Gospelbound, hosted by Collin Hansen for The Gospel Coalition, is a podcast for those searching for firm faith in an anxious age. Each week, Collin talks with insightful guests about books, ideas, and how to navigate life by the gospel of Jesus Christ in a post-Christian culture.
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How Do You Want Your Children to Remember You? (with Michael Keller)
Episode 194
Tuesday, September 22, 2026 • Duration 58:40
I want to tell a story about how I learned something that changed my life. It was the first Keller Center retreat in 2023. Our inaugural fellows, a couple dozen of them, didn’t know each other well. We had just finished a team-building scavenger hunt crisscrossing Manhattan. We settled into a Sunday school room at Redeemer West Side on W 83rd Street. We were about to do a Zoom call with Tim from his hospital room. It was the last time many of us spoke with him. He would die within weeks. He left us notes on what he wanted to see from the center.
In that exercise before we talked to Tim, I led a discussion on the Great Dechurching, the unprecedented decline in Christian practice in the United States since the year 2000. I’ve led this exercise many times before and since, without incident. The goal is to identify what events and trends really shift culture. In this case, a majority of Americans had the internet in their homes by 2000. Add smartphones and social media and now AI and you can see that the dawn of the information age is perhaps the biggest story of the 21st century so far. But the exercise didn’t sit well with many of our fellows. We weren’t yet comfortable with each other. Some wanted to dig a lot deeper with ideas and a lot further back in history. Others saw the internet more as a vehicle rather than the driver of cultural change. Some just misunderstood the exercise altogether.
I’ll never forget Michael Keller’s response. He pulled some of his dad’s notes on how to share the gospel in our current age. He described various overlapping and conflicting cultural narratives that help us make sense of the world, apart from God. And then he showed how Jesus critiques and ultimately completes those narratives. It was brilliant work.
In This Episode: 00:00 – Why the best gospel presentation cannot save your children 00:58 – How an early Keller Center retreat shaped The Stories We Live By 05:02 – How Michael and Tim Keller began the book together 07:11 – The seven cultural stories shaping modern life 09:37 – Why identity may be the defining cultural narrative of our age 11:10 – Cultural narratives as Christian heresies 13:52 – The strengths and failures of expressive individualism 15:58 – What Michael hopes The Stories We Live By changes in the church 18:15 – How cultural narratives shape Christians too 20:27 – What remains in Tim Keller’s unpublished notes 23:06 – How Michael handles ongoing criticism of his father 25:35 – Tim Keller, “third way” criticism, and diagonalization 26:50 – What church planting taught Michael that he could not learn secondhand 29:56 – Redeemer’s transition after Tim Keller 30:49 – Why the best way to honor Tim Keller is not to imitate him 32:28 – Introducing Talking to Kids About Hard Things 35:09 – Why Michael was skeptical of parenting books 36:36 – “Your kids need your repentance more than your perfection” 38:25 – Why apologizing to your children matters 40:14 – The gospel in action through forgiveness and repentance 41:40 – Why technique cannot produce saving faith 44:01 – How to help children feel safe asking hard questions 45:17 – Teaching like Jesus by asking questions 47:53 – How parenting reveals who we really are 49:18 – Control, repentance, and what parenting exposed in Michael 51:52 – How Michael wants his daughters to remember him 53:27 – Collin on integrity between public ministry and private family life 54:58 – Integrity, not perfection 57:29 – Final reflections and recommended books 58:16 – Outro
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Why AI Will Write Your Next Sermon
Episode 193
Tuesday, September 8, 2026 • Duration 45:54
Like many others, generative AI has become a nearly daily part of my life in the last couple years. I’ve found help for home repairs. Diet and exercise plans. Meal preparation. Trip planning. Personal health assessments. Footnote formatting. Even baseball swing and pitching advice for my son. Combine the best of Google and YouTube, tailored to my specific needs and situations from changing windshield wipers to fixing sump pumps, and that’s how I’ve used AI so far. I know I’m not even scratching the surface of what agentic AI can and will eventually do. I’ve seen friends spin up websites it would have taken years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to build just five years ago.
But do you know the most common use? It’s not one I’ve employed myself. And it’s not one I’d recommend. But according to Harvard Business Review, it’s remained perched on the top from 2025 to 2026 even as other common uses have wildly fluctuated up and down the charts.
It’s therapy and companionship.
If you’re like me, you’re probably wondering about how AI chatbots could be the reasons companies like OpenAI have been valued at $852 billion. Or why AI has become the widely and quickly adopted new technology in human history. Isn’t AI supposed to revolutionize business? Upend every profession and transform entire economies?
Perhaps.
The trend is clear. It looks like many others have been turning to AI for help in fixing their toilets. (Claude was wrong in my situation, by the way.) More commonly, AI is less of a computer interface and more of a, well, human face. A friend to share jokes and silly pictures. An imaginative storyteller. A trusty counselor to assess your new relationship. A medium who can predict your future. And a wise confidant who promises not to lead you astray (or tell you what you don’t want to hear).
Given the wild predictions about AI’s unparalleled value, how can these cases be the most common ways we employ the technology? Is your daily horoscope worth $852 billion?
Now, what if I told you this is exactly what the builders of AI expected us to do?
Why Pascal’s Wager Still Pays Off (with Graham Tomlin)
Episode 192
Tuesday, August 25, 2026 • Duration 01:03:45
The patron saint of cultural apologetics is Augustine of Hippo, author most famously of City of God and Confessions. Second place is up for debate. But you’ll get a lot of votes for a 17th-century disciple of Augustine, the Frenchman Blaise Pascal.
Graham Tomlin describes Pascal as the “man who made the modern world” in a new biography. Tomlin is the director of the Centre for Cultural Witness in Oxford, England. He writes of Pascal that “it is hard to think of anyone who has impacted so many fields of human endeavour in such a short time.”
Here’s a taste from Tomlin about Pascal’s accomplishments: he basically invented probability theory; proved the existence of the vacuum; laid the foundations of integral calculus; conducted the first modern scientific experiment; developed theory that made possible the hydraulic press; demonstrated that air has weight; designed and built the first mechanical calculating machine, which led to what we know as the computer; set the trend of wearing wrist watches; and built the first public urban transportation system in Europe.
And did I already mention he was one of the most effective and enduring cultural apologists of all time, perhaps second only to Augustine? Tomlin writes, “His was a Christianity founded in a profound experience of God, an intense devotional life and a form of faith that offered a radical alternative to the comfortable assimilation to culture that the Church of his day often seemed to promote.”
Let’s talk to Graham Tomlin about this remarkable man, who lamented man’s inability to sit quietly by himself, who observed, “The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing.”
In This Episode:
00:00 – Pascal’s wager and living as if Christianity is true
00:49 – Introducing Blaise Pascal, the cultural apologist who helped make the modern world
02:36 – Pascal’s remarkable inventions, including public transportation and the Pascaline
05:42 – Augustine’s influence on Pascal’s theology of desire, fallenness, and grace
08:11 – Why Pascal trusted reason in science but not as the starting point for faith
10:46 – Pascal’s “Night of Fire” and encounter with the living God
16:43 – Why Pascal went to war with the Jesuits
20:20 – Jansenism, Calvinism, and Pascal’s understanding of grace
25:51 – The hiddenness of God as an argument for faith
32:38 – How human misery points toward human greatness
39:46 – What Pascal’s Wager actually means
48:45 – Pascal, Jonathan Haidt, and the psychology of belief
49:05 – “Make it attractive”: Pascal’s enduring strategy for cultural apologetics
51:59 – How Pascal anticipated both the modern and postmodern worlds
59:22 – What Pascal would say about modern science and scientism
1:01:43 – Why Pascal’s faith speaks to people who have looked into the abyss
1:03:21 – Outro
How Kevin Vanhoozer Bridges Biblical Studies and Theology
I had the blessing of studying under Dr. Vanhoozer at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. And I was challenged in this book just as I was challenged and encouraged in his courses. Mere Christian Hermeneutics helps all of us who live on the far side of the “demise of biblical civilization.” When Westerners want to tell the story of the world, we no longer open the Bible. Vanhoozer aims to reconnect us with Scripture as our means of enjoying “covenant fellowship with the triune God.” I loved this summary in the book: “How an unholy people can come into the presence of a holy God is the chief complication in the biblical narrative to which the gospel is the solution.”
So let’s get into mere Christian hermeneutics, reading the Bible spiritually, the Transfiguration, and much more.
In This Episode: 00:00 – The transfiguration of Jesus and the way Christians read Scripture 00:39 – Introducing Mere Christian Hermeneutics 01:58 – What makes this approach to hermeneutics “mere”? 03:26 – How different reading cultures divide Christians 05:01 – Polarization among Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox Christians 06:52 – The loss of Christianity’s cultural influence in the West 07:46 – Does Catholic authority solve Protestant interpretive pluralism? 10:43 – What does it mean to interpret the Bible spiritually? 13:23 – How the transfiguration guides Christian interpretation 16:08 – Why Christians should not separate Jesus from the Bible – Johannes Oecolampadius and Scripture’s Christ-centered scope – Bridging the divide between biblical scholars and theologians – Kant, critical thinking, and the rise of biblical criticism – The hidden assumptions modern readers bring to Scripture – Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and teaching systematic theology – Cultural hermeneutics and the formative power of culture – The current state of theological interpretation of Scripture – Potential dangers in theological retrieval – Protestant catholicity and unity amid secondary disagreements – Vanhoozer’s work with the Alexandrian Institute – His four-volume systematic theology project – Brahms, young theologians, and reasons for hope – What pastors can learn from Henry James – Outro
Jen Wilkin Wants to Help You Age Wisely
Episode 190
Tuesday, July 28, 2026 • Duration 01:01:31
Only a couple years out of college, I told my coworkers that I looked forward to being old. They weren’t just dismissive of that comment. They were indignant. On one level, I know why. I understood little to nothing at age 23 about the hardships of aging and caring for the dying. I hadn’t yet suffered many of life’s inevitable pains.
At the same time, I looked forward to greater wisdom, maybe even defeat of some sins and temptations. I was excited about all I could learn if the Lord granted me years. Maybe I even had a couple Bible verses in my head, like Proverbs 16:31: “Gray hair is a crown of
glory; it is gained in a righteous life.” Or Job 12:12: “Wisdom is with the aged, and understanding in length of days.”
Both those verses are cited by Jen Wilkin in her excellent new book, Dust to Dust: Aging Wisely in an Anti-Aging World, published by Crossway. If you take my youthful naiveté at its best, I was recognizing what Jen distinguishes in her book: the world says to age is to diminish. But the Bible says to age is to deepen. Now in middle age, however, I experience the good and bad: the invisibility because no one would possibly notice my appearance. But also the freedom: because I have that middle-age dad’s superpower of not caring what other people think of my appearance.
I didn’t realize how much I needed Jen’s book, and I’m eager to ask a whole bunch of questions now on Gospelbound.
In This Episode:
00:00:00 – Jen Wilkin reflects on her mother’s death and the symmetry of life
00:00:49 – Why Collin has long looked forward to old age
00:01:20 – Introducing Dust to Dust and the contrast between cultural decline and biblical deepening
00:02:31 – Why modern culture values youth over old age
00:03:55 – Jen’s first moments of realizing she was aging
00:05:46 – How aging feels different for men and women
00:07:49 – Why many people fear becoming a burden
00:10:08 – Assisted suicide, dependency, and surprising cultural opposition
00:14:47 – The “chiasm of life” and how beginning and end mirror each other
00:21:02 – Why midlife offers a unique vantage point for perspective and wisdom
00:24:50 – Caring simultaneously for children and aging parents
00:29:12 – Why caregiving is not a season but a default setting of life
00:32:10 – How modern longevity has changed the experience of family and aging
00:36:25 – “You will not surely die”: the anti-gospel of age denial
00:37:52 – How suffering narrows our priorities
00:40:34 – Honoring parents and the fuller meaning of the fifth commandment
00:45:44 – Retirement, crystallized knowledge, and later-life vocation
00:50:46 – A theology of aging before a debate about anti-aging practices
00:55:33 – Jen’s regrets, sanctification, and learning to honor parents well
01:00:26 – Final reflections on aging, family, and hope
01:01:07 – Outro
How AI Plays a Gospel Imitation Game (with Christopher Watkin)
Episode 189
Tuesday, July 21, 2026 • Duration 01:00:01
You might think AI is the most exciting technological development of all time, and you’ve been vibe coding before the rest of us had ever heard the term.
Or maybe you think AI is the most dangerous technological development of all time, and you’re desperately hoping someone will step up to stop autonomous weapons and programs powerful enough to thwart any existing security system.
Or maybe you’re somewhere in the middle. Maybe you still don’t know what all the fuss is about.
No matter where you are, I know I can recommend a new single-season TGC podcast called Silicon Spiritualities, hosted by Christopher Watkin, a fellow at The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. My friend Chris also contributed two chapters to the forthcoming book I edited with Skyler Flowers, titled The AI Apocalypse: A Survival Guide for Humanity. I love hearing Chris teach on just about anything. But his reflections on AI have been especially insightful for me, and I’m eager to welcome him back to Gospelbound to discuss these two new projects.
In This Episode:
00:00 – The hidden human cost of AI training
00:36 – Introducing Christopher Watkin, Silicon Spiritualities, and The AI Apocalypse
01:48 – The gospel story Silicon Valley tells about AI
06:01 – Investor hype, idolatry, and AI religions
08:09 – Data workers, exploitation, water use, and the wider AI industry
12:03 – Avoiding both AI doom and AI hype
14:26 – Is AI more like the internet, electricity, or agriculture?
17:20 – Why Christian anthropology is not threatened by AI intelligence
21:01 – Why a frictionless life can become passive rather than free
25:30 – Using AI with integrity in writing and creative work
27:16 – Watkin’s practical uses of AI at home and in his work
29:34 – AI companionship and the desire to be known and loved
34:10 – Mutuality, reciprocity, and what AI cannot share with us
39:19 – Consciousness, imitation, and participation
41:51 – Transhumanism and the temptation to outgrow humanity
45:22 – Why studying AI has made Watkin more excited about God
48:29 – AI, existential risk, and the problem of the human heart
54:31 – Alignment, sycophancy, Her, and the imitation game
59:37 – Closing remarks
Andrew Wilson Wants to Help You Pursue Happiness
Episode 188
Tuesday, June 30, 2026 • Duration 50:02
Andrew Wilson is one of the happiest guys I know. So it only makes sense that he would write a book called Happiness: What It Is, Where to Find It, and How to Make It Last Forever, published by Crossway. He’s the expert. I’m delighted when I see Andrew at a TGC conference, or a retreat for The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. I look forward to every chance to spend time with him. He writes in this book, “Nothing is more honoring to a friend, a child, or a spouse than saying they make you happy. Nothing is more demeaning to them than telling them they don’t.” I can say, with no reservation, Andrew makes me happy when we’re together.
Ok. But where does that leave the rest of us? If we’re not naturally happy? If we’re not feeling happy right now? If we’re not hanging out with Andrew? The Declaration of Independence, 250 years ago, put happiness at the center of life’s aim: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Andrew covered that statement in his excellent earlier book, Remaking the World: How 1776 Created the Post-Christian West. Given the anniversary, I plan in this interview to sneak in a question or two about that fateful year. And we’ll discuss much more, including the difference between joy and happiness, whether God promises happiness, and why millennials grew up to be sad.
In This Episode:
00:00 – What makes us genuinely happier
00:40 – Why Andrew Wilson wrote a book about happiness
04:29 – Happiness, sorrow, and biblical examples of deep joy
07:26 – Is joy different from happiness?
11:53 – Does God promise happiness to Christians?
13:35 – Why millennials became less happy as adults
19:41 – Freedom, responsibility, and the limits of liberation
23:21 – The “problem of superfluous happiness”
26:01 – How pursuing happiness helps us fight sin
29:23 – Why virtue, gratitude, and humility make us happier
32:53 – Compassion versus empathy
34:15 – Turning delights into disciplines
37:06 – Remaking the World and America’s 250th anniversary
39:48 – What makes the United States unique?
47:08 – Discovery, defense, temperament, and optimism
48:55 – Closing and book recommendations
New Resources Help You See God by Connecting Scripture (with Ben Gladd)
Episode 187
Tuesday, June 16, 2026 • Duration 01:05:43
Different preachers get excited about different aspects of the sermon. Some collect and deploy excellent illustrations. Others just nail the application week after week. Others can really reach your heart.
What really fires me up are the connections between the Old and New Testaments, the way God’s plan of redemption unfolds in familiar and new ways from Genesis to Revelation. So you know I’d be excited about an excellent new resource, the CSB Connecting Scripture New Testament, edited by G. K. Beale and Benjamin Gladd. This study Bible includes a robust cross reference system that will help you see Old Testament quotations, allusions, and parallels within the New Testament so you can see all 66 books as a unified story from God. You’ll also find book introductions, study note commentary, articles, charts, and infographics.
In This Episode:
00:00:00 – Why continuity between Old and New Testament wording matters
00:00:41 – Introducing the CSB Connecting Scripture New Testament
00:01:53 – Ben Gladd and the mission of the Carson Center
00:04:06 – Why another study Bible?
00:07:06 – Green and blue fonts: changing the reading experience
00:08:24 – Quotations, allusions, and the “connective tissue” of Scripture
00:11:06 – Why Old Testament allusions matter for Bible study
00:12:46 – John 6, grumbling, and Israel in the wilderness
00:13:46 – Mark 1, John the Baptist, and the burning bush
00:15:41 – “Fishers of men” and Jeremiah 16
00:18:55 – Reading Revelation through Old Testament “emojis”
00:22:07 – John 1:1, Genesis 1:1, and Christology
00:27:47 – How the apostles read the Old Testament
00:31:19 – Guardrails for identifying legitimate allusions
00:35:36 – Do English translations obscure biblical connections?
00:42:27 – How pastors can use the study Bible in sermon preparation
00:44:19 – Why pastors should use the Old Testament for illustrations
00:48:31 – The Carson Center’s Concise Bible Commentary
00:53:44 – Learning from Don Carson and G. K. Beale
01:00:11 – Dictionary of the New Testament Use of the Old Testament
01:00:44 – Biblical Theology Briefing podcast
01:02:34 – A future Connecting Scripture Old Testament
01:05:19 – Closing
C. S. Lewis, the New Atheists, and the Failure to Disprove God with Alister McGrath
Episode 186
Tuesday, June 2, 2026 • Duration 50:02
Alister McGrath remembers life as an atheist back in the late 1960s. He believed only what could be proven to be true. And he judged religious believers for trusting in an irrational fantasy.
Looking back, though, he can see an emotional basis for what he thought were purely rational conclusions. He didn’t want God to exist, because God would threaten his freedom. As an atheist he could do whatever he wanted. He could be the center of the universe.
Now as a Christian and one of the most well-known apologists in the world, McGrath sees how much desire determines what we believe about the universe. He says, “The human desire for unaccountability leads to the metaphysical conclusion that there should not be a God.”
Last summer McGrath and I caught up when he was the keynote speaker at a Beeson Divinity School conference on Persuasive Preaching. I was invited to engage and respond to his presentation. Alister is a theologian and Christian apologist with a particular interest in the relation of science and faith. In fact he recently retired as a professor of science and religion at Oxford University.
I know him as a godly encourager and kind interlocutor. I’ve learned a lot from him on various subjects, especially C. S. Lewis. In fact, I was listening to him at Lanier Library in Houston when he inspired me to begin work on a book about Lewis and Winston Churchill. So I’m excited to talk with him again about atheism and apologetics and a heavy dose of Lewis.
In This Episode:
00:00 – Why belief cannot always be proven
00:37 – Collin introduces Alister McGrath, atheism, desire, and C. S. Lewis
02:19 – McGrath’s move from atheism to Christianity in 1971
03:58 – Conversion as a process rather than an instant transformation
05:07 – C. S. Lewis’s “Is Theology Poetry?” and Christianity as a big picture of reality
06:30 – Christianity as aligning with the deep truths of the universe
08:01 – The New Atheists and the power of rhetorical certainty
11:06 – Why the New Atheist movement faded
13:26 – How apologetics has changed over the decades
16:29 – Tim Keller’s apologetic influence
20:25 – Integrating apologetics into preaching
23:22 – Faith versus fact—or faith versus faith?
24:28 – Enlightenment assumptions and the limits of proof
26:33 – Morality, Christianity, and secularized Christian values
28:31 – Truth, meaning, and transformative belief
30:07 – “Bleakness is not an indicator of truth”
31:53 – C. S. Lewis, Winston Churchill, and wartime apologetics
35:03 – Lewis, The Problem of Pain, and the BBC broadcasts
36:52 – Lewis’s faith, academic career, and public apologetics
39:53 – The Weight of Glory and spiritual flourishing in wartime
42:39 – Lewis on marriage, forgiveness, and the Holocaust context
45:29 – The Guardian, archives, and The Screwtape Letters
48:44 – McGrath’s storytelling apologetics and closing reflections
49:38 – Gospelbound outro
How to Save Western Civilization with Allen Guelzo
Right now for Western civilization, the former is leading to the latter. Having been widely condemned as oppressive, imperialist, colonizing, and appropriating, Western civilization is sometimes not even taught, let alone celebrated for producing the moral, technological, political, economic, and lifestyle achievements that give shape to our world. The Golden Thread helps in remembering and teaching without ignoring the failures and shortcomings of Western civilization.
The textbook collaborators Guelzo and Hankins have been acquainted for more than 50 years. Hankins wrote volume one, and Guelzo has written volume two. Guelzo is the Thomas W. Smith Distinguished Research Scholar and director of the James Madison Program’s Initiative on Politics and Statesmanship at Princeton University. Guelzo is a long-time favorite writer of mine, not least for his work on the American Civil War and Abraham Lincoln, for which he last appeared on Gospelbound in 2024. I’m honored to host him again as we commemorate the 250th anniversary of the founding of the United States, one of the hinge points in Western civilization in that memorable year of 1776.
In This Episode:
00:00 – Why Western civilization slips away when taken for granted
00:25 – Introducing Allen Guelzo and The Golden Thread
02:24 – How should we define Western civilization?
08:02 – The fall of communism and the West’s crisis of confidence
11:23 – China, radical Islam, Russia, and civilizational conflict
12:47 – Self-criticism as the West’s strength and danger
15:38 – World wars, Darwin, Freud, communism, and lost confidence
19:49 – The atomic age and the misuse of scientific achievement
22:09 – Defending the West without triumphalism
25:38 – Winston Churchill, trauma, and Christian civilization
30:15 – Adenauer, de Gaulle, and rebuilding Europe after 1945
32:38 – Strange defeat, German memory, and Russia’s missed moment
38:37 – C. S. Lewis, John Paul II, and Christianity in a skeptical age
39:28 – Contingency, crisis, and the decisions that shape history
42:24 – Christianity, Greece, Rome, and the “layer cake” of the West
51:33 – Technology, memory, and the future of civilization
53:39 – Lincoln, King, Augustine, and recovering the tradition
58:17 – Could artificial intelligence revive classical education?
59:37 – Closing encouragement
That’s the vision behind a new book, The AI Apocalypse: A Survival Guide for Humanity, which I edited along with Skyler Flowers and The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. I spoke on my introduction from the book at a recent TGC regional chapter meeting in Nashville.
Thank you to TGC Nashville and Edgefield Church for hosting and recording this podcast in front of a lively and engaged audience. You could have heard a pin drop when I talked to these (mostly) pastors about why AI will write their next sermon. Now is the time to work through the ethical implications together and decide where to draw the line.
In This Episode:
0:00 AI's Unexpected Role as a Human Companion and Counselor
7:21 AI, Love, and the Lessons from Her
13:37 The Role of AI in Defining Human Purpose
20:17 The Impact of AI on Literacy and Human Creativity
28:51 The Irreplaceable Human Touch in Preaching Amid AI Advancements
38:39 Navigating AI Ethics in Church, Family, and Education
40:41 The Impacts of AI on Society and Economy
Learn more at downlinememphis.com/virtual-institute or email info@downlineministries.com for group pricing and discounts.
Check out The Pour Over Podcast — politically neutral news for people who want the facts without the spin, and with a brief biblical perspective
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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