Fork Around And Find Out – Details, episodes & analysis

Fork Around and Find Out is your downtime from uptime. Your break from the pager, and a chance to learn from expert’s successes and failures. We cover state-of-the-art, legacy practices for building, running, and maintaining software and systems. 

Be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast player, and stay tuned for weekly episodes! 

Follow the podcast elsewhere online:

• Website: https://fafo.fm
• Bluesky: @fafo.fm

Retirement is about the journey, not the destination. For Kelsey Hightower, it’s been an epic journey. On our debut episode of the Fork Around and Find Out Podcast (and much to Autumn’s elation), Kelsey joins us to run down his illustrious career that spans a quarter of a century.

Known for authenticity, Kelsey was on the frontlines of Kubernetes advocacy in the tool’s humble beginnings. Because of his time at Google, we get the inside scoop on why the company seems to enjoy killing off some of its most popular products. You’ll also hear his thoughts on why curiosity is essential to tech and why the industry needs to embrace problem solvers. We also get into the absurd state of the world, the moments that caused Kelsey to finally quit Twitter, and why he’s happy to embrace Bluesky.

Kelsey is not just someone who cares. He’s a genuine human being who’s invested in the future of the industry. We can’t wait for you to check out this conversation, because we know you’ll love it!

Show Highlights

(0:00) Intro

(0:37) Tremolo sponsor read

(1:56) Introducing Kelsey Hightower

(3:04) Reflecting on how Kelsey's 25-year tech journey shaped what he's been up to recently

(9:15) Why you shouldn't be surprised when someone like Google kills off a product

(14:46) How Kelsey built up his trust in the tech community through his honesty

(16:31) Having the financial privilege to be able to say "no"

(22:57) Is the churn and burn nature of the tech industry going to hurt innovation 

(29:19) Advising NFL stars Larry Fitzgerald and Kelvin Beachum on their tech investments

(38:28) Figuring out how to make tech more sustainable by treating it like a relay race

(42:36) Autumn’s appreciation for the Kubernetes community

(44:16) How you can help sponsor the FAFO Podcast

(45:17) Kelsey’s theory around the strong Kubernetes community

(47:26) The future of the relationship between corporations and open-source

(51:33) Kelsey's adventures in circuitry, doing electrical work on his home, and why that kind of curiosity is vital to learning new skills in tech

(59:11) Is tech starting to abandon problem solvers?

(1:03:41) Creating solutions for problems that don't exist

(1:08:49) The absurd state of the world, social media, and how Kelsey helped lead the tech migration to Bluesky

(1:19:40) The power and the positive impact you can have with a large online presence

(1:30:29) Where you can find more from Kelsey

About Kelsey Hightower

Kelsey Hightower has worn every hat possible throughout his career in tech, and enjoys leadership roles focused on making things happen and shipping software. Kelsey is a strong open source advocate focused on building simple tools that make people smile. When he is not slinging Go code, you can catch him giving technical workshops covering everything from programming to system administration.

Links Referenced

• Kelsey’s Github: https://github.com/kelseyhightower 
• Kelsey’s Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/kelseyhightower.com 

Sponsor

Tremolo: http://fafo.fm/tremolo

Sponsor the FAFO Podcast!

http://fafo.fm/sponsor

Kubernetes isn’t just a platform—it’s a revolution. On this episode of Fork Around and Find Out, Justin and Autumn sit down with Kubernetes co-creator Brian Grant to explore the origins of this game-changing technology. From Google’s internal tooling to the cloud-native juggernaut it is today, Brian takes us behind the scenes of Kubernetes’ evolution, including its roots in Borg and the creation of CNCF.

Brian also opens up about his fascinating career, from debugging GPUs at PeakStream to improving Google’s threading systems. Along the way, he shares his candid thoughts on Terraform, GitOps, and the future of infrastructure management. We’re talking insider stories, tech critiques, and the cyclical nature of trends like AI—all packed into one unmissable episode.

Brian is a visionary who’s shaped the cloud-native ecosystem as we know it. We can’t wait for you to hear his story and insights!

Show Highlights

(0:00) Intro

(0:31) Tremolo Security sponsor read

(2:42) Brian’s background

(6:20) What it’s like working on something great but it not being the right time

(9:17) How Brian’s work from the 2000s is still important today

(11:16) Why Brian said ‘yes’ to Google after previously turning them down

(12:59) The history of the FDIV bug

(16:49) What Brian was doing when his old company was bought by Google

(20:51) How Brian’s education helped him get started down this path

(23:47) Brian’s jump from Borg to Kubernetes

(32:27) The effect Kubernetes has had on the landscape of infrastructure and applications

(35:48) Tremolo Security sponsor read

(36:47) Times Brian has been frustrated at how people use Kubernetes

(41:05) The patterns Brian notices thanks to his years in the tech industry

(48:04) What Brian expects to see next as manual actions to make providers work to make a comeback

(54:58) Reflecting on Brian’s serendipitous journey through the tech world

(1:02:18) Where you can find more from Brian

About Brian Grant

Brian Grant is the CTO and co-founder of ConfigHub, pioneering a new approach to provisioning, deploying, and operating cloud applications and infrastructure. As the original lead architect of Kubernetes, Brian created its declarative configuration model (KRM) and tools like kubectl apply and kustomize. With over 30 years in high-performance and distributed computing, he’s held pivotal roles, including tech lead for Google’s Borg platform and founder of the Omega R&D project. A Kubernetes Steering Committee and CNCF Technical Oversight Committee member, Brian also boasts 15+ patents and a Ph.D. in Computer Science, shaping the future of cloud and computing innovation.

Links Referenced

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bgrant0607/
• Twitter: https://x.com/bgrant0607
• BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/bgrant0607.bsky.social
• Medium: https://medium.com/@bgrant0607
• Hachyderm: https://hachyderm.io/@bgrant0607

Sponsor

Tremolo: http://fafo.fm/tremolo

Sponsor the FAFO Podcast!

http://fafo.fm/sponsor

Bluesky has been on a roller coaster of growth for over a year. From the early days of figuring out a new distributed social protocol—AT protocol—to actually building it and inviting 30 million of their closest friends. Not only has the site gone through tremendous growth, the team has been optimizing, re-architecting, and adding features the entire time.

Jaz is a software engineer focused on the infrastructure at Bluesky, and they share how they achieved exponential growth without exponential costs. We cover some of the key components of the protocol and how that affects the architecture.

There’s some amazing advice from the trenches we know you’ll enjoy.

Show Highlights
(0:00) Intro
(5:00) Jaz’s background
(12:30) Bluesky Infrastructure
(17:00) Predicting the future
(20:00) What is a PDS?
(22:30) Relay and firehose
(26:00) Work queues
(30:00) Scaling physical servers
(37:00) How do you handle incidents?
(41:00) Where’s Kubernetes?
(43:30) How video changes
(45:00) Data locality
(46:30) Hardware decisions
(53:00) What bad decisions?
(57:00) Launching video
(1:00:00) What’s next?

About Jaz

Jaz is a software engineer who learned from on-the-job experience. They have a background with hardware which makes them better with software. If they’re not drinking Monster they’re building a single purpose database, or maybe they’re doing both. Jaz went from building with AT protocol to building AT protocol in a matter of months. They also have an impressive collection of plushies and power tools.

Sponsor the FAFO Podcast!

http://fafo.fm/sponsor

Today we find out how building a product at Big Tech can be very different than a startup. Lauren Long has done both. Building parts of Firebase and eventually taking the things she learned to build Ampersand. We discuss what Ampersand is and go into detail about what the back end looks like. We even drop some hot takes about serverless and Kubernetes. We think you’ll love it!

Show Highlights

(0:00) Intro

(1:00) What is Ampersand?

(3:00) What is the backend?

(4:00) What is Lauren’s background

(6:00) How are people using it?

(10:00) How is Temporal used?

(14:00) How to keep APIs in check

(21:00) What did you learn?

(24:00) What has broken?

(26:00) Why use Kubernetes?

(32:00) What have customers done?

(38:00) What’s next?

About Lauren Long

Lauren Long is the CTO and co-founder of Ampersand, an API integration and workflow engine for enterprises to integrate their data with hundreds of applications. Lauren co-founded Ampersand after working at Google on their serverless products and saw a need for a different kind of integration for customers. She’s a developer with a great intuition on how to build reliable and scalable systems.

Sponsor the FAFO Podcast!

http://fafo.fm/sponsor

Fork it! We’ll do it live! Well, sort of...

In case you missed it last week, we’re running back our FAFO Livestream with Crystal Preston-Watson from this past Friday. Instead of prying into specifics about Crystal’s career, we’re chatting about recent tech news, the dire state of American tech literacy, and WTF WTA stands for!

You can expect shows like these on the last Friday of every month, and we hope to see you there!

Show Highlights

(0:00) Intro

(0:36) Tremolo sponsor read

(1:56) Welcome to FAFO Live!

(3:07) Is the AI Bubble bursting

(8:17) The vibes at the TikTok security party

(19:01) True Crime and Tech Literacy 101

(31:12) Tremolo sponsor read

(34:01) Crystal plays WTA- What’s the Acronym?

(50:06) What you can expect from more FAFO Live Shows

(51:39) Where you can get some FAFO swag and find more from the show

About Crystal Preston-Watson

Crystal is an accessibility engineer and analyst. She believes accessibility is a civic and human right, and she is passionate about building accessible and inclusive applications for everyone.

Links Referenced

• “The AI Bubble is Bursting”: https://matduggan.com/the-ai-bubble-is-bursting/
• "ex-prosecutor here in Denver": https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/01/dirty-deeds-in-denver-ex-prosecutor-faked-texts-destroyed-devices-to-frame-colleague/
• Bad licenses repo: https://github.com/ErikMcClure/bad-licenses
• FAFOFM merch store: http://fafo.fm/store

Sponsor

Tremolo: http://fafo.fm/tremolo

Sponsor the FAFO Podcast!

http://fafo.fm/sponsor

If technology serves everybody, then everyone deserves access to a seat at the table. No one better embodies this sentiment than Crystal Preston-Watson. She’s a Senior Digital Accessibility Analyst with Salesforce, and she brings an unrivaled passion for making tech available for anyone to use.

On this episode of FAFO, we’re unpacking why her mission is so vital, and the previous career that made Crystal realize the disabled community needs a voice to advocate for them. Crystal goes into why it’s okay to turn personal struggles into triumphs for others, ARIA as a vital resource, and the issues with pushing GenAI tools onto accessibility tools.

You’ll also get to hear why Autumn loves Crystal’s presence on the internet, but especially Crystal’s blog (which is a great read if you love serious topics sprinkled with a good laugh).

Show Highlights

(0:00) Intro

(0:29) Tremolo sponsor read

(1:51) Introducing Crystal through the power of numeronym

(5:43) Crystal's journey to accessibility and software

(10:01) How Crystal’s background in tech led her directly to tech

(15:30) Using additional tools to help solve problems

(18:31) The power of lifting other people up through your own personal struggles

(21:53) The importance of the right to repair and accessibility in the disability community

(27:58) Rapid evolutions in accessibility, vulnerability, and security

(33:57) Tremolo sponsor read

(34:55) Changes Crystal has seen in accessibility

(39:04) Why ARIA is important to accessibility

(43:17) Can open source provide a voice for accessibility advocates?

(45:52) Audio accessibility tools and their many functions

(48:22) Who's better for accessibility: Apple or Android?

(51:42) GenAI's impact (or lack thereof) on accessibility

(57:33) Why Autumn loves Crystal's social media presence

(59:50) Where you can find more from Crystal

(1:01:04) Crystal's advice for making security more accessible

About Crystal Preston-Watson

Crystal is an accessibility engineer and analyst. She believes accessibility is a civic and human right, and she is passionate about building accessible and inclusive applications for everyone.

Links Referenced

• Crystal’s Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/scopicengineer.bsky.social
• Crystal’s website: https://crystalprestonwatson.com/
• Crystal’s blog: https://a11ysavvy.com/

Sponsor

Tremolo: http://fafo.fm/tremolo

Sponsor the FAFO Podcast!

http://fafo.fm/sponsor

Data and security breaches are a dime a dozen nowadays, and despite their frequency, they’re still just as dangerous. That’s where Yasmin Abdi, the CEO of noHack, comes in. Despite her relatively short career, she’s already worked for some of the giants of the tech industry like Google and Snapchat. Along with Justin and Autumn, Yasmin breaks down real-world security challenges and solutions, a firsthand view into managing role-based access, phishing simulations for employee training, and the delicate balance between security and usability.

Show Highlights

(0:00) Intro

(0:32) Tremolo sponsor read

(2:04) How Yasmin built noHack

(3:15) Breaking down Yasmin's impressive resume

(4:17) What sparked Yasmin's interest in security?

(7:54) Yasmin's biggest challenge since starting noHack

(11:05) How Zero Trust has evolved over the past decade

(12:34) Balancing usability and security

(15:43) The problems with role-based access and how Yasmin's work addresses it

(19:31) Phishing schemes and AI's role in the future of security

(23:14) Tremolo sponsor read

(24:13) Yasmin's efforts to educate organizations on the dangers of phishing and poor security

(29:31) "Security theater" and the lack of serious education

(34:20) How to get people to take security seriously

(39:37) Yasmin's opinions on third-party scanning vendors

(43:17) How Yasmin would have handled the CrowdStrike attack

(46:52) Where you can find more from Yasmin

About Yasmin Abdi

Yasmin Abdi is the CEO and Founder of noHack, a cybersecurity company focused on delivering high-impact solutions for public and private (startups, & SMB) clients. Yasmin’s expertise spans enterprise security, secure software development, vulnerability and risk management, threat detection and intelligence, security assurance and education, and privacy best practices. Yasmin has also shared her knowledge at major industry platforms (featured on Forbes, Cisco, Voice of America) and has established herself as a leading voice in the cybersecurity space. 

Before launching noHack, Yasmin led global security and privacy initiatives at tech giants like Google, Meta, and Snap. With over seven years of experience, she played a pivotal role as a founding member of Meemo, an AI-powered social finance app later acquired by Coinbase for $95M.

Links Referenced

• Yasmin’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yasminyabdi/
• Yasmin’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yazabdi/?hl=en

Sponsor

Tremolo: http://fafo.fm/tremolo

Sponsor the FAFO Podcast!

http://fafo.fm/sponsor

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Mark is the CTO of Azure and has decades of experience exploring the internals of systems. As a developer and person responsible for running massive AI infrastructure, Mark has a lot of insights and ideas. We talk about the the end of SaaS, training engineers, and a whole lot more on this episode.

• Zero Day
• Redefining the Software Engineering Profession for AI
• Mark's SCaLE 23x Keynote

• SoCal Linux Expo - discount "FAFOF" -https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/
• Kubecon EU Amsterdam - https://events.linuxfoundation.org/kubecon-cloudnativecon-europe/
• Linuxfest North West - https://linuxfestnorthwest.org/
• Newsletter - https://sub.fafo.fm/

Dr. Cat Hicks takes a different approach to traditional engineer productivity measurements. Instead of turning engineers into velocity numbers she takes a holistic approach to understanding why a person or team might be over or under performing. This episode talks about lots of factors and gives you some ideas to understand what's actually going on.

You probably want to check out Cat's upcoming book The Psychology of Software Teams or her recent whitepaper No Silver Bullets: Why Understanding Software Cycle Time is Messy, Not Magic.