How can a historic church navigate a rapidly changing world without losing its soul?

In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Martha Tatarnic speaks with Archbishop Shane Parker, the newly elected Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada, about leading through transition, discernment, and hope for the church’s future.

Archbishop Parker shares the story of his unexpected election, reflecting on themes of surrender, vocation, and guiding change rather than being changed by circumstance. Together, they explore what it means to lead faithfully in a post-Christian context—one where the church no longer holds cultural prominence but still holds deep spiritual purpose.

They discuss:

• The evolving role of Christianity in Canadian society

• What it means to be “first among equals” in Anglican leadership

• The spiritual practice of personal prayer and community intercession

• Why some leaders are called to stay instead of move on

• The challenge of guiding change before it overtakes the church

• How to reimagine church structures for relevance and sustainability

• The importance of friendship, pastoral care, and gathered community in thriving congregations

• His hope that the future of Christianity will embody the courage, compassion, and justice of Christ

Parker offers both realism and hope: that the Anglican Church can rediscover its vitality by focusing on community, worship, and service — not nostalgia or institutional weight.

Archbishop Shane Parker was elected the 15th Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada on June 26, 2025, and installed on June 29, 2025, at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London, Ontario. Prior to being elected Primate, he had served as the Bishop of the Anglican Diocese of Ottawa since 2020. Before that, he was dean of the Diocese of Ottawa and rector of Christ Church Cathedral for two decades. Born to Irish parents in Edmonton, Alberta, he grew up in western Canada. He worked as a labourer for several years before embarking on undergraduate and graduate studies in sociology at Carleton University. After working as a professional sociologist, he studied theology at Saint Paul University. He was ordained as a priest in 1987 in the Diocese of Ottawa, later serving as the diocesan archdeacon.  Parker has an honorary doctorate from Saint Paul University, where he has served as a part-time professor of pastoral ministry and chairs its Anglican Studies Advisory Committee. A collection of his pastoral essays was published by Novalis in a book called Answering the Big Questions. He is a recipient of the Interfaith Ottawa Award, for devoted service to promoting interfaith dialogue and cooperation. Parker is married to Katherine Shadbolt, a lawyer specializing in family law and mediation. He has three adult children and three grandchildren. He is handy, enjoys physical work and is most comfortable in natural places.

Mentioned Resources:

🌐 The Anglican Church of Canada: https://www.anglican.ca/

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What do you do when life falls apart—and you have no idea what to do next?

In this heartfelt episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell, theologian, researcher, and author of Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do and Always On: The Gravity of Joy. Drawing from her own experience of profound grief and transformation, Angela shares how surrender, acceptance, and spiritual practices like meditation can open us to God’s presence—even in silence.

Together, they explore:

• The difference between grasping for control and living in surrender

• How to accept reality as it is without losing hope

• Why prayer isn’t preparation for action—it is action

• Learning from feelings as information, not final truth

• What it means to trust that nothing is wasted in God’s economy

• How pastors and church leaders can find peace and purpose amid decline or loss

• Why healing and joy are still possible, even after tragedy

Whether you’re navigating personal loss or leading through uncertainty in ministry, this conversation offers honesty, theological depth, and hard-won wisdom for finding grace when life doesn’t go according to plan.

Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell is a speaker, author, and consultant. She has taught at several schools including Yale and Baylor University. Media sources such as the New York Times, NPR, and the Washington Post have highlighted her research. Dr. Angela is the author of always on, The Gravity of Joy, and a new book, Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do. She’d love to connect with you on Facebook or Instagram @angelagorrell

Mentioned Resources:

🌐 Her website: https://www.angelagorrell.com/

📱 Her socials: @angelagorrell

📖 Her book: Braving Difficult Decisions

🎧 Episodes Referenced: Heather Thompson Day

🎧 Episodes Referenced: Martha Tatarnic

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Angela Williams Gorrell, Braving Difficult Decisions, Always On The Gravity of Joy, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr., Christian leadership, spiritual direction, surrender to God, prayer and healing, faith through suffering, meditation and Christian spirituality, grief and resilience, trauma and faith, pastoral care, nothing wasted in God’s economy, mainline church leadership, church decline and hope, progressive Christian spirituality

How do pastors and church leaders navigate ministry when the battles feel relentless? In this episode, Loren talks with Bishop Jeffrey V. Dudley Sr.—retired Air Force chaplain, pastor, and leadership coach. Drawing from his decades of service in the military and the church, Bishop Dudley shares candid reflections on leadership, spiritual practices, and the weight of ministry. He opens up about personal seasons of opposition, the temptation to over-spiritualize crises, and the vital importance of prayer, boundaries, and honest self-awareness. This conversation is a powerful reminder for pastors, leaders, and anyone in ministry that resilience is possible, that honesty matters, and that our hope remains anchored in Jesus.

Listeners will hear:

• Why “battles are inevitable, and preparation must be intentional”

• How to discern between authenticity and “bleeding on the people”

• The danger of over-spiritualizing crises—and how leaders can own responsibility

• Bishop Dudley’s vulnerable reflections on suicidal ideation and the hope that carried him through

• Why he insists, “You are not what you feel”

Dr. Geoffrey V. Dudley, Sr. is a retired Air Force Chaplain (Lt. Colonel), Bishop, author, and leadership coach. A lifelong minister and visionary leader, he holds a PhD in Organizational Leadership from Regent University, a Doctor of Ministry from Virginia Union University, a Master of Divinity from Virginia Union, a Master of Human Relations from the University of Oklahoma, and a Bachelor of Arts in Communication, Drama & Speech from UNC Greensboro. He also holds a Post-Master Education Specialist degree from the University of Memphis. Dr. Dudley is the founding pastor of New Life in Christ Church (O'Fallon, IL), one of the fastest-growing churches in the St. Louis metro area, and the CEO of New Life Community Development Corporation, which leads major community initiatives including a $20M affordable housing project. A John Maxwell Associate Trainer and author of six books—including Leading Through Storms—he also mentors leaders through iLeadAcademy.net and Changing Lives Ministries. He and his wife Glenda have two adult children engaged in ministry and nonprofit leadership.

Mentioned Resources:

📖 His Book: https://ivpress.com/leading-through-storms

🌐 His church website: https://www.nlicic.org

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Most Pastors would agree that the American church in the midst of a crisis of decline, as lagging attendance, giving, and influence continue to cause havoc in local congregations. Yet, despite all this, Andrew Root argues the real crisis that should keep pastors up at night isn't shrinking budgets or lessening participation--rather it is the realization that for most people, even many pastors, we can live and act as if God doesn't matter and doesn't even exist. In this conversation, we talk about the three stages of secularism that have impacted American Christianity, what it means to believe that "God is God," and why the only story churches need to proclaim is God's story.

Andrew Root (Ph.D., Princeton Theological Seminary) is the Carrie Olson Baalson professor of youth and family ministry at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations.  His recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline, When Church Stops Working, and The Church After Innovation. Andy has worked in congregations, parachurch ministries, and social service programs. He lives in St. Paul with his wife Kara, two children, Owen and Maisy, and their dog. When not reading, writing, or teaching, Andy spends far too much time watching TV and movies.

Previous Episode:

https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/andy-root/

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

In this episode, Dorcas Chang-Tozun joins the show to  talk about her personal faith journey, her thought-provoking book Social Justice for the Sensitive Soul, and her profound insights on social activism. Dorcas passionately emphasizes the significance of acknowledging the unique experiences of sensitive individuals within the realm of activism, urging listeners to broaden their understanding of what constitutes effective social change. Furthermore, she delves into the complex interplay between anger and social transformation, sheds light on the concept of resilience, and underscores the utmost importance of self-care in sustaining one's commitment to making a difference. 

Dorcas Cheng-Tozun is an award-winning writer, editor, speaker, communications consultant, and former Inc.com columnist. She is the author of multiple books including  Social Justice for the Sensitive Soul: How to Change the World in Quiet Ways (June 2023). Her work has appeared in The Wall Street Journal, Christianity Today, Image Journal, and dozens of other publications in the US, Asia, and Africa. She serves as the editorial director of PAX, a Christian nonprofit dedicated to inspiring and equipping the next generation of BIPOC contemplative activists and is a high school instructor of social innovation at Valley Christian Schools. Dorcas has nearly twenty years of experience as a nonprofit and social enterprise professional. She served as the first director of communications for d.light, one of the world's leading social enterprises, and has provided communications consulting for social-benefit companies around the world. She and her entrepreneur husband have been married for eighteen years and have two young sons.

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

David Emery joins the show to talk about why church structure is a significant obstacle in the church, as it can stifle the openness and potential for growth. He emphasizes the need for the structure to align with the vision and direction of the church, rather than becoming a hindrance. He also highlights the importance of theological humility and the willingness to listen. Emery also talks about his hopes for the future of Christianity, why he thinks there is a need for humility in mainline contexts, and why love and service to others continues to drive his ministry focus.

Rev. David Emery has served as Lead Pastor of Harvard Avenue Christian since March of 2020. David is a passionate preacher, compassionate pastor, and adept leader whose understanding of the Gospel and vision for the church help our congregation fulfill its mission to live and love like Jesus. David has a reputation for growing churches, reaching new people, and transforming lives in every church he has served throughout his ministry, which includes congregations in Arkansas, Texas, and Kentucky. He holds a B.A from TCU, and Master’s of Divinity from Vanderbilt. If you were to ask David what his favorite scripture passage is, he would tell you: “Whatever I’m preaching on this week!” An avid runner and multiple marathoner, when David isn’t on the trail or in the pulpit, he enjoys spending time with his wife, Teresa, and their children and grandchildren.

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

Rev. Gail Cafferata was heartbroken when the church she pastored closed its doors. It may have been the right decision, but it led to a million questions in her mind about her call, leadership, and future. In this episode, Gail interviews Loren about his own experience closing a church, and together they talk about some of the challenges, heartbreak, and experiences learned from their experiences, sharing wisdom from the book The Last Pastor which Gail wrote from a sociological study she conducted of  mainline pastors who served a church that closed. In the book, Rev. Cafferate shares the results of her study and the hard-won lessons learned by these courageous pastors.

The Rev. Gail Cafferata, Ph.D., is a practical theologian and retired Priest Associate at The Church of the Incarnation, Santa Rosa (Episcopal). She spent 25 years as a medical sociologist in universities, the Department of Health and Human Services and Children’s Hospital, Boston before ordination in 2002. After serving a congregation for nine years before it closed, she authored The Last Pastor: Faithfully Steering a Closing Church She continues to write and consult as a Visiting Researcher at Boston University School of Theology, and is available on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gailleecafferata/. She loves to spend time with her husband Bob and daughters and grandchildren, as well as playing in a community orchestra, birdwatching, gardening and sailing.

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

In this mid-season recap of the Future Christian Podcast, hosts Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic reflect on the topics and guests featured so far in season 14. They discuss their process for selecting guests and the podcast's focus on issues relevant to churches and pastors. They highlight themes such as church planting, reimagining church structures, and love for the church. They also discuss the importance of pastors' mental health and the need for support systems, while examining the financial aspects of church planting and uses of terms like "missional" and "missionary". 

Martha Tatarnic is the lead priest of St. George’s, a thriving downtown Anglican church in St. Catharines Ontario. Martha writes a regular blog for the Anglican Church of Canada, which can be found at medium.com. She is the author of The Living Diet:  A Christian Journey to Joyful Eating, an exploration of our relationship with food and our body through a Christian perspective and also her second book, Why Gather? The Hope and Promise of the Church.  Find out more about her at https://marthatatarnic.ca

Loren Richmond Jr. is a mission-driven leader with a unique combination of experience in church, nonprofits and affordable housing, holding an MBA with a Nonprofit emphasis and a Master of Divinity. As a servant leader, Loren possesses a calm, focused, and credible demeanor that empowers staff, along with a systems-driven and efficient approach to managing operations, fostering productivity even in heavy workloads. Loren's lifelong commitment to learning and diverse skill-sets enables visionary solutions to current and future organizational challenges, while his entrepreneurial approach has transformed organizations. 

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

Pastors and church planters need more support, but where should they look and what types of relationships should they seek? In this conversation, Pastor, church planter, and author Scott Nelson shares about the five essential relationships each ministry leader needs to have. They also discuss setting boundaries and finding the right kind of support in ministry, the redemptive nature of suffering, and the inner journey that clergy and ministers must go through. Scott emphasizes the importance of forgiveness, acceptance, and letting go of control. He encourages pastors to seek out support and not go alone.

Scott Nelson (M.Div, D.Min) is the church planter and lead pastor of Covenant Grove Church in Modesto, California. He also serves as a church planting coach and trainer, and he has spoken across the country on evangelism, discipleship formation, leadership development, and strategic planning. As part of his doctoral work, Scott performed qualitative research with dozens of church planters and coaches across the United States and Canada to find out what contributes to healthy pastoral ministry. Over and over again, the research proved that there were five types of relationships that planters and pastors needed in their lives in order to thrive in ministry. With strong Supply Lines, Scott discovered, pastors are protected from burnout and have the support they need for bigger dreams, wiser decisions, and healthier results.   Facebook – Scott.R.Nelson Instagram – 2penny_scott LinkedIn – scottnelson5

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

How can churches foster innovation and reinvent their ministry in today's changing world? Meghan Hatcher, the Director of the Innovation Laboratory at the Center for Youth Ministry Training, joins the pod to share ideas. Meghan talks about her personal experience of taking a break and returning to the church. She also explains the purpose and approach of the Innovation Lab, which aims to help faith communities reinvent ministry models across the whole church. Meghan emphasizes the importance of creating psychological safety and fostering inclusivity within churches. She also discusses measuring ministry effectiveness, the value of buy-in and democratized leadership, and supporting churches dealing with affiliation challenges. 

Meghan Hatcher currently serves as the director of the Innovation Laboratory, an initiative of the Center for Youth Ministry Training (CYMT). She holds a Bachelor of Journalism and Master of Science in Sustainable Development & Applied Sociology from the University of Missouri, and a Master of Divinity with a specialization in community engagement from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, D.C. The thread that runs throughout Meghan’s academic and professional experiences is the power of story to knit communities together around a collective vision. She is a graduate of The Life Stories Institute in Washington, D.C., and has a tremendous passion for guiding individuals to reflect on their personal stories and the timeless stories of faith. Meghan has served rural, urban, and suburban congregational settings in the areas of pastoral leadership, innovative ministry development, youth ministry, new church development, and community engagement. Meghan makes her home in Austin with her spouse Corey.

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

Do you remember that viral post about pastoral ministry? In this episode, we welcome the author of that piece, Rev. Alexander Lang, an ordained pastor and author. Martha Tatarnic hosts the conversation, and they discuss Lang's background and key points from his article, especially the emotional toll of being a pastor and the challenges of maintaining a declining institution. They also explore the challenges pastors face in navigating their personal emotions while fulfilling their pastoral duties. Lang believes the church is currently searching for its soul, having lost sight of what truly matters. His hope for the future is that the church can embrace God's unconditional love and return to the work of the gospel.

Rev. Alexander Lang is an ordained pastor in the Presbyterian Church (USA) who worked in church ministry for 20 years. Alex is the author of Restorative Faith, a book that recasts Christianity in a new light for the 21st century skeptic. Alex also hosts the Restorative Faith Podcast, which blends history, science, culture and scripture into thought provoking episodes. Alex’s interests include independent film, electronic music and deep conversation with people who question, doubt and want to dig into the most complex issues we face as humans. When he’s not working on books or the Restorative Faith Movement, Alex enjoys spending time with his wife and two sons.

https://religionnews.com/2023/09/11/meet-the-pastor-behind-that-quitting-the-church-essay/?fbclid=IwAR0kjMgf5y1WLKg8Fw2FXy9hN3Wah8OrxH9ClDWzvjswgtJ7dc-5elg0jhU

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

As more churches explore the opportunity of affordable housing, Rev. Melissa St. Clair shares the journey of developing her church's property. In this episode, we talk about the dream for Heartside Hill and its evolution over time, fundraising efforts and partnerships for the development of Heartside Hill, and how they built relationships with existing neighbors and gained community involvement. Melissa also shares the importance of connecting the project to the church's mission while also offering advice for pastors and churches in similar situations of transitioning church land.

Rev. Melissa St. Clair has served Heart of the Rockies Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Fort Collins, CO, since January 2013. She was called to succeed the congregation's founding pastor, Jeff Wright. After two years of serving as Associate Minister, she was installed as Senior Minister in January 2015. Melissa was ordained in 2008 at her home church, St. John’s United Church of Christ, Chambersburg, PA, where her immediate and extended family still reside. Her Master of Divinity is from Eden Theological Seminary (St. Louis, MO).

Melissa currently serves as Moderator for the Central Rocky Mountain Region and has previously served as chair of the Board of Stewards for the Center for Faith and Giving. She is an alumna of the Bethany Fellows and a graduate of Leadership Northern Colorado. She currently serves on the Leadership Team of the Ecumenical Circle of the Bethany Fellows. Melissa loves running the trails and camping the mountains of Colorado. She and her spouse, Ben, recently moved to the foothills of the Front Range where they savor the mountain views and the gravel road that gets them there. Her passion for affordable and attainable housing has grown out of their love for where they live and a desire to live in a sustainable, inclusive community.

Laura Stephens-Reed is the clergy coach Melissa references in the show. She helps clergy and congregations navigate transitions with faithfulness and curiosity and can be contacted at www.laurastephensreed.com.

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

These days, it seems like everyone is walking away from church. Not so for Ally Henny, who discusses in this episode the potential of the church and why she hasn't given up on it, despite its flaws and challenges. She believes that the church has a unique role in providing a sense of community and support, especially for marginalized groups. Ally also emphasizes the importance of the church in addressing social justice issues and making a positive difference in the world. Looking towards the future, Ally suggests that the church should focus on serving communities and actively engaging with the needs of society. She believes that the church has the potential to be a force for good and transformation, but it requires intentional action and a willingness to listen and learn from others.

Ally Henny is a writer, speaker, advocate-minister, and vice president of The Witness: A Black Christian Collective, an organization committed to encouraging, engaging, and empowering Black Christians toward liberation from racism. She completed her MDiv from Fuller Seminary with an emphasis in race, cultural identity, and reconciliation, and she hopes to lead a church someday. Ally has been leading conversations about race on her social media and blog, The Armchair Commentary, since 2014, and her posts reach millions each month. She is a proud Chicago Southsider.

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

What does it mean to lead the church toward vitality in a time of disruption, decline, and shifting cultural landscapes? In this episode, Loren sits down with Dr. F. Douglas Powe Jr., President of Phillips Theological Seminary.  Recorded live at the General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), this conversation explores how seminaries and congregations alike can foster authentic belonging, support diverse pathways into ministry, and reimagine theological education for the future. Doug reflects on his first six months at Phillips, the seminary’s bold tuition initiative, and the vision behind Bedford House—a new space designed to embody belonging for marginalized and underrepresented communities. He also shares his hopes for how churches can model unity and reconciliation in a divided world.

Topics include:

• Why belonging must come before believing for new generations

• How Bedford House embodies Phillips Seminary’s commitment to inclusion

• The challenges and opportunities of rural and small-church ministry

• Alternative pathways into ministry beyond the traditional M.Div.

• Why theological education must adapt without losing its core formation

• The role of social justice engagement in calling new leaders

• Dr. Powe’s hopes for the church in an age of disruption and division

Rev. F. Douglas Powe Jr., PhD is President of Phillips Theological Seminary in Tulsa, Okla., where he leads the seminary in its work toward deep learning, faithful leadership and global impact. An ordained elder in The United Methodist Church, Dr. Powe is a respected scholar, teacher, and author whose work explores congregational vitality, urban ministry, and innovative approaches to evangelism. Before leading Phillips, he served as Director of the Lewis Center for Church Leadership and James C. Logan Professor of Evangelism at Wesley Theological Seminary. His books include Sustaining While Disrupting, The Adept Church, and Transforming Evangelism. A graduate of Ohio Wesleyan University, Emory University’s Candler School of Theology, and Emory’s Graduate Division of Religion, Dr. Powe is widely sought after for his insights on faith, leadership, and the changing ministry environment.

Mentioned Resources:

📖 Book: https://www.cokesbury.com/The-Adept-Church?vsl=2487

📖 Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506479200/Sustaining-While-Disrupting

🌐 Phillps Seminary: https://ptstulsa.edu/

🎧 Past Episode with Doug Powe: Sustaining While Disrupting

🎧 Past Episode with Doug Powe: The Adept Church

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What is the role of restlessness in our life of faith? In this episode, Casey Tygrett joins the pod to talk about how suffering can be a teacher, the changing images of God, and the impact of the pandemic on spirituality. Casey emphasizes the importance of seeking guidance from spiritual directors or counselors and encourages listeners to embrace restlessness as an opportunity for growth. Casey also touches on the shifting dynamics in churches during the pandemic and the concept of purpose and trust in God.

Casey Tygrett is an author and spiritual director living in the Chicago area. He oversees the spiritual direction practice at Soul Care (www.soulcare.com), and is the author of three books including The Practice of Remembering: Discovering the Place of Memories In Our Spiritual Life and The Gift of Restlessness: A Spirituality for Unsettled Seasons. He is also the host of the “Restlessness is a Gift” podcast. Casey’s passion is helping people pursue Jesus’ way of spiritual transformation in the midst of everyday circumstances. You can find more information about and resources from Casey on his website: www.caseytygrett.com or on social media (@caseytygrett). 

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

Craig Greenfield joins the show to talk about his journey of unpacking his cultural baggage and seeing the gospel through new eyes while living in Cambodia. He emphasizes the importance of communal practices in his faith, particularly in his Christian community in Vancouver. Craig also discusses his book "Subversive Mission" and reframes the roles of apostles, prophets, and evangelists as catalysts, allies, and seekers. He highlights the importance of cultural understanding and local ownership in community transformation. 

Social entrepreneur, activist and author, Craig Greenfield is passionate about God’s heart for the world’s most vulnerable. Craig is the founder and director of Alongsiders International, a fast-growing movement of young Christians reaching the world’s poorest children. A storyteller and inspirational speaker, Craig’s passion is to amplify the voice of the poor, communicating God’s heart for the least in churches, conferences and colleges around the world. Craig is happily married to Nay, a Cambodian-New Zealander and they have two young children: Jayden and Micah.

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

In times of uncertainty and change, we already have everything within us to transform and adapt, says Dr. Marcia McFee, a professor, worship designer, author, preacher, and ritual artist. In this episode, Dr. McFee talks about the connection between worship and justice and her concept of a "metamorphosis moment" in the post-pandemic transition. Dr. McFee emphasizes the importance of curiosity, imagination, and adaptability in shaping the future of the church. She also explores the need for flexible worship options, reimagining church spaces, and integrating theology and symbolism into physical and virtual sanctuaries. 

Dr. Marcia McFee is a professor, worship designer, author, preacher and ritual artist. Drawing on a first career in professional dance and musical theater and equipped with a Master's in Theology and a PhD in Liturgical Studies and Ethics, she understands the role of any worship artist in the church as that of creating extraordinary portals through which communities journey with the Spirit. She is the author of The Worship Workshop, Spiritual Adventures in the Snow, and most recently Think Like a Filmmaker: Sensory-Rich Worship for Unforgettable Messages. Find out more about her Worship Design Studio liturgical resources, Elevation Retreat, and Ireland pilgrimage.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

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I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

Geoff Mitchell joins the pod to discuss his experiences in leading and guiding churches, offering insights into the challenges and opportunities within the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) denomination. Geoff emphasizes the importance of creating vibrant and transformative churches that are deeply rooted in the power of the gospel. He also explores the unique aspects of leading churches within this denomination and how they contribute to the overall mission of spreading the message of Christ.

Geoff Mitchell is Senior Minister at Lindenwood Christian Church, where his goal is to help people discover a life that does more than leave them exhausted and disillusioned. A native of Kentucky, Geoff grew up on the Mississippi River in Keokuk, Iowa. He spent 13 years in Texas, earning a Bachelor of Arts in Religion and Master of Divinity from Texas Christian University. He is currently working on his dissertation to complete to his Doctor of Ministry.  He has served churches in Fort Worth and Keokuk. He has also started two new congregations, in Aledo, Texas and suburban Chicago.

As a note to listeners, this episode was recorded live, in person at the conference hall of the General Assembly of the Christian Church, Disciples of Christ.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

In this special episode of the Future Christian Podcast, recorded live from the General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Loren Richmond Jr is joined by guest Dennis Sanders to delve into the current state of the denomination and the unique challenges faced by local congregations.

Together, they explore the pressing need to support and sustain existing congregations, recognizing the vital role they play in today's society. The discussion also delves into recent updates to the denomination's bylaws, highlighting the importance of staying informed and engaged with the evolving landscape of the church.

Dennis and Loren also touch on the topic of incorporating pop songs into worship services, examining the potential benefits and challenges of bridging contemporary culture with traditional practices. They emphasize the significance of prayer and theology in guiding congregations towards a deeper understanding of their faith and the role of the church in advancing the gospel.

Throughout the conversation, the importance of dialogue, relationships, and understanding is underscored as essential tools for navigating divisive issues within the church. Loren expresses his concern about declining numbers and the need for a compelling narrative to revitalize the denomination, sparking a thought-provoking reflection on the future of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Future Christian is supported by:

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes guest Martha Titanic, an Anglican priest and author. They discuss various topics including the importance of diverse perspectives, the role of social media in engaging younger generations, the tension between community care and church growth, and the need for discernment and prayer when navigating the future. 

Throughout the episode, Loren and Martha mentioned several impactful conversations they had with various guests. From the insights shared by authors like Ferguson and Packard to practical advice on bi-vocational ministry from Eric Hoke, it's clear that the Future Christian Podcast is a treasure trove of wisdom and inspiration. The episode ends with a powerful message of hope and the transformative power of the gathered body of Christ. Despite the challenges within the church and the polarization in society, Loren and Martha encourage us to have faith and work

Martha Tatarnic is the lead priest of St. George’s, a thriving downtown Anglican church in St. Catharines Ontario. Martha writes a regular blog for the Anglican Church of Canada, which can be found at medium.com. She is the author of The Living Diet:  A Christian Journey to Joyful Eating, an exploration of our relationship with food and our body through a Christian perspective and also her second book, Why Gather? The Hope and Promise of the Church.  Find out more about her at https://marthatatarnic.ca

Loren Richmond Jr. is a mission-driven leader with a unique combination of experience in church, nonprofits and affordable housing, holding an MBA with a Nonprofit emphasis and a Master of Divinity. As a servant leader, Loren possesses a calm, focused, and credible demeanor that empowers staff, along with a systems-driven and efficient approach to managing operations, fostering productivity even in heavy workloads. Loren's lifelong commitment to learning and diverse skill-sets enables visionary solutions to current and future organizational challenges, while his entrepreneurial approach has transformed organizations.

https://ihelppastorsgetjobs.thinkific.com/ Use code 'futurechristian'

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

With declining church attendance and continued budget tightening, more and more pastors are struggling to earn what they need through a church job alone. During the conversation, Eric Hoke provides valuable insights on career paths that pastors can explore outside of the church. He advises pastors to tailor their resumes to the job they are applying for, highlighting their transferable skills and experiences. Eric emphasizes the importance of co-vocational ministry and hopes to see more churches mobilized and maximized to go beyond mission together.  As a co-vocational church planter himself, Eric understands the challenges and opportunities that come with balancing ministry and a secular job. He encourages pastors to embrace the co-vocational model and leverage their skills and experiences to make a positive impact in both the church and the marketplace. 

Eric Hoke is a Covocational Church Planter and Proven Marketplace Professional specializing in Staffing & Corporate Training. He has worked with thousands of eager career changers from around the world including Church Planters, Missional Church Leaders and Pastors transitioning from ministry to break into the Corporate World to sustain their ministries.  With a 15+ years of ministry experience, a Masters of Arts in Biblical Literature and a 3 year fellowship with Redeemer City to City, Eric understands Pastors and what it takes to lead a church in the modern world. A sought after international speaker, he has trained over 100K+ professionals from brands like Uber, American Express, Moderna, and Salesforce and is widely regarded in the corporate world. His insights have been featured on podcasts, online and in print on platforms like Relevant Magazine, NewBreed Training and his NYC Church Plant story is featured in the book Next Wave: Discovering the 21st Century Church.  As a certified Master Coach, he can help any Pastor with the problem of how-to-rebrand confusion and break into the Corporate World to supplement their income and build a ministry of sustainability for their families. 

https://ihelppastorsgetjobs.thinkific.com/ use code 'futurechristian' 

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Reverend Dr. Juan Sarmiento, Executive Presbyter of the San Fernando Presbytery, joins the podcast to talk about his role and perspective on clergy burnout. He also discusses his faith journey and spiritual practices, the challenges of being a clergy member, and the importance of recognizing the value of institutions. The conversation emphasizes the need for humility, openness to new ideas, and respectful dialogue within the church.

Juan J. Sarmiento serves as executive presbyter of the San Fernando Presbytery. In his role, Juan provides pastoral and strategic leadership to a growing network of congregations and ministries associated with the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A) in the Northwest region of Los Angeles. Born in Venezuela and ordained in Brazil, he has been in ministry and nonprofit leadership for more than three decades. Juan's graduate studies include programs at Fuller, San Francisco, Columbia, and Louisville theological seminaries. He has been active in helping strengthen church and leadership development movements in four continents.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

What if the goal of the Christian life isn't how we behave or even how we believe, but how we love? In this episode, Jessie Cruickshank joins the show to talk about discipleship, head-knowledge vs. heart-knowledge, and why facts don't produce transformation. In the conversation, she shares why churches needed to be emphasizing relational discipleship making and community building in order to create lasting disciples of Jesus.

Jessie Cruickshank holds an M.Ed. from Harvard in mind, brain, and education. She is an ordained minister and a nationally recognized expert in disciplemaking and the neuroscience of transformation. She has spent two decades applying neuroeducation research to discipleship, ministry training, experiential education, and organization development. Jessie is respected globally as a leader in missiological thought and a church and denominational consultant and is the founder of [Who]ology. Jessie lives and adventures with her family in Colorado.

Previous Episode:

https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/jessie-cruickshank/

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

In this episode, Rev. Dr. David Anderson Hooker, founder and principal of Counter Stories Consulting, joins the pod to discuss the power of narrative. Dr. Hooker shares his background in mediation, conflict transformation, peace building, and trauma healing, and how he uses narrative approaches to envision a shared future that incorporates everyone. The conversation also touches on the importance of understanding the root problem and creating a context for healthier habits, as well as examining the narratives and stories that shape congregational spaces. 

David Anderson Hooker PhD, JD, M. Div. is the Founder and Principal Narrator for CounterStories Consulting, llc. CounterStories engages as a conversation and visioning partner with international, national and local civil society organizations, religious groups, organization leaders, and social entrepreneurs to craft narratives of their preferred futures and align organizational structures and internal practices in furtherance of their constructed narratives. For almost 40 years, Hooker has served as mediator, restorative circle steward, facilitator, community builder, scholar, and advocate. He is a graduate of Morehouse College (BS); Washington University in St. Louis (AM); University of Massachusetts in Amherst (MPH & MPA); The Emory University School of Law (JD); The Candler School of Theology at Emory University (M. Div); and University of Tilburg in Tilburg, Netherlands (Ph.D.). Hooker is also an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ (UCC). In all of his preparation, he still believes his best professional training is as an understudy in community theatre and as a student of urban partner dances such as Detroit Urban Ballroom, Chicago Stepping, and the Cleveland Hand dance.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

What does it mean to build safer, healthier churches in a world where abuse and misuse of power have left deep scars? In this conversation, Loren talks with Dr. Lisa Compton and Taylor Patterson, co-editors of Skills for Safeguarding: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church. Drawing on decades of counseling and trauma work, they explore how churches can recognize unhealthy dynamics, respond with integrity, and create cultures where both leaders and congregants can flourish. This is a vital conversation for pastors, lay leaders, and anyone who cares about the long-term health and witness of the church.

Topics include:

• Why integrity, not charisma, is essential for church leadership

• The difference between protecting a church’s brand and serving the people of God

• The “tripod of relational safety”: safe self, safe community, and safe ministry

• Distinguishing between guilt and shame, and how each shapes spiritual formation

• Why forgiveness does not always mean reconciliation

• Practical first steps churches can take toward safeguarding

Taylor Patterson is an instructor in the counseling department at Regent University. She worked for several years as a mental health counselor at a nonprofit agency serving survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault, and human trafficking and now sees clients in private practice, specializing in adult with a history of childhood trauma. She served as co-editor for "Safeguarding Skills: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church,” a textbook for seminaries, parachurch ministries, and local churches, and has published in peer-reviewed journals. Taylor’s research interests include interpersonal violence, compassion fatigue prevention and treatment, and trauma-informed counselor education and supervision.

Dr. Lisa Compton is an Associate Professor and Director of the Ph.D. in Counselor Education program at Regent University. With over 29 years of experience in the mental health field, she is a licensed clinical social worker (LCSW), certified trauma treatment specialist (CTTS), and compassion fatigue educator (CFE). Dr. Compton has been a conference keynote speaker, presented internationally on trauma-related topics, and has been featured on CBN News discussing domestic violence and sexual trauma. She is the co-author of Preparing for Trauma Work in Clinical Mental Health and Safeguarding Skills: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church. Her research focuses on secondary trauma and trauma pedagogy with numerous published articles, including "Absorption Vulnerability" in Traumatology (2024).

Mentioned Resources:

📖 Their book: https://www.ivpress.com/skills-for-safeguarding

🌐 Lisa's Website: https://drlisacompton.com/

🎧 Mike Cosper on the Dangers of Ideology in Church

🎧 May Young on Biblical Lament  

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Is managing the institution wearing you out as a pastor or church leader? Does Christianity feel too isolated for earth and creation? In this episode, we talk with Matt Syrdal, a pastor and spiritual innovator on the challenges of maintaining institutions and the importance pursuing passion projects as an opportunity for pastors to live fully into their calling and be visionary for the future church. Syrdal also talks about his eco-spirituality projects and why he believes Christianity needs to be "re-wilded" toward a more experiential and mystical faith. 

Rev. Matt Syrdal is a father of two and an ordained pastor living near the front range of the ancestral Rocky Mountains in Denver, Colorado. He has been influenced by the Christian mystical tradition, Jungian psychology, and the visionary lineage of Animas Valley Institute as a certified nature-based human development guide, currently in-training as a Soul Initiation Guide. In 2014 Matt founded Church of Lost Walls, a Denver Wild Church seeking to step across the threshold into a community based on sacred-reciprocity, relationship with the watershed, wild sacramental worship, and a commitment to ecological education and justice. In 2018 Matt co-founded Seminary of the Wild, an eco-ministry leadership and movement hub for a wild spirituality. Matt is has been a contributing writer for Progressive Christianity and currently writing a book called “Mythic Christ.” In 2022, Matt began his life’s work developing a Mystery School and launching a yearlong eco-depth training program called “Awakening Mythic Imagination.” Matt  has been mentoring women and men through dreamwork, deep imagery, leadership coaching, ceremony and ritual, and personal mythwork as channels for accessing the deep Self and living with greater authenticity and purpose in service to the world. 

Learn more about Mythic Christ Mystery School at www.mythicchrist.com

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Are you feeling the pressure to constantly innovate and be competitive in both work and daily life? Do you ever wonder if this focus on innovation is truly necessary for good ministry, or if it is simply a response to the fear of decline? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, we talk with Andrew Root about innovation in the church, the limits of creativity and singularity, and the dangers of making the church the start of it's own story. More, we also talk about how the constant demand for pastors to be creative and innovative pushes them toward behaving more as a manager and less as a pastor.

Andrew Root is the Carrie Olson Baalson Professor of Youth and Family Ministry at Luther Seminary, USA. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations.  His most recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline (Baker, 2022), The Congregation in a Secular Age (Baker, 2021), The End of Youth Ministry? (Baker, 2020), The Pastor in a Secular Age: Ministry to People Who No Longer Need God (Baker, 2019), Faith Formation in a Secular Age (Baker, 2017), and Exploding Stars, Dead Dinosaurs, and Zombies: Youth Ministry in the Age of Science (Fortress Press, 2018). Andy has worked in congregations, parachurch ministries, and social service programs. He lives in St. Paul with his wife Kara, two children, Owen and Maisy, and their dog. When not reading, writing, or teaching, Andy spends far too much time watching TV and movies.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Trying to navigate the changing landscape of church? In this episode with Dr. Josh Packard and Dr. Todd Ferguson, we discuss their book Stuck and delve into the challenges faced by clergy members, particularly those with a Master of Divinity (MDiv) degree. But it's not all doom and gloom - they also suggest solutions for struggling congregations and talk about the future of Christianity. With a focus on navigating the current cultural conversation around LGBTQ+ issues and preserving diversity of expressions while expanding them, this podcast offers valuable insights into the need for adaptation and innovation in the church.

Dr. Josh Packard is a sociologist and researcher.  He was the founding Executive Director of Springtide Research Institute and former professor at the University of Northern Colorado, where he was also the Executive Director of the Social Research Lab. He currently serves as the Vice President of Strategy for the National Catholic Educational Association.  Josh is the author of the ground-breaking book Church Refugees: Sociologists reveal why people are DONE with church but not their faith as well as numerous academic articles about faith and religion. Find him online @drjoshpackard

Dr. Todd Ferguson is a sociologist of religion at the University of Mary Hardin-Baylor in Belton, Texas. His research focuses on the social organization of religion, specifically congregations and their clergy. He is fascinated with the fact that religions are more than ideas and beliefs. They create structures and communities that profoundly affect people’s lives. He earned his Ph.D. in sociology at Baylor University. Before becoming a sociologist, Todd earned a Master of Divinity from Duke Divinity School and was a pastor in Houston.  Todd is married to Emma, a veterinarian, and they have two wonderful children.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

The journey of following Jesus can be at times lonely, isolating, and unfulfilling. What if that's all part of the process?  Counselor, professor, and author Mark Dorn joins the pod to talk about why he believes Christians and especially pastors and church leaders need to lean in to their feelings of longing and unfulfillment, why he thinks chasing after fulfillment is antithetical to the way of Jesus, and why darkness is a precious opportunity. 

Mark S. Dorn is Professor of Music at Colorado Christian University, as well as a private practice counselor.  In his work at CCU, Mark leads the Symphonic Band and Jazz Ensemble, teaches trumpet lessons, and is actively involved in the mentoring of undergraduate students.  He is both a freelance musician and conductor, as well as an author. With a longtime investment in discipleship and counseling, his curiosity about how knowing God can lead to personal transformation has propelled him into counseling, writing, and a lot of musing about the journey. He is married to Jill, with four grown children, a new baby, and ten grandchildren, and lives in Morrison, Colorado where he is never far from his next mountain adventure.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Since pre-Covid times, the United Methodist Church has been embroiled in conflict and disagreement over human sexuality, resulting in the splits and splintering playing out over the last several months. In this episode Pastor, author, and Family Systems expert Jack Shitama examines the rift via a FST approach, talking about how the conflict arose, what he thinks are some of the problems, and how he thinks things will play out.

Jack Shitama is an author, teacher, speaker and coach. His family systems approach to leadership helps congregational and nonprofit leaders achieve their best spiritually, physically and professionally. He is an avid learner with a passion for taking the most recent secular learnings and applying them to spiritual leadership. Jack is also an ordained elder in The United Methodist Church and currently serves as the Executive Director at Pecometh Camp & Retreat Ministries in Centreville, MD. He is also the Director for the Center for Vital Leadership.

Jack is the author 3 books, including of Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety, 

Jack and his wife of 40 years, Jodi, have four adult children and three grandchildren. Jack is an avid runner and has completed the Baltimore Marathon three times. He plays guitar and bass in the Jacob’s Well Band, his church’s worship band. He enjoys all kinds of sports, cooking, reading, traveling and, most of all, seeing people experience spiritual growth.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Everyone seems to be focused on the same thing, trying to re-vitalize and re-charge declining churches. But what if everything we're trying is emblematic of the decline? Author and church-planter Rohadi Nagassar joins the pod to talk about why common answers to church decline are Christendom-centric, the problem with seeking answers from "exceptional" churches, and why he believes churches need to find allies from within God's kingdom, not simply the same denomination. Rohadi also talks about how to protect yourself as a leader when risk-takers are often "left outside to freeze."

Rohadi writes and speaks on the topics of decolonizing, liberation, and deconstructing western Christianity. Listen to his podcast: Faith in a Fresh Vibe. He has planted two churches including an inner-city multi-ethnic expression called Cypher Church. He has also written extensively in the areas of missions and church leadership including his book, Thrive. Ideas to lead the church in post-Christendom. Rohadi’s latest book, When We Belong. Reclaiming Christianity on the Margins, from Herald Press. He lives in Canada, on Treaty 7 Lands, otherwise known as Calgary, and holds a Business Certificate from Mount Royal College, a BA in Economics from the University of Calgary, and a Master of Divinity from Canadian Theological Seminary.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

"Where does it hurt? And how can we help?" These are the words that led a small, dying church in Texas to Breakthrough! In this conversation with Pastor Dawn Weaks, we talk about being the leaders the church needs, how to guide a church through moving locations, and knowing what stuff to hang on to and what to leave behind. Dawn also talks about how the crisis of the pandemic and the flurry of the move gave momentum for change and new life. A must-listen for small-church pastors trying to lead growth and revitalization in church.

Rev. Dawn Weaks is the author of Breakthrough:Trusting God for Big Change In Your Church and Travel Guide to Christian Faith along with many other published articles and sermons. Her B.A. is from Baylor University, her M.Div. from Brite Divinity School at Texas Christian University, and her D.Min from St. Paul School of Theology. She was ordained in the Southern Baptist church before becoming a Disciples of Christ minister. She has pastored FCC Miami, Texas, FCC Rowlett, Texas, Raytown Christian Church of Missouri, and currently is co-pastor at Connection Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) along with her husband, Joe. Connection is the third century-old congregation she has led to discover bold, new purpose in ministry. 

Facebook:@dweaks Instagram:@ddweaks Twitter:@dawndw

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Pastors and church leaders often face the pressure to "perform," whether that means always appearing as spiritually confident, emotionally intact, or even just always showing up as the idealized version of themselves. In our age of authenticity, how can pastors and church leaders balance the need to "perform" in some capacity while also being true to themselves? In this conversation with Paul Romig-Leavitt and Brian Davis, two veteran worship leaders who know what it's like to "put on a show" for thousands of people at a time, we talk about handling the pressures and how to lead in a healthy and sustainable manner.

Brian has been leading worship in the Denver-metro area for the last 25 years and has built relationships with dozens of churches all over the city. Authenticity and empathy have been hallmarks of Brian’s leadership, and his intention is to use these attributes to coach other worship leaders and inspire greater creativity and deeper spiritual practice in the local church. Brian has three daughters, and he and his wife, Jess, live in Lakewood, CO. He also serves part-time as the Worship Arts Director at New Denver Church.

Paul has been a worship leader and pastor in the greater Denver area since 2001 working in full-time positions in churches such as Crossroads Community Church in Parker, The Refuge in Broomfield, and Restoration Church in Denver. Along with working as a guest worship leader in many other churches in Colorado, Paul also works with the Aspen Institute in Aspen CO as the Production Manager for the Aspen Ideas Festival as well as a director with the Denver video production company Colorado Arts Productions. Paul is the Co-author of “Cue-Lines,” a collection of plays and sketches he co-wrote with Greg Stier for the Dare 2 Share conferences. He lives in Broomfield CO with his wife and two daughters.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Despite efforts to include and make space for diversity, churches often do the opposite through their language, spaces, and architecture. In this conversation, Kimmothy Cole talks about what it means to create spaces where all are included, highlights the importance of knowing your community, and how pastors and church leaders can use her book in their churches.

Kimmothy Cole is a community artist working with ritual and gathering as tools for radical change. Their work prioritizes the creation of shared culture through a decolonizing lens. Cole is an accomplished visual, musical and performance artist, bringing immersive experiences into mundane spaces. Their performance and ritual work has been featured in festivals, events and venues across the US. They have certificates in Embodied Healing and Movement Chaplaincy, and their first Book A Liturgy for All Bodies: New Words for a New World available from Cyclical Publishing.

Support Kimmothy at https://www.patreon.com/TheRootedRitual

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

When it comes to church growth and revitalization, church governance isn't a topic that often comes to the forefront. Yet, according to Sean Bublitz, poor church governance is often a significant factor in stuck, declining churches. In this conversation, we talk about why pastors and church leaders should pay more attention to church governance, why when it comes to church boards bigger isn't better, and why voting should happen less often - not more. If you've ever felt like you're running into a brick wall with your organizational structures, you're going to want to listen to this.

Sean Bublitz has spent time over the past two decades at Community Christian Church (Naperville, IL) and Granger Community Church (Granger, IN) serving in weekend service, arts, and senior leadership roles. For the past 5 years, he has served as a ministry consultant and on the leadership team at The Unstuck Group. Sean lives with his wife and 5 kids in the South Bend, IN area.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Recorded live from the 2025 General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Memphis, TN, Loren is joined once again by pastor and podcaster Dennis Sanders for a candid conversation about the state and future of the denomination. They reflect on what’s changed since past gatherings, the unique role and challenges of General Assembly in a time of declining attendance, and the ongoing tension between institutional loyalty and openness to diverse theological voices. From the missed opportunity of a revival resolution to the practical realities of costs, exhibitor layouts, and programming balance, Loren and Dennis bring both deep care and honest critique. 

The conversation also moves beyond denominational borders—raising questions relevant to mainline and evangelical contexts alike:

• How should denominations engage in political advocacy when their cultural influence has waned?

• What would it take to be truly inclusive of conservative, moderate, and progressive voices?

• Where might revival come from—and how will we know it when we see it?

Dennis Sanders is an ordained Disciples of Christ minister and lead pastor of First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota.  A native of Flint, Michigan and big fan of the Detroit Tigers and Lions, Dennis is also a communications specialist for a Lutheran congregation in the Twin Cities and is the host of the Church and Main podcast, which tries to live out Karl Barth’s quote of reading the Bible and the newspaper and interpreting the news through the Bible.  Dennis lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel and their cats.

Mentioned Resources:

🎧 Last GA Episode with Dennis: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-fgenv-1476ff7

📱 Dennis instagram: @adventcelina

📖 Mixed Ecology Book: https://www.churchpublishing.org/embracingthemixedecology

🌐 Ben Crosby's Substack: https://substack.com/@bencrosby

🌐 Jeff Gill's Substack: https://substack.com/@knapsack

🎧 Dennis Sanders: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-q2e35-134587d

🎧 Church and Main Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/church-and-main/id1660817140

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

The work of a good pastor or church leader, according to pastor and church planter Aurelia Davila Pratt, is to make space - to be a spacemaker. And while she understand that there are many who have chosen to leave church for sake of their own healing, she also believes that it is essential that we make space for others, and most importantly, for the Spirit. In this conversation, we talk about what it means to make space for the Spirit, for real critique, and for others to heal and re-imagine.

Aurelia Dávila Pratt (MDiv, LMSW) is the lead pastor of Peace of Christ Church, a radically loving community in Round Rock, Texas. Named by Sojourners as one of “Ten Christian Women Shaping the Church in 2022”, Aurelia is also the author of A Brown Girl’s Epiphany: Reclaim Your Intuition and Step into Your Power and the co-host of the Nuance Tea Podcast. She is also a licensed master of social work, who currently serves as chair of the Board of Advocates at the Diana R. Garland School of Social Work. She regularly contributes articles for Progressing Spirit, Alliance of Baptists, and Good Faith Media. Find her on Instagram @revaureliajoy where she is reimagining faith and theology via spoken and written word.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Music isn't the main point in church, says singer and songwriter Spencer LaJoye, but churches need to decide what is. LaJoye joins the pod to talk about how music can be used for good in a church, and when it it's not. Spencer also shares advice for churches trying to become more inclusive, and what the one thing is they would change about music in church spaces.

Spencer LaJoye is a folk/pop singer songwriter, violinist, and vocal loop artist in Boston, MA, who believes everyone is made of the good stuff. A 2021 Kerrville New Folk Songwriting Competition winner, LaJoye (luh-JOY) makes music to tell the truth and return to their body as a queer person in recovery from American Christian evangelicalism. Delivering Broadway-esque melodies accompanied by a weathered dreadnought, their performances are equal parts confident quirk and elegant storytelling. The easiest way to support Spencer and stay connected is to join their community on Patreon.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

So your church is struggling and maintaining an aging building is no longer feasible. What do you do next? Pastor Dennis Sanders shares about his own church's experience navigating this difficult decision. Dennis shares how the conversation started, what was the tipping point, liturgies for leaving, and what they plan to do with the proceeds. Through it all, Dennis shares why keeps him hopeful for his church and why they still want to try.

A native of Flint, Michigan, Dennis is an ordained minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). He received his bachelor's in journalism from Michigan State University and his master's of divinity from Luther Seminary.  He’s been a communications professional working for various nonprofits for over 20 years. From 2008 until 2013 he was the Associate Pastor at First Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Minneapolis.  Since 2013, he's been the Pastor at First Christian Church of St. Paul in Roseville, MN . He lives in Minneapolis with his husband, Daniel.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Church planting is the R & D arm of denominations, says pastor and church planter Jonah Overton. Having launched a new church, Jonah shares about the story of Zoa MKE Church and key aspects along the starting process. They also emphasize that success is not a reflection on a leader's faithfulness, encourage pastors and leaders to have prophetic imagination, and understand that something not working doesn't mean it's a failure.

Rev. Jonah P. Overton (they/them) is a community organizer, creator of the podcasts “Jonah & the Peacock” and “Christian Queeries,” and the lead pastor of Zao MKE Church in Milwaukee, WI. As a young queer and trans clergy person, Jonah has been called into ministry to build the church as queer space and organize communities and churches towards justice and liberation.

tiktok & instagram: @rev_jonah, @zaomke

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

How does one lead faithfully in a time of collapse? Michael Chan joins the pod to talk about an article he co-wrote with Dwight Zscheile. In this conversation, we talk about what inspired the article, the biblical precedent from the prophet Jeremiah on leading through collapse and dealing with denial, and knowing what are the right questions to ask. Chan also reminds church leaders that denominational collapse is not that same as the failure of the gospel. 

Dr. Michael Chan is executive director for faith and learning at Concordia College in Moorhead, Minnesota.  Prior to that, he was associate professor of Old Testament at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minn. He joined Luther Seminary after completing his Ph.D. at Emory University and a year of research and teaching at the University of Helsinki. He is a graduate of Luther Seminary (M.A. in biblical theology) and Pacific Lutheran University (B.A. in elementary education). As the executive director for faith and learning, Dr. Chan directs the Lorentzsen Center for Faith and Work and the Dovre Center for Faith and Learning, guides Concordia’s interfaith relationships, and oversees the work of Campus Ministry. Read the article we discussed here:

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

In many mainline church contexts, pastors and leaders often spend countless hours wishing things were different and worrying about what's next. Anglican Priest, author, and runner Martha Tatarnic proposes a different way, encouraging pastors and leaders to embrace "ultrarealism," a running philosophy that encourages one to focus on what's actually happening and embrace it. In our conversation, we talk about why ultrarealism isn't about giving up,  why an ultrareal church can't be anything other than an anti-Designer community, and what the big risk is in an ultrareal church.

Martha Tatarnic is the lead priest of St. George’s, a thriving downtown Anglican church in St. Catharines Ontario. Martha writes a regular blog for the Anglican Church of Canada, which can be found at medium.com. She is the author of The Living Diet:  A Christian Journey to Joyful Eating, an exploration of our relationship with food and our body through a Christian perspective and also her second book, Why Gather? The Hope and Promise of the Church.  Find out more about her at https://marthatatarnic.ca

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Having served in local churches his entire life, Jonathan Foster had a startling realization: most Christians don't love themselves. Seeing so many Christians struggling beneath the weight of shame and the assumption that God didn't like them any more than they liked himself, Foster believed there had to be a better way. In this podcast, we talk about Foster's journey led him down a path of deconstruction, but also reconstruction, as he realized that our only hope is love.

Jonathan Foster is an award-winning and amazon best-selling author. He recently received his doctorate through NorthWind Seminary. The author of two books, The Reconstuctionists and his dissertation turned book Theology of Consent: Mimetic Theory in an Open and Relational Universe. He's the founder of lovehaiti.org, has three children, and one life-long partner. You can find out more about him at jonathanfosteronline.com.

Social handles

twitter: jonathan_foster

podcast: jonathan_foster

patreon: jonathan_foster

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Forged in the furnace of U.S. segregation, the Black Church is the pillar of African American communities across the country. As such, it has a powerful testimony and incredible lessons that can be shared still today. Author and leader Freda Sampson joins the pod to talk about the history of the Black Church, what distinguishes Black Churches from other protestant churches, and what are the biggest challenges facing Black Churches today.

Freda G. Sampson is an advocate for equity, justice and radical inclusion.  She is entrepreneur, creative, and author. Her passion stems from growing up and observing her father, Rev. Dr. Frederick G. Sampson, II, a civil rights leader and pastor, fight for equality for all people. Witnessing that love in action has formed the direction of her personal and professional journey. A diversity and inclusion professional, Freda provides consulting, training and facilitation services to corporations, governmental agencies and organizations throughout Michigan and Canada on diversity, inclusion, and cultural competency.

Find more books on the MSU Bias Busters series here:

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Many of the things we think we know about religion and politics in America simply aren't true, says Ryan Burge, and he has the data to back it up. As a professor, researcher, and pastor Ryan Burge has spent years exploring and now debunking many common myths around Abortion, Born-again experiences, and the so-called "Nones." In this episode, we talk about some of the myths and what church leaders should understand instead about American culture.

Ryan P. Burge is an assistant professor of political science at Eastern Illinois University. Author of numerous journal articles, he is the cofounder of and a frequent contributor to Religion in Public, a forum for scholars of religion and politics to make their work accessible to a general audience. Burge is a pastor in the American Baptist Church and is the author of The Nones and 20 Myths about Religion and Politics in America

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Between the historical baggage of colonialist mission endeavors of the past and the consumer-oriented "selfie mission" focus of present day, many churches and church leaders find themselves at a loss when trying to figure out how practice honest and authentic mission in the way of Jesus. Author and veteran missionary Hunter Farrell joins the pod to talk about the what lessons can be learned from past mistakes, opportunities for companionship and mutual mission in the present, and ideas for pastors and churches trying to plan mission trips.

Hunter Farrell serves as the Director of the World Mission Initiative of Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, having served 30 years as a Presbyterian mission co-worker in Democratic Republic of Congo and Peru, Area Coordinator and Director of World Mission for the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). Farrell earned his doctorate in cultural anthropology at the Pontifical Catholic University in Perú, and his M. Div. in Cross-Cultural Studies at Fuller Theological Seminary. Farrell is an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (USA) and married to Ruth Brand Farrell with whom he raised three children, now grown.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

What does it take to start a brand-new church in one of the fastest-growing cities in the U.S.? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Drew Crowson, an Episcopal priest in the Diocese of Dallas planting a church in Celina, Texas—a city where 800 new residents arrive every month and there’s never been an Episcopal congregation. Drew shares his journey from growing up Baptist in East Texas, to ministry roles in Germany, the Middle East, and Alabama, to finding a spiritual home in the Anglican tradition. He explains why he believes the parish model is the future of the church, how a preschool can be a vital ministry and funding source, and the discipline it takes to keep showing up—even when no one else does. Whether you’re in church leadership, thinking about starting something new, or just curious about what it takes to plant a church in today’s cultural climate, this conversation is both honest and inspiring.

They discuss:

• Why liturgy and the Book of Common Prayer resonate with non-liturgical Christians

• How to plant a church in a mainline denomination with little recent church-planting history

• Balancing entrepreneurial hustle with slow, patient spiritual formation

• The importance of pastoral boundaries for family health

• Building a prayer team and cultivating resilience in ministry

Drew Crowson is a church planter in the Episcopal Diocese of Dallas. Before stepping into church planting, he served in young adult and youth ministry in diverse contexts—from Dallas to Düsseldorf, Germany, an oil compound in the Middle East, and Auburn, Alabama. Deeply shaped by the early 2000s emergent church movement, his journey ultimately led him deeper into Jesus and into the Anglican tradition. Drew is married to an incredible woman, and together they are raising three young children who daily remind them of their ongoing need for grace.

Mentioned Resources:

📱 Celina instagram: @adventcelina

🌐 Drew's Substack: https://substack.com/@andrewcrowson

🌐 WashPark UMC: https://www.washparkumc.org

Other Church planting episodes:

🎧 Cameron Trimble: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8siub-10d0a4d

🎧 Paula Stone Williams: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-pgxda-f59f19

🎧 Tim Morey: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-25zwi-1059d6d

🎧 Nick Warnes: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ketw5-1172f9e

🎧 Jonah Overton: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-y28bz-13457f4

🎧 Even More: https://www.podbean.com/ep/pb-wzbs7-173f5fc

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In these days of increasing political polarization and hyper-partisanship in church, Brian Kaylor joins the show to talk about why he doesn't think pastors should be partisan, how it is possible to be a bi-partisan church, and how pastors and church leaders can foster health political conversations. Brian also shares why churchgoers are more likely to change churches than change their politics and encourages pastors to focus on what unites people other than their politics. 

Brian is an writer and expert on issues of religion, politics, and communication. He also hosts the award-winning podcast “Baptist Without An Adjective.” In addition to his work as Editor & President of Word&Way, his writings have been published by CNN, Houston Chronicle, Kansas City Star, Washington Post, and many other outlets. He is also the author of four books on religion and politics. Brian has a Ph.D. and an M.A. in Communication from the University of Missouri, and a B.A. in Communication and Christian Ministry from Southwest Baptist University. He previously served as Associate Director of Churchnet, Assistant Professor of Communication Studies at James Madison University, Contributing Editor for Ethics Daily, and Pastor of Union Mound Baptist Church in Elkland, Missouri. He currently serves as chair of both the Communication Advisory Committee and the Resolutions Committee for the Baptist World Alliance.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Year after year, thousands of churches across America are closing. Churches that were once the heart and soul of their communities are now shrinking both in size and influence, leading author and filmmaker Thom Schultz to try to figure out why. The creator of the film, When God Left the Building, Thom joins the pod to talk about the spiritual malaise, refusal to change, and an irrelevance to modern life that doom so many churches.  Thom also shares some signs of life and hope for fresh expressions of church and ministry. 

Thom Schultz is an author, filmmaker, publisher and innovator in resources for churches. He is the director of the documentary feature film “When God Left the Building.” He’s the co-author, along with his wife Joani, of many books, including Why Nobody Wants to Go to Church Anymore, The One Thing, and Don’t Just Teach . . . Reach. And his blog is called Holy Soup. Thom founded the international multimedia company Group Publishing in 1974, and continues to serve as its president. Group publishes books, Bibles and educational resources for churches and Christians around the world.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

In these times of contentious struggles over important issues, how can we fight like Jesus? Author and peacemaker Jason Porterfield joins the show to talk about fighting with means that are consistent with the way of peace, the importance of speaking truth to power but listening with humility, and how to fight like Jesus in an age of Christian Nationalism. Jason also shares his passion for cultivating God’s shalom wherever it is painfully absent and helping churches embrace their peacemaking vocation.

Jason Porterfield  was a founding member of the Servants team in Vancouver, started a new team in Indonesia, and directed operations in North America through 2015. Jason holds a masters in theology from Fuller Theological Seminary and is the author of Fight Like Jesus, a groundbreaking book that equips readers with practical peacemaking skills as it examines how Jesus waged peace on each day of Holy Week. Today, you’ll find Jason living in his riskiest location yet: next door to his in-laws.

The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.