Description:
As we celebrate Juneteenth, Jen sits down with writer, activist, theologian, and longtime friend Lisa Sharon Harper for a conversation that’s equal parts history lesson, spiritual challenge, and call to action. Together, they explore the often-overlooked story of Juneteenth—not just the delayed news of emancipation in Texas, but the deeper history of freedom promised, denied, and fought for across generations.

Fresh from a powerful march across Selma’s Edmund Pettus Bridge, Lisa reflects on what it means to stand in the footsteps of civil rights heroes while confronting the realities of the present moment. Drawing from her own family’s legacy of resistance, she shares why her hope no longer rests in institutions, laws, or political systems, but in ordinary people willing to bend the arc of history toward justice.

The conversation moves from the unfinished work of voting rights to the spiritual courage required for this cultural moment. As Lisa puts it, perhaps our task is not simply to recover what has been lost, but to become “the architects of the next America.”

Whether you’re marking Juneteenth, wrestling with questions about democracy and belonging, or searching for hope in uncertain times, this conversation is a timely reminder that freedom has always depended on people willing to imagine—and build—something better.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

★ “The Supreme Court has effectively placed us back into the time of Plessy vs Ferguson, which said separate and equal is okay, the time of even Dred Scott, which says a black man has no rights that a white man need abide by. That’s what they’re gunning for.”

★ In the past, my hope was in the law. In the past, my hope was in the dream of America. My hope was in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights. My hope was in the church. But what I’m learning is that the arc of the moral universe has bent toward justice because people have bent it.”

★ “What can they do to us? What can they do? They can put us in jail. God is there. They can deport us. God will be there. They can kill us. And God will be there. So what can they do? They can't do anything to us. Not really.”

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

➢ (The Gospel of Shalom) Unequally Saved: The Church’s Role in Racism with Lisa Sharon Harper - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-08/unequally-saved-the-churchs-role-in-racism-with-lisa-sharon-harper/

➢ Fortune: How Race Broke My Family and the World--and How to Repair It All by Lisa Sharon Harper - https://amzn.to/43LTXW1

➢ “All Roads Lead To The South” Rally - https://blackpowerwarroom.com/dayofaction/

➢ A Resistance History of the United States by Tad Stoermer - https://amzn.to/4dK3RNS

➢ Amazing Grace | William Wilberforce film - https ...

Description:It's Pride Month, and we couldn't think of a better time to bring back one of our most beloved episodes. Sara Cunningham — founder of Free Mom Hugs — first joined Jen back in 2018, when she was a Christian mom from Oklahoma City who had just started showing up at Pride parades with a handmade sign and a button. A lot has happened since then.

What began as one mom extending her arms to strangers has grown into a global movement. Free Mom Hugs now trains advocates, lobbies legislatures, and shows up year after year for LGBTQIA+ people whose own families walked away. Sara hasn't just built an organization — she's built a lifeline.

In this conversation, Sara and Jen revisit the journey that started it all: how Sara moved from the church to the Pride parade without losing her faith, what it meant for her son Parker to come out into a family still finding its footing, and how the stories of people who had lost everything — their families, their churches, their sense of belonging — fell into her arms and changed the course of her life.

They also talk about what it takes to turn personal pain into structural change, and why showing up — physically, politically, and relationally — for the LGBTQIA+ community matters more than ever right now.

This one is worth every minute. Enjoy this encore conversation with our beloved friend, Sara Cunningham!

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “No one has searched for God more than the Gay Christian.” – Sara Cunningham

• “The first drag show that I ever went to, when I crossed the threshold, I really thought lightning might strike. But, I realized these are beautiful people raising money for homeless LGBTQ youth. And I was so moved by that. I had it totally wrong. I believed a lie that kept me from some of the most beautiful experiences I’ve had in my life.”  – Sara Cunningham

• “I remember there was a time, at the beginning of that journey, I call from the church to the pride parade. It was like reality was setting in. The bubble that I was in, the evangelical conservative mainstream bubble that I was in where everyone looked like me and talked like me, had just shattered. And I wanted to take a banner and put it outside of my house on the front door, like, welcome to the real world. And suddenly it's like my eyes are truly open.” - Sara Cunningham

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• LGBTQIA MeCourse - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/parenting-lgbtqia-teens-tweens

• Mama Bears - https://www.realmamabears.org/ 

• FTL Episode ft. Sydney Hatmaker - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spring-back-series-living-proudly-with-sydney-hatmaker/id1258388821?i=1000523761007 

• Kai Shappley’s Website - https://kaishappley.com/ 

• Free Mom Hugs Revolution Conference - https://freemomhugs.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Page.ViewPage&pageId=571 

• Kimberly Shappley’s Website - ...

Description:There are artists whose music marks a moment—and then there are the ones whose songs stay with us for a lifetime.

This week, Jen sits down with beloved returning guest Amy Grant to talk about her long-awaited new album, a project shaped by time, reflection, and a life that’s been fully lived. After a significant health crisis and a slow, intentional return to music, Amy is creating from a place that feels more open, more grounded, and more honest than ever.

Together, they talk about what it means to come back to yourself after everything changes, how creativity evolves over decades, and why the stories we tell later in life often carry a different kind of weight. Amy shares how her songwriting has shifted, the role of memory and perspective in this new work, and what it looks like to keep making meaningful art in a season that feels both quieter and more expansive.

At the heart of both this album and this conversation is Amy’s quiet but steady intention to be a witness—to tell the truth about a life as it’s being lived, and to honor the people who have shown up along the way. From deeply personal songs shaped by love and loss to collaborations with her husband, Vince Gill, and her daughters, this record reflects not just where Amy is now, but who has helped her get here.

This conversation is thoughtful, unhurried, and full of the kind of wisdom that only comes from living a long time and staying curious along the way.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “Many times our limitations create a new path for us.” – Amy Grant

• “The great thing about being 65 is that you can be a witness to everyone and to yourself.” – Amy Grant

• “In my sixties, I’ve realized this is a different landscape and I've got to have to welcome myself differently.” – Amy Grant

• "I just think there is something that happens in your sixties that you just stop fighting it and you welcome it." - Amy Grant

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Amy Grant - The Me That Remains - https://30tgrs.ffm.to/themethatremains

• Vince Gill - https://www.vincegill.com/

• Tom Douglas, songwriter - https://www.instagram.com/tomdouglasmusic

• Mac MacAnally - https://macmcanally.com/

• Brandi Carlile - https://www.brandicarlile.com/

• Three Wishes on NBC - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460685/

• Jimmy Gentry, WWII veteran - https://www.franklintn.gov/Home/Components/News/News/11185/83

• Amy Grant - Baby, Baby - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnAD2Tb-SE8

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.amygrant.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/amygrantofficial/

Twitter - https://x.com/amygrant

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/amygrant/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZSki0usQ84d5c ...

Description:

In the summer of 2020, as Jen was beginning to process the loss of her 26-year marriage, there was one person walking her own similar but different journey, and understood many of the feelings of anger, grief, shame, and loss that Jen was just beginning to feel. Someone who knew how that disappointment felt.

Jessica N. Tuner, founder of the popular lifestyle blog The Mom Creative, was a few months ahead of Jen in processing the loss of her 16-year marriage to her husband and father of her three children. Today, Jessica shared with Jen and Amy what the road to recovery has looked like for her, including grieving the end of the life she thought she would have forever, the change of her identity, navigating  the messy false-starts, and clawing her way back from what felt like “the floor of hell”. Jessica compiled those hard-fought lessons into a book she’s hoping will be a manifesto of hope to others, called I Thought It Would Be Better Than This: Rise From Disappointment, Regain Control, and Rebuild a Life You Love.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Nothing about what I thought my life was going to be, is my life now. Now I feel like I walk around in the world and I feel grief and loss and disappointment and dismay from everybody. It’s amazing how my eyes have opened. It was a big awakening to the loss people are living with everyday.–Jessica N. Turner

When we made the decision to divorce, I felt like I was sitting on the floor of hell, everything was dust, everything was different.–Jessica N. Turner

No matter how devastating the loss, the life you can still rebuild is astonishing. – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Say Anything film (1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098258/

Sixteen Candles film (1984) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088128/

Cameron Crowe - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001081/

John Hughes - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000455/

James Spader - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000652/

Some Kind of Wonderful film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094006/

I Go Crazy by Flesh for Lulu - https://open.spotify.com/track/2o1AevEuv39qZAVy6k2pmn

The Breakfast Club film (1985) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/

Weird Science film (1985) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090305

Ferris Bueller’s Day Off film (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091042/

Planes, Trains and Automobiles film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093748/

Uncle Buck film (1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098554

Pretty in Pink film (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091790

Beethoven film (1992) - https://www.imd ...

Description:

Maddie Corman is a seasoned American actress and playwright that you’ve seen in classic films including Some Kind of Wonderful, Maid in Manhattan, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, and our favorite television shows like Law and Order, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.

Most recently, she has put her creative hand to writing and performing in a very raw and vulnerable autobiographical one-woman play called Accidentally Brave, that delves into Maddie's personal journey following the arrest of her husband on child pornography charges in 2015. Today, Maddie shares her story of navigating the aftermath, focusing on themes of resilience, healing, and redefining normalcy when life takes an unforeseen turn.

In this tender and transparent conversation, we discuss:

• How Maddie’s life turned upside down after a public personal crisis—and how she found her way back
• What led to her decision to write a raw, hilarious, deeply moving one-woman show called Accidentally Brave (now a movie on MAX!)
• What she imagined midlife would look like when she was younger versus what it looks like from where she sits today
• What it’s like to walk (or sometimes crawl) through shame and loss—and come out with more freedom, more truth, more YOU
• Also, how motherhood shifts our perspective in crisis
• What practices or people help us stay grounded in the hard moments – Maddie shares some really great resources!
• Why midlife is actually the best time to tell your story and start again

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “After a really big trauma that I thought was going to destroy my children, it turns out, they are thriving, and funny, and sensitive, and smart, and caring, and annoying, and they love me, and I drive them crazy, I’m sure. I share that because I feel like that was what saved my life was somebody who had been through something similar saying my kids are going to be okay.” – Maddie Corman
• “When you lose your mother, people bring a meatloaf over. But when your husband's arrested and you say ‘I think he's a sex addict and a porn addict,’ there's no meal train that's coming for that.” – Maddie Corman
• “I had lived 47 years when this happened and I had never met another person who had gone through anything like this. P.S. It turns out I had. They just didn't share about it.” – Maddie Corman
• “You inch your way back to the sunshine and it's so slow. And at the beginning you just think, everything's ruined; I'll just never be happy again so let me cobble together some sad life that just gets me to the finish line. But the truth is, it's stunning how much we can recover.” – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Some Kind of Wonderful film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094006/
• John Hughes - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000455/?ref_=fn_all_nme_1
• Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/
• Glennon Doyle - https://momastery.com/
• Elizabeth Gilbert - https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/
• Accidentally Brave Play - https://www.maddiecorman.com/accidentally-brave
• Accidentally Brave on MAX  - https://play.max.com/movie/b19ce99f-93c8-4150-ba0d-139e12048efe
• Partner Betray Counsel ...

Description:

This month’s JHBC selection, The Berry Pickers, by Nova Scotian author Amanda Peters has found a particularly receptive audience within book club communities, including the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, for exploring universal human emotions and experiences, and for  examining unique cultural perspectives.  By masterfully blending her father's compelling stories as a Maine berry picker with her own extensive career in Indigenous governance, The Berry Pickers delves into a unique and original plot surrounding a Mi’kmaw family that grapples with the corrosive effects of guilt and shame, and the possibility of redemption. Peters reveals how the debut novel initially took shape as a short story, but as the beautifully-flawed characters and tendrilled themes began to unfold, the narrative organically expanded into the full-fledged novel that it is now, which has been translated into an impressive 22 languages and has been awarded the Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction. 

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• I couldn't have written this story when I was 21 because I didn’t have all of the life experience that I have now. – Amanda Peters
• Fiction readers are just better people because literature is about the human condition; it helps us develop empathy.  – Amanda Peters
• I love the writing process. I love creating a story. I love that high you get when you get it just right, when a sentence does exactly what I want it to do. – Amanda Peters

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• The Berry Pickers: A Novel by Amanda Peters - https://amzn.to/4hAYfUM
• Waiting for the Long Night Moon: Stories by Amanda Peters - https://amzn.to/4hGNTTw
• John Steinbeck books - https://amzn.to/4c1B1pJ
• John Steinbeck Center - https://steinbeck.org/
• Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction - https://www.ala.org/carnegie-medals/2024-winners
• Pearly Everlasting: A Novel by Tammy Armstrong - https://amzn.to/420or5r
• All the Young Men by Ruth Coker Burks - https://amzn.to/420oT3D
• What Strange Paradise: A novel by Omar El Akkad - https://amzn.to/4kXs8l6

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://amandapetersauthor.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/amandapetersauthor/

Twitter - https://x.com/amandapetersaut?lang=en

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

Description:

Today’s guest, Shannon Watts, has come to be known as a formidable force in the world. As the founder of Moms Demand Action, the largest grassroots movement against gun violence formed after the Sandy Hook school shooting tragedy in 2012, her activism has mobilized millions of moms to successfully pass  over 500 gun safety laws. As Amy poignantly stated, Shannon’s work “has legitimately made a tangible impact on the safety of my kids in their classrooms”, demonstrating the profound significance of Shannon’s contributions.

Watts has since shifted her time and attention to empowering women, whom she credits as the real changemakers in any movement. She has founded the Firestarter School, a platform designed to help women reclaim their power and has a forthcoming book,  Fired Up: How to Turn Your Spark into a Flame and Come Alive at Any Age, releasing in the summer of 2025, which explores the necessary elements needed to ignite a fire in your life and pursue your passion and purpose.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• When you get involved in something like activism, it helps you realize that you have all of this untapped power.  And it does give you the audacity to become a firestarter, to prioritize your desires over your obligations. – Shannon Watts
• Right out of college, I married my college sweetheart at 23-years-old. By the time I was 29, I had three children.  I have a job I don’t love. By my mid-thirties, I realized, this is not the person I would have chosen to be. I was having a difficult time acknowledging that I was living a life that was not true to me. – Shannon Watts
• So many women keep collecting new fuel, acquiring new skills, waiting for the other pieces to come together.  And we’re prepared when the opportunity presents itself. – Amy Hardin
• Society shoulders women with so many burdens so she doesn’t have room to explore her desires.  If you’re going to claim space, raise your voice, you are going to get blowback.  The direct proportion of how much you can grow your fire corresponds to how much blowback you're willing to withstand. – Shannon Watts
• Remind yourself of your wins everyday, whether they’re your wins or wins for what you want to see in the world. Give yourself hope and affirmation. – Shannon Watts
• Fighting for your safety and your rights is a form of self-care and a form of protection for other people. – Shannon Watts

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Camino Made (B.T. Harman’s Camino de Santiago pilgrimage company) - https://caminomade.com/
• Fired Up: How to Turn Your Spark into a Flame and Come Alive at Any Age by Shannon Watts - https://amzn.to/4hEYE8K
• Fight Like a Mother: How a Grassroots Movement Took on the Gun Lobby and Why Women Will Change the World by Shannon Watts - https://amzn.to/4hFP31t
• 5 Calls App - https://5calls.org/
• Firestarter University - https://shannonwatts.org/firestarter-university/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://momsdemandaction.org/shannon-watts/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shannonrwatts/

Twitter - https://x.com/shannonrwatts

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/fightlikeamother.org

Substack - https://shannonwatts.substack.com/ ...

The best adventures are often found when we embrace curiosity. That’s a lesson that Tamron Hall has learned in her storied career as a cultural icon, Emmy-winning talk show host, and broadcast journalist, as well as in her role as a young parent to a son with a shy but investigative nature to explore the world around him.

In today’s conversation, Tamron talks to Jen and Amy about that curiosity and why it is a trait that should be celebrated and nurtured, both in our children and in ourselves. They talk about the many cultural treasures that already exist right in our own neighborhoods, if we open ourselves up to the beauty of exploring new places and faces.

And, Tamron also shares details with Amy and Jen about her latest labor of love, the children’s book that she just released called Harlem Honey: The Adventures of a Curious Kid, an endearing story inspired by her real-life son and his adventure visiting Harlem's most iconic spots, learning a valuable lesson about the meaning of home.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• Things that are authentic tend to come easy but that doesn't mean that the process isn’t challenging. – Tarmron Hall
• As adults, through our urgency, we can rush our children through great opportunities of curiosity. – Tamron Hall
• I was very worried when my son presented as shy. Shy kids, especially boys, can be steeped into tropes and stereotypes of what a shy kid is. It forced me to talk more openly about my own social anxieties. – Tamron Hall
• The best of my journey as a reporter was opening my eyes to the cultural difference and nuances of neighborhoods. – Tamron Hall
• Storytelling is something that we all have the ability to do. When you tell it from your heart and from an authentic space, it can resonate. It transcends gender, economics. It transcends everything. – Tamron Hall

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Prince - https://www.prince.com/

The Tamron Hall Show - https://tamronhallshow.com/

Jen Hatmaker Gets Real About Healing After Divorce on The Tamron Hall Show - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkm0RqfRYMI

As the Wicked Watch: The First Jordan Manning Novel by Tamron Hall - https://amzn.to/4hnc8qn

Harlem Honey: The Adventures of a Curious Kid by Tarmron Hall - https://amzn.to/4hJEuea

Deadline: Crime With Tamron Hall - https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/show/deadline-crime-with-tamron-hall-investigation-discovery

The TODAY Show - https://www.today.com/

Sisterwives Tell All - https://www.tlc.com/shows/sister-wives/episodes/sister-wives-tell-all

Ebony Glenn, Illustrator - https://www.ebonyglenn.com/

100 Mighty Dragons All Named Broccoli by David LaRochelle - https://amzn.to/4jOvGFz

Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret by Judy Blume - https://amzn.to/3CCSsjc

Billie Holliday - https://billieholiday.com/

The Apollo Theater - https://www.apollotheater.org/

A Confident Cook: Recipes for Joyous, No-Pressure Fun in the Kitchen by Tamron Hall and Lish - https://amzn.to/3ErTZJq

Description:

Today, Jen and Amy have an intimate conversation with preeminent perimenopausal and menopausal specialist and women’s health advocate, Dr. Louise Newson, who has been described as the “medic who kickstarted the menopause revolution” for her commitment to increasing awareness and knowledge about hormones, perimenopause and menopause through her books, podcast, and educational videos on social media.

In this candid and enlightening conversation, we discuss: 

• The biggest misconceptions women have about menopause including understanding the array of symptoms that can be attributed to it
• How the conversations our mothers and grandmothers had (or didn’t have) about menopause are evolving
• The discussions we should be having with our doctors about our health and symptoms but aren’t, either due to shame or lack of information
• Important steps we can take now to minimize our menopausal symptoms later
• Treatment options to alleviate our perimenopause/menopause symptoms once they begin, including hormone replacement therapy
• And, why it’s imperative for policymakers, insurers, employers, and doctors of all specialties to be part this conversation 

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• What’s going wrong or right  in this [menopause/perimenopause] conversation is that women are understanding this faster than their healthcare professionals are. – Dr. Louise Newson
• I’ve been taking hormones now for 9 years but the dose of estrogen I need, I cannot get from my NHS GP and I am white, I’m middle-class, I’m middle-class, and English-speaking. If I’m struggling, what does that mean for the majority of people globally? They're not having a voice and they’re struggling. – Dr. Louise Newson
• Menopause lasts forever (i.e. until the day we die). It's not just something to get you through until the next job interview, or the next phase of your life, or the next relationship. It is forever. You have to make sure the [treatment] choice you make is right for you. – Dr. Louise Newson
• Hormones are good but they’re not going to help me as  much as if I look after myself. – Dr. Louise Newson
• 
  

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Definitive Guide to the Perimenopause and Menopause by Dr. Louise Newson- https://amzn.to/3Rf4LFQ

Newson Health Menopause and Wellbeing Centre - https://www.newsonhealth.co.uk/book-an-appointment/

Balance App - https://www.balance-menopause.com/balance-app/

The Dr. Louise Newson Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/7dCctfyI9bODGDaFnjfKhg?si=b382cda4537246d5&nd=1&dlsi=b4764565942d4037

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.drlouisenewson.co.uk/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/menopause_doctor/

Twitter - https://x.com/drlouisenewson

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@menopause_doctor

Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/7dCctfyI9bODGDaFnjfKhg?si=b382cda4537246d5&nd=1&dlsi=b4764565942d4037

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Women’s basketball is on the rise and The Women’s Hoops Show is here for every buzzer-beater, breakout star, and game-changing moment. Join host Jordan Robinson as she dives deep into the WNBA, college hoops, and the rise of new leagues like Unrivaled to bring you insightful conversations with players, coaches, and analysts. If you love women’s basketball, this is your year-round home for the biggest stories in the game.

In this special SXSW2025 edition of For the Love, Jen Hatmaker sits down with Dr. Stacey Ludwig Johnson, the Senior VP and Executive Dean at Western Governors University (WGU) School of Education. As a lifelong advocate for educators, Dr. Johnson is at the forefront of reimagining how we train, support, and sustain teachers in today’s challenging educational landscape.

Jen, a former teacher herself, brings her deep passion for education into this conversation, unpacking the real issues educators face today—from teacher shortages to burnout—and discussing how innovative models like WGU’s competency-based education are transforming access to learning.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Dr. Johnson’s Path to Leadership: How she transitioned from working in corrections to becoming a pioneer in online education.

Competency-Based Education: What it is, how it differs from traditional models, and why it’s a game-changer for adult learners.

Educator Burnout & Retention: The state of teacher well-being and what’s being done to ensure teachers not only enter the profession but thrive in it.

School & Community Support for Teachers: How schools, administrators, and parents can create environments where teachers feel valued.

Future Trends in Education: How AI, technology, and apprenticeship programs are shaping the next generation of educators.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “We don’t believe in courses just for the sake of courses. Everything at WGU is designed to build skills that translate directly into a career.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson

• “Retention is just as critical as recruitment—if we don’t take care of our teachers, we will never solve the teacher shortage crisis.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson

• “Teachers are literally helping us raise the next generation. Every second of what they do matters.“ - Jen Hatmaker

• “The future of education must include personalization, technology integration, and real-world experience to prepare students for success.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Learn more about WGU: wgu.edu

Guest’s Links:

• Interested in becoming a teacher or continuing your education? WGU offers flexible, affordable degree programs designed for working adults.

Website - https://www.wgu.edu/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/westerngovernorsu/

Twitter - https://x.com/wgu

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/wgu.edu/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/WesternGovernorsUniv

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@wgu

Stacey Ludwig Johnson’s Website - https://www.wgu.edu/blog/authors/stacey-ludwig-johnson.html

Stacey Ludwig Johnson’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacey-ludwig-johnson-0bba1715/

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Tw ...

Description:

In the spirit of Spring Break, which it is for us here in Texas, we’re taking a quick break from our regular podcast lineup to do something fun. Recent listeners of the podcast will know that we’ve added a voicemail feature to the podcast and, for a few weeks, we’ve been asking you to leave us messages with your thoughts on recent episodes and questions for us. And boy you have! The messages we’ve received run the gamut from candid and vulnerable to gutsy and inspirational and some were just hilarious (though not all of them were appropriate for the airwaves but we still love them so KEEP THEM COMING).

Today, we’re responding to a few of our favorite messages from women in our listening community who shared messages that we think will resonate with you on multiple levels. Our thanks to Naomi, Mollie, Jamie, Laura, and one special anonymous caller for sharing their thoughts for all of us to enjoy.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• "We need to wear what we feel comfortable in, what we feel pretty in. There are no rules!" – Listener Voicemail
• “I broke up with my effort last week. I literally sat myself down and said, ‘I am not responsible for making this person happy.’” – Jen Hatmaker
• "Loud quitting is about being clear, setting boundaries, and walking away from what no longer serves you—without apology." – Amy Hardin
• "Once we stop our frantic interventions to manage someone else’s life, it turns out, that’s when they start to do their own work—even our kids." – Jen Hatmaker
• “There is no such thing as ‘too late.’ We are only getting more time and space to dream new dreams.” – Amy Hardin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• The Devil Wears Prada film (2006) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458352/
• Warning poem by Jenny Joseph - https://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poem/warning/
• Freedom From Codependency with Melody Beattie - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-56/freedom-from-codependency-with-melody-beattie/
• Finding Freedom with Mel Robbins and Two Little Words: Let Them - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/finding-freedom-with-mel-robbins-and-two-little-words-let-them/
• Atlas of the Heart by Brené Brown - https://amzn.to/4hkHNb7
• Awaken to Your Next Chapter: Artist and Activist Lisa Congdon on Imagining a More Beautiful Life - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/awaken-to-your-next-chapter-artist-and-activist-lisa-congdon-on-imagining-a-more-beautiful-life/
• Sacred Reimagination: When Faith Evolves with You: Erin Hicks Moon - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/sacred-reimagination-when-faith-evolves-with-you-erin-hicks-moon/
• Jane Fonda - https://www.janefonda.com/
• Saturday Night Live 50th Anniversary Special - https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/snl-50-anniversary-special-how-watch-time-cast-rcna191588
• Stuart Smalley - https:/ ...

Title: Fixing the Broken Pieces with Ian Morgan Cron 

Description:

Everyone is an addict. Mr. Rogers…The Dali Lama… Michelle Obama! Mull that idea over for a minute and when you’re done being outraged like we were, join us for this enthralling conversation with one of our favorite repeat guests on For the Love – author, psychotherapist, and Episcopal priest, Ian Morgan Cron. Today, we’re talking to him about his new book, The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.

People pleasing, the need to be right, being a compulsive helper, workaholism, being a knowledge junkie, perfectionism, holding on to our past suffering – these are all forms of addiction. The simple truth is, we each resort to our own methods of dealing with the harder aspects of life. For some, that solution means turning to a substance to numb our pain, which is how we traditionally think of addiction. For others, there are behaviors we employ to manipulate what we are feeling. And that’s where the rest of us fall into the sticky trap.

Ian, who also hosts the wildly popular Typology podcast exploring the mystery of the human personality, teaches us how the Twelve Steps are a trusted tool for anyone seeking to move beyond self-help to a more profound sense of awakening. 

And, in a new segment called “To My Younger Self”, Jen and Amy share some deeply personal experiences that, for Amy, helped change her relationships and, for Jen, helped change how she viewed herself.  

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“People don’t have one addiction; people are poly-addicted. They’re seething cauldrons of addiction.” – Ian Morgan Cron

“All human beings have a natural and innate hunger for union with the divine. The problem is when we go in search of counterfeit experiences of the divine that lead to disappointment, disillusionment and disaster.” – Ian Morgan Cron

“Most Twelve Steps meetings happen in church or synagogue basements, after hours. And I wondered, does anyone upstairs know about the miracles that are going on downstairs? And why can’t we release what’s happening down here so that people up there can take advantage of it?” – Ian Morgan Cron

“When you can admit powerlessness, it’s a relief that it’s not on you anymore.” – Ian Morgan Cron

“When you frame an addiction as a solution to a problem, albeit an inadequate one, what follows is compassion, not judgment or condemnation.” – Ian Morgan Cron

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Five Calls app – https://5calls.org/

I Poop on Fascists Sticker - https://bit.ly/4gWiFHx

The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between by Ian Morgan Cron - https://amzn.to/3Xgx6PK

The Fix Workbook: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone in Between by Ian Morgan Cron - https://amzn.to/3DiTReV

How to Mitigate Stress Based on Your Personality – FREE DOWNLOAD - https://typologyinstitute.com/stress 

The Typology Institute Enneagram Assessment by Ian Morgan Cron - https://typologyinstitute.com/assessment

Typology Podcast - https://www.typologypodcast.com/

The Road Back to You: A ...

Description:This month in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, we’re reading a novel that doesn’t just tell a story—it inhabits one.

Jen sits down with author Maddie Mortimer to talk about Maps of Our Spectacular Bodies, a breathtaking and formally inventive debut that explores what it means to live inside a body that is changing, remembering, and, ultimately, letting go. At the center is Lia, a woman living with terminal cancer—but this story unfolds as a chorus, with voices that include her family, her own inner world, and even the cancer itself.

Together, Jen and Maddie explore the deeply personal roots of the novel, including Maddie’s own experience of losing her mother, and how that grief shaped the book’s emotional precision. They talk about why she chose to move beyond a traditional narrative and instead capture the feeling of illness—the disorientation, the fractured sense of time, and the way memory lives not just in the mind, but in the body.

They also tap into the book’s striking structure—the visual and sensory journey it creates for readers—and how that imaginative form is now being adapted for the stage, bringing the story full circle to Maddie’s theatrical roots.

In this conversation, we consider what it means to listen to the body as a narrator, how love shows up in the smallest moments, and why stories like this invite us to pay closer attention to the life we are living right now.

This one is tender, surprising, and quietly unforgettable.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guest’s Links:

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/maddiemortimer/

Twitter - https://x.com/MaddieMortimer

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

★ “For me, the writing process was much more about thinking of cancer and the way that it moves through language and how language can metastasize on the page and the rhythm of this incredibly hyperactive virus, this illness kind of consuming a body, the way that a dark thought could consume a mind.” – Maddie Mortimer★ “I'm quite a restless reader and I think I get bored quite quickly. What I look for in books is that immediacy of how exciting a sentence is or how funny or moving or strange it is.” – Maddie Mortimer ★ “So much of the process of putting words on a page and writing fiction, specifically, is that you surrender yourself. I think it's less about me feeling like I know anything or have anything to say, but more about removing myself so that you feel like you're listening to the world and to the people that you've met, and the impressions that you, your body, whatever, have absorbed.” – Maddie Mortimer★ “The realm of the playground is the page. It’s where anything goes.” – Maddie Mortimer★ “There's something really special about a group of people in a room that are willing to give their time to writers reading their words. It’s got that kind of religious, congregational quality to it.” – Maddie Mortimer➢ Maps of Our Spectacular Bodies by Maddie Mortimer - https://amzn.to/3NRIPCC➢ 

Description:

Lisa Congdon may be an internationally known fine artist, illustrator and writer but she didn’t achieve momentum in her career until she was nearly 40 years old. Prior to that time, she felt that her life hadn’t mattered much, that she didn’t have anything interesting to say. But, a total career pivot in her mid-thirties awakened a passion in her that had been lying dormant for decades and helped her find her powerful, beautiful voice. Despite taking an untraditional path, Lisa has achieved recognition, not just as an artist, but as a leader in the industry for her work in social justice, mentoring and teaching. Lisa says making art is what changed her relationship to her story.

Today, Jen and Amy talk to Lisa Congdon about:

• What it looks and feels like to awaken to new possibilities in life
• The power of finding and harnessing your voice, something Lisa covers more in her book, Find Your Artistic Voice: The Essential Guide to Working Your Creative Magic
• How two really big things (joy and activism) can coexist in artistic expression
• Lisa’s game-changing practice of “loud quitting” the things that no longer bring joy or something positive into her life

***

Segments:

Bless & Release: Loud Quitting

Thought-provoking Quotes:

I decided to develop a new narrative for my life and what it could become. I needed to start believing that I was worthy of love. – Lisa Congdon

I think I’ve always been an artist and a maker and super-creative but I was operating in self-doubt. I learned to give myself permission to play and explore and change my own life. I was lit on fire because, for so many years, I had no sense of agency. But suddenly, I could do whatever I wanted, C

I think my work is the marriage of a passion for social justice with the authentic joy I have for life. – Lisa Congdon 

I found myself in a place where I was exhausted, miserable and doing things out of obligation. I worked hard at letting go. I got in a systematic process of taking inventory of my life, how I was spending my time. Every time I felt a rush of anxiety about doing something, I would stop and examine it. – Lisa Congdon

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Find Your Artistic Voice: The Essential Guide to Working Your Creative Magic by Lisa Congdon - https://amzn.to/4kkYAO1

Art, Inc.: The Essential Guide for Building Your Career as an Artist by Lisa Congdon - https://amzn.to/4ij5Ms2

The Live Your Values Deck - https://lisacongdon.com/products/values-deck

Lisa Congdon’s St. Mary’s College Exhibit - https://www.stmarys-ca.edu/museum-art/lisa-congdon-hold-it-lightly

Corita Kent - https://www.corita.org/

Guest’s Links:

Lisa’s website - https://lisacongdon.com/

Lisa’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lisacongdon

Lisa’s Twitter - https://x.com/lisacongdon

Lisa’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lisacongdonart

Lisa’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/lisacongdon/

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Description:

Cancer is a tough topic—hard to discuss, isolating, and disorienting for those facing it. For Tyler Merritt, a beloved voice in the JHBC community, confronting mortality sparked a fresh perspective on life.

Tyler joins Jen to talk about This Changes Everything, his humorous and heartfelt love letter to life after battling cancer. With his signature humor, pop culture nods, and musical theater references (plus a killer playlist), Tyler weaves candid stories of surgery and treatment with playful asides—think a five-page play about his appendix and Taylor Swift-inspired subtitles.

Things may go off the rails when Jen and Tyler debate whether words like “lovers” and “making love” are officially outdated—we apologize in advance.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Because of the way your book is written, in real time and with such urgency, I think 100 people out of 100 will go straight to their phones after finishing the book and Google ”is Tyler Merritt still alive?” – Jen Hatmaker

I found out pretty quickly that I was using a lot of humor to cover my fear. Even in the worst possible scenarios, even though I was sometimes walking with death, it felt like, if I looked around, there was humor. – Tyler Merritt

For people that are in the horrible cancer club, if you have something in your life that has created change in your every day, or something that has made things scary, you’re not alone. You’re blessed to still be here and breathing. – Tyler Merritt

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/3Clgwa2

Jen Hatmaker Book Club - https://bit.ly/40KOQ7U

I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/4hjiPcC

Publisher’s Weekly synopsis - https://www.publishersweekly.com/9781546006961

A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/4hvCkPn

Cujo - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085382/

Annie - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083564/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_8_tt_2_nm_6_in_0_q_annie

Where the Red Fern Grows by Wilson Rawls - https://amzn.to/4gdEbqG

Train - Drops of Jupiter - https://open.spotify.com/track/2hKdd3qO7cWr2Jo0Bcs0MA

Blackberry Farms - https://www.blackberryfarm.com/

This Changes Everything playlist - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0jFoCxX22lzohvdd2tLfkQ

Sandi Patti - https://www.sandipatty.com/

Taylor Swift - https://www.taylorswift.com/

Prince - https://www.prince.com/

RENT - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0294870/

AUDIOBOOK: This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don't Talk About by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/3Cm1YHa

Book People (Austin) - https://www.bookpeople.com/

Description:

In this second installment of our special Midlife Renaissance series, the delightful Erin Hicks Moon joins Jen and Amy for a super resonant conversation to discuss what it looks like when the faith that you grew up with bears no resemblance to your current values and what matters to you today. But Erin reassures us that if our faith looked like it did 10, 15, even 20 years ago, we would not be evolving.

Erin is the host and resident bible scholar of the Faith Adjacent podcast and author of I’ve Got Questions: The Spiritual Practice of Having It Out with God. She’s a thoughtful guide for processing our questions, curiosity, and doubt.   

Women naturally come into midlife with a posture of comfort in things they are sure of and curiosity to explore the things that they aren’t. There are many people searching for answers in the wilderness of faith but, as Erin reminds us, our questions can lead to a more vibrant and joyful faith.

***

Segments

Midlife Glowup: Trying new things

Amy gives an update on her decision to go out on a limb as a newly-minted podcaster and Jen shares what it’s like to date again in your fifties. 

Thought-provoking Quotes:

We do spiritual practices to be connected to God and I think we overcomplicate it with rigid checklists. – Erin Hicks Moon

Really working through the grief, and the sadness, and anger of watching your faith be weaponized or coming from a church that has split over something really difficult, or something personal in your life, something on a world stage. I think we have to be honest in that grief. That is a really difficult thing when you’re surrounded by toxic positivity in the church.Sometimes it sucks and we have to be honest about that. – Erin Hick Moon

We can still have a relationship with God, we can still have faith, but it doesn’t have to look the way everyone else says it should look. – Erin Hicks Moon

I’m shocked when I have conversations with people who I really did not know grew up in the church and it turns out we have so many of the same beliefs; we’ve been evolving on parallel tracks but they just choose not to identify that way. – Amy Hardin

I have never met one person who has gone through deconstruction and/or because they wanted to sin more. The overwhelming pattern is that they want to figure this out and at the end of the process, they end up with a faith that is stronger than what they began with. – Erin Hicks Moon

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

I've Got Questions: The Spiritual Practice of Having It Out with God by Erin Hicks Moon

I've Got Questions Guided Journal: Prompts and Practices for Rewilding Your Faith by Erin Hicks Moon 

Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/

Anne Lamott - https://www.instagram.com/annelamott/

Bridgerton - https://www.netflix.com/title/80232398

Eugene Peterson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_H._Peterson

The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth by Beth Allison Barr

Pastor Trey - https://www.instagram.com/pastortrey05/

Dallas Willard - https://dwillard.org/

Guest’s Links:

Description:

In this special episode, we welcome Barnard College professor and accomplished author, Jennifer Finney Boylan, back to the show to discuss her latest labor of love, her book Cleavage, which examines the divisions – as well as the common ground – between the genders, and reflects on her experiences, both difficult and joyful, as a transgender American.

Jenny discusses the importance that things like nuance,imagination, patience, empathy and understanding hold in our divided world, reflecting on her experiences as a transgender woman and noting that for many, “living your best life is not necessarily a political decision, but a matter of life and death.” The ultimate thing she wants, Jenny says, is just to be left alone, to live her life and to be free.

Segments

Bless & Release: Gender stereotypes

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Conversations about trans-women in sports are complicated and demand nuance, patience, and imagination. For us to be defined by the most difficult and controversial aspects of our existence is really unfair. – Jennifer Finney Boylan

I’m not a woman with an asterisk. At 66 ½ years old, my life has a lot more in common with other women my age than you would think. My life does not revolve around me trying to sneak into your daughter’s soccer game. My life revolves around my family, and reading, and teaching my students, and working in the garden, and things that I hope would seem very familiar to people. – Jennifer Finney Boylan

These are hard times. But we do know that hard times come and hard times go. And, whatever this moment is, is not forever. Although I can’t underestimate exactly how hard it is to be singled out by the President of the United States as a person who specifically is not deserving of love or respect or basic human kindness. – Jennifer Finney Boylan

Nobody goes from male to female in hopes of getting a better deal. – Jennifer Finney Boylan

I hope people will pick up and read Cleavage not because they want to understand more about the trans business but because they want to know what sorts of choices people can make when they feel that the world is against them and there is no room for them. I have found, against all odds, that there is room for me, that I have been loved, and, on a good day, the world is full of joy and humor. – Jennifer Finney Boylan

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Cleavage: Men, Women, and the Space Between Us by Jennifer Finney Boylan 

Mad Honey: A GMA Book Club Pick: A Novel by Jennifer Finney Boylan

Roxane Gay

She's Not There: A Life in Two Genders by Jennifer Finney Boylan

Jennifer Finney Boylan’s New York Times articles - https://www.nytimes.com/column/jennifer-finney-boylan

I Am Cait (Caitlin Jenner Show) - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/i-am-cait/umc.cmc.38b55qpveo4xdxypnk03xfvmp

Torrey Peters - https://www.torreypeters.com/

Kate Bornstein - http://katebornstein.com/

Trans Bodies Trans Selves: a Resource Guide for the Transgender Community - http://transbodies.com/

John Barth - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barth

Title: Midlife Renaissance: Building Your Belonging Circle with Dr Thema Bryant

Description:

Today, we’re revisiting a popular topic on this show: Friendships. More specifically, the revival of our friendships and our capacity for friendships in midlife. How many of us have sacrificed a relationship or a piece of ourselves in order to fulfill the implied demands of our role as a wife or mother or woman with a career? 

Dr. Thema Bryant is a renowned psychologist, author, professor, sacred artist, and minister, who empowers women to connect with themselves and to others by exploring fun and comfortable topics like our control issues and emotional unavailability with practical activation activities and teaching how to shift our mindset and patterns.

Today, we’re delving into the impacts of loneliness, the complexities of navigating new and evolving friendships in midlife, and the importance of self-love and “coming home” to ourselves before we can build a community that can support us in the way we need it to.

Aha moments from this episode include:

• Common reasons why midlife can feel isolating to some women
• The role major life changes (e.g., career shifts, divorce, empty nesting) play in creating a sense of disconnection
• Signs that a friendship or community is not serving us well, including navigating shifts in those friendships and letting go of what no longer serves us and welcoming new connections
• Practical activation exercises, such as writing vows to yourself, that you can practice to strengthen your relationships with yourself and others

Plus, Jen and Amy debut a new segment called “Zero Damns to Give” where they suss out what stuff really matters in this stage of their lives and what can be cast off, allowing them to step into full authenticity—without guilt, shame, or over-explanation.

***

Segments

Zero Damns to Give: Unapologetic midlife edition

Thought-provoking Quotes:

When I observe someone making a polite but clear boundary, I respect it. I’m impressed. – Jen Hatmaker

Can you come to the place where you admit, I miss myself? And myself is not my labor. Myself is not my roles. Myself is a living soul and one of the things that feeds my soul are my friendships but those got neglected because I was told that to be a good leader or to be a good mom, I had to deprioritize the things that nourished me. – Dr. Thema Bryant

If a community is not ready-made, something for you to join, it’s something for you to create. – Dr. Thema Bryant

Our wellness is more important than our loyalty. – Dr. Thema Bryant

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Matters of the Heart: Healing Your Relationship with Yourself and Those You Love by Dr. Thema Bryant - https://amzn.to/40XMql6

Homecoming: Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim Your Whole, Authentic Self by Dr. Thema Bryant - https://amzn.to/4hVYQ4c

The Homecoming Podcast with Dr. Thema Bryant - https://soundcloud.com/dr-thema-bryant-davis

Guest’s Links:

Thema’s website - https://drthema.com/

Thema’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dr.thema/

Thema’s Twitter - https://x.com/drthema

Thema’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ThemaBryantDavis

Back in the olden days of the 1990s with our dial-up internet and AOL accounts, twelve-year-old Brian Kelly was at home honing his budding interest in travel planning by booking his family vacations and maximizing the reach of his family’s points and frequent flyer miles. Cut to a few decades later and that hobby (which started as a small-time blog powered by affiliate-marketing, which his mom was convinced was a scam) has evolved into a whirlwind operation that the world now knows familiarly as “The Points Guy”. 

Brian Sherpas us through all of the twists and turns of booking travel to eliminate the headaches and get THE MOST bang for our buck.

Highlights from this chat include: 

• Why Brian thinks this is “the Platinum Age of Travel” 
• Mastering family travel – Brian has been to sixteen countries with his two-year-old and is currently planning a month-long trip to Thailand with his newborn so he’s figured this out!
• How, when leveraged correctly, you can finance your travel using your loyalty points
• The 3 main types of rewards to have on your radar
• Surprisingly helpful hacks to avoid jetlag
• And Jen shares a hilarious story about a flight to Spain seated next to a nun that quickly got out of hand

Segments:

Rant or Rave: Early Airport Arrivals

GenXCellence: 80s/90s Travel

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

When people tell me that because of my knowledge, they were able to get the family together this year, that’s why I do what I do.– Brian Kelly

Having points in a transferable currency is like an insurance policy. – Brian Kelly

Find where the deals are. That’s how you really save. Let the deal define your destination, especially if you’re booking multiple tickets. That’s when you save real money. Spend your money on the horseback riding experience, spend it on the meals, and the fun. – Brian Kelly 

You need to be your own advocate. I see people melting down in airports and getting bullied around, screaming at airline agents – the ones who hold all the power. I think people need a mentality shift because they assume they are owed something when they’re not. You need to know when to ask for favor and when you are owed something. It makes all the difference. – Brian Kelly

Description:

Jen first met Tressie McMillan Cottom the way most normal people meet – under the bright lights on the set of an Oprah special, invited by Ms. Winfrey to speak on a panel, along with other influential voices including Rebel Wilson, Amber Riley, Katie Sturino, Jamie Kern Lima, Busy Philipps and others to talk about diet culture, the harmful narratives we have surrounding our weight and our bodies, and how we can begin reframing the conversation away from one centered in shame to one focused on body acceptance. The entire studio was gobsmacked by Tressie which is fitting given that she is a prominent cultural commentator and Professor at UNC Chapel Hill. Her work explores the loaded and nuanced ideas like racial capitalism, beauty standards, the exploitation of higher education systems, but in a way that we ordinary Joe’s can understand. We knew immediately that she was destined to be a guest on our show and today is the day.

Segments:

Bless & Release: The News Cycle

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

I think every life has a trauma so there’s nothing really special about mine. But whatever your trauma is, you are usually faced with a decision, which is, do I want to be who I was before this or am I going to be something different? – Tressie McMillan Cottom

I love really hard questions. I am my happiest, most connected, most joyful, when I am trying to disentangle a really hard social problem that I think everybody has got wrong. I’m really attracted to those things where our beliefs are totally counter-intuitive, where our gut is telling us something is there but the picture is fuzzy, and I think I’m attracted to that because my path was so abnormal and so unique and I know that I wouldn’t have existed if people had just gone along with what was supposed to be. – Tressie McMillan Cottom

I thought my grandmothers sounded as intelligent as my professors and so I really struggled with the idea that there was something counterfeit or illegitimate about them and their stories and the things that I had learned from them. - Tressie McMillan Cottom

History is weirdly comforting when we can look at our worst impulses and know this isn't the first time we’ve faced this level of chaos and inequality and systemic injustice. It’s just our generation’s turn. – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Leave us a voicemail- https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/ Click the “Send Voicemail” tab on the right side of the page

Pantsuit Politics - https://www.pantsuitpoliticsshow.com/

Allison Gill - https://allisongill.com/

The Daily Beans | News with Swearing - https://www.dailybeanspod.com/

Lower Ed: The Troubling Rise of For-Profit Colleges in the New Economy by Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://amzn.to/4hv6dPF

Thick: And Other Essays by Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://amzn.to/3Co8gWX

Dr. Tressie McMillan Cottom’s New York Times newsletter - https://www.nytimes.com/by/tressie-mcmillan-cottom

Tressie’s MacArthur Fellowship - https://www.macfound.org/fellows/class-of-2020/tressie-mcmillan-cottom

Oprah + Weight Watchers: Making the Shift special - https://www.weightwat ...

Title: No Such Thing As Good or Bad Kids: Dr. Shefali on Conscious Parenting

Description:

Today, we’re taking a trip into the archives to revisit a 2023 episode with renowned clinical psychologist and listener favorite, Dr. Shefali Tsabary, where we dove into the deeply-layered topic of conscious parenting. Those of us in the middle of life, still parenting kids at home, adjusting to parenting adult children who just launched out into the world. or in any season of the parenting journey, really, will find much to learn as we look back (and forward) at our parenting patterns.

Highlights from this convo include:

• Defining conscious parenting and the three stages of the parenting map
• Debunking the notion that as parents we are supposed to create happy, perfect superhumans by following traditional parenting rules
• Dismissing the notion that there are good kids and bad kids—and how to avoid using these labels
• Revealing the five ego patterns that parents might not even realize inform their quest to raise amazing children
• The three reasons why children act out or misbehave and how you can learn not to shame them for it
• The results of over-parenting and how it shows up in your adult children
• How it’s never too late to become a mindful parent

Segments:

Bless and Release: Avoiding difficult conversations

Thought-provoking Quotes:

The evolution of the planet depends on the evolution of the parent. – Dr. Shefali

Everyone wants a new tomorrow. But what we don’t realize is that a new future comes with an absolute willingness to disrupt the past. – Dr. Shefali

There is no such thing as a good kid or a bad kid. So, what kind of kids are there? Just kids – just humans who are terribly flawed like we are, and terribly, but amazingly blissful like we are. They’re just this unique combo and they defy labels. – Dr. Shefali

Punishment, shaming, blaming is never sustainable. I cannot tell you how many times a day I tell parents, ‘Listen, you appear to get control in the moment, but long term, it’s going to be unforgiving.’ – Dr. Shefali

How do we constantly show our presence [to our adult children]? Unequivocal cheerleading. ‘I’m thinking of you. I miss you. I’m remembering you. I adore you.’ Let them know they are on your mind but not involved in their day-to-day. – Dr. Shefali

When the ego crumbles, proportionately the heart expands, and you then are just this heart-centered being able to connect to the other people in a very attuned, compassionate, genuine way. And your children will feel it. – Dr. Shefali

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Conscious Parent by Dr. Shefali Tsabary - https://amzn.to/4aNAPd8

The Parenting Map by Dr. Shefali Tsabary - https://amzn.to/3EER148

Dr. Shefali’s previous interview on For the Love:Releasing The Fantasy of “The Good Girl” with Dr. Shefali Tsabary - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-35/releasing-the-fantasy-of-the-good-girl-with-dr-shefali-tsabary/

Guest’s Links:

Dr. Shefali’s website - https://www.drshefali.com/

Dr. Shefali’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/doctorshefali

Dr. Shefali’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/doctorshefali

Description:

Chip Leighton is a guy whose kids describe him as an “unemployed, middle-aged TikTokker“. He has turned the chaos of parenting kids – teens, in particular, into comedy gold. By taking hilarious text from teens and turning them into reels, he keeps the internet in stitches. With his hilarious take on raising teenagers that is so relatable and mirrors so many parents' exact experiences, Chip helps countless moms and dads know that they are not alone in their wild journey. Now he’s compiling the best conversations from texts and real-life moments into his new book, What Time Is Noon?

Chip and Jen talk about: 

• The names we are given as parents of teens: Gangster, Bruh, or Jen’s favorite….Pimp
• Ridiculous questions our kids have asked, such as: Did grandma have kids? Am I a notary? Am I on Medicare? What’s a stamp? 
• Savage burns Chip’s kids have made about his wardrobe: Our favorite – “that looks like the material they make tents from”.
• Endless instructions from the teens on how not to be embarrassing in front of their friends
• Also, Chip tells the story of deciding to leave his corporate job to try his hand at standup (at the urging of one Caroline Rhea).

Segments:

Bless & Release: The clothes we made our kids wear

GenXCellence: Parenting in GenX versus GenZ

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

I’m nostalgic about the feral children going out riding their bikes, building forts, staying out till the streetlights came on. – Amy Hardin

It’s universal, it’s all teens. They don’t know how to dress properly for the weather. But they know what we (the parents) are doing wrong. – Jen Hatmaker and Chip Leighton

You wouldn’t have predicted that I would be funny. Neither of my parents were performers. I wasn’t the class clown. I’ve always had a dry sense of humor and I’ve appreciated that type of comedy, I’ve just kept it inside all these years. – Chip Leighton

I do believe that everybody has some strengths and interests and talents that aren’t necessarily fully leveraged in the typical career or job that they have and these new platforms help bring that out and there are more creative people able to connect with an audience now. – Chip Leighton

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

What Time is Noon?: Hilarious Texts, Ridiculous Feedback, and Not-So-Subtle Advice from Teenagers by Chip Leighton - https://amzn.to/4hp7qrH

Caroline Rhea - https://carolinerhea.com/

Guest’s Links:

Chip’s website - https://theleightonshow.com/

Chip’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/the_leighton_show/

Chip’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theleightonshow/

Chip’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzdstcflneJKZ_Qi5TQAvQQ

Chip’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@the_leighton_show

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Description:

It seemed like a good idea at the time… a twisty, suspenseful thriller set on a cruise ship. How could this not be the perfect story to build a little buzz and excitement in my community ahead of our upcoming Jen Hatmaker cruise? Did we get more than we bargained for?

Ruth Ware’s writing has rightfully been compared to that of suspense-queen, Agatha Christie, for featuring everyday female protagonists often white-knuckling it through some treacherous situations in places where they are isolated from any rescue – a glass house in the woods, an excluded ski resort, a remote tropical island, a boutique cruise ship! 

Today, Jen sits down with the author of our January 2025 JHBC pick to navigate the many twists and turns of The Woman in Cabin 10 and why so many of our readers are losing sleep this month thanks to her innate skill of setting a heart-pounding scene.  

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

People are comparing me to Agatha Christie which is kind of terrifying. The thing that is so brilliant about some of Christie’s books that I love the most is the closed room setting: the terrifying storm-wracked island, the luxury train in the middle of the snow storm, or the Dahabiya drifting down the Nile. What she does so brilliantly is that sense of corrupted luxury, that setting that should be really idyllic turns out horrific and becomes more and more claustrophobic and more terrifying. – Ruth Ware

I have never been on a cruise but I had a chance to look around a ship as a day passenger and I was so surprised by how much I got right. There was so much that I had guessed at and I turned out to be more correct than I ever could have imagined. – Ruth Ware

The way in which you write fear, to me, it feels the truest version of it when it’s not screaming, ‘you’re so scared, you can’t make a sound’ or ‘you’re so scared, you’re frozen – you can’t move.’ That to me, rings true. – Jen Hatmaker

I do try really hard to drop clues and play fair with the reader. I know as a reader, the feeling that I hate most, is what I feel like the writer has cheated me and there was information that I couldn’t possibly have known, stuff I couldn’t have guessed and that I find deeply irritating as a reader. I try always to feel like I played fair with the reader and they did have a chance of guessing it even if they didn’t get there. – Ruth Ware

Isn’t that why we love reading crime? It’s because you can have bad things happen in a fictional world. It doesn’t always get tied up in every single respect and yes, there’s sadness in terms that someone is usually dead. But there is some kind of restorative justice at the end. – Ruth Ware

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Woman in Cabin 10 by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/3DKHCrH

In a Dark, Dark Wood by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/400kQ6g

Agatha Christie - https://www.agathachristie.com/

Below Deck tv show - https://www.bravotv.com/below-deck

The Woman in Suite 11 by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/4gKYDk1

The Woman in Cabin 10 on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/the-woman-in-cabin-10-release-date-photos-news

We Live Here Now by Sarah Pinborough - https://amzn.to/4h7kkKN

Guest’s Links:

Ruth’s website - https://ruthware.com/

Description:If you’ve ever felt the quiet fear of placing your body—and your baby—into a healthcare system you don’t fully understand, this conversation is for you.

Today, Jen and Amy sit down with labor and delivery nurse, educator, and internet big sister Jen Hamilton to talk about her brand-new “book baby,” Birth Vibes. With more than a decade at the bedside and millions who trust her honest, compassionate voice, Jen has become a steady guide in one of life’s most vulnerable moments.

In this episode, we pull back the curtain on the delivery room—the expectations, fears, and surprises—and talk about what it actually means to feel prepared. Not in a rigid, checklist kind of way, but in a deeply personal, values-driven way. Because as Jen reminds us, birth isn’t something you control—it’s something you move through.

Today, we talk about:

• Why “perfect birth plans” often set us up for disappointment—and what to hold onto instead

• How to discover your own “birth vibes”—that blend of values, intuition, and informed choice that helps you advocate for yourself

• What it’s like to hold both roles—healthcare provider and influencer—with integrity in today’s world

• How even when birth doesn’t go as planned, it can still be empowering, informed, and deeply ours

Whether you’re expecting, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about the intersection of care, advocacy, and the body’s wisdom, this conversation will leave you feeling steadier, braver, and less alone.

Because at the end of the day, this isn’t just about birth. It’s about learning to trust yourself in the middle of something you can’t fully control—and finding your voice anyway.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “What an honor to be with people during the most vulnerable and impactful moments of their life.” – Jen Hamilton

• “I can watch someone have a birth that goes completely to plan but if they do not feel heard, respected, and empowered, they can leave that experience having negative feelings about what happened. And then, you can have somebody whose birth goes completely off the rails and they leave that experience looking back positively on it if they were heard, respected, empowered, and informed. It has so little to do with what happens and so much more to do with how it happens.” – Jen Hamilton

• “Birth plans are as individual as you are as a human.” – Jen Hamilton

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Birth Vibes: Stories and Strategies for an Empowered Birth by Jen Hamilton – https://amzn.to/4sXMrlp

• Birth Vibes Audiobook – https://amzn.to/4sXMwFJ

• Trauma: Life in the ER – https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215445/

• A Baby Story on TLC – https://go.tlc.com/show/a-baby-story-tlc-atve-us

• Nurse Hadley – https://nursehadley.com/

• Read the Red Letters Video - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKVrukwub7O/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

• Huff Post | This Viral Video Has People Talking About Christianity Vs 'MAGA Christianity' – https://www.huffpost.com/entry/this-viral-video-h ...

Description:

In this funny, refreshing, and irreverent conversation about parenting, Jen welcomes Caitlin Murray to the show to talk about her Big Time Adulting community space, the blog (and now podcast) that Caitlin started when her 5-year-old son was in cancer treatment for Leukemia, as a place to connect with other moms and parents craving funny, provocative, no-nonsense entertainment to distract themselves from the hamster wheel of life

Like a big sister, Jen offers encouragement to guide Cailin through the years to come, with the two ultimately agreeing that early childhood is hard but middle school is the real shit show.

They commiserate over: 

• Spirit Weeks, PTA obligations, and signing reading logs
• The idea of the 'Hardship Olympics' that creates unnecessary competition among women / moms
• Comparison parenting and why authenticity resonates more with their communities than curated perfection
• How community and humor that can be found in the everyday chaos of parenting

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

I had begun writing as a therapeutic outlet to family and friends. It was really just for me to put out there how I was feeling on these long days at the hospital and the things that I saw going on around me – the emotion and the stress of it all. I felt like I was protecting myself by saying exactly how I was feeling about what we were going through rather than having anyone assume what I was feeling or thinking. – Caitlin Murray

By the time I had been through hell and back for over three years of pediatric cancer with my son, I knew my worth as a mother. I don’t give a f*ck about what anyone has to say about who I am. I know I am a good damn mom. – Caitlin Murray

The things that you lay in bed at night and obsess over – things that you did poorly, when you lost your shit, you missed something or you messed up – it just falls right out of your kids' brains. It’s not the bones; it’s the soft tissue that sticks and makes it into their adult psyche. ‘I was deeply loved, I lived in a safe, secure home / family, my mom was into me, my mom thinks I’m funny, we laughed a lot in our home.’ That’s the stuff that lasts. Everything else turns into funny, comedic material. – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

McSweeney’s article - Did You Even Consider Every Possible Lived Experience Before Recklessly Posting Your Chili Recipe on Social Media? - https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/did-you-even-consider-every-possible-lived-experience-before-recklessly-posting-your-chili-recipe-on-social-media

Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/4h6cwcO

David Sedaris - https://amzn.to/3E48Qtm

Edith Eger - https://amzn.to/4hoXdM4

You’ll Grow Out Of It by Jessi Klein - https://amzn.to/40oiSNm

Guest’s Links:

Caitlin’s website - https://bigtimeadulting.blog/

Caitlin’s Big Time Adulting podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/7nBEnM3JLnpSsyzxWyKZJJ?si=3b76f80afad345b7

Caitlin’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bigtimeadulting/

Caitlin’s Twitter - https://x.com/Caitlin98714163

Buckle up, listeners. It was only a matter of time before our paths crossed with Mel Robbins, one of the most respected experts on change and motivation in the zeitgeist, and today is that day. Known for being the host of the #1 ranking education podcast in the world, bringing deeply relatable topics, tactical advice, tools, and compelling conversations to her audiences, Jen and Amy spend today’s hour diving into Mel’s “Let Them” theory, which is taking the world by storm, already delivering instant peace and freedom in the lives and relationships of people putting it into practice.

Together, they discuss:

• The difference between “Let Them” and “Let Me”
• Learning to release the white-knuckle grip we hold over other people’s behavior (and other things beyond our control)
• Reframing disappointment to view it as a gift (yes, it’s possible!)
• Repositioning self-worth inward, rather than leaving it dependent on others' opinions.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“For a lot of women, we spend so much time upstairs in our heads as people-pleasers and over-analyzers, over-thinking and ruminating, trying to get things perfect. That’s the last place I should be, personally. I need to drop into my body and get out of my head.” – Mel Robbins

“People reveal who they are and what they care about through their behavior. Ignore their words. Watch their behavior. Let people be who they are. Let them do what they’re going to do. Focusing on them is not where your power is.” – Mel Robbins

“The difference between ‘not my business’ and ‘let them’ is worlds apart. When you say, ‘not my business’, you’re scolding yourself. With, ‘let them’, you’re in the power position because you see what’s happening and are choosing to allow it without allowing it. You’re rising above it.” – Mel Robbins

“There’s something about learning that [people] aren’t ever going to change but that doesn’t mean your relationship can’t change for the better. When you let them be who they are, you create space for acceptance, the whole energy shifts.” – Mel Robbins

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Demotivators - https://despair.com/collections/

Effin Birds on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/effinbirds/

Van Morrison - https://www.vanmorrison.com/

No Hard Feelings by the Avett Brothers - https://open.spotify.com/track/0bgQ1hQrpP6ScdBZlDfLE2

Foo Fighters - https://foofighters.com/

DePeche Mode - https://www.depechemode.com/

The Cure - https://www.thecure.com/

Taylor Swift - https://www.taylorswift.com/

The 5 Second Rule: Transform Your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage by Mel Robbins - https://amzn.to/427OHwu

The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can't Stop Talking About by Mel Robbins - https://amzn.to/4hc53bE

The Mel Robbins Podcast - https://www.melrobbins.com/podcast

The Four Questions: For Henny Penny and Anybody with Stressful Thoughts by Byron Katie - https://amzn.to/3C7tKXT

My Legacy Podcast - https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-my-legacy-podcast-255793246/ ...

Description:

In this thought-provoking conversation, Jen and Amy speak with “poet laureate of the ordinary” Kelly Corrrigan about the valuable lessons from life she’s reflecting on in this season: the significance of saying hard things, the power of listening and understanding in relationships, observations from parenting and from a career as a writer, podcaster and storyteller, and the importance of participating in democracy, regardless of who is in power. In this episode, which was recorded on Election Day 2024 (prior to knowing the outcome) Kelly uses her trademark wit and steadfast wisdom to offer listeners evergreen words of encouragement for our political landscape and for our lives in whole.

Segments:

Bless & Release: Lies we tell ourselves

GenXcellence: MTV music videos

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“We have created this way of interpreting someone changing their mind as a flip-flopper and we have left no room for someone to grow.” – Kelly Corrigan

“Making is good for individual well-being. Having an inventor’s or innovator’s mindset is just good for society.” – Kelly Corrigan

“Once you say something out loud, it just gets smaller. It packs less of a punch. It’s the stuff that we’re holding and never saying to anyone that’s going to be the death of us.” – Kelly Corrigan

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Strumbellas - https://thestrumbellas.ca/

Arcade Fire - https://www.arcadefire.com/

Mt. Joy - https://www.mtjoyband.com/

Bless and Release sweatshirt - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/apparel-accessories/products/bless-release-sweatshirt

Jamie Wright - https://www.instagram.com/jamietheveryworst/

MTV - https://www.mtv.com/

American Bandstand TV show (1952-1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049993/

Madonna - Like a Virgin - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__rX_WL100

American Top 40 with Casey Kasem (1970-1988) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Top_40

The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan - https://amzn.to/3AgM14g

Tell Me More: Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I'm Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan - https://amzn.to/3UGcjUf

Kelly’s IG post about the NYC Marathon - https://www.instagram.com/p/DB7IZumy6aR/

National Lampoon’s Animal House film (1978) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077975/

Nantucket Project - https://nantucketproject.com/

Nantucket Project 2024 - Kelly Corrigan’s Annual Wrap-Up - https://nantucketproject.com/2-2024-gathering/

Aspen Ideas Festival - https://www.aspenideas.org/

TED - https://www.ted.com/

Marianne the Maker by Kelly Corrigan and Claire Corrigan Lichty - https://amzn.to/4hBUY92

George Sweetland (illustrator) - https://www.georgesweetland.org/

Description:

Life throws some challenging stuff at us. Sometimes we rely on traditional therapies and resources trusted in Western medicine to help us through. And sometimes, we need to look to alternative and newly emerging tools to experience the relief or breakthrough that we need. In today’s conversation, Mimi Bouchard, founder of the Activations app (formerly known as Superuman) shares her transformative journey from a troubled adolescence marked by substance abuse and self-doubt to becoming a successful entrepreneur and advocate for personal development. She discusses how her unique approach to 'activations' has helped her and so many others achieve emotional and mental wellbeing by utilizing unique audios that are a mix between a motivational podcast, cinematic music and guided visualization.

From guided visualization practices and breathwork to grounding, reiki, and other body work Jen and Amy also talk about other “woo-woo” wellness approaches that have been useful for them in their healing needs. 

For The Love listeners have an opportunity to try Activations at a steep discount on a yearly subscription by visiting activations.com/jen.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

It was the beginning of a completely new life for me. I’m not going to say that I woke up the next day and I was perfect and completely transformed. It’s obviously a mega-journey and it’s not linear and growth is so messy. – Mimi Bouchard 

I had to believe in myself. The only thing that got me there was just this core deep belief in myself that I had to develop. I didn’t have that in my younger years. Doing this work of personal development was the only thing that mattered when everyone else doubted me. It drove me. At the end of the day, it’s a very lonely journey at the beginning. I had to be alone a lot. I had to be the only one who deeply believed in myself. – Mimi Bouchard

When you’re feeling alive, it slows down time. What a blessing to be able to slow down time – life goes by so quickly. The more things we can do to slow down time, the better our lives will be, and more clear. You have to unnumb yourself. When you numb yourself so much, it’s very hard to get clear or get unstuck. It’s very easy to stay in your old ways and just numb, numb, numb until you just feel nothing anymore. – Mimi Bouchard

I think so much of it is the intention with which you do things. If you are open-hearted and seeking, a lot of tools can benefit you. – Amy Hardin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Success Principles: How to Get from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by Jack Canfield - https://amzn.to/3CYaVq7

Activations App - https://www.superhuman.app/home

Activate Your Future Self: The Secret to Effortlessly Becoming the Happiest, Healthiest and Wealthiest You by Mimi Bouchard - https://amzn.to/4gck8t6

Guest’s Links:

Mimi’s website - https://www.mimibouchard.com/about

Mimi’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mimibouchard

Mimi’s Twitter - https://x.com/mimibouchard

Mimi’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/officialmimibouchard

Activations App - https://www.superhuman.app/home

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website.

Description:

In part two of this epic conversation, we continue our journey around the globe with Sydney

Hatmaker to hear about some of the amazing adventures and experiences had during her six

months travelling across Europe and Asia on a tiny budget.

In this episode:

● We hear how staying connected while travelling can have some serious pros and cons

● Sydney tells us about the 200 hours of intense yoga training she underwent in the

magical landscape of the Indian Himalayan Mountains

● She tells us about her heart-pounding experience climbing a (LITERAL) active volcano,

Mount Rinjani in Indonesia, and how it was the hardest thing she has ever done

● And Sydney tells us how she ultimately decided that it was time to hang up the backpack

and come back home.

As you dream and make plans for 2025, we hope this episode inspires you to broaden your

horizons, to take chances, and to say yes to new things. One thing we are sure of is that this

once-in-a-lifetime adventure is sure to be repeated. The only question is where will we go?

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

I get why people climb mountains. It’s so empowering. You push up hard against the growing

edge of your own limits. I didn’t even know that I was capable of pushing myself that hard. You

just take that feeling and it's contagious, it spreads to other parts of your life. – Sydney

Hatmaker

I met this amazing 70 year old woman in one of my hosels in Turkey who started backpacking

when she retired. She had been all throughout the entirety of the Middle East. She was so

incredible. We all gathered around her. She had the most incredible stories. – Sydney Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The 9 Enneagram Types Descriptions - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/

Skyscanner - https://www.skyscanner.com/

Rick Steves Travel Guides - https://amzn.to/41mKeFX

Berghain Techno Club in Berlin - https://bit.ly/4gfaMNq

Sagrada Familia - https://sagradafamilia.org/en/

Jen’s MeCamp - https://bit.ly/3D1qX2I

The Banana Pancake Trail - https://trail.bananabackpacks.com/banana-pancake-trail/

Hostel World - https://www.hostelworld.com/

Pyramid Yogshala Yoga School - https://pyramidyogshala.com/

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

Description:

At 24 years old, Jennifer Hatmaker was parenting her first diaper baby on no sleep as a stay-at-home mom and pastor’s wife. By contrast, Jen’s second-born, Sydney Hatmaker, spent half of her 24th year on a gap year travelling the world and banking a lifetime of memories.

In this special two-part conversation, Sydney walks us through some of the best moments and lessons learned from her life-changing adventure, beginning in May in Berlin and ending in October in Vietnam. With stops along the way in Sicily, Turkey, Portugal, Spain, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Thailand, Sydney gives us some of her best tips for travelling solo on a shoestring budget. It might entail a 40-hour journey taking a car to a bus to a ferry to a bus, to another ferry, to a train, to a taxi, to a scooter, to a hostel, all to save $60, but the point is it can be done and she’s here to inspire us all with tales from her adventure.

Highlights from this conversation include:

• In our GenXcellence Travel-Edition, we reflect on what travel was like for us in the 80s-90s, before satellites and cell phones and Expedia (Sydney has never heard of Traveller’s Cheques) 
• Sydney gives us her best tips for getting into one of the world’s most popular techno clubs in Berlin (shh! It’s very hush-hush!)
• We learn about surfing camp on the coastline of the Portuguese Riviera 
• Why you need to budget more for European travel than Asian travel and how you can eat in Asia on $4 a day
• Sydney talks about learning to be comfortable travelling on her own and being in her own company – something she thought she was already good at but was pushed to new limits
• And a lot more…..

Be sure to tune in for part two of our conversation next week to hear how the story ends. 

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

I didn’t have a phone for the last two months of my trip. I still had a laptop so when I was at the hostel on wifi, I could do research and book things but it was a different kind of travel. I made the most of it and it ended up being a bit of an adventure.I obviously had an initial reaction of panic (not having a phone) but then I felt this complete freedom. – Sydney Hatmaker

I did have some big ideas that I would get something out of my system on this trip, that I would come home and settle down, get a real job, root down in one place but halfway through my trip I realized there is so much more (in the world) that I want to see. There’s so much to do, so much to see and explore and so many ways to make it happen. – Sydney Hatmaker 

Travelling feels different and way more real when you’re by yourself. I love my own company and my company is better than some random person that I’m not really connecting with. And realizing that, makes it really easy to connect with more people. – Sydney Hatmaker 

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The 9 Enneagram Types Descriptions - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/

Skyscanner - https://www.skyscanner.com/

Rick Steves Travel Guides - https://amzn.to/41mKeFX

Berghain Techno Club in Berlin - https://bit.ly/4gfaMNq

Sagrada Familia - https://sagradafamilia.org/en/

Jen’s MeCamp - https://bit.ly/3D1qX2I

The Banana Pancake Trail - https://trail.bananabackpacks.com/banana-pancake-trail/

Host ...

This week Jen and Amy sit down with actress, musician, and author Bethany Joy Lenz to discuss her deeply personal memoir, Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While also in an Actual Cult!). Bethany opens up about her experience in a high-control group, known as “The Big House Family” religious cult, the complexities of spiritual abuse, and how she found her way back to faith and autonomy with the help of a One Tree Hill fan. They explore themes of manipulation, resilience, and the power of telling your story.

This raw and inspiring conversation offers hope, clarity, and empowerment for anyone navigating their own path to freedom.

Jen and Amy “Rant or Rave” about New Year’s resolutions and Amy teaches us some creative perspectives to take to feel more successful in this space. 

And we reminisce about our favorite shows from the early 2000s. West Wing… the best! Criminal Minds, 24, Gray’s Anatomy, all bingeable. Gilmore Girls, c’mon. And what about One Tree Hill?

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

It doesn’t feel like a courageous act. It’s survival. Courage is when you are fully aware of the dangers that lie ahead – like a fireman, willing to run into a burning building to grab a baby – that’s courage because you know what’s at stake. When you are already in the burning building trying to find your way out, it doesn’t take courage, it’s survival – “find me the exit, how do I get out?” – Bethany Joy Lenz

My faith has evolved into something that is much more connected to my gut which feels much more authentic. I feel a lot more comfortable asking questions and I really value doubt. The truth rises to the top. I think God is capable of communicating with all of us when it’s the right time in the right way. If the gospel shows us anything, it's that God meets us where we are. – Bethany Joy Lenz

I think a lot of Christians live in a space where we think it's very noble to not question God, like we think he’ll love us more, appreciate us more, we’ll be better disciples or believers. But he gave us the brains that we have for a reason. Is he capable of satisfying our intellect or not? So, push the button as hard and as far down as you can. It’ll hold. – Bethany Joy Lenz

God is big enough to hold all of you. There’s nothing that you can present to God that is going to scare him off. He can handle the worst version of you, the angry version of you, the confused version of you. You don’t need other people to hold you. The Bible is full of stories of God one-on-one with someone (Job, Moses, Jesus) so you don’t need to be afraid of being alone with the Lord. – Bethany Joy Lenz

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Paul Teal - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3806295/

Joy’s tribute to Paul Teal - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCf3CtopQt1/

Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While also in an Actual Cult!) - https://www.amazon.com/Dinner-Vampires-Life-While-Actual/dp/1668067307

Drama Queens Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/344eFGlcjmdAUqvWzPJzBk

Tim Keller sermon on Doubt - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/praying-our-doubts/id352660924?i=1000678149013

Modern Vintage News - https://www.modernvintagenews.com/

Guest’s Links:

Description:

In this delightful episode, Jen Hatmaker sits down with bestselling author Josie Silver, the brilliant mind behind One Day in December. Josie shares her journey from writing ten novels to achieving massive success with this enchanting Christmas love story. Together, Jen and Josie discuss the creative process, the inspiration behind her characters, and the challenges of crafting a love story that spans a decade.

Josie opens up about the unexpected ways her personal life influences her writing, how she brings authenticity to her characters, and what it feels like to finally hit her stride after years of writing. Whether you're a die-hard romance fan or simply looking for your next great read, this cozy conversation will inspire and entertain.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

You write the men you want them to be, not necessarily the men they are. That’s part of the magic of romance writing.” – Josie Silver

“I think a lot of the little, quiet moments in life—the shorthand between people who truly know each other—are what make stories feel real.” – Josie Silver

“Do you want help, or do you want a hug?” – Jen Hatmaker, reflecting on parenting young adults.

It was a joy to write this book. Some books come out more easily than others and, this one, I wrote in six weeks. Some books have taken six months, some have taken far longer; whereas this one, every time I sat down, everything just seemed to work. – Josie Silver

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

One Day in December: A Novel by Josie Silver - https://amzn.to/3OD2D9A

Guest’s Links:

Josie’s books - https://amzn.to/3VlTFl3

Josie’s website - https://josiesilver.com/

Josie’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/josiesilverauthor

Josie’s Twitter - https://x.com/josiesilver

Josie’s BlueSky - https://bsky.app/profile/josiesilver.bsky.social

Josie’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JosieSilverAuthor

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

Settle in, listeners. Jen and Amy have invited Greek and New Testament professor and scholar, Reverend Dr. Angela N. Parker to the show to reflect on the Advent season with some words of hope and liberation. She took our butts to seminary, opening our eyes to what it looks like when you examine the scripture through the lens of womanist theology and the experiences of Black women. But as Dr. Parker tells us, “I’ve lived long enough to know that God will bring me through but sometimes it’s hard and sometimes it hurts. But even after the hurt, the tender spots get more resilient.”

There’s so much to unpack in this one.

• Jen and Amy discuss their favorite Christmas movies and debate whether classics like Gremlins and Die Hard fit the genre 
• Dr. Parker explains how liberation is a collective journey, not an individual one – and how everyone, including white men, can need it.
• We learn how understanding the historical context of scripture is vital for its interpretation.
• And we also talk about some of the holiday hullabaloo we’re ready to Bless and Release this season.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“If I’m liberated, I don’t want to be liberated alone.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker

“We don’t want to think about the early church being enslavers.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker

“If our biblical text is wrestling with the idea of empire from Genesis to Revelation, we are wrestling with empire as well.” –– Dr. Angela N. Parker

“When we work as a collective, we actually do better to transform society.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker

“The tree at the end of Revelation 21 has the leaves for the healing of all the “Ethnae”, for all the ethnicities, for all the nations. That’s what John the Revelator sees in his final vision.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker

“In my own work, I talk about how I try to even get whiteness out of me. Even as an African American woman born and raised in these United States, there are elements of whiteness that are in me, on me and a part of me. That’s just what we swim in.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker

“Hope breaks forth in the midst of terror, fear, and overwhelm. It’s normal to have [those feelings]. Don’t trick yourself into ignoring them. It’s best for us to acknowledge what is going on around us but to remember that hope breaks through.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker

“I’ve lived long enough to know that God will bring me through but sometimes it’s still hard and sometimes it still hurts. But even after the hurt, the tender spots get more resilient.” – Dr. Angela N. Parker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Orange Theory - https://www.orangetheory.com/en-us

James Hal Cone - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Cone

Jacquelyn Grant - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquelyn_Grant

Delores Williams - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delores_S._Williams

Katie Cannon - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Cannon

Alice Walker - https://alicewalkersgarden.com/

Rev. Dr. Margaret Aymer - https://www.austinseminary.edu/cf_directory/dirprofile.cfm?p=2576&id=4459

Sisters in the Wilderness: The Challenge of Womanist God by Delores Williams - https://amzn.to/4eV3Nce< ...

This week Jen introduces Amy and the For the Love audience to her long-time friend, comedian Heather Land, who gained fame as a social media sensation through her viral I Ain’t Doin’ It videos. They discuss Heather’s journey from an early career in ministry to one in comedy, and now to her newest passion project, life coaching. Heather talks to Jen and Amy about the impact of burnout and the challenges of reinventing oneself, especially at different life stages and finding joy in her new creative project, the Dear Heathers podcast (that she co-hosts with best-friend Heather Lenard) encouraging other women to embrace their journeys and feel empowered.

In this episode:

• Jen and Amy share their mixed feelings on receiving unsolicited advice.
• Inspired by the Dear Heathers podcast, Amy and Jen reminisce about what it was like using landline phones when they were teens. Shocker: Jen even remembers her old phone number!
• The group talks about the importance of recognizing signs of burnout and how reinventing oneself is a vital part of personal growth
• Heather shares how support from friends can play a crucial role in our journey, like when her friend advised her to ‘do it [comedy] afraid’.
• Jen, Amy, and Heather talk about women looking to others with relatable stories when they go through difficult experiences and how community can be our greatest lifeline.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“What do I have to lose except my dignity?” – Heather Land

“Standup is maybe the hardest form of comedy. It’s not scripted. You don’t have directors and writers. It is a hot seat and it’s live. It’s sink or swim. You picked the hardest way to be funny.” – Jen Hatmaker

“You are in full integrity when you make a change when something is still working. That is a move that is in full alignment which is something to be proud of.” – Jen Hatmaker

“We ask kids ‘what do you want to be when you grow up?” and I don’t think we leave a lot of room for ‘What do I want to be next?’ or ‘what do I want to be when I’m 40, or 50, or 60?’.” – Heather Land 

“I’m sorry, I have not hired you as my life coach.” – Amy Hardin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Heather’s I Ain’t Doin’ It Playlist - https://youtu.be/slcwYADYwRc?si=Oe-m-0jf3-wDdVmH

Dear Heathers Podcast - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/podcast

Heather Lenard - https://www.heatherlenard.com/

Life Coaching with Heather Land - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/life-coach#book-an-appointment

Nichole Nordeman - https://www.instagram.com/nicholenordeman/

Susannah Lewis (Whoa Susannah) - https://whoasusannah.com/

Jen Hatmaker Book Club Cruise January 30-February 3, 2025 - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/pages/cruise

Only Murders in the Building - https://www.hulu.com/series/only-murders-in-the-building

Should men take baths? - Dear Heathers: Ep. 3 Bath Time with the Swon Brothers - https://apple.co/4eI6s9b

Guest’s Links:

Heathers’s website - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com ...

Description:This week, Jen and Amy sit down with actress, model, entrepreneur, and Lipstick on the Rim host Molly Sims for a conversation that starts light and breezy—backstage at a Hello Sunshine Shine Away event—and quickly moves into something deeper: what it’s like to live in a body that’s been watched, evaluated, and monetized for decades… and how your relationship to that body inevitably changes over time.

Molly has spent most of her life being seen. But what she shares here is what it’s taken to actually see herself.

Today, the discussion centers around the quiet (and sometimes jarring) shift into midlife. Molly opens up about figuring it out in real time, what surprised her most about this chapter, and the unexpected places where things have gotten easier.

There’s also an honest look at what it means to keep showing up in an industry with very loud opinions about women’s bodies—and how Molly now navigates beauty, skincare, procedures, and wellness without losing herself in the process. Where’s the line between empowerment and pressure? And who gets to decide?

But this conversation doesn’t stay theoretical. It lands in real life—in marriage, in motherhood, in the everyday negotiations of confidence and insecurity, and in the intentional ways Molly is trying to give her daughter a different starting point than the one she was handed.

Along the way, the discussion turns to influence, identity, and the kinds of conversations Molly is creating now that she wasn’t having earlier in her career. And in one of the most tender moments of the episode, she reflects on what she would say to her younger self—not to fix her, but just to sit beside her with a little more perspective.

This one feels like sitting across from someone who’s done a lot of living—and is finally comfortable telling the truth about it.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “To be in on something from the inception has given me a lot of fire to keep going.” – Molly Sims

• “My resilient wall of armor is very strong. I've been told I'm too fat, I'm too tall, I'm too dark, I'm too blonde. Sometimes shit needs to go wrong to give you that, okay, let's cry ourselves out of this hole and pull ourselves out.” – Molly Sims

• “To be in your forties and not have the energy of being in your twenties is a lot. It’s a lot. It’s a lot.” – Molly Sims

• “In my fifties, I’m more confident, I’m calmer, and I can handle a lot. But, I get tired.” – Molly Sims

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Raygun What The Hell Is Going On Here Tee - https://www.raygunsite.com/collections/home-page-special/products/what-the-hell

• Hello Sunshine Shine Away Event - https://hello-sunshine.com/shineaway-2/ 

• YSE BEAUTY - https://www.ysebeauty.com/  |  Get a 15% discount at YSE Beauty using the code FORTHELOVE15. Exclusions apply. 

• Lipstick on the Rim podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lipstick-on-the-rim/id1560226129

• Baby CO2 Laser Treatment

• Xtreme Glow Dewey Peptide Plumping Serum - https://www.ysebeauty.com/products/xtreme-glow-serum

• Organic I ...

Krista Tippett's work in the realm of spirituality and human experience is unparalleled. She just has a divine gift for distilling complex topics into clear, palatable information that we can sit with, dissect, and examine. She uses her OnBeing podcast as a place to conduct honest conversations with theologians and thought leaders about what it means to be human, what it means to be alive. Curiosity is welcome in her space. She brings a sense of calm to everything around her. So during the frenzy of the holidays, which can be both joyful and stressful, we wanted to circle back to this centering conversation with Krista to decompress and be at peace with the world. This conversation feels like an oasis in what is always a chaotic month so it’s our gift to bring it back for you this week. 

Segments:

Bless and Release: Rules for holiday decorating and making the holidays magical

GenXcellence: Essentials for outfitting a GenX space

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

If a thing is feeling stressful and not joyful, it needs to be re-evaluated. – Jen Hatmaker

I actually found in the Bible, reading it for myself directly, that it completely honored the questions, and it honored the anguish, and it was full of things that didn’t make sense or were contradictory. And for me that was an opening to not feel that faith had to be in opposition to what didn’t make sense or was contradictory. – Krista Tippett

There has to be a way to represent the complexity of this, and also the centrality of it, the fact that it’s more about questions than it is about answers, and the array of how we walk around with this, and what it means in our lives, and the ways we practice, and the vocabulary we have, and the different ways we pray. I wanted to show that you could talk about this and we could speak about the part of ourselves that we mean when we use language of religious or spiritual. – Krista Tippett

The sensibility, the intentionality with which something is offered, shapes the reaction that comes at it. – Krista Tippett

I do have a spiritual homeland and I do have a spiritual mother tongue. That matters. – Krista Tippett

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Walter Brueggeman – https://www.walterbrueggemann.com/

The Prophetic Imagination – https://onbeing.org/programs/walter-brueggemann-the-prophetic-imagination-dec2018/ 

Thích Nhât Hanh – https://plumvillage.org/ 

Desmond Tutu – https://www.tutu.org.za/ 

Mary Oliver – https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/mary-oliver 

I Got Saved By the Beauty of the World – https://onbeing.org/programs/mary-oliver-i-got-saved-by-the-beauty-of-the-world/

Guest’s Links:

OnBeing Podcast - https://onbeing.org/series/podcast/

Krista’s website - https://onbeing.org/our-story/krista-tippett/

Krista’s Twitter - https://x.com/kristatippett

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter ...

As we journey into this Advent season, Scott Erickson, better known to most by his moniker in the internet and art world as Scott the Painter, discusses his journey of faith and the creation of his 'Honest Advent,' project aimed at reinterpreting traditional Christmas narratives through a lens of vulnerability and authenticity. He reflects on the paradoxes of belief, the importance of community, and the need for honest conversations about faith and the human experience, particularly during the Advent season. With a great deal of compassion and humor, Scott shares insights into his creative process, the significance of connection in his work (which has resonated so deeply with his community that many have it tattooed on their bodies), and the need for honest spiritual experiences in today's world. His work is not just visually beautiful. It’s also meaningful, bringing a beautiful new approach to an old and familiar story.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“As an artist, I love the brand of Christmas – red and green, complimentary colors. I love the music – the soundtrack, I love all of it. But I thought, is this a distraction from life or is this a hopeful message for the reality of it?” – Scott Erickson

“I want to know if I should just give up on my beliefs. If God’s not in the world and this isn’t a story that’s happening, then I just want to move on. But, if we are celebrating this thing and if it is happening, then that’s what my invitation is. By going through those things, and thinking through, and praying through, and then creating out of it, the fact that it then becomes a path for others to walk, that’s the greatest gift in making art.” – Scott Erickson 

“It’s amazing, the alchemy of what happens when you hand the work over and then it becomes something new in the hands of your audience and the people that are experiencing it and they bring a story to it that you couldn’t even fathom. You’ve done your part, you did the creation part, stewarding your gift, putting it out there to the best of your ability and then they take it and it becomes something more. I’ll never get over that exchange.” – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

FitBit - https://store.google.com/category/trackers

Scott’s Tattoo FAQ - https://www.scottericksonart.com/tattoo-faq

Say Yes: Discover the Surprising Life beyond the Death of a Dream by Scott Erickson - https://amzn.to/3AEVfao

Scott Erickson’s Shows - https://www.scottericksonart.com/shows

The Enneagram Institute Personality Types - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/

Honest Advent: Awakening to the Wonder of God-with-Us Then, Here, and Now by Scott Erickson - https://amzn.to/4fgK6fc

Guest’s Links:

Scott’s website - https://www.scottericksonart.com/

Scott’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/scottthepainter

Scott’s Twitter - https://x.com/scottthepainter

Scott’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/scottthepainter

Scott’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@scottericksonart

Scott’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/scottthepainter/_created/

Connect with Jen!

Today, Jen gets to fulfill a dream of interviewing one of her favorite influences and mentors in the food world. The iconic six-time James Beard award-winning Ruth Reichl sits down with Jen to discuss her extensive impact on food culture spanning the last several decades. They hit on everything from the alarming state of the modern food industrial complex, how we source our food and the impacts it poses to our health (as well as the hope they see for our future), to what it has been like to document the evolution of food across the changing media landscape of print media and the internet. Ruth reflects on highlights from her career as a chef, food critic, editor, tv personality, author, novelist and documentarian and discusses the challenges and joys of her various roles in the culinary world, including the emotional toll of her work which has garnered both admiration and criticism.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

The way that we eat, the way we have handed over our health, our environment, our communities to the idea of industrialized food is truly terrifying. – Ruth Reichl

The more you say no, the more people want you. – Ruth Reichl

Almost no one likes what is written about them. No matter how flattering a portrait may be, people don’t like it. So when it’s really not flattering, people don’t like it. – Ruth Reichl

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Food and Country Film - https://www.foodandcountryfilm.com/

Michael Pollan - https://amzn.to/4g1bkGV

Barbara Kingsolver - https://amzn.to/3D0fv7f

White Oak Pastures - https://whiteoakpastures.com/

Gourmet Magazine - https://bit.ly/3D2LN1B

Tender at the Bone: Growing Up at the Table by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/3OEwjmS

Condé Nast - https://www.cntraveler.com/contributor/ruth-reichl

New York Times - https://www.nytimes.com/by/ruth-reichl

Garlic and Sapphires: The Secret Life of a Critic in Disguise by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/4ifrUo9

The Paris Novel by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/3BfyUk4

Save Me the Plums: My Gourmet Memoir by Ruth Reichl - https://amzn.to/49vwfiX

Guest’s Links:

Ruth’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ruth.reichl/

Ruth’s Twitter - https://x.com/ruthreichl

Ruth’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/@ruthreichlbooks

Ruth’s Substack - https://ruthreichl.substack.com/

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented

In this conversation, recorded the morning after the presidential election, comedy phenom Tig Notaro joins Jen and Amy (donned head to toe in black in mourning) to unpack the events of the day and to help them find their happy place in the world again, which she accomplishes with tactical success. By the end of the show, they’ve laughed so hard, they’ve forgotten most of their cares. 

In this episode, Tig regales us with her journey as an Emmy and Grammy-nominated comedian, the influence of her free-spirited mother, and how her family dynamics (and a few hilarious stories from her boys) have shaped her comedy. She also reflects on her journey of authenticity, what it means to be an icon in the LGBTQ+ community, and the significance of being true to oneself. 

In Rant or Rave, Jen and Amy muse about whether or not they have the chops to make it in stand-up, and we learn that Amy definitely has a deep well of material at her disposal. Speaking of which, be sure to listen for Tig’s story about the weirdest gig she’s ever performed!

***

Thought-provoking Quotes: 

One of the things my mother told me growing up was to tell everyone to go to hell if they had a problem with me. And I certainly do not walk around telling everyone to go to hell but I think there’s this thing in me, whether you know I was told that or not, I think people can tell that I don’t have a desperation and I’m not going to do backflips for anybody. – Tig Notaro

I didn’t bust out of the closet. I went through my own process of figuring things out. I wasn’t born knowing I was gay. When I did come out, it was just an authentic feeling and decision of, this is who I am. – Tig Notaro

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Annette Benning - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000906/

John Travolta - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000237

Cher - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000333

Olivia Coleman - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1469236/

Broadchurch - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2249364/

Wicked Little Letters - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20234774/

Taika Waititi - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0169806/

Ryan Reynolds - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005351

Denzel Washington - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000243

Julia Roberts - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000210

Notting Hill - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125439

Jason Bateman - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000867

Smartless Docuseries - https://play.max.com/show/f8c800e3-7639-4883-a0f1-8eb5adbb5ced

I’m Just a Person by Tig Notaro - https://amzn.to/3ZjlfQY

Tig: A Netflix Documentary - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3986532/

One Mississippi TV series - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4947608/

Under a Rock with Tig Notaro - https://www.amazon.com/Under-Rock-Tig-Notaro/dp/B07SJZ4TKM

Kevin Nealon - https://www.instagram.com/kevinnealon/

...

The Office co-stars and best friends, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey, are doing the ultimate Office-lovers podcast for you. Each week Jenna and Angela will dive deeper into The Office giving you access to even more behind the scene details, interviews and lots of stories that only two best friends who were there, can tell you.

This week we welcome back a treasured friend of this show, renowned design guru and the heartbeat of the Fab Five, Bobby Berk!  It’s been four years since we last talked to Bobby so we have a lot of ground to cover in this episode. 

Bobby tells us about the designers like Michael Graves and Isaac Mizrahi who he drew inspiration from early in his career. He tells stories about his humble beginnings with retail gigs at stores like Bed Bath & Beyond and Restoration Hardware – maybe part of what makes him so relatable? – and how his career as a designer blossomed from there.

And with the holidays upon us, we also take the opportunity to ask Bobby about how he celebrates (or survives) the holidays. He offers some great insights on instituting some personal boundaries to maintain sanity that are not too late to put into rotation this year.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“At my grandparents' A-frame cabin in Colorado, every square inch was red, and I mean R-E-D shag carpet and it looked like a whole gaggle of muppets laying on the ground….and I think I liked it. I remember laying on the ground threading my fingers through the carpet.” – Jen Hatmaker

“I loved going to my friends houses where it was just cool and calm and nothing to look at. But honestly that’s not what I’m drawn to anyway. My house looks like a rainbow exploded. I have a kelly green velvet couch, a gallery wall that has every single color. I’ve got some bat shit wallpaper going on. I’ve decorated it like I’ve never seen the color gray.” – Amy Hardin

“I’m drawn to spaces that have life in them, I like color – I like it when a room is even outrageous. Whether or not I would exactly do that thing, I think, ‘I like where your head is at’”. – Jen Hatmaker

“You’re the CEO of your own instincts and design and if you love it, it’s going to work.” – Bobby Berk

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Queer Eye for the Straight Guy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_Eye_(2003_TV_series)

Queer Eye - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_Eye_(2018_TV_series)

Queer Eye on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/title/80160037

Series 26: Episode 02: Queer Eye’s Bobby Berk on the Fire Inside Us All - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-26/queer-eyes-bobby-berk-and-the-fire-inside-us-all/

BobbyBerk.com - https://bobbyberk.com/

Right at Home: How Good Design Is Good for the Mind: An Interior Design Book by Bobby Berk - https://amzn.to/3A7TjXT

When Jen met Bobby in Mexico - https://www.instagram.com/p/B5HMYkUASvc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== 

Tripointe Homes Style Finder Quiz - https://bobby-berk.tripointehomes.com/style-finder/

Michael Graves - https://michaelgraves.com/

Michael Graves Target  Collaboration - https://michaelgraves.com/product/target-products/

Isaac Mizrahi Target Collaboration - https://www.target.com/b/isaac-mizrahi/-/N-s73qo

Jen’ ...

We’re going deep into the archives to pull out a special conversation for this week’s bonus episode with our most beloved friend, Grammy Award-winning singer/songwriter, Amy Grant. The last time Jen and Amy sat down together, it was on the heels of an exhausting,arduous time in our county. Back then, Amy delivered some profound words of wisdom in the peaceful, soothing way that only she can. And we felt her words would be a welcome balm to soothe our weary souls today so we’ve brought it back for you to enjoy as a bonus episode!

In addition to some very timely words of wisdom from Amy, this episode covers:

• Navigating life's difficulties while maintaining a positive outlook — Amy shares a touching story about the final lesson she’s learned from her parents
• Amy discusses her journey of healing from unexpected open heart surgery and she and Jen talk about learning to respect their bodies and live more in balance
• The importance of community and support systems, especially when enduring hard circumstances
• The complexities of cancel culture which has come for Amy on more than one occasion in her career and personal life
• The evolution of Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) and the “The Queen of Christian Pop’s” impact on music that transcends genres and generations

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Everybody brings different things to the table. Rapid-fire conversation or investigative or deep conversations might not be their comfort zone but there are other things that are. – Amy Grant

“I have my hands on my own wheel. I can’t steer anybody else’s opinions. I can’t steer anybody else’s choices. But I’ve got to own mine.” – Amy Grant

“When I was younger, I thought if I don’t say yes to everything, it’ll all stop. It’ll all dry up. It won’t keep coming. It’s my yeses that keep the energy moving forward. But I found out that’s not true at all. That was a fake story. It was just the scarcity mindset.” – Jen Hatmaker

“Ask different questions. The next step, the next opportunity, the next enlightenment, the next everything for all of us is within reach. It always has been.” – Amy Grant

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Jen at the Amy Grant concert in Austin 2023 - https://www.instagram.com/p/CxvoBcbujuB/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

In this special episode, Jen and Amy get a visit from a Hollywood darling we’ve loved in countless films and shows like The Descendants, Archer, 27 Dresses, Arrested Development and 13 Going on 30 to talk about her newest project based on the beloved children’s book, The Best Christmas Pageant Ever! Actress Judy Greer talks about what it’s like to collaborate on such a treasured holiday story that she somehow missed out on as a kid but was lucky enough to discover when she was cast for the role. She sets the scene for what it was like to film the movie last fall in wintry Winnipeg with a cast full of kids on set and also takes a moment to share some highlights from earlier in her career.

Also in this episode: 

• Amy and Jen talk about their mixed feelings toward pageants and public performances. As you might guess, one of them loves them, one hates them.
• In our GenXcellence segment, Jen and Amy recount their first movie-without-parents experiences.
• And we Rant or Rave about decorating the house at Christmastime.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes: 

“I directed so many programs with my sisters and my girl cousins, and my parents were very, very mediocre audience members. If you’re going to have four kids, guess what you get to do? You’re going to sit on the brown corduroy couch and watch our shitty programs. That’s part of the deal. We practiced for six hours. I had choreography. At one point, I gave Lindsay an umbrella that she had to open at just the right lyric in the song and the bitch could not do it and it was so upsetting.” – Jen Hatmaker 

“I think what’s so beautiful about this story is that it’s about unity, and compassion, and empathy. And it’s about being welcoming.” – Judy Greer

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

48 Hours movie (1982) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083511/

Film Rating Guide - https://www.motionpictures.org/film-ratings/

Top Gun movie (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092099/

The Shining movie (1980) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081505/

Alamo Drafthouse Cinema - https://drafthouse.com/austin

37th Street Austin Light Display - https://www.instagram.com/37thstreetlights/

Arrested Development - https://www.netflix.com/title/70140358

13 Going on 30 movie (2004) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337563/

The Descendants movie (2011) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1033575/

I Don’t Know What You Know Me From: Confessions of a Co-Star by Judy Greer - https://amzn.to/4hiDC0y

The Best Christmas Pageant Ever: A Christmas Holiday Book for Kids by Barbara Robinson - https://amzn.to/3YzrNfh

The Best Christmas Pageant Ever movie (2024) - https://bestchristmaspageantever.movie/

Archer - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1486217/

Citizen Ruth movie (1996) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115906/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Dallas Jenkins - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0420817/?ref_=tt_ov_ ...

Let’s be honest: there are seasons in life when things feel heavy and hard and the thought of breaking through the noise and negativity seems impossible. But with a little retooling of perspective, you can shift the conversation to one that is more productive and more hope-filled. In this episode, Timothy Shriver discusses his lifelong commitment to promoting dignity and unity through his work with the Special Olympics and the Dignity Index. He shares practical steps (and real-life examples gleaned from guests of his brand new Need A Lift? podcast) to demonstrate how you can turn a difficult conversation into an opportunity to form a connection.

And if that’s not enough, Jen and Amy dig into some of their biggest fears – the ones they want to Bless and Release. 

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I was being invited into a world in which the pursuit of making the world better, more just, more hopeful was a joyful pursuit. It wasn’t a burden. It wasn’t a responsibility of commitment you had to keep.” – Tim Shriver

"We need people willing to take a chance – on each other, on trying again, on their communities." – Tim Shriver

“Without losing my passion, without losing my commitment to the issues, I can still treat people with dignity.” – Tim Shriver

"Contempt for each other is the problem and treating each other with dignity is the solution." – Tim Shriver

“We can’t get legislation in most states or at the Federal level that embodies either of those majority opinions [border security and gun control] because the contempt on the extremes is so dominating the conversation that our political leaders find it in their best interest not to solve the problem or too scary to try.” – Tim Shriver

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Special Olympics - https://www.specialolympics.org/

Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most by Tim Shriver - https://amzn.to/3NXAie9

The Dignity Index - https://www.dignity.us/

Tim’s Need A Lift Podcast - https://www.timothyshriver.com/projects/need-a-lift

How Michael and Nicole Phelps Unlearned the Fear of Losing - https://apple.co/3NGKiYI

A Special Olympics Gold Medalist on Authenticity and Play: Loretta Claiborne - https://apple.co/4hhBbLF

Simon Sinek Believes that Idealism Belongs In the Workplace - https://apple.co/4dXmjj0

Taking Off Our Masks through Confession with Fr. Mike Schmitz - https://apple.co/48gAlLl

Guest’s Links:

Tim’s website - https://www.timothyshriver.com/

Tim’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/timothyshriver

Tim’s Twitter - https://x.com/TimShriver

Tim’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/timshriver/

Tim’s Need A Lift Podcast - https://www.timothyshriver.com/projects/need-a-lift

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagra ...

Jen and Amy are beyond thrilled to welcome none other than late-night legend Stephen Colbert and his amazing wife, Evie McGee Colbert, to the show! They’re dishing about their brand-new cookbook, Does This Taste Funny?—a project born right in the middle of pandemic life at home. Stephen and Evie share the hilarious backstory of how this all came together, dive into their kitchen quirks (spoiler: they don’t always see eye-to-eye in the kitchen), and their mutual love for Gullah cuisine from the heart of South Carolina’s Lowcountry. From the joy of cooking together to a classic metal spoon disaster, it’s the perfect blend of laughter, food, and a little bit of chaos.

On today’s show: 

• Jen and Amy discuss their mixed feelings about high school reunions
• Jen offers some sage guidance to young girls about how not to accessorize in their senior photos
• Amy shows off in front of the Colberts with her plate of (gluten-free) Patti McGee’s Cheese Biscuits from their cookbook
• The group tries to unpack what made our children’s generation so sensitive about food expiration dates 
• Stephen shares the story about how he got radicalized by fancy butter 

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Anytime somebody brings me my own cookbook – which is only a few years old at this point – and it’s dirty, filthy, greasy, I am thrilled. It’s the best compliment.” – Jen Hatmaker

“My mom grew up in the heyday of processed foods. She didn’t have a lot of recipes that didn’t come from the back of a bottle of chili sauce or a packet of dried soup mix. So that’s where I started my culinary journey.” – Stephen Colbert

“Those people who have cooking shows are amazing. Shout out to anyone who has to cook and talk in front of a camera.” – Evie Colbert

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Flavors: The Junior League of San Antonio (1978) - https://www.abebooks.com/9780961041601/Flavors-Junior-League-San-Antonio-0961041609/plp

The Pioneer Woman Cooks: Recipes from an Accidental Country Girl by Ree Drummond (2009) - https://amzn.to/3Ue0eWd

The Colbert Report - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-colbert-report/umc.cmc.3k1kkmfgd34hfnk8mc6p1uj01

"I Hope This Grief Stays With Me" - Andrew Garfield Fights Back Tears And Celebrates His Mom - YouTube - https://youtu.be/_u_TswLQ4ws?si=Ah2cbnW3-5AiyAlF

The Daily Show - https://www.cc.com/fan-hub/the-daily-show

The Late Show with Stephen Colbert - https://www.cbs.com/shows/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert/

After Midnight - https://www.cbs.com/shows/after-midnight/

Montclair Film - https://montclairfilm.org/

Does This Taste Funny?: Recipes Our Family Loves - https://amzn.to/3YoJeix

Feed These People: Slam-Dunk Recipes for Your Crew by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3BNozvM

Candied Hot Peppers from Tiny Pizza Kitchen in Brooklyn - https://w ...

We Will Not Be Aging Quietly: Claiming Your Most Powerful Season with Katie Fogarty

Description:

What if the years everyone warned you about turned out to be the ones you'd been waiting for?

Today, Jen and Amy sit down with Katie Fogarty—a former journalist, career coach, and the voice behind one of the most vibrant midlife podcasts in the country, called A Certain Age—for an honest, energizing hour about what it really means to thrive in this season.

Katie launched A Certain Age thirty-five days before her 51st birthday with one mission: blow up the narrative that women become less relevant as they get older. Five years and 230-plus episodes later, she's interviewed hundreds of midlife women—and she has thoughts. Big ones.

They dig into the myths about midlife that refuse to die, why Katie calls this season an "accelerant" rather than an obstacle, what it looks like when women stop waiting for permission and start claiming their lives—and what she's hearing that gives her real hope for the women coming behind us.

If you've ever felt like midlife was quietly trying to make you smaller—this episode is your push back.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “Sometimes the word ‘reinventing’ implies we're completely changing our lives and getting rid of everything that came before. It's more about reimagining, because we're drawing on all of our expertise to apply it in new ways, big and small.” – Katie Fogarty

• “Midlife is that moment where you say, let me get going. The kids are grown, the career maybe is established, life is sort of on track, moving forward, and we have this moment with space in our brain, maybe on our calendar, to actually hit go on whatever it is we've been thinking about for so long.” – Katie Fogarty

• “If you are feeling disconnected from relationships, or like you're not being supported, find people that you are visible to. There are communities of people out there who care about what you care about, who want to see you, who will see you.” – Katie Fogarty

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Jen’s first colonoscopy - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DWz8nTvgo6p/

• Sophie Grégoire Trudeau on Life, Emotional Regulation and Midlife Reinventions - https://www.acertainagepod.com/shows/sophie-grgoire-trudeau-on-life-emotional-regulation-and-midlife-reinventions

• Tamsen Fadal - https://www.tamsenfadal.com/

• Grown Woman Talk: Your Guide to Getting and Staying Healthy by Dr. Sharon Malone - https://amzn.to/4t14kQY

• The New Perimenopause: What’s Actually Happening to Your Body with Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-new-perimenopause-whats-actually-happening-to-your-body-with-dr-mary-claire-haver/

• When Life Happens: The Mindset Shift You Need to Manage Stress, Build Confidence, and Break Free by Dr. Rachel Goldman - https://amzn.to/4mnvZsY

• Midlife Private Parts: Revealing Essays That Will Change the Way You Think About Age - https://www.midlifeprivatepa ...

Friends, today’s episode is a powerhouse! We’ve got Sharon McMahon, aka “America’s Government Teacher,” bringing some serious wisdom from her new book, "The Small and the Mighty." Even the drafters of the Constitution worried about chaos, but they hoped for better things—and Sharon’s here to show us how twelve lesser-known heroes in American history made a huge impact on democracy. She’s drawing parallels to how we can still shape our future today, no matter how small we feel. Get ready to be inspired, y’all! Let’s dive in!

In this hope-filled chat:

• Jen and Amy muse around which historical figures they would most like to meet and we get a glimpse of their preferred election night routines
• Sharon highlights the arc of her career from an award-winning yarn influencer known as the Yarnista, to a photographer, to “America’s Government Teacher”
• We discuss the need for reliable sources of factual information in a world filled to the brim with fake news and disinformation
• Sharon explains why we shouldn’t sit out during state and local elections
• We talk about a variety of ways to engage in democracy beyond just voting
• And Sharon fields questions from members of our audience.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“We’re all tired, we’re exhausted from the endless partisanship and the fake news and the disinformation and vitriol.” – Jen Hatmaker

“I started noticing that there were a lot of people that were just really confidently wrong on the internet, saying things like ‘the electoral college is a university you can graduate from’.”– Sharon McMahon

“There’s a big list of people, especially women, who never, ever get the credit when it comes to the civil rights movement – it’s the attorneys, it's the Thurgood Marshalls, it’s the Freddie Grays,  it’s the Martin Luther Kings.,and, of course, what they did is incredibly important but… there are a lot of women with whom this hot air balloon does not get off the ground. There is no leaving the ground without the significant contributions of women.” – Sharon McMahon

“We have to stop viewing this as a zero sum game in which our enemies must be defeated or destroyed. That’s an onramp to dictatorship.” – Sharon McMahon

“There are many ways to be involved in democracy. It’s not just voting and running for office. There’s not one prescription for how to be involved. Do things you are good at and contribute in your own way. We can’t all be parade goers.” – Sharon McMahon

“We tend to put all of our eggs in this basket of who will win the presidential election but who gets elected in your state matters so much. The things that really affect your daily life are defined at the state and local level.” – Sharon McMahon

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Henry Fite House of Baltimore - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Fite_House

The Angry Trout Cafe, Grand Mariais, MN - https://www.angrytroutcafe.com/

The Small and the Mighty: Twelve Unsung Americans Who Changed the Course of History, from the Founding to the Civil Rights Movement by Sharon McMahon - https://amzn.to/3NsoqjI

Guest’s Links:

Sharon’s website - https://sharonmcmahon.com/

Sharon’s Newsletter, The Preamble - https://thepreamble.com/

Sharon’s Governer ...

In this engaging conversation, actress, activist, and all-around beautiful human, Yvette Nicole Brown, gives us a lesson on the fundamental importance of joy, the blessings of caregiving, and the significance of community support. Through an exploration of Yvettes’ career, first in the music business, and now in the entertainment industry, she and Jen and Amy discuss the many challenges that face black women today while also talking about one of black women’s greatest superpowers – the sisterhood that exists among them. They lean into how white women can learn to harness that power in their relationships, too, and the things that can be done to support their sisters of color right now. Yvette also reflects on her personal life as a devoted caregiver, and dishes for a moment about the beauty of finding love in your late 50s.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I don’t know as a kid that I ever thought that I would be a star. I always felt that I would be impactful in people's lives in some way because of the way that I love people.” – Yvette Nicole Brown

“I am still pinching myself. I’m Forrest Gump in the flesh – in real life – because I just say yes to things that feel right and God just takes me to the next opportunity to do the same.” – Yvette Nicole Brown

“That’s why black women are always so close with each other because whenever you see a ‘sista’, you know her story, without knowing her story. That’s why we call each other ‘sista’, because we know what she’s been through. Same thing with black men. ‘Brotha’. ‘Sista’. We know what the other person has been through and we stand with each other and support each other. But here’s the thing, we stand with and support everybody else too. And that’s why we say ‘vote like black women, think like black women’. That’s not hubris. That’s not arrogance. That’s heart. That’s soul.” – Yvette Nicole Brown

“When it comes to anything that comes up in the news, culture, current events, whatever’s going on, if I feel even a modicum of uncertainty about how to feel about it, I just look to the black women. It’s the correct reading of the room. The response is always for the greater good. It’s what’s good for culture, for people, our neighbors, progress, equality.” – Jen Hatmaker

“Instead of me showing you my pain, I’m going to use my joy as my strength and I’m going to dance and laugh through this thing.” – Yvette Nicole Brown

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/3U6nMfN

Yvette’s acting and producing credits - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1304328/

Kamala Harris for President - https://kamalaharris.com/

How Black Women Organizers Broke Zoom to Raise $1.5 Million - Fortune.com 

K-Pops by Anderson .Paak at Toronto International Film Festival - https://tiff.net/events/k-pops

Frasier - https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/frasier-2023/

Among Us - https://www.innersloth.com/voice-cast-for-the-among-us-animated-series-round-1/

Donors Choose - https://www.donorschoose.org/

Th ...

This week Jen and Amy sit down with the charismatic and engaging Stanley Tucci, to discuss his new book, 'What I Ate in One Year', that explores the deep connections we can find amongst the food we eat, the memories we make, and the emotions we feel and how our cultural practices around food can provide fuel for us, not just in times of celebration, but can also provide us comfort in times of grief. Stanley reflects on how food plays a role in both joyous and difficult moments, emphasizing the importance of sharing meals with loved ones, hoping that readers will find comfort and connection through his work, especially in a time when we are all experiencing more loneliness and disconnection.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

"You're such a Renaissance man." – Jen Hatmaker

"I like it so much more when we all eat together." – Stanley Tucci

"Food is just a part of life, which means it's a part of death too." – Stanley Tucci

“When somebody brings me bread, that’s my person. Let’s get married.” – Jen Hatmaker

“Even if you’re in a really shitty place, even if the food is terrible, but you’re eating with people that you love, it’ll be a memorable meal.” – Stanley Tucci

“I don’t want to eat a well done burger. I’d rather eat an extra side of fries.” – Jen Hatmaker

“Eating outdoors makes things taste better. Why is that? I don’t know but the place is crucial…in a weird way. It can change the taste of things.” – Stanley Tucci

“We think that in the moment we’re going to remember something forever but we don't. It just slips away. Even just writing your story down for you has meaning.” – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Stanley Tucci’s new book 'What I Ate in One Year' - https://amzn.to/484rxb2

Big Night (1996) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115678/

CNN Show: Searching for Italy - https://www.cnn.com/shows/stanley-tucci-searching-for-italy

Stanley Tucci makes a Negroni for his wife, Felicity - https://bit.ly/4h2L9QW

The Devil Wears Prada (2006) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458352/

Stanley Tucci’s film bio - https://imdb.to/3YgfeW2

Stanley Tucci’s theater bio - https://playbill.com/person/stanley-tucci-vault-0000019856

Taste: My Life Through Food by Stanley Tucci - https://amzn.to/4f08P6Y

Guest’s Links:

Stanley’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/StanleyTucci

Stanley’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/stanleytucci/

Stanley’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@stanley.tucci

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/