From Two Sides to All Sides: Resilient Listening and Compassionate Conversations in the Midst of Conflict – Details, episodes & analysis
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From Two Sides to All Sides: Resilient Listening and Compassionate Conversations in the Midst of Conflict
Rory Michelle Sullivan & Nashira Pearl
Frequency: 1 episode/0d. Total Eps: 4

In this four episode podcast, Rory Michelle and Nashira - two committed, passionate American Jews who care deeply about Judaism and productive dialogue - share our learning and unlearning about the Israel-Palestine conflict from a place of humanizing everyone implicated. We explore the perspectives we’ve encountered through organized trips to the area, our own reading, and how that plus our own upbringing has influenced our understanding of the issues. Our goal is to share what we’ve learned, including how to have constructive, generative disagreement with others, using the Mahloket Matters methodology from The Pardes Institute of Jewish Studies which combines Jewish wisdom and social psychology to generate discussion, critical thinking, personal growth, and the deepening of relationships. Listen if you’ve ever wondered: “How could they possibly think that?!”, sometimes feel that there is no hope for talking with people who think differently, or if you are afraid to talk or even ask about these issues and don’t know where to start. Our intention is to expand the conversation on the Israel-Palestine conflict from two sides to all sides while giving you hope and tools to talk about it productively in your own life.
Credits:
Thanks to:
- The Pardes Institute of Jewish Studies, Zvi Hirschfield & Monica Kleinman, and our Mahloket Matters Fellowship Winter 2024/5784 cohort
- Chaim Landau and Sam Sussman for creating and running incredible programs to engage in deep conversation and resilient listening with those directly affected by the Israel-Palestine conflict
- Nashira for being an incredible friend as well as partner in this podcast journey. This podcast is what it is because of your enthusiasm, thoughtfulness, and insight.
- Nashira’s husband and parents for ensuring a kid-free, quiet home for our recording marathon!
Podcast Editing: Alex Kontis at Sonics Podcasts https://www.sonics.io/
Audio Engineering: Conor T. L. Sullivan https://conortlsullivan.com/
Recorded using Riverside.fm
Equipment & Studio:
- RM: at WXPN Podcast Studio at REC Philly on a Shure SM7B via a RØDECaster Pro mixer
- Nashira recorded at home with a Blue Yeti with pop filter.
Rory Michelle offers weekend Artist/Educator in Residences that can include workshops using the Makhloket Matters Methodology from The Pardes Institute of Jewish Studies. She is also a singer-songwriter, songleader, and Jewish educator. Check her out here: rorymichelle.com.
Thank you to these amazing Patrons for supporting what Rory Michelle creates!
Danielle Selber
Delen Heisman
Rick Kitei
Irene Tenenbaum and Daniel Verbit
Jerry Shinfeld
Alicia Jo Rabins
Michael Spanier
Julie Meyers
Heidi Tehilla Newman
LeeAnn Suen
Susan Schapiro
Jesse Bernstein
Jim & Sherry Leffert
Nashira Pearl
Join them here: https://www.patreon.com/rorymichellesullivan
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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01/11/2024#55
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See all- https://www.sonics.io/
108 shares
- http://riverside.fm
58 shares
- https://bdsmovement.net/what-is-bds
29 shares
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Publication history
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4: Following Meaning
Season 1 · Episode 4
vendredi 11 octobre 2024 • Duration 01:01:00
In this fourth and final episode, we share a few specific tools from Pardes's Makhloket Matters Fellowship, taught to us by Rachel Dingman, facilitator for Resetting the Table and Senior Director of Jewish Enrichment at BBYO. Using signposts and following meaning questions, we have a different conversation about where we disagree than we would have had without the Makhloket Matters methodology - and we hope that you can apply these tools and skills to have more resilient, compassionate conversations in the midst of conflict as well.
Content warning: Specific acts of violence are named between 35:30-35:52 and 37:06-37:30.
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Notes
- The Pardes Institute of Jewish Studies Mahloket Matters Methodology
- Shout out to the religious school students at Congregation Beth Hatikvah in Summit, NJ for their openness to learn and engage
- Resetting the Table
- "resilient listening" credited to Encounter
- Do We Need to Read the News?
- On Switching Off the News
- The Noahide Laws
- The “pregnant pause” referenced at 43:38 was originally 26 seconds long before editing.
- So You Want To Talk About Race - Ijeoma Oluo
- Peter Beinart suggests that once people have freedoms, they will be happy to be free and go about their lives.
- Learn about BDS. Some BDS groups focus specifically on the Occupied Territories.
Other voices to listen to:
- Shaul Magid: The Necessity of Exile
- Rashid Khalidi
- Bassam Abun-Nadi: PreOccupation: A Not-So-Brief History of Palestine
- Amira Mohammed and Ibrahim Abu Ahmad: Unapologetic: The Third Narrative
- Layla F. Saad: Me and White Supremacy
- “An Israeli and a Palestinian discuss 7 October, Gaza – and the future” - a relevant example of a compassionate conversation
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
3: A People for a Land or a Land for a People?
Season 1 · Episode 3
vendredi 11 octobre 2024 • Duration 44:40
In this third episode, based on a learning session from Pardes' Makhloket Matters Fellowship, we focus in on two Jewish perspectives on our relationship to the land of Israel-Palestine. Is the land an essential part of who we are as Jews? Or is it simply functional, and we could be happy anywhere we're safe and can study Torah? Turns out (spoiler alert!), both of these perspectives are embodied in our textual tradition and lived experience - and have been for a long time.
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Notes
- The Pardes Institute of Jewish Studies Mahloket Matters Methodology
- Shaye J. D. Cohen - From the Maccabees to the Mishnah
- The Sabbath - Abraham Joshua Heschel
- History of Jews in Israel and North Africa
- Extend Tours
- Perspectives Israel - No longer running, but Facebook group provides insights
- "resilient listening" credited to Encounter
- Shout out to the teens at Tiferet Bet Israel in Blue Bell, PA who participated in the Song Composition Elective with Rory Michelle
- Native American Oral Traditions course, Lisa Brooks
- Wisdom Sits in Places - Keith Basso (Rory Michelle mispronounces “Apache." American English speakers generally use ah-PATCH-ee (or plug this /əˈpɑːʃ/ into an ipa reader). The Apache call themselves Indé, which means “the people.” Source here.)
- The Art of Gathering - Priya Parker
- Sources quoted from the Pardes Institute of Jewish Studies Mahloket Matters Fellowship source sheet are:
- Letter from a Cherokee named Aitooweyah to the Principal Chief of the Cherokees, John Ross
- Paula Gunn Allen (1939 - 2008), a Native American poet of Laguna Pueblo and literacy critic, activist, professor, and novelist
- Rav Abraham Isaac HaCohen Kook - The Lights of the Land of Israel, Chapter 1
- Tosefta Avoda Zara, 4:3
- Leo Pinsker - Excerpt from Auto-Emancipation, 1916
Other voices to listen to:
- Rashid Khalidi
- Bassam Abun-Nadi: PreOccupation: A Not-So-Brief History of Palestine
- Amira Mohammed, Ibrahim Abu Ahmad: Unapologetic: The Third Narrative
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2: Competing Commitments
Season 1 · Episode 2
vendredi 11 octobre 2024 • Duration 40:46
In this second episode, we discuss a term we learned at summer camp that helps us understand what social and cultural psychologists Jonathan Haidt and Jesse Graham refer to as "Moral Foundations." In other words, what do we value, and how does the value someone is prioritizing impact their perspective? We focus especially on Israel's competing commitments between being a democracy and being a safe haven for the Jewish people.
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Notes
- The Pardes Institute of Jewish Studies Mahloket Matters Methodology (as well as Teen Curriculum and Adult Fellowship)
- Peter Beinart, namely: "Yavne: A Jewish Case for Equality in Israel-Palestine" and The Crisis of Zionism
- History of Jews in Israel and North Africa, link shared by Mariana Pardes
- How White Christian Influence is Reshaping Israel, link shared by Mariana Pardes
- Moral Foundations Theory by Jonathan Haidt & Jesse Graham
- Elephant/Rider concept comes from Jonathan Haidt, author of The Righteous Mind
- Extend Tours
- Perspectives Israel - No longer running, but Facebook group provides insights
- "resilient listening" credited to Encounter
- Nashira notes that the maps of Israel she encountered growing up did not distinguish between Israel and Occupied Territories. Today, Peter Beinart speaks about “Democratic and Undemocratic Israel” - thanks to Andrew Davies for pointing out this phrasing to Rory Michelle.
- Mikhael Manekin
- Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib
- Rabbi Megan GoldMarche shared this “competing commitment” of Universalism vs. Particularism with a group participating in Embark.
Other voices to listen to:
- Rashid Khalidi
- Bassam Abun-Nadi: PreOccupation: A Not-So-Brief History of Palestine
- Amira Mohammed and Ibrahim Abu Ahmad: Unapologetic: The Third Narrative
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
1: From Two Sides to All Sides
Season 1 · Episode 1
jeudi 10 octobre 2024 • Duration 37:49
In this first episode, we discuss the role of identity in one's perspective on a conflict. Rory Michelle shares some categorizations of different groups among the Israeli and Palestinian people that help expand the conflict from two sides to all sides.
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Notes
- The Pardes Institute of Jewish Studies Mahloket Matters Methodology (as well as Teen Curriculum and Adult Fellowship)
- Peter Beinart, namely: "Yavne: A Jewish Case for Equality in Israel-Palestine" and The Crisis of Zionism
- The West Bank: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver
- Never Split The Difference - Chris Voss: “tactical empathy” referenced in Chapter 5, pp.96-112
- Extend Tours - Rory Michelle highly recommend these tours if you have the ability
- Perspectives Israel - This trip is no longer happening as other organizations started to do similar work, but you can get a sense of it from its Facebook group.
- Encounter - Neither of us have direct experience with this organization, though it is a leader in facilitating listening directly from those impacted by the Israel-Palestine conflict. The term “resilient listening” that we learned on the Perspectives Israel tour was credited to Encounter.
- Unapologetic: The Third Narrative
- Christian Evangelicals: How White Christian Influence is Reshaping Israel
- The history of the Jews in the Middle East/North Africa
Other voices to listen to:
- Mikhael Manekin
- Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib
- Hannah Arendt
- Shaul Magid, Distinguished Fellow in Jewish Studies at Dartmouth: The Necessity of Exile
- Rashid Khalidi, Edward Said Professor Emeritus of Modern Arab Studies at Columbia University
- Mira Sucharov, Professor of Political Science at Carleton University
- Joshua Shanes, Professor of Jewish Studies at the College of Charleston
- Bassam Abun-Nadi: PreOccupation: A Not-So-Brief History of Palestine
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.