In this podcast, we look back at the past 99 episodes of the GPS Training podcast.
The first ever GPS Training Podcast went out on Sept 15th 2017 – 7 years ago
I had been on holiday that summer and first learnt about Podcasts and had got slightly ‘hooked’ on them, or one particular – Big Ideas for Small Business, which incidentally I was interviewed for 2 years later.
I loved the format of the podcast, long-form, which you invested in.
I remember the first ever day I pitched the idea at one of our staff meetings I was met by some interesting ‘blank stares.
Here it is –
In the first-ever GPS Training Podcast the lead piece was on the ‘all-new’ Sat Map Active 20 – 2 months on.
Quite ironic as SatMap went out of business in 2022, 5 years later
The Podcast has really gone through x 3 eras/ formats
Podcast 1 (2017) – 19 (2019) – with Andy and other guests
Streamed live on Facebook
Podcast 19 – 59 (Sept 2021) with Ian and other guests
Then Andy came back from then on to the present day
Podcast 60 to current day
Monthly except for
Podcast 33 (March 2020) onwards - Covid, we went to fortnightly podcasts
Recorded these at 7.45 in the morning then I could answer any calls in the office, as all the other staff were furloughed
It hopefully kept you all sane, I know it certainly did that with us – kept us sane – very hard time personally, working on my own and being upbeat on a podcast not knowing what was around the corner on the business front
As things started to get a little more ‘normal’ we had our 50th Podcast (March 2021) we had the whole team from GPS Training at the time on the podcast and we answered random questions, picked out of a hat.
Questions that are in the hat
If you could go anywhere in the world, where would that be and why?
If you were going off today on a 15 mile walk what GPS unit would you take with you?
If you could make one thing change in this business overnight (no budget), what would it be?
AA batteries or built-in battery in a GPS unit?
Favorite workday of the week and why?
Favorite course location?
Favorite walk?
What one sneaky thing do you keep in your rucksack?
I know a number of you that I have spoken to over the years have gone all the way back to number 1 and listened to them all.
I am massively impressed, well done to you guys and girls!
Some of my - Highpoints –
I was first introduced to the Spine Race by Paul Freeman –
Podcast 31, back in 2020 – Spoke to Paul Freeman before he undertook the Spine Challenger south – I knew nothing about this race before I interviewing him
Quite ironic now as the Spine Race became such a large part of both mine and Andy’s life over the past number of years.
I remember doing a bit research before that interview and learning about the spine Race for the first time, all the different race options.
After I interviewed Paul again, after he had finished the race, I remember thinking to myself, I would love to do that one day and x 3 years later I finished the 108 mile spine challenger south, the race Paul had done.
Then the following year, this year, the 160 mile Spine Challenger North.
I am often humbled, when speaking to these people, how often the person I am speaking to really opens up and often you can see tears running down their faces as they share their thoughts and emotions with you.
Speaking about people who have done truly epic challenges my mind cannot get past – Duncan Hutchinson
On the 15th GPS Training podcast I interviewed Duncan, who had built his own rowing boat and then rowed across the Atlantic.
I had interviewed him again, but speaking to him in October 2018 after he had got so near to completing this adventure.
If you have not listened to this, he explains his dramatic rescue just off the coast of Ireland (699 miles away), the 100th day of his cross Atlantic crossing.
Duncan had borrowed a Garmin inReach messenger from u...
GPS Training Podcast – number 99 – 2
Thursday, August 8, 2024 • Duration
In the second of our x 4 Podcasts for August, we look back at the past 10 years of GPS Training.
Shepherds Walks bought GPS Training in 2014
Bought GPS Training from Peter Judd, Peter had his own business and retired to the Lake District.
He worked for George Fishers in Keswick and could see a space in the market for GPS Training.
The first ever GPS Training course was in Mungrisdale, Lake District.
First x 5 years very hard but we quickly learnt that a more informed customer made life a lot easier for us
The first GPS training Podcast came about in September 2017
In 2016 we got rid of our retail premises and went solely online, this was in the old Tourist Information Centre in Rothbury when we finally closed down the retail premises.
We set up Outdoor GPS Shop in Sept 2019, which is the 'budget' website for GPS units.
GPS training offers a post-sale training and support package whereas Outdoor GPS sells just on price.
March 2020 - Covid - this had a very large effect on the business. It was a real wake-up call.
We managed to fast-track a number of plans, as we needed to get our sales up very quickly.
In 2021 I created our first ever 'walk and talk' video for YouTube, to showcase to potential customers the final navigational experience you get on a GPS unit.
April 2023 - Moved into our current premises, look at our build here.
Many tahnks for all your support, not only from myself but from all the team here at GPS Training.
GPS Training Podcast – number 91
Friday, December 1, 2023 • Duration
The all-new eTrex solar and live tracking on the Motorola Defy - Satellite Link
In this month’s podcast –
1. After we discussed the Garmin eTrex SE last month Garmin released the eTrex solar last month, the first solar powered GPS unit
2. Nationwide GPS courses for 2024
3. Live tracking – Motorola Defy – Satellite link – Beta resting and our thoughts
4. Al Pepper – our first ‘Ambassador’
5. We then have Andy’s top tips
1. Garmin eTrex solar
After we have had the Garmin inReach SE for a 8 months it is great to see this updated version, the first-ever Outdoor GPS unit which has a solar panel - Garmin eTrex Solar
Solar Charging -With the addition of solar charging also gives us the ability to now have a built in lithium battery, which will give you unlimited battery life in sunny conditions (75,000 lux) or upto 100 hours when using GNSS and multi-band tracking.
Multiband satellite network, new addition for the Garmin eTrex Solar - This all new multi-band GPS gives you access to multiple frequencies sent by navigation satellites which gives you improved positional accuracy.
Live Geocaching on the Garmin eTrex Solar – With the Garmin eTrex Solar you now get automatic cache updates from Geocaching live, including descriptions, logs and hints. When connected to the Garmin Explore app, each find will upload to your geocaching.com profile.
Garmin Explore app alongside the Garmin eTrex Solar - You can connect the Garmin eTrex Solar to the Garmin Explore app, once connected you can undertake wireless software updates, get access to cloud storage, plan trips, get smart notifications and access additional mapping.
Live weather - When connected to the Garmin Explore app you can get real-time forecast information, so you're aware of any changing conditions.
To read an indepth review on the Garmin eTrex Solar go to GpsTraining.co.uk > Product Reviews > Unboxing and first review
2. Nationwide GPS courses - 2024
All our course dates for next year are now online
Our course prices go up in price on Friday 22nd December – so please get yourself booked on before then.
If you want to find out more about our GPS courses please go to our website > GpsTraining.co.uk > GPS Training Course
3. Live tracking – Motorola Defy -
Andy has been Beta testing the new live tracking feature for the Motorola Defy – satellite link
It has been on the Bullit app for some time now, but it does not function
Watch Live tracking - Beta testing - Motorola Defy - Satellite Link
4. All Pepper – our first Ambassador
Over the coming months you will be seeing/ hearing lots about Al.
Who is is –
YouTube Vlogger – We first came across him on the Cheviot Challenge
Posted a video after he, his dad and uncle participated in it – Tracy and Katherine appeared in the video as he approached one of the summits.
He is an ultra-runner from the NE
On one of the videos, where he competed in a Yorkshire Dales Three Peaks ultra he struggled a little bit with regard to navigation to I reached out to him.
After a number of phone calls he is our first-ever – Ambassador
You cannot fail to like hem, really nice guy.
He mentions us lots now in his videos and I will collate a number of these in a news article some time before Christmas.
Al Pepper runs - watch him on YouTube
5. Andy’s Top Tips
Garmin Explore App – after importing (+ from Map) or open GPX with Explore – find transfer better if convert to course
Go into Collection folder – 2 x Drawing pin icon route, curved line course, footprint track, after selecting track or route select 3 x red dots top right – copy as course then select track or route – 3 red dots delete
Garmin Connect you can now convert activity to course to navigate with –
More – Activities – all activities etc – select activity – 3 white dots top right save to my courses
Add courses to bottom tabs – Select More bottom right – select Edit top rig...
GPS Training Podcast – number 90
Wednesday, November 1, 2023 • Duration
Garmin eTrex SE, 7 months on, GPS in the Hills and which app should you be using?
The big 90, that not bad going.
In this month’s podcast –
1. eTrex SE – 7 months on
2. GPS in the Hills – last course this/ last weekend – what is this course all about?
3. BaseCamp, connect, explore - which and for what scenarios – When using alongside a Garmin handheld unit?
4. We then have Andy’s top tips
- Garmin eTrex SE – 7 months on
The Garmin eTrerx SE was launched on the 14th March, in the same day the Garmin GPSMAP 67/ 67i was launched
Price - £149.99
To read an indepth review on the Garmin eTrex SE go to GpsTraining.co.uk > Product Reviews > Garmin eTrex SE Review
- GPS in the hills course – what is this?
You may have seen this on our website/ newsletters
For those who have been on our two-day Garmin GPS Training course.
£158.00 on website, but if you have been on a course you get a discount code making it half-priced - £79.00
What do we cover on this day-long course
Week leading upto course
- Planning over Zoom – week leading upto course
On the day - straight out onto the hill -
- Following the pre-planned route
- Looking at the different navigational experiences for a route, track, and course
- Trackback - we will do a trackback taking us back the way we came
- Creating a route directly on the unit
- Managing an emergency situation - what options do we have and how are we going to approach this
- Changing the ‘pre-planned’ plans - what options do we have and how we do this
- Navigating in the dark, how to set up our GPS units
This will all be delivered during an 8 - 12 mile walk (depending on elevation climbed) and only people who have been on our 2-day course will be invited onto the course.
South Downs – 4th October 2024
Lakes – 18th October 2024
Northumberland – 26th October 2024
If you want to find out more about our GPS courses please go to our website > GpsTraining.co.uk > GPS Training Course
- BaseCamp, Connect, Explore - which and for what scenarios – When using alongside a Garmin handheld unit?
Garmin BaseCamp
Garmin Connect
Garmin Explore
- Andy’s Top Tips
Explore App – Convert imported GPX files from track or route to a course before syncing – syncs quicker and seems to be more reliable when syncing
2 X Drawing pin icon - Route
Footprint icon -Track
Curved line – Course
3 x Red dots top right screen – copy as course, go back to track or route 3 x red dots top right select delete
Remember Find / Spy Glass Course
GPSMap65s – Pause Track – in theory you cannot or can you?
- When you are just about to go into a building and want to stop the recording - press your menu button twice to goto main menu
- Select Setup
- Select System
- Select Satellite System - changed from Muliti-GNSS to DEMO
- When you come out of the building and standing where your changed satellite to Demo - repeat the process and change Satellite back to Multi-GNSS
GPS Training Podcast – number 89
Sunday, October 1, 2023 • Duration
1:25k maps options and the Garmin GPSMAP67 series - 7 months on.
In this months podcast -
1. Advantages of 1:25k maps – 1 week left of map deal
2. GPSMAP 67/ 67i – 7 months in – our thoughts
3. Using a headtorch with a GPS unit, as the nights draw in
4. We then have Andy’s top tips
1. Advantages of 1:25k maps – 1 week left of map deal
Half-priced 1:25k map card with selected units – Offer ends 8th October
- Garmin GPSMAP 67/ 67i
- Garmin Montana 700/ 700i
Garmin led promotion – £175.00 saving as normally £349.99
Differences between 1:50k maps and 1:25k maps
If you want to find out more about the Garmin GPSMAP 67 series and Montana 700 series map card offer please go to GPSTraining.co.uk > GPS Store > GPS Units
2. GPSMAP 67/ 67i – 7 months in – our thoughts
If you want to find out more about the Garmin GPSMAP 67 series please go to GPSTraining.co.uk > GPS Store > GPS Units
3. Andy’s Top Tips
GPS Training Podcast – number 88
Friday, September 1, 2023 • Duration
Limited edition Coros Apex 2 Pro Chamonix Edition, New series on YouTube, map options and Andy's top tips
In this month’s podcast –
1. The new limited edition Coros Apex 2 Pro Chamonix Edition – GPS Watch
2. The new series on YouTube – FAQ’s
3. Map options available for an Outdoor GPS unit and the pros/ cons of each
4. We then have Andy’s top tips
The new limited edition Coros Apex 2 Pro Chamonix Edition – GPS Watch
It must be good as Andy’s bought himself one and even my wife likes it!
- What is the Coros Apex 2?
There has been a large software update in the past week which includes turn by turn routing and the ability to put a picture/ logo on the watch screen, anything else? Sign up to Beta on www.coros.com select Support – software updates – august beta updates for signup instructions.
- Turn-by-Turn Navigation - *BETA ONLY
Turn-by-Turn Navigation is available for you to test on your compatible COROS watch, helping you navigate with confidence wherever you are. Save any route in the COROS app and sync it directly to your watch to be notified of upcoming turns on your route automatically.
There will be a limited number of available testing slots based on the workload our support/product teams can handle (~500 users).
We expect the public beta to run 3-6 months, and once it is ready we will push to all global users with an update.
- Create Your Own Watch Face
Elevate your look with the COROS app. Go analog, or digital. Pick a personal photo or choose from our collection.
- Statistics Summary Page
Maximize your training insights, choose a date range, filter by activity type, and quickly view your Threshold Heart Rate Zone Distribution to ensure your training was where you intended it.
- Workout
Create a workout for your trail runs, including setting elevation gain as a target goal.
- New Watermark Image Sharing
Share your achievements and motivate others with new customizable watermark images. Upload a personal photo and overlay your training data for a quick visual summary of your workout.
- Even More Updates
Easier Route Sharing: Share and send routes to others over text messages and social media. Select the link to open the route and view data like elevation, distance, waypoints, and more.
- Accessible RHR Data: Resting Heart Rate during the day will now be predicted based on sleep heart rate, which will provide an automatic way to get your RHR data.
- Favorite Locations: Create favorite Locations on the Explore page for quick access when creating new routes. Before drawing a route, click the location and edit and name the location directly.
- Merge points on custom routes: Merge "start" and "end" points on your routes created on the Explore page. Merge the points in the upper right corner to the left of the bottom button.
- WiFi: Improved Wifi connection to speed up the installation of firmware updates.
- Extended Activity Recording option: Previously, the longest activity you could record was 200 hours. Additionally, that was the maximum number of hours users could record on their watch before syncing to the COROS App. This has been extended to 1200 hours.
- What is the Chamonix Edition, and how is it different?
Limited release 3000 x units worldwide
If you aspire to train hard and move fast outdoors, there's no more iconic base than Chamonix. The spiritual home of trail running and gateway to the epic terrain of Mont Blanc, this special edition APEX 2 Pro celebrates one of the greatest places on earth to train and trail-blaze.
ALPINE INSPIRED COLORS
Far from the green that dominates the lower slopes, the blue and grey colors echo Mont Blanc's high elevations where rock and glacier meet the piercing sky.
- Price - £448.00
- Walk and talk on the Coros Apex 2 – next Wednesday – 6th September, I take the watch for a 20-mile walk in the Cheviot Hills
- We have both become big fans of the Coros Apex 2 range of watc...
GPS Training Podcast – number 87
Tuesday, August 1, 2023 • Duration
Our thoughts on Motorola Defy - Satellite Link, Coros watches and Andy's top tips
In this month’s podcast –
With the Motorola defy – Satellite Link being with us for a couple of months now we talk more in-depth about everybody experience with this all-new two-way satellite communicator
We have an in-depth chat about the Coros range of GPS watches
We then have Andy’s top tips
- Motorola Defy – Satellite Link
It has been with us for a couple of months now, what is it?
Key features –
Price
Price of contracts
Does not use Iridium satellites – always logged on (high orbit satellites, always same place in sky
What makes it different to existing products – Garmin Messenger, inReach mini 2, Zoleo
We have just 117 to date. (as of 1 hour ago), what are people's thoughts Andy?
I have never seen a product sell the way it has.
If you want to find out more please go to GPSTraining.co.uk > GPS Store > Two-way satellite communicator
- Coros Watches
Coros Apex or Coros Apex 2 Pro – what are the differences
If you want to find out more please go to GPSTraining.co.uk > GPS Store > GPS Watches
- Andy’s Top Tips
GPS Training Podcast – number 86
Saturday, July 1, 2023 • Duration
The Spine Challenger race - Post-event catch-up.
As both Andy and I competed in it and we both have our own stories from the event we thought it best to bring in a guest presenter this month.
And this is Jane, my long-suffering wife, who also has her own Spine story after spending lots of time in the area, both when I was personally out doing my recce’s of the route and also running around, dropping off, dot watching and just like Andy and myself getting very little sleep during the event itself.
If you have not already done so, please go back and listen to last month’s podcast, when we had our pre-event chat, if you are looking for the ‘back story’.
If you can support us -
Jon - https://www.justgiving.com/team/jonspine
Andy - https://www.justgiving.com/team/andyayrespinechallenger
So, if people don’t know Andy, what is the Summer Spine Challenger South race?
108 miles in total
60 hours to complete
Total Ascent: 5451 metres, 17,883 feet
1 checkpoint (Hebdon Bridge) – 46 miles
Soft checkpoint (1.5) (Malham Tarn) – 84.5 miles
How far to did each of you get?
- Andy
- Jon
Let’s go all the way back to the start, we actually the day before – Registration – kit check – Friday afternoon, day before the event
- Kit check
- tracker – received the Saturday morning
- Race number
4. Race morning – Start to CP1 (Hebdon Bridge) – 46 miles
- Progress
- Difficulty
- Weather
- How did each of you manage – highs/ lows/ speed/ difficulty
- Time arrived – CP1 – what did you do at CP and what time did you get away?
- Jon
- Andy
CP1 – CP 1.5 – 46 miles to 84.5 miles (38.5 miles leg)
- Andy, take us through the xx miles from CP1, how did you feel initially, when did things start taking a turn for the worse?
- Nausea – when did this start Andy?
What where you feeling
- Andy reached – Lothersdale – Mileage 64 miles ish – Time ??
Talk me through those 20 miles from CP1 to Lothersdale?
How did you get back and where did you get back to.
Jon, you hooked up with x 3 walkers coming out of CP1, was this planned? I know you where still with them when I met you at xxx yyy
Weather leaving CP1
Daylight
Feet
I met you at Lothersdale, a little bit of a Father’s Day surprise?
Your next stop was Gargrave (74 miles in – 28 miles into day 2), I know this was a key point to get to as it was one of the few places you could stock up with supplies – Co-op
Then I met you again at Malham – 83.5 miles
Weather was a little different than the last time we walked that section, was the Ice Cream van there?
CP1.5 – Malham Tarn
- Rain
- I was hoping to sleep just after CP1.5, but with the weather I decided to push on
Fountains Fell – tent, started to hallucinate.
Dropped down to Rainscar road – just before climb up to Peny-y-Ghent
Slept – 12.30 – 1.00 am
Pen-y-Ghent summit – 2.00 am
Horton in Ribblesdale – 4.20 am – leader overtook me at 4.00 am – official footage from the Spine Race
Finish 12.04 – Hardraw, just past Hawes
GPS Training Podcast – number 85
Monday, June 12, 2023 • Duration
The Spine Challenger race - Special mid-month podcast
If you can support us -
Jon - https://www.justgiving.com/team/jonspine
Andy - https://www.justgiving.com/team/andyayrespinechallenger
In this special ‘mid-month’ podcast we are going to look ahead to the Spine Challenger Race, which starts on Saturday 17th June.
As many of you may know Andy completed 95ish miles of this event last year, he is back again to ‘finish what he started last year’, and I will be also participating in this event.
Therefore, you are going to listen in on our pre event chat, as I try and prize Andy’s expertise from him and learn from the lessons he learnt from participating in last year’s event.
Podcast 72 – Andy’s pre-walk interview
Podcast 74 – Andy’s post-walk podcast
So, if people don’t know Andy, what is the Summer Spine Challenger South race?60 hours to complete?
108 miles in total?
Total Ascent: 5451 metres
Total Descent: 5449 metres
Other events taking place over the same period -- Sprint race – Edale to Hebdon Bridge – 46 miles
18 hours to complete
Total Ascent: 2017 metres
Total Descent: 2033 metres
- Summer Spine Challenger North – Hardraw – Kirk Yetholm - 160 miles
Time Limit: 96 hours
Total Ascent: 5,290 metres
Total Descent: 5,591 metres
- Full Spine race – Edale to Kirk Yetholm -
Start: Edale, Derbyshire, UK
Finish: Kirk Yetholm, Scottish Borders
Distance: 268 miles
Time Limit: 156 hours
Finish Time: 20:00 June 24th 2023
Total Ascent: 10,732 metres
Total Descent: 10,941 metres
Spine Challenger walk - 108 miles
Checkpoint 1 – 46 miles – Hebdon Bridge
Soft checkpoint – Malham Tarn – 84 miles
What are you going to do differently this time? Lessons learnt?
What did you mainly navigate with – GPS Unit, watch, map?
Hardest part of the course?
What have you learnt about your body?
What have you learnt about your kit, anything different this time?
Registration
Live tracking
Many thanks for joining me on this special ‘mid-month’ GPS Training podcast
GPS Training Podcast – number 84
Thursday, June 1, 2023 • Duration
All new Garmin watches (Epix Pro (Gen 2) and Fenix 7 PRO), getting our hands on the Motorola Defy and Coros watches
In this month’s podcast –
Garmin Epix Pro (gen 2) and Fenix 7 pro launched yesterday
Garmin GPSMAP 67 and eTrex SE - what have we learnt to date?
Motorola Defy - Satellite link
Coros watches
Andy’s top tips
Garmin Epix Pro (Gen 2) and Fenix 7 PRO – launched yesterday
Epix Pro (Gen 2) is now x 3 sizes –
42 mm (same as Fenix S version) – 10 days battery life
47 mm (same as current version) – 16 days battery life
51 mm (same as Fenix X version) – 31 days battery life
New 5th generation Heart rate monitor
Flashlight built in to all models
£30.00 price increase – (42mm an 47mm) - £929.99
£999.99 for the 51mm version
Fenix 7 pro –
Still – s, normal and x (same sizes as above)
Flashlight built in to all models
100% charging now comes from ring around Bezel – was 10% from behind screen – Therefore better screen clarity
To find more about the Garmin EPIX Pro (Gen2) and Fenix 7 Pro please go to our website > GPSTraining.co.uk > GPS Store > GPS watches
Garmin GPSMAP 67 and eTrex SE - what have we learnt to date?
Garmin GPSMAP 67/ 67i
Battery Life, new wifi download / update of topo active Europe plus other regions now avail, i version now multiband dual frequency
Garmin eTrex SE
Walk and talk on the Garmin eTrex SE
To find more about the Garmin GPSMAP 67/ 67i and eTrex SE please go to our website > GPSTraining.co.uk > GPS Store > Handheld GPS Units
An update on the Motorola Defy, the ‘budget’ satellite communicator
Last week I walked in Yorkshire with Antony and Aman from Bullitt, the company who has created the Motorola Defy – Satellite Link
Walk and Talk went live yesterday for the Motorola Defy - Satellite Link – Wednesday 31st May 2023
00:00 – An introduction to the walk and talk with the Motorola Defy Satellite Link and the key features, as described by Antony, from the Bullitt Group
07:16 – Amon joins us from the sales team from Bullitt
10:50 – How the Motorola Defy Satellite Link works and what buttons are on the device
11:00 – A look at the app that works alongside the Motorola Defy Satellite Link
14:00 – How to send and receive messages from the Motorola Defy Satellite Link
15:50 – The durability of the Motorola Defy Satellite Link
16:25 – What happens when you press the SOS button on the Motorola Defy Satellite Link
19:32 – The key features of the Motorola Defy Satellite Link
Coros watches
Just started to stock
Models –
Apex 2 £349
Apex 2 pro £449
Compare Fenix 7 Standard £559, GPS 57hrs, all 40hrs, weight 79g , not sapphire glass
Benefits, compared to Garmin
Price – with quality materials sapphire titanium – light pro 53g, standard 42g
Battery compared to cheaper watches
Apex 2 pro 75hrs GPS-Qzss – 45hrs 5 x Satellites – 26hrs 5 x + dual frequency
Apex 2 45hrs GPS-Qzss – 30hrs 5 x Satellites
App has very easy to use planning – waypoints adding for ahead points
Scroll wheel still allows scroll through data screens with lock to stop accidental pause only
Less features but enough easier to use ??
The next thing on this month’s GPS Training Podcast is Andy’s top tips
GPSMap67 – great battery – keep eye with iq widget battery widget with automatic charge detection
With unit on tap power button once and right keypad arrow move to widget
eTrex SE – pair with Explore app – download maps offline to app, when tracking app uses SE gps location and shows your moving or navigating Route on app
Coros Apex 2 watches – When recording activity and navigating – hold button in unlock – scroll to map press scroll wheel + & - displays use scroll wheel to zoom in out remember to press back button once before screen locks 5 seconds, if back button pressed when on map after zoom in will zoom out ...
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