here's the work that we did, here's the work we're thinking about doing, and connect the dots at that point. Sometimes it can be really helpful to drop off and let the two of them have a conversation just between them.
09:34 - Because once people have the opportunity to work with us and, to hear what we have to say and also to see what it's like to be in a meeting with us or be in an experience with us, then things actually move pretty quickly from a sales perspective. So the marketing process of getting someone through a referral conversation generally opens the door for us to get more into that experiential marketing.
12:03 - I find prompts them to come back and want more, right? So again, it's that idea of giving them something that's really useful and tangible that they can put into play right away. And then they say, okay, I get it. I see the value of this. How can you help me build a strategy that will let me stand kind of apart and set apart this group? Or how can you help me with the growth strategies that we have in place that we need to accelerate?
13:56 - And that's where our channel partners really come into place into play. So we have the referral program that we do with clients where we ask them to give us introductions or to speak on our behalf. But the channel partner approach for us is proving to be really useful for getting us those inbound leads because they can listen for and start to pull in customers who feel like they're in the right space. So that's been really interesting for us to explore.
In this episode, Brian Mattocks and Sean Boyce discuss the impact of AI on podcasting and marketing and share the latest trends in SEO and content creation. They emphasize the importance of relationship-based marketing and explore strategies for identifying keywords and creating compelling content. Additionally, they discuss how keyword research can benefit podcasting by providing guidance for topics and guest relationships and improving search rankings.
Sean Boyce has run his consultancy firm NxtStep Consulting for over 10 years but found he wasn’t able to grow his network effectively and efficiently through in-person marketing or lead generation services.
To solve this, Sean founded Podcast Chef, a full-service podcast management platform that helped him grow his network while making awesome content at the same time.
Seeing the effectiveness of podcasting at reaching new people, Sean opened it up to others, helping people to start a podcast and delegating the management from post-production to booking guests. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
SEO is evolving, but creating organic content remains important, even if AI is used to present search results.
Keyword research is a critical part of content creation and is an area where AI tools can be helpful.
Keyword research can be used to produce better results with minimal changes, leading to exponential improvement.
Focus on relevant keywords to extract a variety of topics that will be relevant for the show.
The audio and video components are only one aspect of the podcast, other components like show notes and transcripts can also benefit from keyword-based approaches.
Understand one's ideal customer profile before using keyword research tools to solve problems.
01:08 - I've spent about two weeks now studying whatever the latest is at the moment in terms of what's happening with s e o search engine optimization. How is content being created and produced? What tools and resources are people using and even all the way to who's creating it, is it still organic, human-written for the most part? Is it largely being AI generated.
01:48 - New tools and resources are coming to market every day. And obviously, with what we do at Podcast Chef, we help people create organic content through podcasting. So you're interviewing people, you're asking questions. That's almost exclusively done by people, at least for now. But in some of these other formats, some of that stuff is starting to change.
14:34 - I think it's really important as well to understand that if you're using your podcast well the, the audio and video components are only one aspect of the podcast, right? You have the show notes, you have the transcripts, these are all things that benefit from that keyword-based approach. You have then the articles that you can spin out a podcast and all of that.
17:20 - But it is absolutely vital that if you have no idea who your ideal client profile is, you better figure that out. Or all of these tools actually get more dangerous. The risk of you using them incorrectly to solve your problem is outrageous.
03:56 Brian: So how do you know people like us who are out there trying to get, you know, new clients and attract the right kind of folks, deal with the fact that search is changing now super quick, and what can we do to keep up?.. Sean: Great question and this is part of what I kind of set out to answer for us as we figure out how our process evolves. So long story short here, the abbreviation first I think is that basically don't panic is my first suggestion because.. Brian: The Hitchhiker's Guide will always save you, right?.. Sean: Yes. Like I'm having conversations with people, and they're like, websites aren't going to be a thing anymore. Writing content's not going to be a thing anymore. I don't really think any of that is true to a large extent. I think like anything else in technology, it's going to evolve, right?
Inside the World of B2B Tech Product Marketing with Aphrodite Brinsmead
20 Jun 2023
00:21:35
In this episode, Aphrodite Brinsmead, Director of Product Marketing at Duro, shares insights on marketing to engineers and the importance of community building and agility in marketing. She emphasizes that marketers need to be adaptable and creative in order to stand out in a noisy content environment and that community engagement is essential in creating accessible content.
Aphrodite Brinsmead is a Product Marketer at Duro, a Product Lifecycle Management platform for hardware engineers. With a background in technology vendors, analyst relations, and consulting, she brings extensive experience in messaging, market intelligence, customer communications, and sales enablement. Aphrodite's expertise also includes market forecasting, quantitative and qualitative analysis, and strategic product messaging. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market:
Duro's target market is hardware engineers who design and engineer rockets, robotics, consumer electronics, and IoT devices.
Marketing to engineers is challenging, but Duro is experimenting with various strategies, including videos and community building on platforms like Reddit and Quora.
Community building and facilitating customer interactions can give your brand credibility and get you involved in conversations that would be difficult to access as an outsider.
Marketing is a giant experiment that requires adaptability and creativity.
To stand out in today's content environment, marketers need to be agile, creative, and accessible.
Community engagement is crucial in creating accessible content that stands out.
Free and cheap online tools are available and can be useful for small businesses.
01:53 - “So our goal is really to make the lives of hardware engineers easier. So what that means is the people who are engineering and designing rockets, robotics, consumer electronics, IoT devices, the people behind the scenes who are there kind of figuring out how to make that work. And we want to help them manage their product data, so they don't spend hours and even like days in Excel spreadsheets, like copying data from one system to another, like checking things are up-to-date, like sending emails and waiting for responses.”
11:15 - “Our customers are like, pioneering ways to do things faster. And so the types of companies that we're working with want software that kind of fits with that same strategy. So when they're looking at us, they want something that's quick to deploy, they can make a decision quickly, and it's not gonna kind of disrupt their day-to-day process.”
17:58 - “That's definitely a challenge for marketers moving forward is how do you differentiate and how do you create trust in an environment where that's harder and harder to, to identify, right. Not only is authority hard to identify, but you have tons of folks out there putting out content that may or may not be fact-checked. So not only now do we determine did it come from the authentic channel where it sort of belongs, but is it accurate and then is it relevant? And then is it helping me, you know, move down the buyer information cycle?”
18:30 - “I mean, all of that is outrageously challenging in today's environment, and it's only going to get worse. The easier it gets to create content, the harder it's going to be to stand out with your content. Right. So Exactly. I think it's, I think that that stay agile and stay creative are important, important lessons, and they will be continuing moving forward.”
17:04 - Brian: “It's the accessibility that's a big part of that. And I think to your point that community engagement's a part of it for sure.” Aphrodite: “Yeah. And I suppose like one, one final thing that I've kind of been learning a lot is that when you don't have as many resources as some of the big kind of enterprise companies, you've gotta be creative.”
The Danger of Bad Outreach in B2B Services with NxtStep Consulting’s Sean Boyce
07 Jun 2023
00:19:07
In this episode, Founder of NxtStep Consulting, Sean Boyce, talks about how bad outreach in B2B services can negatively impact a company's brand, the importance of relationship-based selling and offering value to potential clients, and the challenges of cold email marketing and the benefits of consultative selling.
Sean Boyce has run his consultancy firm NxtStep Consulting for over 10 years but found he wasn’t able to grow his network effectively and efficiently through in-person marketing or lead generation services.
To solve this, Sean founded Podcast Chef, a full-service podcast management platform that helped him grow his network while making awesome content at the same time.
Seeing the effectiveness of podcasting at reaching new people, Sean opened it up to others, helping people to start a podcast and delegating the management from post-production to booking guests. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Referral Radio:
How counterproductive and damaging bad outreach in B2B services is to a company's brand.
The importance of nurturing relationships and offering value to potential clients.
Why aggressive sales tactics can decrease trust in a company's services.
How to approach potential clients to successfully build relationships.
Why cold email marketing may not be effective for high-touch B2B services.
04:02 - “Some of the automation out there, whether it's email or LinkedIn or whatever, right? You're punching in variables, you're grabbing a tiny email, whatever, and you're just same type of approach, like spamming a bunch of people hoping to get meetings or sales or whatever, and you're just not, then is that process really worth it? I don't know it, that's my take on it.”
07:57 - “The better approach is, like we say, approach them like they're people, right? Like just how and approach them potentially, like you might like to be approached, right? Do you want to know who these people are and what they do and how they do it before you decide whether or not to go in business together? More than likely many of us do, right?”
09:14 - “So, you know, you raise an important point. So, let's just as a hypothetical exercise, like imagine, imagine that it worked, right? Imagine you're selling a $50,000 service offering and through a single LinkedIn request for some spam sort of manufacturing company, you go, and you accept, and they write that check as the business owner, are you going to trust it? That's not what works. Like, it just doesn't work that way. If you think it works that way, then you're wrong.”
04:26 - “It's difficult because, you know, you'll see folks out there saying like, you know, just try, it's all gonna work out, right? You know, get your message out there and the right people hear it. But there's a huge difference between getting your message out there and showing up… That whole model is really challenging. To your point on the other side of it, you don't know that that's broken until you try it.”
Don't Break the Chain: The Power of Daily Podcasting with NxtStep Consulting’s Sean Boyce
30 May 2023
00:19:16
In this episode, NxtStep Consulting’s Founder, Sean Boyce, explains what makes a podcast effective, how anyone can start podcasting, and the value of consistency in the podcasting world.
Sean Boyce has run his consultancy firm NxtStep Consulting for over 10 years but found he wasn’t able to grow his network effectively and efficiently through in-person marketing or lead generation services.
To solve this, Sean founded Podcast Chef, a full-service podcast management platform that helped him grow his network while making awesome content at the same time.
Seeing the effectiveness of podcasting at reaching new people, Sean opened it up to others, helping people to start a podcast and delegating the management from post-production to booking guests. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Referral Radio:
The importance of having a daily routine.
How to start podcasting.
Why being authentic is so important.
Reasons why you shouldn’t try to impersonate someone or rely on a gimmick.
The value of having a targeted audience.
How many listeners you need to be successful at podcasting.
09:03 – “You don't have to put on all this extra… Go hit the market with who you are and what you want to say and the value you can bring to the table and it, the rest of it kind of takes care of itself. The, the other thing that I kind of picked up here along the way too is, it's real easy to get demoralized, right? Because you'll go, and you'll look at your statistics sometime after an episode published. You go, man, I really crushed that one. How come I've got three views on it? Right? What happened? Why aren't you people watching?”
12:37 – “They'll either try and put on a personality or they'll try a gimmick, right? They'll do the wacky morning DJ kind of thing where they've got the sound effects and all of the crazy fart noises or whatever it is. And it's like, look, that's gimmicks and gimmicks might get you an initial hit, but they're not going to get you the long-term play. Right? Be yourself because that you can't screw up.”
15:15 – “But like the, the reality is, you know, your tribe and the folks that you're trying to get a hold of and in front of are going to vibe with that. Yep. If you're doing it right, that's not to say don't be laser focused on your outcomes, don't be laser focused on your content, but you can't stay stuck, you know, how many times do you want to go on LinkedIn and scroll down the list and see somebody talking about the exact same, like your marketing's not targeted at the right people. Like, okay dude, it's like 80th post a week on this. Totally not the conversation. You know, be human first, and then we'll work on the business objectives kind of second and furthering them in.”
07:26 – “Get into a habit with it, but make that as easy as possible for you. And since I've dabbled with music a little bit too, one of the things they talk about there that makes that easier, just as an example, like if, let's say you want to play guitar, and it might be in a case in your closet or whatever, and you might be going through routine right now where you have to pull it out and set it all up in order to even get started, well get yourself a cheap stand and just put the guitar in the corner of the room. So it's almost always in. You can see it almost all day every day. And it's easy, all you got to do literally is just pick it up. You don't have to set it all up and get prepared in order to start practicing, make it easier on yourself. I think that's a key part of this too, is don't overthink it, don't overcomplicate it. You can always add to it. So I'm always of the nature of just start with the basics and then build from there.”
16:18 – “Give it a shot, man. I know it sounds counterintuitive that doing something like this on a daily basis would be a lot harder than weekly or different cadence, but you might end up finding out what has become basically a situation that myself and others who have gotten into this daily routine ultimately is now I freak out if I like, haven't checked that box on a certain day. Like, I get worried about that. So it's a key part of essentially me starting my day at this point, and I love it.”
The Key to Successful Networking with Ashley Assists’ Ashley Owens
26 May 2023
00:17:49
This episode, Ashley Assists’ Networking Concierge, Ashley Owens, talks about the key aspects of social media marketing, how you should respond to different connections to grow your audience, and the main characteristics you need to be successful at networking.
Ashley Owens is a Networking Concierge, where she works as a strategic partner to help create ideal networking situations and get people out of the wrong ones.
Ashley has a background in personal and executive assistance to two celebrities in NYC, and brings a wealth of experience in the world of networking and customer service to the table. Over the years, she has honed her skills in business analytics and account management, and now as the owner of a thriving business. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Referral Radio:
The key aspects of social media marketing.
How to respond to lurkers on social media.
How to balance prospects and personal connections.
The main traits you need to be successful at networking.
02:55 – “It's not just about spewing out your marketing stuff, it's about having conversations, and it's easy as a lurker to view it the wrong way. As a passive participant in social media, it's very easy to look at all the marketing and go, eh, this is a waste of my time and effort. But in the several interactions that you and I have had, and I've seen, over the past couple of years with you and the other folks that you're working with, in many ways, eh, she taught me that it's a lot more about having a conversation.”
04:19 – “If you're doing social media, I personally love to connect, to celebrate and to collaborate. So those are the three things that I do on every platform. If I'm connecting with somebody, I'm communicating with them directly. If I'm collaborating, I'm sharing their stuff, or we're doing something together, or I've had the privilege of getting this opportunity from somebody else and then being able to say, thank you so much to this person who provided me with that opportunity.”
10:53 – “That's part of really the way sales has evolved, right? It's now relationship-based selling, and the relationship's gotta be legit. And it's gotta be real. It can't be fake because then you get into the whole I got sold a bill of goods, or I got fleeced. And that's a horrible place for everybody.”
12:35 – “You do not have to know business who runs businesses, people, people run businesses. So if you know people, you know business. And so if you know, that came directly from you. So I use that line all of the time. Thank you. So you're welcome. And so to that point, you don't need to know business, you need to know people. So learn emotional intelligence, understand your own personality type.”
01:38 – “I speak at conferences on networking. I had a not suck at networking, and I had the pleasure and the privilege of also teaching at Temple University personal branding. So that is what I do. So I'm scooting around in different locations. I'll be going to another conference tomorrow morning. So it's the first couple days I'm in New Orleans. Tomorrow, I will be in Hollywood, California, and then I've got a couple weeks off, and then I get to go back on the circuit again. So yeah, it's been a whirlwind, kinda a couple days.
Marketing to Enterprise Manufacturers with Optessa’s John Buglino
18 May 2023
00:31:04
John Buglino, the Director of Sales and Marketing for Optessa, emphasizes the significance of identifying pain points, staying updated with industry trends, and leveraging data for marketing efforts while targeting operations leaders in the enterprise manufacturing realm. He additionally underscores the necessity of experimenting in marketing and using referral marketing and simplified data tracking to determine ROI. John also stresses the importance of networking, empathy, and adaptability, organizing events that bring together industry decision-makers for organic conversations.
John brings his experience in demand generation, lead generation, marketing automation, and social media marketing to Optessa.
He started out his career with New York Community Bancorp as a Marketing Assistant and later worked for iCIMS and the Hermetic Solutions Group in versatile roles driving new business and elevating the brand within their respective industries. John holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Business Administration with a concentration in marketing and advertising from Seton Hall University. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Referral Radio:
Optessa targets enterprise manufacturers, with a focus on discrete manufacturing and batch or process manufacturing.
They look for manufacturers with value, volume, and variety in their production, as the platform is designed to handle high variability.
Optessa's target market is operations leaders that are experiencing supply chain disruptions and dealing with their operations in Excel or spreadsheets.
They reach their target market through social media platforms, industry events, and networking with customers and prospects.
Testing should cover different channels, types of content, and external/internal factors.
It is crucial to set expectations, be consistent with messaging, and track results in CRM.
Referral marketing is an effective way to grow the business and leverage existing client networks.
04:26 – 04:53 “The best thing about the industry that we're in right now is also the worst. Supply chain issues and disruptions happening and changing seemingly daily, we are really facing and targeting operations leaders that are experiencing pain. Just help us understand your problem and let us know your data inputs or your inputs to have us help you. Right?”
04:54 – 05:09 “We're targeting operations leaders that really are trying to handle supply chain disruptions and also dealing with their operations in Excel or spreadsheets or 10 spreadsheets or a hundred spreadsheets, things like that.”
05:09 – 05:30 “So the targeting is really around telling our stories and really around keeping our finger on the pulse of what's happening in the world because there's so many different peaks and valleys and dips and changes that we have to make sure that we remain really top of mind and really understand what's happening in the industry.”
05:42 – 06:03 “Digital transformation, that's something that everyone always talks about, everyone always hears about, but no one really knows what that really means. So what we do is really target manufacturers going through a digital transformation journey and they could be at any number of steps within that transformation journey. So we support you, whether you're looking to go from pen and paper to now digitizing”
11:00 – 11:17 “I'm using the data as my north star to say here's why we're there or why we're not there. And if we are there, here's what we need to do to make sure that we maximize what we're getting out of it. And once we have that plan in place, it's everything that drives what you do from a marketing and sales standpoint.”
A good number of actors and media personalities have podcasts. They often have regular media exposure anyway, so why a podcast on top? The answer hit me like an obvious ton of bricks.
Private Podcasting: A New Way to Connect and Monetize with NxtStep Consulting’s Sean Boyce
09 May 2023
00:16:12
This episode, Founder of NxtStep Consulting, Sean Boyce, talks about the benefits of private podcasting, how it’s changing the way information is spread and democratized, and the different ways private podcasting can be monetized.
Sean Boyce has run his consultancy firm NxtStep Consulting for over 10 years but found he wasn’t able to grow his network effectively and efficiently through in-person marketing or lead generation services.
To solve this, Sean founded Podcast Chef, a full-service podcast management platform that helped him grow his network while making awesome content at the same time.
Seeing the effectiveness of podcasting at reaching new people, Sean opened it up to others, helping people to start a podcast and delegating the management from post-production to booking guests. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
The unique ways private podcasting can be used to disseminate information.
The benefits of private podcasting and why it’s more cost-effective.
How information is becoming democratized.
How to use private podcasting to improve talent management and HR.
2:46 – “One of the powerful aspects of podcasting that I love so much is being able to listen to the content when it's right. For me, everything else is kind of different than that, especially webinars. That's why I'm, I beat up webinars on this topic because I had received plenty of invites for them, especially over the course of the pandemic. It's like I can't wait to listen to that, but I have a meeting then or I can't go for some other reason. And sometimes you might catch a recording, sometimes you don't or whatever, but it all needs to kind of happen all at the same time and it has to happen real time and all that kind of stuff. Logistically that's a lot more complicated. What's great about podcasting is, you know, I, the people that are creating the content can create it when it's convenient for them and the people that wanna consume it can consume it when it's convenient for them."
5:45 - “Especially larger organizations, they don't get the ability to hear from a lot of their leaders a whole lot and, but most of them want to to some extent, right? As a better idea for the, for a piece in the machine. You know, what does that, what is that building towards? So to be able to understand that I think is good just for a company culture in general, but education as well, you know, and I used to work at the Vanguard group with the mutual fund giant many years ago. They would do the occasional presentation and they had some of the most impressive economists in the world and the presentations they would perform were just like remarkable in terms of the grander scale of the economies of the world and what the market is doing and all that kind of stuff. Any the leading or trailing indicators, those presentations were phenomenal, but they were fewer and farther in between for a lot of the same reasons I just mentioned, which makes logistically complicated things like webinars difficult to manage. So if instead you could share that information with your entire workforce and they're like tens of thousands strong, you can share a lot of really beneficial information which invests back into your people, helps educate them, helps them understand what it is you're doing as an organization via this mechanism now.”
8:03 - “If you think about how else you would get people that engaged in something that detailed to the extent of what might be tens of thousands of people that quickly good luck trying to beat this as a mechanism to distribute that information as effectively as it is, especially given how popular podcasting is. You know, at the moment, smartphones and phones that can run all these, those powerful apps and stuff like that are ubiquitous. So much of the infrastructure like underlying infrastructure is already there. All you need to do is convert your content into this format and then they can get it easily into their hands.”
10:40 - “Back 15, 20 years ago, one of the primary strategies for writing a book was write a bunch of blog articles and then staple them together, organize 'em a little bit and call it a book. Podcasting has that same potential, right? When we talk about the ability to get short content snippets in a conversational tone that you can then shuffle and order into collections and process out into multiple different types of content. So the peril that a lot of folks had was they, or the concern they had was, if I publish all these blog articles out on the net, they're gonna be publicly available and somebody's gonna take my good stuff and turn it into a book that's not theirs. With the private podcast, you get the benefit of that sort of connected privacy built in and you know, it's not first published, it's not out there in the real, you know, the rest of the world. And you get to then take that and leverage it any way you see fit to maybe create new content that you can publish publicly or, or monetize in some other way.”
11:45 - “Yeah, it could certainly be an easy way for people to get into podcasting that are a little bit more concerned about just releasing information publicly from zero. Right? I'll be one to tell you that for the most part, whatever it is you're working on, you probably need to shout it from the rooftops no matter how good it is in order to get anybody to pay attention. So yeah, yeah, I've got the scar tissue for understanding how hard it is in order to attract people as from an audience perspective to the content you're working on.”
In this episode, Sean and his guest discuss best practices for conducting successful podcast interviews, including the importance of asking open-ended questions and creating a comfortable environment for your guest. They also discuss the various roles an interviewer can take on during an interview and how to wrap up an episode effectively.
Key Points • Don't let one person dominate the conversation, emphasize your guest
• Be sure to ask open-ended questions that allow for thorough, yet concise, answers
• Create a comfortable environment for your guest to encourage the best performance
• Understand the different roles an interviewer can take on, such as voice of the listener or voice of the challenger
• End on a positive note, leaving your listener feeling glad they listened
Best Quotes 03:59 - 04:07 • "As people though, I think we are afraid in general of [silence] as it comes up. Like people are like, Hmm, I need to fill this silence with something."
05:48 - 05:54 • "If they're a nervous wreck, then they're just gonna be too uncomfortable to produce great content and have a good conversation."
13:03 - 13:06 • "Your listener's supposed to walk outta listening to a podcast glad that they did."
Private Podcasts: What They Are and How They Can Benefit Your Business
04 May 2023
00:15:09
Private podcasts are a new trend that can benefit businesses by providing private training, customer engagement, and monetization options. With platforms like Captivate, Podbean, and Transistor now offering support, private podcasts are becoming more accessible.
Private podcasts are shows that aren't available to the public
Use cases for private podcasts include training, quality control, and monetization
Private podcasts could be a great fit for businesses that are trying to strategically network
Content repurposing is a growing trend in podcasting
Private podcasting management platforms like Captivate, Podbean, and Transistor can help with distribution
Embark on an enthralling voyage through the career trajectory of Victoria Richardson, as she transitions from her humble beginnings in the dish machine industry to spearheading AI advancements in advertising. Navigate through the intricate landscape of marketing evolution, agency dynamics, and the delicate balance of empowering individuals in this captivating episode brimming with invaluable insights and a touch of glamour!
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
05:37 - We had gotten a few different companies. They were rebranding, they were repositioning in the market. We really didn't have anything to support salespeople. So they ended up hiring this agency to help them just generate leads so that they could do presentations and start to close clients. What we shortly found out was that really, that was the wrong model for us. We really weren't set up in a way to support internal salespeople. We kind of needed to take it a little slower. And so we dissolved that team. It took about a year after that
21:55 - I think it's important because things are obviously rapidly changing and especially with AI coming on, it's like, you know, the greatest and now there's other tools out there and there's other systems. And so just kind of being flexible and experimental in what you do, I think is a really important lesson for any marketer. Networking I think is a really great thing. Again, I don't subscribe to you can do everything alone or that you should do everything alone. I think building trusted networks and people that you can bounce ideas off of and people that you can leverage and refer to, I think is a really great thing to do as a marketer. And then the last thing I think is being resourced because, you know, as marketers, I think a lot of times we're relied upon to be creative and we're relied upon to come up with ideas and we're relied upon to execute those ideas.
03:03 - Victoria: And so I quit without having anything lined up because I was like, I know I can't do this. And so then I was in San Diego a few years ago and I got a call from a recruiter and it was for the job I'm in now. So he was like, is now a good time to talk? And I was like, yeah, I've only had two margaritas, it might as well. Brian: Yeah. Perfect! Victoria: Took an interview with him and then quickly like, you know, went through the interview process, got hired, and that was about two and a half years ago now, almost three years ago. And so I'm director of marketing at AI Advertising. So it's fun because I'm on the brand side, but I'm in an agency.
18:16 - But I think when it comes to like understanding what to work on, I had to have kind of a come to Jesus with myself because I want to do good at all of it. It's not possible again, to do good at everything when you have too many things to do. And so I really look at what are the projects on my plate and what is the impact that it's gonna have on the bottom line? Because I realized pretty quickly, like my social media, which is taking up hours of my week, is not actually bringing in any leads. It's not actually closing any business. It's actually not contributing to making money. And I'm spending a lot of time on it. And so that was something that I basically just dissolved because I was like at this point of where we are, we're not big enough.
12:37 - But, you know, I think it naturally would get there without the financing, just because I think more and more people are realizing you're gonna burn out if you're all things to all people. And it's a lot easier. You know, we were talking before the call, it's a lot easier to bring your skills together and amplify what you do, and it's so much more impactful with less stress because you're not trying to learn SEO and do SEO and also do social and also do, you know, all of these other things. It's like we understand businesses need all of these things. We also understand we can't be that for every single business.
Future of Marketing: Are You Ready for the AI Revolution? with Zebra Advertizing’s Rocco Baldassarre
02 May 2023
00:23:33
This episode, Founder and CEO of Zebra Advertizing Rocco Baldassarre talks about the rise of automation in marketing, how marketers can prepare for the changing world of marketing, and the different skills marketers need going into the future.
Rocco Baldassarre is the Founder and CEO of Zebra Advertisement, which is currently managing accounts on Google AdWords, Facebook, Twitter, and Microsoft AdCenter spending an average of $5M US per month.
Rocco is also a three-time Google Partners All-Star Winner, and was featured in Forbes 30 Under 30 for Marketing and Advertising (Class of 2018). Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
How to get featured in Forbes 30 Under 30 for Marketing and Advertising.
How marketing is changing and how to prepare for it.
What makes a marketing campaign successful.
The increase of automation in marketing.
The different skills marketers will need in the future.
How to stand out in an AI-created content environment.
2:23 - “Marketing is going to change and is changing, first things first we can look at it on our day to day if you look at Google adverts, Facebook advertising, Bing advertising everything is moving towards automation which is making most of the marketing positions redundant over time.”
4:51 - “The first companies that want for a business to be successful are Google, Facebook, and all the other platforms out there why do they want that because unless the clients make money they are not going to make money with advertising so they will do everything in their power to make it as easy as possible for any company to make profits.”
18:39 - “I lived in probably 15 countries prior moving to the US and I picked up a bit of everything, the most important thing I learned is you need to learn to have compassion both with your clients and with the people working for you the reason being we always forget that we are talking to other human beings and a client sometimes might be mean to you but he might be mean because he’s a human being he’s worried about something so always being compassionate brings you way better results than being aggressive or mean or anything else.”
19:33 - “Continuos improvement you need to always try to achieve to be the best at what you do you never need to settle because remember this is a world that is globalized and there is always going to be someone who is hungrier than you are.”
20:04 - “You need clear mind to do your job well so sacrificing little pleasures for work it seems like an effort worth doing because it’s going to help you grow your business but it actually clouds your mind the best ideas come to you when you’re having fun and relaxing.”
The VR Industry’s Unique Challenges with PIXO VR’s Rosina Feser
25 Apr 2023
00:25:02
This episode, PIXO VR’s Director of Sales & Marketing Rosina Feser talks about the unique challenges of marketing VR, the ICP for the VR industry, and the common skepticism business leaders have around VR products.
Rosina Feser has decades of experience transforming companies with proven growth strategies and is now working with PIXO VR to transform their customers' training programs with Virtual Reality.
With VR training, companies have experienced 43% reduction in workplace injury, 75% increase in learning retention, and trainees that are 4X more engaged with training that takes far less time than traditional training. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
How to combine VR with learning management systems.
The unique aspects of marketing VR.
Virtual reality conferences and trade shows.
The ideal customer persona for the VR industry.
Common skepticism around VR products.
How to build connections with large enterprise-level clients.
Using community engagement for further business development.
3:32 - “We take a very large responsibility for educating the prospect in fact our marketing vision statement is to create an educated prospect so whether you are on your journey to VR, you’re just starting and thinking about it to you’ve already implemented and you’re looking to scale to you’ve already scaled and now let’s see what the future holds and where we can go with that. We try to create content and information around every stage of that and be able to then support the sales team at every stage for every stage of that as well.”
4:31 - “I find the classic marketing strategies to be very effective because you’re still always just trying to get in front of people and get your message across to people and trying to find the channels to do that in so at the heart of it that’s always going to be the case.”
11:01 - “We had a decrease in the number of safety issues on the floor and correlation might not be causation but at the very least you can say I implemented this and this is what happened and say if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.”
16:41 - “Almost like a board once a quarter meet and have that community that will not only help each other some of the things that let's face it integrating a new technology into your workflow or into enterprise has it’s challenges and so we don’t hype that we face it head-on.”
21:06 - “A bunch of people are in the room, the business folks and the marketing people and they’re talking about dog food and they’re trying to figure out all the ways for the packaging and the price and this and that how are we going to promote it what are we going to say all this stuff and at the end the janitor’s on the side and says yea but the dogs don’t eat it so at the end of the day it’s like you can put all the packaging and prettiness and everything you want if people don’t want it they don’t want it.”
Maximizing Direct Mail Response Rates with DirectMail2.0’s Brad Kugler
18 Apr 2023
00:29:15
In this episode, CEO of DirectMail2.0 Brad Kugler talks about why direct mail is more effective than digital mail, which industries direct mail works best, and how companies can improve their direct mail response rate.
Brad Kugler is the CEO of DirectMail2.0, a marketing-based solution designed to track clients' direct mail campaigns and enhance overall results through omnichannel marketing.
Brad has a passion for leading and growing businesses, helping others, tinkering with new technology, and meeting creative/industrious people. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
What industries direct mail works for.
How to improve direct mail response.
Why direct mail is more effective than digital mail.
The challenges of using direct mail in B2B industries.
How to connect with high-ranking people.
How to leverage digital mail advertising.
The best way to use webinars to reach new prospects.
6:14 - “If you’re selling pizzas for 20 bucks you’re not going to go spend a dollar on everybody’s mailbox in the neighborhood there isn’t going to be an ROI. Now if you’re a financial services company selling rollovers on 401Ks or a realtor trying to get listings in a certain neighborhood or you’re an HVAC company that needs to replace an air conditioner or a roof every 10 years that’s anywhere from 5 to 20 thousand dollars there’s the ROI. So people who want to do direct mail I’d have to say if your lifetime customer value or your first couple of invoices are over a thousand dollars then direct mail should be considered, why would it be considered it is more effective than hundreds of emails, it’s something you hold in your hand, even if you stand over the garbage and you ditch the things that tactical sensation is more memorable than the 10 thousand digital messages that most people get a day.”
8:07 - “One of our quote-unquote secret weapons is I need to talk to a decision maker in a company and what we do we research those decision makers on LinkedIn or their social media if it’s possible. We find out oh they went to Miami University in Miami they’ve got to be a Hurricane fan or something from down there so we’ll get them a college mug or a shirt or something to get their attention, sure it’s 20 bucks but you know what our response rate is very high because we’ve hyper-personalized that piece of mail to that individual and we’ve bribed them with a little gift too.”
18:12 - “Persistence, there’s a fine line between giving up too soon and persisting too long on a dead end.“
Mastering SaaS Marketing with Ten Speed’s Nate Turner
14 Apr 2023
00:31:54
This episode, Co-Founder of Ten Speed Nate Turner talks about the unique aspects of marketing for a SaaS company, the difference between venture-backed and bootstrapped marketing, and the different forms of online marketing.
Nate Turner spent a decade scaling Sprout Social from $100k to $100m in ARR (and IPO) and held fractional leadership roles with companies like Help Scout, Zylo, Popular Pays, and Hologram.
In 2019, Nate left his role at Sprout Social to focus on consulting and fractional growth roles, and in 2020 Co-Founded Ten Speed, a content optimization agency focused on helping companies accelerate their organic growth via quality content. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
How marketing is different for SaaS companies.
How margins inform marketing.
The difference between venture-backed and bootstrapped marketing.
27:13 - “A lot of marketers can get distracted with their craft or measuring specifically what they're doing which in the past has led to well look at all the MQLs we’ve generated or look at all the social followers we’ve gained and not that those things are bad but as the end goal they're bad so I think really understanding revenue and some of the other core company metrics and be able to speak to how your work impacts that and if you don’t know then figuring that out.”
27:59 - “I don’t think you can ever have too much time spent or effort around understanding your customer and your target audience and what matters to them and how your product actually helps solves their pain points or make their life easier because I think we can tend to make assumptions and Founders are great at talking to customers in the first year but then I think over time that can fade from the company culture.”
Unlocking Niche Opportunities in the Podcast Space
07 Apr 2023
00:19:09
This episode provides helpful tips on how to start a podcast related to sales and selling. It covers strategies for finding a unique niche, how to niche down further, and advice on creating an engaging podcast title. It emphasizes the importance of narrowing down your search criteria to target your ideal customer persona and using search engines to find the best podcasts to compete with. Finally, it provides tips on making your podcast stand out and get to the top of the list.
Sean Boyce has run his consultancy firm NxtStep Consulting for over 10 years but found he couldn’t grow his network effectively and efficiently through in-person marketing or lead generation services.
To solve this Sean founded Podcast Chef, a full-service podcast management platform that helped him grow his network while making awesome content at the same time.
Seeing the effectiveness of podcasting at reaching new people, Sean opened it up to others, helping people to start a podcast and delegating the management from post-production to booking guests. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
Build the podcast around the challenges, complaints, and concerns of your ideal candidate
Find a title that is relevant and unique
Incorporate your ICP into your search criteria
Adjust podcast over time to optimize content
Leverage podcasting to take the business to the next level
How I Build Successful Websites with Local SEO Guide’s Andrew Shotland
04 Apr 2023
00:34:37
This episode, Local SEO Guide’s CEO Andrew Shotland talks about the different ways to get clients without marketing, how he built his credibility online, and the most important aspects of a successful website.
Andrew Shotland has been working in SEO for over 15 years and is the CEO of LocalSEOGuide.com, where he helps large and small businesses with their Search Engine Optimization marketing. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
How to become an SEO consultant.
Ways to get clients without marketing.
How to build credibility online.
The most important aspects of a website.
Why companies change the SEO agency they work with.
The importance of being transparent with your clients.
1:36 - “One day two guys flew down from Seattle to have lunch with me and I’m like who flys from Seattle to have lunch with me I mean I’m a great lunch companion but they wanted to pay me 90 thousand dollars to do SEO for them, this is my first year as a consultant and buy lunch and pick up the cheque and I’m like I’m curious guys I have to ask why me well you ranked number one for local SEO we figured you know what your doing so already that domain purchase paid off instantly.”
4:07 - “We at one point we’re probably the fastest growing site or one of the fastest growing sites in the world that caught the attention of Google. Google gave us the first partnership to feed reviews into Google Maps and that caught the attention of Sequoia Capital and SoftBank Capital who gave us a few million bucks to get big and we thought we were going to be billionaires and we hired a bunch of people and someone wanted to redesign the website because it looked like Craigslist and you can’t have a site that looks like Craigslist that’s not successful and I didn’t know what I didn’t know about technical SEO we redesigned the website and the first day we launched it we lost all of our organic traffic because of a technical SEO problem which I could identify in a heartbeat but at the time I had no clue.”
23:02 - “About 20 percent of our new clients either just fired an SEO agency or are currently working with one they’re unhappy with and usually they’re unhappy with it because there's no transparency, the results aren’t good but mostly what we hear is I don’t know what they’re doing or I think they’re just bullshitting me.”
29:22 - “I worked for a guy once he was a weird dude but a great salesman and he did phone sales back when phone was all it is and he figured out every time someone hung up on him he made 25 cents and so 25 cents for every no I think is a really great formula for pretty much everything in life because you’re going to meet a lot of no’s and who cares that’s just one more thing on the path to getting to a yes and I think that’s for everything, not just sales.”
Unpacking the What Now Question, Understanding Referrals and Evaluating Buyer Needs
30 Mar 2023
00:17:43
This episode provides advice on evaluating the source of a referral, understanding the buyer's needs, and identifying key indicators of a potential sale. It also looks at how to ask the right questions to gain an understanding of the buyer's needs and use the buyer's language to establish a baseline understanding. By following these steps, businesses can ensure they engage in meaningful conversations and make the most of referral opportunities.
Sean Boyce has run his consultancy firm NxtStep Consulting for over 10 years but found he wasn’t able to grow his network effectively and efficiently through in-person marketing or lead generation services.
To solve this Sean founded Podcast Chef, a full-service podcast management platform that helped him grow his network while making awesome content at the same time.
Seeing the effectiveness of podcasting at reaching new people, Sean opened it up to others, helping people to start a podcast and delegating the management from post-production to booking guests. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
Evaluate the source of a referral to understand its accuracy
Look for indicators that the buyer is in need of your product or service
Use the buyer's lingo to establish a baseline understanding
01:02 - “I think you have to evaluate where it comes from because it could be someone new in your network, it could be somebody that you have a long relationship with. So as you better understand the source, you may also better understand the accuracy because of where it's coming from and how well they know what you do.”
03:27 - ”If they understand the specialized vocabulary that your business represents or that your industry you're working in, if they don't understand the specialized vocabulary, chances are you have to do a ton of buyer education, which means they're earlier in their life cycle in terms of even the referral.”
07:07 - “Problem is, there could be multiple variables in the beginning, and in this case, there are because they're selling it to multiple different verticals and industries and all these other combinations. So $100 to one industry is not necessarily $100 to the other, especially given size and phase and all that kind of stuff of the potential clients.”
09:13 - “It's very much like you've got a medical symptom and the doctor gives you Medicine A, and you go, okay, well, I tried Medicine A. It didn't work. But that's because I only gave the doctor this much information on the symptoms I had, or this is the way I viewed the problem. Whereas a good doctor is going to ask you enough diagnostic questions to understand the nature of the underlying illness, right? They're not going to stop with like, oh, it looks like you're having an allergic reaction. It's going to be like, so what did you do yesterday?”
Growing Startups From First Customer to Scaling Strategies with WebsiteZ’s Gideon Rubin
28 Mar 2023
00:31:49
This episode, Serial Entrepreneur and Startup Founder Gideon Rubin talks about how most startups get their first customers, the ways startups change as they grow, and the necessary skill sets for starting a company versus scaling a company.
Gideon Rubin is a Serial Entrepreneur and Startup Founder who focuses on building organizations that change people's lives. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
How to evaluate the potential of a startup.
How most startups get their first customers.
The ways startups change as they grow.
The keys to product-led growth.
The challenges of leveraging initial user bases to build social credibility.
Ways to discover important product features for the mass market.
The skill sets required for starting a company versus scaling a company.
Indicators that a company needs to restructure or find outside capital.
1:32 - “At the end of the day it does come down to how do you get those first couple of customers it depends on the business and the type of business but almost always the first handful of customers are from direct outreach or direct relationships oftentimes that would drove me to start the business to begin with was someone telling me they had a pain or someone telling me about an opportunity and then me going back to those people and saying hey if we solved it this way would that be interesting to you?”
8:21 - “A lot of the things that the early customers want or are asking about is not necessarily applicable to the mass market so it’s either customization or a feature that is really important to them but maybe the mass market doesn't need that or are unique to the business processes of that early customer so that’s where you have to have that second track thinking in terms of how does this apply across a broader audience we honestly use focus groups oftentimes.”
22:25 - “There’s this concept called vanity metrics, things like how many website visitors did I get? That may be interesting, may be valuable, maybe not valuable depending on your business because they might not be the right visitors.”
From Professional Actor to Freelance Journalist to Digital Marketing Specialist with Alter New Media’s Nadya Rousseau
21 Mar 2023
00:25:06
In this episode, the Founder and CEO of Alter New Media Nadya Rousseau talks about how she transitioned from freelance writer to marketing strategist, how scaling up affects the nature of work you take on, and how ChatGPT and AI is disrupting the marketing world.
Nadya Rousseau has worked with clients ranging from startups to nationally recognized law firms, nonprofits, entertainers, and more.
In late 2016, Nadya founded a purpose-forward marketing and media company, Alter New Media. The agency has its own influencer board, representing influencers worldwide.
Nadya also has a best-selling Instagram growth and management service, Instagram Rockstar, that, since its launch on the "Fiverr PRO" platform in late 2017, has serviced over 600 customers.
Her opinions on business, entrepreneurship, and marketing have been featured in Forbes, American Express Open Forum, Voyage LA, and Honeysuckle Magazine, and in 2022, Nadya was invited to join the Forbes Agency Council. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
How to transition from freelance writer to marketing strategist.
Building a team through Fiverr.
Creating an Instagram growth service.
How to evaluate if an opportunity is right for you.
How to know what work opportunities to decline.
How scaling up affects the nature of work you take on.
5:59 - “It was a time where a lot of bots services were gaining popularity obviously not the case anymore because the algorithm has caught up with those third party applications but I wasn’t using bots I was doing it all organic and so that service took off and that’s how I started getting a presence on the Fiverr marketplace out of thousands of sellers because I was one of the newbie pros and I was getting courted and supported and my presence grew.”
10:57 - “There’s a lot of weird stuff and having been in LA for almost 14 years I have seen and dealt with it all I know I shouldn’t have said yes to a lot of things back in the day but there are stories I can tell my grandchildren.”
18:24 - “I feel like a lot of people are freaking out about AI, I love it I feel like it is a tool for us to do more and be more efficient and be more creative because we have less time that would be spent on the tedious research stuff if we have tools like ChatGPT helping us out, I always tell people I’m talking to about this the research only goes as far as 2021 you’re not going to get the most newsworthy or contemporary outcomes but you can definitely use it to put together very straightforward SOPs or at least utilize that more as a template.”
21:33 - “Give more than you desire to take back, being a giver and extending support to others goes so far and no don’t just do it for the sake of oh if I give I better get back you’re not always going to get back but it is a good thing to be out there doing Mitzvahs in the world and I’m of the strong belief that the more you do that yes the more the universe will recognize that.”
22:04 - “Continue to self-educate all the time, you always want to be informed of the latest trends in your industry, the movers and shakers in your industry and just growing your own unique perspectives on these updates and changes, like you mention with AI you want to have your own unique spin of what’s happening with that, don’t just regurgitate other's information AI will do that for you.”
Mastering Long Sales Cycles with runZero’s VP of Worldwide Sales Jay Wallace
15 Mar 2023
00:24:53
This episode, runZero’s VP of Worldwide Sales Jay Wallace talks about how to approach complex sales cycles with long lead times, the techniques for relationship-based selling, and how to build credibility in your relationships.
Jay Wallace has been working in sales for almost a decade and has built successful sales teams from the ground up.
Jay is currently the VP of Worldwide Sales for runZero where he leads all things revenue creation and retention. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
The benefits of working as one of the first employees for a startup.
How to approach sales cycles with long lead times.
3:30 - “I love cyber security I think that it’s a community, for me it’s a calling I love being involved, I love hearing all the crazy stories you hear out in the world about people doing crazy things on the internet and that’s always drawn me into the cyber security space.”
5:10 - “It wasn’t so much sales that caught my attention it was business and I was really interested in the inner workings in how businesses work and what they care about but I think if you’re really truly interested in business you’ve got to be interested in sales because that’s the lifeblood of any business that’s what makes the operations run keeps the lights on.”
5:49 - “You’re cold calling my first fully commissioned gig had no base salary really putting it all on the line, knocking in doors asking strangers can I refinance your mortgage that was the short of it or selling financial products like life insurance or financial plans not to mention not the easiest thing to do in a global recession so 2008 2009 were not my best years in terms of earnings but they were certainly my best year in terms of learnings, I learned a lot about myself and how much I loved sales and I loved meeting somebody completely brand new they don’t have any idea about what you have most of the time their standoffish and they don’t want to talk to you anyway so there’s something masterful and artful about being able to get someone to warm up to you have them open their eyes to the solution that your selling and eventually say yes this will actually help me out.”
9:02 - “The worst thing that can happen to you as a seller is you’ve got a mid 6 figure or low seven-figure deal on the line and you’re single-threaded, so your champion decides to leave the company, your champion decides to take a 3-week vacation, we sell to about 50 countries today so varying degrees of everybodys not like Americans where we live to work and it’s like hey I’m going on vacation but here’s my cell here’s a hair follicle in case you need to trace me by DNA, here’s how you can find me at any waking moment don’t worry a lot of people actually take vacation out there in the world.
E-Comm to Service: William Gasner's Marketing Masterclass
19 Mar 2024
00:34:30
Dive into William Gasner's entrepreneurial journey from farmer's market beginnings to e-commerce success and launching Stack Influence — a platform connecting brands with micro-influencers. Discover the tactics and lessons learned from scaling businesses to seven figures, the transition between product and service industries, and the art of nurturing a robust influencer marketplace.
Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.
15:05 - William: So it's enabled me to not only learn new tactics about e-commerce and best ways to use it, but also to create a business that can have a potential to not only help hundreds of thousands of e-commerce brands, ideally millions, but our goal is to actually have a billion social media users on the platform to be promoting every day. Brian: That's awesome. So, and you get to stay in the e-commerce space by proxy at that point, which is nice.
10:24 - So the cool thing about influencer marketing is you get this kind of, it's a unique marketing tactic in the world of all of these different ways to get your product out there in the sense that it gives you more bang for your buck and more value across different sectors. So take just online advertising in general, like running an ad on Facebook, right? Your, only really return there is a sale, which at the end of the day is valuable. And that's what we all want. Is like get your product out there and people buy it money and money out. However, that is the same thing with influencer marketing, right? People are gonna be promoting your product and that you're gonna pay them X amount of money and then that's going to result ideally in eCommerce sales. However, on top of that, you're not just getting a sale, they're getting a piece of content.
11:21 - All of those things actually build your brand. And that can be sometimes hard to equate exact value to it, but I personally think it's kind of an invaluable thing. It's like what is the value of having a website in general, right? It's like, a good brand or a good logo. It's like this creates this image of who you are, who's using your product and that can really take you to the next level.
24:59 - Like people have a bad taste in their mouth from some people perceive influencers as almost sellouts where we perceive them as again, a passion promoter, someone promoting something that they care about because they're willing to put in a bunch of effort for a product themself because it fits with what they love, what they want to share. And there's nothing better and more authentic and more trustworthy than that type of advocacy. It's again, word-of-mouth marketing. It's like who do you trust most in your life when you're going to buy something? It's someone who's a kind of an expert in that industry, right?
22:47 - In the same way as also certain levels to content quality and curation. So what has blown up in the space, which is besides the promotion itself, is what people call UGC “user-generated content” specifically in the world of advertising. So creating a video post that's a full testimonial, right? There are levels to helping the creator actually make that post more valuable. Editing it, adding captions, adding animations. And those things where there can be profit sharing involved using our technology and monetizing and even charging. There's other platforms, and this is something we have discussed
Which Platform is the Best for Digital Shorts (It’s Not TikTok!) with Podcast Chef’s Sean Boyce
07 Mar 2023
00:17:46
In this episode, the Founder of NxtStep Consulting Sean Boyce talks about the rise of digital shorts, how digital short performance differs across different platforms, and the best ways to use shorts to develop your business.
Sean Boyce has run his consultancy firm NxtStep Consulting for over 10 years but found he wasn’t able to grow his network effectively and efficiently through in-person marketing or lead generation services.
To solve this Sean founded Podcast Chef, a full-service podcast management platform that helped him grow his network while making awesome content at the same time.
Seeing the effectiveness of podcasting at reaching new people, Sean opened it up to others, helping people to start a podcast and delegating the management from post-production to booking guests. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
The rise of digital shorts.
How digital short performance differs on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, and LinkedIn.
The unique audience you can access on LinkedIn.
How audiences change on different platforms.
How to use shorts to develop business.
The importance of likes translating into subscribers.
04:30 - “There are places where it’s safe at work to hang out on social and LinkedIn is typically one of them most corporates don't log LinkedIn which means you get access to some of those mid-market B2B spaces where you wouldn't necessarily see them on Instagram in the day.”
05:14 - “There are certain videos that perform really well on different platforms like for some reason Facebook has figured out that I like how-to videos so Ill sit there and watch people make furniture or remodel houses or whatever and Facebook gets it, I don’t see that content on any of the other platforms because I think I consume different stuff on different spaces and I think that’s an important part of the conversation.
11:09- “Different content serves different purposes, so without that long-form content without that deeper dive you don't drive subscribers so now the next natural question is why are subscribers important well it gives you the chance to regularly communicate with folks that are in your ideal target market so when we’re trying to grow subscribers it’s not just fake internet points or Shrute bucks or dogecoin it is quite literally to get people that you can communicate with on a regular basis which starts a relationship and in podcast core take on the way you sell in the modern market it is you do it through relationship development you do relationship-based selling.”
12:35 - “How to leverage shorts, it’s if you’re going to make this a part of your everyday routine, you're going to invest in it as part of your content marketing strategy the way he recommends doing it is interestingly enough very similar to basically the service we offer at Podcast Chef which was always good to hear because we're always trying to innovate for our clients and it turns out other people think there's value there too in terms of that strategy but it’s basically taking that longer form content, really focusing there and then chopping that longer form content up into shorter pieces of content to then promote that longer form content.”
Which Digital Marketing Metrics you should be Measuring with Agency Bell’s Jordan Bell
28 Feb 2023
00:31:14
In this episode, the CEO of Agency Bell Jordan Bell talks about which metrics matter the most in digital marketing, how to identify the right metrics to measure, and how much time you should spend crafting a story around metrics.
Jordan Bell is regularly sought as an advisor, consultant, speaker, educator, and expert contributor in the areas of digital marketing, technology, automation, and startup management.
Jordan is the CEO of Agency Bell, a Digital Advertising Agency that leverages Machine Learning to build competitive advantages for high-budget digital brands.
He has founded and launched several successful companies, consulted or advised startups in numerous industries, and managed hundreds of millions of dollars in digital campaigns for Fortune-level companies. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
How to get started in digital advertising.
Ways to calculate a lead's value.
The importance of metrics in digital marketing.
How to identify the right metrics to measure.
The metrics that matter the most in digital marketing.
How much time you should spend crafting a story around metrics.
12:10 - “If I could wave a magic wand I would want the metrics to be cost per new customer, customer acquisition cost, CPAs, the cost per acquisition however we say the conversion cost or CPA in advertising firms, so in the case of a law firm I’ll use that example that’s their signed CPA because they have to send a retainer agreement in plaintiff law and then the person has to sign that agreement and that becomes when we can associate a dollar amount with that so their signed CPA or signed acquisition cost, they might have a target of 2000 dollars on a case that they might make 10 to 20 thousand dollars on but they have to take that case the next 2 years and all the operation cost of all that, so the first thing that matters, the only metric perhaps that matters is first going to be the profitability metric which is cost per signed case, cost per customer.”
21:51 - “We want to draw the connections, we want to believe that the answers will draw connections that aren't there because we’re so obsessed with getting the win, especially agencies and freelance marketers and all that we want the win so there's a level of responsibility there it’s like a scientist who thinks they've discovered this amazing cure to something but the more they dig the more it’s going to fall apart those situations that moral compass scientists in medicine all that stuff is generally really good here, still has peer-reviewed stuff but the temptation is there to get the win and advertising doesn’t have a peer review regulation system, and so that’s if I were to say that’s the biggest dangers, understanding how to look at data and how it connects to business metrics is one of the biggest opportunities but we’re so far behind as an industry on that.”
24:08 - “Be absolutely unafraid of being wrong as often as possible, I have to not give any care about being wrong so that the moment that I discover that I don't know what I thought I knew or there’s an opportunity where someone is speaking and I realize that I can learn a lot from them that I shut up and I just sponge, keep talking what can I do for you I don’t care how far I get in business or in life there is always going to be someone or many people who as soon as I’m in the room with them I realize this person I admire them I want to learn from them and I don’t need to prove that I'm right I don't need my ego in the equation I’m going straight down into the humblest spot because that is how we learn the fastest.”
27:12 - “Working on ourselves is over any skill is the best investment, I didn’t always have the opportunity to I was flat out broke when I moved to California and struggled for a long time but when I was able to I found ways to get coaching or read things about coaching that were professional personal, understanding ourselves, I’m neurodiverse so the more I understood myself through things like Myers-Brigs, Strengths finder and also worked with coaches being not afraid of working with a therapist, guys should find a great therapist. Those create massive foundation as we’re adults especially to heal trauma, unpack the things that are difficult, and set a foundation for us to have that capacity to reach potential whatever that is for us because the weight from the things we struggle with and don't realize we struggle with prevents us from achieving and living the way that we want to live.“
Sales Tricks - The Scumbag Tactics That Just Don’t Work with Podcast Chef’s Sean Boyce
21 Feb 2023
00:26:20
In this episode, the Founder of NxtStep Consulting Sean Boyce talks about the benefits of relationship selling, why you should always lead with value and the common sales tricks that just don’t work.
Sean Boyce has run his consultancy firm NxtStep Consulting for over 10 years but found he wasn’t able to grow his network effectively and efficiently through in-person marketing or lead generation services.
To solve this Sean founded Podcast Chef, a full-service podcast management platform that helped him grow his network while making awesome content at the same time.
Seeing the effectiveness of podcasting at reaching new people, Sean opened it up to others, helping people to start a podcast and delegating the management from post-production to booking guests. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of The Consulting Trap:
The problems with cold outreach on LinkedIn.
Why some marketing techniques can have a negative impact on a business.
The problems with taking a ‘hard sell’ marketing approach.
Why you should always lead with value.
What you can offer prospects before giving them the purchasing pitch.
01:17 - “A lot of data points to people with kind of personalities that are good at listening as opposed to just speaking or talking or vomiting stuff all over people do a lot better in sales than those that are just trying to push some type of an agenda so I think the approach that most people take is wrong and I’ve got plenty examples of that.”
03:02 - “You know those guys when you’re walking around the city any major metro you’re walking around and there is dudes handing out the little flyer thing for the local mattress place and you're like no man I was on my way to get coffee but now that I've got this flyer in my hands I’m carrying a mattress home like this is the answer, on my back. I think this is where a lot of folks get it wrong and we’ve talked about random acts of marketing in the past or random acts of salesmanship and the short answer is people choose to do business with people they like know or trust and the moment you start doing stuff like this you erode your trust factor immediately.”
06:55 - “Teslas they were trying to innovate in the dealership space and how the representatives for their brand at the actual retail locations the so-called dealerships how they were responding to people who came in versus how a typical car dealership would respond and instead of immediately trying to push what it is that they wanted to sell at that given moment to whoever walked in the doors their response was along the lines of what brings you in today, how can I help? Are you just browsing or whatever I’m here to help if you need my help great, if you don’t have fun, enjoy the cars experience it, whatever just immediately lowers the pressure for everyone involved.”
12:11 - “As a sales professional you have to move past the features and benefits conversation, they tell you in marketing 101 it’s all features and benefits and frankly features and benefits are the last thing that's important if you're talking about features, and benefits you're talking about the wrong part of the horse, and this is the old story of Ford. Ford started really taking off when they stopped selling cars and started selling freedom, the same thing is true.”
18:27 - “In a world where digital shorts are the thing that is blown up, what are you missing about the keyword in that phrase, short. What you think that a longer message is going to get me a higher response rate, it’s really not necessary we live in a bite-sized world, attention spans are measured in nanoseconds everybody’s busy all the time, especially after the pandemic, so for the love of everything condense it, shorten it up, keep it short and sweet, saves you time, saves them time, get right to the point.”