Show Notes
In this conversation, Anna Harvey discusses her integration of psychoanalysis and ecology in her work as a senior lecturer in social work. She emphasizes the importance of understanding child protection within a broader sociopolitical context and advocates for a public health approach to social work. Anna explores how ecological perspectives can inform systemic thinking and the interconnectedness of individuals within their environments. The discussion highlights the need to decenter the individual and recognize the symbiotic relationships that exist in both nature and society. In this conversation, Simon and Anna explore the significance of language in psychoanalysis, the transformative practice of composting as a metaphor for personal growth, and the interconnectedness of all living beings. They discuss the importance of symbiosis in nature, the need to re-enchant our lives with spirituality, and the reflections on what it means to live a good life in a society that often prioritizes superficial experiences over deep connections.

Reflections
The internal psychological world is shaped by external environmental factors.
Ecology provides a lens to understand systemic interconnections.
Diversity in ecosystems creates strength and resilience.
Symbiosis is a fundamental aspect of life and ecology.
Understanding our interconnectedness can reshape our approach to social issues. 
Composting encourages a physical and spiritual engagement with our thoughts.
We are small parts of a vast interconnected universe.
Modern life often alienates us from our true selves.
Experiences should be deep and meaningful, not superficial.
We must engage with diverse perspectives to grow.
Living a good life involves recognizing our place in the world.

Keywords
ecology, psychoanalysis,social work, systemic thinking, ecological crisis, psychosocial approach, permaculture, interconnectedness, public health, psychoanalysis, composting, interconnectedness, symbiosis, ecology, spirituality, good life, education, nature, holistic thinking

Bio
Anna Harvey is a senior lecturer at the Tavistock and Portman Trust, teaching on the professional doctorate in social work. With 27 years of experience in child protection and social care, she leads modules on reflexivity, institutional observation, and psychosocial interventions, integrating psychoanalytic and ecological perspectives. Her teaching emphasizes self-awareness, therapeutic relationships, and systemic thinking. She supervises doctoral students, focusing on marginalised voices in social work. As a consultant, she trains professionals in reflective supervision. Her awareness of the ecological crisis led to organizing a climate psychology conference and co-editing a special journal issue. She incorporates ecological metaphors into social work education, helping students understand complexity, adaptation, and systemic interconnections. Her research explores interconnection and hyper-individualism. Personally, she home-educates her son in ecology, evolution, and natural history, driven by a deep passion for the dynamic interplay between biotic and abiotic systems, shaping both social work and environmental awareness.  

Show Notes:
In this provocative episode, Simon and Lauri dive into the disruptive potential of AI to reshape coaching as we know it. They challenge traditional coaching paradigms, exploring how systemic coaching can integrate with AI to amplify impact. The conversation takes a sharp turn into ethics, questioning the accountability of AI designers and the values underpinning these technologies.

Simon and Lauri explore the triad of AI, human coaches and clients, and how they might work together to co-create powerful organisational outcomes. As they unpack these relationships, they reveal new ways of thinking about human-AI collaboration.

Lauri also brings his reflective lens to the bigger picture: what does it mean to live a good life and build a good society in the age of rapid technological change? This episode inspires a fresh take on adaptability, co-creation, and the need for conscious design in an ever-shifting world.

Key Reflections:

• AI coaching is evolving into a new category of coaching.
• There is a bifurcation in the coaching market between AI and human coaches.
• AI can engage with large populations cost-effectively.
• Human coaching focuses on relational and embodied experiences.
• AI coaching raises philosophical and ethical questions about existence and relationships.
• Systemic coaching can help organizations understand their complexities better.
• AI can facilitate conversations that map out social contexts in organizations.
• The relationship between AI and human coaches can create a virtuous loop.
• A humane narrative for AI is necessary to alleviate fears.
• Living a good life involves understanding one's role in systems and networks.

Keywords:
AI coaching, systemic coaching, ethics, human connection, technology, organizational change, coaching methodologies, coaching relationships, coaching philosophy, coaching and AI

In this fascinating and deeply insightful podcast, Chantal and Brad reflect on the meaning of disappearance. Chantal comes from Mexico where over 100,000 people have disappeared through violence and kidnapping. Human disappearance leaves a hole, an empty space, a void to which our human response is often one of confusion, desperation, pain, loss, anger and even guilt. 

Chantal is an artist working with abstract art, she is self-taught and learnt her craft from her artisanal family and the small Mexican community she grew up in. Chantal and Brad discuss how art, and abstract art in particular can speak to us when language fails us. In this wide-ranging discussion, Brad shares his philosophical insights into violence and disappearance in particular, saying that it is not easy to disappear somebody, and to disappear thousands takes a huge organisational effort, and asks what lies behind this?  

Brad also discusses the Rhonda valley and the disappearance of jobs, of community, of a vibrant culture after the coal mines were shut without anything to replace the jobs; in his most recent book, he describes how these communities have disappeared from the view of wider society in the UK. Disappearance of humans is one thing, another form of disappearance that is finally entering our collective awareness is the disappearance of nature and the loss of biodiversity; how do we make sense of that? 

Each of us has a relationship to disappearance, for some, it is a cultural phenomenon shared by collective people due to drug cartels, war or state terrorism that leads to many being disappeared. For others, it can be a personal story. We hope this podcast stirs your thinking and raises awareness of the meaning of disappearance in our current world.

Bio

Chantal Meza is an abstract painter living and working in the United Kingdom. Her work has been featured in exhibitions, auctions and biennials in prominent Museums and Galleries in Mexico, the United Kingdom, Paraguay and Germany. She has delivered international lectures and workshops at reputable universities such as Harvard University, École Normale Superiéure, Goethe Univeristät, and Goldsmiths University among others, as well as being commissioned publicly and privately. Her work has received the support of grants, public recognition and awards of prominent institutions in the cultural sector. More recently, her first edited volume “State of Disappearance” was published by McGill Queens University Press. 

Professor Brad Evans is a political philosopher, critical theorist, and writer, who specializes in the problem of violence. He is the author of over 20 books and edited volumes, including most recently State of Disappearance (with Chantal Meza, McGill Queens University Press: 2023) & Ecce Humanitas: Beholding the Pain of Humanity (Columbia University Press, 2020). He previously led a dedicated columns/series on violence in both the New York Times and the Los Angeles Review of Books. Brad currently serves as Chair of Political Violence and Aesthetics at the University of Bath, United Kingdom, where is he the founder and director of the Centre for the Study of Violence. His latest book How Black Was My Valley: Poverty and Abandonment in a Post-Industrial Heartland will soon be published by Repeater/Penguin Random House in April 2024.

This podcast reflects on my extensive and diverse work journey, which has been profoundly enriching. Yet, it transcends a mere work biography; it delves into an emotional journey shared. Work occupies a significant portion of our lives, yet we seldom reflect on how our experiences in the workplace impact and shape us.

Every time I recount this story to a live audience, I am surprised by how it evolves. The adage "you can't step into the same river twice" holds. My unconscious seems to guide me as I speak, causing me to omit certain details or emphasize aspects that typically escape my attention. Sometimes, I even find myself becoming emotional at specific points that resonate deeply. This story has a life of its own, continually revealing new insights about my past and present self as I revisit it.

We all have countless stories to tell about ourselves, and I've recounted my own tale, "what authored the author," numerous times, both in writing and in various settings. Interestingly, this particular narrative elicits a strong emotional response in people, a fact that initially caught me off guard. However, I've come to realize that this is precisely the essence of the story. It's not about me; rather, it serves as a mirror, reflecting something back to the reader. What it evokes, stirs, and ignites within you is significant; it prompts the question, "what authored you?"

Bio 

Simon Western is a leading academic and practitioner in coaching and leadership, and the author of several books, reports, and academic papers. He is the host of the Edgy Ideas Podcast and the author behind the Re-enchanting Our Worlds newsletter on Substack. Simon has also developed and led the organisation’s popular courses.  He is the founder of the Eco-Leadership Institute which runs coach training and leadership programmes and is a think-tank to create a more adaptive, ethical and impactful leadership approach for today's precarious-interdependent age.

Sudarshan and Shweta are key leadership figures in Bal Raksha Bharat (also known as Save the Children India). Sudarshan is CEO and Shweta is Head of Governance & Organisation Development.    

In this podcast, they generously share their thoughts and experiences. Their approach is inspiring and enlightening, and it aligns closely to the Eco-Leadership Institute approach. They focus on shifting power from the centre to the edges. Their humanitarian work aims to create capacity, but not only through raising funds from external resources. They see the recipients of the aid they provide as key to creating capacity, as the children and citizens they support are full of potential that they aim to resource. They also look for long term solutions and focus on moving away from crisis reactions,  and reliance on external funding, to build sustainable capacity through civic and state collaboration. They discuss some of their pioneering approaches to humanitarian aid and development and what is striking is the emphasis on deep caring and a holistic approach. Sudarshan and Shweta have to constantly adapt to the fast changing landscape. Key to their work is what we call LEDGE approaches - leadership from the edge, and they focus on bringing people from the edge to make their contribution heard and relevant. Whilst they face many challenges, they see their ecosystems are filled with resources. At the heart of their work is hope, fuelled by a collaborative and generous mindset.   

Sudarshan is a strong advocate of developing a learning culture in the workplace. He shares insights from Bal Raksha Bharat’s most recent annual ‘Knowledge & Learning Exchange Week’ which focussed on ‘failing intelligently’; to remove any blame culture and learn from both the successful and unsuccessful initiatives. India is a place of diversity and challenges for them, but from this podcast you can feel the power of their hope and the energy they have to create a good society.


Bios:

Sudarshan Suchi is the Chief Executive Officer of Bal Raksha Bharat (also known as Save the Children India). As a staunch believer in participatory processes, Sudarshan believes in co-creation and inclusion of all voices within design and action. Passionate about building self-reliance and creating livelihood opportunities, he has himself dabbled in creating and promoting eco-friendly farming practices.
Although he graduated in Philosophy, Law and completed Masters in Participation Power and Social Change, Sudarshan admits that most of his education happened outside the classroom. Over the past three decades, he has held leadership positions with eminent organisations like Reliance Foundation, Reliance Life Sciences, and National Dairy Development Board (NDDB). He has also taught at Institute of Rural Management, Anand (IRMA) and is part of Academic Council of IIHMR’s Rural Management Program.

As CEO of BRB, Sudarshan believes in creating a living organisation that is built on its people and their ability to be vulnerable, embrace shortfalls productively and aim towards improvement. His vision is to build and grow the movement for child rights in India, wherein children have a voice and agency, and participate as active citizens of the country.

Shweta Malhotra is a seasoned professional with 17 years of dedicated service at Bal Raksha, Bharat (Save the Children India), currently serving as the Head of Governance & Organisation Development. In this role, she adeptly oversees the Board, CEO’s office, and plays a pivotal role in enhancing the organization’s adaptability in an ever-changing dynamic environment. A true advocate for fostering a human-centric culture, Shweta thrives on meaningful connections with people.
Her professional narrative includes a fascinating chapter as a freelance fashion designer, where she successfully ran her own label. Beyond her professional pursuits, she finds joy in travelling with her family and relishes the simple pleasures of snuggling up with a good book and a cup of coffee.

Chloe is co-director of Lighthouse Relief a small NGO set up 8 years ago in Greece to respond to the influx of more than 900,000 refugees arriving in Greece from Syria at that time.  Chloe shares her experience and the changing nature of the challenges they face. Initially, Greece was a very welcoming country, as Greek citizens personally and collectively identified with their own histories of forced migration in the 1920s. However, the wars in the Middle East that led to the refugee crisis coincided with the collapse of the Greek economy during the financial crisis, impoverishing many many Greeks. Rightwing politicians exploited this vulnerability and gained a stronger foothold in Greek politics.   

Today refugees and asylum seekers are much more diverse coming from many different countries, and often arriving in desperate and vulnerable conditions.  Chloe explains how their previous support strategies were being undermined through policy and law changes, such as restricting access for NGOs from entering refugee camps where they had been supporting children for the past 7 years, or preventing them from going onto beaches to support the rescue of asylum seekers in trouble at sea. 

Many organisations espouse being agile these days, and many could learn from small NGOs like Lighthouse Relief who pivot and adapt to the fast-changing conditions they have to work in.  Chloe shares how the NGO teams support each other to do this work and Simon and Chloe end the podcast reflecting on the importance of what it means to have a home.  This is an important and powerful podcast to begin 2024.

Often we question if the money we give to charity goes directly to the people impacted and who need the support.  Chloe's NGO is small but has a big impact on so many lives;  please give to support Chloe and the Lighthouse Relief team doing their vital work.

 You can donate here: www.lighthouserelief.org/donate

Bio: 

Chloe draws on her professional experiences in the arts, journalism, and at human rights organizations to run partnerships and advocacy for Lighthouse Relief. As Co-Director, she helps drive its strategic direction and navigate the changing humanitarian landscape. 

Previously, Chloe has written about art and cultural diplomacy for publications including The New York Times and served as United Nations correspondent for several media outlets, reporting through the lens of gender equality. Her engagement with refugees and the issues affecting them in Greece began while reporting from camps near the North Macedonian border in 2016. She holds a B.S. in Foreign Service from Georgetown University and a M.A. in International Affairs from Sciences Po, Paris. 

This podcast focuses on Richard Carter's work and life as a vicar at St Martin-in-the-field, a bustling church in Trafalgar Square London, known for its work on social justice and in particular its work with the homeless.  Richard and Simon met when Simon was experiencing a deep personal trauma and loss.  Richard became a very important spiritual support and friend during the early days of grief.  Previous to his work in London Richard spent 15 years in the Solomon Islands as a chaplain to, then member of, the Melanesian Brotherhood, an Anglican monastic community.  During this time Richard too experienced a deep traumatic loss when 7 brothers of his community who were working for peace were taken hostage and killed.  Richard and Simon discuss their response to their grief, highlighting the hope and grace that transcends grief, enabling new life to emerge. 

Richard shares the impact of the move from a quiet island in the Pacific Ocean with no electricity, to the heart of busy, noisy London.  Over the years he wondered about returning to a life of more silent prayer, yet realized that he had a calling to build community and offer stability through his work in London.  On a retreat, he found spiritual clarity and the words came to him… ‘The city is my monastery’.   Seeking community, it was homeless people, particularly international refugees who became an essential part of his community.  He founded the Nazareth Community to respond to people's spiritual need for community, silence and sanctuary and to offer service when living in the bustling city and the Nazareth Community welcomes members from all walks and experiences of life.  Richard shares the joys of multi-cultural London, his life is enriched by diversity, the nature found in London’s parks, and the gifts he receives from a life of service to others.

Get Richard's book here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Letters-Nazareth-Contemplative-Journey-Home/dp/1786224917

Bio

Richard Carter is Associate Vicar at St Martin’s where he has been working and living as a priest since 2006 on the edge of Trafalgar Square. Richard has special responsibility for the education and formation programme, pastoral care and outreach to those facing homelessness.  Richard is the founder of the Nazareth Community, whose members gather from everyday life to seek God in contemplation and to live compassionately and generously building a community of welcome on the edge of Trafalgar Square. He also started and coordinates the International Group which provides community and support for migrants and asylum seekers and those with no recourse to public funds.  He is the author of The City is My Monastery: A Contemporary Rule of Life, Canterbury Press and editor of Who is My Neighbour? The Global and Personal Challenge (SPCK, 2018). His latest book Letters from Nazareth: A Contemplative Journey Home (Canterbury Press 2023) are letters of encouragement for our times, and how contemplation and reflection lead to resolute action. Richard leads many retreats and quiet days and is a regular contributor to BBC Radio 4’s Daily Service. 

Before living in London Richard was a member of the Melanesian Brotherhood a simple community working for peace in the South Pacific. His experiences there are described in In Search of the Lost (Canterbury Press 2006), a moving first-hand account of loss and grief after the violent deaths of seven members of his religious order.

In this deeply insightful podcast, Niall shares findings and thoughts from his research and study of the conflict in Northern Ireland, published in his recent book Deniable Contact: Back-Channel Negotiation in Northern Ireland. Niall has spoken to key actors in the peace process, and in particular has sought to understand the conflict by seeking data from the back-channel negotiators, those courageous people who put their lives at risk and whose mediation work was done in secret and without acknowledgement. Niall found a rich store of historical evidence, including the private papers of key Irish Republican leaders, and the papers of Brendan Duddy, the intermediary who acted as the primary contact between the IRA and the British government on several occasions.  

Simon shares his experience of meeting Brendan Duddy after inviting him to a Faith in Leadership conference when working at the Tavistock Clinic. Brendan attended Tavistock group relations conferences and was able to utilise this learning in his mediation work, identifying the essential issues with great clarity. At great personal risk, Brendan worked to bridge the unbridgeable divide and bring two sides together in secret negotiations.  

Niall shares his thoughts on what learning can emerge from the Northern Irish peace process and warns about what cannot be generalised. This is a truly fascinating discussion.  

Get Niall's book here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deniable-Contact-Back-Channel-Negotiation-Northern/dp/0192894765

Short Bio

Niall Ó Dochartaigh is a Professor of Political Science and Sociology and Director of the MA in Public Policy at the University of Galway. He has published extensively on the Northern Ireland conflict, on peace negotiations and on territorial conflict. His publications include Civil Rights to Armalites: Derry and the Birth of the Irish Troubles and the co-edited books Political Violence in Context and Dynamics of Political Change in Ireland: Making and Breaking a Divided Island. His most recent book, Deniable Contact: Back-channel Negotiation in Northern Ireland, published by Oxford University Press in 2021, was awarded the Brian Farrell book prize of the Political Studies Association of Ireland and was shortlisted for the 27th Christopher Ewart-Biggs Literary Prize. 

Napoleon is back in the cinemas, and apparently, there are more movies made about him than any other person, he is third on the list of most books written about a person (behind Jesus and Hitler).

So what is the allure and what can we learn from this Mesianic leadership figure?   

To dig deep into these questions Jonathan Gosling and Stephanie Jones join me as guests, bringing their insights from their book on Napoleonic Leadership, a study of power which you can download from here www.napoleonic-leadership.com

This is a rich conversation, exploring ideas of charisma, power, and patronage, and asking questions about how certain contexts create the conditions for different leadership approaches.  We explore the object of desire and how charisma is not just about having an extrovert personality, but how a leader harnesses the desires of a nation to their own desires, and most importantly takes action. 

Jonathan reflects on this active element of leadership and how tactics and power, mixed with the drive to act were a big part of Napoleon's leadership approach.  If you've watched the movie, listen to the analysis and review if you are interested in leadership, this is a must-listen anyway.

Bios

Prof Jonathan Gosling

Jonathan acts in an advisory capacity for leadership-related projects in commercial, governmental and activist organisations. He has been Professor of Leadership at renowned universities around the world; is a key-note speaker on leadership, power and change; is principal investigator for complex research projects; and coordinates Pelumbra’s growing portfolio of programs. His writing covers a spectrum from scholarly philosophical articles on ethics and wisdom, to applicable lessons drawn from historical leaders such as Napoleon Bonaparte and Horatio Nelson.

Jonathan was recently appointed as a Visiting Professor at the Bristol Leadership and Change Centre (BLCC) at the University of the West of England and runs his own consulting company, Pelumbra Ltd.

You can find out more about Jonathan at: www.jonathangosling.com

Dr Stephanie Jones

Associate Professor of Organizational Behavior at Maastricht School of Management, having graduated with a PhD from University College London, and a Bachelor’s degree (in History) from the London School of Economics. Dr Jones has authored over 25 full-length internationally-published books on business and management – three of them with Professor Jonathan Gosling. She teaches MBA students across the world, especially courses on leadership, culture and change. Her teaching locations include Kuwait, Egypt, Yemen, China, Vietnam, Peru, Surinam, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and several African countries. With a background managing businesses in recruitment, consulting, and training operations in China, India, the Middle East and Australia, Dr Jones gained extensive experience in the corporate sector before returning to academe a decade ago. She is still active in consulting and training. Dr Jones also supervises student theses, at Doctoral, Masters and Diploma levels, assessing and evaluating theses around the world. Napoleonic Leadership: A Study in Power is her third book with Professor Gosling, the others being Nelson’s Way: Leadership Lessons from the Great Commander (2005, published by Nicholas Brealey) and Key Concepts in Leadership (2012).

In this episode, the iconic and world-renowned management expert Henry Mintzberg shares his wisdom on issues of management, organisations and how society needs rebalancing. More than this, Henry generously reflects on his own working methods and approaches, which gives a fascinating insight into his success. 
 
When asked by Simon how he sees things that others don’t see, Henry points to his hero, the boy in the Hans Christian Anderson story who told the truth to the crowd that the emperor was naked. This is Henry’s perceptive gift, to see what others don’t see, or what they don’t want to see.
 
His first success was the book, 'The Nature of Managerial Work'. Henry observed what 5 CEOs actually did at work. This research found that the widely accepted idea that the manager's role was to plan, organise, coordinate & control, was false. By setting out what they actually did, Henry’s observations had a major impact on how we think about
management. Henry doesn't think he is particularly creative, nor is he a contrarian as some claim, he believes he is perceptive and reports what he sees. Much of Henry’s management education approach places observation at the heart of the work; Henry quotes the baseball coach Yogi Berra, who said, ‘You can observe a lot just by watching’.

Alongside his strength of perception, his other self-identified strength is to be able to reframe. He reframed strategy from being an exercise of future planning to learning and emergence, and he reframed management education as social learning.
 
Henry strongly challenges the MBA as “training the wrong people, in the wrong ways with the wrong consequences”. Henry believes management is a mixture of art, science and craft, and yet the MBA focuses only on the science. Challenged to address this deficit in
management education, Henry alongside colleague Jonathan Gosling and others, created the International Masters Program for Managers, which aimed to rethink management training, placing learning from practice, and learning from each other at the heart of this work.

Rebalancing society is Henry’s continuing passion, where he realises that we are stuck on thinking about two sectors, how the private and public work, but a vital third sector sits outside the other two, which he calls the plural sector. This is made up of those organisations, not private, or public i.e. NGOs, foundations, universities, charities, community groups, non-profits, etc. The plural sector is a vital part of society, and we are presently way out of balance. Henry’s latest book is titled Understanding Organisations…Finally!

This is a deeply insightful podcast that we are sure you will both learn from and enjoy!

Short Bio

Henry Mintzberg is a writer and educator, mostly about managing originations, developing managers, and rebalancing societies (his current focus). After receiving his doctorate from the MIT Sloan School of Management, he has made his professional home in the Desautels Faculty of Management at McGill University in Montreal, where he sits in the Cleghorn Chair of Management Studies, with extensive stints along the way in England and France. He has authored 21 books which have earned him 21 honorary degrees and an officership in the Order of Canada. He publishes a regular blog, a collection of which was published as Bedtime Stories for Managers. He co-founded the International Masters Program for Managers (impm.org) and the International Masters for Health Leadership (mcgill.ca/imhl) as well as CoachingOurselves.com, all novel initiatives for managers to learn together from their own experience. More of his work can be found on mintzberg.org.

Photo credit: Lisa Mintzberg (2019)

In this podcast, Nora Bateson shares her thinking about the ecology of communication, which is at the heart of her latest book 'Combining'. 

Nora shares her experience of being the daughter of Gregory Bateson the world-famous ecological thinker, and how he lived his ecology, rather than treat ecology and systems thinking as objects to study. Nora internalised this and explains how she works with people on her concept of Warm Data and Warm Data Labs, to practice this ecological way of being. Working organically with them, not to solve specific problems in a linear way, but to discover emergent and nuanced possibilities unknown to them at the start of their work together.   

This recording took place on Halloween and Nora shares readings from her new book relating to this time of year, her first reading is 'Lurking Monster' which expresses how the ghosts of industrialisation lurk in our speech and pervade our lifeworlds, entrapping us in cultural patterns of repetition. This is a rich and at times beautiful podcast, which we highly recommend you take your time to listen to when you have the space to feel as well as think. 

Bio

Nora Bateson is an award-winning filmmaker, research designer, writer, educator, and international lecturer, as well as President of the International Bateson Institute based in Sweden. She is the creator of the Warm Data theory and practices.  Nora’s work brings the fields of biology, cognition, art, anthropology, psychology, and information technology together into a study of the patterns in the ecology of living systems. 


In her latest second book Combining, Nora invites us into an ecology of communication where nothing stands alone, and every action sets off a chain of incalculable consequences. She challenges conventional fixes for our problems, highlighting the need to tackle issues at multiple levels, understand interdependence, and embrace ambiguity.

Get the book: https://www.amazon.com/Combining-Nora-Bateson/dp/1913743853

In this podcast, Professor Cary Cooper shares his extensive experience of working to create healthier and happier workplaces. Cary shares his belief that in times of rapid social change, organizational workplaces are more important than ever as sites that can provide healthy environments that support our well-being. Cary identifies key turning points that informed his work; firstly in the 1970s  stress was for the first time identified as a big challenge, and the response was to support the individual to cope with their stress better, e.g. stress management and responses such as today's mindfulness. In the 2008 financial crash and the subsequent 'job restructuring' when organizations stripped their workforce to the minimum, Cary observed a change in workplace responses when a manager said to him that the number one challenge he had was staff retention. This began a shift whereby organizations weren't so concerned with managing individual stress but realized they had to provide workplaces that offered healthy environments where employees could flourish, in order to ensure their well-being, get the best performance from them and to retain them.

Cary identifies the line manager as perhaps the key ingredient for a healthy and productive workplace. Most line managers are chosen for their technical ability, and yet their role is vital in terms of people management skills. Reflecting on the UK's focus on growth, he points to the lack of a policy that focuses on this key area of people management; improving this he believes would be vital to increase growth.

Cary reflects on his personal journey and shares that his life from an Eastern European Jewish working-class background story continues to impact on him,  citing the constant need to 'prove himself' as the driver of his success.

This is a wonderful podcast with one of the great figures of our generation, who has contributed to organizational health and well-being. 

Enjoy the listen!

Bio: Professor Sir Cary Cooper


Cary L. Cooper is the 50th Anniversary Professor of Organizational Psychology and Health at the Alliance Manchester Business School, University of Manchester. He is a founding President of the British Academy of Management, Immediate Past President of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development (CIPD), former President of RELATE and President of the Institute of Welfare. He was the Founding Editor of the Journal of Organizational Behavior, former Editor of the scholarly journal Stress and Health and is the Editor-in-Chief of the Wiley-Blackwell Encyclopaedia of Management, now in its’ 3rd Edition.

He has been an advisor to the World Health Organisation, ILO, and EU in the field of occupational health and wellbeing, was Chair of the Global Agenda Council on Chronic Disease of the World Economic Forum (2009-2010), then served for 5 years on the Global Agenda Council for mental health of the WEF, and was Chair of the Academy of Social Sciences 2009-2015. He was Chair of the Sunningdale Institute in the Cabinet Office and National School of Government 2005-2010. Professor Cooper is currently the Chair of the National Forum for Health & Wellbeing at Work (comprising 40 global companies e.g. BP, Microsoft, NHS Executive, UK government (wellbeing lead) , Rolls Royce, John Lewis Partnership, etc.). Professor Cooper is the author/editor of over 250 books in the field of occupational health psychology, workplace wellbeing, women at work and occupational stress. He was awarded the CBE by the Queen for his contributions to occupational health; and in 2014 he was awarded a Knighthood for his contribution to the social sciences.

Show Notes
In this conversation, Simon and Mishel explore the significance of First Nations worldviews, and how through the modern worldview we have lost our relationships to the land and wider ecologies including our ancestors.  Mishel McMahon, a proud Yorta Yorta woman living on Djaara Country, northern Victoria, Australia, and shares her lived experience and her academic research to help us break out of our limited modern mindsets, where humans are the top of a chain of being, rather than part of an ecology of co-existence and interdependence. 
She emphasizes the need to reconnect, the importance of relationality, and the concept of cyclical time. Michelle shares insights on how these perspectives can inform health and healing practices, and the conversation culminates in a call for re-enchantment and recognition of our interdependence with the world around us.

Reflections
First Nations worldviews offer a broader understanding of reality.
Modern mindsets often reduce our connection to nature and each other.
Relationality extends beyond human relationships to include all entities.
Cyclical time emphasizes the interconnectedness of past, present, and future.
Ancestors play a crucial role in decision-making and identity.
Everything in nature is infused with spirit, creating a sense of family.
Collective identity fosters collaboration and mutual support.
Re-enchantment is necessary to combat disenchantment in modern life.
Thinking is a communal practice, influenced by our surroundings.
Connection to place is fundamental for personal and collective transformation.

Keywords
First Nations, worldviews, modernity, relationality, ancestors, cyclical time, ecosystems, collective identity, re-enchantment, connection to nature

Bio
Mishel McMahon is a casual Senior Research Fellow, Violet Vines Marshman Research Centre and proud Yorta Yorta woman living on Djaara Country, northern Victoria. Through First Nations-led research Mishel positions First Nations worldviews, concepts and processes for application within the health and healing sector, and research methodologies. Mishel led the Victorian Aboriginal Research Accord project, an 'On Country' Aboriginal Youth Leadership Aboriginal youth mentoring: a pathway to leadership, Blak Butterfly: First Nations emergency care best practice framework Blak Butterfly and Replanting the Birthing Trees: Our Kids Growing Up Strong, Happy & Healthy. 

Barbie, patriarchy, and the culture wars with Professor Caroline Bainbridge

This podcast came about in relation to Caroline and Simon’s personal reactions to the Barbie movie and in recognition that this movie is a 'cultural event' that demands some thought.

As Caroline says, 'this movie needs psychoanalysis': Freudians would say it's all about death, desire, and sexual difference. For anyone interested in object relations, themes of play, transitional spaces, and phenomena, aggression and pain make up the substance of the plot. For Caroline, a key part of the movie's pleasure is linked to its radical owning of the patriarchy as a fact, a given of contemporary society. It's the first time she can recall having seen this depicted on film in a mainstream movie in such a bold, incontrovertible way. This, in itself, makes the movie radical, she argues, despite its unevenness in parts. Caroline talks inspiringly about how her repeat viewings of the film revealed the extent of its play with ideas, and she shares her deep and thoughtful views on why this movie is important.

Simon watched the movie once and found himself both very impressed and also very troubled: while he admires the outing of the patriarchy that Caroline mentions, this doesn't outweigh his concern about the portrayal of men as degrading, and he found the depiction of seemingly binary differences between men and women troubling. For Simon, this potentially feeds into the right-wing populist agenda that, in turn, feeds off the gender and culture wars.

Caroline sees it a little differently, suggesting there are some subtle nuances built by director Greta Gerwig, especially in her play with the distinctive absence of genitalia in Barbie and Ken dolls. She suggests that the film centers this idea, the better to open up space to explore what non-binary, trans, and more fluid ideas of gender might be like. Similarly, Caroline notes that critics sometimes describe Barbieland as a matriarchy, but Gerwig actually does something novel here. There are no mothers in Barbieland, and no children either - in fact, the film goes to great lengths to show how maternal versions of the doll such as Midge have been discontinued, and narrator, Helen Mirren, plays with the idea of smashing associations between doll play and being a mother from the very beginning. The implication is that Barbieland is not so much a matriarchy as a woman-to-woman sociality, and this has important implications for how Gloria (America Ferrera) and Sasha (Ariana Greenblatt) are able to find one another afresh and to re-navigate their complex relationship.

Simon's Substack blog on the film which led to this podcast can be read here.

Bio

Caro Bainbridge is Emeritus Professor of Psychoanalysis and Culture and a former editor of Free Associations and of the film section at the International Journal of Psychoanalysis. She co-edits a book series on psychoanalysis and popular culture for Routledge. She's a Fellow of the RSA, a Founding Scholar of the British Psychoanalytic Council, Research Associate at the Freud Museum, London, and a member of ISPSO and Opus. Caro has recently co-founded the MiNDings consultancy (www.mindings.org), where she works in the organizational processes and leadership space. She is also a member of the Eco Leadership Institute, and she practices as an executive and personal coach. Outside work, she makes the most of living close to Another Place, an art installation on a beach that evokes edges and possibilities in equal measure.

In this podcast, Yannick shares how he believes coaching can play an important role for clients with an interest in using psychedelics. LSD and other psychedelics were popular in the 1960s with Timothy Leary being the guru of the age, but disrupting the field as well. At the time, psychedelics-assisted forms of therapy were first explored. Following the Nixon administration's declaration of a "war on drugs'', psychedelics have been marginalised and all research banned until the early 2000s saw a renaissance of psychedelics in the field of mental health treatment. Yannick explains how his interest was stimulated by emerging clinical research and how he started to make relevant connections to positive psychology and coaching. In this episode, he lays out his argument of why psychedelics could be used for learning, growth and well-being, and not just as a treatment for illness, and why coaching might be an ideal partner in this endeavour. In the process, Yannick describes his journey which leads to ethical questions, social questions and also questions about coaching itself.

Enjoy this edgy edition of Edgy Ideas!

Bio:

Yannick Jacob is a Coach, Trainer & Supervisor with Masters degrees in Existential Coaching and Applied Positive Psychology. He is part of the teaching faculties at Cambridge University and the International Centre for Coaching Supervision, and he’s the Course Director of the School of Positive Transformation’s Accredited Certificate in Integrative Coaching, for which he gathered many of the world’s most influential coaches. Formerly Programme Leader of the MSc Coaching Psychology at the University of East London, Yannick now presents at conferences internationally and his book, An Introduction to Existential Coaching, was published by Routledge. Committed to helping other coaches be the best coaches they can be, Yannick founded and hosts Yannick’s Coaching Lab which gives novice and seasoned coaches an opportunity to witness experienced coaches live in action, and he is the host of Animas Centre for Coaching's popular podcast Coaching Uncaged, as well as his own podcasts Talking about Coaching and Talking about Coaching and Psychedelics.

Paul shares his thoughts and experience on the power of narrative and the importance of upgrading our purpose to meet the poly-crisis and disruptive contemporary social conditions we face. Paul points out that purpose is not a fixed destination, but an emergent position that needs to be adapted to each context.  Repurposing leads to revitalising organisations and in a wide-ranging discussion Paul also reflects on the importance of collaborative advantage, drawing on his earlier book, and contrasts this to competitive advantage.  He also points to the need to widen our gaze to include the shadow, 'the wolf that lurks to pounce', as very often we are consumed with a more short-term and limited vision of what is going on.  Our discussion continues to look at the critical links between narrative and marketing, and we discuss psychotherapy's role in organisational awareness which is becoming ever more critical.  

Bio

Paul Skinner is the author of the award-winning book, The Purpose Upgrade: Change your Business to Save the World. Change the World to Save your Business, which Mike Berners-Lee, author of There Is No Planet B, described as, ‘...a necessary and enlightening call to action for businesses to re-think why they exist and the implications for everything they say, think and do'.

Paul's previous book Collaborative Advantage: How Collaboration Beats Competition as a Strategy for Success was described by Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, Co-founders of Ben and Jerry's ice cream, as, 'the perfect recipe for successful businesses that improve lives'.

Through his consulting practice the Agency of the Future, Paul helps clients to drive purpose-led change and better mobilise stakeholders for lasting success. He also founded MarketingKind, a non-profit professional membership community bringing business leaders, marketers and change-makers together to address our most pressing problems as 'marketing briefs in disguise’.

In this podcast, Chris and John share the ideas presented in their recent book, which examines how trauma and marginalization are produced and perpetuated by in-group and out-group dynamics. They turn questions upside down, making us think differently about social problems. When asked how to help the homeless, they return the question in a different way, asking how the ‘we’ of ‘housed’ in groups cause people to be psycho-socially 'unhoused', revealing how we are all implicated in the trauma of others. The hundreds of migrants who die at sea are not poor neutral victims, but those we have unhoused and displaced through wars, colonialism and neo-liberal capitalist economics.  

They invite us to make use of their "Diogenes Paradigm", drawing on the story of the ancient street philosopher to highlight questions of power and authority; they re-tell the story of how Alexander the Great asked Diogenes, who lived in a barrel with his dogs, whether he could do anything for him. Diogenes replied: “Yes, you can move as you are blocking the sunlight”. This Diogenes Paradigm allows us to explore power dynamics between systems of care and excluded out-groups, from housing policies in London or the UK prison system at the micro level to the broader issues of human mobility, the "might" of empires, and the climate disaster that threatens us all. 

Enjoy this thought-provoking podcast that asks important questions for our times. 
Bios
Chris and John have been writing and teaching together for two decades. Their recent co-authored book "Psychosocial explorations of trauma, exclusion and violence: Un-housed minds and inhospitable environments" was published by Routledge in 2022: 
https://www.routledge.com/Psycho-social-Explorations-of-Trauma-Exclusion-and-Violence-Un-housed/Scanlon-Adlam/p/book/9780367893316
Dr Chris Scanlon (DPhil) is an independent psycho-social Researcher/Consultant, Training Group Analyst at the Institute of Group Analysis (UK) and at the Irish Group Analytic Society (Dublin), associate lecturer on the Integrated Professional Doctorate (IPD) programme Tavistock Centre/University of Essex and is a founder member and board member of the Association for Psychosocial Studies (APS). He has worked for over 30 years as a practitioner and educator in NHS - including 15 years as an NHS Consultant Psychotherapist in general adult and forensic mental health and has acted as an expert advisor/consultant to a range of agencies.
John Adlam is a group psychotherapist and independent researcher and a founder member of the Association for Psychosocial Studies. He lives in Brixton in South London and works for the most part in the National Health Service, where he is Consultant Adult Forensic Psychotherapist at Bethlem Royal Hospital and Principal Adult Psychotherapist at Springfield Hospital. Previously he worked for the Henderson Hospital Democratic Therapeutic Community. He also worked for many years for the Adult Eating Disorders Service at Springfield. Apart from his book with Chris, he is also co-editor of Violent States and Creative States: From the Global to the Individual (2018); Forensic Music Therapy (2012); and The Therapeutic Milieu Under Fire: Security and Insecurity in Forensic Mental Health (2012); Chris is one of the five co-editors of this last volume - all published by Jessica Kingsley Publishers.

In this fascinating discussion, Andrés shares his expertise on economics and money and how policy and politics are created. Andrés challenges the 'taken-for-granted' assumptions that underpin economics and money, he shines the light of emotions onto the topic;  or what in psychoanalysis we call the libidinal economy i.e. the underpinning unconscious and emotional drivers that shape political and economic choices. 

 
Andrés shares his view that not only neo-liberal conservatives are attached to the status quo, and argues that many progressives and those on the political left also get caught up in these normative economic and political 'myths'. Radical political agendas are undermined by ideas like "we must stick to the fiscal rules" and "we cannot borrow our way out of this mess".  Post second world war construction of the National health service and welfare state in the UK, showed how political will can deliver change when a country is most economically challenged; the same happened in the Covid Pandemic financial crash when all the rules changed to accommodate radical financial policies to keep businesses afloat. Simon and Andrés discuss class and identity politics, the rise of populism and how we need to bring care back into our political and social way of thinking.    

In this wide-ranging discussion, we explore the interconnections between our unconscious and emotional lives, economics, politics and money. 

Enjoy this powerful podcast! 


Bio

Andrés Bernal is a lecturer in urban studies at the City University of New York and a Research Fellow with the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity. His focus is on the bridging of theory and practice for fostering equitable and sustainable social systems including researching and advocating for policies like the Green New Deal in the United States. He is a former policy advisor for congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and co-host of the podcast, Funny Money.

How do we live with technology in our digital age which is fast becoming an AI and Quantum age?  

There are those who understand, design and deliver tech’ and those who specialise in understanding people –between these two groups is a huge gap.

Anni Rowland-Campbell has been trying to address this gap for over 25 years, by bringing people together from all walks of life to have ‘Brave Conversations’ about what’s happening in their world, and how technology impacts on them. Anni shares her experiences in this podcast and also her concern that we are just not taking technological change seriously enough or quickly enough. 
 
Simon and Anni discuss regulation, which is mainly coming from the EU, but perhaps more importantly needs to come via ourselves, through self-regulation and community actions that help us regulate and have more choice over how we use tech. Technology can be exciting, amazingly useful and also have many unforeseen consequences. Anni's work is to try and harness the best humanity has to use tech well in order that we live well too. 

Enjoy this thought-provoking podcast, and ask yourself: “What am I doing to take more control and to live more healthily with others, in this technologically pervasive world”. 

Bio 

Anni Rowland-Campbell is a philanthropist and Web Science practitioner. She is Director of Intersticia a global charity and social enterprise which focuses on helping to develop emerging stewards for the 21st Century. 

For the past two decades, Anni has worked with Boards, Senior Leadership and Management Teams to help them become more "Digitally Savvy” as they increasingly operate online.  
In 2017 she created Brave Conversations as a way to bring the conversations of the Social Machine to the general public of all ages, stages and from all walks of life.  Since then Brave Conversations has been held all around the world both face-to-face and online.  Anni has worked in the Arts, Government and the Corporate sectors and has also led a number of research projects with the Web Science Institute investigating the topic of "Government as a Social Machine”.  Anni is President of the Digital Enlightenment Foundation, a Trustee of the Web Science Trust, a Non-Executive Director of Founders and Coders UK, the Social Change Agency and a Fellow of Goodenough College, London.  She is also a member of the Advisory Boards of MENA Alliances.

Richard brings to his work a deep sensitivity and diverse experiences, to offer us valuable insights into the world of organisational life.  Drawing on Group Relations work,  psychoanalytic theory, his experience as a psychotherapist and clinician and his coaching and consulting work, Richard makes strong connections between the body, mind and soul.
 
In this delightful conversation, Richard shares his thinking from his book The Body of the Organisation and its Health and his work connecting individual, group and social experiences in The Trilogy Event he has innovated, offers an experiential learning setting to explore how different parts of our systems, carry emotions and thoughts on behalf of other parts.
 
Enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with Richard sharing his wisdom that is much needed in today's organisations.
 
Bio
 
Richard Morgan-Jones: Group Relations, Organizational Consulting and Executive Coaching. Supervising and Training Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist with British Psychotherapy Foundation, Author. Registered member of British Psychoanalytic Council (BPC). Distinguished Honorary Member of International Society for Psychoanalytic Society of Organizations (ISPSO). Mentor and member of the AK Rice Institute (USA) and member of the Organization for Promoting the Understanding of Society (OPUS). Visiting professor at the Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad and of the Higher School of Economics in Moscow.

Director of Work Force Health: Consulting and Research whose work is explored in consultancies, an international workshop and a book entitled: The Body of the Organisation and its Health, London: Karnac, which explores how organisations get under the skin and reveal personal and team development opportunities and organisational strategic choices. He also has written about a psychoanalytic approach to understanding Restorative Justice, the Banking crisis, the vulnerability of the nation-state and its citizens in Europe, the celebrity cult, social dreaming and the language of the group skin.

The Eco-Leadership Institute has recently entered into a partnership with the Humanitarian Leadership Academy with the purpose to re-enchant the sector. This podcast was recorded in the Save the Children London office as part of a workshop for international humanitarian staff. The aim was for Gareth to introduce Simon and his ideas on Eco-Leadership to those working in the humanitarian sector. 

In this podcast, Simon shares his personal work journey, showing how his experience shaped the project of Eco-Leadership. Gareth and Simon then discuss the challenges in the humanitarian sector and they explore how the new partnership aims to meet these challenges with some new ideas that are already having an impact. The Eco-Mutualist manifesto below summarises some of this thinking. Enjoy the listen!

Eco-Mutualism: A Manifesto for a New Age of Humanitarianism

Bio

Dr. Simon Western is the founder and CEO of the Eco-Leadership Institute, a leading academic and practitioner in coaching and leadership. He is the author of "Leadership: A Critical Text" (3rd ed., Sage 2019) and "Coaching and Mentoring: A Critical Text" (Sage 2012) plus many book chapters and journal articles.  He has also contributed to the development of a new paradigm in leadership through his work on Eco-Leadership.

Dr Western is a Past President of the International Society for the Psychoanalytic Study of Organisations, previously adjunct Professor at University College Dublin, Director of Coaching at Lancaster University Management School, and Director of Masters in Consulting and Leadership at the Tavistock Clinic.

Gareth Owen OBE is the Humanitarian Director of Save the Children UK. Over the last two decades, he has led responses to numerous emergencies all over the world including the Boxing Day Tsunami, Pakistan and Haiti earthquakes, Cyclone Nargis in Myanmar, East Africa and Niger food crises and the Somalia, Angola, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria conflicts. Today, he leads a team of 190+ humanitarian professionals and in June 2013 he was awarded the OBE for ‘For services to Emergency Crisis Response Abroad’.

In this podcast, Rob Briner shares his expertise and insights on evidence-based practice. Rob became interested in evidence-based research early in his academic career when he realised how much knowledge and assumed facts lacked convincing evidence. Simon converses with Rob from the position of a sceptic, having experienced evidence-based practice in healthcare and human resources settings when poorly delivered. Rob offers a fascinating insight into how evidence-based practice can be useful if delivered in a thoughtful and rigorous way.  He shares the importance of collecting evidence from multiple sources and different perspectives. In a healthcare setting for example, this would include gathering opinions from patients and families, getting expert views from professionals, gathering data from the context such as healthcare outcomes, and finally looking at scientific data to search for the best knowledge/evidence available to apply to the situation. 

Evidence-based research can be distorted to produce ‘magical numbers’ and Rob emphasises the need to critically examine what these numbers do and do not mean, and how they are used and misused. Critical thinking is also necessary to reflect on assumptions and biases that can lead to ‘evidence-based’ findings, produced to convince people to follow a particular path that was pre-ordained. Rob also points to the need for a more ground-up approach, to really think about what the challenge or problem is, and then design an evidence-based research study,  rather than  designing a study that will produce findings desired by a particular power group.  This podcast is a must listen for all who wish to deepen their understanding of evidence-based practice.  


Bio

Rob is Professor of Organizational Psychology at Queen Mary, University of London and is co-founder and Scientific Director of the Center for Evidence-Based Management. He is also a Visiting Professor of Evidence-Based HRM at Birkbeck (University of London) and Professor at Oslo Nye Høyskole. He has held positions at the Institute for Employment Studies, London School of Economics, Kings’s College (University of London), Bath University and University of Edinburgh. His research has focused on several topics including well-being, emotions, stress, ethnicity, the psychological contract, organizational culture and climate, absence from work, motivation, work-nonwork and everyday work behaviour. Beyond academic research and teaching, Rob helps practitioners and organizations make better use of evidence, including research evidence in decision-making as well as encouraging academics to make scientific research more accessible. He has received several awards for his work in this area including the British Psychological Society Division of Occupational Psychology Academic Contribution to Practice Award in 2014, topped HR Magazine’s Most Influential Thinker list in 2016, received a Lifetime Achievement Award in 2019 and was admitted to HR Magazine’s Hall of Fame.

Contact Rob: r.briner@gmail.com

Alicia brings a multicultural spirit and curiosity to her work and thinking, having been born in Argentina to European Jewish parents, having Spanish daughters, and now living in Spain. In this podcast, Alicia discusses her reflections on a lifetime of experience and work, much of which focuses on women and leadership. She highlights the importance of recognizing age and generational differences, which are often marginalized when we talk of women's issues as if they are universal. Alicia's research identifies how different age groups have different relationships to work and life, and these must be accounted for.


Alicia also highlights how sibling relationships are often left out of our sense-making of workplace dynamics. Yet our sibling relations so often get re-enacted unconsciously at work with our peers and teams, and how we react to our bosses/managers. Alicia has lived a rich life, believing that living in precarious contexts not only produces hardship and anxiety but can also stimulate imagination and innovation, as it has done in her own life. Alicia's insights are rich: enjoy this podcast! 


Bio

Alicia E. Kaufmann holds a doctorate degree in Sociology from Paris and Madrid. She has taught at Instituto de Empresa management school and was a Fulbright scholar twice, once at Yale University in organizational behaviour and the other on leadership. Previously a tenure profesor at Alcalá de Henares University. She is a member of ISPSO (International Society of Psychoanalysis of Organizations) and OPUS (Organization for Promoting Understanding of Society) in London, as well as ICF (International Coaching Federation). Her multicultural background (European parents, born in Argentina, with Spanish children) has opened up a range of interests and curiosity for life that has led her to explore different paths.


In 1984, she was part of the executive team of the first Hospital Management School in Madrid. She worked as a facilitator for Stephen Covey, author of "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" (USA). She has written 28 books, including "Women in Management and Life Cycle (London Palgrave McMillan, 2008), "Change Female Identities" (London Palgrave McMillan, 2012), and "Woman Power and Money: Build Your Puzzle of Success" (editor Madrid, Medialuna, 2016).


Alicia is a Certified Analytic Network Coach and a member of the Eco-Leadership Institute. She now works mainly in Executive Coaching in Organizations, reflecting on new cultures and leadership styles, and helping people take up their authority.


 Get in contact with Alicia: aliciakauf@gmail.com

Breaking Together
In this conversation, Jem Bendel discusses his journey from a career in corporate sustainability to advocating for a radical shift in how we approach climate change and societal collapse. He reflects on his influential paper, 'Deep Adaptation,' which argues that the sustainability movement is no-longer appropriate and that we should prepare for societal collapse. Jem introduces his new framework, 'Breaking Together,' which emphasizes community resilience and eco-libertarianism as a path forward. He shares personal insights about his upbringing and how they shaped his worldview, ultimately advocating for a collective approach to lead localised change. 

Takeaways

• The sustainability movement has largely failed to address the urgency of climate change.
• Deep Adaptation provides a framework for discussing societal collapse.
• Many people have been radicalized by the realization of impending collapse.
• Eco-libertarianism offers a path that contrasts with eco-authoritarianism.
• Community resilience is essential in the face of societal challenges.
• Personal experiences can deeply influence one's worldview and actions.
• A good life is about inquiry, creativity, and connection, not just longevity.
• We must reclaim control over our resources and communities.
• The dominant narratives in society can limit our understanding of what is possible.
• Collective action and community engagement are crucial for creating a better future.

Bio
Prof. Jem Bendell is Founder of the Deep Adaptation movement, an emeritus professor with the University of Cumbria and the co-Founder of the International Scholars’ Warning on Societal Disruption and Collapse. He worked for over 20 years in corporate sustainability, helping launch or develop many international initiatives. That led to his recognition as a Young Global Leader. His 2018 paper "Deep Adaptation" was downloaded over a million times and is widely credited with helping inspire the growth of the Extinction Rebellion movement. That marked a departure, whereby he concluded the field of sustainability had failed. His new book "Breaking Together" goes further by outlining a collapse-based political framework. Jem also co-hosts the short online course Leading Through Collapse: https://www.katie-carr.com/leadingthroughcollapse.

In this podcast, Julia Vaughan Smith shares her reflections about mother and daughter relationships, having just completed a book on the subject. Julia describes the entanglement between mother and daughter that often occurs, and how this can entrap daughters into ways of being that don't enable them to flourish. Anger and hurt can become life scripts that are hard to shake off, limiting daughters' capacity to have joy in their lives. Simon and Julia discuss cross-generational patterns, and also how our relationships to parents continue even when they have died. How daughters relate to mothers, and children to parents more generally, requires time and safe spaces to work through and liberate us from the more destructive patterns and narratives we get caught up in. Julia shares how through the writing of the book, her own relationship with her mother changed and she became more compassionate, understanding and free in the process. 

Bio

Julia Vaughan Smith is an accredited master executive coach and coach supervisor; a qualified psychotherapist (no longer practising) who has spent many years as an organisational and leadership development consultant primarily in health care. ‘Daughters: How to Untangle Yourself from Your Mother’ is her third book and her first for a general readership. Her two previous books ‘Coaching and Trauma’ and ‘Therapist to Coach’ were written for coaches. She has been teaching about coaching and trauma for the last five years. Her latest book for daughters will be launched on 3rd April 2023, and will be available from all booksellers and via www.becomingourselves.co.uk.

Donate to Karolina (Fine NGO): https://fine.ngo/en/make-a-donation

Donate to Zuzanna (Salam NGO): https://paypal.me/salamlab

In this podcast Zuzanna and Karolina tell their stories of how they responded to the outbreak of war on the Polish border, and to the sudden influx of millions of refugees, mostly women and children fleeing war.

Their individual responses were driven by empathy and a deep humanitarian impulse.  Each share how they utilised and transferred existing skillsets, and drew on their networks to offer extraordinary responses.  Karolina managed to set up a kindergarten within two weeks of the outbreak of war, providing support for 100 children, employing Ukrainian women and establishing a charity to support this work.   Zuzanna’s small NGO had been working on the Belarusian border with refugees and pivoted their focus to immediately provide a help centre and homeless shelter to support the thousands of homeless war refugees flooding into Krakow.   

One year after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, over 9 million border crossings have taken place, and approximately 2 million refugees remain in Poland. Karolina and Zuzanna’s organisations have organically grown and adapted to meet changing needs.  Now their focus is more on integration, building civil society, education and psychological support. They work directly with refugees and also with teachers and others who support them.

Their work is being replicated throughout Poland. Small start-up initiatives alongside existing NGOs have innovated, adapted and worked tirelessly to accommodate and support refugees. These inspiring stories have lessons for the wider humanitarian organisations and for all of us engaged in leading change.  This is also a story of how women’s leadership, which dominates the NGO sector in Poland and beyond, can deliver amazing results.

I met Zuzanna and Karolina and many other NGOs in Poland as part of a new initiative sponsored by the Humanitarian Leadership Academy.  The Eco-Leadership Institute is partnering with the HLA to pioneer new ways to deliver humanitarian aid we call Eco-Mutualism

This approach challenges paternalistic and centralised approaches, offering alternatives that engage people mutually and harvesting the resources in their wider ecosystems.  Zuzanna and Karolina offer excellent case studies of Eco-Mutualism in action.  Their task now is to help make their initial urgent responses more sustainable.  The Humanitarian Leadership Academy and the Eco-Leadership Institute will be working mutually with them, and you can help by donating directly.

Donate to Karolina (Fine NGO): https://fine.ngo/en/make-a-donation

Donate to Zuzanna (Salam NGO): https://paypal.me/salamlab

Bios

Zuzanna Tamas Co-Founder of Salam Lab; Board Member, Director of Humanitarian Aid and Fundraising. Salam Lab is an NGO working for human rights, inclusion and against discrimination. Zuzanna worked for 7 years in Qatar, with people from all over the world, and brings that experience to create an inclusive and diverse workplace at Salam Lab. She specialises in humanitarian aid, diversity and inclusion. Zuzanna is certified in Management, Humanitarian Standards, Inclusive Humanitarian Programming, as well as Diversity, Inclusion and Belonging.

Karolina Bisping-Adamik President of the FINE NGO Foundation. Professionally involved in the organization of production and promotion of cultural events, film and music festivals, concerts, art exhibitions, and young art and design fairs for many years. Academic teacher at the Pedagogical University in Krakow and at the School of Computer Graphics. Master of Sociology at the Philosophy Faculty of the Jagiellonian University in Krakow, and postgraduate studies in Cultural Diplomacy at Collegium Civitas in Warsaw 

Michael Barnett is a leading thinker and scholar on humanitarianism, which as he says cannot be separated from humanity. Michael frames humanitarianism in the context of Empire, discussing the ongoing tensions between paternalism/control and compassion/giving that have been present since humanitarianism began. In more recent times humanitarianism has shifted from a voluntarism ethos to an expert professional ethos. The benefits and challenges of these changes are now under scrutiny. Professional experts, on the one hand, bring important knowledge and changes that save lives;  on the other hand, there has evolved a technocratic and instrumentalism that silences local and different voices and creates a managerialist machinery that stifles engagement.  

Michael shares his thinking that will be published in a forthcoming book co-authored with Unni Karankura,  "Humanitarianism in a Post-Liberal Age" (Cambridge University Press). Three areas he points to that are driving change are:

1. Securitization – how security is impacting humanitarian work in new ways, and more humanitarians are at risk today.
2. Marketisation – how market forces have radically changed the face of humanitarianism, whereas previously there was a split between the 'sacred-humanitarianism' and the 'profane-market', and now the two find themselves very entangled, with contested outcomes. 
3. Cosmopolitanism — the shift from human rights to a rooted cosmopolitanism in which the givers and receivers are questioning the quality of the aid relationship, typified by the rise of localization, the racial reckoning in the aid sector, and decolonizing aid. 

This is a fascinating and insightful discussion - enjoy.

Bio

Michael Barnett is a University Professor of International Affairs and Political Science at the George Washington University. His research interests span the Middle East, humanitarianism, global governance, global ethics, and the United Nations. Author of Empire of Humanity: A History of Humanitarianism; his most recent books include The Star and the Stripes: A History of the Foreign Policies of the American Jews; Paternalism Beyond Borders; and, most recently, the edited collection Humanitarianism and Human Rights: Worlds of Differences?

His current research projects include the changing forms of global governance, hierarchies in humanitarian governance; the end of the two-state solution and the rise of the one-state reality in Israel/Palestine; and the relationship between suffering and progress in the liberal international order.

A former Associate Editor of International Organization, Professor Barnett is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the recipient of many grants and awards for his research.

Contact Michael: https://elliott.gwu.edu/michael-barnett

Julian is a British psychoanalyst who has worked in the public health sector for many years. In this podcast, he begins by reflecting on how complacent ways of thinking and being are becoming more commonplace, particularly in the consulting and psychotherapeutic world. He discusses a particular clinical case to emphasise this. 

Julian then explores the connection between complacency and action and discusses with Simon how dissociation can lead to conformist ways of being. The conversation then reflects more widely on the role of psychoanalysis in society, and in particular the demise of psychoanalytically applied practices in the public sector. Julian holds the view that society needs containers for its more disturbed and long-term 'ill' citizens, for as he says "not everybody gets well". If psychoanalysis gets pushed wholly into the private sector Julian believes there will be a great loss to society (and also to psychoanalysis). As the public sector increasingly becomes a market-led sector and filled with short-term, more market-friendly treatments and fixes (some of which are helpful of course) the space for holding pain, suffering and dysfunction is diminished.   

When exploring what it means to work towards a good society, Julian shares his view that a good society needs a 'maternal' public sector, and that the nanny state, to paraphrase Margaret Thatcher, obliterates the mother. Julian asks then what happens to the welfare state, to the health and education system and to social care?
   
Enjoy this stimulating and rich discussion.  

Bio 

Julian Lousada is a psychoanalyst and former clinical director Adult department of the Tavistock and Portman Clinic, and former chair of the British Psychoanalytic Council and British Psychoanalytic Federation.  He is an Organisational Consultant in private practice.

In this episode, we focus on Carl Jung's work in relation to coaching and consulting.  Laurence is an eminent Jungian practitioner and author who is trying to bring the magic of Jungian thinking to the modern world of coaching and consulting.  In this rich exchange Laurence shares why he believes Jung's work is so important.  At the heart of this approach is a recovery of the 'soul' that is so often amiss in our dominant rational, managerial approaches.  We discuss the importance of symbolism and how it can be used in coaching, and Jung's work on the collective unconscious, individuation among many other topics. Laurence also shares his views on Jungian ethics and on misconceptions of Jungian thinking.    This is an excellent exploration of Jungian thinking and more importantly Jungian practice. Enjoy the listen!

Bio

Laurence is a coach and consultant, and a Director of Heresy Consulting. Prior to joining Heresy as a Founder Director, Laurence spent over two decades in change leadership roles including most recently as the Director of Group Resourcing and Development for Prudential plc. He holds an MSc in the Psychodynamics of Human Development (Jungian) from the British Psychotherapy Foundation and an MBA from Lancaster University. He trained as a coach and supervisor with the Tavistock Institute and in group work at the Institute of Group Analysis. More recently he has developed an interest in our broader place in the world and holds certificates in Ecopsychology and Ecotherapy from the Pacifica Graduate Institute. He also works as a Practicum Supervisor on the INSEAD Executive Masters in Change and is the author of ‘A Jungian Approach to Coaching: The Theory and Practice of Turning Leaders into People’.

Follow Laurence

Website: https://www.heresyconsulting.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurence-barrett
Buy his book: https://www.routledge.com/A-Jungian-Approach-to-Coaching-The-Theory-and-Practice-of-Turning-Leaders/Barrett/p/book/9780367766368

In this podcast, Nick and Simon go on an intriguing journey that explores coaching from different perspectives. Nick shares his experiences of what is called ‘life coaching’ and reflects on how this differs, and shares common ground with, executive coaching and other forms of helping relationships such as counselling and psychotherapy.  

Nick believes that coaching is a new configuration, built on the shoulders of giants i.e. it draws from the well of knowledge and practices from psychology, psychotherapy and more. Yet he also claims that coaching delivers its support to others in a new way, and also that it has created a new and different client group.  Contemporary society demands a lot emotionally and psychologically and navigating our way through ‘life coaching’ has emerged because it can be beneficial in this domain. Those who are attracted to life coaching aren’t typically experiencing their lives as dysfunctional or suffering in a way that might attract them to psychotherapy or counselling. This opens up a new space to explore and leads to new conversations, methods and insights.  In this fascinating podcast, what it means to be human emerges to be at the centre of Nick's work. 

Nick Bolton is the founder and CEO of Animas Centre for Coaching and the International Centre for Coaching Supervision. With a particular interest in the role of coaching in helping individuals navigate existential issues and the complexities of 21st-century life, Nick combines a solution-focused approach with a deeper inquiry into the client’s worldview which contributes to, though isn’t exclusively responsible for, the conditions or dilemmas they are facing. Nick is an avid lifelong learner and recognises that anything he says today merely reflects his limited thinking in the moment. He considers that a wise disclaimer for any foolishness he says along the way!

Animal rights activism is at the heart of Esther’s work and life. In this podcast, Esther shares her thinking on the entanglements between the way we treat animals and how we live in consumer capitalist cultures. Esther discusses the economic structures behind our mistreatment of animals and the ways in which they are commodified and treated as resources that mirror slavery. She then also offers ideas about what a future world could look like; where animals and human beings have a healthy relationship with one another  

Simon and Esther discuss what facing animal rights issues bring up in others, often disassociation and guilt.  To live with the awareness of how we treat animals is to live with a burden.  We all like to protect the idea of our ‘good-self’; therefore, to acknowledge the animal suffering we collude with is a direct challenge to our 'good-selves', hence our defensiveness.  Esther and Simon discuss whether animals are 'individuals', and what rights they have in relation to individual humans.  Esther discusses broader social movements, direct action and mass mobilisations in this fascinating podcast. 

Bio

Esther delved into full-time Animal Justice work early in life. She dedicates her time towards understanding and building people-powered organisations capable of creating transformative change. She helped to kick-start Animal Rebellion as a full-time member in 2019 and supported it through its first wave of resistance. Esther is the co-founder and Strategic Lead of Animal Think Tank, where she works to promote nonviolence, mass direct action, civil resistance and grassroots activism.

Follow Esther

Websites:

https://animalthinktank.org.uk
https://www.plantbasedfuture.animalrebellion.org

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esther-salomon-0a89a11b9/

We are celebrating our Golden Jubilee with the 50th episode of Edgy Ideas and thought it appropriate to reflect on the monarchy and its meaning. 

My guest Leslie Brissett draws on his wealth of experience in human dynamics and as Director of Group Relations at the Tavistock Institute to share his thoughts on what is projected onto the monarchy from the people, and what the monarchy represents, contains and holds for us.  

Simon is an anti-monarchist, and whilst able to admire Queen Elizabeth's extraordinary leadership over 70 years and recognise how the monarchy offers continuity for many, it also is highly problematic. Simon believes it reinforces a dependency and a "know-your-place" culture that reproduces class divisions, and elitist power and undermines our capacity for autonomy and to maximise our collective potential. 

Leslie and Simon ponder together the meaning of the monarchy and explore the difference, and continuity between a matriarchy (the Queen) and patriarchy (the King). They reflect together in a non-partisan way, what future containment might look like without a monarchy and what can be learnt from the monarchy, that can help us to work towards creating the good society.  
 
Bio 

Leslie is a member of the Judiciary in England and Director of the Group Relations Programme at the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations and has studied human dynamics in experiential settings in many countries. He is also the Company Secretary at TIHR. Born in the UK, Leslie experiences life as a Citizen of the World

More on Leslie: https://www.tavinstitute.org/staff/leslie-brissett/

In this episode, Liz Hall draws on her experience of editing 'Coaching at Work' journal to reflect on the state of coaching today. Liz shares how she believes coaching is thriving for two key reasons

First, the demand on managers increasingly means they need a reflective space, and support to help them navigate the emotional and relational people side of the work, and the intensity of work demands upon them. 

Second, Liz blurs the boundaries between coaching and therapy and believes that coaching provides important support to people who would not necessarily go to therapy. 

Liz shares her own practices of utilising mindfulness and somatics in her work, sharing how important this is in her own life, and how the bodywork is gaining increasing prominence in coaching more generally. Her initiative 'Coaching for Covid and Beyond' was established with colleagues and offered free coaching during the pandemic, and Liz shares her experience of this project.  Enjoy this exploration of coaching!

Bio

Liz Hall is a leadership coach and mindfulness teacher. An award-winning journalist, she’s the editor of Coaching at Work magazine, and the author of publications including Mindful Coaching (Kogan Page), Coach your team (Penguin Business), and author/editor of Coaching in times of crisis and transformation (Kogan Page), and numerous chapters in other books. As a co-founder of the award-winning Coaching through Covid and Beyond, offering pro-bono coaching to NHS workers impacted by the pandemic, she helped create a trail-blazing organizational culture shaped by compassion, relational mindfulness, psychological safety, agility and openness to emergence. The initiative is to be the subject of a study by a leading university exploring coaching in crisis. Through Coaching at Work, Liz has launched initiatives including the pioneering Roundtable towards Race Equity in the Coaching Profession which has seen professional coaching bodies agree to collaborate around a charter for change, and Climate Coaching Action Day, an annual event in March to celebrate and encourage climate coaching.

Liz is also a co-founder of the International Summit for Mindfulness and Compassion at Work and speaks regularly on mindfulness and coaching at conferences. She is a member of the Academy of Executive coaching’s faculty, teaching on mindfulness in coaching. She’s currently working on a book on relational mindfulness with Dr Emma Donaldson-Feilder.


Follow Liz

Website: https://lizhallcoaching.com
Coaching at Work Magazine: www.coaching-at-work.com
Coaching through Covid and Beyond www.coachingthroughcovid.org
Article on Coaching Through Covid Initiative: https://www.coaching-at-work.com/2021/03/01/covid-a-year-in-coaching/

Shermin Voshmgir is a leading thinker in the world of Web 3. This podcast explores the intersections between human dynamics and Web 3 developments. Shermin discusses the new possibilities of more democratic and decentralised ways of being and organising, and shares her growing concerns about how old politics, ego-driven behaviours, and simply the lack of awareness around potential dangers. There are tensions around transparency and privacy, algorithmic bias, and lack of participation in decentralised systems which leaves a few people making decisions. Power dynamics and biases become embedded in new DAOs and networks, making them difficult to influence and change. Shermin shares her new adventures in the domain of agriculture as she works with her partner to bring together Web 3 technologies, such as tokenization, that will support more sustainable farming. We are all entering the new world of Web 3, and Shermin Voshmgir is a brilliant translator who brings that space to life for those of us struggling to understand it - a must-listen episode! 

Bio 

Shermin is the author of the best-selling book “Token Economy“, the founder of Token Kitchen and BlockchainHub Berlin. In the past, she was the director of the Research Institute for Cryptoeconomics at the Vienna University of Economics which she also co-founded and a curator of the infamous project TheDAO back in 2016. She is currently setting up a data-driven farm in Portugal with her Partner where they investigate how to tokenize agricultural assets and sustainable ecosystem services such as soil quality or CO2 capture with the support of hardware wallets and sensor technology. Shermin studied Information Systems Management at the Vienna University of Economics and film-making in Madrid. Under her alter ego KAMIKAT.SE she has also created a series of audio-visual works. She is Austrian, with Iranian roots, and now lives in Portugal where she works on the intersection of technology, agriculture, art & social science.

Her biggest strength is to make complex issues easily understandable to a wide audience without losing the depth or scope of the issues she writes or talks about. Shermin has a long track record of public speaking about Blockchain, Cryptocurrencies, the Web3 and the future of technologies in general – from prestigious community conferences such as TedX, The Next Web or Re:publica, to private events for companies and institutions such as Vodafone, Audi, IMF and the Wordbank. She has a multidisciplinary perspective of how Web3 will impact different areas of society. She believes that Web3 and its tokenized applications can shift the dynamics of our socio-economic systems. Her focus is to make technology accessible to a non-tech audience so that all those who use technology can also take part in the decision-making process of the technology they use.

Buy Token Economy, Shermin's fantastic Web3 explainer: https://www.bookdepository.com/Token-Economy/9783982103853

Follow Shermin

Website: https://shermin.net
Twitter: https://twitter.com/sherminvo
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherminvoshmgir

Psychoanalysis and Humanising the Workplace
Gabriella Braun, a renowned consultant and author, delves into her fascinating journey, sharing her insights from her latest book, All that we are: Uncovering the Hidden Truths Behind Our Behaviour at Work. Gabriella discusses how psychoanalytic principles can provide deep insights into organizational dynamics and group behavior, influencing everything from leadership to team cohesion. Her emphasis on emotional awareness highlights its critical role in effective coaching, while she explores how vulnerability in professional environments can foster stronger connections and transform group interactions.
Gabriella underscores the importance of humanizing the workplace, particularly in the face of rapid digitalization and societal change. She reflects on the interplay between personal and professional boundaries, noting how understanding these elements can contribute to healthier organizations. Gabriella also touches on societal issues, emphasizing the need for sensitivity and awareness in addressing them within organizations.The discussion centers on the broader theme of living a balanced, meaningful life, where understanding human desire and behavior, curiosity, and playfulness contribute not just to workplace success but to a more connected, compassionate society.

Bio
Gabriella Braun is the Director of Working Well, a specialist consultancy firm using psychoanalytic and systemic thinking to help leaders and teams. She has consulted to hundreds of clients including British Library, RADA, Tate, NHS Trusts, Schools, Colleges, University of Cambridge and University of London. She holds a masters's degree in Consulting to Organisations: Psychoanalytic Approaches; and was a Principal Consultant with the Tavistock Consultancy Service. She was on on Associate Faculty of the Dynamics of Consulting Program (in US), and has directed and held staff roles in numerous experiential workshops about leadership and team dynamics in UK and abroad. 

Daniel Matalon is on a mission. Dan asserts that humanity’s biggest existential threat is not climate change, tribalism, or inequality but our inability to make agreements with each other at the level we require to address our challenges.  In this podcast Simon explores both the mission and what's behind it, making interesting connections to how the personal and the project come together.  The question "is there enough?" is like a yeast starter, once you ask the question it expands. Dan aims to meet everyday folk in a place where they can reflect on their identities and their worldviews, opening a space for new collaborations. Enjoy this podcast! 

Bio

Daniel Matalon is the founder of #IsThereEnough, a provocative new conversation about the intersection of survival economics and social justice. He is also the co-founder of Impact Launchpad, a UK-based venture studio for social impact incubation and development. His upcoming title, The First Agreement, is a historical and future-leaning look at economics, scarcity, and survival, that suggests that our drivers of incentive can be measurably built around human beings at the center of our economies, rather than the assets and resources we measure them by today.

Visit Dan's website: https://www.isthereenough.org

Giles Hutchins shares his work and thinks about how to lead organizations following nature's flow rather than using nature as an external resource.  Since the industrial revolution, we have been an extractive society, taking from the environment, without understanding or considering our interconnectivity and interdependence with the environment.  We are now paying heavily for this way of thinking, and Giles works in organizations to change worldviews and create regenerative leadership. He calls for a shift from the machine mindset to a living-systems mindset; from a world that is made of separate parts, to a world that is interconnected and interdependent.  If you want to be part of creating more humane and sustainable workplaces, this is an important podcast to listen to! 
Bio

Giles is a pioneering practitioner, keynote speaker and executive coach at the fore-front of this necessary revolution. He applies advanced consciousness raising techniques, deep-dive nature immersions, embodiment work, ancient wisdom tradition insights, and cutting edge research on leadership consciousness.  Giles has over 20 years business experience in helping all shapes and sizes of organisations transform.  Formerly, over a decade as management consultant, programme manager and business practice lead at KPMG, and more recently Global Head of Sustainability for the global technology provider Atos.  He is currently Chairman of the Future Fit Leadership Academy, Lead Partner of The Natural Business Partnership, co-founder of Biomimicry for Creative Innovation, co-founder of Regenerators.co and partner/associate with a number of pioneering organisations, such as The Global Leaders Academy and The Laszlo New Paradigm

Hetty explores how transpersonal coaching takes us ‘beyond the person’ and into the wider ecosystems in which we live and work, including the spiritual realm. Hetty and Simon share their own faith journeys that have shaped how they engage with this work. They discuss how spirituality is either ignored in the workplace because it is not relevant to a high-performance ‘modern’ work culture and belongs in the private realm, or how it can be instrumentalised i.e. take this mindfulness course and your productivity will increase by 30% (which immediately turns a transpersonal opportunity into a secular, goal-focused activity.

To work with a transpersonal frame is therefore challenging yet Hetty claims they are vitally important. She describes how this work needs to be embodied and how her yoga practice has helped her with this over the years. Hetty also shares how women’s experiences have been marginalised, and the part they play in developing a transpersonal frame. We are facing very challenging times, and the answers will not come from more of the same. It is only by de-centering the human and recovering a sense of belonging to the whole that will bring hope and change to our current state of being. Hetty believes that focusing on the transpersonal is an essential part of this journey.

Bio

Hetty brings 25 years of psychology and executive coaching experience to global leadership development. A best-selling author, her career has spanned the arts, journalism, media, health, and policy development in the private, public and voluntary sectors. She designs and delivers leader-coach and global culture change programs. Key focuses are women’s leadership, Transpersonal Coaching, and the regenerative contributions approach. She works ecosystemically and holistically founded on transpersonal psychology and informed by psychoanalysis and embodiment approaches. She teaches at the Irish Management Institute, is a Senior Associate Director with Common Purpose, and she coaches, teaches, and facilitates in French. Hetty is Director of Publications Strategy for the Association for Coaching and Executive Editor of the AC global magazine, Coaching Perspectives, now a leading publication in the field. Hetty holds a Masters in Psychoanalytic and Systemic Approaches to Organisational Consulting from the Tavistock Centre (UEL), a Certificate in Coaching Supervision from Oxford Brookes, a Masters in History of Art from the Courtauld Institute (UL), and a BA in languages from Cambridge University. She is married with two millennial daughters.

Recent publications: The Future of Coaching: Vision, Leadership and Responsibility in a Transforming World published by Routledge. Her long-form essay on Radical hope: a dimension of the soul rooted will be
published in the Autumn by PCCS Books in the collection of essays, Holding the Hope: Essays exploring psychological and spiritual responses and practices to climate change and extreme biodiversity loss.


For more information on Transpersonal Coaching programmes
For more information on Ecosystems Supervision programmes with Martin Vogel
Contact: einzig@hettyeinzig.co.uk
http://www.hettyeinzig.com

Our guest this week is Dr Eliat Aram, CEO of The Tavistock Institute of Human Relations (TIHR). 
Dr Eliat Aram has been the CEO of TIHR for over 13 years. The TIHR, a not-for-profit outfit operating in the UK and abroad is celebrating its 75th anniversary in 2022 and is a world-leading research, evaluation, consultancy, and professional development organisation. Believing in the abundant potential of human relationships and love for people are the drivers in the way she shapes the direction of the institute, the multitude of its activities as well as her praxis.  
TIHR was established in 1947, dedicated to the study of human relations for the bettering of working life. Eliat discusses some of the TIHR developments over the years and shares new directions they are pioneering, particularly in the areas of how aesthetics, art, and place inform our working lives today.    
TIHR developed many experiential learning methodologies, drawing on systemic thinking, anthropology, psychoanalysis, and other social sciences, the most well-known are the Group Relations Conferences. Eliat reflects on the importance of this innovative learning methodology and its continued relevance in today's disruptive world. This podcast will be of great interest to all of us indebted to the Tavistock Institute and its positive influence on work, organisations, and society. 
Bio
Dr Eliat Aram is a Chartered Scientist Psychologist (BPS), a UKCP registered Gestalt Psychotherapist, and has been one of the pioneering members of the CMC (Complexity & Management Centre) of Hertfordshire University. Her theoretical grounding is in complexity theory, organisational studies, Gestalt psychotherapy theory, and systems psychodynamics. She is a keen practitioner of Group Relations, the Tavistock enterprise’s core ‘learning through experience’ practice. She has directed many Group Relations Conferences internationally including the Tavistock Institute’s flagship GRC known as the ‘Leicester’ conference. She has been one of the two directors of the TIHR’s certified courses Coaching for Leadership and Professional Development (2014-2017) and co-founder of the Supervision for Coaching and Consultancy course, now in its seventh cohort. She has contributed to all TIHR Professional Development activities and program design. Someone told her recently that perhaps work-life balance is found when one finds their love at, and for, work and life. Working with the dynamic of shame as an integral part of any potentially transformative learning process has been her quest and the tenet of her evolving thinking over the decades of her practice. Someone told her recently that perhaps work-life balance is found when one finds their love at, and for, work and life. She unashamedly thinks this might just be so. 

Susan Long has studied and practiced working with the unconscious for many years. She brings fresh thinking to help us understand the unconscious in its many forms.

Susan discusses the pre-Freudian unconscious drawing on the romantic philosopher Friedrich Schelling’s work who thought of the unconscious as a source of creativity.

Susan reflects on the ‘repressed unconscious’ of Freud, and how he developed a treatment method (psychoanalysis) based on using free association to access the unconscious. Freud also pioneered group psychology, and Susan explores the group unconscious and how this manifests in society today. 

The 'associative unconscious' is a more contemporary exploration of the unconscious and Susan shares how we might draw on it to discover individual and group thoughts that are not yet accessed, what Christopher Bollas called the 'unthought known'. 

Simon shares his experiences of using a 'free-association matrix' method in a work setting

The conversation finishes by exploring a new wave of thinking about the unconscious, such as neuro-scientific insights and a more generative eco-unconscious, taking the unconscious beyond the human mind. This is a fascinating discussion, enjoy!

Bio

Susan Long is a Melbourne based organisational consultant and executive coach. Previously Professor of Creative and Sustainable Organisation at RMIT University, she is now a Professor and Director of Research and Scholarship at the National Institute for Organisation Dynamics Australia (NIODA) and a coach and consultant in private practice. Susan has been in a leadership position in many professional organisations and has published ten books and many articles in books and scholarly journals, is General Editor of the journal Socioanalysis and an Associate Editor with Organisational and Social Dynamics. Susan is a distinguished member of ISPSO.

Simon Western is the host of Edgy Ideas Podcast, founder of the Eco-Leadership Institute www.ecoleadershipinstitute.org, and CEO of Analytic-Network Coaching- an advanced coach training company. He is the author of internationally acclaimed leadership and coaching books, and blogs on wider social-political issues. Previously a past president of ISPSO,  a family psychotherapist, general and psychiatric nurse, and a factory worker.  Simon works with senior leaders in global companies as a leadership consultant with the aim of delivering new eco-leadership cultures that support system-change, and to coach ‘leaders to act in good faith to create the good society’.

In this episode, Simon Western is joined by organisational consultant, certified Analytic Network coach, and Emerita Professor of Psychoanalysis and Culture Caroline Bainbridge to reflect on what is happening in Ukraine, drawing on psychosocial thinking. Their aim is not to provide answers but to stimulate thinking and insights.
This horrific, shocking, and unnecessary war is about the Putin regime deepening its own power base, and imagining themselves as Tsarist heroes ‘making Russia great again’ to borrow from their ‘Trumpist’ friends.
At the heart of this project is repression; the war can be thought of as a ‘return of the repressed'.
Fukuyama proclaimed the End of History when the Soviet Union collapsed, and many swallowed the kool-aid and repressed the clear signs that totalitarianism was returning within China and Russia, while authoritarianism was resurfacing through populist and nationalist politics in the west.
The war can also be thought-about as part of the Putin regime's desire to impose a new repressive regime across the old Soviet empire.
Simon and Caro reflect on these and other thoughts, hoping to create thinking space for those listening to engage in their own reflections, in order not to fall into the traps of repression.           Bios

Simon Western is the host of Edgy Ideas Podcast, founder of the Eco-Leadership Institute www.ecoleadershipinstitute.org, and CEO of Analytic-Network Coaching- an advanced coach training company. He is the author of internationally acclaimed leadership and coaching books, and blogs on wider social-political issues. Previously a past president of ISPSO,  a family psychotherapist, general and psychiatric nurse, and a factory worker.  Simon works with senior leaders in global companies as a leadership consultant with the aim of delivering new eco-leadership cultures that support system-change, and to coach ‘leaders to act in good faith to create the good society’.
Caroline Bainbridge is an organizational consultant, accredited Analytic-Network coach, and Emerita Professor of Psychoanalysis and Culture. She specializes in inclusion-focused leadership work and organizational change, and executive coaching that centers on complex experience. After more than 25 years as a university lecturer, published writer, and researcher, Caroline has been recognized as Emerita Professor of Culture and Psychoanalysis. She is fascinated with how our networked and mediated milieu shapes experience and behavior. Caroline trained at the Tavistock in London and at the Eco-Leadership Institute. Find out more here. 

In this podcast Dr Vamik Volkan shares his fascinating personal journey, and some of the theories that have gained him an international recognition.   Born in 1932, Vamik a Turkish Cypriot lived in Cyprus under British rule, with the second world war and Nazi’s in the shadows as he grew up.  His journey took him to study medicine in Turkey, and psychiatry and psychoanalysis in the USA.  Experiencing the loss of a dear friend through a Greek terrorist attack back in Cyprus, Vamik in the USA found himself separated from mourning his friend. He went on to study mourning and later trauma, drawing also on his experiences of racism in the USA during the 1950s/60s.  His insights led him to work with traumatised countries and nations/peoples in conflict.  He has met and worked with former President Jimmy Carter, Mikhail Gorbachov, Desmond Tutu and Yasser Arafat.  Vamik shares some of his key ideas,  such as how large group identities form around ‘chosen trauma’s’ and ‘chosen glories’ and how these are mobilised by leaders. Vamik shows how leaders personal experiences are played out in large group dynamics, and he addresses what drives Vladimir Putin and reflects on the current the war Ukraine. 
We will be hosting a Clubhouse Discussion Friday 4th 6pm GMT on this podcast content click link to join - a recording of the discussion will be available 

Bio
Dr Vamık Volkan is an Emeritus Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Virginia: Emeritus President of the International Dialogue Initiative, he holds Professorships across the world and has many other honorary positions.  Dr. Volkan was a member of the International Negotiation Network under the directorship of former President Jimmy Carter.  His work on trauma and understanding large groups is internationally renowned and he has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize five times

Dr. Volkan is the author, coauthor of psychoanalytic and psychopolitical books. His book, Large-Group psychology: Racism, Societal Divisions, Narcissistic Leaders and Who We Are Now, received the Gradiva 2021 Best Book Award.

Father David McCallum is at the heart of a very interesting change process taking place in the Catholic Church.  Pope Francis has called for a 2 year process to advance a synodal church.  David discusses how a synodal church embraces leadership from the edges, engaging the laity and being less hierarchical and clerical in its approach.   Simon and David share thoughts on how this process might happen, and how synodal leadership symbolises how the Catholic church is responding to our disruptive age.  Inspired by early church practices of discernment, accompaniment and spiritual friendship, David is working with others to develop new ways of organising, leading and being in this emergent space that is opening.  Enjoy this podcast! 
Bio  Father David McCallum, S.J., Ed.D is a Jesuit priest and leadership educator. He serves as the founding Executive Director of the Program for Discerning Leadership. The Program provides leadership formation for senior Vatican officials and major superiors of religious orders in Rome, Italy, as well as internationally. 
Born in Buffalo, NY (1968), and raised in Rochester, Fr. McCallum is a proud Upstate New Yorker.  He serves as a facilitator for mission driven, personal and organizational development programs, provides developmentally informed executive coaching, and delivers leadership development programs and spiritual retreats internationally. He co-founded the Contemplative Leaders in Action program (CLA), an initiative of the Office for Ignatian Spirituality (USA East Coast Province)
Currently, Fr. McCallum lives in Rome and serves as a member of the Secretariat for the Synod of Bishops Commission on Methodology, supporting the Synodal process initiative by Pope Francis. 

Danny is a leading practitioner working with elite athletes. In this podcast he shares his reflections on working at a leading premiership football club in the UK. Drawing on his experiences of studying at the Tavistock clinic, Danny discusses the leadership and power dynamics at play in these soccer clubs.  He applies Menzies-Lyth theory of social defences against anxiety to his experience, observing how the obsessive focus on diet and nutrition are a social defence against the anxiety of poor performance. Whilst diet is clearly important, the excess of the practices tell a different story. 

Simon and Danny discuss the 'happiness imperative', how highly paid footballers feel obliged to be upbeat - 'how can you not be happy, with the wealth and glamour'  yet this represses the shadow side of their lives, and the anxieties and struggles they face.  Discussing mental health issues is not encouraged as they need to be 'at the top of their game' to be selected and successful.   Danny ends by discussing his life-long practice of meditation, and how this helps him in his work, and how he uses an embodied approach to help athletes engage more holistically with their bodies, rather than 'stay in their minds'. I hope you enjoy this fascinating podcast. 
BIO Danny Donachie works with World class athletes and leaders to improve performance through greater presence. He has held several leadership positions in elite sports, most recently working with a leading premiership soccer club in the UK.  Danny brings his lifelong practice of meditation from Eastern traditions, alongside a more psychologically informed approach to his work. Through Embodyism he consults with high performing individuals and groups.

Ian Parker is a practising psychoanalyst, an academic and a revolutionary activist.  Ian discusses the radical roots of psychoanalysis and how these have changed overtime, to make psychoanalysis fit with contemporary capitalist society.   Ian believes that psychoanalysis should be a radical practice than impacts on individuals and society, rather than an elite practice that adapts individuals to conform to social norms. He writes “Our task is to connect social struggle with the kind of unavoidable internal struggle described by psychoanalytic theory.”  Ian challenges the standard idea of the unconscious being like an ice-berg where beneath our conscious surface lies a dark abyss of uncivilised, biological and instinctual drives.   He works with a Lacanian approach that addresses the unconscious as a social and external phenomena, one that we individually relate to.  He is critical of  the ‘Psy’ professions such as psychology and psychotherapy as being instrumental to keeping things as they are, rather than offering a past to individual and social transformation.   Ian is working towards developing a psychoanalytic practice that has a liberation ethic  Enjoy listening to this fascinating and edgy podcast! 
BIO   Ian Parker is a psychoanalyst and a member of the new revolutionary organisation Anti-Capitalist Resistance, and of the Fourth International. His academic work has always been critical of psychology and psychiatry. His most recent book, co-authored with his Mexican comrade David Pavón-Cuéllar, is Psychoanalysis and Revolution: Critical Psychology for Liberation Movements  https://psychoanalysisrevolution.com/.   Ian is Emeritus Professor at Leicester University and his academic writing is widely published and cited. 

Kate Moger is the Global Director of Pledge for Change, an NGO representing a mutual commitment towards building a stronger aid ecosystem based on the principles of solidarity, humility, self-determination and equality. Kate shares her journey in the humanitarian sector and her vision for transforming it. With over two decades of experience in various leadership roles, Kate reflects on how she entered the field somewhat accidentally and how her perspective has evolved over time.

Kate discusses the changing landscape of humanitarian work, from her early days as part of the "last of the salvationists" to her current role in driving radical change. She candidly shares her experiences in South Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, highlighting both the challenges and profound connections she found in these contexts.

The conversation delves into the complexities of power dynamics, feminism, and decolonizing aid. Kate emphasizes the importance of intersectionality and understanding power imbalances in her approach to feminism and humanitarian work. She explains the origins and goals of Pledge for Change, an initiative aimed at transforming the humanitarian sector through equitable partnerships, authentic storytelling, and influencing wider change.

Kate and Simon explore the tensions within the humanitarian system, questioning whether reform is possible or if a complete dismantling is necessary. They discuss the importance of nurturing emergent systems and leadership at the edges, while acknowledging the geopolitical complexities surrounding humanitarian work.

The podcast concludes with Kate's reflections on what it means to live a good life and create a good society, drawing on the concept of Ubuntu and the importance of speaking truth to power with kindness. This conversation offers a thought-provoking look at the challenges and opportunities in reimagining humanitarian work for a more equitable future.

Olya Khaleelee shares her experiences and thoughts on 'OPUS, An organisation promoting the understanding of society'.  OPUS aims to develop a deeper understanding of conscious and unconscious organisational and social dynamics; and to promote reflective citizenship – using this understanding to act authoritatively and responsibly as members of society and organisations within society.  Olya shares some of the OPUS early work in the prison sector and workplace settings, and the development and importance of 'listening posts'.  Olya and Simon discuss the worrying authoritarianism growing in society, and how more than ever reflective citizenship is needed alongside spaces to help citizens take up their agency and authority in society.  Enjoy the listen! 
Olya Khaleelee is a corporate psychologist and organisational consul­tant with a particular interest in leadership, and organisational transi­tion and transformation. She was director of OPUS: an Organisation for Promoting Understanding of Society from 1980–1994, is a profes­sional partner of the Tavistock Institute and was the first female director of the Leicester Conference on the theme of Authority Leadership and Organisation. She has published extensively in the areas of leadership and system psychodynamics in organisations, and beyond, into society

Stanley Gold is concerned with racism, and in his recent book, ‘Unthinkable Evil-Understanding Racism’ he makes the claim that we talk about racism, but not about the cause of racism, because to do so is unthinkable. He takes this phrase from politicians who talk about the ‘unthinkable evil’ when confronted with a racist or terrorist incidents.   Stanley shares his edgy idea that racism is caused by neuro-biological and infantile changes in brain structure. Simon challenges this idea as the sole cause of racism. He believes that whilst racism, authoritarianism, sexism, homophobia, and other forms of scapegoating can be linked to rigid forms of thinking, anxiety states and perhaps even neuro-biological wiring, it cannot be divorced from social causation. This social causation is the space which can be worked on to mitigate and reduce how anxieties and individual/collective troubled mindsets act out on the stage of life.  Simon agrees with Stan that we all have the potential to be racist and authoritarian, and some more than others.  Stan believes it is important to face this ‘unthinkable truth’, that racism is caused by infantile and neuro-biological factors.  Simon claims our task is to work on the social areas – economic, social equity, education, institutional containment etc, that can reduce the potential of racism being manifested, and utilised by populist and nationalist politicians and other sub-groups.  Stan thinks Simon avoids the unthinkable issue, Simon thinks Stan misses the important point that whatever the underlying cause of human behaviour, it is what happens in the social sphere that exacerbates, exploits, the worst of human behaviour or mitigates against it.  They both agree that being able to talk openly about differences, and to think about the unthinkable is vitally important today when so many conversations are shut down or cancelled. Enjoy this lively discussion! 

 BIO
Stan Gold graduated in Medicine in Melbourne Australia and subsequently Guys Hospital London in Adult and Child Psychiatry where he became the inaugural Research Fellow. studying childhood Psychosis. Returning to Australia as research fellow to the inaugural department of Psychiatry , he was also consultant Psychiatrist at Prince Henry’s Hospital.. He  subsequently trained in Psychoanalysis, becoming a training Analyst of the Australian Society and chair of the Centre for Psychodynamic studies Monash University. Returning to London and a position at the Cassell Hospital, he broadened his interests to groups and organisations and became a board member and later, President of ISPSO. More recently he has been appointed as member of the Mental Health Tribunal in his state. He has written over 40 papers ranging from clinical and research studies in childhood to Psychodynamic aspects of Organisational life. He has written two books, “How to Bring up your Parents” and last October, "Unthinkable Evil: Understanding Racism”.

Josephine is Australia’s first out Transgender priest and on this podcast, shares her experiences, and why she believes that trans people can help to shine a light into the world.   Simon and Josephine reflect on why transphobia occurs, and how trans, queer and non-binary ways of being create anxieties for those who fear transition in their own lives.  Josephine believes that trans liberation is not just about emancipating transgender people, but it offers a vision of a beautiful world, where diversity flourishes.  Josephine shares how being transgender doesn’t take away the gender identities of male and female, it expands the limitations of the binary and adds new possibilities.   Discussing being in the church, Josephine embraces a theology that embraces mystery, a Christianity that is based on love and a church that embraces transitioning in this life and beyond. 
BIO
Josephine McDonnell Inkpin is the first openly and fully recognised transgender Anglican priest in Australia, now currently working as Minister of Pitt Street Uniting Church in Sydney.   Originally from England, where she studied at Oxford and Durham, she is a feminist church historian and theologian who has taught in various university settings over many years, as well as in a variety of ministry settings, typically ‘on the edge’.  Chair of Equal Voices, a peak Australian network of LGBTIQ+ Christians and allies, Jo has also been a prominent leader in Australian inter-faith, multicultural, First Nations Reconciliation, and other justice activities over many years. A former officer of the National Council of Churches in Australia and General Secretary of the NSW Ecumenical Council, and later described as a ‘Dangerous Woman of Queensland’, she was highlighted by Deloittes as one of the 2020 Out50 Outstanding LGBTI Leaders in Australia.

Dr Mishel McMahon, a Yorta Yorta First Nations woman from Australia, draws from 60,000 years of Aboriginal cultural experience to discuss what she terms ‘Relational Ontology’ - ontology meaning how we understand reality, what’s real and what’s not real.   She says “Relational ontology is a view of reality that all entities; plants, animals, elements, seasons, skies, waterways, the land, the spirit world and humans are in relationship, like a web. First Nations peoples and many other groups around the globe have held relational worldviews for thousands of years”.  The relational worldview contrasts with the European/Westernised mindset which places humans at the centre of knowledge creation.  Mishel discusses the importance of equality between all things, and how country, community and Ancestral knowledge are all infused and animated with spirit.  This rich discussion raises many questions and hopefully inspires us to see the world, and to live in it differently.  

BIO 
Mishel McMahon is a proud Yorta Yorta woman, she grew up in a large family in the Murray river region of Victoria, Australia. Mishel completed her undergraduate degree of Bachelor of Human Services and Honours in Social Work in 2012 at La Trobe. Mishel has worked at various First Nations organisations, including Indigenous Academic Enrichment Advisor at La Trobe organising Sorry Day and NAIDOC events. Mishel began her PhD, undertaking research that revealed principles of First Nations childrearing, using methodology informed from a relational worldview, and Yorta Yorta language. Mishel recently won Premier's Research Awards for Aboriginal Research 2019, Fellowship for Indigenous Leadership 2019 and recently worked as Social Work lecturer at Shepparton La Trobe, campus. Mishel is in the last stages of developing a First Nations Health & Wellbeing mobile app, and shorts films from her Fellowship. Currently Mishel is Victorian Aboriginal Research Accord Co-ordinator at VACCHO and lives in Elmore, Victoria on the Campaspe river.