Evidence-Based Management – Details, episodes & analysis

People working in evidence-based management can sometimes feel like they are swimming against the tide. But they are part of something much larger.

In this episode we hear from science journalist Helen Pearson about her new book Beyond Belief: How Evidence Shows What Really Works.

The conversation steps back from evidence-based management to look at the much wider evidence movement that has been unfolding across disciplines over the past few decades. From medicine and social policy to policing, conservation and business, researchers and practitioners have been grappling with the same question: how do we know what really works?

Helen traces the origins of the modern evidence movement, beginning with the pioneers of evidence-based medicine in the late twentieth century, and explains how ideas such as randomized trials and systematic reviews spread across many other fields.

The discussion explores:

• The origins of evidence-based medicine and the role of pioneers like Iain Chalmers and David Sackett
• How ideas from medicine influenced other domains including policy, policing and management
• Why early advocates of evidence often worked in isolation across different disciplines
• Why evidence-based management faces particular challenges in bridging research and practice
• The current “crisis of evidence” and the forces shaping trust in science today
• Why teaching evidence literacy and critical thinking may be one of the most powerful tools for the future

Helen also shares practical advice for anyone wanting to think more critically about claims and evidence in everyday life.

For students and teachers of evidence-based management, the episode offers a reminder that they are part of a much broader international movement seeking to improve decisions through better use of evidence.

Beyond Belief: How Evidence Shows What Really Works will be published in April 2026.

Host: 

Karen Plum

Guest: 

Helen Pearson, Senior Editor, Nature, Honorary Professor of Practice, UCL Department of Science and Technology Studies 

Click here for more details about Helen's book.

Contact:

Eric Barends, Managing Director of the Center for Evidence-Based Management

Working with evidence-based management can be uncomfortable. It asks people to sit with uncertainty rather than reach for certainty — something many of us are rewarded for in organisational life.

This conversation explores what that discomfort looks like in practice, and how uncertainty shows up when people engage seriously with evidence — whether they are managers making decisions, students learning to apply evidence, or educators supporting that learning. The discussion ranges across research, teaching, and organisational decision-making, touching on credibility, confidence, risk, and the realities of working with evidence in complex, high-stakes environments.

Rather than offering tools or prescriptions, the episode stays with the experience of uncertainty itself — including where it becomes personally or professionally risky, and where it can open up better questions, more careful judgement, and new possibilities when people are willing to stay with it.

This is not a “how-to” episode. It’s an opportunity to listen in as experienced educators and practitioners think together about uncertainty, without rushing to certainty.

Host:
Karen Plum

Guests:

• Eric Barends - Managing Director, Center of Evidence-Based Management
• Denise Rousseau, H J Heinz University Professor, Carnegie Mellon University, Pennsylvania, USA
• Preston Davis, Clinical Assistant Professor of Management, Coles College, Kennesaw  State University, Atlanta,  Georgia, USA

Contact:

 Eric Barends, Managing Director of the Center for Evidence-Based Management

This episode accompanies Module 9 of the course, which is about the appraisal of the data, information and evidence gathered within the organisation. The acquisition of this evidence is covered in Module 8 and its corresponding podcast episode.

In this episode we continue to consider some of the wider aspects associated with the use of organisational data. Why we can’t take it’s quality for granted; how it can be highly misleading if we don’t know where it comes from and how it’s created, and how people can continue using it for years in ignorance of its shortcomings.

The excitement around Big Data and data analytics is also discussed, to see whether these are all they are cracked up to be!  And we look at the complexity associated with key performance indicators (KPIs) which again can lock us into repetitive behaviour, without questioning their value.

Once again, the importance of taking decisions based on multiple sources of evidence is reinforced. 

Link to the video mentioned by Jeroen Stouten

Host: Karen Plum

Guests:

• Eric Barends, Managing Director, Center for Evidence-Based Management 
• Martin Walker, Director of Banking & Finance at Center for Evidence-Based Management
• Jeroen Stouten, Professor of Organisational Psychology, KU Leuven University
• Ravishanker Jonnalagadda, Senior Expert Data Science, People  Analytics , Novartis Healthcare 

Find out more about the course here:   https://cebma.org/resources-and-tools/course-modules/ 

This episode accompanies Module 8 of the course, which is about the data, information and evidence gathered within the organisation to aid our multi-source evidenced-based decision making. The appraisal of this evidence is covered in Module 9 and its corresponding podcast episode.

In this episode we consider some of the things we need to think about before either using existing organisational data or collecting data specifically geared to address our question or area of interest. As with other sources of evidence, there are a myriad of obstacles and roadblocks to be aware of in our search for organisational data and information to inform our decision making. 

There is a tendency for people to place organisational evidence in high regard, but as we will see, this faith can often be misplaced – not for nefarious reasons, but in some cases simply due to a lack of understanding when designing systems, or using data that has been churned out for years without anyone just asking where the data comes from.

As ever, we keep asking questions!

Host: Karen Plum

Guests:

• Eric Barends, Managing Director, Center for Evidence-Based Management 
• Martin Walker, Director of Banking & Finance at Center for Evidence-Based Management
• Jeroen Stouten, Professor of Organisational Psychology, KU Leuven University

 Article by Jeffrey Pfeffer & Robert Sutton 

Find out more about the course here:   https://cebma.org/resources-and-tools/course-modules/ 

This episode accompanies Module 7 of the course, which is about judging the quality of the evidence from the scientific literature that we’ve identified during our earlier searching. This module aligns to chapter 7 of the Evidence-Based Management book.

Modules 5, 6 and 7 all focus on the scientific literature, so when you listen to the corresponding podcast episodes, the picture will hopefully be complete. 

In this episode we look at the process of learning how to appraise the studies, and what their findings mean in the context of the real world that we are faced with. If something is statistically significant and there is a large effect size measured by the study, does that mean that the finding is practically relevant for our organisation? 

Evidence from the scientific literature is undoubtedly important, but shouldn’t be emphasised more than other sources of evidence and it’s good to be reminded that it’s only when these come together than we can really make an evidence-based decision.

Host: Karen Plum

Guests:

• Eric Barends, Managing Director, Center for Evidence-Based Management 
• Denise Rousseau, H J Heinz University Professor, Carnegie Mellon University
• Rob Briner, Professor of Organizational Psychology, Queen Mary University of London
• Lisa J Griffiths, CEO, OzChild National Support Office

Find out more about the course here.

This episode accompanies Module 6 of the course, which is an introduction to the scientific literature that can be used as part of our evidence-based management decision making. This module aligns to chapter 5 of the Evidence-Based Management book.

Modules 5, 6 and 7 all focus on the scientific literature, so when you listen to their corresponding podcast episodes, the picture will hopefully become more complete. 

In this episode we look at different aspects of the scientific world – what motivates academics to study the topics they research; the pros and cons of lab and field studies; and how to approach academic studies to get the most from them (don’t try to read them cover to cover!). We also discuss the importance of statistical significance and effect sizes in research and their practical relevance in the real world.

Host: Karen Plum

Guests:

• Eric Barends, Managing Director, Center for Evidence-Based Management 
• Denise Rousseau, H J Heinz University Professor, Carnegie Mellon University
• Rob Briner, Professor of Organizational Psychology, Queen Mary University of London

Find out more about the course here.

This episode accompanies Module 4 of the course, which is all about assessing the quality and reliability of the evidence from practitioners – people who have experience with the problem we are tackling, or the solutions we are considering. 

Modules 4 and 3 are difficult to separate fully, so please refer to episode 3 of the podcast for the rest of the discussion about practitioners. In this episode we discuss the impact of the most important biases and talk about how to be alert to our own biases and those of others. 

We consider the role of the evidence based practitioner and the challenges of getting a clear understanding of problems and solutions from practitioners who may not always be as clear or succinct as we might wish. This is where careful listening and questioning are absolutely critical, together with challenging assumptions - both our own and other people's. 

Finally we discuss the 3 criteria used to assess the reliability and trustworthiness of practitioners and experts, including consultants that seek to identify themselves as experts with particular problems and solutions. 

Host: Karen Plum

Guests

• Eric Barends, Managing Director, Center for Evidence-Based Management 
• Rob Briner, Professor of Organizational Psychology, Queen Mary University of London
• Dr Christina Rader, Associate Professor with Tenure, Department of Economics and Business at Colorado College 

Find out more about the course here:   https://cebma.org/resources-and-tools/course-modules/

This episode accompanies Module 3 of the course, which is all about acquiring evidence from practitioners – people who have experience with the problem we are tackling, or the solutions we are considering. 

Modules 3 and 4 are somewhat intertwined, so the rest of the discussion about practitioner evidence will be in Episode 4. In this episode we consider the choice of practitioners (people with expertise, not just opinions) and how we gather information from them. Asking questions (the focus of Module/episode 2 is critical here, and emphasis is again put on not jumping to solutions, even though it’s so tempting!

There is also discussion about the use of questionnaires – including some guidance about where to start (at the end) and how to get the best results - keeping the questions simple, testing understanding of the questions before launch and ensuring you know exactly how you’re going to use the data. 

Host: Karen Plum

Guests

• Eric Barends, Managing Director, Center for Evidence Based Management 
• Denise Rousseau, H J Heinz University Professor, Carnegie Mellon University 
• Dr Christina Rader, Associate Professor with Tenure, Department of Economics and Business at Colorado College 
• Dr Lisa J Griffiths, CEO, OzChild National Support Office

Find out more about the course here:   https://cebma.org/resources-and-tools/course-modules/

This episode accompanies Module 2 of the course, which is all about asking questions – critical questions to understand what the problem is that we are trying to solve. This is because so often in organisations we leap to solutions without being clear what the problem is.

This approach can be driven by a desire to do “stuff”, to get things done and to feel that we are making progress. But how many times is a solution delivered and it doesn’t seem to do the trick? Maybe that’s because not enough time was taken to understand the nature of the problem before jumping to solutions.

So we need to ask questions – lots of them. Asking them in the right way, of the right people, at the right time is vital.

By being constructive in our questioning, we can make a contribution to the decision making process even if we are not experienced, not powerful or not senior in the organisation. Sometimes the inexperienced have a better perspective because they don’t make so many assumptions and will be more easily forgiven for asking the "daft questions". 

In other words “question everything”!

Host: Karen Plum

Guests:

• Eric Barends, Managing Director, Centre for Evidence Based Management (CEBMa) 
• Denise Rousseau, H J Heinz University Professor, Carnegie Mellon University 
• Dr Lisa J Griffiths, CEO, OzChild National Support Office

Find out more about the course here:   https://cebma.org/resources-and-tools/course-modules/

This episode accompanies Module 1 of the course which covers the basic principles of evidence-based management and gives an overview of the steps involved in taking this approach. 

Everyone uses evidence when making decisions, right? But only one source, or many? And are those sources assessed for their reliability and trustworthiness? Are we actively trying to identify the biases that so often lead us down the wrong path?

There is a fundamental problem with how many decisions are currently made in organisations so the first important realisation is examine current practice and to identify the problems of this approach. And then to appreciate that many current sources of evidence (i.e. colleagues, experts, gurus and academics) might not be the best sources of reliable evidence.

And really, who has time to take an evidence-based approach, when organisations just want to get on with "stuff"

This is tricky territory which needs careful navigation as our guests discuss.


Host: Karen Plum

Guests:

• Eric Barends, Managing Director, Center for Evidence Based Management (CEBMa) 
• Denise Rousseau, H J Heinz University Professor, Carnegie Mellon University 
• Rob Briner, Professor of Organizational Psychology at Queen Mary University of London 

Find out more about the course here:   https://cebma.org/resources-and-tools/course-modules/